math-and-meta

[wind spade]

I'm confused, wdym by this?

[thorn bane]

and some have more use cases than others
which makes picking them better

[wind spade]

use cases of a recipe depend on target production and other recipes

[old hearth]

not really it all depends on the situation

[thorn bane]

and some situations you encounter more often

[wind spade]

classic example: some people have sulfur issues and some consider sulfur free because it's useless to them. It usually boils down to whether or not are they doing TF-based fuel

[thorn trail]

Did you read Animal Farm by George Orwell? That is almost an exact quote from the end of the book. "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

[wind spade]

and based on this, some people rank sulfur-using recipes as bad, some as good

[thorn bane]

you know he meant that as a meme right?'
last time i checked this discord wasnt 1940s kommunism

[old hearth]

you arre not very goiod at defneding your points ngl

[thorn bane]

like what was the last situation you had extra oil to us tempered caterium
compared to what was the last time you had extra space to build smelters for solid steel

[wind spade]

get used to it

[old hearth]

my 2nd factory i built

i will screenshot if you dont believe me

[fluid vector]

greeny can have any opinion because he built satisfactory tools and that's 100000 karma

[thorn bane]

how can you not say that the first situation is more common that another

[old hearth]

fair fair

[thorn bane]

im not saying it doesnt happen
im saying its more common

[old hearth]

true but it doesnt necessarily make it better, it makes it good in that case

[thorn bane]

so why pick the recipe that youre most likely not gonna use except for some rare niche case
compared to picking one thats very like youre gonna use

[old hearth]

bbecause why not use it in the niche its useful for

[wind spade]

and the fact that other people see that more often doesn't mean you will in your playthrough

which again loops to "it depends on your preferences, not average preference of the majority"

[thorn bane]

because you dont have all recipes

if we had all then ye nobody would ask "whats better"

[old hearth]

then its not in that niche

[thorn bane]

what do you mean?

[old hearth]

it wasnt useful for that niche because you didnt have it

[thorn bane]

wait what
the question is what recipe do you pick
how does saying "if you dont pick one then its useless" help?
im confused

[wind spade]

eh I try to not use that as a "my opinion is valid" card, but it's definitely one of the things that shown me how variable the preferences can be (speaking about how I've tinkered with the Tools + other unfinished projects and even tried to make a "tier list", or rather some sort of recipe analyser in the past)

[old hearth]

but that doesnt make it worse becaus eyou dont have it say you didnt unlock solid steel until tier 7, you have to build a steel factory anyways os why not try another alt

[old hearth]

I think the opinion that almost no opinion is better than another is a very good opinion

if that makes sense

[thorn bane]

im just saying the opinion "choose what ever it doesnt matter all recipes are the same" is bad
there absolutely is a better choice
if you think rerolling ads no value what so ever then youre just wrong in my opinion

[wind spade]

yeah, while I'm defending my opinion and arguing about arguments of other people, in the end obviously all opinions are valid 😉 but if we were just shouting our opinions over each other, then this channel would be kinda useless 😄

[wind spade]

if talking about "which one of these two offered choices do I pick", then I'm not saying "choose whatever", I'm saying "choose the one that you want to use next". But yes, if you don't really know and don't need any right now, flipping a coin is imo much better way to go about it, because you get a new recipe which incentivises you more towards trying to use it, which incentivises exploration of possibilities. And who knows, maybe you accidentally find a good combo (for you), which you wouldn't otherwise because you blindly followed other people's opinions

[thorn bane]

idk if someone asks for help, answering with "figure it out yourself" isnt really the right approach imo

[old hearth]

you can give advice but there is no one way to get through with the game

[wind spade]

95% I do that, people are fine with that answer, because 95% of time people think there's a single best choice

and they are asking about that, not knowing that people have different opinions and practically any recipe choice is valid if they like it

[old hearth]

i only like to recomend people get HOR diluted fuel recycled products and solid steel as they are insane qol and power. Everything else is all subjective and preference

[thorn bane]

thats all im asking for
give advice
thats literally what im doing
#math-and-meta message
#math-and-meta message
my whole point is that saying #math-and-meta message
"pick any that you like, there's not really "good" or "bad" recipes"
is the wrong advice to give

[old hearth]

again not really. You can give advice of what YOU think is better but that is not the objective way for everyone

[fluid vector]

so greeny whats the canned response to this #satisfactory message

[thorn bane]

thats not what im saying?

[thorn bane]

imo theres others as well
heavy encased frame
oil diamonds
heat exchanger
electrode alu scrap
classic battery

[old hearth]

electrode scrap incorperates sulfur which is used for power, oil diamonds are better than petrol diamonds but again, situationa you have to have oil, heavy frames logistics are annoying at times , heat exchanger adds oil which may not always bbe easily within the area and classic battery again adds oil and make logistic more annoying to some. Give me any recipe i can tells you upsides and downsides of it

[amber umbra]

I do agree that the weird tone responded to newbies asking for recipe choice tips isn’t great. Better to not respond then say things that come across as impatient, etc.

[thorn bane]

electrode scrap just switched coal and petr. coke

[old hearth]

wai t mb i mixed up the recipes

[amber umbra]

The “how do we respond to recipe choice from new players” is a different topic than the recipe comparisons stuff.

[old hearth]

though it does again incorperate oil which may sometimes be hard

[thorn bane]

how are heavy encased logistics different to default?
they use the same items
steel frames and concrete

[old hearth]

i've found them to personally be more annoying, though more effiecient

[thorn bane]

well ye i also didnt use recycled plubber and solid steel in my last playthrough since i wanted to reduce buildings so i went with rubber->recycled and coke steel since it makes 100/min
so i literally wasnt using your "recommended recipes"
that doesnt mean that i wouldnt recommend them to players

[old hearth]

i didntsay you have to use those recipes i said i personally think they are some of the best

[fierce ruin]

thoughts? opinions?

rescan is available

im almost done with phase 1

only other alt i currently have is cast screws

[old hearth]

I like iron wire and it can be usefl in the future to save copper but if yuou want to know the truth any of them can be good

[thorn bane]

1: both are decent
copper rotor is very resource efficient but requires harder logistics, i personally like it though
iron wire is nice but it uses too many buildings for my liking, 22.5/min is kinda rough
2: bolted recipes are fine if you use steel screw to reduce buildings but it does increase iron cost so up to you
i also prefer stiched/adhered iron plate for reinforced iron plates since those reduce iron usage by a lot
id reroll 2 and choose copper rotor

[fierce ruin]

got it thank you

i dont even have copper sheets yet but i got it lmao

fuck

do i just keep this one so i dont get these alts on my next drives

[thorn bane]

xD
cheap + slow vs expensive + fast

[old hearth]

iron wire is honely goated, but if you dont wnat them dave them for now

[thorn bane]

id say so but they arent terrible

[wind spade]

obviously asking for opinions is fine, but in general I'd recommend just picking whichever you like more (or want to use or whatever), or just flip a coin or keep until you have more info

[fierce ruin]

should i get iron wire? i mean i am in the rocky desert so lots of iron -- helps me keep the copper sheet for copper rotors going ig?

[thorn bane]

you can but did you actually run out of copper? i feel like just getting more copper is easier

[fierce ruin]

im at the red dot

[thorn bane]

ive actually never started in rocky desert xD

[fierce ruin]

my first time

[thorn bane]

i mean yeah if you run out of copper you can use iron wire but you dont need that much
also i like fused wire which uses caterium and copper to reduce copper usage while still being fast

[wind zinc]

id get copper rotor if i were you

[meager grove]

hello ⁠math-and-meta
suppose, for a moment, I have a smelter array producing 960"* iron ingots and I want it to produce everything iron I'd want (except reinforced iron plates)
supposedly as well, I have access to copper at a rate of 240" copper ingots, and if needed can easily bring in resources from right below to the machines where it's needed
what should I make and in what amount for a factory producing a massive amount of relatively basic materials?
*shorthand for '/min', or rather, for 'min' as in 960*minute iron ingots, which is equivalent to 960 iron ingots/min, it's... complicated, I already spoke all about it in #design-and-architecture once

[old hearth]

is this going to storage or for a larger factory

[meager grove]

eueuuhh, kinda both

my intent is to both pump a decent amount into dimensional storage

[old hearth]

how simpkle of resources and what do you anna use them for

[meager grove]

and to, at later points, use a good chunk of this to train it off to wherever iron is needed but not necessarily present

[meager grove]

iron plates, iron rods, screws... not really? nah, not really, reinforced iron plates are gonna be covered by another thing right next to it, rotors, modular frames, copper wire, cables, copper sheets

[old hearth]

personally i think its better to make resources as simple as that on site, but i also build significantly larger builds than most people

[meager grove]

and I guess some stators for building would be nice with iron pipe

this is mostly just a question of

[old hearth]

you want a few screws for equipment workshop stuff

[meager grove]

"I need a shit ton of this specific resource and it'd be easier to just deliver it than make a whole new production chain there"

[meager grove]

eehhh, atp I can just handcraft them from rods

[old hearth]

truss me even like 52/ min would be awesome

[meager grove]

because the only other time screws would be used that's not in a production chain already involving iron or steel is the AWESOME sink and AWESOME shop

and atp even if I need to deliver, I can just deliver rods enmasse instead of screws

[old hearth]

i personally dont really know, i dont know enought about it. if you have enough ingots jsut ship the ingots to the sites they are needed and build later

[meager grove]

so ideally I'll only make as many screws as are needed for making the modular frames

[meager grove]

thing is, I started this save with AGS and no build cost in order to uh. get progress that I spent way too much on at first

and to have a good foothold to get into t5 and oil with

[old hearth]

ags?

[meager grove]

advanced game settings

the thing is, I wanna turn no build cost off at some point

and I'd like to have materials available to build with before I advance to phase 3 and t5

and I can't really skip ahead to a steel factory without making an iron materials factory, sooo... that's why I have this

[old hearth]

i dont honestly know man i just pick abritrary amounts and work with it

[meager grove]

thing is, I want to use up the 960" iron ingots I have in this smelter array

[old hearth]

how do i put this, thats not a lot so it really does not matter

[proven pawn]

Thank goodness, a more simpler factory
cant wait for heavy modular frames

[unique cypress]

Wait until you see the optimal oil recipe chain lmao

[unique cypress]

And HMFs are actually easy if you use the right recipes

[proven pawn]

bro

[proven pawn]

nuh uh, i think ill stick to my slightly inefficient factory :D

[unique cypress]

Add DPF and it's even more cursed

[old hearth]

Its not actually that hard

[proven pawn]

but the base recipe is just fine right?

[old hearth]

It's 3.5x times worse

[unique cypress]

Unfortunately, it's not "slightly". The full recycling loop is 4.5 times more oil efficient

[proven pawn]

dotn wanna go hard drive hunting yet
last time i did that- i encountered a big spider

[old hearth]

4.5 mb

[old hearth]

Turn on arachnophobia

[proven pawn]

damn

[proven pawn]

oo i didnt know about that

[unique cypress]

It allows you to make HMFs. And that's everything good I can say about it. It's expensive as all hell and it uses a ton of screws.

Switching to heavy encased frame will make your factory half the size and half the price

[old hearth]

It's doesn't make them any less scary it just makes them cat holograms instead of spiders

[wind spade]

yeah

[proven pawn]

fk screws

[old hearth]

Not this again

[old hearth]

They are nice if you have steel screws

[wind spade]

?

[proven pawn]

doesent solve the problem of having thousands of screws

[wind spade]

that's not a problem though?

[unique cypress]

Heavy encased frame does :)

[proven pawn]

yeah but having a lower level belts make it slightly more complicated when the screws dont fit in 1 belt

[unique cypress]

I mean it's only really a problem if you OC

[wind spade]

they need 240/min, that's mk3 belt

[old hearth]

260

[proven pawn]

ah

[old hearth]

but it stills fits on a mk 3

[wind spade]

base HMF needs 240/min

[old hearth]

mb i thought u mean steel screws alt

[unique cypress]

If you do 1 or 2 manufacturers per belt, the screw logistics are fine, but it doesn't change how ridiculously expensive base HMF is, and Heavy Flexible Fram isn't much cheaper. If you can use Heavy Encased Frame, use it.

[proven pawn]

alrighty then
guess ill have to get hard drives

what other alts should i lookout for? im at phase 2

[last quail]

Trying to design a basic Iron production line as I've just reached Phase 2 and I wish to expand. The feed is 180P/M of iron on MK1 Miners no Overclock with it being fed by a load balancer into 6 smelters then moving into 2 separate lines producing Iron Rods and Iron Plates. 9 constructers for the iron rods so I can split half into screws to craft RIP, I also have a splitter on the iron plates not shown in the basic sketch.
Thoughts on how to improve on this?

[amber umbra]

If it automatically makes the items you want it to make then it's good. If "load balancer" is Factorio style balancers then definitely learn "satisfactory manifolds". Makes routing belts much simpler.

Otherwise, you rapidly unlock a lot of tools around that point in the game, so just keep progressing through the tech tree without overthinking things.

[last quail]

I've tried a manifold on a lineup really close to this and it didn't work I think my math was off but I had it running for over an hour and I was still only running on maybe 50% of the productivity compared to me testing it on a load balancer and it ran fine

[amber umbra]

Even more of a reason to learn manifolds.

[last quail]

Oh wait

I've just ran the math again it was because I was using MK1 conveyers on a line up that needed MK2 to run afloat

[amber umbra]

That would do it, yup.

[last quail]

That's why I never reached max efficiency on my smelters alone otherwise It's a case of learning how to split everything ensuring each section gets the appropriate speed of items.........

Great tore my entire set up down for this

[unique cypress]

All of them, ideally, so you can choose whichever one you want. Only biocoal and charcoal are almost completely useless, the rest can be useful in at least some situations

I suggest using Satisfactory Tools so you can figure out which ones exactly you want to use

[wind spade]

manifold will work the same as a balancer

[proven pawn]

finally finished this mess of a factory

[unique cypress]

When making oil products, make sure to always sink everything you're not using. Depending on the build, letting one thing back up could cause the other items to stop as well

[viral sparrow]

colour coding, this pleases me

[viral sparrow]

smart splitters my beloved

[proven pawn]

ye i need smart splitters first for the overflow option

i can use normal splitters but thats just crazy inefficient

[unique cypress]

You can make a smart-ish splitter with regular splitters and mergers, but 1) it's not perfect, 2) an actual smart splitter is smaller and well, just one thing

[proven pawn]

that sounds interesting

[cyan cypress]

Going to automate radio control units, how much should I go for a minute to be safe

[spare osprey]

ok i finished my design but it's a little bit iffy when it comes to producing/delivering water to the plants. Is the solution putting water buffers inbetween?

Because i'm currently producing 1:1 ratio of water to coal power plants atm

[cyan cypress]

I’ve found better luck when not funnelling all liquid through one line. So I would split the water lines up to independent lines

[spare osprey]

Already doing that

#design-and-architecture

it's a thing of beauty

it just has a hard time starting up the water production

[cyan cypress]

I just did 800 turbo fuel/minute setup. Running nice now, not as elegant as yours

[spare osprey]

Im not at turbo fuel yet sadly

I just dont understand why water isn't reaching

[viral sparrow]

you are feeding from below

and this is a big bad

[unique cypress]

My bet is on the pipes being below the coal gens. It's generally best to put the main pipe above the the inputs/outputs

[spare osprey]

Actually never mind i found the issue

the pipe below wasn't connected properly somehow

Nah they are randomly turning off for some reason?

the pipes below have full amount of water

but it's not being delivered

[viral sparrow]

read above

pipes are affected by gravity

[cyan cypress]

Are they ever so slightly going upwards

[spare osprey]

yeah but they should be more than fine to handle maximum of 4m, no?

[unique cypress]

It's almost as if 2 different people told you it's a bad idea

And no, I don't know why it doesn't work
But for some godforsaken reason, it often doesn't

[viral sparrow]

thats not the problem, feeding from below is a bad idea with liquids

[spare osprey]

So feeding from below is bugged?

[viral sparrow]

no its not bugged, its intended

[spare osprey]

intended not to be able to feed from above?

[viral sparrow]

because like i mentioned it is affected by gravity

[unique cypress]

Bugged is not the right word here. The pipes apparently work like the devs intended. It's just that what they intended is fucking stupid

[spare osprey]

Pipeline pumps don't work? Or solve the issue

[viral sparrow]

sigh

[cyan cypress]

Yeah I don’t like the fluid physics in this game, one of my only complaints. Even if there is a hidden logic system to the physics, it’s not intuitive

[unique cypress]

Pumps don't provide "pressure", they provide head lift. Which is not the same thing. Head lift is just a ceiling for the fluid

[viral sparrow]

it is affected by gravity, which is the force that pulls objects (including liquids) downwards

meaning the liquid goes down the pipe again

[spare osprey]

Like i can read guys. Im fully aware gravity exists

[unique cypress]

And there really isn't pressure to counteract it

[viral sparrow]

ive said that it is the issue what 5 times now?

[spare osprey]

Im asking if pipeline pumps can solve the headlift issue

[viral sparrow]

my guy headlift is not the issue

[cyan cypress]

Logically if you’re feeding from above, wouldn’t gravity pull it downwards and into the machine ?

[spare osprey]

The worst part is we've acknowledged it 5 times also but you keep going on about it?

[viral sparrow]

can you please read one of the messages i have sent

[unique cypress]

It's not a head lift issue unless the coal gens are more than 10 meters above the extractors

[spare osprey]

I don't want to feed the water from above, i want to feed it from below. Hence i'm asking if there is another way to fix it, for example with pumps

[unique cypress]

Like I said, head lift is only a ceiling. As long as you're not hitting it, it doesn't matter at all

[viral sparrow]

tough luck

[cyan cypress]

Honest question, why does gravity seem to matter at certain times and not others? Is it pressure?

And what determines pressure ? Flow rate ?

[spare osprey]

Because most of my generators have 100% full of water but some are just being emptied

So feeding from below only works on some generators and some others not?

[unique cypress]

There probably is but good luck figuring it out. I haven't bothered because feeding from above is just better.

[spare osprey]

Feeding from above just makes it look so disgustingly ugly

[viral sparrow]

try and make it look nicer then

[cyan cypress]

My guess would be the water pressure.

[viral sparrow]

you can also feed in parallel

[unique cypress]

Valves might help because they'll prevent the water from going back down the pipe. But then it might just stop flow altogether

[cyan cypress]

Try a dedicated water pump for the machine not filling and tell me if it works

[unique cypress]

Or put pumps immediately after the extractors and see if it's not a head lift issue
Fluid can move a few meters above the limit due to sloshing so you can get some flow

[spare osprey]

I configured it exactly like this

[cyan cypress]

Why are all the water pumps connected ?

Use dedicated water pumps for a set of coal plants

[unique cypress]

Because 8 doesn't divide into 3?

[spare osprey]

ok it seems i just needed to wait like 15+ minutes for it to stabilize with the water. Seems to be working fine now

Feeding from below = win

FML

just as i typed it one went off

[cyan cypress]

Sigh….

[unique cypress]

That's the smallest ratioed setup you can get with everything at 100%

[cyan cypress]

Water is free lol, the energy save is not that necessary

[unique cypress]

I always do 16:6 builds and they work fine

You really don't need 2:1 builds

[spare osprey]

One of my generators have 0 water and the one right next to it is maxed out. Meanwhile the water below is completely maxed out on both plants. It clearly is bugged, no?

[unique cypress]

2 extractors at one end, 2 in the middle, 2 at the other end

[unique cypress]

Are you sure you aren't exceeding pipe limits?

[viral sparrow]

can you send a screenshot of your whole pipe network

[crimson moat]

headlift isn't the reason that feeding from below is bad

well, not directly at least

[spare osprey]

100%

[crimson moat]

The machine being fed draws a little bit of liquid, so now the pipe feeding it is only 90% full, i.e. it has no liquid in the part which reaches the machine any more and thus it cant transfer anything for some ticks.

[spare osprey]

It's impossible to take a screenshot, but it's completely identical to this image. I've tripple checked

[crimson moat]

If it were, it would work

[viral sparrow]

can you not just remove the above foundations temporarily

[unique cypress]

I think feeding from below can work correctly, but only if you stay below some limit that's way lower than the pipe's actual limit

Or maybe you can do some pipe voodoo magic and make it work even with a full pipe idk

[viral sparrow]

your water extractors appear to be facing like this which does not work due to pipeline limits

[unique cypress]

I once heard someone fixed their flow issues with a 100m tall tower, but a 20m tall one didn't work. So I don't know anything anymore

[cyan cypress]

Is 5 nuclear pasta/min overkill for main game completion? From what I’ve seen it’s only really used for singularity cells other than the space elevator.

[viral sparrow]

where do the pipes come from

thats the important part rn

[spare osprey]

They come from 1 individual extractor

[crimson moat]

You need thousands of it, so less than 5/min is gonna be slow.

[unique cypress]

Anything above 0 of constant production is overkill if your only goal is to finish the game. Just handfeed a single slooped and overclocked accelerator to make exactly how much you need

[viral sparrow]

overhead view pls

[spare osprey]

So the first 3 water extractors go to the first 8 generators and the right 3 go to the remaining 8 coal gens

[viral sparrow]

theres your problem

[spare osprey]

Which is?

[viral sparrow]

are all of the water extractors clocked to the same?

[spare osprey]

Yes

120/min

[viral sparrow]

right

[unique cypress]

I don't see any issues yet..?

[spare osprey]

The pipes can handle 300

[unique cypress]

Well, other than bottom feeding

[spare osprey]

I can't see any issue either?

[viral sparrow]

one coal gen takes 45/min, 45/min*3 = not 120

[thorn trail]

show the manifold, not the extractors

[spare osprey]

45*8 is 360

[viral sparrow]

if you are feeding 1 extractor to 3 machines, you will not have enough water for one of the machines

[spare osprey]

each gen provides 120. 120*3 is 360

[viral sparrow]

..yes

[spare osprey]

so it's 1:1

[unique cypress]

It's 3:8, not 3:9

[viral sparrow]

what i can tell is he has done 1:3, 1:3 and 1:2

which 1:3 does not work

[spare osprey]

huh?

I just said 3 water extractors for 8 gens

[viral sparrow]

your pipes coming from the extractors, where do they go

into how many coal generators

[unique cypress]

They said they did this

[viral sparrow]

screenshots say otherwise

[spare osprey]

Are you gaslighting me?

[spare osprey]

?

[viral sparrow]

please for the love of god, just tell me how many machines one of the pipes goes into

[unique cypress]

That looks like a single pipe, not 3 separate systems

[viral sparrow]

because from what i can see in your screenshots, you are sending each pipe from each individual extractor to a group of generators

it is very hard to see

[viral sparrow]

i can only see 2 pipes going into this one

its incredibly hard to see the pipes

[spare osprey]

This is a simple drawing of how my pipes are

[viral sparrow]

thats better

i think part of your issue is coming from moving fluids long distances

"long" distances

[spare osprey]

horizontal distance of fluids make no difference.

[unique cypress]

It's not even a few hundred meters???

[spare osprey]

I believe i figured it out

Could it not just simply be the headlift being the issue?

[viral sparrow]

from what i can see no

water extractors provide enough headlift based on screenshots

[unique cypress]

I already told you to check it by putting a pump immediately after an extractor

If it shows anything over 11m, it's a head lift issue

[viral sparrow]

the gens appear to be at most 6m above the extractors

[spare osprey]

Is it possible to determine the amount of headlift?

yeah the gens are 4m headlift

[viral sparrow]

place a mk1 pump to guarantee 20m of headlift

[unique cypress]

Yes, a pump shows it

[viral sparrow]

the diagram you just posted shows it is 12m

[unique cypress]

This is immediately after an extractor?

Also, it shows how much it's actually lifted, not how high it could lift

[spare osprey]

all my generators now have 100% water

[spare osprey]

No i put then here temporary

[viral sparrow]

which gens were going out?

[unique cypress]

Good enough. That little bump in the pipe obviously isn't 5+m high

[spare osprey]

Is it possible to calculate how long these batteries will hold in case i run out of power?

[viral sparrow]

if you go onto your main power grid you can see how much total MWh you have stored

do MWh / MW to find out how many hours it runs for

if you have fluctuating power consumption then have fun

[unique cypress]

Divide the storage capacity in MWh by your consumption in MW and you'll get the time in hours

[old hearth]

well its not too hard just aproximate the average consumption

[viral sparrow]

might be an idea to take the highest amount to be safe

[spare osprey]

I'm unfortunately back at the water issue again..
It was solved for a little bit but completely randomly it stop providing water to the gens

[viral sparrow]

unless you have crazy spikes in power consumption

[old hearth]

yeah but max consumption lies to people

[viral sparrow]

highest amount of consumption not the max consumption

as in the peak of the orange line

[old hearth]

oh i get u

[viral sparrow]

which generators are going out

[spare osprey]

3rd from the left (red)

this is the pipe under it

[viral sparrow]

this one?

[spare osprey]

yes

[viral sparrow]

check for the other ones also going out

[spare osprey]

the other ones?

[viral sparrow]

yes the other gens

[spare osprey]

the ones at the furthest right and furthest left are completely full and then it gradually decreases

[viral sparrow]

out of the others id expect to go out the third from the right is the other main one

[spare osprey]

it might just be the case of having to wait for the water to properly distribute

manifold loading i think it's called?

[viral sparrow]

you could try it, but this could be the thing causing problems (feeding from below pretty much)

from my understanding, when this occurs the pipes on the farthest left/right take some of the 120/min input to refill themselves which leaves less for the third pipe along and so it doesnt stay at a consistent 45/min

[spare osprey]

yeah i have the same thought

the ones at the cornes are completely full. i'll just leave it for like an hour and see if it completely fills up

[viral sparrow]

it unfortunately likely wont, and so youll likely have to feed from parallel/above to prevent the above issue

[unique cypress]

It shouldn't take more than a few minutes

[spare osprey]

Ok it seems to just be an issue with the game

feeding from below is apparantly prove to error because the pipes needs to be 100% full before they can pump upwards

Which... kinda makes sense logically

[viral sparrow]

(hence why i was mentioning gravity earlier)

[unique cypress]

I mean you could try putting extra extractors on the pipes and see if that helps?

If you really want to bottom feed

[spare osprey]

It's just very weird, pumps should be able to solve the headlift issue

[viral sparrow]

i dont think that would do anything tbh due to pipe limits

[spare osprey]

i'll just have to try and find a way to make it not look like ass

[unique cypress]

Other than switching to top feeding, I don't have any other ideas

[spare osprey]

top feeding makes me sick

[viral sparrow]

feed in parallel in that case

[spare osprey]

I'm gonna have to utilize the pathway in the middle in that case

[unique cypress]

How do my pipes make you feel?

[viral sparrow]

oh no

this is both amazing and disgusting at the same time

[spare osprey]

an absolute MONSTROSIY ABOMINATION

Honestly it could be worse, but it kinda makes me a little nauseous

[viral sparrow]

this is whats making me feel sick

[spare osprey]

OMG i didn't even see that

straight to jail

[unique cypress]

It's a 3:3 balancer used as a 3:2

I've got worse 🙃

[viral sparrow]

the conveyors, they are incorrect

this is incorect

[unique cypress]

https://imgur.com/a/j8fEcRv

[viral sparrow]

i do not like you

the conveyors are not supposed to do this

they go over, around or under each other

not through each other

stop it

this is a silly and danger

[unique cypress]

Or through. They don't go red, so it's allowed

[spare osprey]

the ONLY time i can accept them clipping is if your planning to hide them under floor

[viral sparrow]

noooo

@ moderator when are you changing this

[unique cypress]

If they change it, clipping is gonna be even more allowed lol
After all, a few years ago, you couldn't pull conveyors through machines, and how you can 🙂

Soon you'll be able to clip machines into machines without a save editor

[viral sparrow]

please no

i dread to think what the community will do with this

[unique cypress]

They already did this
https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/blueprints/index/details/id/4048/name/24+Fuel+generators+(6000MW)+v1.2

[viral sparrow]

you know what, that looks kinda cool

however putting many constructors or whatever into one will be the death of me

[spare osprey]

ok it now seems to works 100% efficient

Now i just have to design a pathway over them

[viral sparrow]

you can probably use catwalks between the pipes

[spare osprey]

yeah was thinking so aswell ^^

[amber umbra]

Catwalks. Sounds suspiciously like #design-and-architecture (mostly joking tone)

But yea the aesthetics stuff in that chat are cool, but dangerous. I had to fully ban myself from caring about aesthetics as I knew it would bog me down.

Catwalks is the first step towards cool aesthetic factories.

[old hearth]

I'm going to make you sad

https://www.reddit.com/r/satisfactory/s/EuBjvLVrVJ

[fierce ruin]

which do i go with? almost done with phase 1 and the current alts i have are Copper rotor and Cast screws

this is where i am

[cyan cypress]

Theoretically can you just sink uranium waste. Haven’t done nuclear yet so just thinking

[old hearth]

no but you can process it into pllutonium fuel rods which can be sinked

or use the fuel rods and process lutonium wase into a fuel rod with no waste at tier 9

[cyan cypress]

I see. But in tier 8 I can just process and sink them, and then later convert it in tier 9

[old hearth]

if you want

just note the tier 9 thing uses a very large amount of sam ore

and nuclear pasta

[cyan cypress]

I see, and if I use the plutonium, I can’t get rid of the waste by sinking right, unless I go to ficsonium?

[old hearth]

yup

though plutonium only creats 10 wate per rod as opposed to 25

[wind spade]

whichever you like more

[cyan cypress]

Doesn’t need to be the plutonium rods you sink, or can you sink the plutonium pellets

[old hearth]

rods

[cyan cypress]

Tough, that’s a lot of steps just to sink it lol

[old hearth]

in fact out of all products made with nuclear wate, including ficsonium it is the only one you can sink

[old hearth]

thats the cost of nuclear power, which is why some people opt for nitro rocket fuel factories

[cyan cypress]

Maybe I will just upgrade my turbo fuel to rocket fuel lol

[old hearth]

the best way to make it is with the nitro rocket fuel alt

insanely easy to do, extremly efficient

though if you are in the blue crator its not hard to upgrade

[fallow siren]

except the person above already have turbo fuel which is not included in the nitro alt production line

[old hearth]

thats why i said if you are in the blue crator its not hard to upgrade

also i dont know how well the normal ecipe does power wise

i dont use rocket fuel for power

[fallow siren]

nitro alt is braindead, but very costly in term of sulfur and nitrogen

[old hearth]

true

[frosty owl]

*50

[old hearth]

I have dementia

[crimson moat]

Since you get 3x power and 1/5 waste, it's 15x more energy per unit of waste storage

which moves waste from very large/annoying to tolerable

[dreamy umbra]

why would you even store waste,i feel like this is is only viable for a couple hundred hours at most

[crimson moat]

2100 uranium into plut rods is 126 to ~185? plutonium waste per min.

That takes 2000-3000 hours to fill a 10x10x10 block of containers.

Uranium waste though, that will fill it 15x faster at the same power generation and is probably a bad idea.

[dreamy umbra]

1000 containers is tuff,but 3.17 hours per container is better than i thought

yeah i was going off of that

133h for 1000 containers is funny

also,i wouldn't want to use 2100 uranium for energy
more like 1500 for energy and the rest for nukes,that seems balanced

[fierce ruin]

alts i have: Caterium Wire, Cast Screws, Copper Rotors

[wind spade]

As with any other choice: pick what you like the most

[fierce ruin]

should i rescan or get the plate?

im trying to get others thoughts and opinions

[wind spade]

I mean do you want to play the game based on someone else's preferences?

[fierce ruin]

well if there pref is better in some ways.. yes

isnt that why theres videos youtube? and these channels?

[wind spade]

There's no "better" though, the game can be played in any way you want

[wind spade]

Given how misleading and sometimes plain wrong some of those videos are, I wouldn't recommend following them 🤷

[fierce ruin]

well if u were in my shoes with those alts i have, which would u pick

[fierce ruin]

but some are accurate, which is why theres comments and the like/dislike button

[wind spade]

I would pick based on my needs, my future plans, my current plans, etc. Would vary from case to case

[fierce ruin]

plan > get to phase 3 asap

[unique cypress]

I'd want both

[graceful tundra]

is it better to save some steel or to save caterium and copper?

considering copper wise nuclear pasta is gonna use 6K

[gloomy shoal]

I'd burn the steel
Solid Steel goes hard and I don't recall coal being especially mandatory

[graceful tundra]

yeah, makes sense ig

and it's simpler and doesn't require an alternate

damn the flexible frame recipe is awesome

[gloomy shoal]

I will grant that I've been eyeing fused wire for a while now, after discovering that quickwire is 1. The only use caterium has and 2. Stockpiles for years

[graceful tundra]

hmmm

[graceful tundra]

you mean caterium wire?

[graceful tundra]

diamonds?

not at my stage, but eventually

[gloomy shoal]

One of the two
It's Caterium + Copper -> shitlots of wire

Also I'll asterisk I haven't seen or played T9 yet

[graceful tundra]

me neither, and i'm very low in t7 and T8 rn

i can't even start building the elevator parts

i'm just planning the factory

[gloomy shoal]

I kinda want to go into T9 blind (as much as I can)

I just happen to keep dawdling with infrastructure and respeccing my starter builds

[graceful tundra]

yeah, i've been going into phase 4 blind... to see that most elevator parts were being reused

i'm considering just seting up a bin of the old elevator parts in the production line of the new

[gloomy shoal]

I mean, every elevator part is (presumably) reused
It'd be weird if it didn't, nonwithstanding to batteries

[graceful tundra]

hmmm

[brazen kettle]

yo, how do I split a belt equally into five machines?

Do I have to do some sort of load balancer?

[graceful tundra]

you could just run a manifold belt and wait a bit

5 is not gonna be a nice number to split to

[lone jewel]

Splitting 5 ways is essy

[summer flare]

Here is one way.

[brazen kettle]

Yeah, that works normally, the thing is that if the last one stalls for even a second it will die

[gloomy shoal]

1 -> 5 is a lot nicer than it sounds
Just split 6 and refeed the 6th input

Just make sure you've got some leiency on your brlts

[lone jewel]

Simply split 6 ways and bring 1 back to the beginning with a merger

[brazen kettle]

M is for merger?

[graceful tundra]

hmmmm

[graceful tundra]

oooh, didn't think about this

[summer flare]

M for merger, S for splitter.

[gloomy shoal]

Why would you do it that way ever

[summer flare]

Because i can.

[gloomy shoal]

Well, actually
I guess if you need to 5-way split a full 1200 belt

That design does notably avoid pushing a belt over the initial capacity, it's just a (relatively) niche requirement to have

[lone jewel]

Because it doesn't bias a particular side

After seeing that I'm going to start using that in my 5 output belt balancers

[gloomy shoal]

I might be tempted to humour it, but I usually prefer compact balancing if I can get it

I think I made a 8 -> 5:3 splitter at some point for my rotor print

[lone jewel]

tbh it might use more splitters/mergers but i don't really think it's any less compact

in fact it might be more compact as you don't need to have the merger at the begining, creating another layer to it

[gloomy shoal]

I mean, I could fit one or maybe two refeed 1 -> 5 splitters im that one's footprint

It really is as simple as
_ _ M
SSS

I'd do a chart to show belts but mobile & lazy

Just feed one of the side-most splitter outputs back into the merger

[lone jewel]

ahh yeah i guess, i didn't catch that the outputs are spaced apart

so to do it without spacing them you'd need another row

[gloomy shoal]

I will say that integrating verticality in my balancers has notably helped in keeping the footprint to a tight square, although I haven't specifically checked 1 -> 5 on its own yet

Most of the balancers I've done so far were very specific, purpose-built ones

[lone jewel]

for belt balancers you can just stack 1:X balancers, and merge them vertically

it's not as compact as you can make some purpose built ones but it does make it super simple

scalable to any size basically

[gloomy shoal]

Eh, I mostly design for blueprintable builds so "simple" is a much lower priority than cramming things into footprint

[lone jewel]

as do I

and building the actual balancers is super simple because i blueprint various peices of it

blueprint each 1:X balancer

and blueprint a single line of vertical mergers

which then used to build the larger blueprint

[gloomy shoal]

Mmm
Remind me later to post some prints, for a better example of what I aim for
This is markedly Not a great hour for me to get too into this I think

[lone jewel]

here's an example of what i mean about how it's so simple

this is a 20x20 balancer on the output of one of my factories

it ensures that all 20 fright platforms get 1200/min if there is available capacity

[graceful tundra]

dayum

[gloomy shoal]

Ahhh, you build your blocks for a much larger scale than I do

I try to fit multi-step processes (e.g. Ingots straight to RIPs/Rotors) per print rather than making pastable chunks

[graceful tundra]

that doesn't look like something i'd call simple tho

[lone jewel]

not totally clear what you mean by that, but each "module line" here is very much self contained

the balancer's sole purpose is to keep all the freight platforms able to hit 1200/min

[lone jewel]

it is if you understand what's going on with the actual balancer

[graceful tundra]

well, i don't

[lone jewel]

this is a 6x5 balancer

i also hae a 4x5 balancer

[graceful tundra]

oooooooh some of them are on elevators

[lone jewel]

the outputs are connected vertically

[dense solstice]

I think I'm having an aneurism

[lone jewel]

and the inputs are split horizontally

[graceful tundra]

Where?

oooh

[gloomy shoal]

As in, you make prints specifically for balancers, or specifically for one step

I try to make a print that, say

Takes in 67.5 Iron Ingots per minute
Splits those ingots to make screws and rods, at a particular ratio
Combines the screws with the rods to make Rotors
The blueprint outputs rotors to a bin, entirely within its 4x4 foundations space

[graceful tundra]

the inputs are the mergers stacked and the outputs are the elevators below?

[lone jewel]

on this screenshot, the inputs are the splitters on the right

output is at the bottom on the left

[graceful tundra]

isn't that a merger?

[lone jewel]

so the outputs are going down (because my trains are at the bottom of the factory)

ahh fair, yes in this case it's a merger since its a 5 way split

[graceful tundra]

oookay, now i understand it

[graceful tundra]

why isn't it the same on every level?

[lone jewel]

vertical space

each 6x6 blueprint has a 6:5 on the top floor and 4:5 on the bottom

combined to make 10:5

[graceful tundra]

huh?

couldn't you just take the top floor 6 times?

or is it just side swapped for aesthetics?

[lone jewel]

#math-and-meta message i was referring to this but maybe that's not what you were asking

the alternating ?

that keeps the outputs balanced

[graceful tundra]

and, that belt will bottleneck

tbh, you couldn't have 6 1200 belts turn into 5

so makes sense

[lone jewel]

it's limited to 960 on the side that returns to the merger

hence why the side that returns to the merger alternates

otherwise when the inputs were completely being used (18000/min), 1 side of the balancer would get less

[graceful tundra]

why?

what about adding priority mergers?

[gloomy shoal]

I am curious about how one side would "get less" from a balancer, assuming the refeed behaves itself?

[lone jewel]

because the refeed takes away 1/3rd of the throughput

[graceful tundra]

what if you make it a smart splitter

[lone jewel]

it only matters when the input is being limited

[lone jewel]

then you'd end up with more going to that side

same thing if you use a priority merger

[graceful tundra]

well, should not, you can take max 1000 in, have 200 return to the merger, so 200 ending up everywhere

[lone jewel]

yes, but the total output is limited to 1000, not 1200

[graceful tundra]

i'm sure you can make that happen with priority mergers and smart splitters

[gloomy shoal]

...Takes the throughput and re-feeds it back through?

You lose a little belt capacity depending on the scale of the system, but the output should always be even (unless the system clogs)

[graceful tundra]

take in priority the refeed, and the refeed is a smart splitter sending the overflow as refeed

[gloomy shoal]

Unless the belt capacity is in fact the issue

[graceful tundra]

in theory that should work

[lone jewel]

yes, in this factory the outputs will stop much of the time, it's connected to freight platforms

[graceful tundra]

there's 5 outputs

so it works

[gloomy shoal]

Buffer containers & overfill protection, then?
Feels like ought to be standard fare regardless but should still fix balance fuckups

[lone jewel]

the point of the 20:20 balancer is so that I don't have to know exactly how much each frieght platform is using

so long as it doesn't exceed 1200/min per platform, and i'm not hitting more than the total 18000/min output of the factory

[graceful tundra]

Ah, yes, you've got to account for not full belts, i forgot

[lone jewel]

a typical 1:5 balancer biases 1 side

[gloomy shoal]

I mean yeah
I'm saying that, as long as you don't have a clog so bad it reaches the balancer (by way of bins/sink/etc) then you should never see a bias in practice

[graceful tundra]

Yeah, but you could balance full belts tho

[lone jewel]

yes, if this was using an even amount on each output, the bias would not matter

[gloomy shoal]

I'm not sure I understand your goal fully then, so I don't see why you'd be having a balancer issue

[graceful tundra]

I mean, you can have unbiased balancing if it runs at full capacity

[lone jewel]

each frieght platform has it's own buffer between the outputs of the balancer and the fright platform, with 2x1200 belts going to each platform, allowing a constant 1200/min to each platform

keep in mind also that each input is not nessesarily 1200/min

[graceful tundra]

Hold on @lone jewel, couldn't you just have the priority merger in place of the merger, so that the refill is prioritised? This should be balanced

[lone jewel]

that wouldn't change anything though?

it's already prioritized because it's less

[graceful tundra]

I had no idea this was a thing

[lone jewel]

all other things being equal, regular mergers alternate their inputs

so if everything is using the same speed belt, and input with less items will always get in

[gloomy shoal]

The fundamental issue that causes balancer jank is when an output clogs into the balancer

But if I'm understanding right? You're intentionally not checking if an output is clogged?

And thus is why we need to avoid side-bias from splitter cycling?

[lone jewel]

the outputs can be clogged, and is meant to be

each output goes to a signle buffer for a frieht platform

[gloomy shoal]

Okay that would be what I was caught on, makes more sense now

[lone jewel]

so it has to deal with being clogged

but that's why i alternated the refeed line from left to right on each level

so there is no bias in the system as a whole

[gloomy shoal]

Mhm
I'm very stubborn about not clogging balancers normally so I hadn't even considered it

My balancers are less for load distribution and more for getting machine ratios

[lone jewel]

if i was using the balancer in the production i would be the same

in this case though it's being used to balance the entire factory's output to be used in trains

[gloomy shoal]

Yeah
I will ask what you tend to do for unloading trains, since that's usually my biggest bottleneck with train shenanigans I get up to

[lone jewel]

i actually use a "storage container rate limiter"

[gloomy shoal]

Hm?

[lone jewel]

so for example: this is a 600/min limiter

it serves as the buffer to the freight platform, and limits the output speed to 600/min

[tropic hawk]

how exactly does this function? because its a bit hard to see with it compressed like this

[quick gorge]

... huh...
Neat

[lone jewel]

it uses a less known fact about how the inputs/outputs of an industrial storage container are prioritized

[quick gorge]

Imma need me some more gadgets like this

[lone jewel]

ok so the first input that you connect to the industrial storage container is prioritized

so in this limiter, you can connect both the priority merger (on the right) and the top input of the storage container

[quick gorge]

Got any more gadgets and doohickies?

[lone jewel]

the return line on the priority merger is priotitized over the back input

and the splitter on front simply splits it 2 ways to return half the throughput

[gloomy shoal]

Right yeah, industrial bins are Odd Like That

Most of my issue traces to "Belts are too slow" rather than "Belts too fast" but interesting gadget to keep in mind

[lone jewel]

well one thing that it also does is keeps the belts from stuttering

a full mk5 belt using just 600/min will be stuttering, if you rate limit it though, it stays flowing nicely if everything it's connected to is load balanced

[fallow siren]

its easy to get 600, use mk1 and mk2 to split 180 from 780 belt

[gloomy shoal]

Fair and makes sense
Might be good to keep in mind for eventual inter-factory logistics unless I just do a bauxite belt highway, I guess

[fallow siren]

very simple

[lone jewel]

a lot of this stuff i've learned watching Moo's videos: https://www.youtube.com/@moo121/videos

[lone jewel]

yes, though simply splitting a 1200 belt into 2 is easier if you have mk6 belts

[fallow siren]

i also watch moo cuz his balancing videos are fun

altho im not doing one

[lone jewel]

thge mk5 version looks like this:

[gloomy shoal]

I should find more Satisfactory channels that aren't completely obnoxious to listen to

[fallow siren]

moo and whatdarrenplays has very soothing voice to listen to, at least for me

[quick gorge]

looks at Pobkec

[lone jewel]

i started load balancing all my inputs because of moo's videos lol

[gloomy shoal]

Eeeh
Soothing voice does not mean pleasant as a background/resource

TotalEclipse or w/e the name was has a lovely voice, but is just so deeply draining to use as a resource for anything

[tropic hawk]

the only gadget that I have created on my own was a remote throttling system in vanilla that had 1% granularity. it was before priority switches, which ended up making the system much easier to manage

[lone jewel]

it just works so much nicer, everything starts up immediately, and if you ever have a problem in the production line, it doesn't take forever to recover after you fix it, just starts back up immediately

[tropic hawk]

once i get my basic fuel plant up and running this save, im going to start to work on building indestructible factories...

[gloomy shoal]

I still need to decide if packaged fuel is worth having for when I start on oil

It might be funny to just make a comical amount of smokeless powder and sink it instead

[tropic hawk]

define worth having.

[gloomy shoal]

As in "I am not fucking with fuel generators, and I plan to have cartoonish amounts of LBF for my jetpack"

[tropic hawk]

because PF is great for starter jetpack fuel, and the DPF alt is great for power

[gloomy shoal]

I might humour dilute fuel fore the recycling thing with plastic and rubber, but I'm not 100% on it and don't especially need 9 killion rubber and plastic I don't think

[tropic hawk]

you never need ludicrous amounts of resources one one hand. on the other....

[gloomy shoal]

Rubber cement goes weeee
Might even be more portable than 9 killion water bottles

[spring trail]

Is it possible to split 150 items into 10 stacks of 15 with regular splitters?

[tropic hawk]

yes

a better question though is "why?"

[spring trail]

to make wires

[tropic hawk]

let me clarify: are you needing to send a belt of 150 ingots a minute into 10 machines that are making wire?

[gloomy shoal]

You just missed a long ass discussion about splitters but yeah, that's totally doable

You might get better mileage with a different approach imo, but you can

[quick gorge]

Never question why. Might be an artistic choice to not do manifolds.

[tropic hawk]

thats what I was about to get at

[tropic hawk]

I always question what the purpose is, because sometimes people want the most efficient way but don't know it. if they don't want to use manifolds, I respect their wishes. everyone has a valid use case to them

[spring trail]

well it's definitely not that, I'm not familiar with manifolds 😄

[gloomy shoal]

I mean if someone asks about a weird ratio I assume it's a funky alt or some stupid number pairing, like if you use steel rotor to make motors

[tropic hawk]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[tropic hawk]

injection is my favorite style personally

[quick gorge]

Yeah ive currently suffering from "makingthingslookgooditus" so defo not projecting

[spring trail]

oh yeah I've used manifolds without knowing a bit

[tropic hawk]

ouch. that inflicts a lot of pain. hope you recover soon

[tropic hawk]

and a lot of people do. hence why I was probing further into your use case

[gloomy shoal]

I've hit a point where I cannot justify a manifold unless it's a sushi belt
Otherwise I want exact load balancing

[quick gorge]

It might be terminal

[spring trail]

but yeah it is that I have a conveyor of 150 copper currently

I could change it tho if it makes more sense.

[tropic hawk]

because some people like balancing exact numbers to reduce the presence of certain items or reduce start up time (mainly with radioactive materials) but some people just want as compact a system as possible (usually for microfactories) but there is lots of use cases. if you are feeding ingots into wire production, a good rule of thumb to know for belts is that the items going in will always be equal to items going out. so long as the belt has enough items coming into it, it will feed the appropriate amount to the machines

[tropic hawk]

so lets say you have 150 copper ore coming in. you can use a manifold to feed 5 smelters at 100% clock speed, and a manifold to take it out. while the back end of the input manifold takes a bit to start up, once the first machines get saturated, the entire line should function at 100%

[spring trail]

oh I should've said 150 copper ingots 😄

well actually im kinda dumb, I'll just run the conveyors from the machines as they are

[tropic hawk]

in that stage of the game, its not hugely important for doing everything perfectly. just remember to use mk III belts to transport 150 items so belt throughput doesn't limit you

[spring trail]

alright

[tropic hawk]

alternatively you can use the injection method and use multiple lower tier belts

[wind spade]

or just multiple manifolds

[quick gorge]

My current thing is a logistical nightmare and I have no idea how to even ask for help as its all all over the place as I'm hiding my logistics in the air

[spring trail]

I'm making automatic wiring, thats what the wire is for, but my brain is kinda fried from league

so yeah

[tropic hawk]

"Hey, FICSIT Pioneer Service Representative 3611 here. How can I help you?"

[tropic hawk]

LoL will do that to a soul. may you find shelter in this game...

[spring trail]

yeah this is very relaxing compared to that

[quick gorge]

I'm not at my desk right now but I do have something similar (30 times less complex) in nature saved on my phone, will that help give you idea?

when the reply doesn't reply

[tropic hawk]

"I can work with that. go ahead and transfer the files once you are ready."

[tropic hawk]

feel free to ping me if you need my attention

[quick gorge]

I realised I can just #design-and-architecture message

[tropic hawk]

"I don't see the pro- oh god those are belts."

[quick gorge]

Those tube thingies, have 2 belts moving reanimated SAM and the overflow SAM moving to the inner ring, also power cable.
My next thing is going to have belt, power and pipes going through them.

And that is even before I start mentioning throughput. I want the pulsating pipe throughput reader to be part of the decor

[tropic hawk]

"Yeah, this is a bit above my pay grade... thought that I was dealing with the normal case of spaghetti, but instead I got handed a plate of lasagna..."

[quick gorge]

This is.. nuclear pasta

https://tenor.com/view/jacksepticeye-lovrothecoolest-laugh-jacksepticeyelaugh-gif-19786321

[tropic hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-techpriest-binaric-screeching-screeching-gif-20192683

[quick gorge]

Im uncultured is that WH40K?

[tropic hawk]

technically yes. specifically a group that believe that the flesh is weak, so have gotten as many cybernetic implements as possible

[fast zodiac]

oh another league refugee X)

[quick gorge]

I want to put a 40k reference in my Ficsonium reactor ;)

[spring trail]

yeah 😄

[fast zodiac]

chat am I coocked ?

[tropic hawk]

nah, you're fine...

out of curiosity, what are you building?

[fast zodiac]

*** Y E S***

not sure if you can see

[quick gorge]

Using 2000 uranium and turning it into Ficsonium

[fast zodiac]

oh yeah, not indicated here but all the spaceparts outputs will be slooped

[tropic hawk]

my first thought:

[quick gorge]

This is why I'm doing the APAs first before nuclear

[raven path]

Yoo guys i found out a formula that helps pick areas to find where to make your base, it takes a lot of things into account, and there are multiple types

I call it IRNZ which stands for Indice de Ressources Natives Zone (Im french) and it's a score out of 10 on the area where you want to go, just gonna drop it

TP = Total de Production (Production total)
MP = Max Production possible (if every node was pure)
TT = Amount of Target type nodes in the area
FTT = Full Total Target, the amount of nodes you need for your factory
BR = Amount of bonus nodes in the area (Not targetted)
BRT = Total amount of bonus nodes possible (every ore/liquid except target types)

Now the math

IRNZ = 10x(0.4x(TT/FTT) + 0.2x(BR/BRT) + 0.4xTP/MP))

It's a score out of 10 at the end

[quick gorge]

Im french
-# I'm sorry to hear

[raven path]

french hate is undeserved

we lowkey make good bread

[quick gorge]

I just enjoy messing around with people, just giving back what I get <3

[raven path]

sending you wine and bread 🥖 🍷

[quick gorge]

Ah good, not sending the snails and frog's legs 😏

[raven path]

sounds like thailand

[quick gorge]

ANYWAYS
I would love to have this over the top of SCIM
Just place a point and put in a couple things and boom

[fast zodiac]

I'll have a solid 2 TW so I should be good

[raven path]

yess

it's pretty good too

[fast zodiac]

ikr

[raven path]

right now it's pretty manual

i got some papers that split the map in 5 sides

or areas

and i'll calculate the IRNZ of each one and ping you an update @quick gorge

OH WAIT

it's different on each map

[tropic hawk]

someone needs to find if this is viable, and if so it needs to get pinned

[raven path]

I'll calculate my IRNZ

[quick gorge]

👀

[raven path]

it should be

[tropic hawk]

same map, just different starting points on it

[raven path]

i think nodes have different purities

[tropic hawk]

nope, nodes are the same. only thing that varies is crash site loot and ore deposists AFAIK

[raven path]

yoooo sick

[raven path]

welp imma test it rn and calculate desert IRNZ for a steel factory

and ping you because it's probs gonna take a while

i need to sort everything first

[quick gorge]

I always love this realisation

[raven path]

i only have 600 hours man i spend all my time doing dumb shit and not finishing them, quitting the game for a month then coming back lmao

[tropic hawk]

honestly, the main things im curious about is the IRNZ for all 4 sites for the three following metrics:

• Base Factory (iron products up to RIPs, Copper products up to sheets, and concrete)
• Steel Factory (iron products up to HMFs, copper products up to AILs, concrete, and Crystal oscil)
• Oil Factory (all the previous things, while throwing in production for Fuel, Computers, Rubber, and Plastic)

[raven path]

yeah unfortunately it takes a while but i'll set a sheet up

[fast zodiac]

welcome to the gang X)

I've properly finished 2 big builds in my old save and 1 since the full release, and I have no better idea that start the biggest one I've ever thought about lol

[tropic hawk]

ping me when you are done, because once you do, this will provide my favorite kind of evidence: empirical

[tropic hawk]

<laughs in ReTMINWaFN Power Facility>

[fast zodiac]

hey if I finish this one I'll have virtually unlimited power X)

[lone jewel]

imo if something doesn't sound like a great idea, you should always question the why first, as there may be better options that the person asking the question didn't know about, and allows you to give them multiple options

then they can choose the route they want to go

if they want it for asthetic reasons for example, then you can just tell them how to do it and it's really not a big deal

but if someone is just way over-complicating something, you can teach them a better way

[quick gorge]

The issue with my build rn is the https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/558721941410807812 is the https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/932761153703149659 so I'm all over the place

[lone jewel]

not really sure what you're saying there, do you mean that the math/meta will define your design?

[quick gorge]

No, at this point my design is defining my math

[raven path]

do you have some precise locations you want to tell me

[lone jewel]

yes well like i said, if that's the case the question can simply be answered directly, i was just pointing out that it' can be better to first ask what the goal is, if you're simply limited by the design, that's fine too

[gloomy shoal]

My old save's oil production misasventures and the 155.something packaged water belt

[lone jewel]

I'm personally 💩 at design so I always make the design around the math 😂

[tropic hawk]

exact coords? not really, just somewhere in or close to the main 4 areas (you can see them in SCIM)

[raven path]

yeah i split it up in 6 main areas

Middle, North, Desert, South-East, North-East, South-West

and right now for categories i have Basic, Coal, Oil, Steel, Nuclear, Wires, Explosives

what should i add

[tropic hawk]

maybe aluminum?

[raven path]

Good idea

what are the ressources you need for it?

also

wtf does Nitrogen do

[viscid cliff]

Electronics are combinations; which side will you put it with?

[viscid cliff]

Power from nitro and parts

[raven path]

ohhh

[raven path]

no idea honestly give me all ideas

I'd put it in basic tbh

it regroups copper, caterium and all that good stuff

hmm

@quick gorge

do you have any ideas

[quick gorge]

I am trying to do design and math as I was kicked out of https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/932761153703149659 for trying to have my math be designed by the math behind it... so I am not paying any attention

[raven path]

thats crazy

took me 10s to understand

[fast zodiac]

what is the math question ?

[quick gorge]

There isn't one...

[raven path]

i have one

what categories should i add

[fast zodiac]

am gud with jumber and spread sheets or so my autism say

[quick gorge]

This but.. 30 times more complex.
It's about routing/throughput

[raven path]

ayooo

[fast zodiac]

now we're kinking out of the math for making pretty stuff

[quick gorge]

In my infinite wisdom I put pipes on the vents of the manufactory.
Thought it put look cool for the top one to input EPM and the bottom one to output DMR

The problem the manufactory DOESN'T USE THAT

[raven path]

cool but i need a new category

when you play satisfactory what do you make

like all the main things you make into categories

[quick gorge]

This is why my I made this comment

[quick gorge]

Put that on something that looks like this

[fast zodiac]

you mean like the basic iron and coppe ncomponents then steel stuff then oil ect ?

[raven path]

yeah

[fast zodiac]

then to begin with add quartz and bauxite

[quick gorge]

There is no hiding these pipes on a mes floor

[raven path]

Imma name it Quauxite

[fast zodiac]

well the quattz line si from silica to oscilaotrs and the bauxite for the alcalaid and the sheets

nah 2 separate ones

[raven path]

hell no

Quartz is already in 2-3 categories

[fast zodiac]

wdym ?

[raven path]

trust the process

[fast zodiac]

also there is no real like between quartz and bauxite

[raven path]

yes true

but what is Bauxite for

[fast zodiac]

all the things i make here

[raven path]

And what is Quartz for

[raven path]

so Advanced Electronics

[fast zodiac]

oscilators, radio systems, maybe computers

[raven path]

also Advanced Electronicss

we solved it

[fast zodiac]

and bauxite for the fused modular frame, cooling systems

technically you could make one for the endgame components too, those that require all ressources

and one for nuclear power

cause I love the spicy rock

[raven path]

ye i have that

[raven path]

good idea

what do we call the category

[quick gorge]

They taste like orange, odd consider they are visibly green :3

[raven path]

do you have ideas

[fast zodiac]

my univentive ass would day endgame

[raven path]

i'd say Space Elevator

[fast zodiac]

or, given the vibe, quantum

[raven path]

or Late Components

[raven path]

yess

[quick gorge]

No sorry. I just need to get this design complete

[fast zodiac]

Q U A N T U M

[raven path]

Okay now, what ressources go in Basic?

[fast zodiac]

or as your french ass would say, quantique

[quick gorge]

Not like you're also French

[fast zodiac]

du faire a ne plus savoir quoi en fer all iron components to modular framn and commer wire, cable, copper sheets I'd say

[raven path]

you are an insult to french

[fast zodiac]

sheisse

[raven path]

okay so iron, copper and limestone?

im mostly talking ressource types

[fast zodiac]

yeah

[raven path]

Now for Coal

[quick gorge]

I might have a field test for you actually

[fast zodiac]

definitely add sulfur with coal

[raven path]

Just coal, and water, because Steel is a category

[raven path]

yess

[quick gorge]

I want to make Alien Power Matrces/m here

[fast zodiac]

aussi pk tu dit ça ?

[raven path]

okay i diud Basic, Coal, Oil, Steel, now i need Nuclear, Wires, Explosives, Aluminum, Advanced Electronics and Quantum

[raven path]

psk c'est vrai gros chat mouillé

[fast zodiac]

TwT

[raven path]

t'as confondu fer et faire

[fast zodiac]

why wire

[fast zodiac]

c'etais la blague

metajoke

[raven path]

its good for early game or big productions

[raven path]

-2 j'ai pas kiff

Je mets quoi dans Nuclear

[fast zodiac]

yeah but it either fit into the basic componenet

or advanced electronics

[fast zodiac]

U R A N I U M

[raven path]

no its a cetgory because i said so

[raven path]

Caterium too?

[wind spade]

english only server guys 😉

[raven path]

french invasion trust

[wind spade]

#rules read 😛

[quick gorge]

I was doing a thing

[fast zodiac]

if we only speak about the uranium fuel rods you mainly ned caterium copper iron quarts sulfir uranium and water with a bit of oil nitrogen and limestone

[fast zodiac]

yeah read the rules no LGBTQIA+ phobia, and french phobia fit in there

[raven path]

hes right

[fast zodiac]

I swear my genius, sometime, it generate gravity

[raven path]

you need to make a new rule

"no french phobia"

[raven path]

use your genius to tell me what to put in Aluminum category

[fast zodiac]

you're banned for the LGBTQIA+ phobia too tho

[quick gorge]

r/AnAttemptWasMade

[raven path]

mb for knowing french and having eyes you just insulted an entire country

[raven path]

noooooo

[fast zodiac]

bauxite

water

[quick gorge]

I was just trying to do as Greeny did but in a meme <3

[raven path]

well i dont approve it 😈

i might be the reason french are considered grumpy lmaoo

[fast zodiac]

maybe a bit of quartz

[quick gorge]

dommage

Anyways

[raven path]

I put Bauxite, Water, Quartz, Iron

[fast zodiac]

add crude oil and copper too

[raven path]

Okay now what do i put in "Quantum"

[fast zodiac]

everything (except uranium)

[raven path]

gah DAYUM 😭

[quick gorge]

Why just have a "everything" option?

[muted tide]

How can I make a proper calculation for a plastic or rubber factory using the recycled plastic and recycled rubber alts

[quick gorge]

With two sub options, max points and max power

[fast zodiac]

the space parts alone require this

[fast zodiac]

what you're using for the math ?

[muted tide]

Nothing yet thats what im asking for

[fast zodiac]

I personally love this site https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

you need to properly setup the recipes and alternate you'd be using first but once you do it's really fast and hady, also you can just have a bunch of tab and duplicate them to make a ollow up of your factory

this tab have the recipes I use for my world (I found those the most efficient for min-maxing) https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=ECY8EV7RirT0QdVA1AXx

[muted tide]

Am I insane for upcycling 2850 oil per minute into rubber and plastic using diluted fuel?

[fast zodiac]

not insane, but that should supply all your would

[quick gorge]

I'm planning with 2700 with no problem

[muted tide]

Noice

Should I try to end with a 50/50 or should I have more plastic or rubber

(Im not really into the rubber alt recipes)

[quick gorge]

Well we don't know what other alts you want to use that will effect your rubber/plastic usage

coulda let me finish kek, then just turn it all into plastic

[fast zodiac]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=7D6M4T9FkoucBTYWEazf this what I would end up making in my world you can check at how much if each item I make in the item tab belowy the production list

here I have 10k plastic and 12k rubber

[lone jewel]

with those machine numbers i suspect you will run into issues with the liquids

[quick gorge]

That's the overview numbers, the way it will actually be laid out will look something like this

... times that by 6

[dreamy umbra]

you are missing out on poly resin

[lone jewel]

yes, i get that

[dreamy umbra]

grave mistake imo

[lone jewel]

but i still suspect you will have issues

[quick gorge]

Yes, anyway

[dreamy umbra]

that's like rubber/min

[lone jewel]

personally i would be clocking down the blender and initial refineries so that you have 8 all the way through

[quick gorge]

... it's an example...

[lone jewel]

water extractor is fine because it's exactly half

[quick gorge]

I have set this up in testing and I got no issues.

[bitter grail]

Why would you need to have 8 of each machine exactly?

[quick gorge]

I'm not actually laying my pipes out with this tool. well... for my current thing I need to because I hate myself

[dreamy umbra]

thats 900 rubber per min bro

what the hell

[lone jewel]

because splitting/combining pipes in that way where it leads to 600/min in 1 pipe often works out poorly

[dreamy umbra]

poly resin rubber

[lone jewel]

1:1 or 1:2 piping is a lot more reliable

[dreamy umbra]

thats 10% of all output

[quick gorge]

I'm not even working with that rn

[old hearth]

is this too much those two towers make 1800 plastic and 1800 rubber respectively

the really big one makes 22.1666 pasta

[dreamy umbra]

just right for midgame

[lone jewel]

the more machines you connect to one pipeline, the more likely you are to have flow issues

[quick gorge]

The only thing I can smile about with my BS is that I'm using a "gas" through all the pipes

[proud shoal]

Im currently planning on building a massive steel factory producing Steel Beams, Steel Pipe and Encased Industrial Beam but I am unsure on how much I should produce? I currently planned 480 Steel Beams p/M, 480 Steel Pipes p/M and 120 Encased Beams p/M, do you think that is too much or a good value? Im using alternates like Molded Beam, Molded Steel Pipe, Wet Concrete, Solid Steel Ingot and Encased Industrial Pipe

My problem is that I cannot guess how much coal etc. I need for the end game, I do not want to use too much coal for it I guess?

[unique cypress]

Wtf is up with people in this community just making up units? What unit is "p"? What is "M"? Why can't y'all just f-ing use the units the game uses and make shit up instead?

[proud shoal]

per minute

[unique cypress]

As for your actual question, it's impossible to answer. The amount required entirely depends on what you plan to use it for

[unique cypress]

That's /min try again

[wind spade]

I think you should make like 1/10th of that. Those values seem way too high

[wind spade]

you won't run out of resources realistically

[raven path]

im almost done

https://tenor.com/view/zombie-grave-onepice-backtograve-dead-gif-5266368

[silent patrol]

is this really the best way to do this

turbofuel makes less power

[old hearth]

Yes

[silent patrol]

thats alot of gens

[old hearth]

Yup

You in the spire coast?

[quick gorge]

?

[silent patrol]

yeah all of them except the three near the valley

[old hearth]

Yup exactly what I did

It'll make 60gw

[silent patrol]

says 95gw for me

[old hearth]

Dang

[silent patrol]

its diluted fuel

[old hearth]

I know

i think it nets 60gw

[raven path]

for the IRNZ i had to do very light approximations for nodes because it would've taken a week without them

but so far results look solid, and i have a clear IRNZ for each area and category of ressource and can tell you which area is better depending on the type of industry you need

[fast zodiac]

I'm back a bit late but coal isn't too much of an issue lategame, but if you wanna save in it a bit more you can use the iron steel pipe alternate

[fast zodiac]

I planned my full factory for the end game if you want to take a look at the proportionnal ressource usage https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=7D6M4T9FkoucBTYWEazf

[crimson moat]

You need the same amount of gens per power, no matter the fuel type

[silent patrol]

? gens per power

[crimson moat]

100 GW of fuel or turbofuel or rocket fuel all use 400 generators.

[silent patrol]

guess that makes sense

which ones better rocket fuel or ionized fuel

[opaque quartz]

Depends. How do you define “better?”

And for what purpose?

[unique cypress]

for power, ionized is objectively worse than rocket fuel

[opaque quartz]

Ionized fuel is fantastic for jetpack and vehicle fuel (especially drones), but not a great choice for power due to the large input power requirements resulting in a minimal return on investment

[unique cypress]

if you include the opportunity cost of not burning the rocket fuel it takes as an ingredient, the return on investment is negative

unless you have a few augmenters, that is. then it can become positive

but considering the insane resource cost, I don't think it's ever worth it as a power source

maybe if you have a 4x augment

[crimson moat]

Ioinized works decently with augmentors and when you need the DMR that creating power shards generates

if you're not using augs/APA's and dont care about the DMR then it's not good to burn for power

[oblique hollow]

Dark Ion was either not designed at all or designed to be worse on purpose

[unique cypress]

considering the rest of the tier 9 power generation, I don't think anything was properly considered

[oblique hollow]

If i had to describe Tier 9 in one word it would be "expensive"

[unique cypress]

for everything except power, it doesn't really matter. you can't get 1200/min on a single belt by using anything other than a mk6 belt. you can't make phase 5 without encoders. you can't finish phase 5 without making phase 5 parts. whatever the price is, you don't have any other choice.

but when it comes to power, you have plenty of choices. every power source just make "MW". A MW made with a nuke plant isn't any different than a MW made by a coal plant.

and I'm of the opinion that if an alternative way of achieving the same thing is unlocked later, it should at least be better in more situations than it is worse, if not objectively better in all cases. Neither Ficsonium nor Ionized Fuel nor Matrices meet this criterion at all imo.

[crimson moat]

yeah ficsonium needs something like consuming 2x the plut waste

[unique cypress]

it needs to consume a 10th of the ficsite and half the plut waste

[crimson moat]

What i said: 12.5% of map SAM on ficsonium DMR (one single production step for one thing)

What it is now: 25%
What you said: 50%

and yes that's accounting for half of the DMR being looped back from ficsonium rod encoders

[unique cypress]

Most of the SAM goes into the Ficsite. with a 10th going to the ficsite and double to DMR, it would go from 41.(6) RSAM per ficsonium to 32.(6)

but yeah, you'd now need double the Ficsonium to get rid of all the waste

[crimson moat]

But you'd need twice as much ficsonium, as you said consuming half of the waste

yeah

[unique cypress]

so you'd need to cut the DMCs too

or rather, singularity cells

[crimson moat]

singularity cells are fine i think