math-and-meta

[vapid gorge]

if it doesn't, use this https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1435471624865583215/1435472097773359186/image.png?ex=69115d11&is=69100b91&hm=13829bcb6afefbec8b4fa7269fe6bb6b72218d627768799011a4ace767ffd4a1&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1232&height=960

but with mk2 pipes ofc

[digital wing]

Why? Its a mk2 pipe

[vapid gorge]

because every input junction is a potential spot for back flow

with 600 flow pipes it'll likely stutter your fuel production system.

looping it like this solves most back flow issues. (assuming nothing else is wrong)

[digital wing]

I see

[digital wing]

How do i loop it if the pipe cant make it all the way to the end

Do i just use pipe supports

[vapid gorge]

that's what I do yes 🙂

you'd likely need to delete a few sections of pipes along the way to put the stands up initially

[digital wing]

I’m just gonna delete it all to fix the manifolds anyway

[vapid gorge]

probably a solid idea. Sort out why some of your fuel gens are higher up, and line up the other generators to clean it up

the higher the flow of pipe you're running the more important it is to keep your pipe systems very tidy

[steel acorn]

with pipe manifolds should i keep the pipe tier consistent across the board?

[vapid gorge]

it sometimes helps to have the input pipes be mk1

[steel acorn]

okay, noted

however, im manifolding packagers, should i make everything mk2 or is a 50/50 of mk2 to start into mk1 end okay?

[unique cypress]

Mk2 on the main pipe, mk1 to packagers

[steel acorn]

tyty

[hoary pulsar]

Hello everyone, I'm new to the game, I have a small problem, I just built a coal power plant with 16 central 8 per side powered by 6 pumps that are below in the part below in deep water, the first 6 on each side have no drops with water pressure while the final ones sometimes lose pressure, does anyone have any advice? Do you need a photo?

[vapid gorge]

I'm going to bet you're going over your pipe throughput

how much water can a mk1 pipe move pm?
how much water are you trying to move through each pipe?

[hoary pulsar]

300

[vapid gorge]

and how much are you trying to move?

[hoary pulsar]

I need to low the charge of one extractor?

[vapid gorge]

not sure what you mean by low charge, do you mean under clock?

[hoary pulsar]

360 for side

[vapid gorge]

correct. so you need at least 2 pipes for 1 group of 8 right?

!wikisearch CG

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vapid gorge]

^^^ some simple layouts for coal gens

[hoary pulsar]

The most practical solution is to raise the water even on the other side then, right? As in photo two

And one

[vapid gorge]

well nothing you've said so far makes me think your water hasn't gone high enough

raising pipes doesn't increase throughput

[hoary pulsar]

I can't fly yet let me make a platform

[vapid gorge]

I would have to see clear images of what you're doing

from overhead would be good

[hoary pulsar]

Ps im an idiot I notice now they are 14 generator

[vapid gorge]

well if 6 are working fine then height isn't an issue. its just the pipe flow limit you need to work around

like in the example layouts I shared 🙂

[hoary pulsar]

So I need to litte expand

[vapid gorge]

well you just need a second pipe coming from the 3 water extractors

like this

[dreamy totem]

Don’t judge too hard pipes are confusing ngl

[vapid gorge]

can't see anything wrong at first glance

[dreamy totem]

It’s super annoying rn bc my power is shooting up and down

[vapid gorge]

how long have you had the system running for?

[dreamy totem]

2 days now

[vapid gorge]

can you go into photomode and get a better shot of it pls?

[dreamy totem]

The last like 6 is cutting on and off as we speak

Yeah I’ll try

[upper ravine]

Whats your fuel production & #of generators?

[dreamy totem]

I’ve got 8 pumping turbo fuel w 10 gens

[formal lynx]

how much fuel does all 20 consume?

[upper ravine]

Youve got 1 pipe feeding

[vapid gorge]

what's the total fuel pm you're moving in that 1 pipe?

[dreamy totem]

It ranges

[formal lynx]

it shouldnt

[vapid gorge]

it really shouldn't xD

[upper ravine]

Do you have consistent fuel production?

[dreamy totem]

Ik that’s the problem

[vapid gorge]

how much fuel do those refineries make total

[formal lynx]

if they are always on, how much would they consume

[vapid gorge]

how much is it supposed to make

[dreamy totem]

Making 150 turbo per min

Into those pipes

[upper ravine]

How much turbo does 1 gen burn pm

[vapid gorge]

ok so the first step in trouble shooting - your generators are starving, follow the problem backwards

are your fuel producers clogged?

[dreamy totem]

Clogged as is

As in*

[vapid gorge]

as in stops running because it's output is full

[dreamy totem]

No

[vapid gorge]

then you have a math problem

[dreamy totem]

Constantly running

Well I’m over feeding the gens

By a lot

Supposed to be anyways

[vapid gorge]

if you were overfeeding the gens, your refineries should be stuttering on and off constantly as they would get clogged

[upper ravine]

Then your refineries should be clogged with turbofuel

[vapid gorge]

so double check your refineries, are they flickering yellow?

[dreamy totem]

No solid green

[vapid gorge]

then you've made a big math mistake somewhere

basic turbo fuel recipe?

[dreamy totem]

Each gen should take around 7-8 turbo a min according to online

[formal lynx]

its exactly 7.5/min

[dreamy totem]

That’s only about 80 fuel max a min

Yeah that’s what I went off of

[formal lynx]

so 150/min for all 20

[dreamy totem]

Yeah so math is right on that part

[vapid gorge]

ok so those fuel refineries should be constantly turning off and on

please look at the lights and see if they flicker yellow

stare at them for 30 seconds

[dreamy totem]

But they aren’t lol I’ve been staring at them this whole time LOL

[formal lynx]

could just click on them and look at the uptime

[formal lynx]

has your plant been doing this since you built it, or is it a new problem

[dreamy totem]

since I’ve built it

[formal lynx]

turn off half

[dreamy totem]

I’m watching these lights 😂

[formal lynx]

let the pipes fill

[vapid gorge]

did you under clock your fuel producers?

did you over clock your fuel generators?

[dreamy totem]

No neither

[vapid gorge]

and you've got 6 fuel refineries hooked up right?

[dreamy totem]

I may have found the problem

[upper ravine]

lol

[formal lynx]

oh?

[vapid gorge]

you didn't hook up some of your fuel refineries?

[dreamy totem]

No im undercutting on my turbo production

[vapid gorge]

you mean under clocking?

[dreamy totem]

I’m glad I asked y’all I woulda never noticed this bruh no not under clocking

I’m not giving it enough fuel

[formal lynx]

so you ARENT making 150/min?

[dreamy totem]

Nope😭😭

Supposed to be but it’s starving

[formal lynx]

i thought you said you were overproducing 😉

[vapid gorge]

yeah there was going to be something weird going on 🙂 after following the pipes/belts for trouble shooting? always check the clocking

[dreamy totem]

So what do I do if I’m not supplying enough fuel?

[upper ravine]

Fuel for the turbofuel recipe?

[dreamy totem]

Yes

[upper ravine]

Have less generators

[formal lynx]

figure out how many fuel gens your production can support, and remove the rest. or make more fuel

[upper ravine]

Make more fuel

[dreamy totem]

Not possible lol

[upper ravine]

Do you need that power production from all 20?

[vapid gorge]

I mean, it's less generators or more fuel. You have to pick

[dreamy totem]

Yes

I actually need more gens soon😭

[vapid gorge]

so make more fuel

[unique cypress]

First principle of troubleshooting. Just because the last machines aren't running like they're supposed to, doesn't mean that they're the problem. The problem is always somewhere between machines that are full and machines that are empty

[upper ravine]

Overclocked your crude extractors, add more refineries, increase supply of fuel

[formal lynx]

if you arent making enough fuel to power the generators, then just delete them. its possible

[dreamy totem]

Lemme do that rq see if stuff levels out

[formal lynx]

if you NEED 20 gens, then increase your fuel supply

it's either or

[dreamy totem]

I need more but 20 is fine for now

[upper ravine]

Do the math and figure out how much fuel you need to provide for turbofuel production and build to that with more crude & refineries

[dreamy totem]

That’s what I’m checking rn lol

Also if I wanted to put two oil extractors into one pipe would it be better or does the pipes limit that

Like would mk 1 be valid in that situation?

[vapid gorge]

well like belts you have to abide by pipe limits

so if 2 nodes only make 300 or less? you're fine

[upper ravine]

Depends on how much youre producing

[dreamy totem]

Gotcha because I also have another 8 packaging turbo fuel

What I could do is swap like 4 of those over to my gems

Gens*

[upper ravine]

If I were you I would just not package the turbofuel and use that for the gens

[dreamy totem]

I wanna have some on the side personally

But I am considering taking like half of it and putting it into gens

[upper ravine]

1 packaging turbofuel will be enough for you to use

[dreamy totem]

Got a few to spare😭😭

[formal lynx]

i was about to say "why not just takes screenshots bro" then i saw the "RT" next to your hotbar

[dreamy totem]

Yep 😭😭

I could take screenshots but I would have to download it too my phone takes too long

[vapid gorge]

it's hard to tell, but in the future, keep your pipes simpler, you've got them going everywhere

[dreamy totem]

Idk how to make it simpler yet😭 pipes hurt my brain rn

[vapid gorge]

have a group of machines , Point A, and send the fluid to a group of machines, Point B, that exactly needs it in one manifold

this doesn't look simple 😛

[upper ravine]

Its really the same as conveyer manifolds, just have to work with pipe limits

[vapid gorge]

fluids have extra rules too. Changes in elevation can murder fluid manifolds, but work fine with belt manifolds

[upper ravine]

Figured out why 3 of my coal gens were getting water lol

[hoary pulsar]

@vapid gorge FINALY FIXED

[vapid gorge]

I'm glad 🙂

[hoary pulsar]

1200MW Stable for more than 10m with only one drop for a belt problem

Now I have to make compact formats to extract the minerals

32x32

[vapid gorge]

compact formats?

[hoary pulsar]

Yeah

I don’t know how this work

[digital wing]

I did the manifold and it worked perfectly

[hoary pulsar]

I see is for one click farm

[digital wing]

But when i loaded my save, all the fluids in the pipes broke and the whole system got messed up

[vapid gorge]

... are you on console?

[digital wing]

ye

[hoary pulsar]

Yeah

[vapid gorge]

might be a weird glitch 🙁 did it stabalise after a bit?

[digital wing]

Oh idk who you were talking to lol

[vapid gorge]

you 😛

[digital wing]

Yeh it did, but its nowhere near max capacity

[vapid gorge]

it should get back to normal after a few minutes

[digital wing]

Yeh i just need to wait for everything to fill up i guess

Is there smth i can do to prevent it from happening

[mint girder]

theres one pipe with 300 the rest have 600 in them

[vapid gorge]

sounds like an awful glitch, so probalby not

[mint girder]

and i just run one pipe to 2 blenders then connect the rest to each other to kinda balance each other out? idk if thats right tho

[digital wing]

Its weird because it doesnt happen in my normal fuel plant

[vapid gorge]

yeah don't connect all your pipes together

feed point A to point B , no merges and splits all over like this. especially with elevation changes

[vapid gorge]

might actually just be something wrong with the system then. Overhead shots?

[hoary pulsar]

To know, I have to leave the blueprint projects in the structure or I can delete it after saving it?

[mint girder]

so 1 water extractor per blender? each one takes 225 water/min so thatd be 12 extractors

its weird also one side has higher % uptime and the other is like in the 10-30% range

[vapid gorge]

well more that you want to make groups that are manageble

if each takes 225, you could do 1 pipe feeding 2 with 450 in it

ignore efficiency meters, they aren't very useful info

always avoid interconnecting fluid systems - keep them in their own groups

[mint girder]

well yeah but each water extractor can only make 300/min max

[vapid gorge]

sure, if you do want to make it 1 to 1 that also works

[mint girder]

isnt it all the same system?

[vapid gorge]

depends if that's convenient or not

[vapid gorge]

I mean connecting up multiple pipes to make it one system.

treat each pipe as it's own system

[digital wing]

What are overhead shots sry?

[vapid gorge]

images from over head. Top down view

[digital wing]

Oh right

I mean sure

But all the gens and pipes were completely full

I reloaded, and then they werent

[vapid gorge]

how much down each pipe again?

[digital wing]

600

They are slowly filling up again

[vapid gorge]

yeah you didn't loop it. I wouldn't be surprised if they had started starving before

replicate the loop exactly

[digital wing]

Oh i sent the wrong photo

But it is looped

[vapid gorge]

I mean if those photos are wrong, ok?

but you might have looped wrong

[digital wing]

The loop can just come from a junction? It has to extend slightly?

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure what you mean xD would need to see how you did it

[digital wing]

The second is how i initially did it

Where the it loops straight out from the junction

[vapid gorge]

yeah looks ok. Under clock a few generators and re flood the system I guess. See if you can stabalise it

[digital wing]

Yeh ive just turned them all off

[vapid gorge]

clocking a couple to 50% will also do the trick and is much easier 🙂

[digital wing]

Idk i just want to be sure that all the pipes fill

[steel knot]

How vertical are y’all’s factory design from a logistical standpoint? Like are your supercomputers or turbo motors creating everything from raw materials? Or do you have middle factories for things like heat sinks, crystal oscillators, radio control, etc. I had been thinking of doing the latter…

Or what’s your rule of thumb for whether to make single purpose production lines? Like for nuclear everything is going to be self contained because that’s mission critical. Having a hard time deciding for project parts

[mint girder]

bit late but i got it working now

[shrewd fog]

guys, i need help with setting up rail connection, someone qualified in here to help?

[dusky bronze]

what is the problem

[wind spade]

first describe the problem, e.g. in #1038092680493801533 with images

don't ask to ask

[shrewd fog]

im trying to connect to trains from 2 tracks into one that is connected to station, so 1 train doesn;t bump into another

[dusky bronze]

would you be able to send a picture

[shrewd fog]

i can hop on a call with screen sharing

if that helps

[wind spade]

no, share images and write here

(or in #1038092680493801533 like I asked above 😉 )

[shrewd fog]

yeez

[abstract isle]

In many factory building games I have played before (not well versed in satisfactory, as it only released to console 5 days ago) I have found in my personal experience I preferred vertical designs over horizontal designs - ideally I would think with a game like this you’d want to have the middle ground making the midway crafts with a branch from the top to still retain some items- and same from t2 -> t3 , ect.

[wind spade]

generally yeah, create everything from raw materials

[abstract isle]

Another good alternative is the “bus depot” design in which you produce everything individually in a long horizontal fashion kind’ve like a rail way and less like a platform

But tis only my second day playing so idk 😭 just my 2 cents based on previous games of this nature

[wind spade]

Satisfactory usually plays differently than most factory games

[dusky bronze]

in this situation you'd want to set up something like one of these two

the first one is if you intend for this part of the track to be the "end" of some part of the rail network

[abstract isle]

I think the closest think I’ve played to this from Console was Techtonica

[dusky bronze]

the second if you want to expand the track or want to add a station along pre existing track

[shrewd fog]

thanks, but i'm more in a struggle of setting block/path signals so my idea that i've built works

[dusky bronze]

path signals at the entrance to all intersections, blocks to break up the track however you see is appropriate

[shrewd fog]

i'll try, thanks

[digital wing]

This goes for everything ? Its not worth having a huge production of smth like plastic or aluminium and then training it over

[wind spade]

usually that's more effort and problems than building it separate. Up to personal preferences, but I'd indeed recommend having independent production lines

[digital wing]

I dont mean every component, just things that use less common resources like aluminium

[unique cypress]

if you know exactly what it'll be used for an how much, then it can be worth it. but making something in advance without a plan is generally at least partially a waste of time

[wind spade]

I mean every component

[digital wing]

Yeh yeh, like for instance i want to make a battery factoy, i would want to train over from my rubber/plastic factory so i dont have to bother making it

I make 1k rubber and plastic a minute

[wind spade]

but you had to bother making in in the previous location

[digital wing]

But then i can use it for other factories as well no?

[wind spade]

it's the same amount of machines in the end

but when building it separate, you don't have to centralise and worry about logistics

[digital wing]

So then do you train in the resources for each build instead

Cuz its getting difficult to make some of the more advanced components without turning the map into conveyor and pipe hell

[dawn beacon]

The beauty of this game is greenys way isnt the only way. Run it however you want haha

[digital wing]

This pipe is carrying 600 crude oil up, where it splits into 2 mk1 pipes to feed 10 refineries each.
After the pump the flow rate is super low, but before it the flow rate is 600.

Why is this

[sand epoch]

Just a guess.. the top part is too far for the pump?

[dawn beacon]

Try moving the pump down

[digital wing]

I dont think its a head lift issue

[unique cypress]

why is what?

[digital wing]

Why is the flow rate after the pump not 600

[digital wing]

This seemed to help

[unique cypress]

put a pump at the very bottom

see what it says

[dawn beacon]

I’ve noticed pumps need to be lower than you’d think (or the HUD says)

[digital wing]

Like before the pipe goes up

Or after

[digital wing]

I lied this has not helped

It worked briefly idk why it stopped

[unique cypress]

just because the fluid is moving up doesn't mean the headlift is not exceeded. sometimes the fluid can just go up beyond what it's supposed to

[unique cypress]

on the flat part, before it goes up

always put a pump at the lowest point of your system so you can use it as reference

[digital wing]

Yeh ive done that

Ok i think that has fixed it

Do pumps need to be powered to stop backflow

[unique cypress]

no, but an unpowered pump sets head lift to 0, so the fluid will not go up after such pump

also, you generally don't need to stop backflow

[digital wing]

Do the junctions not cause the sloshing

I dont want it to back up into the machine which is feeding the pipe and cause it to idke

[oblique hollow]

hard to say. make sure the pump isnt too high up initially

more images needed, like where the pipe goes to

[wind spade]

Build near resources it needs

[digital wing]

But eventually you’re going to run out of the combination of nodes

And you will need to start bringing things to the factory

No?

[wind spade]

Yeah, but not that often. Usually like 1-2 resources as most to ship in

[digital wing]

If i make 600 turbo fuel, but dont place enough generators to use it all, will that cause an issue?

Or do i need to be using all the fuel

[wind spade]

probably not, but at that point just make less I guess

[digital wing]

Id rather just make more

[wind spade]

why, if you're not using it?

[raven slate]

I think it'll depend on how you've set it up.

Default/Heavy Turbo: As long as your polymer resin products are being sunk/you understand they won't run at full capacity

Blend: I thiiiiink you'd want to have the three oilingredients on independent lines

[digital wing]

I meant more power not more fuel

[wind spade]

use all the fuel you make. If you want to not build enough gens, don't make that much fuel

[raven slate]

But question: Why aren't you placing enough generators for it?

[unique cypress]

I don't see a reason not to do that

It won't cause issues but just... why

[digital wing]

I ran out of space and didnt know where to put them lol

But i figured it out

64 overclocked turbofuel gens all working smoothly once all the manifolds fill up

Touch wood

[steel knot]

How often do you expand a factory vs just making another one in a new place

[unique cypress]

never expand, always make new one

[wind spade]

expand: never
make a new one in new place: always

[rugged tendon]

My scuffed attempt at using one mining line to make screws, plates, and rods.

[wind spade]

looks fine, though I'd recommend checking the numbers on machines to see if you maybe can build more of some

[rugged tendon]

I wish the building holograms/ghosts worked like Factorio where you can place multiple and plan out in advance.

It seems like here you can only place one hologram.

[steel knot]

That’s kinda what I figured

[digital wing]

for the fuel that splits into 200 and 66, is it as simple as just using a mk1 pipe with a junction?

[crimson moat]

make a group of refineries which output 66.667, merge their outputs, feed them

[wind spade]

either that, or group refineries

[unique cypress]

recycling loop without diluted fuel? ew

but yeah, there really aren't any other good solutions aside from the 2 above

[digital wing]

this is what it gave me lol, i have that alt so idrk why

i have 3 pure nodes worth of oil but i cba to do the math so im just making 3 batches like this

[unique cypress]

you must've disabled something, because D(P)F is the recipe Tools will always use if it's able to

[digital wing]

oh i did have it disabled

fuck that is so much more plastic lmao

[loud ivy]

how fast do splitters/smart/programmable send items through?

[crimson moat]

infinite

[loud ivy]

so they are as fast as the belt connected to them?

[crimson moat]

ye

[unique cypress]

pretty sure they have a limit of like 2-3k/min but that's irrelevant

[proven aspen]

Im making a coal power plant
How do I divide the coal to 15 each node is 60 and I got 3 nodes will I js have split then split again? Best way?

[unique cypress]

!wikisearch manifold

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[unique cypress]

!wikisearch cg

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=cg

[proven aspen]

Yk with this
Doesn't this mean the coal won't get split evenly so sometimes some of the coal gens won't run?

[unique cypress]

if you read the article, you'd know that this is only true for a while, and after that everything will work fine

[proven aspen]

Oh okay my bad
Thanks

[hoary pulsar]

Where is the cave for the quartz here?

The game is saying I’m over the quartz right now

[iron hamlet]

Hello, I only just started playing satisfactory so I would like some advice on how to calculate the required machine set up for certain parts. I’m trying to build a smart plate factory using 270 iron/min. I’m decent at maths so I just need a basic explanation, thanks.

[oblique hollow]

usually the strat is to start at the end product, choose an arbitrary amount for it and then work backwars to determine the cost of all the ingredients and repeat that until you arrive at the raw ores.
then you know how much iron ore (and other ores) you need for X/min smart plates.
to consume 270/min iron you would then just divide 270 by the cost for x/min smart plates and then scale the whole production line up or down by the resulting factor

[iron hamlet]

So it takes 14 ingots to build one smart plate using the alt recipe for screws, I would divide 270 by 14?

[oblique hollow]

14/min iron ingots for 1/min smart plates?

[iron hamlet]

I think so

I am probably wrong though

[oblique hollow]

yeah doesnt seem right

regardless, we'll go with it for this as an example

so if you determine that 1/min smart plating really takes 14/min iron ingots , then you just go 270/14 = 19.2857...
so you could scale that production line up by 19.2857x, giving you 19.2857../min Smart plating

you need to multiply every part of that factory by 19.2857.. naturally.

[unique cypress]

Depends on the recipes

[oblique hollow]

and yes... thats the other half of it

working backwards you also need to know what recipes you will use

as there are optional alternative recipes for parts than can be unlocked

meaning you can make the same part in different ways

[iron hamlet]

I would be using normal recipe for everything but screws

[oblique hollow]

then run the math with that for like 1/min smart plating

[iron hamlet]

So to get 1 every minute it would take 23.5 iron. Dividing 270 by 23.5 gives roughly 11.5 smart plates.

I’m using satisfactory tools, but for every item I want to produce it always gives me a real number on machine/resource needed. Wouldn’t this be more difficult to build in game?

[wind spade]

not really, just copy that number to clock speed in the machine 🙂

[iron hamlet]

Ok, just one more question and I’ll leave you all alone. The 9 smelters’ outputs need to be split really unevenly here, so how would one achieve that in game?

[wind spade]

have three groups of smelters, each making the amount you need

[vapid gorge]

or 1 splitter

[wind spade]

(or the other way - just use a spliter, it will self-balance anyway)

[iron hamlet]

Would this work even with tier 2 belts as the belt speed is not enough to take the output of all 9 smelters. There would be a substantial backlog quite quickly. Having 3 groups doesn’t evenly distribute them to the specification, leading to unequal amounts. So maybe a combination of mergers and splitters to handle overflow?

[wind spade]

have 3 groups and clock them so that each makes the amount you need

[iron hamlet]

That’s a great idea thanks. Now I just need to find more slugs.

[wind spade]

don't need slugs, you can underclock

[iron hamlet]

Yes but the distribution of the ingots is very uneven. A smelter produced 30/min without any clocking. As I would have 9 smelters I could use 2 (1 of them underclocked) to make 58, but the other 2 groups would need either 4 smelters each or 3 smelters with one being overclocked. I would prefer not going over 9 smelters.

Anyways I’ll figure it out later. Thanks to all of you for the help, it’s very appreciated.

[opaque token]

man im going for a 5/m ballistic + some others build
im not even halfway through calculating and i already need 3k copper ingots and like 300 dark matter crystals

[vapid gorge]

as mentioned, it'll self balance

what happens when one side gets full?

[steel knot]

Do yall move aluminum ingots? Or bring copper to the red forest and export aluminum products from there?

[vapid gorge]

both are fine choices.

it'll depend what you'r doing and where afterwards

for me?
going up the tiers - bring intos to a more central area

sandbox mode after unlocking everything?
I tend to bring a bunch of stuff to my bauxite processing

[rugged tendon]

Would it be efficient to feed one miner into three smelters with a splitter or does it depend on what you're doing?

[dusky bronze]

the miner will only produce a set number of resources

so you'll want the smelters to cover however many resources its producing (you can check how much of something it will eat after you've selected the recipe in the machine)

and thats sort of how the whole game works out

[steel knot]

im looking at Hornslet's world rail system. it's right-hand drive, right? I thought T intersections get Block/Path for each entry/exit, not path block block

[vapid gorge]

you'd have to ask them.

[dusky bronze]

If I had to guess the extra block is there just to keep it running a little smoother (intersection block clears faster)

But I don’t think it would make that much of a difference

[steel knot]

oh the extra block i figured was just for wiggle room, but i always say block/path instead of path/block

[uneven void]

why doe s my train say that my next station is unreachable when it is

[vapid gorge]

most common reason - one or both of your stations are facing the wrong way

[uneven void]

Thank you king

[vapid gorge]

its jsut the most common rookie mistake 🙂

most peopel probably do it at teh start

[uneven void]

i didnt see the sign cus the building was blocking it from my pov

[steel knot]

ahh i had it backwards. it is path on the way in block on the way out

[uneven void]

whats is a good way to make curvier roads for train paths

[uneven void]

and having the foundation curve like this

[steel knot]

foundations curving is a different animal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jxfy2_Iw6U

there's another method with a beam

[rugged tendon]

I'm just screwing around now. Have a miner going into two smelters, each going into a constructor for plates and rods. The rod line splits into two lanes for storage and for producing screws.

Thinking about adding assemblers to make reinforced plates and motors.

[steel knot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5qnl0PzkXE&list=PLxJlMoaL5HmSE62lk-AGtC_E4DPK62vmb&index=6 this was the one i was thinking of. really nice curves with this one

that said, since the auto snap update, i just use auto join on a 2x BP an get curvey elevated rails

[uneven void]

i found avideo using the catwalk intersection and it works really well

[steel knot]

yeah that's the first one i linked

[uneven void]

oh it shows that

[vapid gorge]

@grave timber that shot coudl work - how much total HOR are you making in that system?

[grave timber]

wdym shot could work?

[vapid gorge]

#screenshots message

[rugged tendon]

I don't know why but having only one smelter causes the miner and smelter to fill up to capacity and my brain goes "I don't like that".

[vapid gorge]

you're not using all the items. Do the math behind it

[grave timber]

but it like what context... i dont get it lol... anyways im making 800 HOR

[vapid gorge]

ok so in general, you want to aim to make fluids in distinct seperate sections

While this could work, as no point needs to move more than 600 fluid pm,

you're better off creating 2 completely split systems.

so like 2x 400 pipes

[grave timber]

and I just realized since u asked I actually im making more HOR than I need 200 pm more...

[grave timber]

oooh instead of connecting it individually?

[vapid gorge]

1. it generally keeps flow more stable
2. its a lot easier to trouble shoot issues when you're dealing with systems that aren't interconnected with everything else

[grave timber]

this right?

[vapid gorge]

I mean, like I said, it can work, but in general it's a less stable option. Harder to manage

[grave timber]

ah I see

[vapid gorge]

there's lots of ways to do pipes
some ways are just a lot easier to manage than others

also more and less reliable than other methods

[grave timber]

it should be fine though until I upgrade into dilute/turbo power

[vapid gorge]

if the this flows fine? sure

I just always suggest to people the simpler more reliable options

[grave timber]

but the more stable and reliable one is just having one main pipe that flows to all refinery right?

[vapid gorge]

2 pipes

each with 400 in them

not connected in any way

[grave timber]

oooh right

I see what u mean yeah

[vapid gorge]

like what you're doing can totally work - it can just be a bit more fiddly overall

[viral sparrow]

pipeline junctions and pipes are not the same as splitter/merger and belts

[grave timber]

im sorry i dont exactly know what this means

[viral sparrow]

basically pipe logistics shouldnt be treated the same as conveyor logistics

[vapid gorge]

fluids are bi directional, so junctions can have situations where they create back flow

[grave timber]

ah I see thank you for simplifying.

[vapid gorge]

a belt splitter/merger will never back flow

[viral sparrow]

plus junctions are both a splitter and merger in a sense

[grave timber]

I see thank u

[vapid gorge]

it's the main reason why keeping pipe systems as seperate and simple as possible saves a lot of effort

[grave timber]

right right

I'll check up on my pipes here and there thanks

[weak zodiac]

Can anyone help
I have 6 pure iron nodes with mark 2 miners on
Im not a fan of load balancing
Is there a way i can put all 6 nodes to make on 1 line of belts

Or would i have to still split onto 2 belts

I have mark 4 belts and loads of power shards

[wind spade]

why not connecting each miner to the machines it can feed?

[weak zodiac]

I want to keep it together

[unique cypress]

I mean a mk4 can only fit 480/min. So the minimum number of belts is your total ore production divided by 480, rounded up

[vapid gorge]

Between all the nodes only mine the most 1 belt can handle

[wind spade]

can still be built in a single place, just don't need to balance the belts, "hook each belt to the machines it can feed" is usually the simplest solution

[weak zodiac]

Appreciate the help guys

[unique cypress]

It's not like balancing is hard either. And might be simpler if your numbers are particularly inconvenient

Especially if you use something that isn't a balancer but works well enough as one

[quasi whale]

Would using copper alloy ingot and iron alloy ingot in the same line be worth

[deft lichen]

absolutely

cuts down both the ore cost and machine count

[unique cypress]

Eh, I'd use pure for both. That'd be even less ore

[steel knot]

Anyone ever design a bunch of factories with alt recipes to “not use too much X, because I’ll need it!” And end up never using X anywhere

For me it’s caterium at the moment. Started minimizing caterium needs early and now I’m like “well if I have to set up caterium just for this, I’ll pick an alt”

[wooden plaza]

idk if this is applicable, but I have a bad habit of splitting literally all parts-production into "belt that goes forward into producing other parts" and "belt that goes into a nearby storage container with no output belt, in case I need to build something", and then those storage containers end up being full of unused parts...

this bad habit extends to EVERYTHING, even stuff that isn't needed in building, like screws, which leads me to produce very few reinforced plates because most screws are in a storage somewhere...

[uneven void]

how does a push pull train work

[unique cypress]

Badly

[wind spade]

just fine

engines on both ends, train goes one way, then the other way

[knotty hornet]

They are great if you don't want to spend your whole life building rail infrastructure.

[wind spade]

push pull has nothing to do with train infrastructure tho 🤔 the only thing that changes is not needing to put stations on loops

[knotty hornet]

"Has nothing to do with train infrastructre"
-cites a piece of train infrastructure that it removes-

[wind spade]

I'd hardly call small rail section at station "spending your whole life building rail infrastructure"

[unique cypress]

I'd argue that building 2 rails is faster than figuring out signalling for bi-di

[wind spade]

push-pull doesn't necessary imply bi-di, and vice versa

here I have push-pull with normal rails and normal trains with bi-di rails

[steel knot]

Yeah this playthrough I was better about thinking “just how many stashed computers do I need” so I’ll have a dimensional depot with no extra storage but give it top priority to fill first then feed the factory

[crimson moat]

no signalling for 1 train bidi

[steel knot]

First playthrough I had a bunch of stashed bins and then fell into the bad habit of hand feeding project parts. So I never really worked out appropriate logistics on phase 5

I had some but when they failed I just did it myself

[knotty hornet]

I did the same tbh 😶

[echo flame]

What the best ALT recipe for steel making?

Trying to maximize overall steel ingot output for less ore's if possible and I haven't looked at all the alt recipes

[wind spade]

that depends what you want from it, there's no "general best"

[wind spade]

which ore are you trying to save?

[echo flame]

Coal

I only have 1 pure node in a somewhat respectable distance

[wind spade]

then "best" for that is coke steel which uses 0 coal

though I'd just recommend looking at the options yourself, it's very rarely about a single recipe, usually you have to look at the entire tree because most of "advantages" you get from alt recipes is gained by combining them together in various ways

[shadow sinew]

After getting nuclear power what do you do with heavy oil? Still burn it for power?

[unique cypress]

plastic and rubber

[wind spade]

I mean I see no reason to touch existing factories, so yes

[shadow sinew]

Heavy oil is the byproduct of making them is it not?

[wind spade]

depends on a recipe

[unique cypress]

depends on the recipes

[shadow sinew]

And I don't see how to make more rubber from them

[shadow sinew]

I'm making a new rubber though

[elfin sky]

Going to try to max out an oil node for power production, using the diluted fuel recipe. If my math is right, with a maxed out pure node making 600 oil a minute, I'll need 20 refineries making HOR, 16 Blenders to turn it into fuel, 22 Refineries making Turbofuel, and 177 Fuel Generators to use all the turbofuel, making about 44k power. Does that math sound about right? Using a spreadsheet I made based on numbers provided by the machines themselves

[wind spade]

alternate HOR -> diluted (packaged) fuel -> recycled plastic + rubber

[shadow sinew]

Is that the optimum?

[wind spade]

that is most oil-efficient way to make plastic/rubber
whether it is optimal depends on player preferences

[echo flame]

Absolutely, I just have this problem where I have an over abundance of iron ore and not enough coal to supply my machine so half of my steel automation isn't even running half the time

[unique cypress]

44.(4) GW is correct for 600 Oil -> HOR -> DF -> TF

[wind spade]

fyi there are also online planners you may use if you don't mind a machine doing math for you 🙂

[wind spade]

yeah, if you're fine with using oil for it, coke steel needs 0 coal

there's also compacted steel, which uses sulfur and coal, that also saves coal

[elfin sky]

I tried a couple but my dumbass couldn't figure out how to work em lol

[wind spade]

which ones you tried? I'd recommend https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production, though I'm a bit biased because I made that one 🙂

[elfin sky]

oh nice! I did try that one and I couldn't figure it out. But it was also 2AM and I was tired lmao

[wind spade]

feel free to ask if you run into issues, it's very commonly used around here so people (or me) would be able to help you out

[elfin sky]

For sure! I'll play with it. Thanks!

[echo flame]

Also out of curiosity say I have like... 6 different iron ore nodes what the most effective way I can distribute that across like idk 20 smthn machines be it foundry's or smelters is there a better method than manifolds? Cause I feel like manifolds are limited simply by conveyor belt speed

[wind spade]

manifolds are fine, just don't mix the belts, hook each belt to the amount of machines it can feed

[echo flame]

But because of my brain deficiency's the further down the line I just cant get enough materials down the line to support all my machines BUT I HAVE SO MUCH EXTRA IRON BACKED UP

[unique cypress]

You can just use multiple manifolds. But no matter what you use, you'll have to use multiple of something because of belt limits

[echo flame]

Would I have to section off some of my machines for a second manifold?

[digital wing]

If i need to move more than 4 freight train carts, do i just add another locomotive to the train

Like at the front ?

[unique cypress]

Divide your max belt speed by the consumption/production of 1 machine, round down. That's how many machines you can fit on one manifold. If you need more than that, you need another manifold

[dusky dust]

Technically you can add the engine anywhere, I think. And "4" isn't a hard-and-fast rule. On a perfectly-flat rail you can get by with less. Extra engines just give you more acceleration power, so as you add cars they might start feeling slow without more engines. (And more engines end up being necessary to deal with elevation changes)

[unique cypress]

The wagon:loco ratio depends on the max slope the train will experience and whether that'll happen when it's full or empty, but yes, if you need more wagons than 1 loco can pull, you can just add another loco to the same train

[echo flame]

Oh boy math 🤮

[digital wing]

Can i make it so trains loading from the same station pick up from different carts?

Like train A takes the front 2 and train b takes the back 2

[sturdy sage]

What is with diamonds taking 600 coal per minute you can’t even overclock it to 250% because that’s 1500 a minute and we don’t even have conveyor belts that go that fast

[dusky dust]

Nothing apart from the fact that, yeah, you can't fully overclock that recipe. :)

[sturdy sage]

Why!? that drives me nuts. I had a perfect factory set up and one recipe just ruined it.

I guess it’s time to start using alternate recipes 😔

[dusky dust]

Limits gonna limit.

Would you prefer it if they made the recipe worse just so that you could overclock it to 250%?

[uneven void]

Because i placed a station pn both side and made so the station goes back according to a video and it just says it wont work

[digital wing]

Might be an issue with your tracks

For me they dont always auto connect if im using a blueprint

[uneven void]

For the station do i have to put the station on the engine that will go back?

[digital wing]

If you are just doing a one rail system, i think you do train station - freight platfoms - empty station and at the empty station you put another train

I’m doing one now ill lyk if it works

[uneven void]

Alr cus its my first time using trains and idk whats wrong like what i did was empty - freight x2 - then train but i think i might have to put the train b4 freight

[digital wing]

You need a train station at both ends

[uneven void]

U sure?

[digital wing]

Yes

Otherwise it has nowhere to path to

[elfin sky]

If I need 1000 of something, is it better to make 42 machines to make it or 18 overlocked ones?

[knotty hornet]

If you have the power for it, go for it.

[elfin sky]

These machines are the beginning stages of making the power

Need to see the power draw difference I guess

[sturdy sage]

Yes tbh

My factory is based on overflow, balancing with just the right amount of machines to make sure there’s overflow for everything just slightly diamonds just break it

[digital wing]

I’m so baffled about where to put the signals its my first time. There is one train going both ways on the straight track, and then theres another train which uses the same track but then splits off and rejoins

[dusky dust]

Heh, difference of opinion then, I guess. :)

[digital wing]

What do you do

[dusky dust]

Then again, I played the game throughout 6 major updates where mk3 miners couldn't be usefully overclocked to 250%, and that never bothered me either

I don't mind working within the limits of a problem I'm working to solve. :)

[dusky dust]

Avoid having single tracks, really. Just go dual-rail all the way, and enforce "lanes"

There are certainly situations in which you could probably get away with having a single-rail segment like that, but IMO it's just not worth the bother

[digital wing]

I’m not laying down another 5km of rail when figuring out how signals work will solve the problem

[elfin sky]

Damn the OC'd machines, even though there's only 18 of them, use almost 200 more power than the 42 non-OC'd machines.

[dusky dust]

I'm not convinced that figuring out how signals work will prevent you from having to lay down another 5km of rail. :)

If you've got multiple trains on your network, dual rail is kind of a must

[digital wing]

I’m sure I’ll have to do it at some point for a different line

But i dont intend on it now, this is my only train line

[dusky dust]

Mostly this highlights the wisdom in testing things on the small scale before committing to 5km of rail in the first place. :)

If I had a nickel for every time I've seen someone make fundamental design mistakes on map-spanning rail networks, etc...

[digital wing]

I mean the 5km is still being used by another train

[dusky dust]

In terms of how signals work, though:

1. When you're starting out, ignore Path Signals. You'll want them eventually but they're a distraction a the moment.
2. Signals divide your rail up into "blocks." Only one train is allowed in a block at one time.
3. With a block/path signal buildable selected, the game will colorize rail so that it shows you what the current blocks are

So: enclose all intersections with block signals (so that the entire intersection is one big block), and then have block signals every 200-300m on the "straightaways"

[wanton hawk]

Looks like one of the connections is the wrong way

[dusky dust]

And place a signal right on the entrance+exit of each train station (so that the station itself is one self-contained block)

[wanton hawk]

Unless those are 2 single tracks into one

[digital wing]

These go in the direction of the train

[digital wing]

Yes

[wind spade]

wdym "won't work"?

[wanton hawk]

Search for "docs.ficsit.app signals" there are pretty self explanatory pictures for signals. That being said you are going to need one way tracks at some point to let other trains pass. That's where the signals will go. You don't need signals for a single train

[digital wing]

Search where?

[wanton hawk]

Google but i found a better pic for single track https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/satisfactory_gamepedia_en/images/0/0f/Bi-Directional_Rail_System_Design_1.webp/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/2560?cb=20230112201941

[wind spade]

though that system doesn't support 6 trains at all. 5 max, ideally even less

[wanton hawk]

Oh sure, but he could always add passing loops

[wanton hawk]

Honestly don't know if I'd personally use single track for more than a train or for going in and out of stations where looping around is too complicated.

[wind spade]

@unkempt wharf please do not ask in channels where we can't reply

also, here's a link for message about which recipe to pick: #math-and-meta message

[unkempt wharf]

alr my fault

[digital wing]

Ive made the intersection, but is there a way to make it so 2 trains can drive on the yellow bits of the track at the same time ?

The yellow is the dual rail on the far left

[wanton hawk]

You'll need to test it but if you mean one on each track that should work

[digital wing]

No they both use both rails of the yellow track

[wanton hawk]

If you mean two on the same yellow bit that's not a thing. That would be the section the block signal covers and only one train can be on that segment at a time

[digital wing]

So i have to place block signals across that whole section?

[wanton hawk]

Yes, not too close as trains will slow down to check the following segment

[digital wing]

And if they’re too far?

[dusky dust]

No, with a single-rail section like that you actually can't space out block signals

[wanton hawk]

Trains only know what's on the segment ahead, but if they see the next segment is too short they will slow down so that when they get to that segment and there's a train on the next they can stop in time

[dusky dust]

If you ever have a train going one way and another train coming the other way, they'll deadlock

[digital wing]

I meant on the dual segment

[wanton hawk]

There's not really a thing as too far. Trains will just be more spaced out

[digital wing]

Ok cool

Thank you flx

Supercomputers are such a pain

[wanton hawk]

I usually do one block every 3 full blueprint autoconnect lengths for long distances

[digital wing]

I thought hmf was annoying lmao

[digital wing]

Sometimes my blueprint auto connect for the rail goes super far and sometimes its super short

Do you know why that might be

[wanton hawk]

🤷‍♂️

[wanton hawk]

I use scaffoldings For trains. click it as soon as they autoconnect and drag as far. Then bring it backwards one square. It's always the same length unless I'm adjusting for a turn

[digital wing]

I dont think ive unlocked scaffolding

Unless you mean the frame foundations?

[wind spade]

every stage of the game introduces more complex productions, yeah.

[digital wing]

Until now it hasnt been so bad, but supercomputers seem to be the big hurdler of phase 4 so far

Aluminium was pretty easy but i need so much of it for other stuff lol

[wanton hawk]

Ya

I just setup floating foundations at a level bellow my blueprint tracks. See where I want to run my track then delete once track is setup

Then a second and 3rd blueprint under the frames holding the track

[uneven void]

Think i phrased it wrong but ima test sum when i get home and see if it works

[loud ivy]

do belts move at the speed of the input if its lower than its transport speed?

[wind spade]

belts move at constant speed

[loud ivy]

for example.. a machine is outputting 50 per minute.. belt speed is 270

[wind spade]

per minute values are just averages shown to player, but game doesn't really count with those

[loud ivy]

so then we should see a visual distinction in a mk1 belt connected to the machine and a mk 3?

[steel knot]

I’m on session 4 of procrastinating project parts by working on infrastructure

[wind spade]

mk3 belt moving 50/min will have bigger gaps between items (or batches) than mk1

[deft lichen]

as of 1.0 if you connect a faster belt directly to a slower belt, it will slow down the animation to match the slowest belt

which is really stupid because it makes it harder to diagnose

[steel knot]

Does a variable importance pipe junction work with a shared source pipe but stacked one on top of another? I want to make an alumina tower with water recycling

[vapid gorge]

wdym 'shared source pipe'?

[wind spade]

usually it's easiest to keep them separate

[steel knot]

Like I want to pass a pipe from layer to layer instead of individually feeding

Yeah I figured

[vapid gorge]

as in linking many systems together?

[wind spade]

see e.g.

[uneven void]

how should i place my freight station and train station for a push pull system to work

cus i cant figure it out idk if im stupid or what

[wind spade]

again, wdym "work"? what's the problem?

[uneven void]

its says next stop is unreachable

[wind spade]

can you drive there manually?

[uneven void]

yes

[wind spade]

can the leading locomotive dock into the station?

meaning can it go forward and dock?

[uneven void]

when im at the end it shows the option dock

[wind spade]

and the leading locomotive is on top of the station?

[uneven void]

which one cus there is 2

[wind spade]

leading one

the one that is driving

"front" one

[uneven void]

yh let me go double check rq

[uneven void]

i mean the leading ones are on the stations

[wind spade]

you have station in both ends?

[vapid gorge]

stations have to be facing the way of hte incoming train, like this

[uneven void]

let me try that

[low wasp]

Hi question what is the item that gives more points in the game?

[uneven void]

thank you so much

and u to greeny

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch sink

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=sink

[vapid gorge]

they add the points of hte parts needed + some extra each step, so the last tiers ofc

[low wasp]

Thanks good sir

[bright belfry]

Anyone have like a chart or good ratios to mass produce adaptive control units?

[vapid gorge]

don't work off ratios - you can clock your machines however you like so they're pointless

[vapid gorge]

make a plan like so.
though you could simplify it with alt recipes https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=QFzhNPiIN9cyzhSHtQzK

[bright belfry]

TY SOOO MUCH\

such a time saver

[vapid gorge]

no sweat. That planner takes a little bit of practice and know how but is very worth the time and effort to learn it

I also recommend swaping recipes in and out. That plan only uses base ones and you could simplify it quite a bit for your personal needs

[bright belfry]

k ty

[steel knot]

what are the units on the fuel consumption here? 8 of whatever i'm feeding? as in 8 tanks of rocket fuel for a 2km (4km round) trip?

[vapid gorge]

oof ok you have 2 pipes coming in, how much fuel in each?

[prime forge]

https://gyazo.com/e458990df35f1fc0c9512f14c9991a4a

[gray flower]

Reason why i let the machines stress test for a while to see what is the problem

[prime forge]

uhh 600 in one, 200 in the other

xd

[vapid gorge]

2?

200?

ok so just a quick fluids thing - if you want more leeway in how yo ubuild your pipes? keep the flow lower

in this example I'd make 2 pipes of 400

and feed that each to a single line of machines that need exactly 400

second thing, you've got one of hte pipes branch and them have elevation changes climbing above the gens and dropping down again. Avoid branches like that
Feed pipes from pont A to point B

[prime forge]

I got a tower over by the refinery’s so I don’t need a pump for height, so does that still matter ?

[vapid gorge]

yes. All water towers do is give headlift and headlift doesn't solve that sort of thing

[prime forge]

Originally I had just one long main pipe down the middle connected to all 18 with one pipe at each end, the 200 and 600, but still didn’t work , you figure splitting them into 2 400 pipes that feed 2 sections of 9 instead?

[vapid gorge]

yeah merging systems isn't a good option

hence
"Feed pipes from pont A to point B"

in general you really benefit from keeping any system completely seperate and clocked.
this is doubly true for fluids

easier to plan and a hell of a lot easier to trouble shoot

[prime forge]

I don’t understand , I have gravity assisted fuel being dropped down into the gens no? I thought water tower head-lift got my fluids up no issue

[vapid gorge]

doesn't matter.
Water towers solving flow issues is a superstition people spread on reddit and youtube

[prime forge]

Probably why I see builds on YouTube and dudes got 20 diff pipe lines running , wondered if it was for looks or function lol guess that answers that

[vapid gorge]

it's a super stition. It often doesn't hurt anything. But it sure as hell doesn't solve it

your issue at the moment will be here

you split a manifold into 2 section and then the fluids go up. You really don't want to branch manifolds like that or have elevation changes like that

I'm not saying it's impossible to do that, but there's ways of managing it

much easier making 2x400 pipes though

[prime forge]

So just merge them , split , valve to 400 each n test

[vapid gorge]

absolutely not
again - don't merge systems

clock your machines so that you group the fluid at the start with what you need

[prime forge]

Well one system only makes 200 , I can’t make it make 400 and make the other make less , idk

[vapid gorge]

take 200 from the other system then. Link it to the other 200. make that your Point A

[prime forge]

Does this work to make them both 400? Or is this “merging systems”

[vapid gorge]

"absolutely not
again - don't merge systems
clock your machines so that you group the fluid at the start with what you need"

[prime forge]

Mans speaking gibberish

[charred gulch]

If I butt two lifts up against each other like this, will they connect without a belt or do they need space between to build a belt?

[vapid gorge]

don't merge the 200 and 600 pipe. I'm not sure how else I could explain it differently

[vapid gorge]

if you hear the 'clink' sound when you spin the lift to face each other? a legal connection is made

[knotty hornet]

And if you're unsure, just belt some stuff through and check with your dismantle gun where the item flow stops.

[gray flower]

Reason why i stress test my all of it when i am building

[prime forge]

https://gyazo.com/07e36468c43a59ddff3faf7eae0903e0

So far this is working

[gray flower]

I say let it run 100% and figure out the problems 🙂

[vapid gorge]

gl with it

[gray flower]

right cobalt let it run 100% and let it test run 🙂

[prime forge]

It’s slowly dying 🤣 who woulda guessed

[gray flower]

are the rescoures in going good etc etc 🙂

[prime forge]

Lmfao the passive aggressive smiles are killing me 😂 NO it’s going GREAT not just good

[gray flower]

let it run 100% aka stress testing the factory for power to see then if problems come fix them

[knotty hornet]

that looks like too many gens for a mk1 pipe

assuming no overclocking, you can only fit 15 gens on one pipe

[vapid gorge]

show me where you're making fuel

[knotty hornet]

oh nvm, i see the split

[prime forge]

I got 2 lines but it’s simple as math ain’t mathing

[gray flower]

how much per

[prime forge]

10 machines clocked to want 400 fuel per min , I pipe 400 fuel , and only 6/10 get fuel

Math is failing me

[knotty hornet]

you are only piping 300, cuz mk1

[prime forge]

They’re mk2

[knotty hornet]

you know what

just ignore me

i can't see for shit

[prime forge]

40x10=400, pipe holds 600, it’s being fed 420 for good measure, and it still can’t feed the 10 machines

[vapid gorge]

show an image of whre you're making the fuel , the refs

[prime forge]

I don’t see how that’s relevant but ,

[vapid gorge]

because as mentioned, you'd be better off having 400 flow pipes initially without connecting things up

happy to help but need the basics of what is actually going on

[prime forge]

https://gyazo.com/dacab23bfe52e3e33c5349f756e2d23c

[vapid gorge]

why not just paste the images directly in chat?

[prime forge]

It’s that or phone pic lmfao my keyboards broken I can’t use like half my function keys n shit

[vapid gorge]

ok is this the 200 fuel being produced or 600?

[prime forge]

That’s 600

[vapid gorge]

ok what you want to do here is merge 400 fuel pm into one pipe, and 200 into another pipe

you may need to clock machines properly for that

[limpid rain]

At what point is it worth making use of the starter vehicles? Ive just got my first coal generator setup going last night, and im moving the coal around 600m from two different directions to my nearest water source

[vapid gorge]

manually?

[limpid rain]

really really big belts that look like shit all over the place

[vapid gorge]

well, a simpler solution would be to find coal next to water. I'd say at least 80-90% of coal is right next to a good water source

using vehicles for logistics is totally doable but yo udo have to plan around them and they have a learning curve. It's probably not something I would stress about early on

[limpid rain]

Right, so moving the generator kek

[vapid gorge]

every start zone has at least 1 or 2 spots nearby with like 4 coal nodes next to water 🙂 basically designed for early power

[limpid rain]

Relatively speaking, how close is "nearby"? Because I have a single coal deposit and very small water source at my starting point, and the next nearest one is 800ish meters from my base, 600m from my current coal generators

[vapid gorge]

depends which zone and where you're at. usually not more than 1km

[limpid rain]

Oh damn lol. Uh I took the first option, idk what it was called, just said "ideal for new players"

[vapid gorge]

grassy fields

[vapid gorge]

head north north west, you'll find a lake after a cliff

[limpid rain]

oh yeah ive seen that

[vapid gorge]

about there

[zenith sinew]

I can't see the gromet sleeve, so it should be good.

Damn, I was up in the chatlogs 🙁

[elfin sky]

if I have really long pipes, do I need pumps every now and again to keep the liquid flowing?

ahh maybe I need to close the loop

[vapid gorge]

pumps only raise headlift, so if you have to pump it high, you'll need pumps

[elfin sky]

nah this is justs lateral. I just noticed the machines at the furthest end are struggling even though theres enough mathmatically to provide each machine with what it needs

[limpid rain]

Would it be worth moving/relocating/building a whole new base there?

My current base is kinda just me constantly expanding as I needed more space to make things, building off the tutorial assignments

[vapid gorge]

just make power and import it with cable

[limpid rain]

I had this issue setting up my first coal generators last night. I ran a 2nd pipe and it fixed the issue. I could not explain why

[elfin sky]

...eh? are you talking about the conversation in #design-and-architecture ?

[vapid gorge]

ah sorry, yeah.

[elfin sky]

I think I just needed to close the loop. I heard having dead ends is bad for liquid

[vapid gorge]

lateral pipe flow doesn't need a pump

but doing long pipes often cause issues because it's hard to tell where you need the headlift

[limpid rain]

Really? Interesting. I had assumed dead ends would just fill with water and no longer be a concern?

[elfin sky]

fortunately with water I'm good since I made a tower - the pipes are all charged as long as I dont need to go above it

[vapid gorge]

if you don't have the head lift to reach the dead end it won't fill

[elfin sky]

I was hearing that liquids "slosh" in this game, as in if it hits a dead end it'll start going the other way since pipes are bi-directional

[vapid gorge]

fluids slosh for various reasons.

[limpid rain]

I think I had enough headlift? I put a single pump on each line, and both times it only went to about 10?

[vapid gorge]

as in you only need to raise the fluids 10m? yeah 1 pump covers it.

technically all machines have a natural head lift of 10m but you don't want to push things to the edge

[opaque token]

guys
60 ballistic warps /min
possible or nah

[vapid gorge]

try putting it in a planner

[opaque token]

1200 superposition oscillators

2400 dark matter crystals

DAMN

[opaque token]

6 MK6 belts of crystals

[limpid rain]

Would you mind taking a look at my pipes and seeing if you can explain to me why Im still only getting 30m/min flow at the edges of my lines?

On a related note, how do people get high above to take screenshots without a cheat menu?

[opaque token]

P + R
Photomode + Decoupled camera

dunno on console tho
whatever photo mode is then you'll figure it out yourself

[opaque token]

its lagging real good

its taking a while huh

[vapid gorge]

don't use modeler then. It's not very good

[limpid rain]

Ty. I havent condensed it and made it clean yet because I havent even gotten it working properly 😂

Other than "ugly noob setup, why not organized", I have 3 water extractors feeding an array of holding tanks, running 2 lines to 8 coal genes. At the starter point of the 2 lines, where they break from the holding array, I have 300m/min of flow. By the time it gets to the farthest coal gene, im getting 17-32, varying flow

Hard to see, but there is a single pump on each of those two lines, the headlift is less than 12m on both

[vapid gorge]

well you figured out the image thing 🙂 yeah simplify your pipes

[opaque token]

?

[vapid gorge]

you said it's taking a long time to load? I've never heard of a planner other than modeler take ages

[opaque token]

satisfactory-calculator.com

my pc's crap too tho

530K MW needed

[vapid gorge]

get rid of all buffers, connect it in a loop like this

[limpid rain]

I want to, but I need to understand how flow works in this game, because if it worked the way I would expect, I wouldnt be having flow issues.

I assumed I would have 2 lines of 300m/min, feeding 4 genes each, leaving me with tons of flow to spare. In practice, it feels like each pipe junction is halving the flow i push through it

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=eSWNMBOd3F1UvUsfyT4W

[limpid rain]

Why a loop, and why no buffer?

Happy to follow advice, I just also want to know why so Im not in here every other day

[vapid gorge]

buffers just wreck flow and have variable headlift
they don't provide any benefit but can cause problems - hence just don't have them

[limpid rain]

Oh... that sucks

[vapid gorge]

as for why the loop? you technically don't need to connect the centre in this case

[vapid gorge]

I mean they don't increase throughput of pipes. And production/consumption is stable

they're essentially just fat sections of pipes that have weird flow

Buffers do have uses, but very few

[opaque token]

remember - you don't need buffers if there isn't anything that requires it

[elfin sky]

Im also learning that while creating 44k power from a single node of oil is possible on paper, in practice its not as easy

[vapid gorge]

sent you a plan with 60bwd

[opaque token]

if you have constant 60/m consumption and 60/m production then you're golden without it

ayy thanks cobalt

[limpid rain]

I just like putting buffers in everything. I have buffers in every supply line. You name a material, theres at least 2 storage units of buffer between node and production

[opaque token]

but

why store the node

[vapid gorge]

just don't do it with fluids
or clip the pipes through the buffer for the looks

[opaque token]

storing the final product? sure, but the node?

[limpid rain]

Because Im a hoarder in video games, and those storage units/water tanks/etc can fill up with excess supplies

[vapid gorge]

doing that with raw goods isn't useful

there's no point storing 10,000 iron ore, because if you create a system that uses more iron ore pm you're mining you'll wind up starving it anyway right?

same with ingots.

[limpid rain]

I know that logically. But goblin brain say collect 😂 Apparently not with fluids, and someday Ill stop doing it with solid materials too, probably

[vapid gorge]

I mean you do you, it's not impossible to have random buffers , if you put a powered pump going into the buffer, and a powered pump directly after wards? it probably won't kill your system

[limpid rain]

It just gives me a spot where I can go "ah shit, I ned 30 iron because im a dumbass... oh wait here's 3 storage crates... lemme just grab some of that and fix my own problem"

[vapid gorge]

you'd probably need a pump between every buffer if you put them in series but I really wouldn't do that

[opaque token]

mayyybe not

[limpid rain]

Is that not putting them right after the buffers? 😂

[opaque token]

100% bauxite, coal, and sam is not it

[vapid gorge]

no because it's not on every input or output

[limpid rain]

oh you meant literally

[vapid gorge]

yes

[limpid rain]

Aight so the simple solution here is just to cull the entire resevoire concept and run some straight simple pipes?

[opaque token]

overshooting final boss

[vapid gorge]

and it would probably work ok.
I wouldn't guarantee it though

[opaque token]

also can you sink shards actually

[vapid gorge]

keep your pipes simple is the first rule of pipe club

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch CG

[glad apex]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vapid gorge]

these are convenient beginner coal layouts. You'res is basically the 3rd example

works fine, I recommend you make groups of 8

[opaque token]

anyone had the power graph of machines?

[limpid rain]

Originally my goal was the first example, and im happy to return to that, Ive just been plagued by flow issues and ended up at the 3rd one troubleshooting

[opaque token]

like the clock to power usage ratio

[knotty hornet]

P*(C^log_2(2.5))

[opaque token]

graph? 🙏

[vapid gorge]

I'd look up clocking in the wiki. But the extra power savings or spending is pretty much a non issue. A fully over clocked system only uses 33%~ more power at most

[knotty hornet]

where P is original power consumption, and C is clock speed as a decimal between 0 and 2,5

[vapid gorge]

yeah, dem buffers would be the flow issue 😛

[knotty hornet]

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/sewcratmin

set P to whatever you want

[limpid rain]

Welp, on the plus side, im about to get hella resources refunded

[elfin sky]

Welp. This isnt working so back to the drawing board I think.

[opaque token]

963mw diffirence 🙏

wait no

hell am i talking about
idk

[knotty hornet]

what exactly are you calculating?

[elfin sky]

I think I may end up needing to shorten the pipes if I do this method and create cells. These really long pipes don’t seem to want to play nice.

[opaque token]

how much more power would machines use

but i messed it up so bad i dont even care abt it anymore

[knotty hornet]

obviously 😒 can you be more specific

[opaque token]

wanted to see how much 300-something assemblers would increase the power usage

w/ max oc compared to 100%

[knotty hornet]

300 assemblers at 100% would use 4500 MW
120 assemblers at 250% would use 6043.9 MW

[limpid rain]

What the actual fuck. Thats before and after the bend,less than 50cm apart

[opaque token]

"gravity"

[limpid rain]

wdym gravity? I have a pump, and its less than 20m in height?

It pushed it right to the top of the pipe, and then as soon as the pipe turns downward, instantly 0 flow

[opaque token]

wait zoom out a bit

[limpid rain]

The pipe in question. There is a pump on the right, back near the tanks, and then where it bends over the edge of the hill is where I lose 100% of flow

And yes, I have decoupled the pipes from the tanks, its just 1 big looping line now with 3 water lines feeding at 120m/min each

[opaque token]

A and B have to fill up before C gets any output

[limpid rain]

flow is going the other way for me

[opaque token]

so its going C -> A?

[limpid rain]

Yes

[opaque token]

maybe a machine is consuming the water

[limpid rain]

Theres no machine between the pump and the loss of flow, you can see the whole line above

[opaque token]

huh.....

[limpid rain]

That pump you can see in the corner of the SS leads directly back to my water extractors. Then the pipe goes up the hill, gets 250-300m/min varying at the top where I took the first SS, and as soon as it shifts to the downhill, 0m/min. Ive tried replacing it, nothing

A more inclusive SS. I need to replace a bunch of old junctions with straight pipes, but all the lines to those tanks have been removed as per advice above.

Even if the 2nd line wasnt feeding the genes, theres still no machines between my extractors and loss of flow

[shadow sinew]

it´s insane, a pure oil node takes 53.33 refineries at 100% production to turn the fuel into plastic and rubber xd

[limpid rain]

Could it be because Im pumping water in 2 directions? does that matter in this game?

In the case of the above, water is running down to the genes from both lines

[shadow sinew]

Im gonna run out of lake xd

[opaque token]

dont build on lake then

[shadow sinew]

I´m now planning to keep the fuel production on the lake, and the refineries for the products are gonna have to go on the jungle

it´s going to be 1733.33 plastic or rubber per minute out of the one pure oil node, I can double it in the future with the other 2 normal ones, but I´m starting to think I won´t need that for quite a while xd

[knotty hornet]

If you do the recycling loop, you can get up to 900 of both rubber and plastic from one pure vein.

[elfin sky]

Nvm it does work I just needed to shorten the lengths of the pipes and connect them throughout the system. Now it runs fine. But it did give me another idea Im thinking of trying

[limpid rain]

Is it faster to drive tractor than slide-jump??

[knotty hornet]

Slide jump is faster on level ground, but bumps can stop you dead.

And neither of them beat the Explorer

[shadow sinew]

I calculated 1600 total from fuel loop and 133 from the resin, maybe I did the resin wrong

[knotty hornet]

Then you calculated wrong

[limpid rain]

Ah, havent unlocked that yet

[knotty hornet]

I've made it

[knotty hornet]

Do it ASAP, best vehicle

[limpid rain]

Havent even sent stage 2 of the main story yet 😂 I dont think i have access yet

[knotty hornet]

It's in the quartz chain in the MAM.

You just need tons of oscillators for it.

I think like 100 for the unlock? Only 5 to make it

[limpid rain]

ah yeah, ive barely found any quartz, and have no idea what an oscillator is yet 😂

[knotty hornet]

Where did you start?

[limpid rain]

Uh... plains or smth?

Im just now getting to coal power, and struggling to make sense of it

[knotty hornet]

Go east into the purple forest area, there are some quartz veins along the river.

You'll also pass some sulfur on the way

[limpid rain]

When ive sorted my current issues and have steady power and fuel production, I shall look into it 🙏

On a semi-related topic, someone recently mentioned that theres no real point in me putting buffers throughout my supply lines. The context was water buffers, but they mentioned its just generally not that useful.

If I were to remove that, is the best use of the excess I have buffered the Awesome Shop?

[knotty hornet]

Water? Just delete it

[limpid rain]

No, the thousands and thousands of various solid materials Ive also hoarded 😂

Almost every one of my node intakes has a few storage units creating a buffer on it. Hoarder mindset

[knotty hornet]

Oh yeah, sink it

[frosty owl]

Satisfactory is more about the "per minute" than the "how many items you have stored" ^^

[shadow sinew]

it´s not about getting enough materials to build, it´s about sending a message

[limpid rain]

At what distance/volume would I want to switch from long conveyer belts to automated tractors?

[frosty owl]

Whenever you feel bored of belting and/or curios about other forms of transport
In other words: it's up to your preference

[limpid rain]

At what point is it more efficient? How many items can a tractor move, and at what speed per minute?

Also, is it possible to either make physical beacons or mark things on my map?

[lapis copper]

yeah you can add waypoints on map

[wind spade]

it's always capped by belts anyway

and "efficiency" is hard to define. Speed per minute depends on route length and stack size

[limpid rain]

Assuming a flat road is made using foundations, what speed/minute will a self-driving tractor attempt to move? I can extrapolate from that based on my own options, such as belt speeds, distances, etc

[wind spade]

usually vehicles are recommended to use natural roads

it's faster to do so, rather than build roads yourself

[vapid gorge]

define efficient

[lapis copper]

tractors can move i think 24 stacks at a time, also they follow the path you record for them and move at the speed you moved at (i think) so test out tractor max speed first.

[limpid rain]

Sure, but im trying to get a simple answer that I can extrapolate from, and you seem unwilling to consider it 😂

[limpid rain]

Not what I meant. I dont care about items. Assuming a flat, straight path, how fast will a tractor attempt to move from location A to B

[vapid gorge]

well vehicles use a little bit of fuel/power

compared to the total available on the map? basically nothing

but they do use something.

so in that reasoning, it's never more 'efficient' to use them

[limpid rain]

Oh I missed the latter half of your msg 🙏 My bad

[lapis copper]

also vehicles do cause more lag than belts/trains and are vulnerable to crashing or falling over etc. due to wildlife. i recommend making your own roads to be safe but for your first paths you can just follow natural roads and see if problems arise

[vapid gorge]

I don't think that's accurate

[wind spade]

vehicles do cause more lag than belts/trains
source?

[lapis copper]

i personally have never used vehicles.

[vapid gorge]

there's a ton more visual components to long ass belts

[wind spade]

are vulnerable to crashing or falling over etc. due to wildlife
but they have self-fixing ability

[lapis copper]

well im not sure but thats what ive heard and thats what id expect due to collisions and stuff.

[limpid rain]

Interesting. So in theory, a tractor would cap out somewhere between 55 and 60 kph it looks like, and moves 25 item stacks at a time. Assuming a resource like coal, which is what I would likely use, Im looking at 2500 coal per trip moving at 57KPH avg on a flat road.

So how would I work out the theoretical items/minute to compare that to a belt? Is it as simple as 950m/minute * 2500 items?

[vapid gorge]

that sounds like random superstition from reddit

[limpid rain]

Ofc that assumes a lot, and only accounts for actual travel time, not loading and offloading, but Im working on a theory 😂

[wind spade]

I'd say it's comparable or vehicle is simpler, especially when longer roads

[vapid gorge]

you don't really need to, there's no lock out time on load/unload so if you need more throughput you just add more trucks to the route

[lapis copper]

youtube actually but yeah...

[vapid gorge]

I cast 'doubt' on the youtuber :\

[limpid rain]

Sure, but im still curious. I want to work out, given my resource of choice and making a few necessary assumptions like flat ground for near-top speed consistently, etc, how it would compare to a belt of equal length

[wind spade]

actually the "doubt" should be on all youtubers

[vapid gorge]

I can't recall but I've heard they only use fuel when accelerating? so you'd have to run the route and see

even if they burn fuel all the time I think the simplest method would be to just run the route

[limpid rain]

Why do you guys keep obsessing over fuel and stuff 😂 I just want to figure out the items/minute over X meters of distance that this tractor will move in a vacuum. Ill worry about fuel and input/output belts and shit when the time comes

[lapis copper]

wouldnt that be (velocity/distance)*items?

[vapid gorge]

oh sorry, feeling oogie, thought you were talking about something else

It'd still be teh same method though, run the route, see the result

that's how you'd figure out the return time of the truck

[limpid rain]

Not worried about return time or any of that. Just trying to math out, in a vacuum, how many items/minute a tractor moving at speed is carrying.

So far, it looks like 25 stacks, assuming coal for this, so 2500 items.

Tractor seems to top out at 60kph, so Ive arbitrarily reduced that to 57kph to account for start/stop and some excess. So 950m/min

So, assuming I understand the math suggested by Miko just above, (950*2500)/distance, or 2,3750,000items/minute. Compared to a Mk2 belt doing 120 items per minute across the same distance?

[wind spade]

it's a function of distance, driving style and stack size

[limpid rain]

Yes. is that not what I just did?

[wind spade]

and it most definitely isn't 2m items per minute or whatever you came up with

[limpid rain]

Driving style assumes straight and flat, because theres no reasonable way to math that, I would need to extrapolate based on a given path, and stack size is 100*25 stacks for coal

Well no, it would be that divided by distance

[vapid gorge]

well, if a trip takes 10 seconds it's 150 stacks pmer min I guess?

[lapis copper]

you have multiplied he wrong thing it seems

[limpid rain]

Ah youre right

[vapid gorge]

if that were wire that would be 75,000 ppm

[lapis copper]

btw 57 kph is 205m/s

[limpid rain]

Damn I am bad at math, thats why i ask this stuff in these discord 😂

Couldnt you just assume a distance of 1m to get a baseline, simplifying it to velocity*items?

[lapis copper]

at a 1km distance it would be 512items/minute or a bit over a mk4 belt speed

[vapid gorge]

it does take time to transfer stacks. It's not instant

[limpid rain]

Im only looking into the trip time itself. fuel, item loading/unloading, etc, all overhead

[vapid gorge]

trip time I think has to include load/unload time

[lapis copper]

oh and my calculations dont take into consideration unload/load times. its just a to b

[limpid rain]

Yeah thats all im trying to solve for. I understand its an ideal that doesnt really apply in-game, i just got curious and started trying to math when im bad at math 😂

[vapid gorge]

I don't understand why you don't like return trip time to calculate potential throughnput

[limpid rain]

Because up until about 45s before you sent that, as I was thinking about a different question I was going to ask Miko based on a previous msg, I had failed to consider a full 50% of the trip is spent empty

[vapid gorge]

it's also possible they have different acceleration rates based on how full they are

trains have that

[limpid rain]

Wait really? Cool

[vapid gorge]

train cares have 'weight' and the number of engines by weight affects accelerations. Same with inclination

hence why just taking the time of vehicle routes just incorperates all that info w/o having to worry about the details

I haven't heard trucks have that, but I wouldn't be surprised.

most people wouldn't talk about it being a factor because they'll just look at the total time

you could test that theory by driving 2 trucks up a hill, and timing it? one full truck, one empty

and testing it on flat paths too

that is if the info on truck acceleration isn't already on the wiki

[limpid rain]

How can I clear this anti-fun pebble?

[vapid gorge]

bombs

[limpid rain]

Sulfur progression I assume?

[vapid gorge]

check

[south crystal]

Am i cooked guys?

[vapid gorge]

seems fine

[unique cypress]

Just build more coal plants before you build anything else?

[limpid rain]

Shit 😂 I havent touched that much yet. does it take a lot of time to get to the point of removing that?

[unique cypress]

Nope. The required tech is like 3rd from the top

Or rather, the earliest one you can get is 3rd. There are multiple ways to get rid of these rocks

[limpid rain]

🙏 Thank god. I am like 75% through tripling my current power network, and just realized that rock was there, and I need that coal or else I lose 4 generators 😂

[south crystal]

Ofc im maxing each coal plant out

[unique cypress]

Each?

Why would you not connect them all to the same grid 😂

[south crystal]

Wym🥲

like for example 3 coal gens to one cable and power from there and if i build more connect them to the original coal gen line?

im so confused rn🥲

[worldly nebula]

draw us a cool diagram in ms paint

[limpid rain]

Like this. This is 8 coal generators hooked together by the posts, and then that 1 extra wire waaaay at the end is where it connects to my power line, which goes to my base, and powers everything

Same thing from a better angle. The post closest to camera is my power grid tie-in

[unique cypress]

you can connect everything to the same power grid. and the production and consumption will just add up.

[south crystal]

Bro ur my hero

I was baffled when i saw the capacity going up

[limpid rain]

In theory, could I use blueprints to rotate an assembly setup? Say for example, a complete Rotor assembly line, could I blueprint it, clear it, then replace it according to blueprint, and then just hook it back into the power grid and supply lines?