I can delete tools and then leave server ez
#math-and-meta
wind spade
fierce ruin
I restarted 2 days ago and I'm already tier 6
My first run took me like 2 weeks to get to t6
summer field
Does the game have any good "new" features for you?
wind spade
more lag and more salty mods
summer field
more salty mods isn't a feature, we hit peak saltyness more than a year ago.
saltyness? saltiness? ๐ค
fierce ruin
Just realized that the xeno-basher basically means alien-basher
Didn't Kno they put xeno as a reference to the prefix just thought it was a cool name lol
summer field
But technically, you're the alien.
fierce ruin
tru
when u guys make hmfs do u put all of your modular frame production in one place or spread it out among the different manufacturers
fierce ruin
@wind spade crystal computer yay/nay?
eager moth
Crystal and quickwire computers are both good, I think crystal is slightly more efficient but I'd pick whichever resource you have more of
patent bough
Hm. About to have 100GW of power with 8 fuel rods per minute. What on Earth will I do with all that capacity...
glossy patrol
is there a reason to keep making steel beams after unloking the alternate recipe for encased?
empty hemlock
i think train tracks use steel beams
patent bough
There's like one other alt recipe that uses steel beams I forget
But you'll literally never need more than 1 or 2 steel beam constructors
Oh, alt beacon uses steel beams
And alt nuclear fuel rod needs beacons
Combining the recipes, 1 steel beam constructor is enough for 25 nuclear fuel rods a minute (well and you know all the other parts)
sand garnet
Alt beacon kinda sucks though
@glossy patrol you are better off using the 'stitched iron plates' alt recipe for reinforced iron plates
patent bough
Fair; it saves a lot of iron but costs other resources you may value more. Anyhow point being that's the only possible practical use of steel beams besides storing them for railroad construction material
sand garnet
Yes i personally dont even make any right now. I only set it up if i run out of a supply of steel beams
glossy patrol
@sand garnet im using that alt because I do not have the stitched one yet. I do however have iron wire and the iron + copper iron bar
patent bough
Hm yep, raw resource wise alt beacon is slightly inferior. (10/min shown)
Oh I forgot alt steel
wind spade
@fierce ruin crystal computer > caterium computer > normal computer
alt beacon is super bad
it uses rare resources instead of just iron
@glossy patrol yes, SIPs are better than the RIP alt, that's why I recommend getting them asap (ideally in tier 1)
patent bough
Looks like it uses slightly less total resources but more power, and yes more rare resources. Though whether the rarity matters depends how much else you could be doing with those materials instead....
(Hid the iron wire / iron ingot columns because those are always on)
wind spade
20.7 oil per beacon is a bit too much imo
since oil is usually the bottleneck in lategame factories
patent bough
That's for 10 beacons but yeah
wind spade
ah, ok
patent bough
It's also a more convoluted setup
I may have made the mistake of building alt beacons into my nuclear setup. Oh well.
glossy patrol
@wind spade but the alt RIP is still better than standard RIP
wind spade
sure, but there's no point in taking it, if you're gonna upgrade to SIP anyway
glossy patrol
true, I gotta explore a bit more then
patent bough
I wish the hard drive research just let you pick from all currently available alt recipes instead of just 3 random ones
Especially by tier 7 there are just so many junk recipes and having to reload 20 times to get one is annoying
sand garnet
Why didnt you keep researching throughout your gameplay
wind spade
that's why you should get the recipes when you get to that tier
I usually get SIP, Iron Wire and Iron Alloy while still at T1
patent bough
I mean I did research a lot but unless I save/reloaded I kept getting crap recipes until I literally got almost every recipe. (Of course after I got what I wanted I later got everything and a spare hard drive).
I just don't usually go looking for drives as much early. Uh also I have no sense of direction so using the online drive map doesn't help me unless I unlock my own map.
I do usually get SIP early and that's pretty much the best low tier recipe
And iron wire. The ingot alloy isn't usable until 3/4 though how would you get it at tier 1?
Requires foundry.
wind spade
yeah but somehow the alt is available at T1
so I get it in T1 ๐
not every time tho
only if I have 3 drives at the begining
if I only have two, I skip it for the moment
glacial hemlock
And alts can't be hand crafted, thats the point
rough furnace
ok, so that is official, I always wondered I was missing something
sand garnet
I mean, it's been official ever since it was mentioned in patch notes like.. months ago
rich tusk
^
fierce ruin
Is overclocking coal generators less efficient than building more?
sand garnet
yes.
wind spade
no
summer field
maybe
wind spade
it has the same efficiency
you don't lose power
though 250% overclocked gen produces only around 200% of electricity
sand garnet
so it's less efficient per coal
wind spade
nope
you still get 270 MW from each coal
no matter how you overclock/underclock
or rather 270 MJ
sand garnet
remembers he doesnt understand math in this game and realizes math-and-meta is not the right place lol
sand garnet
i suck at math in real life too
wind spade
the fuel item has energy (e.g. coal piece has 220 MJ) and generators just transfer that energy from the coal piece to your power network
summer field
I have yet to see evidence of the existence of math in real life.
wind spade
overclocking generators just change the speed of the extraction
normal gen can do max 50 MJ / sec
250% overclocked can do around 100 MJ / sec
rigid knoll
yeah, the simplest way to think about it is that the overclock percent on a power generator is a lie. "250%" really means more like 200%
normally yes, but on power generators it's a lie and it's less
fierce ruin
so should i overclock or build more
rigid knoll
it doesn't matter; it's a question of whether building another generator and belting to it or 3 power shards is more expensive to you
glacial hemlock
It doesn't matter anymore if you could find 100 Doggos to constantly spit out purple slugs for you.
fierce ruin
but it isnt inefficient?
glossy patrol
woo! I got the alt for plates
wind spade
@fierce ruin basically you don't lose anything by overclocking generators
but you also don't gain anything
so the only variables you should decide upon are:
- available space
- available materials
- available power shards
- if you want larger or smaller setup
@tidal ember what do you mean by that?
fierce ruin
Can someone who built a full scale factory tell me, if the red marked area is sufficient? (thought about going about 50 wall-'blocks' high)
wind spade
separated factories are much better than one big factory btw
also, sufficient for what?
cedar mica
@wind spade Think I might have crashed the Consumption tool on my end. I click on power as one of the things
wind spade
happens sometimes if you have a lot of stuff there
unfortunatelly that's the limitation of the simplex lib I'm using
cedar mica
How do I reset the data?
wind spade
either you can reset the whole site (e.g. by opening in anonymous window, saving, loading the save in normal window and clicking "edit") or I can modify your save to remove just the consumption part
fierce ruin
Sufficient for one full production. With enough supply to have the last material production with one factory at 100% supplied ๐
and each material crafted at least once
wind spade
you don't need like 70% of the materials ๐
fierce ruin
Guess I'll just have to try out
wind spade
I mean, it's hard to tell
fierce ruin
Reverse-calculate all requirements per stock factories
wind spade
first, that map has no scale, so I have no idea how big that is
fierce ruin
The scale, we can fix... brb
wind spade
second, your build style may make stuff 2x larger or 2x smaller than others build style
third, "full production" is super vague definition
and if you want to calculate requirements, you can do that using some of the tools online
fierce ruin
I can't let the game show distance to a beacon, can I?
fierce ruin
Only view distance. also there are no pinned messages in here
anyway... one foundation is 8x8 meters square...
wind spade
doesn't seem like no pinned messages ๐ค
fierce ruin
The main platform is 124x124 platforms
Ah seems like it needed to load for some time
Or to give a visual...
Work in progress
wind spade
so yeah, as I said, it's hard to estimate how much space you will need
that's why it's usually better to build smaller dedicated factories, which you can always expand
vagrant kernel
What i did was i set up a main refinery area for each material, then piped that to one large area where all of my actual production was done
Lmao the no pipe emote
summer field
What are you talking about? There are no pipes.
fierce ruin
Is this overkill?
Im going to use trains to ship the crystal oscillators to places I need them (mainly computers)
summer field
There's no such thing as overkill.
fierce ruin
I'll just make a small prod site for now and then make this later maybe
For now everything I'm doing is temporary
Set up temp production sites, everything messy, but then stack up on items and then build everything neat and proper
glossy patrol
so ultimately screws are pretty much obsolete?
wind spade
yeah
glossy patrol
then all I need for that is the alt for quickwire computer
and I take you can unlock the alt as soon as you can make the object?
wind spade
alts are only limited by the tier you are currently in (with some exceptions)
for more info, refer to wiki (page Hard Drive)
glossy patrol
for example I have researched caterium ore
but not quickwire yet
can I still unlock the quirwire computer?
wind spade
not sure about that. We weren't able to figure that out yet. But usually you can
glossy patrol
does it also make iron rods more or less obsolete for production of materials?
wind spade
other than beacon production, yes
also I beleive belt poles require iron rods
and maybe a few other buildings
glossy patrol
with materials I meant computers motors and mod frames
wind spade
you don't need iron rods for any of those? except for mod frames
glossy patrol
nope, you have alt mod frames that use steel pipes
glossy patrol
looks like a no brainer to me
glossy patrol
the screw one right? 
wind spade
if you have crystal computer unlocked, I'd reroll
glossy patrol
I do not have the crystal computer
but I did find a pure quarts node just exploring
glossy patrol
oh and its not just 1 node, 2 nodes right next to each other
rigid knoll
caterium wire so hilariously bad of an idea
rich tusk
Why?
glossy patrol
becayse caterium already has its own wire, plus you have iron wire and iron isnt exactly a rare recourse
rigid knoll
I mean, it doesn't have to be inherently terrible, but the numbers on it right now just make it a joke - it's not less raw materials than baseline copper wire, and caterium is one of the rarer resources, certainly far rarer than copper
and it particularly looks silly given that the caterium alternate you're actually using is basically the exact opposite, using copper in quickwire
glossy patrol
woo!
rigid knoll
tbh I'd probably take the circuit board one first, unless you have quartz set up and don't have caterium
tawdry pebble
You want the circuit board receipe as well but computer is best choice of the 3 currently
glossy patrol
plus I havelike 4 more hard drives to analyse
rigid knoll
(until you've sent the final-for-now space elevator you don't have much use for cat besides computers, and the cat one is faster and less hassle)
tawdry pebble
RNG love it or hate it, i never did any rerolling hard drive scanning during my play through
fierce ruin
If you guys were making, let's say a eib factory, for example, would your "input" to the factory be iron ore, coal ore, and concrete, steel ingots and concrete, or steel pipes and concrete? Or anything else?
Personally my inputs would be iron ore and coal ore
tawdry pebble
There is no one answer to your question it all depends how you want you world to be, lots of smaller satelite factorys or 1 big factory
fierce ruin
@tawdry pebble I like satelite factores
tawdry pebble
Then you answered your own question. Me personally all of my 3 mid-large (not mega) factorys i brought in all raw materials and built towards end tier product.
fierce ruin
Wait so which should I do if I like satellite factories lol
tawdry pebble
Do all refining and pre processing at smaller out posts, one stop iron and coal to make steel ingots then belt to another to make pipes---another factory take limstone and make concrete then belt both to make EIB at 4th factory
tawdry pebble
rubber and regular copper wire FYI rubber is most effiecnet use of oil, 1 oil = 1 rubber
wind spade
@fierce ruin find coal and iron node and build eib factory there. Best way for satellite factories
(imho)
shy mason
the more iron, copper (for iron ingot recipe) and limestone near your coal nodes, the easier it is to make heavy modular frames in that factory there.
rich canyon
How does one put a negative exponent into a phone calculator?
empty hemlock
there should be a ^ or a x^y button
rich canyon
I couldn't find the answer on Google so this was the second best place.
rich canyon
I can't seem to find any ^ or x^y buttons on my phone calculator, even when i tilt it sideways.
wind spade
if you screenshot the whole thing maybe I can help more
wind spade
I mean
screenshot the calculator in your phone
lol ๐
that one is a photo btw ๐
rich canyon
How do i screenshot my phone's screen?
wind spade
usually power button + volume up /volume down button, held for a few seconds
empty hemlock
start and power button at the same time usually
wind spade
depends on your phone
rich canyon
rich canyon
Does that turn an exponent from a possative to a negative?
empty hemlock
it turns what ever you write into the exponent
wind spade
nope, that should write the ^ character and you'll write the exponent
just try it and you'll see lol
rich canyon
Thanks guys!
Who knew that a random videogame message board was more useful then google.
glossy patrol
so what is more efficient for power, crude oil or coal?
the coal is a normal node but the crude oil is 2 pures close together
I am working towards conveyor 5 and miner 3
correction, I have unlocked them
wind spade
every fuel type is 100% efficient
but if you substract the energy needed to produce that fuel, then coal is more efficient than fuel
this is a table from my SSS#5 blog post, it may contain the info you seek
glossy patrol
then I might aswell seek out uranium
glossy patrol
or try find a pure coal node, as coal does not produce waste like nuclear does
dim thicket
@glossy patrol
Oil produces far more power than coal, in terms of how many MJ you get per miner/pump.
However, oil wastes a higher percentage of that energy than coal does.
rigid knoll
the thing is that efficiency number is basically 100% irrelevant
what matters is how much material in makes to create the generators, how much hassle that setup is, and what resource it uses and how much you get from it
"how much you get from it" should be the "total power" column there, but the ratio of that to the supposed raw power is entirely irrelevant
glossy patrol
so earlier I did find a pure coal node
with a mk3 miner I can make it a pure coal power plant
summer field
Do it.
wind spade
@rigid knoll not really. The materials and time you put into building it are only one-time payment. But if you use less efficient resource, you'll have your production lowered all the time
basically, the table answers the question:
"If I have resources to make enough power from anything, what should I choose?"
rigid knoll
that particular percentage is completely meaningless, except that a low number makes your power graphs harder to read
coal could require a special miner that costs 450 MW, and the coal generator could provide 500 MW; the energy efficiency would be ~10%, but it would in fact be /better/ than the current setup where it's a few MW and 50
the "total power" number is the useful one, the percentage one is just "how much of your power graph is your factory vs your power supply"
glossy patrol
but said miner can fuel multiple generators which makes the 10% power loss even lower
rigid knoll
yeah, pretend the numbers are whatever it takes to be the same as it is now ๐
wind spade
yeah and I don't want to waste power just to get power
so I rather stick with coal and then upgrade to nuclear
rigid knoll
you should be
wind spade
I rather spend more time building my power setup, but then actually have 95% of the power generated available, rather than building a worse setup (fuel) and then only have 80% of the power available
empty hemlock
i mean, really depends entirely on how close you are to oil, how close you are to coal, how lazy you are and how much steel you want ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ
rigid knoll
yeah, the relevant reasons to pick oil vs coal are things like "I have tons of spare coal and no spare oil", and "oil requires HMFs and motors, and I'm still putting all those in the space elevator"
wind spade
sure, that's what I mentioned this:
basically, the table answers the question:
"If I have resources to make enough power from anything, what should I choose?"
rigid knoll
or "oil requires intermediate processing, meaning a bunch more effort than coal"
wind spade
ofc if I have one impure coal node and 10 pure oil nodes, I'll go with oil
rigid knoll
yes, and the most highlighted reason you give as a thing to think about is 90% meaningless
wind spade
but then it's useless to doubt if oil is more efficient than coal
if you are limited to one fuel type, then you shouldn't ask which power should you choose, because you don't have a choice.
In any other case, you can use the table to compare between your available power sources.
I don't see a reason why the table would be useless
rigid knoll
efficiency isn't a thing when there aren't multiple ways to use the same resource for power that you need to compare, and even then it's the net power numbers you computed that you'd want to use
the last column of the table is useless, the second to last column is the one you want
wind spade
not really.
if I need 2000 MW, I don't want to build oil, where I would need to build around 2500 MW, when I can build coal, where I would only need to build around 2100 MW
rigid knoll
10 oil barrels/min gives you 102 MW via fuel, or you can spend 10 coal/min for 43 MW; that's the tradeoff
and the fact that those are the numbers you should use rather than the in-game numbers on the coal/fuel generators is important
wind spade
but I'm not looking to answer the question "I have 10 items, which one is the best fuel". Because then the answer is obvious. I'm answering the question "I'm powering my whole base with one fuel type, which one is the best fuel"
rigid knoll
(or maybe actually you want a slightly different chart if that's 10 fuel/min rather than 10 oil/min)
the point is that if building 2500 MW is easier than building 2100 MW, because it requires half as much raw resources and thus half as much walking around the map, then maybe you /should/
rigid knoll
you aren't losing anything by paying 400 supposed MW into power production
the one-time payment or like fps cost or something is the /only/ thing that matters
outside of the opportunity cost of using this as ingredients for production
wind spade
I'm saving resources I can use otherwise
because I don't waste 1/5 of produced oil just to keep the oil/fuel/power production going
rigid knoll
if one oil barrel was worth the same as one coal, you are losing resources this way
wind spade
outside of the scope of that table, oil is also the most likely bottleneck in any bigger factory, so not using it for power makes sense
rigid knoll
yeah, that's totally valid, I'm just nitpicking as to why this metric isn't the relevant one
wind spade
it's relevant
if you care about not wasting resources
it's like using screws + plates recipe for reinforced plates instead of stitched iron plates alternate
you get the same result with both ways, but with the first one, you use more resources
rigid knoll
yes, but you're still using more resources on coal generators
wind spade
that's again irrelevant, since I'm caring about items per minute
not items in general
which you should as well
rigid knoll
I mean, ongoing resources/min via coal generators
rigid knoll
in order to produce 2 GW for your actual factory, you need ~460 coal/min, or ~320 oil barrels/min
wind spade
that ^^ is irrelevant metric
rigid knoll
and if we were pretending that oil is equivalent to coal (which I agree it's not), oil -> fuel -> power would be better, just because the baseline number is larger
that is the only relevant ongoing-cost metric
rigid knoll
I fail to see how you can possibly say it's better to use more resources to produce power, if those resources are equivalent
wind spade
but they aren't
rigid knoll
the fact that they aren't means that if coal is >~70% as valuable as oil you should build oil generators, and if it's less you should build coal
wind spade
there's 2.4 times more coal than oil on the map
rigid knoll
the fact that they agree that doesn't change that the relevant metric is 320 vs 460, not .81 vs .95
wind spade
you can't compare having X pieces of one fuel to having X pieces of another fuel
rigid knoll
(and you'd also need to decide what you're building, which is even more up in the air)
that's the whole point of your chart
wind spade
the only thing that my chart is for is the last column
the previous columns are just to show where I got the numbers from
rigid knoll
the last column is "how much of a lie is the power number on the generator"
wind spade
nope, you get exactly the number on your generator
rigid knoll
you "get" that much, but some of it is used up, and thus is effectively a lie
wind spade
not really. There are other ways to get the fuel resources
e.g. wood coal
also you can underclock the hell out of your production line and get way more "efficiency"
fierce ruin
is oil power worth it if i have all the tiers unlocked or should i just go straight to nuclear
or do a combo?
wind spade
if you have everything unlocked, then nuclear is way better than oil
fierce ruin
ok thx
i rushed all the tiers so im prolly gonna get a permanent aluminum setup and then rebuild with all new conveyors in a different spot to make a mall
fierce ruin
is 15h for rushing all tiers bad?
shy mason
not really, if you spend your time getting 1-2 machines for each item you can get that easily.
onyx plaza
Satisfactory is not a game that you rush, you play it for the fun of it
shy mason
I think it took me 10 hours to get to trains.
fierce ruin
@onyx plaza i rushed to get to the fun
onyx plaza
Well if you want a metric to go by, I've done all tiers unlocked in 6 hours, and i wasn't rushing, just being efficient
Im sure people have done sub 4 and probably less in party play
fierce ruin
@wind spade so for aluminum im doing it on the east side of the map. i should make a factory outputting alclad aluminum sheets and another one outputting heat sinks or should i go all the way to baterries, rcus, and turbo motors in that location?
or should i do it on the west where i have slightly less mats but oil as well?
but sulfur is far on the west
shy mason
have an output for alclad sheets, mainly as you'll be using it for mk5 belts, there's no other use except for turbo motors, so that can be the one output your factory needs. And I really haven't found a need for making batteries.
fierce ruin
but i want to have a storage of every item for an update
shy mason
fair enough.
wind spade
I usually don't chain factories
my factories have input ingots or ores and output final product that goes directly to storage
makes it easier to upgrade, you don't have to worry about upgrading the factories in the chain before as well
fierce ruin
im not chaining
oh wait
so the answer would be go all the way in that location then?
too hi/too low?
wind spade
I guess. But there's no wrong or right ๐
depends what you want to do with that ;]
I usually only produce a lot of the mk5 belt material (I think it's the alclad, but my memory just turned off for some reason)
fierce ruin
ye it is
do u usually go higher/lower than this? just for reference im not tryna copy ur world lol
wind spade
uh, no idea. Last I played was ages ago ๐
glacial hemlock
5 turbomotor is ambitious. However for the other products, it is a bit low
fierce ruin
K thx
glossy patrol
Inbefore there are official speedruns
tough stirrup
how many per minute of items should i have (for personal use)
pulsar stratus
Depend on the item ^^
tough stirrup
tier one stuff ( concrete, rod, plate, wire and cable)
empty hemlock
concrete you need basically infinite of, everything else is how much you need to feed your production
shy mason
I would be content with a storage container holding these amounts: 2x constructors of rods, 4x plates (belts, walls ), 2x cables (power and is often building requirement of assemblers / constructors), 1x wire (3x if you still need hub upgrades and space elevator building). and a full node of concrete made into an industrial size container (you need it mostly for building the large initial cost of foundations and walls).
cedar mica
I normally go 1x storage bins of rods, wire and cable, then 2x of plates and 4x of concrete, for the first setup. Then upgrade as needed
rigid knoll
as you go up in tiers you'll need way less plates and rods than you initially do
cedar mica
Depends on how you build
shy mason
i still use plates like no other for belt layouts, then replace them with appropriate speed belts after I'm done with the mega builds.
rigid knoll
eh, T3 belts are cheap pretty much as soon as you get them, I just switch over entirely so that I can save hotbar space
wind spade
T5 belts are actually the cheapest
shy mason
you need iron plates for splitters / mergers and walls anyway, so it's just simpler for me to grab a thousand iron plates.
rigid knoll
what are these "walls" you speak of ๐
(without them you don't need all that many iron plates)
shy mason
mainly place holders for the vertical lifts so i can go from higher floors down to where i need it.
and i use about a hundred mergers/splitters per floor all the time, no clue how many you use.
fierce ruin
@wind spade the irony
It kind of doesn't make sense that a t2 good (smelting and then assembling is 2 steps) is the best belt in the game
glacial hemlock
Based on your logic, steel beam (belt mk3) is a T1 goods?
No metal based products in the game is usable within 1 process step.
vagrant nimbus
hey i was wondering if anyone had a complete list of every resourced needed to progress to the space elevator, just thought this might save me some time lol
eager moth
Do you mean the completed products you have to enter or the base resources required to make them? If it's the first there's a list on the wiki
sand garnet
https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Space_Elevator @vagrant nimbus
glacial hemlock
If it is the second, then just use greeny's calculator!
vagrant nimbus
Cheers brothers
Also just found out you can get lizard doggos as "pets" best patch 10/10
sand garnet
lol that's been in the game since launch :p
vagrant nimbus
I just thought they were quirky things to go oh hey that's funny at
AH
He just bought my flowers, my lil boy, wrong chat but my final message, save da world โค๏ธ gn
fierce ruin
@glacial hemlock it's t2 bc it's smelt then construct
Alcad aluminum sheet is smelt then assemble
So they're the same "tier" good
shy mason
just alot harder to get the raw resources for, then transport into the same spot to smelt together. even aluminum will need silica which is another construct / assemble step, so aluminum sheets are going to be t3 then by that logic.
shy mason
guess coal is the only t0 product for anything useful straight from the ground.
only thing i can think of that would be an end product with 1 step is biomass and color cartridges, wait forgot about concrete.
void pendant
Hello. Im using Renewable power mod - but when placing multiple wind farms they produce less and less power
what is the needed distance that they provide full power?
summer field
No clue, we can't help you with mods, that's what the modding discord server is for.
void pendant
where to find it?
sand garnet
did... did you ask there?
fierce ruin
Man there's a lot required for 12 base frames a minute
wind spade
hm, with alternate recipes it's just 60 iron, 60 copper and 24 coal per minute
for 12 modular frames / min
glacial hemlock
What turing?
valid cradle
You have and Gatter
And I have a idea for a transistor
That would be enough
The problem ist that every Produktion ist always forward
So you canโt use the same and Gatter every time
It is really limited as Long as you canโt stay on the same lvl of product
sand garnet
id love to see those
glacial hemlock
You all are obsessed to make computer inside a game
glossy knoll
Back to some math! I've been building endlessly lately
It's late. I struggle when its late.
I have 96 assemblers in groups of 8. I need to work out the smelting grouping
wait I think I've found my problem
yeaaaaa.... it's really late
valid cradle
I did it
I build a Or gate, and Gate and Not gate
satisfactory is functional complete
wind spade
don't tell, show
valid cradle
i cant send pictures in this room
wind spade
you can
valid cradle
realy?
wind spade
literally 10 messages above a guy sent a picture 
eager spindle
now build a redstone computer
wind spade
lizard doggo computer
rigid knoll
I don't think any of those gates work composeably, so they don't really count
rose steeple
Look at what i found lurking in SF source code ๐
wind spade
how do you have access to SF source?
rose steeple
it is located in the folder SatisfactoryEarlyAccess\CommunityResources inside of the Headers.zip file
wind spade
not really. Header files are like 0 code
rose steeple
there is some code in the header files
wind spade
like what
rose steeple
Like this
empty hemlock
check the pins, there is a couple of them listed
spice dock
k thx
wind spade
only a few ๐ค
barren elm
How are people feeling about the announced rebalancing?
I guess it's necessary, given copper and screws are completely pointless in the current version
Some weird outliers like level 2 belts effectively being more expensive than level 3 belts too
rigid knoll
I think it's kinda interesting for screws, but yeah, the mk2 belts thing is silly
cedar mica
I think its more to fix some of the issues they made, as they put in tiers. Like belt cost and such
or the stupid 132 screws for rotors
120 works, 135 works, 132, not so much
empty hemlock
i hope they also change the space elevator/Tier progression a bit, atm it's a bit meh and disconnected and something more similar to factorios science vials would be better where you need to build upon your factory to produce additional products instead of completely new ones to progress
there is 6 belt inputs into the spelevator afterall :P
cedar mica
Yeah, tiers should be more expensive after the first one. Being on biofuel for an extended time, will kill a lot of peoples drive
If you know what you are doing, so will you have coal setup within 3-6 hours, atm
empty hemlock
biofuel i find to be completely fine currently. i tend to just setup 8 to 12 biogens on a foundation platform and have 3 constructors setup, 2 to turn leafs and wood into biomass and 1 to in turn convert that into biofuel, so i just need to swing by every 15 to 30 minutes to refill the gens before i switch to coal
barren elm
You can quite happily get coal in about an hour
Personally that's how I start my games, build hub, build elevator, unlock tier 3/4, grab coal, then the game actually starts
Can't be dealing with biomass
wind spade
I start with drive hunting ๐ค
barren elm
Yeah I usually grab a hard drive to research while unlocking all the junk
Then grab 2 more afterwards since I think alt steel + iron wire + stitched iron plating are things that can't really be delayed until later
But coal first
It is a little funny how much you get from wrecks though, I bet you could just craft iron plates/wire/rods and get everything else from wrecks for tier 3/4
I don't go drive hunting until I've got blade runners, which unfortunately requires a completed hub and tier 3
empty hemlock
Powerslug > first harddrive
barren elm
I don't really think slugs have much of a point before you get level 4 belts
empty hemlock
for underclocking, not for overclocking
barren elm
You get nothing at level 1 belts, nothing at level 2, and 13% more at level 3 belts
wind spade
well usually when you go drive hunting you find at least one slug on your path
empty hemlock
being able to underclock all your machines to your needs allows you much, much easier power management while you are still on biofuel
barren elm
I think there's some debate on whether you even need machines to get out of the biofuel stage optimally
It's certainly pretty easy and very fast to just handcraft it all with a phone resting on your space bar at least
wind spade
instead of afking with smth on spacebar, I rather let machines craft stuff and go drive/slug hunting
wind spade
huh
barren elm
Yeah you brought up some speedrunner who got a space elevator up by 40min
wind spade
that's for a speedrun context lol
I was just saying that for reaching certain stage in the fastest way, handcrafting is the way to go.
But I assume that you want to play the save for longer, not just getting to space elevator or rushing stuff
barren elm
Yeah but you used that as justification for not building machines during the biomass phase, since at the time I was advocating at least building smelters since ore takes twice as long to craft as basic materials
wind spade
again, that was just in the context of speedrunning
barren elm
Though currently I just find the biomass phase unfun so, whatever gets it gone most efficiently
wind spade
not in the context of normal game
in a speedrun, you don't care about having slugs or drives
but in a normal game, those are essential for efficient factories
flat loom
Never thought people would speedrun this game
patent bough
only speedrun category i know of is first space elevator unlock
glossy patrol
which alternate recipes should I consider using for mass fabrication?
glossy patrol
or better question, which alts not to use?
stuck stratus
alt plastic is a flat waste, just about every other alt has some niche application, depending on your factory's location/inputs
stuck stratus
do whatever you want then? it's your factory
glossy patrol
fair enough
patent bough
Use greeny calculator alt recipe analyzer to compare
I'm currently wondering how extensive upcoming balance changes next year will be and how much modification will be required to retrofit a factory....
Proportions change - no big deal. Locations/types of nodes change: mildly to moderately annoying to reroute input. Ingredient changes on recipes: potentially very annoying.
glacial hemlock
Ingredient ratio changes: Interesting outcome, and i am looking forward to it!
glossy patrol
its difficult to tell...
empty hemlock
just randomize every recipe every patch so there is lots of variety ๐
wind spade
randomize every recipe every time you load a new game
glossy patrol
so no real optimum huh...
glossy patrol
im just trying to think what recipes to use really...
empty hemlock
basically almost everyting except rubber and anything that uses screws ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ
fierce ruin
And probably avoid steel beams as well
Ooh, they said some changes are going to break factories. I bet they are rebalancing ralt recipes!
barren elm
You do need steel beams now for trains
Though a single constructor really is enough for an entire game's worth of steel beams
fierce ruin
Exactly.
solemn wolf
So....2 pure and 2 normal Oil nodes can run...how many refineries ?๐ค
fierce ruin
At mk 3 miner?
solemn wolf
Sure....(they have Mk2 at present) but I can upgrade
tawdry pebble
depends on OC and what refinery recepie you choose
tawdry pebble
12 to 24 oil refiners you can run with no power shards 12 for fuel or 24 for rubber/plastic. 240 oil/min on pures and 120/min on normal
fierce ruin
oh, pure is double?
tawdry pebble
if im not mistaken the 3 teirs are 60-120-240 with mrk 2miner/oil pump
shy mason
yeah pure is 2x normal and normal is 2x impure amounts, same for all nodes
solemn wolf
Oh boy !.... was my math off lol. I set down 8 refineries haha. No wonder they were always backed up !! I can see Im gonna have to put down some more foundations.
sand garnet
I really hope theyre gonna add more inbetween steps
fierce ruin
But no mk 2 or mk 3 oil pumps
Since oil is such a limiting factor for megafactories, I am betting they will add those in before update 3. Maybe.
sand garnet
Jace said 'no tier 8' in update 3, right? which, if true, kinda means that those things are not gonna happen
summer field
Maybe I need to watch it again, but I recall him saying that Update 3 would be tier 8, and dedicated servers will come once they're ready, which will possibly be before Update 3.
sand garnet
from how I understood it he said something along the lines of 'content, but no tier 8'
barren elm
No tier 8 in update 3
QoL updates, rebalance, features that they'll announce later
Sounded like significant features at least, maybe a use for mercer spheres etc
shy mason
wonder what portions will break that he mentioned. can see it being ratios at least. if more steps are added it'll be difficult.
would be a fun challenge at lesat
summer field
Ratios would be plenty to break stuff. Dunno if they would also change mats in recipes.
shy mason
would be a very different game if they made nodes "finite"
summer field
I doubt that would be viable, in a finite world
shy mason
would solve the need of a resource sink for people factories, but would make the resource collection another problem.
barren elm
I think finite nodes defeats the "relaxing" purpose of satisfactory
sand garnet
finite nodes in a world that doesnt procedurally generate doesnt sound like a great gameplay mechanic
barren elm
I rather hope tier 8 has some kind of infinitely repeatable feature
cedar mica
Only way finite nodes works, are if we can call in meteors or something like that, to give us new once
Still, only thing that would change, is the need to replace the miners, every now and then
sand garnet
Id likerepeatable features but I hink we'd need an adjustmenet for the space elevator for that
barren elm
Yeah it does feel a bit silly that it has inputs, yet there's never a need for them
sand garnet
I used them for tier 7 unlock
barren elm
It takes literal seconds to transfer those by hand, less time than it'd even take to build the belt
cedar mica
If you have it all ready to go, yes. If you are just finish making the machines, you might as well belt it it, if its nearby
analog tusk
https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/calculator?preview=9J755Sxiel
anyone ever think about actually doing this
its 169 turbo motors per min
coarse path
That would be a great accomplishment, why would you want to do that?
analog tusk
https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/calculator?preview=aeFvqeOzSe
actually i had to change it down to 166/min and added 6 nuclear fuel rods
because i can
this would be one giant logistical nightmare
coarse path
Just getting the raw materials in one place would be quite an achievement.
barren elm
I sure hope as part of the QoL update that they scrap the whole "Here's 3 alt recipes, pick one" system, and just let us pick which alt recipe we want directly
Then again I have a feeling the rebalance may well change alt recipes to be just as efficient but using different materials, since that seems like it'd make the most sense
glossy patrol
So i better wait with mass production huh...
sand garnet
I think smelters won't change
so you can definitely set those up already
quantities required may change, but that just means you may need to add/ remove some smelters from the manifolds
wind spade
next update: removed smelters
sand garnet
removed all belts, added pipes for everything instead
wind spade
removed engineer. Now the machines must do all the stuff themselves
sand garnet
just remove handcrafting entirely. problem solved!
fierce ruin
Do you guys make tons of items per minute of everything? If so, why?
The game kind of seems pointless after you make a little bit of each item
wind spade
usually just to fulfill goals the person set for themselves
it's like factorio, the game is "pointless" after you launch a rocket, but a lot of players carry on just because they want to reach some goal
barren elm
So there's effectively 2 ways of playing, one is to follow the milestones, and another is to sandbox it with your own goals
Milestones have an end, but your own goals are whatever you want them to be
But yeah, some factorio style repeatable tech would be nice
shy mason
I make it so that I use every resource available in a region to make a given project. Got the plastics/rubber and motors done for my 30 turbo motors/min factory in the blue crater.
fierce ruin
@shy mason is that the se of the map?
shy mason
yep, got enough coal and oil there for most things and building ontop of the water so there's plenty of space.
patent bough
My goal is to hฬคฬฬนaฬบฬrฬฌฬฑvออeออฬฎsอฬฒฬซtอฬนฬญ
analog tusk
i make 14 turbo motors/min
glacial hemlock
30 tb/min? Blue crater doesn't has enough space
glacial hemlock
that's quite small
shy mason
I'm currently using three floors now for the motors, have the steel for motors, stators, and plastic/rubber refinery done now and have this much taken up. Will likely build the heatsinks and quickwire refinery higher up the hills close to the copper node where trains with quartz and bauxite are coming in.
glacial hemlock
i personally felt that the fungus are annoying to the base building. Unless you starts up high.
shy mason
base level is on the water's surface, so plenty of space. Just taking up all the concrete.
analog tusk
I'll post a picture of the facility once it's complete
Should have it done by tomorrow
sharp crow
okay so
it seems to me that as you add more and more radiation in the same place, the min radiation radius approaches some value. meaning that if there was some sort of infinite storage device, the entire map would not be covered in radiation as it fills up. is this true? or am i doing the math wrong?
cuz if it works like a square root function then any finite area would eventually be completely covered
but if it works like a logarithm function then the map wouldn't be completely covered the some finite areas would not ever be completely covered
and those two look pretty similar when you can't see the whole thing at once
sharp crow
so it doesn't approach some value? it just keeps growing slowly? huh...
sand garnet
im pretty sure it does, you could check the online calculator greeny made that helps answer this question
check the radiation tool there
sharp crow
yeah, i already have that formula, i'm trying to find a sort of inverse
oop okay i got it
yeah the radiation radius expands indefinitely but at some point it becomes so lows that its basically not moving
sand garnet
yea, it does move, just basically to a point where you can disregard it
sharp crow
so a sort of "neutral ground" between the current system and having an actual way to get rid of waste would be, like, an infinite-capacity storage container that only holds nuclear waste. so there's still the problem of a massive radiation radius and the fact that it is technically expanding, but there's no need to build more and more storages, and once the radius gets big enough it's basically not moving.
sand garnet
I think we just need a sort of recycling plant to use the waste and convert it to a harmless state or use the product in another machine
sharp crow
idk, that just feels sorta like cheating the system. like, nuclear produces a huge amount of power, so it seems almost "fair" that the waste should be impossible to get rid of.
but it seems unfair that you would have to keep building new storages at a linear rate
ooh! the ""infinite storage"" thing could be a fuel pool!!!
they have those at reactors!
its a pool full of water, to insulate the radiation, that they fill up with depleted rods
perhaps there could be, like, a post-calculation reduction in radiation for things in the pool? idk that seems too good tho
maybe im just hallucinating tho
this can probably be done with a ton of industrial storage floating way above the map lol
flat loom
or under
sharp crow
okay so i made this thing
it's not as good as the actual map one where you upload your save but its kinda cool
it shows radiation (in 2d only)
using desmos
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/hjw2ma3ww5
wind spade
the issue with that is that 1 nuclear waste may emit 20 radiation, but two waste doesn't emit 40 radiation
well, they do, but it doesn't increase the size 2x
sharp crow
two waste do emit 40 radiation, and trust me it doesn't increase the size 2x
well, at first it sorta does, but once you've got a lot of waste doubling the waste amount won't even come close to doubling the radius
rich tusk
No. It doesnโt.
It grows exponentially when you start storing the waste. This have been confirmed multiple times over already.
sharp crow
the radiation grows exponentially (until it's limit) but the radius doesn't
empty hemlock
logarithmically, not exponentially
wind spade
^
empty hemlock
10 times as much doubles radius
wind spade
as a rough estimation, yeah
sharp crow
here's the graph of the minimum radius, which is kinda useful cuz you can pretty much model a cluster of storages as one big storage, so you can approximate how big you want the radius to get.
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/84zvkgke2f
wind spade
have you played around with my tool btw? https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/radiation
it basically calculates that
sharp crow
that's the one that shows the radiation as you get closer, and mine is like a switched around version of that
cold isle
who's at school now
wind spade
Not me, also probably #off-topic-general
cedar mica
Whats the most steel you can make with 1 impure, mk2 miner?
wind spade
0, you also need coal ๐ค
cedar mica
I meant 1 impure coal
cedar mica
The challenge is to use impure first, so have plenty of iron, but only 1 impure coal on the map
also 1 impure sulfur
shy mason
can also throw in power shards to 2.5x that if you have belts that can keep up.
lime scarab
2x2x2 is 8 quick maths
sharp crow
are there any maps that show the out of bounds border?
dusk widget
I am up to the point where I can nearly automate computers and there is so much stuff to figure out now. My factory is spread out all over the place. How do people make theirs so neat?
sharp crow
speaking of computers, is satisfactory turing-complete?
wind spade
hm, idk
sharp crow
im thinking like
splitters and mergers, mostly
idk if programmable splitters could be used effectively
perhaps involving all 64 of their slots, and some of those machines that craft stuff to change what type?
i tried thinking about it in terms of bits and i think it drove me insane so i stopped
but it's possible to build any sort of logic gate out of NOT gates and (non-exclusive) OR gates
if one is item and zero is no item then non-exclusive or gates are just mergers
but idk how to make a not gate or an XOR gate
rigid knoll
hmm, can you do prioritization with smart splitters? the wiki article isn't 100% clear how it works and I haven't used them
(ie, output to left if possible, but if it's blocked go center)
summer field
They're Smart splitters, because they make you do all the work for them.
rigid knoll
so having two outputs on the same item is useless?
weary ravine
It'll split the item between the two like a normal splitter (IIRC)
rigid knoll
if it does that and the description in the wiki is accurate (ie, it always checks each output in a specific order) you could hack up priority by adding a loop of a different material
and given priority (and infinite containers, of course) I think you can build NOT
and OR is just a merger
barren elm
How do people make theirs so neat?
Well you get a feel for exactly how much you need to accomplish your goals, and that makes it far easier to build pretty layouts because you're not planning around future expansions
cloud lichen
Say, just a quick question. Enriched steel ingot Vs alt steel ingot?
tawdry pebble
I prefeer alt steel ingot granted not the best but sulfur is a bit harder to come by.
patent bough
compacted coal is not worth it for anything last i checked.
alt steel ingot is objectively the best steel recipe
rigid knoll
I think at least "I have no other use for sulfur, and it's closer than the next coal node"
which at least isn't implausible given how little you need sulfur for anything other than personal use
patent bough
except...you need coal AND sulfur for compacted coal, and overall more resources total.
anyhow sulfur is part of alt uranium which greatly increases your maximum power capacity by stretching out uranium much further.
rigid knoll
yeah, it's less efficient than just another coal/iron node, but if you have no other use it's better than just not using it
cedar mica
Compact coal can stretch your steel, with the right recipe
barren elm
Is uranium even worth factoring in? Like strictly speaking uranium plants seem more of a meme building than anything
patent bough
Fuel rods with alt recipes are the most efficient power source.
cedar mica
You need a lot of oil, for end game stuff, so you want the nuclear power, if you build big
barren elm
Efficient in what way? Logistically they're less efficient than coal, setup cost they're less efficient, and the obvious downside of the byproduct
patent bough
efficient as in production cost as a percentage of maximum power capacity
coal is #2.
also the byproduct is minimal and there's ridiculous amounts of space in the world to store waste.
barren elm
True but it's absolutely a downside
rigid knoll
@patent bough that number is a completely irrelevant one
patent bough
how so - if you're spending power to make fuel you're not getting that energy that goes into fuel production
rigid knoll
it's still the most efficient by ~any real metric other than maybe "how much effort it takes"
(and "runs out of space eventually, and thus requires a tiny amount of ongoing effort")
spending power to make fuel means you should count the total power produced as less, correct
cedar mica
100,000 Industrail storage containers, full of nuclear waste, only sends radiation 100 foundation. So its a long time before it becomes an issue, if you stuff it in a corner of the map
rigid knoll
but spending 10GW to produce 15GW from a single node of coal would still be better than actual current coal spending 12MW to produce 100 MW or whatever
barren elm
Honestly I hope they revisit power in this rebalance, because at no point regardless of factory size have I ever seen a reason to not use coal
rigid knoll
the metric that matters is power produced per raw items per minute
which with the actual recipes and generators in game is always a little bit up in the air because you're comparing coal vs oil vs "a whole bunch of stuff including uranium"
patent bough
...Unless you want to use those materials for something else. Uranium has no use except power. Coal has lots of other uses.
rigid knoll
and oil is rarer than coal
cedar mica
13-14GW to produce 28 fuel rods, which is max amount from 1 mk3 miner, with alt recipes. Thats enough to power 140 nuclear reactors, for 350GW of power
barren elm
Pretty sure the engine will break before you utilize every bit of coal in the entire map
And by "utilze" I mean actually put the power to use, not just build 800 generators
rigid knoll
yeah, with the numbers that exist in game nuclear is the best unless you absolutely need absolutely all the caterium or oil or whatever for the rest of your factory, and are somehow otherwise powering it on coal or something
cedar mica
All the coal on the map, would be 128,25GW worth of power
rigid knoll
if you pretend all the resources are equal (which they obviously aren't), it's something like 10x as much power per item mined as coal or something
and I forget if that's the alt recipes or not, which together are around 1.7x as much, for the cost of including crystal and sulfur
(and this is including the cost of mining coal vs the cost of mining all that plus constructors, though you could play silly games like "make 100x the constructors running at 1%, which costs like 10% of the power or something")
cedar mica
Lets not forget that the trains are very power hungry also
patent bough
https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/calculator?preview=sUz1HyjFPB 100GW (8 rods/min) with decent mix of alt recipes selected, for reference
rigid knoll
I'm assuming zero power on transport there, but it's not going to change the numbers a ton
cedar mica
120MW per locomotive, 50MW per station and 50MW when a wagon unloads/loads
patent bough
trains are worth the convenience for long trips, especially since you can hop into one that's still on autopilot now.
tawdry pebble
Yes trains are power hungry but by that point of end game power should not be a problem weather fuel or nuclear
rigid knoll
yeah, adding even 1GW on transport moves it from ~97 GW to ~96 GW for ~2000 items/min
aka "no difference"
cedar mica
Each wagon holds 32 slots, so a 2 minute round trip, is 16 slots a minute
20 stations alone, is 1GW
8.3 locomotives is 1GW
20 wagons loading, is 1GW
And so on
shy mason
I've only hit 6GW max, all my factories get backed up product wise and shut down as I'm building the next product. Pretty sure i would hit 20GW if there was a sink for final products.
cedar mica
If you want to see your real power draw, just trip the power and all machines will draw full power, during the reset
The after a few sec, idle machines will power down
wind spade
@barren elm yeah, waste is a downside, but all the advantages of nuclear power just outweight that
glossy knoll
Coal king ๐ ๐
analog tusk
turbofuel for life
glossy knoll
@analog tusk how much power?
sand garnet
The correct answer is: "never enough"
wind spade
Nuclear > coal > compacted coal > turbofuel > fuel
sand garnet
Biomass?
wind spade
well, talking about automated power ๐
barren elm
Never tried but can you put biomass in a fuel power plant?
Also yeah fuel plants could really do with being buffed up to 250mw
glossy knoll
1206 strong
barren elm
Out of shear curioustiy why build them all in one place, instead of building them near the coal nodes that are supplying them?
Or is it just roleplay value?
wind spade
then he couldn't share such a magnificent creation ๐
fluid ether
looking at this picture makes my pc fearsweat.
rigid knoll
technically compacted coal gives you a tiny bit more power per node than regular coal, if sulfur==coal, but it's small and totally not worth the effort
and turbofuel vs fuel trades over half the oil for less coal+sulfur, and generally costs less power to produce as well, but it's still spending significant amounts of oil on power, which is generally worse than spending coal on it
glossy knoll
@barren elm I almost did power nodes like that but I didn't want them to be floating in the sky, so I'm floating them in the void!
@rigid knoll yes but to produce compacted coal you need to spend power, in addition you are dealing with double the raw resources.. and sulfur is very spread out, not worth it imo
rigid knoll
@glossy knoll you get more power than you spent, so it's worth it on a strict numbers perspective, but yeah, it's too much hassle shipping the resources around for like a 10% boost
if you were dead set on an oil-powered factory for some reason, it's more worth it for fuel->turbofuel, but that's even more shipping resources, and oil is more valuable than coal or sulfur
glossy knoll
@rigid knoll how? if I go to generate the same amount of power I am in coal (60300MW) is takes 13400 Coal
The same amount with Compacted coal uses 6030/min which is 6030 Coal + 6030 Sulfur and uses 5025MW of power to produce compacted coal
thats the simple way of calculating it, not very accurate
ehhh you have merit, if you punch in 6532.5 compacted coal it will generate 60300 + 5025MW for not much more ore but yes a giant pain in the ass
fierce ruin
Expansion Stage Complete
analog tusk
@glossy knoll 7GW
210 turbofuel/min
also just looking at resource output of the world, by far your biggest limiting factor is oil
i would say just go nuclear if youre using like 10+GW
well 13+GW*
geothermal accounts for 3.4 GW of that 13
glossy knoll
@analog tusk in my case I couldn't use any oil except for supercomputers
analog tusk
yeah
any most oil is used for rubber for rubber circuit boards
this new facility i just built has 47 oil refineries, 25 of which are for rubber
rouchly 60% of the rubber is used for just making circuit boards
glossy knoll
yeah refineries take a lot of room, especially 326x Oil Refineries ๐
minor wing
Just want to clarify something. Pure Iron Node MK.2 Miner 240 ore a min MK3 Conveyor that would be 8 smelters right?
rigid knoll
@glossy knoll first, it doesn't take 5k, it takes 3k plus mining, and if you include mining on compacted you need to include it on coal as well (which you probably should)
and yeah, you need to increase the amount you generate a bit for each if you want all of the 60.3GW available for the actual-factory
but taking that into account, compacted coal is still like ~~10%~~5% better or something, for extra hassle of shipping things around and hooking up a bunch of assemblers, and for 60 GW the ~6k it needs is probably more than the sulfur that exists on the map
wind spade
see
rigid knoll
(it's (60300-558.0)/13400 = 4.45 MW per item for coal and (60300-3517.0)/(6030*2)=4.7 for compacted, using mk1 miners on pure nodes; less efficient miners/nodes make compacted tiny bits better)
minor wing
I just want to make sure I am not missing something with the Splitters and conveyer speeds. The MK3 belt down the middle is to ensure you get the max 240 a minute from the miner to smelters. The MK1 belt at each splitter is to make sure each smelter only gets it's max of 30 a min. So 8 Smelters. I am not missing how the splitters and belts work right?
rigid knoll
@minor wing the mk1 belts would just be because they're cheaper
wind spade
my table assumes 250% overclocked mk3 miner on a normal node, with 100% non-overclocked rest of machines
minor wing
@rigid knoll so the slower belt from a splitter won't change how much gets split?\
wind spade
@minor wing you can build everything from mk3 belts and it will still work ๐
rigid knoll
it will, but MK1 belts are 60, so you'll still wind up filling up the smelter inventories and then being limited by the 30 items/min the smelter can handle
you /could/ do some shenanigans to avoid filling up those inventories by doing mk3 -> splitter -> mk1 -> splitter -> 2x smelters, but I would not recommend going to that sort of effort
glossy knoll
^
wind spade
that would probably not work as intended anyway due to splitter magic
minor wing
So in some cases the extra effort isn't worth it just 8 smelters to 1 pure node
wind spade
well, maybe with the new update and splitters having internal storage it works differently, but still, there's no need for exact splitting in this game
glossy knoll
whats the need for exact splitting in factorio?
rigid knoll
yeah, just slap down 8 smelters with a daisy chain of splitters
glossy knoll
I assume thats where you need it
rigid knoll
there isn't any need in factorio either
wind spade
not really
glossy knoll
ah ok
wind spade
usually people just use exact splitting with the word "balancers", which are quite useful in factorio (but useless in satisfactory)
because 1->8 exact split is a "1 to 8 balancer"
rigid knoll
re power, using 250% mk3 on a normal node makes 4.53 vs 4.28, ie now closer to 6% better for compacted, ie still not remotely worth the effort, but technically better if effort and transport are free
minor wing
Just grabbed this game so making sure I have my head wrapped around some of the basics as I am about to blow up my factory and start making it look better and more efficient
wind spade
I'd say on your first playthrough you should just have fun and learn the game as you progress. Making perfect base from the begining is hard even if you put a lot of effort in planning
minor wing
I have been learning the game and the higher phases now everything is a mess and I just need to "fix it"
rigid knoll
the main difference here vs factorio is that belts are relatively speaking really slow, so you're less likely to have one or two belts and need to split it to 5 different tasks that you want to run roughly equally
wind spade
imo like 95% of people that plan from the begining just scrap their base later anyway (either because they messed up or because they got a better idea). And if someone tells me that they have the perfect base planned from begining, I usually find mistakes in their builds anyway
minor wing
Oh yea I am in the blow it up process lol
wind spade
@rigid knoll that as well, but I'd say even more important difference is that in Factorio, resources run out, so there's no guarantee of even input, so it makes sense to balance the inputs
@minor wing I'd suggest either building a new base somewhere else (just a few meters away works as well) or moving hub to a new location or restarting. Don't remove everything just to build from scratch, you'll most likely find yourself without resources and without base that can produce the resources ๐
minor wing
Yea I am moving it over a bit and going to slowly scrap it as I build back up
wind spade
cool ๐ also, if you haven't already, I'd suggest looking for some hdds to get some nice alternate recipes to boost your production a lot
minor wing
no clue what a hdds is
summer field
Harddrives?
fierce ruin
@wind spade do u know where the slug is there?
wind spade
@minor wing you can find drop pods all over the map, which can give you hard drives. Then you can scan them in MAM to get a choice from several alternate recipes
they usually improve the raw resources : final product ratio
wind spade
some combinations can do up to 80% savings of raw materials
for example for heavy modular frames
so you can essentially make 5 times more HMFs with the same resources
minor wing
Interesting I will need to go explore a bit
fierce ruin
nvm i remember now
glossy knoll
Its a great game, I'm up to almost 700 hours i think
wind spade
@fierce ruin sorry, no clue
my knowledge is mostly theoretical ๐
with a whooping 30 hours of total SF playtime
fierce ruin
gotta get a doggo farm
vestal turret
I think you can add your coding time for the calculator too haha ๐
wind spade
then we are at ~600 hours imo
fierce ruin
could u imagine greeny + some dude with nutty in game hours mp?
glossy knoll
Matrix.
wind spade
with my ocd he would quit in first 20 mins
fierce ruin
im real bad
my power lines have to be straight
not just the poles
but the lines too
wind spade
I've once rebuilt a friend's setup just because it wasn't looking the same as my setup on the other end of the factory
most of the crazy stuff I do applies to our Factorio playthroughs tho. I'm not sure how is he able to still play with me lol
fierce ruin
today i was on the verge of moving this bc it was one tile off center from whats below it. but i decided not too bc itll be gone eventually
every machine
one tile
thank god i didnt do it
wind spade
U N A C C E P T A B L E
minor wing
I could take a picture of my first base and send you all into a spiral of depression
barren elm
Seal it off so you never have to see it again and pretend the products are appearing magically
Not that it really matters in the end, but why power pole mk1s? Mk2s are so easy to unlock, and having 3 extra connections makes a massive difference since 1-2 are taken up by connections to other power poles
fierce ruin
noob to ratios with splitters here, i'm trying to evenly get coal from two splitters to four foundries and i'm having trouble
barren elm
Just build a line if splitters, assuming you have mk2 or above belts
fierce ruin
yes i have mk2 so one splitter to one foundry?
barren elm
Yep, in a line, like the above screenshot
It'll behave just as good as any balancer does, take up less space, but takes 30 or so seconds to fill up during the initial run
fierce ruin
ah thank you i've never understood the ratios
rigid knoll
@barren elm I only ever use mk1s because that's what the power line one autobuilds
(watch there be something simple like shift click while on any power pole to build power lines)
shy mason
Why did Raging beaver call me out? I don't have too many hours in this game... yet.... probably only 300.
dusk widget
I think I will screenshot my existing base and see how you all feel about it
sharp crow
the only reason i stay sane is knowing that im going to dismantle my base soon
if someone said "make a base and stick with it for 3 weeks" i would spend more than the three weeks just planning and stuff lol
shy mason
I'm joking with your comment "could u imagine greeny + some dude with nutty in game hours mp?" and using a specific adjective made me think you refering to me for a sec.
fierce ruin
i thought u were serious for a sec
wind spade
Lol
fierce ruin
is alt concrete worth?
shy mason
if you have quartz/silica nearby, it saves you on number of machines.
not really worth it to bring them together unless you have HMF production and maxed out your limestone useage already, the two qtz nodes in the spider cave come to mind.
glad cradle
How do you merge 8 into 6
rancid lark
depends a lot on how full the 8 incoming are and what belts you have available to use
but in general take 6 of the 8 incoming into 6 mergers. then split the remaining incoming 2 into 6 (2 splitters) and merge each of those into the first 6 mergers
wind spade
if possible, just merge into one and then 6 splitters
glacial hemlock
If you are limited by your technology, or throughput, just build 8 and 8 machines then, you won't have to worry about spliting! Since both numbers are so close
wind spade
yeah, exactly. There's no need for balancing in this game
just underclock the 8 machines to 75% or merge all into one and then split into 6
glacial hemlock
The best application would be screw-beginners-RIP, where i usually set up 1-1-1 for plate-rod-screw then combine it into a reinforced iron plate. Pretty neat imo
merry quartz
Is there released data for the speeds of constructor, assembler and manufacturer mk2? (I know the supposed speeds for smelter and foundry mk2 for when they release.) Just saying 'cause I want to future proof.
sand garnet
nope
wind spade
there is no data and also we are not sure if those will even exist
nothing has been confirmed yet
sand garnet
and even if they did exist, they just announced they're doing an entire re-balancing patch in january
so all our current data will be obsolete anyway
barren elm
All games have unused assets in the code, it's not worth planning around
With that said, I think there's strong evidence that either sommersloop or mercer spheres will be used for mk2 versions of things
Probably sommersloops since mercer spheres apparently have some teleportation mechanic attached, but again, none of it is released so it's all guesswork
With that said, I really can't see what mk2 versions of things could do that power shards don't already do
wind spade
to be useful, mk2 should have one of these:
- lower power consumption than equivalent amount of mk1s
- recipes only locked to mk2s, that can't be crafted in mk1s
- some other bonus like production (factorio-like)
cedar mica
Its simple, just change the code, so mk2 can do baseline 200%, with 500% at max OC
Less machines needed
wind spade
speed isn't the issue. Power is
if the mk2 will do 200% speed at 400% power, then mk1s are still better
cedar mica
Maybe it can take a lesson from the alts. Less material needed, for same result.
wind spade
that's basically my 3rd suggestion from the list above ๐
cedar mica
If they really want the MK2 to be special, they can make the alts only work on them
wind spade
depending on where mk2s would be in tech tree, I will probably dislike this
fierce ruin
when u dont have mk 5 belts yet
fierce ruin
lol
glossy knoll
Whatโs that got to do with belt speed?
fierce ruin
i need 1 place to get 370 and 1 place to get the remainder, im outputting 300 from 2 coal miners
so i need to do it
wind spade
@cedar mica alts are super powerful in early game as well and limiting them to later tech would hurt early game
fierce ruin
could u imagine... SCREWS
sand garnet
also kinda defeats the purpose if you split it into 2 belts only to merge it back into 1
cedar mica
I'm just saying, it would be a way to make MK2 stand out
glossy knoll
Yeah Iโm hesitant to agree that works
sand garnet
mk2 should be similar to how power generation tools improve along the tiers
fierce ruin
why doesnt it work? its a 2x2 balancer
cedar mica
I would not mind if hard drives where gone and mk2 had them already, when you unlocked it
barren elm
Space saving would be a bit lame
fierce ruin
and i aint doing oil im going straight to nuclear
barren elm
Like there's already infinite map space
sand garnet
you arent balancing anything beaver
barren elm
Saving space is a planning failure
cedar mica
More machines = Less frames, in the long run
fierce ruin
hooked it up wrong
sand garnet
lol yeah
wind spade
G E T O U T
summer field
Thanks, I hate it.
fierce ruin
im ocd and it doesnt bother me lmao
when i have mk5 belts ill take a video of me deconstructing it and making a manifold hows that greeny?
deal?
wind spade
Rek, can we update the title of this channel with "Images of clipping belts or discussion about them results in a permanent ban?"?
summer field
I figured that was implied.
fierce ruin
fine ill fix it
summer field
inb4 posting something that's even worse.
wind spade
ready your 
I guess
wind spade
good
fierce ruin
it was already fixed tho
wind spade
game knows what's best for you ๐ค
wind spade
fierce ruin
lol
if i need 20.5 coal generators and i want to make 20 should i overclock the last one to 150%
wind spade
you need more overclocking to achieve 150% power production
normal gen
what you want
with 150% overclock
fierce ruin
so should i just do 22 then
wind spade
experimentally increased the OC value, 170% is first value, where you need less than 1 gen
wind spade
yes, you can overbuild a little, shouldn't matter much with gens. You just need to keep that in mind that your max power production isn't sustainable for longer periods
fierce ruin
yep
fierce ruin
How much oil can be extracted with full OC on the map? The ones you can get to anyhow
ive heard around 10,800 but i cant verify that at all
wind spade
9750 iirc
fierce ruin
Now to split that with 2 factory sections
gl w/ fps
its better but not max oil on the map better
Trains + walls with med setting do wonders for fps!
idk i havent done a megabase since may
I'm mining out 15 iron with mk3 atm.
working my way thru tech now on this save
when this is done im gonna go to automation empire and then when the next update hits back to this but with mods
@fierce ruin it would probably be wise to turn the oil into rubber/plastic on site
imo
less lag in 1 area
Maybe. But I have 4875 for rubber and the same for plastic to make. I was going to bring it all to one zone. Then take the processed to two diffrent areas
Some of my factorys are "off the map" past the edge of land
wind spade
walls only help with fps if the lag is from GPU, if the lag is from CPU, then it won't help you
wind spade
depends on length of the track
fierce ruin
its like 80-100 foundations
wind spade
see tables in my post https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/c78bo0/satisfactory_saturday_spam_6_choo_choo_train_tips/
you want to use the 2nd table, that displays how often a train needs to arrive to keep up with a given belt speed and item stack size
fierce ruin
It will be many trains.from diffrent zones. Atm I run 6 diffrent 3 car trains
so every 4 mins
im good then i think
Ish. Some do multi stops do to some nods are impure
But I love that trains can pass through each other and run on the same rails. Makes life easy
satisfactory team: develop a whole circuit/logic system for trains: nah
let them run through each other: eyyy
wind spade
I usually recommend not using trains with multiple stops. Rather bring the nodes together and use one train ๐
fierce ruin
Some nodes are linked. But there slow enough with short track it can make 3 stops before droped off with out being filled
gleaming otter
@wind spade I'm going for one train, nine stops in a circle with trucks on sort of.. manmade tracks aka walls and foundations bringing resources into the station and the final factory in the center of the map
wind spade
I'd do 9 trains in your case, each one between center of the map and one station
gleaming otter
I started a new game recently so I'm just now about to finish the second space elevator delivery
I haven't played since just after satisfactory experimental build was released so I haven't actually used trains yet but I'm going to play with it a bit
wind spade
the issue with circle tracks is that if the train breaks, it stops everything. Also the track length isn't optimal, train has to do a lot of work before he delivers. Throughput of that is much smaller than dedicated trains per stop
gleaming otter
What do you mean breaks
wind spade
trains are still a bit buggy
and also, future proof - when we get collisions and signals
gleaming otter
already planning for that part
Though I do sort of like restarting with a fresh world now and again. Maybe I'm the odd man out on that one
I'm planning to have outposts with one car on the train bringing fuel in the other cars bringing mats to the center factory
wind spade
yeah that's why I usually prefer belts over trucks ๐