tbf I have one machine that makes turbomotors
#math-and-meta
fierce ruin
I cannot possibly use them as fast as it makes em, even in the initial flurry of "lol now I can upgrade all miners to mk3's!"
upbeat tide
Its more of the “I built that” thing than anything else
limber dirge
Is there somewhere that has factory plan layouts or just greenies and the other calc website?
fierce ruin
I feel like half the fun is finding your own way to cram 28 assemblers onto the floor of one building
upbeat tide
Thats why I like the daniel’s calc. It will tell you what you need, but let you figure out how to build it
fierce ruin
as this game gets mature it's gonna be hilarious how much the meta tightens
I have a coal plant I'm ashamed of because I used 26 water extractors when 24 could do it
fierce ruin
well, or care
upbeat tide
Just like in that other factor(io) game
upbeat tide
Ill never destroy my first U3 coal plant even if I turn it off
6 plants per pipe non meta
fierce ruin
my similar feeling is for "bioprocessing"
oof
yeah I went 2 for 5 instead of 3 for 8 with two pipes
upbeat tide
That was 1 to 6 x5
trim frigate
Is there any way to make use of an overclocked oil extractor on a pure node? 600 m3? Because the pipes can only take 300 m3
fallow tulip
Probably by puting a junction to split the pipe to have 2x300 idk
glacial hemlock
limited to 300, so overclock to 125%
a junction in front of extractor won't work
solid solstice
woeful skiff
Nope, because first pipe before the junction can only do 300. There's no way to use the full capacity there. Similar situation with pure resource nodes and maxed out miners with the tech in the game so far.
upbeat tide
Junctions are similar to splitters or mergers, they do not directly attach to the building
candid haven
big mac
meager crane
bann ihn weg
sand garnet
english only on this discord 🙂 @meager crane
full thunder
Hum, i have a weird issue.
I have several lines of refineries, lines of 10 to match the 300 m³/ min cap.
Checked the refineries twice, each of them does consume 30 m³ / min (producing plastic). At the end of the line the 2 last refineries doesn't work at 100% efficiency, while output isn't blocked and input is always up.
Never happened to me using "regular" feed lines (connected to pumps), the only difference here is I bring my oil by train, using several big buffers to make up for the unloading time.
So i don't get where the problem comes from 🤔
(it's not a pump problem either, tried to make some of these, doesn't solve the problem)
glacial hemlock
efficiency % is sometimes bugged, usually reload will solve the problem
full thunder
I meant it's really not consuming at the proper rate, the pipe is almost depleted as well, and it shouldn't
Will make a quick clip of it, it may be just a bug
¯_(ツ)_/¯
glacial hemlock
if you can get a top-down view, someone might be able to help. I go to sleep
full thunder
Thx for the reply anyway, gn gn 🙂
glacial hemlock
if problem persists between save-load then it is the setup with the incorrect ratio
upbeat tide
How is the oil fed to the refineries? If by train double check your setup.
I am having a similar issue and narrowed the suspect down to a train config issue
latent slate
If a mk3 miner is connected directly to a splitter can more than 780 be mined or no?
indigo vigil
Nope
fresh elm
no, it will still be 780
latent slate
ty
safe badger
for power consumption, each recipe has their own MJ value right? on-top of what the machine is using?
safe badger
so whats this then in the wiki?
referring to item?
wind spade
each machine uses certain amount of MJ per second (MW). Each recipe has a time (how long is it crafted).
so it's just [recipe time] * [machine consumption] value
not sure why the value is even there
wiki sometimes has weird values displayed
though it's correct
safe badger
also ur power consumption tool on ur site doesnt work, whenever i select things it doesnt auto-update: https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/consumption
wind spade
first, it's not updated for U3 (as stated in the yellow box above)
second, what exactly are you doing? it should still work
upbeat tide
On the wili that 160MJ per item is an aggregate of all the constructors, smelters, assemblers, etc involved in the basic item’s chain
And yea as stated its not really a reliable metric
wind spade
are you sure about that? 180 MJ per item is just the assembler
also there's nothing like "basic item chain"
safe badger
was just trying to use it to see how it calculated it as i'm working on one via a spreadsheet...
wind spade
uh
not sure if you know how to use it
input is what goes in the production line, output is what you want to produce
wind spade
so e.g. you can put iron ore in input and iron ingot in production
and you'll see the resulting production line
safe badger
still nothing
wind spade
did you set some alternate recipes?
wind spade
if you set it to the 
, then it forces the tool to use the alternate recipe insstead of basic recipe
which could mean it needed copper ore input for iron ingot alloy
anyway, the tool is just for U2, so if you're making something out of it, it will most likely use wrong data
upbeat tide
https://daniel2013.github.io/satisfactory/
This is the tool I use alot
wind spade
U3 update is still under development unfortunately
glacial hemlock
@safe badger the 180MJ per item that value, please hover your mouse over that number to see additional information about it. Thanks.
swift sorrel
Hum, i have a weird issue.
I have several lines of refineries, lines of 10 to match the 300 m³/ min cap.
Checked the refineries twice, each of them does consume 30 m³ / min (producing plastic). At the end of the line the 2 last refineries doesn't work at 100% efficiency, while output isn't blocked and input is always up.
Never happened to me using "regular" feed lines (connected to pumps), the only difference here is I bring my oil by train, using several big buffers to make up for the unloading time.
So i don't get where the problem comes from 🤔
@full thunder I am having this exact same issue right now, but mine is one continuous pipe. One end is an oil extractor on a pure node set to 125% (300 output), the other end of the pipe is a series of refineries using exactly 300 oil/m. The last 3 refineries are not working at full capacity. I tried putting multiple pumps along it, between the refineries, etc, but I can't make sense of why this setup isnt working.
glacial hemlock
if there is no overall screenshot, we can't identify the problem.
stand on top of a tall ladder or radar tower and take photos of them
swift sorrel
Here is rough overview, took screens of configurations
None of the outputs are blocked either
glacial hemlock
I see a pump in the image. remove it.
swift sorrel
Yea that was just me seeing if it made a difference which it didnt, i can remove it
Here is a screen of the last pipe segment before the farthest refinery
glacial hemlock
interact with the immediate pipe after the oil extractor, check if the flow rate is 300 or around 300m3
yes, i can see that from the pipe indicator on the first screen shot. Have guessed the pipe is almost empty
swift sorrel
The flow rate at the extractor side shows the same as the pipe just before the first refinery, it wildly fluctuates between about 230-290
glacial hemlock
it should fluctuate between 270 to 330, which averaged about 300
when looking the flow rate of the pipe, try to figure out the median / modal amount
swift sorrel
300 is max though, should i overclock the extractor beyond 125%?
glacial hemlock
no. 300 is max indeed. but the flow rate in a pipe is never a constant. It fluctuates
swift sorrel
oh ive never seen the number jump over 300 though
glacial hemlock
ok, now put a pump immediately after the extractor. then interact the pump to see it stats.
try screenshot it
swift sorrel
ok let me drive over there one min
there is a pump there already to get over a slight hill
glacial hemlock
if all these still don't work, try remove both power shards from the first 2 refineries, avoid overclock at all, then build the 10th refinery at the end and see if this helps
swift sorrel
This is what pump is showing, number goes up and down
glacial hemlock
head lift seems good, the flow rate has problem.
Q1: do you connect this pipe network to any fluid buffer? if yes, remove all fluid buffer. All.
Q2: how many pumps you have connected to this pipe network: check every pumps and make sure all pumps have head lift equal to or below 20 meters
swift sorrel
there is no buffers, that is the only pump
glacial hemlock
try to use least amount of images to capture all the pumps, i would like to see their placement
swift sorrel
This is how it looks from extractor side, its the middle pipeline in this picture is the one I'm working with
glacial hemlock
Q3: is all these pipes connected properly, sometime they can mismatch.
Q4: where does the end of pipe connect to? i see the pipe bend downwards at the end.
swift sorrel
It just ends there at a stackable pipeline
glacial hemlock
the extractor side seems good
now left with 1 option: remove the overclocking of the first 2 machines, then build the 10th at the end
swift sorrel
alright yea i removed the oc before i went out to extractor again for screenshot, to let the pipe fill fully, going to add the 10th one now
wind spade
ocing stuff is ineffective anyway, unless you're limited by nodes, you should always build more instead
glacial hemlock
I can't figure out why his pipe average flow rate is not reaching 300, looked like that pipe network is losing the flow rate somewhere.
unless the extractor did not output at 300m3
swift sorrel
hmm even with oc gone the 9th refinery is still not outputting fully
glacial hemlock
can take a snapshot of the oil extractor (the one on top of the oil node, and is connected to this problematic pipe)
glacial hemlock
hmmm...
try a brute approach: now overclock it to 150% temporarily and see hows the flow rate.
swift sorrel
seems to be a bit worse, between 200-250
glacial hemlock
i see you have some power shards. How about clock to 250%
swift sorrel
the range got bigger, seems about 170-270
glacial hemlock
ok, the problem is NOT the oil extractor, you can set it back to 125% (and remove the extra 2 power shards)
Q3: is all these pipes connected properly, sometime they can mismatch.
Q4: where does the end of pipe connect to? i see the pipe bend downwards at the end.
@glacial hemlock something must be wrong in this cyan-circled area.
swift sorrel
hmm i can try deleting and recreating that part
glacial hemlock
yes, try it.
swift sorrel
i think the problem might be before that spot even, i'm just going to redo all 9 inputs
right after the 1st refinery i see the pipe is not full
noble leaf
ok, so i have 26 Refineries per row for Copper ingot production, atm they are split into 2 output lines, a 750 line and a 225 line, i am trying to split and merge to make a full 780 line per row.... question is, where should i merge which line into the other to most effectively accomplish this with minimal to no back up of the other refineries. below are some screenshots to give visualization of what i am working with. I'm fairly certain i will need a smart/programmable splitter to split with an overflow . any thoughts?
fierce ruin
couldn't you just merge the end of a "something less than 780" line with whatever you other line is past that? It's what I'd do.
noble leaf
that's what i am thinking but i also think that would back up the refineries at the end of the larger line
fierce ruin
I don't see why
noble leaf
when you say "merge the end" which end of the larger line are you talking about? the output end? or the 'input' end of the line?
fierce ruin
the end where you've already split off most of it into other stuff
noble leaf
i just wanna make sure im following what you're saying
fierce ruin
refineries in this case
noble leaf
hmm... think i got what you're saying... and i just realized i need to switch to Experimental to test it out properly
swift sorrel
yes, try it.
@glacial hemlock no dice, i even "jumpstarted" the pipe by connecting it to the one under it which was coming from the other oil extractors, just to fully fill the pipe, but when i broke that connection, they have problems again, its so bad that even the last 4 are not running at full capacity now. Should I put more pumps along the long route to the base just to make sure?
glacial hemlock
the pump only deals with head lift and don't contribute to flow rate at all. The problem can only lies in the pipe network
swift sorrel
So the one pump that shows less than 20 accounts for the entire pipeline?
there are a few other small hills on the route that i dont think are 20 meter high, but i'm not quite sure
glacial hemlock
every pump should shows less than 20 meter head lift, and each pump would probably display different value, judging from your screenshot
perhaps you can build another copy of the setup, this time try building them at sea level. 10 refineries. See how it does
noble leaf
if its a problem of flowrate, then you dont have enough headlift somewhere in the pipeline
swift sorrel
oh so try more pumps then?
noble leaf
i have run into the same issue before and adding a few extra pumps fixed the issue
glacial hemlock
hmmm
noble leaf
im pretty sure its a bug somewhere, i couldnt find any other reason for the loss of flowrate
glacial hemlock
now said about that, @swift sorrel have you checked every pump each have head lift within 20 meters?
swift sorrel
there was only the 1 pump i screenshotted before
glacial hemlock
loss of flow rate only happens if the head lift is between 20 meters and 22 meters. Beyond that the flow rate will drop to 0 very quickly.
noble leaf
yup
glacial hemlock
his head lift is 17.9m so i think there is no problem.
noble leaf
also i have found it to be much more manageable to deal only with vertical and horizontal pipes. take more infrastructure but its better than dealing with that headache
glacial hemlock
i eliminate the problem at all by building everything on the sea.
noble leaf
i have found that following the terrain with pipes/pumps is a huge no-no
tho it is possible but then you introduce more room for errors and therefore more headaches
glacial hemlock
lol
glacial hemlock
swift sorrel
oh lol it was a backwards one, i thought they acted like mergers/splitters
and only have 1 direction it allows when you drop it on an existing one
noble leaf
nope, they act like check valves
swift sorrel
alright nvm that issue
alright let me check production now that i put a pump just before every slight incline
something is worse now... the pipe before the refineries is showing around 30 flow rate and all of them are starved
noble leaf
after adjustments you gotta give some time for the fluids to react.... its not always instantaneous
swift sorrel
i think it bugged somehow, pumps are flashing yellow and not pushing anything
i guess i've done what is listed in that picture as the first "avoid", which doesn't make sense why it wouldn't work, i'm guessing its a bug?
noble leaf
if its yellow it has no water reaching the middle of the pump
swift sorrel
I'm jumpstarting the pipe again by connecting it to the other pipe, until the refineries fully fill their inputs, then i'm going to disconnect the jumper to see if it maintains
glacial hemlock
how about putting your save file in google drive or something and share the link here.
swift sorrel
hang on the pump spam might have fixed it
noble leaf
you could also include a fluid buffer in the line (which will also help with surges after your refineries have idled for a while)
swift sorrel
well they aren't idling currently, and its back to broken again
last refinery is already dropping off on its input
noble leaf
just a dummy check.... but you arent trying to supply more than 300m^3/min are you?
swift sorrel
if you mean oc the extractor, i tried that to see if it would make a difference but it didnt, its back on 125% (300)
i just re-checked all 10 refineries and they are each inputting 30, no oc
noble leaf
ok.... well really all you can do at this point is check again all the pumps/pipes from start to finish and find where it starts to drop
i'd let it run for just a bit longer before you do that tho so you dont find a false drop
maybe go make a sandwhich, eat it and come back?
swift sorrel
do you mean like the first pipe that isnt staying full?
noble leaf
which ever pipe you are working on, go to the very beginning and check each segment and pipe and see what the flow rates say
but like i said, you want it to stabilize first so you know exactly where the problem is
swift sorrel
I forced it to stabilize faster by jumping the pipe from the other end with my 2nd pipeline network. After that the flow dropped off again and went back to the last few refineries not getting enough oil. As for the main pipeline, I checked each pipe along the way, and they all do the same thing from the extractor up to the first refinery, flow rate fluctuates wildly between about 270-300
noble leaf
do you have any fluid buffers?
noble leaf
i would add at least 1 in before the refineries
buffers help stabilize flow rate as well
i would put somewhere between your last pump and your first refinery connection
swift sorrel
alright i did, now im going to jump the pipe again and see what happens after removing the jump
didnt make a difference, last refineries are dropping off again
hmm maybe extractors have a spin up time like the miners? i wonder if putting a buffer between the extractor and first pump would help
noble leaf
yes extractors and water pumps do have a spin up like miners
glacial hemlock
10 seconds start up time
swift sorrel
Still no good... the buffers made it take much longer before becoming unstable, but once they all filled fully the issue is right back to the same
flow rate fluctuating wildly between 260-290 ish on the extractor and all of the pipes leading up to the refineries
gotta sleep... ill check it all again tomorrow to see if i'm missing something obvious
thanks for trying to help guys
smoky bison
How fast does the coal generator consume coal?
indigo vigil
Check the stopwatch symbol on the generator. It tells you how many seconds it takes to burn through 1 fuel resource. Divide 60 by that number.
smoky bison
okay
spark dove
Hey can someone check my math on this, i have 5 lines of 300pm coal coming in, is 8 the max amount of gens I need for each line
indigo vigil
Are you saying you have 1500 coal/min, and you want to know how many gens you can power with that?
spark dove
Yeah, I'm a lot drunk and having trouble confirming my math
Also watching belts while drink is amzing
smoky bison
Wait what?
indigo vigil
You can power 20 gens with each of those lines, so you have enough coal for 100 gens there.
Have fun getting water to all of that.
indigo vigil
5 belts of 300 coal/min is 1500 coal/min. Each generator consumes, at max load, 15 coal/min. 1500/15=100
spark dove
Oh, cool I thought it was 45 coal/min
indigo vigil
Nah, it's 45 water/min per generator
torpid robin
Something else seems off for belts . What tier belts do you have ? Surely you aren’t sitting on mk4 at that point ?
indigo vigil
It depends on how you want to build it, but put simply, you need 3 water extractors for every 8 generators.
torpid robin
Arrh right
Well I mean . You get coal power pretty early . So just surprised me you are sitting in mk4 and doing a coal plant that big . But then I was a little confused about the 300. .but as you said you balanced it down to that
spark dove
@torpid robin ahh yeah I'm just going by what I need, i got trains then needed more power, then started working on a Iron Processing plant needed power again, so I thought screw it and gathered all the coal I could find for a big plant until I'm ready for fuel
And i have 2 pure coal lines saved for steel
And cool I have most of the water already sorted I have 16 lines ready for the powerplant
glacial hemlock
coal power, fuel power and turbofuel are just the stepping stones for nuclear power. You don't have to invest too much for the low tech power setup.
dusky quail
yea the game doesn't really reward building the perfect setup in the early-mid stages
just get what you need to unlock new stuff
safe badger
to confirm, water consumption per min increases when overclocking coal & power plant generators?
safe badger
ye i know that, i was just curios about the math behind it on how its calculated.. took about a day, worked it out 😉
glacial hemlock
why you want to overclock any power generator? lol
upbeat tide
The resource cost for OCing a power gen doesnt outweigh the added production
safe badger
so why would they add this in as a feature? if its a waste?
warped sorrel
so how many refineries can a pure oil node support? The math is so confusing on the wiki
wind spade
depends what are you making in the refineries 🙂
warped sorrel
ugh so the plastics and rubber are 3 little tubes of oil? but then the oil extractor is in m3...how many m3 in a little tube? 50 each?
warped sorrel
I know but it says it needs 3
wind spade
well then you need 3m3
fierce ruin
3 what?
warped sorrel
so with a flow rate of 600 m3, that would mean the node supports 200 refineries? seems nuts
wind spade
there's no way to get 600m3 flow rate
wind spade
also, if you need 3, I assume it's per recipe, not per minute
swift sorrel
each refinery takes 30m3/min (for plastic/rubber), so theoretically a pure node oc to 125% for 300m3/min should support 10 refineries. But as you can see by my posts yesterday there is something screwy going on and the pipeline doesn't always work right
warped sorrel
okay thank you @swift sorrel 30m3 makes more sense than 3m3. No clue why they use m3 units in the extractor but then just "3 oil" in the refineries
swift sorrel
it will show 30m3 when you select the recipe in the refinery, the 3 you are seeing is just a ratio for 1 run, not a per minute number
safe badger
i think the node modifiers a dated or wrong for oil.. because all the node modifiers are calculated by dividing them by 60
so instead from 0.5, 1, 2 it should be 1, 2, 4 for the modifiers right?
proven lark
But it makes sense for normal to be modifier 1x, so dividing by 120 makes more sense, right?
wind spade
They seem correct 🤔
glacial hemlock
@safe badger for oil extractor, it is based on 120. For miner, it is either 60, 120 or 240. So the wiki is correct
wind spade
Ore nodes have a base extraction rate of 1
Oil nodes have 2
That's items per second
glacial hemlock
True. Water and Oil are always extracted at 2m3 (2 meter cube) at 1 'cycle' which is a second
safe badger
i based my initial calculation from the miner & thought it applied to all but it didn't my bad
full dust
If i overclock a constructer does that mean it needs more items per minute?
empty hemlock
yes, if it crafts faster it needs more items to not stop crafting
full dust
ok ty
warm summit
Has anyone done size calculations per building? LIke "Founderies are Six by Eight foundations large"?
upbeat tide
Foundries need 12m clearance to put a floor above them, 3 walls high
warm summit
That was just an example, but thank you for answering.
wind spade
@full dust yes, it needs more items, but it also needs way more energy. It's better to build more constructors rather than OC them
upbeat tide
3 walls, 12m - smelter, foundry, constructor, assembler, biofuel burner
4 walls, 16m - manufacturer
7 walls, 28m - awesome sink, fuel generator
8 walls, 32m - refinery
9 walls, 36m - coal gen
13 walls, 52m - nuclear plant
@warm summit
wispy patrol
@warm summit Usually you can find the size of any building in carresponding Satisfactory-Wiki-Articles
warm summit
Ah, true. I neglected to read through that sidebar. Thanks for pointing that out.
wispy patrol
You´re Welcome
upbeat tide
I personally rarely use the wiki, but hope either way your good 🙂
vivid spoke
I encountered a really weird issue right now, my internet cut out and in offline mode I spawned at the HUB with all my inventory gone, also no chest where i was standing when saving. now my internet is back and reloading the save file i spawn normally alive with all my inventory
also when saving in the "bugged" state the new saves also put me at the hub without inventory
upbeat tide
Find your old body and well...uum...exterminate!...your clone
Its a bug yea but happens when the game goes offline
wispy patrol
It appears when the game "fail to create an online session" when launching (i think its called that...)
You can solve that with a simple restart (works for me everytime)
upbeat tide
There was only one instance where even a restart didnt fix, that was an update to experimental branch around a month ago tho.
wispy patrol
I believe that a change in the .ini game settings fixed it... a good friend of mine solved it that waz
spark dove
Maybe I'm stupid but a 300 iron/min belt splits evenly into 6 plate constructors and 10 rod constructors? Or is my math off?
upbeat tide
Im gonna guess you would use a similar formula for trains. Take the round trip time and add the time it takes for the load and unload animation.
fierce ruin
okay
glacial hemlock
speed of trucks can varies between 0 and infinity
if the truck ragdoll and don't want to get up, it is 0. If you see a truck suddenly teleports, it is infinity.
upbeat tide
I thought trucks were more behaved on foundation roads?
oblique hollow
normal travel speed 75 km/h
upbeat tide
Honestly have not used them in a long time
glacial hemlock
i never used them. Or I should said, i have only built a truck station once, but never automated a wheeled vehicle to transport items
wispy patrol
Me too... i started from the beginning with conveyor Belts - its just more reliable to me
glacial hemlock
i still recommend setting up trains later on when the factory grew large. Trade complexity for CPU performance.
fierce ruin
where I find a truck really handy is if I just want one thing somewhere else, a medium distance, and I don't really want much of that thing. Refined quartz for oscillators is a good example. Until you're mass producing em to make radio control units, you'll just never need enough for it to be a problem there's ultimately one truck lugging the quartz around.
shy mason
never got into trucks, used tractors all the time if one of the nodes in question has either oil or coal for fuel until trains are unlocked ( so at least first 30 hours of gameplay). Truck stations are limited to one belt, so a single station can't support full transport of multiple miners, so not ideal for mega builds. Could try multiple vehicle stations, but the pathing is going to be more complicated with collisions on.
You need to be on top of your power supply though, power outage for a minute or two when the tractor is refueling will have the tractor die midway of its commute with no notification, and hard to notice until you unlock the quartz map feature
sudden saffron
well, that's my plan for tomorrow: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/ce8icx/stackable_munitions_factory_floor_plan/ anyone got one better ? (I didn't find an other)
glacial hemlock
Thats a lot of efforts in there
upbeat tide
That post is...kinda old
Make sure its viable before putting the effort in
sudden saffron
I'm too lazy to do the math, I noticed it was an old post but it seems ok-ish mostly
smoky bison
How many coal gens on 1 max pipe?
upbeat tide
Other way is to extend that second pipe to the very end
But if you do not want to mess with that than one water pipe can support 6.66 coal gens
smoky bison
Tnx (:
dusky quail
are you using conveyor belt mk 1?
mk 1 has a limit of 60, mk 2 120
if you're on mk2, your miner's maximum output is 120
yea but your conveyor belt mk 2 limits it to 120
mk 3 is great, super cheap once you get it
exotic swallow
he'll need more iron plates and screws though for the reinforced iron plates lol
fierce ruin
Hi
Just saw you where talking about iron plate?
15 reinforced iron plate per second
fierce ruin
there are 3 types of players
15/s would only be 900/m, that's just 60 assemblers if you do bolted iron plates
I could see using that much RIP if you wanted to do large scale reinforced heavy frames, easy
I've got 56 assemblers each making rotors (steel rotors) and stators (default recipe) so 28 can make motors (default)
how many rotors per min do the 56 make?
5/m each for stators and steel rotors cuz the motor makers consume 10/m each, so 2x as many stator and rotor makers as motor makers
the reason to do steel rotors alt recipe is cuz that way 1. you're making rotors 5/m to match your stators and half motors, instead of the other options of 4/m and 11.25/m that don't work great with the 10/m needed for motors the way 5/m for steel rotors does, also steel rotors is just pipes + wire... same as stators. So pipes and wires go in, motors come out, comparatively little muss or fuss vs. having rods and screws in the mix too.
upbeat tide
Id rather use stitched iron plates over bolted.
Combined with iron wire, ironiclly uses less iron ingots in total
900/min RIP
4775.74 iron ore, 769.23 coal, and 2723 water -> bolted iron plate, using pure iron ingot, steel screw, and solid steel ingot -> 60 assemblers, 348 constructors, 20 foundry, 137 refinery
4212 iron ore, 2410 water -> stitched iron plate using iron wire -> 160 assemblers, 417 constructors, 121 refineries
Honestly interesting tradeoffs
fierce ruin
steel screw seems like a bad deal. You don't even get more screws per iron do you?
upbeat tide
Err one sec
fierce ruin
5/m steel is 20/m iron so 13 screws per iron, 4 per iron with casted
upbeat tide
You will need 6381 iron ore for casted screw instead of steel screw
fierce ruin
so I guess it is a better deal but depends on if you think 1 coal is worth ~3 iron
upbeat tide
Balancing that screw need will be a killa tho
Comparing the three systems above
dim thicket
That's actually a genius way to value ores - in terms of iron
upbeat tide
Gonna see what the other wire alts do to the system
Honestly, not as bad as I woulda thought
Seriously cuts down iron use, but you will need 400 caterium a min
And if you just use basic wire recipe, copper use is 1200 a min
Caterium wire alt shouldnt exist imo
So not gonna bother showing that one, its highly inefficient.
Anyway, done rambling about setup differences.
Dinner time
fierce ruin
does the casted screw give you more screws per ingot?
upbeat tide
No, its parity to standard
fierce ruin
oh it just removes a step
upbeat tide
Yup
fierce ruin
i guess that's worth it bcs u save power and space
save power and space, and 50/m per is more convenient for some recipes than 40/m
like if I want 250/m for bolted plates, that fits way easier as 5x constructors doing casted than 6.25 for making em outta rods, before we get into the difference in constructors/power/etc
upbeat tide
And like above, when dealing with multiple hundreds of constructors, makes a difference.
glacial hemlock
For this, i will use iron wire.
fierce ruin
iron wire is good. Shoves copper to being only for copper sheets and alclad sheets
and alloying with iron to make more iron, of course
turns out there's a lotta iron on the map
upbeat tide
You dont need to use iron alloy if you have pure iron
fierce ruin
sometimes there's handy water, sometimes there's handy copper
upbeat tide
True
fierce ruin
s'like earlier someone else was trash talking compacted steel, and I mean sure sulfur's otherwise precious but sometimes you need more steel and there it is, same as needing more power and making it into turbofuel
fierce ruin
sure, and in fact I am, but sometimes that sulfur's near oil and good for that
sometimes it ain't, y'know?
although I only need 1200 sulfur for my current compacted fuel plan, and that's north coast. You doing all oil at once or what? Cuz north coast is most of the oil and I OC'd it pretty hard to get 2700
course I ain't going super aggressive on getting the most fuel outta oil and taking 1200 fuel to mix
what's the current pro move? go all heavy residue and mix with packaged water?
fresh elm
that's what I'm doing
use the heavy oil residue recipe
with the runoff I'm making fabric
fierce ruin
it makes a LOT of residue
fresh elm
sure
upbeat tide
Yes
fresh elm
300 oil will just about fully tap 600 compacted coal
upbeat tide
Yes
fresh elm
which is makes it pretty ideal to use that way
fierce ruin
I should probs get into theorycrafting power cuz I'm using 20gw
and throwing "a lot of fuel" at the problem mostly postponed matters
upbeat tide
My main turbo build
fierce ruin
yeah the packaged diluted heavy fuel thing is sick
upbeat tide
I send the leftover sulfur into a black powder array
fierce ruin
shit makes so much fuel
upbeat tide
My rubber and plastic plant uses 3200 fuel a min
fierce ruin
cuz going heavy residue already gives you more, and then the mix with water, lol
upbeat tide
fierce ruin
the excess fuel is what makes the recycled recipes with fuel and rubber/plastic to make plastic/rubber broke
upbeat tide
Its like the pure alts but on a more complex scale
exotic swallow
it's a far more complex recipie so needs the payoff to compensate
exotic swallow
yeh i'll be starting mine this weekend at the gold coast oil nodes
fierce ruin
I dunno, I just feel it's an issue for game theory if I"m staring at a refinery and wanna make plastic and "make plastic" doesn't make the most plastic, actually
clearly I should've made it all into heavy residue and polymer and made gasoline for no reason, as well as rubber, first!
fresh elm
except that still is keeping in line with the way the rest of the game goes
use alternate recipes you discover in creative ways to eek out more stuff from your available resources
feels right in line with the rest of the mechanics to me
making the most quickwire shouldn't involve combining water and caterium ore and copper to make it
(in your same scenario)
upbeat tide
Also the process requires 4 alternate recipes to even work
fresh elm
this is not the "intended scenario" for most players
upbeat tide
Techniclly you can do it with just recycled rubber and plastic, but your yields are tiny
fresh elm
just most of the people playing right now have sunk a ton of time into it and we are not the average player
upbeat tide
True, the Pareto Principle is strong in this community
fresh elm
actually, you can make a single oil fill a 480 of both plastic and rubber
that's pretty slick, tbh
upbeat tide
Honestly these rubber and plastic alt systems become necessary too. Lets say you want to make 60 turbomotors and super computers for example, your gonna need alot of plastic and rubber.
fresh elm
but once again, that's only if you want to do big production
most people will play and never do that
vivid spoke
So i just made a setup to tripple my oil into rubber and plastic, but for 360 oil/min I literally needed 3GW xD
is it even worth making an efficient setup in terms of resource when in turn you'll need Oil to produce the power to actually supply it xD
so far i'm only using compacted coal, no fuel generators yet
Sitting at about 10GW
wispy patrol
It is worth!
vivid spoke
For turbo fuel, just looking at the numbers without doing the math yet the most efficient seems to oil->hor->fuel and then use the Compacted coal+fuel
Anyone did the math to substract power cost for component fabrication?
wispy patrol
I didnt to the math in terms of Power but the possible amount of Plastic-/Rubber-Outcome. When you play a little bit around with Polymer Resin, Fuel and HOR its more efficient to use the Oil to make Rubber and Plastic and than the HOR for Fuel
vivid spoke
ah the wiki actually has the calculations done ^^
Well at least i know i didn't fk up and my numbers are correct
glacial hemlock
yeah, using 3 GW to produce 21 GW, so you still have about 18 GW net gain
all from 300m3 of oil (and some coal, sulfur and water)
upbeat tide
Did the math for my 1333.33 a min turbofuel facility.
It has 180 refineries and 44 assemblers. Some of those are underclocked, so the real power total will be slightly less than this ->6060MW
My gens are divided into 6 groups: 4x 55.55 and 2x 37. Combined makes 44430MW. Net power income of 38370MW.
I did not count pipeline pumps or the two oil pumps, mostly because I do not remember how many pumps I used, or how much an OC’d oil pump uses power wise
Appx, 14% of power produced is used to supply this system
polar sleet
@wispy patrol does it though? alt:HOR used to make fuel then recycled generates more rubber and plastic than the default recipes, even without using the diluted fuel alt that gives you even more. also, any power lost from using alt recipes is tiny compared to the extra power you can produce from the saving in oil costs.
unless your talking about the default HOR recipe, then yeah maybe.
upbeat tide
@polar sleet this is an extreme example, but you can still balance it out properly
polar sleet
yeah I'm aware, that's the version i was referring to as being most efficient
upbeat tide
Ooh misread
polar sleet
looking it over alt:HOR + diluted packaged fuel are essential to maximizing any oil based product production
upbeat tide
Yup, for both fuel and plastic/rubber
polar sleet
yeah trying to get my hands on alt:HOR but i keep getting other recipes instead
upbeat tide
Even if you want to make petro coke for steel its insane.
My impure node is gonna do that and it will make 600 petro coke a min as well as 20 extra plastic and rubber
fierce ruin
you can use petro coke for steel?
upbeat tide
Yup.
polar sleet
hmm
upbeat tide
polar sleet
is it because the power loss can be ofset by using saved coal for turbo fuel?
upbeat tide
Its just a useful alternate
And I only have one impure oil node so not easy to combine with another
fierce ruin
are there any alt recipes that are not worth using in any situation?
fierce ruin
oh nice
upbeat tide
The biocoal alts are kinda useless too
vivid spoke
is there a way to make hypertube launchers more reliable? i'm simply using like 10 in a row to boost myself, but sometime i get lags while inside and some tubes accelerate multiple times, leading to me getting throw to high and die...
It happens at least 25%
upbeat tide
I use launchers and point them into a hypertube pipeline so to speak to avoid that.
Costly, pain to build tho
vivid spoke
so instead of launching into air and using jetpack you build a tube to where you wanna go? or did i missunderstnad?
upbeat tide
Yea build the tube
And the launcher points directly into it
So you get the speed benefit but contained
vivid spoke
ye i want to avoid that one though 😛
i was thinking about it, but i rather just save+reload instead of going through that hassle ^^
woeful skiff
I've never had lag problems with a launcher unless I jump in right when it's about to autosave.
Another cause of lag spikes though is chunk loading, maybe you built the launcher on a chunk boundary?
vivid spoke
any way to check that?
I ahve 3 launchers, 2 of them have this issue, one of them i built a roof to stop upward acceleration, so i'm only going faster, not higher ^^
woeful skiff
I don't think anybody has mapped out exactly how big the chunks are or where the boundaries are. (Also, it was mentioned on a stream a month or so back that they were looking into tweaking some of that to address the lag when loading -- but they didn't go into any details at all)
polar sleet
oh wow, interesting. apparenting using coke for steel increases the iron cost by 11.25% but does save you oil in regards to power costs (assuming you are using any of it for power.) as well as consuming no coal.
so if you have too much steel but need more power, coke seems to be the solution
woeful skiff
In the hanburger interview they caught a bit of her working on stuff where you could see the map tiles, but I don't know if anyone's done anything with that info, or if it has changed since then.
fierce ruin
pure aluminum owns
losing 25% of ingots is a small price to pay for "no quartz needed at all"
upbeat tide
Total disagree, but to each their own
fierce ruin
imho the worst recipes are the ones that add in oil to stuff for limited gain. Like making iron plates with iron + plastic instead of just iron. I mean yeah you get more but plastic's decidedly harder to come by than "more iron"
dusky quail
alt recipes are often a balance of efficiency vs speed vs resources vs complexity
idle vigil
only case might be if you're building things in a location with a whole lot of oil (like the north coast) and you have way more oil than iron in that particular location.
Some are always an improvement on efficiency, others seem to suit a particular niche.
cedar mica
There is stuff like Big fuel plants, where you have the rubber and such, as a byproduct. Those wierd alts, would be a way to deal with it
fresh elm
@fierce ruin really those recipes are only intended for when you've got limited resources and happen to have byproducts from something else you're doing
probably someone at CSS said "I want to make N <item> and I have X,Y,Z resources available in this part of the map. how can I do that"
idle vigil
One of my favourite things is finding those perfect scenarios, yeah
fresh elm
I start every end production line with a starting resource cap
so sometimes I end up using weird recipes to accomplish things
idle vigil
Yeah, I spend a lot of time rejigging recipes to maximize the output of a factory with a set number of nodes available. That kind of thing won't be apparent if you're a megabase builder though
fresh elm
this was all because I wanted to trickle a few resources into some bins
so the resources were the constraint I was working with, not the end output rate
Most of the calculator tools are designed to work the other way, so you say "I want to make 50 supercomputers a minute what do I need for this" - for me, I prefer the other way "I want to make supercomputers, let's say I want to spend 600 oil on this project, what can I get"
for me, I consider the rationing of the resources that are more limited on the map to be the goal
(I will go out of my way to spam iron into replacing basically anything)
if it took me 100 MW of power to turn iron into quickwire, I would probably do it
or aluminum
any time you can replace something uncommon (sulfur, bauxite, uranium, oil, quartz) with anything else, it is super win
sacred blade
What else do you turn iron into besides extra copper?
fresh elm
it depends on the recipe you're using
reduce the amount of anything else you're using, increase amount of iron you're using
you can do this by just choosing certain recipes
for example, a lot of people love steel screws
but iron >>> coal, so I will pick the iron ingot->screw recipe almost every time
fierce ruin
same
sacred blade
Okay
fresh elm
now, I said ALMOST - because any time I make motors I still use the steel pipes recipe for rotors
because that just makes motors so freaking easy
and I mean, I just cannot resist that one.
fierce ruin
again, same
fresh elm
And for the record, I pick recipes and stuff like this, but still do the megabase style
fierce ruin
plus it's different from "use more coal in a thing that already required coal" vs "introduce coal into something that previously required none"
fresh elm
Right!
I will pay the premium sometimes for super convenience like that
and because stators aren't really used for anything, you can very very easily set up a line to fill bins with motors, stators (which really you'll just shred) and wire
and this can be done with mk2 miners and mk4 belts easily
sacred blade
Neat
idle vigil
is that just a text file?
fierce ruin
you can also play with that some to produce less motors/stators, but also excess rotors and more wire if you want
fresh elm
@idle vigil yeah, I've always kept ledgers like this in engineering
old habits die hard
idle vigil
I have mine on a pad of grid paper from work 🙂
fierce ruin
and you can do iron wire to cut copper out entirely
fierce ruin
sure, just saying the same idea can work somewhere with no copper but more iron
fresh elm
ahh yeah that's true 🙂
you'd prob have more wire too if you used iron wire
but I don't need wire that's just shredding
fierce ruin
the various alloy alts also come in handy there. 2 iron ore + 2 copper ore = 5 iron ingots can be pretty handy in shoving wire math towards iron wire too
sacred blade
Are you better off shredding excess intermediate’s or limiting production speed to prevent excess?
fresh elm
it will vary
I do both, depending on what I'm doing
as you start consuming higher rates, I built a nice overflow buffer system to make sure I don't shred more than I can actually afford to
one sec, I'll take a pic, but I have to get to the other side of the world first
bless travel pipes
idle vigil
After a certain point I don't need the 3 points from a wire or whatever, it's not worth the trouble and power consumption. I just reduce production if it's significant, and sink the end product if I'm not using it all
fresh elm
particularly as you build re-feeder systems
like these recycled rubber and plastic ones in particular that people are making
it can be easy to sink faster than you really want to
sacred blade
You could create a load balancer to limit sinking to only 20%, for example, pretty easily though
But that makes sense
fresh elm
so what I ended up doing was putting a self-loop back
so instead of having any of the system pause for a moment, there's always a flow control valve
and that's managed by an overflow splitter (programmable splitter set to release pressure to the overflow)
note in this picture it has actually kicked an item out to the shredder
this is really going to be important when you're using the output of one item to feed another stage of your process, and it has multiple outputs
because if you're relying on the fact that rubber has some place to go because you're using a byproduct of creating it (to, say, make fuel or whatnot)
then you can't let that line ever stop running, or you will break stuff
this ensures that you always have enough items to fill the belt, that the jam occurs on the refeed side, and that you never have an incident where your materials clog and stop part of your system
notice I'm actually using a mk4 belt to refeed instead of mk5 also
idle vigil
why not just put an overflow at the end of the line?
fresh elm
that is the end of the line.
idle vigil
what does the refeeding do though
fresh elm
and because you don't know when you'll need those materials and you can't guarantee the production rate before
oh this is when you are using the recycled oil stuff
so you are outputting rubber to make plastic
but not enough rubber to make all the plastic
so you need rubber from stage 3 to go back in
in order to make enough plastic to eventually ramp your production over 1k
so you need to "re-feed" the system
as it will ramp up to proper speed instead of start at full speed. this shortcuts that ramp time by a factor of about 50
(as you're never going to pause any portion of your system to let any other part speed up)
idle vigil
is there a schematic for the general setup? I haven't done any recycling setups
fresh elm
one sec
sacred blade
Same
sacred blade
Yikes
fresh elm
look, you asked what it was for, I answered 😉
just following this diagram won't work, as it oversimplifies how fluids work by a lot
you'll need to have mastered overflow pipes, etc too
sacred blade
Mastered overflow pipes? I’m still new with fluids (tier 4ish)
fresh elm
pipes behave differently depending on which way you connect them
(so, the pipe junctions have diff functions vertical, horizontal, and angled)
sacred blade
Okay. I should probably go learn more about that. Thanks for letting me know
fresh elm
it will make sense if you try to imagine the fluid moving through it
if the connector is down, fluid (depending on the flow rate) will tend to fall straight down and fill that void first
if the pipe fills completely, leftover goes out the top
(and requires negative head lift to do so)
idle vigil
yeah it's intuitive, water flows downhill rather than uphill, so it's not like a splitter that divides things evenly necessarily
fresh elm
exactly
fresh elm
and you will get varied behavior depending on what sort of connection you make
you just can't treat it like a manifold splitter
which is why my first fluid systems were all garbage
idle vigil
you can have an overflow system that works by literally overflowing a pipe when it fills up, and gets divrted somewhere else
fresh elm
and the type of connection you make with your pipes, how you use pumps, etc - all make a difference
the velocity of the fluid through the pipe means more will move over the hole if it's going faster
also, fluid has no direction unless you provide it
so it is just as likely to slide back downhill without a pump there
(to act as a one-way gate)
sacred blade
This game gets more and more complicated every time I get on the discord 😉
fresh elm
well, that's the beauty of satisfactory. there's as much depth to it as you want to go find. it can be simple if you want to keep it simple, or it can be crazy if you want to make it crazy
hollow cape
yooo so i got a problem with the freight platform
weve checked everything, the consumption and cap, i even lined it up with the freight car perfectly and it still wouldnt work
con = 75mw // cap = 300mw
hollow cape
first we tried the trainstation and then the freight platform
didnt work out
so we tried to put a rail way between that
upbeat tide
Train station needs to be connected to freight platforms
idle vigil
you need both a station and a platform, maybe check out a youtube tutorial
hollow cape
uhm, connect with what?
upbeat tide
Back to back
upbeat tide
You dont need wires
hollow cape
yeah it is connected back to back
upbeat tide
The railway is your wire
hollow cape
wait, is the freight platform only for autopilot
idle vigil
the train engine stops at the station, the cars need to have a platform. they're both needed
definitely check out a youtube video, it will be easier than trying to type it all out
hollow cape
oh okay thank you guys ^^
safe badger
regarding items per min.. EG to make 45 iron ingots per/min wouldn't you be just fine with 1 smelter? 45 in & 45 out?
because all the calculators i use, suggest to use 2 smelters, 30 in 1 line & 15 in the other line.. i don't understand the logic in that. is there some limitation i am missing? (even if its a pure node & fast belt)
i'm trying to incorporate Belt speeds & X amount of Machine types required based on X product per a min in my spreadsheet. but i just don't get the logic.
fresh elm
the smelter only takes 30 by default
hence all the splitters and mergers
you can add shards, but it does not scale power linearly either in production of power or consumption of power
safe badger
ah ok thx... clockspeed manages max input
now i just need to know much each % effects the input per a 1 percent bases... (so i can auto-calc from 1-250)
hmm 0.3? percent...
since every 50% the slot changes by 15
wind spade
OC speed changes the production speed linearly
Though it's better to build more machines than to overclock
safe badger
i know but i want to be able to do the math for any situation regardless what is best.
wind spade
150% OC means 150% production speed
If you need 4.8x smelter, then build 5 smelters and underclock the last one to 80%
As long as you have items/min you need, the math is simple
fresh elm
right it is power that is not linear
sorry if I was unclear
I meant production of power (i.e. sharding a power plant) or consumption (sharding a constructor)
safe badger
i've already worked out the mess with power.. regarding clock speeds (i've rounded them)
although i'm still confused with the math on working out the how much each clock percentage effects max input based on every recipe per machine.
i know its 0.3 for iron ingots but it changes say you want to make A.I. Limiter's at an Assembler
the multiplier changes based on the recipe for the clock speed..
how are they working these numbers out in the wiki...
to get the max input = clockspeed
? multiplier value = 1% clock speed (for every part/recipe)
dim thicket
To quote Greeny,
150% OC means 150% production speed
wispy patrol
I hope i understand your question right: 150% OC means it makes 150% of the chosen Item per minute - so when the Assembler is set at 150% you need 150 Quickwire to make the same Amount of A.I. Limiters as if it would make at 100%
same amount per minute of course...
dim thicket
A machine makes 5 AI limiters.
When OC'd to 150%, it now makes 1.5×5 = 7.5 AI limiters
dim thicket
0.33
% really means "per 100" and 33% is just another way to write 0.33
So if you underclock to 33%, you're going to make 0.33×5 = 1.66 AI limiters
safe badger
ah ok, but in all my math i use how much it takes to make 1 of that recipe & then calc per min on top
dim thicket
Okay
safe badger
k thx hopefully i can turn this into a formula...
dim thicket
Are you looking for something?
Really it's just
Amount produced = (Produced at 100%)(Overclock percent)/100
safe badger
i'm trying to integrate it in this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aPHm8kB6bUI2V9nsT0adWyKpweJTNoav5Iu7LNm1Pso/edit
so depending on the clock speed set & how many products are being made per a min i can list next to the machine column how many machines of that type will be required to make that product. & setting the clock speed for those machines will change amount of machine's required to make the product at X amount.
i just want to be able to automate all the math in an excel sheet.
idle vigil
So figure out the number of machines you'd need at 100%
then divide by the overclock ratio
Say I want to make 100 of something and one machine outputs 20
100/20=5 at 100%
If I changed the OC number to 125%, 5/1.25=4
although I'm not sure why you'd want to start with an OC number, but it works any way you approach it
safe badger
this is what i was trying to achieve the bottom-up ver
Top-Down Approach - Uses Product Amount
slot value @100% is ingredient amount @100%
ingredient amount @100% = ingredient amount of original recipe to make 1 of. X Time Multiplier
Time Multiplier = 60/original recipe time to make 1 of.
Example:
Caterium Ingot, 1 Product takes 3 Caterium ore, takes 4 seconds
60/4 = 15 Time Multiplier
3 X 15 = 15 Caterium ore Per/Min - 15 Slots
to make 130 Caterium Ingot
@100% Clock
130/15 = 8.66 Machines
@150% Clock
8.66 / (150/100) = 5.77 machines
Bottom-Up Approach - Uses Ingredient Amount
Machines = Total Ingredient Amount / Slots
Slots = 1% Of Ingredient Amount @100% X Clock Speed
Caterium Ore - 390 Ore Per/Min Makes 130 Ingot Per/Min
100% Clock
(1/100) x 45 = 0.45
0.45 x 100 Clock = 45 slots
390/45 = 8.66 machines
150% Clock
(1/100) x 45 = 0.45
0.45 x 150 Clock = 67.5 slots
390/67.5 = 5.77 machines
i hope i'm not missing anything, this applies to all the machine yes? slots are restricted per recipe @100% Speed?
dusky quail
oh man what you just wrote there gave me analysis paralysis since I started playing this game
safe badger
i've barely played the game my self... i feel like i wont be happy till i am able to calculate an entire factory's requirements from scratch. so essentially manually have all the formula's to what all those WebUI Calculators auto do for you..
wind spade
@safe badger well, I'm author of one of the WebUI calculators and I can tell you that you'll have hard time doing it in excel, most likely close to impossible
safe badger
the layout i'm going for is per recipe so take Fuel Rods for example i would only include the resource requirements that make the Fuel Rod not the dependencies that make the resource requirements.
its modular this way.. - would be overkill to try & auto-calc all the dependencies in one go
but since i have all the recipes available for selection you can just go down the tree for each dependency
upbeat tide
I have only used excel to model static comparisons, such as recipe vs its alts to see what each would do at a given input. Steel for example.
wind spade
the issue with your approach is that in some production lines you use different recipes for one product, one product for different recipes, etc.
and the more serious issue is - you have loops
you won't be able to calculate loops with your modular approach
that's why you essentially need to calculate everything in one go
upbeat tide
Alclad is a great example for that, loops
wind spade
not only that
there's the plastic-rubber loop as well which seems to be more efficient than other ways
upbeat tide
Anything oil comes to mind too
Like the recycled rubber/plastic loops, not plesant to calculate. Or even build ingame.
wind spade
and also, don't take this as me hating your idea or trying to put it down. I've been there before. I've made my spreadsheet. I've made several versions of the tool. I've spent WAY more time on this than you did. I'm just trying to help you, offer you my expertise and help you to build whatever you're building in a way that won't throw sticks under your feet
@safe badger
upbeat tide
And at another note you said you have barely played the game. I suggest that you play at least one playthrough. There is a difference between using any calculation tool and knowing how to implimentnit ingame.
Hope that makes sense.
Such as I could stare at a calculator all day that tells me how to make alclad. Will I fully understand it until I actually do it? No.
safe badger
i do go into the game via creative & slot in resources to check if = what the calc predicted...
wind spade
that's nice, but you'll still run into issues working with loops or multiple recipes per product
and you can beleive me, because I've run into the same issues you are having right now (or you will have in the future)
safe badger
- what about mod supported recipes? that another thing that most calcs don't have.. i was going to go through every mod & port over all the recipes from them
wind spade
@safe badger if you can't make base game recipes work, there's no way you can make mod recipes work
and unless you figure out some good way to make the base game recipes work (which would most likely involve not using excel and using some high level math as I do), then you won't be able to make base recipes work
I've thought about mod support as well, but it's super hard and you need a reliable source of information. Handpicking it isn't reliable btw
upbeat tide
You would have to be in communication with the mod author as well. I have seen a few like production+ change heavily a few times now.
warped sorrel
so is there a Sink meta? How many hours to you need to leave the game on to get the golden nut statue?
wind spade
Depends on how many items you feed into the sink
warped sorrel
well yeah duh hence asking if there's a meta
glacial hemlock
if you can produce 150 Turbo motors / min, then getting golden nuts should be within 24 hours
warped sorrel
yowza
exotic rover
@fresh elm Your explanations are very helpful.
I'm trying to evolve past the caveman approach to everything
fresh elm
thank you
exotic rover
The main thing holding me back is not having the alts - I kind of want to Columbus how to do it all
fresh elm
you can do a lot before you have them all
a lot of the basics you will probably not change for a long time
iron plates, iron rods, concrete
exotic rover
Right. I play on three different saves, mine and two friends, and we all have different alts unlocked, so me knowing there are ones out there but not having them is torture
fresh elm
you're more likely to expand that than to replace it - I don't find adding water to iron or concrete particularly useful, and I have a mega factory
Ah, I see 🙂
exotic rover
Really? Do you not run into ore bottlenecks?
fresh elm
for iron? There's so much iron on the map...
it's really difficult to run out
limestone is basically littered everywhere also
exotic rover
Yes that's true. I really just need to expand
fresh elm
that being said, I built my base on top of 100 pipes of water
exotic rover
I'm set up in the lake in the SE corner of the map so I have ore, for now
fresh elm
cuz you never know what I'll want to do in the future
fresh elm
so, my main base is the crater in the grasslands with the lake in it
my ground floor is the top
I have another one that is most of the southeast lake
another one that is a huge chunk of the northeast, and one I'm moving from the northwest to being off a cliff
exotic rover
Do you try to build super compact or spread out some?
fresh elm
I build massive.
I built several megafactories
I have torn two down and I'm halfway done rebuilding them now
exotic rover
I think Reworking is my favorite part
fresh elm
It's nice, especially since every time I rip apart and start part over it's because I've learned a whole heck of a lot about how I want to do it since last time
exotic rover
I'm currently reworking mine after palying on my friend's server for the last week
It's a long slow process working alone
fresh elm
but very satisfying
green hearth
indeed it is slow as a turtle so I know how that feels an plus I have been playing solo for a while so yeah it will take a lot of time to get stuff done that needs doing that is for sure.
fresh elm
Today I decided I wanted to trickle in all the bin-able oil products into my storage area, and so I set about doing that, and now I'm just watching 150 oil turn into all sorts of little things from empty containers to packaged heavy oil residue to packaged turbofuel, etc
since I use all the various items to help label travel pipes, etc - I figure why not just have them available whenever - you never know when something will be useful 😉
fresh elm
that, I started doing that, for breakers, for my travel pipes, etc
placing down an item basically showing you what you're doing
for example, unplugging that power cord next to the concrete will turn off concrete production
etc
exotic rover
That is genius
fresh elm
I stole the breaker idea from an old kibitz video - I'm not even sure he does it
but now I do it for everything
fresh elm
I don't really need to worry about power consumption right now - but when tier 8 comes out who knows what power I'll wish I had
glacial hemlock
I have enough power for my entire factory to run at 6x power.
fresh elm
sure, but that doesn't mean there won't be some crazy new building that takes 200 GW / building
who knows?
I've got an extra 300+ GW of power right now, but that doesn't mean I don't htink I might not wish I had more later
exotic rover
Two kinds of people lol
fresh elm
and just because I have a ton of power it doesn't mean I skip calculating how much power each of my breakers uses
exotic rover
I'd pay about 200GW for a Vertical splitter
glacial hemlock
me2
sudden saffron
I'd pay about 200GW for a Vertical splitter
@exotic rover what would be the point as building are fed horizontally anyway ? unless you mean fluid splitter ? junction+pump and off you go ?
glacial hemlock
Vertical splitter can make multistorey buildings much more easier to manage
warm wren
I'm going to have to transport my caterium by train 
I'm trying to decide if transporting the ore, the bars, or the wire would be best.
glacial hemlock
Ingots
upbeat tide
Ingots, definately ingots. If you have fused quickwire alt, transport in your copper ingots as well
wind spade
Transport final products, make stuff where nodes are
upbeat tide
Issue is your gonna need bigger trains for quickwire, much bigger
My supercomputer and turbomotors plan will need noeth of 15k quickwire for example for the various subsections.
valid spoke
Hi guys I'm new here so i found myself in a big web factory after 30 hours of gameplay
any idea how to do the math for a large factory?
a neat one xD
minor sphinx
Just work out your inputs and go from there. Or you can use online production planners
valid spoke
I mean i don't know how to get the maximum output out of that
I find that it's slow for items like computer
i mean veryyyy slow
minor sphinx
All factory parts show their input and output for whatever they're producing, and you can under/overclock so that you get the perfect amount you need. Load balancing also helps with things like computers
glacial hemlock
@valid spoke there is absolutely no way to create a 'neat' factory, so just embrace the spaghetti.
glacial hemlock
i thought cooking the spaghetti is what makes the most famous streamer?
valid spoke
nope it's eating the spaghetti what makes the most famous streamer
glacial hemlock
i see.
valid spoke
any ideas about how to build foundations in rapid way
fierce ruin
the way to make a neat factory is to hide the spaghetti in a basement
glacial hemlock
To build foundation rapidly, remove the blade runner then run forward to build the first row
Then equip back blade runner, aim at near the edge of existing foundation and run back while clicking with correct timing
Build zigzag
spark dove
Hey would 120 reinforced iron plate/min be too much or not enough?
As a general starting point for a megafactory
My end goal is 100 of each space elevator parts per minute
sudden saffron
online calculators will tell you what you need to get that
spark dove
6 scaling up for the 7&8 unlock at the moment
spark dove
Coolies, i left a spare floor regardless so I can double it if needed
fierce ruin
you did that on one floor?
full dust
Would someone like to help me out in a question i have?
proven lark
I can try
full dust
Sure
fierce ruin
i too can help
valid spoke
is there any difference if I feed the awesome sink ore or ingot?
fresh elm
yes
everything you feed the sink gives different point values, and tickets cost an escalating amount of points
valid spoke
so is there a list
valid spoke
thanks
swift ice
People are using sinks mostly for getting rid of "unwanted" outputs or balancing their builds anyway 😅
fresh elm
I also just toss everything I make into them that I don't need for personal consumption
the overflow setting on smart splitters in experimental (coming soon to EA) is perfect for that
it has changed a lot about how I build now
it allows for some really nice re-feeding mechanisms
errant ether
any tips on good steel set ups/ ratios for that line of prodution ?
iv unlocked steel screws also is that worth doing over the iron way
tulip bronze
Which would you pick? ( Sorry if this isn't the right channel to ask)
upbeat tide
They are all kinda eeh imo
Wet concrete beats fine concrete
Silicone circuit boards is better than electrode IMO
And I have never needed to use steel rods.
Honestly the one you may get the most use out of is the circuit board one
fierce ruin
I'd take electrode circuit
with that and caterium computers you can make computers with oil + caterium, nothing else.
not that you'll necessarily want to, but it's an option
astral mulch
What's better experimental or access
summer field
Do you want more stability or experimental features?
astral mulch
experimental features
summer field
Then play Early Access.
fallow tulip
wait if he wants experimental features instead of stability shouldint he go play experimental 😛 everything is more stable on Early access
stark tree
I have a 225 line thats needs to split 5 ways into 45. Can someone Dm me for some help. please
wooden rune
just manifold them all, no need to balance
stark tree
okay thanks
delicate lagoon
Split info 2, than both linea into 3. You got 6 lines. 5 send to the buildings, tle lasy one... Merge with the oryginal line, before the first splitter.
After a while situation wilk koks Luke this: 225/m items is comming, merger adds 45, you get 270 items/m (still van be transporter with mk.3 belt), splitters split it i to 6 lines, 45 i/m , 5 for you to use, one goes back.
Most od the times i do nic care about balance, just split info 6 and ignore one. It wilk self balance when two buildings get full internal buffor. But its works porly for low traffic belts.
dusky quail
overflow/manifolds ftw
only time I would balance is if I'm running multiple belts of the same item (i.e. screws over 3 belts)
wind spade
That doesn't need balance at all, you can just use the belts directly
glacial hemlock
https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Equal_Splitter @stark tree if you insist, here is the page
https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Manifold but read this as well.
exotic rover
I use a combination of the two methods wherever possible because manifold splitting is scaleable and balanced splitting generally is not, so I build 4 Machine "pods" that are fed balanced within a pod, but each pod is fed by manifold
wind spade
usually the balancing is not needed
exotic rover
I'm discovering that more and more
Is there a way to balance fluid? fluid seems like a headache
all my fuel generators are manifold fed
wind spade
assuming that the pods together use max available resources, if one is not working, there's no need to redirect the input from it to other pods, as they won't be able to use it anyway
fluids should work with manifolds as well.
exotic rover
I don't generally do the math on the resources, I admit. I'm of the nervous type so If I don't see my ore inputs sitting still i get a little worried
Which I know is inefficient
In the long run I will work more on matching inputs to use
As for the fluids, I often find that when I have a failure, the first generator will be full of fuel and the last will be empty
wind spade
as long as you have enough fluids to power them all, then it should be fine.
glacial hemlock
@exotic rover you should try one of the online calculators, they calculate for you so you don't have to do the maths as all.
exotic rover
I will eventually, but for now I want to learn it all on my own, helps me commit it to memory better
wind spade
how does resource sink's power consumption work? is it consuming power all the time?
exotic rover
I've never watched the graph but I assumed it's on any time its grinding
thank you for inspiring me to ditch balancing
everything is so much more compact and scalable.
wind spade
well then the second question is - how long does it grind? since afaik it burns through it's whole inventory basically instantly
and therefore it shouldn't even use power for longer than like one tick
I can't launch the game, so I'd like if someone tested that ingame for me
exotic rover
That I also don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if it had an amount of power that it used per point produced
wind spade
or maybe @sand garnet knows the answer?
how does resource sink's power consumption work? is it consuming power all the time?
well then the second question is - how long does it grind? since afaik it burns through it's whole inventory basically instantly
exotic rover
Okay I have it hooked up seperate from my grid. it's burning .1MW at idle with no input
I put a single encased beam in the hurried over to the burner to watch power. when the beam went in, it came up to 30MW
then went back to .1MW as soon as it finished eating
wind spade
and was it just a spike or was it longer lasting?
exotic rover
I put leaves in. same result. up to 30 then back to zero as the last leaf went in
It looks like as long as things are rolling in on the belt it consumes 30
wind spade
ok, so after you put in item it starts to go to 30 and then after some delay it goes back to 0
thanks 🙂
exotic rover
I think as a matter of pedantry, it doesn't sink resources. you do.
fierce ruin
i dont
wind spade
hm, wiki also says
The Sink can consume items at 600 items/min maximum
exotic rover
The ingame tooltip lies then
wind spade
so it doesn't burn through whole stacks if you input it manually?
exotic rover
I wasn't even aware you could inpout manually
fierce ruin
you cant put items in by hand
fresh elm
the sink may be fixed, I know it was capped at 600 for a while
I balanced my factory to send stuff to them at 600/minute because of it
shy mason
Items per minute
fresh elm
items per minute yes
cedar mica
Simple way, add overflow loop to the 780 belts, so they balance each other out
chrome adder
is there any way to filter by priority? i got two different steel productions and i'd like to have an intelligent merger that priorizes the input #1 over input #2
or can i achieve this by a nice contraption of things?
empty hemlock
smart and programmable splitter have an overflow setting on EX. it'll be available on the stable branch in about 30 hours
chrome adder
that will change my life 😄
river night
overflow is definitely going to make me re-plan some stuff, eventhough it was originally designed to shuffle stuff off to the Sink, it can definitely be used for many other things
quasi knot
what overflow do? this splitter can move items to another branch if one of them full right?
chrome adder
you can make priorized subfactories to use your ressources well but increase production if needed. its a logic component that shouldnt miss for a space traveling pioneer 😄
wind spade
I usually would use that only for sink overflow. My production is planned to use 100% of the resources, so there isn't a need for any prioity input, balancing or anything like that
vernal anvil
Hi all, I am making a planning for a next production unit, out of the copper node I could extract 1200 copper ingots/min
but I am a bit stuck on how I should divide the production (copper sheets/wire)
vernal anvil
well, that's unclear for now
I just want to prepare basic tier stuff for further production
wind spade
then it's also unclear how you should divide your production 🙂
vernal anvil
well, most of the times I don't start from this "what do I want" point of view
but now, it's a lot of ingots 😄
wind spade
well if you want to do any sort of planning, you should know your goals
planning without a goal is hard/impossible
vernal anvil
It just requires a smart build
wind spade
that's like saying "I'm going to build a house, let's buy what I will need", but you don't know yet what the house will be made of and how big
you can do some things, but most of it will be just plain guess and it may not be needed, be too much or not enough
vernal anvil
the point is, sooner or later we'll make a mega base
and we don't want to send ores or ingots to this mega base
vernal anvil
well, I have come to the point where I start to believe all these smaller remote bases really limits you in a later stage, believe me, we're doing the same thing and it is hard
requires lots of transports and stuff so in a way a mega base is a good idea
wind spade
no?
I just transport final products from the small bases to central storage
I make everything required for the product in the small base
and I build it near the nodes it needs to run
vernal anvil
I mean, how do you make supercomputers for example, needs resources from different points :p
empty hemlock
smaller spread out bases has the advantage in game performance
vernal anvil
but let's not take game performance into account for now 😄
wind spade
as well as not needing to build megabase which is SUPER HARD to get correctly with expansion and rebuilding in mind
vernal anvil
there are pro's and cons about all concepts
wind spade
my process:
- figure out what I want and in which numbers
- find a nice place to build it where nodes with resources for it are near
- build the factory
- ship product to central storage, where it also overflows to sink
- repeat
vernal anvil
there are no nice places where you have everything at your availability tbh
wind spade
advantages:
- I can easily rebuild just one product
- I can easily increase/decrease production of one product (since the small factories are modular and I can just copy them again)
- I can shut down one product if it's not needed
there are places where everything you need is like 500m around
and you can just transport the resources via belts/trains
vernal anvil
yes we are coming to the point
you need to transport everything to the remote bases :p
wind spade
not everything
usually it's just a few nodes that are a bit remote
if you plan carefully, you can get most of the bases super close to what they need
vernal anvil
I really have difficulties believing that tbh
or maybe i am biased by our current building locations but for example to build Alclad sheets you need so many stuff
and I am not talking about making 20alclad sheets/minute
same for turbo motors, supercomputers, and so on
wind spade
the point is, I'm not making EVERY item. I'm just making items that I need to build stuff
and you can use one location for multiple items
vernal anvil
well, our game goals are different so this whole discussion is kinda pointless tbh :p
wind spade
fair, but that still doesn't change the fact that if you have endgame goals, you should plan according to them and not blindly smelt ingots and then wonder what to do with them 😉
vernal anvil
well, can we agree that we might never agree on that point? :p I just want to get the maximum out of every node. (No hard feelings btw)
wind spade
if you want to get max out of each node, then you still shouldn't build stuff without calculating what you need to build first
vernal anvil
the problem is I don't know yet what I will need
I don't have an endgame plan since there is also no endgame 😬
wind spade
there is an endgame
fossil grove
the endgame is building endgame items at whatever rate you want it to
wind spade
when you've maxed tiers and research and you're OCing nodes to 250% and building giant bases
I wouldn't call that midgame or earlygame
wind spade
I don't mean megabase
I mean just the amount of buildings you're placing around the map
doesn't matter if the "factory building" they are in is big or small
fossil grove
technically if you build on a global grid you are making one huge megabase
which i again forgot to do, on my 4th playthrough
and now my starting area is a huge mess
wind spade
anyway, the original point still stands no matter what
if you're doing larger scale projects without calculating it first, you'll fail sooner or later
vernal anvil
I calculate everything btw, I just don't know yet where I will end up, that's all
wind spade
what are you calculating if you don't know the target goal yet?
wind spade
also there are calculators out there 🙂
vernal anvil
there are, and they don't do what I need of them
wind spade
for example?
vernal anvil
There is not one calculator showing me what I can get out of a pure node running on 250%
woeful skiff
be updated 😄 (sorry jk I know your busy)
vernal anvil
they all start from the principle "select the item you need"
wind spade
well at least for U2 there was my tool, I'm working on the U3 tool now