or you have a backup of your recipe file :D
#math-and-meta
untold crown
wind spade
@elfin spoke what do you mean old alternate recipes? U2?
it's versioned with git, so I can restore any version
untold crown
neat
elfin spoke
I meant before the last patch
wind spade
I have them theoretically, but why do you need them? I can give you list of changes
elfin spoke
That could be really cool, the lack of numbers in the patch notes really annoys me
patent bough
so. can confirm from testing. using sulfuric acid byproduct output from uranium processing to feed back into input works just fine because math.
basically underclock your acid production to account for the byproduct
and it will, like any manifold setup, balance over time
same could probably be done with alumina solution though i havent tested that
(mostly because i am transporting my alumina solution by train and using the water byproduct for other stuff down the line)
err that is the way that alumina solution creation uses water and then aluminum stuff later has water as a byproduct
i mean not to mention how alumina solution has silica as a byproduct and aluminum ingots need silica
untold crown
is it intended that you loose one fluid container by unpacking heavy oil residue?
untold crown
yeah me neither but i just looked at them
oil and water are 1 to 1 but heavy oil residue is not
patent bough
it's probably an oversight
from what i saw from packaging recipes, packaging consumes 1 empty canister and unpackaging produces 1
rancid lark
ya, I'd bug that
untold crown
ok then i'll report it
wind spade
@untold crown seems like issue, I already reported it to devs
untold crown
ah ok
wind spade
but reporting it to QA site is probably good as well
patent bough
ideally, if you didn't actually need to do anything with the packages but transport them, you'd be able to feed the canister output back into the input and, after initial plastic input, simply be recycling used canisters.
untold crown
yeah thats what i thought
patent bough
(alternately you could just feed the used canisters into a sink lol)
wind spade
@patent bough there's issue with one of the recipe where they forgot to change output value
they doubled almost everything apart from that one number
wind spade
so I'm like 99% sure it's a bug and it should otherwise work like you said
untold crown
its reported to QA now
open willow
is turbofuel the best option here?
paper mauve
Those silicone circuit boards are amazing
That's what I'd go for first unless you REALLY need turbo fuel right away @open willow
open willow
ok, ill choose that, I haven't even gotten into fuel so I don't need a super compacted version of it
paper mauve
Then yeah silicone circuit board is your best bet. Way better than the standard recipe
open willow
plus ive got 3 oil nodes right next to my base so oil is not a problem, so i can reserve more plastic for other things and just use silicone
what other uses does silica have?
open willow
fixed
open willow
yeah, i forgot about that
open willow
thank you!
so the only real other use is in aluminum, that choice makes sense, thanks!
wind spade
though you also need to consider quartz usages
but yeah it's probably the best recipe from those
nobelisk is shit and iron wire is good when you're running out of copper
oilless circuit boards are pretty good choice
boreal cloak
#shamelessplug
wind spade
well it's the only site that I know which I can show
wiki doesn't have all the info/updated info
boreal cloak
true
wind spade
and I don't want to copy-paste the recipes from the site
open willow
didn't know this site existed, this will make things so much easier
boreal cloak
greeny made it
green ravine
I use both greeny and https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/items
open willow
yeah I kind of guessed that because of ya know, his name being in the website title....
paper mauve
So @wind spade seeing as they lowered the power requirements for refineries, what's the surplus MJ if we refine the HOR to petroleum coke and burn it in coal gens?
cedar mica
Coke burns at 25/m. So if the recipe is 120/m now, thats 4.8 coal gens or 360MW worth
paper mauve
Right but the refineries themselves use power so I was asking what the net positive power would be in MJ
Per coke
upbeat tide
Basic math assuming a 300/min supply of coke
25/min means 12 coal gens
150MW for 5 refineries
120 for 6 water extractors
900 MW made
600MW for the 20 refineries to make the HOR
10 plastic
10 rubber
glacial hemlock
Stitched iron plate + iron wire is more efficient than bolted plate.
Some recipes are bad on their own, but good when combined.
upbeat tide
So yea coke can keep the refineries running but thats about it
Uses 870MW out of 900
paper mauve
So it's worth burning if you feel like setting it up. But if you have a decent headroom of power and feel lazy then just sink it. Gotcha
upbeat tide
Issue is it takes many refineries to make HOR and even smaller quantanties would have a similar result id guess
Actually I forgot to add in the oil pumps
So yea total draw would be over 900MW in the end to make and use 300m3 of HOR and convert it
glacial hemlock
300HO now means 600 fuel! Woot
upbeat tide
Still better to use it to make coke n eventually alu imo
Unless you have more than one oil field
blazing yew
HOR is?
upbeat tide
Heavy oil residue
neat stratus
quick question. Whats the point for "production" and "consumption" for power? they always seem to be the same
wind spade
@paper mauve
coke = 180 MJ, 15 MJ per coke produced (+30 MJ for water), so 135 MJ surplus per coke, 1 HOR = 4 coke, so 1 HOR = 540 MJ surplus
fuel = 600 MJ, 45 MJ per fuel produced, so 555 MJ surplus per fuel, 1 HOR = 2/3 fuel, so 1 HOR = 370 MJ surplus
so coke is better than fuel, if you are talking about HOR refining
if you want to calculate with the alternate diluted packaged fuel, then:
you need 30 MJ per packaged fuel produced + 10 MJ for water + 30 MJ for packaging + 15 MJ for unpackaging which is 85 MJ, so each fuel gives you 515 MJ surplus, though 1 HOR = 2 fuel, so from 1 HOR you get 1030 MJ surplus, making it the best way for refining HOR
storm ingot
Greeny, HOR?
wind spade
heavy oil residue
storm ingot
aah
paper mauve
awesome thanks so much for the thorough response @wind spade !
viscid raft
Anyone know the guy (KirkMcDonald) who makes
https://github.com/KirkMcDonald/satisfactory-calculator
Or rather how to reach him?
I'd like to try and contribute/upkeep his project for U3 if he isn't intending too.
Looks like he has been pretty inactive on github for a while
wind spade
don't know if he's on any discord
viscid raft
reddit?
honest willow
check factorio community, he's big there
wind spade
don't know, I talk with him via DMs on discord
and he said he'll be updating his project sooner or later
viscid raft
👋
clear citrus
I don't suppose there's an easy convenient way to know the effective thing/per minute transport you get out of using a tractor/truck/train without waiting around to manually time the trips and count the stacks?
gleaming ermine
Started up a new game recently to speedrun early game and use new strategies late game... Thoughts on 4h:30m to 375MW coal power with zero biomass reliance?
@wind spade Comment on why trucks are unreliable?
wind spade
they don't follow the recorded path 100% and may get stuck behind a rock/tree and/or run out of fuel
gleaming ermine
Ah. Would you say they're reliable on paved paths?
wind spade
same issue, although a bit less probable
still, providing fuel is PITA and it's also hard to put multiple on a single track
untold crown
- sometimes they just like to teleport to 0/0/0
storm ingot
The main thing to having them reliable is not to full speed corners, and always ensure you have independent lanes for opposite direction
wind spade
I usually do trains on longer distances and belts on shorter distances
gleaming ermine
Trains are such a nuisance to unlock without making silly amounts of infrastructure to tear down later... x.x
storm ingot
The biggest issue in placing routes comes from if your trucks/tractors hit eachother
wind spade
why would you tear down trains?
gleaming ermine
Nonono, I mean getting to tier 6 without having to deconstruct and rebuild everything to use trains is a pain
wind spade
you don't have to deconstruct everything tho
gleaming ermine
Maybe not everything, but a lot
wind spade
or none
gleaming ermine
I would guess that depends on starting positions
wind spade
that depends on what you build
but trains are good for bringing in products to storage from factories on the other side of the map
and you usually don't expand much before trains anyway
gleaming ermine
Perhaps I am using a strange approach due to factorio experience, minimizing down time by always building and expanding
Or perhaps that's normal, I don't know
Trains never seem to work with my already-built factories
wind spade
well that's fine, but you usually don't expand that much to even need trucks or trains in the first place, since most of the stuff you need is available in your starting location
clear citrus
regarding trucks hitting each other, just don't have colliding routes, or multiple on the same route.
If your routes must cross, build a bridge over one for the other.
wind spade
sometimes one truck won't be enough to keep the required throughput
clear citrus
Was checking out the various online calculators pinned here.
Man why are all calculating from top down. I'd much rather use one that goes bottom up.
That is, they are all being like "in order to make this many thing/min, mine this much ore/min" with over/underclocked miners
and I want to see "with a (insert Mk.) miner on (insert purity) node, you will get this much ore/min, which allows you to make this many thing/min"
wind spade
then you haven't checked the consumption tool on my site
(although it's not yet updated for U3)
it's literally about "how much X can I make from Y resources"
clear citrus
then you've made the only calclator I'd actually find useful
wind spade
a lot of people don't check my site much and don't know I have more than 1 tool 😄
(I have 7 + map)
swift panther
You finish updating everything?
wind spade
hardly lol. The old site will stay on U2, for U3 I only have item browser so far (but I'm getting pretty close to have at least some calculator)
here's the item browser for U3 https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev/
clear citrus
honestly though I don't understand why these other calculators were made only top down
wind spade
because it's way easier than the other way
(at least it was for U2)
because you could just pick the recipe needed, check ingredients and go down through the tree
if you're going from bottom to up, you need to first go from top to bottom, find the ratio of raw materials that are required per item, then max the materials until you hit whatever material is blocking you and then go through the tree again multiplying everything
clear citrus
but like, is anyone really thinking "Hmm, I want to make 20 computers a minute" and building to reach that?
I feel like everyone is going "oh boy I found a pure copper next to pure oil, I want to make the max possible computers/min from this"
wind spade
and that also assumes fixed set of recipes
afaik most people do think that way, since they know aproximately how much they are using for building/research
if you were a calculator author, you'd choose the easier way as well imo
also, my consumption tool goes even one step futher and if you pick multiple recipes for one item, it chooses the best combination to max the product
clear citrus
especially now that we have the sink, since overproduction is now useful
sonic palm
can someone make a very complex but optimized oil refinery and relations chart
wind spade
@sonic palm you have two byproducts: HOR and resin. You can convert resin to rubber/plastic/fabric and HOR to coke/fuel. Rest is choosing the recipes you want depending on what you're producing
I don't have time to create a chart, but you can check recipes here https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev/
sonic palm
Whats HOR
wind spade
heavy oil residue
sonic palm
yeah i figured that out and realized how tired and dumb I am right now
clear citrus
only one of those things is temporary 🙃
honest willow
is it better to use the HOR alternate for turbo fuel or the diluted fuel route?
wind spade
I think best is diluted fuel -> turbofuel
clear citrus
did you disable your consumption tool while working on U3?
wind spade
I didn't, why?
clear citrus
won't show me anything.
wind spade
hm, weird. can you show your setup? (you can just press share on top and send the link)
clear citrus
lemme try setting it to something super basic
ok I got it to show making plates then it showed what I was looking for the first time
Not sure why it didn't work the first time but so long as it works in the end
wind spade
if you manage to "break" it again, just send me the link, so I can check it
but usually that's because you didn't have the resources to make the product (e.g. missing coal or oil) or you didn't pick the alternate recipes for compacted coal and/or turbofuel when needed
clear citrus
Now here's the big question:
Is there a way my tech illiterate eyes are failing to see for me to set it up to assume a given item in the production chain is being supplied from somewhere else, and show me what I can get without having to make that part in this chain?
unborn ermine
I love the added balance changes for oil, my turbofuel setup creates fabric and diluted fuel packages from "waste".
If I wanted to, instead of sinking my fuel when full, I can send that 15m³/min fuel to recycle some garbage plastic if need be 😄
wind spade
@clear citrus you can put that item in "input" section
clear citrus
I suppose I could just plug it in with a number of 9999999 and it just defaults to the limits of everything else.
Perfect.
wind spade
yeah
you can open the "input" tab on the result screen and see which resource you're blocked by
green color = 100% usage (blocking)
yellow color = 1-99% usage (some leftover)
red color = unused
clear citrus
I didn't get very far with update 2 before swapping to experimental for u3, but I got far enough that when I started my new save the first thing I did was dedicate a pure iron node entirely to screws
wind spade
I'm working on the U3 tool, but it'll take some time unfortunately
clear citrus
well the u2 is fine for any recipe that hasn't changed, no?
wind spade
yeah, but like 99% of them changed afaik
maybe not that much, but the rebalance was pretty massive
clear citrus
well I did say I wasn't very far in, but the only changes I've noticed are water for coal, copper sheets for electronics, and the entirely new things ofc
clear citrus
so is it probably best I don't use any of the calculators for now lol
wind spade
yeah, probably 😄
clear citrus
hands down my favorite most hated bottleneck is belt speed
when you just can't put enough /min into a machine
wind spade
underclocking for the win
clear citrus
yea but the next machine wants the full output of the first one lol, it's just waiting for the better belt.
It's an issue that sometimes comes up specifically because I outsource parts of chains to separate factories.
My first space part factory could make x/min things based on the premise rotors were being provided, and for the rotors screws were provided.
well you seem experty, tell me, in your opinion, is it worth having (a) dedicated screw factory(ies) or would you just make them where needed?
wind spade
this is more of a personal opinion, but I generally prefer having all factories separated and not chained
clear citrus
I can translate that sentence to mean either answer to my question
wind spade
so if I need e.g. reinforced iron plates, I make a factory that produces those from ores nearby
and ship them to storage
and then if I need e.g. modular frames, I make a dedicated factory for them and even though they need reinforced iron plates, I don't take them from storage, but I make then in the new factory as well
clear citrus
Ah, so you like to make each factory a single step factory.
Like you have buildings that only smelt or then ship it to mass storage, and so forth
wind spade
no, not that
clear citrus
woop, responded to fast
wind spade
I have a building that makes final product from raw ores
imo it has a lot of advantages
clear citrus
Back on u2, I had started with self contained factories, but everything wanted so many screws
wind spade
expandability is easy, as you can just copy the building and place near (or improve the existing one), you don't have to calculate/remember your inputs and outputs from central storage
etc etc.
languid estuary
hello greeny, have you updated the site to include the changed recipies in the new update for EXP?
clear citrus
I've yet to make any sort of centralized storage.
My screw factory, currently, feeds into 2 industrial storages right outside it, then screws go from those directly to factories that need to be fed screws
those other factories have containers at their location
I've been getting the impression that most players like to send everything or almost everything to one central area though
wind spade
yeah, but while it can work, it's harder to manage. It's easy to box yourself in if you use trains, it's also hard to allocate all the space for it (unless you build skybases on giant floating platforms, which I find disgusting) and when you want to expand something, it's usually super hard, since it's encased in the middle of other production lines (unless you planned really well)
in the begining, even if you do separated factories, your starting factory will be probably in one place or connected to nearby nodes anyway, so it's not a big deal
clear citrus
Personally I like to set up every factory, whatever it's making, in perfect balance with no clocking, then when I would "expand" I put the same amount in power cells in each machine, which maintains the balance.
Occasionally that balance is intentionally offset to fill an overflow container with something I don't feel like I need a dedicated factory for, with a sink overflow too.
wind spade
just a heads up, not sure if you know, but it's better to just build more machines rather than overclock them
clear citrus
yea, but then you have to do that, figuring out how much more of each step to add.
That said, when I get a new level of miner, I tear down a wall and make more machines.
Maintaining the idea of pre-clock balance.
.....although tbh I usually never finish building walls.
I make the floor, make the door wall and conveyor hole wall, set up all the machines, and never get around to filling in the rest of the wall lol
I guess the real question is that if I maintained the plan to ship screws in for all factories, how many dedicated screw factories on pure nodes will I have at the end
well Greeny thanks for taking up your own time to make the more useful but apparently harder calculator for those of us too lazy to keep doing all the math ourselves
wind spade
yeah np. I kinda want the consumption tool for U3 as well, but statistics show that it's used way less as the production tool, so I'll probably have that first
clear citrus
You realize though the sink might change that equatoin
overproduction having a use and all
wind spade
the new tool will work with byproducts as well
meaning if you have some, it'll tell you
you decide then how to deal with them
clear citrus
oh no it's not about byproducts, it's about there no longer being a reason to underclock.
You might only need 50 thing/min, but if you can make 100/min with the node you make all 100 and send the extra to sink
so people will be thinking bottom up a lot more
paper mauve
when doing the manifold method is it best to use the fastest belt you have or only what you need to supply the input?
clear citrus
it doesn't ultimately make a difference.
your starting delay will be slightly faster but you get the same result
wind spade
I'm too tired to make the calculations behind it now, sorry. But the difference isn't that big
not even sure if it's faster or slower tho
paper mauve
good enough for me thanks
wind spade
yes, you send more items to the futher machines, but it also takes more time for the first machine to fill
paper mauve
makes sense
so it might actually be beneficial to use a faster belt say halfway down the line or so just to saturate the further machines slightly faster
I know ultimately it doesn't matter, but just thinking out loud
wind spade
I think all of these microoptimalization wouldn't gain much in the end, like 5% max (but that's a wild guess)
clear citrus
in the end it gains none. the factory fully starts up in 3 minutes instead of 5 but nothing beyond those 2 minutes is gained
...but also, with all resources effectively infinite, why not use the best belt
wind spade
I have the simulation at https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/machine-fill which doesn't work with belt tiers tho
it assumes all belts are "infinite fast"
but from what I heard the estimations it gave were pretty decent
quick gorge
You really know how to sell yourself.
glacial hemlock
I have just worked it out. Given an oil node with output 300oil/min, if all oil is used for power generation, then it maxes out its efficiency at around nett 3500MW per oil node with 44% efficiency. All other way of making fuel will produce lesser net power.
wind spade
I'd happily link any other tools that back my estimations
the issue is that there are none other @quick gorge
quick gorge
"I see no God up here"
"Other then me"
clear citrus
That would make him/her the 2nd math god in my life
blazing yew
@quick gorge wdym sell yourself?
reef turtle
Ah, hello.
wind spade
oh hey there
if you missed it, there was a guy offering you help with updating tools to U3
reef turtle
So, yes, I intend to update my calculator at some point.
Yeah, I was just seeing that.
wind spade
@viscid raft that's the answer for you ^
blazing yew
@wind spade how far along is the stuff with U3
viscid raft
awesome
reef turtle
Based on what I've seen of the new recipes, it will probably involve pulling over some of the linear programming code from my Factorio tool.
But I have yet to really dig into the U3 recipe graph.
wind spade
@blazing yew currently finishing visualization, then I have a lot of UI stuff to do before first prototype will be tested
wind spade
my tools are all that have greeny in URL
other tools are made by other people
though I'm planning to change to a different domain soon
quick gorge
Sell yourself is normally used is the context of getting a job. Sell yourself to get a job, you are the product, are you better then the other people wanting the job?
wind spade
I see
quick gorge
The tools are products you're selling...
wind spade
for free 😄
blazing yew
Who’s the dev of the satisfactory.calculator
wind spade
that'll be Anthor, if you mean satisfactory-calculator
blazing yew
Yeah
quick gorge
But the other calcs and other people's tools are the same product but different brands...
I ain't being urban dictionary
blazing yew
Omg this dude.
quick gorge
You asked.
blazing yew
Condescend much?
clear citrus
I mean you can't really "sell" yourself if there's no price
but that's probably overly literal
fallow lily
After doing my own math for my turbo motor factory, I'm really looking forward to having greeny's calculators available.
blazing yew
@pulsar stratus when you get a chance DM me please.
quick gorge
You asked, I gave you it.
And I thought the term selling yourself was like well known.
I've heard it in a lot of media ffs
wind spade
well I'm not a native speaker and I don't really read/watch much media
quick gorge
Like "don't sell yourself short"
pulsar stratus
@blazing yew about?
fossil hazel
anybody have any designs for a stator constructer?
paper mauve
Can I just say that I absolutely love how the production of 10 modular frames per minute using the standard recipe requires exactly 240 iron ore. I had to double check my math cause I just couldn't believe it lol. Mk2 Miner on a pure iron node, no overclock and bam, your cooking 🙂
swift panther
Looks like cult is just being a dickhead
quick gorge
How? Someone asked something and I explained... Jesus.
crude girder
@wind spade yo im back
pale jetty
Like "don't sell yourself short"
@quick gorge didn't know slavery is still a thing 😮
scarlet marsh
everyone is getting paid
oblique hollow
in coupons
scarlet marsh
everyone needs to earn a livign
quick gorge
How many coupons you get an hour?
oblique hollow
all of them
quick gorge
At least 20
pale jetty
of course we are getting paid
and we don't sell any humans here 
well except for interns, i don't pay those
quick gorge
We don't speak of the interns.
wind spade
only internally
oblique hollow
Interns don't exist
warm wren
Have we decided which is the 'best' reinforced plates are yet? 
For me it seems to come down to how many I need for a particular purpose.
glacial hemlock
if you don't have power crisis, then iron wire+stitched plate, else bolted recipes are generally space saving and is a quick boost.
quick gorge
Space saving vs resource effectiveness.
limpid hamlet
So i set up getting 700 iron ingots p/m only didn't really thought of what to do with it. Suggestions on how you guys calculate it? Work down from end products or work up
empty hemlock
if you look into the pinned messages there is a couple of calculators you can use for that to help you. the production planner works down and the consumption tool works up
limpid hamlet
Oh missed the consumption one thnx
unborn ermine
Planning for steel later is a good idea.
With all the steel replacements, it seems "best" to go for mass iron smelting->solid steel ingot recipe.
Once you get oil, it can mostly replace basic iron needs.
glacial hemlock
At early stages you will target the following:
Producing sufficient material for your logistics setup - such as iron plate, EIB, copper sheet
For your factory - rotor, hmf, computer
and for space elevator parts - ratio according to unlock requirements
Later on you will get hard drives, and very likely you will have to rebuild parts of your factory. Once you have gotten enough alts, you can go big.
open willow
are any of the calculators updated to the experimental branch?
sullen cloud
No
mortal gust
How many furnace can ONE tier 2 miner with 3 speed mods supply? 🙂
empty hemlock
depends on the purity
normal node can do 2, double for mk2, x2.5 for overclock is 10, double or half for pure or impure
vital seal
anyone run the numbers to see if it's worth the added complexity to make turbo fuel instead of just using fuel generators
i assume it is but just curious if only marginally better given you're consuming coal and sulfur as well
nocturne flower
I have not run numbers really, but I would say, HOR based Turbofuel seems to definitely be worth it. Normal turbofuel recipe doesn't seem as valueable
Someone who's really broken it down may speak to it differently.
vital seal
thanks @nocturne flower and then use the crude oil => HOR + polymer resin as a starting point to generate the HOR?
sink the poly for the time being
nocturne flower
Correct, that's what I'm doing currently feeding about 90 Fuel Generators Turbo fuel off two pure oil nodes.
vital seal
wow pretty nice
nocturne flower
Yes, I sink the poly for now, but working on getting it processing some extra plastic/rubber
vital seal
where did you put it on the map, seeing a nice spot with oil/sulfur/coal near the middle
nocturne flower
I put it on the Gold Coast area, just over the water
Giant powerplants I generally just find open water and build it there
vital seal
cool, thanks for the ideas
nocturne flower
np
white mirage
Anyone have a rough estimate on how much power it would take to utilize all nodes maxed out and producing various higher tier items? I’m considering trying it and I am trying to figure out how much nuclear power i would actually need
gleaming ermine
Depends on underclocking
unborn ermine
For miners at least, take 130 and multiply that by node count @white mirage
Thats a mk3 fully sharded.
Using that as a basis works nice, as you have a bit of wiggle room until better belts are added.
sullen cloud
My rough guess is there is far more power potential that you can draw from nuclear than you need for mining all nodes. I once did a 1m GW setup with many nodes tapped and the total power required for 84 fuel rods a minute was approx 66 GW
unborn ermine
174 for oil nodes too, man thankfully they reduced refinery cost by 20MW.
white mirage
I was thinking about power draw with fully loaded factories too
Turbo motors and whatnot
@sullen cloud that’s my initial guess as well but once I set up nuclear I’m probably not going to set up anymore because i will be putting it up in one area of the map
The only question is how many nodes do I need to max. I’ve seen the tw builds and wondering if I can get away with the same thing but only using one uranium node
vital seal
anyone have a good diagram / ratios for aluminum production. Looks like best setups for aluminum might include the alt recipes
ideally something that wont back up. Seems like water might be an issue, but haven't played with the ratios yet
And needing to generate plastic offsite somewhere just to contain the water to then sink it to a sink seems less than ideal
unborn ermine
I know @glacial hemlock had a chart for aluminum chains?
It really depends where you are at atm on the map for aluminum to be "clean" math 😛
The 3 nodes in the swamp can get ratios for 9-18 starting refineries for alumina solution.
Unless im wrong @vital seal , thats a good start for some math.
vital seal
cool
i started in the desert but did a run around the map already to get most all the hard drives
swamp is near by which is nice
unborn ermine
same, im just buffing my production for oil/steel products then going to aluminum.
Ive got a basis for 66ish fuel gens running on turbo buuuut... I need to get making the generators faster 😛
vital seal
wow, was thinking about doing the same with fuel generators in an area a little north east of the center of the map which has sulfur/oil/coal
for aluminum is coke or coal a better option?
like not having to deal with making coke if I can avoid it
shy mason
i can imagine the chains of pipes pumping water from the seas of extractors for the max rate now
unborn ermine
Atm my setup is just a simple 3 nodes of oil(the closest oil nodes by the desert, not on the beach) making 3 lines of 300m³.
one line is making the turbo using the alt turbo recipe, the rest is plastic/rubber.
covert tendon
How much fuel does a fuel gen take per min
shy mason
I've got one pipeline of heavy oil residue to pump over to desert turbo fuel generators, making rest of rubber/plastic and computer production line there at the same oil node with the copper and caterium node nearby there.
vital seal
cool, thanks for the advice @unborn ermine
unborn ermine
The turbo setup im using is the same post balance, but I havent bothered checking out basic fuel :P
Diluted fuel seems better now? It was a pain to have an overflow feeding it before balance, now my little turbo area makes, 15/min (50% clocking) from waste HOR 😄
Glad to help @vital seal
covert tendon
Haven't gotten turbo fuel yet
😦
i want it to come out to a whole number but it doesn't want to
unborn ermine
yeah, current setup for me is 66.66~ output
I probably could do a bit of black magic math but screw that for the moment 😛
covert tendon
just calculated how much i can make from this one area of nodes
only 14,933 MW with slugs
😦
id also have to turn off every single machine to even start it
unborn ermine
iirc each node of oil relatively boils down to 400 residue, or 10 refineries rounded down for turbo and excess split.
That ends up being 300m³/min or 66.66~ gens (10,000MW). I round it down to 66, but the extra could be used as a buffer gen in case you hit capacity.
covert tendon
I calculated this all out using an alt recipe
"alternate heavy oil residue" Oil goes directly into heavy oil and produces a biproduct of polymer resin
i haven't done the normal way yet
yea normal recipes seem worse only produce 10 heavy oil pm and this one produces 40 pm
unborn ermine
Thats what im doing
Weird, maybe im just being weird with my math.
covert tendon
and fuel gens arent meant to be long term anyway
mossy olive
is there a trick to making pumps work? i cant seem to get the head lift right whatever i try
im tryiing to pump water to a second floor Coal power
covert tendon
just put it on the same floor
mossy olive
not enough room where i am currently
covert tendon
make more room?
hexed jungle
I'm having issues with power mid-late game. I feel like its not even worth making fuel for fuel generators, and i've already got a gazillion coal plants. Is there something better I can be doing until I have nuclear?
covert tendon
geysers are also unlocked in tier 7
hexed jungle
forgot about those. need super computers though which I dont have just yet. maybe something to work towards
covert tendon
yea
id either have to go all in on coal or all in on fuel
belts are pretty limiting with coal
unborn ermine
Geysers are only held back by MAM, so as soon as you hit oil. In tier 5. Its actually pretty early on if you go ham in MAM.
covert tendon
quartz or caterium?
unborn ermine
Caterium
shy mason
Quartz gets you the map and explorer vehicle
gaunt turtle
I'm trying to make 40 modular frames (as part of making heavy ones) and so far it looks like I'll need 1840 or 2160 screws depending on how I make the reinforced plates... that's insane, both in number of machines needed and in beltwork to get it all delivered
covert tendon
steel screw recipe is your friend
gaunt turtle
yeah I'll just have to make more steel then... guess I'll use iron alloy ingot and solid steel for maximum output
glacial hemlock
@unborn ermine I am still in the progress of unlocking T7. Now i have to set up a temporary turbofuel gens for my future expansion.
unborn ermine
Was it you or greeny that had the chart for aluminum production?
Its so hard to remember with all the different charts and such 😛
glacial hemlock
Not me... i have the chart for plastic only
upbeat tide
Ugh this is annoying
1 imp
2 norm
3 pure
Oil nodes
That means 5.5 pipes of oil, i want even numbers!
patent bough
so turns out my alumina refineries breaking was entirely my fault because silica was getting backed up. oops.
trying to use byproducts in production lines unfortunately does not work well unsupervised.
fallow lily
It can work, but takes some more planning, and including sinks is important to make sure that things don't stop running.
pale jetty
nothing you can't work around though
cedar mica
Use a series of splitters and mergers, to make sure any overflow is dealt with
pale jetty
with like splitters in the middle, pushing stuff into mergers on the outside and if you do that 6 times you get only (1/3)^6 around 0.1% from the last splitter and put that into an awesome sink (with 8 it's about 0.01 % of the input item flow) but if it gets full, it will push the whole overflow out.
alternatively there's this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/fbbjuz/the_cycling_item_gate_overflow_splitter/
clear citrus
what's better:
oil > plastic/rubber + residue > residue fuel > power
or
oil > fuel + polymer > power + residue plastic/rubber
?
upbeat tide
Someone is working on their Visio skillz
upbeat tide
That too
west pike
didn't take UML in school for nothing!
green ravine
dark mode > light mode
fallow lily
@clear citrus Neither is better per se. It depends on what you want.
If you need power more than plastic or rubber, then make fuel.
If you need plastic or rubber more (more likely, I think), then make plastic or rubber. Turn the residue into coke, not fuel.
clear citrus
coke is bad though. It straight up says in it's own description it's worse than just using coal
fallow lily
It's flat out wrong.
Turning heavy oil residue into coke gives you more power than turning it into fuel.
About 130 MW more.
wind spade
unless you use alternate fuel recipe
clear citrus
Which means just using coal is even better
fallow lily
(Depending on how much you have)
No...
Coal is all well and good, but if you're making coke, you may as well use it for something.
I mean, you need plastic and rubber. Better to make power on the side than just sink the coke.
wind spade
@clear citrus that's not an argument. The thing is, you have some HOR, you want to turn it into power. In order from best to worst, possibilities are:
- diluted packaged fuel
- petroleum coke
- residual fuel
fallow lily
And the first is an alt, so you may not have it.
wind spade
yeah, but it's just so much better
and since it's packaged, you can void it to prevent overflow
that's also an advantage of coke over fuel
clear citrus
Doesn't really make any sense they'd let "the lesser version of coal" be better than fuel.
That way there's no point in fuel being in the game.
They'll probably change the numbers to make fuel better in a future patch/update
wind spade
I think it's worth going for it. imo it's one of the best alts out there
fallow lily
Sure, if the RNG rolls it.
wind spade
if not, just get another drive
fallow lily
And I'm personally more inclined to build factories than scour the map for more drives.
wind spade
sure, but while you're waiting for your factory to produce stuff for next tier unlocks, you can as well just get a few alts, especially some that are really good
clear citrus
I'm only scouring for alts once. In future resets I'm using the save editor to unlock all recipies.
As far as I'm concerned that's not cheating because I could just as well load the save where I've already unlocked them normally
fallow lily
I always have more factory to work on, and no more tiers to unlock.
So finding hard drives is a rather low priority for me.
I get them when I run across them, but I'm not going to go out of my way to find more.
wind spade
well, consider this: instead of building the factory now and rebuilding it later when you get the drive, why won't you start building with the recipe from start?
fallow lily
Because I may never get any particular recipe.
Keep in mind, this is a playstyle choice for me.
clear citrus
because rather than rebuild with the recipe, you leave the first factory and make a different one
fallow lily
I'm not interested in spending my Satisfactory time on hard drive hunts.
clear citrus
But frankly Nemo you could just unlock the alts with save edit
or spawn a crate of hard drives
fallow lily
But I'm not going to do that.
wind spade
@clear citrus usually alts help you deal with size of your production lines or your resource requirements and consumption, so building more production lines instead of building optimized ones from start sounds just bad
clear citrus
sure, but if i've already got a big steel factory, then unlock solid steel, do I really want to tear down the one I already built just to swap recipies? nah, I'll make a different steel factory somewhere else and either sink the first one or just have multiple steel sources
wind spade
build second one, then tear down the first one and use the resources in a way more efficient way 🤔
fallow lily
In any case, my main project at the moment is sorting out the logistics of my turbo motor factory.
gilded birch
The one thing you need to remember is that. Your time is the most valuable resource in this game
fallow lily
Yeah, which is why I choose to spend it on the parts I find most enjoyable. :)
clear citrus
now heres a numbers question.
just compared to each other, which nets more power:
direct oil to fuel to power, or oil to residue (plastic) to coke to power?
or that diluted packaged fuel you spoke of?
I'm assuming direct to fuel is better by nature of the direct aspect
even after needing water to use the polymer
wind spade
diluted packaged fuel is great when comparing it between HOR -> power processing lines, I haven't done more math on that subject unfortunately
green ravine
what does hor mean
fallow lily
Heavy oil residue.
wind spade
@fallow lily well, sure, but this is #math-and-meta , so if you're saying "I'm not playing meta, because I want to do what I enjoy", that's completely fine, but you can't argue that it's better way
green ravine
ah, I was seeing a lot of people saying it, and kept getting confused
gilded birch
I wouldn't be relying on oil to make power. My current settup just burns fuel for the sake of getting rid of waist product. And once I start producing more coke for aluminium I probably won't have that much fuel anyway
clear citrus
Honestly Nemo, given that you've made the decision not to go out and get hard drives, I don't really get why you wouldn't take advantage of the option to just have them without having to get them
fallow lily
Two reasons. First, I'm on the experimental branch and my feedback is tainted if I use the editor.
Second, I'm willing to take things as I get them, and don't feel any particular need to get all of the recipes.
clear citrus
that's why I'm getting them all legit at least once before ever editing them in.
Given the logic that after doing it once editing isn't any different from loading an old save.
gilded birch
Its a sandbox, non competative game who cares if someone cheats or not
fallow lily
It's not about cheating.
green ravine
I think a good solution would be an option when creating the game, just like the skip tutorial , a have all alt recipes would be nice
fallow lily
It's about being able to have my feedback be valid for the developer.
A save editor risks introducing problems that don't exist in the unmodified game.
gilded birch
👍
green ravine
bc it is a fair statement that not everyone wants to go out and collect 60+ hard drives that take 10 min each to do
wind spade
@gilded birch I do care if I play the game in a legit way or if I cheat items in. I want to enjoy the experience as intended by devs. I would be cheating on myself and I don't like that. As I said, some people consider that cheating
fallow lily
But I am sympathetic to the idea of having all the alts unlocked for a second playthrough.
wind spade
@green ravine yeah, then go and use the save editor 🙂 but I like to collect my drives, it's part of the game
fallow lily
Getting all of them once seems like a chore.
gilded birch
And that's your choice. Some people enjoy cheating. That's just what they enjoy
fallow lily
Doing it again seems entirely unpleasant.
gilded birch
Or they get bored with what's currently avalible etc
wind spade
I don't argue with that. But you're trying to argue with my opinion 🙂
green ravine
Ive been collecting em, here's my bootiful map https://i.imgur.com/4Wi5Un8.png
clear citrus
(Once unlocking all the alts)
I thought about just mass deleting everything in my world and making an empty save to start future new games from, so no save editing, but I'm iffy on the ideas of
A: starting my new games with the milestones already done, and B: not being able to pick new start locations (without needing to run there manually)
wind spade
also it may be just me, but I'd just play a single playthrough and expand on existing factory instead of resetting every now and then 🤔
clear citrus
resets are for the big updates that break everything
gilded birch
That's your opinion and it's fine
wind spade
afaik U3 saves were compatible, so you could just rebuild 🤔
gilded birch
Modifying a save to make the game more interesting sounds like a cool idea. Maybe you can pick out all the worst alt recipes to make it more difficult
wind spade
@gilded birch you're not forced to use them 😉
clear citrus
sure. but if I have to rebuild everything anyway might as well start over and see how good the new and improved experience is from the beginning
green ravine
Ik its a part of the game, and ive already made a post in QA about how I would go about some of it. https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/5e52be1720b88fe0ee32e3c4
clear citrus
and try a different spawn
gilded birch
You can force yourself to do anything if you set a bunch of restricting personal rules on yourself
clear citrus
which is essentially what a "challenge run" is
fallow lily
Well, I'm not even going to go through the full math for crude to fuel versus residue to coke. There's no comparison. Even with rubber, you can't even get enough total power out of the coke to match fuel's net power.
With 120 crude oil/minute, you can make 80 fuel/minute and get 800 MW. This takes two refineries, so you have 60 MW spent on those. 740 MW net.
Using the rubber recipe and converting the residue to coke, you get enough coke to power 720 MW worth of coal generators.
clear citrus
honestly the real hard decision for me is deciding on a plastic/rubber ratio, whether it's direct or as residue
fallow lily
And that's where I stopped, because there was no point in going further.
wind spade
btw, you aren't making net MW, but MWh
clear citrus
it's best to build your power sources around the premise of using full capacity
wind spade
I rather use MJ because it's way easier to calculate stuff with that
fallow lily
If that leads to a different conclusion, then please let me know.
clear citrus
what's the h even stand for
wind spade
hour
fallow lily
Hour.
clear citrus
man why'd everything else /min but power /hour
wind spade
1 MWh = 1 MW production over 1 hour
wind spade
1 J = 1 Ws
fallow lily
Multiplication, not division.
And the game is flatout wrong in its use of MWh.
It rates generators with that, when it's really talking about MW.
gilded birch
I don't follow. If you don't give a per time rating how much does it make?
wind spade
but I don't think you can easily replace MWh for MW, especially when you talk about net extra energy per piece of fuel
gilded birch
8MW ever year? 8MW every seccond?
wind spade
(I was referring to the discussion above, not the ingame error in units)
fallow lily
For example, it says that a fuel generator is 150 MWh. This is wrong.
It's putting out 150 MW.
150 MWh is how much energy it provides in one hour.
wind spade
@gilded birch MW is power it's outputing
clear citrus
well, power isn't really a resource in the traditional sense is it?
I use to work in a nuclear power plant, but only as a mechanic, so my memory of the power side of things is iffy
...well, my memory of the mechanic side is iffy. My memory of the electrical side is barely there
wind spade
MJ (or MWh) is energy value, MW is power load/capacity
gilded birch
Are you saying that in game it says one MW without the h?
fallow lily
It should be saying that.
But it doesn't.
In any case, if my conclusions are wrong then I'll reconsider focusing on net MW. But until then, I find that more useful to me.
blazing yew
@wind spade right you are sir
green ravine
oh so youre talking about how the value its showing is its current output not output over an hour, right?
wind spade
@fallow lily I don't want to argue about this, you can come to the same results. But last time I saw you doing the math, you got wrong result (when we talked about net energy of different HOR reprocessing production lines). May be just a one-time error though 🙂
@green ravine no, the opposite. Game sometimes displays MWh where MW should be
fallow lily
My numbers were correct, but I looked at the efficiency when I should have been looking at the net.
clear citrus
as far as the game goes, as long as it tells us what we're making and what we're using in the same value it's good enough to me.
Don't really have to worry about the terms if I can just compare "400thing" to "300thing"
gilded birch
If I need more power I just add more generators
wind spade
well that's coming to different conclusion 🙂 but yeah, as I said, it's fine
fallow lily
But that wasn't a problem of my choice of units.
clear citrus
Like all this talk about units doesn't matter much, we can just see we get 500 blah from direct fuel vs 300 blah from making coke out of residue.
gilded birch
All this talk of this game is makeing me want to go play some haha catcha around
fallow lily
Still, I wonder if you'll agree with me on the crude oil to fuel and crude oil to rubber residue to coke comparison.
green ravine
looking into this, this is confusing me, so lets say i have 1 assembler ( takes 15 MW ) , and i have a biomass gen ( 30 MW ) , the power pole says 15 MWH , shouldn't that be 15 x 60 if its per hour?
fallow lily
The pole should be saying 15 MW, not MWh, because it causes confusion like what you just experienced.
green ravine
if i don't hover over it, it does say MW , but when i hover to see a specific time, it says MWH
fallow lily
And it would be x 3600 if it were truly MWh.
wind spade
well the MW vs MJ thing is just my itch I guess, since you can't make 300 MW from 1 coal, you can only make 300 MJ or 300 MWs or 75 MW over 4 seconds, due to limitations of generators 🙂
fallow lily
But you can make 120 coal/minute, so that translates to a power. :)
wind spade
yeah, if talking items per minute, then it's fine. But not when talking about 1 item
fallow lily
I never consider just one item.
The game is about rates, so that's how I approach my calculations.
wind spade
in the comparison cases, I always consider 1 (or more) items through all possibilities, e.g. how much extra energy does 1 HOR give if converted to coke or fuel
clear citrus
Power doesn't work as an over time function anyway, right?
It's not like when you make 20 items per minute and use them or don't, and if you don't the extra builds up.
It's that at any given moment in time there's "X" power available, but unless you have batteries somewhere it must be made and used at the same time
wind spade
you usually get to work with whole numbers instead of decimals, when working in MJ, so I can do stuff from head and not use calculator
well batteries use the power as well, technically
but yeah
clear citrus
so a mwh is like saying you could draw that many mw for a full hour before a battery would run out
fallow lily
Pretty much.
wind spade
yeah, essentially that
fallow lily
Most phone batteries are rated in milliamp-hours, which is the same concept with different units.
wind spade
MWh or MJ are a "real" unit, so you can count with them the same way as you count with items etc
clear citrus
mwh just lets you think over time for what's using the power "run it for an hour" and mj is how much power there actually is
fallow lily
The first part is correct, the second isn't.
wind spade
MWh and MJ are the same unit
fallow lily
MW measures power.
wind spade
1 MJ = 3600 MWh
fallow lily
MWh and MJ are both measures of energy.
Other way around, Greeny.
1 MWh = 3600 MJ.
clear citrus
my training back on the plant was more about "open this valve to make that happen". They taught us enough about the electricity to understand "it will kill you and ruin everything if you F up"
elfin dock
it seems like a pretty easy fix to change the MWh to something that fits
I'm surprised they haven't done that
green ravine
its not a big thing, so probably haven't noticed / put it later on the list
clear citrus
better things to do.
In the meantime we can just compare 500 to 300
at any rate, lets see......
I can turn this 1140 oil into 38 rubber/plastic refineries, or 19 fuel ones
fallow lily
I'd generally suggest plastic or rubber.
clear citrus
might be nice to skip out on needing water, numbers aside
fallow lily
You can still do that. It's less efficient, but it is simpler.
That said, just about every oil patch is near water.
clear citrus
this one is technically in water, just too shallow for the extractor
glacial hemlock
updated to 28feb. You can really squeeze a lot of plastic out of oil now. For rubber, just swap the plastic with it.
the ratio of fuel : rubber or fuel : plastic is 1:1 now.
clear citrus
I only just this moment had it occur to me that I still need water if using coke
prior to now I was thinking I would only need water if I did direct fuel and wanted byproduct plastic/rubber
paper mauve
anyone know the burn time in coal gens for compacted coal?
shrewd yacht
what is the net gain of compacted coal though?
have to consider the power cost of making it by adding the miner cost of sulfur and the assembler
warm wren
For me at least I think the best way to do compacted coal would be to set up turbo fuel generation and then use the excess sulfur/coal to run coal gens.
glacial hemlock
compacted coal = 630MJ, coal = 300MJ
plucky dagger
Hello everyone, my calculator/production planner is finally online. I hope it's helpful! https://daniel2013.github.io/satisfactory/calculator
sterile trench
The alternate seems .. worse? More energy draw, more RCU's more motors and the swapped items don't seem to matter much
unborn ermine
Its bugged, alt is actually the normal recipe, a few are like that.
Also, quite a few alts either add or remove need for oil.
glacial hemlock
Actually, whether the recipe is listed as alt or not, is depends on your unlock sequence. If you unlock the alt before the normal recipe, then it become this
fierce ruin
yep, its better
blazing yew
You can make two Manufacturers for that efficiently and double the 1.875. It’s better than the 2.812
Alt Recipe is less motors and engines.
Rubber is produced from 1 refinery. The stators are made from a production chain, and heat sink is easy to make compared to the AI limiters.
wind spade
everything is made from a production chain 🤔
blazing yew
I meant that it takes multiple buildings.
wind spade
I need to finish alt analyser for this lol
gaunt turtle
hm I'm setting up 9x steel screw constructors (2340 screws) and I need to split that to 4x250 + 8x140 machines on a floor below, I have mk4 belts
any suggestions for strategy?
glacial hemlock
The 2.8125 recipe is definitely better than the 1.875 recipe
gaunt turtle
(slightly too many screws being made, but shouldn't affect number of belts required)
glacial hemlock
I don't use steel screws. Screws don't deserved to have the coal spent on them
gaunt turtle
the number of machines required for iron screws is just insane tho
wind spade
nova meteor
lol
gaunt turtle
ended up combining 9 to 6 (three 3:2 sets) bringing those 6 belts of 390 screws down, 4 of the belts can be split directly between a 250+140 pair, and the remaining two belts split between a 140+140 pair
umbral scarab
greeny, are you still against screws?! I thought Update 3 made them more relevant.
fallow lily
Do you have the numbers to show that?
glacial hemlock
4 (box of) screws are equivalent to 1 ore. 1 plate is equivalent to 1.5 ores. Take a look at greeny's site about the recipes of bolted RIP and bolted frames then you'll know
fallow lily
I was just curious if you had run the numbers yourself and had them on hand.
stark lichen
I would recommend placing screw machines just before the assembler or manufacturer you are supplying, and belt just the iron ingots or steel pipes. It saves you from having to make several lines of screws.
The constructors would be clocked as needed.
glacial hemlock
@fallow lily bolted plate: 0.16 more iron ore. Bolted frame: 2 more iron ores
gaunt turtle
stupid amount of screws now going
glacial hemlock
Screw screws.
nocturne flower
@glacial hemlock do your ratios factor in Steel screws? And/or any of the more efficient steel recipes?
glacial hemlock
No, why steel screws in the first place? Steel use coal, you know...
nocturne flower
You serious? So what if it uses coal?
sand garnet
Coal is more limited than iron
nocturne flower
Meh not so limited I find myself avoiding steel production
unborn ermine
I would say, if you have a line using steel and had a leftover chunk that a recipe could use steel screws instead of backing something up/sinking a product, it may be handy.
nocturne flower
I would go as far as saying once you get logistics in place to pull it off you're using almost exclusively steel. Between Coke steel and Solid Steel alts steel becomes easy to produce.
Coated steel plates among other steel & oil based alts are higher throughput and conserve more space.
Ultimately making alt Heavy endgame factories working with Bolted recipes fed via steel screws.
glacial hemlock
And steel rod. Yes normal iron can be almost eliminated. If there is more sulfur in the map, i might consider using steel.
gaunt turtle
ah yes, finished my two-manufacturer 7.6 heavy frame line
not really that impressive I suppose, compares to what everyone else is doing
glacial hemlock
Just take it easy and make 100 turbomotors/min
gaunt turtle
next will be making a bunch of computers properly
and I should probably also put some time into those project parts
upbeat tide
Why is sulfur stopping you from making more steel?
glacial hemlock
Compacted coal.
upbeat tide
The compacted coal steel alt isnt exactly efficient imo
gaunt turtle
hm this production line does in fact not use any regular iron, except as ingredient for solid steel
glacial hemlock
It is efficient in terms of coal usage
plucky dagger
It also uses less iron to make steel. Just need some sulfur too.
18 coal + 18 sulfur + 36 iron per minute = 60 steel ingot per minute (compacted steel with compacted coal recipe as well)
compacted steel 60/m
upbeat tide
Maybe, but for now solid steel is my best bet. I am already using the two closest sulfur nodes for turbo making, and powering a coal plant
Might stop the compacted to coal gens tho tbh
plucky dagger
Solid steel is still nice. 40 iron + 40 coal /minute = 60 steel ingot /m
nocturne flower
IMO Solid Steel is best approach, augmenting with Coke steel if needed late game. Compacted Steel is good if you need extra umph and have the extra sulfur.
sullen cloud
@wind spade do you happen to have a detailed list of which recipes have been changed with the patch last Friday? As the patch notes are not 100% clear in this regard
sullen cloud
sure, would be awesome, better than checking all of the figures in my spreadsheets
nocturne flower
Really fun note for any unaware, crouching allows us to now fit through conveyor wall holes 😄
shy mason
i use crouching all the time now to fit under the 1 wall high belt basements i make to sort things, it's hard to crouch jump though
hexed mason
I totally hate haveng to play on a U2 file where I don't have crouch!
unborn ermine
Crouch jumping exists too now @nocturne flower
Jump in the air and you can go into a conveyor wall.
Last time that was a thing, was playing Half-Life back in the day 😛
nocturne flower
Haha, nice
unborn ermine
Oh for those that are wondering, that alt for turbomotors (on paper) is great, was using https://legorin.github.io/satisfactory-calculator/calc.html
and it saves nearly half of the needed aluminum.
Case in point, 11.34/m Turbo Motors needing 1209.6/min of ore vs 630/min
Cleaner too in some cases.
unborn ermine
forgot to mention im also messing with the other alt for heatsinks, so that may fudge numbers.
cedar mica
How high do water flow in reverse? I want to do a gravity lock system, so there is always water for power
Do I need more then 1 fluid buffer worth of height, the small 10m? one
reef gale
can some show me how to make a balencer to make 14 into 6?
random island
anyone got a chart for the new oil system ... oil to residue ration etc ?
tardy harness
Can any1 explain me why the Oil Extractor runs on 100% Efficency by a prod.rate of 600m³ but Pipes can only 300m³ and they never peak the 300m³ ?
https://i.imgur.com/hY52E28.png
even the buffer looses some fluid?
https://i.imgur.com/21pLmWY.png
tardy harness
nobody? :/
hazy fossil
Im assuming we will get pipes with higher max flow rate in the future
tardy harness
yea they already "confirmed" mk2 pikes but not now.
But what I mean is why I dont get the max flow rate when the Extractor is producing the double amout a pipe can handle?
unborn ermine
Could be filling more than it can output, machine might be hung up, thinking its full?
Either way, no point going that hard.
tardy harness
It's filling empty Buffers and the pipe is going downwards. I also put pumps at the start of the pipe but still the rate is changing between 200 and 260m³
upbeat tide
What do you guys think of this oil setup?
6 nodes
1 impure
2 normal
3 pure
1650 m3 oil/min in 6 pipes, 5 full 1 at 150
450 oil making 300 fuel > 13.3 refineries making 250/min turbo (300 compacted a min)
600 oil making 400 plastic and 200m3 HOR
600 oil making 400 rubber and 400m3 HOR
HOR into coke 1200 min
Resin to residual plastic, 225/min resin in 3.75 refineries making another 75 plastic
Total buildings:
6 oil pumps
12 assemblers
76 refineries
55 fuel gens
cedar mica
You forgot the 48 coal gens, you can power with the 1200/m coke
upbeat tide
Not going for power, thats goin to alu eventually
cedar mica
That coke can power your entire oil setup, leaving fuel for the rest
cedar mica
Its better then sinking it, as you spend power to get rid of a power source
If you want to be sure, hock up an overflow system to it
upbeat tide
Its not getting sinked, being used in a large alu setup
shy mason
they're working out the bugs with the singular rate first before adding in more tiers of pipes
upbeat tide
Yea once that happens another 3 oil facilities for me
vital seal
feeling like I should be waiting to do my big build out until the recipe balancing has settled for the most part, anyone else waiting? I guess unless the items in the recipes themselves change I can just underclock appropriately to even things out later.
clear citrus
so 1140 oil making a combination of plastic/rubber becomes 530 residue, which means..... 1590 coke/min.
....do I really want to build that many coal generators to use this up lol
upbeat tide
Use it in steel production or alu too
Im setting up to make 600 residue, half is gonna be for alu other half for steel
unborn ermine
Or some of that diluted packaged fuel (if you have the alt)
upbeat tide
That too
clear citrus
I sort of presumed "diluted fuel" would be fuel + water
unborn ermine
Yeah they swapped the canned heavy for bottled water, its handy especially if you have most, if not all fuel being used.
upbeat tide
Im setting up to use 300 fuel to make 250 turbo
clear citrus
I don't really understand why fuel that's been diluted would be better than regular fuel
that sounds backwards
unborn ermine
I skipped fuel, so there was only one way for packaged fuel 😛
Extra heavy set for diluted
clear citrus
I assume, though, that I will want coke being made for aluminum later.
I heard there's an alt recipe to use coal, but is it even worth using regular coal for aluminum?
upbeat tide
Turbo is fun to make
300 fuel >
200 compacted >
In 13.33 refineries
Makes 250
250 turbo can keep 55 gens happy
clear citrus
Ideally I'd use the byproduct water from aluminum to feed coal generators, but I don't have aluminum yet
unborn ermine
Then the Turbo - Heavy is like,
300 compacted
375 heavy
From 400 heavy total
extra is diluted fuel
nets a 300m³/min Turbo
Alts really do change your thought process when building, I ended up getting the recipes before actually getting most of the "needed" ones for me.
scarlet marsh
so whos got the largest production numbers?
summer field
Simon.
carmine hazel
funny how a lot of us are at the same spot, turbo fuel and aluminum
just updated my fuel production to be doing 7 lines of crude oil into power....would need 1800/m compacted coal which isn't easy to find
spice hinge
will share it here as well but I made an excel version of a production planner for update 3, its pretty large (62MB) and pretty slow but it works as best as can be expected for excel: https://drive.google.com/open?id=10COW3oOJSKWbuHoCKlnXAHkAu7TDLheS
glacial hemlock
@carmine hazel if you have to make 1800/m compacted coal, you shld have used the sulfur to produce nuclear fuel rods instead.
worthy obsidian
reading all this math hurts my head
glacial hemlock
#meth and meta
eternal slate
case manifold:
feed in 240/min, each machine uses 30/min, 1/2 splits. 8 machines (240/30)
--> full efficiency when 4 last machines not full (remaining splits 240/2/2/2=30)
--> (8-4)*100/240 = 1min 40s for 100% efficiency
is this right?
if the idea works, then
case manifold2:
feed in 10/min, each machine uses 2/min, 1/2 splits. 5 machines (10/2)
--> full efficiency when 3 last machines not full (remaining splits 10/2/2=2.5)
--> (5-2)*100/10 = 30min for 100% efficiency
timber wind
coal gens are 45 coal per min at 100% on EXP?
serene abyss
15 coal/min at 100%
serene abyss
yes, but it uses 45m^3/min water though, at 100% load.
timber wind
wow ok.. i got 1500 coal to use. guess I'm building 100 coal gens lol. and for water it's 3 to 8 via 2 pipes?
fierce ruin
When you realize you need 1440m^3/min of water for your new powerplant
serene abyss
I use 2 water extractors pr 6 gens (it is 30M^3/min short), but since I always use less than 90% of available power, I don't have any problems 🙂
fierce ruin
nice
i wonder if coffee stain will be liiteral satan and make it so we can run out of water
summer field
It's not like it grows on clouds.
full raptor
hey guys just want to check my math, one coal gen in experimental takes 1 coal/4 sec. that means 16 generators are 240/min?
assuming they use it all
serene abyss
yes, you are correct
full raptor
okay ty
full raptor
so according to this https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/production-planner/index/index/rotor/4/direction/RIGHT/maxBeltSpeed/270/minerSpeed/2;pure, 4 rotor/min takes 88 screws but its 100 in game. The calculators are outdated?
honest willow
yup. they are working on them
full raptor
ok i thought i had a setting wrong
compact sundial
At what rate do Coal Generators use coal?
rancid lark
15/min at 100% power draw
jagged grail
Are the devs aware of this? Lmao
covert tendon
yes
rancid lark
it's been like that for a long time
jagged grail
didnt know
rancid lark
mk6 belts eventually...
covert tendon
can u split right out of the miner?
rancid lark
no
covert tendon
or will that cause a tiny backup
jagged grail
i mean i know a simple solution, which is literally add a second output to the mk3 miner. It looks like its missing one anyways
it totally looks like there should be a second output
glacial hemlock
the second output port is probably still under development.
jagged grail
ahhhhhhhh understandable
i have a thought on how they could do it, might be jank tho. It'd involve the mk3 creating a bi product recipe so it splits the 1200 into 2 600 which then can be sent out kinda like the refinery
WAIT A MINUTE IM RETARDED LMAO WE HAVE STORAGE CRATES
glacial hemlock
no, 1200 iron ore can only be refined into 2228 ingots. For copper, it is 3000. For other, it will be much lesser.
shy mason
there's more alts now that can boost that ratio, either with foundries and mixing iron and copper, or refineries that take water to boost the ratio you get
glacial hemlock
correct. You couldn't see the recipe because you haven't unlocked it.
wind spade
I think it is for balance reasons that we can't use full node output
jaunty anchor
Does anyone know if all the new costs are published anywhere? Time, materials needed, and output?
spice hinge
wind spade
^
spice hinge
the guy aboves site
jaunty anchor
That's current as of the newest patch? Sweet, thanks.
cedar basin
im too lazy/stupid, hwo much turbofuel can i make (upd3) with 600 sulfur/min?
rancid lark
750 turbo fuel I believe
heady magnet
Someone know how to loadbalance fluids ? i have 300M3/min arriving from one pipe, i need 5 pipes at 60M3/min and i don't know how to do, i tried the overflow method but as usual it became spaghetti, so if it's possible to loadbalance fluids, i'd like to know thanks
wind spade
it's not possible and you can just do overflow
frail oriole
I have a 720/m output of Steel Ingots in my factory, what should I automate with it? I have a few Encased Industrial Beams, Motors and Versatile Frameworks being made atm, not sure what to use the rest of the steel ingots tho
I just unlocked trains and want to plan ahead, want to know what I'll need to automate with steel in the future
sand garnet
Steel beams, pipes, HMF are needed most for trains
earnest orchid
lmao it took me 4 hours to get coal power up and running, so much running around but didnt want to use too much biomass burners, took long enough to make the smart plating. screws are a bitch. but im located in a spot where there are no hard drives, and i have no food to explore yet
sand garnet
Just git gud so you dont need food, scrub :p
earnest orchid
lol, i have spitters between base and the coal for the generators, somehow im not dead yet
without the basher well you risk a lot
lmao ofc if you want 50,000mw via coal genes you get 666.66 generators
harsh fractal
Yeah I started in dune desert and couldn’t find much to heal with so I am used to hanging out at 3 HP now
The respawn bug means I don’t even try to kill things unless they attack me now
heady magnet
Thanks @wind spade so i think i’ve no other choice, let’s get a bit spaghetti
wintry finch
screws aren't a bitch, unless they get harder to make later on
honest willow
300 m^3/m of oil can power 148.15 generators consuming turbo fuel following this path? oil->alternate: HOR -> alternate: Diluted Packaged Fuel -> unpackaged fuel -> Turbofuel. can anyone confirm?
just have to plug 800 empty cannisters into the system
glacial hemlock
But you also need a lot of sulfur
honest willow
thats no issue
glacial hemlock
For spitters and hogs, usually if it isn't a boss monsters i will just fight it with 30% hp and let auto regen heal myself all the time
For bosses, i will eat 4 nuts to bump my hp to 50%. But this is before you get the cartridge.
upbeat tide
Soo, what do you guys think of this setup
900 petro coke
900 iron ore
Making 1200 steel infgot
300 > steel beams > 75 out
900 > steel pipes > 600 out
glacial hemlock
Then target your HMF production/min, then work down to the components item rate. Usually you won't use much beams at late game so the ratio seems ok.
upbeat tide
Im planning on using steel screws so yea some beams at least
glacial hemlock
Oh... well.
upbeat tide
Well?
glacial hemlock
I am referring to steel screws.
upbeat tide
It does simplify things
jaunty anchor
Question for anyone: Assume an assembler at 100% making Stitched Iron Plates. The recipe box says 5.6, the overclock box says 5.62. Which is accurate? 5.62 is a ... weird number that doesn't lend itself well to perfect efficiency.
wind spade
none is correct, it's 5.625
jaunty anchor
Oh, that makes it easier. That's 5 5/8, so if I have 8 machines, that's 45/min.
greeny the math wiz all up in here.
jaunty anchor
Ah, it's right there in whatever color you have as the background and white.
Thanks.
Argh. This is non-trivial with that 5.625/min RIPs
wind spade
just underclock it to scale 🙂
jaunty anchor
Yeah, that's what I'm going to have to do. But to what percentage! 🙂
Which is not your problem, to be clear.
wind spade
you can set it to items per minute directly
jaunty anchor
I should have taken the bolted iron plate recipe.
wind spade
and it'll underclock to correct percentage
timber iris
these pipes are driv'n me nutty..
trying to plan out a 32 coal generator space.. and a good way to set up the water extration/distrabution...
3 extrators per 8 genis.. or 5 per 16 as the 5th is split half an half between the sets of 8.
I read that the in line pumps are only really needed for vertial rises.. yet one image I saw talked about having one every 15 to 20m of pipe.. but I couldn't quite tell if it was talking about flat pipe as well or not.
an friend of mine is convienced if I did the 5 extractor thing I'd need to put a pump on either side of the 5th (middle) exctactor to help with the wanted flow direction.
upbeat tide
Pipes two ways
3 pumps > one pipe, 300m3 water > 6 coal gens
3 pumps > 2 pipes > 8 coal gens
I personally only use the former method
timber iris
by pumps you mean extractors? or the actual pumps.. cuz there are two diffent things..
I've had 8 Genis working of of a single pipe manafold.. from 3 extractors.
i've gotten 16 Genis with 5 extractors with two pipe manfolds feeding one row of 8 each.
upbeat tide
5 extractors is overkill and useless. Pipes have a max flow capacity and you hit that with 3 extractors
timber iris
I'm just still wacky confused about the inline pumps and how many are actually needed in a set up.. based on one of the images I had mentioned which talked about 1 pump per 15-20 meters of pipe.. I had like. 5 or more pumps just for one run of the pipe manafold.
..... 5 extractors.. two main pipe lines (one from each end of the row of five where the middle one is split both ways) gives .. 2.5 extractors per line..
timber iris
8... I can get 8 off of one pipe much like what the satisfactorygameguide image showed.. just my organization was diferent
elfin dock
300/45 is 6.67
jaunty anchor
I'm curious, because I feel like if you overclock your water extractors, you can get a fair bit more net power. Maybe I'm not understanding how much power the overclocked extractors eat. A pipe can handle 300m3. Base extractor rate is 120m3, so you need 225%. Base power usage is 20MW, that bumps it up to roughly 73.2MW, if I have my math right. In my case, I have 6 extractors. With the 3 pumps/8gens, that's 16 gens for a total of 800MW (net 740MW). With 1 pump/6 gens, that's 36 gens for a total of 1.8GW (net 1360.79MW).
@timber iris You can get 8 per one pipe...if you're not at maximum power usage
I think that 1800# is wrong, too.
elfin dock
overclocking is exponential growth. it's not more efficient to overclock one machine than use multiple
also don't plan for 8 on one pipe
timber iris
by "power usage" do you mean.. just simple power draw, or OCing? I hadn't intended to OC the genis.. I'd rather just build more of them.
elfin dock
also coal plants are 75 MW not 50 now
jaunty anchor
(@elfin dock Yeah, 75, that's where I get 2.7GW) 1 pump -> 6 gens is 450MW, minus 73.2MW (376.8MW). 3 pumps -> 8 gens is 600MW, minus 60MW (540MW). OK, so assuming effectively unlimited space for extractors, not overclocking nets more power. My current extractor location only fits 7, maybe 8 extractors. So overclocking is good. I expect to be at fuel and geothermal generators soon anyway.
Educational for me, I had assumed I was being clever, when I hadn't done the math.
@timber iris No, don't overclock the generators, just the extractors. But that's not the best efficiency if you have lots of extractor space
timber iris
well last I put down a extractor, in a friends build.. their interface showed them at 3 crystal OC yet running at "100%" not "250"
maybe that was just client nonsense
elfin dock
geothermal isn't that good and its fairly late since it uses supercomputers
jaunty anchor
Did you move the slider? Just putting a power shard in doesn't change the overclocking, you have to set the %age.
elfin dock
After coal turbofuel and nuclear are the way to go
jaunty anchor
(I assume you did, but I have to ask).
I'm wary of Nuclear, because I don't want to deal with the waste.
elfin dock
waste is not nearly as big a deal as people make it out to be
timber iris
ye I did, and it rudeced the clock.. I've not put one down in my build yet as I'm still trying to plan out the space for it.. ie where to cluster the extractors per cluster of genis
elfin dock
but honestly unless you're building a megafactory nuclear is not a necessity, its just pretty cool
jaunty anchor
Well, I kind of am planning to build a megafactory, though if I ever get around to it is a different question.
I'd like to have each possible output have at least 4 machines that make it. Not sure that's possible with the number of resource nodes.
timber iris
I'm work'n in this area right between the Savanna and Western Slopes.. my start was the Northen Forest and I've got my main base further east, not shown in this shot.
elfin dock
4 machines of each item?
jaunty anchor
Yeah.
timber iris
there are 4 normal coal nodes and 1 pure coal node in that area.. I plan on taping the normal nodes for power and OCing them for the coal output to be what is needed.
elfin dock
thats definitely possible
jaunty anchor
Well, if I ever get around to building the manufacturing for the next tier and scavenging for alt recipes, I might get around to it.
Right now, based on my calculations, I need 720 iron ore, 190 copper, and 510 coal per minute just to make the stuff, and that's not counting coal for power.
jaunty anchor
Is that KirkMcDonald? That looks like his calculator
elfin dock
it doesn't deal with byproducts but greeny is updating his tools
its based off of his
jaunty anchor
OK, maybe I won't do 4 of EVERYTHING, I don't need 4 factories making intermediate products like polymer resin.
But it needs over 10k iron ore per minute.
elfin dock
most factories only focus on the top tier
jaunty anchor
and almost 42GW of power
elfin dock
so supercomputers, turbo motors and HMF
they do have some splitting off for storage but not dedicated builds for all of them
also alternate recipes are a huge help
jaunty anchor
Yeah, this doesn't take into account the alts, so it might be much less.
(by 'this' I mean the calculations I just did, not anything about the calculator itself)
elfin dock
https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev/ this is also a good site for looking at items/alternate recipes
jaunty anchor
My big issue is that, for example, I might spend a bit of time coming up with a build to make smart plating, and once you're done with those tiers that need that, you just tear it down. At least in Factorio, you always need everything you make factories for (caveat: early furnaces and burner miners)
elfin dock
yeah that is a problem people have had with the dedicated items for the space elevator
jaunty anchor
Anyway, past my bedtime, thanks for the tips about power and so forth, everyone.
wind spade
you can just sink the extra stuff that you don't need
and afaik there's some stuff that you'll need for future tiers as well
clear citrus
anyone have the fuel/min used by a generator on hand (at capacity)
clear citrus
fuel
earnest orchid
15 pm
clear citrus
thanks
wind spade
the answer is same for both anyway @earnest orchid
heady magnet
Yep 15 coal pm and 45m3 water for coal geneeator
timber iris
so then is 6 the ideal target for groups of Coal genis? I don't intend to OC the gens though having the option isn't bad..
still trying to plan out my plant.. I've got 4 sets of 6 atm.
each grouped in 2. so 12.. with 5 water extrators per the two groups feeding into two pipe lines (300 each pipe)
wind spade
3 extractors -> 8 gens
timber iris
that is what I had read else where but someone eriler was saying 6
summer field
How many water extractors, how many coal gens? I count 5 extractors, can't see how many coal gens in total.
summer field
16 would be a good number, because 3:8 | 6:16 ratio
timber iris
i had read that a 5 extractor set up like this would work. feeding two lines 300m3 water by splitting the out put of the center one.
summer field
5 is plenty for 12 gens
timber iris
wel I'll be adding the other 4 for 16
friend kept insisting I needed to add the water tanks.. cuz that's what worked/she did for her set up
I had thought that such might be over kill
summer field
5 extractors make 600 water.
12 gens use 540 water
16 gens use 720 water.
You would need one more extractor to handle 16 coal gens at max capacity.
timber iris
by max you mean?
summer field
100% clock speed, consuming all the power they're producing.
wind spade
water tanks are useful if power runs out due to coal shortage, so you have some buffered water before the new extracted water kicks in. But imo it's not required, as there should be no coal shortage
timber iris
ye, specially as I was gonna make a coal buffer
one'a them industral storage bins per row
wind spade
coal buffer is pretty much useless, as you're mining it from miner directly anyway
glacial hemlock
@wind spade if you set item rate, it will floor down to the nearest percentage, which sometimes will be not exactly the number you are targeting for.
wind spade
if the buffer starts running out, that means that you don't have enough coal
timber iris
true but it's handy earily set up like I am where I can grab some extra and use it to make steel or powder XD
summer field
It's not a buffer if it's empty 
wind spade
@glacial hemlock just add +1% after you set it directly from item rate then 🤔 😄
I mean each gen has a buffer of 1 stack + the belts are kinda buffers as well
timber iris
ok so what I'm hearing...
ditch the water buffers.
add two more genis per row to make each row 8 and each group 16.
add another water extractor? I thought pipes maxed at 300 capacity...
don't worry about a coal buffer either.
wind spade
yeah, pipes have max of 300, you may need to add extra pipe
or place the gens in a way that extractors can be connected from both ends of the pipe
summer field
You'll need at least 3 pipes, since it's more than 600/m, yeah.
timber iris
ye that is my current set up aiming for.. each outlet from those buffers is a seperate pipe from the extraction loop
in the image
i was planing two pipe manafold off of it. one pipe to each row of 8.
summer field
5:12 is decent too, since it fits nicely with 2 pipes, each supplying 6 gens.
Looking forward to Mk2 pipes.
timber iris
hmm ok so then how would I get the extra 120 into the pipe loop?
ie.. I add the 6th extrator.. I'd then need 3 pipes?
timber iris
and just let the water sort its direction out
well as long as I can keep it all level.. I can avoid pumps hopefully. if not I'm not heart borken about it
summer field
Yes, flood them all and let pipe sort them out.
timber iris
thank you kindly 💜 been staring at this for last 2 hours like some jigzaw missing a few last peaces
while my roomies cat tries to insist I let her sleep on my desk XD
summer field
Pretty sure there's at least a few templates for a 6:16 build out there.
timber iris
sounds like I just line them up in a row of 3 and then link em in a big loop. and slap 4 ports on the end closest to my genies XD
really wish there was a way to snap them to something..
lien'n em up is such a pain
upbeat tide
Use the supports as your snap points
summer field
Personally, I think I'll stick to 5:12, or 6:12 like this, and underclock the extractors to save a bit of power: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/f6c779/a_satisfactory_watertocoal_ratio/
upbeat tide
Aah yea, I like to build a U around extractors, 3x3x3 foundations
summer field
All though this is less compact than yours, I think.
timber iris
ye that fellow has the genis face'n out, I've got mine facing in.
upbeat tide
I actually do 1:6 with a 250% OC extractor
timber iris
coal generators
lol sorry my dad's father always called generators Genis.. (Jen-ee-s)
he worked in some big plant that had massive ones
summer field
250% OC seems like a waste of power, unless your lacking room to place water extractors.
upbeat tide
Yea sometimes it is but like in the first pic its space issues