with 480 lines of sulfur and coal (MK4) :
#math-and-meta
paper mauve
that's exactly what I did with 300 oil
paper mauve
I don't need the power
but I'm working on my nuke factory anyways because I've got nothing else to do
going for 16 fuel rods/m
vast copper
I aim for 10
vast copper
hum 10 runs 50 reactors I think
with 16 you should get way more, or my tools/maths are wrong ?
plush dove
thats 80 ๐
vast copper
^^
paper mauve
jesus what did I get myself into lol
vast copper
that's what I tell myself every 2 hours
paper mauve
I'm almost done with the fuel rod factory so I can't stop now
vast copper
10 is plenty :p
paper mauve
been working on it the past week
got nothing else to do in this quarantine so trying to keep myself busy
lament scarab
so basically u scaled for double the amount of power, however i dont know how u managed to do that with just 300 crude oil... @ bibee
scarlet marsh
oil provides a lot of power
spice holly
diluted fuel alternative
lament scarab
well i found out that the wiki overview doesnt feature all the alternates
and for the above suggestion i lack
the 3 crude oil to 4 heavy oil
the diluted fuel
and the turbo heavy fuel
recipe (as i only got the normal turbofuel one) - i guess then it would best to just set up a small plant until i get those recipes?
scarlet marsh
i mean even if you get those recipes
the process is many steps and long time to build
paper mauve
took me a week of at least 4-6 hours a day
spice holly
iirc the turbo heavy fuel is worse than the original one.
spice holly
cos you want to convert the heavy fuel to fuel first using the diluted recipe
paper mauve
yep
lament scarab
well, its the only thing i can do atm, as my power grid crashes when i try to use trains
oblique hollow
build more gens lol
a single train needs (together with stations) needs around 210 MW
thats only for : 1 locomotive and 2 train stations
lament scarab
so u would recommend to wait until i have more of the alt recipes?
(i built the train system with 2 stations and 2 locomatives)
oblique hollow
how many freight platforms per train station
lament scarab
3
lament scarab
wow... thats expensive
oblique hollow
thats like.... 4 fuel generators
and a little extra
so 60 mยณ/min of fuel (and a little extra, maybe a coal generator)
spice holly
perhaps you expanded too fast and need to work on your infrastructure first.
lament scarab
perhaps you expanded too fast and need to work on your infrastructure first.
probably a good idea, i just thought about overclocking the refineries to 200% and slap 8 more fuels next to it xD
lament scarab
8 coal and 8 fuel, though i only have 1 250% water extractor so only 6 working coal gens
oblique hollow
why the heck dont you use another extractor
instead you just overclocked the first one?
paper mauve
power requirements grow exponentially for overclocking so that might be part of your power issues
lament scarab
well, the short answer is that the pond next to the coal node barely even fits one water extractor :x
oblique hollow
then find another pond, where are you even at?
lament scarab
normally i just overclock nodes though @ fractalsauce
spice holly
8 coal and 8 fuel is indeed low
lament scarab
hey, im just a few hours in
oblique hollow
actually in my opinion, screw coal once you get fuel. its twice the effort to set coal up for half the price
spice holly
don't get me wrong, i'm not judging you, just giving you my opinion.
lament scarab
its fine xD i mean im basically breaking the fuse 24/7
spice holly
i would triple that coal gen number into 24 before touching train.
oblique hollow
thats a very bad sign lmao
spice holly
and generally what you want to do if you don't have enough water near the coal is to bring the coal to where the water is.
paper mauve
^
spice holly
8 coal gen means you're only getting 120 coal/min from that node. what purity is that coal node?
lament scarab
well, u have to imagine that at the moment when i build the coal plant i didnt use any map tools
oblique hollow
why do you only have 8 fuel gens, a single oil node is seldomly alone
lament scarab
as u can imagine, when i set the oil plant up i was low on power, so i couldnt rly afford any automation of the parts xD
oblique hollow
bruh just kickstart the refineries with a biomass burner
lament scarab
the problem was not the kickstarting
it was getting the components to build the refineries
vast copper
so basically u scaled for double the amount of power, however i dont know how u managed to do that with just 300 crude oil... @ bibee
@lament scarab hey sorry, was in game, all good now with the alts ?
this is the killer Alt for ultra cheap oil based products
with this alt you can do everything on a massive scale with only a couple of oil nodes
I get all the turbofuel + nuke + 60/m turbomotor to sink with 4 oil pipes :
that's my current roadmap btw ^^
lament scarab
everything clear now, thx a lot
just 1 more question, that planing tool looks awesome, which one is it?
dull shard
Hey
Can someone tell me how much nuclear fuel rod are eaten /min ?
paper mauve
0.2/m at 100%
dull shard
You're so fast โค๏ธ
paper mauve
lol
vast copper
guys, will this work properly with 300 in each of the output pipes ?
the fluid mecanic is quite advanced so I'd like to be sure before repeating this 32 times lol
spice holly
yes
paper mauve
he'd have to zoom in and take multiple screenshots and stitch them together
fierce ruin
i cant readit bibeeeeee
dim thicket
Hmm. I wonder how specifically pipe mechanics do.
bleak cobalt
from what ive tested with pipe mechanics every pump reaches 20m higher
and if you have a section in between two higher points it doesnt matter as long as a pump earlier on the pipe covers that height
vast copper
I was asking for the flow not the height ๐
so 5 extractors = 5x120 = 600 water/min split in 2 pipes of 300 each, I was just wondering if the 3rd extractor in the middle will indeed split its 120 water 50/50
bleak cobalt
it theretically should
vast copper
is there a way to check this in game ? ๐ฎ
bleak cobalt
but if one side has a greater demand then it will divert more water to that side then the other depending on pressure requrements
yes
set up a end point that has each end travel a equal distance over flat terrain
then if each end pipe fills equaly then yes its splits 50/50
vast copper
maybe I can put 2 liquid containers and compare their flow when filling up
bleak cobalt
that is also a good idea
vast copper
let me grab the material and check I'll let you guys know
bleak cobalt
i dont mean to sound mean, rude or harsh in any way
did you make sure that each pipe was the same distance to the containers?
vast copper
I let the inequal part (before the bridge) fill up, then reconnected the long pipes from where everything is equal
it seems to be capping at 292
on each container
292 in each pip
I'll re test with 2 pumps and empty pipe network
the containers fill up at a 294 rate with the pumps
the drop in flow rate occurs in the last long pipe segment
here
ok 3rd test : I emptied only the fluid buffer, and now they both fill up with 301/m
so this setup seems to be working as intended : 5 extractor to 2 pipe = 2x300/min
success ! and now to the manual copy pasting ! ๐
spice holly
this is 10m, is it not? ๐ค
vast copper
12 or 13 I think
your vertical foundations are already 10m (4+4+2), + the support which prob 2m
spice holly
but it also start with a support on the btm as well, no?
vast copper
I agree, but the system is tricky, I tried counting walls and stuff it's always more than I counted
spice holly
and those pumps at the back, it's showing 8.9m - 9m headlift, which is just weird.
vast copper
well you're good to go then no ? ๐
spice holly
cos the rest of the systems is on the same level with the floor in the first pic.
no, the point is i shouldn't have to use pumps since it's 10m from the extractor.
i kinda design it to be exactly 2 1/2 walls up.
vast copper
so what seems to be the problem ?
spice holly
i just told you what the problem is, it's ok if you don't understand the problem.
vast copper
so the problem is you count 10 and it shows 8.9, right ?
spice holly
yes, but you can see from the pic, that the output of the pump and the top is nowhere near 8.9m
bleak cobalt
its might be a code thing to where it starts from the center of the pump instead of the ends
spice holly
could be, but i still doesn't understand why i need pumps in the first place.
w/o the pumps, all the pipes at the top would be like 3/4 full
vast copper
yeah it happens to me as well
That's a lot of water lol, good job most oil is next to water
@sharp wind Wanna see what 160 extractor look like ? XD I'm just done building them, now I'm gonna pipe them all :p
sharp wind
@vast copper oh go on then, make me regret wanting to take everything
vast copper
I shared a screenshot last night in the screenshot channel I'll share another later today ๐
glacial hemlock
Love the diluted fuel recipe.
sharp wind
So much power and water though lol especially if you go with the pure ingost too
ingots*
clear gulch
Why tnt is so good
torpid hatch
Anyone know if fuel generators are bugged? They seem to be using almost no fuel at all
sand garnet
it scales according to demand
vast copper
That's where I stopped last night, 19200 water to bring home, it's A LOT of work ^^
glacial hemlock
There is a large water body on top of a rock, very good head
vast copper
Yeah I thought about it, but I like the view of the cascade ^^
and it's too small ^^
I'm using 10x the area here just with the extractors
clear gulch
@vast copper 1 pipe is 300 m/s (2.5 pumps) is it 5 in 1 pipe or im blind?
upper roost
Hey guys, I got an alternative recipe for steel and made a %100 efficient 12 foundries. But now I am struggling to get into next step. I got an alternative recipe for Steel > Rod, how can i handle the distribution for Pipe - Beam and Rod? ๐
lament scarab
idk if it helps, but for small setups i usually use 2 foundries (2*45=90 steel), u can then combine them and split them into 1 constructor for beams and one for pipes (30 and 60 steel/min or the other way round, cant remember rn)
else u can go for 4 foundries to produce 180 steel, which u can then either use in 3 or 6 pipe factories i guess
upper roost
I am making 720 steel p/m
But I don't know what would be the next step.
My brain is stopped after making those ๐
lament scarab
well
the production chain is as follows:
steel -> steel beam -> encased industrial beam
steel -> pipe
the ratio in which u want pipes lastly depends on ur liking
i personally like having a bit of an overflow of steam beams before i craft them into industrial beams
im taking the numbers out of my head
an assembler uses 24 steel beams/min for encased industrial beams
as a constructor creates 15 steel beams/min from 60 steel
for 1 assembler of encased industrial beams u would need 2 constructors, and for those constructors u would need 120 steel/min
however u cant reach 120 with 45*x so u would probably need to go for 360 steel into 6 constructors for 90 steel beam per minute
with those u could then feed 3 assemblers with 72 of those steel beams
you then have 360 steel left for just pipes and steal beam, u can split those up to ur liking i guess, those are subsetups that u can combine to always use 100% of foundries
2*45 -> 90steel -> 60steel + 30steel -> 15beam + 20pipe
4*45 -> 180steel -> 3*60steel -> 3*45beam
2*45 -> 90steel -> 3*30steel -> 3*20pipe
hopefully i didnt do any typing mistakes with the numbers
vast copper
@vast copper 1 pipe is 300 m/s (2.5 pumps) is it 5 in 1 pipe or im blind?
@clear gulch 5 in 2 pipes, let me zoom in for you
We were discussing this here last night and the system works as intended
2.5 extractor per pipe for a full 300
scarlet marsh
@vast copper do you use any mod for that like area action?
or just hand place everything?
vast copper
AAM doesn't work with belts, pipes, extractors, power cables, pipe support etc...
so it's titan handwork man ^^
laying down the foundation was nothing
I'm here now;
A lot of temp building to measure things evenly etc, but the piping takes AGES ^^
My main mega base is heavily inspired by Kibitz, I had no idea how to start. and the building in the background is a compacted coal factory, I'll show more later if you want :)
But the 19200 water infrastructure is omg ...
I placed the 160 extractors by hand manually all yesterday PM, and this is probably what I'm the most proud of so far ... They are pixel perfect in terms of alignment and no mod/trix used, just super low sensitivity mouse and probably 6 hours ^^
rn I'm at the whole in the grey wall, figuring out pumping up all the water :p
For me this is waht the game is about, in my last playthrough I finished T7 too fast, so now I want to take my time and build on a much much larger scale, but always purposefully, towards a defined goal, so for ex, I'll only have 2 iron miners for everything I'm going to produce
I'd love to share so roadmap in a more readable way, but there's now way so far to extract a project from Daniel's calculator
scarlet marsh
wow
yeah my factory is at the pt in the game where you go massive
and i just stopped playing
im too lazy to actually hand place that many - im hoping area action improves
but damn good work dude
so what is the water for?
scarlet marsh
pure ingots/fuel/al refinement i guess?
vast copper
yeah
and this is not including the water needed for running nukes ^^
I'll source the water locally where I'll build the reactors far far away
vast copper
but damn good work dude
@scarlet marsh Thanks man ๐
Just to give you an idea:
280 refineries just for copper ingots, and this is the most efficient way to make copper
scarlet marsh
wow
your really going big
probably take at least a month or 2 to get that tree completed
vast copper
yeah, but with the pandemic, it's easy
the game is amazing, Update III is a blast, and I really love what how they revamped the desert biome, it's full of little secret places and the area near the cascade is gorgeous ^^
the game is really awesome for me
scarlet marsh
yeah i can do the small projects
vast copper
building on this scale with the challenges I want for myself (realistic look, no clipping, no floating) everything becomes a challenge : for the water tower, I need 64 pumps every 20 meters, the wiring with MK2 stuff means 16 power poles per pump floor, and I have to squeeze all of this on 1 tile :p
scarlet marsh
just fine but when it gets to laying down 100 refineries or something
the monotony makes it not fun anymore for me
vast copper
AAM can help break this, you can get your 100 refineries in a clic, but then it's the belting/piping/power etc that's super tidious, but I break things up in manageable chunks, and try to move forward with satisfying results
like my water project : I'm building the tower now instead of piping the thousands of pipe support to do something different, and I'll get back to piping later on
left flame
Ok numberporn people a Question, this sounds like a school maths problem I thought I would never need!
I have 3 stations, each with 3 platforms, each suppled by 2 maxed out belts of quartz. I need to get this back to my main base.
do I
A: send 3x trains with 1 carriage to all 3 stations then back to my central depo
B: split the 2 belts into 3 and send 3 trains to only 1 station each then back
wind spade
C: make a transfer station somewhere (based on where the 3 stations + your main base are located), have 3 trains delivering the quartz to the transfer station where it is picked by a larger train that delivers it to main base
woeful skiff
I think we could come up with a system of equations for this but in order to solve them we'd need to know how long it takes the trains to make the loop (plan A) versus how long it takes each train to do it's leg in the hub/spoke topology (plan B). I'm going to consider plan C extra credit since it was not part of the question ๐
fluid berry
D: not use trains at all
fluid berry
i agree with the latter, but they are definatly not awesome (yet)
wind spade
why not?
fluid berry
they are ok, for single lines, but i wouldnยดt wanna build a complex system
oblique hollow
its only as complex as you think it to be
wild totem
I wish the train track was better to lay down, i hate how it auto turns,
even on foundations it can be a pita
fluid berry
and not having them save you the "nightmare" of thinking about how much you need.
fluid berry
trains, cars, stations
wild totem
ive only done point to point trains, i havent tried building a network yet lol
circuit, w/e
wind spade
yeah just A <-> B trains are the best
fluid berry
upgrading them also seems tedious, more cars, more locos needed
wind spade
much easier than building extra belt tho
oblique hollow
upgrading anything is tedious, what did you expect
wild totem
upgrading belts are the worst.... im on mk5 and im pretty sure i still got some mk2 or 3s running
fluid berry
its a bit of work, more or less. i meant it saves you from thinking if the locos pulling the train that now has more cars. will it be enough, will it effect loop time etc.
wild totem
and i dont bother upgrading my trains if ive already built a 6 car train, i just build a whole new train line lol
oblique hollow
just plop down a loco every 9 or so cars
wild totem
ive always ever had just 1 loco on the front and back pulling cars
oblique hollow
im sure theres a general rule
wild totem
but ive never had more than 6 cars on 1 train
oblique hollow
just remember: the longer the distance the more cars you need
wind spade
just build your trains bigger from the start ๐
oblique hollow
90% of the time people really only have troubles with their trains if its either a double headed train or they didnt take the direction of the train station into consideration
fluid berry
i just dont like them, the non collision, lack of signals. it might be more work to belt everything, but building the actual factories is alot more work
wild totem
yeah when i was playing with the trains on experimental took me a while to figure out how to put the stations
fluid berry
and i dont have to worry about belts not working
oblique hollow
if you have the choice between a kilometer long belts and a train, the train is mostly the better option. belts affect the performance a lot
wild totem
having a 500 km belt line seems to affect performance tho
oblique hollow
and a train is honestly easier to upgrade than a belt
fluid berry
im at 45km belt and most of it is close enough. iยดll think about it once the real endgame is released. for now i canot do anything more than prepare a nuclear plant.
oblique hollow
in your case i also wouldnt use a train. they really only shine at long distance transport
just like you wont use trucks for a 20 m haul
fluid berry
i like NW desert, it feels so central
oblique hollow
im a the grass field and transport oil based products via a single train line over from the lake region
wild totem
my base is totally spread to fuck lol what website is that
fluid berry
i could use a train for crude from the south and maybe sulfur and coal from the west. but the steel is made from the coal above the waterfall from the middle and directly converted into pipes
oblique hollow
the satisfactory calculator
fluid berry
oblique hollow
you can load save files and view and edit them on there
fluid berry
it looks abit weird, but its all a single grid ๐
well, 99% of it
i like sharp corners
oblique hollow
are those coal plants?
fluid berry
on the top right, yes
wild totem
fluid berry
i havenยดt bothered to disconnect coal power yet, see if fuel runs smoother
more like the rubber, for now it tends to backup on fuel
but there is barely anything running, not even sinking elevator stuff for now, since im reworking oil
Hah, i have 9km of transport tube. just out of boredom expanding it to new corners that i never touch after HD collection
wild totem
Dunno if you care or not but there's my spread base lol
oblique hollow
yeah, i definitely would have slapped 1 or 2 trains in there
wild totem
the pink lines are trains
oblique hollow
whats being mined at the top right?
wild totem
sulfur crystal
oblique hollow
or better said: middle top
fluid berry
you need that much sulfur? i think you got the 2 north and south of grassland too?
wild totem
i just mine it and store it if i need it i got it lol i only got 2 mk3 miners working the crystal/sulfur
woeful skiff
You do not appear to be mining quartz.
fluid berry
i havent even touched mk3 miners, since Mk5 belts are too slow to really make use of them. maybe no non pure nodes, but i dont really use much of those
wild totem
it's up by sulfur the top middle
woeful skiff
ah
wild totem
and yeah there's some closer but its the first one i found hence why its there
woeful skiff
yea I was about to say you could've found one further away in the desert ๐ but then I decided not to be a dick ๐
fluid berry
there should be 2 pure quartz node where the dead end in the middle is
in a cave
i dont think i need trains yet. the belts from the right are a bit much (coal, sulfur, quartz), joined in the top middle by 3x480i/m steel tubes. bauxite comes from the red forrest behind me (steep climb for trains)
Oil could be on trains, since its single "item"
but if you builds towards your base, distances for finished items get shorter. im about to join some platforms to get rid of the transport tube going zigzag across it ^^
but i would go for trains in grassland start i thinkr, since you have less pure coal/iron around. oil should be about the same distance
dim thicket
Desert is great for no trains. Still used one for quartz anyway
Sulfur is a little far away too
rough phoenix
I have 3 mk1 miners, looking to make iron to smelt into rods, plates, and screws. idk how to read the calculators.
dim thicket
If you're early game, forget the calculators. They're mostly for late game people who want to optimize everything
Everything is in pretty simple ratios, and you're likely not able to move product at over 60parts/minute
@rough phoenix You can, more or less, put one input to one output. It's not fully efficient, but you shouldn't care as long as you're making products. Clean it up as you advance.
rough phoenix
ok
I was just trying to do it early so that I didn't have to do it again later xD
@dim thicket
dim thicket
As you get better at the game you'll find the best ways to do everything. My suggestion is to experiment. You'll also get upgrades that kinda force you to rebuild
spice holly
you'll just get overwhelmed with the amount of information you get.
with alts and what not, you're def going to rebuild some stuff
dim thicket
The best base is one that allows you to change stuff quickly
rough phoenix
Thatโs true
My first 50 hours got lost a when I did a computer reset a few months back so I was trying to make it back quick and have been trying to make it really effective to where I didnโt have to rebuild for awhile.
boreal cypress
28,8 Fuel Rods per minute.. or 144 Nuclear Power Plants ... i need a lot of Water .-. any ideas how to get the perfect ratios of water pumps?
unborn ermine
144x300 / 120 Or if you wanna slug it up to 150, 288 extractors
Either way its nasty
boreal cypress
nah cant use 150. only have a full 780 line of uran
unborn ermine
Oh no, I mean extractors, 2 per pipe
boreal cypress
ah okay
no :D can use 5 extractors for 2 300 pipes
that will be a huge pipe work .-.
unborn ermine
I know I would just want to simplify it at first somehow, I hate placing them. ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
boreal cypress
cant i just use 3 power shards for my water pump to get 300 mยณ?
so just 144 extractor
unborn ermine
Its possible, but iirc they can be funky when feeding nuclear plants if its just the pipe.
Dont quote me on that, its what I remember reading on here. ๐
boreal cypress
what means iirc?
unborn ermine
If I recall correctly
boreal cypress
thanks :)
i go to sleep... played 12h just for the set up to buil Nuclear Fuel Rods xD
Maybe tomorrow im getting into nuclear xD
unborn ermine
I know I would just build the rods and sink them just to say I did it and have that under my belt ๐
g'night
boreal cypress
i already sink them xD they are very worthy :D
vocal sundial
According to the math title..
Has anyone ever strugglet with the Reinforced plates/Iron Rods to Modular Frames proportion? (Error 404, no better english word found)
I struggled because I had 6 Assemblers producing 5 reinforced Plates each/min and 10 Assemblers eating 3 of them/min. That eaquals 15.. I were happy.. but splitting from 5 by 6 to 3 by 10 is a pain in the rear bumper..
Same with Iron Rods (15/min out of 8 to 12/min in 10).
I found a somewhat solution in the internet but it almost took a whole floor of my building to level it.
Some more simple solutions here?
wind spade
yeah, don't do exact splits, use manifolds
--S--S--S--S--S--S--S
| | | | | | |
X X X X X X X
yes. round the numbers up ... if you need 9 per minute and your machines are giving you 4 per machine... get 3 machines which produce 12
oh you mean that :D
vocal sundial
@wind spade the problem there was/is that it splits into 1/2 each.. so first one gets 1/2. second 1/4. third 1/8.. and so on.. because I had the rods being filled in counterwise it lead to only the middle machine working properly..
In my opinion this is not a great solution.
But that you anyway!
wind spade
after the first machine gets filled, the next machine gets more items
that's how it works
vocal sundial
What bugged me was that the total numbers fit just perfectly.. And I'm really a guy who's facing perfection in this game.. even my spaghetti doesn look like xD
wind spade
in the end, you'll get the same efficiency as if you did exact splits (after most machines are filled)
but you don't have to worry about doing exact splits and also you can extend this easily later
vocal sundial
beacuse I fit them with a 1 to 1 ratio, its not gonna fill up without a loss of material and time..
boreal cypress
if you want to split everything have fun with aluminium and nuclear
wind spade
how much time did you spent coming with the balancers that split by exact numbers? ๐
and yes, you lose some items, but we have infinite resources, so who cares? also, yes, you lose some time, but that can be avoided by just prefilling the machines
vocal sundial
@boreal cypress damn, now I'm not that excited ๐ I'll see how it'll work out..
wind spade
and finally - in the time you're waiting for it to fill up, you can as well continue building, so it's not really wasted time
boreal cypress
@vocal sundial have fun without manifold (nuclear) xD 780 uran to 28,8 nuclear fuel rods
wind spade
if you want to know how long would it take for your setup to start working on full 100%, feel free to use my tool for calculating that https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/machine-fill
vocal sundial
@wind spade Yeah, you're right. it wont matter.. but in my mind its chewing on me.. because I know its not working most efficient ๐ ๐คฆโโ๏ธ
Sorry for that.
And time.. lets say a few hours at least with planning and building
wind spade
yeah. Compare that to a few minutes spent building manifold ๐
clear citrus
Oh good, greeny's not dead
wind spade
why would I be dead?
boreal cypress
its only not 100% efficient in the first minutes, but after 5 to 10minutes its mostly 100% effiecient
stark lichen
greeny pops in to tell people to make manifolds and not to bus
vocal sundial
@wind spade wow, thanks for that link! I'll use it for sure!
And the thing with the time.. I had fun ๐
clear citrus
Well mostly that's just something I say when I don't see someone for a while
wind spade
yeah, there's corona and stuff, but I didn't come out before corona, so why would I come out now ๐
clear citrus
Because I'm me, I guess
vocal sundial
@boreal cypress thats awesome! where is it on the map if I might ask?
boreal cypress
Manifold also saves a lot of space and you can add or branch off something, which is not possible with the other method
wind spade
I'm a developer, we're locked in a basement and we never see light or other people other than pizza delivery guys ๐ค
boreal cypress
@vocal sundial west coast oil
vocal sundial
@boreal cypress alrighty
clear citrus
And it's good because I'm still waiting for your consumption calculator update ๐
boreal cypress
@vocal sundial need the Water for 144 nuclear power plant ... one power plant is consuming 300mยณ so ...
wind spade
I'm still working on it
vocal sundial
so, one pipe ๐
wind spade
though now withthe current situation, I need to work more for my regular work and that leaves me less time for personal projects
clear citrus
Corona makes you have to work more?
wind spade
(fiancee lost a job so we need to live from one salary before she gets a new job, which is close to impossible in these times)
boreal cypress
no 144 pipes xD
vocal sundial
yeah, one pipe each xD
toxic flax
Make manifolds. Prefill machines.
Words to live by.
I do the same with my mergers, at least up to the capacity of the current tier of belt I can make.
clear citrus
Prefilling actually makes the delay longer I think. Because those first outputs that would have backed up while waiting for the others start getting consumed and dont back p
You skip the delay with some early product, but then the delay is longer
toxic flax
Nah, not if you got an indy storage right before to fill up.
Then you start filling down the line as you go.
first machine, second machine, third machine, on down the row till you get to the last machine.
vocal sundial
@wind spade time you ask?
clear citrus
Shade
vocal sundial
@stark lichen when I made this I did'nt know it existed ๐คทโโ๏ธ
stark lichen
pfft, you just need to update some numbers, that's all
clear citrus
And add all the new water things
vocal sundial
@stark lichen I'm not quite sure that it is taht easy ๐ค
wind spade
multiple product recipes?
vocal sundial
*that
vocal sundial
jeez, but some people have to work ๐
wind spade
yeah. Don't worry, I'm working on it. I even have a semi-functional version. I just want it to be good
clear citrus
Really? I would have thought that was the easiest part.
Is it not just like, find the part of you code that says "1 refinery spits out 10 plastic a minute for 10 oil" or whatever and just add "and 10 cubic meters of hor".
Except in code speak.
stark lichen
Please! I am running out of napkins to do all this math. I need to save paper products.
wind spade
well that's easy, yeah. The issue comes in when you want to use the byproduct in the same production chain. And another issue appears, when you have alternate recipes, where you need to decide which one to use based on the byproducts (and efficiency, etc.)
clear citrus
Like an actual calculator
wind spade
if you open old version, you'll see that you can have alt recipe picker. But you pick alternate recipes to use for the product. However, some recipes now produce multiple products, so you can't really put alt recipe picker there in the same way
I'm trying to explain it simple, but if you want advanced stuff and technical details, I can discuss it and show you why it's not so easy to do
vocal sundial
On what platform/what language do you write all of this?
wind spade
original calculator is plain javascript + angularjs + some other minor libs.
new calculator is being written in TypeScript from scrach, uses angularjs as well (and is/will be opensource)
clear citrus
Well you know how a disabled ingredient, the calculator just makes a little box saying "bring this in"?
You could do that (in reverse) with byproducts.
If a longer chain needs it's own byproducts, have the machine that makes it spit it out to a box, then later in the chain where it's needed have an in box.
That way you never have to worry about byproduct produced numbers in your calculator's chain.
Would that be easier?
wind spade
easier? yes. produce good results? no.
I'm trying to make a tool that finds the BEST way to do stuff, not the easiest
vocal sundial
@wind spade thats pretty nice. I just thougt of writing some stuff in java, but I think it exceeds my qualification. But with all the freetime I have, maybe. 2 semesters of java should be good for something, right? ๐
@wind spade thank you for all the work and effort put into this!
wind spade
also, how would you handle in your case, if a byproduct wasn't available in enough quantity? e.g. HOR, which doesn't have a recipe on it's own and is always produced as a byproducts of something
how would you decide which way to use to get HOR?
clear citrus
Actually there is a hor recipe ftr
And a resin one too
I've seen resin was told about hor
clear citrus
Well, say a chain needs hor and plastic.
Those demands won't require the same number of refineries, so your calculator shows the one that needs more of them.
The one the calculator is showing at full use is shown going to the next machines, the ones that's being overproduced because you needing enough machines goes to the outside box. Then later in the chain where it's needed it has the incoming box. The incoming box being a smaller number tells the user they need to sink excess.
toxic flax
btw, greeny, if you're the one who made the calc, thanks a ton.
clear citrus
I know little about code though I'm just theorizing
Naturally a chain that doesn't use it's own byproducts just ends it at the outbox
wind spade
@clear citrus example situation:
user requests 60/min turbofuel with Turbo Heavy Fuel and Compacted Coal alts only, all other alts are disabled
turbo heavy fuel requires compacted coal (that's easy) and HOR. How do you get the HOR? You have only two "vanilla" options, rubber or plastic production. Which one does it pick? Why?
clear citrus
Rubber because it makes more
wind spade
how do you compare "making more"? here it's kinda simple, but there are lots of other cases where it's not that clear
you can "make more", but use way more resources in the process
or produce more useless byproducts/products
what if similar decision was to be made in multiple places? They both have effect on each other (since they can use their own byproducts)
you can't just decide what's the best without looking at the whole production tree
and you also need to specify what's "best"
is it better to produce 9 wire from 5 iron ingots or 2 wire from 1 copper ingot?
that's a subjective question, depends on user's priorities, resources, etc
that's not something that a tool can decide without additional input
(and if it does, then it's not an objective tool, which I'm trying to avoid)
clear citrus
Don't you already account for that with the option to disable recipes
wind spade
what if user has both recipes enabled? (iron wire and copper wire)
clear citrus
Consumption calculator, cough, also does that because I get to say "I only have iron"
wind spade
yeah but that's the additional input
spice holly
would a tick box saying "use weighted value for resources" work?
wind spade
@spice holly something along those lines is planned, although much more than just a box
spice holly
the weighted value would then be compared to the number of nodes available in the map, so in this case, copper would have a higher weighted value.
ah, i c.
i can see it being complicated and what not, especially with the loop setups, like what you need to do to get 3 rubber/plastic from 1 oil.
wind spade
yeah the loops are one reason why I can't use the "go from product to starting resources" type of process, like I did before
clear citrus
I honestly think it might be best to not worry about chains using their own byproducts. Just having the chain run through the line of resources that get fully consumed, with the other resources that are made in excess being sent out to and in from "sidebars".
wind spade
yeah but it's not always that you have extra of the byproducts
as I said, you sometimes need more of the byproducts than you can produce
also with that approach (impossible btw, since loops are there), you're abandoning the better ways to make stuff
clear citrus
Oh I'm not limiting the sidebar to the technical byproduct as the recipe shows
wind spade
like fuel from the rubber-plastic cycle
clear citrus
The sidebar is whichever half of the recipe you make too much of when making the other half to exactly what's consumed
wind spade
sure but then again there's the issue
you need e.g. HOR
and you need to choose a way to get it
clear citrus
H.o.r is really not the best example because making rubber produces twice as much as making plastic
boreal cypress
what is HOR?
wind spade
how's that relevant tho?
you produce plastic instead of rubber
HOR = heavy oil residue
you don't know if producing plastic is better/worse than rubber
clear citrus
If what you want is hor, producing rubber is better
wind spade
but what if somewhere in the chain was plastic required?
then producing plastic would be better
what if there's some plastic required, so the best way is to produce some plastic and some rubber?
boreal cypress
thanks for HOR :D
clear citrus
I already talked about that. Both plastic and hor are needed, calculator shows how to make exactly enough if the one less is needed of, and send the other too the side to be brought back in
wind spade
then we again end in the loop. To resolve situation A (if to produce plastic or rubber as a byproduct), we need to have every other situation resolved to know how much of each resource do we need. But situation B may have two options, where one option needs plastic and the other doesn't
clear citrus
That's a matter of what the player told the calculator to make, no?
wind spade
well a player can say "I have all alts", so the tool will have all the options
clear citrus
No I mean like, they plugged in their desired output in the first place. Turbofuel or computers or whatever.
So they calc knows if they need plastic or not
wind spade
well, no
because you can make them in a multiple ways
you can use some alts, you can ignore others
or even mix them
toxic flax
Perhaps optimize based on user input? Ask the user what they want to optimize by?
spice holly
the point of calculators is so that it can optimize the stuff for you.
wind spade
@toxic flax I already have most of the solution in place, that's not the issue. What we're discussing is why @clear citrus's solution won't produce best results (and will also break in some cases)
toxic flax
Ah, ok.
woeful skiff
Most users don't know
@clear citrus ha, and you said you knew little about coding
clear citrus
I mean I just, I don't see it.
If some users production line, with the alts they said they have needs hypothetically 3.5 machines worth of hor and 3 machines of plastic, your calculator shows the hor go from them to the next machine, and the plastic goes off the the side to show what you're getting from 3.5, then a different line in where plastic is used shows the smaller number actually needed, so they know they'll get too much.
Oh I just had an unrelated thought
What might be a nice feature for calculators is separating input if a single resources to separate inputs, based on either node outputs or belt speeds.
Like if a line needs 330 ore, show a 240 and a 90. Or for Mk.3 belt limit 270 and 60.
Personally I'd vote for node based over belt based
wind spade
@clear citrus it's super simple.
You have a lot of options for every "step". Let's try computers.
Computer has 3 recipes. Vanilla one, Caterium computer and Crystal computer. At this point you need to somehow decide, which one do you want to use. User has all the alt recipes, so he just wants the most efficient one. How do you pick which recipe is the best?
clear citrus
For the production calculator?
You want to minimize each resource used. The combo of alts that nets the smallest iron, smallest copper, smallest quartz, smallest caterium, smallest oil.
Like the total raw resources in. The combo with the smallest total.
wind spade
there will be just one calculator, they won't be separated anymore
how do you count byproducts into that equation btw?
clear citrus
Does that or does that not still let me say "I have this much raw I want to use" and work bottom up or will yours be limited to top down like the others
wind spade
it will hopefully/eventually have all the features combined and much more
clear citrus
That's why you da best
wind spade
so you're assuming all resources have the same weight
for some people, it's more important to save on oil than on iron
clear citrus
No, but the weighting is subjective
wind spade
and you still haven't answered my question :)
how do you count byproducts into that equation btw?
clear citrus
So you can't put weighting in your calculator that will make everyone happy
wind spade
I can and I already did ๐
clear citrus
By letting them define it themselves, you mean
wind spade
exactly
clear citrus
I talked about byoroducts before. The half of a recipe made in excess goes out to and in from sidebar.
Which recipe is used is still about minimizing raw, or maximizing final output, depending on which way we're working
wind spade
but how do you weight byproducts
clear citrus
(casual self conscious plug again about me talking theory while not knowing code)
wind spade
because it's different if you produce 20 plastic/min only and if you produce 20 plastic/min with some byproduct e.g. 10/min
the other option being subjectively better, since I can use that byproduct somewhere
clear citrus
I'd say that for the purposes of your calculator running numbers for one chain, a byproducts that's not used is either avoided or ignored.
So for your example, if that's 20 plastic with a byproduct being eaten in the same line, that's better. If it's 20 with no byproduct existing vs 20 with an unused byproduct then the no byproduct option should be chosen imo.
Because from what I gather from this Discord, most players would just sink that 10 unused byproduct so they don't have to worry about using it, and if they want whatever it is have a different factory for it somewhere. But of course the calculator would be ok with showing an unused byproduct when the numbers don't match perfectly like they do in this 20 vs 20 example
What say you about the unrelated idea of separating a single resource into multiple inputs based on nodes/belts?
wind spade
well sinking something is good for the player
they get more points, so that should be better
clear citrus
they also use more power, and mehthinks a calaculator should worry more about power than tickets
it could also be a setting
"give me sinkables" vs "avoid sinkables"
wind spade
more power? what if the process that generates the byproduct used less power?
clear citrus
I was only comparing power to tickets. Within the chain power's not part of the equation, just resource efficiency. I believe thats what all the calculators already do anyhow
wind spade
if they do it, they probably assume all resources are weighted the same
clear citrus
I've been using the other calculators while waiting for yours.
far as I've noticed they weight equally, and don't worry about power
wind spade
anyway, there's just no way I can make your "just ingore byproducts" attitude work. I've tried to explain why, but I guess I'm bad at explaining stuff
clear citrus
it's not ignoring them per say, it's just using a sidebar so that overproduction of on half a recipe isn't a problem
wind spade
and again - overproduction is not the issue. Recipe selection is
clear citrus
but you told somebody earlier you already have a solution in the works, so I guess you've accounted for that
wind spade
I have a solution, it's just very different from your suggested solution and the existing solution and that's why the tool takes so long to rewrite
clear citrus
so how are you handling the overproduction of half a recipe, if not sending the excess to an output box?
wind spade
I'm not calculating it from the end or from the begining at all
I'm passing the whole recicpe list to a linear programming algorithm (simplex method) in a matrix and it outputs the best possible solution optimized for a given variable
clear citrus
i don't know what any of that means but you'll still end up with situations where you need 4.2 refineries of one output and 4.8 of the other output (of one recipe), which means making too much of the first part, and have to redirect the excess somewhere
wind spade
yes, there may be excess resources
clear citrus
...which go to their own output box? Or perhaps you actually include the sink, which is really doing the same thing
wind spade
you're talking now about how do I display it as a result?
woeful skiff
dang you are basically running prolog in my web browser
clear citrus
what to do with the excess of half a recipe (and how to display it) was the starting point of my whole idea
wind spade
well from what you said it seemed like you're suggesting that approach during calculation
which is what we've been discussing the whole time - why the calculation is so hard since Update 3
how do I display the actual result (e.g. if I show it going to sink or if I show it in an extra box or anything like that) is irrelevant to the calculation process
clear citrus
the stuff I said about input and output boxes, I was literally just referring to the calculator graphic of a box saying "deliver 120 screws/min because you said you wont' make them in this chain"
wind spade
but that's not how the calculator works
if it needs 120 screws, it will produce them from raw resources
clear citrus
unless you tell it not to
wind spade
well yeah, but that's irrelevant here
clear citrus
right but what I was saying before was just that you could have your refineries sent hor or plastic or whatever to a box on the side, then make a different box on the side as if it was being delivered. Then the user can compare the numbers to see the excess
and your calculator gets to show the chain just using the resources that don't create excess
wind spade
... why would I do that? that's essentially showing them a list of recipes and telling them "here, work this out"
clear citrus
I mean it's basically just like if they ran a belt outside the plant, down the wall, and back in in front of the machines that need the input
wind spade
but not knowing whether it would be enough, excess or exact amount
clear citrus
what? no they can see the numbers. Like at the first rmaching the box says you made 200 plastic/min and and the in box it says they need 150
so they know they have 50 extra
while the hor being made to the exact amount is shown running directly to the next machines
wind spade
but they have to do this with every single product
which may be over 50 different items
why wouldn't the tool do this for them already? and just show them the result?
clear citrus
because you were talking about how hard it is to deal with double output recipies and I thought it would be easier for you if you could just send one of the outputs to a sidebar
wind spade
but that doesn't deal with them
that's just ignoring the byproduct completely
(and yes I know you said I could reuse it, but there are loops, so you wouldn't be able to reuse them always and you also couldn't make decisions based on whether you do or don't have a certain byproduct)
clear citrus
am I right in thinking that when you talk about loops it's just connecting the end of a manifold back to the beginning
wind spade
also it still doesn't change the fact that ALL of the code was written with single product in mind, so you'd still need to rewrite at least most of it to get it working with multiple products.
clear citrus
at any rate I just had a theory I thought might make your life easier.
If it doesn't then, well, don't do it.
I wonder though what you feel about the other unrelated idea I had, about seperating a single input resource to multiple inputs based on node output or belt/pipe speed?
wind spade
ok, let's see your sidebar idea.
you start at a recipe. That recipe produces a final item and a byproduct X, let's say 20/min. Somewhere down in the chain, you require 50 X/min. Now you need to find a way to get extra 30 X/min from SOMEWHERE and you don't know from where. You can have multiple options to produce X
and we can go even deeper. Some of the options to produce X also produce some other byproducts, that you could use in your original production line. But if you'd use them, you'd change the need for X to be higher/lower.
all of that needs to be decided basically at the same time, since you want to optimise for lowest amount of resources
essentially leaving us to try all options, which can be thousands or even millions of options
theoretically even infinite options
clear citrus
for a given defined output, how are you to decide if not by minimizing input, or in reverse if given a set input if not by maximizing output?
wind spade
I'm not deciding
I'm leaving that to the linear programming algorithm
and I just show the result
clear citrus
but you tell it how to decide, no?
You code it to minimize input or maximize output
wind spade
I get you're trying to help me, but your solution is impossible to do
I can't go through the options and choose the best one myself
clear citrus
I never meant to imply that
wind spade
well you said that multiple times
anyway, I'm not really trying to find the easiest solution
that's what most of the existing tools did
I'm trying to find the best possible solution for the user
clear citrus
which is why you had the only consumption calculator
wind spade
that gives him as much control over the result as possible, but still makes the tool do all the work (or at least most of it)
scarlet marsh
you dont want to player to have to calculate it
thats what the calculator is for
greeny has the right idea
i guess the questions im not sure how to answer
is how are different resources valued?
wind spade
well I don't want to spoil too much from the new tool (since stuff still may change), but I essentially let user do the weighting
with an option to make all resources equal or set it from the complete map ratios
scarlet marsh
thats probably best
nimble knoll
I've found the calculator somewhat difficult to read, and it always seems to use the most ridiculous amount of over/underclocking
wind spade
I'm still not sure about what should be the default, but it'll be either all equal or weighted map ratios
scarlet marsh
it would probably be good to have the total map resource output be selectable as an resource option limit too
so user does not have to figure that out
wind spade
my calculator never does any under/overclocking @nimble knoll
it's up to the user to decide
clear citrus
technically speaking, none of the calcuators clock. They just point out that for what you asked you need 3.5 machines
nimble knoll
what website is your calculator?
clear citrus
personally I just build the 4th
wind spade
https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/, though it only works for Update 2 at the moment
scarlet marsh
well if you want it to produce at the rate you intend, ofc you need to round up
wind spade
I'm working on update 3 now
so far only have item browser right now https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev/
nimble knoll
oh right i used a different one. I guess I'll try yours since i didn't like the other one
wind spade
yeah, though if you want update 3, you'd need to wait ๐ฆ
nimble knoll
oh wow your flowchart is so much easier to read
clear citrus
Greeny, will your new one do extra things like show how many belts one needs based on the Mk. they have?
wind spade
that was there since I added the visualization lol
that's almost a year
oh yeah the tool is already over a year old
I missed it's birthday
well I guess party will be next year
clear citrus
Understandable. I miss my own birthday sometimes
astral hornet
Did some planning for a factory floor, any thoughts?
wind spade
if you have one at 100% and one at 33%, it's slightly better to have them both on 67% (saves a bit more power)
same as other situations
oh, you're using one for input to another building I see
then it's only for the screws I guess
astral hornet
Oh, that's good to know, thanks! Yeah, the 100/33% one works out too nicely.
wind spade
it's very small saving, but if you care about power, it may help you a bit
astral hornet
Since I'm still on coal power, I might as well
and heck, we're all about efficiency
wind spade
only issue is that it's harder to upgrade those setups later if you want to add more machines
but it probably isn't your problem right now
astral hornet
yeah, this is just a floor for providing some components to a mall and if full, to an item sink
so I don't need more output than that
tulip ingot
yo what is that program?
uncut pine
so how much oil makes a unpure mine? 60 or 124?
and with the oil rests, i must use a another machine? to get them out?
glacial hemlock
60
ornate zodiac
It's best to spread any overclocking over the whole rack, saves more power that way
sharp crow
same with underclocking
woeful skiff
how does overclocking save power in any circumstance? or was that a typo?
idle vigil
just that you should overclock each thing a little instead of one thing a lot, I'm guessing
woeful skiff
Oh I just read it wrong.
viral lagoon
a helpful guide to automation: https://bit.ly/2QYv191
dark depot
final steel:
4 assemblers for motors
8 assemblers for rotors
10 assemblers for stators
240 steel pipes per min
enough for 3x speed on turbo motors with correct alts
at least steel pipes are figured out am i right? ๐
vagrant knot
@astral hornet what did you use to illustrate that?
vagrant knot
Thanks
vagrant knot
Very useful nonetheless, Thanks a bunch ๐
astral hornet
I set the grid to size 20 and then for some reason when you draw rectangles, it perfectly matches up with Satisfactory sizing
astral hornet
lol that belt looks drunk
left flame
can double it up, but still takes 1 and a half blocks
idle vigil
@left flame I do that but lower the level of the 4-stack so they're more even
so two are going up and two down
vagrant knot
iorek, what are you trying to achieve with the belts?
left flame
vagrant knot
you want a tidy way to get 4 stacked conveyor lines into the manufacterer?
left flame
just a simple manufacture that I can make lines and lines of
yes
even better if I could fit 2 inside 7 blocks
vagrant knot
Ooh
I like that more, stacked conveyors down the middle with splitters to conveyor lifts seems very tidy
left flame
but its 2 extra bits, a lift at each side that I ned to upgrade at t8
uses alot of height too
idle vigil
just put the stacks along the outside, why down the middle?
left flame
tho I think I go past 7 blocks wide when I try to collect at the outsides ๐ฆ
because if I put them on the outside I can only feed 1?
and it takes more room?
left flame
the roof has no hitbox... so I can keep it inside 7 blocks by hideously clipping through the roof.
hopefully never patched!
dark depot
hopefully structure integrity never becomes a thing...
dark depot
never gonna happen and if they add structure integrity this game is dead to me ๐
left flame
it would be a pretty cool addition tho ๐
dark depot
make it a mod, keep away from vanilla
dark depot
163% what am i referring to pro's?
dark kelp
anyone experimenting with load balancing?
wind spade
most of the people here use manifolds rather than bother with load balancing
dark kelp
oh gotcha, yeah I am doing the same
I have 4 input lines for screws.... but they get kinda botched when I try and pull from them
so I wanted to let it rebalance in the event only 1 or 2 lines are being pulled from
wind spade
well if you're only pulling max of one line, you don't have to rebalance it at all
this isn't factorio, you have infinite resources, so there's no point of balancing
dark kelp
the issue im having is that I have 4 lines for screws and below that 2 lines for rods... if I have something pull from the rod lines the screw lines go dry pretty quick... so I need to rebalance the screws so that I can pull from them and instead of killing 2 of my screw lines it just runs all 4 at half speed
or add a buffer i guess...
wind spade
in the end it's all the same
dark kelp
well its not though... cause it means if I have something that pulls from only one screw line it gets dried out
wind spade
also, you shouldn't use one line for two different things like that ๐
if the rods are used for screws and you need rods elsewhere, just make new rods
woeful skiff
I just dedicate rod constructors to the screw constructors, and have other rod constructors for other places I need rods.
dark kelp
yeah I suppose that would work as well XD
woeful skiff
oh, yea what greeny said ๐
dark kelp
I was messing around and getting 3 or 2 lines to self balance is really easy.... but getting 4 lines to self balance is a pain in the ass XD
its for a main bus
woeful skiff
I don't know why people build busses though. I design my factories to consume a specific X/sec of each thing it needs and I feed it exactly that.
wind spade
well I don't build main bus, so ๐คทโโ๏ธ
yeah, exactly. I mean main bus works, but it's a lot of unnecessary work and belt building and in the end it has the same (or worse) efficiency
and you need to care about all the balancing, amounts on belts, etc.
woeful skiff
I definitely build little mini busses inside my factories sometimes.
dark kelp
I think it definitely has some disadvantages... but im at the point where ive gathered everything in T4 and I can pull litterally any resource if I needed to make something.... all in one location
I just feed the main enterance with raw mats and the rest is manufactured for me
wind spade
I usually build a new factory for every new item, somewhere near the nodes I need for it
it's easier to extend or copy/paste
and you get a clear input/output
dark kelp
Lol yeah I hate buildings bunch of mini factories haah
woeful skiff
I admit my storage is currently unfortunately scattered, but hypertubes help a lot with that, and I'm holding out until I get trains to build a centralized storage plaza.
dark kelp
I bring everything to one location
wind spade
I do too. But I ship final products, not raw ores ๐
dark kelp
Itโs a different play style
vast copper
hey gang, can I merge 3 pipes with 200/m each and output 2 pipes with 300/m ?
vast copper
great thanks
dark kelp
Pipes are convent cause they automatically balance haha
woeful skiff
I've been operating under the assumption that if I run a bundle of n pipes together in a pipeline that are interconnected every so often, with attention to where inputs/outputs are relative to those connections, that I could basically treat it like an n x 300 pipe, and so far that's been working okay for me.
vast copper
yeah if you "refill" the pipe after a machine has taken some fluid kinda
nimble knoll
10 rotor/m
50 rod/m
50 iron/m
300 screw/m
75 iron/m
10 stator/m
30 steel pipe/m
45 steel/m
45 iron ore/m
45 coal/m
80 wire/m
40 copper/m
Total raw input for 5/m:
180 iron/m
45 coal/m
40 copper/m```did i do this right?
clear citrus
You made one fatal mistake. You don't have the solid steel alt.
But it looks right otherwise
glacial hemlock
You made 3 more mistakes. No iron wires, pure iron and pure coppers
dark kelp
not having a recipe is not a mistake
bitter radish
you guys doing proper maths and im just here like "ooh, yes, this limestone is made out of limestone"
glacial hemlock
NO. Concrete is made of limestone
dark kelp
that moment when you gotta build up a peaker plant cause you dont have enough water to supply your base with coal power...
astral hornet
Could it be worth it to forego oil processing and build computers with the crystal computer and silicone circuit board alt recipes?
You'd need a heck of a lot manufacturers to build the crystal oscillators...
glacial hemlock
Caterium computer + silicon circuit boards
astral hornet
I haven't set up oil processing yet (or at least plastic/rubber) production yet since update 3. The recipes scare me :p
reef turtle
Yeah, I'm starting to poke around with them.
There are certainly a lot of options, once you get all the alt recipes.
astral hornet
yeah, I have most of them. I should look into the ratios, I guess, because as far as I can tell at the moment, you'll always end up with something left over (either resin or heavy oil residue or fuel)
reef turtle
Yeah, that's the part I'm trying to dig into.
astral hornet
I'd hate for the solution to simply be "end up with something you can dump in an awesome sink"
reef turtle
Indeed.
If I may compare this to Factorio, what I very much like about how that game works is, if nothing else, you can ultimately reduce anything to petroleum gas, which is the oil product you need the most.
So you don't end up with excess output floating around.
astral hornet
e.g. that's what I love about the Uranium Pellet recipe, and I think where they cheated from Factorio a bit: you have to loop back a part of the sulfuric acid to continue the chain.
Exactly, oil processing in Factorio is EXTREMELY satisfying to set up
reef turtle
The Satisfactory equivalent would be if you could loop anything back to plastic/rubber.
astral hornet
or polymer resin for all I care
reef turtle
Or, conceivably, to fuel, to burn for power or whatever.
astral hornet
but yeah, they mentioned yesterday in the stream that recipes will be rebalanced with future updates, so we're far from done.
yeah but the thing is, you can build up extra fuel as well,
you can build as much fuel generators as you want, if you're not spending the power it'll just back up as well
reef turtle
In the near future I am going to make a visualization of the recipe graph, and just stare at it for a while.
Indeed.
But everything ultimately backs up. I think the point is to have a system where you can pull any one item out and know that you can get it, without being blocked by some other item's backup.
astral hornet
yep
reef turtle
And most of the time, with this oil stuff, that means plastic or rubber.
astral hornet
that's also why overflow splitters are imo such a needed item.
astral hornet
It's the number one upvoted question on the QA site
and me saying "copy it from factorio" as top voted answer :p
reef turtle
I was musing with myself about how one might make these from the existing tools, but didn't come up with anything sensible.
reef turtle
I did see some comments about how smart splitters almost work, but I think they changed them at some point.
astral hornet
yeah, apparently smart splitters used to work like this or so?
reef turtle
Ohhh, yes, this, I did indeed consider this approach.
astral hornet
Because that would make sense IMO, include that functionality as part of the smart splitter (or programmable splitter though I feel that's quite high up in the tech tree)
reef turtle
But my conclusion was that the number of splitters/mergers you'd need to achieve an acceptable loss rate meant it was too unwieldy for the sorts of things I wanted to use it for.
astral hornet
Yeah, it's clunky. The post I linked puts 6 in a line, you can get away with less, but it just means a couple more items will "slip through"
reef turtle
Yeah, it's just directly "what tax do you want to pay?"
You could do it with a single splitter if you were willing to lose a third of your items.
astral hornet
heh
glacial hemlock
No. There exist a solution where no leftover and no sink is required. For plastic and rubber only
astral hornet
Ah, interesting, will look into it
pseudo lance
@fierce ruin Me too. xD
glacial hemlock
Why in reversed mode?
fierce ruin
april fools
glacial hemlock
Lol
pseudo lance
I was like, "Did the CSS get fouled up? Maybe I need to do a refresh"
wind spade
"just wait a say or so and then refresh, probably a cache issue"
pseudo lance
Then I thought maybe my video display settings got messed up (because it's possible to rotate your display in your video settings) lol
Then I saw the "Disable April mode" button and promptly facepalmed.
wind spade
I was considering calling it Australian mode
pseudo lance
haha
pseudo lance
Good call.
lean horizon
If you have a miner or anything that's outputting above a single belt's speed, if you split it really close to the miner, will it maintain the higher output speed split into 2 or will the short bit of belt bottleneck the output?
boreal cypress
second
wind spade
it's still capped by the short belt speed
lean horizon
Is there a use to Mk.3 miner's immense output speed when on pure nodes?
lean horizon
I mean yes, i meant it can do even higher, is there a way to use that at all?
wind spade
no. Do you need it?
boreal cypress
@wind spade do you look at every second in this channel or how can you answer this fast? xD
780 is the maximum without mods
boreal cypress
i thought u dont tell your secrets
wind spade
but that's not a secret that I'm a bot
lean horizon
I mean not necessarily but i was wondering if there was an in-game use of the fact that thing can output like 1024 a minute
wind spade
I'm just secretly a bot
boreal cypress
nope, just 780
lean horizon
REEE
boreal cypress
like the nuclear power plant, its useless to overlock them. on 100% they need 300mยณ/min and pipes can only transport 300mยณ/min
pseudo lance
The wiki lists a MK6 belt. It's not in the game though. https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Conveyor_Belt
lean horizon
I guess i'll just DIE
boreal cypress
why?
lean horizon
IDK, i wanna be able to fully use everything
like if i wanna overclock my pure mk.3 to god knows what, i wanna throw that somewhere
idle vigil
there's always going to be a limit, and mk6 belts will be in tier 8 presumably
shrewd yacht
I'm trying to figure out a good way to deal with aluminum scrap to ingots with no alt recipes
the 360 out to 240 in is kind of anoying
is there any simple ratio I can work with on this?
spice holly
2 : 3?
shrewd yacht
belt limitations...
wind spade
underclock to 67% and do 1:1
spice holly
why bother
wind spade
then it would be 2 to 1
spice holly
just turns 1 scrap refineries on then
and do 2 foundries
then after you get your sheet, you upgrade the belt
and then you turn on your other refinery
shrewd yacht
I could use two foundries per refinery and set the foundries to 75%
that would split the 360 in two perfectly and give 60/min from each foundry
spice holly
you could, i would personally not bother with it and just let the 2nd foundries starve temporarily.
then upgrade the belt with the first batch of alu sheet coming out.
although now that i think about it, you can still do it with mk4 belt.
split the output of the scrap refinery with a mk2 belt
shrewd yacht
a mess of splits i guess
spice holly
then you get 120x2 from each refinery and put it to the 3rd foundry
it's not like you have to merge the 360 from both refineries
shrewd yacht
still going to 4.5
less messy to just do a split to foundries at 75%
no need to merge back in and set one at 50%
spice holly
i don't see how it's messy, but up to you.
shrewd yacht
also trying to route the silly byproducts to not clog things up
I hate splitting and merging
manifold is my thing as much as possible
fierce scaffold
hey if you need min 2 water extractors to power 4 coal gens and they each put out 120 if you overclock one extractor to 300 then would that power 4 gens?
spice holly
you only need 1.5 for 4 gens actually
upper thunder
better? Sry i didnt saw that
oblique hollow
yep, thats acceptable
though just saying "machine" and the oc percent wont work
there are alt recipes too
next time, add the name of the recipe used
oblique hollow
thats ok, but without telling theres no way of knowing. i could analyze the numbers and figure out the recipe from there but thats too much work
pseudo lance
@shrewd yacht Check out my Aluminum Sheet factory design: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/ffmcvj/alclad_aluminum_sheet_factory_floor_plan/
Uses 2 Foundries running at 75%
oblique hollow
oh wow, now i didnt expect to run into the Floor Plan Master around here
oblique hollow
now that i have the chance: great work!
pseudo lance
Thanks!
vast copper
Slowly getting to bringing 19200 water upstairs ๐ฎ
oblique hollow
jace-us christ
vast copper
yeah man
oblique hollow
what do you need 19200 mยณ/min of water for
vast copper
figuring out the pattern took a day
oblique hollow
Nuclear?
vast copper
60 turbomotor/min + turbofuel + nuke rod prod
with all the good alts
not counting water for nuke running
oblique hollow
thats a big undertaking and i congratulate you for putting up with that challenge
vast copper
yeah at this scale everything becomes complicated ^^
but moving forward little by little
oblique hollow
the fountain of Turbo
shrewd yacht
did you consider future 600 piping @vast copper ?
I bet they add some kind of mk2 pipes at some point
oblique hollow
whats that, a mod?
shrewd yacht
just a guess
shrewd yacht
the current pipes are 300
spice holly
better not to assume
shrewd yacht
I bet they add like mk2 extractors for water and oil and so on
spice holly
we don't even know if the mk2 pipe is going to be 600
they could just fuck us and decide that 480 is a good number for mk2 pipe
shrewd yacht
if they do like 450 or som silly number I'm done! ๐
oblique hollow
it could be 360 lmao
spice holly
exactly lmao
vast copper
if there's pipe mk 2 then it's update 4, so it means restart I guess
spice holly
360, yay it can now support 3 water extractor at 100%
vast copper
the pump clipping is the only clipping I get ๐ฆ
I'll show you the rest of the pipe work later
it's gigantic, getting all the water from the eastern ocean
shrewd yacht
widen the spine by like 2-3 foundations in each direction and you might have enough space for no clipping ๐
oblique hollow
but saving space is good for keeping an overview
wait a minute, how long is your pipeline
vast copper
it's 5x5, all sides are covered with elevators for material as well, it's a kind of super spine, wouldn't make it wider, I need the floor space, let me show you
oblique hollow
dont tell me its like 30 km
vast copper
alright let me show you 2 things : the pipes, and the floors ^^
Floor space
This flor produced FUEL with the diluted Alt
oblique hollow
what does one person need this much RAW UNLIMITED POWER for
vast copper
The aquaduc ^^
well I think I have a 1500 Ref to build for my roadmap
that's a lot of MW ^^
oblique hollow
ever thought about using liquid trains?
spice holly
all this water is just for diluted fuel for power?
vast copper
getting 160 wattrer extractors placed manually and perfectly alligned is my greatest achievement this year I guess :p
no lol
it's for everything except running nukes
spice holly
i'm probably going to fall asleep placing the pipes long before i reached that first corner
oblique hollow
its for turbofuel
vast copper
pure copper, pure caterium etc
spice holly
lmao
do you like really need pure copper though, how many copper nodes are you planning to use?
shrewd yacht
hmm... noticed the wiki still don't have the values for the elevator components in the Awesome Sink...
oblique hollow
the wiki is outdated in general, still needs a lot of updates on the new stuff
especially liquid and sink stuff
shrewd yacht
all other items are in the table I think
spice holly
the values are not up-to-date iirc
vast copper
vast copper
I need 11K copper ingots per min bro
shrewd yacht
hope you got a supercomputer
oblique hollow
id honestly drop pipes at that point and try trains tbh
vast copper
you mean my PC ?
shrewd yacht
mine can't handle these big builds
vast copper
PC is ok for now ^^ it's a thik boi pc
spice holly
yeah so you don't even need pure copper lol
vast copper
19200/min would require so many wagons ...
spice holly
if you use the other alternate recipe, you can still get 2x the ingots
vast copper
and it's too close for trains to be worth it
I use pure copper ingots (the one with water)
spice holly
so if you use pure copper, you're going to need 5.36 pure copper
but if you use the copper alloy, you'll need 6.7 pure copper
vast copper
the L shaped highway is 2km
spice holly
you'll need 3.35 pure iron too, but you don't need to deal with water, you need less space and power as well.
vast copper
everything in the desert is piped or belted, outside the desert will be trains
I wanna build a super wall and pretend the desert is our territory / mega fortress, and the more lush biomes are super hostiles
you'll need 3.35 pure iron too, but you don't need to deal with water, you need less space and power as well.
@spice holly dealing with the madness is part of the game for me
I finished it before and I after nuke you're basicaly done, I don't want to reach that stage too fast
this playthrough I go full madlad with the Refs and Alts ^^
boreal cypress
have fun with bauxite ... its the most madness :D
shrewd yacht
I got alu sheets done today