#math-and-meta | Satisfactory | Page 444

shrewd yacht Apr 1, 2020, 6:40 PM

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just looking at turbo motors and RCUs made me save and exit for now haha

vast copper Apr 1, 2020, 6:41 PM

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📎 unknown.png

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it'll be fun when I get to that point ^^

upper thunder Apr 1, 2020, 6:51 PM

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i need 37,5 iron for a constructor, but can only go with 37,4 or 37,6. Whats better? a bit more or less?

vast copper Apr 1, 2020, 6:51 PM

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how many wall between pumps ? 4 or 5 ?

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37.6, more is always better

boreal cypress Apr 1, 2020, 6:53 PM

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4 free walls

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5th is 20m

upper thunder Apr 1, 2020, 6:53 PM

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ok, Im just afraid of the overflow that i will have in 50 years XD

boreal cypress Apr 1, 2020, 6:54 PM

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50y? when update 4 is coming out?

sturdy belfry Apr 1, 2020, 7:05 PM

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Yo guys, for you, how many foundations is necessary (width and length) to have a plan that can go to the most complicated recipe ?
I would like to do an only place where i can make produce everything like smelters, constructors, assemblers etc.. (power is gonna be on a other place). I'm afraid of getting to short coming to uranium recipes.
I was thinking to do 60 width and 100 length.
What do you think ?

boreal cypress Apr 1, 2020, 7:05 PM

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thats enough :D

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you can even do it with 2x4 and building it all to the sky xD

sturdy belfry Apr 1, 2020, 7:07 PM

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I know, but i still want to stay close to the ground. I know hyper tubes exists, but i want my base, to not roll over gravity rules too much ^^

boreal cypress Apr 1, 2020, 7:09 PM

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than you need a lot more foundations

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i have 81x160 foundations just for nuclear fuel rod production

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and 80x111x4 for every other production :D

sturdy belfry Apr 1, 2020, 7:12 PM

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So what would be the right choice if i wanna separate my base, like uranium in a place, oil in another one etc...

boreal cypress Apr 1, 2020, 7:14 PM

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its up to you

upper thunder Apr 1, 2020, 9:05 PM

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Im finished with automating all things i have. only rotors need to be automated anymore. How to you like it?

📎 Satisfactory_basic_Production_part_2.png

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Any tips for improvement?

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Or do you see somewhere a misstake?

cedar mica Apr 1, 2020, 9:12 PM

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Interesting. It seems that with all the new recipes, sending a 60/m dedicated belt to storage, of everything, seems possible

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There is even head room

vast copper Apr 2, 2020, 12:42 AM

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Do pumps consume power even if they are empty or not pumping ?

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Seems like no

dark kelp Apr 2, 2020, 12:53 AM

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takes 2 seconds to test it...

vast copper Apr 2, 2020, 12:53 AM

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yeah I just did

dark kelp Apr 2, 2020, 12:54 AM

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its been my experience that things not doing anything, dont use power... so my assumption is no...

vast copper Apr 2, 2020, 1:37 AM

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I needed to know before connecting this

📎 unknown.png

dark kelp Apr 2, 2020, 1:38 AM

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ngl that looks like a massive waste of materials on pumps

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are you spacing them every 18-19m?

nimble knoll Apr 2, 2020, 1:41 AM

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looks like every 18-19cm

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 1:55 AM

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but it looks super trippy

dark kelp Apr 2, 2020, 2:55 AM

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also I just did a test... pumps are ALWAYS powered regardless of if water is being moved. their animation is going, or if water has stopped moving or if they are unable to punp (due to too large a elevation change) or if all storages are full and water requirements are met on the other side (for generators or refineries)

as far as I can tell there is no situation where pumps are not taking power...

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@vast copper definitely might wanna change your layout up.....

bleak cobalt Apr 2, 2020, 2:56 AM

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Where did you find the need to move that much liquid?

dark kelp Apr 2, 2020, 2:57 AM

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I mean late game youll need a few k/m of some resources to acomedate high level materials or power requirmenets...

bleak cobalt Apr 2, 2020, 2:57 AM

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True true

dark kelp Apr 2, 2020, 2:57 AM

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60 super computers / minute uses almost 10k oil/min worth of plastic.

pastel flax Apr 2, 2020, 2:57 AM

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Fluid flows through pumps even if they aren't powered, so they work as one way valves, but they won't add any height without power.

bleak cobalt Apr 2, 2020, 2:58 AM

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Makes sense

vast copper Apr 2, 2020, 3:39 AM

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looks like every 18-19cm
@nimble knoll every 20m, you can zoom in screenshot taken from far away and it's has this visual effect

worn moat Apr 2, 2020, 4:27 AM

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is a 48 -> 21 | 27 splitter even possible? without breaking it down into like 3 -> 1 | 1 | 1 splitters and re-merging it all

nimble knoll Apr 2, 2020, 4:51 AM

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use manifold splitting?

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 5:52 AM

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So in my preliminary work before updating my calculator, I've made a visualization of the entire recipe graph.

📎 graph.png

nimble knoll Apr 2, 2020, 5:53 AM

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um

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thanks i hate it

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i thought my notepad documents were bad

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 5:54 AM

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The boxes are recipes, the ovals are items.

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The red ovals are resources.

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Also I left out the recipes for unpackaging fluids.

nimble knoll Apr 2, 2020, 5:56 AM

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but the lines

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it's almost as bad as the satisfactory-calculator

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 6:01 AM

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The next step is to pick out just the subgraph for the oil stuff.

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Okay, here's just the stuff made in the refinery.

📎 oilgraph.png

nimble knoll Apr 2, 2020, 6:08 AM

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oh yeah i can understand that to a degree

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 6:09 AM

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Hmm, but I think it's missing something.

nimble knoll Apr 2, 2020, 6:09 AM

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what about residual plastic?

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is that there?

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 6:10 AM

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Ah, it's missing the petroleum coke recipe.

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Oh, it's missing a bunch of stuff.

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hah, one sec.

dark kelp Apr 2, 2020, 6:29 AM

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@worn moat

Take the 48 and remove 6

Using 3 consecutive 2:1 splitters the final result will give you a pair of 6s, re merge everything but a single 6 and then split the rest in half and add the 6 to the side you want to be 27. As far as I’m aware there is no other way to split resources like that

The other option would be to just flood both the 27 and 21 just by splitting to both and waiting for it to backlog

📎 image0.png

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 6:35 AM

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Okay, there we go:

📎 oilgraph.png

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That's the recipe graph of everything that uses the refinery.

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I could maybe throw in some colors to clarify things, but for a quick and dirty first pass, it will do.

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 6:42 AM

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You're missing diluted packaged fuel alt

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https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev/items/packaged-fuel

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Unless I'm blind

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@reef turtle

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 6:44 AM

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Ah! So I am.

glacial hemlock Apr 2, 2020, 6:44 AM

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@reef turtle you make the graph seems like you are making turbomotor until i click it open, lol

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 6:47 AM

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Added it:

📎 oilgraph.png

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 6:47 AM

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Also HOR alt

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 6:47 AM

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Ah, yes, I missed that, too.

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 6:47 AM

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https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev/items/heavy-oil-residue

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 6:47 AM

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I'm typing this up manually.

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And that recipe is categorized in a weird place.

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 6:48 AM

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Do you want me to export you list of all refinery recipes to check?

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 6:50 AM

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Added:

📎 oilgraph.png

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I think I've got it now

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 6:52 AM

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Well I don't see anything essential missing, but it's hard to check on phone :)

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 6:52 AM

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Here's the updated whole-graph image:

📎 graph.png

nimble knoll Apr 2, 2020, 6:52 AM

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ah my eyes

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 6:52 AM

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Looks pretty simple

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 6:52 AM

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Let me see if I can hack in some colors quick-like.

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(There's a sophisticated way to do it which minimizes shared colors on touching nodes, but I think I'll skip that for now...)

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 6:55 AM

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Would be nice to have each recipe combine colors of it's ingredients and each ingredient would have average color from all the recipes (and we start by giving some colors to raw items)

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Or it would look like a crap xD

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Oh and also loops

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Nvm

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 7:10 AM

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Well, that... sort of helps.

📎 graph.png

nimble knoll Apr 2, 2020, 7:10 AM

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debatable

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 7:18 AM

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Colorized refinery graph:

📎 oilgraph.png

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So I hadn't looked too closely at the aluminum stuff until now.

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Making alumina solution also produces a small amount of silica as a byproduct.

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And then you need a larger amount of silica when using the base aluminum ingot recipe.

upper thunder Apr 2, 2020, 7:28 AM

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My Mother has eye cancer, now i have it too XD

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idk what is happining there XD

midnight folio Apr 2, 2020, 7:53 AM

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Math on (If mining every node on maximum and turn all mats into products) Energy consumption 😄 ?

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 10:07 AM

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I'm think I'm coming to the conclusion that you basically need a sink hooked up to your polymer resin output.

sand garnet Apr 2, 2020, 10:08 AM

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why not just.. make plastic with it

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all you need is water and resin

glacial hemlock Apr 2, 2020, 10:08 AM

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Why not just spam make fabrics

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 10:09 AM

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The way I'm thinking of it is: Pick an item. Suppose every other item is backed up. Can I make more of that item?

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So suppose plastic and rubber are full.

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Now make fuel.

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Priority splitters would help a lot, but c'est la vie.

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Maybe I will make that version with the many splitters/mergers after all.

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 10:24 AM

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Or train station

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 10:25 AM

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Takes a whole lotta space to do that.

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 10:26 AM

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1 train for all resources

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Or a tractor

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 10:30 AM

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In any case, I'm thinking that with some manner of priority splitters set up to bin excess polymer resin and petroleum coke, you can have a totally resilient oil processing system.

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But I still want to run some more numbers and actually build it.

rugged cairn Apr 2, 2020, 3:20 PM

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I know we don't normally speak mods here, but I have a math question about a mod to see if I got this right. Is that ok?

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 3:24 PM

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just pretend it's not a mod: D

woeful skiff Apr 2, 2020, 3:24 PM

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🤷 I don't care but I think the motivation is that it would get confusing to be talking about modded mechanics, and misleading to new people who'd have a hard time discerning what's in the game and what isn't. So in that spirit, probably not okay, not that I have the authority to say no.

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But if it's really quick...

rugged cairn Apr 2, 2020, 3:26 PM

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well shoot. Now that I'm trying to explain it I'm confusing myself even more! lol

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 3:28 PM

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post it, we answer it and delete it okay? :D

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so no new people getting confused

spice holly Apr 2, 2020, 3:28 PM

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It hurts itself in confusion!

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 3:28 PM

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it was very effective

rugged cairn Apr 2, 2020, 3:28 PM

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ya, I'm trying to write it so I don't confuse everyone even more.

spice holly Apr 2, 2020, 3:29 PM

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We can be confused together

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 3:29 PM

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we can be fusion together

rugged cairn Apr 2, 2020, 3:31 PM

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sorry.

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ok, thanks for helping guys

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 3:34 PM

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np ^^

uncut pine Apr 2, 2020, 4:14 PM

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whats the best alt for heavy modulare frames? 😮

dark wadi Apr 2, 2020, 4:24 PM

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Heavy Encased Frame for me. Heavy Flexible Frame, can make more/min but you add rubber to the mix and that is why I prefer the other one. The Encased Frame one, uses the same resources as the original, but you don't need screws, they are replaced with concrete, witch you need to make the Encased Industrial Beam.

uncut pine Apr 2, 2020, 4:26 PM

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okay^^

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but rubber for concrete? when you need this for the EiB

dark wadi Apr 2, 2020, 4:28 PM

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??? the original ingredients (Mod Frame, Steel Pipe, Encased I-Beam, Screw). Heavy Encased Frame (Mod Frame, Steel Pipe, Encased I-Beam, Concrete). Heavy Flexible Frame (Mod Frame, Rubber, Encased I-Beam, Screw).

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So Flexible needs more Modular frame, more Encased I-Beam, More Screws.

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Encased needs less Modular Frame, slightly more Steel Pipe, slightly less Encased I-Beam -> output goes up by about 1/2 from 2 -> 2.8125/min

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Concrete I find very easy to make, and I almost always have an excess of it. So the fact that I can remove screws from the recipe and use my concrete and keep everything else the same and gain more in output is a win for me.

uncut pine Apr 2, 2020, 4:33 PM

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yes i saw this all in the wiki...
BUT i need the double amount for Beams, more of double of Pipes AND Concrete only for the production. but okay i will thinking what is a good alt for my, thanks

dark wadi Apr 2, 2020, 4:34 PM

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Find the alt for Encased Industrial Pipe. That should really make your Encased Industrial Beam production much better.

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I say easier in this way. Encased I-Beam (24/min Steel Beam, 30/min Concrete) -> 6/min

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Encased I-Pipe (28/min Steel Pipe, 20/min Concrete) -> 4/min

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So at first it looks like it's worse output.

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 4:39 PM

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https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev/items/heavy-modular-frame

dark wadi Apr 2, 2020, 4:39 PM

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But to make steel Pipe it's (30/min Steel Ingot) -> 20/min Steel Pipe. Steel Beam is (60/min Steel Ingot) -> 15/min Steel Beam. So I can use the same amount of steel ingot and have 40/min steel pipe vs 15/min Steel Beam. So I can take the same input for Steel Ingot, and have almost enough to make 2 Encased I-Pipe (It's really 1 1/2 ish).

uncut pine Apr 2, 2020, 4:42 PM

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okay, this recipe i us it rn

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so im looking for it ^^

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thx to greeny too 😉 cant wait you finished your update 3 c:

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how many frames/m makes you with that rn?

dark wadi Apr 2, 2020, 4:48 PM

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From the #faq check out (https://daniel2013.github.io/satisfactory/calculator) and use it to plan out the recipe. You can then see what fits best for you given your set up.

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That would be easier to compare the results.

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I say that b/c I'm not at my computer right now. Technically I'm "working" so I can't play at the moment.

uncut pine Apr 2, 2020, 4:49 PM

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okay^^

uncut pine Apr 2, 2020, 5:05 PM

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is turbofuel worth or same like in update 2?

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 5:16 PM

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its super worth

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Fuel gen use:
fuel 15m³/min
turbo fuel 4,5m³/min

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so turbo fuel can provide more than 3 times as much as fuel

uncut pine Apr 2, 2020, 5:21 PM

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okay 😄 so with heavy turbo fuel or normal turbo fuel?

molten falcon Apr 2, 2020, 5:21 PM

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both

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depending on if fuel is a byproduct or a main is what type of turbo fuel you will choose

uncut pine Apr 2, 2020, 5:24 PM

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yea okay!

upper thunder Apr 2, 2020, 5:28 PM

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Here is my final Plan for the basic Production. Do you like it? Any mistakes or ideas for improvment you see?

📎 Basic_Production.png

glacial hemlock Apr 2, 2020, 5:41 PM

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Manifold instead of balancers

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 5:42 PM

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and dont use overlocked machines

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only miners

upper thunder Apr 2, 2020, 5:48 PM

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Are manifolds machines that I dont know?

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Why is overlocking machines bad?

idle vigil Apr 2, 2020, 5:48 PM

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manifolds are just splitters in a line instead of trying to split everything evenly

upper thunder Apr 2, 2020, 5:49 PM

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Ok, I will look for a tutorial or something

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 5:49 PM

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overlock machines is a waste of shards, power and so xD

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200% machine is using like 400% power

idle vigil Apr 2, 2020, 5:50 PM

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it's really a preference, if you like splitting that way, go ahead. It only gets out of hand when people are trying to split 7 lines into 3 or something odd

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that's a bad example now that I think of it :p

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 5:50 PM

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manifold is just easier and u can easily expand it

upper thunder Apr 2, 2020, 5:51 PM

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Ok, I will use the tips in my next setup, ty

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 5:51 PM

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np :)

upper crater Apr 2, 2020, 6:08 PM

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ned help spliting got 1200 resorces and net split tham in 240 resorces for 5constructors

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 6:09 PM

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why not manifold/overflow?

upper crater Apr 2, 2020, 6:09 PM

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?

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 6:16 PM

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Bunch of splitters in a line

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@upper crater how many lconveyer belts

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Two?

upper crater Apr 2, 2020, 6:16 PM

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i think got mk4 only

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 6:17 PM

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How many conveyer belts are you bringing it in on

upper crater Apr 2, 2020, 6:18 PM

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non i got 1200 outcom. ned to split it so i can put in 240 in 5 constructs

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isnt there som program who helps ?

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 6:18 PM

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Sigh

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Alright, you have mk4s

upper crater Apr 2, 2020, 6:18 PM

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yes

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 6:19 PM

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So what you're going to want to do is take the three, put a splitter on each of them

hazy kettle Apr 2, 2020, 6:19 PM

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480 each? so three conveyors?

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 6:19 PM

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Place three different mergers

upper crater Apr 2, 2020, 6:19 PM

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ou wait

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 6:19 PM

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Then connect each splitters output to a different merger

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That gives you equal lines

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Now, it's time to create the 3-5 split

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So here, you're going to take the initial input and split it by two

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The one going to the left will go into a splitter to turn it into three outputs

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The one going to the right does the same, however, the third input goes back to the merger that you place at the beggining

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Replicate that on each 3 outputs

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And now you have 15 outputs

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Merge 3 of them

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Each

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Now you have 5 lines of rp

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240

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Here, I'll even draw upa blue print for rhis

upper crater Apr 2, 2020, 6:24 PM

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i got 8 refinerys whic ech gives out 150 so together its 1200

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 6:25 PM

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where is @wind spade when we need him xD

upper crater Apr 2, 2020, 6:27 PM

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basicly 8 ref. 1 producing 150 all 1200 ned that amount in 5 asemblers bu 240 each

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 6:27 PM

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Well

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That's easy theb

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Just add on a couple of mergers

upper crater Apr 2, 2020, 6:28 PM

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if i merge tham its 300 or 450

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 6:29 PM

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wut

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 6:29 PM

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Here

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 6:29 PM

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what do you demand mortal

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 6:29 PM

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S not the most effective thing

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But it works

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Greeny, they want a 8-5 splitter

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Im sending them one rit now

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 6:30 PM

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We have the topic again between manifold and splitting

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I'm not as good at explaining what manifold is like you

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 6:31 PM

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manifold good splitting useless

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both work the same in the end

harsh fractal Apr 2, 2020, 6:31 PM

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manifold is great, i just wish i had faster belts for when i max out the mk5

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quickwire smh

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 6:31 PM

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manifold has slower start up time, but much faster build time

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 6:31 PM

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And fewer headaches

wind spade Apr 2, 2020, 6:32 PM

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manifold is easier expanded, can work with different speeds etc

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 6:32 PM

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@upper crater just use manifold and not splitting items :D

harsh fractal Apr 2, 2020, 6:32 PM

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i end up doing stacked manifolds with the uppers feeding to the lowers later on when belt capacity is maxed, is that the normal way to handle it?

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 6:33 PM

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Anyway

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I can make you guys a splitter thing if you want

upper crater Apr 2, 2020, 6:33 PM

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whats the termin manifold?

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 6:33 PM

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overflow method

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 6:34 PM

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Basically just a bunch of splitter in a row

woeful skiff Apr 2, 2020, 6:36 PM

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@harsh fractal I do stacked, or reload from the side, depending on which works better in the surroundings

harsh fractal Apr 2, 2020, 6:39 PM

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cool, good to know

upper crater Apr 2, 2020, 6:42 PM

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im trying to understant this blueprint u send me. basicly its fil 1 asembler and so its full it go to 2 and so on?

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 6:42 PM

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yes

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thats overflow/manifold

upper crater Apr 2, 2020, 6:44 PM

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ok. time to build andsee how its work in game. an i was trying to figut it out for 4 h whit spliting...

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 6:44 PM

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spliting is just Loss of time and takes up too much space

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Manifold may take longer for everything to run at 100%, but you can also do other things in time

devout magnet Apr 2, 2020, 6:55 PM

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what do you prefer, bolted iron plate (with screws) or stitched iron plate (with wires)? bolted are time efficient but need a lot of screws

limber cradle Apr 2, 2020, 7:59 PM

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screws are cheap af so i would go for bolted bois

violet stirrup Apr 2, 2020, 8:21 PM

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I am missing something with Greeny's consumption calculator? https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/consumption Been working great for everything, up to steel beams/pipes. For steel beams, showing a 1 to 1 ratio of foundries to constructors. But a foundry pushes out 45 steel ignots per minute, and constructor using 60 per minute (For steel beams that is)

Satisfactory Calculator

A powerful Satisfactory calculator, filled with features, supports overclocking, alternate recipes, live map, power calculations, etc.

boreal cypress Apr 2, 2020, 8:52 PM

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Greeny didnt updatet it to u3

violet stirrup Apr 2, 2020, 8:58 PM

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Ah, didn't realize that was affected.

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Glad I caught it early, because my steel beam factory was just finished, didn't take much adjusting to make it 100% efficient

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 9:36 PM

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Alright. I think today I am going to be crafting some linear programs to start playing with some actual oil numbers.

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Hopefully I can find where I stashed the code from when I did this same preliminary work for Factorio...

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(Ah! Found it.)

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 10:59 PM

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... Huh. That wasn't a result I expected.

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I realize this is probably incomprehensible on its own, but I got this for making 60 plastic/minute:

[('plastic', 0),
 ('recycled plastic', 5),
 ('residual plastic', 0),
 ('rubber', 0),
 ('recycled rubber', 0),
 ('residual rubber', 15),
 ('fuel', 0),
 ('residual fuel', 15/2),
 ('alt heavy oil residue', 155/16),
 ('alt polymer resin', 25/8),
 ('water', 60),
 ('crude oil', 765/16),
 ('surplus plastic', 0),
 ('surplus rubber', 0),
 ('surplus fuel', 0),
 ('surplus heavy oil residue', 0),
 ('surplus polymer resin', 0),
 ('surplus water', 0),
 ('surplus crude oil', 0),
 ('cost', -765/16)]```

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The numbers are recipe-rates.

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So apparently the most oil-efficient way to make plastic is: Turn oil directly into HOR and polymer resin; turn HOR into fuel; turn polymer resin into rubber; turn fuel + rubber into plastic.

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Net effect, it makes 60 plastic/minute using about 47.8 oil/minute and 60 water/minute.

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And no surplus production.

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Though this may be predicated on running with a perfect ratio, which is probably impractical. I should work out how this translates to numbers of refineries...

cedar mica Apr 2, 2020, 11:23 PM

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You can make is so that you get 3 rubber/plastic per 1 cruid oil. With the right setup

errant garden Apr 2, 2020, 11:23 PM

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If I remember

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That's the most efficent

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 11:25 PM

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I'd be interested in seeing what that setup is.

cedar mica Apr 2, 2020, 11:26 PM

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📎 Untitled-1.jpg

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 11:27 PM

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Ahh, the dilute fuel thing.

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I didn't include that in this linear program I was testing with.

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Which tool is that? I'd recognize dagre-d3 anywhere.

reef turtle Apr 2, 2020, 11:53 PM

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Adding the diluted fuel recipe does indeed arrive at that solution as well:

[('plastic', 0),
 ('recycled plastic', 170/27),
 ('residual plastic', 0),
 ('rubber', 0),
 ('recycled rubber', 70/27),
 ('residual rubber', 10/3),
 ('fuel', 0),
 ('residual fuel', 0),
 ('alt heavy oil residue', 20/3),
 ('alt polymer resin', 0),
 ('packaged fuel', 0),
 ('diluted fuel', 80/3),
 ('unpackage fuel', 80/3),
 ('packaged water', 80/3),
 ('water', 200/3),
 ('crude oil', 20),
 ('surplus plastic', 0),
 ('surplus rubber', 0),
 ('surplus fuel', 0),
 ('surplus heavy oil residue', 0),
 ('surplus polymer resin', 0),
 ('surplus packaged fuel', 0),
 ('surplus packaged water', 0),
 ('surplus empty canister', 0),
 ('surplus water', 0),
 ('surplus crude oil', 0),
 ('cost', -20)]```

#

That must eat a whole bunch of electricity.

vast copper Apr 3, 2020, 12:29 AM

#

the only cost of power is manhours invested in building infrastructure ^^

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 12:29 AM

#

And also the finite global supply of resources which can be turned into power.

vast copper Apr 3, 2020, 12:55 AM

#

Sure

#

You can get a trillion watts just with nukes though

#

1 million MH

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 12:58 AM

#

Sure.

vast copper Apr 3, 2020, 1:52 AM

#

Bauxite and Caterium are more limited than power resources, you'd run out of these long before running out of power if you're optimizing for top tier item production

errant garden Apr 3, 2020, 2:25 AM

#

Yah

#

Uranium is only goo for nukes

#

And I'll have to see the max you can pull off of uranium atm

#

I mean assuming that it's all still the same

#

Each rod would last five minutes

#

And produce 2500

#

The most efficent uranium cells

#

Produce 17.5 per minute for 20 per minute of uranium pellets

#

And that 17.5

#

Becomes 1.05 per minute for each 20 uranium per minute

#

We can produce in total

#

119.7 nuclear units per minute

#

Which would supply 598.5 nuclear plants

#

Giving us a grand total of

#

1,496,250 MWs

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 2:49 AM

#

MW per hour...? Those units don't seem right.

#

A MW is already a rate.

nimble knoll Apr 3, 2020, 2:52 AM

#

um no a MWh is a rate

#

(Megawatt-hour)

#

it's literally megawatts per hour

errant garden Apr 3, 2020, 3:01 AM

#

Aorry

#

My brain isn't working today

#

Just MWs

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 3:02 AM

#

MWh is a quantity. A Watt is a Joule/second.

#

A MWh is a MW times an hour, or a constant multiple of a Joule.

#

When you get your power bill, it's usually denominated in kWh or such, or the amount of energy you consumed.

vast copper Apr 3, 2020, 3:05 AM

#

anw, it's MW in the game

#

they corrected it

trim oar Apr 3, 2020, 3:37 AM

#

can someone please help me with math? i dont get it

#

so i have 1 nuc. fuel rod per minute and i have 2 nuc. power plants already. both are runnting at 100% and 2500 MW peak power. how many nuclear power plants can i build? (included the other 2 plants)

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 4:35 AM

#

I admit, I don't know off-hand the rate at which nuclear plants consume fuel rods.

#

I knew it at one point during Update 2, but I've totally forgotten it, and for all I know it changed in Update 3 anyway.

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 5:02 AM

#

Hmm. So I've got this idea that simply solving the entire recipe graph in a single linear program could be fast enough for the purposes of my calculator that I could do so in place of a graph traversal.

#

(The alternative is the hybrid approach I take in my Factorio calculator, where I extract a number of subgraphs which are then each solved as a linear program.)

#

The constraint is that it needs to be fast enough that I can compute the solution every time the user clicks on part of the UI.

#

The complexity is superlinear, I think something like O(n^3), so it's fairly sensitive to the size of the graph.

#

Right now the calculator requires the user to manually choose the alt recipe for each item. Being able to just throw the whole graph into one linear program would give it more of an ability to pick which recipes are most optimal.

#

And, I suppose, there are probably opportunities for optimizing the linear program solver that I wrote.

#

But there's some inherent slowness in there from the fact that I don't just use regular ol' floats for the calculations.

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 5:14 AM

#

is there a design somewhere for an optimal screw/reinforced plate/rotar setup?

#

I've read through this channel for the past day or so and checked the pins, haven't found anything yet

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 5:47 AM

#

Have anyone made a calculator to help with item/s when transporting with trains?

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 5:47 AM

#

No, but the math there depends on the distance being traveled.

#

Also on the stack size of the item.

#

You can talk in terms of the number of cargo wagons arriving per unit time.

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 5:50 AM

#

What I'm really trying to find out is a way to calculate if trains are better/worse then running a long line of belts

#

the math should be (items * stacksize * xInCart * carts / timeFromAtoB)

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

There is also the limiting factor of being able to load and unload cars with two belts per.

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

yes

#

that's 720*2 so 1440 item/s out/in?

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 5:55 AM

#

A freight car has 32 slots.

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 5:56 AM

#

station has 48 slots

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 5:56 AM

#

Also: It's 780 items/minute on a belt.

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 5:56 AM

#

even better

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 5:56 AM

#

So 1560 item/min

#

Or about two minutes to load/unload a car for an item with a stack size of 100.

#

So if you can complete a round trip in less time than that, you're beating the belts.

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

basicly, from a to b in under 2 mins including loading+offloading 😛

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

a to b and back.

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 6:00 AM

#

true

#

thanks for letting me use you to bounce math of 😉

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 6:00 AM

#

Or, more to the point, it's the rate at which you can get freight cars.

#

So conceivably you could run multiple trains on a loop.

#

But the game isn't very good at that, I think.

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 6:01 AM

#

no train loops are wonky at best, currently doing double-headed trains

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 6:02 AM

#

And of course, there's the factor that running a big long track is less of a pain than running two belts and power poles over the same distance.

#

Or more than two belts.

#

You can scale the train up by adding cars way more easily than adding more parallel belts over that distance would be.

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 6:07 AM

#

Do we know how long the unloading / loading animation locks the station?

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 6:09 AM

#

I don't.

spice holly Apr 3, 2020, 6:10 AM

#

25-30s iirc

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 6:10 AM

#

(Satisfactory's trains really do just make me miss Factorio's vastly more sophisticated train system.)

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 6:10 AM

#

so even with the fasts belts you would not beat the loading animation

spice holly Apr 3, 2020, 6:10 AM

#

The un/loading animation takes 25 seconds.
https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Train_Station

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 6:11 AM

#

didn't even think to look at the wiki, sorry

#

ohh god yes, love trains in factorio

spice holly Apr 3, 2020, 6:11 AM

#

2HD trains is wonky for multiple stations / complex network

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 6:12 AM

#

I want better wait conditions.

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 6:12 AM

#

conditions in general please

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 6:12 AM

#

I want a loader station to wait until the train is full, and I want an unloader to wait until the train is empty.

spice holly Apr 3, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

it might come eventually

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

yeah

spice holly Apr 3, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

i want proper train collisions too.

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

Yeah, part of the issue is that you would basically need a whole train signalling system.

#

A la Factorio. And that can be a lot.

spice holly Apr 3, 2020, 6:14 AM

#

it would be interesting to see how they're gonna implement it and how it will differ from factorio.

glacial hemlock Apr 3, 2020, 6:14 AM

#

No, the train signalling in Satisfactory can be simple

#

Satisfactory is 3D.

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 6:15 AM

#

go on

spice holly Apr 3, 2020, 6:15 AM

#

lmao, if anything, 3D is more complex than 2D

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 6:15 AM

#

3D means you can have tracks cross without actually intersecting, but it doesn't really simplify the implementation of junctions.

glacial hemlock Apr 3, 2020, 6:17 AM

#

Although impractical, we can have cloverleaves or even stacker interchange in SF. That means only y-junction will be involved

spice holly Apr 3, 2020, 6:18 AM

#

and how do that makes it simpler? a junction is still a junction.

#

and train collisions needs to be checked everywhere, not only junctions. you could've 2 trains on the same track going at different speeds. You could've tracks at different Z levels, and if the track above is not high enough, it should collide as well.

#

you could even have trains going in the same tracks but different directions, crashing into each other. Something that's not possible in factorio due to signals.

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 6:20 AM

#

assuming you set it up

spice holly Apr 3, 2020, 6:21 AM

#

enlighten me, how it's simpler.

glacial hemlock Apr 3, 2020, 6:22 AM

#

😂 train signalling delayed by 1 year

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 6:22 AM

#

if anything signals in this would be much more complex

glacial hemlock Apr 3, 2020, 6:22 AM

#

"how about keeping trains noclip''
''good idea''

nimble knoll Apr 3, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

i feel like collision check wouldn't be that hard to program

spice holly Apr 3, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

anything in 3D will always be more complex than 2D, generally, cause you have 1 more axis to worry about.

nimble knoll Apr 3, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

also angles are weird

spice holly Apr 3, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

best case scenario, it's equal, but it won't be simpler.

#

collision check wouldn't be hard, you're correct. What's hard is the system preventing that collision.

#

you can't just give player train collision w/o any system to make the players prevent that

#

imagine factorio w/ train collisions but w/o signals to manage it.

glacial hemlock Apr 3, 2020, 6:25 AM

#

Can. All train tracks to be 1-to-1 system. All junctions handled by transfer station

fallen cloak Apr 3, 2020, 6:25 AM

#

If we get collision on trains, tracks would have to have a boundry to assure your trains can pass landscape and player build things at any given time

#

If they keep the tracks as they are right now, you would have to have a train checking everytime you build a new line, then incase something is impassable you would then need to move said tracks without any way to angle the tracks manually

#

#hellOnWheels

astral hornet Apr 3, 2020, 8:10 AM

#

Whenever I play with trains in Factorio, I think to myself, oh man, if only we could build vertically and build like complex clover leaf intersections. Having proper signalling in SF for trains would be glorious

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 8:28 AM

#

There's always this:

📎 dpuf1cBR9RhkhAbSFw-ZA0tv1TWtTtEV5QBGVUiugrA.png

sand garnet Apr 3, 2020, 8:29 AM

#

they could probably add it so collision only detects player-built stuff, so terrain collision doesnt matter

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 8:30 AM

#

I would be content with detecting only collisions between trains.

spice holly Apr 3, 2020, 9:06 AM

#

^

wind spade Apr 3, 2020, 9:10 AM

#

Cloverleaf intersections aren't really efficient in terms of throughput

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 9:12 AM

#

Versus what? A roundabout?

wind spade Apr 3, 2020, 9:18 AM

#

Nope, that's even worse

#

Issue in cloverleaf and roundabout junctions is merge before split

sand garnet Apr 3, 2020, 9:20 AM

#

greeny knows trains. haha

fierce ruin Apr 3, 2020, 9:46 AM

#

If I use the diluted fuel with water and that I transform it in turbofuel how many electricty can I get with 300 oil/ min?

fossil thicket Apr 3, 2020, 9:50 AM

#

@fierce ruin like 22,000 Mw

fierce ruin Apr 3, 2020, 9:51 AM

#

@fossil thicket ok thankyou I think that's enough ^^

fierce ruin Apr 3, 2020, 10:10 AM

#

@reef turtle what is the purpose of this design? isnt it always more efficient to do something where each rail is multi-directional? ignore the missing top section here.

📎 Screenshot20200403-06051800000.png

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 10:11 AM

#

A rail supporting traffic in either direction greatly limits the number of trains which can run on that rail at the same time.

sand garnet Apr 3, 2020, 10:12 AM

#

that would only apply if trains have collision

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 10:12 AM

#

Well, yes.

sand garnet Apr 3, 2020, 10:12 AM

#

trains dont care about other trains on the track

#

they go straight through eachother

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 10:12 AM

#

But if trains can ghost through each other, then you only ever need the one rail.

sand garnet Apr 3, 2020, 10:13 AM

#

not necessarily when you have different directions

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 10:13 AM

#

That is to say, junctions and signaling are non-problems.

fierce ruin Apr 3, 2020, 10:13 AM

#

what do you mean by either direction? the crossings?

#

because this is a dual rail

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 10:14 AM

#

Perhaps I did not understand what you meant by, "each rail is multi-directional."

fierce ruin Apr 3, 2020, 10:14 AM

#

the turns

#

in your screenshot i see that the middle top rail is unable to go up or down

#

so like, youre limiting the directions a side can turn to for what reason

#

oh, it goes down and right but not up

#

shit nvm

#

i see now

#

thats a really wierd way to make a junction

#

was this created to eliminate slow down?

#

i see now with the signaling

#

so instead of crossing 2 other rails to go down, it does it before the merge

glacial hemlock Apr 3, 2020, 10:22 AM

#

Stack interchange has the highest throughput imo. But they won't allow any u_turn

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 10:23 AM

#

That intersection is designed for high throughput with no roundabout and a relatively compact use of space.

glacial hemlock Apr 3, 2020, 10:23 AM

#

And it shld be made large enough that any segment is longer than the longest train

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 10:23 AM

#

(Roundabouts can sometimes screw with the pathfinding in Factorio.)

glacial hemlock Apr 3, 2020, 10:25 AM

#

📎 hm6907O-0OwiYA2gMPoW7LtXHNIH8IqEcHhWxGLHkyo.jpg

fierce ruin Apr 3, 2020, 10:25 AM

#

would raising my rails in certain places increase throughput?

#

yeah like that image

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 10:26 AM

#

There's also always: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging_diamond_interchange

Diverging diamond interchange

A diverging diamond interchange (DDI), also called a double crossover diamond interchange (DCD), is a type of diamond interchange in which the two directions of traffic on the non-freeway road cross to the opposite side on both sides of the bridge at the freeway. It is unusual...

glacial hemlock Apr 3, 2020, 10:28 AM

#

Diamonds are in the first place, the cost effective nerfed version of cloverleaf. So i doubt it would have the throughput.

#

But it is safer than normal diamond

sand garnet Apr 3, 2020, 10:28 AM

#

but isnt all of this currently irrelevant with how trains work

fierce ruin Apr 3, 2020, 10:28 AM

#

yes tom

#

but when train collisions are on all of that will change

#

think factorio

sand garnet Apr 3, 2020, 10:30 AM

#

i dont play factorio but I've played a lot of openttd

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 10:33 AM

#

Yeah, Factorio draws a great deal from OpenTTD.

storm ingot Apr 3, 2020, 1:37 PM

#

Eew..... diverging diamonds? You need the patented Markus Reese square-a-bouts

#

DD Disgustings

#

Trying to link to my pic on steam, but on mobile it seems to do something wierd where it wants to download pic when I try to go to picture. So instead, the picture hub?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1799853967

Steam Community :: Screenshot

Steam Community: Cities: Skylines.

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 3:48 PM

#

what is the tractor/truck/train speed comparing to conveyors?

wind spade Apr 3, 2020, 3:50 PM

#

depends on how fast it goes 😄 but speed is pretty much irrelevant, since you care about throughput

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 3:51 PM

#

thats mine question. about throughput an average tractor/truck/train route

wind spade Apr 3, 2020, 3:51 PM

#

depends on distance between stations and number of trucks

#

can't be really generalized

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 3:52 PM

#

distance isn't important; average speed is probably 🙂

#

early it is hardly limited with stations conveyors; but i wonder if at conv mk. 3 or higher there is still a limit

wind spade Apr 3, 2020, 3:53 PM

#

distance IS important

#

it's different if your truck has to go 50m or 500m

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 3:53 PM

#

assuming relevant routes (0.5-5km)

wind spade Apr 3, 2020, 3:53 PM

#

and in the end you're still limited by belts

#

yeah, so 0.5km has way way way more throughput than 5km

#

about 10+ times the throughput

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 3:55 PM

#

and about this i plan making multiple stations on both ends. Like 4 loading and 4 unloading for each truck route. So need math to match trucks to stations ratio

wind spade Apr 3, 2020, 3:56 PM

#

tbh if you need high throughput like that, I'd just go for trains. Trucks are pain when they are multiple on a single route

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 3:56 PM

#

collisions?

wind spade Apr 3, 2020, 3:56 PM

#

and setup

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 3:57 PM

#

i make elevated highways 200 meters above ground so setup isn't too hard 🙂

#

just pres W button and wait

wind spade Apr 3, 2020, 3:58 PM

#

well the collisions are still there

#

also the need to provide fuel

#

and if you are doing highways, then you can just go for trains anyway

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

need unlock trains first. and using trucks mostly for coal; so don't need fuel

wind spade Apr 3, 2020, 3:59 PM

#

also "setup isn't too hard" > "I make elevated highways"

#

🙂

#

well, it's your call in the end

#

but there's no math to cover this, you need to figure it out by calculating your lap time, truck inventory size, item stack size, etc.

#

*no precalculated math

#

it's hard to generalize something as random as trucks

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 4:02 PM

#

For coal isn't probably. 24 stacks x100=2.400 coal with average 30-45km/h speed (500-750 meters per minute).

#

so it looks like about 1.000 items/min supply

#

for 1km road

glacial hemlock Apr 3, 2020, 4:05 PM

#

it takes about 7 hours to unlock train in my playthrough. Not sure if a proper truck setup will use less time.

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 4:05 PM

#

you can go trucks presteel

#

so it is aquirable quite fast

woeful skiff Apr 3, 2020, 4:09 PM

#

There's probably a more scientific way to do it, but I just keep an eye on the how long the container is sitting full / empty on each side to know if I can add more trucks to draw from a pick-up stop or if a drop-off stop is starved for resources.

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 4:47 PM

#

can someone help me?

📎 unknown.png

#

i saw math and im here

lime bronze Apr 3, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

What is that?

deft lichen Apr 3, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

uh lol this is for Satisfactory related math

tacit scroll Apr 3, 2020, 5:10 PM

#

@clear gulch Use Thales' Theorem.

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 5:12 PM

#

AB = 4, now any ideas?

tacit scroll Apr 3, 2020, 5:18 PM

#

Not sure what you're asking.

#

But, as Ondar said, this isn't really the forum for general geometry homework help.

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 6:24 PM

#

i need some project for 8 to 8 conveyor MK2 equalizer (can use MK3 at short range)

glacial hemlock Apr 3, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

Wait for mk6 belt, then your project ends

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 6:40 PM

#

nope; i'm just doing iron mill for 960 iron/min for midgame

#

i don't want wait infinity of time to get higher tier conveyors

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:30 PM

#

@sudden pumice 270 is mk3 belt 960/270 = 3.53333. 4 belts (120 + 120 = 240 in 1 belt X4)

#

its unreal dude)

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:31 PM

#

I'm trying to set up an efficient modular framework factory and am already confused

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:31 PM

#

@sacred blade whats wrong?

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:31 PM

#

I have no alt recipes so I need 3 reinforced iron plates per minute, but they get produced at 5/min/ So maximum efficiency would be 3 plate constructors and 5 assemblers, right?

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:32 PM

#

better do 10 per minute right away

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:32 PM

#

and that assumes that I have enough rod production to fill 5 assemblers

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 7:32 PM

#

@clear gulch nah; i found a solution. 32 smelters to 3x32 constructors (ingots->plates+ingots+screws) so 8 belts; each one connected to 4 the same type constructors

#

probably it will dry out sometimes but i'm too lazy for exact math

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:33 PM

#

okay. that helps

#

Just through it in one of the calculators and it got me a full number of each machine except for the assemblers at the very end

#

I just need 14 miners now

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:34 PM

#

@sudden pumice
we probably did not understand each other

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 7:34 PM

#

what your normal ratio between iron plates; rods and screws?

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:35 PM

#

@sacred blade yeeeee))

#

@sacred blade use a boosters))

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:35 PM

#

I think I have three green power slugs?

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

use shards only in miners

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

you can scavenge for them more 😛

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

so if I put one slug in a miner, how much does that overclock it?

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 7:37 PM

#

@sudden pumice
we probably did not understand each other
@clear gulch this is mine project. i wanted to equalize at few point conveyors from 32 smelters.

📎 unknown.png

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 7:37 PM

#

@sacred blade each shard 50%

#

max is 3

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:37 PM

#

@sudden pumice try to make a modular production, but in my base 90 plates ~600 scres (i don't remeber) 90 rods

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:37 PM

#

so I can cut my miners in half if I get 2 shards per miner

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:38 PM

#

@boreal cypress agree about shards in mines only

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:38 PM

#

how long do you think it would take to find that many shards?

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 7:38 PM

#

so I can cut my miners in half if I get 2 shards per miner
@sacred blade jeah

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 7:38 PM

#

@sudden pumice try to make a modular production, but in my base 90 plates ~600 scres (i don't remeber) 90 rods
@clear gulch now i'm planning to overkill production with 32 constructors for each thing. At least some unwanted will be idle 🙂

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:38 PM

#

@sacred blade 4 hours - i got a 150

#

@sudden pumice what a alternative! don't do it!

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

4 hours to find 11 slugs?

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

@sacred blade you can use this to find slugs
https://satisfactory-calculator.com/de/interactive-map

Satisfactory - Calculator

Satisfactory Helfer zur Berechnung des Produktionsbedarfs

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

it feels like spoiling the game experience though

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

you can unlock scanner for slugs in mam

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

@sudden pumice and then make everything from steel

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

this is my first play through

#

oh! then I'll do that

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

@clear gulch next build will be steel mill; also planned for about 1000 iron input

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

@sacred blade like said up top. SCANNER IS ALL FOR YOU)

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

got it. I will use that. thank you for your help

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

np)

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

@sacred blade also to find slugs elevated highways are nice thing

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:41 PM

#

@sudden pumice r u using coal generators for this?)

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 7:41 PM

#

@clear gulch currently 16. But can easily double coal gens asap

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

I'm for big productions. But they are useless at the initial stage, that is, before oil.

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

1 pure and 4 normal mines tapped; next untouched mines in about 1km from base

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

oh are you serious? my coal set up from last night makes just not enough power

#

its make 400 MW and I need 402 MW

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

sweet

#

im using 40GW of Power

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

@sacred blade omg) 2400 from 2 mk2 miners

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

Checkmate - make 600MW coal plants (8 gens each) 😛

#

that will be much nicer for power math

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 7:44 PM

#

I have an 8 generator setup with one mk1 miner and 3 water pumps

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:44 PM

#

1 gen = 15 coal per min. x8 = 120. really better dude

#

@boreal cypress nuclear energy is good?

#

@boreal cypress it was a shit on release

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

i dont have nuclear now, 50GW max is just fuel right now

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

yeeeeeee,

#

and i know where is ur generatos)))

#

a little desert yes?

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

but soon (when i finish my water supply) i have 144 Nuclear Power Plants

#

wdym? :D

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

wait a second

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

i wait 2 seconds just for you

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:47 PM

#

cool, but i'm lagging

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 7:49 PM

#

oh man; 3 oil places in less than 1km to mine base. how to use trains when everything is so freaking close 😄

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:50 PM

#

1,7... it was sad...

#

@boreal cypress this sweet desert

📎 unknown.png

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 7:51 PM

#

thats not a desert xD thats water

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:51 PM

#

waaaaait

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

real Map and so aren u3

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

@boreal cypress
was there oil before?

📎 unknown.png

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

📎 Anmerkung_2020-04-03_215220.jpg

#

there is oil since ... idk :D

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 7:54 PM

#

@oh god
I’ll go look for messages from last year

#

@boreal cypress it was my favorite place for generatord

📎 unknown.png

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 8:03 PM

#

nah dont want to transport oil so far xD

#

but i know what you thought ^^

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 8:03 PM

#

x11 nodes! but deleted after some patch

#

@boreal cypress forget, it deleted

sand garnet Apr 3, 2020, 8:04 PM

#

@clear gulch that map is outdated, dont use it

#

use this: https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map#3;5717;84616|gameLayer|

Satisfactory - Calculator

Satisfactory helper to calculate your production needs.

clear gulch Apr 3, 2020, 8:05 PM

#

@sand garnet indeed

#

I needed an old map to find an old super place on it

dark wyvern Apr 3, 2020, 8:30 PM

#

@sacred blade add one coal gen to maximize efficiency, you can have up to 3 fully overclocked coal gens for every 1 water extractor

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 8:31 PM

#

NO

#

3 250% coal gens are 7,5 coal gens
u need 3 Extractor for 8 Coal gens

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 9:17 PM

#

The two hours spent designing this better be worth it

#

📎 Modular_Frame_1.svg

#

now I need to go find enough power slugs and get enough resources to build this

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

whats a .svg?

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

similar to a pdf

#

I didn't download it as an image cause the text is small and unreadbale

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

pdf work; svg no 😛

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

pdf downloaded on 8 pages

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

than use png or so :D

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

which made it unreadable

#

📎 Modular_Frame.png

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

easy to read

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

the design got messy at the end when I had to merger everything together

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

just open original and zoom in

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

thx

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 9:20 PM

#

why do you use balancer and not just manifold?

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 9:21 PM

#

what?

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 9:21 PM

#

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/btexf7/satisfactory_saturdays_2_balancers_vs_manifolds/

r/SatisfactoryGame - Satisfactory Saturdays #2 - Balancers vs. Mani...

108 votes and 75 comments so far on Reddit

sacred blade Apr 3, 2020, 9:23 PM

#

I only have mk2 conveyors

#

and not enough iron plates - spent those on my coal generator setup

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 9:25 PM

#

@sacred blade why not feed all constructors by single conveyor bus?

#

📎 unknown.png

#

here conveyor mk2 main bus (960 inglots/min). feeding iron plates, inglots; and screws (direct recipe from hard drive) in each row.

#

32 constructors for each factory (plates; inglots; screws). Self balancing via overflow

upper thunder Apr 3, 2020, 9:39 PM

#

How much Coal do a Coal generator need?

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 9:40 PM

#

15 fully operating; and 45 water

#

so 8 gens for conveyor mk2. Best set is 4 gens per pipe (and 2 water extractor) to keep math power safe

upper thunder Apr 3, 2020, 9:42 PM

#

Ty

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 9:45 PM

#

You can do 6 generators on a pipe, with 3 water extractors.

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

but you will need use 24 gen block to make math good 😛

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 9:47 PM

#

Nah. You can just put fewer generators on the last pipe.

#

It's fine.

sudden pumice Apr 3, 2020, 9:47 PM

#

but not symmetric 😦

boreal cypress Apr 3, 2020, 9:47 PM

#

i had 36 coal gens before i had fuel

reef turtle Apr 3, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

Like, if you have 240/min coal, that's 16 coal gens, with three pipes, each supplying (6, 6, 4) generators.

#

And eight water extractors.

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 12:40 AM

#

usually people do 8 gens per 3 extractors tho

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 12:40 AM

#

greeny when will you update calculator? xD

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 12:41 AM

#

when my fucking client gives me a break with useless requests

#

jk, I'm working on it, it's hard and I don't have much free time anyway

woeful skiff Apr 4, 2020, 12:42 AM

#

clients are the worst

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 12:43 AM

#

this is the worst client of bad clients tho

#

IT illiterate who thinks they know way more than they do and tell me how to do my job

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 12:44 AM

#

did you tried to turn it off and on?

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 12:45 AM

#

I literally got a request to change some spacing between elements on the side, that said "take out a ruller and measure it on your computer, it should be X cm"

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 12:45 AM

#

uff ...

woeful skiff Apr 4, 2020, 12:45 AM

#

oh I've been there, I did software consulting for 20 years, I've known that type.

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 12:47 AM

#

best part is that even after two years of being my client, they still don't understand that not everybody has a screen of the size like they do

#

(even though half of their requests is to make some X feature mobile-friendly)

woeful skiff Apr 4, 2020, 12:49 AM

#

I've seen that same lack of comprehension while at the same time resenting my very existence because our software replaced their old job. But at least they pay you 🙂 (I hope, they better be).
Anyway better keep it on math-and-meta.

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 12:50 AM

#

continuing in #off-topic-general if anyone wants

reef turtle Apr 4, 2020, 1:11 AM

#

For my part, I'm working on updating my calculator.

#

I've got an updated data file, I've got updated images, I've got a rough idea about what I want the math to look like, and I've got a rough idea about what I want the UI to be.

#

Next I just want to make sure that "put the whole recipe graph in one linear program" will actually be fast enough.

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:15 AM

#

whats the base throughput of a single rail car? say single car, flat level track exactly 60 seconds round trip. how much material can it transfer

reef turtle Apr 4, 2020, 1:15 AM

#

A car has 32 slots.

#

So it also depends on the stack size of whatever item you're moving.

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:16 AM

#

so a caterium wire car would be 16,000/m ?

reef turtle Apr 4, 2020, 1:16 AM

#

But you'll likely be gated on the belts which load/unload the train station.

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:17 AM

#

yes but you also are very unlikely to have exactly 60 second round trip. just a base number to do the maths off of

reef turtle Apr 4, 2020, 1:17 AM

#

If you reckon tier 5 belts and a stack size of 100, it takes about two minutes to load or unload a car.

woeful skiff Apr 4, 2020, 1:17 AM

#

Once I set out to actually observe the container with a timer in hand to see if I could just roughly measure the number you're trying to calculate now, and I very quickly realized the belts were going to be the bottleneck.

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:18 AM

#

so a caterium car with an 8 minute round trip could maintain 2000/m worth of belts on the unloading end. with the assumption of infite input for simplicity

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:18 AM

#

freigth station have 2 inputs.. so 2x 780 would be 1560/min

reef turtle Apr 4, 2020, 1:18 AM

#

1560

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:18 AM

#

ignoring the capabilities of belts i mean

#

just the car itself.

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:18 AM

#

thx

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:18 AM

#

I usually look at trains from the other side

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:18 AM

#

its cap by the belts :D

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:19 AM

#

this table shows how often needs a train come to keep the throughput of the connected belts

📎 88aa8578-f79e-4a78-91e6-97c414f18fee.png

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:19 AM

#

ya but if i have those base numbers i can other calcs

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:19 AM

#

but without the cap depends on stack size ... stack size 100 than it would be 32x100 per minute

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:19 AM

#

keep in mind tho that when loading/unloading, the platform can't accept any input, so you can't really max 2 MK5 belts

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:19 AM

#

ahhh perfect. so for a double tapped caterium wire...10 min 15 sec. awesome! thanks

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:20 AM

#

there's around 20ish seconds of animation iirc

reef turtle Apr 4, 2020, 1:20 AM

#

25 seconds.

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:20 AM

#

in which the container is inaccessible (I think only for input)

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:20 AM

#

naw output too

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:20 AM

#

ah alright

#

well output doesn't really matter much, since it's already capped by input

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:21 AM

#

but can't the train hold essentially infinite resources? so the time it takes isn't really important, it just matters that the freight platforms don't completely fill up

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:21 AM

#

i was concerned i would have to add a second caterium car. but that saves my bacon. sweet

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:21 AM

#

@nimble knoll it can't hold infinite resources

#

it has 32 stack size per car

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:21 AM

#

well you can just add more carts though

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:21 AM

#

yeah, but the table is relevant for 1 car

#

and/or 1 platform

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:22 AM

#

so you divide those times by the number of cars you have

reef turtle Apr 4, 2020, 1:22 AM

#

The advantage of a train is that you can scale the length of the train without needing to do anything to the track (just the stations on either end).

#

So if the comparison is to a bunch of belts over the same distance, the train is way cheaper.

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:23 AM

#

@nimble knoll no. you check how many belts are coming out of a single platform and use that for calculations how often does the train need to arrive

#

if your lap time is longer, then you need to add more freight cars

#

or reduce your throughput per freight car

reef turtle Apr 4, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

(And in Factorio, the enormous advantage of trains is that you can run multiple trains, usually carrying different items from different places to different places, over the same tracks, which means that you build this one piece of infrastructure and it connects everything.)

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

@nimble knoll double not divide. if u add another car

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:26 AM

#

but i mean if you have one freight car, and the time is 5 mins for example, if you add another freight car and a platform on each end, can't the train take twice as long and still get the job done?

#

oh yeah i meant double

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:26 AM

#

yes

#

assuming the input can handle that much which is unlikely

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:26 AM

#

yeah, but the table assumes that those belts are per car

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:26 AM

#

or time * number of cars

#

well yeah

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:27 AM

#

@wind spade but if u add another car you are adding another unloader...which doubles thte belts. so the math still checks out

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:27 AM

#

@warm elk well not if you merge them 🙂

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:27 AM

#

ew

#

merging MKV XD

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:27 AM

#

e.g. if you have 2mk 5 belts coming out of two platforms

#

then yes, you can double the numbers in the table to get the numbers for your situation

reef turtle Apr 4, 2020, 1:28 AM

#

I think the point is that you can always add more cars in order to shove the bottleneck somewhere else.

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:28 AM

#

tru. so theoritically in a vacuum, it will double all the numbers.

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:29 AM

#

aren't these times the maximum that your train can take though?

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:30 AM

#

max a single CAR can take. single car + single freight station.

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:31 AM

#

and if you add more cars what happens to the time?

#

does it stay the same or multiply?

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:31 AM

#

double

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:31 AM

#

ah

#

assuming you have the same amount of input

#

and now it's just split

#

otherwise it stays the same?

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:32 AM

#

1 locomotive, with 1 car and 1 freight station on either end with 2 input belts. thats the assumption

#

1 loco, 2cars, 2 freight station and 4 belts....double the chart

#

IF you are NOT merging any of those 4 output belts

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:32 AM

#

yeah that's what i meant

#

i think

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:34 AM

#

@warm elk uhh, no

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:34 AM

#

so is this table essentially how long it takes to fill the freight station?

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:34 AM

#

if you double both cars and belts, it stays the same

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:35 AM

#

so caterium wire (stacks to 500) with 2x MK5 belts unloading/loading it...means your train can take 10 minutes and 15 seconds round trip before the unloading bin would be empty from the last dropoff

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:35 AM

#

@nimble knoll no, since freight station is a bit larger than freight car's size

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:35 AM

#

but if you double the cars but split the input into both cars you get double the max time?

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:35 AM

#

depends on input speed/belt

#

if u use MK5 belts...no

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:36 AM

#

essentially you are doing this:

take the number of belts that's coming in one platform (max 2)
use the numbers from that row of the table based on those belts

#

uhhh

#

confused myself, edited the original post

#

if you have 2 mk5s coming into the STATION and then split it 50/50 to two platforms, then each platform has only 1mk5 coming in and you use the numbers for 1mk5

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:39 AM

#

surely if you have two belts going into one freight station, and one car, you will have less time to get the train there and back than if you put one of those conveyors into a seperate car?

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:40 AM

#

yeah, but then again, the table is used for 1 platform, not 1 station

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:40 AM

#

it also assumes you are inputting with 2 belts as well as outputting

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:40 AM

#

nope, there are rows for 1 belt

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:40 AM

#

if you inputting with a single MK5 and draining with 2 MK5 its gonna half it

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:40 AM

#

well... only depends on input

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:40 AM

#

so this is like belts input per freight station

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:41 AM

#

its both

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:41 AM

#

wtf

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:41 AM

#

output doesn't matter (as long as it's the same or more)

#

it's the lower of the two numbers essentially

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:41 AM

#

same or less...

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:41 AM

#

okay i think i get it now

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:41 AM

#

or itll drain faster. and the train has to arrive sooner to keep it topped off

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:41 AM

#

it's not about keeping output full. It's about keeping input empty

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:43 AM

#

i think were saying the same thing haha. im calling the draining side -> the END of the line the output. the input side is where the production is..and inputting into the car

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:43 AM

#

based off the table, my coal delivery for my heavy frame factory has to be about 11mins or less since I have 1 mk3 belt, and it's about a 2min trip so i should be fine

#

but i don't even think it's fully saturated so yeah

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:44 AM

#

are you putting coal in one end with a single MK3 and taking it out the other end with a single MK3?

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

yes but i think it's only carrying 120/m so i should use the time for 1 mk2?

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

I mean there's no reason to use different amount of belts for input than for output

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

cause that would be 26mins

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

so let's assume those are the same

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

there isnt, but assuming can be dangerous +D

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

i just use mk3 for literally everything

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:46 AM

#

ya...so belt size is actually a bad variable for you. it should be production rate

#

MK5 is gonna give you bad data if you are outputting 100/m haha

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:46 AM

#

so if it said 60 items/m, 120 items/m, 120 items/m, 240 items/m, etc.

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:47 AM

#

270* but yes

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:47 AM

#

well actually no cause that's 2 mk2 belts

#

the next one would be 270 yeah

#

really weird how they made mk3 270 not 240

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:48 AM

#

and mk4 480

woeful skiff Apr 4, 2020, 1:49 AM

#

it's tailor made for the vanilla concrete recipe 🙂

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:49 AM

#

wait so 2 mk3 is faster than 1 mk4? lol what

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:49 AM

#

mk5/4/2 are devidable by 60 but not mk3

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:49 AM

#

they all are but 3 is special

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:49 AM

#

@nimble knoll yes by 60 :D

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:50 AM

#

well at least they made it more not less

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:50 AM

#

two mk4 are much faster than 1mk5

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:50 AM

#

yeah that's odd

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:50 AM

#

by 180

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:50 AM

#

i wonder why mk5 isnt 960

#

maybe mk6 will be, or it could be completely different again

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:51 AM

#

it really just comes down to your time. time the trip, see what your train takes. and use that as your base for what you NEED in # of cars

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:51 AM

#

i wonder what mk6 will be when 2mk3 are faster than mk4, 2mk4 faster thank mk5... 2mk5 are 1560 so mk6 must be below 1560

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:52 AM

#

or maybe it would be 1920 because 2x960?

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:53 AM

#

based on the scaling

#

itd be 160 more. so 1720

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:54 AM

#

why couldn't they have just kept it as each one 2x the last lol

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:56 AM

#

2 mk3 is 520 = 40 more than mk4. 2 mk4 is 960. = 160 more thank mk5. 2 mk5 is 1560....soo if they keep going with x4 itd be 920 ?

#

i went the rwong way with my maths

#

i doubt that tho. 920 after 780 would be shite

#

also 540 not 520. brain why are you failing me

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:57 AM

#

my math is so broken today xD

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:57 AM

#

well 4x160 is 640 so maybe 780+640 = 1420? for mk6

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 1:57 AM

#

which means 60 more than mk4.... and its 180 not 160 for 2 mk4 vs mk5. god damn brain.

#

so its TRIPLE not quadruple scaling. s0 540. off 1560. 1020 belt.

#

still seems low tho. for mk6

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:58 AM

#

belts are confusing right? xD

#

its 4 in the morning xD

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 1:59 AM

#

well if we stick to the scaling 960+640=1600 for mk6

#

wait no

#

who knows

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:00 AM

#

scratch that. missed your previosu comment

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:04 AM

#

when 2 previous mk are faster than the next mk it must be <2x780

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:04 AM

#

x1, x2, x3.5, x8, x13. no real pattern there either. multiply by 60 for each belt tier

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:04 AM

#

2mk3 are 540 right?

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:05 AM

#

ya

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:05 AM

#

and 1mk4 is 480 so 60 difference

#

2mk4 are how much?

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:05 AM

#

ya i did that math up top

#

but that doesnt check out either. cause 2 MK2 is 240. MK3 is 270.

#

they have no rhyme or reason to their madness!

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:06 AM

#

2mk4 are 180 faster than 1mk5
so 180/60 is 3
2mk5 are 1560
180x3 are 540
1560-540 is 1020

#

maybe thats the solution?

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 2:07 AM

#

i bet the devs were just like "hmmm yeah that seems like a reasonable speed, lets go with that"

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:07 AM

#

so its TRIPLE not quadruple scaling. s0 540. off 1560. 1020 belt.
@warm elk oh ... you did it already xD thanks brain

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:07 AM

#

there's no formula for belts guys 😄

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:07 AM

#

i alrdy said that @boreal cypress XD ahhaha. but 1020 seems so low

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:07 AM

#

jeah if we go up to mk7 it will be far to low xD

#

its even less

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:08 AM

#

pfftt. this @wind spade guy here bein a buzzkill

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:08 AM

#

so mk7 is 420 i guess? xD

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:08 AM

#

knowing coffee stain...its probly everyone puts a reasonablish number in a hat and they draw it for the next belt speed

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 2:08 AM

#

yeah exactly

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

so maybe there is an infinite number in it :D

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

oh that would be interesting

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

I mean the speeds are fine as they are right now

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

the items just teleport

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

they didn't want some easy double per mk numbers

#

they said that somewhere

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

no complaints about speed....was just goofin off trying to find a pattern instead of building caterium factories

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:10 AM

#

yeah there's no pattern 🙂

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 2:10 AM

#

oh what if there was a teleporter belt but it had a low max items

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:10 AM

#

all we now know is, that the speed is devidable by 30

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:11 AM

#

i wish theyd add an interface to train stations that show the average round trip for a train

#

every run it makes would dial in that average

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:11 AM

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jeah would be nice

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:12 AM

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thatd be stupid simple to code too 😄

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:15 AM

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how do you lane balance overclocked coke for mk5 belts?

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its very difficult

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screenshots?

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nvm i think i have an easier way, overclock only to 108% and it should go into the belts easily

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at the cost of space

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:17 AM

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underclock*

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:18 AM

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over....petroleum coke is 120/m

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:18 AM

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underclock and build more machines

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never overclock, you're losing power

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:18 AM

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unless power isnt an issue at all

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:19 AM

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50% / 60 per min then?

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:19 AM

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well you could use the resources for something other than power 🙂

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:19 AM

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once u get to nuclear power is meh. XD

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:19 AM

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why do you need to lane balance anyway? use manifolds and don't balance at all 😛

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:20 AM

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because the belts are going to back up

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which means im losing throughput

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:20 AM

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that's not how manifolds work

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you don't lose throughput with manifolds

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:21 AM

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eventually youre going to run out of belt to put things on, no?

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what exactly is a manifold

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 2:21 AM

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bruh

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big IQ

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:21 AM

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--S--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X  X

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this is a manifold

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 2:22 AM

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make sure the input is more than or equal to the amount you need

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if it is less it won't work properly

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:22 AM

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well you don't need that

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:22 AM

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X being supply?

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:22 AM

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X being a machine

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 2:22 AM

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s being splitter

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the items come from the left

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:22 AM

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if its what it looks like to me..ive heard it refer to as bus line setup

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:23 AM

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https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/btexf7/satisfactory_saturdays_2_balancers_vs_manifolds/ @fierce ruin

r/SatisfactoryGame - Satisfactory Saturdays #2 - Balancers vs. Mani...

108 votes and 75 comments so far on Reddit

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:23 AM

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i put mergers on S

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have i fucked up

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:23 AM

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S is Splitter

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:23 AM

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well for merging it works the same way

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:23 AM

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welll...depends if X is input or output 😄

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 2:23 AM

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well you would put mergers on the output

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:23 AM

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@warm elk bus setup is something different

nimble knoll Apr 4, 2020, 2:23 AM

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x is neither

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:24 AM

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@boreal cypress i dont get it, this is literally what im doing

warm elk Apr 4, 2020, 2:24 AM

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ive always been bad at terminology : /

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i use manifold in almost everything. and bus lines (if they are what i think they are) for my input lines

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stacked like 6 high or so belts. fastest belt i have. the split off left and right into production lines

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:26 AM

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underclock and build more machines, i think im going with what greeny said

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:27 AM

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what's your issue anyway?

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if you have a belt that you want to split to X machines, use manifold

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if you have X machines outputting to a single belt, use manifold to merge

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if your machines output more than 1 belt, use more manifolds 😄

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:28 AM

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i have an awkward output of 300 per minute which wouldnt fit evenly on 780 per min belts, it would be a balancing nightmare

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:28 AM

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do 2x300 + 1x180

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180 being underclocked

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don't need any balancing

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 2:29 AM

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or just more belts 🙂

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:29 AM

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or don't use full 780 belt and just put 600 on the belt

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or underclock 300 to 260 everywhere and have 3 machines per belt

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possibilities are endless

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:30 AM

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the goal is to squeeze as much shit in the smallest space possible while maximizing throughput, i must use the full 780

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 2:30 AM

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then do the 3x260

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 2:31 AM

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welp; you can squeeze 4+2+4 belts on 1 foundation

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with only 4m heigh

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walled in conveyors take pretty much no space

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 3:24 AM

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where should i be putting my pumps?

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i occassionally get below 75 flowrate on the last 2 overclocked refineries

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not sure if thats normal

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 3:26 AM

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are all other machines full?

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 3:26 AM

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now its 75 to 76, maybe its just balancing out?

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yes

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right now i have a pump right before each refinery just to make sure

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 3:29 AM

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you dont need a pump :D only for headlift

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 3:36 AM

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why are they losing flow rate well after the lift then

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 3:36 AM

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because pipes keep some fluid for themself to fill up

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 3:40 AM

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maybe its just my other refineries trying to reach 50

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 3:41 AM

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could be ^^

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 3:44 AM

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that may have been it

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im stupid

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now theyre completely stable

glacial hemlock Apr 4, 2020, 8:05 AM

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I am a bit late to the party, but it is wise to use vehicle transport for compressed item, then only de-compress it locally. Such as caterium ingot vs quickwire, or iron ingot vs screws

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 8:15 AM

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screw is better for transport than iron ingot with 1.25 compression (bigger stack)

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5 times biger stack with 4 times decompression

forest schooner Apr 4, 2020, 8:17 AM

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It makes me happy to see that i've managed to build a fully efficient heavy frame factory, zero downtime. Left my pc on for 4 hours and it's supposed to make 2 heavy frames per minute and when i came back at the 4 hour mark it had made 480 heavy frames.

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I had even made it so every machine before that was only making the bare minimum of materials needed to get the heavy frames made

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 8:18 AM

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@forest schooner how much ore as input?

forest schooner Apr 4, 2020, 8:18 AM

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i have two miners, between the two it's 515ish iron ore

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and for the coal it's 205/sec if i recal

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for the first try as a noob with only 140hrs in the game, i'm very pleased at my first attempt at something like this, the rest of my save is garbo and not efficient at all

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 8:22 AM

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meh; it looks i need much more ore i thought for mine project...

forest schooner Apr 4, 2020, 8:22 AM

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What are you working on?

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 8:22 AM

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i wanted make heavy modular frames at rate 6-10 per minutes

forest schooner Apr 4, 2020, 8:23 AM

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if i had to make a rough guess thats going to cost you arond 4000mw/hr

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at the high end

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 8:23 AM

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just done part for modular frames (with 20 unless some lower tier stops) per minute and 1k ore input

forest schooner Apr 4, 2020, 8:24 AM

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Just for frames? hmm

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 8:24 AM

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just for frames; and some rotor/plates leftower

forest schooner Apr 4, 2020, 8:25 AM

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i was wondering why that felt high

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 8:28 AM

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i didn't do exact math; i just make tier 1 iron things for 1k inputs. (32 iron plates; 32 screws; 32 rods -> 16 reinf plates and 8 rotors->12 modular frames.

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big number of plates/screws/rods for autobalancing

glacial hemlock Apr 4, 2020, 9:34 AM

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https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Heavy_Modular_Frame#Tips

Satisfactory Wiki

Heavy Modular Frame

Heavy Modular Frame is a mid-game crafting component commonly used for mid to late-game structures.

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you need about 500 iron ores for 2 HMF, and that figure is correct. But you might want to look at the alternates.

sand garnet Apr 4, 2020, 9:35 AM

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"the alt recipe" refers to which one? isn't there more than 1 alt for that item?

glacial hemlock Apr 4, 2020, 9:36 AM

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you need a whole chain of alternates to really enjoy the HMF production.

stark pier Apr 4, 2020, 12:31 PM

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I need some help actually

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Just finally built the Space Elevator but my factory composition is too fucked up.
Perhaps someone can give an advice of how to make an optimal and good factory?

Or should I just like reset everything and start from 0?

(Pretty sure this ain't the channel to ask these things)

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 12:34 PM

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Starting from zero is pretty much bad idea. You can always abadon your factory and make another next to it

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Do you will be free from early waiting game

stark pier Apr 4, 2020, 12:36 PM

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That sounds like a good idea hmm. I could just scrap out all machinery and then rebuild them.
The position I left my factory at was pretty fucky tho. Barely any ground and I'm having to settle things down.

But also close to plenty of iron resources.

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 12:37 PM

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Not scrap until your next better modular factory will be operating. Good point for rebuild starting base is after reinforced concrete

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Because coal miners mk2

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And youll stop being limited by power do hard

stark pier Apr 4, 2020, 12:39 PM

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True. Right now biogens are what are fucking me up the most. Cuz I can't even run two things good without things going down.

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Any reccomends regarding assembly machines? My factory started going downhill after I built them

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 12:40 PM

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Chainsaw is your friend. You should be easily get about 800 mw od power from biomass

woeful skiff Apr 4, 2020, 12:41 PM

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You can build more biofuel generators to keep things producing while you work towards coal.

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 12:42 PM

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So keep wood plant with 20-30 burners. And leaves +wood biofuel factories (two lines)

sand garnet Apr 4, 2020, 12:42 PM

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800mw from biomass? you'd spend more time feeding your generators than playing the game lol

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6 burners along with the 2 from the hub should be able to last you into coal

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 12:42 PM

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Tom - i always start with 20 burners and go chopping. Mostly use IT at about 20-30%

stark pier Apr 4, 2020, 12:43 PM

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I have enough biomass to build as much fuel as I want actually. Just the place where my hub and my generators are at fucks me up.

sand garnet Apr 4, 2020, 12:43 PM

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it's super overkill lol

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 12:43 PM

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And use as auxillary when coal fail

woeful skiff Apr 4, 2020, 12:43 PM

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I don't generally build more than about 8 biofuel generators actually. I don't use the ones from the hub because I'm ocd about the fact that they burn at a different rate than the standalone ones 😑

sand garnet Apr 4, 2020, 12:43 PM

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yeah its silly they're worse than regular biomass gens

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 12:43 PM

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More burners = more time between refuel

glacial hemlock Apr 4, 2020, 12:43 PM

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10 to 15 biomass burners is pretty good.

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 12:44 PM

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So 20 is just for convince not overkill

sand garnet Apr 4, 2020, 12:44 PM

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the problem is that max capacity increasing also makes people less likely to go for coal

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because why change if your capacity isnt being reached?

woeful skiff Apr 4, 2020, 12:44 PM

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well, I agree with the benefit of reloading less often, but I wouldn't actually consume that much power from my biofuel. Or I don't anyway, by that point I'm into coal.

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 12:44 PM

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I like rushing coal because trucks

woeful skiff Apr 4, 2020, 12:45 PM

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If you do consume all the power of 15-20 gens, then you lose the reloading less often benefit anyway.

sudden pumice Apr 4, 2020, 12:45 PM

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Bryan - i mostly use 6-7 burners. Have triple supply to rarier refuel only

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20 burners at 30%>7 at 95%

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Burners are too cheap to not to overkill

dusty isle Apr 4, 2020, 1:22 PM

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https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/553550313533997057/695985894498238464

I made thing... A crazy thing... But it splits 4 x 600 belts with screws and 1 x 720 belt with rods into rotors

wise obsidian Apr 4, 2020, 1:38 PM

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I still think that biomass burners should have a belt input for automation.

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one of the only things you can't automate and it makes the trek towards coal power that much more tedious.

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 1:39 PM

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would be nice for beginner

wind spade Apr 4, 2020, 1:40 PM

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That's exactly why they don't have input

empty hemlock Apr 4, 2020, 1:44 PM

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as you progress towards coal, you have a pretty good sync between increasingly better biofuel types and factory energy demands until the only concern with bio is that you have to fill them up every half hour or so and then you have to learn piping to progress into higher tier power

wise obsidian Apr 4, 2020, 1:44 PM

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you still need to harvest biomass

empty hemlock Apr 4, 2020, 1:45 PM

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which you have to do anyway to make room for your factory

wise obsidian Apr 4, 2020, 1:45 PM

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you harvest very little at the start simply for your factory :p

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I tend to go on deliberate journies for biomass

empty hemlock Apr 4, 2020, 1:46 PM

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yes as i said, you progress from having to scrounge up for very little and then progress towards biomass which massively increases energy value to just having tons of biofuel as you just clear vast swathes with the chainsaw and then you get to coal

wise obsidian Apr 4, 2020, 1:46 PM

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But that's really neither here nor there; it's a game of automation, so having a machine that requires manual input every x minutes is pretty much an outlier

empty hemlock Apr 4, 2020, 1:47 PM

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you also have to handcraft iron plates to progress through Tier 0

wise obsidian Apr 4, 2020, 1:47 PM

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there's a machine to craft iron

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automatically

empty hemlock Apr 4, 2020, 1:49 PM

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there is also a machine to automatically make power

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:40 PM

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for crafting turbofuel, will i yield more of it by diluting the heavy fuel first? or by putting the heavy fuel directly into turbofuel?

paper mauve Apr 4, 2020, 2:43 PM

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you'll get the most turbofuel if you use the heavy oil alt to turn crude oil directly into heavy oil residue and then turn the heavy oil residue into diluted fuel, unpackage fuel, convert to turbofuel

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:45 PM

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turn crude oil directly into heavy oil
what recipie is that?

paper mauve Apr 4, 2020, 2:45 PM

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each 1m^3 of crude oil will net you 1.777 m^3 turbofuel

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it's called Alternative Heavy Oil Residue

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it takes 3 crude oil and gives you 4 HOR

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:48 PM

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let me get this straight, dilute the alt heavy oil, then use the fuel to make non-alt turbofuel?

paper mauve Apr 4, 2020, 2:48 PM

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yep

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well hang on

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take the heavy oil and turn it into diluted packaged fuel, then unpackage the fuel, then use the regular turbofuel recipe

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:49 PM

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but you dont get plastic or rubber

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or do you?

paper mauve Apr 4, 2020, 2:49 PM

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he asked how to get the most turbofuel

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the HOR alt has polymer resin as a byproduct

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:49 PM

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ahh

paper mauve Apr 4, 2020, 2:49 PM

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so you could get a bit of rubber/plastic I guess or just sink it

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:50 PM

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i wonder what i will do, when i dont need the HOR anymore

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:50 PM

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but that means i have to craft empty canisters

paper mauve Apr 4, 2020, 2:51 PM

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yes but once there's enough canisters they'll all be recycled in the loop and you don't have to keep crafting them

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because the diluted fuel recipe needs packaged water

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so it'll use the empty water canister and put the diluted fuel into it, then you unpackage that fuel and send the empty canisters to get filled back up with water and the cycle repeats

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:53 PM

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bruh thats alot of work

paper mauve Apr 4, 2020, 2:53 PM

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all I know is with this method you can take a 300m^3 pipe of crude oil and turn it into 666.667 turbofuel powering 148 fuel gens for 22,222.222MW

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yeah it's a bit of work but it's worth it imo

fierce ruin Apr 4, 2020, 2:54 PM

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holy shit

paper mauve Apr 4, 2020, 2:54 PM

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you asked how to get the most turbofuel lol

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:54 PM

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thats what is "imKibitz" doing :D

paper mauve Apr 4, 2020, 2:54 PM

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that's why I got bored in my save and stopped working on nuclear lol. I simply don't need the power 😛

boreal cypress Apr 4, 2020, 2:55 PM

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well xD you would had fun with pipes cogh

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finished almost the half of my Setup

paper mauve Apr 4, 2020, 2:55 PM

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lol nice

left flame Apr 4, 2020, 3:18 PM

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what's the best chain for heavy mod?