math-and-meta

[hardy skiff]

I meant more that you can't "run out" of coal or uranium to poop out more power numbers

but you CAN run out of space to place objects, technically speaking.

could you imagine, finite resource nodes

[wind spade]

you can run out of coal or uranium actually

[hardy skiff]

game over

[wind spade]

and before you run out of space, you'll run out of entity limit, so space is not a conern

power is though, as you're limited in how much per minute you can extract

[hardy skiff]

hopefully the entity limit isn't too low

I wholly intend to max out the game map with production

[wind spade]

something like 2 mil

but some entities count as more than 1

[hardy skiff]

that's pretty low, all things considered

[wind spade]

it's low if you pave the whole world with foundations

[hardy skiff]

if items on conveyors are entities that count towards that limit, it's easy to exceed

one layer of foundations across the entire map would be about 1.7 million entities

unacceptable, limit needs to be increased 20fold

actually it's about 890k, horrific miscalculation

so we could fit 2 layers of platforms across the entire map

sounds like a challenge

[wind spade]

you can't even fill the map with one layer

[hardy skiff]

you can

the functional play area is 938 platforms per side

[wind spade]

foundations don't count as 1 entity

[hardy skiff]

...wot

[wind spade]

several people tried to lay them down and got to the limit

[hardy skiff]

they are a static, unmoving object

though I guess textures, collision meshes, etc might be considered separate

there's probably some technojanky way to override the limit in Unreal but that might be hyper-unstable

[wind spade]

snap points count towards the entity limit iirc

[hardy skiff]

oh god there's so many of those

...i wonder if kibitz is going to hit the limit in his series and be mega sad

[wind spade]

though they've done some optimizations about the UE limit so who knows

[hardy skiff]

could probably do some lazy loading stuff, though that would cause distant structures to be invisible

and half the fun of this game is standing on a plateau somewhere and seeing your giant facility pierce the fog

hmm... i wonder if there's a copy/paste mod

i find myself building the same thing over and over, would be nice to just vomit it into existence

[old fog]

Yeah, there is.

Area actions.

[bleak venture]

I dont understand area action when I want to fill out an area with a layer of foundations...

[old fog]

No?

Just mark with the markers.

[tidal ledge]

wait static ores in the ground have a limit

[wind spade]

nodes don't have a limit on how many ore you can mine

[tidal ledge]

o alright (replied in the wrong channel)

[shell trench]

I'm loving how my mining towers are looking

[silver raft]

Anyone have tips for moving resources to a mall without having a train with 50 cars and a bunch of huge train stations loading individual components? Cause that's the best thing I've came up with

Or know of a good resource, I haven't really been able to find much

[wind spade]

smaller trains and multiple train stations

[silver raft]

And just share a few dropoff stations and dump excess to sink or something?

[wind spade]

if you really want to, but I'd recommend separate platform for each item

[glacial hemlock]

Just never mix item for each freight platform and each freight car.

[silver raft]

I tried to figure out all items that are used for building stuff and I counted 26, does that seem right?

[wind spade]

depends on what stuff is 😉

[silver raft]

Any item that is the "best" of itself, so no mk1 belts or anything, but constructors and storage etc

oh yeah I meant like player built "stuff" lol

[glacial hemlock]

You should have at least 31 items in the mall, 24 of them are Construction material

[silver raft]

What do you keep other than construction material?

[drowsy flicker]

Ammunition

[eager geyser]

quick question y'all, is it better to use the iron ore water alt recipe for iron ingots with refinery or to use the normal recipe? it obviously makes more but just wondering if its worth the effort of having the piping and pumps down for producing the stuff

[drowsy flicker]

I only do it if water is nearby and not inconvenient to pipe, personally.

My definition of nearby is about 400m away

If you're doing it all in one central facility it should be worth piping the water in, if that's what you do

[eager geyser]

ah okay, well the dune desert does have water not too too far away but id have to set up some piping the water from the place over the big hill and stuff

ill probably end up doing that then now im thinking about it saying ill probably be using the base as a location for oil stuff when i get to it too

[glacial hemlock]

Refinery recipes are necessary for end game megabase

You can just build on the sea for simplicity

[eager geyser]

i mean i got the room im gonna put it in my base then make as many water extractors as i can to bring stuff back in, ill probably need it for other stuff anyway so its worth the effort

[glacial hemlock]

They use huge amount of water though..

[wind spade]

not like water is limited or something 🤔

[drowsy flicker]

So a system where you transport the ore to the water (instead of the other way around) may be ideal.

[glacial hemlock]

Yeah, i see you put some arbitrary figure for the water limit at your site. Just wonder how is it calculated

[wind spade]

it's maximal possible number in javascript that can be safely calculated with

[glacial hemlock]

@drowsy flicker like, bring horse to the water.

@wind spade i see

[wind spade]

basically just a random really high number

[eager geyser]

so it is just worth bringing my ore back to water?

[wind spade]

I'm going to replace this with "infinity" checkbox

[glacial hemlock]

@eager geyser use trains can be easy. Tens of belts of ores

[eager geyser]

because the recipe only calls for 20water min no? to me that doesnt seem like much water right now but to be honest outside of coal right now ive not used it

[glacial hemlock]

Btw, only build those when you are tier 7 ++

[eager geyser]

yeah probably, im going to need trains anyway to pick up ingots and stuff made across the map so

why so?

[glacial hemlock]

The cost of power and even the construction material can be quite straining for a tier5 base.

[eager geyser]

ah

i mean other than computer production im not starved for power or resources rn

but still

[ivory lion]

for 8 coal generators with 3 water extractors, and 2 pumps, is 28.2MW consumption sound about right?

oh now i'm down to 8.3 MW... hm

ah nm we're good! coal power woohoo no more biofuel!

[glacial hemlock]

If you consume less power, the coal generator consumes less resources. Which in turn, also lowers its own power consumption for coal miners and water extractors

[quick trout]

Anyone have a setup that is as efficient as possible for modular frames?

If so dming me a picture would be great!

[shell trench]

Feedback on my mining tower?

This is on one node by the way, with conveyor lifts on alternating glass sides on the main building

(right side isn't finished)

[glacial hemlock]

Not sure what is the purpose of the tower, as you only need 1 single building for mining a node.

[shell trench]

Yeah, it's supposed to be fancy looking

The left is stairs, because when I try to build a stairwell on the right building, it encroaches with the miner

[warm summit]

Looks pretty slick. Does it have the beltwork and power done up yet/

[glacial hemlock]

I can see the belt lift, can't see the cable though...

[stuck ether]

ok

[wind spade]

on the left, there's "Items, input"

[stuck ether]

what is that, that looks nothing like what i have on my screen

[wind spade]

what do you have?

[stuck ether]

oooh i must clicked the wrong ling i was taken to https://satisfactory-calculator.com/ your link i have never seen before 😮

[wind spade]

it's pretty new (like a week or so), but I've been working on it for a long time and there was also older version for update 2

[stuck ether]

wow that worked really well thanks

[wind spade]

np 🙂

[harsh atlas]

Is there a way to input items like plastic, so it don't show me the production chain for plastic or other chains? @wind spade

[wind spade]

not yet, working on it

[dawn lark]

@wind spade could you maybe add an option for the planner to target a given number of assemblers instead of a unit/min? Like I wanna run one manufacturer at 100% eff making the alt version of oscillators.

I know I could just input the specific 1.36546753 or w/e per minute but would be a nice convenience option

[wind spade]

@dawn lark I can't, since there's multiple recipes and each recipe can have different output

[harsh atlas]

Thanks 👍

[dawn lark]

Hmm true, but at the time of generating the map don't you have to select one of the valid recipes? Whichever one that is could be the target, but yeah I understand the ambiguity.

Better question, could you give us more feedback when it says it can't generate a solution?

Recipe incompatibility or a lack of a given resource on that second tab

[wind spade]

you don't select one recipe tho. You select recipes that are available for you and the tool picks the best one

I wish I could give more feedback, but the algorithm behind it doesn't really allow me to do more feedback without some big code changes and even then it would be kinda limited. I'll think about something tho

[glacial hemlock]

Some optimization will involve a mixture of recipe to produce a type of item, mostly due to the map limit.

[dawn lark]

Yeah it was weird like I have cases where I target 30 turbo motors per min and it fails. But works fine at 24 per min with no other changes to recipes

[glacial hemlock]

Currently embetterer is one of the example

@dawn lark turbo motor is 155, default rate im sure is much lower

[wind spade]

usually you can figure out the max amount possible easily by switching to "maximize"

@glacial hemlock 156

[glacial hemlock]

I see, 156 o.o

[wind spade]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=r6Lsq5W4DW1k7aobUNf9

[dawn lark]

Yeah I know the map can easily support 30, but the tool failed to generate still

And it suddenly worked after lowering the number

[wind spade]

you can always share the production using the blue share button

and I'll take a look at it

[dawn lark]

Okay I'll keep that in mind next time I break it xD

[grand moon]

ummmm so i have 6 foundries making a total of 240 steel ingots per min, and i need to slpit that into 8 constructers how?

l

???????

[slender brook]

1 splitter going in to 2 splitters going into 4 going into 8

[grand moon]

?

can u explain further

[wind spade]

F  F  F  F  F  F
|  |  |  |  |  |
M--M--M--M--M--M
|
S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
C  C  C  C  C  C  C  C

@grand moon like this

[grand moon]

whats m?

[wind spade]

merger

[grand moon]

oh cool

[wind spade]

S = splitter, C = constructor, F = foundry

[grand moon]

thanks so much ! 🙂

[safe hawk]

Thats for boring ppl, do an under-over fed system, put the spliters above the mergers, run a lift from the merger line up and feed the constructors with lifts

[signal sky]

My only thought about those is don't you need a belt that can handle the total output of the foundries?
Or over the long term does that not matter

[safe hawk]

You do but you can just divide it in 2

And thats just mk2

Which you get early

Or divide it more and use undeclock for better ratios

[wind spade]

yeah if you only have mk2, just do two sets of 3->4

I assume if they have foundries, they have mk3

[safe hawk]

Oh wait yeah smelters are 30 output not 60

Yeah mk2 is all you need

[signal sky]

It was more of just a general question, not specific to 6 foundries

[wind spade]

sure, you always need a belt to handle the items 🙂 but you can also split it in multiple manifolds 🙂

[glacial hemlock]

@safe hawk foundries have width 9 but constructors have width 8, you will face issue.

But yeah, with smart spacing you can get around it.

[fierce ruin]

my first hard drive ever, what should I get?

they all seem bad lol

[stark bronze]

rod sounds good

you cant make rods in steel plants

although you wont need any rods near steel plants...

[safe hawk]

Either rod or sheet

Id take sheet since late game rods become kinda odsolete

Since screws dont use them anymore and modular frames have better recipes

I think rotors can still use em but you still have copper rottors and i belive steel rotors as well

[glacial hemlock]

@fierce ruin https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Hard_Drive#Alternate_recipe_analysis

[fierce ruin]

oh ty

thank you guys 🙂

[lone basin]

F  F  F  F  F  F
|  |  |  |  |  |
M--M--M--M--M--M
|
S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
C  C  C  C  C  C  C  C

@wind spade does Splitters like this splits equal or first one gets 1/2 2nd one 1/4 3rd one 1/8 etc

[wind spade]

Yeah, but the first one will fill up and overflow

[atomic drum]

I've been using containers to capture production from constructors/assemblers, and then I run around to each container (my RIP container, steel pipes container, quickwire container, etc.) and grab whatever I need to build. Is there a better/more sane way to think about setting up production lines like this?

I guess this is more of a production philosophy question. Is there an alternative to having a buffet of containers full of end products?

[polar sleet]

not really. as you progress you tend to still need items from earlier tiers. but by that point you organize things for mass production, and send a dedicated portion of each needed product to a central hub for easy access.

[glacial hemlock]

If you need buffers to check your production lines (other than item storage) then you may be building inefficiently.

[atomic drum]

Mine are at the end of the lines, not in them. The lines themselves are balanced for 100% efficiency

I could probably move more toward a central hub model, though

I have production bases focusing on different types of production throughout the map, depending on what the resource mix is

[frail swift]

I do what you do @atomic drum but with the knowledge that if the production was 100% efficient, the container wouldn't have anything in it. I always have to produce a couple percent more than is needed on the other side to see any stock build up in that container.

[fierce ruin]

72 coal plants - how much water do i need and whats the best layout

[muted crypt]

3240 water per minute, or 27 water extractors per minute at 100% clock speed

2.5 extractors at 100% can fill a pipe

so you'll have 10 full pipes and a pipe at 80% capacity

(assuming full draw)

@safe hawk https://pastebin.com/ULXeWyC3

Again, this is the method that only consumes 300 heavy oil residue per minute rather than the full 400, as it makes ratios easier to work with - the excess 100 HOR/min goes to making petroleum coke, which is dumped in the sink to prevent backlogging

I guess if you really wanted to, you could clock up one of the generators to 112% to take on the excess fuel

That would raise you up to 16679.8 MW of output, before counting for consumption of the plant itself

[safe hawk]

The math is right, also you could get more efficiency multiplying the setup another 2 times

So you basically get another full array of fuel gens from excess heavy

And you also won't care about power for the foreseeable future

[muted crypt]

If you have 900 crude/min coming in, then you can make use of an entire extra 300/min HOR processing and all of the steps that follow

but that's a lot of coal and sulfur...

[muted crypt]

@safe hawk https://pastebin.com/JDmEzCPD

This takes 900 crude/min coming in, has three sets of the portion of the plant processing crude into HOR and polymer resin, and then skips the petroleum coke step and contains four sets of everything after that point, i.e. starting with diluted packaged fuel and moving onward

Does my math still check out?

oh I forgot to take into account resource sink power consumption before

using t4 belts you can still handle all of the resin and coke in the original, so it'll just be +30 MW of consumption for the facility

wait no you can't

oop, so that'd two sinks needed

(idea is to keep this at t4 belts since they're the easiest to mass produce at my current state of the game

[junior nest]

So I'm pretty new and just got tier 4- if I have 120 steel ingots produces, how many should go in to steel beams and steel pipes, respectively

[fresh elm]

it's going to depend on what you need

[junior nest]

Idk what I need dawg, I'm not good

[fresh elm]

well, if you are going to be making a bunch of mk3 belts, I would suggest starting half and half, particularly since you're going to need a bunch of encased industrial beams before you can make them out of pipes

[junior nest]

So what's the ratio, or are you saying divert 60 ingots to each?

[muted crypt]

with 120 steel/min, a constructor can consume 60/min for beams and 30/min for pipes

so if you wanted, you could do something like two constructors for beams, one at 100% clock speed and one at 50% clock speed, and then a constructor for pipes at 100% clock speed

in total you'd be producing 22.5 beams/min and 20 pipes/min

If you need more pipes than beams, you can adjust accordingly.... take that constructor at 50% clock speed for beams and turn it into a 100% clock speed for pipes

make 15 beams/min and 40 pipes/min

as Klep said, it depends mainly on what you need

[frail swift]

Yeah when I was recently at that tier, beams were more in demand than pipes. I wish I had the game sense to make another constructor at 50%

And beam will continue to be needed in tier 5 and 6 as you build and grow

[muted crypt]

I'm at the point where I'm producing mostly pipes for my actual factory (steeled frame uses pipes, I'm also using encased industrial pipes recipe) and a few pipes and beams as output for when I set up train infrastructure

[karmic trellis]

My experience has been I've needed a lot of steel beams for mk3 belts. My factory has exploded since getting mk3 and before getting mk4.

[drowsy flicker]

Think I'm ready to graduate to tier 5 and 6 now. Its been fun, grasslands, thanks for letting me exploit your resources, time for the next frontier.

Should transition well into making Heavy Modulars and stuff, just gotta get to oil at a decent pace

And set up an actual, not biofuel-fueled coal plant.

[stark bronze]

After some simple math

Highest efficiency way to make iron products:
Reinforced plate:

Output 10 reinforced plate```
**Rotor**:
```Input 150 iron ore
Output 12 rotor
Byproduct 60 screws```
**Modular frame**:
```Input 270 iron ore
Output 4 modular frame
Byproduct 14 reinforced plate```

[wind spade]

@stark bronze correction: (using just iron + water, can be even more if used other resources as well):
120 iron + 68.57 water => 25.6 reinforced plates
150 iron + 85.71 water => 24.76 rotors (no byproduct)
270 iron + 154.29 water => 26.31 modular frames (no byproduct)

[stark bronze]

Thats a lot more with the help of water

Alternate recipe time

[red river]

i'm convinced water on that planet is actually mana, and refineries are actually run by magic

since water can seemingly be turned into just about anything

[stark bronze]

Wait
If we feed the iron plate into another modular frame set we only get 4 rein plates as byproduct

[wind spade]

you can use them as well

no need to have byproducts

[stark bronze]

Where else

Another 2 frames?

I hate very little byproducts
2 frames also have 3 rods byproduct, i decide to just let them clog

[wind spade]

just make them in the correct ratio

3 reinforced plates for each 12 rods

[stark bronze]

A perfect rein plate ratio gets you 10
And rod comes in 15

Im against underclocking

Maybe i should try it

[wind spade]

underclocking for the win

less power usage and more accurate production

or just don't overclock, but supply less materials

[stark bronze]

I think overclocking is the problem because you usually have to overclock the whole line

[wind spade]

you don't overclock, you build more factories

[stark bronze]

Well i need that extra reinforced plate

[wind spade]

yeah, so build another assembler

[stark bronze]

Maybe ill modify my base factory so it only makes plates
And let the frame factory make rotors

But the frame factory is far away from steel... That means long belts to make motors

I hate the map

[fresh elm]

it's not really as far away as it feels at first

[polar sleet]

yeah one has to let go of perfect ratio designs when you aim for best efficiency in this game. all the good recipes tend to use strange ratios that make this effectively impossible (essentially requiring underclocking and increasing the number of buildings per.) that added level of complexity is obliviously on purpose to challenge us when making high performance factories.

[red river]

I actually like slightly overfeeding each stage of my production, so i can siphon off the excess to storage

[polar sleet]

that isn't a bad thing. just makes logistics a bit more tricky. since you'd need more belts or more likely, more trains/cars

[red river]

i just run all the excess and final product on the same belt, and use smart splitters to sort it all at storage time

[polar sleet]

my oil rig has some excess hor from plastic rubber prodictiion, as well as excess fuel from my turbo power plants... i either have to sink it, or package it for player use (the latter requires me to put it into train to send to the main base)

and yeah for excess that gets sent all to one spot, mixing it into one belt does work.

you just need to make sure you have a sink at the storage to handle overflow

[red river]

of course

[polar sleet]

hence why the excess/byproduct method does work. but only if you want/need more of those parts. other wise it's probably better to figure out a design that doesn't create those byproducts and get's you more of what you do need

[red river]

technically, overfeeding a production line and allow the belts to jam is still okay, if the resource input is done with a smart splitter or similar

to only draw the necessary material and no more

rather, branch the extras somewhere else for use

[polar sleet]

for example i noticed that 9 foundries feed 35 constructers for steel pipe product, if i use the solid steel ingot recipe. layout wise, 10 foundries and 36 constructors occupy the same width if i stage them in a, 2 rows of F, 3 of C, pattern. and if i under clock the foundries to 90% i can produce the exact amount of ingots and subsequently pipes for that initial ratio (which also ratios well with the numbers 3 coal nodes provide)

so i wind up with a modular design that accurately uses up 1.5 pure mk2 coal nodes per a modual. and spits out pipes for that amount

and luckily 90% divides by 3, so it can underclock to met the amounts for 1 and 0.5 if i don't have 3 nodes worth

[zenith dawn]

does energy use scale linearly with underclocking?

[muted crypt]

No

[zenith dawn]

I'm wondering if I can save energy by underclocking all of my factory to like 10% but then also making my factory 10x bigg- aw man

[dull bolt]

Yes.

You can do that.

But if it's worth. I dunno 🙂

[muted crypt]

power consumption is calculated by the equation [base power consumption] * [clock speed / 100]^1.6

[zenith dawn]

oh wait i misread

extremely energy efficient factory which runs at 1% speed but is 100x bigger

[muted crypt]

This equation is why a manufacturer uses 1.38 MW at 10% clock speed, 55 MW at 100% clock speed, and 238.3 MW at 250% clock speed.

You could theoretically do that, yes

[zenith dawn]

make everything in batches of 100

[muted crypt]

You would be using 6.3% of the power of one machine at 100% if you did 100 of the same machine at 1%

[zenith dawn]

it sounds really stupid but being stupid is my MO

"how big of a factory can you run on one biofuel generator"

[muted crypt]

For something a bit less excessive.. try 10 machines at 10%

Using 25.1% of the power of one machine at 100% if you did 10 of the same machine at 10%

Still a significant power save, at the expense of far more space and far more resources

Imagine a single manufacturer making supercomputers at a rate of approximately 0.02 per minute lmao

Disgusting

Is the longest recipe duration the base recipe for oscillators?

If so, imagine waiting three hours and 20 minutes for two oscillators....

[zenith dawn]

correction, if you build a big enough factory

[muted crypt]

I'm talking single machine here

[zenith dawn]

you'll be waiting 3 hours 20 minutes for 200 oscillators

which'd all be made at the exact same time

[muted crypt]

right

So it would balance out, technically

[zenith dawn]

which is an extremely stupid way of doing things but I can dig it

[muted crypt]

100 manufacturers at 1% would in total be consuming 3.47 MW if I did my math right

Imagine building a factory that worked entirely off of the power provided from the two generators on your HUB

Constantly hand feeding lol

New challenge time, ez

[glacial hemlock]

Gg

[glacial hemlock]

The longest recipe is nuclear fuel unit iirc

1% clock speed means er, 500 minutes? 8.3 hours

[muted crypt]

hot

[lucid mirage]

So factorio had this philosophy of maintaining a long bus with critical components on it. That doesn't seem to be the case in this game. Is the best method to go from start to finish with the whole production line or to run a bus?

[muted crypt]

having a main bus similar to factorio is certainly a possibility

However applying it can be quite awkward

[lucid mirage]

Cool yeah, it's also easy to understand which components need to be on the line in factorio. I'm not sure what they'd be yet in this game as I'm still fairly new to it.

[glacial hemlock]

applying dedicated production lines for each group of machines simplifies the setup instead of intertwining everything on a common bus.

[lucid mirage]

Right, it feels like the recipes are far more varied in this game as well. I.E. not everything requires an iron plate

[glacial hemlock]

examples of NOT using bus.

[muted crypt]

big

[lucid mirage]

Woah nice

[muted crypt]

Is this a starter-ish factory for iron I take it

[glacial hemlock]

if you wish to build buses, take not a belt per item is definitely not enough. You will need tonnes of belts for low tier items like cable and wires. You can go with 1 belt for each high tier item. (like supercomputers)

@muted crypt yea, it is not a big setup

[lucid mirage]

Looks pretty big to me! I'm still very early game i guess ;P

[muted crypt]

How much iron per minute?

[indigo solstice]

doe s this work as a manifold as well?

[muted crypt]

Any combination of splitters and mergers can work as a manifold technically

[indigo solstice]

right, I'm just unsure because im not feeding a "line" of splitters, but stacking them ?

[muted crypt]

wdym

[indigo solstice]

i learned this as a manifold

so, one line with splitters

[muted crypt]

yes

In theory as long as you're providing enough of the resource for all of the machines, eventually your machines will all overflow and things will equal out

[indigo solstice]

alright sounds good 😄

[muted crypt]

the higher the complexity, obviously the slower it will happen

[indigo solstice]

sure

[empty hemlock]

Factorio style buses are kinda irrelevant in satis as we do not have fluctuating input, so purpose built sections are a lot more vaiable.

[indigo solstice]

is that referring to me or ..?

[muted crypt]

No, to a past convo

[indigo solstice]

ah right ok

just for reference, when you talk about a bus, is that like a conveyor with different items on it? so i know what all the people here are talking about 😄

[glacial hemlock]

@muted crypt the above setup uses 7 mk.3 belts of iron ore

[muted crypt]

What kind of belts

[glacial hemlock]

bus means parallel belts, each belt generally only carring 1 type of item

[muted crypt]

prob t5?

[empty hemlock]

a bus is a centralized distribution belt for the entire factory

[muted crypt]

or do you mean mk3 belts

[glacial hemlock]

lol, I should put mk.3 in front

[muted crypt]

Ahh

That's a lotta iron

[glacial hemlock]

currently i am at tier 7, i am producing 24.7 mk.5 belts of iron ingot

[indigo solstice]

@empty hemlock right, so what I'm doing with dedicated belts and manifolds is ok?

[empty hemlock]

if it works it's always ok ;)

[indigo solstice]

yeeah i realized when i typed it 😄

i mean like im not building myself into a corner with this, in principle

[south linden]

yop where can i get the desert map on google with all gisement pur/normal ect ? plz

plss boys hahah i just found basic map on google but not desert map owshit

[glacial hemlock]

there is only one map. The desert is located at the top right.

all 4 spawn points are on the same map.

[grizzled shoal]

Hey guys, anyone has a production diagram on how to make 533 compacted coal/minute?

[safe hawk]

21+1 32% assembles with 533 coal and sulphur /m

This can be divided differently depending on your converyor tier

[glacial hemlock]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production or this @grizzled shoal

[safe hawk]

Or that

That works too

[south linden]

so when i look maps, desert is on top right or left ?

por favor amigoss

[glacial hemlock]

https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Map there is a biome map in the page, it tells you all the location of all biomes

both are desert, top left is rocky desert (the easier one), top right is dune desert (the harder one)

[south linden]

oooooooooooooooooooh okeeyyy tyy boy

i think i've spawn on dune desert fckkk

but if i spawn on dune desert, in the same save can i go to rocky desert ?

or i need to creat a new party ?

[glacial hemlock]

you can, simply walk west 5km I think

and try not to die midway

[south linden]

lmfaoooo okeyy

[astral hornet]

Most efficient way to make turbofuel is use the diluted fuel recipe and then make it using the vanilla recipe with compacted coal, I'm guessing?

If my math is correct, with 300 oil you can make 750 turbofuel

[muted crypt]

at most 666.6667 turbofuel/min

Crude oil -> Heavy Oil Residue alt recipe -> Diluted Packaged Fuel alt recipe -> Turbofuel alt recipe

[astral hornet]

I thought you could turn 300 oil into 900 fuel? Or did I get that part of the math wrong?

[muted crypt]

800

[astral hornet]

ooh wait, 900 is rubber or plastic

[muted crypt]

300 * (4/3) = 400, heavy oil residue recipe

400 * (2/1) = 800, diluted packaged fuel recipe

800 * (5/6) = 666.667, turbofuel recipe

[astral hornet]

yeah

so thats 148 fuel gennies... okay... I can work with that 😂

[muted crypt]

A measly 22.2 GW of power

[astral hornet]

I need to upgrade my coal power before I move on to producing stuff for the last tier. Only just got computers automated.

[glacial hemlock]

That is a huge setup, be prepared.

[astral hornet]

Yeah, I won't build it all from the get go lol.

I'll be good with like a fourth of that

Kinda amazing that you can get that much power from a single oil node. And feels sorta busted. Anyway, time to hit the hay first.

[muted crypt]

I'm almost done setting up an updated coal power plant that I only need for a power buffer to start working on a turbofuel facility

[little heron]

i need to work out how pipes work

[wintry slate]

does anyone have a screenshot of there supoer satsufying base

[sand garnet]

#screenshots

[wintry slate]

ah i hadnt seen that channel+ thanks

[muted crypt]

did you mean: super satisfactory factory in Satisfactory

/s

[keen depot]

how many smelter can a miner mk2 support on a pure node?

[empty hemlock]

120 * 2 /30

[keen depot]

each?

holy shit

[knotty osprey]

20, if you overclock the mk2 miner to 250%

[muted crypt]

if the 120 * 2 / 30 was amazing to them the odds of them being at the point where they can support 600 items per minute on a node is slim

[keen depot]

sry at a location with 4 pure iron node next to each other.

[muted crypt]

I bet I know where you are

[knotty osprey]

there is also 2 pure copper, and 2 pure limestones in the same are, and down the path is a pure coal, and 2 pure quartz. It's kinda THE starting are these days

[muted crypt]

there's also plenty of oil nearby, there's caterium (two normals, one covered by a rock), a normal and an impure for sulfur...

and then a short distance across a river away you have four normal coals, a normal copper, a normal limestone and a pure iron 🤷‍♂️

[glacial hemlock]

lol, just say northern forest

[cursive sinew]

Gameroos

The organization phase 1

Starts now

[fierce ruin]

Yo guys are there any major building style changes?

I've been away for a year

Lmao

[wooden matrix]

somewhat

[muted crypt]

Well seeing as pipes and fluids now exist, some recipes were changed, and there are now a lot more cosmetic options for structure building... I'd say yes, there have been some changes @fierce ruin

[fierce ruin]

But like base theory?

Like nothing revolutionary has been devised

Is what I'm asking

[muted crypt]

define "revolutionary"

[stark bronze]

Train stations

[muted crypt]

the core process of getting from point A to point B for later game items is different

oil processing has been overhauled for a more complex petrochem assignment

[fierce ruin]

I played trains @stark bronze

[muted crypt]

I guess the oil processing is the big one

[fierce ruin]

What did they do

[muted crypt]

well, crude oil is a liquid

[fierce ruin]

Makes sense lol

[stark bronze]

I mean train station building style changed if thats what youre talking about

[muted crypt]

Let's assume we are making plastic

[fierce ruin]

@stark bronze wdym

[stark bronze]

Remodel

[muted crypt]

With the base recipe, we take crude oil and we get plastic and heavy oil residue

[fierce ruin]

Do they function differently or just look different

[muted crypt]

plastic obviously a solid product, and heavy oil residue is a liquid byproduct

Appearances only^^

[fierce ruin]

Ok tomorrow I'm going to make a coal plant. It's 3 water pumps to 8 coal generators ive heard right?

[muted crypt]

heavy oil residue can then either be turned into petroleum coke, which is used for aluminum processing later on, or turned into fuel for fuel generators

However, if you make too much heavy oil residue, then you're no longer making plastic, and vice versa

Because one ingredient makes two products

oh, also, power was overhauled for the early game

[fierce ruin]

Wish me luck on coming up with a clean design. Thx guys. If u wanna see a satisfactory veteran struggle with pipes u can watch me on twitch I'll be there lmao

[muted crypt]

The biomass burners on your HUB still produce 20 MW each, but the ones you build yourself produce 30 MW each

Additionally, coal generators now produce 75 MW instead of 50 MW

[fierce ruin]

Cool

Thx

[muted crypt]

Fuel generators, geothermal generators and nuclear reactors remained the same

[cedar mica]

Is modular frames the most valuable product, you can make from just iron?

[wooden matrix]

I mean smart plating only take iron and that's used for the space elevator

[pseudo ember]

Modular frame is 408 points. Smart plating is 520.

[cedar mica]

Good point, guess there is where my excess iron will go

Shame you cant automate equipment, 18 800 for Xeno-Basher

[wooden matrix]

You can with mods

[cedar mica]

And there is mods, that add multiple pure nods... Makes too much difference, when trying to use the map

[wooden matrix]

Just don't use that mod problem solved

I was only saying it was an option

[warm wren]

🤔 I dislike the maths on aluminium. Alt production (using coal instead of coke) is 90 solution per, but the production on the scrap is 80 per. Leaves me with 3x solution production to make 240 since my limit is 300, but that's 2.6666~ on the scrap production, I'd be okay with setting one machine to 66%, but two machines produce the other 60 water I need to cycle back to the solution production. Leaves me with that 66% machine producing water and needing something to do with it. I could cycle it back to the solution as well, but it's not an even number, 19.8 I think. Produce too much water and the scrap production falls behind, even if slightly, too little and solution falls behind.

[wooden matrix]

Yeah very annoying

[warm wren]

If I ran the solution produces at 75% that should produce 60, then 60*3 is 180, which can do 2 scrap machines at 100%, but then I run into what I do with the water again.

[cedar mica]

Alumina Solution, wants 70 in, which dont work out to 600 or 780, clean. So you always need to work the numbers

[warm wren]

70 ore in 🤔 and 100 water.

[cedar mica]

If you have a 780 belt of Bauxite, thats 11.14 refinerys

[warm wren]

I'm not concerned about the ore, if I have a little too much ore I'm fine with that.

[cedar mica]

Which is 891.2 solution, which is 9.9 refinerys of Electrode scrap...

So numbers be uneven, regardless

[warm wren]

Looks like my solution is going to be running the extra water to make concrete or something, having it fill up a mk2 container, then overflow to a shredder

[vagrant tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/shredder-tmnt-gif-10902244

[warm wren]

Not the place 😄

[dull bolt]

Need mk3 soon.

[candid quarry]

is there a calculator that gives me the best possible splitting solution

[junior lion]

@candid quarry When you are optimising you need to decide what to optimise for. What do you mean when you say "best possible"? Least waste? Least amount of splitters?

[polar sleet]

always aim for throughput... unless you think it might crash your game

[candid quarry]

@junior lion i meant least waste yeah

[glacial hemlock]

all method of belt splitting should produce no waste.

if one belt is full, any normal splitter will overflow the items to the remaining non-saturated belts

[fair skiff]

could someone confirm that those percentages (on total iron usage) are correct?

[glacial hemlock]

Not interested in non-manifold splitting

I am sure the 25% and 55% is off, should be 26.66% and 53.33% instead. And you have given the system a bottleneck at the first merger

[fair skiff]

mmmmmmmmmmh

should I just use smart splitters and set up 3 of them with one iron ingots output and one overflow output?

[glacial hemlock]

Just use a row of normal splitter will do. No need so much hassle

[fair skiff]

disappointing, but thanks anyway for pointing bad points of that schematic
Didn't see that bottleneck at first

[stark mulch]

🤔 I dislike the maths on aluminium. Alt production (using coal instead of coke) is 90 solution per, but the production on the scrap is 80 per. Leaves me with 3x solution production to make 240 since my limit is 300, but that's 2.6666~ on the scrap production, I'd be okay with setting one machine to 66%, but two machines produce the other 60 water I need to cycle back to the solution production. Leaves me with that 66% machine producing water and needing something to do with it. I could cycle it back to the solution as well, but it's not an even number, 19.8 I think. Produce too much water and the scrap production falls behind, even if slightly, too little and solution falls behind.
@warm wren Pipe some of the excess water to the coal plants if at all possible or send it to large fluid buffers and flush it regularly

[muted crypt]

or just let the water back up

[hybrid horizon]

Yeah, shouldn't ever need to flush water unless there's something wrong with the layout

[stark mulch]

Yea you guys are right

I had conveyors in mind for some reason

[muted crypt]

...you can let the conveyors back up too

[inner niche]

anyone has an idea how to balance 5 to 6? 1 input is uneven

[muted crypt]

you want to balance five into six?

is this five fully compressed belts, orrr

[inner niche]

yeah, I have 4x 260/m + 192~/m, mk3 belts

I would just run it along with mergers but the belts won't handle it

[red river]

can always just split all 5 belts 6 ways evenly, and then merge 6 sets of 5 together, though that'll take up a lot of room

or use smart splitters 5 feed 5 with overflow, and merge all the overflows together for the 6th

[inner niche]

I haven't unlocked smart splitters yet ;_;

[red river]

i guess the 192 needs a small amount of overflow

you can fake it with a chain of splitters and mergers, but at that point, you are probably better off with 5 6-way splits and 6 5-way merges

[inner niche]

welp

guess I'm gonna have to figure stuff out.

[muted crypt]

Yeah these numbers are a bit awkward

makes them hard to work with

[inner niche]

you don't say

[muted crypt]

Do you need the full 1232 items/min?

[inner niche]

oh yes.

it's from a calculator

[muted crypt]

hmm

[inner niche]

but I did kind of figure something out.

[muted crypt]

So you need approximately 206 items/min on each belt if you want them evenly divided, right?

[inner niche]

well I'm actually thinking instead of splitting it evenly I'll just load balance it

these produce 260/m, assemblers in front take 100/m, there's 12 of them

actually the odd one is 210/m so

and one assembler takes 150/m

[muted crypt]

steel screws going into... rotors?

[inner niche]

yeah

[stark mulch]

...you can let the conveyors back up too
@muted crypt for me it depends I have bauxite and copper ingots share a belt going to my aluminum plant

so the main transit belt has to be ket moving

[muted crypt]

sharing a belt is never a good idea unless you know they're going somewhere and will never back up under any circumstances

so like my centralized storage in my current factory produces 308.5 items/min but uses mk4 belts, and any overflow goes into a sink

it'll never back up, so I'm okay with mixing these

[stark mulch]

I have good overflow plans but if it happens it won't be hard to fix. I have a relatively simply layout for AL

I just didn't have enough materials to make the 2nd mk4 belt so I got lazy haha

[muted crypt]

@inner niche using the overflow/manifold method for each of your 260 belts, let the 100/min go into two assemblers (200/260 being used) and then let the excess 60 flow out onto an excess belt... merge excess belts down the line as needed

that's what I would do

in this specific instance, anyway

[inner niche]

another question, if my logic is correct then I can solve this pretty easily:
given a belt with 260/m (mk3) and a splitter, with a mk1 belt (60) and a mk3 (270) on the split, the splitter will always give you 60 on the mk1, right?

because it tries to split 1/1 and it cannot, because of the lower bandwidth

[muted crypt]

actually, yes

you're correct on that, because it would try to put 130/min on but it can only support 60/min anyway

[inner niche]

yeah

I used that method in another place but wasn't sure if it'd work, but assumign splitters always try to do 1/1 it would work

[muted crypt]

that's actually not a bad idea ngl

[inner niche]

this way I can actually load balance it pretty easily.

I'll use a mk1 belt to get 150 out of 210

so the 150% assembler is done

and the rest is simple

credit me in a youtube video if you steal the idea lmao

[muted crypt]

I don't do youtube, but ok

[inner niche]

it was a general thing to say

anyway yeah I thought it was pretty neat.

[hybrid horizon]

Why load balance at all though. Ratios are easier with full belts, use the leftover unfilled belt for personal storage production maybe?

[vale surge]

for concrete recipes, which one is best? I'm at a spot on the map with 2 pure quartz nodes within about 100m, so silica is fairly easy to make if fine concrete turns out cheaper, but I was also looking at wet concrete

I'm currently using fine concrete and have been since before I upgraded space elevator to unlock tier 5 & 6, so didn't really have the option of wet concrete until recently..

I guess the same thing goes with the pure iron / copper / etc

[inner niche]

@hybrid horizon belts running at capacity

cannot move it other way pretty much

I do manifolds everywhere else

[muted crypt]

Something else that you can do

[hybrid horizon]

Like, I had 3x300 coal from 3 normal nodes. I just ran mk4 belts, split one to merge into the other two for 450/m

[muted crypt]

something I saw in a Kibitz video

Have only one main belt feeding into the machines, but a bunch of supplementary belts to pull from

to keep providing for the main line, almost like you would for a main bus

[inner niche]

@hybrid horizon cool, but I only have mk3 belts

[hybrid horizon]

I guess what I'm saying is that forcefully saturating belts via merges auto-maxes your throughput

[inner niche]

@muted crypt doesn't that lower efficiency though?

unless the belts are really fast I suppose

[muted crypt]

No

because every so often (if you really wanted to, you could do it after every machine) you're putting it back up to max capacity

[hybrid horizon]

I run one long line of smelters/forges. If I need more throughput than the belt provides, I run it parallel and merge it in at a point down the line where it's needed

[inner niche]

soo basically manifold?

but with inputs

[muted crypt]

kinda yeah

hang on lemme find the kibitz video

[hybrid horizon]

I guess, not sure what people here refer to as manifold. I do the same for outputs

[muted crypt]

it might take me a minute lol idk which it is

[inner niche]

I do that with my factory atm, but I don't think it'll work at 100% unless the inputs are lower than the belt capacity

[hybrid horizon]

Overall, I focus less on belts and more on smelter and miner balance. I have 900 ore a minute, I make smelters to handle 900 ore a minute

[inner niche]

well yeah

[hybrid horizon]

Then I add as many parallel belts as needed to transport said material

[inner niche]

the issue isn't about handling this for me, it's about transporting it

[hybrid horizon]

As long as you merge them at the right spots they should auto balance along the smelter line

Is this maybe from normal/impure nodes and that's where your problems at?

[inner niche]

nah

I have like 6 belts running at 270/m

3 iron, 1 copper, 2 coal

it's all calculated, the issue is actually transporting it at times because of these belt speeds

since I'm still at mk3

[hybrid horizon]

Guess I'm still not grasping the problem. If I have 600 iron a minute, it's going on 2x270 and 1x60(pre-built 270 for later expansion). 630? Same thing but last belt is 90/m

[inner niche]

yeah but how do you put it on the belts?

can you put a splitter on top of the miner?

well, the output

oh, you mean like in the factory itself

[hybrid horizon]

You can't get more than a belt capacity from a single miner

On the previous example I provided, 3 coal nodes provided 300/m and were in fairly close proximity. I merged them at the nodes

[inner niche]

yeah but the problem isn't really about that, the issue with this is that it's a product that I need to split into 11 x 100 lanes

soooooooo

[hybrid horizon]

Ohhh ok

[inner niche]

basically I have 60 leftover, and then another 4 constructors doing 260/m

I need to push that into 11 assemblers at 100/m

[hybrid horizon]

I don't build short runs and tend to build every product to node capacity

So I avoid the problem

[inner niche]

oh crap I think I have it

....lmaaaao

[hybrid horizon]

I'd show you a picture but I'm working

[inner niche]

basically the answer is this, since they produce 260/m and I need 11 x 100, I can split out 60 with a splitter, then split the 200 into 2 x 100

and worry about the leftover 60 later.

[hybrid horizon]

I'm guessing this is about screws given the numbers?

[inner niche]

yep

[coral thorn]

I usually do the 5 : 2 thing

2 make 80 screws, and feed half of 40 to that to make it 100

[hybrid horizon]

So I would build my constructors in a line or paired with their respective assemblers

[inner niche]

yyyeah I kinda didn't do that and my ratios are a bit all over the place since the numbers come from a calculator

[hybrid horizon]

I always try to find the common denominator. What fy said is what I do. 40/min paired with the need of 100/min means I target the common 200/min

So 5 constructors pairs with 2 assemblers

[inner niche]

steel screws though.

it's such a nice recipe

[hybrid horizon]

I haven't unlocked many alternates, didn't explore on this run and I know they changed them since my last world. Also, pain to get to them from the dune start imo

[red river]

since you are using 5 steel screw constructors anyways, you can also rate 3 of them to output 200, and only have to deal with 2x260 into 5x100

[inner niche]

but then I wouldn't be able to feed them into 12 assemblers

but yes, I kinda should've just build more and underclock them to 200, it would've been easier.

[hybrid horizon]

The Congo line belting I mentioned earlier would work fine too, just requires more splitters/mergers and belts

[inner niche]

I will have the most beautiful spaghetti.

Thank you for the ideas still

[wild wadi]

How important is the building in satisfactory? I got the first phase of the space elevator should I start using buildings more?

[hybrid horizon]

You mean like foundations? It makes organization significantly easier.

[muted crypt]

Foundations and walls help organization significantly, but the actual aesthetics aren't necessary at all

Function takes priority over form, but that's not to say you can't put any priority into form either

[hybrid horizon]

At first phase you probably have a dozen or so constructors and assemblers. At third phase, you're talking several hundred to a thousand

[muted crypt]

I mean

if that's how you wanna scale, then yeah, that's phase 3...

[hybrid horizon]

Trying to keep that manageable without grid snapping would make me quit the game 😂

[muted crypt]

but I have everything that isn't supercomputers, uranium related, or bauxite related in my factory being produced and I doubt I have more than 200 machines, if that

I probably could count when I get home

[hybrid horizon]

I've got over 200 machines dedicated to computers or heavy frames alone.

[muted crypt]

yeah I'm not near that

I don't even have a proper power facility set up beyond coal and a bootleg fuel plant (that's also producing my plastic and rubber lol)

I'm working on setting up a power buffer so I can actually support starting up a turbofuel plant

[hybrid horizon]

I got lucky, one of my few hard drives gave me compacted coal

3mw from one set of nodes, another 3 from my refinery coke byproducts

[muted crypt]

It took me like...

30-something drop pods to get the recipes I need for the "most efficient" means of making turbofuel

[hybrid horizon]

Actually, I don't even have any fuel running at all. I probably should for the jetpacks at least

Was more interested in getting 800 plastic/min needed for my computer setup

[muted crypt]

I'm debating if using 900 crude oil/min just on power is worth it

[hybrid horizon]

I felt like plastic was my bottleneck but I haven't started producing aluminum yet. Things will probably be different in tier 7 and I'll have to adjust priorities.

Setting up a nice dedicated set-and-forget power plant has it's merits though

[vale surge]

I'm debating if using 900 crude oil/min just on power is worth it
not when you don't use half the coal nodes on the map and it's easy to make 16 gen setups if not better

I cut my 900oil farm to 600 in favour of making a 32x gen farm & a 16x farm at two different spots on the map ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[muted crypt]

I guess my main thing is I don't know where I want to set all this up

There's no good places for sulfur, coal, water and crude oil without using trains

and I would need...

900 crude oil/min, 2400 water/min, 1600 coal/min and 1600 sulfur/min

[hybrid horizon]

Phew

[muted crypt]

but that would support......

I think like 444.444 fuel generators? 👀

[hybrid horizon]

Why not use trains? I'd build with the coal and sulrfur in mind first and work out the rest later

[muted crypt]

and I'd be getting 7200 points/min for my sink 🤣

[hybrid horizon]

That way you can just use coal gens in the meantime

[muted crypt]

well I mean it's not that I don't want to use trains

I certainly do

My main thing is balancing out the resource requirement with travel time, load time, etc

[vale surge]

There's no good places for sulfur, coal, water and crude oil without using trains
@muted crypt NW east of desert

[hybrid horizon]

I mean, for now I'd build an extensible setup of compaxted coal

And as you need more materials, extend it

[muted crypt]

@vale surge 1600 sulfur/min

the whole desert has a whopping 2 pure sulfur nodes

which leaves me like 40 sulfur/min short 😩

[hybrid horizon]

You're simply not going to get that kind of sulfur in a localized area without mk3 miners and mk5 belts

[muted crypt]

I know, I'm taking into account the mk3 miners and mk5 belts

[hybrid horizon]

Best place is probably south of the dunes, near the delta

But building sucks over there

[muted crypt]

oh wait there is a third sulfur node in the desert..

[hybrid horizon]

There's also 3 normals southwest of it

Turn on normal sulfur and pure coal and you'll see where I mean

[muted crypt]

Three pure sulfur, three pure coal
but that's the whole frickin desert

[hybrid horizon]

Near the coal lake that gets used by northern forest starts

[vale surge]

I was talking NW not NE, don't know total sulfur though

[muted crypt]

ugh I just realized I'd need to get some aluminum going too

I haven't started that yet and I definitely need to

[hybrid horizon]

Also very close to oil.

[muted crypt]

Currently this is what my dinky little factory produces

[rates are per minute]

AI Limiter:              5
Cable:                   30
Computer:                3.75
Concrete:                50
Copper Sheet:            10
Crystal Oscillator:      1
Encased Industrial Beam: 12
Heavy Modular Frame:     2
High-Speed Connector:    3.75
Iron Plate:              20
Iron Rod:                15
Modular Frame:           3
Motor:                   5
Nobelisk:                3
Quickwire:               60
Reinforced Iron Plate:   15
Rotor:                   5
Steel Beam:              15
Steel Pipe:              20
Wire:                    30

I say "little" but it's only little because it's just a box

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/387363831367729152/724496362745626634/Screenshot20200622-01281000000.png

box.

[hybrid horizon]

I like the columns

[muted crypt]

I found that it was easiest to do that

my main floor is level with the HUB, that's where centralized storage is

all of the production comes in and works its way up

apart from plastic and rubber, which are produced quite far from here (northern oil coast), it takes in purely raw resources

iron ore, copper ore, caterium ore, quartz, sulfur, coal, limestone, plastic, rubber

It's not a very aesthetically pleasing base, I'll admit

but it's relatively compact and produces plenty of what I need

[hybrid horizon]

You'd dislike how ugly mine is

[muted crypt]

all of the excess flows into a sink, so the factory is constantly running, too

[muted crypt]

Right now I believe the only things not fully stocked are concrete (because I just used a shit ton on a coal plant for a power buffer), encased industrial beams (same reason), copper sheets (same reason), computers, heavy modular frames and crystla oscillators (because those just take a while to produce)

I'm not at home so I can't actually get a screenshot of everything I'm doing yet

remind me in like... 4 hours... and I'll get you one lol

[hollow fossil]

how many smelters do i need for 3 level 2 drills

[muted crypt]

on what richness and what clock speed

[hollow fossil]

defualt clock

[muted crypt]

and what richness of nodes

[hollow fossil]

let me check

[muted crypt]

You can add up how much ore per minute you're producing and divide that number by 30 to see how many smelters you need

With the exception being caterium

That one is divided by 45^^

[hollow fossil]

the coppser is nirmal

[muted crypt]

so a mk 2 miner has a base production of 120/min, and a normal multiplier is x1

so your copper can produce 120/min, which supports 4 smelters

[drowsy flicker]

Hope Mk 2 smelters and the like can become a thing, would love to condense that down

[fresh salmon]

hey guys, do you know what the diluted packaged fuel power loop is? i cannot remember it

[glacial hemlock]

Wiki

[indigo solstice]

well dang... i'm moving to oil now, found a nice oil patch (a purple/bluish lake) with 6 (!) oil fields. i calcualted it will procude 1020/m of oil. pipes only handle 300/m... so that means I cant simply put everything in one pipe right?i need 4 pipes for all of it?which also means I can't simply go manifold with the stuff into refineries?

[glacial hemlock]

you have to separate the pipes. But you can simplify that by building the manifold of refineries close to the oil nodes.

[indigo solstice]

hm but even the outputs of the refineries will be too much for my belts (mk3) to handle 😄 i guess i'll not utilize all the nodes for now

[round zinc]

I still haven't tapped all those oil nodes

[elder frost]

@fierce ruin you asked before.. both

an hour and 13 minutes ago

[fierce ruin]

Oh sorry wrong copy and pasted

[plush lichen]

Is there a chance for base defending game on next update?

[empty hemlock]

nope

devs did not want to make more towerdefense after already making 2 towerdefense games

[indigo solstice]

sanctum could use a refresher though. it shows its age imo

[fierce ruin]

strage quesiton, how do i balance 240 caterium into 10 refineries (1 ref takes 24 cat./min)

or is it better to just overclock it to take 12 refiniresis?

[molten hare]

B-but refinery can't eat Caterium.

[fierce ruin]

can

bascially how do i make a 10-balancer, or is it better to make it a 12 refinery setup?

[molten hare]

Oh, right, was thinking the Ingot.

[fierce ruin]

oh nvm i got it

i just make 2 of the 5 balancers

[indigo solstice]

balancer?

[fierce ruin]

there should be a line between the left splitter and merger

[indigo solstice]

what's the advantage to a single conveyor with splitters for a manifold

[fierce ruin]

manifold?

[obsidian trench]

Putting splitter after splitter

Inline

[indigo solstice]

     |    |    |    |    |
--->[S]--[S]--[S]--[S]--[S]-->

[fierce ruin]

will it work aswell tho?

[indigo solstice]

it will balance itself over time

[fierce ruin]

oh ok. Thank you very much!

[indigo solstice]

imagine; if the first [S] is blocked, it will output everything (instead of half) to the right

[fierce ruin]

yeah thats what i thought

[indigo solstice]

and so on, down the line

the only disadvantage is, that it takes some time for the last [S] to be utilized

because you basically have to wait until all previous [S] are blocked / full

[fierce ruin]

k

kinda like pipes then?

not so much but similar in some sort

[cunning swift]

strage quesiton, how do i balance 240 caterium into 10 refineries (1 ref takes 24 cat./min)
@fierce ruin ...think the balanced way is to split incoming to 12 lines, then feed lines #11 and #12 back in to the input line ...so you end up with 1 input (supplemented by #11 and #12) outputting to lines #1-#10

...I think

[glacial hemlock]

or split into 5, then split into 2 each. 1:5 balancer is in wiki

[fierce ruin]

what do u mean with that pic

its literally MATH nad meta

[glacial hemlock]

lol

[indigo solstice]

point is that with manifolds you dont need math, which is easier 😄

[glacial hemlock]

True

[wind spade]

point is balancers are not meta

[indigo solstice]

they gotta be useful for something tho right

[vale surge]

for people with massive amounts of steel production:

What do you produce more of: beams or pipes? I'm thinking pipes and then using the pipe alt for encased beams among other recipes... But I know some of the recipes using beams are more effective, not necessarily more efficient, however.

and by massive amounts I mean anywhere from 1200 ingots/min to really whatever you may have

[polar sleet]

the closest you get to using balancers in this game is to force ratios of mats sent to different production types, that happen to not have perfect match consumption rates due to over/underclocking; and need their input regulated to a specific amount, so they don't steal from others

[red river]

balancers are also helpful/needed for train transportation, so one segment doesn't fill up before others and reducing throughput of the train

[polar sleet]

since overflow got implemented though, you can sort of manifold your train stations. more of a hybrid balancer/manifold really

[vivid yew]

I was trolled by satisfactory creators, fucking aracnophobic mode, little cats

[vale surge]

it's even more frightening when you can hear random meows and not see anything then all the sudden take damage D:

[stark bronze]

The attack seems to be the same sound
But well cats attack with that sound too

[wind spade]

@vale surge it isn't supposed to be less scary, it's supposed to be "no spiders"

[tidal ledge]

how fast to train stations load items?

do*

[sand garnet]

25 sec loading/ unloading animation

[molten hare]

@vale surge on steel, during earliest phase, I produce more beams for belts mk.3.

[glacial hemlock]

I didn't turn on the sound, I rely on the subtitle, especially 'Quick footsteps'

[vale surge]

@vale surge on steel, during earliest phase, I produce more beams for belts mk.3.
@molten hare I've got mk.4's atm... So encased are priority - and I've gone with the recipe using pipes so I'll stick to making more pipes

thanks tho

[molten hare]

Well, mk.4 beam requires steel beam, though I rarely use mk. 4 until I get miner mk.3.

[vale surge]

I use it for overclocked miners, then insta split into 2 mk3's

[wooden matrix]

manifold?
@fierce ruin manifold is an other way to word the overflow method

[eager solar]

if I merge all the smelters together then split everything in 3 with 1 splitter, will it balance itself eventually?

[vale surge]

technically if you underclock some machines it will overflow or depending on where you feed the outputs then the same thing

[round sparrow]

Guys how do I split one to 10 ? there is any solution?!

[wooden matrix]

yes, there's even a vid on that exact topic, let me find the link for ya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ3gE-3DcFQ&t=457s

that shows how to split into ten from one lane

[safe hawk]

That seems like a very convuluted way of doing things instead of just using a manifold

[wooden matrix]

yeah, but it's for load balancing instead so it's going to be more complicated and less space efficient, but it gets all the machines running at once instead of them not going at once until all machines are overflowed

[still pier]

Does anyone feel that manifold is bad for the game? Would the game ultimately be more fun if using a manifold was not as efficient? It seems like it would be super fun to have to use these complicated systems.

[safe hawk]

I have no idea how you would make manifolds not work but nothing is stopping you from just not using them, i find it fun by using manifolds, if you don't just don't use em

[glacial hemlock]

Manifold is more efficient. So don't get the key idea wrong.

I have built a 40 Turbomotor /min, all only using manifold. Although the full setup startup time is like 10 hours or so, the whole system is running 100% non-stop after that

[tough ermine]

so i like to setup a miner with 2 smelters and 2 contructors. is this effecient or not even close?

[glacial hemlock]

Just started a fresh game? The ratio seems ok

[tough ermine]

yeah i keep starting over to get thing slaid out right

[round sparrow]

What does manifold means!?

[red river]

input -> splitter -> splitter -> splitter -> splitter

each splitter feeds a machine

[sleek iron]

whats manifold

[glacial hemlock]

Wiki manifold

[molten hare]

Something that folds many times.

[wooden matrix]

manifold is just slower starting up, but in the long run is best

[tough ermine]

what ya think. will upgrade conveyor later on

[wooden matrix]

not bad start

I'm thinking of restarting for the hell of it, I'm going to keep my save, but I like the early stages when it's simpler

probably in the dunes also since good building space in the long run

[tough ermine]

yeah picked here to start and make a smaller factory

[crystal oak]

wonder how you managed those mixed belt if one assembler stop working?

[wooden matrix]

don't question

[shell kestrel]

Dunes is GREAT! There is so much space, it’s great having not to worry about tons of obstacles, the only issue is food at the start, since there is very little vegetation it’s hard to find food, and you honestly don’t really have to worry about early power since there is a good amount of trees for the biomass and if your first priority becomes coal you can easily get some coal generators up and running and the biomass power can just be used for transferring water

[glacial hemlock]

wow

[quartz storm]

BLOOD

[indigo solstice]

so... how do you manifold pipes? when i need to supply 8 goal generators, I need 360 water. but pipes only carry 300. how can I supply 8 generators with 3 water extractors with the minimal amount of pipes possible

[molten hare]

3 water for 5 generators. Other setup is 5 water for 13 generators.

[indigo solstice]

so basically I'll just have some water over in the end

[molten hare]

Yup. With manifold water, you can practically have an output of 600 for a closed pipe loop.

[indigo solstice]

huh wait why 600

[molten hare]

300 on both ends.

[river night]

you can make one manifold pipe that connects all generators, and at strategy points add the supply pipes from the water extractors

not really anything "left" that way

[indigo solstice]

oh that works? so i "inject" water from the next extractor at the "end" of the first one?

[river night]

the simplest approach is supply at both ends, but in bigger setups i have supply in the middle as well

[indigo solstice]

right cool

[river night]

yes it works fine, flow rate is calculated for every segment, as along as no single segment ever wants to c arry more then 300, its fine

[molten hare]

Yup. Pipe can go both ways. It's more like manifold, but water pumps.

[indigo solstice]

so pipe junctions are splitters and mergers in one so to say

[molten hare]

Yis.

https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Water_Extractor#/media/File:Coal_Generator_Schematic.png

[river night]

my current coal gen layout has 300 input at the front, then 8 plants use water,then the next input with 300, and so on

[indigo solstice]

yeah im working on something similar. i have enough coal for 32 plants

[river night]

but my water is not very near so i combined at the source to 300 pipes, if you are right on top of the water you can do it like in that image as well

[indigo solstice]

yeah its a really nice spot. 4 coal directly at a huge lake

that image helps greatly, thanks. now i'll just multiply that by 4 and i got everything 😄

[molten hare]

Lake Crater is a blessing, though it's a bit on the rough to traverse to Grassland.

[indigo solstice]

oh it has a name? 😄 the purple/bluish one with large mushrooms?

[molten hare]

Yep. I took a peek on the wiki.
4 Oils also there.

Protip: There's a dangerous shortcut from there to your base.

[indigo solstice]

yeah i originally came because of the oil and then noticed the coals and just had to start a powerplant 😄

[river night]

crater lakes on the highlands? i have a steel factory there at that big coal field

[molten hare]

Oh, Blue Crater. Wrong name.

[river night]

Don't think I've been there yet!

oh yeah its all the way in the south

[indigo solstice]

yeah i spaned in grasslands. blue crater is the furthest ive gone so far 😄

[muted crypt]

3 water for 5 generators. Other setup is 5 water for 13 generators.
@molten hare I realize I'm several hours late (I was asleep) but who told you this number?

each generator uses 45 water/min, and each extractor produces 120 water/min

the lowest multiple that these two numbers share is 360, which is 8 generators (360/45) and 3 extractors (360/120).

using three extractors for five generators is just bad math

[tepid thistle]

not to mention the 300m3/min capacity of pipes

[muted crypt]

unless you're doing some weird underclocking

Well yes, but usually what I do is split one extractor 60 each way and merge it with a 120

Then each pipe that holds 180/min goes to 4 generators

[molten hare]

Ye, my bad. It's 3 to 8. I was inhaling potato.

[muted crypt]

understandable

[tepid thistle]

I know, I do the same setup but didnt see splitting the middle pump in the conversation earlier

[muted crypt]

you could also underclock water extractors to 75% and then have each water extractor support 2 generators

Because of how manifolding works, the middle one can just split and merge over time to more properly fit what is needed

it'll balance itself out eventually lol

[hybrid horizon]

easiest layout is simply to do 2:1 coal gens to extractors. slightly less power efficient but easier layout and perfectly tileable

water extractors are just about twice as wide as a coal generator, so you can lay them out like so:

single pipe, all extractors tied into every 2nd pipe junction

[fierce ruin]

Anyone know how would I take 240 oil (2 impure 1 normal) coming together into 1 pipe (from 3 buffers) and split it evenly in junctions to 5 refineries?

[warm summit]

Only 5?

[dense aurora]

hey guys need some help do belt mk2+ effect how many items per min something produces cuz im using a calculator thingy and it confusing me@here

[hybrid horizon]

no. if you saturate a belt, it will take twice as many constructors to utilize the belt's contents. As an example, iron rods on a regular belt of 60/min take 4 constructors, a mk2 would take 8 constructors to use all the iron

[dense aurora]

im trying to make everything efficient but its not happening thats for sure and i donno were its going wrong

used a site that said to make 4 rotors per min said to set it to 67% or something

[hybrid horizon]

focus on total outputs and total inputs for each specific production line

and use belts according to those numbers

4 smelters? merge them together on one mk2 belt, since it produces 120/min

then you build constructors according to how much input they need to utilize that 120/min

[dense aurora]

alright

[tawdry pebble]

my brain is melting again while calculating copper ingots per minute for 405 AI limiters and 750 heatsink production lines
A.I. - 3375 for quickwire + 4050 for copper sheets
heatsinks - 3240 copper sheets
all in is per minute counts.😱 and the foundry's copper alloy recipe will be coming in very handy.
Yes i am aware of the refinery for copper ingots and copper sheets but the amount of space needed will be insane.

[scenic pendant]

the larger it is, the better it look, and you want to use the most effective method

[wise mango]

I spent the last week building those things... lots of repetition @tawdry pebble

[warm wren]

Is there are "best method" for constructing computers, I need to do 60 per minute. I only care about which of the three reicpes to use.

[wise mango]

You'll likely want to use multiple

I actually use all 3 recipes on my save doing 85/m rn

[warm wren]

For this build in this spot I'd only have to use one.

[wise mango]

Ok, assuming you don't have a ton of crystal oscillators lying around I like the Caterium Computer recipie the most overall

It's the most space efficient

Downside is it takes a shit ton of Caterium which is obv very valuable

Crystal computer can be very good if you have a lot of quartz

[tawdry pebble]

Crystal comps are IMO considered meta in the game. In my playthrough starting in the rocky desert the eastern part has 4 quartz nodes 2 are underground in the cave and lots of caterium near by and oil not to far either for rubber.

[warm wren]

I did Crystal Comps on my update 2 build, which was the last time I built a super large factory But I wasn't sure if they were still the thing.

[glacial hemlock]

Yes they are (check wiki / various calculator). Btw i will also recommend caterium computer

[cursive sinew]

Hey

When pipes are going straight down

Do they need pumps?

[coral needle]

No

[cursive sinew]

Ok

Thanks

[dense harbor]

5 extractor to 12 coal gen in 2 main pipes

feeling bad at this

[wise mango]

why feeling bad? that's a good setup 🙂

next thing you know you'll have 50GW of Turbofuel + Nuclear power!

[warm wren]

Yeah there's nothing wrong with that.

You have to bear in mind that anything with pipes is a bit gimmicky at the moment due to our 300/min limitation on them

Like in ye olden days when we had a 450 limit on belts 🤫

[dense harbor]

should i connect the two main pipes?

[indigo vigil]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[glacial hemlock]

^ A programmer

[wooden matrix]

that's a good rule to follow XD

[chilly maple]

fixing something that works as intended usually is a process of breaking it then wondering why it doesn't work anymore

[warm wren]

Besides, you're probably not staying on coal power forever.

[wooden matrix]

OH YEAH WATCH ME

[glacial hemlock]

you gotta stick to coal for 30 hours before switching to fuel / turbofuel for another 30 hours then finally nuclear

[steel echo]

I myself prefer exploring and getting all the thermal energy for my building partner

[scenic pendant]

You can switch to nuclear power after 30 hours without an issue

[steel echo]

I already got my flow chart how to build it but he refuses to build me a train

[crystal oak]

is there spreadsheet or calculator that determine whatever if it is better to take overflow raw resource to make finish good for Awesome Sink points?

[stark bronze]

That depends on your production condition but normally processed goods is better

[tepid thistle]

I am still on coal and have every tier unlocked, all depends how quick you want to play

[glacial hemlock]

wow, @tepid thistle how many hours when you unlocked all tech? with only coal?

[tepid thistle]

60hrs, with all hard drives and about 1/2 the slugs done aswell which was about 10+hours worth. Only my first playthrough aswell 🤷‍♂️

[shrewd oxide]

is there a way to balance 55/45

[karmic trellis]

Are you merging before you want to split? There are situations where I’ve split before merging.

[shrewd oxide]

yes

ahhh thanks for that tip. Guess I need to split before merge

not merge all at the same time

[oblique hollow]

alright i think this message is more fit for this channel.

Something that WOULD be interesting is the following: say you overclocked a building to 150%, but it only gets enough materials for normal production time (100%). then the building simply scales it's own usage down. if it gets more resources, it scales back up, but NEVER above the 150% you set

[river night]

when its out of resources and on standby, it doesnt actually use power, so it sort of does that anyway, just that it works in bursts

[oblique hollow]

yea but now imagine full scaling instead of On/Off

[woeful skiff]

That would be pretty sweet as a late-game tier unlock.

[red river]

i think that would be rather difficult and/or computationally intensive from a system point of view, since every machine now has to either predict what's coming in, or look back all the way through the production line to see what's coming in

and if there is a buffer that you can manually fill, everything goes out of the window on top of that

[oblique hollow]

actually they just have to make an average of the input over like 5 production cycles and then adjust accordingly

if there is a storage container, then they burn through it and slow down after

if within those 5 production cycles the input rate is constantly greater than the machine can currently handle, then it simply scales up (but not above the % you set)

if its always less and the machine is in idle, then it simply scales down

[red river]

that would be potentially awful for a manifold startup

since a machine can be starved of input for quite some time

like if you set a machine to 100%, but it doesn't receive enough material to start within 5 cycles, does it set itself to 0%?

[oblique hollow]

since it never even started it's cycle, it just stays at 100%

a production cycle is when the machine finished producing it's item

if it never did that, then it doesnt adjust. which is fine too, since machines that are idle consume no power

I dont see any major complications with manifolds

if you wanted me to show that i could try and do the math

[red river]

let's say a manifold that's 10 long, during saturation, the last 2 only receive 1/512 of resources each

gradually improving to 1/10

what happens in the mean time?

[oblique hollow]

if the machines constantly have too little material to start up, then nothing happens, they just idle.
If they managed to do a cycle, then they simply dont adjust until the 5 (or any number, 5 was just a wild guess) cycles are done.

so normal manifold behaviour really

if they do complete their 5th cycle, then they will have noticed that it took more than simply 5x production time to complete, and will downscale

but the exact method and math of doing this is wild speculation, really

[frosty basalt]

I am a little confused on something, I have 4 assemblers making reinforced plates and I have 600 screws a minute coming into them but they still do not get filled up in time, any idea why?

[red river]

are all the screws coming on one belt? and what belt are you using?

you'd need mk5 belt to run all 600 items per minute

[frosty basalt]

2 MK3 belts, one with 280 a minute, the other with 320

[red river]

mk3 belt is 270 per minute max

so the belts are bottlenecking

[oblique hollow]

ya need better belts

[frosty basalt]

Ah okay, so I will just split into more belts for now then

[red river]

yeah, screws suck

[frosty basalt]

Thank you guys

Indeed

[austere zinc]

i need to bring this pipe up. at how many walls each should i put wall pipeline support and pump ? any idea ?

[red river]

5 walls for each pump, which i believe you can place on the wall directly, you probably won't need any support at all beyond the pumps

[austere zinc]

i see. let me try it. i didnt know u can put pumps directly onto walls. cheers mate thanks

[shrewd oxide]

if I can make 5 supercomputers per min is that alot

[glacial hemlock]

if this is your playthough, yes that is a lot. For experienced, it is not...

[fierce ruin]

a water extractors 10m head lift starts where? base of the water extractor? center of the pipe output?

[glacial hemlock]

Pipe output

[fierce ruin]

if I have more than enough supply of water, the most energy efficient way of creating a water tower would be to combine 3 extractors into 1 pipe to lift and then underclock the 3 extractors about 18% right?

Then I can drop that 300 capacity pipe to the rest of my supply and split it to supply the pressure.

[oblique hollow]

you mean that exploit, right?

[fierce ruin]

Not sure its an exploit as much as using actual real life application of liquid pressure

[safe hawk]

Its not real life

It would work like this on paper

But pressure is a real life variable that the game doesn't take into account

[scenic pendant]

Its not an exploit...

He will literally underclock the 3rd Extractor, so all 3 Extractors combined produce 300 upm

But if you have good power supply, I would suggest you overclocking 1 extractor to 300 ups

[polar sleet]

no need to overclock if water space is abundant though

also you could just run 5 water extractors at 100% into 2 pipe lines

given how the pressure mechanics work, this is fairly stable.

especially if the 2 lines have pumps on them

[dense aurora]

yo

should i use a splitter for like tons of machines if my iron ore does 240/min

to save space

or just use diff miners for diffrent lines

[hollow fossil]

mk 2 miners on a regular ion can do 2 smelters with no clock changes right?

[coral thorn]

mk 2 miner does 120 / min on normal iron

furnace smelts 30 / min

you can run 4 furnaces on that

[hollow fossil]

ok

thanks

[coral thorn]

just take however much ore you're making / min in total and divide by 30, that's how many furnaces you need

[wooden matrix]

I got four pure iron nodes running at 1200/min and it's amazing XD

[red river]

mk5 belt is only 780 though

so that's the max effective rate you can get

at least until they release mk6 belts, which hopefully will be 1200

[wooden matrix]

I got the more conveyers mod that have a mk6 belt that does 2k/min

[red river]

ah

[wooden matrix]

I hope teir8 releases mk6 belts though

[fossil ridge]

just take however much ore you're making / min in total and divide by 30, that's how many furnaces you need
@coral thorn furnace = smelters? or we unlock them further ahead o.O

[coral thorn]

I meant furnaces

smelters rather

thing you get at the start of the game

[fossil ridge]

ahhh

[coral thorn]

as far as I'm aware there isn't a better one

I know there's a mk 2 in the game files but you can't obtain it

might get added in the future

[fossil ridge]

so how does upgraded tier of convertor belt helps? like im using the mk1 still it's full with ore and smelter takes ages and send it forward still they are full till the constructor

[coral thorn]

better belts can move more items / min

T1 belts can only move 60 items / min

T2 can do 120, so you can move 2x as much ore on the one belt

the machines in this game aren't meant to be fast

you're meant to build a lot of them

[fossil ridge]

ahhh so I have to get more smelter/foundry right? to smelt

got it thanks

[coral thorn]

like this is what my smelting line looks like, there's 32 smelters here

[wooden matrix]

noice, I only have 26 at 250%