math-and-meta

[glacial hemlock]

You will run out of copper eventually

[wise obsidian]

@empty vault pure aluminum is junk

[empty vault]

Thanks

[glacial hemlock]

Indeed pure aluminum

[upbeat tide]

You lose alot of efficiency with pure alu

Something like 25% less aluminum ingots

In ratio form, normal aluminum ingot is a 3:1 ratio, scrap:ingot

With pure its 4:1

[glacial hemlock]

Yes.

[chrome flume]

I have got 10 refineries providing 120 coke per min each to my 50 coal gens, so i stacked 2 refinery to 10 coal gens. Coal gens need 25 per min, 10 of them need 250 per min and i have tried to connect every 2 refinery to 10 of coal gens with overflow method. But coal gens seem to be full, making refineries not work because of excess coke

sorry for the long post but, would be nice if anybody helped me

[heady smelt]

simple as always, generators use <100% of fuel

because you don't use as much energy

[chrome flume]

if i was using more energy than system would not get stuck

you are saying

[heady smelt]

well you need perfect 100% for this which is not possible

and adding more gens won't solve this because capacity glows, percent each drops, coal/min total same

[chrome flume]

do you have any tips for this sittuation?

i really feel bad after spending 2 days on this 😦

[heady smelt]

what's problem? refineries being not active? get overflow and feed it/store it

[chrome flume]

hmm right

if i use the excess coal then it is all good

[heady smelt]

you can just replace last splitter with smart splitter and set it to overflow (if you use experimental obviously) and store it/use it other ways/sink it

[chrome flume]

no i am not playing on experimental but i think i can still use a normal splitter for overflow, since it is all excess coke untill i start to use more power

allright man thanks a lot , i am hopefull again

[heady smelt]

well you'd need special setup then, or half of coke for last gen will go away instead of just excessive but i think you will figure it

[fierce ruin]

hi

[fierce ruin]

https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/558721941410807812/708806277626593322
@chrome flume how did u made this plan? Is it a satisfactory plannet?

[sand garnet]

its not a planner, it's just a website that shows what you already built on your savegame

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/nl/interactive-map#2.25;50000;0|gameLayer| @fierce ruin

[chrome flume]

@fierce ruin yes as @sand garnet said, you should use that site, helps really much

[fierce ruin]

@sand garnet @chrome flume thanks

[sand garnet]

you're welcome

[mystic orchid]

OK guys, question, i have 2 480 bauxite lines, i will feed them in 6x2 refineries, making 480 x2 allumina. will then feed those ina 3:1 RATIO refineries, aka 2x2 refineries. issue is each of those 4 refineries will produce 60 water, for a total of 240, not enough to feed 3 of the prior refineries ( so i can't just cicle the water back), what do i do with that 240 water ?

[glacial hemlock]

the answer is, you can.

240 water equals to 2.4 alumina refineries, so for the alumina solution, build 7 refineries, into 2 group: the first 3.6 refineries (3 x 100 + 1 x 60%) uses fresh water, the remaining 2.4 (3 x 80% each) uses recycled water.

this is my initial aluminum factory, with recycled water.

[mystic orchid]

ok i'm not getting it ahahah

i don't have the electrode recipy btw

[glacial hemlock]

the key idea is separate the pipeline and refineries to handle the recycled fluid exclusively. See there is 1 refinery didn't connected to water extractor at all.

[mystic orchid]

yeah i see that, the issue though is that i produce for every 300 water used only 60, using 1 refinery linked to 3 allumina producing one. mmm will have to think this one over

[glacial hemlock]

try to change the ratio accordingly.

you will eventually figure it out. Most tier 7 items have unavoidable loopback, along with some tier 5 and 6 alternatives.

[mystic orchid]

i mean how can i change the ratio? a single allumina thingy produces 80, and the allumina to scrap is 240, exactly 3 times

[glacial hemlock]

you have to break the ratio purposely.

https://daniel2013.github.io/satisfactory/calculator

[mystic orchid]

do i huh... i may as well just reduce that water pipe to have only 60 water inside naturally

and then start it up again without being linked to the prior supply to have a full 300 water

meaning only 60 water comes in, and then i add the 240 from the loop

[glacial hemlock]

you said 480 bauxite per belt, right? then this is the result

that means 1.37 Refineries should be only using the recycled water, and the remaining 5.49 refineries should be using the fresh water.

[mystic orchid]

this requires to use underclocked refineries though,... ugh.. well will see, thx for the help

[glacial hemlock]

yes, of course you need to underclock... lol

[mystic orchid]

well i always prefer to leave stuff running at 100%, even if i loose some resources

[upbeat tide]

Why? Underclocking also lowers power use. As long as the end goal is what you desire, it should not matter.

I have underclocked a machine to 8% before to ensure final production is 100%

And if you want to do nuclear you are gonna have to underclock. Just the way it is.

[fierce ruin]

talking about aluminum, I noticed that you can make a setup like this which makes 78 silica/m for example

and then this one using 78 silica/m

[upbeat tide]

I prefer to do it this way

3.75 recineries

IN: 262.5 bauxite
IN: 375m3 water
OUT: 300m3 Alumina Solution
OUT: 75 Silica

3.33 refineries

IN: 300m3 Alumina Solution
IN: 100 coal
OUT: 100m3 water
OUT: 500 Aluminum Scrap

2.08 foundaries

IN: 500 Aluminum Scrap
IN: 292 Silica
OUT: 166.5 Aluminum Ingot

2.77 Assemblers

In: 166.5 Aluminum Ingot
In: 63 Copper Ingot
OUT: 83 Alclad Aluminum Sheets

[glacial hemlock]

@fierce ruin using a mixture of original and alternate recipe is one way to handle byproducts

There are other ways to do it.

[upbeat tide]

My way is to use the water from 3 of the setups above, which will make 300m3 water. Enough for 3 solution refineries.

Silica is a bit tougher to even out, but with the same 3 modules, thats 225 silica. Enough for 1.6 foundaties. Simply split one foundary, 60/40 and your set

[upbeat tide]

This a good model of the 3 to 8 coal gen setuo?

[wind spade]

yeah, though I personally like to connect the last extractor to the end of the pipeline

[upbeat tide]

Makes sense

[dusky quail]

I like the logic the 3rd extractor kicks in after the 5th generator

but OCD wise it's probably better at the end :p

[upbeat tide]

Im just modeling this stuff for myself and easy access to help new players, but yea the OCD would stack the pipes, hard to model that in draw.io tho

[dusky quail]

#OCDmeta

[glacial hemlock]

As long as it works, there are thousands of different arrangements that are essentially the same design

[oblique hollow]

ah, another cultured Draw.io user.

glad to see

[upbeat tide]

I prefer Visio but...that ol problem most didnt have their college give it to em for free

[fierce ruin]

draw.io is nice cuz you don't need to install anything on your computer and you don't need to register

[upbeat tide]

I know 🙂

But for mee free liscensed software is...free!

Benefits of being in a Bachelor’s IT program, I was given access to alot of free stuff

[heady smelt]

not sure if visio will speed up process of drawing this thing tho

[upbeat tide]

Naw it doesnt I just use it because I have it

[heady smelt]

i prefer to use fastest tool for a job. visio is good for studying when you need to send those to your teacher or do some sort of fancy paperwork

[upbeat tide]

Its also the best network topology making tool I know of

Years of using Packet Tracer I much prefer Visio for topoligies

[oblique hollow]

before i found draw.io i used to (for work, mind you) draw flow charts in PAINT

[upbeat tide]

Oof

[woeful skiff]

I use draw.io for factory planning but in a completely different way, I use for laying out floorplans. E.g. a constructor has an 8x10m footprint, so I use an 80x100pt rectangle. Splitters are 20x20 pt, and so on.
Laying it all out in draw.io makes it easier to come up with something both clean and space efficient.

[fierce ruin]

to plan out factories I prefer some oldschool pen & paper

quicker and more flexible

[wanton heath]

draw.io is a great tool, I r8 8/8

[sand garnet]

dont h8, apprec8

[upbeat tide]

this was fun to configure

how do you take in over 1800 limestone a min and divide it into 9 lines of assemblers? Each needing 208 limestone?

this little system is my answer

[covert edge]

3x3 merge/spit each divide by 3

[pseudo lance]

Random fact: You can make 5 times the amount of Copper Sheets using the Pure Copper Ingot and Steamed Copper Sheet recipes.

[covert edge]

Did anyone did some mega factory using all the uranium on the map to power nuclear power plant (around 475) ? If yes how do you handle the water supply for the power plant ?

[pseudo lance]

1 ore makes 2.5 sheets vs 0.5 sheets with the standard recipes.

[covert edge]

@pseudo lance indeed, but your an insane amount of power compared to the base recipe.

you need*

[pseudo lance]

@covert edge True.

Also need water.

[cedar mica]

Power vs Production vs Resources, seems to be the main theme

[covert edge]

and copper isn't that rare so i don"t really know which is best.

[pseudo lance]

I've been producing Copper Sheets on-site inside of my factory. But they are used for so many things I feel like it would be useful to produce them externally and import them.

Like, you need crazy amounts to make Heat Sinks using the alt recipe.

[cedar mica]

And in pure production numbers, Copper Rotor is quite good

Not to mention, Circuit Board

[pseudo lance]

Mmm

I prefer the Steel Rotor recipe myself.

[cedar mica]

Yeah, but Steel Pipes are also quite heavy used, so its a matter of where you want to spread the load

[covert edge]

Steel for the win ^^

[pseudo lance]

It accompanies Stators nicely when building motors. Only need Copper and Steel as input materials.

[cedar mica]

Less steel, means more coal for power, meaning more oil for other stuff

[covert edge]

You can use all the unecessary coke 🙂

iron ore/petroleum coke

[cedar mica]

Why turn it into coke, when it can be used for diluted fuel?

[covert edge]

One always get to much heavy oil residue

You can, but what do you with it when your storage is full ?

[cedar mica]

Overflow + sinks....

[covert edge]

If heavy oil stacks up you risk to shut down rubber and plastic

then overflow and steel ^^

[pseudo lance]

I thought it would be better to turn the Coke into Steel and then sink the Steel for points. But Coke is actually worth more...xD

[covert edge]

and then sink if not needed

Especially if you turn fuel into turbofuel

[pseudo lance]

You can actually build a plastic/rubber factory that produces no by-products using the Recycled Plastic/Rubber recipes.

[covert edge]

you need to turn oil into fuel to have polymer resin for that

or use the polymer alternative which produce heavy oil (i didnt do the math on that one yet, maybe it's more balanced)

[upbeat tide]

The issue with using resin from byproducts is that you may not get the max production. Depending on how much your power grid is working.

Like for example my 20 heavy oil residue alt refineries at the start of my turbofuel chain produce alot of resin on paper, but since they do not need to work at 100%, the resin trickles out

[covert edge]

Exactly, you can try the alternate for polymer maybe

But you have to deal with heavy oil residue

[upbeat tide]

Thing is residual plastic isnt any more efficient than normal plastic

60m3 crude with regular plastic will net you 40 plastic

60 crude becomes 130 resin which is a 60/20 ratio for plastic, same result. 40 plastic

[covert edge]

No

130 give 43.33333 platic

but you need water ><

[upbeat tide]

Yup yea I didnt count the 10 extra resin as its kinda annoying to use, unless you make 12 resin refineries anyway

So, thats 720 crude

At that level, math is easier

Normal will make 480 plastic
The resin process would net 520

So yea its better but alot more work

[vivid furnace]

does anyone have a good blueprint for producing plastic?

[upbeat tide]

But the chain is kinda insane honestly

720 crude

12 refineries polymer resin

26 residual rubber

17.33 recycled plastic

End result is 1040 plastic

But you need lots of water for this

@vivid furnace first time plastic or endgame?

[vivid furnace]

well

first time for me kinda xD

i know that you get a side product

[upbeat tide]

How much crude?

[vivid furnace]

dont know yet

have to search more,

[upbeat tide]

https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev/items/plastic

A 300m3 crude pipe can support 10 plastic refineries

[vivid furnace]

yes, i know how plastic works xD

but i need plastic, not power. i dont know what to do with the fuel you get as the side product

[upbeat tide]

Will make you 200 plastic and 100 heavy oil residue.

Simplest way to use that is to make petroleum coke and sink it for now

[cedar mica]

300 cruid is 900 plastic, with the diluted fuel and recycled method

[upbeat tide]

Heavy oil isnt fuel

[vivid furnace]

yes iknow

[covert edge]

That's a crude question to ask 😄

[vivid furnace]

so the best way to get rid of the heave oil is just produce packafed heavy oil residue?

[covert edge]

or petroleum coke

[vivid furnace]

oh

[covert edge]

Packaged need plastic

[vivid furnace]

wait lol, i havent seen that.

[covert edge]

for the container

[vivid furnace]

yes, thats why i ask it xD

[covert edge]

And you can use petroleum coke to make steel with the alternate recipe eventually

or use the diluted fuel recipe to turn heavy oil residue and water into fuel

and feed it to fuel generator

[vivid furnace]

enough fuel for me xD i have 7k mw and use 2k mw

lol

[covert edge]

You also have the poor man solution for the heavy oil residue

which is to make some large tank and flush it once in a while ...

[novel canyon]

So at the moment, I'm set up producing more Alclad Sheet than I have the set ups to use, but in the event that I need to expand a bit I have already upgraded my Miner on the Bauxite (pure) to mk.3.
I was wondering if someone could help me work out how many more refineries I can add to that Miner without adding another node, if I've already got 4 Refineries making solution, 2 Refineries clocked to 66% each for Scrap, and 3 Foundries.
My mind is trying to wrap itself around this problem, but all I'm seeing is numbers and no solutions, and I might be getting too caught up in details

[upbeat tide]

There are many ways to do alclad, but this is mine

Designed to make 300m3 solution per “module”

Input is 262.5 bauxite and 375m3 water

Outputs 75 silica, 100m3 water, and 500 scrap

This method uses the electrode aluminum scrap alt tho, but the solution step is unchanged

I then send that 500 scrap into 2.08 foundaries with 292 silica, makes 166.4 ingots, fed into 2.77 assemblers with 63 copper and finally makes 83 alclad

[novel canyon]

I think I have morning brain, because I'm reading going, "yes, I can see that, but what?"

[upbeat tide]

Its all based off how much it takes to fill a solution pipe and worked from there

A single mk3 belt is all thats needed to feed the 4 refineries

[novel canyon]

Okay, so I should go and underclock my miner for now, because I'm overproducing Bauxite.

and my brain just gave up

[upbeat tide]

Wither that or expand this whole system is expandable by just repeating it over and over

[novel canyon]

I don't have any output once the Alclad is made yet, so I need to figure out what I need to automate before I think of expanding

I was just curious to know how much I could expand, but my mind is still foggy

[upbeat tide]

How much bauxite do you have?

[novel canyon]

I have a Mk.3 Miner on a Pure node, so 480/min?

[novel canyon]

Hmm. Looks like I need to expand silica by bucket loads too, 'cos I'm using part of my silica for circuit boards

[upbeat tide]

First is if you have the electrode alt, second if you dont

Sadly you use more bauxite without the electrode alt

[novel canyon]

I don't think Bauxite is a problem tbf

[upbeat tide]

Its the main limitation, you have cheap silica?

[novel canyon]

No, but I've got 2 Normal Nodes tapped which if I upgrade to Mk.3 Miners would give me more than enough raw quartz for everything I think

[upbeat crown]

those graphs look the same every time, is it all premade, or is there a website for it or what?

[upbeat tide]

https://daniel2013.github.io/satisfactory/calculator

I like to make my own like shown farther above, but that calc does a good job

This is actually very accurate to my setup

I jusy distribute things slightly differently, but it all adds up correctly

[upbeat crown]

thanks, that's cool!

[upbeat tide]

Just divide everything in that design by 9 and thats my setup

Decided to go a morular approach, and it works really well

Ooh max possible alclad you can make ingame is 2476 a min

Based off the 7800 a min bauxite max

[heady smelt]

well calc doesn't distribute much, it just shows how much of resources you need and how much buildings which is nice

[glacial hemlock]

From the calculator result, there is a fixed pattern to convert it into the actual build, according to individual player's preference

[fierce ruin]

@upbeat tide what app did you use for that? :o

[red hamlet]

I think it's this https://daniel2013.github.io/satisfactory/calculator @fierce ruin

[upbeat tide]

Yea it was Daniel’s calc

I like it for the math, but I still make my own physical topologies for the actual layout.

[wise obsidian]

Speaking of aluminum, anyone got a good design to handle the water overflow that occurs when either the alumina solution or the scrap portions of your factory pause? And water extractors continue running.

Without completely isolating both portions of the factory and continuing to use water from scrap in the solution circuit.

[upbeat crown]

Done with math for the school year!

[upbeat tide]

Water extractors continuing to run isnt a issue. If you soace out your alu solution refineries properly you shouldnt have any overflow at all

I have modified this plan so that the 300m3 water I produce from the scrap plants gets used in the 300m3 input for solution

The 275 lines are all from water extractors.

Process is repeated 9 times, and each group of 3 makes 300m3 byproduct water

Another way is to use the water in a production line such as a pure ingot, for example

[wise obsidian]

Yeah, that's not happening 😉

ingots handled elsewhere

Going to see if I can fit another overflow refinery making fabric; just about ready to give up with this subfactory

I think my problem may stem from not having an overflow tank in the proper location

after using the new overflow mechanic in smart splitters w/ my new turbo motor factory, I can't help but wish they'd implement something so basic on fluids. It simplifies logistics so much!

[manic storm]

you can implement that using gravity :P

two pipes, one high one low, fluid fills the low one first

fluid mechanics ftw

[wise obsidian]

it's really clunky - and doesn't work well with systems whose fluids vary in level based on demand

[honest forge]

If you put a pump to force the direction of the water coming out of your refineries and pipe them back into the circuit (with pumps just before the spliiter to ensure the direction of water), it should work correctly

[glacial hemlock]

I wonder how many days I will take to build these. 😂 now I only have 900 plastic and 900 rubber.

oops, forgot cheap silica

[obtuse jetty]

Is there any production calculator that works in reverse from the existing production calculators? One that calculates from rate of input rather than rate of desired output

[glacial hemlock]

ficsit embetterer?

https://ficsit.info/embetterer?

enter 'limit resource' then try to calculate output.

[heady smelt]

it kinda works but you can't deduct amount of produced items from limit. if you select item, it will demand amount/min. if you limit resource under limit it will show error. good for alt recipes tho i think

[glacial hemlock]

yes, still need to experiments with the numbers, I am not sure if there is any calculators that feed you the result based on input.

[obtuse jetty]

good to know. I typically take the reverse approach

also, which should I pick?

[glacial hemlock]

3

[obtuse jetty]

why's that

[glacial hemlock]

all are pretty good, but 3 is the first you should take.

[obtuse jetty]

kk

[glacial hemlock]

https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Hard_Drive#Alternate_recipe_analysis

read this

[heady smelt]

pipes are easier to setup i think plus you don't need say pipes for heavy frame and beams for encased stuff, now you need only pipes
plus tbh i have too much pipes because of this and the fact that beams are used as mk3 belt

[dusky quail]

all 3 are pretty decent so kinda depends what he needs

iron wire definitely lowest priority unless you got some end game combo

[upbeat tide]

This is my next project

Already have a 30/min crystal ocilator factory built

I wish the calc used alts like iron wire and steamed copper sheets properly, seems to ignore them

[heady smelt]

wdym properly and ignore? if you want, you can force it to use them by banning non-alt recipe

[fierce ruin]

the only downside to this calculator I found is that you can't have both alt and non-alt recipes used at the same time

[upbeat tide]

Ooh didnt know you could force it

[heady smelt]

yeah, the downside not that you can't combine, but that you can't input already existing things. only raw from scratch.

[upbeat tide]

Thats fine for me, like my system needs silica. Already have it from my alclad making

Revisions

Ignore the silica part, that 675 is already made

[glacial hemlock]

@fierce ruin You can simplify the upstream material by disabling the the item entirely

@upbeat tide good luck finding the required quartz

[heady smelt]

how do you disable item? i can disable only recipe

[upbeat tide]

Already found

[glacial hemlock]

115 computer is a lot.

[upbeat tide]

It is but planning for a big turbomotor factory, plus im sitting on 2400 unused quartz

And already have 30 CO a min built up

[glacial hemlock]

@heady smelt try supercomputer then disable computer, HSC, Limiter and plastic

@upbeat tide i see.

[heady smelt]

ok, it works
i just tried turbofuel same way and it failed

[upbeat tide]

Plus no power concerns, I got a 20 GW capacity left til I have to build something

Which maybe a big nuclear build tbh

[fierce ruin]

@glacial hemlock that's what I did

is bauxite this rare btw? I was pretty proud of my pure aluminum + regular alu setup

[upbeat tide]

Eeh avoid pure aluminum you lose 25% aluminum scrap efficiency

And yea bauxite is kinda rare, there is only 7800 a min you can extract in the entire map

[fierce ruin]

ok good to know

[upbeat tide]

The normal recipe: 3:1 ratio

Pure: 4:1

Thats scrap to ingot

[heady smelt]

only 7800

how much iron?

i feel like dude from "no full auto in building" video

[upbeat tide]

Iron? Is there a limit? 😄

[heady smelt]

well duh 🙂

[upbeat tide]

Im being sarcastic

Iron:

46 pure nodes, 35880
41 normal nodes, 24600
33 impure nodes, 9900

Total: 70,380

Thats an insane 130,705 ingots if you pure ingot it all

[heady smelt]

sounds like fried pc to me...

[upbeat tide]

Granted you would need 2010 refineries...

And 135 water extractors

[upbeat tide]

so, I have 217 bauxite unused, im about to fix that 🙂

The annoying bit is that my cheap silica array overflows 108 lime and 76 raw quartz... lime im not concerned about, but this will want 76.86 raw quartz...ugh close enough I guess

[wise obsidian]

@upbeat tide Don't use up so much of your world's quartz that you wont have any left over for silicon circuit boards and high speed connectors 😛

(and radios)

[upbeat tide]

Silicon circuit boards is earmarked already, gonna use my alclad byproduct for that

675 worth of byproduct

And my current crystal ocilator build has a quartz crystal overflow of 393.3 so that will help lower the numbers overall

[fiery crest]

starting a mega base thats 32*32 blocks

i think thats 256 * 256

or 65,536 m^2

[glacial hemlock]

32 * 32 is just the beginning. Keep it up!

[subtle quail]

ive seen a lot of youtubers making a loop when doing one way rails like this one:
https://i.imgur.com/cv9eTZL.png
my question is why? its a train.. it can go in both directions without a loop. can anyone explain the point of this

[wise obsidian]

To maintain freight car orientation at stations

if you reverse at one end, it means you need to reverse at the other end

and, conversely, if you never reverse at one end and loop around, that means you need to loop around at the other end

[subtle quail]

ah so its just a preference for when you drive manually?

[wise obsidian]

no, you need to maintain freight car setups

1,2,3,4,5 --> 1,2,3,4,5 --> etc

[subtle quail]

i see

thanks

[wise obsidian]

for different materials

that's the only real reason, but aesthetically, some people simply don't like doubleheaded trains

[subtle quail]

https://i.imgur.com/TWtRMQ6.png
thats what ive been doing, but i guess if i start to transport different mats ill have issues with it?

[wise obsidian]

you'll be fine as long as you reverse at both ends of your track and come into your stations in the same configuration every time

or rather, you always need to reverse an even number of times during your route 😉

you can get pretty creative with a track layout, but need to keep that in mind

[upbeat tide]

My train preference is to build a dedicated train moving one specific good. Simplifies things

[lament shuttle]

Pretty neat

[heady smelt]

so you just make front facing train and make 8 shaped path?

[upbeat tide]

I have done point to point with double sided trains and loops

My point to point ones dont need to worry about reverse delivery because they are one item trains

[glacial hemlock]

@heady smelt yes

[foggy saffron]

so many calculators out there... which one do you all use?

[upbeat tide]

• My own calculations
• interactive map + production calc
• daniel’s

[dusky quail]

own calculations for sure

that's actually the fun part for me

[wise obsidian]

used to do my own

and then I got to aluminum

[glacial hemlock]

You all are so pro at maths...

[valid atlas]

I spend more time on a flowchart that I do playing this game, I think.

[wind spade]

don't use balancers, just do manifolds 🙂

[valid atlas]

I don't know what that is, I picked this game up last week.

[wind spade]

you'll save a lot of headache that way

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  | 
  X  X  X  X  X

S = splitter
X = any machine

[valid atlas]

doesn't that take away from the efficiency?

[wind spade]

no, the efficiency is the same

[upbeat tide]

No, it just takes time for everything to get to 100%

Each machine needs to fill its internal storage, but once thats done it will work at 100%

[valid atlas]

hmm okay. I'm not sure how to get what I have like that but I will take a look at it

[wind spade]

e.g. this part right here

can be easily changed to one splitter with priority to the assembler

[valid atlas]

there's a way to change priority?

[wind spade]

yeah, smart and programmable splitters have priority settings

[valid atlas]

alright so i'll still need to go with this until I unlock those. Good to know though, thanks a ton!

[stoic oracle]

Do we know when the overflow setting from experimental will be in early access version?

[sand garnet]

no

but probably steam release

[stoic oracle]

cool

[upbeat tide]

Speaking of doing your own math, made this little steel smelting comparison chart

[upbeat tide]

Version 2, color changes and some minor edits

[wind spade]

typo Foundaries -> Foundries 🙂

[wise obsidian]

eww, compacted steel ingot 😉

sulfur is.... precious to me

[upbeat tide]

still needs to be compared...but yea agree

[glacial hemlock]

we need additional Sulfur

if the amount of sulfur is at least the same as coal, then Steel will be OP

[novel canyon]

My plan is to turn the entirety of the Coal and Sulfur in the NE Dune Desert into Compacted Coal. That's gonna be the only thing made and exported from there haha

Mostly because at this time, until we find out what they have planned for Nuclear Waste, I have no intention of trying to build Nuclear Power Plants, 'cos I don't want to have to build a massive containment unit in the middle of the Western Ocean or something just to keep the waste out of the way

[wind spade]

I beleive that the current state of nuclear waste is final

it's a waste, any reprocessing would remove it's purpose completely

[novel canyon]

Well, I mean not so much reprocessing, but rather containment such that it can be safely stored somewhere and not eventually irradiate the whole map haha

Like lead-lined, concrete containers

[wind spade]

"eventually irradiate the whole map" -> even if you had max nuclear power, you'd need to wait 100s of years of real time to even be close to irradiating the whole map

so while you could irradiate the whole map, I don't really see that happening, unless you do some efficient irradiating like placing a container every few hundreds of meters filled with waste

[zinc blaze]

So like question here is it better to have belts of refined metals or is it better to take the metals out directly from a smelter and into a constructor and such

[novel canyon]

#old-questions-and-help @zinc blaze

[zinc blaze]

Well i thought itd fit better here like is it easier to work with your belt maths if its in one place or what

[novel canyon]

It really depends on your set up pre-Miners using Portable Miners.

It's a lot easier to simply put a belt between a smelter and a constructor and feed the Smelter with the ore

[zinc blaze]

Oh, would it suck later to have my metal refining in one branch of my base like this and feed to other areas

im wanting some opinions before i devote to it

[wind spade]

@zinc blaze it's best to have factories at nodes 😛

[glacial hemlock]

outposts and separated factories ftw

if you have the ultimate planning, then it is still possible to have a central processing area, just need a lot more of belts and pipes.

[wind spade]

and no fps

[zinc blaze]

Oh yo i forgot to ask this earlier

[glacial hemlock]

wow greeny you sure are VIP discord member

[wind spade]

what? 😄

[zinc blaze]

What would be more efficent material wise bolted plates or stitched plates, I have iron wire unlocked.

decimals spook me

[glacial hemlock]

stitched

bolted plate+casted screws saves power and footprint, stitched + iron wire for resource efficiency

[upbeat tide]

Speaking of insane nuclear, if I used daniel’s right the max you can make is 94 nuclear fuel rods right?

And at 0.2 a min per gen, thats 470 gens?

[wind spade]

I still have to make my tool to allow for the calculations 🤔 😄

[upbeat tide]

The sheer number of manufacturers alone is...insane

[wise obsidian]

I'd really like to tackle the inherent production problems of nuclear

but I just have no interest in the tech tier

Don't like the concept of a waste product in a game with otherwise infinite resources

That's a lot of quartz 😄

[glacial hemlock]

94.5 to be exact

or 472.5, just print this number in your brain.

[upbeat tide]

Yea your talkin

Almost 500 refineries, 400 constructors, 410+ assemblers, 420+ manufacturers, and 16 foundaries 😄 just to make the fuel

[glacial hemlock]

but a maxed out factory is unlikely to use over half a TW

[wise obsidian]

alt oscillator recipe btw

[upbeat tide]

Disagree, the rubber doesnt help

Normal crystal ocilator can be simplified quite easily

[wise obsidian]

🤷‍♂️ cuts down on quartz

and you dont need the oil fi you;re goign nuclear

[upbeat tide]

Cuts quartz but adds quickwire so its a tradeoff

[glacial hemlock]

both are correct. But I would say a maxed out factory won't need rubber oscillator.

[wise obsidian]

I would contend that it mostly theory-crafting regardless of method

a normal person will quit long before such numbers are reached out of frustration dealing with the inevitable lag

[upbeat tide]

Depends on how you build it. If you build it so that all the non radioactive stuff is made off-site it will help tremendouslly

80% of the refineries are for pure alts anyway for example

[hard river]

Tips on building a mega factory

[glacial hemlock]

go big.

[hard river]

Ok

Currently have a 75^2 platform

[glacial hemlock]

thats really big

how many floors?

[uneven elm]

Whats 6732+2938

[glacial hemlock]

By using a calculator, it is 9670

[upbeat tide]

Would be nice to know what those numbers even reference 🙂

[heady smelt]

nothing, it's "joke" about math channel

[dense dove]

just spent two hours planning the output of 3 grasslands iron nodes into second tier materials. the satisfaction of the maths all coming together in the end is just so... what the word I'm looking for...

[indigo vigil]

"Erotic"?

[dense dove]

Not quite what the word I was looking for but indeed, it was. When I put in those last numbers and it just slide in gracefully

not the most pretty but

[indigo vigil]

I love a good sticky note math mess ❤️

[dense dove]

ah i just noticed something missing, gotta fix that. No screws are going into storage, will take 10 from the top miner~~

Heh i had thought of an excel sheet but.. this worked 🙂

Now that the math is done, time to plan the floor lol

that 5 splitter though, im really glad i found this.

[light shell]

do smart splitters exist? forgive me im still new to game

[long elk]

yes

[heady smelt]

balancers again
well if people like doing useless math and building...

[dense dove]

Yes, but you wouldnt be able to setup a certain % of outputs

[wind spade]

@dense dove balancers are useless in this game

or rather, 99.9% useless

[heady smelt]

and 100% useless for fluids

[dense dove]

Well, I need an input of 3 in an assembler.

my output is 5

[wind spade]

yeah, so where's the issue?

[heady smelt]

downclock/smart splitter with overflow/overflow with mergers

[dense dove]

im early game

[heady smelt]

overflow with mergers

[dense dove]

tier 2

late game isn't gonna be an issue

[heady smelt]

it isn't tier 2 too

if you need those extra items do overflow, if not - let machine stop if belt is full

[dense dove]

from what i gathered there's no overflow splitter. there's an overflow build?

[heady smelt]

yes
you put 4-6 splitters in a row, from each you take two lifts vertically to mergers, and from mergers you connect your input
this way you can get 99% efficiency fast

[wind spade]

why not just use our good old friend manifold? :)

--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X

[heady smelt]

well duh, but if it's 1:1 connection you can't take not 33-50-66%

if it's multiple users it's easy, just manifold it and rest goes into storage

input is in first splitter, output is top merger, overflow is last splitter

[dense dove]

That's nice. But, that doesn't solve my problem of needing to split a 5 resources output into 3-1-1. What i math'd is gonna be good for that, considering im early game. unless there's a better way to split something like that

[heady smelt]

no, if you need 3-1-1 just do manifold

5 will saturate 3 and then remaining 2 will split into 1-1

[dense dove]

so in this case

--S--S--S
  |  |  |  
  X  X  X

[heady smelt]

https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/machine-fill

play with this tool

[wind spade]

if you're splitting into 3 buildings, just make 1 splitter

[heady smelt]

well yeah this is reduced manifold

[dense dove]

3 buildings, but one needs 3 of 5.

[wind spade]

that'll balance itself out

[heady smelt]

doessn't matter, one belt wil lsaturate and not take

[dense dove]

one needs 1, and the last will be stored

huh

[heady smelt]

it needs time to balance itself but it will work perfectly
because input == output so items can't go into nowhere

anyway, balancing is novice trap. i think 99% of people go for it unless they watched a lot of satisfactory before.

[dense dove]

Isn't a splitter just gonna split 50/50 if there's two belts? because I don't see how the manifold works, if the first splitter gives 50% to the first machine, then 25 to the second, and so on?

[heady smelt]

machine can't take more than it needs 🙂

[wind spade]

yeah, manfiold works because the first machine's output will fill and then the extra items will overflow to the other splitter

[wise obsidian]

the output on splitter is affected by any backed up belt on any of its outlets

[dense dove]

Oh, so splitters DO overflow

[heady smelt]

obviously, where items would go other way?

[wind spade]

yeah, if one side is full, they'll try other sides

[dense dove]

i thought it just kept sending to the left anyways

[heady smelt]

how?

[wise obsidian]

ie., one outlet can output the entire belt if that's the only thing connected (or other two outlets are backed up)

[dense dove]

or whatever side

[heady smelt]

if left side is full it... can't send there items

[dense dove]

alright, that makes sense

yeah but, i didnt think it would actually work, ya know?

I thought it would just still send items that way

I was here making Y splits everywhere lol

[heady smelt]

there is basic system:

1. items can't dissapear
2. belts and machines have limits on how many they store

[dense dove]

and that was beforer i found out you could just slip a splitter/merger ON a belt

before id place one down and fiddle with all the conveyors. boy the revelation it was when i found out

[heady smelt]

well it's comfortable for certain things but i usually snap belts to splitters

[dense dove]

also took 80 hours before i figured you could raiise the damn basic conveyor pole -_-

[heady smelt]

oof 80 hours

[dense dove]

ikr

[heady smelt]

stackable poles > pole anyway

[dense dove]

hm yeah but depends

[heady smelt]

i hate conveyor poles tbh

i always remove them

[dense dove]

if i just need a single pole, and it's tall enough, I'll use it, but now im all about them stackables. and i keep the poles, thats just me. i dont like when it feels like the conveyor couldnt really hold there. I try to avoid clipping as much as possible, etc

[heady smelt]

stackables are tidy and allow for floors of belts
poles are ugly and not perfect

[dense dove]

lol

right now my issue is how you cant place a stackable on the same spot as a pole, but you can put a pole in the same spot as a stackable

so if i want to put a ground floor conveyor, and a stackable above, i'll run the conveyor, remove the pole, add the stackable, the replace the pole.

i'll put it in feedback when i get a chance

[woeful skiff]

You can get a stackable to place on top of a pole, you just have to point at exactly the right pixel to make it happen. It's finicky.

[dense dove]

Ah right. I'll see if i can get it to work, but definitely still will put it in feedback

also, according to the calculator, the manifold would work for anything higher than such a low output. with only 5 i wouldn't be able to feed in the assembler with 3/min and be efficient

but, i can't tell it that the second machine only takes 1, and not three

I'll trust your advice and see

I found your reddit post, greeny. very well explained

posting it here for posterity

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/btexf7/satisfactory_saturdays_2_balancers_vs_manifolds/

[wind spade]

well yeah, if you have assembler that eats more than 50%, it won't work

[dense dove]

well

one eats 3, the other eats 1

[wind spade]

or rather, it won't work at 100%

yeah, with storage it's always a bit more complicated

[dense dove]

last would go to storage, but that would cause it to be inefficient until storage is full

[wind spade]

it it wasn't for the storage, simple splitter would work

[dense dove]

Considering I do want the extra to go in storage ill go for a balancer here. it should work fine for the rest, though

[wind spade]

well you can always go for 2 splitters into the first machine

that'll work

[dense dove]

3 plates for modular frames, 1 for smart plating

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--Storage
   \/   |
   M-A  A

[dense dove]

-S-S-S-S
V | |

cool, that works

much, much easier than what i had planned lol

load balance 5 into 5, then merge 3

[wind spade]

yeah, balancers may be cool, but there's almost always easier way to do it

[light shell]

how do i balance 2 outputs into 4 inputs?

[wind spade]

@light shell merge into one, then do a manifold

[light shell]

im early into the game my belts would just become a choke at that point i think?

[wind spade]

all 4 inputs need the same?

then just split each of the outputs into 2

[light shell]

3 iron bars 1 iron plate

thats how i have it now

and one is not able to keep up while the other is backlogged

[wind spade]

well 3 rods + 1 iron plate constructors need 75 ingots/min

[wind spade]

so you can't feed that with 2 smelters (that's only 60 ingots/min)

[light shell]

hence why i want a balancer to even them out and get the most bang that i can get

[wind spade]

well you should rather remove one of the rod constructor to have it running at 100%

or add a miner/smelter

[dense dove]

yeah, balancers may be cool, but there's almost always easier way to do it -greeny

^ 😛

[light shell]

ok even if i add another line, i have 3 outputs going to 4 inputs. how do you balance them?

[wind spade]

well one smelter can feed one constructor for plates

or 2 constructors for rods

[light shell]

is there a handy chart somewhere with a flow chart of how much needs how many constructors of what?

[wind spade]

https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev/

this gives you SOME info, I'm still working on the production tool itself

[dense dove]

Very nice tool. If you don't mind a suggestion, I feel like if the column "Ingredients" would be on the left instead of "Products", it would be allow for reading production from left to right, might be more intuitive

[glacial hemlock]

I would rather keep increasing my ingot production to prevent machine starves, instead of building balancers in early game

If upstream material is not enough, then the downstream factories will never be efficient

[wind spade]

@dense dove I made it in the same way as it was before, but it indeed makes a bit more sense 🤔 I'll think abut separating the products from ingredients as well

[dense dove]

like in the main list, hasve different categories?

[wind spade]

I mean visually

[dense dove]

Right

[wind spade]

I've tried making the products bold (as well as reversing the order as you suggested), what do you think?

[dense dove]

i see the order is different, definitely makes more sense to read

but the products bold? ii got the page open here and im trying to see what changed

[wind spade]

... (as well as reversing the order as you suggested), ...

oh, it's not updated online yet

I'm just testing it on my pc

[dense dove]

in your screenshot, i noticed the order, but i didnt noticed the bold products

I am comparing your screenshot to the webpage, to see what changed

[wind spade]

ah I see

[dense dove]

And I can see the order is swapped, which is good

But i do not see what you mean by "'made the product bold"

do you mean the text is bolder?

[wind spade]

the text is bold

[dense dove]

i didnt notice a difference

from the website right now, it is alreadybold

from what i see at least

[dense dove]

Oh, but what i see is that ingredients are no longer bold, though

which makes products stand out more

so yeah okay

[wind spade]

it wasn't bold before 😉 just big font size

[dense dove]

ah right

but yes, very good indeed!!

[wind spade]

(also some color changes and stuff)

[dense dove]

i likey. Good work 😄

[dense dove]

well then, now i spent too long just chatting and burnt thru all my biofuel, gonna have to go farm for more wood

Neat, definitelly stands out more, easy to read

easier on the eyes

[foggy saffron]

if i have one mk3 miner on an impure iron node, how many foundries should i splitting that into if i'm using mk4 belts

mk5 is overkill right?

[manic storm]

mk5 is technically overkill, but if you have alclad up and running there's no reason not to use them

as for the split, just take the output rate of the miner and divide it by the input rate of the foundry (which will be 120 and 45 at 100% iirc)

[foggy saffron]

gotcha, thanks for the help

[upbeat tide]

Mk3 miner on a impure will max at 300 a min at 250% OC

Normal maxes at 600 and pure maxes above mk5 capability, at 1200

[spring flame]

I made a layout for computers, lmk what you all think, its my next component. I havnt actually built this yet either.

purple 1's are energy boosts

[wind spade]

you can just build more buildings instead of overclocking and save on power 😉

[spring flame]

is overclocking inefficient then?

[wind spade]

yeah it is

[spring flame]

my thought with the crude oil node specifically is its easier to use an overclock than to use a second oil node

[wind spade]

miners are an exception as they are limited by nature

but otherwise overclocking shouldn't be used unless you don't care about power or you're in a really small space

[spring flame]

i have overclocked so many things lol, i should probably go change that

[wind spade]

e.g. 200% OCed constructor uses 12.1 MW, while two 100% constructors use 8 MW in total

again, it's not a big issue, but if you OC on larger scale, you start wasting a lot of energy just because you didn't build more buildings instead

[upbeat tide]

Only two steuctures should ever be overclocked.

Miners and oil pumps.

[spring flame]

i didnt know it was that crazy inefficient, wow. I bet im wasting a lot of power

thanks for the tip tbh

[upbeat tide]

Water extractors are in a MAYBE catagory depending on how much water you have access to

[wind spade]

fyi the formula is [power] * [OC] ^ 1.6

where OC is overclock percetnage / 100

so for the constructor example, it would be
4 (constructor power) * 2 ^ 1.6 (2 = 200% OC, 2.5 would be 250%)

[upbeat tide]

And power generators have a more ugly overclock curve, forget exact formula tho

[wind spade]

it also means that underclocking is even more efficient, so if you're crazy enough and have a lot of space, you can e.g. build everything at 50% OC and use just ~65% of power

[upbeat tide]

Thats what I do with water extractors, but 84% each and 3 per pipe

[wind spade]

power generators actually don't lose efficiency (you still get same amount of energy per piece of coal), but their power output doesn't scale well (250% gen produces 200% power while using 200% fuel). exact formula is [power gen] * [OC] ^ (1/1.3)

[novel canyon]

As a personal example, I have 2 Refineries making Aluminium Scrap, from the output of 4 making Solution, which produce enough for 1.33 recurring refineries. I chose to underclock to 66% on each so they both run at 100% rather than have 1 running at 100% and the other at 33%

[wind spade]

yeah that as well.
ranked from best to worst in terms of power consumption:

• 2 @ 66%
• 1 @ 100% + 1 @ 33%
• 1 @ 133%

[upbeat tide]

My alu system

• 3.75 refineries making alu solution, makes 300m3 solution and 75 silica. Takes in 375m3 water and 262.5 bauxite
• 3.33 refineries using electrode scrap, makes 500 (rounded up from 499.7) scrap and takes in 300m3 solution and 100 coal and creates 100m3 water
• 2.08 roundries making ingots, takes in the 500 scrap and 292 silica. Makes 166.4 ingots.
• 2.77 assemblers making alclad, takes in the ingots along with 63 copper ingots and makes 83.1 alclad

That system is then repeated 9.8 times, uses all of my 2580 bauxite and makes a total of 819 alclad a min

And yea I did set a foundry to 8%, still LUL to myself but it works

[novel canyon]

My current Steel production line I'm working on uses:
32 Foundries taking in 1440 Iron Ore (6 Mk.3 Miners on Normal) and 1440 Coal (2 Mk.3 Miners on Pure OC to 150% produce 720 Coal/min)
split into 2 sections of 16 foundries each doing 720 of each material/min.
This then goes into 47 Constructors.
44 making Steel Pipe and 3 making Steel Beam (because at this point I have nothing except manual building projects that require Steel Beam)
which uses all 1440 Steel Ingots to produce 880 Steel Pipe and 45 Steel Beam/min

[upbeat tide]

Do you have the aolid steel alt?

It uses iron ingots instead of ore but makes more steel

[novel canyon]

I also have the coke steel alt

tbf though, I think this production line will be alright for me

[upbeat tide]

Better screenshot

[novel canyon]

By changing to 48 Constructors all making Steel Pipe, this is my new Steel to Heavy Mod Frame Flow chart for this facility.

[glacial hemlock]

great. 22.5/min is quite large

[novel canyon]

I still need to find all the Mod.Frame I'm supposed to be feeding into this system though too

Oh fabulous, if I upgrade my Iron facility again I might be able to pull it off, barely.

[glacial hemlock]

usually a factory need to rework a few times, unless you have designed it based on the final layout since the beginning.

[dusky quail]

yea I've played for almost a month, and only changed my mindset about this yesterday

think it's better to (semi-)abandon old bases and move on to building a new one when you find a better power source (e.g. biomass > coal > oil)

[glacial hemlock]

of course!

if you want to get back some of the building cost, you can dismantle the old factory too, but only after the new factory is running.

hmm, left 3 steps to do.

[novel canyon]

oh, don't get me wrong, I've built and rebuilt. I've rebuilt my Iron facility twice from the ground up, and now I'm looking at the interactive map and thinking about moving it away from my main base so that it can be next to water so I can use the Pure Iron Ingot Alt.

[glacial hemlock]

i see.

try do pure iron ingot at a separated outpost

[novel canyon]

Yeah, once I move Iron the only thing "local" to my Main base will be copper

[marble falcon]

anyone know any resources for finding sequences of fractional approximations? i.e. going from reduced fractions with large numerators/denominators to reduced fractions with smaller numerators/denominators within a small epsilon of the original number.

[upbeat tide]

20 supercomputers a min plan

The crystal ocilator portion is already done thankfully

[marble falcon]

for a small scale example, if your build calls for 3:8 machines, you might as well build 1:2

[upbeat tide]

I find it easier to underclock to necessary amount.

Such as if it calls for 3.8 machines, I build 4 and underclock one to 80%

[marble falcon]

this is mostly a thought experiment

[upbeat tide]

I sometimes split a structure. For example my heavy oil residue (alt) system uses 22 refineries, some of those are split 50/50 for oil balancing

[marble falcon]

but also, that 3:8 was a ratio, 3 machines feeding 8 machines

which might as well be 4 machines feeding 8. (4 : 8 = 1 : 2 )

[upbeat tide]

Ooh, manifold all day there

You dont need exact balancing in this game 90% of the time

[marble falcon]

nah, this is for breaking builds down, instead of building the full 3+8 machines in one block, you build 4 blocks of 1+2

this is pretty much the opposite of balancing, since I'm looking a "best" number of extra machines to build

[upbeat tide]

Aah

[glacial hemlock]

@marble falcon you have grasped the key idea of the game

modular building is exceptionally important when the production of one cluster is near to the capacity of a belt, in that case, can be more beneficial than manifolds.

[upbeat tide]

Thats exactly why I chose to use mk3 belts for my alclad factory. No need for more per cluster

[glacial hemlock]

modular building example

[marble falcon]

Yes thank you, I was wondering if anyone knew any mathematical resources (papers, blog posts) relating to the underlying principles

[glacial hemlock]

papers? no. Calculator, yes. Most people are using calculators.

usually we start small with manual calculation, but once we get past a certain point, it is better to just use calculators.

[marble falcon]

Sorry, yes. I suppose I should come clean about what started this thought process. I saw someone make an offhand complaint about the numbers for making turbo fuel. A bit of jiggery-pokery with Daniel's calculator, and I found that for 3000 turbo fuel/m, you get some nice round building counts. But 160 tf : 96 compact coal : 45 oil residue (plus the dilute fuel refinarys) makes for a large build

And after spending too long in the shower thinking about how to modularise it, I was wondering if there were any tools or algorithms to calculate it instead

[wise obsidian]

for oil products, just divide it into sections of 300 crude oil

[marble falcon]

This is, of course, a ludicrous amount is fuel, hence "thought experiment"

[upbeat tide]

Yea for liquids I also divide into groups of 300, thats why my alclad factory is the way it is.

3.75 alumina solution refineries makes 300m3 and 3.32 electrode alt aluminum scrap refineries will use that 300m3

Visual representation

[glacial hemlock]

@marble falcon currently there is no tool that can modularize for you, you have to come out for your own. There are 2 approaches, whether to limit a belt to 780 (or 480), or to limit a pipe to 300, then scales down accordingly.

you can even have nested modules.

mu turbo fuel module

and remember to make the module in square / rectangular shape for easier tiling.

[upbeat tide]

And if you want to build in a circle, your gonna have to do alot of pre planning, makes for some beautiful structures, but the planning is a killa

[glacial hemlock]

then each module has to be pie-shaped

[upbeat tide]

Yup. Saw some people in #screenshots doing hexagon shaped builds

And circular based setups

Anyway, 51 crystal ocilators.

And gonna rebuild my current 30/min setup to use stitched plates. Uses alot less iron ironiclly enough than normal RIP

Not sure what im gonna use 51 CO for yet, but I already use 2 normal raw quartz nodes for pure quartz crystal, so why not?

[wise obsidian]

200 nobelisk/ minute 👁️

for 51 oscillators

blow up the world

[upbeat tide]

Lol most likely will be crystal computers

Thinkin of doing 25 supercomputers/min

[glacial hemlock]

I would suggest you to build 41.1 / min insulated crystal oscillator. You will need quartz for something else. But it depends...

[upbeat tide]

Already have 6 normal raw quartz nodes marked for cheap silica

Already use 2 of em, 4 unused so far

[glacial hemlock]

how about 15570 cheap silica / min?

[upbeat tide]

Lol

[glacial hemlock]

short of 20 belts.

turbo motors ftw

[upbeat tide]

Well, that 6 nodes would make me 8400 total

But as I said, 2800 is already used for alclad 🙂

[upbeat tide]

So, looked up a infused CO recipe system and got this

Same use of 1200 raw quartz, but 93.3 CO now instead of 51.5

[glacial hemlock]

great

[wise obsidian]

it's what I use in my 130 oscillator satellite factory

complete overkill, I kinda thought oscillators played a bigger role

[upbeat tide]

They do, especially with alternate recipes for nuclear and computers for example

[wise obsidian]

I'm just at a point in my playthrough that I don't care about bigger numbers

20 coupons shy of golden nut

and I dont care about nuclear tech at all

[glacial hemlock]

no nuclear and yet you are getting golden nut?

[wise obsidian]

turbofuel is all you need

[upbeat tide]

Tore apart my old 1200m3 oil fed plastic and rubber facility and replacing with this monstrocity

[lime pilot]

Neat

[upbeat tide]

Only thing that sucks is the removal of petro coke, but can live without it

Just realized the insane size of this process

[glacial hemlock]

You need 10GW to power these lol

[upbeat tide]

Worth it IMO

Gonna use a ton of rubber and plastic anyway for turbo motors, super computers, nuclear, etc

Also gonna strip down my OG turbofuel factory and make a second 1333m3/ min turbofuel facility, total of 2666m3 and 588 fuel gens

All of this from 9 oil pipelines

4 to the super sized rubber/plastic, 4 to turbofuel, and the last one is a 150m3 pipe not sure what to do with yet.

[glacial hemlock]

i have only 900 rubber + plastic at the moment

[upbeat tide]

Yea was gonna do that but I used 4 300m3 oil pipes for my old setup so thought, eeh fk it

[glacial hemlock]

just disconnect the feeding pipe and...... you are done.

[cedar mica]

I recommend to mix in, Polymer Resin alt. Depending how exact numbers, that can save you some oil

Like if you need more resin, to kick start the chain

[upbeat tide]

I make some resin already, basic turbofuel setup still intact

Just gonna store it for a bit

[wise obsidian]

might I recommend you forget the HOR alt

and instead use the polymer resin alt

FILTERS TO COVER THE WORLD

[upbeat tide]

Eeh dont like the resin alt.

[glacial hemlock]

me too.

I use the exact same setup as Verios44, but at half scale, it works great .

[copper dragon]

Anyone have a good coal generation setup?

[upbeat tide]

Basics

[copper dragon]

I might just move everything over water

[glacial hemlock]

https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Coal_Generator check the images at the bottom

[zinc blaze]

Hey @glacial hemlock Not sure how the math works out completely but is it decently efficient to be getting 4 frames a minute from 112 ingots a min

[glacial hemlock]

you have alts? because my figure is for full-original recipes

alts can save up to 80.6% of iron ores

but still, 4 HMF / min should be equal to 191.2 iron / min unless you are using compacted steel

[zinc blaze]

Oh i was talking normal modular my bad

[fierce ruin]

so,,,,i was comparing the max tier miner and max tier belt,,,max tier belt doet the 780 / minute,,,,but if i jamn 3 crystals into the miner mk3,,,it will mine faster then 780....am i missing something ?

[woeful skiff]

What you're missing is probably that the game is unfinished.

[fierce ruin]

well,,,i had an idea that maybe a splitter can be glued straight into the miner dividing it in 3x780

buuuuut yea, that would be the other option, so its jus missing features ok

[covert edge]

same for the pipe

pure node give 240/min without powershard

[vale jungle]

The problem with attaching a splitter or merger directly to outputs or inputs of buildings is that you can't attach conveyor belts on all the inputs or outputs because they'll be encroaching on the building's clearance, which is only allowed when they're attached directly to the building.

[sand garnet]

@fierce ruin it's physically impossible to attach them straight to the output, as it would break the game

you could just teleport items across the map because splitters and mergers don't have a built in max speed

just chain splitters in a row attaching them to eachother and boom, teleporter.

[dull rover]

Well, main point is that currently, the output of your mines is limited by the fastest a conveyor belt can go. So unless the devs add a Mk.6 belt, allow us to overclock belts or directly attach splitters to a buildings output, this will likely remain as such

[sand garnet]

yes

its just something you need to accept

it can be seen as a sort of teaser for what's to come

[dull rover]

Yeah, it's not like the current build is the final one, so there is still some hope

[sand garnet]

jace already confirmed we're getting mk6 belts eventually

[dull rover]

Guess that settles it then

[woeful skiff]

It really wouldn't make any sense in a finished game, so in my furthest save I just assume we'll get the belts someday and I've been planning my builds with that speed belt in mind, although to be honest for that big a content update I'll probably start a new game anyway.

"that speed" for me is what the current maxed out miner can provide

[dull rover]

Yeah, plus remember Update 3?
Oh, you had a bunch of coal power plants near a node? Well, sucks to be you, none of those would make any power until you get the water to them...

[woeful skiff]

I never even opened up my u2 game in u3 😄

[dull rover]

Makes sense, since you'd have to do some fairly significant changes just to get everything to work again

[sand garnet]

I did, and slowly watched the fuel storages deplete over time lol

now my 440h save has no power except geothermal lol

[dull rover]

It's something

[sand garnet]

so whenever I load it up to test stuff, I have to connect biomass burners lmao

[dull rover]

Keep calm and call doom guy

He can help you with the chainsaw

[sand garnet]

i hav eplenty alien carapace and organs stored up for emergencies

[covert edge]

Go for liquid biofuel maybe ?

[sand garnet]

for testing i dont need that much fuel

[dusky quail]

how is an endgame factory designed? manifolds for 780 ore? how many of such manifolds for each metal?

[glacial hemlock]

150 turbo motors. Most intermediate resources involves 5 digits

[dense leaf]

@dusky quail You'll likely have to have a handful of different concepts at hand to deal with the various recipes since they vary greatly in floor plan and belt density, ie. some recipes take 45 items to produce 15, some take 5 to produce 260

[dusky quail]

@dense leaf hmm that makes sense - I'm already having way different sized factories for Iron vs Copper

[upbeat tide]

And then you can create quite complicated processes. For example you can use a chain of alternates to turn 300 crude into 900 plastic or rubber

Uses a toj of space and alot of extra steps is the only downside

[dusky quail]

yea I was really just thinking about how much "factory" do I really need - a single pure node can do 780 which is already way more than I currently need

thanks for the replies

[upbeat tide]

You must not know of the pure ingot alternates than...

Copper, 780/15 = 52 refineries * 37.5 = 1950 ingots
Iron, 780/35= 22.28 refineries * 65 = 1448.5

Copper, iron, caterium, concrete, quartz crystal, and copper sheets have recipes like that. All are game changers

All they need is water and a refinery

[dense leaf]

The thing that makes endgame a bit of a struggle is that some recipes require subcomponents from 6 or sometimes even more raw materials which are intentionally spread out across large distances on the map to pose a challenge. Most of the time you also need non-trivial quantities of these, especially if you multiply out from a full miner's-worth of the scarcest resource

[upbeat tide]

I mean take alclad for examplw, there is 7800 bauxite on the map and its clustered in 3 ish regions.

The alternate recipies also become mandatory. Electrode scrap, cheap silica, pure copper, etc

[dusky quail]

@upbeat tide I do, that's the whole reason I was asking if manifolds do 780 of an ore or metal

[upbeat tide]

I dont do 780 for my bauxite feeders. I use mk3’s.

Each cluster needs 262.5

So, I use a bauxite balancer to take in the ore from the nodes and seperate it evenly

[dusky quail]

so basically each ingot manifold is limited by 780 ingot output, and uses water alt recipe

thanks, that was what I was looking for

[upbeat tide]

@glacial hemlock has another way to do it as well that is different than mine

Based mine off solution filling up a single pipe

This is my physical topology for my bauxite balancer

Belt no.7 actually is a mk5 because it has an extra 217 bauxite on it that I split off to a smaller, final cluster

[upbeat tide]

Old image but a ingame picture. Was before I decided to use my excess bauxite

[dense leaf]

@dusky quail I tend to favor the balancing approach as well, however I don't use the electrode alt. I simply don't have any practical reason to conserve bauxite to such a degree. I'm sure we'll get more bauxite-related elements in later updates that might motivate a shift in that regard

[upbeat tide]

Wait til you need to pump out a ungodly amount of heat sinks

And the removal of petro coke for me is even more beneficial. I can use the diluted fuel and recycled plastic/rubber sustem to make obsene amounts of those

[dense leaf]

I know, but essentially heat sinks are my only industrial need for bauxite. You're essentially trading bauxite for oil or uranium due to the substantial increase in power needed to run the additional factory size

[dusky quail]

right, thanks for the examples

I mean I'm only at oil now but it's a good heads-up

[dense leaf]

Oil opens up a lot of new possibilities, take your time, explore it, take it slow. it's quite fun but I think U3 really stepped up floor-plan complexity on tier 4-5

Or rather, it split up the floor plan complexity of Tier 7 and gave you the major part earlier on, with some sprinkles later

[glacial hemlock]

adding water to Coal generators is also kinda stepped it up

[dense leaf]

That's really fun though and doesn't increase your floor plan much. Not as much as say going from 4-5 assemblers to 10-20 refineries in Tier 5 which almost ten-folds your space requirements without giving you any new tools to deal with it.

[upbeat tide]

Adding water to coal gens simply gets people introduced to piping and the insanity it can get to

[dusky quail]

yea pipes are big compared to belts, but eventually I learnt to just use high supports

[craggy delta]

im trying to split 300 into 240 and 60.. how do i do that

[sand garnet]

why split it? are you using the fully 300?

if so, just do literally any split you want/ manifold and it'll balance itself out over time

[heady smelt]

just connect two belts/pipes

[craggy delta]

no im doing it for a reason. I have 4 coal nodes and i need the 60 from each one to make 240 to split 120 each to feed into 16 coal gens

[wind spade]

just split from each node, merge them all together and feed it into gens

though I'd just put a few nodes dedicated to coal power and use the rest nodes for other coal stuff

[craggy delta]

my bad i have 3 coal

wait shoot..

[desert grove]

всем привет есть русские?

[wind spade]

@desert grove english

[desert grove]

I need help

please

[wind spade]

then state your question/problem.

[dusky quail]

yea splitters have 100% efficiency - if you split 300 into a building consuming 60 and it gets maxed, all 240 goes out the other outputs

@craggy delta

[craggy delta]

the other 240 isnt associated with the 60

[wise obsidian]

it's still the same material

if you have the necessary supply, your output lanes will be satiated

[wind spade]

@craggy delta there's no need to balance. Just split it normally and it'll balance automatically

[craggy delta]

just put 60 into 8 gens?

[wind spade]

120 into 8 gens

[dusky quail]

@craggy delta ok wait, you're trying to combine 240 + 60 and feed them into your coal gens?

[craggy delta]

greeny that wont work.

opposite znc

[wind spade]

8 gens need 120 coal

[craggy delta]

i know that

and i cant do that

[wise obsidian]

it's a blackbox of what mitch is trying to do

[wind spade]

then just connect 8 gens to a miner that produces 120/min 🤔

[craggy delta]

thats just a waste

[dusky quail]

so you're trying to combine 240 + 60 into 300, and feed them all into your coal gens?

[wind spade]

no?

[craggy delta]

i have 8 rows of 8 so 64 gens and 3 nodes

[wind spade]

which purity?

[craggy delta]

normal

[wind spade]

and what mk of miner?

[craggy delta]

mk2

[wind spade]

that's 120 coal/min.

with OC you can reach 300/min

[craggy delta]

yes

[flat yacht]

im running 24 on 360 p/min

[craggy delta]

and i have 8 things i need to feed in

[wind spade]

so at most 60 gens

[craggy delta]

i have 64.

see

[dusky quail]

I'm guessing you're running Mk 3 max too, so 270 * 3 = 810 coal/min

[wind spade]

build 63, 21 per row, each belt goes to one row

or just 20 per row to have the 60 that is the max you can feed

[craggy delta]

wdym 20

if i had faster belts would stuff change?

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G  G

20 G = 20 gens

[craggy delta]

yessss i knowwowowowpwow

[wind spade]

that's what I mean by 20

[craggy delta]

ok

[wind spade]

@dusky quail he said Mk2

[craggy delta]

does belt speed matter

[wind spade]

you need at least mk4 to carry the 300/min

[dusky quail]

@wind spade yea, meant belts

Mk3 belts do 270/min, so that's your limit per node /w OC

[craggy delta]

got it

[wind spade]

with mk2 miners and mk4 belts you can do 60 max gens

but there's no need to balance at all

[craggy delta]

and if i did 64 it would fluctuate power

[wind spade]

if you did 64 you could run into issues when you'll be using close to max power

[wise obsidian]

10 gens per row is optimal at that stage of the game; it will handle 150coal/min - and you can mirror it so that another row uses coal as well if you have 300coal/min instead. So you're set for both OC'd impure and normal nodes.

[craggy delta]

but then it gets annoying with extractors

ok ill just cut off 4 from my 64 and have 60 then i need to combine 2 300's to get 120 right?

[wind spade]

no

you just run the belt from your miner to the 20 gens

[craggy delta]

i dont have it in line like that though

[wind spade]

then split it

doesn't matter

it'll balance itself

[craggy delta]

yeah i have 4 then split it into 16

[wind spade]

just each coal node needs to be connected to 20 miners

[craggy delta]

i mean 8

[wind spade]

what 4 do you have?

[craggy delta]

belt

ok i currently have 3 belts running from 3 coal nodes

[wind spade]

yeah

[craggy delta]

and i need to split the miner's 300 from each to get it to the 4th belt

[wind spade]

take 1 belt, connect it to 20 gens

[craggy delta]

should i merge all 3 node miners?

[wind spade]

take 2nd belt, connect it to another 20 gens

[craggy delta]

i cant really get a belt behind it

the coal gens

i have it like 8x8

[dusky quail]

should i merge all 3 node miners?
don't think you can since your max belt is 270/min

[craggy delta]

well now i have 60 but yeah

im getting mk4.

could i have i have mk4

[dusky quail]

that's 480, still not enough to merge

[wind spade]

well you can always change your layout, move stuff around, I don't see any issue with that

[craggy delta]

i just dont want to

[wise obsidian]

3 double rows of 10, done; if you find yourself proposing strange solutions in the game, you're base 'problem' is usually illfounded

[craggy delta]

what can i do with my current seyup

[wind spade]

the soltuion is to rebuild your setup to allow for 3 connections (though I doubt you are llimited in such a way that you can't connect 3 belts there, I'd need a screenshot tho), if you don't want to accept that, then I can't really help you

[craggy delta]

i might have a solution

[wind spade]

if you share a screenshot of your setup, we can propose solutions

[craggy delta]

i sorta just found a pure coal node lmao

[wise obsidian]

so that's 3 rows of 10; until you get access to mk5 belts, at which point you can add the last (4th) for two complete double rows

is why 10 long is so nice - it handles impure, normal, and pure all nicely

and once you get mk3 miners in the far distance future, you can increase the length from 10 if you really want

[craggy delta]

im not using the whole pure node because i might wanna use it for something down the line

[dense dove]

--S--S--S--Storage
   \/   |
   M-A  A

@wind spade
Turns out, that didn't work to create a stable 5 input, 3-1-1 output. I had to do

--S--S--S--S--Storage
   \/    \/
   M-A   M-A

This works perfectly now

[grizzled walrus]

yo everyone, I just finish my first fuel energetic factories, but one think wrong in there:/
I have 3 petrol at 300m³that goes on 3x5 machines to transform it in fuel that can alim 13.3 fuel generator. I place 14 generator to use all of iot with one that receive normaly not enought but all of my fuel producers still full of fuel !
what the heck is that ?

[obsidian sun]

yall doing this shit and i cant even find water XD

[unkempt aspen]

@obsidian sun xD go north east

@grizzled walrus use industrial liquid storage and craft combined fuel

[grizzled walrus]

@unkempt aspen what is combined fuel ?
somthing in tier 7 and 8 ?
i didn't deblock them anymore

[sand garnet]

theres no such thing as combined fuel

[fiery locust]

@grizzled walrus The generators dont use the maximum fuel only when the output is maximum

your all 14 generator in maximum?

[grizzled walrus]

don't think so ...

[fiery locust]

thats why, only half power, need half fuel

[grizzled walrus]

need to put 2 shard on it so ?

[fiery locust]

whatever, you use just 3000MW.

as you can see your generator 41%. So its use the fuel 41%

[grizzled walrus]

ha ok sorry
missunderstant what you said, I'm not speaking english as good as you
I'm belgian and speak french in the base ^^

[fiery locust]

and im hungarian, so my english is bad too 😄

[grizzled walrus]

😆

tomorow i'll start to send all my overflow product in the sink XD

[fiery locust]

yes, thats what i wanna tell u, just sell it 🙂

[grizzled walrus]

i'm starting to automatise the computer
and the ammo for my rifle

so I have lot of things to do ^^

in any case, a big thanks to you@fiery locust 😉

[unkempt aspen]

this is fuel for your jetpack or vehicules etc @grizzled walrus

sorry don't know how to say it in english

[wraith plover]

@umbral frost

[gleaming patio]

Iron and copper have a 1:1 ore/ingot ratio in smelters

[upbeat tide]

Pure copper is a 1:2.5 ratio
Pure iron is 1:1.85 ratio

Ore:ingot

[exotic swallow]

@unkempt aspen it's called "Packaged Fuel" in english. cheers

[unkempt aspen]

Thanks @exotic swallow !

[flat yacht]

is there a limit to how far you can take fluids up hill, my oil isnt coming any farther up after adding over 60 pumps

[glacial hemlock]

Space out pumps evenly

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TCtIrFemJ0o/Xk7tGBf7NyI/AAAAAAAAK1k/OBWzo1l4nwcPweH8Z9mfN1HXCyhuAyIHQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Ficsit_Pipline_Infograph_1_V2.png

[heady smelt]

@glacial hemlock can you explain last row? reason behind splitting pumps is to use already existing headlift or?

plus i would add buffers-deleting-headlift to this infographic

[glacial hemlock]

The 4th figure is kinda useless

[oblique hollow]

oh would you look at that.
4th figure purpose was to demonstrate: figure 3 is the wrong way to apply headlift to a split segment

also... Buffers dont delete Headlift?

[sand garnet]

buffers are basically very large pipes

they dont work like pumps or machines

[oblique hollow]

yep

still part of the fluid calculations according to Dylan

[sand garnet]

this is basically how a buffer is considered in-game

just a big pipe

[oblique hollow]

hence why they also generate headlift, in either direction

as far as i know they dont... cancel it

[sand garnet]

i dont think they do, no

[oblique hollow]

then again ever since the.... Global Situation.... i havent really been able to do more tests with the newer patches

[heady smelt]

they generate some amount of headlift depending on their fill but work just as pipes, but worse because they don't save headlift before buffers

[glacial hemlock]

the infograph regarding buffers need to be updated. they require head lift to be fully filled up, and they do not generate opposing head lift. But they stores head lift once they filled up, similar to vertical pipes.

btw the head lift for small and big buffers are 8m and 12m respectively.

[heady smelt]

this is especially evident if your pipe goes upwards for like 4 meters after output, if buffer is not full to some extend it will barely move liquid. they let it flow only parallel or below their output, so you need pump on horizontal pipe and then incline

[oblique hollow]

that far i was able to tell. also pumps have changed too in their unpowered state

i know i know, i just havent had the time

im fully aware of all the inaccuracies ever since the newer patches, especially the -Z0 fix

[glacial hemlock]

and pumps actually generates 20+2m head lift. Water and oil extractors generate 10+2m head lift

[oblique hollow]

their desciptions say 10 m though

[glacial hemlock]

yeah, kinda...

[oblique hollow]

20 % tolerance

[heady smelt]

i wonder how this works, cause when they do 22 headlift they warn you

[oblique hollow]

their cue should be better except for the louder thunk thunk

[heady smelt]

if you space pumps @20meters it will work fine or naw?

[oblique hollow]

buuut i think they did plan that

20 m is general norm and fine

22 is stretching it

[heady smelt]

does it affect flowrate?

[oblique hollow]

you run at risk

buuut up to exactly 22 i thik its fine

[heady smelt]

i like bad boys

i put pumps 21 meters apart

[fierce ruin]

oh damn

[glacial hemlock]

i put pumps 20 meters apart, measured center-to-center. But sometime i misplaced them by a meter or 2, and either works fine.

[oblique hollow]

Dunno if still accurate but this is what i tested a longer while ago

However this was below z0 i think

Need to repeat this experiment sometime in the future

[glacial hemlock]

that really looks like some real engineering graph.

[oblique hollow]

i am one. not joking. still in training but pretty much fully educated

[glacial hemlock]

wow

[oblique hollow]

thats why i get so picky with certain topics

[heady smelt]

true chad, respect

how to spot engineer: he has ruler to draw graphs 🙂

[glacial hemlock]

in high school, my lecturer always make meme of engineers vs physicist: engineers use tables and graphs, physicists use equations and theories.

[heady smelt]

duh
applied science vs theoretic one

[oblique hollow]

truth be told engineers gotta use both (...except maybe for the theories..... but only maybe)

[glacial hemlock]

true, nowdays as computers become more common, manual graphs is not as popular as before. Like 'to find the value of a, look at graph b place the ruler at the intersection of c and d and trace the point until it intersects axis e'

[oblique hollow]

have you ever seen a control loop and in general control engineering?

Laplace and tables and graphs everywhere

thank god theres software for that

im told MatLab is the goto for some of this

im really happy whenever i find aspects of this game where, if you are really bored, you could apply some real engineering to

[glacial hemlock]

control loop? heard before, but not sure how it is applied in real life situation

[oblique hollow]

basic example: heater and thermometer

[glacial hemlock]

i see

[oblique hollow]

most systems self regulate

but who has to do the math behind that?

[glacial hemlock]

i learnt that from gyroscope, it was a difficult topic

[oblique hollow]

a more extreme example: jets. you couldnt possibly fly them without their computers

aaand then again. someone has to tell it what to do with the sensor inputs