the space elevator parts provide quite a bit
#math-and-meta
reef pond
🤔 i dont think this is gonna work
untold crown
pipe mk2 
barren elm
Actually surprised that there isn't higher tier pipes
wind spade
they needed to save something for update 4
hazy pond
Any body found a good source of info on pipe and fluid mechanics yet? Like a video or something. I'm curious about splitting and merging and capacities and all that jazz
formal loom
The system is being reworked, so I suspect that any good sources are waiting for things to be finalized.
earnest orchid
we all want the numbers, just waiting for any final fixes and such before we know all
hazy pond
I gotcha. I messed with them long enough to get coal power running and that's it.
twin parrot
Anyone know the use/minute for fuel/turbofuel in fuel gens?
untold crown
molten fjord
pipes are freaking weird. I have 2 pumps, 240m3/m. 5 coal power @ 45x5 225m3/m. yet i'm not getting enough water through the pipe, even after spamming like 8 pipeline pumps at the source
cedar mica
Could use some bigger numbers, on that schematic
twin parrot
@untold crown Thank you very much
cedar mica
@molten fjord Each inline pump adds 20m of pressure, uphill. You need to spam them at a distance a part
molten fjord
oof
I was reading earlier on here that people figure distance wasn't a factor, just height?
cedar mica
If you dont want to do math, use the stackable pipeline support. Each of them is 2m tall, so snake your way up, using them as guide line
molten fjord
Oh, interesting
cedar mica
So 10 of those, is max height between pumps
barren elm
It's better to take your coal to water than take your water to coal, saves you all this hassle with pumps
molten fjord
seems that way yeah
fallow lily
Plus you have all that space to work with.
cedar mica
Depends on how you want to build
barren elm
Sensibly
molten fjord
Oh god i'm dumb
I didn't realize the pipeline pumps were directional.. i have them going backwards
wicked oasis
Ruh-roh.
reef pond
Also the tees are like dumb splitters/mergers combined... So if you only input on one side of the pipe...
glacial hemlock
@molten fjord is your coal gens are almost the same elevation as the water body?
molten fjord
A bit bellow
But I fixed it. I had my pipeline pumps facing the wrong direction >.>
glacial hemlock
I see. Glad to see problems solved 😄
lusty magnet
Ameribro here, how does cubic meters convert to liters for water supply?
barren elm
Just ignore the units entirely
Water extractor pumps 120, pipes hold 300, coal gens use 45
It's fundamentally similar to how belts work
lusty magnet
ah, right, ok, yeah 1000 liters is 1 cubic meter, so 120k liters is 120 cubic meters, ez
dang, that kinda throws off my ratio plans for the coal gens though
glacial hemlock
Update 4: adding ventilation ducts..
barren elm
Current best ratio (imo) is 2 slightly underclocked water extractors per 5 coal gens
glacial hemlock
3:8 ratio doesn't work?
barren elm
This means that a 250% overclocked coal mine will always supply a multiple of 5 (f.ex. mk2 on an impure node = 150 coal per sec = supports 10 coal gens)
To get 3:8 you need 2 pipe networks, same number of pipe networks as 2x 2:5 builds
glacial hemlock
I see. 2:5 works better with OCed miners
barren elm
If there's verticality involved, and you're using pumps, I could see a 3:6 per pipe build being worth it
With the 3 extractors underclocked of course
But yeah, 2:5 works nicely with 250% overclocked miners
glacial hemlock
In power efficiency standpoint, using low ground water for power production should be avoided, i am thinking to use water from bamboo forest and route them all the way down to grass field with multi storey generators
The other way is sprial train vs water pump, not sure which one is more effective
barren elm
Just build in the sea and be done with it
Even if it's just for power production
There's plenty of coal nodes right beside the sea
In the dunes there's 3 coal nodes in the northeast that are right on the cliff edge of a huge river
With 2 pure nodes not far away
Where the northern forest meets the desert, there's 4 normal coal nodes right beside the river, with a pure node up a cliff
It's been a long time since I started in the grassy plains but I'm sure someone has figured out a good coal/water site there too
lusty magnet
are there higher capacity pipes down the tech tree? or is 300m3 it?
did coal to miner ratios change at all with the update?
I seem to remember 240/m out from miners covering 20 coal gens before the update?
bold flint
one coal generator at 100% uses 15 coal/min
old sequoia
I wish they stated that on the interface, like it states the water consumption
formal loom
It does.
bold flint
it does?
formal loom
I haven't got one right in front of me, but I am sure it says 1 coal every 4 seconds.
You have to have the coal in it for it to tell you how long the coal will last.
Condensed coal will last 8.4 seconds.
bold flint
i found it
old sequoia
It has a clock icon below the input display that just says 4 seconds. The math isn't that bad, but when it explicitly says how much water is used per minute the contrast is stark
formal loom
I dont' know if the water consumption is ... fluid.. .like it is for coal.
bold flint
brave notch
Quick Question
Water Extractors:
Pipes have a throughput of 300m^3/min
Extractors have an extraction rate of 600m^3/min
This means Water Extractors - after their initial filling of the pipes - shouldn't consume more than 50% their listed (max) power rate, yes?
If so, what is that rate?
how many MW?
old sequoia
Water extractors have an extraction rate of 120, though you can overclock it to increase that output
I'm uncertain of the affect that backed up pipes have on extractor power usage
cosmic hearth
I'm thinking that overclocking water extractors might be a priority simply to make more efficient use of surface area in zones with shallow/cluttered/small areas of deep water
brave notch
In some areas yes
But you'd have a much larger power draw.
This is correct, right?
cosmic hearth
yeah, though if you have the space to do three per pipe then you might as well arrange two lines in clusters of 5
This arrangement gets you two lines of 300 kL
brave notch
Only problem with that is that Pipes are not bi-directional
Wait nvm the splitter
duh.
So that, plus 180 Coal/min would power 2 Modules.
800 MW
cosmic hearth
yeah, and if you put them all in a row and insert the second pipe between plants 6 and 7 you can do 13 since there's a bit of pressure leftover after #6
wait, no, you need to put it in between 7 and 8
cosmic hearth
So, I'm not crazy, the engineer, she's like 3m tall, right?
brave notch
There we are.
cosmic hearth
Hmm, you'r right. I think maybe the foundations just feel shorter until you shove the camera right up against them as a trick of perspective
like how if you make your house in a video game, with real dimensions, it feels claustrophobic
wind spade
@brave notch I'd use manifold for easy expansion
Also power calculation is incorrect, if you underclock a pump to 50%, it doesn't use 50% of power
swift panther
Greeny you got all the new stuff on your calculator yet?
wind spade
I got the data, but the tool will take some time
swift panther
That’s what I figured. They keepin ya busy lol
wind spade
They introduced a few changes that break current tools
swift panther
Ahh that sucks
timber iris
hope it isn't causing too much of a headake on your end Greeny. take yer time. 💜
wind spade
Like multiple outputs per recipe
Well yesterday I did 36ish ours of programming straight, so I'd say it's fun xD
cosmic hearth
I bet the oil/heavy oil product circle is !fun! for tool building
swift panther
You sure are devoted lol. You does not sound like fun at all haha
That does not*
I’ll probably wait till the updates out of experimental to start playing again. Is it best to start a new save or keep the progress and just wipe the stuff you have?
wind spade
well that depends. I'd say they changed the game a lot, so reinventing things with the progression they intended may be fun and also due to most of the recipes changed, you'll most likely need to rebuild your base anyway
swift panther
Yeah but lot faster not having to take all the baby steps to unlock everything again
swift panther
Right
wind spade
but yeah, some people argue that they don't want to do all the tech, HDDs and slugs again, so they continue their old save
I don't think it's that bad, especially since you can start now from T1
all the intro stuff is the same (T0 + hub building)
swift panther
I screwed up my hdds anyway so I’ll probably just start a new one. Just want this update to be good n stable first
supple bloom
Quick question: I know that the ratio of water extractors to pumps is 3:8. How many pipes would I need to use?
earnest orchid
I think the math for the extractors needs reworking out, watching a yter atm he has one extractor and 1 buffer on 9 generators and its running all without emptying any of them
either that, or the numbers on the extractors is wrong
cause in theory you can run 6 genes to one extractor at 45cm3 a minute?
45cm3 and max flow is 300m3? or am i missing something?
2.6 generators sounds too low
wind spade
water extractor does 120m3/min
earnest orchid
then im not sure how he was running 9 genes off 1 extractor and 1 buffer?
fervent fossil
all the intro stuff is the same (T0 + hub building)
@wind spade The hub 0 has changed, there is a tier 6 now and the requirements for the hub upgrades have lowered across them all
wind spade
@earnest orchid probably not using even remotely that much power?
earnest orchid
he is consuming half the power and expanding, but even then that should only be 5
fervent fossil
I think the math for the extractors needs reworking out, watching a yter atm he has one extractor and 1 buffer on 9 generators and its running all without emptying any of them
@earnest orchid iA maxed pipe of 300m3/min will run 6.6 coal generators at 💯% but you can run more if you are running them at 💯!!
earnest orchid
i think the numbers on the extractors is wrong, or im missing something
fervent fossil
The water input for the generators is 45per min
wind spade
@fervent fossil but water extractor won't output 300m3/min afaik
earnest orchid
yeah, you math based on that makes sense, but I might need to play with the pipes more see what max flow actually is compared to the numbers we are getting from the extractor
fervent fossil
Combining or over locking will reach capacity of 300
An extractor at 250% will pump out 300
earnest orchid
Supposedly 300, but i wonder how accurate that is
fervent fossil
But that will just use up way too much power
It’s not as black and white as belts, that’s what makes it a lot more challenging
It will@prob pump out 300 but you would prob need a reserve tank to make sure pump at 300 is consistent, but I’m not sure it would keep it at 300 if you were needing to pull the max amount at the same time
cedar basin
CAn someone make a "reverse" prod planner?
ikd sth like "select nodes, select miner, selet item and overclocking"
and then you get the items/s which depends on the miners instead of the final assember/etc running at x %#
wind spade
I already have that
it's called consumption tool
though it's only for U2 for now
as all of the other tools 😦
fervent fossil
That’s the fun of updates, esp big ones like this, throws off all the tools everyone was so used to using!!!
wind spade
"fun"
fervent fossil
Lol, you do stellar work!! I imagine is a lot of fun for you when an update drops. People expect you to have the tools running the next day!!!
wind spade
again, "fun" 😄
swift panther
He’s gonna get done with it then they’ll announce update 4 lol
earnest orchid
i think the buffer increases the max output of the extractor, just chucking a quick test together
cedar basin
thats the misery of making tools that run after a big software
tame ocean
@earnest orchid sorry, jumpiong in half way through a conversation here. Are you talking about water consumption not matching up on the coal gens?
earnest orchid
i think it does, the buffer once full allows the empty machines to be filled at a faster rate, however i dont know if that could be sustained over time
fervent fossil
I think buffers allow a back up water when the system is not under stress and then refills when the system returns to normal
earnest orchid
so if you could maintain a few buffers with less extractors in theory you would need less of them to maintain the line?
fervent fossil
Yes, in theory
tame ocean
that sounds like a decent idea 😛
earnest orchid
cause the pipes can output at 300m3 same with the buffers, the only limiting factor is the extractors
cause at 100% the buffer is filling at 300ishm3
fervent fossil
I have never seen a power system at 💯% consistently due to the fluctuation in power consumption. So technically as long as the power consumption is not greater than the supply over an extended period of time, you could run 6.6 generators on less extractors
earnest orchid
ill flush and check again
fervent fossil
But you cannot exceed the max generators on a water line. The limiting factor is the pipes
cedar basin
greeny, will you integrate fluid production chains into the item lines?
earnest orchid
ill do another drain and check the extractor 1 sec
fervent fossil
I think he has to work on getting everything else working first!!!!
cedar basin
idk what hes up to
earnest orchid
the extractor is only showing 110m3, but the buffer shows 300m3 fill rate
and the buffer is only connected to the extractor
extractor is empty btw
wind spade
currently working on an item browser
cedar basin
?
wind spade
due to the fact that I first need to see if I extracted all the data correctly
and it's also the easiest thing to make to have at least something
zinc delta
Looking to do a single belt setup with smart splitters that can be large scale wondering if anyone has done a write up on that with the new recipes
wind spade
because calculator itself would be super hard to do
so at least I'll have some update for you guys
@zinc delta don't. Just don't
sullen pecan
What are you looking at @earnest orchid the flow rate on the extractor?
earnest orchid
the flow rate on both extractor and buffer, and the buffer is showing 300m3 but the extractor is showing 110m3
cedar basin
NEVER mix belts in factory games.
sullen pecan
keen garnet
zinc delta
Or at the least a good start would be which of the new recipes I’d most efficient? @wind spade
Is*
wind spade
don't mix resources on a belt. Never ever mix resources 😄
earnest orchid
unless going into a sink for coupons
zinc delta
Let’s stray away from that concept, focus on efficiency lol
wind spade
new alts are mostly alternatives, meaning they change resources rather than being straight up better
though I haven't done any in-depth maths on that yet
earnest orchid
i seriously think the numbers on the extractor are off and can full more genes at 100% then we current calculate
zinc delta
Now that I have a vanilla sink. And I have a understanding on the smart splitters if then process I just want to play with it. And scale it largely. And okay I’ll have to keep plugging at my spreadsheet lol
sullen pecan
I don't think they are
zinc delta
Ty @wind spade
earnest orchid
well if the buffer is filling from an empty extractor at 300m3, but the supposed output from the extractor is 110m3 to the buffer, then something doesnt add up
its just what I am seeing from my testing
hollow tulip
Any documentation on pipes anywhere, even if custom written? Twould be greatly appreciated
earnest orchid
thats what we are talking about, i am working out numbers, based on the mathc we know is the 2.6 generators per extractor
hollow tulip
Gotchu 👌 If you guys need a compiler to put it all down lmk, I'll type it out nice and neatly
earnest orchid
i will have a basic guide up tomorrow in setups, numbers to be added later
hollow tulip
Word. Thanks!
sullen pecan
Well the industrial buffer, when I set my output of my extractor to non overclocked is showing the same, let me swap it out for a small one
earnest orchid
im using the small one
sullen pecan
Fill rate avg is 120/m when the extractor is 120/m
earnest orchid
strange really strange, im getting different numbers to you
sullen pecan
avg of 120/m on small buffer, it shows 300/m for a little bit if the pipes are backed up but then it slows down
earnest orchid
i got a ss hold up, then i will rebuild the buffer and see if its holding numbers
sullen pecan
Hmm although I dunno why it is showing a drain rate, its not hooked up to anything else
It went to zero as the tank filled up
earnest orchid
After rebuild
same numbers twice
unless its a bug
its goes like that all the way to nearly the top then drops right off
sullen pecan
Is your extractor on a higher level?
earnest orchid
is hould drop of after a partial fill
same level as buffer
i wonder if that effects flow rates, having the buffer lower or same height
sullen pecan
Well I dunno, I cant replicate the buffer filling at a higher rate than what the extractor is displaying. I don't know if i have any good locations to test verticality from extractors
earnest orchid
cause if thats the case and we can minimize extractors to genes, then we wouldnt need to overclock and saves power waste on water extraction too
fervent fossil
Or underclock extractors
earnest orchid
true
so maybe the extractor numbers are correct, but having the buffer at differect heights helps flow down the line
about to test the height theory
fervent fossil
I have heard that a buffer must be at the same height or higher to the input on the generator
earnest orchid
yep height effects flow, now i get 140ishm3 now at a height and pump
so level or down gives best results from extractors
so with the 300m3 with buffer on line means we can connect 6.3 generators with 0 over clock
fervent fossil
Level or below extractors??
earnest orchid
yes not above, the flow drops dramatically effecting possible generator power
sullen pecan
So build a pump in that case, its a flow problem not an output problem at that point.
fervent fossil
So level or below extractors gives better flow into buffer. If above flow drops off. And prob the same with level or above inputs to genes gives better flow out of a buffer
earnest orchid
basically, means a tiered generator setup to get the best flow
regal mantle
So, is there any consensus yet on what alternate recipes should be priorised in u3 differently than in u2?
fervent fossil
The best possible arrays are going to be from lakes high up in the map, allowed buffers to be below extractors and genes below buffers
earnest orchid
so bascially 1 extractor 1 buffer 6 generators with extra headroom means you would never need to worry about flow
@regal mantle not sure yet
fervent fossil
None yet @regal mantle the alt-recipes are no longer better in all aspects, they are a trade off now, if you want to use less items you use more power etc etc
That will need a long term test to verify
@earnest orchid
@regal mantle or have a more complicated setup!!
tame ocean
@earnest orchid When taking fluid up, did you try multiple pumps on a line? I went up maybe 20/30 meters and just kept adding pumps till the flowrate was back to maximum. (took 3 pumps)
earnest orchid
this is more play testing theories
tulip bronze
I'm on experimental, trying to figure out how to put my fuel production back on track. What do you think is the best way to go at it?At first. Like.. that one recipe which produces fuel and resin? So, crude oil -> fuel/resin -> plastics. Or, is it better to produce plastic from crude oil, and convert the heavy oil residue into fuel? Also, I haven't got around producing computers yet so, the plastic would accumulate.. how should I get rid of it till I need it? So the process can keep running.
sullen pecan
Throw the plastic into an awesome sink or whatever
wind spade
you can convert all the byproducts to fuel
sullen pecan
if you are just trying to make fuel, the fuel/resin one works I think, but I dont know how to process the resin
sullen pecan
That resin might just go into one of those ticket machines unprocessed though, I don't have on me to try.
Oh wait duh, there we go
Resin and water makes plastic, which you could just toss in the ticket machine. I kept skimming over that recipe in the refinery because it didn't have resin picture haha, so I missed it.
tulip bronze
Great! Time to lay down some plumbing then. Thanks.
wind spade
oh sorry, I meant all the liquid byproducts
gloomy jacinth
Stupid question but when I got 3 smart splitters splitting in a row. so 1/3 1/3 1/3 and one is the exit to the sink that means 1/3³ is lost correct?
oblique hollow
Depens if all outputs are used
gloomy jacinth
yes they are all used
oblique hollow
If its smart splitters then actually nothing should be lost if its one type of item
Like if they all keep forwarding coal
wind spade
why smart splitters if you could use just regular ones?
gloomy jacinth
I am looking for a way to combat overflow in my main storage hub
oblique hollow
A sink
gloomy jacinth
10 lines coming in with 42 different items on them needing to be split into 42 different storages. Problem I got right now is as soon as 1 storage is full 1/10 of the line completely stops moving
oblique hollow
Thats the main problem with smart splits. You gotta direct overflow into a sink or actually process it
In your case programmable splitters might be better but i doubt that you have access to them right now
wind spade
@gloomy jacinth you are dealing with the issue at wrong end. You should not mix belts in the first place, then you wouldn't have this issue
gloomy jacinth
I cant have 42 belts running through the world tho
gloomy jacinth
basically half the map
wind spade
you can have 42 belts running through the world
gloomy jacinth
1 got a 1 block wide skywalk that is used for tubes, power and up to 10 belts. I dont wanna use 42 belts 😄
wind spade
and also, why not just move the hub/storage where those belts start? 😛
oblique hollow
Or process the stuff near the source
gloomy jacinth
Because I want my storage to be central
Producing on storage would decrease my clutter alot
wind spade
then use trains to transport 🙂
gloomy jacinth
but that ruins the fun
oblique hollow
You will not need a storage for raw ore or ingots
wind spade
trains are more fun than belts 🤔
gloomy jacinth
But trains need alot of energy
oblique hollow
100 for a train plus freight platform
gloomy jacinth
and I am not using atom and I dont plan on doing so
wind spade
well that's another issue... you'd need nuclear sooner or later if you plan to go big 🙂
gloomy jacinth
how much power do you guys use "going big"
oblique hollow
Gigawatts
(1000 MW = 1 GW)
More power means i can use more machines, which decreases production time
gloomy jacinth
problem is I really hate dealing with waste tho
wind spade
just build a few storage containers and you are fine for a long time
oblique hollow
Then go for a field of Fuel Generators, if thats your style
gloomy jacinth
oh god no. Coal it is
oblique hollow
Good, i second greenys tip. Either that or divert some items to a sink
wind spade
well if you are limiting yourself to lowest power generation available, then you shouldn't be surprised that solutions to your issue require more power than you can afford 🤔
gloomy jacinth
I dont have power issues lol. I only have a storage issue
wind spade
but your storage issue is resolved by more belts
which you don't want to do, so you need trains
and trains need more power, which you don't have
oblique hollow
Its a (vicious) cycle
gloomy jacinth
Its just ugly (right 42 belts) or no ugly (left 10 belts)
I cant even be bothered to run 42 belts through the world tbh
oblique hollow
Use another parallel line
gloomy jacinth
how long would that take
oblique hollow
What MK are those belts
gloomy jacinth
well 5 later on but 3 for now because this is just a test world
I am just stuck I guess. I need storage to store all the cr*p I produce but I cant because of overflow on either belts or in the storage itself...
oblique hollow
Aaand because you dont want trains or more power generators
Or you dont process the stuff on a sub-factory
gloomy jacinth
If I process next to my storage it would just look ugly :/
oblique hollow
After the high tier your storage will probably fail
I mean its already starting to
wind spade
look, in the end it's your call, but all the issues you are having are just because you set some artificial limits to what is ugly and what is not
also I'm fascinated by the fact that storage container placed near factory is ugly, but giant skybridge without supports isn't
zinc delta
oof, it takes a lot of planning to make one of these setups work, and having the higher tier logistics is helpful ie smart splitters, and use the sink!
vapid fiber
Hello, can someone help me out with the math for the fluid pipe calculation. I see the water pump have a max flow of 600m³/min and a pipe can do 300m³/min. As the pump has only one pipe exit, how this 600 to 300 is going to work?
oblique hollow
Max flow is 300 for pipes.
600 is currently not possible for pipes
600 for extractors if fully overclocked
So try not to overclock
vapid fiber
okay, got it, so it is not shown right here. Thanks.
Regarding overclock i see it is always overclocked. even without the (don't know the english name for it) in the machine.
oblique hollow
If you need more water, use parallel pipes
Yes some people have that issue. Maybe try rebuilding the extractor once. If that doesn't work then i dont know
vapid fiber
okay, thanks. got it.
so for my calculation i can see that coal power needs 45m³/min. A extractor can provide 120m³/min. so i can use 2 extractor for 5 coal power, is my calculation right?
rafly.
oblique hollow
2 for 5 should work, since they need 225 m3. But thats at maximum power usage
vapid fiber
with one pipe. okay, good.
so i have to build a lot of water excavators to suppot my power supply.
oblique hollow
3 for 5 also works but you need 2 pipes which have been balanced to 180 m3/min
vapid fiber
why two, one pipe can support 300m³/min and two excavators provide 240m³/min.
oblique hollow
Wait did i calculate wrong
wind spade
the second connection may be unnecessary
oblique hollow
Okay i checked, math checks out.
You had me worrying for a moment
8 coal gens need 360 m3/min, which 3 extractors can supply
nocturne flower
What's the new fuel generators fuel consumption?
vapid fiber
got it, @oblique hollow thanks for your support.
gloomy pollen
@nocturne flower seems like 15m³/min for normal fuel and 5m³/min for turbofuel this is at least what i was getting after some testing
still plinth
Hey all, what is the best RIP recipe? I have Stiched and Bolted.
untold crown
I use the bolted ones
they use a tiny bit more iron if i remember my math correctly but produce at 3x the rate per assembler
still plinth
yea crazy 15/m
I'm trying to calculate the iron use rn
Ok Bolted looks like 12 iron per RIP and Stiched looks like 5.02232142857 iron, 4.35267857143 copper per RIP
Don't quote me lmao
barren elm
You do need 2 extra assemblers to reach the same output though
That's 30mw, a full biomass generator or 6 coal per second
plush lantern
Anyone have a satisfactory plan for producing smart plating yet?
I keep getting hung up on the fact that rotors need 25 screws whereas RIPlates need 60 screws.
Should I just go hunting for the alternative recipes?
still plinth
The alt rotor I have needs 2 steel pipes and 12 wire to make 1
untold crown
casted screws (50 screws/m) and Bolted plates work well (15/m with 250screws/min input + 80 plates/m)
plush lantern
@untold crown that seems like it would work better. @still plinth this is pre tier 3 so I cant use steel yet.
still plinth
I'd recommend setting up 1 assembler to make the smart plating. It will be done the first stage in less than 30 minutes
untold crown
smart plating*
still plinth
🙂
glacial hemlock
You mean you are able to complete the first stage in 30mins? Wow
I am strugglling to get it unlocked under 2 hours
plush lantern
no the production of it takes 25minutes once you have one assembler running
untold crown
producing the smart plates required for it
glacial hemlock
Oh
still plinth
It only takes like 50? and an assembler makes them at 2/m
untold crown
setup before takes some time though
glacial hemlock
I use 2 assemblers though
plush lantern
@still plinth I just hate producing stuff inefficiently lol
toxic isle
I didn't even bother doing that, I can't be arsed to make 8 more biomass burners and run around fueling them just to automate RIPs and rotors
I hand crafted the stuff for tier 3+4 then threw it in the assembler then while that was running I ran around looking for some more green slugs, when I came back I had all the smart plates I needed
plush lantern
Yeah thats a good point
toxic isle
Then I realized unlocking coal needed fancy parts too lol
plush lantern
hand crafting 25 rotors is pretty easy
toxic isle
Went and handcrafted that too, I don't want to mess with the layout on my base too much since I haven't even started laying down foundations
plush lantern
Tbf If I have one complaint about the game, its that automating energy takes too much to get to. Biomass is just a massive bottleneck early, which actually encourages handcrafting over prod chains.
So I'd be much more likely to automate it all if I didnt have to worry about energy.
flint gull
hey! I would like to know how many fuel a fuel generator needs at full speed
glacial hemlock
the dilemma goes like this: you try to get something in large amount, but the power doesn't let you do so, so you go by hand crafting by trading 'some' time, and after you unlocked the tech you still need another large amount those needed but yet to automated items, which force you to continue to hand craft.
if it has to be automated, then automate it. If biomass are needed, just cut more trees!
silent sigil
anyone has excel production calculator for u3 willing to share?
silent sigil
thats good enough. how can you share it?
worthy siren
thanks, @wind spade
lusty magnet
Awesome work as always, thanks Greeny
glacial hemlock
Awesome recipes, so many alts that can be cascaded, i am excited to see the increase in potentials. Too bad Supercomputer didn't join the party
wind spade
@glacial hemlock most of them are pretty nerfed though, so I don't thonk we can repeat the 80% savings on HMF
lone yoke
The is a very good steel one still
torn plover
Anyone know where the closest water source to the grasslands starting location?
wind spade
There's a new lake afaik
wind spade
@elder vault you can check the link above, we have 70 alts right now
elder vault
awesome!
oh wow bolted iron plates seems really good
especially with the steel screw recipe
untold crown
steel screws to casted screws is just a minor difference tho. so if you don't have coal lying around casted screws are probably better
lone yoke
Do we have any map of the dune desert that has all the updated nodes on it yet?
wind spade
Not yet
lone yoke
ughhhh
I hate thaaaaat cause i cant pre-plan
ALso greeny, what the ratio that fuel gens eat up fuel?
@wind spade
wind spade
You can calculate that from fuel energy :)
lone yoke
from fuel energy?
untold crown
turbofuel has 2000MJ/m3 for example
lone yoke
Its more off trying to see how many fuel gens I can put on a pipe line that is 100 fluid m3/min
wind spade
lone yoke
uhhh
wind spade
Fuel gen does 150 MW, so 4 secs per 1m3 of fuel
untold crown
how do you get from joules to watt though? been too long since my pysics class in school
wind spade
1MW = 1MJ/s
lone yoke
ugh im confused
wind spade
1 m3 of fuel produces 600 MJ
Fuel gen can do max of 150 MW, so 150 MJ per second
So 600/150 = 4 (seconds per 1 fuel)
Or 60/4=15 fuel per minute
untold crown
ah ok
lone yoke
might be me but that doesnt exactly explain to me, how many fuel gens one refinery at normal clockspeed can do....
wind spade
Idk how many does 1 refinery produce fuel tho
lone yoke
40 fluid m3 per min
hollow condor
and gen eats 15
wind spade
Then 40/15 gens per refinery :)
lone yoke
so bassicly its like what 1 refinery is what 3? 4 fuel gens?
wind spade
2.666666
hollow condor
8/3
lone yoke
thats horrid
hollow condor
similar to coal plants and water pumps
lone yoke
thats just stupid ratios
wind spade
Underclock refinery to 75% and have 1 refinery to 2 gens
nocturne flower
Are oil pumps 240m3/min?
wind spade
Depends on purity
nocturne flower
Pure is what I meant
lusty magnet
Anyone got any leads on the alt recipe changes? I haven't found a hard drive yet, still figuring out the changes to base recipes
hoping iron wires are still a thing, but with copper being more relevant in general, maybe they got rid of it
cosmic hearth
Iron Wire is still in, though it's been rebalanced to be worse than copper wire
wind spade
cosmic hearth
And oil patches have purity, it's just not properly displayed when you look down at an oil patch. If you put an extractor on the node you'll get different volume depending on purity
wind spade
They had before as well
lusty magnet
Greeny were those datamined or did someone find all the alt recipes already?
wind spade
They are from data file that devs provide to community :)
lusty magnet
Not sure if a bug or am I misunderstanding the per-minute values, this says 11.25/min on the left and 3.75/min on the right?
when I do 3/16 * 60 I get the 11.25/min, which would make sense if it makes 3 every 16s, so I guess the 3.75/min on the right is bugged?
wind spade
The one on the right is number of cycles/min
jagged monolith
does anyone have a good setup for modular frames as of now?
lusty magnet
ah, so it's 3.75 cycles of 16s crafts per minute, got it
lusty magnet
it was just odd because the other rotor recipes lined up for those rates
but that's because the other rotor recipes craft 1x
so each cycle makes 1 rotor, making the cycles/min match rotors/min
wind spade
Yeah. Not even sure if the number is needed
sharp crow
wow so
if you're turning oil into turbofuel
it's more oil efficient (and produces more polymer resin) to turn the oil into heavy oil residue (the alternate) and turn the oil residue into turbofuel (the other alternate) than to turn it into fuel and turn the fuel into turbofuel
the only disadvantage is slightly higher compacted coal usage (1 coal per turbofuel as opposed to 0.8)
oil can produce nearly twice as much turbofuel this way
oblique hollow
isnt 0.44 < 0.55
sharp crow
yeah sorry i put the wrong numbers
ill edit it
this might take a sec
yeah the correct numbers are 1 coal per turbofuel vs 0.8 coal per turbofuel
sullen cloud
Doesn’t feel more efficient regarding all the power needed for all the additional production steps
sharp crow
it's the same number of steps
Crude Oil > Heavy Oil Residue > Turbofuel
VS
Crude Oil > Fuel > Turbofuel
although, doing it via heavy oil residue requires 2 alternate recipes
random island
small question... there is no more purity regarding oil ?
timber iris
so.. how the heck does this "sink" thing work.. like you dump stuff into it. I get that part.. but not only does it seem stuff has indavidual values, but the "cost" of a ticket.. goes up as well. I'm not entirely liking that some of the base design stuff was dumped behind this.
sullen cloud
@random island there is, but you can only see it when placing an extractor
dawn lark
@timber iris wait until you put a heavy frame in there
old sequoia
Is anyone else bothered by the ratios needed for rotors?
5 rods + 25 screws
except 1 rod = 4 screws, so you need 5 rods + 6.25 rods
blazing yew
@old sequoia umm
20 rods + 100 screws = 4 rotor assemblers.
Each getting 25
Merge 3 screw belts then output them into a splitter then two splitters creating 4 belts into 4 assemblers. Your ratio will be fine.
old sequoia
25 rods to each still creates a backup on rods
blazing yew
Turn the efficiency of the rods down until the ratio is exact.
sand garnet
Use alt rotors instead
Helps a lot when you need to start making motors as stators and alt rotors use the same items
ashen sleet
I'm really battling with the alt screw ratio
12.5 is very strange, it feels bad to underclock a smelter to 25 from 30, but I assume the value of the alt is the power savings?
glacial hemlock
Get mk3 belt ready, then setup manifolds. Solves many ratio problems
steep vigil
Does anyone know where the power slug here is? There is nothing above and I cant find a cave entrance anywhere
mossy sky
Hi folks, I have a pretty noob question I'd like your help with: how do splitters work? Is it like 🇦 or 🇧 ?
sullen cloud
A
wind spade
A then B if machines eat 20 ppm
mossy sky
the machines eat 20 ppm indeed
...but they all show an efficiency of ~70%. Why not 100% in that case?
wind spade
Do you provide 120 ipm? Is output blocked? Are the first machines full of input?
tardy umbra
hey guys, did the coal power ratios change? if so does anyone have the math for the coal power done? as in how many generators per coal node
wind spade
depends on purity and miner mk
daring slate
Coal power: 120 coal/min, 8 Coal gens, 3 Water Extractors is a balanced set up
dawn lark
75mw each
wind spade
previously 10.8 gens = 540 MW
tardy umbra
yup ik that, that i obv
dawn lark
15 coal/min at max
tardy umbra
ok ok tx
dawn lark
Btw can anyone shed some light on the fuel gens? The time is listed as 0, afaik they're taking less than a second per cycle
Which would mean >60/ min
But since my fuel production keeps backing up (8 refineries at 20/m) that means my 10 generators are on average using only 3.75 fuel/min
Or rather, less than that
sullen cloud
Fuel gens take 15/min at 100% with normal Fuel
dawn lark
🤔
So why are the cycles super fast, even at a moderate load?
My best guess right now is that they actually use 0.1 of a unit every 0.4 seconds
Which would make for the same rate per minute
wind spade
because the game actually counts liquid in liters (dm3)
or 1/1000th of m3
so 1 unit of fuel in game terms is actually 1/1000th of m3 of fuel
dawn lark
Oh man, that's starting to make even less sense on the surface lol
So a refinery producing 20m3 /min is creating 20,000 liters / m
Soooo the cycle time is 0.004 seconds to consume 15m3 per min?
wind spade
idk what's the cycle time
generators don't work on cycles
they convert fuel energy to power
dawn lark
Well it uses the same interface as the coal generator, the coal generator simply listing a 4 second cycle time for a simple 15/m ratio
But the fuel generator lists 0 in the UI and is "cycling" stupid fast
sullen cloud
Yeah, the fuel gens‘s UI is broken, thus I would not rely on it to derive numbers from it
dawn lark
From what I can tell the adaptive nature of generators just makes the cycles take longer than 4 seconds when a coal gen isn't at capacity
So what I'm trying to fathom is if the same idea applies to the fuel gens, and they also use 15/m at capacity they must be using 1m3 every 4 seconds, and if each cycle uses a liter instead of 1m3 then each cycle had to be doing something like 0.004 seconds per liter
sullen cloud
that's the math greeny derived the 15/min for fuel gens from
carmine ether
Hello, everyone
Does anyone have a json or something like that with all production rate, input and output of all resources?
daring slate
oh, json, no idea sorry. There's a google sheet somewhere that was extracted from the gamefiles, maybe they have a way of getting one for you
daring slate
@wind spade is the dev
brave notch
Unrelated, I remember I once calculated the power generated per litre of Hydrogen Gas in Space Engineers and it was worse than dropping a cup of water in the world's most efficient hydro-electric dam.
wind spade
again, generators don't work with any cycles
generators just convert the energy from the fuel to power to your network
dawn lark
I'm still getting a 0.004 second "cycle" per liter xD (at max draw)
wind spade
essentially it's something like this:
every game tick:
check how much power is needed from the generator
substract that amount of energy from the currently used fuel.
if 1 item of fuel is used
start using another fuel
Hey, @wind spade do you have a json or some document like that with all production rate of the game resources?
wind spade
yeah, it's actually in game files (CommunityResources/Docs.json)
I'm just using a parser to gather the data from the file into a bit more readable format
carmine ether
Ohhh, nice. Thank you
wind spade
which I then use for my tools
so if you want to do some crazy shit with it, I can provide the parsed file as well
carmine ether
Yes, I want it too
molten fjord
Discord Greeny is a human version of the website
dawn lark
Okay if I understand this right since turbo fuel has 2000MJ per m3 then a maxed fuel gen burning it would use 4.5 per minute
And 0.075 per second
wind spade
or my website is AI version of me?
dawn lark
So 0.01333 seconds per liter of turbo fuel
molten fjord
Uploading your mind to the cloud
dawn lark
Poking around the various energy sources I've found that due to solid bio fuel having a 200 stack size it's still more energy compact than both packaged fuel and packaged liquid bio fuel on a per stack basis
wind spade
hmm, how much does it matter though?
dawn lark
When I'm using it in a car trying to avoid refueling on long trips xD
wind spade
I'd use batteries or turbofuel for a car
dawn lark
Stack value:
- solid: 90k
- fuel: 60k
- liquid bio: 75k
- turbo: 200k
fading ember
@wind spade when will u update web calculator?
dawn lark
Yeah, this is trying to find what works when turbo or batteries might not be available yet
wind spade
@fading ember it takes a lot of time, you can find more info in my recent post (as well as the new item browser, which is the first tool that got updated to the new update): https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/f4cyp7/complete_item_list_from_update_3_including_recipes/
wind spade
and then you have batteries with 600k xD
dawn lark
Hmmm, petrol coke is only 180 MJ per unit, but has a 200 stack size, so it has 36k, still beating regular coal in the "per stack" value
Oh yeah, batteries easily
If you have them xD
Lol packaged crude is 32k
wind spade
don't know if you can put crude oil in vehicles directly
dawn lark
Yeah it's an amusing thought though
Ya know what's even more hilarious though?
37.5 million per stack in my nuclear power car
Don't mind the extra limbs
wind spade
I know it was possible at some point, but didn't they remove it?
dawn lark
I know the slug crystals worked at one point
wind spade
also, 28 meters radius of radiation for that nuclear powered car
carmine thicket
how many smelters for a mk2 pure iron node(not overclocked) with mk3 belts?
glacial hemlock
240/30=8
glacial hemlock
smelter intake
carmine thicket
alright sweet, thanks again
prime pine
hey guys, can anyone explain the values of the water extractor to the generators? we can power 6 coal generators which needs 45kg each from only 1 singel water extractor. How is that the case when the output on one water extractor is only 120k? 120/45=2,6?
oblique hollow
this is a setup for a 3 to 8 ratio. might help explain
prime pine
aah, but how is my 6 generators only running on 1? 😛
oblique hollow
are you running on full power?
prime pine
pretty much
oblique hollow
do your machines draw all the available power, that is
prime pine
let's see
barren elm
They're not running on 1
glacial hemlock
Show your power graph? Or you had OCed your extractor?
barren elm
You're either not using 100% of the power, or you've got more water from elsewhere
Most likely the former
prime pine
@barren elm yepp im not, probably the issue
last fable
yup, the power generators only draw as many ressources as they need to produce power
would love if they changed that somewhere down the line though with some generators always producing max output and others adjusting to current need so you don't just always use the "best" generator available to you (maybe together with fluctuating outputs from renewable generators? 😉 )
oblique hollow
but always running at max is inefficient. wasted power
barren elm
There is no best generator
The only objectively bad one is biomass, and even that has some uses, albeit few
Oil gens might produce more power, but at the same time oil is a far rarer resource than coal is
As for nuclear, well, you have to manage the waste, no matter how small that management is
nocturne flower
Well @barren elm , I would argue and only minimally so that fuel ends up having the best overall result. Especially now, with the right Alt recipes you can produce turbo fuel and feed many of them using byproducts of producing the plastic and rubber you need.
This is theoretical for now, but it does appear that opportunity is available where coal generators eat resources that may be more challenging to keep fed while also sustaining production.
Then again, if awarded the right Alt recipes I see some opportunity to use oil and it's byproducts to replace coal mines to produce your steel. Just in general a lot of flexibility now, but I suspect fuel wins in the end.
Nuclear is more like having a few is good, but not a primary power source really
still plinth
For making Encased Beams. The pipe recipe saves you a ton of steel for slower production correct? I was trying to do that math and it looks like pipes is 10.5 steel per EIB and beams are 16 steel per EIB. Can anyone confirm?
marble tapir
I struggle with the math a bit, a coal generator uses how much coal per min? Assuming its not over/under clocked and is under a full load.
it doesnt tell you like everything else, it has seconds rather than consumes x per min
fierce vigil
where are the walls for conveyor ?
oblique hollow
shop
astral hornet
Dang @brave notch nice
fading ember
How much coal generator eat coal/min on full power?
barren elm
15
fading ember
Only 15 for 1 generator?
humble stratus
It was 11,1111... before the update
lime loom
How much fuel does a fuel generator use/minute?
worldly condor
ok, is there an up date floor plan repository/google drive thing?
teal bolt
dis any good??
nocturne flower
Yes-ish. From what I gather recycled rubber is better because plastic produces more Heavy Oil residue.
But effectively, mass producing plastic or rubber and using this to convert it as needed is a solid plan. Keeps conveyors and train cars cleaner
teal bolt
ah i see
nocturne flower
I'm not quite this far yet so not a lot of first hand Experience with these yet. My old saves though I basically only produce rubber. So this recipe is probably still great if that playstyle is still relevant
Overall I'm hoping to get both lol
crisp pelican
I've just been running rows of 3 water extractors to a single pipe. I should probably downclock them a little, and re-visit how I've got my foundations set up as I could probably narrow the space I have for each row.
marble tapir
Is it always cheaper on power to underclock stuff, if you replace the lost production with more underclocked machines?
Say there was a machine that did 100 parts per min at 100%. Would it cost less MW to have 100 of them running at 1% than having the one run at 100% ?
wind spade
yeah
underclocking and building more is always better
though at some point it's not worth
because you get less FPS from the gigantic factories
essentially slowing down your production 😄
errant dragon
Does somebody have the recipes list for Update 3 as a CSV, JSON, or some other parsable file?
Ping me
wind spade
@errant dragon yes
errant dragon
👀
wind spade
even have it in a nice graphical way https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev
but on the background it reads data from JSON file
errant dragon
thx
Gonna generate a list of the ore density of each item to help transportation decisions
wind spade
@errant dragon doesn't ore density depend on recipes used?
brave notch
62 Foundation Footprint vs 80 Originally.
oblique hollow
too bad i cant tell which building is which :I
brave notch
They're all Water Extractors.
errant dragon
Yeah, but I can just represent each item as multiple alternatives
oblique hollow
oh jeez
brave notch
This gives 6 lines of 300 Kl/min
wind spade
well with current amount of alts, one item can be represented in even hundreds of combinations imo
especially some lategame ones
errant dragon
Yeah, representation is gonna be wierd
anyway, it's gonna calculate everything as a massive array of alternates, and because I'm gonna use haskell I shouldn't have a problem calculating in parallel
still plinth
Does anyone know if Encase beams or Encased pipes are better?
errant dragon
I, uhhh...... I'm having trouble finding the JSON file
@wind spade can I get the URL of the JSON file?
wind spade
oh the json file is included directly in the js file
I thought you just want the data
safe hill
@still plinth Encased Pipes, 10.5 Steel instead of 16 per Encased Industrial Beam
still plinth
@safe hill thanks for confirming I was getting similar numbers but I wasn't sure on my math haha
safe hill
np
hollow drum
so good sirs here, anyone willing to tell me how many fuel generators can one refinery carry? (making fuel straight from crude oil)
sullen cloud
fresh gulch
are there any reverse calculators so I can figure out how many machines I should build based on my belt max?
wind spade
there's consumption tool on my site, though same as other tools, it isn't updated to U3 yet
fresh gulch
thanks
orchid dawn
2.66 fuel generators per refinery running normal fuel, but how much turbofuel fed generators per turbofuel refinery?
I just dont know how to find out the consumption rate for the generators on turbofuel, it says 0/s 😦
wind spade
you don't calculate fuel consumption rate, you need to calculate it from turbofuel energy value
same as in the screenshoted fuel calculation (done by me btw 😄 )
orchid dawn
I'm not aware of turbofuel's value, at least I cant seem to find it
whole bolt
How much coal per min does the coal generator use?
wind spade
@orchid dawn you can find it in my new item browser https://update3.satisfactory.greeny.dev/
orchid dawn
Huh, wasnt aware of this, this'll help a lot, thanks
wind spade
(fyi I'm just lazy to do the maths and I should be blamed for not helping 😄 )
orchid dawn
Its easy when you have the numbers, much much harder without em
wind spade
anyway, 1m3 of turbofuel is 2000 MJ, so fuel gen that can make 150MW consumes 1m3 of turbofuel in 13.33333 seconds, so 4.5 m3 of turbofuel per minute on max load
yeah they don't show energy values unfortunately
so now people are asking for burn times, which are not constant
well, I don't blame them 😄
wind spade
not yet. I'm working on it. Closest thing to that is recipe browser (linked a few messages up ^^ )
that just displays recipes tho
wind spade
yea dw. I think everybody has the same issue as I do
nobody really was counting on multiple recipe outputs
and the update is pretty huge
dry geode
i tought multiple recipe was in longer ^^
wind spade
no, they added that just now
dry geode
didnt really play satisfactory before update 3
wind spade
there wasn't a recipe that would produce two different things at the same time
crisp pelican
Assessing all of that stuff is going to be fairly complicated.
dawn lark
I have concluded that without any alt recipes for plastic, you'll always have potential back up problems
wind spade
funny how "alt plastic" was always a forbidden word and now it's actually something
dawn lark
Because even if you use all of your plastic to make canisters you'll make more fuel than can be packaged and thus cannot be automatically removed with a sink
rancid socket
bois is 10.8 nuclear rods/min still 54 reactors? or did they change the consumption time
cunning vector
Hey has anyone got a production calculator that’s compatible with update 3?
sullen cloud
none of the caluculators have been updated so far
sand garnet
hey @wind spade what's the consumption for fuel gens per min?
@ebon egret ^ if anyone knows, it's the people here 😛
wind spade
ebon egret
dawn lark
@sand garnet 15 m3 fuel per min
glacial hemlock
A lot of new alts almost double the product, if you are willing to sacrifice some of the oil products or coal.
fallow lily
The devs really ramped up the complexity with oil in this update.
barren elm
Which is good because it was criminally simple before
Plus it always kinda bothered me how you just get this endless stream of free metal barrels, I know that's pretty minor but it still felt jarring
carmine thicket
how many refineries will a normal oil node support making fuel?
is it one node, 3 refineries, and 8 fuel generators for best ratio?
crisp pelican
Umm, not sure. I've got an overclocked pure node supplying 7 refineries (max is 7.5)
undone lodge
of what I could tell, without overclocked its 1 node per 2 refineries
untold crown
So if i didn‘t miscalculate the rebalanced recipes allow for even more nuclear fuel rods from a single uranium node then EA.
EA: 36.4/min
EX: 40.95/min
urban drum
how much coal does a coal gen use a min?
fallow lily
15/min
fierce ruin
left kernel
is there a way to know how many constructors I would need to maximize a miner's efficiency?
e.g I presume a normal iron ore miner MK1 would be 2 smelters but don't know how to calculate after that (iron rods, plates, etc.)
spiral remnant
If you set a production facility to produce something, it tells you how many resources/min it needs
So for example, a Mk1 miner on a normal iron node produces 60 iron ore/min, and it says as much
And if you set a smelter to produce iron ingots, it'll tell you that a single smelter processes 30 iron ore/min to produce 30 iron ingots/min
left kernel
ohh so for instance, 2 iron plates which produce 20/min would require 3 iron ingots at 30/min. Meaning that one smelter will be used up and won't be wise to split the smelter production
spiral remnant
Yeah
Exactly
It's easiest to think of all resources as /min rather than anything else
left kernel
yep
I presume each tier is double the previous (impure = 30/min, normal = 60/min, pure = 120/min)?
slow citrus
yep
left kernel
I see, I see...
spiral remnant
And once you unlock mk2 miners it further doubles that, etc
left kernel
What if it's multiple miners, would it be wise to leave them on their own or combine them (eg. 2 normal iron nodes)
spiral remnant
Hmm, there's no obvious answer to that. It heavily depends on what you're doing.
It could streamline your production lines to combine them, but keep in mind that you're limited by your belt speed. A Mk1 belt can only transport 60 items/min.
left kernel
hmm. doing 2 60/min miners and combining them on a MK2 belt might work, if it works that way .
spiral remnant
Yeah, it does. Later on, you might want to, for example...
Have a bigger smelter complex with 8 smelters working parallel, feed into it from 4 different iron nodes, and use Mk3 belts to transport out 240 iron ingots/min
And then direct some of those ingots into various points that need them
left kernel
Which explains why people may underclock some things
spiral remnant
Underclocking is usually for evening out production later on, but yeah
left kernel
I see a tricky recipe but could be easy to figure out. Needs 12.5/min despite a smelter producing 30/min
spiral remnant
Yeah, that kind of stuff is what you might want to use underclocking for. You could just underclock your smelter to produce 25/min to even it out.
That way it consumes less power and produces no waste.
...Or you could have 5 smelters for a total of 150/min production, which would evenly split for 24 x 12.5/min
but that might be overkill for your purposes~
left kernel
yea just a tad (24 constructors all producing 20 screws)
spiral remnant
Screws are awful
round python
i usually run the spare ingots into my metal sheet productions before i underclock - cause i never have enough of those 😉
you start out with a filled industrial storage of sheets - then you build a little heavy frame line and poof those sheets are gone
digital eagle
Stupid question... with the new coal generators and their water requirements it seems one cannot "daisy-chain" generators like before. And it's somewhat a hassle to generate water for the generators; a single pipe is 300m3/m, while a stack of 6 generators requires 270. But even satisfying that full pipe is problematic, as each water pump is 120 m3/m. With 3 power slugs this is easy, but without it's somewhat annoying and hard (placing multiple pumps next to each other + potentially limited deep water area + need to daisy chain 3 and underclock).
Is there a better way that I'm possibly missing?
spiral remnant
Without overclocking, you can have 5 water extractors feed into 2 pipes to max them both out (a total of 600m³/min)
left kernel
would it be 2 pumps going into 8 generators and 1 pump splitting into the 2?
spiral remnant
But that doesn't really solve the placement issue
digital eagle
On a side note: why does the water pump say the max is 600? 😮
digital eagle
But the pump itself can generate 300 max, so it would be odd without mk2 pumps.
round python
my guess is that it will take less than a month after its out of experimental till someone has a mod for mk2 pipes
spiral remnant
You could just put two pumps to feed into a single mk2 pipe, but this is pretty hypothetical anyway for now
digital eagle
I do like the 5 pumps => 2 full pipes. No clue how easy that is to place and connect given deep water woes (and generally working with deep water)...
spiral remnant
It's a bit awkward, yeah. But that's how I did it.
digital eagle
(Thus far I've just build 2 pumps with each running 3 shards for 12 generators)
spiral remnant
I technically have 10 pumps filling 4 full pipes, at the waterfall place in Dune Desert
Though I don't yet have use for all that water (I only have 16 coal generators)
digital eagle
Probably same place I set up my current 2 pumps.
digital eagle
I don't doubt that; it's just that working with deep water is annoying.
If I'm going to attempt this then I suspect building a platform above the lake could make things a lot easier.
worldly condor
do pipes have directions like conveyor belts?
digital eagle
No.
spiral remnant
Yeah, a bird's eye view should be really helpful
worldly condor
so, assume I have 5 water pumps in a single line, and do a sort of T form pipe, with the middle pump splitting into two
digital eagle
@worldly condor There's obviously a direction in which liquid flows, but pipes themselves are "directionless".
worldly condor
basically, im trying to make two 300 m3/s pipes
idea is, is it splits from the center one (60 in each direction)
spiral remnant
That's how I did it, @worldly condor , yeah.
worldly condor
so hopefully, i have two 300 pipes going in different directions
spiral remnant
Technically I think you can just connect the two pipes together, though
There isn't really direction for water, it just fills the pipes. There's no real "movement"
digital eagle
I wonder if the pipe-splitters have a higher throughput to facilitate splitting of high volume amounts... or if it's all capped at 300...
spiral remnant
As long as both of the pipes are connected at any point, they both get filled
digital eagle
Neat.
digital eagle
Personally I built a water tank next to a generator stack... Not sure if there's any point in it tho.
I'm thinking... probably not. If I ever hit a breaker, then water consumption stops and the generators (assuming they were sufficiently filled before) shouldn't suddenly become empty, right?
worldly condor
yeah, and pipes hold some amount as well
im just trying to, erm, make my power gen more space efficient and expand it
Cause I need lots of power to start of with oil
before I get fuel generators. God, Oil is so complex now
And one pure coal node with mk2 miner can support 16 generators, but then it gets fucky with the water
Hmm, with mk 3 belts and overclocked miner, 270 coal/min should supply 18 generators, it just gets fucky with water, as you need additional 2.5 pumps.
spiral remnant
Oil is definitely more complex now, but if you don't care about 100% optimising it, it's not too difficult to set up a nice fuel generator plant
I think pipes have complicated aluminium production the most by far, though. The maths works out nicely if you do them, but it's such a many-stage process with three different fluids in your pipes...
glacial hemlock
Not that difficult if you played bob-angel before.
iron cypress
what if u didnt
glacial hemlock
Then it is.
sand garnet
so most people will find it difficult lol
tight lintel
does anyone have an upadated flow chart for the experimental?
my notepad is getting pretty janky atm 😛
willow igloo
Factorio:. Let's make oil simpler in the beginning game to make it easier for new players. Satisfactory: oil is too easy, let's make it harder
wind spade
Factorio is still harder though
glacial hemlock
Factorio: nitric acid -- you know the pain.
You have not enough ammonia, as always!
junior yew
I know you lose pressure with elevation gains with pipes... But do you gain pressure with elevation drops?
proven sphinx
i need some math help, anyone up for it? x)
i got a pipe of 300 m3/min crude oil
thats enough for 5 refineries, witch will output 200 m3/min of fuel ...
thats 13.3 fuel generators witch consumes 15 m3/min am i correct?
sullen cloud
yeah, absolutely
dawn lark
Yup
proven sphinx
how would it be most efficient to get a round number of fuel generators?
sullen cloud
just underclock the last generator to 33%
then it's the 100% efficient solution (if you had 100% power usage)
dawn lark
Or 30% so you have a tiny bit surplus heh
proven sphinx
im always calculating with 100% power usage
but if i think even bigger ... 3 pipes of crude can provide for 15 refineries , that gives 600 m3/min of fuel.... how would it be best to divide the pipes to get 300 m3/min x2 output ?
sullen cloud
as pipes max flow rate is 300/min, two pipelines?
proven sphinx
1 pipe has a max flow rate of 300/min yes .. so 15 refineries would give 600, but would have to divide it to get 300 output on 2 pipes ...
wind spade
Yeah and what's the issue?
proven sphinx
what would be the best way to split the pupes ? cause that would demand decimals so half refineries
dawn lark
7 on 1 pipe, 7 in the other, the 15th splits to both
wind spade
| |
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R
you can put the top two pipes almost anywhere anywya
proven sphinx
wait, so it doesnt matter if the refineries provide 600 aslong as i output 2 pipes?
wind spade
as long as no pipe segment must carry more than 300, it's fine
proven sphinx
aah thanks ! i was affraid i would have to divide the 15 x refineries to 300 each x) but if i can just make a manifold like that then its no problem
worldly condor
I really hope it works as I expect
fallen ingot
@worldly condor keep us posted
cedar mica
So 1 refinery packs 60m3 water a minute? Which means I need 10 to deal with 1 pipe worth of liquid?
glacial hemlock
How about a looped pipe, not sure if the fluid splits to left and right equally.
wind spade
they will eventually balance out probably, it's the same as manifolds for belts 🙂
cedar mica
10 refinerys, 5 at each end
tacit nova
@trim oar https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558721941410807812/678649413983404043/3_to_8_Coal_gen.png
That is to my knowledge the best ratio that can currently be achieved
You are trying to achieve 10 gens with 2 extractors, supplying a total 240m³ for a consumption of 450m³
It will work fine unless your energy network actually requires that energy, if that happens your gens will start running out of water
trim oar
nonononono
i have two pumps wit heach 240m³ so total of 460m³ per minute
i overclocked them
trim oar
sorry i am tired but the water seems to be enough
tacit nova
Ohh I didnt see the OC yeah
But all of the gens seem completely filled with water to me
tacit nova
Overclock
trim oar
oh ok
yes they are full but the gauge wont works
and one of the pumps is off most of time
tacit nova
Oh thats because your gens dont actually need all that water (yet)
trim oar
i know
tacit nova
And the flow rate is shown as lower because its like .. like I wrote in ingame, imagine it being like the coal, except the pipe shows you the actual throughput instead of a visualization
The flow rate is lower because the water doesnt have anywhere to go, if you flush the pipe network you will get the actual flow rate displayed
trim oar
i dont want to empty the pipes completely because that would give an error in the pipe network so the pipe takes forever to fill up again
tacit nova
You can empty just one pipe
trim oar
yeah not now
tacit nova
Or install a buffer
trim oar
the problem is i have more than 300m³ per min if i build one buffer tank
tacit nova
the tank shouldnt increase the amount
tulip bronze
Turbo-Fuel inspires me but, what do you think about steel rotor? (The third one on the left looks kinda meh)
glacial hemlock
steel rotor seems good for early game. Iron alloy really meh, consider you can wash the ores to get 1.8 to 2.5x the product.
barren elm
Steel rotor is great
It lines up perfectly with stators and uses the same ingredients
Iron Alloy isn't bad really
Essentially you pay 4mw in power to get a free iron ingot
tulip bronze
oh, ok! Rotor be it then. Thanks.
scarlet marsh
anyone have list of best alternate recipes?
wind spade
how do you define "best" alternate recipe?
zenith granite
open willow
Hmmmm, which one would be best? I have no idea as i haven't gotten too far into the game, I'm leaning toward the iron plate though
wind spade
iron wire sucks, concrete you usually have enough, so I'd go with the 3rd one
open willow
Thanks
scarlet marsh
probably define best as the best at minimizing input materials
getting more for less
wind spade
yeah, that's hard to quantify. Usually the benefit gets better/worse when you stack certain alts
scarlet marsh
okay yeah, are there any that you strongly recommend though?
scarlet marsh
ok
light meteor
Okay I have 2x impure coal nodes. How many coal gens can these power?\
scarlet marsh
enough for your needs at the moment
not sure off the top of my head
but gens dont use much coal
i think i have 6 running off a pure one
scarlet marsh
probably, im sure someone knows how much coal the gens consume
light meteor
I am horrible at math
scarlet marsh
it doesnt say on the gen like most machines
ruby monolith
o/
lemme grab the infographic
@oblique hollow you got the graphic handy for perfect water?
oblique hollow
The pump graph?
ruby monolith
yea
oblique hollow
Here ya go
ruby monolith
the other one that shows the U bends
ruby monolith
the 5 to 2 ratio setup
supple zealot
Thats what I did
supple zealot
i mean, you can make it all pretty lol, but I just divide by what the coal provides
15 coal plants per 2.25 water pipes doesnt work...
oblique hollow
Multiply this by 2 to get 16 gens
ruby monolith
that's missing pipe capacity though
supple zealot
pipes are cheap 🙂
ruby monolith
add another to the top and bottom and you max out pipe runs. personally I've got about 1500m of travel to water
oblique hollow
Thats the same as saying: its missing belt capacity
ruby monolith
I'd just add an extractor to the top and bottom of that and run 6 gens off each pipe
supple zealot
2 water pumps per 5 coal pumps is 94% efficient, and easy to remember
ruby monolith
you could run a 7th at 67% on each pipe that way too
oblique hollow
3 for 8 is 100%. Just the pipes arent used to max
supple zealot
and scales evenly with coal. got 60 coal/min, need 15 gens, 6 pumps. got 240 coal? times that by 4
its only 1% mroe efficient to do the whole 5 pumps per 2 pipes thing, and way more complicated
oblique hollow
240 coal is 16 gens though
supple zealot
did I not do my math right? coal takes 4 seconds to burn
oblique hollow
Is 15 /min
supple zealot
60 seconds to a minute, 15 generators per 60 coal
oblique hollow
60 / 4 is 15
ruby monolith
15 coal/min at 100%
daring slate
This set-up: 3 Water Extractors, 8 Coal Generators and 120 Coal/min input is 100% efficent (as far as I know)
oblique hollow
4 seconds for one coal. Wait 15 times and you got 60 coal
supple zealot
no, im just dumb
oblique hollow
Yes, 4 for 60
supple zealot
spent more time getting water right than the darn belt lol
oblique hollow
Cybes that setup is literally filling one pipe with 360 water /min
supple zealot
Its load balancing
oblique hollow
One pipe can only handle 300
supple zealot
its filling 1 side with 240, which some is used by the time its on the other end
where the last tops it off
ruby monolith
it's subtractive at each load
supple zealot
@daring slate, easiest, best setup ive seen
oblique hollow
Alright i shouldn't calculate any damn ratios anymore today and get back to work
supple zealot
least you didnt try convincing people that 60/min runs 15 coal gens... :/
oblique hollow
Its easy to abstract pipes to time invariant numbers, but the game has time and space so its all just a faulty model if not taken into account.
Its just way to enticing to work with those numbers instead of timeline calculations
Which brings me to these kinds of assumptions
daring slate
@oblique hollow The flow of water near the middle is 0, preassure being added from both ends
oblique hollow
Belts are easy, they go one way. I know pipes are bidirectional but i still have to get used to the way they act
daring slate
0.1 MW or 0.1xActive?
summer field
0.1 MW, far as I recall.
daring slate
alright, thanks, negligible then 🙂
woeful glacier
should I wait a month to buy it on steam or should I buy it now on epic and then on steam in a few months again?
as in, what are the benefits of buying it on steam vs buying it on Epic (other than the devs get more money if I buy it on EGS)
also, I've heard that it's DRM Free. Is that true? Do I have to have the EG Launcher open when I play the game?
oh this may be the wrong chat
daring slate
Am I missing something or is the alternate recipie for Industrial Beams more expensive and slower?