math-and-meta

[plucky tusk]

Lol

And even after you double and triple check stuff u find something wrong. Drives me crazy

[upbeat summit]

accidently thought that the pure iron ingor req 65 iron ore per min instead of 35 (65 was the output value of iron ingots) INSULT ME

spent around an hour getting iron for these refineries, even went and overclocked shit, all while thinking that i need 260 iron ore per 4 refineries

[restive sparrow]

At least it won't be hard to fix. Clock down your iron miners and you're good to go! Don't beat yourself up. Mistakes happen.

[fierce ruin]

Oh no

I built an entire factory. It produces so many things

But I forgot to make iron plates and steel pipes.

It doesn't produce the three things on top. And it's going to take ages to fix the factory so that it can

Guess it's time to get to work, though

[prisma kraken]

has anyone else tried slooping the default ion fuel recipe? it seems like whenever i try (regardless of what i have the clock rate set to), the refinery goes idle on its output buffer not having enough space

[vapid gorge]

is it also over clocked?

[prisma kraken]

even at default clock rate it goes into idle with sloops; i think it is because the cycle output when slooped ends up being 32m^3 of gas

[vapid gorge]

internal buffer should be able to handle it.

unless it's not being consumed fast enough

[prisma kraken]

i'm just trying to figure out what's going on with it and it really does seem like it is the sloops. setting the clock to 200% still allows the machine to function at 100%. odd.

[unique cypress]

After being fully slooped, it'll produce 32 ion fuel per cycle. The output slot can only fit 50. The machine won't start until the entirety of its output can fit in the output slot. Therefore, when slooped, it'll wait until it has at most 28. Which is more than 32. So it'll pause every cycle until at least 4 is removed

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'm pretty sure that's what's happening

kind of really annoying, lol

[vapid gorge]

but you can OC it to 200% to make it produce 32 as well

and it's apparently not doing that

[unique cypress]

That's not how OC works lmao

It'll still produce 16 but twice as often

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah duh. Morning brain

[unique cypress]

It's definitely what's happening. In my mod, I added a recipe that makes an entire stack per cycle and is therefore unsloopable. It just stalls forever after sloops are inserted. And it stalls every cycle, of course, but it does produce items

Though that can be bypassed with a stack size increase mod lol

[prisma kraken]

well, it is fluid so there isn't a stack size 😦

[restive sparrow]

Kinda weird scenario. Are there any other parts that fill more than half of the output buffer if slooped? It feels like a mistake. I'd think output buffers would be at least 4x the production amount so a fully slooped system could run unimpeded.

[prisma kraken]

i'm sure there's probably some other recipes as well

[restive sparrow]

I don't do a lot of slooping so I wouldn't know

[unique cypress]

There is. 50. This is how many the slots always hold. And it matches the cargo wagons. The item ones hold 32 stacks, the liquid one fits 1600, 32 "stacks" of 50

[prisma kraken]

i have a feeling that this is sort of a whacky edge case of fluids and the fact ion fuel is 1.0 newness

[unique cypress]

Biomass from protein would behave similarly

It makes half a stack normally

so a full stack slooped

[prisma kraken]

biomass from protein has another problem as well

[vapid gorge]

I think they do actually

[restive sparrow]

I hadn't noticed. Is the output buffer always 1 stack?

[prisma kraken]

the internal buffer isn't big enough for the cycle yield

[prisma kraken]

ion fuel recipe. output is gas

the default cycle yield for it is 16; when slooped the yield goes to 32 which is over half of 50

[restive sparrow]

I'm referring to the game in general with that question, and as other have pointed out fluids kinda have a stack size.

[unique cypress]

Those are the only possible stack sizes in-game

[prisma kraken]

yah, i'm pretty sure that that all is what's happening, i didn't mean to split hairs, but stack sizes don't exist for fluids and the buffer is always 50 m3

i'm kinda surprised though... the devs didn't think to test slooping the best non-nuke fuel in the game?

[unique cypress]

"best" lmao

[restive sparrow]

Best might be a stretch

Most complex id buy.

[prisma kraken]

not going to get baited into that argument 😉

[restive sparrow]

Lol

[prisma kraken]

i was just playing around with making some for the jetpack and drones, but i may try doing an rf->ion conversion at some point

in any event, if it were sloopable, the calculus on how good ion is changes quite a bit

[unique cypress]

It is sloopable. Doing that just slows it down. But you still get double the output for the same input

[prisma kraken]

kinda sorta... you'd have to fuss with it to see how many extra refineries you'd need to sustain the rate you want with an oversubscribed rf input. doing so would probably require 2x the number of sloops

[unique cypress]

If it was an item, it would be easy. You need to remove 4 before it can start again. So the time per cycle is the normal cycle time plus the time to remove 4 items. With belts, that's constant. With pipes, eh...

I mean the cycle time is still extended by the time it takes to remove 4 m3, but I doubt that's constant

[prisma kraken]

yeah, in my brief playing with it, even putting a buffer on the other side of an mk2 pipe wasn't enough. i can't think of anything else you could try

[past cedar]

what is the best recipes to make a computer factory

for computer and circuit board

[vapid gorge]

depends where you're placing it

and how much youre making and how you like to move things

[past cedar]

im just tryina make like 10 probably

[unique cypress]

For items that require multiple resources, there rarely is a "best"

[vapid gorge]

sure. but where abouts?

[unique cypress]

I always just use the caterium alts tho

[past cedar]

i could make it anywhere rlly ill just train over the plastic and/or rubber needed

[vapid gorge]

then there's no real best chain of recipes if you're willing to move anything

part of choosing 'best' recipes is tailoring the choices to location and what else you're doing

[past cedar]

so for example i dont got caterium wire and ai limiters truly automated yet

i could combine that into my computer factory

and do the caterium alts maybe?

[unique cypress]

Just pull up Satisfactory Tools and play around with different recipes until you find ones that work best for you

[vapid gorge]

sure.

well that sounds like a good option.

Caterium CB and Caterium Comps means you only need oil and caterium to make them

not many places have those in the same location but it does reduce the types of raw material you need 🙂

I'll often use silica CB and Cat Comps because I'll make a lot of computers and this way it extends both resources

jsut an example on needs and planning that affects 'best'

[past cedar]

how many computers will i need later on

would u recommend more computers/min

[vapid gorge]

many? very few?
best advice - don't future proof

[unique cypress]

Impossible to answer

[vapid gorge]

is this the sort of game where you that once you finish phase 5 you'll be done with thegame?

or will you treat it like a sand box making your own plans?

[past cedar]

ahh ok

this helped me relize there isnt best alts just different ones based on needs, thanks guys

[vapid gorge]

but also don't over think things. You can treat tiers 1-9 like a long tutorial that gets you up to speed and get teh skills for yoru own projects 🙂

[past cedar]

i played alot when at like update 4 and 5 but i overcomplicated things alot lmao

[vapid gorge]

assume whatever you build now won't be exactly what you need/want later no matter what you plan

[vapid gorge]

that happens 🙂

[past cedar]

i finally noticed that if i make smaller factorys for separate things its alot easier for me lol

[vapid gorge]

yeah that's part of the planning process 🙂
I keep tabs on things in a spread sheet

[past cedar]

rather than 1 steel factory trying to feed every other factory that needs steel and keep my building stock up

[past cedar]

ive been using that planner website alot its helpful

[vapid gorge]

personal notes are good too 🙂

but yeah there's 2 main ways to build.

low level factories like you were talking about , 1 main steel factory for all

pros - don't need much factory planning
cons - needs lots of logistics planning

and then the reverse

local factories that produce high tier parts on site.

Pros - minimal logistics planning
con - more factory / location planning

and you can take a middle road too. Depends on what you like

[fierce ruin]

I've always wanted to do that. Just make one giga-factory for every single item

One factory produces like, 5000 iron ingots a minute and those are just sent around the map to every other factory that needs iron

[vapid gorge]

it's a massive distribution issue. But if you enjoy that sort of logistics go wild

I do ultra local factories

[prisma kraken]

imho, it is a real trap to try and do bulk processing like that. especially with ingot making, ingots don't transport very well. try to boil raw resources down into things that aren't 100-stack items

[fierce ruin]

But what if it's a like

Really really big train

It'd basically be a manifold for your entire factory. Like, your rotor factory won't get screws at all until your entire reinforced iron plate factory has maxxed out screws

Or wait, I guess you'd not be able to sink anything, would you? Because your entire logistics chain would rely on factories getting clogged

[crimson moat]

Nah, you would plan for them being @ 100% but just send more materials than it takes to do that

the problem then is that your belts/trains will have throughput problems unless scaled way up

(any latency problem is solved via buffering, but throughput is not so easy)

There is one project that i have been thinking about for a while

The biggest reason by far for not building e.g. all of the rotors that you'll need in one place is that you don't know how many that you're going to need in the future.

If you already know what you want to build before you build anything, especially if you have all of the tech, you can work backwards e.g. I want to build 10 per minute of X which requires 20 per minute of Y which requires 40 per minute of Z. Add everything up, and you have the total amount of parts that you need to make out of ore and for every step above that.

Logistics for anything like that - actually moving large quantities of many different parts to where they need to go - is a challenge, but not unsolveable

[fierce ruin]

Well that's why you build way too many rotors

[crimson moat]

You can't really build forwards with that kind of design unless you build WAY TOO MANY of everything, which is a huge efficiency problem

[fierce ruin]

Like when they built the sewage system for London. They knew they needed like, two foot wide pipes now, so they decided to use three foot wide pipes for the future

So build a like, 800/m rotor factory and you're probably good

[crimson moat]

It's hard to say in advance though.. do you need 20 rotors? 200? 2000? You'd have to overbuild by ridiculous margins unless you already know, especially if you didn't play through the game once or twice already

whereas working backwards, you can say that you need 270 rotors per min and build exactly that

you can also say exactly how many of which resources it would take, before laying a single foundation

and one of the harder parts, you can figure out how much space you're going to need to take parts from A to D, G and F (and how the layout should be to minimise those difficulties)

[fierce ruin]

Maybe you could make the factory modular, so if you ever need to increase rotor production by like, 30/m you can just plop down a blueprint

[crimson moat]

you can do that pretty well even by just leaving 1 axis unbounded and expanding that way

but i would prefer to have all of the numbers in advance for such a huge project 😄

[fallow siren]

I've been doing centralization for a while, its a fun challenge and i learn a lot of how to handle the logistic

you can separate each floor to its own production, for example smelter floor, assembler floor, etc

[edgy leaf]

does anyone know why they are separated like that?

[wind spade]

names changed

[edgy leaf]

oooh I'm blind

I just looked at the numbers

you could say playing satisfactory screwed with my perception

[vapid gorge]

can't really fault you for missing it, was a lonely singular change

[harsh mason]

Well it's 4:30 am and I'm thinking about trains

[harsh mason]

Mostly how I'm not using them correctly

[unique cypress]

The only incorrect way of using trains is putting more than one train on a bi-direcrional rail

[harsh mason]

I've also discovered it's possible to deadlock trains if a station area gets too busy, which is fun

[unique cypress]

Can't say I've ever managed to do that while using duplex

[outer vale]

depends how you set up your signals

and lay out the track

[unique cypress]

Just use path signals for crossings and it'll be fine

[harsh mason]

if you don't have enough track leading to the station that a queue backs up onto the main line it can prevent the train at the station from leaving sometimes

[unique cypress]

If you have duplex rails split with blocks every ~100 metres and paths at intersections, no

Or I guess unless you have so many trains that there is an unbroken loop of them along the entire track and nothing can move

[edgy leaf]

just modeled my factory in satisfactory modeler and it says i should get 20 gw. problem is, i have 15? turns out one of the four lines of generators wasnt connected to the grid...

ive been playing for many many hours thinking thats just how much power i have because i never bothered to check.

yay free 10gw of power

[restive sparrow]

Was about to make a reference that basically never happens anymore cause nobody uses real cash... #oldguystuff
"Like when you find an old $5 bill in a pocket. You've always had it, but now you have it again. Free money!"

[opaque quartz]

Like that card in Monopoly. “Bank error in your favor”

[edgy leaf]

in germany its not that uncommon yet, many places are still cash only

[edgy leaf]

do ficsmas gifts technically beat ballistic warp drives for max theoretical points?

[digital spade]

If I have 250 rocket fuel/min, how many fully overclocked fuel generators can I supply?

[wind spade]

the fuel gen tells you how much it needs

[digital spade]

Rocket fuel calculations are kinda inconvenient, since it has a repeating decimal

[wind spade]

that's mid/late game for you 🤷

[outer vale]

do the math with it as a fraction then (25/6)

[unique cypress]

And?

[digital spade]

Wdym and?

[crimson moat]

It doesn't actually, it's 1 per 14.4 seconds.

divide by OC factor

that's how many per gen

divide rocket fuel/min produced by that, and you've got a number of generators

[digital spade]

Thanks👍

[cerulean stratus]

Oh hey@edgy leaf
What do you think of belt logic?

[edgy leaf]

wdym? belts as logic gates?

[unique cypress]

A number is a number. You can divide by it. If you don't know how to convert it to a fraction, just put in 10 decimal places in a calculator and round the result.

Or use the energy value from the codex or the burn time that also shows up in the generator

[plucky tusk]

The 4.167 is just 25/6

Or 4 1/6

[outer vale]

^

[plucky tusk]

Sorry i dont deepscroll chat lol

Afaik game goes to the 4th decimal point to you got like 10,000 numbers between each whole number

[edgy leaf]

9999 between whole numbers

[cerulean stratus]

yup

i've managed to make a 0-9 display with it

[lethal prism]

How? Sounds interesting

[edgy leaf]

are belts turing complete?

[cerulean stratus]

you can make not gates, and gates and or gates, is that enough?

[lethal prism]

Eh, is that not just filtering stuff to certain belts with splitters? I wouldn’t count that as logic gates

[edgy leaf]

how do u make a not gate?

[cerulean stratus]

with 1.1's priority merger

you need a second element. If you have a 1 coming in, that second element isn't put in the belt
If you have a 0, it is.
Then you use a smart splitter

On one belt you'll get the original out, on the other you'll get the inverse

[cerulean stratus]

how would that filtering work?

[lethal prism]

Hook up the belts displaying the number 3 to splitters that put that item in?

[lethal prism]

Would there be any practical application to this? I’m having a hard time coming up with one :p

Still cool as a PoC ofcourse, but cooler if it has a practical application

[cerulean stratus]

Is there a practical application to most math you've learned in class?

Well, some people play this game to build good looking factories, others efficient factories

I realized I can build logic systems so I'm gonna try doing that

[edgy leaf]

yea im still confused

imagine satisfactory programmed in satisfactory 🤯

[plucky tusk]

Logic is uncommon these days lol

[crimson moat]

Have used pretty much all of it in Satisfactory lol

addition, subtraction, multiplication, division (incl remainders and modulus), algebra, pythagoras theorum, trig, calculus. You can get by without a lot of math but there is no shortage of ways to apply most levels of math to make your life easier

[cerulean stratus]

this one was before priority mergers

[lethal prism]

Uh, yeah, yeah there is :p

Again, it’s cool as a PoC, I’m not denying or contradicting that, I was just curious as to if there was a practical use for it in addition to it simply being interesting

No need to get hostile about it :)

[cerulean stratus]

alright. Well, we haven't really found a use for it yet

just trying to see how far we can develop this

[frosty owl]

Google can offer several answers for that ^^

[cerulean stratus]

In satisfactory?

Oh btw @frosty owl
I have with me a save file of a guy who made the whole game using 1 sushi belt

By the whole game, he actually started on steel

[frosty owl]

Yes, of course!
While new additions to the game added wider ranges of possibilities, logic gates up to and including "xor" were possible as far as Packagers were introduced (maybe earlier too) and many quite different versions have been created.
If you wish to find some comparisons for the version you made, there's probably quite a few "models" you can find ^^ (they greatly differ in size, complexity and response time iirc)

[lucid stirrup]

i need help, how can i manage to split it 105/135?

[vapid gorge]

1 splitter

it self balances

like any manifold

[lucid stirrup]

oh okay

[frosty owl]

Uhm, just for clarity, I'm not trying to be like "people found out before you", just letting you know that you can look into that if you're curious about how many ways that can be achieved 😅

[vapid gorge]

the other main way would be to make 2 groups of smelters.

1 group that makes 135, the other 105

[frosty owl]

You have my interest 👀 (thank you for throwing me an @ me about it)
Do they also have a YT channel by chance?
If they do, I'd prefer touring that rather than the savefile itself atm ^^ (I haven't played/updated the game in a while)

[unique cypress]

Depends what belts they have available. With only mk2, it's not 1 splitter

[frosty owl]

"How to split..."
"Just merge "

[cerulean stratus]

https://youtu.be/LribXYERj8U

[wind spade]

Logic gates needed smart splitter and sink (or other way to make NOR gate)

[wind spade]

Why not? Part of machines goes left, part right, rest go to 1 splitrer

[cerulean stratus]

And the new priority mergers really help

[frosty owl]

I don't recall wether it was possible to make them without smart splitters or not, but a sink is not quite necessary as one can use machines or even just storage container to keep things running

[frosty owl]

Oh yeah, I did see that one 😆
Thanks anyway, I like not to miss on the little sushi content we have

[river night]

sorry, i need to empty my computers bucket so it can run again

[frosty owl]

Depending on throughput, that may not be a concern (like with Plutonium Waste pre-1.0)

[opaque quartz]

Use a smart splitter in front of your storage container to send overflow to an awesome sink. This will keep your production lines running continuously

[frosty owl]

[prisma kraken]

has the value-add of getting you some coupon points!

[unique cypress]

more than some, even

[thorn bane]

you sink overflow
i build my factory to sink
we are not the same

[wind spade]

sink that factory!

[unique cypress]

I mean most of those points are from my 10/10/2.5/2.5 P4 factory. After it was completed, it was only used for points

[plucky tusk]

dude i got so much unused power rn i probably wont need it for so long

[prisma kraken]

ahh, we've all said that. a week goes by and we start eyeing the power graph after every build again 😄

[plucky tusk]

i got like 50gw jus chillin

and nuclear is my next big project

[opaque quartz]

I already had like 150 GW of headroom and then added another 100 GW via a boosted APA just for the hell of it

[plucky tusk]

i just got into p4 too

[thorn bane]

tier 9 inhales power so dont worry 🙃

[thorn bane]

@vapid gorge

[vapid gorge]

oh I was totally misreading the recipe. I was thinking petroleum as the oil recipe. yup

ok I have no idea why you would every use petroleum coke for diamonds

I guess if you have HOR byproduct??

[lethal prism]

yeah, resin

[unique cypress]

Except if you use DF and the recycling recipes, HOR isn't a byproduct

[oblique hollow]

Well you can use default rubber and plastic and still make DF if you feel extra funny

[vapid gorge]

At that point though you'd expect to have the other recipes at hand.
I might like biocoal better

[lethal prism]

what is you guy's go to for supercomputers? thinking of making a large factory that produces RCUs, Cooling systems, and supercomputers (using the OC supercomputer alt) all in one place this time around

[unique cypress]

Either default or the one with batteries (super state?)

[lethal prism]

yeah super state

[unique cypress]

OC takes a lot of bauxite iirc so I don't like it

[lethal prism]

fair

thinking if I should sacrifice the efficiency for the convenience of just making it from RCU and cooling system because I'll be making those in that factory anyway

[thorn bane]

super state all the way
oc is bait

it uses A LOT more resources

[unique cypress]

I mean I was making all the ingredients for super state too

[vapid gorge]

yeah I think I ran the numbers on it once and it basically took all the resources the base recipe uses plus a ton more bauxite components

[lethal prism]

I generally make a factory to produce an item for DD/central storage, then leave that factory alone for the rest of the playthrough and make the next factory from scratch. I don't produce any "leftover" control rods or batteries, and don't plan to (as I don't need them for personal use)

Since I'll be automating RCUs and cooling system soon anyway it would be more convenient to just make that factory/factories bigger and produce super computers from that, but looking at the numbers now I'll just stick to super state

[unique cypress]

SS

Def

OC

[thorn bane]

bro use paint and combine them

[unique cypress]

All per 100 SCs, all alts enabled, SAM disabled

[unique cypress]

I'm on phone

[unique cypress]

That's exactly what I'm doing

[lethal prism]

yeah, was also looking at numbers myself, I think SS is the way to go, modeling it now :p

[thorn bane]

OC bauxite use is INSANE

[unique cypress]

I wasn't expecting it to be more than triple

I thought it was 1.5x, maybe

[vapid gorge]

are all the other recipes in the chain Base? Default seems really high on caterium

[unique cypress]

^

[thorn bane]

ai limiters and HSCs use a lot of caterium

oh is this using caterium computer?

ah yes caterium computer and caterium circuit board

so no quartz

[unique cypress]

Yes, it's the lowest WP

[vapid gorge]

I definitely want to do a bit super computer factory with Silicon CB and Crystal comp. With the purified crystal recipes 😄

[unique cypress]

The bauxite cost is a bit inflated here because "lowest WP" involves default alumina and using the byproduct silica for silicon CBs

[wind spade]

yeah this is a big problem when comparing recipes, you have tons of options for intermediates

[thorn bane]

still think that chain is underrated
i used it last playthrough and its insane
50/min silica from 1 machine is so much

im suprised quartz purification and silicon CB + crystal computer isnt better WR than caterium CB + computer

[vapid gorge]

WR?

[thorn bane]

weighted resources

[vapid gorge]

SFtools' weighing? I tend to completely ignore that.

[thorn bane]

ye im just suprised its still picking caterium circuit boards and caterium computer

[oblique hollow]

why wouldnt it

Nitrogen is quite rare

And so is quartz

12k Nitrogen and 13.5k Quartz
vs 15k Caterium

I guess the Oscillators are so damn expensive

Even though Caterium ore to ingots usually results in less output, quick wire and the quickwire alts can massively boost the yield there

While quartz and nitrogen both are always used in high amounts and make less product

(Except for silica)

[vapid gorge]

ok I think I've landed on my silly quartz purification SC recipe chain https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=zZosyB2bbFOZ20js0RwL

the only thing I don't like is the extra 433.333 dissolved silica

But I suppose I could alter it somewhat to do some pure crystal

[lethal prism]

Thinking I'll go for this production chain, thoughts?

I know it's not optimized for efficiency, there is some ease of use in there as well :p

[vapid gorge]

doesn't have any recipes names shrug

[lethal prism]

no but looking what goes in and what goes out makes it quite self explanatory no?

[vapid gorge]

not really, hard to look at comparison possibilities.

you know what you've made because you built it with modeler. It's absolutely terrible to sharing or comparing with anyone else

[lethal prism]

I'll add some recipe names

[vapid gorge]

cram it into tools, much faster

[lethal prism]

no, I prefer making my own

tools feels like it's playing the game for me. Nothing wrong with if that's what you enjoy, but I don't like it

besides, tools optimizes for efficiency, this way I can much more easily make some changes that I prefer for ease of use, even if they are slightly less efficient

[wind spade]

tools uses recipes you select. You can simply select different recipes

[lethal prism]

here it is with titles

[lethal prism]

yeah, but I find this easier/more fun and when using tools it just feels like I have less of an understanding of my production line, at least in the "early" stages, before I start actually constucting the line

it's just a personal preference, use tools if you want, but I prefer modeler

[wind spade]

yeah that's fair 🙂 I was just pointing out that you can change recipes in tools

[thorn bane]

id use copper and iron alloy
and def. stator with fused wire
i also prefer def. electromagnetic control rod with plastic ai limiter over HSCs

i wonder how good coke steel would be in this over iron pipes

[unique cypress]

You can convert the resin to more rubber

I'd either do fused or iron wire
Default stator
Default control rod
Maybe Default HSC, but you're already using silica for CBs, which I wouldn't do either

[thorn bane]

@fallow siren 120 quartz for 26 bauxite is not worth

this is just straight up better

[unique cypress]

Why tf would you do that? It's still 1:1 baux:ing, like sloppy, electrode, pure

You're just adding quartz for no reason

And 144 coal instead of 24 oil

[vapid gorge]

coal is a less valuable resource than oil often times

[thorn bane]

im comparing aluminum solution and alu ingot not electrode scrap
ofcourse electrode makes it just better

[unique cypress]

6 times more?

[thorn bane]

my point is that sloppy alumina + pure alu ingot is just better than default solution + ingot

[vapid gorge]

maybe 🙂 I've often done huge builds that have left almost all the coal on the map unused but oil used up as it's so flexible

[unique cypress]

Also, using up all bauxite only costs 10% of the map's oil. There's plenty left

[unique cypress]

Doing it with default alumina would cost 17% of coal (7380) and 27% of quartz (3690)

Compared to 10% oil? I don't think that's ever worth it

[thorn bane]

well some people to like their local resources for some reason 🤷

[fallow siren]

like kyo said, 12.3k bauxite only use around 1.3k oil

for electrode alt

just bringing bauxite with train is far easier than both with coal

[cerulean stratus]

It depends
If the location has oil close, it's good
If the location has coal close, it's also good

[fallow siren]

one area wont have enough coal for all bauxite in the map

you will eventually bringing them in from outside

[unique cypress]

The blue crater has barely enough coal I think. And there's barely enough quartz neaby-ish

But it also has more than enough oil

[plucky tusk]

Havent even hit t8

[prisma kraken]

there's enough coal, oil and sulfur in blue crater to process all of the titan forest bauxite w/ whichever recipe chain you choose. if you plan on adding in silica for ingots. there's quartz in east dune forest in ample quantity

in my last playthroughi did a lot of building in that area and the only resource that was really in short demand was copper, but i was able to convert some sulfur to make up the shortfall

[brazen kettle]

Should I avoid making 600/m pipes?

[thorn bane]

mk2 pipes in long manifolds dont do 600/min, more like ~550
thats cause junctions splitting unevenly like 600->570/30 creates backflow that reduces the overall throughput (#math-and-meta message)
splitting evenly like 300/300 is fine
you can fix this by splitting your pipe into 2x 300/min pipes at the manifold, for example by building a loop that feeds 300/min from the start and 300/min from the end or by connecting it in the middle so it splits 2 ways

[brazen kettle]

Thanks bro

[vapid gorge]

and by 'splitting' they just mean looping your manifold

it's still a 600pm pipe manifold

[wind spade]

No

[unique cypress]

You probably should avoid 600/min pipes with 30+ junctions

[merry kernel]

For a sufficiently long run of junctions, loops stop working. I have a hypothesis I need to test about an all-purpose solution for manifolding pipes

[unique cypress]

Also, I never loop my manifolds

Or pre-fill them

[thorn bane]

looping manifolds is stupid imo
just connect in the middle
its way easier 🤷

[unique cypress]

I usually connect to one end. Even the 600/min ones

[merry kernel]

#screenshots message Seems to be working?

There's some slight weirdness in that the final refinery gets water before the second and third to the last. This is in 1.1 if that makes a difference.

The hypothesis is that if the water has to go over a rise that is taller than the pipes, pressurized water coming in will be preferentially used instead of gravity-fed water from adjacent pipes.

That's 12 refineries consuming 50 water each. I'll need to test a longer run later

[thorn bane]

feeding from above helps but doesnt eliminate it
feeding from below is really bad
equal hight is "fine"
from above is better but still has issues
this is the refinery blueprint i use:

[merry kernel]

This is neither feeding from above or from below - the feed pipe is exactly on the level with the refinery inputs

The refineries are feeding from above, the feed pipe is feeding from below, I guess.

[thorn bane]

well it goes up and then down
the important part is that is buffers some fluid before the machine

[merry kernel]

That's half of the important part - the other important part, assuming my hypothesis is correct, is that the "push" from the feed line arrives before the "pull" from gravity

The water tries to reach an equilibrium level, which, with a perfectly horizontal arrangement, means you get backflow - a refinery earlier in the chain pulls a chunk of water out, and this lowers the level at the feed pipe, which means the adjacent pipes try to balance it out from both directions.

[thorn bane]

yes, same reason to feed from above
thing is while this helps it doesnt eliminate the issue
it just makes it 580 instead of 550
but its still not 600

[merry kernel]

The feed pipe, however, never gets drained in this design - it's always full

Feeding from above lowers the feed pipe level

[thorn bane]

i mean its easy to test
build some fuel gens (or reuse yours) and send 600 fuel in
just did that and got 33750MW
where it should be 36000MW
difference is 94% or 560m³/min throughput

the thing is that the feeding pipe says 600/min but its not actual 600/min left to right because part of it is coming back from sloshing so you might miss it
in the same way that buffers can have 1200/min flow

(also i used this abomination that feeds from above so it might actually be worse for a normal layout https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/558721941410807812/1367225920246648964)

[merry kernel]

It took a moment for the final refinery to fill, but once it did, the output is perfectly stable. (If it wasn't, the third-to-the-last refinery would begin to accumulate excess water whenever the second-to-the-last refinery shut down.)

[thorn bane]

how long is the manifold?

[merry kernel]

Twelve machines eating 50 water each. Need to test with a larger line next. I suspect it will stop working for a sufficiently long manifold, mind, as at some point I think the gravity-fed water may arrive "sooner" than the pressurized water coming in

[thorn bane]

ye 12 is a little small
its most noticeable in turbofuel plants which consume 7.5 so 600/7.5 = 80 plants

so ye for that small feeding from above or what youre doing fixes it but probably not for longer manifolds

[merry kernel]

Personally it has been most noticeable in an old save I have with severely underclocked refineries with hundreds of refineries in a row, lol

But that, uh, led to severe performance issues, so I don't use that save anymore

[thorn bane]

@wind spade you happy now with my name?

[wind spade]

nice

now I can get back to my normal name 😛

[merry kernel]

Increased machine count to 30 and dropped consumption to 20 per. Waiting for the manifold to fill up

[merry kernel]

Works with 30 machines

[thorn bane]

try with fuel gens
easier to check power as well

[merry kernel]

I do ionized fuel, that would take a long time, lol

Also I don't know if it would work with gases

(I'd have to run sulfur lines, as with sloops, ionized fuel generates more compacted coal than it consumes)

The line appears to be delivering very very slightly more than 600 m^3, though. Or the refineries are consuming very very slightly less than they say

Hrm. Nope, there appears to be a very slight periodic backflow, possibly. The third to the last machine is slowly filling up, and the second to the last periodically shuts down. Or it could be the third to the last is getting a very slight preference over the second to the last.

[thorn bane]

look at the efficiency numbers on the machine

[merry kernel]

I'll need to reset it, I started tinkering

[plucky tusk]

Is this the recorded instance of people thinking about pipes for hours?

[merry kernel]

Oh. I'm working too hard. If there's backflow water will start accumulating in the water extractors. Emptied those and observing

Okay, no backflow. But there's some wonkiness with the last three refineries. Of those three, the last refinery gets the highest priority, then the third to the last, then the second to the last.

So the second to the last starves occasionally until the other two are full

[lean bobcat]

Hey, looking for someone to elaborate on trains as its my first time touching them in 700hours, can a single train station have multiple freight platforms that all function at the same time? so basically what im wanting to do is have a train with 4 freight cars and im wondering if the game allows me to load and unload all 4 or if i should just do 2 trains with 2 carts (also does it matter which side of the station those freight platforms are on? its a push-pull system)

[merry kernel]

You can have multiple freight stations, as many as you can fit (I have a loop with 22, which didn't even end up being enough), but each will only load OR unload, not both.

Don't rely on a given freight station moving more than 1600 items per minute, though. You can, if you get the timing right, get a little north of 1800, but around 1650 is the more realistic figure.

[lean bobcat]

Aight thanks for explaining, also good to know that 1600 is about the limit, that limits per singular freight station right? so the whole train station can still move whole lot more

[unique cypress]

If you use "depart when empty/full", you can consistently get the max theoretical throughput out of your platforms

Do keep in mind that it depends on the stack size and belt speed

[merry kernel]

Yep! Cannot comment on depart when empty/full as that isn't how I use trains, lol. Also there are a few items with stack sizes of 50 with even lower throughput rates, but I've never run into those issues as I tend to carry mixed cargo.

Tractors or trucks may situationally be a more efficient option, depending on how much cargo you're delivering and how far you're delivering it. Or, if you're intent on maximal efficiency and also not using belts, factory carts, which don't consume fuel (but can only carry one stack each).

However, tractors/trucks seem to clump up on save/load; I would guess factory carts exhibit the same behavior.

[prisma kraken]

there's an issue with that where the level trigger on the full or empty jumps the gun as soon as a inventory slot has one item

[merry kernel]

So their performance degrades considerably for long distance transportation

[prisma kraken]

also, the 'depart when full/empty' doesn't do the right thing if there is more than one car on the train. the setting should really be per car instead of per train

(i'm not saying that it is broken, just it doesn't all work as you'd expect and until you test it all, you won't know if it does what you want it to)

[lean bobcat]

Yeah mostly going with trains just because i havent tried em before, so far my preferred method has been spending hours on way too long conveyer lines but this time around im going from grass fields to top of northern forest so i really wasnt feeling conveyer belts this time lmao

[unique cypress]

Yeah, unfortunately it sometimes leaves with only 1-3 items in the last slot. But if you use this setting on the unload side as well, the load side is ususally able to fill up and it'll transport the full 32 stacks

[merry kernel]

Trains are great but incredibly space-intensive. Or space-extensive? The platforms get huge.

[unique cypress]

If you balance them, there are no issues

[merry kernel]

KYO loves balancers, as it transpires.

[prisma kraken]

good point. still, the settings require some hoop-jumping

that part of the train configuration has always felt a bit unfinished to me. hopefully it'll get some TLC in the future

[merry kernel]

I just want the station to continue operating while loading/unloading, sigh.

[prisma kraken]

out of the advanced schedule settings, one that i do use a lot is to filter the loading of trains exporting stuff from a factory so i can get away with less export stations

...that all works pretty well

[unique cypress]

Meanwhile, I always have one station per item type

But I'm almost always moving 1000s of items per min

[merry kernel]

Oh, on that note, if you do mix cargo, I will warn that un-mixing the cargo becomes a small nightmare. Or, if you mix a -lot- of cargo, a large nightmare.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i used to do that for its regularity. I've since started exporting loads in 4 car trains regardless of the volume (for balancing reasons), so i often have tons of spare capacity

[prisma kraken]

sushi output belts from train and truck stations take some considerable thought to mitigate the latency

[merry kernel]

#screenshots message <- My train station, plus the two sides of sorters (using different approaches to sorting items, still not sure which I prefer)

So, yeah. Mixing items saves a bunch of freight stations but requires a lot of extra work if you want to sort it back out later.

(Granted I built that in 1.0; I could really improve it with the new* vertical splitters and priority mergers.)

[prisma kraken]

what i was saying i do is set up the filters to load only specific items into each train so that the collation gets done as the trains are loaded

something that i've only recently started doing, but i find it a good option so far

[merry kernel]

That whole train line is delivering to this one station, lol. It's one of several low-level material processing centers, so everything coming in is going there.

[open schooner]

hi why i cannot place oil pump there?

[prisma kraken]

that's an oil well. you need the phase 4 well pressurizer to tap it

[unique cypress]

An interesting choice of channel to post this in

[open schooner]

ahh ty

[open schooner]

theres no other channel for this

[unique cypress]

questions and help?

general satisfactory?

[open schooner]

general you cannot place screenshots and in questions and help it takes to long for an answer.

but what problem you have here mate? I ask for help 1 people helped me in one minute and you only barking here

[lethal prism]

it takes like 5 minutes tops for an answer there, especially for a simple question like this 🤷‍♂️

[lethal prism]

chill the fuck out mate hahaha

[open schooner]

And you are?

[prisma kraken]

dude leave it be, simple question, simple answer. done.

[open schooner]

ignoring people here too xD

[lethal prism]

Lars

I mean it does say that on every message I send

[wind spade]

#1038092680493801533
literally you have a question and need help

[lethal prism]

oh I thought that channel was for posting screenshots

[glad wadi]

anyone got a design for cast screw reinforced plate factory

[lethal prism]

here you go, 10,000 reinforced plates per minute

[wind spade]

no, that's #screenshots 🙂

[lethal prism]

oh I thought that was for baking recipes

[crimson moat]

Stage 1: 60 iron ore into 60 iron ingot (2 smelters)

Split one smelter in half for 15, merge the other half with the second smelter for 45

Stage 2A: 15 ingots to 2 constructors (cast screws); merge output

Stage 2B: 45 ingots to 2 constructors (iron plates); merge output

Stage 3: Assembler taking both, outputs 5 RIP/min

Inside mk.1 belt capacity, independent, and doesn't waste assembler capacity

tile as desired for 10, 15, 20 RIP/min

[unique cypress]

Yes, it's in the trash can over there together with all the other recipe chains that involve screws

[wind spade]

no, that's #off-topic-media

[wind spade]

screws are fine 😛

[lethal prism]

isn't that to discuss the math and meta of satisfactory?

just realized I'm being a massive prick today, think it's about time I log off

[plucky tusk]

prolly just need to eat, i get grumpy when im hungry lol

hangry

[lucid stirrup]

https://tenor.com/view/cringe-meme-cringe-shrek-gif-6551256872915503916

[sullen phoenix]

According to my calculations, this gave me a lot satisfaction.

[frosty owl]

So what's the math then?

[sullen phoenix]

Yes

[radiant plank]

Damn you manage to have 60FPS, crazy

My poor 3070 laptop doesn't keep up (maybe it's because i'm end game and there is a lot of buidlings)

[sullen phoenix]

My rig uses a 3070 also.

[edgy leaf]

CPU is more important than GPU late game like that

[radiant plank]

Oh okay

I9 11900H

I should put the turbo mode to overclock it

[frosty owl]

Make sure your Turbofuel production can keep up

[lethal prism]

It's not bad, but you might want to consider upgrading to a better one soon, as that is over 4 years old now and the more recent CPUs have 2.5-3x better performance (depending on how you measure cpu performance, ofc)

oh wait, not over 4 years yet, but will soon be

[radiant plank]

Damn, already ?

[lethal prism]

Q3 of 2021

[radiant plank]

My laptop is only 2 and a half years old

I think i'll buy a computer next year

[lethal prism]

yeah I don't mean the age of your specific cpu, but the cpu model is from Q3 2021

[radiant plank]

I'm still a student, and a laptop carries it

[radiant plank]

I saw a way better CPU on my young brother's laptop

Evolution can't be stopped 🤷‍♂️

[lethal prism]

fair fair, I use a laptop too (also student), though it's only a couple months old now so it has fairly recent hardware

[radiant plank]

Logic

[lethal prism]

yeah it goes quick in the hardware world, one minute you have a high end pc, the next it belongs on a trash heap :p

[radiant plank]

Well i mean my fps on Satisfactory aren't that bad

I may be like between 40-55 fps

It will have to keep up until i move in a new appartment 🫡

It will be fine on Turbo mode

[hasty raft]

hello

[vapid gorge]

yo

so this link has some basic rules that are good for all situation #math-and-meta message

as mentioned in it it's not the only way to build pipes, but it's a good standard for any situation and if your main goal is to just get them to work and not do anything fancy? solid rules to go by

let me know if you have any questions about the link and I can go into it more

[lethal prism]

You call what I say nonsense and then your explanation says the same thing? I say "you should loop or split a 600 pipe" and you call it nonsense and say "you should loop a 600 pipe"

I am very confused XD

[hasty raft]

im gonna hop on my creative world just a sec

[vapid gorge]

I also don't look at every blocked msg so if that's directed at me I'm sorry

[hasty raft]

is there a time set day command

[vapid gorge]

I'm not super aware of console commands sorry, afaik most of them don't work w/o mods?

!wikisearch console

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=console

[vapid gorge]

might be something in the console page in the wiki?

[hasty raft]

say i have something like this right

do i do the looping thing in the image per output manifold?

[lethal prism]

no command that I know of, but there is a mod for it (allows you to set time, lock time, set weather and fog)

[fallow siren]

i don't really play with console commands, but if youre playing in 1.0, theres a mod that let you lock the day cycle

[vapid gorge]

is this group of 12 using 200 fluid pm?

[hasty raft]

group of 10

[lethal prism]

"SkyUI" by d4rk

[hasty raft]

ahh only mods

[vapid gorge]

so 2 of those aren't part of the group?

[hasty raft]

not to scale with my actual build

its supposed to look like that just imagine it hehe

[vapid gorge]

ahh ok and you want to do this with a 600 pipe?

instead of hte 3x200s?

[hasty raft]

i want to do the 3x200s

[lethal prism]

since you're building 3 lines do the 3x200s. no need to loop

[hasty raft]

do i have to do this per 200 pm pipe?

[hasty raft]

ohh

[lethal prism]

just split the pipe before feeding it into the 3 manifolds

[vapid gorge]

do you have to? no. but your flow will probably be easier to manage

[lethal prism]

how you did it here it's correct, no need for the loop though

[vapid gorge]

ok in this instance I would just do this. You may not even need the loops

200 is a low throughput and short manifold, those 2 things will make it more stable and easier to manage

[lethal prism]

just make sure you manually turn of gens to let them fill up before turning them on (and start consuming)

with pipes you generally want the entire system to be saturated for more stable flow

[vapid gorge]

like in the link of 'rules', I'd just flood it, and let run run 🙂

[hasty raft]

okay ill just delete the power lines

thanks guys

[lethal prism]

no they won't fill then iirc

bit of a pain in the ass but it is worth it

[hasty raft]

they fill without connections, and they dont if theyre paused

[vapid gorge]

well generators are the only machines that will will on standby.

[fallow siren]

no, it still fills

it just wont start cuz no connection

but they still accept inputs

[unique cypress]

Or just don't bother? I never pre-fill my pipes

[vapid gorge]

it's very useful to stabalise flow if something is awkward and very good for trouble shooting in case something is off.

more important for manifolds running at 600 ofc, or any other system that is less simple. But it's a good habit in general

[unique cypress]

I guess it might be helpful for troubleshooting? The buffers in machines and pipes are fairly small so if you messed something up, they'll drain pretty quickly

Filling from empty with everything running takes a while

But other than that, I haven't noticed any major differences myself when I did or didn't do it

[vapid gorge]

yeah but if you start off with a system that's chock full, you won't have empty spaces in the pipe that might cause back flow, and you'll know very quickly if there is a flow issue with it

[unique cypress]

If a setup worked with pre-filling, it worked without, and it didn't without, it also didn't work with

[vapid gorge]

it's just a good habit. And like, maybe you keep really short manifolds that are just realy easy to maintain? like these 200 pipes will probably run perfectly w/o doing it. But this is more to get core skills to manage any pipe situation. I don't know if they'll want to try 600 pipes, or bottom feeding.

I've had any number of systems that definitely needed pre filling xD

[unique cypress]

When 1.1 drops, I'm just gonna install the mod that makes all fluids gasses. I'm tired of dealing with the "realistic" liquids that are fucking superfluids

[vapid gorge]

like these definitely needed prefilling

[vapid gorge]

the only thing that solves is headlift. You can get back flow in gasses too

and headlift is trivial

[unique cypress]

I guess I should probably test it properly to make sure, but I've never noticed sloshing in gasses

[vapid gorge]

like go ahead and get the mod, but it's not a silver bullet for piping

or maybe get a mod that makes every item a liquid xD

[unique cypress]

Backflow itself is not strictly an issue. It's the infinitely repeating sloshing that kills flow

[vapid gorge]

I know it existed pre 1.0

[wind spade]

get a mod that makes all fluids solids 😛

[vapid gorge]

that's back flow 🙂

and pre filling does solve many sloshing issues. don't give it space to slosh

prefilling also isn't a silver bullet though

[unique cypress]

The issue with that logic is that once machines start drawing fluid, there is space

[vapid gorge]

there is. And that's why you sometimes need to loop manifolds

but for pipes running maybe 300 out of a possible 600 they can usually overcome those gaps

w/o extra effort

[fallow siren]

shouldve let us downgrade to U2 so no more headache about fluids

[unique cypress]

There is one?

[vapid gorge]

probably

[unique cypress]

Huh, weird. I tested it, and gassed slosh too.

[vapid gorge]

they do apparently slosh in a slightly different way, but they do slosh

[unique cypress]

There's gotta be something different about them, because I always built gas pipes assuming they don't slosh and they always just worked fine

[vapid gorge]

afaik liquid will flow to the most empty section, while gasses will try to equalise with neighboring sections

[unique cypress]

If I did the same thing I did with gasses with a liquid, it definitely wouldn't've worked

[hexed quartz]

I have been pretty frustrated by “realistic” fluids just because they’re so inconsistent. I’ve had theee levels of the exact same build all behave differently, even when I prefilled them. Building everything so input pipes are elevated over the input ports has helped. But really I just wish it was a simpler (and more performant) system or, at the very least, pumps should actually create pressure (not just headlift) the way actual pumps do.

[vapid gorge]

show over head images of your layout

though I'll have to reply to them in the morning as it's quite late. Be thorough with yoru angles

[hexed quartz]

Are you asking so you can fix the build? I fixed it with new designs. My point is that it’s super confusing when you build the exact same thing and get different results based on random fluid timings, especially for new players.

[unique cypress]

Yeah, it's really fucked. I had setups that I couldn't get to work but got fixed after rebuilding stuff the exact same way, setups that magically fixed themselves after 40 hours, setups that suddenly broke after 40 hours, setups that worked perfectly even when I ignored all the advice I saw on the internet and setups that didn't work even when I did

[hexed quartz]

Wube did a write-up on the problems that led them to drastically simplify the fluid system in Factorio 2.0 and I think Satisfactory fluids have many of the same problems but worse. It's just so unclear what's happening while the rules are unintuitive and feel inconsistent. I get the desire to provide a fluid simulation challenge, but I think the end result is just pseudo-depth (either you know what to do or you don't) and extra frustration. Factorio 2.0's system may actually be TOO simple to be interesting but it really does "just work" and I commend them for realizing that just getting out of the player's way is better than an opaque, frustrating system.

[unique cypress]

Frankly speaking, up to 3/4 capacity, pipes do work just fine. But if a pipe says it has 600/min capacity, then it should f-ing work the same whether it's carrying 60 or 600/min. It's a game, for gods sake. Foundations can float, belts don't need power, tiny copper wires can transfer TWs of electricity; why would pipes need to be realistic?

[plucky tusk]

Daily pipe appreciation

It would be cool if machines had a constant fluid usage and not just one cycle at a time

Then you can have more consistent pressure

[oblique hollow]

just use a valve then

valves emulate constant consumption

if it doesnt work with valves, then it wouldnt work with machines doing the same.
No "buts" around that

[merry kernel]

My slooped ionized gas refineries would love this

Since they go "Produce, pause, produce, pause" as the slooped ionized gas output is more than half the stack size

[oblique hollow]

your slooped refineries would do fuckall better with a change like that

it wouldnt change anything

the way recipes work is always in batches.
they could change how machines accept or output fluid, but the limitation of stacks and how recipes work would always be there

this is not the pipe system at fault

its the recipe itself that is flawed

[merry kernel]

"Constant consumption/production" would correct the issue.

But yeah, I understand how recipes work, and that's not actually a viable fix for performance reasons

[oblique hollow]

you can have machine accept and output fluid at constant rates while also having them work in batches

[merry kernel]

A man can dream, though, can't he?

[oblique hollow]

factorio machines work the exact same way

it takes some stuff, waits a few seconds and abracadabra, product is made and ingredient is consumed

you know what could fix the issue? a bigger fluid stack size for the refinery.
but it wouldnt make sense to change it for all recipes just cause ionized fuel is a flawed recipe

[plucky tusk]

Idk never done ionized fuel

[oblique hollow]

good.

[merry kernel]

It's pretty much only useful if you sloop it, otherwise don't bother

(Excepting for specific purposes like jetpack)

If you sloop it and the rocket fuel, though, you can generate more compacted coal than the turbofuel consumes

So situationally useful, like if you don't want to run a sulfur line

But you'll eventually have better uses for those somersloops, so, like cast screws, it's situation where it is a great recipe for a limited period of time.

[lean bobcat]

Doesnt exactly seem like the right channel for my question but this is the closest thing i could find without making a whole thread for it (which seems tad overkill?), how do i make my railways between blueprints connect? i am on experimental as its a new-ish feature if i remember right

[oblique hollow]

you place blueprints with the build mode set to "autoconnect"

if a blueprint comes close enough to another one that has open connection points, it should try to connect to it

[lean bobcat]

yeah the rails will be directly touching each other already, just freshly discovered that, that alone isnt enough for them to connect 😛

[opaque quartz]

be aware the auto connect feature in 1.1 has a decent amount of jank still. It does work but it’s not flawless at this point

[lean bobcat]

Not sure if you have whole lot of experience with using autoconnect but do you know if its currently broken on experimental? like 3 out of 4 times when i press left click it just cancels the blueprint while 1/4 times it works correctly without me changing anything

[lean bobcat]

Yea was about to say it definately still seems experimental lmao

[opaque quartz]

Truth in advertising

[lean bobcat]

Well atleast the auto connect does seem to work when it actually places it down, these are gonna be some mighty painful next 2-3hours of me placing these from grass fields to north spire coast

[unique cypress]

Auto-connect only works when the "link" icons show up. You can AC rails that are touching I think, but you need to initiate the connection with them a bit apart

[lean bobcat]

yep, it was showing the link and was blue, after which i left clicked and the blueprint just disappeared, ive played around with it for a bit and im pretty 100% its a bug, the blueprints all just want several attempts for some reason, though now that ive discovered blueprint - autoconnect mode instead of default autoconnect mode it has become quite a bit easier for me

[vapid gorge]

@unique cypress

well there are more and less stable ways to build pipes and this makes huge differences especially if you're running close to the limits or doing things besides the simplest layouts.

there are ways ot build pipes where, at worst, you just need to tweak things a bit, and generally will just work first time

[true tundra]

Hey, quick question, how should i connect up my resource nodes for late game? its my first playthrough, pretty much just got coal power set up and i want to like plan a base for everything iron, but how should i connect my resource nodes up? its giving me a major headache to the point everytime i load up and try to do the math for somereason my 2iq brain cant put the pieces together - Miners mk2 on 3 normal iron nodes is making 360pm but mk2 coveryors can only pull so can i even connect all the nodes and distribute them efficiently? sorry if this doesnt make sense.

[unique cypress]

Yeah, but my point is this #math-and-meta message
If you do something that most people without specific pipe knowledge would say should work, then it should work

[vapid gorge]

some things require specific knowledge and this is fine
and as an example, if you're feeding 600 in one pipe to like 3 machines and just split it from 1 junction? that's probably all you need. Nothing else special

you can run with very very basic knowledge and rarely have any issues. The main problem is they treat pipes like belts

[unique cypress]

Like today I built a setup that I've never built, but according to everything I knew up to this point, should've worked. But it didn't. Like Zyranex always says, I got ~550 instead of 600. Putting valves on every single fucking pipe brought it up to ~590. But still not 600. Flushing it made it work. Until I flushed it again, and now it didn't

This shit just doesn't make sense

[vapid gorge]

yeah valves fuck things up and Zyr often has bad advice

people slap valves and buffers on things and expect it to be magic when in most situations it'll make things worse

essentially valves and buffers really need the person using them to know exactly what they are doing or you're just throwing fuel on the fire. And I haven't come across a situation where there wasn't a simpler and more reliable option to avoid them.

[unique cypress]

The setup I built was simple. A double sided manifold with 15 HOR refineries, and then a single sided manifold with 20 DPF refineries. 600 HOR/min in and out.
Didn't work. At the start only did like 400-500/min. Flushed it, did 550-560. Added valves set to exactly what the flow through the pipe should be on every single pipe, got 590. Flushed it, got 600. Flushed it again, got 590 again.

Both manifolds lifted a few meters above the inputs/outputs.

Until I started adding the valves, this was how I've built pipes for years. Never had issues with 600/min pipes, but I've also never did it with 40+ junctions on them. 10, maybe 20 max. And it always worked. No loops, no pre-filling, no valves, no buffers. The only thing that makes my setups not "as simple as physically possible" is the lifted manifolds. That's it.

Also, the issue seems to be on the production side. Adding the matched valves to the consumption side didn't do shit

[vapid gorge]

" single sided manifold with 30 DPF " yeah, you hit the limits of what even a looped manifold can do.

[prisma kraken]

my general theory on pipes is that you want to keep them small

[vapid gorge]

so a while back I discovered length limits to manifold loops and that breaks right past that

it doesn't get talked about much because you generally don't see set ups as long as that

my theory on that is that there's too many injection points creating instability and the loop can't overcome it

[prisma kraken]

most consumers on my pipes end up clocked near to max

[vapid gorge]

that's one way to help with that

[unique cypress]

That was supposed to be 20 DPF, sorry.

And no, that doesn't hit the limits, because I've had 20 HOR refineries on a single manifold fed from 1 end with 600 oil. Worked fine

The only difference is what's on the production side

[vapid gorge]

yeah 20 should be within the limits, I've seen 25 have issues though.

Without seeing the system and how you laid it out and pre filled it I can't really go further though. Most pipe analysis is very visual

but in this example having 10 on each side would be more stable

[unique cypress]

Well yeah, but this was a test setup.

Like I said, I've had the exact same consumption side, just with 20 HOR refineries. Exact same pipe layout.

[vapid gorge]

oh sure but that's the sort of thing when you approach edge cases

[unique cypress]

The only difference is the production side 1-4 oil extractors vs 15 HOR refineries

[vapid gorge]

but often times the 'exact' layout isn't quite exact. Small differences can crop up

[vapid gorge]

and that makes a big difference

raw oil and fresh water outputs tend to be much more stable and forgiving

for example you can often run 600 raw oil unlooped

[unique cypress]

I have a standard pipe setup. Same spacing, same angle, same height. Those setups should be exact same apart from fucking floating point errors and orientation in the world. If that matters, this is fucked beyond belief

[unique cypress]

That's why I'd say Zyranex is kinda right kinda wrong. You get up to ~550/min of 600/min on long manifolds, but not because of the consumption side

[vapid gorge]

the main thing about what's wrong with Zyr is how they present it. Their name is confusing to people who don't know what is going on. they present looped 600 loop as not being 600 pipes

but yeah there are small knowledge points.
I'm not surprised that a system that ran fine with raw product was more unstable from a secondary step

I haven't gone deep into testing cause... I just can't be bothered with that sort of thing, but it seems like the internal bufers of extractors being larger means they can output more stably and manage back flow a bit better?

But there are still steps you can use to get reliable piping, and at worst have to do minor tweaking if all you want is working pipes 🙂

[unique cypress]

I guess tomorrow I can test it with packagers with alumina solution. You can get up to 300/min from one, so the output rate would be just like from a normal extractor but the buffer would still be 50. Judging by what I saw in the pipes I don't think that's gonna make a difference, because I'm pretty sure the pipes lost flow first and that caused backup in some machines, not the other way around but we'll see

Anyway, I gotta wake up in 5.5 hours so I'm off

[amber umbra]

What's the "readout" for loss of pipe throughput in your tests? You looking at the machine efficiency number or using a different setup? When I explored the 600 fluid/minute pipe bug pre 1.0 I used the wet concrete with overflow splitters to an ICU. If the pipe throughput dipped below 600 fluid/minute it wouldn't stoichiometrically consume the limestone causing overflow into the ICU.

Kinda makes me wonder how other people did their testing like the ones that had the very low throughput on long manifolds.

[amber umbra]

It's good to avoid any "fancy" belt manipulating. If I'm making larger factories I only do basic belt combining for things like impure nodes. Then I use a calculator with the alt recipes of my choice to get the production chain. That gets scaled up or down to fit within a single belt of resource. Or a like 1/3, 1/4 of a belt if I'm using multiple identical modules of production. If I really really need more than 1 belts worth, I just run multiple belts in parallel and build additional identical produciton modules.

[vapid gorge]

yeah no stress. But I wouldn't bother with the testing.
One of the main reasons I can't be bothered with it is that there are so many variables that what may work in an isolated test might not work with general set ups. It's why I have a boiler plate method of 'this just works out' method.

[vapid gorge]

well the pre 1.0 'bug' is just managing back flow.
unless you mean the pre U7 bug where fluid actually got deleted from buffers?

[amber umbra]

I'm talking about the thing you're talking about.

"do pipes really not get 600 fluid/minute?". That thing

[vapid gorge]

right, just fluids being bi. It is a problem 😛

[amber umbra]

It is kinda funny looking back on my own experience with the "600 fluid/minute pipe feature". I was pretty convinced it wasn't a thing as it seemed ridiculous that pipes wouldn't actually give the throughput they were listed to give. But people kept mentioning it, so I did my thorough testing to fully answer it for myself.

Even chatted it up with you on the topic at the time

[vapid gorge]

I'm sure xD But yeah it does just boil down to fluids flowing to more empty spaces and having the pipe set up so that never happens in a way to stutter the system backwards

[amber umbra]

And there was at that time what looked like very slight on save load fluid weirdness for water extractors. Was really not a large effect at all, but with a sensitive readout it was pointing to it being a thing. Want to say WhatDarrenPlays was seeing on save load power output dips on his most recent save.

[vapid gorge]

that sounds like the u7 fluid deletion issue

iirc that was shadow fixed

[amber umbra]

Yadda yadda, seems like there's non-zero additional funkiness with fluids which makes the most prudent choice to just say "eh, good enough" and not fully dig into the details as that's a path to furstration.

[vapid gorge]

yeah, hence my approach of essentially doing all the most stable options xD

so that when I want to tweak a little weirdness into it it's generally not much of an issue

[amber umbra]

Yea. My save file I just did a "maximized it just works" style to not worry about it.

Anyway

[vapid gorge]

funilly enough, my approach mostly came out of me wanting to bottom feed all my machines reliably xD

[opaque quartz]

My suggestion: don’t try to centralize all iron production. There is plenty of iron on the map, so just build near resources and make what you need on-site

[prisma kraken]

agreed, there are very few places on the map where iron is sparse unless you are trying to build something for basic components in someplace like pink forest or spire coast (nb: don't do that!)

[molten raft]

The liquid discharge rate from the liquid tank should normally be the maximum value supported by the pipe, but I am getting discharge between 80 and 120, why?

[deft lichen]

and are your machines consuming the maximum?

[molten raft]

coal generators are active and the liquid tank is 30% full but I can't get it to drain at full speed

[deft lichen]

a buffer is redundant for coal generators

are you diagnosing the entire system or just the fluid buffer

[unique cypress]

a buffer is redundant for coal generators

FTFY

[restive sparrow]

1. Buffer is pointless.
2. If the tank isn't getting any more full or any less full then the flow out of it is exactly equal to the flow into it. It's not max flow because it's not receiving max flow.

[molten raft]

I wasn't using a buffer but I wanted to test it. 2 pump could run 2 generators, but it couldn't run the 3rd one. That's why I was suspicious. Since the liquid was not delivered at full speed, when I tested it, yes, it was like this.

[unique cypress]

3×45=135>120

[restive sparrow]

A buffer won't give you any more supply. It will only hold things.

[molten raft]

2 pumps sory

[restive sparrow]

Pumps or water extractors?

[molten raft]

2. • The tank is 50% full but the discharge rate is not full speed

[molten raft]

extractors

[restive sparrow]

2 water extractors running at 100% (120 * 2 = 240) should be able to supply enough water for just over 5 coal generators (240 / 45 = 5.3333).

[restive sparrow]

The flow rate out of the buffer will only ever be as high as whatever is consuming the water on the other end.

[molten raft]

I prepared a platform 50 meters above ground level and set up the generators on it. I started 2 water extractors. I tried to start 5 pumps. The liquid was insufficient. When I reduced it to 3, I saw that it worked smoothly. I changed 4 and 5 pumps to move the liquid up.

[restive sparrow]

Get rid of the buffer and use math to determine how many extractors you need.

Use pumps to get sufficient headlift.

And get consistant with calling things by the right name cause if absolutely everything gets called a pump then nobody will know what's going on.

[molten raft]

thanks for help

[restive sparrow]

!wikisearch cg

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=cg

[patent meadow]

yo

[oblique hollow]

To answer the actual question:
Below 75m3 fill level, buffers output fluid proportional to their fill level

You are at 31 m3 fill level
31 / 75 = 41.333%
So the outout rate will be around 300 x 41.333%, which is 124 m3/min

The fluid can leave in either direction, so this value seems accurate / close enough

[patent meadow]

I got 3 belts that need to go into a factory but they all have different amounts, and I need them to be split evenly then excess going back into the main line once it gets full how would I do that
Max belt Mk.4

[oblique hollow]

if each of those factories needs 209, you could just use smart splitters with overflow

because i do not think theres an actual splitter setup to turn 300 into 209

each belt has more than 209 on it so all 3 could be solved with overflow

[patent meadow]

My buddy said a balancer with over flow going out but im confused on how to make it cause all 3 splitters at the beggining would be full

would something like this work (450 coming in at the top)

[oblique hollow]

question: what are you doing with this stuff afterwards

like, the excess

cause that 300/min belt is technically not needed at all

you could just use the 450 and 225 /min belts

you only need 627/min total

[patent meadow]

hold on ill show

[unique cypress]

Depending on where the 4th belt is going, I'd either do a normal 3:4 balancer or a 3:4 balancer with smart splitters to move items away from the 4th output as much as possible

[patent meadow]

Is this good or too skitso 💀

It needs to go back out onto the main line for other factorys

or production lines I should say

[unique cypress]

I'd never build anything like that so frankly idk how to help. I'd've balanced all belts at the start and then connected them to the production lines. No mixing/overflow afterwards

[patent meadow]

could i do a 3:3 balancer then a smart spliter after the mergers then send it back?

[unique cypress]

I guess if the 3 main lines have equal consumption, you probably could

Mine never are equal, so it's not an option that I've ever used

[true tundra]

how do i stop my nails bunching?

new player first time play through

[unique cypress]

6 * 50 = 300 > 120

You're trying to fit what looks like 300 screws/min on a belt that definitely can't fit 300

[lethal prism]

when stuff clogs up it 9/10 times is due to a belt not having enought throughput^^

[unique cypress]

I can't tell if it's a mk1 or a mk2 but it's definitely not a mk4, which is what you'd need to move 300/min on one belt

[lethal prism]

mk2, lines on the belt are not straight

I think

Tbf it's kinda hard to tell

[unique cypress]

I can never tell the difference between a mk1 and a mk2 in screenshots

the line makes it pretty obvious in-game but the only thing I can see in the screenshots are the lights on the side

and I have no clue how dense they're supposed to be on a mk1 and a mk2

Not that it matters here because both are insufficient

[lethal prism]

mk1 belt light are smaller but more lights, but when it comes down to it I also start doubting myself if it is just the angle or if I am seeing it correctly

[lethal prism]

true lol

[opaque quartz]

What’s your production plan here?

[viral sparrow]

im pretty sure thats mk1 , mk2 i think is a bit more built up

i cant tell actually

you might be right those lines dont look as straight as from first glance

i was looking here at first where they look straighter

[thorny iron]

Best is probably to build a second particle accelerator at 15% and make 3 Dark Matter Crystals or how do you handle such byproducts?

[thorny iron]

Dark matter trap looks like a good recipe i'll look into this.
But this solution also uses 2 particle accelerators

[opaque quartz]

Trap + crystalization is the best way to get the exact number of DMC you need from your residue byproduct

Alternatively you can just use one PA overclocked and sink the extra DMC. Dark matter trap at 120% will convert 180 residue into 72 crystals

Even the vanilla crystal recipe would work which saves you from also having to convert diamonds to time crystals

[viral sparrow]

for reference this is an extra 128,160 points/min

[viral sparrow]

these are just examples for something i said in #satisfactory

imo second one is easier to read and more suits my build style - rather than producing all parts in one place (like all wire at one point) i prefer placing the needed machines near or in front of the machines that need it, plus there isnt lines going all over the place to different things (with more complex factories it becomes even harder to understand other planners for me because of how many different things are needed for other parts e.g quickwire)

sure the second example takes up more room but its easier for me to read- especially showing how much of a resource i need to allocate to one section of my factory

i only used these 3 parts as examples since they all used reinforced plates

the first example is a little bit similar to what i would expect from a different planner like tools or logistics but i do still see why people use those planners (although i never met someone who uses logistics)

heres how they look on tools/logistics (without moving things around) - i know i could move them around to make it look neater, but particularly take note to the 3rd and 4th screenshots, how even after tidying them theyre still a bit all over the place
plus having to organise something the planner made for me takes longer than just organising it myself because of how many different places one part may go to

anyways thats enough yapping, im not trying to discourage people from using different planners ofc just explaining why i prefer modeler since it was relevant at the time of writing to the convo in #satisfactory

[versed violet]

dumb/weird question - does truck station have to be level with the floor or can be slightly above or slightly sunk? what are the limits?

[vital orchid]

where can i find a list of balancers? looking for 1-5

[vapid gorge]

google search

or just clock your machines so you can make it 1-4

or 1-6 I suppose

[prisma kraken]

no, there is some give in the area in which vehicles can be loaded, a little up/down as long as you're not driving into the boom is fine

their area of load is actually probably a little too generous

[quiet wasp]

Unsure why this has inconsistent efficiency.
Some of the wire constructors are really low efficiency randomly, and rarely let out their stash, which currently have 400+, while the pipes struggle between 60-80% sometimes.

[vapid gorge]

you were just told several times in main chat

[quiet wasp]

I was told to move it here to show it so

[vapid gorge]

if you have enough throughput and parts per min it takes a while to balance out

[quiet wasp]

yeah, probably about 10-15 as an estimate

[vapid gorge]

is there something you don't understand that needs further clarification? feel free to ask

[crimson moat]

sounds like the belt is not actually delivering 480

or consumption is higher than on the plan

[haughty jackal]

What do you guys use for the diagrams?

[crimson moat]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[vapid gorge]

satisfactory tools

[haughty jackal]

Thank you

[prisma kraken]

i find that looking at a build in a tabular list (ie spreadsheet) is more useful than the diagrams past a certain point. those flow diagrams get really difficult to read

[dreamy nimbus]

why didnt u used the wire rotor and RIP ?
tldr

[viral sparrow]

because its an example

[viral sparrow]

this is why i use modeler lol

[unique cypress]

I don't see how a list is more readable than a graph tbh

[late hedge]

what tool is the darker images from?

[unique cypress]

Satisfactory logistics

[slate pagoda]

On a normal Merger, does the center Input have priority over the right input?

Idk if im dummy dummy but i feel like this should work, except it doesnt and the 300 Belt creates backflow, instead of the input of from the center manifold belt

[amber umbra]

All three inputs have equal priority on a basic merger.

[slate pagoda]

Disregard the splitter at the end the beltline ends there

[unique cypress]

without a smart splitter before the merger, this won't work

the second splitter doesn't split 500/200, it splits 350/350

and as always, i'd just use a balancer instead lol

[slate pagoda]

Yeah i can tell

[amber umbra]

Middle red splitter should be priority splitter with priority to middle refinery afaik

[slate pagoda]

Didnt wanna balance 12300 bauxite

[slate pagoda]

Ahhhhhhh yeah i guess

[river night]

either a smart splitter with overflow at the second refinery, or a priority merger

[amber umbra]

Or google “injection manifold”. I prefer to use setups that avoid the situation entirely for simplicity.

[slate pagoda]

I just made it flow back into the manifold before the second splitter it works now but looks ugly

[slate pagoda]

Thanks ill look it up

[river night]

if you are on 1.1 then priority mergers make injection manifolds simpler to think about, if you give the injection path the priority (and dont over-tax any belt), but without those you can do the same with overflows

[slate pagoda]

Ye im stuck in 1.0🤕

[opaque quartz]

You could consider clocking your refineries to take as much as you are supplying so you don’t have to attempt to do any balancing or injecting at all

[unique cypress]

then priority splitters or a balancer 🤷‍♂️

[opaque quartz]

aluminum lends itself pretty well to building in modules that take in 300 or 600 bauxite or whatever

[unique cypress]

or math

[slate pagoda]

No im not gonna remake 4hrs of beltwork

[opaque quartz]

in this house we love math

[slate pagoda]

Ye ill do that

[fathom garnet]

So, is the only reason people would use the leeched copper recipe because it uses fewer buildings or something?

[unique cypress]

Well, I don't use it

[fathom garnet]

Yeah, it doesn't seem worth it. Copper+a near infinite resource providing more final product than copper+sulpher.

[unique cypress]

And with a proper blueprint, spamming refineries is easy

[fathom garnet]

Yep.

Just becomes a matter of handling the logistics with the larger factories.

[opaque quartz]

Leached definitely feels like it has niche use. If you have excess sulfuric acid you need to sink maybe. For regular production the pure recipes usually win out

[quick gorge]

I would only consider the pure recipe for copper and normally for nuclear pasta production
Only really thought about leeching caterium

[prisma kraken]

i still haven't found a compelling use case for leached cat

[quick gorge]

Like I only want to use it because it would be only leeched recipe I would consider using it with and in my save I want a nice mix of recipes. Not just what everyone deems to be the best.
I'm using alternating iron and copper alloy because the design is cool. not because it makes for the best recipe

[unique cypress]

it's more caterium efficient.

[vague ibex]

Satis calculator is suggesting I supply 0.002 water per minute to a machine which is getting the other 287.998 water per minute from a feedback loop. Do I need to actually feed that 0.002 or will the game consider that a rounding error?

[unique cypress]

that is probably a rounding error on the calculator's part

[quaint condor]

Oof, my brain is not mathing today... I need 24.6 refineries for sloppy alu, 32.8 for electrode scrap, and 164 smelters for ingots ..... I'm trying to figure how I would separate that into blueprints.... Trying to take @unique cypress 's advice 😏

I'm assming, mk2 BPD, 1 sloppy, 2 electrode, and however many smelters .....

[thorn trail]

good luck finding a .6 refinery, I've been looking for one all day and all I can find are .3's and .5's.

[opaque quartz]

Plug the same plan into sf tools and see what it says

[unique cypress]

the ratio is 3:4:20 for sloppy alumina, electrode scrap, pure ingot

[quaint condor]

I'm obvously going to round and fudge the overclock amounts lol. But my brain isn't working at how to even distribute all that.

[quaint condor]

Er, yup lost me. is that 3 refineries for sloppy, 4 for electrode, and 20 smelters?

[prisma kraken]

yeah, the thing is that when you're caring about caterium, you often want to marry it with fused quickwire that goes well with pure copper & cat

[unique cypress]

Yeah. Assuming all have equal clock speeds, obviously

[unique cypress]

there's no reason why you couldn't do pure copper and leached cat

[quaint condor]

What I am going for is to process 12,300 Bauxite. And, from your suggestion earlier, I am trying to figure out a way I could use blueprints. But, I am trying to remain symmetrical with amount of buildings. And just assume 250% anywhere/everywhere as I have plenty of power to spare...

[opaque quartz]

I like doing fused wire and fused quickwire together

[quaint condor]

there is a perfect spot for doing fused quick wire just north of the blue crater. has water, copper, and caterium right there. provided you've unlocked resource wells.

[prisma kraken]

well either way, you end up making more cat ingots with leached than you can make with pure copper, so you always need to bring in extra copper

[slate pagoda]

Wanna have some inspiration from my setup?

[quaint condor]

Sure, why not?

[slate pagoda]

Itll be in screenshots in a min
Edit: whoopsie i posted in design and architecture

[slate pagoda]

There you go

[quaint condor]

What's the hook object built roughly in the center? Marking the middle?

Looks like walls anyhow.....

[slate pagoda]

Its marking the ammount of constructors in use for casings. I just marked whats running so I can problem solve idling and wouldnt get cobfused with an entirely idle system

[thorn trail]

wow, just figured out why my HOR refinery hasn't been working - I've been supplying it with the wrong quality of oil the whole time.

[slate pagoda]

I would have loved to use vertical splitters for the 6x smelter stack but im in 1.0 so i had to do spaghetti.

[supple mural]

is putting sloops in uranium fuel rod production ever a good idea?

[slate pagoda]

Depends on how you get rid of waste

[deft lichen]

shouldn't it be a really good idea?

assuming you handle the additional waste appropriately

[slate pagoda]

I use the recipie which uses uranium, so It would mess with uranium to uranium waste balance. It wouldnt work for me

[supple mural]

cuz like, if you want twice as much power, youd stuff the sloops into plutonium fuel rods, and save yourself the aluminum

[deft lichen]

but that creates plutonium waste, which is way more difficult to process

and you can sloop both U rods and Pu rods

[supple mural]

now you have 4x as much plutonium waste >.>

[deft lichen]

that would lead to 4x more Pu rods and waste

[slate pagoda]

How much Power are you aiming for?

[quaint condor]

@slate pagoda Where I am currently at. Center is all RF production, either side I am toying with for Pet coke, and then build out towards the front. Roof will be drone ports delivering fuel across the map and other alu products: #screenshots message

[supple mural]

i havent gotten to the "how much power" stage yet, all im tihnking of using a normal uranium node for all it's got

and how much power really depends on what recipes i choose or whether i sink at plutonium or ficsonium

and, well, whether i sloop the funny green rock

[slate pagoda]

Ye then do whatever you want with it

It really just depends on the setup youre running.
You only really shouldnt sloop the fuel rods if youre using the "fertile uranium" non fissile uranium recipie, because at a certain point you will have too much waste for too little uranium on the map.

[supple mural]

ive not heard anything good about that one

[slate pagoda]

Why?

[supple mural]

it uses up uranium that isnt used to make power

[opaque quartz]

Fertile uranium prioritizes plutonium over uranium

[slate pagoda]

yessur

[opaque quartz]

So if you are trying to max out plutonium rod production it is a good choice

[slate pagoda]

Excuse the pixels, this is my math. Pure uranium is the power made thriugh using all available uranium for fuel rods, excluding plutonium and ficsonium managment

[supple mural]

i was wondering why ficsonium was so big, then noticed the decimal point

so in your thing, are you using fertile uranium?

[slate pagoda]

One sec

I might be wrong about everything

[unique cypress]

Are you using sloops here? Or sinking plutonium?

[slate pagoda]

Not using sloops not sinking plutonium. Ive only realised plutonium cell production. The ficsonium is just theory so far

[unique cypress]

Using shards or similar to make DMR? Or from SAM?

[slate pagoda]

Nah havent gone into any recipies so far. It might be possible that there are bottlenecks i havent looked into yet

[unique cypress]

The main bottleneck for Ficsonium is SAM. The 1.2 TW you calculated is impossible if you don't use sloops, don't sink plutonium and don't make any byproducts

[supple mural]

usin up all the sam on the map 💀

[slate pagoda]

Yeah Im wrong about everything

Whoopsies

[supple mural]

fell victim to one of the classic blunders

[slate pagoda]

Dont build whatever i said I was wrong lol

[unique cypress]

I mean the 630GW from "pure uranium" is correct assuming 2100 uranium ore/min input

Idk what the rest is so I can't say how correct/incorrect it is

[slate pagoda]

I just went through the numbers

Total power if there are no bottlenecks

Even with the normal fissile recipie, is the instant plutonium cell any good?

[unique cypress]

Idk what's the top, but the bottom is correct for 50.4/22.4/112 U/Pu/Fs setup

But you're gonna need some sloops for the SAM

[slate pagoda]

So the bottom one is possible?

[unique cypress]

theoretically, with sloops

[quaint condor]

OK, so basically a bp with 1 sloppy, 2 electrode, and 7 smelters will work. And just need 150/min water to maintaing ..

[slate pagoda]

Lmao I jzst put the waste outputs i had calculated into the satosfactory tools calc and it calculated 2,1 TW

[slate pagoda]

The bauxite?

[quaint condor]

Yeah. 24 of those, and then one clocked slighty under (BP that is). Would be 500/min bauxite, 150 water (to maintain), 200 pet coke in, 500 ingots out.

Sloppy at 250, electrods at 166.6667, and smelters at 238.0952% for the 24 blocks.

[slate pagoda]

Am i bad at math or is electrode better

[quaint condor]

180 alu solution 80 pet coke in and 300 scrap/105 water out at 100%

[slate pagoda]

Oh yea it is

Im bad at math

[quaint condor]

Less scrap out than base, but less water too.

[slate pagoda]

How much crude oil are you using

[quaint condor]

I have 2700 at the site.

[slate pagoda]

I see

[quaint condor]

sec..

for pet coke production : 1,230/min

That's 18 refineries for HOR and 18 for Pet coke, clocked accordingly (less than 250% but can't remember the number.)

[slate pagoda]

Ye makes sense

[quaint condor]

Technically I could get away with 17/17, but I am trying to keep the numbers of buildings symmetrical.

[slate pagoda]

I guess ill consider doung that if i ever have to optimize for casings

[quaint condor]

Yeah, not sure the numbers of each I will be making at the moment. current plan is 12,300 ingots to 4100 sheets, 3,075 casings

Using both Alclad reciepies.

[slate pagoda]

Ok wait so why is ficsonium so bad when the whole process of making it is a pain in the butt

[unique cypress]

ask the devs

[slate pagoda]

Have you?

[unique cypress]

though so far they've refused to answer me

[slate pagoda]

Oh rip

[unique cypress]

I think they just pulled some numbers out of their ass because it doesn't make any sense to me.

[dawn crater]

did you ask nicely?

[slate pagoda]

I mean im not gonna complain about 1.9 tw, its gonna be tough to use that even. Maybe im stuoid and its impossible to use that much power? Though i havent gone into any of the phase 5 stuff so ill see.

[unique cypress]

But 1TW was possible before 1.0 and therefore 4TW with Augmenters and no Ficsonium

or 630 GW and 2.52 TW if you want waste-free

and there's Rocket Fuel

and bauxite to uranium conversion

there's 0 practical reason to make ficsonium

[river night]

ficsonium is essentially a recycling setup, as a bonus its kinda energy neutral, dont view it as a power production setup

[unique cypress]

putting plutonium into the sink is a recycling setup

why would I make ficsonium only to get rid of waste which I can already do for free

[river night]

its a choice, because burning the plutonium gives you plenty power, and afterall building complex factories is what you should aim to be doing, its like .. the game 😛

[slate pagoda]

The game was never about fun. The first word you learn when you take your very first step is efficiency

[river night]

and its more efficient to get the power out of the plutonium, instead of throwing it away! ficsit does not waste!

[unique cypress]

the point is that it's not

you could just make more uranium if you want more power and you'll spend less materials

[slate pagoda]

Sunken cost fallacy. Ill finish the thing regardless🥲

[quaint condor]

Make more how? via converters? or did I misunderstand the comment?

[unique cypress]

I'm making a mod specifically so I can actually motivate myself to make it. Because in vanilla, it's so garbage that I've twice lost motivation to continue playing the game

[slate pagoda]

Ye I saw the WP sheet you made it looked promising

[unique cypress]

More uranium rods. And if you run out of uranium ore, you can make more via converters, yes

[quaint condor]

Yo, if you know coding/modding, is it possible with current UE, to make the smoke more 'physics based'? lol

(Yes, yes, off topic, my bad 😏 )

[slate pagoda]

That would crash my game instantly

[quaint condor]

I had asked chat gpt one night. Gave me a whole bunch of code snippets that I have no clue if they work/what to do with 🤣

[unique cypress]

I've dabbled enough to add/modify recipes, and probably modify any "data" of a bunch of other stuff, but not something like that.

You can try asking the modding discord

[quaint condor]

OK, then here is one for you, You have a method of modifying saves (specifically 1.1 in this case) As I have a rogue elevator car that I can't get rid of and it's driving me bonkers lol

Outside of SCIM that is.

[unique cypress]

you mean scim doesn't work or you don't want to use it?

[quaint condor]

It doesn't work. The elevator car doesn't show up.

It's just the car, Not the personal elevator nor the stop.

[unique cypress]

Once again, probably ask the modding discord. I tried to decode the .sav files myself and I couldn't figure it out. I can get some data with a hex editor, but it turns into gibberish a few lines in

[quaint condor]

Fair. Though I feel I had asked before for any updated for 1.1OK, nevermind, looks like I hadn't.

[prisma kraken]

a little late on the reply, but your numbers seem to be discounting a whole bunch of variables that shift the calculus around

[quaint condor]

Well, nice... so far the BP I've made based on my numbers earlier seems to be working like a champ. 150 fresh water, 500 baux input, and 500/min ingot out. With recycling waste and everything pegged at 100%. Going to let it run for a long while and see if I get any backup from the electrode scrap refineries.

The middle refinery is Sloppy alumina and the outside ones are electrode scrap btw. And pure alt for ingots in the smelters.

Now if only I can find a way to shrink this design down to a 4x4 🤔

[prisma kraken]

something you might want to consider doing is making a balanced split for the scrap so that the manifold doesn't take ages to fill. that would require some clock changes to the smelters though

[quaint condor]

The manifold for the smelters is being fed from boths ends from the electrode refineries.

It filled almost instantly.

Though, when you have 500 being fed from both ends heh. 1000/min fills 7 smelters really quickly.

Though, I did have the output stalled for a sec while setting up a sink for testing.

Still though, I am slightly leery that the 'simple' recycle piping will hold up. Only time will tell.

It has been mentioned to me that stutters in the game can apparently have adverse affects.

[prisma kraken]

i don't like waiting for the manifold to stabilize on aluminum. too many other problems can crop up & it allows you to see if stuff is running correctly by just watching the smelters for a few seconds

that and 500 scrap sitting in each machine kinda sucks when you go to delete stuff 🙂

[quaint condor]

Currently, all machines are pegged at 100%. The electrodes are emptying water as soon as it comes in, and the counter I have on the single mk5 belt is staying around 500/min (not sure how accurate those are)

[prisma kraken]

sounds like you know what your doing 🤷

[quaint condor]

Ahh, well yeah, usually I have a sink with like 4 ISC hooked up for such occasions 🤣

[quaint condor]

By no means do I consider myself a pro/expert, or anything in the vicinity lol. Though when seemingly 'simple' stuff like this works, it makes my question why the large consensus is that aluminum is such a bear. But, I will happily eat my words if this does end up getting clogged over time. Namely the water 'recycling'

Huh, just checked the water extractor as welll, and it's pegged at 100 too... nice.

[prisma kraken]

I tend to prefer balancing things where i can

(steel for 180/min hmf)

[quaint condor]

I'm also assuming, with watching the alumina solution piping, seeing it stay at 300/min flow and at a constant fill (in this case 7m/21.8) is a good thing?

[prisma kraken]

i never put much stock in the flow rates from pipes. the readouts are too ephemeral and hard to really get a good number from

[quaint condor]

And this is just a bp I am trying. If this works, it will be 24 at current clocks, and a 25th sightly underclocked from current, to produce the worlds bauxite.

Though, not counting the Pet coke setup, but still.

[quaint condor]

I mean, I know the 21.8 is due to the length of the pipe. But I'm assuming seeing that stay constant means that things are 'purring well'

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that isn't too bad. it is pretty much 2 hor + 2 coke refineries per 600 bauxite

[quaint condor]

I think I ended up with 18/18, to keep the number of buildings even

for 12,300 baux.

[prisma kraken]

if you're doing it all in one place, yeah

most i've ever done in a single place is all the pink forest baux at crater lakes

[quaint condor]

Did a straight run through the center, grabbing all the baux nodes along the way, and am taking it all to the swamp.

[willow harbor]

If I want my machines to show 100% efficiency do I need to preload them?

[quaint condor]

They should get there as they run,

Preloading just makes it happen quicker.

[willow harbor]

they are all sitting at 98% and its making me rather upset lmao

[quaint condor]

I should say quicker-ish probably. As I believe the machine calcs the efficiency as it runs.

[prisma kraken]

i've barely gotten myself out of the desert

[quaint condor]

Something is lagging. Maybe whatever you're feeding to?

[quaint condor]

Niice. That a rail along the NW corner?

[prisma kraken]

oft times patience helps when you use manifolds. if you're dealing with 98% on aluminum refineries, that sometimes ends up being a pipe problem

[willow harbor]

the belt it is exiting into isnt full

[prisma kraken]

yeah, new track, just floating foundation at this point

[willow harbor]

its getting a flow of 30 raw iron/ min

[prisma kraken]

need plastic out on the coast

[quaint condor]

Ahh yes, the 'many other projects that get started and will get finished when we get around to them' satisfactory 😏

[willow harbor]

all four of my smelters as well as all of my constructors are doing the same thign

[quaint condor]

What's the miner doing?

[willow harbor]

miner is doing 100%

[quaint condor]

Is it feeding enough fast enough? ..

[willow harbor]

120/min to four smelters

belts are sufficient as well

[quaint condor]

OK, what's being fed by that setup? is the output steady or small stop and goes?

[prisma kraken]

without question, it needs some work, but i can deal with it being like this for now

[quaint condor]

These are just all the questions I ask myself when trying to get stuff pegged at 100. which has only becoming a recent endeavor lol

[quaint condor]

Awwlll boi ... I see a shwanky bridge in your future 😏

Don't ask where shwanky came from... no clue

[prisma kraken]

we'll see, i'm not much of one for just building non-functional stuff

[willow harbor]

Ignore the hole in the ground I needed some plates for observ tower lol

it should be a 100% efficent setup for 10 reinforced plates a minute