I prefer the first.
#math-and-meta
glacial hemlock
median umbra
are there any current production planners that are simple to follow?
scarlet marsh
depends what you want to calculate
median umbra
just properly starting off myself so the basic stuff as of now. iron plates, rods and so on. working up to reinforced iron plates
pulsar trellis
Hello Admin, Modo and Devs of Satisfactory. Yesterday, When I played Satisfactory, I was disapointed about seeing we can't craft the factory cars in the Manufacturer. Why ?!
storm ingot
@fallen cloak I also do modular. Raw to finished in one building.
icy gull
scarlet marsh
@icy gull you are trying to host a calculator?\
wind spade
@pulsar trellis because factory cart is an equipment and it is crafted in equipment workshop. You only need like 1 or 2 anyway, so there's no need to automate them
scarlet void
@icy gull That URL is hosted by the website for satisfactory mods (SML)
upbeat granite
I've placed an Fluid Buffer MK1 8 Platforms (32m) above the Fluid Extractor. It's a pure node, so max flowrate is 240m³/min
My question is: why does the buffer fill with 240m³/min allthough i haven't installed any pumps?
vagrant knot
Water?
vagrant knot
Water only flows from an extractor running at 100% at 120m³/m
upbeat granite
Oil
vagrant knot
Oh ok
molten falcon
🧠
vagrant knot
But yeah at that height your fluid shouldn't be able to traverse that high without auxillary pumps
upbeat granite
Mysterious
I'll check how high it'll go
vast copper
Hi gang, what's up ? QQ: I'm planning for my mega base and I wanted to know if it's better to plan for 480 lines for the entire prod, or plan for 600 lines to future proof the whole build ?Any thoughts on that ?
spice holly
480 lines as in belt lines?
lunar pivot
I always plan for 780in with MK5 belts
Even if I am just starting with mk1 or 2 belts, I build my buss system for mk5.
fallow lily
For a true, tier 7 megabase? Yeah, plan for 780/minute line capacity.
sage olive
Revising things is sort of part of the game isn't it
upbeat granite
It's so factorio to use a bus 
clear citrus
I don't think I ever used a bus in factorio
pine tangle
Even if you try to setup Science by isolated chains, it become just way too large space wise in latest versions, compared to Satisfactory.
Unlocking Tier 7 is trivial compared to Utility Science automation 
wind spade
not sure about that
you can build really small in Factorio
it's all about how fast you unlock stuff
ancient crater
Someone told me to ask my question here, I don't fully agree as it's not about min maxing, but I don't understand why the industrial fluid buffer with a flow rate of 300 wont fill up in 4 seconds?
as in my head 1200 / 300 per sec = 4 secs?
modern briar
i think its limited by the pipe flow rate, which is lower then that
cedar mica
I assume the refinerys has the 10m head lift?
ancient crater
Should have it afaik
cedar mica
Refinerys and Fluid buffers, sits 1 foundation above the fuel gens. Will the fluid buffers be fine?
sage olive
Lets hope this will work...
upbeat granite
Nice
glacial hemlock
Nice drawing
tawdry pebble
@ancient crater Not sure if you found the mistake you typed out but you were using the wrong time value - seconds instead of minutes Oil Extractor
"Normal extraction rate: 120m³ oil per minute"
edgy summit
uhm i do my math with full outflow of my pipe systems 300m3 per pipe Max
and i have around 9 full output oil pipes
so you can do that math easyer for pipe lyouts
and thare is a nother Recipe for beter lyout
make plastic and use that byproduct and you can make fuel petroleum coke and its the best way to make the most amount of rubber in large amounts and the lowest amount of waste.
keen brook
or use turbofuel
tender palm
resource transportation using belts / pipes is always cheaper in terms of power, but heavier on the resources thanks to the long distance for pipes / belts, right ?
spice holly
compared to what
tender palm
Like: I want to build a heavy modular frame setup for 60-ish per minute. For that I need 4.5 pure coal nodes worth of coal. Trains would be easier to handle, but the power cost would be greater.
Sorry, compared to using trains
Or other vehicles
spice holly
well, i mean yea, one is using power, the other isn't. Although I think you're kinda missing the point of train if you compare it like that.
tender palm
What would be the point that I am missing !?
spice holly
They're more scalable compared to belt. Easier and quicker to setup and expand. If I want to double that 4.5 pure coal nodes, or take some of it and bring it somewhere else, I just need to add a new station.
Yes, they take power, but it's pretty negligible at the grand scale of things, especially if you're doing something like 60 hmf/min, no?
tender palm
Well, one train can use up to 110mw, which is like 6coal / min in 1.5 coal generators. Consindering I would need more than just 1 train, I guess the coal costs would skyrocket pretty fast (Haven't set up any fuel/turbofuel production as I want to use trains to move all my oil to a single factory)
spice holly
they only take 110 mw when accelerating
tender palm
I mean, I asked because I don't know which route I should go as the nodes are limited
So I should make a mix I guess ? transport all liquids / items to a local train station and then use trains to get them to the base ?
spice holly
if it's items, then I would def prefer trains over belts for med-long distance. If it's liquid, then it's kind of a toss-up. Trains doesn't have great fluid capacity last time I checked, so I'm not sure.
tender palm
1/3 of an industrial fluid buffer (500m³) per car
oblique hollow
considering that pipes can output 300m³/min at max, even a normal fluid buffer would take 1 minute to empty
and a big one 5 minutes
your train routes shouldnt take that long. if certain resources have a higher priority, put them on a "express train"
tender palm
I was planning to bring all of the oil on the map to a single spot (preferably close to water) to build a single refinery setup to deal with all the oil
spice holly
that's a yikes from me
oblique hollow
that sounds.... more intesive than needed
since then that Mega Refinery is a chokepoint
spice holly
with how stations currently work, your stations will almost always be busy, and not output anywhere near optimal, unless you start using different stations every few oil nodes.
oblique hollow
local usage of resources > centralized processing
also the bigger the distance, the bigger the buffers before the stations need to be
since a 3 minute travel time will leave an oil extractor more time to output than a 1 minute travel
spice holly
you also have to keep in mind that freight platform doesn't input/output items/liquids when the train is loading/unloading, so if you have a super busy station, it just won't work.
I won't say it's impossible, but you're certainly making things harder for yourself doing it this way lol.
tender palm
2 of the oil "chunks" aren't close to water, so the efficient processing of that is not possible. I either have to cart water there or the oil somewhere else...
tender palm
Then I'd need to run extra trains just to bring the canisters... Also, consindering the amount of canisters I need to keep the production up I would need to run a canister factory which drains oil from other products
oblique hollow
that is indeed the price you need to pay
but you wont need to produce new canisters constantly unless you burn them in tractors
so its only a temporary drain
also at that stage you wont be able to keep up with coal imo. start with fuel already
spice holly
yes, then you can bring those 2 oil chunks somewhere near water and process it there. It's much easier than bringing all oils from the map and process it in 1 spot.
tulip wind
I don't know about that lol. That's what I do and I find it easier to do it all in one spot versus going to separate places on the map and doing it instead.
oblique hollow
i find it a bit too choky
spice holly
I'm all for it if it's for main bus or whatever, but I don't see any benefit whatsoever with centralizing your power grid in 1 spot.
oblique hollow
centralized outages ooof
tulip wind
For me it's easier because that way all my processes that are my priority can be on that grid, and any others that are more out-of-the-way I can just create a power source near those processes to run them and have whatever fluids and other resources brought to my main factory.
oblique hollow
im not a fan of main factories anyway so
tender palm
Do you run multiple power grids throughout the whole map ? all of my map is running the same power ...
oblique hollow
well, more like "my one huge mega base"
spice holly
that feels inefficient
spice holly
Mine, it's still 1 power grid, I just have it in multiple spots in the map, connected by my train networks.
oblique hollow
like my pumps and refineries
if they die it takes way too much effort to restart them
tulip wind
I do run mulitple power grids yes. I have one for my quartz, one for my oil and water, and another for my caterium.
Then there's my main factory lol.
spice holly
That's just a waste of power lmao
oblique hollow
theres a reason the world isnt on one power grid either
well first its limitations, sure...
tender palm
You can't compare RL with a game
oblique hollow
you can take certain aspects of it
tulip wind
Not really a waste of power, because at first dealing with random shut-downs wasted a lot of time, so keeping some processes separate helps immensely.
sand garnet
Good luck finding your crashed powergrid when you hear the sound
spice holly
comparing this with RL world is pretty dumb. RL World, cables have wattage capacity.
oblique hollow
dont look too deep into what i said, jeez
sand garnet
1 big grid is easier
tulip wind
Not for me lol.
sand garnet
If it shutsdown you know you can fix it from anywhere
spice holly
I guess, the point is, 1 power grid is OK, 1 centralized power factory is no.
oblique hollow
there is no absolute best power grid system
sand garnet
A single grid has more benefits than separate grids
tulip wind
The one I have is really good in my opinion. I know which grid would be shut-down if anything happens, and I know it would have to be the nearest one if I'm making adjustments.
sand garnet
You dont know for sure. The sound indicating a crash doesnt specify what shut down
oblique hollow
what i am okay with though is a "centralized power surveillance center"
tulip wind
No, but to me it's obvious which one shut down lol.
spice holly
it's a waste of power though
sand garnet
You cant be certain
oblique hollow
like, if you have multiple grids close to each other, run a line into a central spot, but dont connect them. that way i can check all of them in a short time
tulip wind
Yes, I can be certain lol. It's not that hard to check a power pole lol.
spice holly
you aren't likely to be utlizing 100% of those localized power, so you have a lot of overheads everywhere which results in unused power
oblique hollow
theres ways to work around problems. nothing is final
tulip wind
Not really. 99% of the time if a shut-down happens around me somewhere, it's usually in the area I'm making my adjustments lol.
oblique hollow
I dont like excluding certain options just because they "seem bad"
I look into them. and see if you can deal with their issues
sand garnet
This is the math and meta channel
oblique hollow
this is meta
tulip wind
Not really, this is more like discourse lol.
sand garnet
Objectively speaking, there are more benefits to a single grid than to a bunch of separate grids
spice holly
That's why I didn't say it's wrong, I just say it's not efficient.
scarlet marsh
build power plant to match your design basis - simple
spice holly
The reality is, you can play however way you want, however inefficient you want.
tulip wind
^This, both of them lol.
sand garnet
The only benefit of several grids is that if 1 collapses the rest keeps working
Thats the only benefit.
scarlet marsh
what situation is it worth?
sand garnet
Right but a single grid has more benefits so thst makes it objectively better
oblique hollow
vital factory parts that you dont want to die
tulip wind
Well, one process I have on separate power is the water extractors that run my nuclear plants. I needed those separate because I wasn't able to avoid that lol.
sand garnet
How are you not able to avoid that
scarlet marsh
just spend the time to build a power plant upfront
tulip wind
Shut-downs happened way too many times, and plus you can't get your extractors working if there's no power lol.
scarlet marsh
then you dont have to disconnet/reconnect as power keeps tripping
sand garnet
That says more about your ability to manage power than a single grid being a bad idea
spice holly
if your power shut-downs often, that means your current power is under your potential max consumable power.
scarlet marsh
if you are experiencing shutdown - you need to build larger power plant
thats the appropriate way to address the problem
spice holly
it doesn't matter if you have multiple grids or not.
tulip wind
Not really, it shows that running a separate process to help manage another process that involves your main power grid is more efficient than using all on one. If you've ever needed to use a biomass generator to get something running, then you're doing the same thing I'm doing with my extractors lol.
scarlet marsh
you dont need to use biomass gens if your power plant meets the factory design basis
tulip wind
That's not really what I was getting at lol.
scarlet marsh
the power consumed by your factory has a maximum value
spice holly
I like to plant ahead for my power needs, rather than experiencing shut-down first and then expand.
scarlet marsh
if you design your power plant below what your factory needs, then you should just build a smaller factory or underclock
spice holly
It's inefficient anyway.
oblique hollow
thats easy to say if you have a big plan
scarlet marsh
it easy to say and implement
why do you believe it is difficult to implement?
maybe the folks in the discord can help if you are struggling to understand your power req'ts
spice holly
I'm curious which part of power planning you find it hard.
oblique hollow
fact is ive talked myself into a hole aaand i dont know where to begin answering
so im dropping the topic
tulip wind
Well, I'm not one to find it hard, just hard to keep up with sometimes until you can get it working the way you wanted it to work lol. It's pretty easy now though, especially since they added fluids.
Anyways, would this channel be good to talk about a mod or so?
scarlet marsh
yeah if you understand how to setup power correctly such that it has the right amount of inputs - you never have any issues
tulip wind
Right, I'm in that server, but I was just wondering about seeing what people would think about this mod. It helps by dealing with nuclear waste and repurposes it into a recycled uranium pellet to run back into the manufacturing of nuclear fuel rods. I just wanted to see if anyone is using this mod and if they're liking it or not. I'm not the dev who made it, but I've been helping that person with any fixes/bugs/feedback.
It also involves a lot of different fluids and the math is pretty bonkers too lol.
wind spade
I feel that it's op. Waste shouldn't have use, it's there to nerf nuclear, so that it comes with a cost
tulip wind
Nuclear does come with a cost, but the dev behind this is going based on the PUREX model.
glacial hemlock
or maybe some super complex process to reduce or recycle part of the waste
wind spade
Realism in games doesn't always make them good
tulip wind
It is pretty complex actually lol.
spice holly
Haven't tried that mod yet, but sounds pretty awesome from the description on the mod page.
wind spade
The point is that you shouldn't be able to get rid of the waste
glacial hemlock
In: 50 waste, 20 sulfuric acid, out: 45 waste, 15 sulfuric acid
something like that
pine tangle
Complex production chain to disactivate it (remove radioactivity) with latter storage would have been fine. As is Waste is just frustration for the sake of frustration.
tulip wind
You shouldn't, but the PUREX method of recycling nuclear waste is a real thing.
It's not complete realism though lol.
spice holly
just pilling nuclear waste in an array of storage containers seems like a dumber alternative imo.
wind spade
In: 50 waste, other products, out: 15 unprocessable waste, byproducts
spice holly
maybe the ratio is op, idk, but numbers can always be tweaked.
tulip wind
Well, this process doesn't really get rid of the waste in a particularly quick manner, but it does help a lot in managing it.
glacial hemlock
would like to see additional parts / fluids is released for the waste management
tulip wind
This person did create quite a few recipes for that actually, 11 to be exact.
Also included a diagram for all the processes involved with it too which you can construct the board that shows it if you want to.
oblique hollow
i guess theres a reason we didnt get lead
wind spade
Well you asked for a feedback and I gave you mine, there's no need to push me into accepting the mod 🙂
tulip wind
I'm not, it's player's preference after all lol.
scarlet marsh
the solution to polution is dilution
sand garnet
I agree with greeny
tulip wind
Well, most people who don't use mods the in the ways I would would be in tune with that, so it's expected. I wasn't expecting much for feedback though honestly, but it's all good. I still appreciate it though. Thank you all.
scarlet marsh
yeah the storage containers seem like kind of a weak game mechanic - i mean you can just build lots of them and it has no real affect on anything
not that i know a better way to address that at this time - but just an fyi
maybe they should make the radius of effect larger such that it can take over the map - and if you use nuclear power you can completely radiate the world and have to adapt to it
tulip wind
It does make the radius larger the more nuclear waste is stored in any container.
Whether you store them horizontal or vertical doesn't matter, as the radius expands in all directions.
scarlet marsh
maybe they should make a cooling pond like real life
you have to put it in water or it melts
if it melts you have meltdown
spreads all over
yeah but the radius of effect is minor enough that it doesnt affect anything appreciably
tulip wind
That's not really how nuclear waste works lol. Most of that happens in the reactor anyways.
scarlet marsh
yeah it is
it needs to be cooled
you cant just put in in a metal box
until its diluted down
tulip wind
Yes, but it's cooled during the process of nuclear fission, which happens in the reactor, where they would have the water.
scarlet marsh
yeah but this is outside the reactor
this is spent fuel
you dont just put spent fuel in a metal box
tulip wind
Yes, which water is no longer needed for nuclear waste lol.
sage olive
We just need boats to dump it at sea.
For every waste you deliver you get plastic back.
wind spade
You don't use plastic for waste tho
sage olive
It was an environmental joke, since we all know the sea is made of plastic .-.
tulip wind
So water is only used for treating low-level nuclear waste like tritium. However the majority of nuclear waste disposal is done by either recycling the radioactive elements or storing the waste until it decays enough to pose no threat.
Dilution is used, but very rarely from what I'm seeing.
Also, nuclear physics is really confusing lol.
spice holly
storing waste until it decays enough
uranium 238 has 4.47 billion years half life, which make it practically infinite though, no?
tulip wind
Yes, which makes it a good element to keep recycling and reusing. Which is why water is not used to dilute that.
Also, back to main channel for me on this. I do apologize for clogging the math channel.
trim oar
recycling nuclear waste would be nice. cause i already have 5k of it
maybe in the future we can refine it to something else in another building
walls and foundations which dont let the radiation trough
or a lead conveyor and container which dont let radiation trough would be nice
scarlet marsh
water is always needed to cool - and when you say dilution what do you mean when you say it is rarely used?
sage olive
I like the factorio solution. Would also require smart splitters
scarlet marsh
you think they just take the spent fuel and and bury it?
tulip wind
Dilution as in to treat the nuclear waste.
Water is only used in the actual process to help with fission.
trim oar
@sage olive but the factorio solution is a bit to easy for Satisfactory
tulip wind
I did, and it's used to treat low-level radioactive waste like tritium.
wind spade
Radiation covers the whole map tho. Making it blocked by foundations isn't really possible
tulip wind
Most of these do not recommend using water for nuclear waste disposal.
It does for some, but definitely not the majority of it.
trim oar
@wind spade i wanted to say a special foundation and wally with lead to block radiation. maybe also a new ressource : lead
wind spade
It's not possible from game's perspective
trim oar
why?
scarlet marsh
they could add shielding foundations
trim oar
but in the game its like that
scarlet marsh
you dont use water based on recommendation, you use it based on how much heat is coming off the fuel
trim oar
then make lead belts and containers to cover the radiation
scarlet marsh
ok
so its like real life then
was not sure how they implemented it
makes sense
trim oar
at the moment the radiation is around the item
wind spade
You don't calculate if you're in a radius, you sum all the intensities from items on the map
tender palm
greeny do you know if it is possible to create a small mod that lets you build longer conveyors and just builds a conveyor pole at the max distance of a single one ? like you build a conveyor of the length of 48 units and the mod will place a conveyor pole at 24 units and 48 units ?
wind spade
And if it's higher than 0.2, you're in a radioactive zone
trim oar
but in real life they transport the waste too and the way is not full of readiation cause they cover the radiation in a conainer in a truck
wind spade
Sure, but this is not real life
scarlet marsh
uh yes in real life it is radioactive
tender palm
@wind spade wouldnt that mean, that as soon as you have stacks and stack of nuclear waste the whole map would be lethal to you ?
wind spade
@tender palm yes, it would also mean you need around 5000 years of gameplay
@tender palm also I don't know much about modding
tender palm
Ok, sry about that then
scarlet marsh
i think that you should be able to post process the nuclear waste - to extract out rare metals for tier 8
i think there should be some use for it
that would be cool
tulip wind
@tender palm Yes, eventually the whole map would be rendered unplayable if too much nuclear waste is present.
wind spade
You can't give use to nuclear waste
trim oar
why is my gpu at 100%?
scarlet marsh
why not?
wind spade
That would lock the tech behind using nuclear power
scarlet marsh
yes it would
wind spade
That's not good for gameplay tho
wind spade
It forces player to do something he may not want
scarlet marsh
aluminum is a complicated refinement process
tender palm
What if you could recycle some of the waste back to usable nuclear fuel ? After 10 nuclear waste, another item gets back out of the reactor that we can process to get some nuclear fuel that is less efficient (like the petro coal)
scarlet marsh
you are forced to use oil to make rubber/oil, forced to use bauxite to make aluminum, forced to use copper/iron to make wire/plates
im not sure how being forced to use uranium to make say platinum or something like that is any different?
think of the power plant as first step in the refinement
shy mason
You asking for nuclear bombs?
scarlet marsh
you dont use platinum to make nuclear bombs
spice holly
you don't get platinum from nuclear waste either lol
tulip wind
I use Platinum for catching Pokemon... oh, whoops. lol Sorry about that.
scarlet marsh
i was thinking maybe like rare metals for electronics or strong structural materials like tantalum or something
uh yes you do get platinum from nuclear waste
you get lots of materials from waste
i just think it would be a cool and interesting refinement process - and would make nuclear fuel more needed
i mean we use already use petro coke which is a byproduct of plastic/rubber to make aluminum
spice holly
oh huh, you're right actually
spice holly
kinda shows that i'm not much of a nuclear physicist myself
tulip wind
Platinum from nuclear processes is mainly used for chemotherapy.
wind spade
@scarlet marsh that's different tho. You shouldn't be required to use one kind of power
spice holly
if they can make it interesting, I don't see why not.
scarlet marsh
and it doesnt have to be platinum
that was just an example of a possible rare metal that could be used
@wind spade im not really considering the nuclear power plant a power source for this purpose - the power is a byproduct of the refining in 'platinum' or other metals
fallow lily
Mmm, that is a bad idea.
scarlet marsh
its like a refinery you get 2 things out
maybe 1 you need maybe the other you dont or maybe both are useful
fallow lily
It scales your output of the product to your power consumption.
Which is a very awkward thing to scale it to.
scarlet marsh
@fallow lily thats why i said you need a way to sink power
@fallow lily just like how you sink the byproducts of refineries, you would need to have a sink
tulip wind
All platinum isn't just from nuclear. I found this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum
fallow lily
There's no need to ping me twice in a row.
scarlet marsh
@fallow lily maybe just heat up the water or have something that consumes lots of power
wind spade
Also sinking power? No thanks
fallow lily
Nelson, if you keep pinging me you're going to get ignored. The first time was sufficient, and I am currently looking at this conversation.
scarlet marsh
@tulip wind how do you think it got to 78 protons?
relax i was just using that to respond to you
fallow lily
Please refrain.
wind spade
80% of world production comes from actually mining platinum
scarlet marsh
yes thats true
we are talking about 2 different things
i concur with that
platinum is platinum - doesnt matter whether it is mined or produced in a manmade fission of higher elements
wind spade
Anyway, I stand by my opinion - you shouldn't be able to get rid of waste (at least not all of it) and if there was a reprocessing, it shouldn't give you any item that is only produced by that process (so that the item isn't locked behind nuclear power)
50 waste + items = 15 unprocessable waste + uranium sounds like a good way to add
pine tangle
Locking something behind Nuclear Power is fine. Thing is, production rate of Waste locked on Power Consumed. Now this is a problem.
fallow lily
Any process that produces something that can only be stored is going to get a miss from me.
tulip wind
Well, the mod does add quite a few recipes and doesn't really get rid of all the waste. Like I said before, if you want to you can try it out. If you don't well that's your preference lol.
wind spade
It isn't fine. You can run your whole base on coal gens. You shouldn't be required to use nuclear or fuel gens
pine tangle
I am tempted to mention "flat burn" Nuclear has in Factorio - but it has very different circumstances surrounding Nuclear.
wind spade
@tulip wind how is it limited that it only gets rid of some waste?
tulip wind
You will have to look at the recipes on that. I literally can't give you an opinion and be your judge for you lol.
That's not my call to make.
sand garnet
@tulip wind you should really just go to the modding discord if you want feedback about a mod
tulip wind
I am in the modding Discord. However it just makes sense to reach out to others, and it's not just feedback I'm looking for.
fallow lily
The rules of this Discord forbid discussing mods.
wind spade
It doesn't make sense since you can't talk about mods here
fallow lily
Hmm, "we ask" isn't exactly an outright prohibition, but the intent certainly is that mod related discussions not happen here.
fierce ruin
Here is some odd math... Reducing the output (underclocking) of a machine also reduces power-consumption on the same reverse curve of overclocking.
Eg, with enough machines, reduced enough, to match the same output... They consume almost no power. (They should consume the same power, or only slightly less, with overhead, when underclocked.)
Honestly, when overclocked, they should be MORE power friendly, not less, to a point. (You are using the same core components to manufacture more product. That singular overhead always stays the same, it is only the production-head that should be increasing, possibly exponentially.
Thus, at 150% overproduction it should be a linear increase, but not linear to the "base power". Linear to the "unit production power". Beyond that, it should be, honestly "over-driven", and start becoming inefficient to demand more from the equipment and process.
tulip wind
Okay, I understand. I was looking for where it says that about modding but I couldn't find it anywhere. However if that's the rule then that's the rule. I apologize about that.
fierce ruin
1 machine drains 4MW, but 2 at 50% production (making the same items) consumes only 2.6MW (1.3MW each)
fierce ruin
It gets even more efficient as you reach 1%... Nearly no power consumed when producing the same number of items.
wind spade
@fierce ruin overclocking needs to come with a cost and the cost is increased power consumption.
tulip wind
Ah, I see it now. Thanks for pointing me there.
fierce ruin
@wind spade But underclocking should too
wind spade
Underclocking comes with the cost of increased space
fierce ruin
Space is nearly infinate
wind spade
And power too
fierce ruin
Well, honestly, so is power
upbeat granite
I think, underclocking is to powerful. You almost always have the space for the extra machines. And ressources are endless, so no pain in building 10times the machines
fallow lily
Building 10x the machines is the pain.
fierce ruin
Clicking 10x is a pain?
wind spade
The only valuable resource is player's time
fierce ruin
Oh the connections
fallow lily
Oh yes. Plus 10x the mergers, belts, power poles, and everything else.
wind spade
10x buildings, 10x connections, 10x underclock
fallow lily
10x the foundations, walls, and so on.
Building a factory generally takes me much longer than planning it.
fierce ruin
Just a copy/paste with an editor
fallow lily
We don't have that.
fierce ruin
You don't
upbeat granite
We have
fierce ruin
😛 some of us do
upbeat granite
But i use it only for pentagonfoundations etc
warm wren
🤔 There any problems with running 10 refineries, I think I had an issue the last time I did it with the last one never running at 100%
upbeat granite
Everything else feels like cheating to me
wind spade
This is not a modding discord, so we assume no mods and no cheats for discussion 🙂
tulip wind
It does say save editors are fine, but modding should be in the other Discord.
tulip wind
Not really, I did just read into the rules more just to take a look again.
upbeat granite
Anyway, i think underclocking should be nerfed
tulip wind
So how is underclocking overpowered? I'm still wondering that...
It doesn't seem like it to me, although it does allow for more processes to be used.
tender palm
power is infinite ?
upbeat granite
Furthermore, to increase nuclearwaste pain and logistical problems: i want fluidbuffers to have max. 4m4m8m = 128m³ capacity, and storage containers with drastically decreased stacksize
sand garnet
Theres a max amount of power you can generate but you will never need anywhere close to it
upbeat granite
It's because i dont have to use nuclear, not even fuel to produce everything.
tender palm
I currently run coal too (6000mwh limit) but I am still not using any trains or any other bigger builds, just the 2/min starter base
fallow lily
MW, not MWh.
spice holly
you shouldn't be forced to, but you should be incentivized to though.
tulip wind
You shouldn't but people like me like having all that extra lol. I'm saving for a time when I go ahead and dump everything into a sink just to see all my processes work and also tell how much it takes just to run the entire thing.
tender palm
sry Nemoricus, when I get to a powerpole it usually displays MWh
fallow lily
The game is wrong.
It should be saying MW, not MWh. The latter is a measure of energy, the former is a measure of power.
tender palm
It's not really important anyways, it's a game. And games do operate out of RL measurements 😄
wind spade
@fallow lily on powerpole it makes sense, but unit is wrong, it should be MWs
fallow lily
That's still wrong.
fallow lily
No...you can't get energy that way. You have to specify a time period. The amount of energy you've produced at a single instant is zero.
If you mean, over the course of 1 second, then fine, that does work.
fallow lily
I'm not sure about that. It didn't seem like it updated every second, but I admittedly didn't time it to check.
tulip wind
It feels like it updates every second or so.
wind spade
Well but they can still change it to MWs and essentially be done with it
And it would be correct
Or change to MW, yeah
pine tangle
Watt is Joule per Second. Watt-Hour is constant power provided over hour. For example constant 500 watt of power during one hour.
wind spade
That's why MWs would be a correct thing if graph updates every second
tender palm
Well, then the ingame-label is correct if you think of the displayed MWhs as the average MWh over the last hour
pine tangle
If you take Coal Generator 75 MW as MWh, it will be 270.000 MW spread over one Hour. So no, MWh is incorrect unit of measure. It should be MW.
tender palm
Could anyone share the oil processing picture again ? no idea how to quickly find pictures in a discord channel
pine tangle
MW work perfect fine, yes. Never bothered to dig out why MWh used in real life consumption, but CSS used wrong unit of measure in Power graph. It actually goes in MW.
fallow lily
@tender palm That's definitely not what the in-game power graph displays.
It's closer to a graph of instantaneous power usage, and is very, very far from being an average of any sort.
tender palm
Well, then the ingame-label is correct if you think of the displayed MWhs as the average MWh over the last hour
Check the bold word. It's called imagination.
tender palm
Thats why I said imagine it to be the average. Nowhere did I say it actually is the average
fallow lily
Forgive me if I don't understand why you'd do that, when the graph is displaying nothing of the sort.
It's like imagining monkeys to be horses. Sure, you can do that, but monkeys aren't horses.
tender palm
No idea what I should answer there. No idea how you got to that conclusion, but I will just stop chatting about this useless topic and play some games, have a nice day.
wind spade
Sure, you can imagine that it's 1h average, but then the numbers are wrong @tender palm
That's what he's saying
wind spade
Uhhh... no
tulip wind
Definitely not lol.
oblique hollow
the unit is hours, not seconds in this case
3600 is indeed an hour in seconds
however the basis here is not the second
wind spade
1 MWh = 1 MW provided over 1 hour. Ingame graph shows power provided over 1 second
pine tangle
Yes, the actual unit of measure used in in-game power graph is MW, not MWh.
wind spade
Or MWs. But not MWh
oblique hollow
i guess the assumption is that the machines run at a consistent power consumption for one hour
wind spade
If you want MWh, you need to divide value by 3600
Considering the graph shows real production/consumption, that assumption is just wrong
wind spade
Watt-megahours
Lol
oblique hollow
sorry
tulip wind
Actually, I think that 3600 applies when you're looking for MW/s, not MW/h. I wouldn't multiply weeks by months if I'm looking for days.
pine tangle
@tulip wind Watt is already "per second". Joules per second.
oblique hollow
its MW times hour
wind spade
That's why the power pole graph can be viewed as MWs or MW. But not MWh, because the number would be wrong
oblique hollow
id be ok with MWs
spice holly
MW is already per second, so putting MWs is redundant and doesn't make sense.
oblique hollow
its not per second
its MW times second
or we would write MW/s
MWs is just a fancy way of writing MJ
wind spade
1 Ws = 1W * 1s = (1J / 1s) * 1s = 1J
oblique hollow
but since the Watt is mostly used for electricity and work, so do we
wind spade
@spice holly also it does make sense to put per second per second sometimes
E.g. acceleration
oblique hollow
J / s² what is that lol
well..... it could be even more stupid.... the machines could be consuming 270000 MW during one second which divided by 3600 would bring us..... 75 MWh
but thats silly
wind spade
but you have the actual MW on the machines
oblique hollow
sooo i dont think the coal gens can produce 270,000 MWs
languid estuary
Question about nuclear power. How many reactors can 1 node with a mk3 miner support using all alt recipes?
wind spade
a lot
languid estuary
I did some quick math and I get something in the region of 62/63
wind spade
not sure about exact numbers
oblique hollow
only one way to find out: build it
languid estuary
I plan to build it
But meed to figure out what buildings will be needed to support all those reactor supplies.
tulip wind
@languid estuary I'm using six nuclear reactors on one node so far.
oblique hollow
a metric kiloton
languid estuary
Up to 16 is definitely possible. I had 16 reactors running in my last save from one node
tulip wind
16 would be possible if you have enough water.
serene abyss
I'm using 12 nuclear plant from one uranium node (240/min). If you use alts, you could easily doubble/tripple that.
keen brook
WATER WATER WATER is really good for pure ingot recipes
anyways, back to screwing around with my schoolwork
wind spade
well in U2 the max was 420 reactors from 3 nodes. I assume it's somehow similar number in U3
bleak cobalt
why isnt there a pipe that transports 500m3 per minute
i ask because if you fine a pure node with a base of 240 per minute times by 2.5 from powershards you get 560m3 per minute
oblique hollow
machines can in theory output 600m³/min, but pipes are limited to 300 so 🤷
stuck stratus
same reason we don't have a belt that can handle the full 1200/m output of mk3 pure miner i'd say
oblique hollow
well mk6 belts are planned so
stuck stratus
they were, once upon a time, but nothing's guaranteed (is the assumption i've been working with anyway)
wind spade
@oblique hollow there's no confirmation that they are planned
oblique hollow
well the images exist and stuff so i assumed but oh well.
wind spade
images? never seen any
stuck stratus
i'm too lazy to check the source on the mk6 belt being buffed to 1200 ipm, if that's reliable then i'd say that is a good indication that they're planned still
(rather too lazy to make an account for a one time thing)
pine tangle
720 to 1200 is a bit of too steep of a step, on the other hand...
wind spade
source: alpha release data extraction, which was proven multiple times to be WIP and most of the things changed or got removed
stuck stratus
it's actually inline with the ratios between the other belts i feel
wind spade
@oblique hollow actually it's more like log curve
stuck stratus
if alpha info was reliable, we'd have trains doing loop de loops 😛
pine tangle
Bwah. 720 number got lodged in my head and refuse to budge. While I unlocked T7 several times, never strated acutally using it anywhere.
stuck stratus
but mk5 belts let you go nyoooom across the factory
pine tangle
Perhaps. Frustration from long distance resource transport outweigh it, multiplied by general burnout.
Actually, we do not have diagonal (on foundation) railways or I am doing something wrong?
stuck stratus
they can go diagonal, but have a lovely tendency to want to make spline curves instead
pine tangle
Oh well. Maybe I mess around with it on next save. So far it looks like I will rage quit my Dunes Factory due to Bauxite...
sand garnet
@oblique hollow anything related to future content from the wiki that isnt directly accessible ingame cannot be talked about here :)
- Its super old info
- Its not accessible right now
scarlet marsh
@wind spade what i am proposing is not 'getting rid' of waste - it is extracting useful items out of it for refinement - you would still have waste output from the process at a higher concentration
@pine tangle why is a byproduct of power generation a problem for use in recipes?
pine tangle
Power Generation as a end point in the production chain is inherently unreliable, even if you take precautions and measure it really close. The reason is simple - it cannot be fully trusted to run at full input.
Solids, mainly Petroleum Coke, are relatively mild due to easy of storage, but fuel? I feel reasonably sure at guaranteeing that it will stall at some point.
scarlet marsh
yeah, you are right - power generation here would not be the end point - the power needs to be expended if you have excess power on your grid - tier 7 allows for the construction of heat exchanges - sounds like a good way to expend power
you can think of the power as a byproduct if you want the nuclear waste - or you can think of the waste as the byproduct if you want the power - either way its just another residual that adds complexity/interest to the game similar to what liquid/solid processing add to this game
young lion
@languid estuary To your nuclear reactor question the number of reactors for one node can get way higher than 60. And I don't wanna say that too loud, since I am currently working on that factory and I don't want CoffeeStain to nerve anything there :) But the alternates like the one for uranium cells and pellets are really doing their thing.
glacial hemlock
The current limit is 94.5 Rods/min or 472.5 nuclear reactors
1.18TW. But why. You probably maxed out at 0.5TW
young lion
Simply because you can...
The goal here is kind of to have the maximum capacity, but minimum consumption. fun fact at least some patches ago: Underclock 100 constructor to 1% and your energy consumption gets rounded down to zero.
young lion
okay, yeah we only waited like for 5minutes
upbeat granite
Do refineries apply pressure/head lift?
paper mauve
I thought it was just all liquid extractors that applied the 10m headlift
I could be wrong but refineries adding 10m headlift would be news to me
vagrant knot
I recall the result being 10m headlift out of anything that "pumps/outputs" to its next target, and isn't already an auxillary pump itself
So like, a refinery would since it has direction flow and an output
but a buffer would not
paper mauve
That actually makes sense. Good to know
oblique hollow
buffers generate pressure based on how full they are
a small one can produce up to 6 m of pressure when its full
and a big one can produce up to 10 m
i justed tested fluid velocities and i can once again make an addition to my Infograph
oblique hollow
ok so, i just tested 4 liquids
They all do indeed flow at different velocities
but at the same Flow Rate
perhaps the acceleration is different
oblique hollow
yep, sorta
i calculated 4 arbitrary dimensionless numbers which we can "predent" to be viscosity. I dubbed it the Dylan Number, Dy
crap
i made a mistake
woeful skiff
I think density might be more natural. The higher the density the more a single cubic meter of the fluid weighs and the it is the weight of the fluid that the negative pressure must counteract to raise it up the pipe.
oblique hollow
actually this was tested on a flat pipe
vast copper
I'm planning for my mega base production, and I was wondering if the plastic/rubber recycling can indeed create a loop that doubles resources ?
vagrant knot
Not sure if it doubles, but it definitely bolsters
vast copper
I think the real question for me is : should I rather maximize TurboFuel prod and then use excess Fuel to produce plastic/rubber with recycling.
OR
Maximize Plastic/Rubber production and use the excess heavy oil to produce Turbo Fuel ?
Or do both ? :x
vagrant knot
Here is a link with a handy calculator for making a All Oil -> All Plastic or All Oil -> All Rubber Array using some alternative recipes
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/163sWWoxnSNXPmYBcoNbFcjIXIW05HyuSKZ8Chr1524A/edit?usp=sharing
This has 0 waste biproducts , uses 100% of the oil to produce either plastic or rubber
Had a player confirm it a week ago or so
vast copper
That's super nice thanks
So what should be prioritized between plastic and rubber for optimal prod of Nuclear rods / turbomotors with all alternate recepies unlocked for optimal end game prod ?
scarlet marsh
bibee i would recommend using the optimizer and your resource inputs to determine that
vast copper
What is the optimizer ? As for Input I have piped 3600 crude oil up to my doorstep (12*300 pipelines)
My goal is to plan for the endgame: produce as much turbomotors as possible as efficiently as possible for the Sink
vast copper
I simply need to understand which resource will be more needed between plastic and rubber, because with what DJSeras shared we can produce each with a 2:1 ratio
scarlet marsh
ok use that calculator to tell you
fallow lily
It also depends on the alts you're using.
They tend to shift the balance towards rubber.
scarlet marsh
yes that is likely true
vast copper
I can't wait for the updated Greeny calculators, as many here I imagine
I'd like to play with the alts to see how the work together, but on a complex item such as the turbomotor it's driving me nuts to do it manually ^^
scarlet marsh
@vast copper yeah i still havent figured out to build my turbomotors yet - would be nice to have a calculator to do that - open to any recommendations that you or anyone has on recipes to build?
vast copper
ficsit.info is interesting, but I don't know what's prioritized for alt selection it's automatic, seems to be a great tool, but it lacks the flexibility of Greeny's calc
right now I'm in the early mid game, but I want to build things to last in prep of the turbomotor sinking, so it's a bit of a headscratcher ^^
scarlet marsh
yeah i wish that the calculator assumptions were stated somewhere - like are resources weighted equally, etc.
and would like to be able to tweak things as well - make be able to input those weights - or have ways of selecting which alts are allowable
glacial hemlock
Other than the obvious alts, use silicone circuit boards and caterium computer, iron wire, cheap silica, electrode aluminum for turbomotor
marsh flint
Hey guys, does this game not know math or am I stupid?
I’m hoping someone could help me with this weird issue i’m having
I have 40 refineries with the residual rubber recipe set on them, all of them outputting on a mk5 belt
2 of them run on 50%
Each one produces 20 rubber a minute.
Yet the belts are backing up and overflowing
How is this possible ?
wispy kestrel
2 of them are on 50% so you got 39x100%...
marsh flint
It makes no sense at all
sudden ferry
what is backing up
rubber? resin? water? need more details fam
marsh flint
It’s like a bug or something, I went over the math so many times
Rubber is backing up
sudden ferry
and destination is ?
marsh flint
The output is overflowing
wispy kestrel
they each make 20 per min so 39x20 which is exactly 780..
sudden ferry
had an overflow sink that should overflow ?
marsh flint
I mean I was considering it
But I kinda wanna solve the issue at the source? The math is correct
wispy kestrel
is it badly backed up? or just mini hickups here and there..
sudden ferry
so the issue is
the belt is clogged but there is still free space in the conveyors?
or the destination is not getting 780 per minute
spice holly
how are you setting up your overflow
marsh flint
Overflow method
wispy kestrel
could it be that example you built it with mark 4.. and when you upgraded all the belts you forgot like 1 spot inside a splitter or something..
wispy kestrel
it could be backed up cause of mergers.. they cant flow freely through cause they wait to get in order.. but that should like only slow things down to like 778 per min instead or something miniscule..
spice holly
if it's full then I would say it's expected no?
spice holly
You have 780 items going out, 780 items going in, so the items in the belt isn't going anywhere
spice holly
and you're using overflow/manifold method to pull items out of the refineries?
marsh flint
Yep
spice holly
are all of them filled then?
marsh flint
Not sure I understand the question, but I think?
All belts are full
No belt is starved
spice holly
if you're using overflow, then when it starts running again, the machine at the start of the manifold with starts working and empties their internal storage first
sudden ferry
starving generators?
is HOR->FUEL backed up ?
spice holly
before moving to the next one, and so on.
marsh flint
They won’t empty at all
sudden ferry
ah your using fuel directly
sudden ferry
would be nice if we could look directly at your save tho
marsh flint
You guys wanna take a look at the savegame?
spice holly
not sure, i would have to check your setup, it's kinda hard to see where the problem is without seeing all of them
marsh flint
Yeah I was gonna say,
Gimme a minute, I’ll send it to both of you in private
Thanks for your help!
glacial hemlock
You can separate your fuel production from plastic and rubber production, and sink all the resins. That way you will never jam your fuel generators
Eg: 1 oil node for plastic, 1 node for rubber, 2 node for fuel / TF
sudden ferry
Issue solved.
Cause: Sinks can't support full load of mk5
dull bolt
That's good to know.
sudden ferry
don't want to spoil much on DM's but Nylla added some additional sinks and clogged went away
he has really nice pipes lol
sage olive
You only need 150 crude oil to make 10k mw, with some of the alternative.
serene abyss
I thought sinks eat away at whatever speed you feed them, as per text description (of the sink in-game)? Maybe an issue that need fixing?
sudden ferry
hmm yeah currently its reported at the QA site
spice holly
@sudden ferry can you share the link here?
sudden ferry
i did post it before, i had to look for it again just a bit
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/5e763507559bfff82343b2d8
this one is the duplicate post
but the older posts are also linked inside
vast copper
Hey gang, given the abundance of iron on the map, and specifically in the desert (where I'm setting up my mega base); is PURE IRON alt (the one with water) worth it ? I want ot maximize iron usage for coupons (Turbomotor).
oblique hollow
you add some water and get more iron for free. more free iron means you can make even MORE products to sink
all hail the Refinery
scarlet marsh
yeah pure iron is worth if you want more iron lol
it converts water to iron
but yeah you need to use a lot of iron to actually take advantage of it
left flame
Can anyone help me with balancing.
I made this https://daniel2013.github.io/satisfactory/calculator
But how do I make sure I only remove 60 fuel from the system?
if I remove more than 60, it will stop producing plastic and rubber??
vast copper
Maybe you pipe the Fuel to something that consumes 60/m and you're set ?
left flame
😦 my power is never constant
If I pump it past my plastic and rubber then feed a power station
does this mean the plastic and rubber will always get prio on feed
since they are before the fuel generator on the system?
It seems like a pretty "standard" oil build that uses water.. so I assume others have had this issue?
dry mason
Are my maths right? 15 refineries making 65 ingots is
65 x 15 = 975
And 13 constructors need 75 ingots to make 50 iron plates
13 x 50 = 650 Plates a minute?
pine tangle
Yes. Default Iron Plate is one and a half Ingots.
spice holly
how did 13 constructors translates to 75 ingots and 50 iron plates? 🤔
bleak cobalt
because for ever 3 ingots you get 2 plates
spice holly
i understand that part. I just don't get how 13 constructors only need 75 ingots. 1 constructor making iron plate requires 30 ingots/min, so 13 would be 390 ingots/min, no?
bleak cobalt
that is correct but you also have to remember over clocking
and what hes saying is that each constructor requires 75 ingots per minute
willow igloo
Is Ficsit concerned about the fact that we're mining the planet they dropped us on out hollow? Seems like eventually with our infinite ore we will just have huge empty caves in the world due to our over mining
spice holly
nope, i just didnt realize he's talking about oc numbers, that's all
bleak cobalt
kk
i think ficsit would only be concerned when efficiency has a sudden drop but other than that im sure they only care for the resources you send them as well as any research data
but this is a discussion for another chat
pine tangle
@willow igloo Real life annual Iron production is around 3 billion tons :3
willow igloo
the factory grows
pine tangle
One unit of Coal is 300 Megajoules. Real life coal has average energy density of 24 Mj per Kg, which brings as to 12,5 Kg per each unit of in-game Coal.
With most ores having roughly same model, you can calculate mass for one unit of Iron/Copper with pretty decent for napkin math accuracy :)
hard rune
Do you get more power from using the heavy oil residue alt, and the diluted packeged fuel and then into turbo fuel using the regular recipe
Or is it better to use Heavy Oil Residue alt, into heavy turbo fuel alt?
spice holly
yes for the first one
cedar mica
2,7GW from 37 Cruid oil, I belive the math is
hard rune
Using cruid oil > heavy oil residue alt > diluted packeged fuel > turbo fuel is 35% more turbo fuel than not using diluted packeged fuel?
worldly hull
Is this a good place to discuss means of quick travel?
woeful skiff
will there be math?
worldly hull
no, but would effect the meta
worldly hull
There is this youtuber I watch sometimes called "Lets Game it Out" who, in his most resent video, discovered a weird property with hyper tubes that allowed him to fly across the map in 15-20 seconds.
upbeat granite
This guy and his abominations
worldly hull
Here is a recreation of his "Player Cannon" which I've used to launch myself to the opposite side of the map. (I survived the landing via jetpack)
Here a mid-flight photo
hard rune
the hyper tube booster has been a thing for a while
paper mauve
^
glacial hemlock
@worldly hull 10 segments are not enough. You probably need 14 to 17
And if you build jelly at the landing point, you might need not a jetpack
wooden atlas
I am confused on this subject. Will someone please explain to me the differences on Impure, Normal, and Pure Mining Nodes. I always thought the type of miner used (Mk1, Mk2, Mk3, etc) was a choice as to which miner was best for matching the max of which any of the nodes in question are capable of producing. Yet, I was in a conversation with someone and I was told all the nodes produce same amount, and only thing that changes the amount is which tier of Mk Miners are used. I said that did not make sense to me, because why then would one be called Impure, Normal, or Pure. So will someone please clear up my confusion on this topic?
woeful skiff
They both matter
wind spade
miner gives bonus to mining speed, node gives bonus to mining speed
woeful skiff
there is no matching them up -- a higher tier miner will always mine more per minute than a lower tier.
and for the nodes, pure > normal > impure where pure will always produce the most per minute.
wooden atlas
So, there is or there is not a set value that an Impure Node can produce vs a Pure Node?
wind spade
miner produces 60. impure divides it by 2, pure multiplies it by 2. Mk2 multiplies it by 2, mk3 multiplies it by 4
wooden atlas
Okay So an Imure Node can only produce 30ppm? If so how can whichever miner we choose change what the purity level of a node is capable of producing: this is what I am not getting.
Impure*
spice holly
it doesn't. You just combined multiplier from both the node and your miner to get the final result. They stack multiplicatively.
So if you have impure node, with
mk1 miner = 0.5 * 1 * 60 = 30 ppm
mk2 miner = 0.5 * 2 * 60 = 60 ppm
mk3 miner = 0.5 * 4 * 60 = 120 ppm
wooden atlas
That would be mathematically impossible to achieve: unless each miner was actually breaking up each part into smaller parts. So even though all parts look the same size on the Conveyor belt I am to imagine that they are all smaller in size, the Mk3 producing the smallest since it breaks them up the most out of the Mk1, Mk2, and Mk3?
wind spade
it's just the speed at which the miner is mining, not size of parts
dry mason
why are pumps so weird some times, 20/8 = 2.5 so a pump should be placed two and a half foundations apart but the pump reads an overhead of 13.
bronze parrot
Where is the best place to advise of a bug?
spice holly
wooden atlas
I really want to understand this: yet I am still not getting it. And thank you for being patient in explaining this to me. Yet I still do not understand. So basically i am understanding that depending on what type of Node it is depicts what type of mining defecit occurs to the Miner in question doing the mining? So the type of mining node (Impure vs Normal vs Pure) depending on what purity level it is limits the miner being used?
spice holly
the miner and purity level just determines the throughput of ores you're getting from your resource node. That's it.
bronze parrot
thanks
wooden atlas
What brought this topic up for me was the appearance of wasting power putting an Mk3 on an Impure Node, and that an Impure Node cannot produce enough to keep up with what an Mk3 can produce. and is therefore better to use a lower tier miner to match what the Node in question is capable of producing.
wind spade
that's not how it works at all
miner | impure | normal | pure
mk1 | 30 | 60 | 120
mk2 | 60 | 120 | 240
mk3 | 120 | 240 | 480
What is it then, that keeps the Mk3 from getting 480ppm on an impure node? (other than thats just the way they designed the game) Its the info thats missing from this mathematical puzzle thats driving me crazy
And thank you for taking time to respond kindly and not losing patience with me.
spice holly
i just told you the math on my post above.
wind spade
easy. Bigger mk can mine faster, but the vein isn't pure, so it needs to mine more rock to get the same amount of iron
wooden atlas
I appreciate all your efforts. Yet none of what I am seeing is helping me to understand why/how an Mk3 Miner is incapable of producing 480ppm on an impure Node. Saying:
mk1 miner = 0.5 * 1 * 60 = 30 ppm
mk2 miner = 0.5 * 2 * 60 = 60 ppm
mk3 miner = 0.5 * 4 * 60 = 120 ppm.. is a foriegn language I do not understand.
spice holly
are you asking from a math standpoint or a game design standpoint? lol
wind spade
look at the table above. Check mk3 miner. Check impure node. Result = 120 items/min
wooden atlas
[repeating yourself] the result (sum?) of a mathematical problem is not helping me to understand how and why those figures are being arrived at as the conclusion. I am not attempting to understand philosophy here or or dance around with some pedantic banter. I just feel like i am being spoken at and not to. Then again, I do have a TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) and am sure that is causing a lot of my lack of understanding here. I wouldnt expect any untrained layman to have the required communication skills in explaining things to someone mentally slower than others. Yet i am grateful for the efforts you gave in responding to me. Thank you.
tranquil helm
does the fuel generator fuel usage scale linear with overclock? that's what the display suggests.
cobalt grail
is there a calculator?
sudden ferry
@tranquil helm all power consumption and generation is on a curve
Though it is flat based on the fuel consumed
spice holly
@tranquil helm don't use the number on the overclock, use the MW number at the top left
fierce ruin
@cobalt grail What do you mean with calculator? Are you talking about https://satisfactory-calculator.com/de/production-planner?
pastel flax
@wooden atlas each resource node purity has a set amount of ore per minute it can output,
Impure nodes start at 30
Normal at 60
Pure at 120
These are the values if you build a Mk 1 miner on them.
You can get it higher by building a better miner on the node, or\and adding power shards to the miner.
Given the same Mk or Miner & number of power shards, you'll never be able to get the same amount of ore from different purities of resource node.
fierce ruin
@wind spade As you see, an upgrade to a better miner always doubles your production no matter what. What the values (that are doubled) are is decided by the node purity.
You begin with an Mk1. On an impure node this gives you 30 iron ore/minute. Now you upgrade. The 30 you had before now double to 60 (30 * 2 right). When you now upgrade again it doubles again (60 * 2). That gets you 120
Where is the problem
pastel flax
Greeny knows how node purity, miner Mk, and power shards work, its PianoSniper that was having issues understanding.
(s)he seemed to think you could get the same amount of ore per minute from a node reguardless of its purity,
fierce ruin
I mean you could
Mk1 + pure = 120
Mk2 + normal = 120
Mk3 + impure = 120
But that's the only way to get the same out of 3 different quality nodes.
You can also do
Mk1 + normal = 60
Mk2 + impure = 60
AND
Mk 2 + pure = 240
Mk3 + normal = 240
I think that's it, there's no other overlap
pastel flax
I said given the same Mk Miner & #of power shards.
Yeah you can mix and match to make them equal, but that would get you less maximum possible.
calm condor
do splitters always split in equal amounts?
or does it depend on the demand of the connection?
for example,if i am attaching a splitter to a merger and an assembler, the assembler is making rotors using 100 screw/min.
and am feeding the splitter with 120 screws/min
will teh splitter give the assembler 100 and the merger 20?
short swift
Yes
pastel flax
depends on how many items are going into the splitter, & the speed of the belts coming out of it.
if all belts going out are the same, then the splitter will try to output to each of them equally, if one backs up, it'll output more to the others
glacial hemlock
@wooden atlas just accept the fate that impure resource nodes are bad, and in a sense that you will still need them despite they are poor.
Power, you should be able to produce a lot of power by the time you owns some Mk2 and Mk3 miners. And they use negligible amount of power
wind spade
@fierce ruin why did you @ me? 😄 I know exactly how it works
glacial hemlock
Since you avoid math, then let me summarize:
Mk1 miner on impure: very bad
Mk2 miner on impure: bad
Mk3 miner on impure: ok
Mk1 miner on normal: bad
Mk2 miner on normal: ok
Mk3 miner on normal: good
Mk1 miner on pure: ok
Mk2 miner on pure: good
Mk3 miner on pure: very good.
and just substitute good, bad, etc with numbers if you wish
The game works like this, and there is no reason to understand how they work. Just accept the numbers given by the game mechanics
crystal delta
@glacial hemlock "drops mic and walks away"
ornate zodiac
I get that it's not really math and meta, but there's nothing mic-drop worthy nor community spirit about being an ass
mental fossil
MK1 miner on impure node
standard
30 per/min 100%
1 power shard
45 per/min 150%
2 power shard
60 per/min 200%
3 power shard
75 per/min 250%
Mk2 miner on impure node
standard
60 per/min 100%
1 power shard
90 per/min 150%
2 power shard
120 per/min 200%
3 power shard
150 per/min 250%
MK3 miner on impure node
standard
120 per/min 100%
1 power shard
180 per/min 150%
2 power shard
240 per/min 200%
3 power shard
300 per/min 250%
weary path
@wooden atlas the purity of the node implies that, for the same amount of material extracted from the ground, more or less of that material is useful ore, depending on the purity. In a pure node all the material you mine is useful. An impure deposit means that some of it will be useless dirt, which supposedly is thrown out. You don't see that represented within the game, because it's beyond its scope. So it's being simplified to the numbers people already posted. I hope that makes sense.
So in a way, the miner mk3 achieves 480ppm on an impure node, but 360 of those are "inert" materials which are discarded and never shown to the player.
I could see a mod in the future implementing this as a feature, with ore refineries sifting out dirt etc, increasing the complexity and maybe depth of the game.
ornate zodiac
already somewhat represented with some of the alt recipies
weary path
Indeed! Inb4 ore refineries with dirt as byproduct :D
oblique hollow
and what to do with dirt? sink it?
wind spade
considering how people hate storing waste, I can't imagine the hate from storing dirt
ornate zodiac
a low-impact mod could just rebalance and introduce new recipes without new buildings
given we now have the resource sink waste is less of a problem (at the cost of power)
oblique hollow
imagine if they didnt accept dirt lmao
"Ficsit cannot extract any useful data from dirt"
wind spade
@ornate zodiac waste can't be sinked
oblique hollow
dirt would probably only be useful if we get botanics
weary path
Dirt can become a building material. Let your imaginations fly free
ornate zodiac
or you just have a dirt -> concrete recipe of some sort
sand garnet
I dont really feel llike dirty works as a building material in an industrial setup
oblique hollow
with clay probably. but pure dirt is not very good for building
weary path
Could be the reason miners automatically refine the ore
oblique hollow
yep
and why smelters dont output rock too
and why the "washed ore" recipes exist
ornate zodiac
dirt is used in a lot of building, actually, but you don't just "use" dirt, you probably process it
sand garnet
refining it is done by the miner already
oblique hollow
if not refining its filtering it out
trim oar
found a way to "destroy" it. its going beneath the map now
oblique hollow
i dont believe it
trim oar
you can
sand garnet
yeah you can just clip under the map if you want
trim oar
i came here via travel tube
if you are good enough with the placement of tho entrance you can go beneath the map everywhere
there ya go
took me just 5 min lol
@oblique hollow do you beleave it now?
end storage
oblique hollow
well its not destroyed just way out of reach so i still feel lied to
glacial hemlock
There are 2 ways to destroy it: save edit or lizard doggo
ornate zodiac
what we need is rocket pads that let you fire your nuclear waste into the sun
trim oar
lizard doggo is murdering and how to save edit it? you mean the calculator? that dont works anymore
storm marsh
how can lizard doggo get rid of it?
sand garnet
lizard doggo has an inventory slot
you can put stuff in it and then kill the doggo to also destroy the inventory item
sand garnet
no they just spawn
sand garnet
dunno
trim oar
i cant wait for the mk2 pipes
wind spade
if we get them
pastel flax
if vanilla doesn't get em, modders will add em
oblique hollow
mk 2 pipes and an update to the pressure system, hopefully
flow is ok but pressure is still garbage
pastel flax
how so?
wind spade
what's the issue with pressure?
oblique hollow
inconclusive behaviour when observing pumps that are connected to buffers
pastel flax
got pictures of the setup?
Maybe we can troubleshoot it for you
modern spindle
hey, is there a calculator for new AWESOME sink points?
wind spade
wiki has a list
oblique hollow
just hook a pipe up to a buffer and a pump right in front of it
facing the buffer
so pumping in
modern spindle
I mean the new points needed for the n-th coupon
pastel flax
would still like a picture just to be sure
oblique hollow
i can draw you one since i dont have one right now
pastel flax
drawn picture won't have exact placement, there's almost always nuances that get lost in translation
wind spade
you don't need pumps if you are not going up
oblique hollow
buffers generate backwards pressure @wind spade
spice holly
what inconclusive behaviour did you find?
oblique hollow
yes that too. i know
but the pressure can still stall it
its worse when the pump is in vertical arrangement
lemme get a picture
in this case the backward pressure situation is actually something to take into consideration
glacial hemlock
I can't see a use of buffer other than train -related setup
oblique hollow
it doesnt matter where or when you use them
fact is the pressure numbers are useless
glacial hemlock
I don't even use a single pump by the time i automated turbomotor. Unless the pumps get a buff
oblique hollow
truth be told the "we apply 20 m pressure (which itself is absolutely stupid, pressure isnt in meters)" is pretty boring
trim oar
20 meters uplift is too little. 40 meters should be normal
oblique hollow
id like to overclock and underclock them for variable pressure. or not even clocking, just using different ammounts of power without shards
Like a "how much pressure would you like" slider
and it maxes out at 50 or so
also, having flowrate be independent from pressure is..... unexciting. i know pressure is just "vertical rise" in this game but...
sand garnet
its a game, it also isnt super realistic which makes it actually playable for the majority instead of adding unnecessary complexity
pine tangle
The issue with Pressure that there is essentially no pressure simulated.
glacial hemlock
@oblique hollow meter is a unit of pressure, in case if you don't know.
mmHg, kPa, PSI, to name a few.
glacial hemlock
it might not true at your current experience, but in the engineering market that is a fact. If you want to purchase a pump, you could simply said, I want 3000Litres/min at 50meters high, and so on.
oblique hollow
those engineers know that the SI unit for pressure is pascals.
no wait, pascal is a derivative
glacial hemlock
haha.
We call these 'meters' pump head.
Means how much water height can a pump pushed upward, at the described flow rate.
oblique hollow
N/m² or pa, yep, thats the units
head lift is okay by me, but pressure not so much
glacial hemlock
yes, p = h (ro) g, it is just turning (ro) * g into a constant which we don't care about.
oblique hollow
thats just gravitational pressure
scarlet marsh
@oblique hollow pressure can be measure in a reported length (rhogh)
rho * g * h
its pretty standard
spice holly
totally not an expert on this, but I found this
Water pressure is a measure of the force that gets the water through our mains and into your pipes.
It is measured in 'bars' - one bar is the force needed to raise water to a height of 10 metres.
on https://www.thameswater.co.uk/help-and-advice/no-water-or-low-pressure/understanding-water-pressure and https://victoriaplum.com/blog/posts/understanding-water-pressure
scarlet marsh
and makes more sense to use for designing real piping systems
dont need to be an expert to understand water pressure, folks understood it long time ago
oblique hollow
its still wrong to say "the unit of pressure is meters"
since rho and g HAVE units too
scarlet marsh
the unit of pressure is rho * g * h
oblique hollow
headlift is perfectly fine by me
oblique hollow
and do you know the unit of rho and g?
scarlet marsh
so the only one that matters is h
well what liquid are you using tells you rho
and what planet/elevation tells you g
oblique hollow
rho is mostly kg/m³
scarlet marsh
on earth these are constant for real piping systems
so head height can be used to specify
scarlet marsh
how do you think pressure is measured?
commonly, the height difference is measured
oblique hollow
manometers is just one way
oblique hollow
also F / A
oblique hollow
i very well know that for a single type of liquid, we can say rho times g is constant. doesnt mean they dont have units though
scarlet marsh
yes - so you can report pressure in height difference - which makes sense
the unit of 20 m tells you how much pump pressure is needed
oblique hollow
yes, indirectly
scarlet marsh
directly lol
thats like say i have 5 boxes of apples, each box contains 12 of them
oblique hollow
if you tell me the normal unit of pressure is meters i will not agree. in the case of this game, eh okay, but in normal circumstances, no
scarlet marsh
and if i only say 5 boxes - then you know how many apples there are already - it is direct
it is normal to measure pressure in height differential, yes, by reporting a length measurement
oblique hollow
theres also piezoelectric crystals
scarlet marsh
look at any pump spec online
oblique hollow
its still disgusting to look at
spice holly
the game actually doesn't say that "meters is the unit of pressure"
oblique hollow
if people are fine with it eh
spice holly
oblique hollow
for pumps it says "applies 20 units of pressure" or something
scarlet marsh
it sounds like you dont have a strong understanding of fluid pressure vs gravitational force
it should be clear
spice holly
scarlet marsh
yes but clearly that is what it means
im sure they could correct the typo if anyone really cared
oblique hollow
i know you can measure certain things in meters. that doesnt mean its the normal unit we as humans agreed upon. Everywhere else its bar or pa or atm or even N/m²
if pipe engineers wish to use m, fine, if its convenient
scarlet marsh
it is very normal to measure pressure in height of liquids
lengths of liquids are UNITS of pressure
mm of Hg / m of water
look up any pressure conversion calculator
it is a normal unit that is agreed upon - you just are not familiar with it
oblique hollow
in which circles. pipe engineering? i know no mechanical engineer that uses m for pressure
oblique hollow
thats what i said the entire time
scarlet marsh
rho * g * h
oblique hollow
yesyesyes stop with that formula
scarlet marsh
i dont understand why you dont understand
that is just gravitational pressure caused by height of a column of liquid
if you know the height - you know the pressure
oblique hollow
i understood that part long ago. that is not the issue.
the way you wrote things just made it seem like you said "m is the unit of pressure"
scarlet marsh
ok then you understand how the pressure is FULLY DEFINED by stated the height and can be used as a pressure unit
ok
20 m of water is the unit
and it makes sense in the game
i guess if you wanted to complicate things you could make some liquids more difficult to pump - but not sure that would be a good game mechanic
is that what you are saying?
oblique hollow
perhaps saying manometric pressure unit is better
scarlet marsh
saying length of x liquid is a pressure unit
oblique hollow
because thats what torr (mmHg) and meters sea water are
oblique hollow
funny enough medicine and diving and vacuum systems are one of the few places left where these units are used. Its not preferred anymore
knotty basalt
It’s to make it more relatable to the average person
Their walls have a measurement in m
scarlet marsh
i mean of building a dam or something of 1000 m height
its easy to just say you need 1000 m of water pressure and relatable
scarlet marsh
ok
oblique hollow
also mmHg is harder to use since its harder to convert into a metric unit
scarlet marsh
diving stuff you might say you might design to withstand 200 m of head pressure or something
oblique hollow
i think atmospheres is used there more often now
scarlet marsh
well again mm Hg is used bc that is how pressure can actually be measured
oblique hollow
the problem is relying on this is not possible in my field since fluid collumns are not accurate enough since temperature is a big influence
also unit differences is why NASA lost a spacecraft
scarlet marsh
yeah makes sense, so how is pressure measured?
oblique hollow
in our field? usually capacitive sensors, piezoelectric sensors, sometimes normal gauges..... mostly we receive a voltage and use metric units to prevent conversion errors
scarlet marsh
ok