i mean the byproduct. we need the ability to prioritize power buildings
#math-and-meta
stark lichen
upbeat tide
If you mean shoving it into coal gens, its incredibly bad, 2.4 sec timer
stark lichen
steel screw is actually pretty great for bootstrapping
it's nice that just one constructor can supply the assembler or manufacturer
upbeat tide
Steel screw is awesome
I have 3 steel screw constructors feeding all the screws I need for a heavy modular chain
Alt heavy mod tho
cursive raft
has anybody figured out how to make the fuel generator 100% or near 100 efficient? at most, i seem to only be able to push 10-15 flow rate into it once it fills up and at best ive seen 40%ish effeciency
with and without slugs
got a full storage connected to 1 generator just for testing. even put a pump on the line just to see if that helps increase the flow or not. dont seem to matter.
wind spade
generators automatically scale based on your power consumption
cursive raft
so no manual way to force it to max ?
im not a math guy so i wouldnt know how to plan for flow with this kind of scaling
wind spade
you don't even need them to produce more, since you have no machines that would use that extra power
cursive raft
im just trying to work out maxizing the 300 flow rate of the pipes
how many generators i could put to utilize the full pressure
tough eagle
Itll always be a variable rate. The only time this is a problem is when using byproducts for power
wind spade
8 gens per 3 water extractors, using two pipes
wind spade
one does 15/min m3 at max power
cursive raft
so close to 300 rate into the storage
cursive raft
is 15 a max for sure?
wind spade
yeah, 600 MJ for 1m3 of fuel, generator does 150 MW, so 4 secs per 1m3 or 15m3 per minute
cursive raft
ok yea so that i can work with
that helps me plan a bit better
i just couldnt figure out how to confirm that visually in game.
wind spade
I think generators have somewhere written how much they use
cursive raft
so long as i can assure close to 300 input into the lines, that would be good enough for 16 for sure then with a little extra
now i just gotta play with the refineries to see what i can come up with on that part of the test.
i got 3 using 300 input and producing almost 100 output
well, 100 input per and producing 100 out
glacial hemlock
Hook it to tons of hypertube entrance. They constantly drain power
wraith glacier
How do I load balance 5 constructors that need to put out total 90 plates and they produce 20. Into 3 assemblers my brain is broken atm
wind spade
--S--S--S--S--S
| | | | |
C C C C C
| | | | |
M--M--M--M--M
|
S--S--S
| | |
A A A
Thanks but that looks like over flow
wind spade
yeah, that's a manifold ๐ better in almost every way than load balancing
wraith glacier
Well I guess it's reinforces plates the first machine won't build fast enough that the last won't feed
Thanks I'll give it a go
wind spade
if you calculated the numbers correctly, it will work eventually
just takes a bit of time to fill the first machines
frosty swift
anyone know a good 1->5 balanced splitter?
glacial hemlock
Manifold.
frosty swift
other than the manifold of course
glacial hemlock
Else, split into 6, feedback the 1.
storm ingot
The trouble with the six feedback into one is that it actually slows down your input because you have 1/6 cycling back into the line if the line is max capacity
frosty swift
True, but I think I can work with that. Thanks
storm ingot
Well, example is say a mk 2 cause number works easily. The 120 splits into 20 each. Meaning 20 cycles back into that 120. As result, with a 120 input, your output is capped at 100.
So if you want ot maintain the full input or avoid having to use a higher mk intermediatary, one extra splitter, and three mergers after the initial 1-3 split.
this will cycle the surplus in and level out at a 120 input 120 output as the cycle acts as a ballast.
wind spade
the issue with balancers is that they are worse than manifolds in almost every way
storm ingot
the one time a value of splitters is worth is if you are short on supply for whatever reason so don't want the last one under producing to keep a part of a line from running short, but even then stuff will eventually balance, even if a midpoint assembler backs up because of that line being backlogged
mossy olive
how many coal generators can i get on a Pure Coal with Mk2 miner and mk3belt?
graceful loom
so does anyone have a spreadsheet of alternate recipes? (ie for experimental not current)
covert tendon
240รท15 @mossy olive
mossy olive
ty
glacial hemlock
swift panther
Lol greeny
gilded trench
question, is it worth doing a miner->10smelters->container -> workstations?
i thought id try so that i have stations pumping plates, pipes, screws etc all into containers, and from there to different stations
instead of minmaxing 2 constructors into 3 constructors into assembler for each part etc?
swift panther
Just your two comments about manifolds and balancers. Made me laugh lol
fallow lily
Balancers have their uses...it's just not in factory construction.
quick gorge
Sooo a mk6 belt must be at least 1200 i/m since a Mk3 miner on a pure node clocked at 250% is 1200 i/m
fallow lily
For working with trains, I see balancing input and output between various freight platforms being useful.
glacial hemlock
@quick gorge CS won't give you 1200, perhaps 1170 from my guess
fallow lily
And it'll probably be another year.
quick gorge
laughs in mk7
fallow lily
Three for Mk7.
glacial hemlock
@gilded trench buffers buffer, but won't do anything good for your factory
fallow lily
Mostly because machines already buffer.
glacial hemlock
Compared to factorio, SF machines do have lots of buffer.
fallow lily
And if you make efforts to balance your factories, the existence of buffers doesn't matter much.
quick gorge
I'm going to put my programmable splitter idea in the modding discord cuz if CSS ain't ganna give us complex things the modding people might.
fallow lily
Byproducts and resources that need to be sunk/fed back aren't complex?
glacial hemlock
Great! Once i am done in vanilla, i would like to try mods too for more complex production
quick gorge
The splitter idea being
https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/558721941410807812/681847129228050494
rancid lark
@quick gorge there's already a mod for that
quick gorge
Does it include all that functionality?
rancid lark
Priority and ratios, ya
quick gorge
Annnnnd the regulator?
glacial hemlock
Sorting, no?
gilded trench
idk, i think the buffers would help organizing the factory or something
glacial hemlock
Buffer do helps if parts of your factory is designed to be not running continuously.
rancid lark
Not the type of item functionality
quick gorge
The cult is displeased
rancid lark
You could do it with the ratio merger though I would think
Better discussion on the missing discord though
quick gorge
Well I posted it on there anyway.
willow igloo
Rate my strategy, bus format. I've been using a stack conveyor bus, about 8 stacks high as that is 5 wall segments per floor, bus continues to higher floors when a floor gets too big. My strategy has been to build a factory line perpendicular to the bus to either consume my current belt tier of ingredients or output a belt of output, building on both sides of a merge line when applicable. My strategy has been to not plan a huge starting smelting factory but to play a game of "fix the limiting resource" and only consider a factory needing to be "fixed" when I go to my hub and look in the storage bins. If I can grab at least 2 full stacks of items for building purposes I consider it good since I'm making more than I'm using for personal building.
Since a belt on the bus can go both directions from the point it is put on the bus I figure if I need to add more smelting later that I can run it back toward the start of the base and feed old machines as well as new
Side note, as I get alternate recipes, I can demolish the factory line for X product and replace it with a new production line connecting to different ingredients since the bus has all of my items on it already
sand garnet
Bus is agenerally bad idea in this game
willow igloo
I was originally going to make a separate factory for each product but I didn't space them well and wound up having conveyor spaghetti
Another though was to make individual factories that do more than just a single step and input raw in one side and finished higher tier items on the other
steady lily
@quick gorge in the caterium mam tree there is a programmable splutter at the bottom
quick gorge
. . .
willow igloo
What I really want is a priority splitter. Can you do that in a programmable where you want it to go one way first, then the next and finally 3rd?
steady lily
Yes, it wonโt be exact but it will be 99% effective
Splitter-99% one way, 1% the other way, and put another on of those after
quick gorge
I want a not shit programmable splitter.
steady lily
That solves the problem you just stated
willow igloo
Interesting, but when the 99% direction is full it would then go fully to the 1% side I assume?
steady lily
Yes
willow igloo
Awesome. Still would prefer a straight up priority system but that works
Will also help on my factory lines, usually everything balances slowly via the overflow method, but being able to take a certain percentage off at each stop would be amazing
steady lily
If you start thinking about the numbers you might like it better, every 100 you lose 1 that goes into the overflow area
quick gorge
I'm still stating I want a programmable splitter.
oblique hollow
Oh yeah overflow. Im also for Programmable splitters with more functions
Here, a short guide on how to set up my CIGO-Splitter
quick gorge
more functions, more like any... it's just a shitty filter.
I'm very aggressive towards the shite we have now
willow igloo
@quick gorge there's a reason why this is early access. Remember back when too many belts would bring your fps into the single digits? Before they could add cool things like nuclear radiation calculations and trains into the game they had to make their belts and machines function optimally.
Same reason we didn't gt pipes till recently, gotta make the rest of the game work and build atop a good foundation
We might even get factorio style logistics bots later or a helicopter, but first they have to make sure each building block for their finished game functions correctly. Better splitter might be incoming
quick gorge
Yes I know, but I'm British and the only way we know how to get things to change is be persistent and complain about things until they change.
I also find it more funny then anything with creative ways I can say I don't like something.
strange hawk
@oblique hollow You have really pretty handwriting
quick gorge
10/10 not a doctor
oblique hollow
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_lettering
Its good stuff
strange hawk
True
Yes I know, but I'm British and the only way we know how to get things to change is be persistent and complain about things until they change.
I also find it more funny then anything with creative ways I can say I don't like something.
@quick gorge I i laughed way harder than I shouldve
grizzled ember
if the max flow on the pipe is 300mยณ/min, the maximum amount of water extractor i can i have on the same pipe is 2? considering 120m3/min
grizzled ember
so the 600mยณ/min max flow on the water extractor is completly usless?
oblique hollow
Yes
strange hawk
For nowโข
dry mason
ok another maths question how is the effectiveness percentage calculated is it against all machines or only ones running? and/or connected?
shy mason
it's the machine you have open, it essentially is (time building)/(total time) it's been powered since loading. So it's more a measure of how well you have been feeding it the resource inputs on time
dry mason
ahh ok, that helps a lot. can fine tune things better.
willow igloo
As product backs up that percentage will go down sadly.
tough eagle
Those percentages bug out on me a lot. I just make sure nothing is stalled from not receiving inputs occassionally
And if it's stalled, time to follow the line and see what I screwed up
The worst is when you upgrade a setup and realize hours later that it's been running at half efficiency or worse because of some tiny detail like a 1m section of belt didnt get upgraded
oblique hollow
When you got closely packed mergers and splitters and a belt inbetween is a Mk 1
tough eagle
This has only happen to me once but I had the belt INSIDE the splitter not upgrade and didnt discover it for hours. I was building splitters directly on a line, which I do a lot. I dismantled the splitter and sure enough, there was a short piece of a mk1 belt there
strange hawk
You can stop with that
unborn ermine
limpid hamlet
Will a oil pump at 200% be worth it since the 300m3 limit of pipes?
shy mason
not until they bust out tier 2 pipes in latter versions
limpid hamlet
Meh
tough eagle
It's worth overclocking oil nodes up to 300, they can all use some level of overclock
tough eagle
Why generators? That's the one place with minimal benefit. It just saves some space
wind spade
@summer kite that's just waste of shards
summer kite
oh ;-;
i'm new to satisfactory i didn't know, thought it would help while i get stuff organized and figured i'd find more slug boys
i only put them in the ones that were on the hub
wind spade
for machines, if you overclock them, you use way more power than if you built more of them
sand garnet
greeny knows.
wind spade
for generators, it just increases power production and item requirements by the same amount, so it's the same as building multiple
wind spade
usually I recommend using shards only for miners, as those are limited by nodes, so if you're short on resources, you don't have to go search for far nodes
summer kite
i've been pretty lucky with nodes but they are all normal quality
i guess i'll do that then
and my assemblers since i need alot of stuff for my shuttle now
wind spade
example:
2 smelters at 100% eat 8 MW
1 smelter at 200% eats 12.1 MW
summer kite
oooo
wind spade
2 assemblers at 100% would eat 30 MW
1 assembler at 200% would eat 45.4 MW
so it's not worth overclocking assembler, unless you run out of space
it's usually better to build more
summer kite
hm okay
fallow lily
Refineries are so power hungry.
fallow lily
And hmm.
Manufacturers are power hungry, too.
Will have to think about any recipes that move production from an assembler to a manufacturer.
shy mason
so motors and flexible structural space elevator parts
carmine hazel
has anyone figured out the math on aluminum yet
steady lily
You can do this yourself by backtracking from the material you need
gilded quarry
All of the space elevator alts are bad except flexible frame. And that one is slightly more productive in terms of raw ore but requires twice as much space AND it requires more complicated inputs. So even that one is kinda meh.
The automated wiring alt is horrendous
considering it doesn't even save you power/resources/space, and all it does is require a massive production chain increase
turbid cape
pls all attachment group supports foundations
strange hawk
@gilded quarry so what are you saying?
Alt recipes are not there to make the game easier, they are there to give you an alternate way to do things
summer field
Except for the ones that make the game easier.
strange hawk
Just quoting CSS
gilded quarry
@strange hawk Yeah there are quite a few alts that are downright good, zero downsides
strange hawk
@gilded quarry o im sorry i thought i was still in #old-questions-and-help and u were asking something
excuse me ๐
gilded quarry
No worries. If you'd like to see more math behind the alt recipes and decide for yourself if they are there to make the game easier, see my post (and spreadsheet linked in the post) https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/f6kova/my_indepth_analysis_of_the_new_update_3_alternate/
gilded quarry
I personally like that some of the recipes are downright good. I think it makes finding hard drives more "worth it" and they feel like tech upgrades. If they truly were all just trade-offs, then I wouldn't even bother hunting for them
And yes, his tool will be MUUUUUCH better than my spreadsheet, I hope, but I was impatient ๐
strange hawk
The trade off ones can be good if you dont have certain materials close by
gilded quarry
Yes. Some of them are nice just because they exchange one resource for another. Some of them are just utterly horrible though, that you would only use in some random crazy edge case but otherwise is just bad
strange hawk
What i liked about greenys one was that you saw the ratios
upbeat tide
Started to do my calculations for alu... this isnt gonna be simple
carmine hazel
@upbeat tide not even a little
just the fact that you're putting out 360 scrap/m per machine, and then foundries take 240/m you so 3:2 refinery:fountry ratios on mk5 belts and it takes 3:1 boxite/water=>alumina scrap
I'm thinking and I hope I messed up the math here:
(18) water pumps (plus the 60/m/unit water return from alumina=>scrap refineries)
(27) refineries for water/boxite=>alumina
(9) refineries for alumina=>scraps
(18) foundries for silica/scraps => alum ingots (over 6 mk5 belts!)
Either way right now my max petro coke production is 300/min, gonna have to factor that in. Gonna have to tap another oil source for more
And bauxite isnt close to me, grasslands so lots of logistics before things even kick off
carmine hazel
did you start at the new location? I ran a train to the boxite and then picked up those 3 nodes + quartz nearby and ran another station at the next oil, 2 norms, pure and impure are plenty for petro coke
scarlet marsh
seem to have a hard time balancing liquids in oil refining and al production
carmine hazel
I made a second plant and trashed the primary for heavy oil residue, I might ship it back on a second train
but I've got coupons!
upbeat tide
Nope, started in south grasslands. Did red forest before, so one at a time
carmine hazel
ah, well for a single player you there's plenty of coke off one oil node
upbeat tide
Only tapping 900m3 of oil atm
carmine hazel
it will be, trying to figure out spacing/verticality design now.
currently starving 5 machines off one belt
bauxite via 2 train cars is not my bottleneck, that's for sure.
100m of water for EACH machine is a bit ridiculous, it would be nice to be able to put water back (60m return from scrap refinery) into the lake somehow, otherwise I'm tempted to bottle the water and shred it so it never blocks production
carmine hazel
I'm not using the plastic, so I could.
gleaming ermine
Wait, how is excess water a problem?
carmine hazel
that's neat, also not making that here
gleaming ermine
Is water an unwanted product of something?
carmine hazel
you need water to produce an item that has a byproduct of water, so they need a way to only run pumps when the water is low, instead the water out is blocking production
scarlet marsh
yes, aluminum
cedar mica
If you have a train setup, send the excess water into it, then loop it back into the source
scarlet marsh
same issue you have with heavy oil residue
you need to dispose of the heavy oil somehow
carmine hazel
heavy oil residue you can just thow to coke and toss it easily
scarlet marsh
or it blocks flow
cedar mica
Reduce water equal to excess and loop it back in. Saves a bit of power as well
gleaming ermine
That
carmine hazel
Refinery1) 70m bauxite+100m water =alumina
Refinery2) alumina+coke = 60m water and scrap
scarlet marsh
yeah you can reduce water and underclock your refining
carmine hazel
yeah once I figure out how much one refinery can make scrap It shouldn't be an issue once it's running
scarlet marsh
you just need to not max out your water production
gleaming ermine
That's what I'm thinking as well
cedar mica
Put a fluid buffer on the water output, run the numbers, reduce water pumps by how much water you get excess, then join the fluid buffer to the input line
scarlet marsh
is just to dispose of the water by bottling or wet concrete
carmine hazel
bottle and scrap bottled water, wait until fox news hears of it
scarlet marsh
yeah if you have a closed system tho
not sure how that works out
guess you just have to be underclocked on water the whole time
cedar mica
If you are unsure, add buffers, so you can keep an eye on things
cedar mica
No need to add more water, it just takes a little longer for the system to start up, as the excess water havent been added in yet
cedar mica
Water works like belts, you just need to give it enough, even if you give it 50/m and it wants 80/m
carmine hazel
if it can catch up then it's not going to continually go
it must be exact to be non-blocking
cedar mica
Count excess water as an water extractor, simple as that
carmine hazel
they're going to need a way to do this with water like we have with splitter/mergers
where you can prioritize a line
cedar mica
It dont need to get to 100%, right away. If the excess water is 20%, then the machine will run at 80%, till the first excess water joins, then slowly get to 100% from there
scarlet marsh
the excess water output will not be enough - unless the input is enough
cedar mica
If excess water is 60m3 and you need 300m3, just add 240m3 from the water exctractors. Rest will work it self out
carmine hazel
@cedar mica have you done it that way....let's see the POC
cedar mica
Have just done it with 1 aluminum refinery. It works, as the extractors fills the refinery, even if it dont give enough m3 per minute. Like a belt, 240/m will still make a 300/m machine work, it just not 100% efficent, till the byproduct joins the mix
harsh fractal
Use unpowered pumps to make sure the input water doesnโt flow into the output pipe that is fed back to input side
grizzled ember
how much fuel does the fuel generator consumes? at full consuption
upbeat tide
Err I was told 13 by greeny, Im not ingame to verify numbers
Well, here is the math
Unless the MJ for fuel has changed, its 750
So,
60*[power output]
MJ of consumed fuel item
60*150= 9000
750
= 12
boreal cloak
Anyone know the equation for power usage on miners? Can't seem to find it on the wiki.
upbeat tide
Multiply the base power by the percentage
upbeat tide
For example if its 5MW, arbitrary figure * 250% = 12.5
At least I think it works that way
boreal cloak
Actually, its not.
Lemme see if the equation is in the source files
Cuz 250% on a mk1 is 21.7MW
upbeat tide
Base?
boreal cloak
5
upbeat tide
Hmm let me see
upbeat tide
Yea theres more to it than straight up percentage * base
boreal cloak
thought so
upbeat tide
It seems
In straight up %, 5*450%=21.5
I think it tallys up all the tiers
Err nvm that doesnt quite add up
boreal cloak
I'ma throw the values on a graph and see if it cant pull an equation out of it
wait
someone mentioned this
(power usage) = (initial power usage) ร (clock speed% / 100%)1.6
lemme test that
nope not close
hmmm idk
wind spade
[power usage] = [base power usage] * ([clock speed / 100] ^ 1.6)
@boreal cloak @upbeat tide
also @upbeat tide fuel energy value is 600 MJ
upbeat tide
Then wiki is wrong then on fuel, ofc ty though
wind spade
(at least if talking about EX)
fuel values are in my item browser https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev
if you want to check them
upbeat tide
Gonna have to bm that, normal wiki isnt halpfuk ๐
wind spade
wiki keeps it's data to EA version
with sometimes adding EX data somewhere in the article with EX notice
upbeat tide
Yea no notice for fuel gens except they use liquid ๐
wind spade
it's exactly 1.6
boreal cloak
really? numbers dont seem to make it 1.6, but I might just be dumb
wind spade
ingame numbers are most likely rounded to some amount of decimal places ๐
but in game data it shows 1.6
boreal cloak
Im doing the calculation and rounding it, so ima just use what my calculator gave me
but thanks for the help!
wind spade
well, if you want exact values, then I'd suggest using 1.6, as that's the value which game uses
(for power generators, it's 1/1.3)
boreal cloak
For 1.6 it gives me under the correct value further away than using my number
wind spade
but the ingame value is rounded
boreal cloak
it is
wind spade
but it still uses the non-rounded value for calculations
boreal cloak
correct
wind spade
so why not use 1.6
boreal cloak
I'll do a check to see which is more accurate in game, then use the more accurate one
wind spade
you can't check it against the displayed values though
boreal cloak
?
wind spade
because they are rounded
boreal cloak
true :/
I mean im rounding mine either way so it doesnt make much of a difference which one I use
wind spade
I mean, having the 1.6 value in game files should be probably enough proof for you, right?
mPowerConsumptionExponent is 1.6
(for any producing building, I just picked manufacturer)
boreal cloak
and the numbers seem to be rounding to 1.6, guess youre right
the rounded values must of messed up the calculation
wind spade
yeah I always calculate with non-rounded values and round them in the final step only
boreal cloak
well I am using numbers off wiki so they are automatically rounded
wind spade
I guess, but https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Clock_speed page has the formula, so you can see how it is calculated ๐
boreal cloak
bruh, I looked for that for like 15 minutes
before I decided to try to calculate it
upbeat tide
Decided to play with numbers and what a mk5 belt can support. Aperantly if I did it right, a mk5 belt full of compacted coal could supply 109 coal gens
boreal cloak
nice
wind spade
compacted coal has 630 MJ, so it burns after 8.4 seconds, or 7.14 compacted coal per minute in one gen. 780 compacted coal/min therefore makes 109.2 generators, so yeah, you're correct
you could do 110 easily, as you won't use 100% of the power most likely
upbeat tide
Was just building some tables for myself, really shows how bad coke is as fuel
wind spade
coke is bad, but it's a nice boost to your power if you use it
since it's essentially free power coming from your oil processing
upbeat tide
780/min of coke can only do 31.2 gens in comparison
scarlet stag
All I know is put the coal in the generator and live
upbeat tide
This isnt FrostPunk ๐
scarlet stag
That is all I need to survive
fallow lily
Hey, coke is better than residual fuel. Especially if you're next to water.
glacial hemlock
Saw your discussion regarding liquid loopback like alu scrap production. Lets say the feedback is 20%. So why not build 5 machines, 4 to handle fresh water and 1 machine for recycled water, then setup a priority system for the scrap output from the 1 machine.
robust vessel
So is there any consensus on which oil processing is best? Should I turn my oil into poly resin and then turn the poly resin into plastic and rubber? or turn the oil directly into plastic / rubber?
left kernel
How do I tell how much a coal generator needs? It shows water consumption rate but not the resource side of things
left kernel
and I presume overclocking levels would be (22.5/min | 30/min | 37.5/min)?
wind spade
nope
it's not linear
20.5/min | 25.6/min | 30.4/min
though there's no reason to overclock generators, just build more of them
left kernel
I see...
robust vessel
hmm looks like the poly -> plastic saves about .12 oil / plastic, but includes an extra step and requires water, so that's pretty no-brainer, I guess
pine quest
Hello! I'm setting up 4 MK2 miners on pure iron nodes, giving 960 iron via MK3 conveyors. This is fed into 4x8 smelters and my intentions is to make that into 20 modular frames per minute. I'm using the casted screw alt.recipie for some sleeker production.
My question is, what's a good way to divide up the iron? I can't find a source online that has the updated recipes from 0.3 and I can't plan without it. Does someone have a good source of info or just the recepies from memory? Specifically, iron plates, iron rods, reinforced iron plate and modular frame?
wind spade
for just recipes, use this https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev
otherwise tools are still in the development
pine quest
Great, thanks!
boreal cloak
oh im made a factory that did that.
Lemme load it up and I can tell you
im currently using the three base normal nodes by spawn on Map 1. So the three together power 12 smelters, which go into 12 constructers half plate half rod, the rods splits between screws and the frames. The plates and screws feed into 6 assemblers making reinforced iron plates, that feed into 10 assemblers making modular frames
They make 20 frames/min
I have buffers in between so I have excess.
Plates have 1 shard per smelter and one per constructor.
Rods are 2 shards per constructor none for smelter, Screws have 1 per constructor.
Assemblers for both R.I. plates and Mod Frames have no shards.
All together thats 24 power shards.
- 4 for the miners depending on if you are using normal nodes with t2 otherwise you have to OC it depending on how much iron you mine
gilded trench
question is, if i oc a constructor to 72 screws, and another for 36 iron plates, why does the assembler (oc to produce 6 per minute) overflow with screws and not getting enough iron plates to make reinf plates?
boreal cloak
if its overclocked to produce 6 per minute thats what 120%?
30 * 1.2 is 36 so it should
you might not be getting enough ingots to the plates?
gilded trench
oh no i have 16 smelters for not even close enough constructors to use it
boreal cloak
And you checked to make sure everything is getting the input necessary right?
sounds like either a bottleneck somewhere, or its not actually oc and just glitched
glacial hemlock
Manifold is the answer to everything
boreal cloak
^
gilded trench
checked everything, its all smelting properly, nothing clogged up and still
what is manifold?
glacial hemlock
TTTTTTTTTT
wind spade
mine is neater ๐
gilded trench
but im doing that since greeny told me to do it
but ocd kicked in and i needed two less constructor, so i oc-d ๐
maybe i didnt wait long enough to see everything to normalize
boreal cloak
could be, wont go to full efficiency until it fills
gilded trench
i have 16 smelters going into 16 constructors, thats way too much iron
boreal cloak
thats not enough
gilded trench
screws take 12,5 per min
boreal cloak
its never enough
gilded trench
8 of those take 12,5 each for screws
even if every constructor takes 30 is still equal to production
glacial hemlock
Everything below 100turbo motors/min is not enough.
gilded trench
and only thing that takes that much is iron plates, thats only one constructor making that, rest is 12.5 or 15 per minute
willow igloo
Later you'll find alternate recipes to use less iron ore to make ingots and less ingots to make your other products. Purified copper ingot for instance uses water as an ingredient but will produce 2.5 copper ingot for each copper ore. Some alternate recipes are meh, but others like cast iron screws are amazing for saving resources
glacial hemlock
Screw-related recipes save time, but uses slightly more iron per recipe
robust vessel
anyone know off-hand what the burn rate for turbofuel is?
sullen cloud
4.5/min
upbeat tide
Turbo is nuts, a 300m3 supply can keep 66 gens happy
dawn lark
100 turbo motors / min owo?!
elfin spoke
Which is better, Alternate: Heavy Flexible Frame or Alternate: Heavy Encased Frame?
dawn lark
I prefer encased, but might need to try looking into flexible
pale jetty
especially nice with Alternate: Encased Industrial Pipe
elfin spoke
That's already the setup I was using so nice I guess
And what about the new pure ressources?
fossil raptor
im having a problem with oil production, i cant find a way to make 165 plastic / minute without making fuel that i cant use or heavy oil residue
shy mason
Water ponds deep enough for the extractor are hard to find and the 300m3/m limit of pipes limits how far you can take them to where you need them, as well as extra electric costs for a refiner compared to a smelter and any pumps you need to lift the liquids
If its late game and you have a nice set up on coast or few lakes not already full of extractors for power generators, go for it.
sand garnet
@fossil raptor fuel you can't use?
fossil raptor
i dont have fuel generators yet
sand garnet
then just temporarily make a bunch of fluid storage tanks
and every once in a while, flush them to keep production going
until you have enough materials to unlock fuel gens and actually fix the problem properly
fossil raptor
ill guess ill fix the problem properly then i guess
cause i just need to wait for my heavy modular frames to be done
or nvrmind
i need 100 computers
i guess ill just hand craft those for now
or make a temporary computer production
tough eagle
Just make a temporary setup converting it to coke and sink that. It's an alternative that at least gives you something back (coupons) until you get where you want
fossil raptor
thanks for the help, atleast i dont need to keep flushing my fluid buffers every 10 minutes for 1 hour
covert tendon
theres a computer recipe that only requires a assembler*
storm ingot
You can try verifying a pipe bubbler overflow. Unconfirmed by myself, but others testing apparently have pipes drain from top down.
So if you have two pipes vertically junctioned off one with a X, but more demand than capacity, top pipe apparently run reduced capacity and bottom stays full
fallow lily
Pipe physics are weird.
covert tendon
i think they need to explain it better
storm ingot
If this is true, then can split a pipe vertically off at highest point and put into something to consume it. Would keep your main line at max capacity with this overflow consuming it to be made into awesome
fading ember
How much fuel rods use nuclear generator?
sand garnet
it used to be 1 per 5 min
so 0.2 per min
not sure if that's the case in update 3 though
fierce ruin
still 1 per 5 min
sand garnet
thanks for confirming
fierce ruin
with one uranium node you can sustain 157 nuclear powerplants + 1 at 50% underclock
though using alternate recipes
carmine thicket
Holy crap lol
shy mason
Now can we use all that power with the sink now
covert tendon
supercharged sink
wind spade
No bus plz
storm ingot
magnificentfolds the way to go. And who uses buff. eww. Shun the skybase :-p
thorn tusk
Why no bus greeny
wind spade
because dedicated factories ftw
with bus you'll struggle to count how many items are there on each belt
shy mason
And only way you can control it is setting the feed to mk1 belt and 60 items per belt
thorn tusk
Bus is very useful if it has more than enough input
wind spade
then you're overproducing, which isn't useful
it's better to just build a factory where the nodes are, make final product and ship that into a storage
wind spade
or you can just not do any of that useless extra work and build the factory based on a fixed input
thorn tusk
It could be more compact
I see no reason why not to use a central storage where you can extract items you need for anywhere in the base
fierce ruin
would be so much extra work when you can build dedicated factorys
thorn tusk
Maybe
thorn tusk
Well im gonna do whatever works when I get to that stage
I don't have either so I can't really give any arguments about benefits and negatives
fierce ruin
i build a bus with my first base. at around supercomputers/turbomtors it got so big and confusing with so many belts that i just deletet the whole stuff and build evrything new
thorn tusk
I'll see when I need to get a new base set up because this starter base in the jungle ain't gonna do
fierce ruin
currently im planning out refinery areas for each ore and my beaches are getting covered with foundations ๐
unborn ermine
Im about to start aluminum and I love the fact that doing the math with the 3 nodes in the swamp just works.
The 3 nodes max capacity with mk3 miners can support 18 alu refineries, 6 scrap refineries, and 9 foundries for ingots. (on mk4 belts though)
Thanks coupon shop for the parts to start! ๐
Theres figuring the waste out but, meh
last fable
let's quickly define a bus before going into the argument: bus in computer science terms means a shared medium that every participant can use to send to every other participant so I doubt that's what you had in mind
wind spade
bus in satisfactory isn't defined by computer science terms tho
oblique hollow
Bus is just the "transmission (of data) between multiple partners using a common medium"
unborn ermine
I use the short bus.
oblique hollow
so thats accurate to me
unborn ermine
I send bits and bobs on mini busses around.
wind spade
since bus in SF is one-directional only
last fable
so basically when you say bus you mean a giant manifold that has a big merger to start it off?
wind spade
theoretically bus can be defined like a manifold that's splitting to manifolds ๐ yeah
but I'd add that bus is multiple belts going in pararell
with different items
oblique hollow
technically a bus here is just a parallel transmission of multiple things on "one" line, not one belt
tbh if you view a bus in satisfactory it kinda looks the same as this
wind spade
almost
oblique hollow
just one-directional, of course
wind spade
the issue is, that the "data bus", "address bus" and "control bus" are single direction only
unless you make a loop
which if you do, you deserve 
oblique hollow
i dont lรถรถp
gilded quarry
Satisfactory busses don't quite work as well as factorio busses do.
clear citrus
Math and "meta"? What constitutes the "meta" in this game? Only thing I can think of is plastic with fuel byproduct vs fuel with plastic byproduct
wind spade
meta = playstyle considered most efficient or subjectively best
clear citrus
Yes I know what the word is, how it applies here is what's got me off
wind spade
that includes building style, ratios, alternate recipe choices
clear citrus
...why did the bot put that there
wind spade
because he can
unreal echo
math check- you need 200 heavy modular frames to make 100 ACUS, yes?
gleaming ermine
15x automated wiring
10x circuit board
2x heavy modular frame
2x computer
...makes...
2x adaptive control unit
@unreal echo
1:1 ratio
unreal echo
thank you so much
gleaming ermine
According to the wiki (may not be updated to experimental)
unreal echo
burden off my shoulders and power plant, ihad enough HMFs from my last teardown to break through the Tier 7+ milestine
gleaming ermine
Nice
tall stratus
Or just let your Manufacturers work at 20% and go explore for more resources
ebon lynx
Anyone know if there is a way to make satisfactory calculator work with input instead of desired output?
Like if I want to see how much steel beams I can make from 3 normal coal and 1 pure iron nodes
sand garnet
for experimental? or early access version?
glacial hemlock
@clear citrus the plastic production can be far more complicated than you think.
clear citrus
set up oil, make plastic, run byproduct to make fuel, use fuel for power, if you don't burn fuel fast enough occasionally drain system.
set up oil, make fuel run byproduct to make plastic, send overflow to sink so it doesn't back up.
glacial hemlock
There is a way to set up plastic such that the only byproduct is empty canister ๐
upbeat tide
Oil:
Plastic โ|__ petro coke
Rubber -|
Use coke in coal gens, alt steel, alu, etc
Or get the heavy turbo alt works wonders too
upbeat tide
My current oil build with all its parts
6x normal oil nodes feeding 3 full pipes, 900m3 total crude
10 plastic
10 rubber
5 fuel
5 coke
5 residual plastic
I consume all 300/min coke in a steel alt
I currently consume 175 plastic/min
90 rubber/ min
Feed 13 fuel gens, 200/min fuel production
Fuel is gonna be turned into turbo soon and another 8 refineries are gonna be needed for that. Make enough turbo for 32 gens
glacial hemlock
You could overclock your oil node.
glacial hemlock
Oh, thats a impure node
unborn ermine
Pretty much the same setup at my area (south of dune desert).
Although I'm setting up turbofuel production with one of the 300mยณ lines using the heavy alt recipe.
You can sneak a couple water extractors by the geo-gens @upbeat tide and cheese some water based recipes if you havent already ๐
If thats the same area, there is the same node setup to the west so I could be wrong.
upbeat tide
Mine is in the far southeast corner
unborn ermine
Oh the blue spider den area.
stark lichen
I see people send coke to sinks but rarely hear that they burn it in coal gens
upbeat tide
I call it the pond with giant mushroom trees but yea spiders too
Because it sucks in coal gens, 25/min
stark lichen
it should cover most of the cost of making plastic with the vanilla recipe, though
unborn ermine
So, just for giggles I found out you can bootstrap a production line of compact coal and pump 3 nodes at max cap in this area using a Geo-gen to start ๐
The short of it.
2 sulphur nodes to the south and the one nearby pure coal node can supply 18 assemblers making compact coal (two for 7 coal gens) and 30 extra coal for 2 more gens.
This provides enough power for the assemblers and the 3 oil nodes nearby at 250% OC
stark lichen
Good place to make turbofuel
unborn ermine
Keeping in mind too, that would be before aluminum.
iirc you have 40MW to spare 
The things you do when you are setting up powerlines for geo gens ๐
upbeat tide
Alu is why im gonna stick with normal turbo for now, unless I find an alt that bypasses coke needs
Speaking of geysers, any of yours work? I get N/A when trying to use em
cedar mica
Coke and Coal, should be switchable with the right alt
upbeat tide
Koo
unborn ermine
Right now by the south dune desert nodes, setting up a platform under my refineries for fuel gens.
You can guess I was super happy I can fit the gens AND cover up the ~~ugly ~~ non-factory-compliant landscape parts you cant remove ๐
clear citrus
are the alts to make iron's things out of steel actually worth it?
clear citrus
Idk if solid steel is a thing I haven't heard of yet but I mean like rods and screws
upbeat tide
Err which one are you talking about then?
Solid steel is a alt that uses 40 iron ingots and 40 coal ore and makes 60 steel
clear citrus
the recipes to take steel ingots and make screws and rods
upbeat tide
Aah I use steel screws ocassionally when I am using the bolted plates, bolted frames recipies
unborn ermine
Hmm, I like the steel recipes BUT I still have to refactor my base to work for aluminum processes/expansion.
Rods for example would be a great way to branch off of an existing line of beams that arent being used at the same rates as pre oil/after trains are setup
I messed up my logic there a bit.
Remembering wrong recipes off hand
Its defo a way to provide, especially if you go hard on steel production late game.
ie no more reason to have iron ingot lines
upbeat tide
Its also the hest ratio for steel. Seeing as a beam constructor sucks up 60/min, one solid steel will keep that happy
glacial hemlock
I will leave the best spot in the north for nuclear instead.
green ravine
I made this diagram, what do you guys think? https://i.imgur.com/bOTf9Fm.png
Altho it has some excess in screws and ingots, I'm not sure if there's a reasonable way to save that without going bigger, which is not something i want to do atm as i just unlocked steel. haven't actually gotten to mk3 belts
glacial hemlock
I am quite against overexpansion before obtaining MK3 belts.
And you will get alt recipes anyway, so all these massive factory is gonna be tear down later on
green ravine
I wouldn't say this is massive. If i went massive i would go for 60 reinforced plates output. 60 modular frame
upbeat tide
If I did the math right, with alt recipies you could get 10 mod frames a min off 240 iron ingots a min
green ravine
ye, but atm I would have to underclock each assembler bc base is 140 screws / min, which i can't do at this time
Im a derp, I messed my last msg up. I meant was, I would be making 10 mod frames a min, but i have to underclock it / can't give it the full 140 bc im stuck with 120 belts
shy mason
Yeah the bolted plates and frames are great recipes once you can meet the screw throughput
Decreases alot on the number of machines you need, especially with steel screws
tight lintel
Man, waaay to many screws to make 2 manufacturers of adaptive controle unit, holy shit
stuck stratus
that's an incentive to find alts for the frames and computers
actually wait it's only 304/m for 2 ACU/m, if i'm doing my math right
tight lintel
Tbh havent.relly botherd with it hhe, and my production is so intertwined now its a big job to just alter stuff at.thisnpoint
Its sround 800 i think
blazing yew
tight lintel
Thing is i dident know.when i made the production line hhe
stuck stratus
i'm looking at https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev/items/adaptive-control-unit, each ACU manu only takes 1/m on HMF and comp, so only need manu each of those for 2 ACU
erm 1* each HMF and computer to 2 ACU manu
tight lintel
The sinner is modular frames and hardend plates
I haven the both from the same output so i kinda screwd myself, no pun intended hhe
drifting jay
Iโm a steel screw convert. Was wary because steel production is more intensive than straight iron ingots, but having low density inputs to high density outputs you can have on site is incredible
My computer manufacturer has one constructor at the head supplying all the screws it needs. Itโs glorious
paper mauve
steel screws are amazing
also 1 less constructor
wait no it's not
I still love them lol
boreal cloak
if you have the ability to make steel at the place you are doing it, steel screws are 100% worth it
glacial hemlock
It only hurts if you have hit your coal limit
iron notch
is the satisfactory calculator updated for planning?
sand garnet
I yhink that one doesnt do byproducts?
stuck stratus
it doesn't, stated limitation in the about page, but it works for everything non-oil at least
full raptor
Is there a 'best' way to split a single line of resources into x machines?
fallow lily
Chaining splitters.
Thatโs generally what people do.
So build a line of machines, splitters feeding into each, and running a single belt through the splitters.
glacial hemlock
Manifold. Or ๐ฒ ๐ฆ ๐ณ ๐ฎ ๐ซ ๐ด ๐ฑ ๐ฉ
full raptor
okay cool just making sure. that's what I'm doing
somber otter
i spent ages balancing lanes... new belts mean i have to rip everything apart
upbeat tide
Someone should probably pin a manifold example
Source โ S โ S โ S โ S
| | | |
A A A A
| | | |
M - M - M - M โ exit
S= splitter
A= foundary, constructor, etc
M = merger
For those who need more info
sand garnet
Source โ S โ S โ S โ S
| | | |
A A A A
| | | |
M - M - M - M โ exit
| | | |
A A A A
| | | |
Source โ S โ S โ S โ S
For double manifold
upbeat tide
I also prefer this way for constructors
M - M - M - M - exit
| | | |
C C C C
| | | |
Source โ S โ S โ S โ S
| | | |
C C C C
| | | |
M - M - M - M - exit
I use that for steel alot, also same items, just merge the two halves if its the same product
fierce ruin
I don't like this kind, the materials are not evenly distributed
stuck stratus
unless you're consuming more than supplying, they'll even out in time
fierce ruin
I certainly use more splitter, but each C have the same amount of material input
I try to consume the same amount i produce
stuck stratus
balancers let all machines start working sooner, sure, but manifolds are expandable
fallow lily
Space efficiency and simplicity are my main reasons for using manifolds.
stuck stratus
the only case i could justify a balancer would be for nuclear, since fuel rods are crafted so very slowly
full raptor
I noticed that with manifold, once the crafting machines reach maximum inputs, it evens out well
so there is ramp time before it works
upbeat tide
How are mats not evenly distributed? Lets say they are all crete constructors and you are supplying enough for all?
fierce ruin
I see
upbeat tide
Even a mixed setup like steel pipes and beams works well with a split manifold like that, despite different usage rates.
I put beams on one side and pipes on other
untold crown
refinery taking 20MW less power is quite a big release on the power grid
full raptor
Does the satisfactory map locate feature work ?
nothing happens when I click locate me
full raptor
you're the man. ty
glacial hemlock
Great, now the updates come, time to re-evaluate all the alts.
My recycle-recycled plastic production is broken now
Imo the greatest mid-game alt is the diluted fuel. I am curious how the ratios are going to change.
shy mason
good thing i just now got to my refinery in my second restart, though the bolted plat is going to mess up my HMF factory i just built up
oblique hollow
thankfully none of those changes affect my Graphs, im in the clear for now
glacial hemlock
Diluted fuel is only bad in terms of power consumption. In all other aspects, it is quite good
quick gorge
Refinery 50mw to 30mw yeeeฤรฉeet
gusty cape
So do you guys think that a closed loop pipe system would work best for fuel generators? does each pipe section try and level out the amount being pumped into it? Also how would you add more flow to it? I have eight refineries pumping turbo fuel into some 60 fuel generators. My flow rate will not go above 140
glacial hemlock
Make sure your gens are running at their full rate
gusty cape
they are not, the furthest ones away are struggling to keep up hence adding in a closed loop system
making 262 m^3
hmm, thats 58.3 generators.
oblique hollow
use a buffer to reset the flow rate
gusty cape
so I need more turbofuel
oblique hollow
since they will always try to output at 300, but they need to be filled fast enough
gusty cape
I have bladders in line before the generators
gusty cape
no god no
oblique hollow
add an unpowered pump at the tank exit
since buildings behave oddly
and generate a ridiculous opposite pressure ( at least coal gens do)
swift grail
ok so it takes 30/m oil to make rubber so 300/30 is 10 refineries right?... so why does the system conk out at doing 4 and slow its flow rate
stuck stratus
check the pipe feeding in, probably needs a pump
swift grail
hm?
stuck stratus
if you're producing 300/m oil, and can consume that 300/m oil, the pipeline itself is the issue
shy mason
how much higher is your refineries compared to the initial extractors?
stuck stratus
which means you need at least 1 pipeline pump between the extractor and the refineries, maybe more
swift grail
i got fed up and slapped 15 pumps in a row to see if ti does anything... nothing its 300/m up the first refinery, fill it up ands like ok my job here is done and stops flowing
untold crown
pumps are only needed when you exceed a vertical lift of more than 10 meters from your oil exctractor or 20 meters from a previous pump
swift grail
i know i just wanted to see
untold crown
are you sure you provide 300 oil?
swift grail
yes 400% sure
untold crown
how long has it been running?
maybe the buffers inside the refinerys need to fill up
swift grail
its been about 3 hours
tight phoenix
@swift grail have you installed the latest update from 2 hours ago?
because now rubber recipe produces 2x more heavy oil residue (and plastic 2x less)
unborn ermine
So. They swapped the heavy oil outputs for rubber/plastic from oil.
This means my coke output is fine buuuut, the line that makes turbo now has an excess of resin(plastic for the 130/min resin instead)
Thank god I made a overflow ๐
tight phoenix
@unborn ermine also, all the recipes that use heavy oil and resin run twice faster now
swift grail
@tight phoenix no, but that doesn't really effect the initial problem
unborn ermine
Yeah its gunna be fun finding out what and how much to fix
swift grail
actually this just means i need more refineries lol
tight phoenix
@unborn ermine well, most things should work fine or better, the only necessary fix might be to handle the double output from the refineries that make use of the rubber's heavy oil residue byproduct, and maybe check for pipe bottlenecks
unborn ermine
Actually this isnt too-too bad, I can maybe keep my butt safe by swapping some of the refineries from heavy oil alts(now 40mยณ/min) to plastic. The 10 refineries jumped 100mยณ/min up
Welp, easiest route is to have 6 plastic and 6 heavy now, 2 more refineries instead to get an even 300mยณ
Looking at other recipes might make it easier. Yay math \o/
The second evil, using polymer and having to deal with 650/min flow ๐
oblique hollow
ive recently decided to use the resin to make plastic and turn half of it into canisters, fill them and sink them
unborn ermine
I might just say screw it and expand my turbo production to match
400mยณ/min is literally just not merging my two refinery lines. Just need more compact coal.
Would just have to deal with excess heavy at that point
sand garnet
@oblique hollow why sink them? Why not jetpack fuel?
unborn ermine
Basically sinking them when a crate is full
oblique hollow
oh i am storing them, but once my storage is full the rest get sinked
unborn ermine
๐
oblique hollow
which is why ive finally found a proper use for the CIGOS
unborn ermine
Thats the only way I can kinda keep my system in check, sink lines
oblique hollow
the only thing im concerend about is that my packaging refinery could pull too much excess fuel, but its not really doing that so all is fine
its actually matching the output of my 2 fuel refs
tight phoenix
the two alt recipes that only produce heavy oil residue and polymer resin just got so much better
errant garden
@untold crown you don't need to put a pump every twenty meters provided it isn't verticle
untold crown
as i said, vertical lift, not horizontal
fallow lily
Hmm. So residual fuel and petroleum coke run twice as fast now?
120/minute for coke and 40/minute for residual fuel?
glacial hemlock
Diluted fuel has become much more useful
I am going to put 67% of water in all the oil barrels! Hehehe
fallow lily
Math time. For 120 heavy oil residue/minute.
Coke - 360/minute. 1080 MW of coal generators. 14.4 coal generators. Needs 5.4 water extractors. Round up to 6. 120 MW of extractors, plus 90 MW for the refineries.
870 MW net, 80.6% efficient.
Residual fuel: 80/minute. 800 MW of power. Needs two refineries and 60 MW.
740 MW net, 92.5% efficient.
glacial hemlock
120 dilutes into 240fuel/min then become 200turbofuel/min
fallow lily
Big boost to fuel here.
Iโm not doing the math for turbofuel, so I donโt really care.
unborn ermine
Complaining DOES work 
oblique hollow
the QA site is proof enough
full raptor
Is there a way to prioritize the output of a splitter?
fallow lily
No.
full raptor
okay
stuck stratus
you can use maths to kiiinda make a priority splitter, but it's ugly
full raptor
well chain splitters and all that jazz yea
but was more interested in if smart splitters do it when i get there
oblique hollow
my smart splitter setup does some funky priority stuff soo
the smarties alone dont do priority, however you can incorporate them into a circuit that has 2 ouputs: 1 priority output and an overflow that receives items once the other side is full
full raptor
I see. Interesting
outer skiff
Did anyone run the math on overclocking power buildings?
is it diminishing returns per unit of fuel?
unborn ermine
As I keep hearing, its bad in general, but I cant remember the exact reasons. ๐
fallow lily
Overclocking generators does not change their efficiency, just their peak output.
shy mason
if you spend three shards to oc, you get twice the power with twice the resource usage rate per machine
you get the same effect just by making another machine of the same type
unborn ermine
Ok I'm happy with this balance patch so far, cleaned the oil area up a metric F-ton. (even though I had to rework it for the 5th time ๐ )
quick gorge
Balancing yay
unborn ermine
The fun part is going back to my older buildings to remake factories, was planning that out earlier.
Only an hour or so wasted
rancid lark
ya, the front end of my oil processing to fuel/turbo fuel was unaffected and it simplified the remaining oil processing quite a bit that I was working on next. good balance change imo
raven salmon
@shy mason not true anymore, now if you use 3 shards on a nuke plant u get 6250MW instead of around 5000 before up3
but rods only last around 78secs afaik
viscid raft
You really shouldnt powershard your powerplants
Have we redone the math for maximum reactors since U3 rebalance?
unborn ermine
I had a funky ratio setup for extra heavy oil output using diluted fuel, with the change, my little split for extra is set for "perfect" ratios ๐
viscid raft
Im getting 1800 ore, into 1800 pellets, into 450 cells, into 27 NFR, per minute
honest willow
with the alternates you can get 1400 cells and 84 nuclear fuel rods per minute
viscid raft
on update 3?
viscid raft
ahhh, i wasnt looking in my manufact recipe for cells, mybad
mortal gust
Umm.. Where did all good math and meta sites go?
I don't get the pinned ones to work as i want?
untold crown
update 3 changed so much that they are still updating
proven sphinx
is there any calculations on how long a train uses to load/unload?
viscid raft
pellets at 1800 per minute into alt cells at 20 per minute is 90 facts, making 17.5 cells. or 1575 cells per minute.
no?
unborn ermine
I saved a chart greeny kept posting I unfortunately lost the meaning behind it, other than trains @proven sphinx
proven sphinx
Thank you!
unborn ermine
noted That is for that ๐
honest willow
you're right
shy mason
that's essentially the time it takes for the belts to empty out the train car, and any trip times more than the time posted will have the train be the bottleneck instead of loading/unloading belts speeds
honest willow
and then 94.5 fuel rods per minute which allows for 472.5 reactors and 1,181.25 GW of power
viscid raft
1575 / 25 per minute makes an even 63 manufacts making 1.5 NFR per minute needing 189 powershards for a total of 94.5 NFR per minute, x5 for 472 reactors.
need to do a prime factorization on 472 so i can make balanced shapes...
rancid lark
ouch, 59
honest willow
now calculate the net power you get from all the nuclear
viscid raft
468 gives most opportunities for clean shapes. could have 3 sites of cubes of 12x13 reactors near their uranium nodes.
problem 2 is water
trains into water towers is the best way to be energy conservative
i have a trickledown system i like
fierce ruin
how much water you got pumping?
viscid raft
right now, not much. designing systems first before i set up a water train hub
but 300/minute at full load is going to suck
thankfully you can get away with less at less efficency
fierce ruin
where you buidling the reactors? hopefully near water im assuming
over the water is best idea. have pumps under neath with only a little bit of sorting to go directly into reactors
viscid raft
youd think...
viscid raft
but uh.... when you need 5 pumps per 2 reactors... at 420 reactors (my old, possibly current plan)
...you need pumps all over the map bringing water to water towers above the reactors to trickle the water down
one sec and ill attach an image to illustrate the problem
fierce ruin
i forgot about the power for the pumps goddamn.....
fierce ruin
figure out the water first. thats clearly you're biggest issue
viscid raft
"The Great Mandala: Project Peach Trees, a Nuclear Treehouse for Modern Monkeys"
fierce ruin
pump water to the top in bulk, sort it out up there (somehow) then triickle down. thats gonna be a nightmare though so good luck
viscid raft
trains are litterally easier and cheaper than pumps
viscid raft
at 28 lines per tower, 4mw per 20m is easily 98 pumps per line, totally 2744 pumps per tower totaling 10976MW of power, per tower, feeding just water
across 35 towers is enough to offset most the gains from using nuclear power
fierce ruin
its times like these im greatful to god on earth that splitters and mergers dont need power
fierce ruin
you're scaring the children @viscid raft
fierce ruin
a rain collection system would work so well rn
fierce ruin
nice
viscid raft
RAIN COLLECTION. AUGH. I WISH.
viscid raft
I used to spend 600 fuel per hour building these concrete monoliths that are an affront against god. I used to have a train bring me a cart from one side of the map to the other, just for jetpack fuel. So zoomtubes are ๐ ฐ๏ธ ๐ with me. #thankthedevs
fierce ruin
hypertubes are the one thing i can mathematically understand in update 3 lmao
everythiing else is WAY too confusing for me
like physics, air resistance, gaining speed in certain directions, thats my jam
viscid raft
water is the biggest ouf. if it was 100 for a reactor i would be A-OK, then 5 pumps could run 6 reactors.
rancid lark
likely there might be a balance change for nuclear in the future too
viscid raft
oh probably
alternatively, if freight cars could haul 600/1200 water, that would solve a lot of my current problem.
honest willow
i imagine they are balanced around mk2/3 pipe stuff
viscid raft
hopefully
rancid lark
they can haul 3200 packaged water, not sure why they can't haul similar fluid water ๐
viscid raft
cause oil pumps imply 600 per minute pipes
thats likely a balance thing
i would like to see mk1/mk2 freight cars, and packaged water stack size reduced.
fierce ruin
I wanna see improved pipes that can hold more water
viscid raft
mk1 freight cars could carry a regular bin or fluid buffer, mk2 freight cars would carry an industrial bin or buffer
fierce ruin
plus maybe even a mk2 pump to push this increased amount of water
viscid raft
improved pipes would have to be "bigger" because speed should be set based on the amound of pumps in the line or number of pumping sources like refineries.
but for now they are just reskined conveyours
fierce ruin
Improved pipesss with more storage, improved pumps able to push more, and improved water extractors that produce more water
definitely bigger pipes
viscid raft
my guess is that pipes here works how underground belts worked in factorio, they were technically chests that only output on the other side when they were full, and chest size depended on their length.
fierce ruin
I think they should try a different method for that
trying to worry a bit more about the pipes inbetween the entrance and exit
unborn ermine
Did you check the math out for packaged water @viscid raft ? They said they increased rates for pack/unpack. Its 120mยณ/min for unpack now
fierce ruin
Factorio had no third dimension to worry about. Satisfactory had to add a pumping system for the whole vertiical partt of pipes
viscid raft
thats still 5 unpackers per 2 reactors at 30mw each.
5x210x30 is 31,500MW
viscid raft
gravity is the answer
unborn ermine
Yeah at that, pumps still do the work, at the needed cost.
viscid raft
this is my trickle track, it carries water down the tower adjacent to the reactor leafs that need it
gravity does all the work, and i only have to run a couple trains to fill a 8400 buffer of water. then, each reactor has its own 300 buffer
each one looks a little like this
if you have seen me ask for trainstations to have the edge of the platform trimmed, this is why, this "deadspace" could be used for buffers or fluid pipes
if you have seen me ask for freight stations and carts to be able to buffer more that 500, this is why. Because it means i need weird numbers of stations to feed reactors. for my setup multiples of 300 are important. at 600 i could use 3 and a half stations per tower, meaning my current setup of 9 is cut down by 3 platforms which i could use as empty platforms for engines, making my trains faster and shorter.
this is a roughdraft of my fluid buffer system, this way all the lines are balanced and organized before letting gravity take over.
Each tree (currently) needs 8400 water, where each of the four leaf stacks holds 7 reactors for 2100 water at 300 each.
each train will fill a columns worth of trees, thereby needing 5 trains for each of the columns, approximately 20 carts long, depending on frieght car cargo size.
Eventually i will build a central water station where trains bring water to a central buffer that will feed the massive 20-cart trains, which will run as often as possible.
Before anyone asks, in previous pictures this section of my map was default orange, yes i used the interactive map tool to paint everything white because i was spending so much time in the area that the orange was driving me crazy, now everything is clean... and sterile... and calm... in my swamp ๐
That's all i have time for right now, but if you would like to question my sanity or ask for tips on how you can undertake something similarly self-punishing, be my guest and throw me a message.
covert tendon
is oil easier to math now
summer field
Says so right in the machine, 4 seconds per coal, at max consumption, so at most, 15 per minute.
sand garnet
it does
paper mauve
It shows how long it takes the coal to burn at max consumption which is 4 seconds. To convert that to coal per minute, 60 seconds in a minute, so 60 / 4 = 15 coal burned per minute at max consumption.
fallow lily
] Nemoricus: Math time. For 120 heavy oil residue/minute.
Coke - 360/minute. 1080 MW of coal generators. 14.4 coal generators. Needs 5.4 water extractors. Round up to 6. 120 MW of extractors, plus 90 MW for the refineries.
870 MW net, 80.6% efficient.
[12:59 PM] Nemoricus: Residual fuel: 80/minute. 800 MW of power. Needs two refineries and 60 MW.
740 MW net, 92.5% efficient.
@wind spade
wind spade
first thing - I don't like the rounding up, since that's a bit unfair
the 6th generator won't run at full speed
outer skiff
For coal, 24 gens need 9 pumps exactly
fallow lily
Okay, I see where I got one thing crossed. Coke is still more net power.
outer skiff
Yah
fallow lily
Significantly so. It's just less efficient for input megawatts to output, but who cares?
wind spade
that's why I calculate with MJ and not MW
the efficiency is a good thing to care about if you're making the product from scratch
outer skiff
Thing is tho, fuel gens dont need water,which frees up water for other stuff
fallow lily
You're never short of water.
wind spade
@outer skiff not like water is limited lol
fallow lily
So that's not a consideration.
outer skiff
Well space and added complexity
fallow lily
Now that's more fair.
frosty portal
If you hate working with water like me, then its worth it run the HOR into Fuel
steep gazelle
it does cut effeciency by cutting into your output mw or mj
wind spade
also there's a big plus for coke - you can sink it, preventing HOR to overflow and shut down your production
fallow lily
But just about all of the oil patches are next to water.
outer skiff
You are more geogrqphically tied with coal gens
fallow lily
So needing water isn't exactly a big deal.
unreal echo
quick question- about how fast do trains load/unload?
fallow lily
25 seconds to load, 25 to unload.
outer skiff
True
unreal echo
thank you!
wind spade
@frosty portal so instead of working with water, you work with another liquid (being the same hassle, actually even more because you need to sort out overflow protection)
I don't see that being an advantage
@fallow lily don't they load/unload instantly and the animation is just that long?
or they changed it?
outer skiff
Well you could just void the hor?
fallow lily
Does it matter? The train won't move until it's done.
wind spade
ah, because before the train loaded/unloaded instantly and then immediatelly left the station
outer skiff
Saves energy in turning it into coke
outer skiff
Oh
fallow lily
I mean, I could be wrong, but people talk about trains taking 25 seconds at each end for the station animation.
steep gazelle
you can flush the pipe network thats about it
outer skiff
I thought hor wasnt liquid when it came out..
fallow lily
It's liquid.
outer skiff
That is actually an issue
frosty portal
You need alot of Tanks, and to flush them manually, so its hardly an "automatic" option
fallow lily
And if you're not flushing, you have to package the liquid before you can sink it.
outer skiff
It could be resolved if you could set certain generators to run always or run as baseline power
yah
frosty portal
wait, you can set certain generators to not always be on?
outer skiff
Nope
fallow lily
You can't. That's the point.
frosty portal
ohh, your saying if that was in the game
outer skiff
But if you could set those kinds of priorities it would allow for more flexability in the power systems
That said
fallow lily
The fact that coke beats fuel for power means I'm not going to worry about how to sink it.
(I don't know about turbofuel, and I need to find two alts before I can use it, so I haven't bothered to run numbers on that.)
outer skiff
I think they will implement some sort of fix for that tho
fallow lily
It's weird that coke is about 20% more power than fuel, though.
That's a pretty big difference.
outer skiff
Its either an oversight, or a reward for dealing with the added complexity of coal gens.
frosty portal
Which Fuel does the Jetpack require?
fallow lily
Fuel fuel.
outer skiff
Oil based fuel
fallow lily
Devs, disambiguation please.
outer skiff
Just called fuel
frosty portal
Anyone else bothered by the way the inventory at max size, is 2 squares short of being a full line?
outer skiff
Nope
gleaming rain
what's considered the best overflow splitter at the moment, I have access to standard and smart splitters, but im looking for an overflow design that ONLY sends to overflow if full
paper mauve
@gleaming rain I think this is what you're looking for.
@oblique hollow posted this yesterday
outer skiff
O.o
oblique hollow
oh yes, the CIGO
Greenys train overflow is also good, but i guess mine is the most compact one
untold crown
this is also an option but it has an error overflow of 1.04166666%
error gets smaller if you add more splitter merger pairs. nice thing about this one is that you can stack it
oblique hollow
Howerver that design is bigger
oblique hollow
this is the most ive been able to compress the CIGO, 2 foundations
gleaming rain
this is also an option but it has an error overflow of 1.04166666%
@untold crown that's what i've been doing, albeit with a slightly larger percent, ~1% is acceptable to me considering how small it is though
untold crown
yeah i made mine a bit overkill with only 0.1302083333%
gleaming rain
damn 2 foundation is amazing small
untold crown
@oblique hollow do you get the full mk4 belt throughput though?
oblique hollow
mk 3 on overflow, and mk whatever on normal output. i do believe if you use mk 5 and 4, you get mk4 Overflow output
thats the only downside i know off
untold crown
ah ok
oblique hollow
The Overflow is one Mk slower than the input
untold crown
since you need the mkX-1 belt on the input
untold crown
yeah i see
oblique hollow
here, top down view
hexed jungle
can someone ELI5 how that actually works?
oblique hollow
Smart Splitter wants to go left, middle then right. Plastic says "no" and it goes right(or left) until full
More technical: the plastic forces the smart splitter to skip a side
oblique hollow
bitte schon very much
foggy mica
does anyone have the new values on the alternate recipe Oil -> Heavy Oil Residue + Polymer Resin
harsh fractal
Does it have to be plastic or just anything that blocks the flow?
glacial hemlock
Anything
outer skiff
The ye oldy solution is to have a lot of buffer and empty it manually
oblique hollow
Uh if you guys meant the CIGO, you can choose anything as the cycling material. I just chose plastic because i had that at hand at the time of creating it
mortal rapids
does anybody have the ratio for rotors including how to split them between the constructors? Edit: I meant creating rotors and the ratio for the rods to screws.
elfin spoke
Does anyone have the old alternates recipes values anywhere?
untold crown
@elfin spoke maybe https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev isn't updated to the new values yet?
wind spade
it is