math-and-meta

[oblique hollow]

Wait nvm one if the conversion nodes wasnt attached i think

I is more expensive that way then

3100 ish iron vs 2200

[somber sedge]

yeah no bruh

[oblique hollow]

Then again oil cant be compared to iron

[unique cypress]

Nuclear is cheaper WP-wise than rocket fuel if you store the waste

[oblique hollow]

150 oil and 2200 iron vs 3166 iron

[somber sedge]

rocket fuel wins in terms of "megawatts per iron"

[oblique hollow]

Really funny metric

MW per Iron Ore

Though rocket fuel technically is oil limited

while nuclear is Iron and SAM limited then i guess

[somber sedge]

that 150 oil needs to be worth 966 iron to even break even between them

[unique cypress]

*MJ per iron ore or MW per iron ore per min

[oblique hollow]

Compare map availability of oil to iron

7.3 x more iron than oil available

Which when adjusted turns 150 oil to 1095 iron

[somber sedge]

wait wait wait

where did u get this number from

[oblique hollow]

Wiki?

[somber sedge]

can you compare iron to coal for me

[oblique hollow]

12600 oil

42300 Coal vs 92100

[somber sedge]

3 iron makes 2 coal

[oblique hollow]

2.177 x more iron than coal on the map

[somber sedge]

so clearly u cant direcly multiply it liek that

[oblique hollow]

Oil cant be turned to iron or anything tho

So there its a bit more fair

[somber sedge]

2.17 more iron but the conversion is 1.5

[oblique hollow]

Yes but Oil is oil and you cant convert anything to oil

[somber sedge]

im aware we are just doing a hypothetical conversion

[oblique hollow]

Of course. But what am i supposed to compare the oil and iron to then

[somber sedge]

decrease your iron to oil number by 70%

or multiply by 7/10

as a ballpark

[oblique hollow]

Then oil would hypothetically be like 735 iron ish

i guess?

But thats just nunber tuning with no real reason behind it

[somber sedge]

i mean there is a reason

we did that to match the conversion rate of avaliability to converstion ratio

of coal

[oblique hollow]

Thats for coal only though

Every resource has different conversion comparisons

[somber sedge]

oh really?

well fuck

this was oddly a waste of time

[oblique hollow]

Iron to sulfur for example
Iron to sulfur yields 3.4x more sulfur than available on the map

[somber sedge]

i see your point

[unique cypress]

It was a waste of time anyway because nobody's gonna spend this much SAM on making uranium rods only out of iron

[somber sedge]

so overall MW/Fe is not a good unit

[oblique hollow]

Well not you at least

[somber sedge]

youre forgetting that i exist

[oblique hollow]

Dan would probably actually do it given this discussion xd

[somber sedge]

im a little silly

i was ACTUALLY going to do that no joke

[vapid gorge]

eh, people have turned hog meat into uranium rods. it's not that weird

[oblique hollow]

But given that rocket has to use 4 seperate resources minimum (Iron, SAM, water and Oil)

Then it makes sense to use 4 for nuclear. swap oil with uranium

Uranium only has one purpose anyway

[somber sedge]

JUST hog meat???

oh...

[vapid gorge]

and SAM

ofc

[somber sedge]

dawg

[vapid gorge]

sloop all the animal meat and you don't need to kill many a minute

[oblique hollow]

Objectively funniest production line

[vapid gorge]

I certainly can't think of another off the top of my head.

especially if you exclusively use only nuclear hog meat

[vapid gorge]

although for this you also use hog meat for the acid, and concrete and everything else

not just uranium

[unique cypress]

Pretty sure due to net positive loops in resource conversion, you can make any number of uranium rods "from" hog meat

But if you want to save on SAM, it costs ~7.5 meat and 340 SAM per rod

If you add water as well, it's 6.3 meat and 300 SAM

At least without sloops

[somber sedge]

almost 300,000MW power with a single hog meat

[vapid gorge]

if you're slooping everything I would have imagined it'd be power negative?

at least slooping the converters. But maybe not

[somber sedge]

negatibve?

[vapid gorge]

as in the converters would take a ton of power

but I guess not if you're outputing that much

[somber sedge]

oh perhaps

[unique cypress]

Keep in mind that sloops cut all previous power cost in half. So if everything before a machine pulls more power than the machine itself, it should be net positive

[vapid gorge]

how many sloops is that taking?

[somber sedge]

no clue lmfao

[vapid gorge]

are converters 2 sloops?

[somber sedge]

its more than 200 or so

[vapid gorge]

oof

[somber sedge]

so yeah

not practical

[oblique hollow]

ya

[ripe wing]

this doesnt look right, verdict?

[vapid gorge]

right in what way?

[ripe wing]

half of them are full the other half is not

[vapid gorge]

it takes time for manifolds to flood properly

[ripe wing]

i think i also messed something up badly in my factory, where plates should be there are plates and rods

and its too sphagetti

[vapid gorge]

I mean without seeing the rest of it maybe the next step of ingots is flooded so it can't keep feeding? but it takes a while for a manifold to fill up all the machines

you should also build on foundations and keep it tidier to keep track of things better

[ripe wing]

i hopeits just i set one constructor to rods instead of plates

okay yeah i will just wait and pray

so far half of the machines are full and other ones dont have enugh materials

[vapid gorge]

assuming you did the math right and your belts are fast enough

"it takes time for manifolds to flood properly"

[ripe wing]

yes i kept that in mind what u quoted now with what i said

i will wait for them to flood properly

[ripe wing]

that was it btw

[vapid gorge]

it happens! when you see something you think is wrong follow the lines backwards or fowards .

if the machine is clogged with output? forwards
if starved? backwards

[supple crag]

my head currently doesnt want to math .. so i got 2 mk5 belts comming in with 600 .. i need to split into 2 belts one 700 and one 300 .. how would i do that

with mk5 belts

[unique cypress]

I'd do a 2:2 balancer

The 300 belt only needs to consume 300 and no more and it'll work

[dire aspen]

What’s the best way to build a conveyor bus 4 belts ?

[unique cypress]

4 stacks conveyor poles probably

[sage belfry]

is manifold merging an issue for any reason? it doesn't appear to be backing up, but it could just take a very long time for that to start happening

[unique cypress]

As long as you're not exceeding the capacity of any single belt, it'll work

[sage belfry]

ok thanks!

[crimson moat]

You're missing two expensive parts of that recipe; if you're making 1200 coal from 1800 iron, it also takes ~384 SAM and and ~2.6 GW (100% clock) of power.

If you could convert without SAM or a conversion farm measured in the gigawatts per node, it would be a very different game and iron would have much more usage and value in the lategame.

[wind spade]

usually I wouldn't build a bus

[tropic hawk]

depends on your use case.

[fair magnet]

did i split these right? the one on the right is pure and left is normal

[dire aspen]

Building it from the desert to the rocky desert

[tropic hawk]

depends on what you are trying to accomplish

[fair magnet]

coal powered generatorszs

[tropic hawk]

again, it depends. what are you trying to transport, how much of it, what varieties, belt speed, etc.

[tropic hawk]

any reason you are using splitters instead of manifolds?

[fair magnet]

what is manifold?

[unique cypress]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[dire aspen]

everything from the desert to my mega factory in the rocky desert fastest belt speed I have is mk 4

[fair magnet]

oh thats so cool

[tropic hawk]

still, I need information. I am not privy to your save, so I don't know what we have to do

[dire aspen]

Transport iron coal copper limestone

from point 1 desert to my base in the rocky desert

I just one know the fastest way to build mass amounts of conveyers

[tropic hawk]

is there any reason you are using conveyors for this task instead of one of the other logistical techniques?

[dire aspen]

it’s constant no irritation trucks and trains are not constant and I gotta build it anyway so may aswell just lay conveyers

[tropic hawk]

another logistical question, why are you making raw resources go across the whole map instead of refining them?

[dire aspen]

bc I will do it at my base so I don’t have to travel all the way to fix shi

[tropic hawk]

out of curiosity, did you play Factorio before coming to satisfactory?

[dire aspen]

Nope

[fair magnet]

did i do the manifold right? 180 total coal per minute from a pure node and a normal divided by 12 = 15 per minute which is the base minimum for coal powered generators

wait i need 2 more

[crimson moat]

I would suggest making the coal gens themselves at water level, and just bringing the coal down

that way you can avoid the need for pumps entirely

[fair magnet]

yeah i will but im bringing the coal down from here

[tropic hawk]

the belt after the merger can handle all that coal per minute, right?

[fair magnet]

wait does the merger have a limit

[crimson moat]

No, the belts do

[fair magnet]

oh ok

[tropic hawk]

merger doesn't (unless you mount it on a belt) however the output belt does

[dire aspen]

I still don’t know the fastest way to build mass conveyers 😭

[crimson moat]

you're gonna need multiple belts / manifolds here

[fair magnet]

i need to use mk 3 ik

[tropic hawk]

fastest way in vanilla is with blueprints.

[crimson moat]

What mk. of miners do you have, what mk. of belts, and do you have access to overclocking?

[fair magnet]

none and none

im using t1 everything

[crimson moat]

t2 belt unlocks before coal

[fair magnet]

i have t2 miners but idk and t3 belts

[tropic hawk]

you just seem to have a lot of habits factorio players typically have.

Why do you believe you would have to fix things?

[fair magnet]

so i should use t2 miners and t3 belts

[tropic hawk]

so some clarification: t2 miners are made with steel, as are t3 belts.

[fair magnet]

yeah ik

ive automated steel

[crimson moat]

Mk.2 miner on normal at 100% clockspeed outputs 120/min

Mk.2 miner on pure at 100% clockspeed outputs 240/min

So you need a mk.3 belt for the pure node alone, and a mk.2 or better belt for the normal node. You can't fit them both on one belt.

Those will power 24 coal plants (8+16).

If you go and unlock overclocking, you can make it 36 (18+18) with the same mk.3 belts. You may want to build with that expandability in mind.

[tropic hawk]

the miners have more output the higher tier you go. the belts you should use are the ones with throughput equal to or greater than the miner output.

[dire aspen]

Idk I always have and don’t want to travel to go to the desert all the time

[odd kiln]

is there any way to plan the use of somersloops on satisfactorytools.com?

[crimson moat]

@fair magnet I also have an example setup for coal gens and water that you may want to look at on here:

#math-and-meta message

It uses a generator underclock (88.88%) so that 1 water extractor runs exactly 3 generators, which also lines up with 9 gens = 120 coal (rather than the full clock of 8 gens = 120 coal).

This setup keeps the pipes as simple as possible without being wildly inefficient with water space (e.g. 1 water extractor = 1 gen is simpler, but pretty bad in that regard).

[crimson moat]

nope. Modeller can do it

[fair magnet]

okay thanks

[odd kiln]

modeler?

[crimson moat]

Satisfactory Modeler on steam. It has its quirks, but it's a really powerful tool that is unmatched in some areas.

[tropic hawk]

it sounds like you don't plan out your factories very well if thats the case. if you are looking to just belt the resources over to a megabase, thats fine, just know it tends to be more resource intensive on your computer and munches a LOT of materials overall.

[odd kiln]

alright, I'll check it out, ty

[tropic hawk]

I believe it is planned when greeny gets the new tools up and running

[unique cypress]

pretty sure modeler is spelled with one l. might help finding it

[crimson moat]

On the subject of PC performance, i've found that 3 dimensional builds (like a sphere or a cube) are MUCH more CPU-intensive than builds which are more spread out, or built mainly in 2 dimensions. I think it's because of the way that LOD and processing works when you're up close; the LOD range is spherical, so a 2d build tends to have most of your base drawn at a lower quality. If you're in the middle of a sphere or cube, the average distance to buildings is much lower and therefore much more expensive drawing is done. This also doesn't seem to be culled very well, so stuff which is several floors above or below you will still have very high performance impact.

It does not become truly apparent unless you are building a thousand machines and belts in one place, but it is obvious from comparing one large build to another where they have the same machine/belt count but one runs 5x faster on the CPU.

Another thing that i've seen have enormous CPU impact is having a direct view of the landscape outside, particularly where verticality is involved. Looking down at the swamp absolutely wrecks performance, as did looking out at the open spire coast from the top of my generator tower (roughly the size of empire state building) - but if you build a foundation wall blocking your view then it does seem to get culled and your CPU FPS literally doubles.

[crimson moat]

Tyty

[wind spade]

if I find a way to do it

[tropic hawk]

I have faith in you!

[odd kiln]

from that satisfactory modeler, I only just found you can do stuff like this, like wth is that?

[wind spade]

that's 1/4th of an effect at 1/4th of a cost

[deft lichen]

@crimson moat technically yes, it has an internal limit of 2000/min, but that doesn't matter in vanilla

[deft lichen]

1 in 4 cycles makes double

[crimson moat]

Ah i didn't realise.

Like junctions don't have an obvious limit (or it's also higher), so you can attach 2 pipes to each end and pull 1200/min through them

One thing that i have noticed is that junctions with 3-4 connections have a deceptively large internal storage which is not displayed in the UI. I made a pipe that was basically just a huge grid of junctions, and it took several times longer to fill than it would have if it was only filling the pipe and machine volume. Hundreds of m3 of water filled invisible buffers.

[deft lichen]

you can use junctions to cheat head lift

they're much weirder than they seem

[onyx locust]

Does it so the same with windows? Or its basically same as clear view?

[dire aspen]

I do manage my factory’s well I use modeler but still what’s the fastest way to place belts?

[crimson moat]

It does with windows, yeah, but windows become non-transparent if you're not quite close to them. They probably act like walls then.

[wind spade]

that's just stacked belts then, not a bus

[dire aspen]

same thing bro

[wind spade]

well not really

[dire aspen]

a bus is a stacked version of a car isn't it

[wind spade]

yeah, but not in factory game context 🙂

what is "bus" in factory games comes from computer science

[crimson moat]

Computing
a distinct set of conductors carrying data and control signals within a computer system, to which pieces of equipment may be connected in parallel.

I would argue that parallel includes the third spatial dimension, though. It does in computing and hardware design (for example there are very often a dozen vertical layers of wires in stuff like a CPU package, motherboard, DIMM etc with stuff going up/down/left/right to ultimately move from one XYZ coord to another).

[wind spade]

a bus is logistical build that handles distribution of resources between machines

[dire aspen]

?

[wind spade]

yeah some youtubers misuse the term

[dire aspen]

exactly so thought thats what i use for them

[wind spade]

this

[dire aspen]

but i still dont know the fastest way and i dont want to belt every single one one by one

[wind spade]

see the splitting (and merging)? that's what makes a bus bus

(and such a bus is generally not recommended)

[dire aspen]

okay idc the term all i care is how to get the recoures from the desert to my base

[wind spade]

the distinction is important so that we know what do you want to build - is it just stacked belts that carry things from A to B?

[dire aspen]

belts that carry recoures from the desert to my base prob stacked then

[wind spade]

primary suggestion would be to build near the resources, if you don't want to do that, then trains/trucks/drones. If you insist on a belt, then depends on how "nice" you want it to have

blueprints probably save a lot of time

[dire aspen]

but trains are not a consistant flow of recourses

[wind spade]

that doesn't matter

because if you use buffers at each station (as you should), the buffer will resolve it

[dire aspen]

buffer?

[wind spade]

industrial storage container

connected with two belts to the platform, and one belt coming from/to the container

[dire aspen]

a yh ofc

so if i make like 10 trains on 1 track it is consistant?

[wind spade]

you won't need that many trains, most journeys are like 1-2 trains at most

[dire aspen]

from rocky desert to desert i only need 2 trains?

[wind spade]

you'll see, depending on things like stack size and round trip time

but usually one or two trains are enough to carry the resources

[dire aspen]

ok then ig trains are better than a conveyer

[wind spade]

well depends how you think about "better"

one train can definitely carry more than one belt's worth of resources (I mean it can have almost infinite cars), but they cost power while belts are "free"

I'd still build near the resources instead of moving them via train though

[dire aspen]

not when u build a mega factory

[wind spade]

I wouldn't build a megafactory, requires too much planning in advance and is unnecessarily complicated

[dire aspen]

idc it looks cool

[wind spade]

separate factories look cooler imo

[visual yarrow]

soo

am I the only one who always just ends up with separate megafactories

occasionally they get big enough to start essentially melding into one another

[wind spade]

usually "megafactory" means "all production in one place", so by that definition you can't have more than one megafactory 😉

[visual yarrow]

i think we have different definitions of megafactory, then.

[wind spade]

if people are talking about size, "big factory" is usually what you say 😉

[visual yarrow]

yeaaaah, big factory isn't really what i'm talking about

it doesn't really convey the scale, or the fact the the reason I end up with multiple of them in the first place is because the sheer scale results in future expansion becoming decentralized. and also I start getting lost in them

to put it another way, I look at things more in terms of how interconnected production lines are. otherwise, how do you actually define a megafactory? does it not count if you decide to have separate buildings to have some semblance of organization? how far away can they be before they stop being the same factory? and so forth.

but really, the bottom line is this: nothing is unnecessarily complicated if the complexity in of itself is your goal

[wind spade]

not-interconnected factories are usually called "independent"

[fringe geyser]

do you guys have any suggestions or feedback for my garbage coal plant

[visual yarrow]

okay, how do you define interconnected, then?

[wind spade]

a factory which is logistically connected to another?

[visual yarrow]

i'm not actually sure what we're confused about now

that's generally how my saves are, in general. big rail networks connecting things, shipping things from place to place

[fringe geyser]

😭 i think im doing water piping all wrong

[wind spade]

I'm not sure I'm confused about anything 🤔

[wind spade]

yeah then you don't have indepdendent factories, and don't have megafactory

you could call those "modular factories"

[visual yarrow]

they are absolutely not modular

[wind spade]

or "outposts"

[visual yarrow]

that's probably more accurate but doesn't really convey the scale I tend to build at. let me put it another way

i tend to enjoy doing architectural projects

[wind spade]

well "outpost" doesn't convey any scale, that just conveys "there's a set of machines that are not near other machines"

outpost can be huge or just a miner and a few constructors

[visual yarrow]

mmm, I don't think proximity really matters once everything is up and running, though

but it's just semantics, ultimately

i define what I tend to build as megafactories because they do the usual thing of consolidating resources in a centralized location and processing a lot of stuff, but I tend to do it for, say.... large segments of the map, rather than literally the entire map

and then they will supply one another in various ways.

i use a lot of transport hierarchy techniques I learned from playing cities skylines, for instance

[wind spade]

yeah it's just that majority of people here would understand "megafactory" as opposite of "outposting" (meaning building factories all around the map)

[visual yarrow]

i think what i'm trying to say is that I build on such a large scale that what would technically be my outposts would be easily mistaken for a megafactory without context

like, I actually had to raise the uobject limit

[wind spade]

yeah I get that, it's just that once you build a second factory, no matter the scale, it wouldn't be considered "megafactory" anymore (in my book), because it's no longer "all production in one place" 🙂

but I totally understand what you're building and how

[visual yarrow]

ahhh, yes, but my tricksy question meant to be thought provoking is, "what truly is the distance that determines what is in the same place and what is not?"

the way I see it, you can have multiple factories that are all outputting parts to dimensional depots, but are entirely independent from one another

so physical distance isn't what actually matters

it's how interconnected the logistics are

[wind spade]

usually it's more logistical distance than physical

[visual yarrow]

so when I am taking things into account like... "what can I potentially have this drone that's shipping parts to another place bring back to make the trip more efficient?"

in that sense, and given that throughput is (in theory) consistent once everything is running, physical distance actually doesn't matter at all

buuuut I also define a megafactory as "place where I have like at least 10 train stations, shipping in the full output of many many nodes and then seeing what all I can make from that."

well, and I guess I also define them as "those builds I make that end up being winchester mystery house-style because I just keep adding onto them with reckless abandon" and are thus labyrinthine

perhaps there isn't really a standardized term for what I do. other than "nonsensical"

[fringe geyser]

This is my current setup for my coal generators, i really need help figuring out the most optimal way to route these damn pipes

[fluid vector]

wiki coal generator

needs 3 input points to spread evenly among 8 coal gens

[ruby shoal]

Anyone have any suggestions on how to set up nuclear power? I've just unlocked it and figured 5 reactors is a suitable amount to start out with, that way I can have the option to get rid of my oil power plant to make room for factories.

I'm struggling in figuring out a good design to use. I've figured out it's 2 water extractors to power 1 reactor, but I can't think of a good, expandable way to build it.

[fluid vector]

Just go backwards 1 step at a time.

if you want lets say 5 reactors, how many nuclear rods per minute is that

then how mnay machines to produce that many nuclear rods per minute, build those

then the materials to make those nuclear rods per minute, etc

[ruby shoal]

I get that, and that's what I intended to do. I guess I mean moreso like physical layouts, as I haven't felt satisfied with any actual design I've come up with.

Is it a better idea to have all the water extractors in one area? Or pair them off with each generator. Should I build everything in a straight line, or have the reactors surround the water?

Stuff like that is what I'm thinking about

[fluid vector]

I build mine in the ocean, like a floor above the ocean so I can put water extractors underneath where I need them

[queen slate]

Oh, water consumption of 1 power plant matches 2 extractors now. I connect 2 extractors to 1 plant. It's up to you how to place all that, be it 1 plant near 2 extractors or something else.
I placed mine like the previous person - in the sea/ocean with plenty of space and no pumps, but i hope that doesn't narrow your vision.

Also, did you already decide which area on the map are you going to use?

[ruby shoal]

Yeah, I ended up going with that little island off to the left of the grassy plains that borders the void. There's no resources there so i don't have to worry about covering anything up, and the resources I do need are pretty close by.

[queen slate]

Oh, yeah, you can fit a lot around these lands.

[ruby shoal]

I think I'm gonna have to need pumps because I kind of wanted a logistics floor, and the way I've currently built demands pumps, unfortunately. I'm planning on building water extractors in a big line, and doing reactors on either side

That way I can have two extractors/reactor, and I don't have to worry about super complex piping

[queen slate]

How about placing line of extractors near the reactors on foundations? Something like that: #screenshots message

Oh, forgot this chat allows pictures.

And the belts for fuel and waste can go to logistics floor.

[ruby shoal]

Ooh, doing that is pretty tempting. I have the basics of a bridge structure going over the waterfalls on the way to the islands, so I wanted to keep the reactors on level with that, but it might look interesting to have them lower than the bridge. It doesn't seem like there'd be a ton of room for logistics, but I can work around that.

[queen slate]

Good idea!

[ruby shoal]

What kind of foundation is that? I swear I see it all the time, but I've never seen it in game

[queen slate]

I don't really use it, but it's Glass foundation Glass Frame Foundation from AWESOME shop.

[gloomy shoal]

Glass foundation, it's bundled with the steel frame blocks in the AWESOME shop

[ruby shoal]

Ah, I thought I bought everything already, maybe I missed it

[main thicket]

i have an issue. i have 32 refineries making 600 turbofuel which goes to fuel generators yet, after some time the last fuel generators are empty and 3 or 4 refineries are idling becuase they are full of turbofuel. they are connected but they just wont push the liquid out, only some of it. any tips?

[gloomy shoal]

Curiously, glass foundation does not use Silica in its assembly, unlike the very similar glass roof material that looks similar.

[gloomy shoal]

Also, despite being called a foundation, glass foundation will be in the architecture tab - if you have the steel frame blocks, it'll be in with those.

[gloomy shoal]

Probably liquid sloshing in the pipes, assuming you manifolded them

You can unfortunately load balance pipes as they do try to evenly split at all junctions, individually (with respect to gravity) rather than Just Working like belts do

[ruby shoal]

Gotcha, gotcha. I'll go looking then!

I hate this game, it's so hard to build over areas when they look so pretty lol

[queen slate]

Well, gotta violate nature or get creative inspiration for improving or improving the scenery.

[queen slate]

Do the pipes allow all the fuel to go through? Check if the pipes are MK2 instead of MK1 where needed, and if you can probably inject more fuel closer to idling generators.

[ruby shoal]

Looking for personal opinions, this might be better for the design and architecture chat, but should I build in the red circle or the yellow circle?

Little marker indicates where the death border begins

[wraith schooner]

hello all can anyone explain the fluid mechincs numbers it comes up with say 60m cubed per minute and then 30 per min like in items, then it asks for say 2m cubed so i tried splitting it accordingly but it couldnt keep up but i managed to find i could get 8 refinies from it for fuel which is mor ethan wiki says but less than what i worked out

[ruby shoal]

As far as I know, it doesn't have any actual effect on the calculations and is just a fitting detail. Constructors will say they take a certain amount of items per minute because each item is counted as 1 and they have a supposed 'internal storage'.

Water can't just be counted as 1. You can't just have 1 water/minute. So they change the units to make it make more sense, so a 'unit' of water is 1 cubic meter, since that's how liquids are usually measured.

[wraith schooner]

i hope they introduce a splitter for items that allows you to determine the output like 45, same with fluids a splitter to determine the output would make automation even more better allow i probably just sink most of the extra but i love to be fully optimised but i would love to fix the fluids so i maxmise the output as what the wiki says does not equal what i managed to do

[ruby shoal]

I believe Valves are essentially fluid splitters, but from what I remember, they have a ton of issues right now and generally aren't worth using

[wraith schooner]

the vales are but yeah there not splitting stuff right when measuring the invidual outputs of each pipe it way off what it should be either higher or lower i thought it was by design guessing now

[ruby shoal]

Exactly, that's the problem Valves have. They're off ever so slightly and don't actually allow the amount through that they say.

I think quantity splitters would be pretty nice, but I'd think the reason they don't have them is because it kind of negates the need to over/underclock. If you can pick exactly what you want going where, you don't need to clock anything other than whatever's producing the material (miner, extractor).

[wraith schooner]

true but i still over clock to produce higher amount and higher output but then i could make sure it was keeping up perfectly as i say it would be brillant although them measure things from the shop are not required i do it by doing the maths each split

[ruby shoal]

Well, in theory, you should only be producing what you can feed. It doesn't really matter if you have 6 overclocked constructors when you can only afford to feed 4

[wraith schooner]

yip overclocking makes calculating the maths more fun to me can make the splitting harder but still very much fun. it is fluids i am still experimenting with but i not sure if i should wait if there is known valve issues

[ruby shoal]

Fair enough, though I don't think you can really complain too much when you're having production issues then.

Fluids are honestly fine without Valves. I still really don't understand them, but I've made it to Tier 4 without using a Valve once, so they shouldn't be stopping you

[wraith schooner]

the fluids where fine for me with coal but it when i have moved onto oil and cruid and nitgoen that i have started to have problems with merging and splitting about to start work on crude oil hence why i was hoping someone could explain it to me, but you have helped thank you 🙂

[fair magnet]

did i do my manifold wrong? the right side has much more, should i change it

oh shit is this like plinko

where it gets rarer the farther it goes down

[digital crow]

that's how manifolds work...

[fair magnet]

JACKPOT!!!!!!

[digital crow]

you need to make sure your belts aren't consuming more than you need going through.

[fair magnet]

DINGDING DING DING DING

[digital crow]

have the throughput be higher level belts and outputs be lower levels to keep distribution smooth

[fair magnet]

throughput?

[fair magnet]

lotta nerd shit but i think i did it

[ruby shoal]

They mean the belts carrying the coal to different splitters should be higher than the belts carrying coal from the splitters to the generators.

[fair magnet]

yeah nerd shit

i think i got it though

[ruby shoal]

You made a load balancer, which works, but wasn't exactly necessary. Regardless, very glad it works!

[fair magnet]

gnarly!

[fair magnet]

clean afffff

water pumps are at 113%

[vapid gorge]

avoid connecting the 4 extractors together. No need for it

[vapid gorge]

I mean you can compact it more? but if you like it spread out, you do you

[fair magnet]

i fixed it :P

[vapid gorge]

this is the same

it is in fact, maybe less compact somehow

[charred gulch]

I just learned that manifolds are actually efficient after a short warmup time. This is awesome news and I love learning that.

[vapid gorge]

yup. never any need for manual splitting

if you don't want to wait for the spin up time you can also just hand fill the machine first

though I never bother

[charred gulch]

Right you can prime it, but if I'm going to leave my computer running for an hour working anyways, what's 5 minutes of warmup time

If I have the materials on me, maybe I'll prime them if it's like ore or something simple, but nothing complex

[vapid gorge]

well, screws and wire can some times take... an hour... but also, go build something else? or explore

oh and concrete. Anything that stacks to 500

[haughty barn]

Probably red to give yourself more room, just in case (TM)

[versed violet]

Kinda makes me sad that there are only 8 priority groups for the switches, and now I'm starting tier 9.

[vapid gorge]

what was it you were wanting to build? And isn't the yellow circle past the death border?

[vapid gorge]

you can always build up for more room anywhere you are

[haughty barn]

Sometimes shorter is better

Like fields of reactors instead of a skyscraper with them covered up

[versed violet]

Actually, is Ficsmass a Tier 1 tech or technically a tier 3 because foundry?

[vapid gorge]

... not if you need more space?
also building in 3d closer connections to other production lines

[vapid gorge]

you prefer endless, hideous, fields of generators? 🤮

[haughty barn]

Better as in cooler

[haughty barn]

Yes

[vapid gorge]

yeah gl with things

[haughty barn]

I must bring the heat profile of the landing zone up to an appropriate level

[ruby shoal]

A nuclear power setup. Yellow is almost past the border, I could use that space an build to the left (West), but I can't build any further South than the little marker at the bottom, since it marks where you start taking damage.

I'm kind of torn if I use the island for loading/unloading trains or trucks and for partially producing stuff like electomagnetic control rods, or if I build platforms and use the red area

[gloomy shoal]

Technically you can place past that point, to an extent
You just shouldn't put yourself past that point

Might not be an awful idea to shove a line of reactors or two that way

[ruby shoal]

Right, I just didn't want to risk it. I'd end up just building West, but imo it feels weird to build somewhere you're technically not meant to

[gloomy shoal]

I mean in my case I'm running a train line around the world border, so having radioactive materials near it might not be the wisest plan

[vapid gorge]

makign teh rods or just burning it?

[ruby shoal]

No idea, but I'm probably going to be building the reactors and burning the rods over water, regardless of which spot I pick.

[vapid gorge]

maybe the yellow spot then? drone in the uranium rods

[ruby shoal]

That could work! I don't have drones yet, so I was going to train in all the uranium. But I suppose that might actually make a little more sense, since I can power the drones with the rods, right?

I guess I'll try a few designs and see what works.

[vapid gorge]

if you're at nuclear drones should be a stone trhow away

[knotty siren]

I personally love this. I am now in the process of having blueprinted skyscraper parts and putting them up everywhere including both skyscrapers for production and skyscrapers for my fuel generator plants. Not only is it nice and compact compared to a field of generators, with the elevators now in the game, I can use that to go up and down (although I do also already have the hoverpack but yeah...)

[somber sedge]

im suffering from the infamous mk 2 pipe issue

the flow rate fluctuates a lot and all the machines turn on and off

what do u guys think of using valves ONLY to limit DIRECTION to prevent backflow

[oblique hollow]

use mk 1 pipes for any pipe section that doesnt need to flow faster than 300m³/min

i doubt any of your machines (individually) actually makes or uses fluid faster than 300/min, so you can make any pipe directly connected to that machine a mk 1

[somber sedge]

the left 4 blenders produce fuel and the right 4 blenders use 4 fuel

the flow should be 400 but the pipe can never seem to reach more than 300

hruh

i feel stupid

[oblique hollow]

yeah even from here i can see a mk 1 pipe in the top image

is that one intended? not that it matters much

[knotty siren]

Wait, are you using fluid buffers? That might be the reason for all the sloshing I would think. Perhaps take them out if you can.

[oblique hollow]

meh, that mk 1 pipe is limiting flow to 300/Min
once thats fixed, then you can worry about buffer slosh

besides, the buffers are on the side

not directly in-line

[somber sedge]

yeah that single mk1 pipe was single handedly fucking the entire system over

[oblique hollow]

thats a classic

[somber sedge]

once i replaced that all the sloshing has stopped

[knotty siren]

Heh

Glad you got it figured.

[somber sedge]

okay a bit of sloshing is persisting

im tempted to use buffers

[oblique hollow]

You already have buffers

More buffers is not gonna make the sloshing better

Put a pump on the output pipe of the blenders (before the 2 buffera) so theres flowback prevention and some active pumping going on

[somber sedge]

can i use a valve instead of pump?

[vapid gorge]

Pumps are more reliable for it

[balmy ice]

how to use blueprints? i just unlocked them

[vapid gorge]

make a blueprint machine, build things in it. creates a blueprint when yo usave

[versed violet]

Build blueprint machine. create your design inside. Save it. Now you can put copies of the design in your world. Check blueprints tab. Also, your designs can be disasembled all in one go with alternate disasembly mode, if you happen to put hundred machines down in wrong place.

[vapid gorge]

@ancient mirage keep waste and fresh split

blue fresh, red waste

[ancient mirage]

ohhh alright,imma do that thanks

[charred gulch]

Does anyone have any videos or anything explaining the hydrodynamics of this game?

[wooden jasper]

I thought I was on-grid (eyeballed it) for my nuclear power plant 🥀

this took wayyyyy too long

for only 12 uranium fuel rods/min

[amber umbra]

@charred gulch “Reddit satisfactory pipeline manual pdf”. Or ask around here.

If you ask something like “why does my 600 fluid/minute coal plant not work” usually gets discussion going.

[burnt topaz]

Quick Question about Pipelines, If i build a tower at the Source like this and drop down i dont need to use Pumps along the way again, right?

[oblique hollow]

you dont even need a tower that high

but yes

once you went up, you never(*) need pumps to go back up to the same height
( Conditions apply, head lift depend on pipes being filled - if you cant ensure the entire network stays full you lose that head lift until its full again)

[slow hawk]

yep, aqueducts in real life do that ^^

[gusty pine]

Does anyone know why my coal power keeps spiking? all of my generators have water and coal so i dont know what the problem is

[wind spade]

watch them for yellow lights and see what the problem is

[gusty pine]

ok i think i found the problem

[brisk urchin]

but how do you handle the waste of the waste?

calculate it in the waste loop?

[plucky tusk]

Afaik its the same water just cycling through. I dont usually build em like that i just go for turning waste water into wet concrete.

[spare tapir]

Oil Power Plant plan, any suggestions and or changes? 20 GW btw

[haughty barn]

Looks good

[spare tapir]

thanks!

[burnt topaz]

@wind spade hey man, great website, thanks for telling me about it a few days ago, wanted to ask if theres an option to show machines needed if overclocked

i.e. machines needed adjusted for energy shards

[wind spade]

I mean you can do any number of machines, if the site tells you e.g. 8.4 constructors, that means 840% in total, how you build it is up to you

[burnt topaz]

i know that technically i could just divide by 2.5 to get the machines required but dividing 89 Assemblers by 2,5 is just slower than having it shown immediatly

would be a nice QOL addon imo

[plucky tusk]

Might as well have him build it for u.

[wind spade]

the problem is that everybody could ask for any clock speed % 😄

[plucky tusk]

God forbid you do any math

People shouldnt have to do math you gotta tell them everything

Do the math for them

[burnt topaz]

its just a nice thing to have if he wants to implement it

most people will use 250% overclock

*incase they do use that feature

[plucky tusk]

I dont. I usually underclock tbh

But i never use planners anyway

Maybe 250% is something planner guys do

Idk yall are crazy to me sometimes

[unique cypress]

250% only costs 34% more power for the same output. With shards automated, I see no reason not to overclock absolutely everything

[plucky tusk]

Maybe bc i dont need it to be oc?

[spare tapir]

With shards automated only accounts for late game, early game it isn't the best idea

[plucky tusk]

Like if i only need like 10 items no reason to make 25

[unique cypress]

this isn't about making more, it's about making the same amount with fewer machines

[plucky tusk]

Well those problems get dealt with in planning and i dont usually plan to oc everything

[crimson moat]

The reason that it's only 1.34x the power cost is because the default power number is near the top of the curve.

Since most power is consumed by a small number of machines (overwhelmingly encoders and particle accelerators) it's pretty easy to run them at a clock which consumes half of the power of 250% and thus lowers your total world power by >33%. The alternative to that is to just build 50% more power, which takes more work.

So it's not just an efficiency benefit, but a practical one too.

[spare tapir]

don't forget the lag that gets reduced, due to the fewer machines

[pulsar plume]

what is this map thing?

[plucky tusk]

Psure its scim

[foggy tendon]

Is it a good tactic to decide to pull in raw ores by drone ports? ive got a drone airport that puts fuel into a bunch of drone ports and the plan is to send those drones out to where they can deposit the fuel into drone ports further away, is that a good idea? Or should I process the raw materials on site then drone port them? Or are drones bad for that overall? Just got back into the game after a couple of months and dont really remember the META.

[crimson moat]

yes and no, because machine count overall isn't a huge big issue - it's more like how many machines are within 100m of you simultaneously, and (for me at least) it only severely affects performance when that's like a thousand machines.

It's an issue of building density much more so than building count total on the map, stuff that's far away barely has any performance cost

[unique cypress]

depends how much. A single drone can only move up to ~500 ore/min at 0 distance and closer to 400 at 1km, decreasing at even longer distances

[crimson moat]

You can put a drone on port A with destination B, and one on B with destination A, and you can get that up to 800 or so. It does cost double the fuel, but fewer droneports and other logi.

[foggy tendon]

K. So they arent completely terrible, and I can just do 2 drone ports if really needed.

[unique cypress]

idk about 1.0, but I know for sure that this was absolutely not true in previous versions

[crimson moat]

Yeah, multiple ports is a very good idea

[foggy tendon]

Do you use drones to transport ore? Or do you belt everything in?

[crimson moat]

I did it in 1.0, first by accident, then i verified after that it actually does work that way. You get two drones on the same route and it moves twice as much (limit @ 1belt output/input speed, but you probably won't hit that - especially on a 1200 belt)

[crimson moat]

I belt where possible, drone is mostly for stuff that's 3 kilometers away and up a cliff. If i need 50 of those things and not 1200 then it's a big bonus to drones too.

[foggy tendon]

hang on, lemme check how much fuel production ive got, i think i built it up really big on a crude oil spot somewhere in a corner of my world.

[crimson moat]

Fuel type matters a lot for drones. They can go 9x further at almost 50% higher speed with rocket fuel than with regular fuel.

It takes about 2.5 rocket fuel per minute per drone to constantly fly a route so it's relatively easy to fuel a big drone farm.

[unique cypress]

My U8 save had at most 90 FPS, and less than 60 in large factories. But my PC is capable of running an empty world at 200+ FPS

[crimson moat]

There were MASSIVE performance changes after U8.

[unique cypress]

I noticed massive improvents going from U6 to U8, but not nearly as much U8 to 1.0

[crimson moat]

if you put 100k foundations in U8 it would kill the game, now it doesn't really affect fps

[unique cypress]

I had 102k lol

[crimson moat]

now i have 240fps standing in this factory (no framegen, max settings)

If you cram it into a sphere with too many machines close together and then you stand next to them, performance plummets

but game doesn't really care much if you have 1000 manufacturers and they are just on the other side of the map

better pic

looking down the factory with framegen

On the other hand, Zyranex has a save where everything is stacked into a tight cube, and the game runs like shit there 😄

BWD cube blueprints i think.

[foggy tendon]

K, so looks like ATM i am producing 7.5 circuit boards per minute, 5 computers, 5 motors, 5 smart plating, 2.5 automated wiring, 180 plastic, 360 rubber, 2 heavy modular frame, 300 bauxite/m worth of aluminium products, 11000 MW power and making packaged rocket fuel for self and drone use at 450/m. So what do I work on now? ha

[crimson moat]

mk.3 miners and a small amount of parts to build em

[foggy tendon]

I'm guessing I target aluminium production right afterward and get supercomputers/cooling systems?

[crimson moat]

and RCUs

[wooden jasper]

Is this factory vertical at all or just one large strip of foundation 😮

[foggy tendon]

K. Is 5 computers/min going to cut it or am i going to have to double my setups after I get those miners?

[crimson moat]

if you need more, just build them as part of e.g. supercomputer factory or w/e

[wooden jasper]

Uhh you're going to want more so you can get supercomputers faster I'd think

You'll need computers and supercomputers being produced bc computers are used for both supercomputers and radio control units

[foggy tendon]

K. So I guess ill probably port the existing computers into RCUs and make another factory elsewhere for the supercomputers. Should my 450/m rocket fuel be enough for my future drone needs?

[crimson moat]

It's enough for several hundred drones

you shouldn't get rid of your 5/min computers though. You still need those and always will.

[devout ingot]

quick question is 1800 packaged turbofuel enough for overall transportation fuel?

[foggy tendon]

So ive noticed youtubers like Nilaus like to main bus, is that really a requirement? Or is building in outposts like ive done pretty viable?

[amber umbra]

@foggy tendon YouTube people need content for compelling videos. Doing a huge, unwieldy main buss is one such compelling thing because of how absurd it is.

For practicality, independent outposts are recommended.

[plucky tusk]

I got a main bus and yeah its absurd. Everything is right here tho so thats nice at least

[wind spade]

I wouldn't really recommend following youtubers' ideas

[plucky tusk]

Unless you get payed to play

[wind spade]

as mentioned, they rarely do things out of practicality, but rather out of content-creation

[devout ingot]

you should see imkibitz's mega base, its already a spaghetti mess lmao

and its entirely just for pressure conversion cubes

[crimson moat]

The worst part is that he actually wouldn't need any of it if he used the right recipe

[devout ingot]

yea, i was like "he totally couldve just used lower tier items for his nuclear plant" lmao 💀

and pressure conversion cubes eat copper ingots for days

[crimson moat]

sec

[devout ingot]

my future power plant in question (totally not stuck on phase 3 of space elevator)

[crimson moat]

Plut Fuel Unit vs Fuel Rod.

The only benefit of top is more rods (i.e. more sink points). It's only a desirable recipe when you're burning plutonium and storing its waste. For wasteless via either sinking or ficsonium it's pretty terrible

[crimson moat]

that requires a LOT of SAM btw

[devout ingot]

i know that 😎

btw heres my model ive been working on for weeks

[crimson moat]

i need to clean up a bit 😄 (this is a no-crossing-lines layout, but i was checking something with the aluminum)

[thorn bane]

WTF

[vapid gorge]

You combine all the waste 🙂

It cycles up to 100%

[haughty barn]

holy ficsit

[versed violet]

Uh, how is the priority power switch order decided in the groups? I spent last five minutes trying to get the "label" switches with tier and circuit name on top, but they end up back on bottom after reopening the menu. Tried drag and drop reordering - does not work, tried adding A or _ in front - does not seem to be alphabetical, so its build order based or what?

[rich fox]

that looks really clean, whats it for?

[devout ingot]

the whole game

[rich fox]

damn

[vapid gorge]

this is what I mean when I say modeler takes 1000x as long to do anything with than just about any other tool

[knotty siren]

That is the biggest Mega I have seen in quite some time. Holy moly. Also how high up did you build it? Is it mainly a sky platform factory or smething else?

[fallow siren]

how much packaged rocket fuel consumed for each truck, assuming the trip is around 200-800m distances

i know drone consume like 2-3/min each trip

[visual yarrow]

if you record the route, it will tell you

[crimson moat]

It's just above the highest point of the map, and it has a mostly 2d layout. Cosmetics coming later(tm)

[knotty siren]

Oh I see.

[haughty barn]

I find it funny how little SAM you need for phase 5 if you plan it right

[crimson moat]

Yeah, entirely optional even i think. Sloops or overproduction of parts can provide DMR

[slow hawk]

nah, you need some for ficsite

[devout ingot]

how much did you plan for your endgame production because i cannot do twice this amount without headaches

[crimson moat]

Now that you said that, i think i made some ficsite for belts and stole some other ingots for other stuff 😛

[thorn bane]

thats A LOT
id do like 10/10 etc.

[crimson moat]

I spent a day basically going through recipies and seeing what i could do within certain constraints

and started fresh with full tech

[devout ingot]

ive tried doing twice that amount i showed with 400 to 200 to 100 clean nuclear plants but the numbers wouldnt go together right at all lmao

[fallow siren]

i do 10/min each for all phase 5 project parts

including 10/min pasta

[devout ingot]

i spent so much time trying to make this work because i saw a person producing 20 ballistic warp drives in reddit 💀

[thorn bane]

i made 20/min warp drives, slooped to 40
shits a megabase ok? even without the other 3

[crimson moat]

Yeah my BWD to finish was like 1 machine with oversloop 😄

[charred gulch]

Can someone help me out with what the best way is to hook up 3 water pumps to 8 coal generators? With mk.1 pipes

[fallow siren]

!wikisearch cg

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=cg

[charred gulch]

Thank you, that's extremely helpful.

And do you guys know how much lift is provided by just a water extractor?

[sturdy flower]

Am I missing something here?

I'm making 330 turbofuel / min. The packager off to the left is using 30/min and each gen is using 18.75 (15) however its not keeping up

[high timber]

Are you saying that the generators aren't getting the fuel but the refineries are getting what they need?

I have that problem a lot when dealing with anything to do with oil, normally I just have the pipes go over the generators and have the fuel drop down into the generators to avoid fluid weirdness.

[vapid gorge]

10m

[sturdy flower]

oh, that matters even if its flat?

[vapid gorge]

it's more pipe layout and gravity priority

[high timber]

Not really but it should help with sloshing, you can also just underclock the generators until the fill up then put them at normal clock speed once full

[vapid gorge]

you've technically got a kind of loop, but I see more issues w ith these sorts than the basic loop

pre filling also can help

[sturdy flower]

yeah i tried pre-filling just now

it seems to have helped?

[high timber]

You might want to check on it in a while and see if some of the generators stop getting fuel again

[sturdy flower]

🤦‍♂️

well that should fix it...

[high timber]

Was it not running?

[sturdy flower]

it was, at 120/min not 600 😂

[high timber]

You know, I think that number is a little low

[sturdy flower]

i dont have mk3 miners yet

[high timber]

You are using the pure node in that area right?

[sturdy flower]

yea

triple slugged mk2 is 600

and even if i had mk3, i'd be capped at 780 because of the belt speed

[visual yarrow]

I have an interesting situation going on right now... i'm getting my first nitrogen well set up, it's the one on the north coast of the rocky desert. I always find resource wells to be an interesting... "interesting" pipe challenge given that you usually end up with tons of different extractors at different elevations.

But this particular spot has mostly pure nodes but one normal node. And I just so happen to need exactly 150/m for the thing i'm currently working towards.... so I have a fully overclocked resource well pressurizer, using only a single node...

I should clarify when I said "pipe challenge", I meant aesthetically.

[vapid gorge]

use foundations to lay the pipe on it's own grid to organise it. helps a lot

[visual yarrow]

Oh, I do this. I just find that the transition from the extractors to the grid-aligned pipes is hard to get looking nice, especially when you're also trying to organize the pipes into something that is not a huge mess.

[vapid gorge]

could always try encasing the outputs in foundations and just have pipe holes in neat lined up spots

[kindred carbon]

Can you fit a HMF factory into a 6x6 bp?

[high timber]

You can fit one in 5x5 but you won't get very many

[brisk urchin]

with cliping everything is possible

and i mean that in a bad way (i hate cliping)

[high timber]

I just made a very slow HMF factory in a 5x5 blueprint designer without it clipping.

[brisk urchin]

dam

[high timber]

I never want to build anything like that again (it didn't clip but was still to messy for my unnecessarily high standards)

[brisk urchin]

i feel you, my friend loves cliping, he says its space efficient and looks clean

like... NO

[ripe wing]

yo i dont know how to solve this logistically

[vapid gorge]

Solve what?

[ripe wing]

oh sorry i forgot to continue

i got 10 assemblers and im making around 1k screws per minute

but assemblers want 100 screws per minute

and some of them are steel screws so 260 from one machine

rn i created this horrendeous thing

idk how to split them evenly because i cant just manifold them since one machine is enough for my belt to be full

[vapid gorge]

Make the screws right before they are used

[ripe wing]

even then im making 260 and 3 machines need 300

[vapid gorge]

So use clocking?

Use clocking everywhere. It’s the most powerful logistical tool you have

[unique cypress]

Get an alt that doesn't need screws :)

[ripe wing]

atp i feel like screws are there just so people learn to use alt recipes

[vapid gorge]

I mean it's very easy, Clock groups to use 260 screws per min

or clock yoru screw machiens to make 300 pm

or some cobination

[main thicket]

how do i fix the issue where refineries in a manifold dont push all the fluid out (turbofuel) and then the generators arent getting enough turbofuel to run?

[vapid gorge]

extremely basic clocking

[vapid gorge]

depends on your pipes. Show some overhead images of how you've connected your fuel gens. From high up

[main thicket]

alright one sec

might be confusing its just many manifolds and one manifold loop in case that fixed it

someone said add fluid buffers in front of every refinery

[vapid gorge]

that's not your generators

[vapid gorge]

and whoever told you this is your enemy

[main thicket]

oh you wanted the gens?

[vapid gorge]

you said it was the gens that were starving right?

[main thicket]

yeah one sec

basically gens are starving and refineries are idling because they back up

also gens are also manifold looped

also refineries to gens are 1:1 so techincally i could connect one refinery with 1 gen but that would be a massive cluster of pipes

[unique cypress]

There's exactly one recipe that uses screws that's imo worth using. Copper rotor. And even that isn't particularly amazing, it just trades ease of use for resource efficiency. The other screw-using recipes are meh at best and terrible at worst

[vapid gorge]

ok how many pipes from the refineries are you sending to your gens?

how much in each pipe?

[main thicket]

18.75 in each pipe and 71 pipes and one last that makes like 2. something for one underclocked gen

[wind spade]

To learn clocking and direct input

[main thicket]

so 72 pipes basically

[vapid gorge]

it looks like you have 3 pipes of fuel?

not 72

[main thicket]

yeah manifolded

[vapid gorge]

so you have 3 manifolds
how much in each

[main thicket]

600

[vapid gorge]

do you merge them at any point?
do they go to other floors?

[main thicket]

no they go straight down to the gens

they all connect with a manifold at the refineries and then merge into one carrying 600 and they split again at the gens.

[vapid gorge]

you're going to have to repipe things

make 1 snaking pipe along the group instead of splitting it

[main thicket]

whats that?

[vapid gorge]

you split it like this

go like this , no splitting

[main thicket]

alright

got it

[vapid gorge]

and loop the pipe like this

[main thicket]

perfect

no valves on the loop right?

[vapid gorge]

no valves ever

[summer flare]

Is highly possible to distribute the screws to the assemblers without changing the clocking. You've got 10 assemblers each needing 100/min screws, what are screw source rates; looks like you have two side sources of something and 5 constructors producing what?

[unique cypress]

It's always possible. Just use a balancer

[frigid maple]

my first time trying to make a calculated coal generator factory

[brisk urchin]

i strongly suggest not overcomplicating stuff in early or even mid game

just figure stuff out without tools, just a calculator will do

[frigid maple]

didnt i use a calculator

i calculated how much my miner needs to output

using that graph

[vapid gorge]

try a basic coal layout

!wikisearch CG

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[brisk urchin]

the point is you used more than just a calculator

[vapid gorge]

eh, planners are fine, though modeler is easily the worst

[brisk urchin]

kind of was my point

[frail sigil]

Why no valves?

[vapid gorge]

you were generalising all planners

[brisk urchin]

i even get confused by it sometimes

[vapid gorge]

valves have hidden mechanics and don't function like people think they do

for example you know what restricts flow in a pipe better than a valve? the machines set to use that amoutn of fluid per min

[brisk urchin]

you saying you suggest a new player to use planers? wokld be a litle overwhelming dont ya think

[frigid maple]

why

[vapid gorge]

why is it the worst? terrible user interface and takes 1000x times longer to make plans.

the only 'benefit' is putting down things like splitters on it. Which takes a long time

When you have a perfectly built planning simulator inside the game

[vapid gorge]

essentially there's always a more reliable and easier way to do things that don't involve valves.

[frigid maple]

oh so its just a you problem

[vapid gorge]

everything in the game has a learning curve - most planner's learning curve are fairly light

[vapid gorge]

a terrible user interface is an everyone problem, as well as taking, literally, 1000x longer to do anything

it's popular because the author slapped it onto steam

[frigid maple]

i dont think it has terrible ui and just cuz you take long on it doesnt mean others do
it is a you problem

[vapid gorge]

then you have little experience using planners

and thus not going to care much about your opinion

[frigid maple]

damn

idk it works for me

[vapid gorge]

and thats a you problem

[frigid maple]

so anyways how did i complicate thing? i just did a combination of stuff ive seen from memory

looks fine to me

[unique cypress]

the machine counts first of all. why 1+1/9 and not just 1?

[oblique hollow]

why 7

[unique cypress]

the normal consumption rate is 15 coal, 45 water. way more convenient than 16+2/3 and 50

[oblique hollow]

That piping is dysfunctional

Too much water merged into 1 pipe segment

[frigid maple]

thats the modeler calculations
i just recreated the factory and told it how much water i want in the coal gens

[frigid maple]

so what do i do

[oblique hollow]

Split it up

Insert some of the water from a different point

[frigid maple]

how do i know how many

[oblique hollow]

Do not merge all 3 extractors into the same segment

[oblique hollow]

If its more than 300/min its too much, simple as that

You merged 3 extractors, thats 360

so 2 works
the other one has to be merged later down the line

[frigid maple]

cant i just underclock them?

[oblique hollow]

And then you dont have enough water

[vapid gorge]

They were given example layouts above shrug

[oblique hollow]

Your gens need a set amount of water, do they not?

[frigid maple]

but i wanna learn

tutorial jockey

[oblique hollow]

You gotta meet their demand while respecting pipe throughout limits, thats all there is to this

How exactly you do it is your puzzle to solve in the end

Im just telling you that this attempt wouldnt work

For the reasons stated above.
3 extractors at 100% is too much water for 1 pipe segment to carry

[frigid maple]

so what do i need to take in mind when i calculate
water output and gens inputs all togethre?

[oblique hollow]

Yes..?

[frigid maple]

ok ill be right back

oh btw ive seen people use quick search as a calculator
whats the quick search hotkey?

[unique cypress]

N

[frigid maple]

oki

what symbol do i use for multipication

i know / is subtraction

[steel obsidian]

* (asterix)

[unique cypress]

it's not

[frigid maple]

so what is it

[unique cypress]

• is addition, - is subtraction, * is multiplication, / is division

[frigid maple]

DIVISIONNNN

same thing english is stupid anyways

[haughty barn]

English is indeed stupid

[frigid maple]

what does it mean it costs a hard drive

[unique cypress]

... it costs a hard drive

[frigid maple]

so i need to waste a hard drive on it instead of getting its recipes

[unique cypress]

then don't

regular fuel is a good source of power anyway

[plain rivet]

every time you select a recipe you waste a hard drive on that recipe

[frigid maple]

yea

[plain rivet]

this is another one.

[frigid maple]

i dont like the hard drive system

i thought ficsit doesnt waste

[unique cypress]

there's more HDDs than you could possibly use

[frigid maple]

still i dont like that theres a limited amount

[plain rivet]

what did you want to do with infinite hard drives?

[frigid maple]

yes

[unique cypress]

you can buy them in the shop so they are infinite

[frigid maple]

we built a space elevator
i think we can save a few recipes

[unique cypress]

doing that is a waste of tickets tho

[frigid maple]

really?

[frigid maple]

tickets are infinite

[unique cypress]

in tier 8, but yes

[frigid maple]

:(

[plain rivet]

so just trolling now since nobody agreed that spending a hard drive in the mam was a big deal. got it

if you hate the rng of it, the MAM version is actually better. imagine there was a giant list of recipes and you just spent a hard drive to unlock the ones you wanted

[slow hawk]

theres 5 extra on the map

[frigid maple]

should be more

[unique cypress]

what for, even?

[frigid maple]

for looking at

[unique cypress]

you can't use them anyway

[frigid maple]

also what if they add more recipes in the future

what will they do then

[unique cypress]

then they'll add more hard drives

[frigid maple]

but how theres only 1 handmade map

[unique cypress]

they've added 5 crash sites in 1.0, they can add more again

[oblique hollow]

They can just put them in more hard to reach places

[haughty barn]

A lot of the alternates are hot garbage though

Petroleum diamonds are less oil efficient than oil based diamonds, while taking more steps

[frigid maple]

ficsit doesnt waste
hot garbage is data storage waste

but ig the harddrives were the friends we made along the way

[haughty barn]

The only thing that is enforced to not waste is waste

[haughty barn]

True

[wind spade]

and the map gets changed when needed

[slow hawk]

(maybe its cause im lategame but) hard drives can also be bought from the awesome shop

[unique cypress]

Yeah, that gets unlocked by particle enrichment (plutonium)

[haughty barn]

screw that, exploration is based

[slow hawk]

yess, I uncovered the whole map while finding hardrives very satisfying

[devout ingot]

until you do a 4th playthrough and just skip to 6 tier like imkibitiz

[sharp knoll]

Do you guys bother with max throughput pipes? I feel like anything over 500 and things start to get fucky

[wind spade]

it's very much possible to use them at max capacity, but no point in maxing just for the sake of maxing imo

[sharp knoll]

I feel a little silly struggling to get a full 600 oil a minute from these extractors

[unique cypress]

My standard aluminium setup relies on a 600/min pipe and every time I build it, it works fine

[sharp knoll]

Guess it’s a skill issue, is there some pipe physics guidebook? It seems pretty obfuscated compared it everything else in the game

[steel obsidian]

there's a link to a pipeline manual in the pinned messages here

[burnt topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/essp-enderblitz-galahad-slumber-party-why-isnt-it-possible-gif-25649259

HELP

fukin connect

[oblique hollow]

general tip: if you want stability, dont use mk 2 pipes where mk 2 pipes arent needed
sure, the pipe that moves 600/min needs to be mk 2
but if you connect that to a bunch of machines that only consume 60/min each? those machines dont need mk 2 pipe connections

[sharp knoll]

wait really? I use mk 2s for everything, so it's harder to accidentally place a mk 1 where it shouldnt be

[oblique hollow]

yeah do not use mk 2 for literally everything

that just turns to shit

[burnt topaz]

w h y

[oblique hollow]

because the pipes will oscillate because mk 2 pipes move things twice as fast

[burnt topaz]

that is upsetting

[oblique hollow]

if you dont need more than 300/min, dont use mk 2 pipes

[burnt topaz]

why couldnt you say this an hour earlier

[sharp knoll]

time to revamp my oil refinery plant

[oblique hollow]

cause thats when im at work

[burnt topaz]

hmm fair point

[oblique hollow]

pipe algorithm is complex and as a result of how they implemented pipes and flow speed mk 2 pipes just oscillate harder when full

[frigid maple]

@unique cypress @oblique hollow
my coal gen factory worked perfectly
"overcomplicated too much water split it up" my ass

i just added some buffers and underclocked it so each extractor will do 100m^3 /min

[oblique hollow]

i didnt pay much attention after - did you change it?
it was throughput blocked initially after all

[frigid maple]

all the changes i did was underclocked the extractors.. which you said will make it not enough water

[burnt topaz]

Is this a good size for HMF factory?

[frigid maple]

but i might change the coal distributuion

[oblique hollow]

well, again, depends on how much the generators say they need

[frigid maple]

i dont like manifolds very much

[oblique hollow]

i cant read modeler graphs so i have no clue what you set up - i just went from what i read here and the image

[brisk urchin]

yes size, the belts gotta be a litle bit more designed in my opinion

[unique cypress]

Depends how much you're making in there and how much you need

[frigid maple]

its not that hard
lines are conveyors/pipes
and the buildings are whatever the image is

[burnt topaz]

making 100 per min

[oblique hollow]

yeah but the numbers can be whatever

[burnt topaz]

this is a bit messy tbf

[frigid maple]

guys why do people reccomend the manifold system so much
i dont like it

[oblique hollow]

because its easy to build

and doesnt need more splitter math

[brisk urchin]

how many prio mergers are there 🤨

[frigid maple]

in my factories everyone is equal! :communism:

[burnt topaz]

5

[oblique hollow]

all i do know is that if you do provide 116.666/min coal, you need 350/min water to keep all generators stable

so whatever you did for your coal plant .... keep an eye on it

[frigid maple]

dont worry i have it under control
im just gonna add more generators and spread the coal equally and im done

[oblique hollow]

surely nothing can go wrong with that

[burnt topaz]

combining 5 belts with different inputs into 2 full belts and 1 extra isnt that clean to setup

[brisk urchin]

eeh... idk it could be better than like you did

but alr

[frigid maple]

hey! my last coal gen factory worked perfectly with that! ... until i had water problems BUT THATS UNRELATED

[unique cypress]

I'd just do a 5:3 balancer

[oblique hollow]

toooootally unrelated

[burnt topaz]

its actually a 6:4 balancer with one having a priority over the others

[frigid maple]

youll see

[burnt topaz]

but i didnt have the space to build that

[frigid maple]

i just realised theres crude oil right next to my coal gen factory
so when i upgrade i dont need to move :)

[unique cypress]

You don't even need priority usually. Just less consumption

[slow hawk]

@oblique hollow very cool pipe guide 👍

[frigid maple]

@oblique hollow isnt this beautiful

everyone is equal!

[oblique hollow]

the split into 9 is still odd.
was that just aestehtic choice? 8 is usually the number that works well with coal generators

[frigid maple]

no its 9 because each splitter has 3 exists and i want everyone to be equal

[oblique hollow]

oh so you dont like doing halves with splitters

[frigid maple]

i do
in this case of the coal gen factory i dont

[oblique hollow]

so it was aesthetic / purely for fun here then anyway

[frigid maple]

no i just want a lot of generators

it will now be 18 because I WANT THE POWERRR ⛈️

9*2=18 im smart right?

[lament vigil]

Which one should I do next? (ik its not exactly math but Im curious)

[slow hawk]

power infrastructure has batteries, helpful if power usage is variable

[haughty barn]

Blueprints

[velvet bramble]

if you've got a good water source the pure alts are "just better" right?

[haughty barn]

Yeah

[unique cypress]

Well, not exactly, they take a lot of refineries, and therefore a lot of space and power

[haughty barn]

But they do take more power

They are the most resource efficient

[burnt topaz]

@unique cypress do you have a 6 to 6 balancer? 5 full belts at 1200/m and one at 400/m

[slow hawk]

leached has a slightly higher yield (barely, ok but with caterium)

[frigid maple]

i only did blueprints since i wanted to see if the infinite water glitch i sw once worked (it didnt)

[unique cypress]

Only leached caterium iirc

[slow hawk]

yeah caterium has an awesome yield

[unique cypress]

As long as the 400/min belt actually consumes 400 and no more, then yeah

[slow hawk]

leached 1.5:1 vs pure 2:1
25% more

[velvet bramble]

oh shoot i completely forgot i'd need refineries and not just good ol smelters

[burnt topaz]

well i need to balance it so all 6 belts have the same

[brisk urchin]

the recepies for ingots i use is pure copper, leached caterium and leached iron

[burnt topaz]

i.e. all belts should have 1133 per min

this is for a train station, therefore overflow wont work

[unique cypress]

Oh, those are inputs.

Then yeah, a normal balancer will work fine

[burnt topaz]

you have one for 6 on 6?

[unique cypress]

Yeah. Do you know how to build a 2:2 and a 3:3?

[burnt topaz]

no

[velvet bramble]

really excited to use this bolted frame alt (this message paid for by Big Screw™)

[burnt topaz]

I could probably figure it out for the 2:2

but idk about 3:3

[plain rivet]

25% less? 33% more?

[slow hawk]

ye less comsumed mb

[frigid maple]

BEHOLD! TRUE COMMUNISM

[unique cypress]

2:2 is 2 splitters, 2 mergers. 2 outputs of each splitter connected to one of the mergers each, third input and third output of each splitter disconnected.

3:3 is similar except you use all 3 inputs/outputs and connect each of the splitter's outputs to a different merger. Repeat for all 3 splitters

[frigid maple]

@oblique hollow

[plain rivet]

still don't like leached. not that I ever end up building as big is my plans, but seems like iron and caterium aren't things i'm usually short on when planning, but sulfur is

[burnt topaz]

Wouldnt that only partially get split onto the 400 belt?

[unique cypress]

Those are just 2:2 and 3:3. A 6:6 is made from 3 2:2s and 2 3:3s

Or 6 2:2s and 2 3:3s if you need a TU but you don't

[burnt topaz]

I could do 8:6 too if thats easier

[frigid maple]

guys do i eat dinner or continue working on my coal gen factory?
one i need to be alive
the other i need to keep all my factories alive

[unique cypress]

It's not

[oblique hollow]

congrats on your brutalism block

[frigid maple]

this is actually the first time i used walls in satisfactory

[oblique hollow]

which is odd because sulfur isnt that much required unless you overdose on certain known sulfur guzzlers

[burnt topaz]

hm i got another idea

yea i got something easier

[unique cypress]

@burnt topaz there you go, a totally readable diagram

[plain rivet]

define overdose i guess. if you want to try to do all the phase 5 stuff just to do it, seems like it needs a lot of sulfur

[burnt topaz]

that looks much more complicated than what i did

[oblique hollow]

like?
Nuclear is the only one that needs lots of it.
all other sulfur is for alternates and such. Like turbo or rocket fuel
not even batteries take a lot

[burnt topaz]

I just did 3:6, 2:6 and 1:6 and then combined all

[plain rivet]

yeah, mainly wasteless nuclear

[oblique hollow]

yeah im not surprised much, but even nuclear saves sulfur quite well.

[burnt topaz]

the wiring was a bit tight

i just did 5:6 in the end

sinking that 400 concrete/m

or gonna use it when actually needed

[unique cypress]

Doing a full 5:6 is much harder than 6:6

[burnt topaz]

well i did a 5:6 and it was very easy

[unique cypress]

Well, you definitely didn't do a 5:6 balancer

[burnt topaz]

all 5 belts are running at full capacity and all containers are filled at the same rate

[unique cypress]

Some contraption that takes in 5 belts and spits out 6, sure

But not a balancer

[burnt topaz]

no, theyre perfectly balanced

[unique cypress]

Because the inputs are equal

[burnt topaz]

well yea

[unique cypress]

A balancer works even if they aren't

[burnt topaz]

still doesnt sound very hard

just combine all belts into minimum amount of full belt + 1 extra belt, then split those belts on 6 and do a 1:6 at the end

granted, it wouldnt be universal

[unique cypress]

Probably wouldn't be input balanced

[burnt topaz]

well thats why you filted everything into the minimum amount of full belts

i.e. fill 4200 per min into 3 belts and 600 belt

then do 3:6 and 1:6, then add together

[unique cypress]

Imma be honest, 99% of the time someone has an idea for a "simpler" balancer, it has issues

[burnt topaz]

yea its not universal

it only works for specific items per mins

well a range of items per min

[unique cypress]

Then it's not a balancer

[burnt topaz]

it is a balancer, it just works with limited range of item only

[unique cypress]

Just because the outputs are equal, doesn't mean it's a balancer

[burnt topaz]

Why not? whats the difference to a balancer?

[unique cypress]

A balancer means equal priority outputs, equal priority inputs, and full belt capacity

Otherwise merging everything onto one belt and bottlenecking it to all hell would be a "balancer"

[burnt topaz]

well belts have a limit

[unique cypress]

Input and output belts do

The internals are supposed to be designed in a way that doesn't limit it below the i/o belts

Even the one I sent isn't fully correct

But you didn't need a fully correct one

The point of using a balancer is so you don't have to care about the item rates on any of the belts. You just paste it from a BP and it works, always

Making one that doesn't always work kinda defeats the purpose

[plain rivet]

i look now and in reality it's not that much. i'm only using total about 2000 not counting ammo stuff. maybe it's more local scarcity plus a dose of laziness. setting up sulfuric acid to make caterium ingots when by the time that's available, the 2 caterium nodes i've already got going into the pure ingot recipe makes enough to finish the game.

[oblique hollow]

yeah sulfur tends to me more of a resource thats just harder to find, but its not used much either.

Which is also why alchemy is so funny

[plucky tusk]

Leached copper goes hard. Only needed like 800 copper ore for my copper powder

[plain rivet]

leached copper is I think the only one that actually gives you less ingots per ore than the pure recipe

[versed violet]

Why not just copper alloy it? Iron is everywhere

[plucky tusk]

Wait really?

I never did the math just assumed it would be better

[plain rivet]

it's a lot fewer refineries, but pure uses less copper

[unique cypress]

pretty sure leached iron is also less efficient

[plain rivet]

at scale anyway

[unique cypress]

no, it's slightly more efficient

[frigid maple]

ITS FINALLY ALIVE

I DID IT

[unique cypress]

pure is 1 ore to 1.85 ingots, leached is 1:2

[plucky tusk]

Aight guess next time i need copper powder ill do pure lol

[unique cypress]

pure copper is 1:2.5, leached is 2.(4)

[frigid maple]

someone please acknowledge me

[unique cypress]

pure caterium is 1:0.5, leached is 1:0.(6)

[haughty barn]

you exist

[frigid maple]

^w^

[plain rivet]

unless you're absolutely min-maxing the map, all options are reasonable really. but pure copper gives you more ingots for your copper ore spent and water is generally considered "cheaper" than iron

but it's a ton of space and power

[frigid maple]

im gonna cry

whyyy

i dont wanna troubleshoot

not enough coal? not enough water? TELL ME

[unique cypress]

The gens will tell you lol

[frigid maple]

its not enough coal
what do i do? the miner is tuned to the right amount of coal per minute

[plain rivet]

i see it splitting into 9 belts it looks like....

not a standard number you see in coal setups

[frigid maple]

so theyre all spread equally

its 18 coal gens

270/min

see?

[unique cypress]

That doesn't look like 270/min

[plain rivet]

that woudl be 135, it's 9 of them

[plucky tusk]

They all mk1 belts

[frigid maple]

maybe its cuz its mk 2 belts.. half the path

[plucky tusk]

U need mk3 for 270

[frigid maple]

oh yea well.. YOU NEED MK3 FOR 270

lemme go to base to see what do i need for mk3

long way to base

[unique cypress]

!wikisearch milestones

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=milestones

[unique cypress]

Scroll down to logistics 3

[frigid maple]

I DONT HAVE 400 REINFORCED IRON PLATES

[plucky tusk]

Idk that whole thing is cursed

[frigid maple]

guys how much time will it take to hand craft 400 reinforced iron plates

[wind spade]

automate, don't handcraft 🙂

[unique cypress]

Why would you handcraft anything past onboarding???

[frigid maple]

but to automate i need power
for power i need mk3

[wind spade]

why would you need mk3 for power?

[frigid maple]

maybe cuz im making a power plant that needs 270 coal/min

[wind spade]

multiple nodes, mk1/2 belts, easy

or make a smaller power plant that uses 120 for the automation, then upgrade it to 270

[frigid maple]

just look up here

[frigid maple]

smaller power plant? NEVER!

oh btw guys even if i did get mk3 i have 47 smart plates

[plain rivet]

mk3 belts need steel beams

[frigid maple]

really?

i dont remember that

i have 134 steel beams

[plain rivet]

i mean, you still have to unlock it. you might want to automate steel too

[frigid maple]

i did automate everything
but i need power for it

but i need to automate for power

i hate this game

do i just grind biomass?

they should add bicycle power

would be funny

[plain rivet]

that thing you built is sputtering but it should generate a minimum power level that you're still well under

[frigid maple]

thx for telling me that since i was not going to calculate that i was just going to hook it up and see if it shuts down

[versed violet]

Not a fan of the size and power usage, and finishing the game building just refineries for everything is kinda boring.

[frigid maple]

why is this one in specific clogged

i thought i made a communist haven

like excuse me

i need sleep

enough satisfactory for today