shrewd topaz
Such as alts that require oscillators or a lot of rubber
#math-and-meta
twin sentinel
Steel Screws alt is very good
shrewd yacht
hmm... I don't see how nuclear power is worth is with all the radiation and the waste we have to deal with?
fierce ruin
I am making a factory just using necular
shrewd yacht
you'll fill up mk2 boxes pretty fast and end up with a massive area at max radiation
did the stack size change?
fierce ruin
I will go through 20 rods every 10 minutes based on my expected factory plan
500 is the stack size
25 per rod
shrewd yacht
so two rods per minute
that will fill a stack of waste every 10 minutes
so 8 hours to fill a mk2 box with waste
fierce ruin
yeah pretty much. I am building on the NE next to the Dunes, the waste is going to be transported by trains to the block of Islands that has the death zone in the SW
Everything is going to be produced inhouse including the rod production to power the plants which will be in the roof
sacred urchin
I was assuming that spent fuel reprocessing would be introduced in a later tier.
shrewd yacht
it has to be or nuclear is not sustainable
two of the pure oil nodes can produce about 25000MW
as long as you do not overproduce and overclock macines, only miners, then that should be quite a bit along with thermal.
sacred urchin
I'm not up to nuclear yet, but from what I've looked at I'm not liable to ever use it. Not a megafactory builder, I'm just here to freak out when I find the funky alien stuff and collect lizard doggos
shrewd yacht
doggos still picking up nuclear stuff?
stopped taming them when they started doing that and got me killed
sacred urchin
From what I've seen Satisfactory really intends for there to be multiple ways to achieve goals. Nuclear is there if you want to use it, and some serious drawbacks should be there
Yeah mine did that and my friend killed it
In single player they keep bringing me slugs. I am happy with this scenario XD
shrewd yacht
😮
sacred urchin
I've blown him up several times, revenge was absolutely claimed for the doggo murder ;D
shrewd yacht
haha
errant garden
I just wanna check in case anyone else did the math, but does anyone know the absolute maximum super computers can be automated to? I calculated 107.6 per minute. Could anyone confirm this number?
(powering it would be an impossibility)
It only includes overclocking the miners and pumps though
prime grove
@errant garden where is this math from? does it consider every power source and every relevant resource node?
shrewd yacht
is there a list of total number of resource nodes that is current?
prime grove
i am assuming the satis map on the internets
shrewd yacht
oh man... you counted and added them up!?
prime grove
i did not, he probably did
shrewd yacht
well... one pure node of everything can support 15.4 supercomputers
you'd need 8700 or so oil per minute to produce 107 supercomputers per minute
and there are already 7 pure oil nodes for a total of 8400 oil per minute overclocked
err no
was thinking mk3
vast sonnet
shrewd yacht
seems there is 9750 oil/min total on map with overclocked pumps
oil is really the limiting factor for how much we can produce due to not having mk2 or 3 oil pumps
calculator seem to indicate 120 supercomputer theoretical max
problem would be getting over 48GW to power the whole thing without using any oil
feral dew
w o o d
shrewd yacht
right... 1000 coal generators burning 11111 coal per minute 😮
maybe... 5000 compacted coal per minute is doable
requres 9 normal nodes of coal and sulfur each with mk3 overclocked
arctic nova
I am pretty sure that oil pumps mk2 will be introduced at some point. And most likely they will be on par with mk3 miners, since Pumps MK1 are on par with MK2 Miners.
Sulfur is the 3rd rarest material to date if I remember correctly. Only S.A.M ore and uranium are more rare than sulfur^^
arctic nova
Does anyone know how to get rid of those trees? Need to cut a way, but currently I don't have explosives/chainsaw at hand. Like are they removable in general?
glacial hemlock
I am experimenting with radiation calculation today, will add in information to wiki progressively.
@errant garden the number was 100+ Sc before MK5, now should be more than 180 sc i suppose?
Oh wait... mk5 does not increase the oil limit at all...
frigid sluice
Wait?
Yes it does
For pure nodes the production is 600/m so it requires mk5 to get all out
glacial hemlock
Oh
arctic nova
yep. Also, it's very likely that we will have mk2 pumps at some later point
glacial hemlock
As max radiation kills in 6 seconds, i am using 6 as the baseline to calculate the current radiation level
frigid sluice
True
wind spade
@shrewd yacht theoretical SC limit is over 200/min
arctic nova
R.I.P
unborn parrot
welp
arctic nova
but anyways. I recommend you to let it as it is
unborn parrot
ok oil isnt limited
arctic nova
since as long as plan the way you planed right now, you will be future set just by adjusting belts
unborn parrot
cat is
arctic nova
Do calculate a belt limit of 1,200 tho
glacial hemlock
We hv no idea what will be the speed of mk6
wind spade
no discussion of unreleased content guys lol
unborn parrot
do you think they can handle 1080
glacial hemlock
Maybe 1080ti
unborn parrot
or 1200
wind spade
honestly even mk4 is already enough for most usages
unborn parrot
im not talking graphics cards im talking belt speeds
frigid sluice
Except mining
wind spade
@frigid sluice have you ever tapped all nodes and needed more?
unborn parrot
isnt there that glitch where you can put splitter really close to the miner
aand splitt it into two belts
glacial hemlock
You can, but why? It doesn't connect anyway
unborn parrot
and the second an item spawns it gets moved to the belts
frigid sluice
@wind spade nope. I'm just thinking about megabases
slender hedge
If I wanted to produce 240 Cable/min using a MK2 Miner on a Pure Copper Node, how many Smelters should I use? What about Constructors?
unborn parrot
240 cable
that means 480 wire/min
(16 constructors for cable)
you need 8 smelters for copper ore
slender hedge
Okay, so 8 Smelters into 16 Constructors into 16 Constructors?
unborn parrot
copper ingots/wire = 1:3
160 ingots needed a min
actually ill just open up greenys calc
slender hedge
Is that the greeny.dev one?
wind spade
also use iron wire, that's way better ratio 🙂
slender hedge
I haven't found the iron wire one yet
unborn parrot
yeah
wind spade
well it's ok if you didn't, but in the future, it's better to use iron for wire, since you need copper for aluminum and quickwire
unborn parrot
i was just giving him graph for copper cos he wanted copper
slender hedge
I will accept any free, useful advice
slender hedge
I have been exploring, trying to find as many HDs as possible
wind spade
if you are in the early/mid game, then it doesn't matter much. But the sooner you start building for end game, the less rebuilding you will have to do later
unborn parrot
or is all of america asleep rn
wind spade
@unborn parrot I doubt you will use more than 200 GW 😄
well unless you build like 4584684684687464 jump pads
arctic nova
run, he knows your secret!
slender hedge
I was looking to balance my outputs...if I am producing 240 copper/min and 16 constructors(x2) requires 160 copper/min, then what do I do with the rest?
unborn parrot
im doing it for the fact ill have 1 tw
wind spade
@slender hedge copper is only useful for wire, unless you have some alternate recipes (quickwire, iron alloy) or making alclad sheets
slender hedge
I am not running experimental, so I don't have alclad
wind spade
these are all the usages for copper ingot
oh, sorry. Then ignore alclad and you should use as much copper as possible for caterium, since caterium is more limited than iron (you should make iron wire anyway)
but that is mostly valid for late game, if you are not building big now, you don't have to worry about it that much
arctic nova
dang, just realized that I am not able to destroy the trees from the picture above :/
pastel flax
Funnel Copper into making Quickwire, then into Alloyed Iron Ingot.
Coal into Steel, then either power or Compacted Coal & Turbo Fuel.
Limestone into Silica then Concrete.
I'd need to study the chains for Sulfur, Quartz, & Bauxite to get solid answers for them.
pallid beacon
How many units of oil per minute do you need for a streamlined super computer production line?
wind spade
@pastel flax iron ingot alloy is not worth the copper
pastel flax
3 Iron ingots for the cost of 1 Iron ore & 1 Copper ore? 3 for the price of 2?
How is that not a good deal? This is assuming you use the Iron Wire Alt as well.
wind spade
you need copper for alclad and quickwire. You should have plenty of iron anyway
pastel flax
ah, haven't used that alt yet, will look into it
wind spade
alclad isn't alt recipe, it's from experimental
pastel flax
checks SFY wiki for recipe
checks wikipedia for definition of Alclad
wind spade
@pastel flax Alclad Aluminum Sheet
opaque socket
hello everyone, just wondering, what website do you usually check for recipes/factoriesFlowcharts/Techniques/etc ?
pastel flax
I know thats the recipe name, I checked wikipedia for the definition of the first part since it wasn't one I was familiar with.
glacial hemlock
I check them in game. Simply because i unlocked it
It takes around 25hrs for me to unlock all tier 7 and their alts, but i guess it could be under 10 hours
zenith cove
@@wind spade , jumpy boys jumpy gym needs those jump pads. If only we could OC jump pads for more oomph.
zenith cove
Alt iron kind of messes with integer number outputs. If copper is going into aluminum process for the game, it has purpose beyond furthering iron wire and caterium wire production. This is a good direction for copper.
errant garden
@glacial hemlock Unfortunately, no. I didn't necessarily calculate for the conveyer belts for an obvious reason, as that would take a lot longer. Including the 900 per minute cap we have right now, it's actually more likely to be less.
shrewd yacht
how do you figure 200 SC/min @wind spade ?
adding up oil nodes on the map currently will not have enough oil for that many
wind spade
alternate recipes
shrewd yacht
already calculated with that
wind spade
combinations of them
shrewd yacht
well the consumption calculator says about 120 with 9750 oil per minute available
wind spade
did you used the correct numbers for all nodes?
wind spade
yeah, that's 16560 per minute
shrewd yacht
uhm?
wind spade
with overclocking
shrewd yacht
your production says otherwise
wind spade
these are the numbers for current patch, all overclocked to max, but considering belt limitations
mk3 miners, mk5 belts max
shrewd yacht
7 pure at 250% gives 4200
I set up one poduction line for each, pure, normal and impure
and set them at 250%
wind spade
mk3 miner is x4, pure node is 120
shrewd yacht
crude oil yes
wind spade
sorry, I just got up lol
shrewd yacht
haha
wind spade
ok, oil number may be of
wind spade
then it gives 125
shrewd yacht
pure normal and impure
wind spade
SC per minute
shrewd yacht
that gives 9750 oil per minute
then look at consumption setup
the total imput there is exactly that
and calculator ends at 120.9
ahh shiet!
forgot to increase quartz
need 9k quartz
seem to be 13200 quartz per minute available
glacial hemlock
i have measured radiation up to 100meters radius. I am waiting my storages to pile up and see how much it can radiates
wooden rune
@opaque socket 
hard depot
Anyone do the math yet on the radius of radiation based on the number of items of radioactive source? ie 100 raw uranium is X meters for no radiation.
glacial hemlock
not sure...
glacial hemlock
i have done some measurement on the radiation given off by containers, more research required.
stiff walrus
Is there a website with schematics for split ratio? I'm looking for 1/5 or 1/10
wooden rune
well it's genereally recommended to not use even splitters, as it's not needed in this game. You should just use manifolds like this:
+--+--+--+--+--+
@stiff walrus
plus being a splitter/merger and minus being the belt. Then you just have the exact input or a bit more than needed and everything will work just fine
glacial hemlock
max radiation kill engineers at 5 seconds...
stiff walrus
@wooden rune but I'm a pedant, I want to run everything smoothly with out stoping
glacial hemlock
@stiff walrus add a line of constructors, then before each constructors add a splitter. Then feeding the belt from either side and connect them all like a line. Do the same with output using mergers. Boom you got a manifold.
wooden rune
well, good luck with that then 😄
glacial hemlock
Why not try manifold first before you come to such conclusion?
wooden rune
I think some people have been sharing even splitters on reddit, might wanna check there.
honestly, I doubt that even works, you can't have everything constantly running
eventually your newly produced stuff will no longer be needed and is doomed to back up
unless you want to constantly delete every container content
stiff walrus
honestly, thats what I'm doing 😂
wooden rune
Oof, good luck with that when you have container all over the place and 30+ of them
daring imp
does a manifold work for coal gens? i got a pure node which should supply 10 gens but with a manifold it keeps running out on the last few gens even though all were manually maxed out to start
magic sparrow
I personally like the aesthetics of every machine working at exactly 100% (also leads to spagetti, but alas, it's art!). However yea, I've found manifolds to be nicer.
stiff walrus
i found a solution to divide by 5, it's not that complex, all you need is two splitters and two mergers, but probably I'm not the first one who found that solution
stark lichen
What is your conveyor belt size and miner? @daring imp
daring imp
I had mk 2 belts and MK1 pure miner @stark lichen
terse gyro
I wander why did they changed the amount of the mk 4 belts though... it makes a huge mess deal with 480 instead of 450 with mk2 miners on normals and impure nodes (full OC at 150 and 300)
wind spade
why would that change make any difference?
feral dew
I seem to recall tons of people complaining that a miner would put out 480 ppm, and the mk4 belt only accept 450.
People are going to be complaining either way, but this makes a lot more sense than 450
fierce ruin
they changed the belt speed in EX to be 480pm for mk4
terse gyro
@wind spade calculations on inputs that requires 15/30/45 per minute... 100% efficiency in a complex overflow method is quite complex with not exact numbers
wind spade
100% efficiency is so easy
fierce ruin
100% is really easy
stark lichen
Because we can't underclock to exact decimals places, it is more like 99.9999repeatingofcourse efficiency
wind spade
99.999999 repeating = 100 btw
stark lichen
I just got mathowned.
wind spade
you are in #math-and-meta , you should've expeceted that
for those not familiar with the math behind .99999 = 1 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999...
prime grove
who said .9inf- isn't equal to 1?
stiff walrus
@prime grove its true, there is a mathematical prove
prime grove
i didn't say it wasn't i was wondering who was saying it wasn't. just looks like an oopsie from what i read
stiff walrus
@prime grove I'm sorry, I've miss read
wind spade
@prime grove [10:58 PM] Belorequan: Because we can't underclock to exact decimals places, it is more like 99.9999repeatingofcourse efficiency
feral dew
pretty sure that starting a witchhunt over the validity of 0.9 bar = 1 doesn't fall under the so on and so forth clause
wind spade
it does
feral dew
it doesn't
wind spade
maybe talking about if it falls under the clause doesn't fall under the clause
zenith cove
So, max energy from nuclear in experimental, unless they give us back the nodes that were taken away (assuming the map is up to date for experimental), with all available alts, is: 350 GW
At this rate of waste creation, it will take ~34 minutes to fill an industrial storage container...
fierce ruin
Jesus but at 100% usage, what is your consumption tho?
zenith cove
No clue. This is just the math max... meta max is undetermined
240 IDC will give you 137 hours of breathing room at max load... Assuming you can even utilize 1/4 of that power load, 240 IDC will give you closer to 500 hours of breathing room.
My math is wrong... I forgot that the mk3 miner was added with this patch... Fuck. The max you can produce is actually 700 GW
Won't have much quartz left over, though...
arctic nova
hm, what BP's did you consider in your calculations? didn't dig too deep into right now, but I speed-calculated it to be arouund 1,365 GW with current belt speeds.
mostly based on total possible uranium yield atm, didn't look for the rest of the resources, since uranium is the most rare resource I though that this would be the limiting factor in the calculation
zenith cove
Assuming that the interactive map is up to date for the experimental, there are 2 normal nodes.
arctic nova
wrong side. It's 3
zenith cove
Then it is not up to date. lol
arctic nova
zenith cove
Basically can produce 28 rods per node at mk3 normal
Yeah this map also states that there are 2
arctic nova
should be like 109 with alternate uranium cell and alternate nuclear fuel rod
zenith cove
I am using a different map
arctic nova
and 1 fuel rod is burned in 5 min, so you can power 109*5 nuclear power plants at 2.500 MW
zenith cove
I'm just using the power calc available here. at a max rate of 56 rods produced (assuming 1200 max production on the two nodes), 280 plants, 700 GW
You must have info I don't have or greeny dun goofed on his calc, but I doubt the latter of the two
arctic nova
fml
found my mistake
I had pure nodes in mind, ofc it should be half the amount of what I said
zenith cove
Always a gotcha waiting in the darkness
arctic nova
But that number is also based on 780 max production for all 3 uranium nodes. And by the way, I have visited physically all 3 nodes, it's indeed 3 and not 2
but wait
actually I need to recalc it
I just cut my final result /1200870, now that uranium limit is 6003 there is no belt limitation, so it should be slightly higher (if the rest of the resources are not running out ofc)
1.005 GW
that should be the limit if uranium is the limit
fierce ruin
I only need 50gw
arctic nova
damn punks 😛
arctic nova
does anyone have an idea how trains are gonna be powered?
fierce ruin
From what I have tried they are not powered and just run, but that is really old, last I saw should be electric
arctic nova
sound like great fun with electric.
btw. I finally finished my aluminum project. That was actually 3 days of work, most annoying was connecting all bauxit and quartz nodes to it
fierce ruin
yeah they are not in the most convenient places
arctic nova
The idea behind is, that once we will get CBs for a capacity of 1,200 (I do bet my arse that mk6 will be exactly 1,200, so gambling on that that's why it's done for that amount) that this thing will run at 1,200 items/ min. Only thing that this amount would need is actually just upgrading the belts to this. Everything else is set and ready. Currently this thing should produce 480 aluminum ingots due to my usage of mk4 belts. But is going to be upgraded once I got enough of the sheets.
Why so many? I usually don't have big ass fabrication but with the exception of things that land on the main bus. Well, this bus shall carry those 1.200 so that I'm future-set for all needed aluminum.
Just some data from the calc how much material is processed: (ofc at todays date /1200 x780 due to belt limitations):
fierce ruin
Nice
arctic nova
bottom view with the silica assemblers, 2 line of quartz, 1 line of limestone intake. silica get's distributed on 6 belts to the back again and then get elevated with the bauxite to the top level
back site, all intakes, some belt balancers, elevators from bottom to top as well
and the final 40 foundries
the entire thing should work at perfect ratios without overproducing any intermediate products
zenith cove
Yeah, 1200 will be very nice. Pure nodes are going to skew some resources way up there at 1200 vs 600 as opposed to 450 vs 300 or 780 vs 600 that we have now
I'm sure a lot of rebalancing will need to occur for that. Hoping that they don't leave oil in this limbo state for too many patches. It's pretty important for a lot of stuff
arctic nova
pretty sure we will see mk2 pumps on par with mk3 miners
fierce ruin
it's looking good
arctic nova
Thanks 😃 Maybe I will make a reddit post about that thing and go a little bit into detail, especially how I did solve the balancing of the item distribution. That was actually kinda tricky.
But not today anymore, I will leave into the night 🦇
zenith cove
In the heat of the night 🎵
cedar mica
Apparently if you use alt recipies, so can you get 84 nuclear rods, which can power 420 reactors. Is that correct? And if so, how much of the map do you need to cover, to put down 420 of those things?
maiden cave
Witch one
crude girder
Alt rotor are good
zenith cove
enriched coal. You don't need the alt rotor recipe at the point in the game it looks like you are at
enriched coal will build way more steel
hallow mesa
belt with 600, need to spilt 360 off or 60% of belt, is there a better way that going to 1/10 with splitters?
feral dew
how is the 360 being integrated?
is it heading into just N machines?
or is it a bit more complex
hallow mesa
yeah it leads to 8 furnances
feral dew
You should use an uncapped manifold. Realistically getting 4/6 splits are quite difficult and space wasteful
hallow mesa
uncapped manifold?
feral dew
however, if you attach all 8 of those furnaces to inline splitters, you'll be able to pull out 360, since that's all that can be pulled out, and the left over 40% will simply leave the manifold
it's when the output of the manifold simply exits on a belt, rather than coming to a stop at the last amchine
hallow mesa
gonna just go ahead and look dumb but whats a manifold
feral dew
no problem, manifolds are when you have multiple machines attached to a single conveyor belt via inline splitters
hallow mesa
ah, yeah I'm kinda doing something like that right now
feral dew
there are both input manifolds and output manifolds, but usually it refers to input manifolds. People also like to call them "overflow method", but I sort of hate that name
hallow mesa
Yeah I got a input manifold set up but I'm piping coal and need to start spiltting it
I guess design wise I should've did 10 on a manifold and I wouldn't have much issue then
feral dew
always good to keep things like that in mind for the next time you're building
I find that I can always make better systems after some thought
hallow mesa
what about a 3/5 spilt?
mint lagoon
At what point is it more worth it to use trucks than long conveyors?
fierce ruin
never lmao conveyors always trump cars, replacing it with trains would be a better solution
once they exist
hallow mesa
I think trucks are only cheaper construction wise
mint lagoon
Cool, Thanks! there's a few things I've never done in my 400+ hours on the game(4 sessions), trucks and jump pads mostly. Thought I should, but if trucks aren't worth, good to know.
tulip birch
They are worth it until you get enough materials for a belt way, if the distance is signficant
glacial hemlock
A manifold is you put a truck station in front and behind every constructors and run the truck loop! (troll)
feral dew
@mint lagoon don't listen to these fools
Trucks are logistically equivalent to belts. There is no better or worse. The difference is your preference
I can go into much more depth after some sleep, but imo, the people who unabashedly call trucks worthless or inferior never had the interest to use them to begin with
tulip birch
There may be some issues with the trucks if they are used but Tomayo is correct in that its preferance
terse gyro
since trucks have to load/unload stations through belts, the main diference is that you wont be using belts all over the map (wich I personally prefer, cuz take a ride on belts is sometimes faster than the explorer)
lethal wing
what's the coal/m of a coal generator?
wind spade
@zenith cove max nuclear is 1010 GW
pseudo jay
@hallow mesa here is a 3/5 and 2/5 split (I would recommend a manifold with overflow though)
The drawback of a manifold (overflow does get less than the intended split until the buildings are filled with items) with overflow is quite minor and easily rectified
You can drastically shorten the startup time by prefilling the buildings manually
crude girder
that's what i keep saying, if you handfill, saturation time is how fast you can insert
opaque socket
@pseudo jay @hallow mesa isn't it more efficient ?
shadow scaffold
Looks to be
wind spade
@opaque socket yours cannot work with saturated belts
opaque socket
I've just simplified this version of a 5 split, this also doesn't work with saturated belt ? and if it isn't, why ? 🤔
pseudo jay
The belt from bottom merger to central splitter would need to carry 120% of the input belt
wind spade
basically if you want to work with full load, then every input belt should go first into a splitter
(with addition that any belt in the contraption should not go over 95% of load)
opaque socket
oh ok i see, ty !
daring imp
with manifolds is it always best to come in at either end and meet in the middle or it okay to just have one belt into the splitters at one end and just keep extending
glacial hemlock
No, the input belt for manifold can feed at anywhere. It doesn't need to be at specific splitter
wind spade
he is asking if he should feed it from the middle and essentially build two manifolds or if it's better to feed from one side
the answer is:
- feeding from middle is faster, but harder to expand
- it's not that faster, so it's better to keep it expandable, in case devs change belt speeds again or something
- feed it from one side only, unless you really care about fill time being about 10% shorter
barren elm
It's good practice to only build in one direction, because of expandability and general factory cleanness, as greeny said
Another thing to keep in mind is that as your factory grows, having everything be consistent and follow universal rules helps make sure that it's visually clean
That spaghetti mess of a factory might be clear as day in your head right now, but take a break for a week and suddenly nothing makes sense anymore, hence rules
fluid ether
for stuff Like that I would love signs. big signs
eager moth
time to write text with foundations
wooden rune
walls*
eager moth
power poles!
iron thunder
have somebody tips for build a better factory my factories are always big and fast but they arent very beautiful
they should look tidy
pseudo jay
@unborn parrot ideally you'll want Quarz and limestone, or silica nearby
unborn parrot
oooh
pseudo jay
Also you'll need copper nearby
unborn parrot
srry i meant alclad/min
pseudo jay
And bauxite
I would aim for the same amount as encased steel beams, since you'll use alclad to replace the MK4 conveyors you built using encased steel beams
unborn parrot
my encased beams is like 5/min
cos ive just built up that many in containers
i dont know the rarity or complexity of alclad
like is it iron plate rarity, rotor rarity, computer rarity
pseudo jay
One sec
arctic nova
I could imagine that train tracks could also use the sheets. So maybe double the amount compared to steel beams, since steel beams are the equivalent on lower tier. But maybe you just wanna wait till it's confirmed what train tracks will use
unborn parrot
should i build higher? for radar tower
i cant remember my steel beam production
atleast 100
ill try and get 200 alclad sheets/min
pseudo jay
Al clad will need raw quartz, limestone (for silica), bauxite and copper
There are 7 normal and 1 pure bauxite nodes on the map, 12 normal and 5 pure quartz nodes
arctic nova
yesterday I posted a neat little setup for aluminum here. While you won't need as much, you might have a look and scale it down a little, since you would need 1/6 of the production I put up there
@pseudo jay How come that I allready connected 4 pure bauxite then? 
unborn parrot
hmm
arctic nova
it's a total of 5 pure, 6 normal and 1 impure from what I remember
unborn parrot
i can literally see clouds below me have i built high enough for a radar tower
arctic nova
ah roger that. Yeah, anyways, experimental makes more sense since that material is used for t7 anyways^^
pseudo jay
Just to clarify: they added nodes on the experimental build
unborn parrot
guess ill keep building
pseudo jay
I dont play on experimental
arctic nova
experimental build will hit stable at some point.
crude girder
tfw no motivation to play exp, might as well wait for trains >.>
arctic nova
and you can't process aluminum on normal EA atm.
pseudo jay
@arctic nova but you can prepare for it
arctic nova
well good point @pseudo jay
crude girder
Sure
unborn parrot
ok
crude girder
You'll need power up there tho
pseudo jay
You don't need continuous power tough
Plopping 4 biomass burners and filling them fully will suffice
arctic nova
I wonder how height-scaling is working on those high placed radars, are there like diminishing returns or can you potentially scan the entire world with 1 radar tower only if you just move it high up enough
pseudo jay
Not quite, you hit the hurt/kill box before that point
pseudo jay
unborn parrot
well shit
arctic nova
roger. But if there are no diminishing returns it would be still useful to climb up to the highest possible point I guess
pseudo jay
That tower is in the center and the radio tower is in the hurt box; its coverage isn't from coast to coast
arctic nova
how much is missing? like percentage whise, how much do you cover?
pseudo jay
I'll need to check once I am home
arctic nova
yeah, no worries. I though you were at your pc 😃
unborn parrot
how long can a cable go
patent bough
After revealing the whole map on one save I don't see the point in doing it again. If anything having unrevealed map sections tells me where I haven't been yet, and using towers skews that.
arctic nova
would be cool if you could use the radar for something more, I agree. What would be a potentially cool feature is to scan for specific resources with a radar tower, and it will show all specific resource nodes in the area of all available radar stations for example
opaque socket
hey guys, do you usually repeat the process of all production you need for a new factory or do you take prod from other factories to input new ones ?
What i mean is, for example, you want to build a Rotor factory, do you take rod and screw from your rod/screw factory, or do you repeat the rod/screw production into your rotor new factory ?
If you tested both method, what is for you the best and funnier one ?
(i usually have one factory for each prod and uses the output of these one to input new factories, but i lack of space for extending while doing that)
arctic nova
This is more of a philosophical question to be fair. There are multiple ideas that you can chose from to build your factory.
I personally do run a Main Bus with basic materials (like ingots, concrete, plastic; stuff like that) and then I usually build every Item that I wanted from those scratch bus resources. E.g. my rotor facility builds rotors and fills one container and I do use them for building stuff. Yet my motor setup does not take any of those rotors, but produces it's own needed rotors.
crude girder
a mix of both is the best
mass produce basic materials like ingots, make dispersed factories for building intermediates and end products
arctic nova
exactly what @crude girder is saying. Also my approach
opaque socket
i see, i kinda like the idea of building everything you need just for this factory, can be a quite good challenge to make everything compact and extendable
and with upcoming trains ( 😍 ) making stations from ingots or basic prods all over the world could be very fun
zenith cove
The concept of an advanced technology radar tower being less sophisticated, powerful, and adaptive than the little handheld resource scanner is asinine. I know it's not incredibly difficult to run through until you get the radar tower set up, but fuck. If the in game map were made more sophisticated by the addition of the radar tower, that would at least be somewhat acceptable.
crude girder
They're probably afraid to make it too easy :/
feral dew
I'd have to agree @crude girder The game's easy enough as is.
having a radar tower that would make it even easier would be a bit of a problem
dreamy valley
How many nuclear power plants can run off 1 manufacturer
wind spade
rather this https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/power
dreamy valley
Thx
feral dew
People treat you like some sort of lord, when really the best thing you ever did was make the item page. @wind spade
Actually, I guess you're a god for the item page alone
fierce ruin
I still prefer your item broswer while I play the game, easier to reference for me
feral dew
I'm usually not playing the game while doing merger math
wind spade
@feral dew have you made any progress with measuring the update's influence on mergers?
feral dew
I started working to T3 just the other day. I'm pretty busy during the week though, so I likely won't have many results until the weekend
wind spade
no rush 🙂 just was asking
feral dew
No problem. I'vr been putting it off for awfully long after all
glacial hemlock
@feral dew T3? You mean just unlocked T3? Or starting mass production
feral dew
I need T3 belts before the problematic belt issues become apparent, and I can start comparisons
glacial hemlock
Oh you mean mk3
Apparently the good way to measure belt speed is to shove items into industrial container and use a stopwatch
Merge 3 screw constructors into a mk3 and see how well it goes. The visual on the belt is sometime misleading
feral dew
because I felt like it?
I was going to list a few reasons, but none of that really matters in comparison to my first reason
Also, I've got to say, but, I don't really agree on the stopwatch thing.
Sure, it's handy for some systems, but I've noticed in the past that it can induce a lot of algorithmic errors, sometimes even getting negative numbers in places that shouldn't be less than 1.
Generally, if a stopwatch is necessary to time something, you should use a different model instead. Otherwise, if you wanted to know how much time went by, you should just divide all of the items transferred by the input belt frequency.
glad shard
pretty sure the command "stat unit" can do just that, divide 1000 by whatever you are getting and that'll be your UPS
stark lichen
Why does the heat sink alt drop rubber for wire? Normally it would be other way around. What is the point of having the base recipe?
wind spade
so that you will replace it as soon as possible
eager moth
Has anyone made a list of the must-have alternate recipes?
primal dew
of all the alt recipes, the alternate screw recipe that uses ingots instead of rods is probably my favorit
pure moss
i agree
pseudo jay
I have opted to banish screws all together from my factories
pure moss
lul
eager moth
I really liked the idea of the copper+iron=iron ingot together with iron wires
pseudo jay
Iron wire + stitched plates + alt rotor + alt heavy modular frames
eager moth
but with the new stuff requiring copper I stopped using those
pseudo jay
H yeah, copper and iron for more ingots is great
eager moth
all my copper goes to caterium and, when I get to it, aluminum
pseudo jay
I still need to do my math for my factory past the next update
arctic nova
@eager moth to rate alternate blueprints is kinda difficult because it depends also on the available resources and more, but as general guideline you can use my spread sheet: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/c29sru/reworked_screw_it_blueprint_comparison_chart/
eager moth
ooh, that looks really helpful
primal dew
i need a good way to efficiently automate heavy mod frames. I make roughly 20 standard mod frames a minute, and im working on upping my steel output
earnest igloo
The alt recipe helps quite a bit. I've got four manufacturers running those currently.
glacial hemlock
@primal dew if somebody mentioned alt screws are good, they probably haven't seen all the other recipes.
primal dew
no i havent seen the other recipes. i do still feel like the screws alt is good tho mainly because overall it requires the same input and exports the same output, but without the requirement of an additional constructor .-.
glacial hemlock
try to find more, you will be surprised by more alt recipes.
5 hours around could get you more-than-enough hard drives
primal dew
aight, thanks
wind spade
@primal dew alt screws is one of the worst recipes in the game
stark lichen
Is there a good reason to use alternates for nuclear power? Just using the base recipes gives you huge mileage fronlm one uranium node.
Unkess the parts will also be used for SAM ore stuff or whatever.
wind spade
@stark lichen
tough shale
I would I split 3 coal mines into 33 coal gens efficently
wind spade
@tough shale 11 per mine?
wind spade
each mine feeds 11 generators
wind spade
that is correct, if you use all the power
tough shale
Cus 3 mk2 = 360
wind spade
yea
tough shale
So how would I efficiently split that
But what kind of conveyor would I need to use this
wind spade
well you should use at least mk2
wind spade
since you need to transport 120/min
stark lichen
Dunno still, how much power are we going to need endgame? Are hadron colliders and quantum encoders going to need absurd amounts of power?
@wind spade At what points do you upgrade power from coal to whatever else? Is it a certain milestone or number?
wind spade
unless you really need coal, then you should upgrade from coal to nuclear
stark lichen
The question is when, though. Just want your opinion.
wind spade
at the point where you unlock nuclear and all the alts for nuclear 😄
stark lichen
Hmm, simple.
tough shale
wind spade
well you have a bit less, but that should be fine
307.5/min you have
and you get 300/min from the miner
tough shale
Bruh trying to split this is gonna be a pain
wind spade
why so?
tough shale
7 foundrys
stark lichen
You mean with balancers?
tough shale
?
wind spade
simple enough
arctic nova
connection in series, once the first machine is full the overflow will go to the next machine and so on. Only important is that you stay at max belt speed with items and it will balance itself out EDIT: like make sure that you the belt has enough material to feed all machines.
wind spade
just put them all in the row
polar sleet
I tend to use the the same belt type as the source belt for the manifold "spine"; and the smallest feasible belt for each input connection. that way it spreads more evenly.
tough shale
ahh yah cus im gonna have 7 foundrys cus its 6.7
wind spade
if you hover over the nodes on the visualization thingy, it tells you how to underclock them if you want whole numbers
polar sleet
under clock to save power if you have decimal building requirements.
tough shale
nah its good power isnt really a issue
wind spade
still you should underclock it for better output
use the value it gives you when hovering over the node
polar sleet
yeah the output behaves weirdly if it receives more than it can handle.
polar sleet
so if you saturate a production line and the output for the buildings is approximately equal or greater than the max of the main output belt. it'll have a lower max thru put than the belt implies.
polar sleet
can't remember the details, but it's something like lag of the belts or mergers not merging cleanly when items show up at the same time. causes output to drop below max.
tough shale
Im gonna need mk4 conveyer belts for this whole line right
@polar sleet Why dont u have an output in your manifold
mb wrong person
tired barn
how many 250% fuel generators can one oil refiner feed comfortably\
assuming i have an infinite amount of crude oil
wind spade
don't overclock generators, it's better to build more of them
tired barn
fair
wind spade
but, anyway, you can use https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/power to get your numbers
tired barn
thank
tough shale
To do the constructors would I line them up with foundry
and the last line I would split into the other constructor
wind spade
no
merge all the input from foundries to one belt
and split the belt the same way you did before
wind spade
mostly for power generators to save space. But there are some nice designs of other build with them as well
they are the same as single ones, just more compact (well, wider, but shorter)
but they work the same as normal manifolds
arctic nova
that's what you mean with double manifold, correct?
wind spade
yeah
it's probably not an official term, but I think it suits it well
nice smelter design btw
feral dew
@wind spade I won't say much now, but yesterday I was reviewing some old splitter math, and learned that I may be able to figure out the percent distribution for weird cases similar to the old 450 -> 60/120/270. That isn't to say that I know anything about the average input and output speeds, though.
wind spade
I like the alternating smelters
feral dew
Also, Yeah, I do like those smelters
wind spade
@feral dew cool, keep me updated!
arctic nova
thanks. actually most of my mass production for main bus are somewhat in this double manifold-style, even concrete and stuff like that
feral dew
It looks really space efficient. I'll probably be using it for my larger factories, in proper lasagna fashion
arctic nova
this thing is designed to smelt 900 copper without overclock. yet I currently setup everything for 1.200 to be (hopefully) futureproof.
yet ofc doesn't reach the 900 yet because of belt limitation
arctic nova
not efficient
like belt input are at the very outside
so you can't save space by moving it on back layer
And actually I just finished my new 1.200 setup
normal manifold is better for smelters at least
so this is is the 10 smeters more than above, yet on almost the same size (which is about 7x8 foundations)
so since the smelter is so small you won't save space due to the reason that you have longer belts, while the longer the belt the more space you waste. In comparison it's totally worth to do the double manifold for wide buildings with only one intake, like the fuel generators
wind spade
@feral dew • Fixed some network related clamping on the Conveyors
fierce ruin
Greeny did you see the #patch-notes ?
wind spade
I literally just posted a message copied from them lol
patent bough
so. train tracks conduct electricity, train stations take up less space than truck stations, trains are theoretically more reliable than vehicles because of fixed track and time-table based routing.... (also they don't derail from testing)...one engine can pull as many freight cars as you need it to...
and tracks are relatively flexible to place (can't turn as steeply horizontally or vertically as conveyors)
requires steel pipes AND steel beams to build, so hey, steel beams are no longer useless!
arctic nova
well, still needs quite some improvement on laying tracks, also bugs like trains not continuing, not beeing able to deconstruct them and so on
sand venture
Well, you needed steel beams for t3 belts, and for reinforced beams
arctic nova
but still, they have a great potential once the bugs have been ironed out
sand venture
Its been live for less than 4hrs
arctic nova
well, later on you won't use t3 belts anymore, and reinforced beams aka encased industrial beams can be made from steel pipe (alternate)
ye ofc. I don't cry about the bugs since it's experimental, just saying there needs some more patches until this can move to live/EA
hexed adder
@patent bough on the other hand, trucks are tier 3, so accessible much earlier
patent bough
eh doesnt take that long to unlock tier 5/6
wind spade
@hexed adder there is no reason to use trucks now
well at least there will be no reason when the trains are fixed
stark lichen
You can still use trucks to gather resources from a remote corner where you dont wany to lay tracks. Just add a fuel car onto each train to enable truck/train transfers.
wind spade
tbh it's just better to belt it somewhere to the train stop
stark lichen
But not cool 😎
wind spade
trucks aren't cool
also, this is #math-and-meta , we don't do cool stuff, we do perfect stuff
wind spade
remove trucks
stark lichen
What do you think would make them more viable Greeny?
wind spade
at least two outputs/input per station, better setting up of paths (copy/paste, move nodes, automatic straight lines or whatever), non-random movement, probably even pathfinding-based driving instead of following a programmed road.
wispy bear
I think when trains are on Stable they will be really usefull to get alot of raw ore to one place to another
atleast thats how i gonna use them
stark lichen
I think one thing trucks have going for them is that they can more easily pick up multiple nodes by driving through several chained stations. Trains need more space or planning because of fixed freight car order.
Although that might not be a big deal for some.
wind spade
honestly as long as truck stations only have 1 input/output, I don't really care about them
stark lichen
Gotcha
wispy bear
I mainly use 1 truck to carry Uranium cells to my Power plant because i build it to far away lol
wispy bear
everybody gangsta untill the truck full of uranium cells is comming closer
wind spade
I still need to install April update
but so far, it seems like trains are just superior to anything
patent bough
did i mention they can go over 100 km/h?
lone yoke
How fast can they go?
fierce ruin
Greeny, for my 10 item per minute idea, would the pure only oil nodes cover my needs or do I need some normal ones as well?
wind spade
I guess you can put that into the tool and find out lol
fierce ruin
your tool doesn't tell me only tells me how much oil I need total. based on what it says I need 27.4 normal pumps
wind spade
you can switch the purity in settings
well, default purity in settings and production line purity in production line configuration
nimble dune
Any info pools on all the different community builds and designs exist that I could look over?
Ive heard the term overflow used, and above the double manifold term. Anything in regards to those examples?
wind spade
double manifold is just a special case of a manifold. Some people refer to it as "overflow method", but we use the term "manifold" here
it refers to splitters/mergers in series on one belt instead of building balancers
rich zenith
Is there any way to set a percentage of resources out of each "Branch" of a splitter, or do I have to set up weird splitter machines to get certain amounts of resources in other places
nimble dune
is there a guide anywhere that explains the different 'methods' used in building with examples and such?
i ask for means of condensing my builds, also i can't for the life of me figure out how to overflow, if our definitions of overflow are the same
little fiber
Trucks need freight wagons like trains....and it will be very usefull to whitelist items into the truck so you can overlap truck paths into other depots without unload or load unwanted items
wind spade
@nimble dune I doubt. some of the builds are shared in #screenshots though
lone yoke
Ohhhh boi its official EVERY single other vechal is utterly pointless!
train docks have 2 in and outputs~
sand venture
Well even if it was just the 1 input / output, the (in theory) perfect reliability and repeatability would have made them the only choice
lone yoke
The cart inventory's are something to be desired though.. with how big they are you would expected something bigger then 32 slots
sand venture
Trucks flipping, getting stuck or going off cliffs is a pain
Well you can just add more
lone yoke
but that makes the station size much bigger... these are that space fficent
sand venture
Well if you are needing more than 2x tier 5 belts of throughput, i'd imagine your factory is big enough to accomodate a longer station. Each unit is only 2 foundations long
wind spade
@sand venture if they had 1 input, belts would still be a valid option
sand venture
Eh, over long distance trains are incredibly cheap compared to belts
And a lot less laggy
Belting from the desert to the green plains would not be fun, but i'd have no objections to running a train
wind spade
I assume trains have some cost over time though
lone yoke
Actually
When they get up to speed they use low amount of power
the lowest at a speed of 130kmh is 15
And getting up and down to speed, it seems to max out around 80
wind spade
but they still use something
lone yoke
You use a lot more when going up a incline as well
Oh ya, but with fuel, and nuclear power should not be an issue
wind spade
my point being, any one-time cost, however large, will eventually be lower than cost over time, which essentially limits your production by a bit
sand venture
Yeah you could run 30 trains at full pelt off a single reactor
lone yoke
And I doubt ya do that
sand venture
Fair enough greeny
But also trains are fun
lone yoke
You would have mutiple stops on one train line
and you most likely go past multiple ore deposits
wind spade
I have nothing about trains in the current version. But we were discussing trains with only 1 output per stop
nimble dune
more trains the merrier
lone yoke
but they have 2 in and out soo
lone yoke
lol
nimble dune
heres hoping you can have 1 item type per cart and have multiple carts
pulled to their own out line, no clogging
lone yoke
AWWWWWWWWW
sand venture
So you can have multiple item types per train
sand venture
What i dont understand is why its impossible to drive over the tracks with a car
The car just gets stuck on something invisible and you cant move
lone yoke
Oh ya, tracks and the trains dont match ya preset colorus if ya change them
stark lichen
Train tracks can span approximately 12 foundation of space suspended between foundation blocks.
wind spade
is it 12.5? the same as power lines? 100m reach?
stark lichen
I am not sure. They are fussy to place down neatly.
hmm well actually you can measure that just on the ground, i forgot
at least it makes it easy for them to cross over your trucks roads
but people dont use trucks so moot point
oh right, i was checking because for some reason I thought the track would try to dip down before max span distance
rich zenith
Is there any way to set a percentage of resources out of each "Branch" of a splitter, or do I have to set up weird splitter machines to get certain amounts of resources in other places
crude girder
feral dew
@rich zenith
- No, there isn't, and even if there was I can assure you that it wouldn't work.
- weird splitter machines are part of the logistical challenge of the game, they're what make it fun besides endless handcrafting
trail depot
I have a question. If the constructor creates a 6 screws out of a rod at a rate of 90 per minute, does that realistically mean it creates 540 screws per minute or is it realistically making 15 groups of 6 screws a minute?
sand venture
It makes 90 screws a minute
pseudo jay
@crude girder balancers do have their place: when you need to ensure a ratio of ressources (for example rotor and stator production) when you can't guarantee a steady supply on input belt (if you don't have enough steel rod production to run heavy modular frame, ammo and motor production at the same time)
crude girder
With proper planning you wouldn't need those balancers
crude girder
He's thinking bus, where you build what you want, but don't actually plan production numbers
sand venture
Yeah buses dont really work that well here compared to factorio
crude girder
The math in this game is ridiculously easy, just plan ahead instead of using balancers to make up for it
pseudo jay
It's a situation that doesn't occur often. Like 95% of the time my factory isn't producing everything requiring steel rods and for the remaining 5% a simple balancer is less work than hauling additional resources in to satisfy demands at all times
Of courseit is not a permanent solution, but other more exciting production/exploration needed to be done
shut arch
nice. just to give you an impression though: i'm currently tapping 9 pure limestone nodes alone, all of the overclocked so they fill an mk4 belt each.
this is not to belittle your factory, just to illustrate the scale i'm talking about.
and i actually envy you for that spreadsheet. i'd like one, too, but i'm too lazy to maintain one. 😃
arctic nova
Nice overview. too lazy to do the sheet tho, I just have 2 saved builds for greenys calc, one for main bus items to keep track of those and one generous one with the inputs set to the bus values. anyways, that's clean af and I might adept 👌
crude girder
it's a one time thing to help plan and keep track of resource usage, hard to keep everything in my head
@shut arch people who can build big, should, my laptop is jsut too shitty so i had to make do with what i have
shut arch
i feel you. my pc isn't really a potatoe, but i know exactly how 15fps feels.
manic aurora
@crude girder great idea on the chart. How do you guys go about production? Ik keep reading about busses and stuff but dont have it clear how to go about. IS the idea to produce like stuff all over the map and consolidate all finished base products over a main line to a central storage which then distributes the stuff to a big factory?
crude girder
Produce base materials in a central locations, then send them off to remote sites for production
Then ship all end/building products back home into a nice consolidated mall/storage area
shy mason
So if i were to do a principle component analysis ( aka reduce production to as few base materials that then could be made into anything), what materials would I use to make everything else. So far rubber, steel pipes, wire, quick wire, and quartz have their spots cemented on the main bus line, still trying to figure out the rest,like what level of plate / frame to get to, as they really are just building material and only need reinforced plates for crystal oscilators and not much else besides frames, cements only needed for silica alt and encased frames.
*and the bot needs to look for the word steel before p word and know to ignore it....
valid meadow
Not much better :-P
In French, "pipe" is actually a slang word for the... oral pleasuring of a male.
wind spade
maybe that's why the bot is banning the word "pipe" 🤔
crude girder
Just block dyno
wind spade
sssh don't tell them
pseudo jay
Why is pipe a special word anyway?
wind spade
because it's epic
it's just an ongoing meme, that people want pipes and devs don't really plan to add them
shy mason
surprised trains aren't a special word by now...
valid meadow
That makes me think of playing games like "Codename" with a bunch of bilingual people. It's so hard! You can't use the word, or a derivative, but sometime you're thinking in the other language, so you just say the word that is the exact translation, which is wrong too!
glacial hemlock
Because "but will it have pipes?" comments went viral at the weekly-key begging youtube comments.
wind spade
and also we already have pipes
glacial hemlock
and basically if one pops up, I will certainly give it a like.
- Has 2 meter diameter pipe
- Went into it
- connect it to some stuff and power on
- ride in the pipe like hyperloop
wind spade
belts > hyperloop
valid meadow
Belts on belts > belts!
glacial hemlock
lol
wind spade
belts > lol
valid meadow
LoL > DotA 2! (Running away now that I started a fight)
wind spade
also
anything > overclocking machines > trucks > screws
glacial hemlock
well, screws > alt plastic recipe. Yay!
glacial hemlock
yeah, forgot.
pseudo jay
What do you think is the best combination of alt recipes for supercomputers?
wind spade
all of them lol
some of the most efficient in terms of total resources consumption
whole (long) table to play with, you can sort by materials by clicking on them, or hide rows using the eye button at the end of each row https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/alternate-recipes?preview=lmjQYo7Zpq
costs are for 1 supercomputer
warped cave
did they change the item values for Silica in Supercomputer recipe?
I used Greeny's calculator which said I need 90 silica/min into 2x manufacturers making 6 highspeed connectors/min, when in fact i need 120 silica/min (60/min in each)
wind spade
@warped cave that's correct, you need 120/min. Where did it say 90/min? Are you using the rounded up settings?
warped cave
I used the normal settings, Its probably my error though, I wanted to calculate what I needed for all the components apart from Computers, so I input what it said I needed separately (3.8 AI limiters/min, 5.6 highspeed connectors/min and 39.4 plastic/min)
wind spade
if you share the build (use share button in menu), I can tell you if that's an error on my side or something on your side
warped cave
I added Supercomputers too for reference
Interestingly, adding High-Speed Connectors on their own (2 machines) it shows 120/min, correctly
wind spade
where does it show you need 2 machines? I see 1.5 machines, which is 90 silica/min
or here
warped cave
Ahh okay, sorry - I didn't realise that was the amount needed for 1.5 manufacturers
glacial hemlock
The 3rd combination is quite good.
warped cave
When I round up what I need I obviously forgot that had affects upstream
wind spade
no problem. You can always check if the recipes are correct here: https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/items. They are taken from the same data, so if you see something wrong in the items tool, then the recipe is wrong on my site
yeah, if you build 2 manufacturers, you either need to have more production or underclock them to match (or leave it be as it is, it won't harm much)
warped cave
Ahh I see, that's useful thank you!
Yeah, I might just leave it be, I need another Oil refinery anyway, not sure I have space for another constructor making silica
shy mason
still debating internally on how to make/transport silica and quartz crystals, the alt silica recipe is useful for low / maxed quartz nodes, but limestone availability is pretty limiting range / node wise to make it happen, plus the pain of assemblers vs constructor lines.
wind spade
we have tons of limestone. I doubt you will run out of limestone before you run out of quartz
shy mason
I know, it's just a pain to get a belt / truck route to move it
wind spade
build a few extra belts to increase max possible production? gimme!
vast sonnet
zenith cove
Tier 9 is rocket boosted maglev trains. Vehicles only provide physics impulses. Might be able to traverse the map with a well timed jetpack bump from a train.
The wiki calls tier 9-10 propulsion. This needs to happen haha
shy mason
oh great, we are going to need to make ion jet engines for the next space elevator, those are going to be fun to make from turbo motors.
still plinth
There's supposed to be teleporters later I believe
crisp dock
Seriously? I keep having to start new factories across the map with every update. I was kind of hoping that this would be the last experimental before the completed game. Not that I'm upset that I'm getting great content, but I just wish I could be confident in my efficiency.
still plinth
??? There's so much content not implemented yet like all the quantum machines
patent bough
so uhhh i seem to recall admins discourage discussing unreleased content so uhhh 😶
zenith cove
They specifically discourage discussing material either found in edited saves or otherwise found in game files. Things that were in the game in alpha, or mere speculation is not mentioned. Rocket-boosted mag-lev trains are speculation. What a particular segment of the game is called "propulsion" is not necessarily unreleased content. It is speculation. I am discussing the meta of cross map travel via physics collisions
midnight ginkgo
if you have a coal plant, oil plant and nuclear plant and you draw less than your max output does all plants consume equal parts power?
wooden rune
the game won't be complete until next year, so there willl surely be a few more experimetnal versions before that @crisp dock
crisp dock
All of the power plants seem to only consume resources at the percentage power is being consumed.
midnight ginkgo
but is it shared equally?
crisp dock
I mean ya. 50% is 50% weather it's a fule generator or coal
midnight ginkgo
wish it would save the nuclear plant for last
crisp dock
I disagree because other things require coal and oil where only one thing so far consumes uranium.
midnight ginkgo
true but i'm just concerned about the waste
wind spade
@zenith cove straight from the rules:
We do not allow unlocking content that has not been released and thus, discussion of unreleased content/unlocking unreleased content is strictly not allowed.
zenith cove
Build a plant of 240 industrial storage containers. You, unless you are at max production with max nuclear power, will have a minimum of 137 hours of free time. Is speculated content unreleased if it will potentially never be released?
wind spade
unreleased content basically means any content that may appear in future versions I guess
anyway @midnight ginkgo if you just build like 3 storage containers for each plant, you should have plenty of time
fierce ruin
Greeny I can tell you that there is no longer unreleased content in the game for EX so basically that will no longer be a problem soon
still plinth
My bad, was just trying to say to Busta that there's supposed to be a bunch of planned content still
zenith cove
I mean, if my comments regarding rocket-boosted mag-lev trains get deleted, they're confirmed @wind spade lmao
zenith cove
@midnight ginkgo 240, just stack them as high as possible lol
wind spade
@fierce ruin that doesn't make the content not-"unreleased"
midnight ginkgo
i didn't want to stack but sounds like maybe i should XD
wind spade
@zenith cove why 240? that should depend on number of plants, not some random number
fierce ruin
Only the content released is all that you can do now, the Devs removed the rest
wind spade
I know, but that doesn't allow us to discuss the other content
midnight ginkgo
maybe he has 80 plants lol
fierce ruin
Yeah the other content does not exist as far as I am concerned
wind spade
it does. It's just not in the pak file
zenith cove
240 ISC's gives you 137 hours of time before filling at maximum fuel rod production currently possible at maximum power draw. If you prepare for everything, you can't go wrong. I prefer to not have power shut down when waste eventually get's backed up lol
@wind spade
fierce ruin
So then it doesn't, we don't have access to it so it does not exist until the Devs say it exists
wind spade
that's not how it works. We are forbidden to discuss anything that's not yet in the game. This is info I got from devs
midnight ginkgo
my max consumption is 14GW's but i have 69GW's... maybe they won't produce as much waste
zenith cove
@fierce ruin I think in this particular instance, knowledge of the thing is necessitated for discussion of the "unreleased" content. If you are aware of the content not currently visible and discuss specifically that... you are going against the rules
fierce ruin
Basically unless you can play with it by normal means then the content is not real and hence cannot be discussed
wind spade
@zenith cove max possible power draw (using all nodes, no alternate recipes, using all resources, overclocked miners to 250%) is somewhere around 300-400 GW. That is less than half of what we can produce in power (power limit of nuclear is 1010GW). I see no reason for stacking 240 containers for 2 power plants.
zenith cove
but rocket-boosted mag-lev trains are not even likely content @fierce ruin lol
fierce ruin
🤦
wind spade
still, this is #math-and-meta , we discuss here current content and it's efficiency. Even if it's ok to discuss that, it's offtopic here
midnight ginkgo
he only has 2 power plants?????
fierce ruin
I have 20 of them
wind spade
no, but @zenith cove was like "build 240 containers" even before he told us how many plants he has
fierce ruin
With 20 of them Greeny how many storage containers should I use?
zenith cove
@wind spade 1010 is max nuclear? I was pretty sure it was 700 with the maximum of 1200 uranium on account of mk3 miners and mk5 belts
midnight ginkgo
60
zenith cove
... and 2 normal nodes
wind spade
3 normal nodes
zenith cove
oh, well the map website needs an update lol
wind spade
1800 uranium
zenith cove
So, technically 1050 GW max... unless there is something else preventing that
Well, less preventing and more restricting
wind spade
@fierce ruin I mean, the number should depend on number of reactors. I generally recommend 3 ISCs per plant, it's reasonable amount, can be stacked nearby without the need of building dedicated storage somewhere. One container is 80 hours, but only if you draw all the power, which you don't. So at least 100 hours, probably close to ~130-150 hours per container. Which gives us around 400-450 hours worth of time. So you should be fine even with 2 containers, but hey, the cost to build 3 isn't that high. And I assume, if you spend another 400 hours on a save, you will need more power, so you are probably going to rebuild it / build new one somewhere else anyway
midnight ginkgo
i like how this guy thinks
zenith cove
I mean, if you build your storage as a manifold, it is expandable when needed anyways
wind spade
but why would you do that if you are already building for the rest of your playtime?
also, if you stack 3 containers, it's still expandable 🤔
wind spade
lifts
fierce ruin
Thanks Greeny, It will be a dedicated area but glad to know it does not need to be a huge area
wind spade
in worst case, you can just disconnect the uranium/rods belt from it and build another plant in a differnet place. But 3 containers shoudl really be enough
fierce ruin
Looks like the Dunes get a purpose for me now
dim thicket
Okay, I continued from that 8/7 rant I had. I spent a while making straight lines of known length, and seeing how many parts could fit on it. I got this:
NumOfParts = floor(0.833Length + 1.12)
It's not exact. I can't create a single line that works for all cases, but this one is very accurate - I'm thinking within 0.03 of the length. I can't explain why a single line doesn't work, I assume it's game weirdness.
An item takes about 0.833m of a belt. It then hangs off the front by 1.12 parts. That's right, a part can hang about the same length as a part.
I found if you can fit a belt exactly such that the overhang of the last belt merges two parts together, the belt will get confused about which part should be on it. Taking an item off the belt will cause the items on belt counter to go up by 2, causing a duplication glitch. I'll check more into this. It can be done with a belt that goes 11m sideways and 11m up
patent fractal
Lets say I build a 1000MW power grid, but i'm only using 300MW of it. Is it still consuming all the resources of a 1000MW usage, or does it scale down resource usage automatically?
fierce ruin
It scales to the power you using
dim thicket
A generator will burn the resource slower. If you're using 25% of your max, coal or whatever lasts 4 times longer in a burner
patent fractal
Thank You @dim thicket and @fierce ruin , although in reality I guess it doesn't matter since all resources are infinite.
dim thicket
@fierce ruin
It's been assumed by many that 1 part takes 1 m on a belt. It's clearly not if you count the numbers on a belt though. I thought it was much closer to 7/8, but it's actually very close to 0.833 parts in a meter.
Also items hang off the end of a belt, adding a constant length to every belt. This is why items "snap" at a conveyor pole
fierce ruin
Okay that makes sense and I have also noticed that
feral dew
@dim thicket I rederived my accurate belt latency equation, and found that length completely crosses out, so I guess that deriving that with the idea that L = 1 wasn't problematic. I'll rederive some merger equations and see how well that matches the actual numbers, or if it has any effect on merger math to begin with
dim thicket
Oh sick what equation is that?
feral dew
it's something that I've had and have talked about for a very long time now, but I never bothered posting it anywhere
(f')^-1 = (f)^-1 + (E-n)(g)^-1
besides the notation which isn't at all what I use.
f' is the real output frequency of a belt. f is the max output frequency of a belt, g is the input frequency of the splitter, n is the decimal portion of (g/f)
E is one plus the number of items that are put through the splitter after the output belt becomes free, not including the one that enters it at the end of its period
It's actually through this equation that I got the experimental basis to say that Mk1 belts are bugged, but I haven't done any experiments in the new experimental version to tell whether that's still true or not
oh, and I completely forgot since I haven't used it in ages, but the merger math that I used just so happens to be time based... and length is irrelevant there as well. I guess I may never be able to cross-check your 0.833 part length
dim thicket
I just used known lengths of belts (Pythagoras for the win) and saw how many parts fit the belt. Like I said, duplication glitch for certain lengths, like a √[11² + 11²] belt.
I'll have to figure out the equation! That's pretty cool.
feral dew
Really, it's only useful for simple cases, but recently I found a bit of a something where I might be able to apply it to splits that usually wouldn't work and would back up the input belt.
fair cliff
How would I go about dividing my 3 mk4 belts into 32 outputs evenly?
feral dew
an injected manifold
you have a single belt as usual, but after a suitable amount of machines, you merge in the other belts
fair cliff
Ohh cool. So if I want 45/min on each output I would split belt 1 into 10 parts, then feed part 11 with belt 2, then combine belts 1 and 2 for outputs 12-21?
And so on?
dim thicket
Is even necessary? For many applications, each of the outputs fill and force an even output
fair cliff
That is true, It dosen't need to be perfect, however 1 belt will feed 10.6666 outputs, so I need to carry that 0.6666 to the 11th.
tough shale
Any good tips at debunking this spaget
feral dew
some paper
tough shale
Bruh
glacial hemlock
@tough shale manifold.
Rip manifold is pretty easy, 1.5 smelters in, 1 assembler out. Then underclock the excess
onyx plaza
I haven't played experimental yet, so I don't know how many more products need to interact in tier 7 and tier 8? But factorio tends to favour the mega base because you need to share products around many different processes, with one huge main bus.
I've been attempting to setup my first main bus style base, but I find I'm running into serious loading issues for other players connecting in just due to the amount of belt and products on belts which have to be visually loaded. I imagine this is something coffee stain will continue to work on but I'm looking for some feedback if its more a problem I'm having or an across the board problem, and whether I'm better off doing remote processing in order to have less things within the visually loaded area
feral dew
that's nice, but this isn't factorio
Satisfactory doesn't really benefit from the mega base, or the bus.
crude girder
Modular bases however, 👌
mental mist
And sattelite bases
onyx plaza
So maybe arbitrarily, but lets say I wanted to setup a process to make 10 super computers per minute how would you look to setup something like that up to avoid the mega base as much as possible?
feral dew
modular bases
wind spade
find a few nodes you need for that and build the factory there (from raw mats to SCs)
mental mist
Modular factories and trains👌
onyx plaza
You do realise miners and pumps aside, with no overclocking thats 314 machines
it might essentially only be making supercomputers but thats still more than large enough to cause the loading issues im describing
whether or not you decide to call that a "mega base"
wind spade
I just counted it and it's around 150 machines only, including miners and pumps
feral dew
I don't really understand what you're complaining about
onyx plaza
mental mist
Sc's with no alt recipes....Madness
onyx plaza
apart from that requiring experimental
mental mist
I barely use standart recipes any more ..those that have alts that is
onyx plaza
you cant do that silica recipie
wind spade
you can have alternate silica (sorry, I forgot to put that in)
mental mist
Which is better anyway
wind spade
^
mental mist
I use it for my aluminum line😍 😍
onyx plaza
Did you make that flow diagram yourself?
feral dew
alright greeny
onyx plaza
cool
feral dew
that spaghetti's a tad bit indecipherable
empty hemlock
fixed it
feral dew
take notes @wind spade
wind spade
withouth grouping it's easy
wind spade
easy, clean
feral dew
you didn't even utilize one here, how lazy.
🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥
wind spade
3d visualization? oh wow
feral dew
Actually, I've got a question that I may have asked in the past
wind spade
pick the one with bigger ||boobs||
feral dew
I've realized that I won't be able to progress with my current splitter equation since everything is derived from items in = items out. That's only one relation, but I've got two or more unknowns
so, I've been trying to expand my packet interpretation to try and get another, but I still can't figure out what the heck a splitter does.
wind spade
I doubt even CSS know what the splitter does
feral dew
Whether it splits a packet from a machine into three different lines, or whether a packet terminates at the splitter and 3 more packets are made.
I guess it's a semantics sort of deal
but when describing things mathematically it's really important
Kind of silly for me bringing up something like this ins #math-and-meta , I know
crude girder
It's probably made by one obscure programmer in a back room
feral dew
one of Jace's slaves, we know
wind spade
crude girder
They don't...interact...with him much
feral dew
if you listen really closely in the videos that jace puts out, you can hear his distant howling
crude girder
I heard more of a chanting, a silent but continuous one
feral dew
sometimes the camera shakes, probably from when he's destroyed his nth computer in frustration and hopelessness
crude girder
Sometimes you gotta give up your humanity to achieve higher knowledge
This is now canon
feral dew
Coffee stain will do anything to increase their E3 presence
crude girder
By feeding the poor guy like 40 Madman's Knowledge?
feral dew
I wonder how many copies of satisfactory that one guy has been forced into buying with his meager paycheck
I think that they probably have some gurus that prepare the organs of good programmers in a particular way
so he can absorb their knowledge more easily
crude girder
I can taste the prions in the air
pseudo jay
I think whoever made the splitters read the darkhold
wind spade
spreading the knowledge
glacial hemlock
Gonna love 8x1
patent bough
What I wanna know is do 8x1 take less material cause if so I know what I'm building bridges out of
glacial hemlock
Not sure unless i open the game, which shld be done after 20 hours. Now i gotta sleep
still plinth
From what I saw in some streams no it's still 6 concrete
crude girder
8x1...?
Is that in metres or foundations?
Do not inclusive or me thanks
Nvm, scratch that, it's just a normal foundation but 1m in height
Which means I can refine the height calcs of all buildings...hehe
patent bough
Nice
Could also mean being able to set up some ceilings with more precise clearance
tough shale
If i were to manifold everything in here with mk2 would it be efficient
patent bough
If you want it perfectly efficient, round up the # of machines but underclock the extra machine so it acts effectively as a fraction of a machine like the diagram shows. E.g. 50% for 0.5 of a machine etc.
Or round down and overclock one if you like wasting power shards
Anyhow a manifold will be fine after some time to saturate as long as you don't consume more than you produce
Actually you already have slightly more iron than you need (240 instead of 233) so that'll help
feral dew
manifolds distribute with preference to earlier machines. Even if your input is less than all of the machines need, all of the machines that should run from that given input will run smoothly, while the last few have too few parts. Rather than every machine having too few