Why not let each train take at least 2 ores?
#math-and-meta
quick gorge
Well I might do but for now I'm happy with separate trains..racist trains, they don't allow iron on this train....
oblique hollow
Segregation Trains
near hatch
anyone knows how to balance 1 belt to 5 ?
wind spade
--S--S--S--S--S
| | | | |
X X X X X
S = splitter
X = machine
oblique hollow
Isnt that unbalanced?
wind spade
it will fill up and then overflow to others
if you have enough input to feed 5 machines, it will eventually balance itself
near hatch
ive just enough materials
wind spade
yeah, then you should be fine
also, this system is super easy to expand, compared to any balancer you could build
wind spade
that isn't balanced
wind spade
I mean yeah, it will eventually balanced because it will overflow
near hatch
here its 25% - 12,5% - 25% - 12,5% - 25%
wind spade
but at that point you can just build the manifold
oblique hollow
I mean it is symmetrical so thats something
oblique hollow
Manifolds for uneven numbers above 3 id say
wind spade
manifolds are for any numbers, because they are faster to build and easily expandable ๐
and usually take way less space
oblique hollow
I know
wind spade
also, they work really nice even if you e.g. underclock one or more buildings
oblique hollow
Buut when needing to equally balance, even numbers are easier with balancers
Well
wind spade
the point is that there's no need to equally balance ๐
oblique hollow
Not easier to build but.... Well, you get the idea
The max number of buildings i balance is 2, 3, 4 and 6, else i just manifold too
near hatch
but when its perfectly balanced its satisfying just as the game should be
wind spade
and then you want to upgrade the thing and you need to rebuild the whole balancer just because you're adding a few buildings
near hatch
i'm not adding buildings
oblique hollow
Building a manifold with multiple inputs works too
wind spade
well how are you handling upgrading your factory then @near hatch ?
near hatch
by building other compartments
wind spade
then based on your balance logic you need to balance inputs between compartments ๐ค
oblique hollow
Ah, the department factory
near hatch
well, its hard to explain but no
i just feed my compartment with what they need and just build what im supposed to build in the compartments
oblique hollow
... So Module-like then.
wind spade
you have miner mk1 and 4 smelters e.g.
now you upgrade to mk2, you need 8 smelters, how do you do it? build 4 more somewhere else?
wind spade
yeah, so balance the inputs for compartments
because then if you upgrade to mk3, you'll need to do it again
near hatch
where is the problem here
wind spade
with manifold, you don't have to ๐
near hatch
but i prefer to perfectly balance everything
wind spade
unnecessary, but ok
quick gorge
I always use the overflow methods..
No need to make a 1 to 5 splitter or whatever.. just have enough though put and they will al fill up if you didn't fuck the math up..
If you don't have enough to keep the overflow methods supplying all machines then you don't have enough to keep the 1 to 5 splitter method going at 100%. You just need more throughput regardless. Just the splitter has a larger footprint.
That's my 2 cents.
(Even though I don't use cents)
If it stops your OCD from wanting to rip a hole though your spine but sadly cannot because OCD isn't a human and in fact cannot do such things but the thought is there then so be it. Apeace the OCD demon. Otherwise if you can have a reasonable conversation with the demon and get it to understand then do that.. also you don't really have OCD if you can do that...
cunning vector
heyguys how can I split a 60 line into 5 parts?
just with basic splitters and stuff
barren lagoon
5 is hard easy
try google ๐ https://imgur.com/a/8YecreR
click the album to see why
fyi i didnt make it
hazy fossil
Is it possible to make nuclear fuel rods without any oil products?
quick gorge
That 1 to 5 splitter is... wrong...
brazen ocean
Hmm, I have two assemblers making a total of 10 stators/min, they're well fed always getting to 7/3 steel pipes before popping.
Down-stream from that I then have 1 assembler using 2.5/min of those for automated wiring, and then an underclocked assembler using 7.5/min for motors, however somehow it still seems like the motor assembler is very starved for stators. What could cause this?
glacial hemlock
yea, the input should have marked as 86.66%
brazen ocean
There's a good ~30 seconds of it being idle
glacial hemlock
duckle, use graphical to post question, else we can't imagine
quick gorge
I find it kinda funny after I explain why splitters like that are kinda pointless... someone asks how to make a splitter
glacial hemlock
but it may seems the automated wiring is still piling up its storage. once it is full, the motor assembler shld have no problem running
brazen ocean
It's full and backed up :/
glacial hemlock
then let it run for 1 hrs and check later. Else it might be something is going wrong. It might be splitters eating your items.
just make sure all upstream factories are running well.
brazen ocean
odd. the assemblers are at "2% effeciency" yet they never run out of 2x the itemes they need
glacial hemlock
make sure they have 3x of the items they need.
wind spade
@cunning vector just use manifolds ๐
glacial hemlock
1x is the minimum for the machines to run. Take note the input items are not consumed until the progress bar is filled up
brazen ocean
Right, that's why I mentioned it always got to >2x (7/3) before producing one item. Interestingly these are my only under-clocked machines. I'll try and fill up their buffers
glacial hemlock
although in exp version you can specify ppm instead of percentage, the game will still floor the percentage down to nearest %, so in some cases it will not run exactly as your specified ppm
brazen ocean
In this case I specified by %, as it fit accurately ๐
glacial hemlock
you should always ceil your % to match your desired parts per minute.
brazen ocean
(20 -> 15 items/m)
glacial hemlock
ok. then this is not the case.. hmmm
brazen ocean
Oh. (unrelated) You can insert items into the output of the mk2 miner ๐ฎ
@glacial hemlock Would you mind if I sent you a link to a little stream of me showing the issue?
glacial hemlock
a quick one, because I am going to sleep..
brazen ocean
well I found the issue ๐
glacial hemlock
oh, how?
pure forum
anyone able to give me a quick rundown on how to work out items per minute using trains?
wind spade
calculate how long does the train trip go
glacial hemlock
use your timer to time the round trip time of the train, then divide accordingly.
wind spade
and use this to determine how much you can put in
glacial hemlock
greeny has a detailed article about that
brazen ocean
Thanks for the look @glacial hemlock, I'll make me a patience factory and get myself some more of that, and wait for the production to catch up ๐
glacial hemlock
@brazen ocean as a rule of thumb, generally a manifold takes about 40 mins to be able to run fully 100% (jk)
brazen ocean
๐
glacial hemlock
once i setup a factory part, I just go and do something else. like hard drive hunting
glacial hemlock
yea, higher throughput factories usually are faster to start up. A 1ppm computer kickstart spaghetti factory, for example, can take hours to start.
the rate which logistics are backed up are item count / belt storage capacity
fallow lily
What are you doing that it would take that long?
pure forum
right so just to check, because im using 1xmk5 line and the stack size is 100 the train has to come at least every 4 minutes and 6 seconds. so if the time to get from A to B is under that i am essentially transporting 780 items per minute?
glacial hemlock
yes. Else, just add more wagons and make the train longer.
pure forum
got it, ty guys
glacial hemlock
From previous calculation, a long train is more efficient than 2 short trains.
hazy fossil
For my whole map maximum points possible experiment im thinking quartz will actually be the bottleneck, considering how silica and oscillators are used in a lot of crazy good alternate recipes
I guess i could use other alternates for hsc and circuit boards
patent bough
Is this including latest stats from current experimental map like any new/changed nodes?
Oh speaking of manifolds now that you can set pipe junctions on the ground it's a lot easier on ex to do pipes in manifold style
shy mason
i'm not too worried about having a lack of quartz, seeing how we can now pull silica from bauxite refinement, and can also use concrete as filler. And also that we can use water to further refine crystals/quarts ratio with that recipe. I think crude Oil is still the bottleneck on the entire map for late mega build game, especially with the 300 m3/minute of pipes now capping pure oil nodes worse than mk5 belts.
shrewd yacht
the 600 cap from the extractors might indicate better pipes later?
even though a fully OC extractor only can do 240 now...
the 300 cap on pipes will create an insane mess for bigger builds
shy mason
i can see a stronger pipe with steel pipes over just copper, they might roll that out steadily
oblique hollow
Next Pipe upgrade: Quantum Pipes
fallow lily
Donโt we still need higher tier belts for overclocked Mk 3 miners?
summer field
depends on the purity and which higher tier belts you're talking about
gilded trench
question, if i have 1 miner that is connected to 6 foundries, and theres no effi problems, if i oc it to 200% can i add 6 more foundries, so total 12 behind one??
summer field
Overclocking to 200% would make it run twice as fast, so yeah, that math would make sense.
gilded trench
aight, i just finished my first clean factory :D, tho i think i might have some kinda effi problem but im not sure
empty hemlock
aslong as you have the belts to handle that ore output
gilded trench
wind spade
btw you don't need to do the balancing thingy ๐
gilded trench
balance?
summer field
That's what a Sith would say.
wind spade
splitting to two and then splitting each branch to 3
you can do this instead
--S--S--S--S--S--S
| | | | | |
F F F F F F
S = splitter
F = foundry
also makes it super easy to expand
like in your current case, where you need to add 6 more smelters
gilded trench
wait, oc-ing miner doesnt increase smelter speed tho
or im being slow in the head and not understanding what you mean
dawn lark
@wind spade got the train timing for the liquid cars, assuming they stick with 500m3? How many would be needed to fill a pipe?
wind spade
pipes do 300/min
dawn lark
I dont even know what the liquid trains are like, do the have the same animation length? How big is their local storage?
wind spade
500m3 of liquid per train car
dawn lark
What about the station?
oblique hollow
also 500 (?)
dawn lark
Hmmm
nocturne flower
So I did some experimenting with the alt Heavy Turbo Fuel recipe and Heavy Oil Residue alt recipe. With 1 oil extractor overclocked to 300m3/min and 20 refineries, you can power 66.66 fuel generators, but I built 70 which were able to fill up assuming it doesn't go full load.
Gold Coast is a good place to set this up. Only issues I had/have is getting the materials to build it took a while and supplying it with Compacted Coal was sort of a bitch, but once it was all set up it's glorious and will run forever
nocturne flower
Once I expand my HMF production I'm gonna work on hooking the other 3 oil nodes up and bring it to 280 fuel generators
dawn lark
I plan on going out to 60 so that I know for sure they can all run
gilded trench
oh u mean instead of this?
--s--------s
| |
s s
f f f f f f
wind spade
yea
dawn lark
Yeah once every foundry is full the belts will only use what they need
gilded trench
ok cool, imma see what i can do there, thanks man
nocturne flower
Yeah @dawn lark , I'm sinking byproducts but eventually will setup residual plastic, rubber and fabric off it. So it's a really nice build with this update.
dawn lark
Mhm
I'm building mine to be expamdable by 20 fuel gens each time
Because 3 refineries each of heavy and 3 of turbo pretty much sustains them nicely
nocturne flower
Yup
limpid hamlet
What is the ratio with Fuel generators and Residual fuel
limpid hamlet
Nah the Residual fuel you get from heavy oil res
oblique hollow
if the icon doesnt change its probably the same item just a different name.
shy mason
the different name is referring to the specific recipe and input / by product ratios
wind spade
the different name is just recipe name ๐
same as e.g. Iron Wire
some recipes have the same name as items tho ๐
gilded trench
this looks way cleaner also thanks greeny
oblique hollow
oooh stacked splitters
shy mason
so how much steaming with water fed refineries are you fellas planning to use over manifold smelters for copper and iron?
gilded trench
but doing so, the last foundry is getting like 4 times less iron
quick gorge
I always use the overflow methods..
No need to make a 1 to 5 splitter or whatever.. just have enough though put and they will al fill up if you didn't fuck the math up..
If you don't have enough to keep the overflow methods supplying all machines then you don't have enough to keep the 1 to 5 splitter method going at 100%. You just need more throughput regardless. Just the splitter has a larger footprint.That's my 2 cents.
@quick gorge
gilded trench
ah yes, thought about that as u wrote that
quick gorge
You need to wait till the rest of them are full, if it still don't get any then you need more being pumped in ๐
gilded trench
i might be at slightly over 100% tho
cuz i used the calculator and it showd 50%, so im guessing there might be 0,something off
1 foundry consumes 45 ore per minute?
yeah no my math is way off, mine takes 270 ore per minute right now, but mine produces 240
hazy fossil
if anyone else would like to go into the maximum possible points per minute on the map i would love to
all ore would need to be processed through the alternate recipe with added water so making mega setups for those will be a nightmare
honest willow
can anyone confirm my math of supporting 157.5 Nuclear Power Plants off of one node of uranium mined at 600/m. I calculated following this path uranium -> uranium pellet -> alternate: infused uranium cell -> alternate: nuclear fuel unit
quick gorge
Can confirm, nightmare.
Nightmare for effort required, logistics and most importantly your CPU
hazy fossil
but that is why we do it
zealous jackal
seems deeply unnecessary which is why you should definitely do it
hazy fossil
we could probably figure out all the necessary math outside of the game
the most point rich object is the turbo motor
so we need to figure out how much of them could be produced per minute
then we move on to whatever the most valuable product is that we can make out of the resources we have left when we hit capacity on one
or use other alternate recipes
you'd probably have to use long belts and pipelines for transport since without signals we cant really make a complex enough train network to transport this many items
quick gorge
Just make tons of closed loops of trains... kinda shitty but yeah, that is better then belting everything to the, I assume middle of the map.
So step one being unlock all the alts then we can do math
wind spade
just make the products where nodes are
hazy fossil
i mean, we already have them in a big spreadsheet
if possible i would love for nuclear stuff to be made in seperate factories
the bottleneck resource for making the turbo motors is definetely either going to be either quartz or oil
im learning more towards quartz
since silica and oscillators are used in so many alt recipes that replace oil products
quick gorge
Also we need to take the maximum amount of ore we can take out of the world per minute, "estimate" how much power we need, then build reactors... you need to account for the resources to make fuel cells.
hazy fossil
not sure if we should account for being able to tap more than 300m3 from oil wells since we will likely get more powerful pipes in the near future
also all of the water we would need for all of the ore refining would be insane
quick gorge
Jesus Christ we would legit drain earth of all the water in matter of weeks
hazy fossil
what is the recipe for recycled plastic again? for some reason its not in this spreadsheet
i can post the link for it if u want
quick gorge
Well tbh I wouldn't begin to start this insane task UNTIL a 1.0 release.
When we have all the things we know we're going to get.
When maybe mk2 pipes
hazy fossil
for trains i guess we make one track for each train until we get rail signals
quick gorge
better trains and mk6 belts
hazy fossil
plus we'll probably get even crazier point rich products with the introduction of SAM ore
quick gorge
And most importantly a dedicated server would be 100% required because I'd think we'd have a ton of people working together for this
hazy fossil
definately
quick gorge
I'd say about 30 people max. I've read people on here getting past that already, not like it was stable but hey hoe
hazy fossil
i still hate how monorail trans clip through the tracks on rails splits
all of the math should be possible out of the game tho
quick gorge
Train overhaul is coming after dedicated servers so again, I'd wait for that before we start this
Yeah, make a huge master graph for this beast
hazy fossil
plus i beleive mk 2 smelters constructors etc are planned
quick gorge
eeyup
And if we're going to start when 1.0 drops then we have all the SAM stuff. A bunch of [REDACTED] stuff
hazy fossil
we'd probs need a dedicated discord server for the project
quick gorge
OH YES 100%
hazy fossil
i think ore refining should be done in facilities that pull all the ore from a certain area of the map and a ton of water from the area and have one large building for each type of ore being refined
ie one for iron copper and limestone
hazy fossil
idk
limestone is also necesary for making extra silicon
even if it takes a ton more power it should be worth it
since silica and oscilators are used in so many powerful alternates
quick gorge
SO much nuclear... dear god..
BUT again, we don't know if there isn't going to be any power gen after nuclear that uses SAM... ๐
This whole mega graph will be constantly changing until 1.0 so I don't see much point in doing it now when it's just going to be trashed and redone with each patch and rebalance
hazy fossil
yeh
once 1.0 drops we can make a dedicated discord server for the project
needs a good name tho
quick gorge
I'm shit with names
hazy fossil
i guess it could be called the truly perfect factory
quick gorge
...
hazy fossil
thing is it would probably require the void mod just to void nuclear waste
quick gorge
topkek
hazy fossil
i doubt a permanent solution to nuclear waste will ever be added to vanilla
quick gorge
you never know they might have waste reprocessing and all that shite
hazy fossil
extracting plutonium and automated breeder reactors
quick gorge
Sounds good to me ๐
hazy fossil
now just imagine doing this for the bobs angels adaptation mod
quick gorge
Nope.avi
So I like latin names because you know dead languages are fun.
For the name we could go for "opus ut creaturae"
Since automation doesn't really have a tranlation
And I will wrongly assume google is correct
hazy fossil
I guess well resume this conversation when 1.0 drops
quick gorge
haha, we could think up names in the mean time as 1.0 will... be a long time
hazy fossil
Im pretty sure the pure recipes are going to get nerfed, they are crazy powerful as of now
quick gorge
I think sulphuric acid will be replacing the water in those recipes
hazy fossil
I really hope they reduce the time it takes to research hard drives, rn it would take literal in game days to get al of the alt recipes
I mean days in game
quick gorge
"A liquid mostly used to extract elements from ore"
Sounds like a refining methord to me
hazy fossil
Watch them add an even more powerful pure recipe with sulfuric
quick gorge
I'd say take the pure we have now, and replace it with if not add the difference to the sulfuric recipe
wind spade
690 minutes for all hdds if you have frame perfect inputs and no delays, so more like 700-720 minutes, so around 12 hours of MAM research
hazy fossil
Idk if we should used enriched uranium fuel cells since we could instead use the sulfur to generate more points since radioactive items cant be put in the sink
quick gorge
Well if you research as you drive hunt...
wind spade
just store the waste ๐
hazy fossil
So using uranium efficiently might not matter
quick gorge
Fusion reactors maybe?
wind spade
@quick gorge yeah, you can now take the MAM with you and not waste time going back ๐
quick gorge
I've been doing that constantly since it became it's own thing.
Bring a mam with me, get drive, research, goto next drive
hazy fossil
Id just use the void so it can run literally forever
quick gorge
field reserach
wind spade
does it research even if the mam is deconstructed?
@hazy fossil there's no void ingame
honest willow
according to my math one uranium node can now support 157.5 nuclear power plants which is 393.75 GW of power. seems like they buffed it alot
wind spade
then it's a cheaty mod if it allows voiding of waste. The whole point of waste is to be stored, not voided ๐
quick gorge
Since you can't research more then one at a time it's map wide and thus you could have it researching without even having a MAM placed...
hazy fossil
Using which alts?
honest willow
157.5 Nuclear Power Plants off of one node of uranium mined at 600/m. I calculated following this path uranium -> uranium pellet -> alternate: infused uranium cell -> alternate: nuclear fuel unit
hazy fossil
As long as u have one mam placed at home base you can remove and replace it on the go
wind spade
also mods don't work on U3, so I'm not sure how you manage nuclear there ๐
other than storing waste
honest willow
you can drive it off a cliff
wind spade
it doesn't work
hazy fossil
We wont even attempt this till 1.0 drops
wind spade
it doesn't despawn, so the radiation stays there, also the vehicle in void eats your FPS
hazy fossil
Since everything keeps being changed and adjusted
wind spade
@hazy fossil that's just a case in U3, they said they don't want to do this big adjustments in the future
and 1.0 may be a few years, so that's a long time without nuclear power
quick gorge
.. :deepthink:
OAKY IDEA
we can do the drive hunts in waves
there's a wide range of drives we can get at each level
like 12 screws in the grass lands
We need to be insanely effective in this shit
honest willow
getting all drives + slugs takes like 2 days max. its not too hard
quick gorge
haha... can someone goto every single drop pod and pick up all the loot around it and then compile a list of things?
Okay maybe exclude the ones that are covered in gas to begin with...
hazy fossil
There are guides on the internet that show where all the pods are and the resources they need, if it is updated for 1.0 then it will be a breeze
lavish sapphire
Does anyone have a good ratio for coal burners/water extractor for a single pure coal node?
wind spade
3->8
quick gorge
Since all this plan is based around being the most meta gaming should we name this project meta madness?
honest willow
depends on your miner speed and belts
wind spade
3E -> 8G, 120 coal
lavish sapphire
Greeny, are you the brains behind the production calculator?
I think you are. If so, very nice work. Extremely useful!
wind spade
not sure if I have any brain cells left, but yeah, I made the tools
sand garnet
inb4 talking about satisfactory-calculator.com ๐
wind spade
my calculator is better
wind spade
considering I don't have map, then yea ๐
lavish sapphire
I did see the one Tom mentioned. I was definitely more comfortable with greeny's.
wind spade
not made by me. I just share Cornik's map
it's also on homepage, but nobody reads that
quick gorge
Who reads?
That isn't meta
wind spade
yeah exactly
still plinth
I just type numbers and your calculator builds my factory uhhhhh
wind spade
you'd be surprised how many people don't even know I have other tools apart from the production calculator ๐
even if it's in the top menu
still plinth
You have the consumption calculator
honest willow
i remember sharing my spreadsheets pre calculator days during the alpha
good times
wind spade
hehe, I made the tool pretty much instantly after release
tidal timber
you still need to make your tool so you can manually setup your stuff ๐
drag drop the components basically ๐
wind spade
https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/558721941410807812/558726051522412544 my first message in this channel, about 15 minutes after it got created xD
honest willow
i thought about making a calculator during the alpha but playing the game already took enough time away from school lol
quick gorge
I'm legit trying to make the most meta play I can think of
1a: Hunting slugs, drives and Artifacts(Mercer/Somersloops)
1b: Collects biomass, once coal, disband and moved
1c: Sets up an array of bio burners (32), bla bla bla I'm still typing this```i have to say, i like this approach better https://satisgraphtory.com but... he does not update that much, i like setting up my own designs, changing belt speed for each belt, setting miner for each miner etc
so right now i have no calculator i actually like ๐ฆ
quick gorge
F
wind spade
@tidal timber tbh I kinda wanted to do something like this
but with a bit different aproach
tidal timber
well if you do i will love you !
wind spade
instead of putting down each machine and mergers+splitters, you just put down "group" of machines, represented by one graph node
so you add one node, and set e.g. produce Iron Ingot, 5 machines
or 120 ipm instead of machine count
and you can then add something that processes product or creates the ingredients
tidal timber
well the problem i see there is if you have it fixed at finished setups, you take away the ability to change the setup
like what if you want to use miner mk1 in one production chain and mk2 in another
wind spade
then you add two nodes, one is miner mk1 and one is mk2
it's just early idea and nothing has been really coded for that, but I want to do that eventually
tidal timber
well im always happy to see new stuff and test it out, i for one love the node way, basically like ue4 nodes ๐ would be perfect for something like that
something like this
wind spade
I just feel like for any bigger calculations, putting down machine by machine and splitters+mergers is super tedious
and also I don't see any big advantage of displaying every machine separately
tidal timber
well everytime i wanna use your calculator, and maybe taht is just me.. but when i put in a production i get slapped with 100 machines all over the place
wind spade
instead of "5 smetlers"
tidal timber
its easier to start one by one if you are building from scratch
wind spade
have you tried the "visualize machine grouping" option in settings?
tidal timber
yeah it does not help much ๐
wind spade
I'd be happy to hear your opinion on what you actually need/want, so I can see if I'll be able to put something similar in the new tools ๐ but probably in DMs, if you want to talk about that
hazy fossil
What is the most space efficient design for a line of constructors assemblers and manufacturers
quick gorge
From what I can tell it's the support design that has been around
honest willow
manifold
sharp mountain
Can someone help me understand the point of compacted steel ingot recipe?
6 iron ore 3 compacted coal (3 sulfur 3 coal) for 37.5 per minute steel when the vanilla recipe gives you 45 steel for 3 iron and 3 coal?
The only positive I can see, is that you save power cause you make 10 instead of 3 but the overall output is lower?
warm flame
if i have 3x mk2 miners on 3 normal coal hotspots how many coal generators can i have at max?
storm ingot
Well, the enriched steel ingot has a higher output rate, but is more expensive. So the power savings can be pretty significant considering the level of steel you use.
plus you also get a bit more steel per minute for less iron.
upbeat tide
@warm flame any power shards involved?
warm flame
nope
upbeat tide
120 each right?
warm flame
yes
warm flame
wow i had no idea i could support than many lol
i was running 8 total lmao
thanks man
upbeat tide
Mk2 belts can do 8,
mk3 can do 18
Mk4 can do 32
Coal math is easy, total coal output/15 and compare that to how much your belt tech can handle
Water: 45m3 a min
And 1 full 300m3 water pipe per 6 coal gens
warm flame
awesome, thanks!
solid talon
so i just got fuel unlocked and i have 4 pure(i think) nodes of oil how many refineries can 1 node support?
not really seeing a lot of mathe recently for oil. seems to be all coal
solid talon
so with that math i could theoretically use 10 refineries to 1 oil node if i keep the flow constant
solid talon
curently thats all i have set up
devout leaf
ah
solid talon
and im trying to figure out wht to do with th by products lol
devout leaf
3 residual fuel refineries power 4 gens
or u can use it to make resin which can be used to make more plastic and rubber
but thats to much math for my tastes
solid talon
yeah im kinda overwhelmed with the new oil changes. i miss 4 refineries to like 50 fuel gens lol
devout leaf
tbh idk what through put is
upbeat tide
My oil setup
6 normal nodes, feeding 3 full oil pipes. 2 oil pumps per pipe. Normal can do 150m3 at 250% oc
10 refineries plastic
10 refineries rubber
05 refineries fuel
05 refineries residual fuel
05 refineries residual plastic
devout leaf
convert a residual fuel to plastic / rubber if you have load balanced your generators
how many generators?
upbeat tide
10 for now, out of quickwire so shopping trip to the mall
devout leaf
heh
upbeat tide
Think it can do 20 total
devout leaf
how many of your pumps are oc'd
upbeat tide
All of em
devout leaf
ic
upbeat tide
I wish resin could become fuel, so that entire segment is seperate
upbeat tide
Yea thats what it is right now, on residual plastic
Turning the heavy sludge into the residual fuel
300m3 sludge, nice even numbers
devout leaf
honestly what im gonna do is use it for the ticket printer
upbeat tide
Currently tossing V frames and A wiring into mine
devout leaf
same
upbeat tide
Until I can make the tier 4 elev item anyway efficiently
shy mason
i'm limited by circuit boards on my end, need to go to town on the pumps
upbeat tide
Yea but the southeast oil area doesnt have close sulfur
Working on belting it in tho but slow work
Nearest sulfur is a normal too if I remember right
devout leaf
yeah
upbeat tide
The 4 coal normals are nice though, right there
upbeat tide
I have 3 coal plants
And two steel facilities
30 coal gens
18 coal gens
32 coal gens
The 18 is compacted too atm, tbh thinking of just redirecting that to the oil field
faint compass
could someone please help me with the math on a bolted plate factory im making?
upbeat tide
bolted plate per minute needs
input:
80 iron plate
250 screw
output:
15 RIP
faint compass
im also using the casted screws recipe though
i have a miner on a normal iron node at 250%oc
feeding into 6 smelters
upbeat tide
two constructors doing casted screws will make 250 if at 250%
needs 62.5 iron ingots / min
faint compass
perfect what about dividing amongst the 6 smelters?
upbeat tide
and 120 for the plates
faint compass
i figured it'd be bad to throw them through a bunch of mergers
upbeat tide
overclowing is just fine, the machine at the end will take a bit to get up to speed though
wind spade
well underclocking and/or building more machines is more power efficient than overclocking
faint compass
yeah i was hoping to simplify but only overclocking miners
would i want to have each of the 6 smelters going into 2 constructors?
with 5 of the constructors makeing screws and the other 7 making plates?
upbeat tide
your gonna be 2.5 ingots / min short with 6 smelters sadly, just have them all merge into one line as long as your belt tech can handle 180+
if not, send four smelters to plates and two to screws
faint compass
gotcha okay i'll try that
upbeat tide
anyway if you dont have mk3 belts yet you will never have 100% efficiency
upbeat tide
mk1 can handle 60 a min
mk2 120
mk3 270
mk4 480
mk5...stupidity
faint compass
i have not been thinking of it like that dang
vital seal
anyone have an oil setup which mitigates backup scenarios?
i assume it uses a sync and is highly dependent on what materials are being consumed elsewhere in the factory
burned the excess off as fuel but as soon as i built more coal generators, fuel generator utilization plummeted and i lost rubber and plastic production
wind spade
have to different production lines, one for fuel, one for plastic+rubber
vital seal
so keep them separate so they back up independently?
vital seal
all have a bi-product so could just send the one bi product to the sync
cool, like that idea
wasteful but then guarantee you wont ever back up
wind spade
if that's fuel, you can package it and then sink it
storm ingot
One thing I heard, but haven't tested is apparently pipes fill/drain from bottom up
So if you need a "drain" of excess, one theory I haven't been able to test was using a vertical cross pipe.
vital seal
yea good idea, wish they had a splitter which prioritized one output and allowed over flow to go to the sync
figured you could build one in a convoluted way with mergers to say have 10% go to the sink normally but otherwise all the rest go to the sink if overflow occurs
storm ingot
So what happens is you put a splitter that is vertical, then if you have full usage on the lower pipe, the upper pipe will be empty unless it drains out, so you can use that vertical overflow to go to something to just concume it and make into tickets.
I haven't tested that. Only have read on what people have tested.
The test i read was somebody had a full pipe that split vertically into 2, and the bottom one stayed full while upper one drained out. Worth a test to prevent a midline backlog on dual production outputs.
vital seal
Plan for sending a minimal amount to the sink and then letting the overflow go 100% to the sink when there is a backup
wind spade
you can just add more splitters to have it send even less
or use the train technique to not send anything until it overflows
vital seal
train technique?
wind spade
vital seal
Ah this is cool, thx!
might stick with more splitter overflow because is simpler for now
storm ingot
I have considered a truck overflow before, wonder if that is the train one. I hate that you cannot have it go 100% to something til full
But that train one is what I do, with tractors, etc.
wind spade
definitely simpler, the train technique is really useful only later when you have stuff brought in by trains or a lot of power
storm ingot
It works with trucks too, but what all now has more than one simultaneous output?
Refinery does now, what else?
wind spade
only refinery
storm ingot
Then a pipe bubbler if that elevation one does work.
wind spade
trucks work too, advantage of trains is that they can carry multiple items without mixing them on a belt
storm ingot
.
OVER<--
MAIN<--|--<--SOURCE
Is what I was thinking. If the "main" goes to a storage or depot, then it should flow out of junction same way if flows in, then fill the upper pipe only when it is full? Want to test....
wind spade
uhh
storm ingot
wierd, must look different on mobile.
wind spade
that's compact mode
storm ingot
better?
storm ingot
if that does work, it is at least an easy one to do cause just can put it right at start of refinery output.
worn moat
does conveyor distance factor into a machine running at less than 100% even if the input math adds up to an expected 100% efficiency?
sharp crow
nope. the time it takes for a single item to move along the conveyor doesn't matter, because all the items on the conveyor move at once. so even if the conveyor is a billiom meters long, as soon as a new item enters at one end another item leaves at the other
it's just the throughput (speed) that matters, not the length
worn moat
odd
i have rotors automated at what should be 100%, but reads 94%
was 82%, but i replaced the rod conveyor with mk2 and it jumped to 94
sharp crow
yeah it takes a while for them to forget past i efficiencies
since they sample a large range of time to determine the efficiency
worn moat
ah
sharp crow
my 100% factory still reads in the high 90s from last time i had a power outage
saving and reloading might reset that tho idk
worn moat
that's probably why lol
went to dinner and left it on
power very much went out
upbeat tide
Is wet concrete worth the power requirements vs comproable constructors with standard?
glacial hemlock
Better if just try to maximize all limestone nodes first.
Conveyor belts are easy to go long distances. Pipes are not.
sharp crow
pipelines barely need any pumps to go long distances tho
as long as it's flat
and a rise of less than 20m only needs one pump
glacial hemlock
Horizontal pipelines go 300meters or so before needing a pump
sharp crow
to maintain headlift or flow rate?
glacial hemlock
Horizontal flow rate
Pumps actually don't provide flow rate, as it depends on the source.
sharp crow
pumps don't increase headlift or flow rate, but they do maintain the flow rate and maximum headlift
tight phoenix
@glacial hemlock perfectly horizontal pipelines don't need pumps, someone tested it
glacial hemlock
I see.
lofty swift
For the sake of it: Can you put a radio tower high enough to scan the entire map when it's at 100%?
glacial hemlock
Yes you can
quick gorge
Put in the middle of the map, (in the pink forest) and about as high as the space elevator, see how far that gets ya
sand garnet
Pretty sure you need at least 3 to scan the whole map
glacial hemlock
Somebody in the youtube had tried with 1 radar tower
sand garnet
successfully?
quick gorge
I never cared to do that :p
So I saw you can extract water from land in some areas of the swamp... I mean I want to so I could process the bax on site before loading onto train, I want a get what feels like a legit water extraction and not from land or the shallowish bog water.
fierce ruin
did someone already rebuild his nuclear power plant and production for it?
west cove
whats best setup atm for oil generators?
paper yacht
Ok really not trying to be confused even after a year so bear with me . The BOLD print often messes me up 40 Uranium Pellet is 20/m input. Are each made parts concidered 40 pieces but are 20 /m this does not seem right.
fallow lily
The per minute numbers are correct.
As you can see, the recipe takes 120 seconds to run, or two minutes.
sharp crow
it takes two minutes to craft, so the number of items per minute is half the number of items in the recipe
limpid jungle
it produces every 120secs
paper yacht
Its so odd pissed at myself looked at the 40 Bold number and built a manifold of 15 manu's with 600/m input
fallow lily
Then build 15 more.
paper yacht
So should be able to double the manifold then ahh ok thanks chaps not loosing my mind hehe
fallow lily
I need to fix a 15 reinforced iron plate/minute deficit in my crystal oscillator factory. So you're better off than I am at the moment.
sharp crow
how did that happen lol?
fallow lily
A division by 2 error.
sharp crow
oh that sucks
fallow lily
I've got enough crystals and cables. Just not enough reinforced iron plates.
Still, not going to be difficult to fix.
Just need to add another layer to my factory, add more production, and belt it down to the manufacturers.
shut rock
any one have a design to maximize steel beams and pipes production
paper yacht
Wonder if any gamer teachers use parts of this game to teach division ;) I would have loved a teacher like that.
@fallow lily the alt recipe math is making head hurt hehe
sharp crow
i mean
the level of math required for this game is
not actually very much, for most things
overclocking power consumption and radiation use exponential stuff, but everything else is just ratios and stuff
so even though it can get complicated, the concepts aren't very advanced
idk if this game would be a very good teacher
although i suppose you could use some of the more complicated recipes for word problems
hazy fossil
Trying to squeeze every last point per minute on the map is difficult
patent bough
so i noticed oil nodes don't mention their purity on inspection anymore but has anyone determined if they still have relative purities?
harsh fractal
Has anyone done the math on whether itโs more power efficient to have an extra building and under clock it vs over clock fewer buildings? Like if you need 1.5x the standard production of a thing
patent bough
i've only used one so far and it seems to have the same output it used to (previously i believe it was an impure node)
give or take....maybe less actually as it has 60/min base
wind spade
@harsh fractal build 2 and underclock both to 75%
harsh fractal
Thanks greeny
patent bough
i've solved rolling blackouts by mass underclocking
like "oh, i'm not using all of this supply? lemme underclock down to what i actually need.
of course if i were smart i'd precalculate all my power needs before building a thing
in early stages i do that. but once i get beyond a dozen machines i don't always check every single one.
storm ingot
Or subdivide your power supplies so each section has it's own power plant and grid. There is no disadvantage aside from space to doing it since fuel consumption is directly tied to power consumption due to each fuel providing a specific energy value as it is consumed regardless of power clocking.
I combine that with underclock balancing. Each individual product line having it's own power generators. Effectively, each tier of components is stand alone production line. Found it made balancing and maintaining power much easier because once something is going, it keeps going even if I grab a bunch of stuff.
gilded trench
if my mk2 200% oc miner pumps up 480 ore per minute, and i use mk3 belts, that transports 270 items per minute, im bottlenecking myself?
wind spade
well you're bottlenecking the belt, yeah
gilded trench
when do i get mk4 belts then?
wind spade
also matters if you have a use for that 480 ore
gilded trench
i could double my steel-production then
tulip bronze
Hmm, I never understood the upper input/output of industrial storage containers. They seem to input/output at a slower rate? How are they used?
wind spade
ISC has a weird priority thing going on. It's semi-random and changes randomly as well
you usually don't want to use their 2nd output
summer field
^
wind spade
unless you're sending out two full belts
gilded trench
why doesnt input change from oc-ing?
im tryna figure out how to maximize versatile framework production
or does it need to be operational to change numbers?
wind spade
it needs to be operational and the numbers change after a production cycle
also, don't oc, build more stuff ๐
gilded trench
Why have 3 stations if they all running at 75% if u can use two and even it out with oc
storm ingot
The only time one usually ever needs to overclock is if you need more output from an extractor and have the belt capacity to do so.
Even then. Overclocking is an evil and inhumane practice!
tulip bronze
@wind spade thanks for the info!
gilded trench
ehm excuse me, 2020, i can be evil if i want ._.
warm flame
how many refineries can 1 oil pump support?
unborn ermine
10ish depending on what you are making, like plastics and rubber. 300/30 = 10
quick gorge
So if you underclock 2 machines at 50% they take less power then 1 machine at 100%?
Meaning if you clock nuclear reactors at 1% you could run 100 reactors and how make how much power compared to 1 reactor at 100%
And also the waste, does that get reduced?
white fog
Hey, how much coal generator i can setup with 2 water extractor ?
quick gorge
(This is partly a joke)
Why do we not have it pinned? Or in FAQ?
I want to use the power of memes.
quick gorge
So if I clock 100 refiners at 1% to make up 1 refinery will that use like zero power?
I've never clocked stuff to 1% because that is stupid
wind spade
You don't gain nor lose anything by ocing gens. Just space and shards
Yeah, downclocking stuff usess way less power
quick gorge
Sooo I could make a factory that uses next to no power but will take up all the space in the universe...
Also my CPU would blow up by that's besides the point
wind spade
Yeah, downclocking stuff usess way less power
Uses like 0.063% of power, instead of 1%
storm ingot
Yeah, so it is a balance of the space for more generators vs the space for more manufacturers.
wind spade
So 100 machines at 1% oc use 6.3% of the power used by 1x100% machine
storm ingot
Also if you think you will not be able to meet the fuel means for all the manufacturing stuffs.
I do like it though for high tier products vs low tier because two manufacturers is not that much more space but they take lots of power. However low tier stuff is in such large numbers that it is considerably more space to do so there.
IE for computers for example. Manufacturer takes a reasonable level of power draw, but running four of em at 25% is quite the power savings.
quick gorge
Okay so 100 1% is 6.3% worse then 1 at 100%.. haha
storm ingot
Think you misunderstood. The factor of clock speed vs power consumption is not a direct relationship. So the power usage percentage increase is greater than the increase/decrease in production.
wind spade
@quick gorge no xD 100x1% only uses 6.3% of power used by 1x100%
quick gorge
Ohkay... so that's stupid.
But let's be honest.. anyone's computer will start to hurt before you see any benefit of doing that.
wind spade
For example smelter that uses 4MW at 100%, when you build 100 smelters at 1%, they will use 0.25 MW in total
storm ingot
Which is why the big stuff is where you see the savings. A manufacturer is 55mw. But if you used as exampled 4 at 25%? That is... less
so over a base, that is quite considerable but not in terms of base size or complexity, that much more.
Ditto for oil refineries, etc. That is where I like to use it. The high power usage buildings adds up very quick.
Refineries are pretty power intense and could definitely benefit as well from underclocking.
quick gorge
I've always challenged myself to make the whole base run at 100%
storm ingot
I like to do it just to reduce the resources going to power vs production on those ones. Else you can build two powerplants vs the four productioners.
shrewd yacht
to not gimp completely I do 50% on the 50MW machines and save around 33%
so manufacturers and refineries
drifting axle
shrewd yacht
and with the new alt recipes using refineries this will increase total power draw
serene yarrow
anyone have the oil sheet?
i dont get it... have 4 water stations supplying now 2 nuclear gens and still not enough water....each are doing 240m^3/ min and wont supply 100m
shrewd yacht
100m distance?
did you check elevation? long pipes will also need a pump eventually
vital seal
@drifting axle what program did you use to make your diagram?
wary imp
Hey! i'm looking for a flowchart editor, are u using one of them ?
drifting axle
@vital seal Inkscape
vital seal
ah cool, will give that a whirl again, tried that a long while back
i also used to use dia but not sure that's still around
latent blade
can someone tell me the Nuclear plant resource/min usage?
wind spade
1/ 5min
lofty swift
So, this new way of getting Alclad Aluminum Sheet confuses me.... Is the only way of crafting it via refineries now? With the aluminum solution and scrap?
quick gorge
Yes.. kinda simple when you compare it to Bob's mods
snow gazelle
Does anybody have a graph or a sheet on how they do there nuclear? im a little confused and have a headache
vague magnet
Anyone know a good site for factory planning ? With images ? I was trying to use one way back when, but I can't find it now.
wind spade
None of them is updated to U3 afaik
shy mason
think the only change done to nuclear is now having to refine uranium into pellets with sulfuric acid in the refineries.
if you're talking about nuclear power in general, yeah it's alot of work, would recomend a spot with limestone, water, suflur, and uranium to start off, and another spot with steel and caterium to make electromagnetic control rods and encassed industrial beams.
proven quarry
does anyone know of a site where i can put in my input and it tells me the highest output i can achieve
like a reverse calculator if you will
instead of: i want 500 copper wire a minute
you have: I have 2 120 copper ore a minute belts, what can i make out of that
mortal spindle
Lmao came here to ask for the best oil layout and see it posted right there lol
daring slate
Anyone got a neat ratio for aluminum production?
forest jewel
How does one split 1:25?
Basically. Got 1 Pure Oil, 200% due to mk4 belts.
Need to split it out to 25 fuel generators
tight lintel
is there an updated flowchart for update 3? seems like the ones pinned are for old stuff
fallow lily
Just manifold it.
daring slate
@tight lintel There isn't one yet afaik
prisma basalt
weird stuff
wind spade
@forest jewel use manifold ๐
forest jewel
Manifold, sorry?
shrewd yacht
pipe and plit it along to the generators
not quite there myself yet, but not sure a single 300m3 pipe can support 25 generators?
think I saw a video of 15m3 per at full load?
wind spade
@forest jewel manifold:
--S--S--S--S--S--S--S--S
| | | | | | | |
X X X X X X X X
S = splitter
X = machine or generator or whatever you want to use
if pipes, they work the same
forest jewel
Though last generator wont get fed properly though
wind spade
it will
first one will get full and more items will be sent futher
it cascades like this, as long as you have enough items, it will work 100%
and yeah, 300m3 of fuel won't feed 25 gens
shrewd yacht
generators never work 100% anyway as that would trip the fuse
wind spade
101% trips the fuse ๐
forest jewel
Pure node at 200% makes 480 crude oil, should be enough for 25 generators, no?
shrewd yacht
well good luck balancing the factory to never go over 100% capacity
wind spade
you need to process oil to fuel
@shrewd yacht if you connect 75 MW machines to 1 generator, then it runs at 100% easily
shrewd yacht
I'm sure someone is crazy enough to clock all machines so it runs at 90-100% of capacity
sand garnet
Greeny go to bed lol
forest jewel
480 crude is 300 fuel, generators is 12 fuel/min aka 25 gens ๐
wind spade
it's 15/min tho
dawn lark
Yee
forest jewel
Rly?
dawn lark
Yes
forest jewel
Is their wiki thingy out of date?
wind spade
well fuel gen is 150 MW and fuel is 600 MJ
dawn lark
A full pipe can support 20
wind spade
wiki is about EA branch, not experimental
dawn lark
:O
wind spade
well you'll need to rebuild everything for U3 anyway
forest jewel
Yeah, still working on my starter base
wind spade
but yeah, if you are on EA, then 300/min can provide enough fuel for 25 gens
forest jewel
Will redo whole base for U3
wind spade
and you can use the manifold setup to feed them
forest jewel
Roger, thx
shrewd yacht
to many bugs loading old save imo
plush jewel
I know this question has been thrown about a lot, but are busses actually a good way to organise a factory? My machines a cant keep up with demand? Is this bottlenecked by the belt sinzes?
fallow lily
Possibly.
And I don't care to use buses myself.
I prefer to build balanced, dedicated factories for the products I want.
plush jewel
How do you shift items between buildings?
fallow lily
Umm, belts?
plush jewel
So say you have iron going to a mini factory, then changed into iron products and shipped out? or really dedicated like iron to rods etd
fallow lily
Try dedicated to heavy modular frames or motors.
plush jewel
hmm, I guess I just can't get my head around how to organise everything, I think I rush into trying to make everything at once
@fallow lily So when you start out make these factories, do you already have in mind what the output value of the final product will be, Like I'm going to make a motor factory and I want to make 10/m
then build backwards?
fallow lily
I start from the convenient resources and work forward from there.
But once I start working on turbo motors that may change.
dim thicket
||I often build rows of manifolds. That way you can increase at any time||
Spoiler above for building efficiency. Don't click if learning the game
plush jewel
@dim thicket do you use overflow method then?
dim thicket
I don't recognize the name!
fallow lily
Another name for manifolds.
dim thicket
Oh yeah I do
plush jewel
Sorry if I just sound stupid, so you would take iron ingots say you have 120 on a line and make as many constructors as you need then just wait for it to fill up?
What happens if you are using more ingots in say the first few and the last ones are not getting the resource?
wind spade
You can build other stuff while it's filling
dim thicket
That's many people's worry. If more iron ingots are coming into the manifold than the constructors can work with, they'll all fill up and work at 100% efficiency
plush jewel
so you can only build manifolds up to belt speed is that correct
So I only have 120 atm so i should work around that?
dim thicket
If you supply less iron ingots than the manifold can make, then it will just make what you supply
wind spade
If you reach belt speed and want more, just build a second manifold
dim thicket
^^ Thus comes planning multiple manifolds
dim thicket
120 also won't be your max for long
plush jewel
I've just unlock steel so working towards mk3 I think I just tunneled vision playing this game and want everything in one buss line
I need to break out of it and make mutiple mini factories then
dim thicket
There's many ways to play, and happily there's no "one best way"
shrewd yacht
another thing is the alternate recipes changes things
so I tend to build a basic factory to unlock some things to upgrade to next tier and get items to survive and fight off mobs
then I go hard drive hunting
cedar mica
Is compacted coal equal on sulfur and coal, now?
upbeat tide
Yes its
25 coal
25 sulfer
Makes
25 compacted
cedar mica
That makes the math 22.5m fuel, 15 coal and 15 sulfur, for 18.75 turbo fuel
Now, how many fuel gens, does that cover?
upbeat tide
I know a gen takes 15
cedar mica
Turbo fuel supposently burn 2.2 times longer
cedar mica
Now the question is, is the alt for making turbo fuel from heavy oil residue better?
Same 60/m cruid oil is 80/m heavy oil residue, which is 63.9 turbo fuel.```Is that math right?
worn shuttle
How much Petro coke will 1 coal gen run on?
cedar mica
Think its 25/m for coke
worn shuttle
Thank you ๐
upbeat tide
Speaking of coke, is the coke to steel ingot recipe even useful?
The one that uses iron ingots is nuts tho and my current fav
cedar mica
Coke is useful for steel, but you also need it for Aluminum. Not to mention, you are using a lot of power to make it
worn shuttle
Setting up plastic and rubber on 6 oil nodes. coke the best byproduct? Will be making enough to feed 108 coal gens
upbeat tide
That one takes in 240 iron and coal ore and spits out 360 steel ingots
6 foundary setup
40 iron ingot
40 coal ore
60 steel
I was gonna use the compacted coal steel alt then saw it only does a pitiful 37.5 a min
worn moat
any calculators out for experimental yet?
worn moat
fair
i'll just hand it
plush pasture
worn moat
% based conveyor splitter when
upbeat tide
When mods update
fallow lily
Ask on the modding Discord.
grave jewel
Any other scientists/grad students in here, preferrably over 30?
upbeat tide
Networking and telecom, tech not science tho
fallow lily
@grave jewel Is this for a Satisfactory related question?
grave jewel
Depends, are you policing me
fallow lily
Just noting that #off-topic-general might be a better place for non-Satisfactory questions.
grave jewel
thought so. no
fallow lily
But what's the actual question?
grave jewel
Any other scientists/grad students in here, preferrably over 30?
faint compass
if i wanted to make a rotor factory using one pure iron node (overclocked x3) and the casted screws recipe how many constructors and assemblers would i need to meet the 300bars/min demand?
sand garnet
@grave jewelare you using this discord as a dating app then if that was the only question
@faint compass you could use the alt for rods
fallow lily
@faint compass Iron bars? 10 smelters.
sand garnet
Uaes steel and makes like 100
fallow lily
Or did you mean iron rods?
faint compass
yeah iron rods and casted screws
fallow lily
If you need 300 iron rods per minute, you need 20 constructors making rods.
faint compass
i dont think i need 300 rods per minute
im trying to make a rotor factory
which i believe costs 20 iron rods/min and 100 screws/min
sand garnet
Use alt rotor
faint compass
i dont have that either haha
fallow lily
Then where did you get the 300 number?
sand garnet
Go find hard drives
faint compass
a pure iron node with an mk1 miner maxed out on overclocking produces 300 ore/min
fallow lily
Ah, clarity.
faint compass
i'd prefer to try this with the regular recipe as im not there yet
fallow lily
Let's see...you can completely consume 270 iron ore/minute with a balanced factory by building 6 rotor assemblers, 15 screw constructors, 18 iron rod constructors, and 9 smelters.
fallow lily
You can partially feed a 7th with two more screw constructors and three more iron rod constructors.
But it won't run at full efficiency.
faint compass
i'd rather go for efficiency. trying to learn so this will help a lot thank you
fallow lily
Then use my first set of numbers.
As a bonus, you only need a Mk3 belt.
You do have Mk 3 belts, right?
faint compass
thats the one problem lol
fallow lily
XD
You can cut all the numbers by 1/3 and you'll be able to manage with 90 iron ore/minute.
That only needs a Mk 2 belt, and is still fully balanced.
faint compass
ah i see so the trick is to start the math with what the conveyers can handle then adjust the miner to that?
fallow lily
Well...sort of.
I started by making a spreadsheet.
Basically to figure out how much iron ore/minute each rotor assembler needed and worked from there.
faint compass
@fallow lily by cut the numbers by 1/3 did you mean use 1/3 of the value or -1/3 of the value (2/3rds)
fallow lily
Ah, the former.
faint compass
sweet i was hoping so haha
vital seal
just posted this design for my oil setup if anyone wanted to give some feedback. Thanks! https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/f8591q/an_oil_system_for_plasticrubberpackaged_fuel/
fading lily
I made a little python script that calculates my supply chain for me. What do you guys think?
timber iris
is it still possible to run say 16 Coal genies off of one Normal coal node?
glacial hemlock
@fading lily good! But without alternate recipe this look very inefficient
vital seal
@fading lily that's sweet, what graphing library you using? Also I assume you'll want some of those intermediate components for other higher tier items but that's more just adding to your diagram
@timber iris That depends, 16 coal genies need 240 coal per min when running fully so yea can do that on a normal node if you over clock / use > mk1 miner
fading lily
@glacial hemlock Thanks! Recipes are based on a json file I create so the only alt recipes on there are the ones i have unlocked.
@vital seal I use the graphviz library to generate dot files and then thats rendered in graphviz itself. The program works by typing what i want to make then the thoughtput and it generates a single graph. I didn't think of adding multiple end products. You've given me homework!
timber iris
@vital seal by "running fully" what do you mean?
vital seal
if the generators are running at 100% efficiency which means your right at your total power generation for your network
for example if you're only using 50% of your total power, then your coal generators will only consume half of their max amount of coal (15 * 50% => 7.5 coal per min)
timber iris
ah. on the EA-P2 I had a set up running 24 genis off a OCed MK1 normal node.. someone had mentioned they use more coal per/min the more power is actually drawn of a network capacity.. but I had yet to get to that point where this was vissable..
I had the 24 genis manafolded off a single buss, with 12 on each side. and pre-filled each one with a full stack of coal.
I'm just trying to get my head around a way to adapt that kind'a scaleablity to the new P3 system.. I know 5 water grabers will run two lines of 8 genies for 16 total.. and i have 4 nodes of normal Coal I was thinking of tapping just for a power hub. 16 genies per node.
elfin swan
Do you think its worth it to do load balancing on 64 smelters for iron ? Or should I just do a overflow method lol.
vital seal
i think the ratio is 3 water extractors to 8 generators with 120 coal going into them
timber iris
2.5 water extractors i was told.. thus why the 5 extractor set up works by sending half of the 3rd to both lines or something..
elfin swan
Yea its 3 water extractors to 8 generators.
vital seal
@elfin swan split the different and load balance 4 lines of 16 smelters which are overflowing?
regardless that's a lot of smelters ๐
elfin swan
Yea thats what I was thinking about Josona but idk XD And yea it will produce 1920 iron ingots per minute.
Its 4x 480 belts.
vital seal
with mark 1 fully overclocked you can get a max of 150 coal / min
need 120 for 8 generators
elfin swan
So with Mk3 miners is it 3x the amount or 4x the amount of resources ?
vital seal
i think it's 4x
timber iris
thanks for the input. ๐
elfin swan
Ok so on a pure its 480 so yea 4x
elfin swan
So Mk3 on 200% = 960 per min. Soooo I can do 3840 iron ingots per minute lol.
I was wondering with belts what is the fastest belt like items/min
devout leaf
780
im pretty sure rails are faster but either way you need multiple lines
devout leaf
i mean unless you load balance i think you can get a way with 3 lines
but thats with t5 belts
elfin swan
So 780 is max. ๐ฆ
So I can only make 3120 iron ingots per minute with the miners at 100% efficiency lol
devout leaf
"only"
elfin swan
Im currently working on unlocked Mk4 right now so I can make this iron 100% efficient lol.
And yea only!
devout leaf
do you have trains?
elfin swan
Imma need to tap more iron nodes XD
Also no not yet but this is all in my base right now.
Also trains would help me at all.
Cause I cant take the 960 out of the miner to begin with XD
If I had Mk3 on 200%
worn hound
Is there a way to have all of your resources go down one belt route until that route fills up, then go down another route without slowing down in the process? Belt travel latency is fine, but both outputs should be the same belt rate as the input.
My current idea is imperfect- Have a bunch of splitter/mergers to make going down one route less and less likely. You can scale the number of splitters to half the chances that the items will go down the backup route... For instance 1 splitter = 50% chance for main route, 50% chance for backup route. 2 splitters = 75% chance main, 25% chance backup. 3 splitters = 88% main/12% backup. Once the main fills up, the splitters act as a passthrough to the backup and don't slow the items down.
This idea is workable, but its large and not ideal because there will always be a little bit of uncontrollable loss.. Curious if there's other ideas out there to do this
Here's an example that divides by 3 instead of by 2. The main route (top mergers) takes 242/243 of the input items, but every 243rd item is lost out of the bottom route. Its exponential, so adding 2 more sets of splitters and you're at less than 1/1000 lost, but I'd still like a "perfect" solution if I could find one
rigid knoll
there might be something with programmable splitters? there isn't otherwise
worn hound
Haven't gotten that far, unfortunately :/ Just restarted with update 3
worn hound
Aw dang. Would be nice to have an "overflow router" or something like that :/
vital seal
yea, might have already seen this discussion
the vertical version is pretty cool too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0BV04P-xRE
worn hound
I haven't seen either of those, nope. First one is exactly what I made, second one looks nutty haha
vital seal
Alright just unlocked programmatic splitters and tested, no luck
top is programmatic splitter UI in update 3 (think it's the same as before). Just allows you to give more rules for each output, nothing about weights or priorities
maybe there is a feature request we can +1 somewhere
and the other ones referenced by it
wind spade
@worn hound yes there is - with trains
vital seal
@worn hound should have remembered @wind spade suggestion from yesterday, here is the link he sent me then https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/f75ao6/how_to_make_100_overflow_splitter_simple_method/
worn hound
ah yeah, that makes sense... but I kind of hate it lol. I'm not at trains yet, and tractors will for sure mess up enough to make that sketchy
iron notch
is there any planner updated with U3? thanks
opal timber
one refinery powers how many fuel generators? im guessing Gen uses 15 m3/Min so one refinery using 60 M3 oil/Min into 40 fuel/Min = 2.67 gens per refinery running at 100%?
viral fog
solid burrow
darn, is it me or is railway cheap these days?
glacial hemlock
If you only build 100m, it supposed to cost you only 9 item each
wind spade
btw, I've just run some numbers and contrary to popular belief, coal power was not buffed in U3
it's still the same as it was before
just a bit harder to set up
quick gorge
If anything it is nerfed.
You have to put water in it, water that could be going else where.
Also you have to power ti extractors and maybe pumps to get coal going in the first place sooo. Overall lowered
sand garnet
@wind spade what makes it the same? the power needed to use water?
fervent fossil
Iโm just doing the calculations!!!
A single extractor supplies 2.66 generators = 195mw produced. A single extractor uses 20MW for 120m3 water. Thatโs a power output of 175 on this system. Before you generated 130mw on 2.6 generators
With only coal
upbeat tide
Isnt coal gens a 50 MW base in update 2?
fervent fossil
Yes in update 2
upbeat tide
So yea its not a nerf. I imagint the extra 25 MW as room for the water extractor
glacial hemlock
Consider 86% efficiency for u3 and 95% efficiency for u2, it is still a 17.5MW net gain.
Oil generators, however is definitely nerfed due to higher consumption for proper proceecing
oblique hollow
well according to my calculations fuel generator setups are about 83,33% efficient, maybe more
upbeat tide
I think the thing with fuel gens is to make turbofuel more useful?
fallow lily
The thing with fuel generators isn't their efficiency, but the extra set up needed to handle byproducts.
glacial hemlock
Fuel is supposed to consume the byproduct, not producing it
fallow lily
If you're using fuel for the primary purpose of consuming byproduct, turning heavy oil residue into coke and sinking it is a more straightforward way of handling the matter.
grand thorn
I'm struggling to figure out an efficient design for a factory. Everything I see online is dedicated to making efficiency for X or Y advanced part, whereas I just want to get the most bang for my buck out of the first few parts (rods, screws, and maybe plates) so that the later parts aren't coming out at 1 part per minute
upbeat tide
Speaking of coke, whats the ratio to use it in coal gens?
grand thorn
I'd also rather not use an online calculator to just copy paste my factory
fallow lily
25 coke per minute per coal generator.
grand thorn
So right now I have 1 pure iron node, and one normal, both of which I want to dedicate to iron rods alone, and then use two nodes for plates
My tech isn't very advanced, I'm using mark 3 conveyors and mark 2 miners
fallow lily
The math for rods and screws is pretty simple.
grand thorn
Right but I'm wondering if I could be doing something better than doing a 3 way split from both miners, into smelters
upbeat tide
Do you have any alternates yet?
grand thorn
I've seen Kblitz do some crazy stuff
None, should I go out and try to get a bunch of those?
fallow lily
You consume 15 iron ore/minute for every iron rod constructor, and 10 iron ore/minute for every screw constructor.
Some are helpful, but they won't help with coming to grips with how to lay out factories.
But here's a starting point. Every smelter consumes 30 ore/minute.
So for every 30 ore/minute a miner puts out, you can support 1 smelter.
Every smelter can support two iron rod constructors.
grand thorn
I'm wondering if I'm losing out before that though
fallow lily
And every two iron rod constructors can support three screw constructors.
grand thorn
Since I'm getting 270 items per minute with m3 conveyors
Split 3 ways that's 90
I'm using m2 conveyors for the split since they handle 120 and that's already more
fallow lily
So far so good.
grand thorn
I'm wondering if there's a way to do a split & merge system where I'm using the belts more efficiently and the smelters more efficiently
fallow lily
Not really.
fallow lily
I never use buses, so I couldn't tell you.
grand thorn
Alright
fallow lily
I try to build my factories so each input belt is fully consumed by some segment of it.
upbeat tide
I use busses but its to move product from one manufacturing center to the next
For example I make iron products in one facility, rotors, mod frames, and RIP come out and get combined later into higher tier products such as motors, the various elevator parts, etc
Also I like to use the overflow method to do smelting. Instead of splitting off, I setup smelting in a long row. Enough smelters to consume the max amount of ore I can bring in.
I use a splitter before each smelter and copy that down the line. For me its cleaner and simpler to setup. The only con is that the final smelters in the line will not be at 100% until the first couple smelters have 100 ore in them.
Then, depending on what I am making, I branch off enough smelter output for the desired item
wind spade
@quick gorge @sand garnet @fervent fossil @upbeat tide @glacial hemlock re: coal power
Change for U3: Coal's energy value changed from 270 MJ to 300 MJ, so coal on it's own got slightly buffed.
Now, you need water. 1 coal burns for 4 seconds, to burn 1 coal, you need 3m3 of water. Water extractor produces 2 water/s, meaning it needs to run 1.5 secs to produce water needed to produce enough water for 1 coal. With it's power consumption of 20 MW, that's 30 MJ of energy needed to produce enough water, which is exactly how much extra energy you have per coal.
So you still get the same amount of energy per coal, just it's now a bit harder to set up (but that is a one-time payment, so not relevant here).
sand garnet
thanks for the clarification
opaque socket
i already posted it on #old-questions-and-help but i've been told i would have more answers/discussions here so i repost it here:
hey guys i've tested multiple ways of playing this game through automation, and i still don't know, so i wonder, what for you is the best between those ways of thinking, the easier, faster way to play:
-Reuse the products of your previous factories as inputs for your new ones (and so, upgrading your old factories so it can keep up with the amount of resources all your other factories need)
-Building your factories so it produces the right amount you need to store it for personal uses and then for each new factories you rebuild the previous products in it
-A mix between the 2 and if so, how do you manage things ?
quick gorge
Maths is fun :)
orchid panther
hey Greeny the new tools page going to have a production calculator too?
wind spade
@opaque socket there's no right or wrong, there's no best or worst, but if you want opinionated best setup, then I'll give you mine:
How do I build factories:
- I first decide what I want to build next. Example: I need reinforced iron plates.
- I decide how much reinforced plates I need, e.g. 20/min.
- I calculate the production chain
- I find how much that chain needs raw ores and find a nice place on the map, where it has these quantities of ores (or more). I build a dedicated factory for 20/min refinorced iron plates there, minding it may be expanded later
- I transfer those reinforced iron plates to storage, either by belts if it's close, or often by train.
Repeat this for any new product. If I already have an existing factory for that product, I either expand that factory if it sill has enough raw materials around it to support it or build a new one somewhere else.
@orchid panther I'm working on it, it's pretty hard and I've hit so many obsatcles on the way because of the byproducts and everything, that I can't give you any estimate right now
orchid panther
yeah no rush i totally understand was just curious
opaque socket
@wind spade thx for the answer, we played exactly like this last playthrough with a friend, but ended up making plans for hours and hours, and producing way to much products (not more of a problem now that we have resource sink) ^^ that's why i was thinking how could i play like this (cause i like it, it makes complex factories) without doing to much
wind spade
plans were pretty fast if I used some of the online tools for them. I usually just went for smallest number of products, usually what 1 or 2 machines produce, unless I knew I'll need that product for long term and in large quantities (i.e. materials for belts, concrete, materials for often used buildings and infrastructure, ...)
glacial tide
so i saw 100% coal gene is 3 Water - 8 Gene with 2 pipes. Does that mean i can do 1 Water Overclocked(150) to 4 Gene aswell?
opaque socket
yes i think we'll use more online tools for plans right now, yours are pretty nice, and i was wondering too, for end game products, do you guys overclock every first products buildings at 250% kind of, or do you use it only if you need to expand the factory later ?
and last question, do exp branch is kinda safe now to start a new playthrough, or is it better to way for the EA release ?
strange hawk
@wind spade any eta on calculator update for U3?
wind spade
look 7 messages above^^
wind spade
@opaque socket I don't overclock at all (except for miners if I need more raw materials and there's no nearby node), because overclocked buildings eat way more power. It's just more power efficient to build more buildings.
strange hawk
Ye only overclock miners, I always overclock all my miners instead of using another deposit next to it
wind spade
I first use the nearby deposit, but otherwise the same
I mean yeah, I have tons of shards, but why waste power when I don't need to
strange hawk
Idk why but I always think I will once run out of deposits even though will never happen but ye
wind spade
if you run out of deposits, you can always just oc both miners, split one miner into the existing two lanes and use the second as extra resources
unborn ermine
Just for giggles I did the math, if you overclocked all nodes to 2.5x you will have 270 shards left for other things. (excluding doggos and slug respawns)
wind spade
slugs don't respawn
storm ingot
They can if they error.
wind spade
I think that's just caused by the update
storm ingot
But is a moot point because overclocking is a badโข๏ธ thing.
wind spade
badTM
vague herald
its only bad if it's on anything else but resource extraction
glacial hemlock
Power slug is only renewable if you farm lizard doggos
storm ingot
No, cause you gotta live the sluglife! Only heartless fixit dogs process the beautiful slugs.
quick gorge
So I need to redo my plastic/rubber and fuel setup because all my geo gens are supporting my temp base but the issue with that being I have no plastic or rubber... so rip. Now I have recycled rubber and plastic.
You could have fuel to... well fuel a feedback loop of infinite recycling between rubber and plastic.
So focus fuel and only fuel could we have a closed loop of recycling to gain more then doing it normally.
Bonus being you can hook it directly to power fuel, the overflow of fuel going towards the recycling system.
This is just a theory
A stupid theory
(This does not take into account turbo fuel)
wind spade
this exact theory was suggested in another discord and I'm pretty confident it's worse than making the rubber/plastic from oil directly, though I haven't done the math yet (but I kinda want to do it now)
wind spade
basically I'm trying to do this:
You want a setup that converts oil to rubber OR plastic. You have 3 options:
- direct = convert oil to desired product (and deal with byproducts)
- recycle = convert oil to the other product, then recycle it to the desired product (without byproducts)
- loop = convert all oil to fuel and use that to feed a loop of recycling refineries and take out the product (without byproducts)
I want to compare all 3 setups and see how good/bad they are in comparsion to each other
snow folio
anyone got the maths for a 100% efficient turbofuel power plant?
quick gorge
Are you actively doing this right now?
wind spade
I have an empty open excel sheet ๐
but I've done a lot of research about the recipes before, so yeah, kinda want to do it now
quick gorge
Well I was going to do it in game because a excel is a written theory written out in detail.