math-and-meta

[oblique hollow]

Afaik yes it can

[ionic sapphire]

diagonal refinery

[median heath]

Oh ye of little faith.

One of the BPs I have to show you is for Aluminium and it has a built-in VIP junction in the BP with 3 Refineries.

[ionic sapphire]

immediatly block this guy

[median heath]

Just making food atm.

[ionic sapphire]

hes using vip junctions

[median heath]

Yes. Block someone for using a mechanic that works...

[vast jungle]

I think my first Alu setup also used a VIP... one that stopped working one update later. So I never used them again

[ionic sapphire]

its a joke, im not cobalt

[median heath]

If only 😏 you used 😉 joke indicators

[oblique hollow]

VIP is a bug and i hope they fix the junctions someday

[median heath]

Only if they fix hypercannon bug.

[vast jungle]

as long as they don't "fix" train so you cannot drive them I am okay ^^

[median heath]

I agree to your terms.

Re-fix hypercannon bug. Fix VIP bug. Leave trains as they are.

[vast jungle]

I know people have lots of fun with the cannons, so they should stay in the game

[ionic sapphire]

fluids being arbitrarily restrictive is kinda silly
like we can build space elevators, but not a priority fluid merger
yes, its probably made like this as a challenge, but its still silly

[vast jungle]

I just personally prefer trains for travel

[vast jungle]

you can just build the Alu setup without a VIP... its not that difficult. Its more a matter of what you prefer

[median heath]

There's a new way to do VIP in 1.2 as well 😁

[oblique hollow]

T junction

Doesnt count as a new way tbh. Just decorational variant

[median heath]

||If that is short for Truck Junction, sure?||

[oblique hollow]

Oh right trucks lmao

[median heath]

It's the 1 VIP method you would approve of 😭

[oblique hollow]

But isnt that technically also just train station priority input

[median heath]

No lockout, smaller space requirement.

[vast jungle]

TPL (truck priority loop) is more compact

hmm... even more compact with Factory Carts?

[median heath]

Can't be used in 1.2

[vast jungle]

🙁

[mint coral]

I think ive landed on turbo diamonds in the Blue crater.

im avoiding rocket fuel there and this will remove the temptation

[median heath]

Ionized my beloved.

[mint coral]

i will be doing that

but it think that'll be in the spire coast. I have yet to research it though

[median heath]

West Coast all day for me on that one.

[mint coral]

west coast is full. I have the oil well left and thats it

[median heath]

Delete it and replace it with Ionized 😛

[mint coral]

I can free up One normalbnode that way. but i do not wana delete the fuel barge. I really like it

[median heath]

Porkalo would have deleted it 😭

[fallow cove]

that zone is in the map?

On the playable map

[ionic sapphire]

doesnt look like it

[oblique hollow]

Nope, it isnt

[fallow cove]

okay thx

bro I'm like 150 metres below water level

[robust tulip]

how do you do that?

[fallow cove]

do what?

[robust tulip]

go underwater

without automatically going up

you said you were 150m under water level

[fallow cove]

this is a cave I think, I was looking for MAR

[robust tulip]

oh so you're not acc in water?

[fallow cove]

no, I was talking about I'm so down, like below water level

[robust tulip]

oh okay thanks

is there any way to build underwater?

without it being a pain that you can barely see?

[fallow cove]

idk

[oblique hollow]

Not really

[limpid vapor]

Hey @dark sequoia maybe you have some ideas

[dark sequoia]

Yes building underwater is easy

Here is the most recent picture I have of my underwater city

[median heath]

Much visibility.
Very able to see.

[dark sequoia]

I didn't make the game

[median heath]

This was their clarification 😂

[dark sequoia]

ahhhh makes sense now

[median heath]

😁👍

[dark sequoia]

Yeah, champignon, the best way to see underwater is to downgrade to like update 3 before they added the harsh color filter

or you can use the console command to remove the filter. But it's not ideal and it's pretty janky.

[median heath]

If you have a ladder and can park yourself right at the waterline you can sit between the 2 filters and see clear as day.

But the above water filter will cloud you every so often as the waves go up and down sometimes.

[harsh coral]

I'm at the recycled rubber step and don't really know how to make the plastic to make rubber that makes the plastic https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=Fa5BPoXiZWDwqMxhUEBi

[median heath]

One sec.

[fickle cipher]

Recycled plastic and recycled rubber recipes make a loop, yeah. Each one takes 6, combines with 6 fuel, and outputs 12 of the other

Which you can then keep adding fuel to

[median heath]

As for the kickstart Plastic to get it running, just hand-feed a stack or 2 into the system.

[waxen mantle]

Soo what is the use case for leached ingots? Where you rushed to nuclear and are hardly using any sulfur?

[harsh coral]

Kk Ty

[median heath]

Leached Iron? None that I can see.
Leached Copper/Caterium? When you have Iron nearby that you can use to print Sulfur.

[waxen mantle]

Oh right the converter, seems like kind of a waste of SAM though

[median heath]

What else are you spending SAM on?

[waxen mantle]

Ficsonium

I kind of hate this save though, thinkI'm proibably going to restart it

[median heath]

That's, a choice.
And if you're making that choice, then yes - Leached has no value to you.

[waxen mantle]

I guess I can see the convenience at least

[median heath]

I personally don't see a useage 🤷‍♂️
Iron is Basic
Copper is Alloy
Caterium is Tempered or Pure

Only time I am printing sulfur is like... Instant Scrap.

[robust tulip]

aight thanks

[vapid gorge]

if you want to over flow waste acid to ores?

I assume they added it in so people had a choice other than package and sink

[light wind]

Okay I have an issue

I have a double side setup where more sides are supposedly the same

I have 6 machines placed like this :

199.5--R--199.5
199.5--R--169.5
199.5--R--199.5

I ahve two belts, one is running at 780/min, the other is at 390

The total consumes 1 167 / min, my total maximum input is 1 170 / min

But my brain cant process how am i supposed to distribute the things

it just doesnt work xd

Actually i make ti work

By writing it xd

[waxen mantle]

The rubber duck method wins again

[tranquil ember]

I'm building more power, is it worth doing turbo blend fuel? or should I just go back to turbo heavy fuel?

[median heath]

Turbo Blend will give you more MW per oil.
Turbo Heavy is simpler and faster to set up.

So whichever you consider more "worth" at the moment.

[tranquil ember]

definitely need more mw right now

def more complex though

also dont wanna dismantle the old one

[prisma kraken]

turbo heavy is pretty bad for making a lot of power. the other two recipes (default & blend) have trade-offs depending on whether you value sulfur or oil more

i'm personally a fan of turbo blend over default, but both are pretty good. I could draw up a comparison if you'd like

[tranquil ember]

I wont say no, though Im currently building blend. working with some awkward numbers and two different setups.

Ive got an old pre blender setup using most of my sulfur here

[prisma kraken]

would you like the comparison to hold oil or sulfur equal?

[tranquil ember]

I think my limit is sulfur here, Im in the blue crater. Lots of oil but only 450 sulfur atm

[prisma kraken]

gotcha blended tf likes multiples of 200 sulfur, so i'll normalize to 600 sulfur/min

[tranquil ember]

this is my old setup using the pure sulfur, and the other two are what I mathed out using the last 450 left of sulfur.

obv not complete

[prisma kraken]

this is what the numbers look like

[dawn quartz]

im not too sure on how fluids work so idk if this is killing my powerplant
anyways the idea here is that when the bottom pipe fills up it will start to fill the top pipe
Is this stupid or will it work as intended?

[prisma kraken]

maybe? it violates rule #1 of satisfactory piping though: keep pipe networks simple & small

[prisma kraken]

note that the required power is also different. the %yield from blended tf is in general a little bit better

anyway, if you have a big dilluted fuel power plant already, default tf makes more sense since you can just add some refineries to make whatever boost off of it you want, but if you're building a new plant from scratch, i definitely would favor blended tf

we totally need a leached concrete recipe, lol

[tranquil ember]

I dont actually have diluted fuel sadly

I assume I prob should get that

[prisma kraken]

if you are doing turbo blend, you kind of want that recipe so that you aren't dealing with the packager logistics for dpf on top of what is already a pretty complicated prod chain

[tranquil ember]

do I even need packagers?

[prisma kraken]

if you are using the refinery recipe for dilluted fuel, the recipe takes packaged water + liquid hor & outputs packaged fuel. the blender recipe takes 2 liquids & outputs a liquid

for both recipes, the inputs and outputs have the same ratio & they're roughly equivalent in power draw if you factor in the needed packagers with the refinery recipe

[tranquil ember]

I do have diluted packaged fuel, is it more efficient then?

[prisma kraken]

i think i just anticipated your question 🙂

both are 1 hor + 2 water = 2 fuel as the ratio. the cycle amounts differ

[tranquil ember]

ok so if those are the same, I assume its better than default (which is what Im using for basic fuel)

[prisma kraken]

as with everything else in the game, 'better' is subjective.

the default yellow fuel recipe actually has the highest yield, which means that when you're just starting on oil power, you can make more power from it quickly and bootstrap larger power builds, but overall, dilluted fuel will maximize the power because, even at a lower yield, you're still making so much more of it to offset the losses

[vapid gorge]

this is probably kiling your flow yes

[vapid gorge]

clock your machines to output the HOR amounts you need in the pipes initially, then feed dedicated sections of machines

[dawn quartz]

oh okay, will do that
ty!

[vapid gorge]

no prob! basically with clocking you can always group machines/belts/pipes into whatever you need
Even if you're semi forced to have some awkward belts/pipes, you can build for those pipes and then clock and merge THOSE outputs into whatever groupsing are convenient for you

[tranquil ember]

@prisma kraken got it working, and was messing with some catwalks,

[limpid vapor]

whats the max output of a drone port (loaded with mk6) if drones are constantly hovering over it?

[vapid gorge]

there's no lock out so 1200pm

you'd almost certainly want to be transfering higher stack items though

[limpid vapor]

i am thinking... coal 😄

i guess thats not really high

[vapid gorge]

it might ot be possible with stacks less than 200

iirc it takes a full minute to land/take off

[vast jungle]

yeah, transporting a MK6 belt of screws over drones sounds like a fun hell

[vapid gorge]

and if they only deliver 9 stacks of 100.... well that's only 900 pm

[limpid vapor]

ahh, i will just have to use two ports then

just considering it as an option, i need to source a lot of coal

[vast jungle]

Drones are nice to deliver "small" amounts of items into the middle of nowhere, saving you building a huge train station... but not sure if they are good for mass transportation, especially for raw goods

[limpid vapor]

i use a few to deliver 600 sam to my trigon factory xd

i have kind of boxed myself in with how i build rail, its not always feasible

i am planning on doing most of it by train, just that if i get tired by the end i can close that gap with drones

[vast jungle]

I think my next run will be "randomized"... because I noticed that I tend to fall into the same patterns and distributions of factories, because I like to have "most" of my items close to each factory

and I don't want (e.g.) my plastic/rubber again on the West coast, just because it feels natural and easy to reach by train 😄

[sharp lion]

Would def recommend
Its such a small thing but it does change the way u play by quite a bit

[median heath]

I keep it fresh by forcing a rule that once I have built a factory dedicated to an item in one location, I am not allowed to use that location for that item in any subsequent playthroughs 😁

[royal compass]

quick question, will this work as intended? I have 3 pipes of 480 that need split into 8 refineries. Each refinery requires 180 pm

[median heath]

Don't think about pipes in terms of belts.

[vast jungle]

better make it 9 refineries and underclock one of each tripple so they consume 3x480

[median heath]

8 refineries is more than fine.

[royal compass]

8 * 180 is 1440 iirc

[median heath]

Your math is fine.

You just need to know that pipes and belts are completely separate operations and the terms don't transfer.

Junctions are not splitters nor are they mergers.

This is how I would do it.

[royal compass]

hmm, alright

[vast jungle]

you still need to make sure you don't need a 600+ flow at any place... maybe just a linear pipe feed at the ends and in the middle, with 4 refineries left and right of the middle?

[median heath]

On belts, items go where directed.
In pipes, fluids go where they can.

So having looped systems that allow freedom of flow will give you better results in distribution.

[royal compass]

ah

if it matters, the inputs come from pipes that are higher up

[median heath]

Even if doing one long line with all Refineries to one side, I would still loop the pipe from the end back to the beginning.

Examples:

Or at the very least:

[royal compass]

one other thing, the refineries make 105 water, so my current solution is to combine 6 refineries together, drop the 600 down and have 30 carry on down the line, I have a feeling this will not work

[median heath]

Delete all Valves and Buffers from your system.

[royal compass]

I have no buffers, but why the valves?

[median heath]

Because they either do nothing or cause issues.
They never help.

[royal compass]

huh, alr

[median heath]

Has been extensively tested.

They are good for decoration though.

Buffers' sole proper use-case is fluid trains, but those were rendered obsolete by the addition of the mk6 belt.

[royal compass]

I have a couple in my fuel plant and my rubber plant and they seem to work?

[median heath]

Then they are in the "do nothing" category of operations.

Buffers are genuinely just really large pipes with extra potential to cause issues.

And we already have pipes with less issue-potential. 🙁

[median heath]

This can work, but it is better to have it dropping out from 2 points instead of 1.

What is the overall design if I may ask?

[royal compass]

like the pipe network or what its for?

[vast jungle]

still waiting for the "no issue" pipes...

[median heath]

Like what product is being made?

[royal compass]

alumina scrap using the electrode scrap alt

and sloppy aluminia

[median heath]

Nice.

[royal compass]

thx! :)

[median heath]

I am partial to Instant, because it makes the water part so much simpler 😄

[royal compass]

oh yea, I just have a bunch of petro coke sitting around, only reason I use it

[median heath]

[median heath]

Ease of making Coke is why I am seriously looking at Tempered Caterium.

[royal compass]

I did the pure caterium recipe for my main base cause I already needed 9k water. With the aluminum, I used coke due to making an absurd amount for coke steel and I have like 6k left over. Most of that is waste product from my powerplant.

[steep tapir]

This felt special without the context

[median heath]

Hmmm... if power is creating "waste" coke, you could have just turned it into more power by feeding the coke into coal gens.

[royal compass]

which I am also doing xd

[median heath]

https://tenor.com/view/unlimited-power-star-wars-gif-10270127

[royal compass]

feels like it

[pastel fox]

This is what I’m talking about with having the smelters underground on a recourse node and you put a miner at the top of it

[prisma kraken]

why are you storing ingots?

[pastel fox]

You don’t gotta store em, you can sent them straight to a crafter but it’s just the smelters all being hidden and not taking up space

[dusky bronze]

factory floor of doom and despair

[limpid vapor]

thats similar to my aluminum waste water strategy, wasnt that bad honestly

[dusky bronze]

i think the worst i had was when i had to place like 300 refineries for pure caterium ingots

[median heath]

Power Shards say hello.

[dusky bronze]

didnt have the power for that

[harsh coral]

The math just to me doesn't make sense I'm at the recycled rubber part and just don't get how the fuel divides https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=nUCTUFsCZbabNEgGPOMn

[gleaming dust]

So I am trying to understand - I have 10 refineries for fuel but my fuel is not unloading. I have 20 Fuel Gens Set up. Yet for some reason my fuel just sits in the refineries maxed out. I am using MK2 pipes for the crude > refineries and for the fuel > fuel Gens, Ive rebuilt pipes/refineries/Fuel Gens. Am I missing something?

[vapid gorge]

overhead images of your pipe layouts are needed 🙂

[gleaming dust]

Ok let me see what I can do

[vapid gorge]

photomode makes it easy, press P

[gleaming dust]

Ive added and removed fluid storage a couple times to see if it made a difference but I can't even seem to get it to balance and just run. When I was doing 6 > 12 I didn't see any issues.

MK 2 at th end of the first floor to pump to second floor.

[vapid gorge]

the buffers are likelyi making it worse

[vapid gorge]

remove the buffer
and don't split your manifold over two floors

create 1 dedicated pipe for each floor

[oblique hollow]

how much per min are you making

[gleaming dust]

600 Crude > 400 Fuel

[oblique hollow]

600 crude is more often the issue.
you are feeding from one end

avoid that. move the 600/min oil input to the middle of the refineries

[vapid gorge]

well the ysaid their fuel is sitting in the refineries
so tehre's definitely flow issues for hte fuel

[oblique hollow]

if the fuel is sittin in them i would just slap down a pump, remove the buffer and see what happens

[gleaming dust]

This is my last refinery in the manifold.

Ill remove the buffer split the pipes

[royal compass]

Did a little bit of testing with my design and it seems to work ok for now. The only issue is that I don't have enough bauxite to use the left over water and its causing everything to backup. I setup a coal generator and its keeping everything working slowly.

[oblique hollow]

does the fuel pipe only supply the bottom floor for now?

[vapid gorge]

essentially don't use fluid buffers in a system and have fluid go from point A to point B
no splits , especially over multiple elevations

[oblique hollow]

honestly i dont see a single pipeline pump here and the fuel gens at the top look dry

so thats my bet

[vapid gorge]

I mean that may also be an issue yeah xD

[gleaming dust]

I have an mk2 pump feeding the top floor.

[oblique hollow]

where

because from the look of it it either doesnt work or fluid might not even reach it

[gleaming dust]

its only 32 meters lift

Bottom left. But I am going to reroute through the second pipe I started making

[oblique hollow]

it seems the fuel isnt actually leaving at the top

[prisma kraken]

you're breaking a cardinal rule of pipes in the game. Keep all consumers of a liquid pipe level

[oblique hollow]

the pipe up seems full but it doesnt actually move well

[prisma kraken]

what happens is gravity causes the bottom ones to always have priority over the top ones and that leads to backflow instead of even distribution

[oblique hollow]

is there a floor hole

[gleaming dust]

So feeding the top first would probably fix the issue

[oblique hollow]

should.
but i have a sneaking suspicion

[prisma kraken]

same problem, fluids flow down first

[oblique hollow]

try bypassing the floor hole

just clip the pipe through the floor

[prisma kraken]

what will fix the issue is if you break up stuff into a pipe going to each level before any consumers

[gleaming dust]

Right so if I make the second pipe it should probably alleviate the issue

[oblique hollow]

or top to bottom. that should just work

doesnt matter it fluid flows down first if the pipe starts at the top to begin with

[prisma kraken]

yep. stripping stuff down to the most basic: all consumers for a pipe network should be level

i believe that gases do not suffer the same issue, but haven't probed that hypothesis

[oblique hollow]

gasses ignore gravity completely, they just fill pipes

[gleaming dust]

I'll mess with it and see if the gravity situation doesn't fix it.

that was helpful to think about the situation, will report back.

[prisma kraken]

I don't know how the game's simulation code works, but it seems that whenever there is a choice as to where volume should flow, the lower altitude pipe segment is always chosen. it always causes an underrun at the end of the upper pipe

probably some building tricks can special case a solution, but the key word there is 'special'

[vapid gorge]

but make sure it's 2 different pipes, in that last images it's just 2 pipes that are still merged

[gleaming dust]

Yea this is what it looks like now

Its a little hard to tell but I split it 6 > 12 one pipe 4 > 8 in the other.

[vapid gorge]

cool, maybe get rid os this little bit too, always good to clean it up

[gleaming dust]

cleaned up and had to clean up my resin as well since it was starting to overload the manifold but things are holding steady for now. Thanks for all the help

[robust tulip]

can it be divided by 45?

like factors of 45

[violet stag]

I just ran the numbers and without slooping I will need to use about 75% of all the available SAM just for ficsite trigons

[wheat nymph]

yo gng, which one

I can't decide

[vast jungle]

you can also use a tree instead of a loop

[wheat nymph]

very true and that's what I had in mind originally, actually. Hence feeding plastic made from polymer instead of rubber made from polymer (which would give 675 plastic at the end instead of 650)

the rubber version doesn't have the neat 1:2 ratio

but then I got lazy

[vast jungle]

you can easily use the resin to rubber conversion and still get to the desired output

[wheat nymph]

yeah:

oh mb I meant resin, not polymer

but the rubber one gives odd ratios for the plastic/rubber refineries

it's close to 2 but not quite

and the plastic one is exactly 2, hence better for a tree layout

[vast jungle]

I typically build my factories in output multiples of 270... that gives nice ratios

[wheat nymph]

but tree layout sounds tedious

in multiples of 270? hu

I was wondering if there was a magic number that gives mostly nice ratios, ty!

[vast jungle]

start with 3 refineries making HOR... from the byproduct you get 30 rubber

turn 20 of the rubber into 40 plastic, turn 10 of the plastic into 20 rubber... afterwards you used up 30 fuel (from DPF or DF) and have 30 plastic and 30 rubber

now select your final product... keep it, use the other 30 for the "tree"

take 30 into one refinery to make 60, take 60 into two refineries to make 120, take 120 in four refineries to make 240... add the 30 you kept and you got 270 output

no looping involved, but stages of "doubling"

you will need 240 fuel for this, which is exactly 4 DPF loops

(all at 100%... if you overclock multiply every number with the factor)

this "30 rubber and 30 fuel" to "30 rubber and 30 plastic" was the magic for me

@wheat nymph hope that all made sense...

[wheat nymph]

I'm fighting with modeler to visualize what you said right now

got it

interesting, hm

[vast jungle]

the nice thing is that you can use the same layout for plastic or rubber... you just have to switch two belts after the 30/30 producing... and flip the recipes of the three doubler stages

[vast jungle]

but of course building a loop is also fine

[wheat nymph]

I need a better blueprint for refineries

the ones I made are tedious to use

that is the true limiting factor of my experimentation

your idea is tempting. I do also need rubber. But I don't want to tear down my refineries for the third time and start all over again

[vast jungle]

I think I made 4 MK2 BPs that are most of the factory... one BP for the 3 HOR producers and the single Rubber maker... one BP for the DPF loops... one BP for the 30/30 maker and the first two doublers (have to look) and the last one for the final doubler?

[wheat nymph]

hmm

[vast jungle]

#design-and-architecture message

but maybe you should hop into a "creative" (zero building cost) copy of your world and experiment a bit with finding the layout you like

[wheat nymph]

the building cost is not the issue

just the tediousness of flying around and connecting everything over and over again

only to realise 10 minutes in you misaligned something somewhere

and have to scrap it all

that's the one thing I really don't like about the game loop in satisfactory

[vast jungle]

just skip the connections at first... just place the Refineries and see how they fit

[wheat nymph]

in factorio I could just select and move things and wait a few seconds and everything was fixed

I really miss that here :/

SMART mod at least made things a lot less tedious so that helped but yeah for now I should stick to rough sketches so to speak

and once I am pleased with that double down and hope I did not miss anything

but I am always missing something 😭

[vast jungle]

I think my "rubber/plastic solved for me" factory went through a dozen iterations... and will most likely go through another one because of autoconnecting BPs when/if I do another run when 1.2 becomes stable

[wheat nymph]

Ironically, I just realized something

going back to my paint sketch: last night I built the left version. This morning I did not like it and tore it down to build the right version

BUT I BUILT THE LEFT ONE AGAIN

[vast jungle]

it happens

I had a blender based variant of the whole think made from just two MK3 blueprints... with decorative walls around it and vertically stackable

with the "new" autoconnect feature, it should be possible to make this "2-click and done" 😄

[wheat nymph]

I don't like the autoconnect feature

it tends to connect to things I don't want it to connect to

and by the time I clean that up I would have manually set up belts faster and better

it also uses too many UObjects imho

where I would place 1 belt, the autoconnect feature results in 3 belts

the idea is great but IMHO it's just trying to be a less intimidating version of the SMART mod which just does it better

with that mod it is actually a true one click operation to add another refinery identical to the one next to it with the exact same belt and pipe connections

the game feels drastically different when it is this easy to just extend your factory

anyway - I am now watching my plastic / rubber loop and it's giving kovarex enrichment process vibes (for those factorio veterans)

[vapid gorge]

smart mod is extremely limited in layout control of pipes and belting.

and there's zero chance I want to belt and pipe teh same way for everything

[wheat nymph]

when you place multiple identical buildings in a row you don't?

this is a done deal for smart mod

yet it was considerably more frustrating with the auto connect feature and just built in blueprints

[vapid gorge]

yeah that's pretty restrictive. I don't use either anymore but with autoconnect you can actually design pipe and belt segments pointing in the right spots to connect to the next pretty easily

[wheat nymph]

I might need to do more experimentation with auto connect then

so far I found it kinda meh though

[vapid gorge]

you have to incorperate it into the design with how you envision the units working together just need little bits sticking out here and there 🙂

[meager kettle]

found it more useful for tracks than belts. but its nice for pipes

[wheat nymph]

it's just very frustrating for me to plan ahead on that level of detail tbh

[vapid gorge]

if you're trying to do anything but basic stuff that tends to be how you need to do it 🙂

[median heath]

If this were the case, it would just be the 45 rule.
Not the 45-81 rule.

[robust tulip]

but it's called the 45-81 rule because of the fact oil products should be multiples to 81, no?

[median heath]

I am now confused.
Because if you know that, why are you asking if the 81 side of the rule goes into 45?

[oblique hollow]

If you wanna be picky, oil can be done in multiples of 27 too if you accept single place decimals instead of no decimals (that was the guiding rule behind 45 / 81 I think?)

[median heath]

Oil in 27 gives you product in 81.

[oblique hollow]

27 product should give you 9 oil then

[median heath]

27 product gives you xx.yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy_ though.

[oblique hollow]

I think it was xx.y

I would have to check my calc for that again

[median heath]

You can punch 270 into Tools with Recycled Loop if you want.

[oblique hollow]

Ok yeah with non repeating decimals the smallest multiple was 2.7 oil in

[meager kettle]

600 crude -> 800 HOR + 400 Resin. 400 HOR -> 800 Fuel. 400 Resin -> 200 Rubber. 200 Rubber -> 400 Plastic, 400 Plastic -> 800 Rubber, 200 Rubber -> 400 Plastic, 600 Crude -> 600 Rubber + 400 Plastic. Wheres the 45-81?

[oblique hollow]

Which is just 27 oil / 10

[oblique hollow]

Check the machine numbers

This is about machine relations and their clocking

[meager kettle]

6 to 12?

[oblique hollow]

600 oil in requires repeating decimals in the recycling refineries

If you do certin ratios

[meager kettle]

i'm not seeing it

[oblique hollow]

Also why 600 plastic and 400 rubber

Thats not a 1 to 3 ratio, which recycling can usually do

[meager kettle]

usually end up with some left over fuel which isnt enough to do a full one

[oblique hollow]

Then include that again

[meager kettle]

i am, which is why i get both rubber and plastic in the end, not just one

[oblique hollow]

45 81 isnt about getting "just one" out either

The total sum of rubber and plastic out should be 3x bigger than the oil input, no matter the ratio.

Thats when you used it to its full efficiency without dumping fuel or resin

[meager kettle]

o wait, its 1600 fuel not 800. so 200 rubber -> 400 plastic (200 fuel) -> 800 rubber (400 fuel) -> 1600 plastic (800 fuel) which is 200 fuel left, so 200 plastic -> 400 rubber with that. makes 1400 plastic + 400 rubber form 600 crude.

[oblique hollow]

Now find recipes that use those numbers without repeating decimals.

45 81 is about avoiding most of that by being a kind of guideline

Its not a strict must, just a way to do production

[meager kettle]

theres no repeatign decimals there?

[oblique hollow]

1400 plastic is not a neat number to work with in subsequent recipes

[median heath]

Yeah, which is 8.1 product out.
And the rule was put at the first integer for ease of use.

Because the smallest part of the 45 half was actually 5.625.
But "5.625-8.1" rule didn't have the same punch 😁

[meager kettle]

neat or not, still not seeing the 45-81 there

600 crude to 1800 total product is a 1:3

[oblique hollow]

45 81 doesnt mean "every machine includes this ratio by default"
its just a way to ensure doing production without decimals

[median heath]

45-81 is not "this is the sole way to get no repeating."
It is a "this is a guaranteed way."

If you find other paths, that is GOOD. It's just a way to find a path with minimal effort.

[oblique hollow]

wait huh why is it so blurry

there we go

[median heath]

That 33.3333333_ hurts my soul.

[robust tulip]

i'm asking if you can use factors of 45 or 81 for their respective products

[meager kettle]

thats not how i'd set it up, but w/e

[robust tulip]

such as making 20.25 oil products/min

[median heath]

Very yes.

[median heath]

Genuine: How did you set it up?

[meager kettle]

i made refinery batches to work in units of either 200 or 400 fuel+input

color coded em too, black = making rubber, blue = making plastic

[median heath]

How many total Plastic do you have and what are they clocked to?

[robust tulip]

"w/e"?

weekend?

[median heath]

Whatever*

[robust tulip]

i see

[meager kettle]

clocked to take 50 in and output 100

in batches of 8

[median heath]

Neither of those answer the question 😭

[meager kettle]

chill just working it out in my head

clock speed 166% i thin kit works out to

[robust tulip]

you mean 166.66_% or just 166.0%?

[median heath]

If you have them outputting 100 from a Recycled recipe that's automatically an infinitely repeating decimal.

[meager kettle]

80 refineries total for plastic all in all

would be repeating, 50/30

[median heath]

Yes.
That's the point of the rule.
It eliminates repeating decimals.

[meager kettle]

final production isnt repeating tho

its just the clock speed

[median heath]

Yes.
And given clock speed v cycle time is the sole metric the game itself cares about - that is why we solved for it.

The game does not operate in items per minute.

Everything is done on cycle time * clock speed.

Now, does 0.0001 level of precision MATTER?
No. But it bothered me.
So math.

[meager kettle]

cyclespeed doesnt look rounded tho

it just says 7.2s

not 7.1999999

[median heath]

🤦‍♂️ the UI lies to make you feel better.

[oblique hollow]

btw,
#satisfactory message

[meager kettle]

also doing 12/5*3 comes out to exaktly 7.2

[oblique hollow]

using math formulas uses all decimals

they just dont show any after the 5th

[median heath]

Yeah, I saw that the other day.
Seems they changed the truncation at some point.
So this is all moot 😂

[meager kettle]

so theres no issue to using decimals :p

[median heath]

It still bothers me 🤷‍♂️
Which was the whole reason the math was done in the first place.

[oblique hollow]

well now we can all rest assured that 3 x 33.33333 is as good as 100

[median heath]

And while 100/60 may give you full precision in the one machine.
We don't know how it works when you copy/paste the computed settings onto multiple other machines or if you need to manually type it in to every single one.

[oblique hollow]

i think greeny could verify that

as greeny asked in the first place when looking through values saved in machines

[median heath]

Jason could verify it too 😏

[oblique hollow]

maybe you can just use SCIM for that

[median heath]

I shall dub him: Jason | The Great Verifier.

[meager kettle]

well if what jason says is correct then doign 100/60 in one machine would have the full number there, so copying it shouldnt matter

since you can type in 100/60 in the clock speed field

[oblique hollow]

the code should copy the actual value

the ui is a different story

[median heath]

The code...

The code on these glasses indicates the AllSpark is 420 blazin miles from here.

Sorry.

[robust tulip]

if you like having nice integers in your factory so much, mind showing me your factory? i'm kinda struggling to not get them and some inspiration would be nice

[median heath]

What item are you making?

[robust tulip]

as in your schematic in tools or modeler or whatever

[robust tulip]

atm im trying to make a nice clean number of heavy encased frames because i'm sick of constantly running out and having to manually make them when i'm building stuff

i don't want to make an obscene amount, just enough so i can run it into a DD and keep me supplied while building

[median heath]

What is your target total amount?

[robust tulip]

anywhere from 3-20/m, but i'm not too picky

[median heath]

I need you to be picky.

Give me a single number.

[robust tulip]

sorry

let's go with 10

[median heath]

So I would tell you to change that to 11.25 and watch the magic.

[robust tulip]

okay

change that to 11.25

[median heath]

Tools hates using Copper for anything and I don't fully understand why 😄

@robust tulip if you take out the Steel Rod option it cleans up even further.

[meager kettle]

What about stitched plates and molded pipes? :p

Oh nvm it's iron pipes

[median heath]

I am asking greeny about certain weights atm.
Because Tools seems to value.... Limestone...

As if it were some rare commoditiy.

[wheat nymph]

Tools also loves to avoid using Caterium

it rather takes something else and throws it into the converter to get caterium out of it

[prisma kraken]

i think the weighting preference with resources to use is based on amount in the world. since water is effectively infinite, it'll always win

[median heath]

Yeah, you have to force it to do what you want sometimes.

[prisma kraken]

i don't agree with that as a criteria, but it makes sense

[median heath]

But like... it HATES copper, and yet will suggest Iron Alloy before using Basic Iron...

[wheat nymph]

I want a "I do not plan to use every single available resource on the map" mode

[prisma kraken]

that's a little strange to me

[wheat nymph]

it also loves to produce entire chains with -0 input

[meager kettle]

Ai slop code at work prob :p

[robust tulip]

this is why i use modeler

[wheat nymph]

I asked it for circuit boards with all alt recipes and its solution was to mix in -0 of the quartz based circuit boards together with the caterium based ones

[vapid gorge]

because you can't uncheck the recipes you don't want it to use?

[robust tulip]

you've given me the skeleton, let me see if i can give it the meat in modeler

[median heath]

He either added or is adding the ability to set your own "weights" to resources.
So if you don't care about copper usage you can set the weight down and the tool won't try to save on it.

[wheat nymph]

I keep going back and forth between both tools

[median heath]

Which will be very helpful for locally sourcing things.

[wheat nymph]

oh neat

where is that option?

[prisma kraken]

idk, the tool is good for what its good for. I wouldn't take its advice without some revision in constructing a factory, but it still does a lot right and can help a great deal in planning

[median heath]

Becuase if you're sticking to 1 area for a material, and there's an extra node of something, you can set the weight down to make sure you use the node.

[median heath]

Can't find it, is one of the things I asked.

[wheat nymph]

kk

[robust tulip]

do you reckon this is the work of the infamous "vibe coders"?

[meager kettle]

He's said as much, using Claude to code

[prisma kraken]

what i find tools really lacks is the ability to easily figure out what you want to build in a location based on available resources. the workflow for iterating through permutations and trying different options is very slow and cumbersome

[robust tulip]

who's "he"?

[meager kettle]

Greeny

[robust tulip]

is he the guy who made tools?

[wheat nymph]

I thought most of Tools was made before claude was a thing

[meager kettle]

Yes

[median heath]

Yes.

[wheat nymph]

tbf for developing a web app I'd probably resort to using an AI too

[prisma kraken]

pretty sure AI tools existed before satisfactory as a game did 😄

[wheat nymph]

eh

[median heath]

afaik he is required to use Claude for his actual job.

[wheat nymph]

what's the easiest way to get to 1000 tickets? I'm at about 400-500 now IIRC

[median heath]

what's the easiest way to get to 1000 tickets?
Activate AGS.
Give yourself 1000 tickets 😏

[wheat nymph]

ok what's the second easiest way 😛

[meager kettle]

Sink overflow on all production

[wheat nymph]

I am sinking the space elevator parts

[median heath]

Open the internet.
Go to SCIM.
Upload your save.
Give yourself 1000 tickets.
Download save.
🙃

[wheat nymph]

I knew I should have asked for the 3rd easiest way directly

[median heath]

😄

[wheat nymph]

ok jokes aside, I gotta scale up my production or else it will take forever to get the remaining 500 tickets

[median heath]

-# Open the internet.
-# Go to SCIM.
-# Upload your save.
-# Give yourself 10,OOO BWDs.
-# Download save.
-#

[trim marlin]

yo

[wheat nymph]

what is the relation between pain-to-make-item vs. how many points it gives in the sink?

[median heath]

But yes, scale up production.

[robust tulip]

i'll spare you all from having to read this, but all you have to know is that this power plant leaves me with 400 poly resin and 400 compact coal as byproduct that idk what to do with, what would you guys do with it?

[wheat nymph]

but WHICH one

[meager kettle]

I just put overflow sinks on all lines. Had 1k+ tickets before i was even halfway with phase 4

[median heath]

https://tenor.com/view/every-single-one-of-them-steve-kornacki-msnbc-all-of-them-everyone-gif-19744458

[wheat nymph]

hm

[robust tulip]

i was making about 1m points a minute when i accidentally made 200 modular engines too many and sunk em all at once

[wheat nymph]

that's what I did with my storages of space elevator parts

but that doesn't last long obviously

[robust tulip]

are you trying to get the nut statue?

[wheat nymph]

yes

[prisma kraken]

the poly resin should be made into rubber, but you might want to tailrace some of it into fabric first (that'll back up eventually - you don't need THAT many filters). As for the compacted coal, the best use for it i've found is turbodiamonds. you can use it in either making the tf for the recipe or in steel cannisters to package the tf for the accelerators

[wheat nymph]

My plan is to build something and then go exploring for the remaining hdds so I get that achievement, too

and by the time I am back hopefully I will be closer to those 1000 tickets

but I do wonder what is the reasoning behind the sink points you get for each item?

is there a formula of power / resources / space required to produce it vs the points it awards?

[limpid vapor]

resin can be useful for filling gaps where you need a small amount of rubber or plastic, or you could make some fabric and automate gas filters if you havent already, compacted coal fits well into a turbo diamonds setup

[wheat nymph]

is it completely arbitrary? etc

[robust tulip]

never used a filter in my life - i just prefer to bomb the shit out of whatever is making me need a filter in the first place

[limpid vapor]

its no big loss just sinking both though

[prisma kraken]

some analysis exists on the awesome sink page of the wiki

[meager kettle]

Pretty sure it's based on materials used and quantity

[wheat nymph]

ty

[robust tulip]

i think the most bang for you buck is the most advanced thing you can create - either biochemical sculptors or ballistic warp drives

[prisma kraken]

that analysis is in some ways wrong, but it is a good starting point and all the math was done on the backs of napkins, but it is a good starting point

[median heath]

Imagine automating Project Parts 😏

[wheat nymph]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/AWESOME_Sink#Farming_points

that is precisely what I was looking for

[meager kettle]

like a wire is 6 points, and a cable is 24, so you get twice the points making cables to sink

[robust tulip]

what? 😨

[median heath]

Have never, most likely will never. 😄

[prisma kraken]

you could probably do a masters thesis on the computational algorithm you use to min/max points in satisfactory, so any posts around done by armchair engineers aren't going to be complete in accounting for every permutation of recipe or sloop strategy, etc

[robust tulip]

you HAVE to automate them

thats kinda the idea

[median heath]

No?

[prisma kraken]

you set up box factory lines for them and cheese the game that way

[robust tulip]

well yeah

[median heath]

A machine has to make them.
You do not have to automate them 🙂

[robust tulip]

box factory?

you mean little factories spread out?

[median heath]

Behold.
Project Assembly "automation."

[robust tulip]

i see

[median heath]

Overclocked and somered.

[prisma kraken]

which works well unless you are doing 100x elevator

(the way the game should be by default)

[median heath]

Somering reduces resource cost by up to 16x depending on which Phase you are in.

[wheat nymph]

I doubt that

at the end of the day it is mostly just a linear optimization problem

that topic is very well researched

[robust tulip]

its only slighty less automated than mine

[wheat nymph]

I don't think there is much room for a master thesis

[prisma kraken]

yeah, well, it actually isn't and that's the thing that makes it complex and why we're always complaining about sftool's wierd choices at times

[robust tulip]

supposed to make 100 acus in 1h 40m - took over 7

[wheat nymph]

I said mostly for a reason

[median heath]

Yellow lights hurt my soul.

[prisma kraken]

in set theory, an item is either in a set or isn't. we're talking set theory here. if there are cases where linear programming can't solve the problem, the problem isn't a linear programming problem

[robust tulip]

its only multiplication, addition, division and subtraction. just.. a lot of it

like a lot a lot of it

[robust tulip]

the most efficient machine i saw in this factory was at a whopping 54% uptime

[wheat nymph]

I'm not taking that rage bait

[median heath]

Why do you hate me? 🙁

[prisma kraken]

yeah, the master's thesis would be how to tackle reducing the computational complexity of brute forcing every permutation by creating some generalized rules that follow some algorithmic constraints and stepping back and looking at it as a bigger problem.

[robust tulip]

ladies and gentleman, we have a new record

[median heath]

😭

[robust tulip]

is there really a way other than to brute force it?

[prisma kraken]

if you can create an ordered numbering of all possible factory layouts, yes

i believe that that is possible to do, so with that premise, yes

[robust tulip]

theres probably more of those than there are grains of sand on earth

[prisma kraken]

you assume infinite time with that. the number of permutations is inductively infinite, so of course working through all permutations will be infinite, but an algorithm should exist.

[robust tulip]

...or you could spend a few hours in tools/modeler and brute force it

[prisma kraken]

where the interesting maths with it all actually lie is in trying to pair down that infinite set of factory layouts to a finite useful set

[prisma kraken]

it gives you 'good enough' results, so the argument is more of a pure maths thing. Where the pure maths actually come screaming back at you with a vengance is you cannot prove that tools/modeler has provided you with the optimal answer

[unique cypress]

Fairly sure that tools does give you the optimal answer, but for a question you might not exactly be asking

[prisma kraken]

no tool exists to calculate what you want to produce along with the power needed to run it

[unique cypress]

SF Optimizer

[prisma kraken]

i mean to design the factory for power along side the factory for production and produce exactly what the factory takes

that requires a different sort of algorithm

[unique cypress]

? SF Optimizer can include the required power production

[prisma kraken]

ehh, i'm not very familiar with that tool, but it requires some serious horsepower to run an optimization pass on that all and iterate toward the best design

[wind spade]

It was done with linear optimisation

[wind spade]

SFTools beta kinda can

[wind spade]

That's more lack of configuration for optimisation goal rather than linear optimisation beeing bad

[wind spade]

Tools give you most "optimal" answer based on its constraints (weighted resources)

[wind spade]

Again, not really. It's still linear optimisation

[unique cypress]

it really doesn't
I mean you're not gonna run this on your 10 yo phone but it'll finish in under a minute on any modern-ish PC

[prisma kraken]

sftools does a great job for what it does. not worth arguing the other points.

[unique cypress]

optimizer does everything tools does and more but you do you

[meager kettle]

so does pen and paper :p

[plain slate]

Might be dumb but I’m tryna to produce caterium ingots on ps5 with 3 smelters merged together and need to input 13.33 as underclock for 40 per minute but it’s not letting me and rounds itself either to 13.35 or just 13.3

And that’s with typing in the numbers

[meager kettle]

use five decimals? 13.33333

[harsh coral]

It's not a solution but I doubt it would matter to it orr put everything to that lower number

[prisma kraken]

you can enter '40/3' into the box & have it do the math to max precision for you

[plain slate]

Nope

[plain slate]

On ps5 too?

[plain slate]

I doubt having 0.5 more ore in per minute probably doesn’t matter but it bothers me

[harsh coral]

Fair enough

[plain slate]

I need to run at 88.889%

But idk why the ps5 version does this

[meager kettle]

might be a bug? take it up on the QA site

[harsh coral]

It's probably console as a whole

[plain slate]

But other decimal numbers work for some reason

Just not 13.33

[harsh coral]

It's really annoying on console to get numbers right

[plain slate]

I think if you put in a decimal that’s lower then 5 in auto puts it as 5

1.23 turns into 1.25

[meager kettle]

can you do two smelters and clock em up to 20?

[plain slate]

Lemme see gotta drive back

[meager kettle]

or do four and clock down to 10

[plain slate]

I love this little tractor lol

I’m still new how would I merge 4 together

[harsh coral]

Merge what?

[plain slate]

Just 2 mergers?

4 smelters

Might just thug it out and accept the extra 0.05

[harsh coral]

Oh yea just place a merger on them

Make sure your conveyers have enough speed to manage the output

[plain slate]

You think it’s necessary to make the 4th or nah

[meager kettle]

merge like

[plain slate]

How much could 0.05 really hurt me

[plain slate]

This is a manifold right

[harsh coral]

Um I make 4 mergers purely not to confuse myself but no it's not needed

[meager kettle]

yes

[harsh coral]

Yes

[plain slate]

Nah the 4th smelter

[harsh coral]

Oh if there overclocked then he's

Yea

[plain slate]

They are underclocked

120 ore into 3, 40 in each

[harsh coral]

U need the input on the smelters to match the output of the miner

[plain slate]

Well 40.05 if I’d want to be perfect I’d need 4 smelters

[meager kettle]

thats what hes trying to do, just that ps5 doesnt seem to allow the specific number they need

[harsh coral]

Oh

[plain slate]

In ur opinion is it worth to make the 4th or just accept the math failure

[meager kettle]

i'd try just by being curious to see if it works

[plain slate]

I’ll brb

I’ll try the 3 setup first

They work at about 90

Efficiency

75 now

[harsh coral]

Random question how many hours are on your save just curious

[plain slate]

50

[plain slate]

About a day

[harsh coral]

Kk

[plain slate]

Even with the caterium smelters being inefficient my quick wire makers are at 100%

So it’s fine

[still hedge]

This should work, right?

When it comes to water input / output

[robust tulip]

you'd have to show a bird's eye view or something

but if it is 3 water extractors leading to 8 coal generators (which is what i'm guessing it is), then it should be fine

but i would pause a few of the coal generators about a minute after turning on the extractors

[still hedge]

yeah, I think if anything can be wrong is where the inputs are

[robust tulip]

just so the pipelines can fill out

[still hedge]

they are at the 4th gen, between the 5th and 6th gen, and between the 7th and 8th gen

[robust tulip]

if it's not working, it's because you're running three water generators into mk1 pipes

water generators generate 120m³/m of water

[still hedge]

yeah

[robust tulip]

so 3*120= 360

but mk1 pipelines can only move 300m³/m of water

think of it like conveyor belts

this is like trying to move 150 items on a mark 2 conveyor

[still hedge]

I see

[robust tulip]

have you unlocked overclocking yet?

[still hedge]

yup

[robust tulip]

okay

what i would do in your situation is build 4 water generators

and set them all to make 90m³/m of water

link the generators up in pairs

and then lead them to the coal generators

but don't link up the 6th and 7th generators for the pipeline

basically just make two separate smaller pipelines

@still hedge here's a shitty diagram of what i mean, where the W stands for water and the C stands for coal generator

[still hedge]

Nah it's cool lol

[robust tulip]

aight

[still hedge]

Thanks

[robust tulip]

feel free to hmu if you've got any other questions

[plain slate]

Yo

I’m producing most basic things iron rods, plates, reinforced plates, wire, sheets, cable, rotors, smart plating, quick wire, limiters, and steel pipes and beams

How would I make a factory for versatile

The frame and the other thing I need

[harsh coral]

Sry wdym?

[plain slate]

How would I go about making a factory for the versatile framework and automated wiring

[harsh coral]

Honestly If I were you don't worry about them

[plain slate]

Nvm I needa make modular frames first

[harsh coral]

Make a smaller factory to make like 1 or 2 per minute maybe but there not really needed

[plain slate]

What about for phase 2 tho

I need 1k

[harsh coral]

Yea Make a factor for em and wait ig

I thought U were further and wanted them for the love of the game

[plain slate]

Nah

I’m tryna learn how to do things on my own now and not videos

[harsh coral]

That's very good

I only used videos for architecture

[plain slate]

Only got this far cause of em

Now I need to learn by myself starting with this new factory

[harsh coral]

Itl be fun

Fumbling around in the game with no guidance

[plain slate]

Yeah I know better now

Hey but I still got like 200 more hours

To learn

[harsh coral]

U got as long as you have the game installed it's infinite

[plain slate]

You know that place in rocky desert

Where the coal is

[robust tulip]

just leave your old factory running while you do other stuff

[plain slate]

I don’t have a factory for those yet

[robust tulip]

have you considered using an external software to plan your builds?

[plain slate]

No

[robust tulip]

are you willing to?

[plain slate]

Probably

So I don’t fumble around for ages

[harsh coral]

Satisfactory tools it's an app too amazing stuff

[robust tulip]

i would reccomend satisfactory modeler

[plain slate]

Both on steam?

[robust tulip]

modeler is on steam

it's also free

[plain slate]

But I’m debating on

Where to build the modular frames at

Since my steel is only being ran by one pure node

And 2 impure coal

[robust tulip]

modular frames don't need steel?

[plain slate]

But they are needed for versatile frameworks

[robust tulip]

well i would just plan out all the raw materials you would need (iron ore, coal, copper ore, ect), go to an area where all of those things are bunched together, and build your factory there

if you have to build a long ass conveyor belt, you have to build a long ass conveyor belt

[plain slate]

Here’s my steel factory

[plain slate]

Yeah learned that the hard way with caterium

Are tractors good or nah

[robust tulip]

wouldn't reccomend

they're decent fun for a few minutes

[plain slate]

Yeah

Can’t wait for trains

[robust tulip]

but most terrains are incompatible

[plain slate]

Tiny Damm tractor always flipping over

[robust tulip]

i remember thinking the same thing

[plain slate]

Uh oh

Hard to manage or what

[robust tulip]

then i realised how much of a ballache they are

so i just make long ass conveyor belts now

[plain slate]

I’ll still try out the trains simply cause I like em

[robust tulip]

yeah

it's a toss-up

[plain slate]

Uh my screens just black on the modeler

[robust tulip]

ig i might try them again when i make a new power plant

[robust tulip]

pure black?

[plain slate]

Yeah

[robust tulip]

try left clicking

[plain slate]

Opens up Java when I play it

[robust tulip]

that's not normal

[plain slate]

Ight something popped up

[robust tulip]

okay yeah

[plain slate]

I’m on Mac

I guess that’s how the shortcut looks ig

[robust tulip]

it's supposed to be a coffee cup

[plain slate]

Ight

[robust tulip]

but not that coffee cup, i mean

[plain slate]

Oh

[robust tulip]

the satisfactory cup of coffee

[plain slate]

Uhm lemme uninstall

And re install

[robust tulip]

<--- this one

[plain slate]

Yeah idk

It’s the same thing does it run on Java

[robust tulip]

not sure

[wind spade]

can also try other planners that you don't need to install 🙂

[robust tulip]

yeah you can try tools

just go on satisfactory tools

[plain slate]

Yeah it runs on Java

That’s why

I mean it works it’s just a little low res

[wind spade]

e.g. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/ 🙂

[plain slate]

Imma just use this

[plain slate]

How can I see if something needs splitters or mergers on this?

[wind spade]

that depends on how you build

you may not need them, or may need them. That's basic logistic solving skill you have to learn, no tool will give you that info

[plain slate]

Alrighty

I’ll let yall know if I can get this modular frame factory working

Probably gonna belt them from far asl away or just make a different steel factory somewhere close to the mod frame one

[plain slate]

@wind spade

[wind spade]

?

[plain slate]

Can I show you my layout and see if my plan will work

I’m producing rods and reinforced plates already so could I just hook up a factory behind it’s containers

To make the modular frames?

[vapid gorge]

hard to tell because cant see everything and there's no numbers but as long as you aren't going over yoru belt speed and you have enough parts? sure

[plain slate]

Let me see my nodes

[plain slate]

It’s 3 pure nodes

[vapid gorge]

different miners and different clock speeds

doing 'math by node' isn't a good idea

[plain slate]

So 360 making screws, rotors, plates, rods, reinforced plates and smart plating

[vapid gorge]

the miner will tell you what it's mining

[plain slate]

All 120 iron

Per min

But 50% efficient due to belt speed probably

[vapid gorge]

ok again, no idea how it's laid out and the recipes aren't on there so really can't confirm.

again, double check you aren't going over your belt speed

[plain slate]

I am

I need to up all these to mk 2

[vapid gorge]

let it run for a bit, if there's a problem work backwards or forwards depending on the issue

if your machine is starving? follow the input backwards

if it's clogged? follow it forward and see where the clog is

[plain slate]

The only part that’s really clogged is the smart plating

[vapid gorge]

as it it has no where to go?

[plain slate]

But do I even need smart plating past this phase

Nah it’s the inputs

[vapid gorge]

every earlier space part is used later in space parts

[vapid gorge]

if it's inputs are clogged either you're making too many parts, or it's outputs are also clogged

[plain slate]

Might be making too many

Since the inside of the one assembler is already full

[vapid gorge]

if you aren't sinking the extra or have extra empty storage it'll clog up yes

[plain slate]

Im sinking the excess of all my lines

I think I’m just producing everything else too fast and the plating too slow

[vapid gorge]

then it sounds like you're making too many of the parts per min for the smart plate

[plain slate]

Yeah

[vapid gorge]

what's the plan you're working off of?

[plain slate]

It’s not a real problem as of now

Wdym

[vapid gorge]

well did you use tools to make a plan?

[plain slate]

For the modular frame factory?

[vapid gorge]

we're talkign about smart plating aren't we?

[plain slate]

Not yet but I have an idea on where to place it

Smart plating is being made it’s just the inputs are clogged I’ve made more than a thousand

[vapid gorge]

sure but did you make a plan for it or just ... kinda build things?

[plain slate]

Oh yeah I did a plan

[vapid gorge]

on tools?

[plain slate]

No

[vapid gorge]

right how many smart plates pm did you mean to make?

[plain slate]

Want me to recreate

Just 2 that’s fine I just needed them for the elevator

It’s not like I need the for anything else rn

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=rt2doo6RaU1utcFXK7BG

[plain slate]

I’m gonna recreate the whole factory for iron to show you rq

To see if my production of the reinforced plates and rods can keep up if I do build a mod factory

Yeah it’s not enough rods per min or plates

To keep up if I do build another factory behind this one

I’m gonna go to some other nodes and build the modular factory there

[trail depot]

Is there any good underclock percent to set coal generators to make their compacted coal consumption a simple [whole number] per minute?

[vapid gorge]

you should be able to tap in the amount of coal pm you want to use into hte machine

but why does it have to be a whole number? and why under clock?

[trail depot]

Because when I divide 400 by 7.142857, I get 56.00000112000002/per minute

[vapid gorge]

... why are you dividing it by 7.14.....

[plain slate]

All I got rn but it’s copied so imma delete this save

[vapid gorge]

`it's fairly tidy? looks good

if you understand it? great

[trail depot]

Because coal generators consume 7.142857 compacted coal per minute.

[plain slate]

I don’t tho

It’s copied

That’s why I feel like I need to restart

[vapid gorge]

oh.. compacted coal? weird but ok
so build 55 gens at 100% and 1 gen at 100.0001%

just so you know, compacted coal recipe effectively just converts sulfur to more coal.

so if you burn 1 coal + 1 sulfur node , the net output of power is basically just 2x coal nodes

[trail depot]

Not exactly. That would mean that the machine would consume 7.5 coal per minute. Close, but not exact.

[vapid gorge]

yeah you have repeating decimals it'll just occasionally dip every few thousand hours

[trail depot]

I don't even know why compacted coal has such a funky burn rate.

[vapid gorge]

a thing you have to accept if you want to burn it.

much easier to just find more coal next to water

[plain slate]

Last thing do you recommend me start again in the rocky desert or somewhere else this time

[trail depot]

Yeah. It's just a waste product from my rocket fuel recipe. Maybe I'll just sink it.

[vapid gorge]

you're not reusing it in the turbo fuel?

[vapid gorge]

it's all a bit of a muchness honestly.
the only zone that really different is northern forest where nodes are a bit closer, but you ahve to build vertically with multiple floors

[plain slate]

A muchness?

[vapid gorge]

much of a muchness

the starting zones are all effectively very similar

[plain slate]

Imma do the plains

Since I’m tired of the desert

[vapid gorge]

the most difference might be like... grassy plains has caterium that's a bit easier to get to than crystal, Dunes is reverse

[plain slate]

I learned a bit from copying but I know it harmed me more than helped

[tropic hawk]

IIRC it was a 50 i/min : 7 Generators ratio

[plain slate]

What do you recommend me learn first

I know basic automation and slightly about splitters and such

[tropic hawk]

that depends, what do you already know overall?

[vapid gorge]

you'll have to get through that again and then get to coal power

automated power is really where things start 🙂

[plain slate]

Basic automation/load balancing

[vapid gorge]

eh, load balancing is totally optional

[plain slate]

But nothing intense

[vapid gorge]

and gets wildly intense to work with the more steps you have to do in a factory

[plain slate]

When I copied that guys build I was so confused how everything worked

[plain slate]

So manifolds are better?

[tropic hawk]

who's build did you copy?

[vapid gorge]

define better
they definitely take up less space and are easier

[plain slate]

Some guys on YouTube

[tropic hawk]

Yesn't. Better is a very controversial term here

[vapid gorge]

but both work at 100%

[plain slate]

But I’m restarting since Idk how half of this works

[tropic hawk]

My recommendation is to not copy builds from others, but feel free to learn principles from others. No point in doing a tutorial to make a project if you don't know why it is that the project works

[plain slate]

I liked manifolds better

[vapid gorge]

its not controversial, you just need to be specific in what you want

[unique cypress]

That's exactly why you don't copy other people's stuff

[vapid gorge]

fair 🙂

[plain slate]

Yeah ur right

That’s why I’m restarting

[tropic hawk]

true, its more controversial when people don't understand that they have to be specific in that way

[plain slate]

They are also more compact no?

[vapid gorge]

yeah people think there is a META, and there isn't

[plain slate]

Yeah learned my lesson there

[vapid gorge]

in general 🙂

[tropic hawk]

you don't necessarily need to restart either, the world is big, so you can just move somewhere else and start fresh over there.

[plain slate]

I wanna go to the grassy area imma restart there

[tropic hawk]

IMO the meta is: Don't use biocoal xD

[vapid gorge]

biocoal is great
the only way you can make uranium rods from pigs

[plain slate]

I feel wrong having that build in the world now lol

[vapid gorge]

or temp ammo factories you don't want to completely automate

[plain slate]

But I can use 3rd party tools right

[tropic hawk]

Grassy Plains are good for learning basic mechanics, but it will force you to expand out past it once you start to get to mid-steel to early oil.

[plain slate]

To make stuff myself

[tropic hawk]

go for it, lots of people do

[plain slate]

Farthest I got in the copy run is basic steel

[vapid gorge]

like planers? sure it's jsut math

like primary school maths mostly. Planners just do it quickly

[tropic hawk]

I recommend SCIM for a map, and Satisfactory tools for planning production (both links should be in the pins here)

[plain slate]

Where would you expand? After

[plain slate]

The map probably super useful to see where nodes are at

[tropic hawk]

up to you. I would say while you wait for things to work to explore the world and figure out where you want to go from there

[tropic hawk]

it indeed is.

[plain slate]

Imma delete the old save so I’m not tempted to go back

Also I don’t like the desert anymore lol

[barren sparrow]

Keep it as a reminder of things you’ve tried

[plain slate]

Too late

[barren sparrow]

RIP

[plain slate]

I have photos so it’s fine

I learned some stuff

Imma skip the intro this time cause I know what to do

[tropic hawk]

just wait until you get to dune desert....

[plain slate]

Is there nothing there or what

[vapid gorge]

just more desert

[plain slate]

Wow the plains is super pretty

[vapid gorge]

lots of iron and coal and stuff

[plain slate]

I wanna expand vertically this time

Maybe

[barren sparrow]

Plains is great for that. Northern forest is great for that, too. Pretty much encourages vertical builds

[vapid gorge]

as long as you aren't in a cave you can build vertically really

[plain slate]

No guides this time if I’m stuck on something I’ll ask here

I’ll let yall know how things go after an hour

[tropic hawk]

once you unlock hypertubes, you can build vertically wherever you want though too

[barren sparrow]

Elevator actually huge early game

[tropic hawk]

also a protip, I believe n opens an ingame search bar where you can look up parts, recipes, and do some basic math too

[plain slate]

I’m on console

[plain slate]

Dude the elevator is so sick

[tropic hawk]

no idea what it is on console (PC master race)

[plain slate]

The first time when I launched phase 1 I was in awe

[plain slate]

I don’t think there’s an option for that on console

I have a keyboard plugged in but I can’t use it

[barren sparrow]

I mean the personnel elevator

[plain slate]

No setting to use it

[tropic hawk]

they only got to basic steel, I think they need to get quartz unlocked along with steel before the PE unlocks

[plain slate]

Where on the map is the plains at

Near the middle right?

[barren sparrow]

Southwest corner

[plain slate]

Ight

Should I go out looking for pure iron nodes or just stick with normal

[vapid gorge]

it really doesn't matter

you can over clock nodes and for most of the tutorial (milestones) you're limited by your belt speed

[plain slate]

True

What I’m gonna aim to do is reserve one node for each of the base things

[vapid gorge]

sure

[plain slate]

1 node for plates one for rods and one for something else

[median heath]

Stop solving forwards.

[plain slate]

Oh ok

Solve as things break or what

[median heath]

Pick your target amounts and solve backwards from there.

If you need only 578 iron from a node, there is no reason to force all 600 out of it "just because."

[vapid gorge]

eh look, it depends on your approach on the tiers

personally, to go up the tiers, I make 1 node of each basic part and smoosh as needed

but if you want practice building specific factories, make some dedicated factories

you can use smart splitters to over flow parts that back up along the stages too if you like]

[plain slate]

That’s one thing I did learn

And send them all to the sink

I feel bad for the power slugs ngl

[median heath]

You're starting in GF right @plain slate ?

[plain slate]

Mhm

[median heath]

Ok so for example about solving backwards:

Rotors take 45 iron ore to run at 100% output.
So in Phase 1 you can pull that needed 45 out of an impure node and call it a day.
Or you can force 60 out of that node and deal with the headache of "how do I allocate this 15 that I don't need?"

[plain slate]

Mmm gotcha

Same concept for underclocking stuff right

[median heath]

It is always easier on the headache to just pick your final target amounts and then solve back to how much input you need.

[median heath]

I overclock the shit out of everything because I prefer the lower building count 😄

[plain slate]

Understandable lol

[median heath]

Why build 60 of something when I can build 24 @ 2.5? 😄

[plain slate]

Smart smart

Rn imma just get the basic things automated

Idk what to get first tho base building or logistics

[median heath]

Ok so pro tip time.

You're on Tier 1-2 right now, right?

[plain slate]

Mhm

[median heath]

Have you done any milestones?

[plain slate]

Nope

[median heath]

Good.

Read ALL of them.
Because there is not a single Phase where I would recommend doing milestones in order.

[plain slate]

Cause some stuff is just more useful

Do I need foundations rn? Nah