the equation you are talking about is mostly just for hydrostatics
#math-and-meta
oblique hollow
scarlet marsh
i mean you always measure the actual pressure - not just the gravitational part
oblique hollow
but fails at fluid dynamics
scarlet marsh
no it doesnt fail lol
scarlet marsh
it is enough for what is for
oblique hollow
yes for this game its mostly enough
scarlet marsh
no i mean for real life
oblique hollow
though like i always say, dont apply hydrostatics in this game. Dylan said so himself 😆
scarlet marsh
that is exactly how to calculate the gravitational force
even for moving liquid
i mean you can apply hydrostatics
in this game
oblique hollow
it just doesnt get you anywhere since the pipeline pumps dont output headlift numbers correctly
scarlet marsh
they dont?
oblique hollow
nope
look at my images all the way up
fluid buffers and pumps is one of those cases
where it breaks
and just shows 22 m, no matter whats in the buffer
oblique hollow
tested it. head lift jumps up and down (even though the buffer is just filling) and then reaches 22 m, but the buffer isnt even full
no matter if the pipe is vertical or horizontal
scarlet marsh
is the flowrate as expected?
oblique hollow
constant until the bufffer reaches 90% fill level, then it slows down. as expected
scarlet marsh
ok, so what you are saying is the pump is working as intended but the display is inaccurate?
oblique hollow
yes... i think at least
i dont know if the buffer outputs wrong numbers or if the display has issues though
scarlet marsh
yeah i never really look at the pump display for any reason - ive usually just spaced them out for the height difference req'd and verified flow rate
have not really had any issues doing that on flowrate
oblique hollow
the head lift display is just quite.... useless right now. flow rate is a good enough indicator if things work
scarlet marsh
yeah i agree - thats why i havent used it - just space out enough pumps and should be fine
spice holly
when you're pumping fluid into the buffer, the headlift is based on how full the tank is and which tank you're using.
not the height at which the input buffer is located
hollow lance
just to chip in, in my industry we measure pressure mostly with strain gages, on a thin membrane
spice holly
and if you don't have enough pressure to fill the tank completely, then the water will flow back and forth within the pipe and the buffer until it stabilize completely. Your headlift going up and down kinda shows this.
oblique hollow
@spice holly i know that and i expected that. But explain this: the pipe is flat and the buffer empty. the buffer (small, 300m³) fills to 40 m³ and the head lift is suddenly at 22m
also, there is only one pipe connected
like in the pictures above
spice holly
this one?
oblique hollow
yep
spice holly
powered pump or unpowered
oblique hollow
powered
spice holly
clearly something is wrong with your setup, cos mine works just fine.
oblique hollow
i can only do so much wrong with a single pipe, buffer and pump
and im not the only one with this issue
also what game version you on? EA? EX?
spice holly
oblique hollow
exactly that was my setup
oblique hollow
they pushed a patch no ex recently though
spice holly
full buffer, as expected.
spice holly
they pushed a patch no ex recently though
yes, and they pushed that patch to EA as well.
so buffer - pipe - buffer?
oblique hollow
yep
fill one buffer, disconnect the extractor or refinery, then hook up the full buffer to the empty one
and place a pump or 2
oblique hollow
yep, just before the empty one
spice holly
powered yea?
oblique hollow
yep
oblique hollow
in my setup i used HOR. first the head lift jumped up and down and then reached max
thats why i dont trust them (head lift gauges) right now. inconsistent behaviour across users
also in my case the buffers didnt generate pressure until like 60m³ were inside
so (8 m / 300m³) * 60m³ lead me to 1,6 m height
the height of the ports
uncut pine
is there any good calculator with update 3, there show me excatly what i must build?
(buildings, which MK Mine, normal, pure etc)
spice holly
uncut pine
so, who i can change on this site the Mine? the Node?
hollow lance
try this one https://daniel2013.github.io/satisfactory/calculator
vast copper
I4m going nuts over planning here, I don't know how much I should empty the oceans ...
Daniel2013 is nice, but super buggy I find with Alts
hollow lance
i havent played with it with alts
vast copper
for ex, I wanna plan for TM prod, and I add 1 by 1 the Alts, and they're not added properly
hollow lance
hes got instructions to the side about them though i think
hollow lance
$10
😄
i havent seen any posts by greeny in a while. not sure if he,s out of commission because of covid
im now attempting to work from home, which generically means more hours to get the same work done since the kids are home
rancid lark
He was in the channel just a few hours ago, he's fine lol
hollow lance
oh i didnt mean out of commission as in sick, i meant not having time to work it. pure speculation though
vast copper
he's working on updating his calc, but it takes time ^^
spice holly
i only use the calc for oil stuff (e.g 300 oil -> 900 rubber). I usually do the rest of the calculation w/o calc lol.
vast copper
what's the best way to share un screenshot her e?
empty hemlock
spice holly
win+shift+s
vast copper
That's why I miss Greeny's
it's a mess and a half ^^
One thing that frustrates me a lot is that for the endgame you have TONS of Irons, and it's pretty much useless, I need several thousands of all other minerals, 16K water, and only 260 iron to make 60 TM/min
I was looking for a project that involves 10k iron, any ideas or suggestion on what to do (still meaningful in terms of coupons) ?
sand garnet
a bunch of supercomputers?
vast copper
you need SC to make TM, so it's just part of the chain (Turbomotors)
sand garnet
then make batteries
fierce ruin
For me, the pumps are just showing wrong values when mounted on angles. For some reason it is still calculating the "length of pipe", not the actual "incline in meters", of said length. (Besides the fact that head is not correctly measured as input vs output opening. I get why, but once full, the "head" should be that distance, period... Not each step along the way. That is only when it is filling. Lines don't get air once they are full. They just flow less.)
Anyways...
Place a vertical pipe and the values are correct for me. At a 10 meter distance between pumps, it shows a 10 meter head, to the next pump.
Place that same line at a 45-deg angle, and it always "exceeds maximum head-lift", no matter what the actual height or distance is, between pipes. (However, that is just the display. It still functions. Then again, so does the whole line without any pumps and an 80-meter head.)
shy mason
Beacons and heavy modular frames (still need coal and concrete as well) for iron sinks ?
Crystal oscillators as well if you still have any quartz
fierce ruin
I am sure iron will be used more in a later tier... One of those "gotcha" things... After you disable all your miners and smelters, or manually set them to offline. 😛
I am sure everything is readily more abundant than needed. Just for "fun". As the world fills-up and the game becomes bogged-down, I am willing to bet that there will be a lot less need for production machine, quantity, and more being about machine specialty setups. As well as more restricted ore production. (Or some of these iron ores being changed into other metals or resources.)
Could use a few more coal mines and less limestone and iron
vast copper
+1 on coal
sand garnet
theres plenty of coal around though
vast copper
There's plenty of everything, it's just that there's too much iron compared to coal ^^
sand garnet
thats because you need iron for other stuff too 😛
cedar mica
Should I base my plastic and rubber on Polymer Resin or the regular recipe?
fierce ruin
The use of polymer is better because you can regulate what you need, instead of depending on consumption of a specific item.
You may need more rubber, or plastic, depending on your needs, in a moment. It's a pain to reconfigure 10 machines to start outputting rubber, when they are already making plastic, and you don't have power/fuel, until you change the demand.
If it is all polymer, you take what you need, to make what you need, and store the rest or dump it into the ticket-machine, to sustain power.
Unless you aren't using the sludge for fuel...
cedar mica
Yeah, I'm currently making diluted fuel. So I guess I can get polymer using the same machines. Only issue with that, is that I would tie my plastic and rubber production, to the usage of powere
fierce ruin
You can process oil into fuel, directly... The only reason to make it into a polymer or plastic or rubber, is if you need it.
You can't turn gas into rubber or plastic
cedar mica
I'm making 81 tubro fuel, from 36.3 cruid oil atm. Which gives me 24 something polymer as by product
fierce ruin
Though, there are alternative formulas out there.. you can eliminate oil from both... or the need for oil, at all...
Process it or ticket-dump it...
You only need things until there is nothing left to produce... then you need nothing and everything is just waste.
Remember, there is no real "end game" yet.
sand garnet
you cannot get rid of oil stuff for plastic
fierce ruin
The machine takes plastic and rubber
resin->plastic
resin->rubber
alt recipies you can use plastic and rubber to make reinforced steel plates, instead of screws.
or rubber to make cables
etc...
sand garnet
yeah but you need oil for everything
oil is the starter for everything plastic and rubber related
fierce ruin
Until you get alt formulas for bio-fuels and bio-stuff to plastic and rubber.
sand garnet
which are garbage recipes lmao
fierce ruin
Oil isn't his problem... it's the byproduct he is worried about, after making turbo-fuel.
But, I agree... doesn't seem like much of a worry.
You need it. 🙂 Just better to have it be universal than dedicating set machines to produce specific outputs that may not be consumed, and slow-down fuel production.
I did that with coal... It was impossible to manage with fluxuating power
Whatever that cheap coal stuff was, that oil produced.
Should have just made normal coal, half as fast.
We really need overflow gate options.
dry mason
Wire and iron wire
Wire is 2 every 4 seconds
Iron wire is 9 every 24 seconds
So in one minute wire can make 30
60/4 * 2 = 30
And in one minute iron wire can make 22.5
60/24 * 9 = 22.5 every minute right?
finite reef
Can someone give me the math for how many pipes I need to balance out 2 normal oil nodes and 2 pures?
dusk widget
I have 10 Smelters producing Iron Ingots, whats the best split early game for Iron Rods, Plates and Screws?
scarlet marsh
well if you dont want to think about it just design each product to consume the output of your smelters - so production matches demand
vast copper
@finite reef you can cap each norm and pure oil node to 300 oil/min with power shards, which is 1 full pipe. No waste !
crude girder
@vast copper get ShareX
fierce ruin
do you guys prefer to build generator setups as if every unit is expected to reach full load?
spice holly
yes
glacial hemlock
@dusk widget at t3 and before, you shld have 2 constructors for plate, 2 for rods, 1 for screws
1.5 assemblers for rotor and rip each, and another 0.5 each to be merged to smart plating. You will need at least 4 running mk1 iron belts or preferably 6
The rip assembler shld have their own plates and screws line. Early game prior to t4 it is a bad idea to implement shared bus or even manifold
wooden shore
yes,this is simetrical,yes it dosnt clip,yes,this is only the left side,yes i do have ocd,yes
spice holly
bruh this is 2020, don't screenshot using your phone.
cobalt grail
can someone help me with splitting?
sharp crow
@wooden shore
there is an in-game screenshot key. i don't know what it is by default, but you can check your settings. when you take the screenshot it tells you where it saved it
@cobalt grail
the trick is to just give up and make a manifold, unless you're spkitting stuff into a storage container or item sink
cobalt grail
whats a manifold lol?
wooden shore
reason for the phone screenshot is because as long my game is running i cannot minimise it so i cannot use discord while runing the game,so i use my phone
sharp crow
a manifold looks like this
→ S → S → S → S → S →
| | | | | |
i have to use storages?
sharp crow
the first machine will get a higher portion of the items, but only until it fills up, then the next machine down will get a higher portion, etc
cobalt grail
i have 4 pure iron miners lol'
im just trying to figure out how i should split them lol
sharp crow
if you're spliting stuff straight into storages or item sinks, it's more complicated. what exactly are you doing?
cobalt grail
iron ingots
sharp crow
are you sending them to constructors?
wooden shore
6 input line manifold
cobalt grail
yea well first into a train then the train takes it into the main factory
sharp crow
ok so
you can basically pretend that the iron will automatically flow evenly
because all machines have a maximum throughput, if your iron ingot input is equal to the total iron ingot throughput of the machines, then as long as they all get a little bit of iron ingots they will eventually all get the right amount
but make sure you never try to pack a single belt with too many items per minute for it's speed
calm condor
only if the raw material input meets the demand
sharp crow
4 pure iron nodes with what miner at what clock speed?
cobalt grail
mk1 no clock speed yet
sharp crow
ok then
calm condor
check pins in this channels for calculators that can answer that (faster in the future instead of waiting for someone to answer)
sharp crow
ok so each miner produces 120 iron, and a smelter smelts 30 iron so each miner needs four smelters
wooden shore
4 pure is 480pm so split up that on 4 belt inputs and 4 smelters on one belt and ull have max output
sharp crow
but rememer that a mark 2 belt can only carry 120 iron so you need four belts as input
i'm assuming you have the trains mod where you get trains from the start?
cobalt grail
yep
cobalt grail
Esper would u mind joining my world lol ?
sharp crow
sorry it's almost 3am here i gotta go to sleep soon
the loading would be 2 platforms with 4 mark 2 belts going in (one from each miner)
the train would have 2 freight cars and probably only one locomitive
and the unloading would be another two platforms with four mark 2 belts going out
cobalt grail
ok
wooden shore
if u wanna learn more about manifolds,buffered manifolds,load balancers and etc,i can help u
sharp crow
each mark 2 belt would go to four smelters for a total of sixteen smelters
cobalt grail
ok
calm condor
so question
slowitdown mod, will that allow to control the flow of each output of a splitter?
for example a splitter being fed 120 material, can I tell it to give 90 to one output and 30 to the other?
sharp crow
@cobalt grail
you can use an arrangement like this to split each belt to the smelters. and collect the ingots. the vertical bars are smelters, the S is for splitter, and the M is for merger. it will take a minute or two before it's running at full efficiency, but with small manifolds like this it doesn't take very long.
→ S → S → S →
| | | |
→ M → M → M →
so 1 line with 4 splitters? going into 4 mergers back into 1 line?
sharp crow
one line with three splitters
cobalt grail
oops my bad
sharp crow
the last one is not needed because it would split one input into one output, a curved conveyor works better
same wth the first merger
it's unnecessary
cobalt grail
ok
it sorta makes sense
so i could re split the ingots back up if i wanted too right?
back into 4 lanes?
theyd be mk1 tho
sharp crow
yeah but if you split it into 4 lanes then each lane would only get 30 ingots/min
cobalt grail
yea
sharp crow
so the mk1 belts would be half full
cobalt grail
ah
wind spade
@sharp crow I like to add first and last splitter/merger just for future expansion
sharp crow
i don't usually do much expansion
i just build a bunch of small seperte factories, and keeo them until i replace them
cobalt grail
Could i do
sharp crow
but yeah, if you're leaving room on the end you could do it
sharp crow
oh?
sharp crow
but you would need a faster belt to get the ore out of the miner so quickly
cobalt grail
true
sharp crow
the miner wouldbe producing 240 ore/min and your belts can only carry 120 items/min
cobalt grail
ah ok
sharp crow
you'll have to wait til you get mk3 belts
cobalt grail
im just trying to get ingots so i can get Rotars Reinforced plates and modular frames produced
how many iron lines would be reccomended?
sharp crow
fair enough
it depends how many of those items you want
and whether you have any alternate recipes
cobalt grail
i have alt screw
sharp crow
thank god
sharp crow
honestly, you don't need very many unless you plan on using them to get coupons
i started out with only like 4 rotors/min
and 5 reinforced/min
cobalt grail
oh lol
sharp crow
but eventually i had to scale up my rotor production for motors
sharp crow
rotors cost a lot of iron
cobalt grail
tru
sharp crow
if you just want enough to build stuff and unlock milestones, i recommend whatever it takes to supply one or two assemblers @ 100% clock speed
the amount of iron that costs depends on what alts you're using, but yeah the casted screw alt is really good both for simplifying production and making it more efficient
cobalt grail
ye
sharp crow
aw heck i gotta go to sleep now lol
cobalt grail
nooo
sharp crow
bye and gn
cobalt grail
gn
uncut pine
is solid steelbar a good alternate recipe?
sand garnet
solid steel ingot is great
uncut pine
so, i have an pure iron and 2 normal coal mines, how can the best setup for this?
so im now in my head, i can make with this 900 steel ingots, is this right?
cedar mica
Depends on recipe
780 (max from pure node) /40 (solid steel ingot) = 19.5 foundrys x60 = 1170/m steel
Default recipe, you get the same amount as you put iron and coal in
vast copper
combined with Pure Iron alt it's basically costing only coal
glacial hemlock
if you have sulfur, then good for you, you can get more steel ingots.
shy mason
Same concrete wise, pipes use less steel in general but you'd need more assemblers and power for same throughput speed
dry mason
The steal beam version is 6 a minute. and the steel pipe version is 4 a minute.
smoky patio
Takes more steel tho...
cedar mica
30 Cruid Oil into 33.3 Turbo Fuel, 30 Rubber and 20 Plastic. Heavy Oil Residue + Diluted Fuel + Recycled Plastic and Rubber. Is that about right?
glacial hemlock
If you see diluted fuel in your setup, you are doing it right.
clear citrus
compacted steel vs solid steel?
shy mason
You'll need sulfur for uranium cells, in the meantime feel free to use sulfur for steel and turbofuel
toxic flax
Anyone got a calculator that lets me not only input items/min, but also let me use (i.e. diminish) existing output intermediates as inputs for a next step?
I was using https://daniel2013.github.io/satisfactory/calculator but like if I have a certain number of rods being output and I want to use some of the excess for modular frames, I can't. I have to manually reduce the rod outputs it seems.
Should I just use multiple tabs and keep track of how much I have?
scarlet marsh
just put in how many rods you want and how many frames you want
or you can limit the amount to match your input
torpid hatch
This took me by surprise xD
north plaza
how? lol
glacial hemlock
Hogging a power pole
torpid hatch
@north plaza go to any power source and spam click the display which shows the graph about consumption, production and capacity
i am used to clicking passively to keep apm high, that is how i found this xD
clear citrus
My and mine are about to be producing arbitrary amount of stators.
I'm thinking of splitting them 50/50 towards motors and the space elevator wiring.
Should I, or should I merge two of the splitter outputs making it 2/3 to motors and 1/3 to wiring?
sand garnet
Lol apm in satisfactory
glacial hemlock
Satisfactory coal power speed run: 18 mins (joking lol)
pine tangle
Yep. "Launch first Space Elevator package". Sadly, no runs for Up. 3 yet.
sand garnet
of course not, because now they have to actually automate stuff :p
no longer is it just handcrafting everything and using a bunch of portable miners
left flame
I have a feeling a speedrun would simply be handcrafted
oblique hollow
you cant handcraft as fast anymore and you cant craft space elevator parts
sand garnet
handcrafting got a solid nerf, well deserved
violet stirrup
It was a fair, well deserved nerf, but oh so unfortunate. Using a clicker to insta craft mass amounts of things was always hilarious.
sand garnet
yeah but in a game about automation, having handcrafting be the best option is a bad idea
violet stirrup
You are not wrong.
scarlet marsh
probably still is the best option
violet stirrup
100% not, takes way too long to create things bulk now, and can't handcraft certain items.
scarlet marsh
handcraft still far more efficient than any machine
except for items that cant be made
sand garnet
good luck making turbomotors from scratch at a decent rate by hand
scarlet marsh
well you can definately beat the manufacturer at like 1-2/min
sand garnet
you need to keep in mind that you also need to craft all the sub parts
scarlet marsh
yeah, but no machine matches the eff of handcrafting
you need many machines to be equivalent
sand garnet
but when combined, they improve the process beyond handcrafting
scarlet marsh
which is surprising
sand garnet
if you automate every step its still better
scarlet marsh
that machine designed specifically to smelt an ore is so much slower than smelting by hand
thats true for handcrafting tho too
they should nerf handcraft more
at least to the point it is half the rate of a machine
sand garnet
that would grind early game to a halt
oblique hollow
please no
scarlet marsh
i dont think handcraft is really needed early game
oblique hollow
it already is tedious, i cant even handcraft alts
sand garnet
you have no machines early on, so how are you going to do anything without handcrafting
currently early game feels just enough of a grind to encourage automation
scarlet marsh
you can start with a smelter and constructor
sand garnet
slowing it down even more just makes it annoying
scarlet marsh
from there you can multiply
sand garnet
you can, but that's skipping the onboarding process
its not the standard starting experience
scarlet marsh
yeah but i mean the starting experience sucks - how fun is handcrafting
1 smelter/1 constructor is enough to start
thats like 5 wire/plate/rods
oblique hollow
if handcrafting was even slower i wouldnt even bother trying to craft ingots
id just not play
scarlet marsh
they should just make handcraft not needed
oblique hollow
there literally is no need to nerf it
scarlet marsh
the need is for game design
oblique hollow
and hand crafting equipment is ok
woeful skiff
They could add a small smelter and small constructor to the hub ... and then add hand crank for tier 0 🙂
scarlet marsh
they realize the problem and addressed it
they just need to go further
yeah you dont need to handcraft the hub
to me it makes sense for you to land on the planet with basic tools like 1 smelter/1constructor/1 hub
or you could get the resources to build them from doing the tutorial hub milestones
oblique hollow
you do land with the hub
scarlet marsh
if they want to include the tutorial
yeah you dont handcraft the hub
handcraft is not a fun part of the game
oblique hollow
thats why nobody does it, only when necessary
scarlet marsh
and it honestly doesnt make much sense that you can smelt on a bench
or make a plate rod or wire
from an ingot
oblique hollow
did you see the tools on the bench
sand garnet
it's a game, you have floating factories, gravity only affects some stuff but not others, you're on an alien planet, etc etc. but your issue is with 'smelting on a workbench is unrealistic' lol
scarlet marsh
not really
my issue is more with the game design - handcrafting is not a enjoyable element of the game and does not add value to the customer
sand garnet
exactly
that's what it's supposed to feel like.
because you're meant to want to automate stuff
oblique hollow
thats negative reinnforcement
scarlet marsh
yeah but its still overpowered
oblique hollow
hand crafting sucks so: dont do it
it isnt lol
1000 constructors is overpowered
scarlet marsh
why is handcrafting so much more efficient than a machine specifically designed to do conduct that operation
sand garnet
it being just a bit overpowered but just grindy enough to not want to do it for the entire game is exactly how it should feel like
scarlet marsh
should the automation be more efficient?
oblique hollow
what do you mean, efficient
sand garnet
because otherwise early game would be too slow
scarlet marsh
speed
oblique hollow
there are a lot of types of efficiency
scarlet marsh
x item/min
sand garnet
if handcrafting takes longer, then people will give up during the early game experience where handcrafting is still a ting
oblique hollow
time, power, space
scarlet marsh
time
oblique hollow
it is strong but you waste literal gameplay
its booooring
nobody likes it
and 10 manufacturers are better than you
sand garnet
anything is better than me 😦
scarlet marsh
yeah handcraft should not be needed
sand garnet
it should be needed to feel progression
scarlet marsh
1 smelter/1 constructor would address that
oblique hollow
it is okay for a quick need of a single item
sand garnet
to feel like you're growing as a player and experiencing a levelup through the tech tree
and yeah its great if you quickly need a few items
oblique hollow
since a single constructor and smelter can not get you a damn computer
oblique hollow
bruh what
violet stirrup
Nelson is literally the physical embodiment of r/unpopularopinion.
scarlet marsh
smelter - constructor - assembler - refinery - manufacturer
oblique hollow
if we couldnt handcraft i wouldnt want to do anything anymore
scarlet marsh
the smelter and constructor build into the other ones
sand garnet
you cannot handcraft oil stuff so that's already a hard limit in the game
scarlet marsh
how do you know that, clslinger?
oblique hollow
You cant craft elevator parts, you cant craft alts, you cant use liquids, you cant do anything
scarlet marsh
the devs already nerfed handcraft, so i doubt the idea is that unpopular
ok i understand, you like the handcrafting element
oblique hollow
i wouldnt like to have to rely on a smelter and constructor on tier 0 - 1
violet stirrup
Better question, how do you not realize you are the physical embodiment of r/unpopularopinion?
oblique hollow
also, without handcrafting, you cant do equipment
violet stirrup
Hand crafting is pretty great exactly where its at.
oblique hollow
and without that im literally dead
sand garnet
handcrafting as an emergency solution is what it should be
and that's what it is right now
scarlet marsh
clslinger, you dont understand your own statement?
oblique hollow
and will be
sand garnet
it's a way of making things because you have no other real options but is too grindy to feel like actual intended gameplay when you have automated options available
violet stirrup
Time delimiter instead of click delimiter also allows for exact control of the #1 issue with making items: time.
I understand my statement thoroughly, its 100% accurate depiction of you.
scarlet marsh
if you understand it, then you have the knowledge on how you know that, no?
violet stirrup
Because of your behavior, I assumed that would be obvious?
scarlet marsh
is that a valid assumption?
sand garnet
no need for personal attacks guys
scarlet marsh
and what behavior?
sand garnet
criticize ideas, not the people
violet stirrup
Your are correct, back to the topic at hand.
scarlet marsh
tom, remain calm - the behavior was criticized, not the person
oblique hollow
this is math-and-meta, not interpersonal-issues
sand garnet
I am calm, just expressing the need for everyone to be lol
scarlet marsh
i am here to understand the rationale of your statement, when you care to explain
violet stirrup
As per the OC conversation, you are once again wrong, and as per the OC conversation outcome, no amount of logic will change your opinion, even when confronted with facts.
scarlet marsh
wrong about what, specifically?
oblique hollow
hand crafting is sorta fast, but at what cost are you willing to exploit that? @scarlet marsh
scarlet marsh
please share with the group, the logic you have to substantiate your claim
@oblique hollow im just personally not a fan of handcraft mechanic - and dont think it needs to be req'd - that is the idea i proposed
@violet stirrup Seems like your statement is a bit light on any facts, no?
oblique hollow
its okay for emergency material needs, thats it
violet stirrup
The facts are obvious, as well as the waste of time communicating with you.
Hence, the stop.
woeful skiff
Also this isn't a great place to discuss who does or doesn't embody any particular subreddit anyway.
scarlet marsh
the facts are obvious, but they are completely unknown and you cannot state what they are
violet stirrup
Moved over to help some1 that needs and accepts ifnromation.
scarlet marsh
how does that make any sense, clslinger?
oblique hollow
please lets just drop this dry as heck topic
scarlet marsh
seems a bit light on logic to me
scarlet marsh
well, when someone makes a false claim - it is important to address that immediately
but it is clear that there is no substantiating evidence - so we can move forward
just want to be clear that is known
it is an interesting behavior - to make false claims, then when questioned on the facts - want to drop the claim made - just an observation that i have made
shadow prairieBOT
You can send Questions, Feedback, Suggestions, and Bug Reports at https://questions.satisfactorygame.com @scarlet marsh feel free to suggest a change here
<3 @sand garnet
sand garnet
Nelson, step off your high horse
scarlet marsh
what does that mean?
sand garnet
I'm sure you can google it
scarlet marsh
i know the expression, but what do you mean in this context?
sand garnet
that you think your opinion is fact, that you think other people have no substantial evidence for their claims but apparantly you do when all of this is pretty much opinion-based
oblique hollow
it was all just opinions, in the end
sand garnet
you think your method of reasoning is better than theirs, that your arguments hold any actual value, more than theirs, which is simply untrue
scarlet marsh
which opinion are you referring to? i don't think any of my opinions are facts - not sure where you got this idea
oblique hollow
then what "fact" did you miss from clslinger
sand garnet
you seem to assume that devs think handcrafting is bad
which they dont
you seem to think that handcrafting has no purpose in this game, which it does
scarlet marsh
"As per the OC conversation, you are once again wrong, and as per the OC conversation outcome, no amount of logic will change your opinion, even when confronted with facts."
Clslinger, did not state clearly what i am 'wrong' about
sand garnet
that's exactly my point
scarlet marsh
that is the fact missing
sand garnet
you WERE presented with facts, you just choose to ignore them
sand garnet
handcrafting doing stuff that automation cannot, is a fact
violet stirrup
The OCing conversation you were literally given mathematical factual evidence, and refused it.
scarlet marsh
what can handcraft do that automation can't?
oblique hollow
be an emergency solution without power
sand garnet
build items from scratch without existing structures, for one.
let's take the following scenario:
oblique hollow
if im exploring and i need a certain item, i wont build a god damn factory for one item
scarlet marsh
what specifically did i refuse? was there a mathematical equation provided explaining the mathematical substantiation?
im not sure i have 'refused' anything there
sand garnet
you're out exploring, find a cool new spot and you're like "yes, this seems amazing, I want to set up a factory here!"
buttt you realize you dont have any building materials, how do you solve this without handcrafting?
sand garnet
now imagine ( this is reality) that early game is exactly like that
how do you build stuff, without existing stuff to build with?
scarlet marsh
im well aware that handcraft is req'd in the current game configuration
sand garnet
right
oblique hollow
your "solution" of a hub-integrated smelter and constructor also wont do
sand garnet
handcrafting is a valuable aspect for specific gameplay elements, and it's a great teaching tool to, at the same time, push the player towards the intended gameplay, being automation
scarlet marsh
@violet stirrup when you have this mathematical factual evidence to share, i would like to review it
violet stirrup
We've went through this before, clearly didn't matter last time, not going to revisit it.
Enjoy your day!
sand garnet
not having handcrafting early on is easy, but it also makes it feel less like a growth experience where you slowly level up
scarlet marsh
CLsinger, you have not shared the evidence with me - do not make the false claim that i have refused it
scarlet marsh
i reviewed the links and concurred with the information presented in them, no?
violet stirrup
In the much needed change of subject. With the 3 extractors to 6 coal factories. 1 extractor will only being pushing out 60 M^3, I assume I can't actually use remaining 60 M^3 of unused water protentional by using a T pipe right? Because then I will merge two different pipe systems?
scarlet marsh
yeah Tom, i understand what your saying on the growth potential - i think might be a better way to do it but again that would take time to figure out and implement
oblique hollow
3 to 8 is better
violet stirrup
Basically, I am stuck with the under utilization of the 3rd one right?
oblique hollow
if the ex is at 120
sand garnet
what would that 'better way' be then Nelson
scarlet marsh
@violet stirrup please refrain from making false claims about me - and then change subject when questioned
sand garnet
because it seems like you only say 'this should change' without offering any actual changes
violet stirrup
Nelson, just please refrain from talking in general.
serene abyss
you could use 5 extractors on 12 coal gens, the 5th extractor T-split into the other 4 extractors giving you 300m^3 in each pipe
violet stirrup
Ah.
oblique hollow
3 to 8 is generally the agreed on simplest ratio
scarlet marsh
tom, i would have liked it if they just remove handcrafting overall - give you the starting resources to automate from the beginning - that was my suggestion
oblique hollow
@scarlet marsh do you realize what that means at tier 0
scarlet marsh
if you have 3 extractors - you have 90/m3 remaining to use, clslinger
well i suppose that depends on whether your gens are OC'd
serene abyss
yes, the 3 to 8 would make/use 100% of the resources
violet stirrup
In my current scenario, I do have some loss already. Just trying to figure out what ratio gives me best efficiency. Currently the only thing I have OC'ed is the Extrators.
sand garnet
Regarding the coal gen thing, I'll try to make it as simple as possible:
1 coal gen, 0 powershards = 100% OC, 100% power generation
1 coal gen, 3 powershards = 250% OC, 200% power generation
3 coal gen, 0 powershards = 100% OC, 300% power generation
this means that its always better for both power generation and using/ saving shards for the proper machines, to not waste powershards on OC-ing generators.
scarlet marsh
^ tom is correct, review this clslinger
oblique hollow
nevermind, im tired of the topic.
sand garnet
yeah but you were AGAINST this last time Nelson
scarlet marsh
no i never was
sand garnet
lol yeah you were
scarlet marsh
you didnt understand what i was saying
violet stirrup
You made it abundantly clear.
violet stirrup
Nelson, let me make this clear as possible, You were wrong then, you are wrong now.
oblique hollow
just find the discussion and post a screenshot tom and cl
violet stirrup
Chances are you will be wrong in the near future.
violet stirrup
But I digress, wasting time I could be spending playing the game on you.
scarlet marsh
no need to get emotional, just review the facts
violet stirrup
I am pretty unemotional, just ask my wife.
scarlet marsh
stop randomly making false claims without any substantiating documentation
violet stirrup
So for the water to coal factory setup, I guess I could just find the intersection of the 3 points in order to find 100% efficiency.
scarlet marsh
clsinger, it isnt wise to just randomly claim people are 'wrong' without any supporting rationale
sand garnet
scarlet marsh
thank you Tom
violet stirrup
So, Nelson, were you wrong?
sand garnet
"there is no downside, other than you need to use shards"
which is false, because the second downside is that you dont get the full OC % in power capacity
scarlet marsh
clsinger, why dont you explain to me why you think i am wrong
scarlet marsh
tom, the downside is that it takes 3 power shard to get 200% clock rate instead of 2
violet stirrup
The 3 intersections would be 300 M^3 pipe limit, the 120 M^3 production of water from extractors, and 45 M^3 consumption of the coal factories ya?
oblique hollow
yea
scarlet marsh
i concur with what you say Tom
dark wadi
I want to make sure I understand this argument as you 3 continue. Is the basic argument "It's better to overclock power gen vs It's better to build more power gen"? I just want to make sure I'm following the argument.
sand garnet
im gonna go have lunch and go outside
oblique hollow
120 per extractor * 3 is 360. 360 / 2 is 180, 180 is enough for 4 coal gens each
violet stirrup
Practice good social distancing while you are outside.
scarlet marsh
@dark wadi if you OC a gen you can get 200% clock speed out - fuel efficiency remains the same - you need 3 shards for this
there is no real argument here
correct clsinger you are producing excess water
violet stirrup
Well aware, looking for the exact ration of extractors to factories to get 100% efficiency assuming 100% power consumption.
scarlet marsh
only need 3 extractors to 8 gens - no need to clock the extractor unless you OC the gens
3-8
violet stirrup
Wait though, I have a pipe limit of 300
So gotta work around that.
So getting the excess water split is the problem.
woeful skiff
There is a great table on the Coal Generator wiki page by the way if you want a cheat sheet / have a bad memory like I do.
sand garnet
@violet stirrup I have a hypothesis that using unpowered pumps would block the flow and could actually help with that
ornate zodiac
I use a 4:5 ratio with water extractors to coal plants
oblique hollow
i got one too 
scarlet marsh
sand garnet
since unpowered pumps block the flow going against it, I think it may cause each pipe feeding 4 gens to be treated separately
violet stirrup
I think for now, I am just going to OC the extractor to max, I know its bad, but gotta spend some time with the math to figure out how I conform to the 300 pipe limit and still ensure 100% efficiently between extractors and coal factories.
ornate zodiac
you're overclocking the water extractor?
violet stirrup
I'll mess with it later, just going to keep the extractors with max OC for now, although I am wasting ~40 MH per extractor in this setup.
oblique hollow
why oc them
violet stirrup
The 300 M^3 pipe requirement is the problem
scarlet marsh
you need 2 pipes to carry 360/min
ornate zodiac
overclocking for extractors and transformers is on a curve, so it costs extra power for the same cost
scarlet marsh
clsinger you need 2 pipes
ornate zodiac
given that you're extracting water to generate power, it's counter-productive
violet stirrup
Ah, okay, I am understanding the 3 to 8 ratio now.
scarlet marsh
btw, you can see from the ss, clsinger, that you were incorrect - its okay to think that i am wrong, but make you sure you have rationale to do so - do not spread misinformation about me - thanks
vast copper
First pipe has 240 water, it feeds X coal gen, when the amount of water in the pipe gets bellow 180 you add another 120 via another pipe, and voila you're back at 300 for the next Y gens. Repeat.
oblique hollow
please deal with interpersonal issues in the DMs
ornate zodiac
if you OC one water extractor to 250%, you get 300m3 of water for 173Mw, if you have three water extractors at 100%, you get 360m3 of water for 120Mw
scarlet marsh
i deal with issues, how they are recieved to me - if someone makes a false accusation in the channel, i defend myself in the channel
oblique hollow
i do not wish to be informed on them, and other people maybe too
scarlet marsh
you can tune out then
violet stirrup
Nelson, you keep bringing up a dead horse, you were 100% wrong, and refused to understand that.
oblique hollow
this channel is for satisfactory math, not your issues
scarlet marsh
cleary i was not wrong
violet stirrup
Andddd. Blocked!
scarlet marsh
and you do not even know what i was wrong about lol
violet stirrup
That solves that.
scarlet marsh
indeed - make a false claim - then block - simple
oblique hollow
enough
violet stirrup
So I get the 3 to 8 ratio, gotta do some more math for my specific setup, because I am going up a decent amount. And that requires water pumps, which of course requires power.
scarlet marsh
yeah just build in increment of 3-8
violet stirrup
I assume no1 has the math handy on how far I go up before the OC to 300 M^3 to 6 coal factories is more beneficial then 3 to 8?
ornate zodiac
the most "beneficial" in terms of efficiency will always be 10% underclock
scarlet marsh
3-8 is better
ornate zodiac
but you have to build 10x extractors for that
sand garnet
1% clockrate or bust.
ornate zodiac
can you go to 1%?
sand garnet
yup
violet stirrup
The 2nd pipe doubles my power consumption of pumps, so gotta figure that out. And TBH, placing pumps efficiently sucks.
ornate zodiac
I don't think I want to build 100 water extractors for 120m3 of water 😛
scarlet marsh
yeah dont OC your pump if you concerned about power consumption
sand garnet
100 machines at 1% is more efficient than 1 machine at 100% because OC rate also doesnt scale linearly downwards
scarlet marsh
however you can OC some of your gens to produce more power
since you have excess water in your setup
ornate zodiac
(at the cost of more coal too)
oblique hollow
i only OC to pervent outages while i build new generators
scarlet marsh
well assuming your coal line supports 8 gens, yes
ornate zodiac
won't help if your outage is insufficient coal 😄
oblique hollow
it never is
ornate zodiac
especially if your outage has taken out your coal miners
that's why I loop them seperately
oblique hollow
they are on a seperate grid
ornate zodiac
great minds 😉
oblique hollow
they fuel their own single Gen
scarlet marsh
nothing wrong with OC'ing a coal gen here
ornate zodiac
oh. I have 8 gens in my primary loop...
I have all the water extractors on it as well [shrug]
oblique hollow
its more worth it to put those shards in miners
ornate zodiac
miners is the best use of shards, yes
scarlet marsh
yes it is
ornate zodiac
because ultimately the game is most bottlenecked on resource bandwidth
scarlet marsh
indeed
ornate zodiac
which is less apparent until you run against that limit
to be honest, that limit should only really be reached when you've expanded to the whole map and exhausted most of the nodes. otherwise you get by, by being more efficient with what you have an expanding
dark wadi
^^ that has been my solution. I haven't NEEDed to OC any miner yet, and I'm just about to unlock Nuclear.
But now that I'm at that point I'm looking at OCing some miners just b/c it will be easier as I expand/rework.
sand garnet
there's plenty of nodes around the map for you to not need to OC anything, but it makes it a lot easier if you do
ornate zodiac
but until then, if you've got shards to use and power to spare (hello geothermal) you might as well stick them in
sand garnet
OC on pure nodes makes SO much difference
dark wadi
Means I need to go back and start picking up the slugs. To be honest they were not even a focus unless I was walking by one.
I think my doggos have brought me more slugs then I've picked up.
scarlet marsh
yeah i wish you could construct power shards
through an expensive process - like factorio module
sand garnet
check the modding discord
uncut pine
whats now the best alt for reinforced iron plates?
pine tangle
In my opinion? Bolted Iron Plate - it saves a lot of space, while being slightly more expensive in comparison to default recipe.
Adhered or Stiched if you are really concerned with resource efficiencies.
uncut pine
okay thanks 🙂
glacial hemlock
Stitched + iron wire. But not for early game
scarlet marsh
wonder how much power i can make with a mk 5 belt of compacted coal
violet stirrup
To circle back to the OCing my water extractors, looks like I get a 3% increased efficiency from switching from 1 water extractor OCed at 225% feeding 6 coal generators to 3 water extractors feeding 8 coal generators. Personally, that 3% isn't worth it due to the limited water near me. Math attached for verification if anyone would like (Nothing says my math isn't wrong).
The reason for it only being 3% is due to the vertical distance I have to climb to supply the water to the coal factories. Having to split the pipe would double my pump requirement.
Now, when we get higher throughput pipes, this would change drastically.
violet stirrup
Pump Power, lol
Just did that so I could quickly calculate pump power consumption.
And of course typoed it
plush basin
hello, anyone here to help me with this problem? I have 3 T3 output belts I need to equally split amongst 6 T4 inputs
scarlet marsh
yeah split each one off and merge 2 on all your 6
violet stirrup
Misread the last part, thought you said 4 T4.
scarlet marsh
thats an equal split
thought what you are doing doesnt make any sense
you are feeding 810 into 2880 capacity
violet stirrup
Well technically, feeding 270 into 960, because its 1 T3 to 2 T6.
scarlet marsh
no 3 - 6 is what he said
violet stirrup
My assumption is its the same items, but if they are different, then ya, the math changes.
Unfair assumption though, without additional information.
scarlet marsh
doesnt matter what the items are / belts have the same capacity
violet stirrup
If they are different items, then my 1 T3 to 2 T6 doesn't work.
scarlet marsh
either way dont do what your doing because it doesnt make sense
violet stirrup
If they are the same item, they do
scarlet marsh
belts throughput is independent of item type
violet stirrup
I get that, but if they are the same item, he can simply do 1 T3 to 2 T6, if they are different items, that configuration does not work.
They would remain independent streams that way.
However, if they are different items, then of course, the splitting and merging requires more.
scarlet marsh
yeah but he specifically asked to equally split them
scarlet marsh
yes
violet stirrup
However, that is predicated on the need for it to be the same items, which may or may not be the case.
If they are not the same item, then a 1 T3 to 2 T6 does not work.
scarlet marsh
however, there is no reason to do it because you cant fill those belts
violet stirrup
Agreed, but we are not aware of the entire situation.
scarlet marsh
running multiple items on belt doesnt affect throughput
violet stirrup
Of course
Be curious of the situation that is encountered where this is happening.
Could be a simple, can't be bothered to upgrade my belts situation haha
upbeat granite
Shouldnt the industrial Fluid buffer MK2 have 8 times the capacity of an MK1¿
Just because a cube with a doubled length would have 8 times the volume
sand garnet
its just 2 stacked storage containers
so no
why would it have 8x the capacity?
let's say a regular storage container is 2m wide, 2m tall and 4m long
2x2x4=16
upbeat granite
Fluid
upbeat granite
Yes that is true
But i think from looking at them... Times 8 should be more accurate then 4
sand garnet
aside from the shape etc, I think it's simply a game design decision
cedar mica
Embetterer calculator is drunk again. I selected Nuclear fuel rods, with alts. It suggests I get the silica from the Alumina Solution by production...
Is there another one thats updated?
scarlet marsh
anyone know power provided by turbofuel?
each coal provides 5 MW*min - how much does 1 m3 of turbofuel provide?
hybrid quail
2000MJ according to wiki
scarlet marsh
ok
hybrid quail
normal fuel is 600
scarlet marsh
wow thats a lot compared to coal
so 33.3 MW*min
ok so if i have 1000 turbofuel/m i will have 33.3 MW, wow
33.3 GW
trying to figure out what i can do with a mk 5 belt of compacted coal
not bad
wait thats 222 fuel generators, wtf
lordy
pine tangle
To be pedantic, "lasts longer" IS "more energy from singe item" :3
scarlet marsh
yeah its like 6.5x what coal produces
seems like the fuel gen should have a higher speed
pine tangle
It has. 150 Mw vs 75 of Coal and 30/20 of Biofuel Generators.
hybrid quail
@pine tangle yup 😉
scarlet marsh
i mean higher speed to match the higher capacity
70 some fuels gens off of 1 pipe is nuts
pine tangle
Well, Higher Capacity = Fuel burns faster at full load?
scarlet marsh
i mean the thermal content of the fuel - it should have higher speed relative to that
so it doesnt take like 70 gens to use up 1 pipe lol
pine tangle
1 Coal is around 12,5 kilograms of mass - and Pipes deal with Cubic Meter. 1 cubic meter of water is around 1 metric ton of mass.
scarlet marsh
mass does not matter in this game i dont think
pine tangle
Yep. Because it breaks down once you calculate how much Energy 1 unit of fuel can have, if it is 1 m3.
pine tangle
Even Coal is arbitrary and based on real life coal energy density - average 24 mJ per kilogram.
pine tangle
Yes. This is why 1 unit of Coal makes Coal Generator run only for 4 seconds at full throttle.
scarlet marsh
yeah, my point was they should increase rate to match the increase in energy content of the fuel
so you dont need like ridiculous amount of fuel gens
pine tangle
Generators are hard capped at certain power output, just like in real life. Want more power? Put Power Shards in.
Real life equivalent will be overhaul/modernization.
spice holly
they just need to increase pipe capacity.
scarlet marsh
what pipe capacity is plenty
spice holly
back in update 2, the number of fuel gens isnt much of a problem, since you can go up.
pine tangle
"Better fuel runs longer" is pretty standard, both for real life and in games.
spice holly
now in update 3 you can't really do that w/o sacrificing power efficiency
scarlet marsh
im pretty sure fuel gens used to consume up to 300 MW or something
i thought they were better
yeah the problem is just the time to place them
pine tangle
Fuel Generators were 150, just like now.
scarlet marsh
yeah guess just seemed like more relative to coal
pine tangle
Coal was 50 and got buffed in Up. 3 to 75. Which is a buff even with the need for Water Extractors.
scarlet marsh
yeah i hope they buff fuel gens
pine tangle
Considering my latest save, which had 6.000 Mw on Coal+Coke, maybe there some merit in it, yes.
scarlet marsh
yeah my current save i have 9 MW in coal gen only
spice holly
to be fair, that's always been the case with satisfactory in general, not just with fuel gen.
you pretty much have to spam any machines to get a decent amount of output at the mid-late game, no?
scarlet marsh
true - i wish they had upgraded building or OC that can be produced
yeah
fuel gen just seems especially egregious
spice holly
i kinda get where you're coming from though
i was building like 400 fuel gen back on update 2 just to consume all the turbofuel i was making.
scarlet marsh
yeah i was just doing the math - figuring out what to do with a mk5 belt of compacted coal
and i was like damn ill need 222 fuel gens to eat that
mellow nimbus
Ok math geeks normal oil resource at 120 base rate will run how many refiners reliable using the heavy oil/plastic setting?
fathom zenith
Are you going to overclok the source?
fathom zenith
Then only 4 cause you need 30 per minute
mellow nimbus
so 3 resources should run 12 ok based on 120
fathom zenith
Yea
mellow nimbus
ok thx
fathom zenith
But soo you know you should probably overclok the source if you have alot of power to spare because its worthed comparing with the amount of oil you have on the planet
And then you can run 10 machines per source fully overcloked and you would need one pipe only
300 maximum flow per pipe remenber
mellow nimbus
to late i have 4 pipes one per source oh well lol
fathom zenith
Its fine you will have prepared for the futur 🙂
mellow nimbus
Yeah you also have to keep the pipes at the main refinery as flat as possible or it hoses the whole thing
clear citrus
is the slightly higher ore cost for the same output using the bolted frame alternate worth it for the faster output rate?
glacial hemlock
Bolted frame? Yes it worth
celest rock
Is there a list what alternativ recipe is best to use=?
i want to restart my production in my Savegame to maximise it so i need kinda to know how much plastic etc i need is there anything online i can use?
sand garnet
pretty sure there's one on reddit
glacial hemlock
Or wiki.
violet stirrup
Anyone know why these two layouts are not equal in smelter requirements? shorturl.at/cfoTZ and shorturl.at/btw18
One is 10 reinforced plates and 10 rotors per minute, and the other is 10 smart plates per minute.
I would expect only the building requirements for the last step (Using reinforced plates and rotors to create the smart plates) would change. However the first step (Smelting ore), have an additional smelter for some reason.
clear citrus
I took some time to actually math into it, and no, the bolted recipes aren't worth it, for a standalone factory. The faster output is actually slower, because with the same input you should build more machines using the regular recipe, which grants a higher output than the bolted alts in total.
However, if you have a world like one of mine, where you have a mega screw factory, then perhaps it's worth it as you could treat screws as a hypothetically infinite /min available.
So I guess the bolted recipes really just encourage screw factory deliveries instead of making screws on site
spice holly
you're understanding it wrong, what he meant by worth it is, it's worth to get the extra space & power that get at the expense of a little bit of iron.
clear citrus
saving power seems inherently unworth, since you can just make more power.
Saving space is worth if you care about saving space, and not if you don't.
spice holly
it's situational, but there are situations where it might be worth.
since you usually expand power by blocks, if you have some spare, and then, might as well utilise it.
clear citrus
I wonder what the maximum possible producible power is ...🤔 (without having to manually refill basic biofuel generators)
There's only so many coal/urananium/geyser/oil nodes
gray marlin
Anyone got an up to date crafting tree ?
violet stirrup
Assuming no OC, should be pretty easy to calculate max power. The other assumption is that all the nodes that can supply materials for power only go towards supplying power.
clear citrus
yea. But I'm not about to do the math on that one myself lol
it would be easy, sure, but not worth the time to run the numbers. for me.
modern spindle
So I did some testing with the AWESOME Sink, I got the formula for Coupon cost, anyone feel like updating the wiki?
its in groups of 3 again, and coupon in x-th group costs 1500 - 1000x + 500x^2, or n-th coupon cost is 1500 - 1000ceil(n/3) + 500ceil(n/3)^2
Its a lot harder to get the golden nut now 😦
shy mason
If you stick with just nuclear, you should be fine power wise unless they make even more processes. A terawat should be plenty
glacial hemlock
even half a tera should be sufficent
buoyant turtle
ive discovered something. an industrial storage container will put all the output in the coveyor you put down first if there is only 1 item in it. this doesnt always work if you have a lot of items so if you put 2 storage containers in a row you have a good overflow system. this is with mk3 belts, on higher tiers you may need to put more storage containers in a row, or use a hybrid system where you split a small part into the isc and the rest directly into your normal storage. then when any item goes in the isc it always goes back into the storage system unless it's full
woeful skiff
My understanding of the isc behavior is that it will appear to be consistent within a single play session, but then the next time you play it may flip so it's not consistent long term.
clear citrus
In an objective sense, is one of the staring areas "the best one"?
sick musk
Well the new Red Dunes starting area has a ton of pure iron nodes and a pure Cat within spitting distance.. but there's a lot of hostile mobs around 😉
sudden pumice
I like dune. Very easy terrain for start
clear citrus
I mean sooner or later the whole world is your zone
toxic flax
Assuming no alternate recipes just yet, if I have a full 300m^3 pipe, should I go with 7x plastic, 2x rubber?
Or 3x rubber?
shy mason
You'll need a sink for residue you'll be making so focusing on plastic would help. Think you'll only need rubber for space elevator parts, filters, and rifle ammo without alternate recipes
toxic flax
What can I make with residue? Fuel, no?
sand garnet
https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev has a list of everythign
shy mason
Fuel and coke
Turbo fuel if you add compact coal as well
In meantime you can just flush the entire pipe system if you add some buffers to temporarily hold it, so you can keep plastic/rubber production going
scarlet marsh
does anyone know why diluted fuel comes only in packaged form?
just means you need to add another step to package water and then unpackage the fuel?
why not just mix water/fuel in liquid form?
and output liquid
also, it seems like packaging liquids is completely useless - only useful for packaging fuel for vehicles
pine tangle
I believe "there is no building with two liquid inputs" is the reason. Besides, I fully expect Diluted Fuel being subjected to rework in the future.
scarlet marsh
yeah, to me it just seems obvious that you would have that problem - i mean you would think the devs thought add this for this recipe
shadow prairieBOT
You can send Questions, Feedback, Suggestions, and Bug Reports at https://questions.satisfactorygame.com
<3 @sand garnet
scarlet marsh
or at least make packaging faster
2 packaging refineries per water extractor is nuts
sand garnet
you can suggest changes at the link above
scarlet marsh
yeah im thinking they should just have a pipe to conveyor conversion section - where you input package - just converts the 300/m on pipe directly right into package on belt
sand garnet
without a machine?
where does that plastic come from then?
just poofs into existence?
keen brook
good day mathematicians
scarlet marsh
hello
violet stirrup
Is a 1 to 7 balancer possible?
Looked all over the place, can't find one, and couldn't figure it out myself.
toxic flax
Is there any particular reason not to just use a manifold?
Assuming you "prime the pump" and drop a full stack of resources on the end and continue down the line?
violet stirrup
Of course, as soon as a type the question, the way to do it becomes apparent, lol.
empty hemlock
cause before you were thinking about how to ask the question, after you were done you thought about what answers you'd get :P
violet stirrup
Very fair haha
Ive been racking my brain, because I new it was possible, basically all odd number balancers are, just had to figure it out
scarlet marsh
its possible but no functional reason to ever do that
woeful skiff
There is a term called "Rubber Ducky Debugging" that software developers use and it's when you get stuck you ask your questions to a rubber duck, which can have the same effect and is a great story I tell my peers to keep them from asking me questions. (questions they didn't really need me for... I love helping people with questions when they're truly stuck on something)
violet stirrup
Balancers have very functional reasons, to balance output... lol
scarlet marsh
not for a 1-7, maybe you want to do a 7-7 balancer
1-7 - just leaves you with 7 belts of 1/7th throughput
in which case why have 7 belts - why not 1 belt?
you need to at least have as much input as your output
violet stirrup
Theres alot of assumptions in your post.
The 1-7 balancer is coming off of a set of machines that are already balanced from previous machines. I am keeping all my machines balanced in their workload. To maximize efficiency.
My belts in this work stream will never be saturated, its not about belt saturation, its about machine efficiency.
scarlet marsh
machine efficiency upstream will be the same with or without the balancer - because you can only pull 1 belt worth of material from your output at max capacity to feed into the 1-7 balancer
can you identify the invalid assumptions?
violet stirrup
It would 100% not be the same without a balancer, otherwise I would have completely separate workstreams, and would lose efficiency.
scarlet marsh
i would encourage you to evaluate that claim further
violet stirrup
Evaluated as requested, confirmed my original statement as suspected.
scarlet marsh
if you have 7/m coming in you only get 1/m out on each belt
hence only 1 belt needed, no?
violet stirrup
Seeing as my only question was how to run a 1-7 balancer, no need for further discussion.
scarlet marsh
okay, clear the answer is that is is not needed - no problem
violet stirrup
Was never the question.
Also, how do you get 1 belt to go to 7 machines, as you stated, only 1 belt is needed.
scarlet marsh
right, no problem
sand garnet
manifold
scarlet marsh
take 1 belt and just split off from it 7 times
the 7 machines will ensure the belt is balanced
violet stirrup
They will become balanced at some point in time. Using a balancer, they are balanced from the start.
Because a manifold is dependent on saturation of a belt in order to saturate the next one down the line.
scarlet marsh
correct
violet stirrup
And that is exactly why I am using a balancer and not a manifold.
Because I want it balanced from the start
I do not want it balanced from amount of time later.
sand garnet
for super long ones i think it takes like 20 mins to balance in a manifold
scarlet marsh
yeah its essentially just putting an in-line buffer
violet stirrup
So, there clearly is a functional reason to use a balancer as opposed to a manifold.
I use manifolds as well, but in this particular case, a balancer suits my needs better.
scarlet marsh
yes, if you want to avoid the startup transient - i would say that it should be irrelevant though, which is why i dont recommend for newer players
violet stirrup
So, there is a functional reason, glad we came to the correct conclusion together.
lament scarab
correct me if im wrong, but the 5 way splitter works by just split it in 6 and feed the 6th belt back in the beginning
so what if u split 9 times and feed 2 belts back into the first splitter?
violet stirrup
Ya, that would do the 1-7, I was overthinking it when I was trying to design it.
scarlet marsh
are you talking about the overflow?
lament scarab
idk if i understood the question directly, but just if u want to split a belt in 7 subbelts equally
violet stirrup
Ya, i've actually got 3 machines feeding 5 machines feeding 7 machines, and because I don't have to worry about belt saturation (Due to the amounts being produced), I just used balancers in between.
A little bit more work then a manifold, however, IMO, looks better, and is immediately balanced. Manifold is simpler however.
ancient crater
hmm can a shredder not keep up with a mk5 belt 780/min? i had one mk5 line and it was stuttering, now i added a 2nd shredder and it seems work fine
lament scarab
havent reached mk5 yet myself but i heard other ppl call it a bug @ jarno
ancient crater
Well if it's a known bug that atleast my findings are correct and I can use a 2nd shredder was a work around for now
mellow nimbus
Ok I am not a math wiz but let me see if I have this right. If I have a pure Iron node. Max bugs tier 2 miner and I Am cranking out base tier 1 iron ingots 1-1 I can in theory run 300 machines?
OR is it 20 machines because 4 second action =15 actions per minute?
scarlet marsh
300 machines doing what?
mellow nimbus
making iron ignots
dry girder
a nuclear power plant clocked at 100% but only using 50% effectively only consumes half of the resources it needs right?
scarlet marsh
look at the smelter recipe
mellow nimbus
Smelter does 1 run per 4 seconds at 1-1 ratio
scarlet marsh
it consume 30/m and output 30/m i think, right?
mellow nimbus
I aint in game have to recheck
mellow nimbus
Ok thx guys
scarlet marsh
np
clear citrus
@violet stirrup Sorry for being a latecomer but I was reading where Discord opened up to on the conversation and it's bugging me.
Tree. You're making a tree. With branches. Running 1 belt into a splitter setup to feed seven machines in balance is a tree.
A balancer is when you take a set of multiple belts that are the output of something (because a single belt is too slow) and make it so each as an equal amount of the output (and is also connected to every output machine).
So if you have 2 belts running next to each other, one fed by 7 of 11 machines and the other only by 4. You put a splitter then merger on each one, and put an X of belts in the middle. Now they each get half, 5.5 machines worth.
At any rate, yes building a tree is worth it. The only things a manifold saves you is space and some building time.
Saving space only matters if you care about it . For some factories I do, for others I don't.
The extra time taken for a branch isn't long anyway I find, and feels better than time spent waiting for manifold delay.
I use trees amd manifolds depending on me exact varied concerns with a given factory.
glacial hemlock
It is just a different play style. So chill
Some people, like, building tornadoes with belt.
vast copper
hey gang, regarding the large container, I remember the 2 outputs have different priorities, is it also related to which input you use (top or bottom) ?
glacial hemlock
They are not consistent, and their priority got shuffled at each reload, so use them at your own risk.
clear citrus
though is the premise of machine created balance
that is, if what's at the end of your belt from the crate is only build to eat 30 blahs/min, that's all it'll take regardless of the output priority being messed up
so if your input to the crate is more or the same as your outputs, the priority fails don't really matter
nonetheless I wish they'd fix it so that crate outputs were like splitters, going 1:1
mossy olive
how much fuel does a fuel generator use at full Load? trying to setup my power
serene abyss
Regular fuel: 15/min at 100%
Turbo fuel: 4,5/min at 100%
sharp crow
@dry girder unless you have geothermal generators connected, all of your power plants consume their fuel at a rate equal to the fraction of your total power capacity that is being consumed. so if you're using half the power in your power grid, the nuclear plant will consume half the fuel rods and half the water and produce half the waste. if geothermal generatora are connected the equation is pretty much the same, you just subtract the geothermal generators from both your capacity and consumption
a good thing to keep in mind for if you're building a very large nuclear setup is that the reactors will be running at very low production rates. for example, with a full terawatt of nuclear power (very close to the maximum possible nuclear power), a factory that consumes fifty gigwatts will only consume five percent of that terawatt
serene gorge
i was never good in math
glacial hemlock
Then this game is a good trainer for you
vast copper
hey gang, am I missing something or the geothermal power source is not much of use, because by the time you get supercomputers to build them you already have a ton of fuel power or even nuke, both of which dwarf the 3600 MW of available geothermal power on the map (18 nodes) (equivalent to 800/min coal gen)
woeful skiff
I haven't gotten that far, but free power is free power right?
pine tangle
Geothermal have highest priority for Consumption. From the tip of my head, the best use is to run your Power industry from Geothermal (Coal Miners, Fuel production chains, et cetera) to avoid blackouts.
But yes, generally Geothermal is a bit niche for now.
vast copper
Free power is nice, but when you plan or produce >50GW, extra free 3.6GW isn't that attractive to me when you have to wire half the world to get it :< @woeful skiff
great idea @pine tangle maybe I'll consider this indeed 😮
cedar mica
If you are making paths, to get all the oil, you pass by most of the geothermals
sharp wind
Am i right in thinking residual plastic and rubber is a more efficient use of oil, by my maths seems plastic is only marginally better
Ignoring power usage and water
pine tangle
More of "wiggle room" than "efficiency". Having Resin as middle step offers an tiny bit of extra Plastic/Rubber.
sharp wind
Thought as much I was hoping it would temporarily fix my lack of rubber although it does seem to be better for rubber
About 1.6x more rubber out of the same oil
pine tangle
Basically, by running Resin you have extra Refinery of Plastic by each six refineries of Resin - or extra Rubber Refinery by four Resin.
You can get MUCH better efficiency from switching to fuel chain - Diluted Fuel and Recycled Plastic/Rubber Alternates.
sharp wind
I had it in my head that residual plastic/rubber used heavy residue so i could make both out of one oil line, no worries just need to lay more pipes
Need to get more hard drives, leep hunting that diluted fuel
vast copper
HOR > Dilluted packaged Fuel is imo the best deal for oil then you produce whatever you need, and this reduces your need for oil nodes drastically, that's how I decided to produce plastic and rubber, seems to be the best deal according to the math
pine tangle
Generally, it is much easier to run basic direct Oil->Product conversion, due to Resin demanding much more space and piping. After which, directly go for Diluted setup.
sharp wind
I'll run a separate rubber and plastic refinery set up for now then, to get some more tech unlocked cheers guys
vast copper
I chose to centralise all the production, so I get all my turbofuel, plastic, and rubber from the same chain
all from only 4 pipepline of crude oil
I don't think you can get more with as little oil @sharp wind
pine tangle
From experience, just pop down 5+5 refineries for Plastic and Rubber - enough to consume 300 m3 Oil - and convert byproducts in to Coke. Sink or Burn it in turn.
You do not need a lot to unlock all milestones.
sharp wind
That's a lot of water lol, good job most oil is next to water
vast copper
I'll get the water from the NE ocean ^^ The northern oil beach is for oil only for me ^^
sharp wind
Got to get my trains down too get this world consumption properly started
pine tangle
Oil Coast up north has some major depth issues, as I discovered in my Dunes playtrough... -_-
vast copper
East of the Swamp for me is the perfect place to get all the water, I tell myself that's how I'll drain/dry the swamps :p
toxic flax
Anyone tried out that 6 splitters + 6 mergers overflow? Any noticeable increase in lag in your factories?
vast copper
I didn't heard about that, what is it ?
wise obsidian
pine tangle
Basically, in perfect situation, the "overflow" output is 1/729 of "input". Since it has large number of tiny connections and belts running in a small volume, I do not recommend large scale use.
vast copper
oh wow
if you're at 20.1m headlift is it still working or you should aim for 19.9m (pump)?
trim oar
vast copper
hey gang, so I fiinshed all the calculations, and I'm gonna bring back 19200 water home, not including water for nukes.
I need 64 pipes, what would be the best to mitigate the power consumptions ?
Option A : 3 extractor downclocked to provide 100 each per pipe ?
Option B : 5 extractor to 2 pipes with 1 extractor split between the 2 pipes ?
well I'm going for option B, cuz option A makes me build more than 30 extractors more, and it's a nightmare to build these with perfect alignment :/
but I'm still curious about what you think and the power
pine tangle
Considering I run 3 100% Extractors to 6 Coal Generators with single pipe? I am probably NOT the person to ask this :3
vast copper
i'll build 160 extractor, in a 1016 grid // each line of 10 split in packs of 5 // each pack of 5 outputs 2 perfect pipeline
then I bring the 64 pipes in a 416 layout 16 wide (4 foundation) and 4 stackable pole thing high, that's gonna be a THIK BOY pipeline project XD
oh jeez all the multiplication signs got transformed
😫
lament scarab
u can just put a backslash in front of every * i think
\ <- backslash
paper mauve
or just use a lower case x
lament scarab
as turbofuel seems to be quite a popular power source i wanted to ask what setups u guys run...
the math i did so far would involve
240 coal and sulfur each and 540 crude oil for 10GW power (power costs for producing turbofuel not substracted atm)
with that setup i would hit exactly 300 turbofuel/min
however i would need to produce 360 fuel with 540 crude oil, which would require a lot of pipe organisation
now i dont know whether i should scale down for simplicity or not
well, pls hit me with some tips, thx :)