math-and-meta

[cerulean stratus]

in northern forest, caterium is pretty far away from crystal

So you don't really want to play with recipes that mix the 2

[glad vigil]

Rigor motor is great

[thorn bane]

i personally hate spamming manufacturers so i usually dont to rigor motors since that needs a lot of crystal oscillators, but both are viable

[thorn bane]

i feel like quartz and caterium are roughly the same in norhtern forest

[cerulean stratus]

quartz is in the cave, next to coal, iron, copper and concrete

[thorn bane]

but you actually need suprisingly few motors, so default is kinda fine
specially with good stator/rotor recipes

[glad vigil]

Steel rotor with iron pipe is nowhere near good

[thorn bane]

i took the one next to the canyon
way easier imo

[cerulean stratus]

if used well you can do a lot in that location

[glad vigil]

In terms of resource efficiency

[cerulean stratus]

yeah but in terms of logistics it's godly

[glad vigil]

But the map got so much iron that you’ll probably never find yourself running out of it

[thorn bane]

❤️ copper rotor
actually worth having to deal with screws

[cerulean stratus]

I think it's less about how much iron the map has, and more about how much iron the locations have and you need

[glad vigil]

I never ran out of iron in any playthrough

Well, never had a feeling that I need to create a dedicated iron train

[thorn bane]

its not the iron, its the amount of machines you need to build imo
iron wire and iron pipes are ghastly in terms of building efficiency

[cerulean stratus]

Iron wire beats having to use screws, I think

[thorn bane]

steel screws makes screws completely fine

[cerulean stratus]

yeah I don't worry too much

well it depends, I wouldn't make steel screws on the canyon, but I would next to the cave

[civic bronze]

+making downclocked constructors before machines that need them helps with not dealing with 40 belts of screws

[safe heron]

the thing is: uranium cannot be used in any other way. and thus its purpose is power production.
oil on the other hand is handy in a lot of the production chains. if you try to make use of all nodes or at least of most resources in the game, youre def better off making some nuclear power ig

[thorn bane]

pretty sure you can use converters and make that oil from sam

[cerulean stratus]

same for uranium

[thorn bane]

wait converters dont make oil im stupid

but ye its not about the uranium imo, its the sam

also its 300 oil
for 44GW
like how much oil do you need

pretty sure i never had a base use more than 600 oils worth of power
and thats 1 pure extractor

[cerulean stratus]

sounds like you never had to overclock a quantum encoder

and a particle accelerator at the same time, both max slooped

[thorn bane]

i had 3 fully slooped oced finishing phase 5
so ye been there done that

actually i dont remember how much power i used

[cerulean stratus]

I wouldn't do that without 122 GW of power

each encoder is like 16GW max

[thorn bane]

27 right?

2gw*13.431
assuming sloops and slugs

[cerulean stratus]

and then you have to add your normal factory working

[safe heron]

3x the power? i only see 2x

[thorn bane]

#math-and-meta message
ye im getting 2x as well

[outer vale]

should be more than that. Just adding plutonium in my setup was double, and that was without using all the uranium-efficient alts

[thorn bane]

ficsonium: 2/0.2+0.5/0.1+2.5/1 = 17.5 NPPs
uranium: 3.5/0.2 = 17.5 NPPs + 0.875 Plutonium sink
so 3.5/2 = 75%
thats without plutonium unit though

[opal locust]

my 2 FMF/Minute factory is almost done. All I need to do is setup a Nitrogen packaging station and the last drone will start grabbing that.

[safe heron]

i mean ... its still as good as the default rotor, right?

default rotor takes 5 iron rods and 25 screws = 11.25 rods = 11.25 iron ingots
steel rotor takes 2steel pipes and 6 wire = 8 + 3.333 ingots 11.333 iron ingots

thats 0.74% more iron usage

[outer vale]

and how many buildings?

[safe heron]

and copper rotor takes 6 copper sheets and 52 screws = 6 copper ingots and 13 iron rods = 6 copper and 13 iron
... divided by three makes 2 copper ingots and 4.333 iron ingots

[thorn bane]

steamed sheets though

nvm im stupid

[safe heron]

yeah almost all recipes i just talked about are alternative xD

[safe heron]

just made the math in my head. am currently not at my windows pc with the modeler etc

[outer vale]

actually goes in Steel Rotor's favour I think

Cast Screw brings the left down to 33.333 constructors

[safe heron]

try with cast screws 😉

ok, so steel still slightly better

[outer vale]

yeah steel rotor comes off pretty well here

[wind spade]

*steel rod -> base screw 😛

[thorn bane]

eh kinda borked using default iron rods and screw though
steel rod and steel screw drop those down a lot

[outer vale]

I thought the point here was iron-only

[thorn bane]

ah

[outer vale]

may be wrong there, but that's the impression I got at least

yeah I ain't analysing every route lol

[safe heron]

ill definitely be doing 200 rotors/m
default/steel) ~1220 iron ore
copper) ~466 iron ore + 160 copper ore
seems both very okayish

[safe heron]

its funny that the default recipe with steel rod makes the rotor actually pure steel xD

[thorn bane]

haha ye
where "steel" rotor always uses copper or iron for wire xD

[wind spade]

and costs less steel than steel rotor 😛

[safe heron]

FYI, i put a comment just above section 2. Can you see that?

[thorn bane]

oh yes
its been a while though
i made this when mk6 belts didnt even exist xD

[safe heron]

it actually has nothing to do with mk6 xD

[thorn bane]

im still not 100% sure what turning the mergers into priority mergers would change btw
i never understood that part in factorio either
from my understanding it behaves exactly the same

[safe heron]

and at this point priority mergers are extremly handy xD

[thorn bane]

what do they actually change though

[safe heron]

hmmmm. wait xD

need to think about it lol

can you see my updated comment?

and more important: do you understand my 'ascii-art' lol

[thorn bane]

lets move this to discord xD
you mean this right?
hmmmm that could work

[safe heron]

yes exactly 🙂

[thorn bane]

might have to think more about out but ye so far it seems to behave the same
and for half the space!

[safe heron]

yes

and no multiple iterations needed

[dusky dust]

3x multiplier, anyway; an extra 2x. I probably didn't speak exactly. :)

[safe heron]

other topic ... rigor motor is insane. but in terms of resource availability its probably cheaper to use the default motor. it's iron only and there is plenty iron on the map. quartz however can be used for other stuff like silica in several productions

[dusky dust]

Yeah, I've got a bad habit of making pure-iron motors pretty frequently. :D

Eats a lot of iron, but it's difficult to care since there's so much iron everywhere

[thorn bane]

im getting 30.625 nuclear power plants instead of 17.5
thats 175%
not using plutonium unit though

[dusky dust]

Ah, right, that could be the difference -- I ended up going with Unit. (Which I admit is slightly silly, since you'd technically end up with more power if you just put that extra Uranium into the Uranium step, instead. Didn't realize the mistake until I was already through building everything out though. :)

[thorn bane]

well also instant plutonium cells

[dusky dust]

Yeah, I'd used all the alts

[thorn bane]

theyd probably be fine if they buffed ficsonium xD

[dusky dust]

Oh wait, it's Fertile Uranium that I shouldn't've used, not the others

All the others are 👍 in terms of Uranium -> Power efficiency, but if you're using all the others, Fertile technically loses you some power

(for the same amount of raw Uranium)

[safe heron]

yeah fertile uranium is actually not as good as i thought as well. So are we on the same page that its definitely not x3? not even x2.5?

[thorn bane]

yes in terms or uranium usage but it leads to more ficsonium per uranium so its more sam/bauxite
can use that extra sam to easily make up for the uranium loss

its probably fine though if you keep the plutonium waste

[safe heron]

yes, one could create like 28004800 uranium and not use that much aluminum. making same power probably although sinking pfrs xD

[vapid gorge]

quartz can also be almost completely ignored for the whole game

[safe heron]

sure. but silicon circuit boards or some other recipes are quite nice with all the silica

[vapid gorge]

cat cb and cat computer v convenient too

[safe heron]

there are so many options 😢

[vapid gorge]

but yeah you can, if you want, make a handful of oscilators for the whole map and still have a massive final space part production line

and hell, you could sap a bunch of bauxite of silica for silica boards

[safe heron]

this is completely irrelevant xD
will probably go for the steel rotors, just because of simplicity

and either with 4x the iron or some oscillators bumping up the output xD

maybe both lol

[vapid gorge]

eh, coal is everywhere. More convenient to do steel screws and regular pipes

that's so much iron for 40 motors

and that's with the pure recipe xD

[safe heron]

i think thats already accounted for 3000 diamonds/m

[safe heron]

i know xD
but iron is not needed for anything else lol
6000 going into my HMFs and the remaining iron on the map is only tapped for some local projects eg nitric acid or nuclear power parts or whatever

[vapid gorge]

why 3000 diamonds? are you trying ot use the world's resources?

[safe heron]

nah not the entire world. just want a challenge xD

dunno out of my head rn, but i think i need ~2080 darkmatter crystals/m

wanted to go for turbo diamonds.

other topic ....
just found this schematic on the wiki
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Balancer#Balancer_examples

the third step shouldn't be necessary, right?

if you have a-b-c-d amounts on the four belts. then after the frist step you have (ab)-(ab)-(cd)-(cd) amounts on the belt. (xy) means the average of x and y.
lets state (ab) = e and (cd) = f. We can write this as e-e-f-f
and after the second step we would have (ef)-(ef)-(ef)-(ef) and thus everywhere the same amount.

[cerulean stratus]

Are you using trains for this?

[safe heron]

who and for what?

[cerulean stratus]

I'm asking why balance

[safe heron]

i don't lol
just saw this on the wiki and thought that it's wrong xD

[cerulean stratus]

Maybe you're assuming the 4 belts have equal amounts

But what if the first one has more than the others

[safe heron]

im assuming the frist belt has a amounts, the second b, the third c and the fourth d

if they had all the same amounts a balancer wouldn't be necessary in the beginning, right?

[cerulean stratus]

Oh this is a 4 to 4

[thorn bane]

only input the first and third lane
without the last balancer youd only get output on the first and third lane instead of on all 4

[cerulean stratus]

What he said

[thorn bane]

wait no nvm

it has to be some edge case like this

[safe heron]

what the frick is this?

[thorn bane]

factorio

[safe heron]

thought so xD

looks ugly af

sry, wasnt serious

[cerulean stratus]

Factorio being ugly is why I chose satisfactory

Btw, I finally figured out the right layout for my factory

[safe heron]

but seriously, dont know what this is supposed to illustrate xD

[cerulean stratus]

Experiment

The new layout is both expansible and has controlled failure

[safe heron]

ah, i think i udnerstand now ... so the thing is that this shows something completely different.

the schmeatic from the wiki splurges the following:

1. (12) and (34) at the same time
2. (13) and (24) at the same time
3. (12) and (34) at the same time

[river tusk]

it's conveyer belt sushi,not an alien concept i'm sure

from satisfactory

wich is also in the space age now

[safe heron]

the image shows:

1. (12) and (34) at the same time
2. (23) and (14) at the same time
3. (12) and (34) at the same time (only in the bottom row)

[safe heron]

here the 3 step is unnecessary

[safe heron]

here it is not

[river tusk]

factorio was designed to be more complex then satisfactory though just in a 2d setup is all

both games will seriously make your mind work though,don't get me wrong

[safe heron]

well, wait .... step 3 shouldn't be necessary in both setups .... hmmmm

[river tusk]

pluss factorio bases there gameplay from the science and industry behind the java version of minecraft wich I also run in my own perserved 1.7.10 java environment as well as my own modpack

can find the info on my project through my avatar both educating game designers and mod/modpack developers alike

[safe heron]

i think there is something wrong with this image xD
(should be noted that ive never played the game xD)

[river tusk]

picture an old rts with an insane industrial curve and you baisicly have that

I used to be a command and conquer fan myself but also played warcraft and starcraft back before it became wow,lol

[pastel obsidian]

command and conquer had its code officially released recently

[river tusk]

interesting enough they also left ea and joined up with petroglyph games

hence all the 8 bit strategy titles,lol

[thorn bane]

AH

[pastel obsidian]

oh i remember the promise that was Grey Goo

[thorn bane]

ok input only first and second lane
output on second and fourth lane
then it will limit the speed to 50% without the last 2 at the end

[river tusk]

screens i don't feel do the game any justice unfortunately https://youtu.be/OiczN-8QKDA

to get all the aspects of the math meta and science used it helps to own the actual game

[safe heron]

i think thats not true. i also dont know whether these splurgers work the same as two splitters and two mergers. (additionally it seems like the belts 1 and 3 are backing up because they are not used, the items have nowhere to go.)

[amber edge]

factorio goated game fr

cuz trains in it

[river tusk]

want to see something realy funny?

I have the same trains in my game as well

lol

[amber edge]

fr i design my trains based on how i did from factorio

[river tusk]

and i get my mod from actual engineers who restore the old steam engines and trams as well as working on all the others irl

[safe heron]

i already thought the channel got derailed ....

[river tusk]

i'm sorry but irl facts speak spades about everything

[thorn bane]

ye pretty sure this is it
just look at the wiki satisfactory picture and follow the lines
only input 1 and 2
only allow output on 2 and 4
it will only allow 1 lane of throughput through

[amber edge]

exactly same shit i would do from factorio, no idea if its not efficient in game but it works well

[river tusk]

the reason i say that is everyone handles thiere sushi belts differently with a different amount of inserters and extractors not shown thiere

[thorn bane]

only 1 belt is handeling the throughput (the orange circled one)
so its throughput is limited to 50%

[safe heron]

whut ???

and the one above the orange circled?

[river tusk]

not as clear a thrughput but it works

seems like it isn't without it's loose ends though

[thorn bane]

that goes into nothing since output 1 and 3 are disconnected

[river tusk]

surprised you aren't piping axtra materials into a ticket machine quite honestly

[safe heron]

what do you mean by disconnected?

[thorn bane]

as in if you only pull resources from 2 and 4 then you dont get full throughput
hence its not a "perfect" balancer
its probably fine for most situations though

[river tusk]

well like how the bottem left crates and mixed on the right aren't realy a part of anything

[safe heron]

i really do not understand what you want to say xD sorry

[amber edge]

heres my around 2000 copper balanced into 4 mk5 belts

[river tusk]

i'm saying why are you missing some of the conections on the drawing ?you only underline a certain part of it and the rest is left blank?

[amber edge]

put two of it then have middle part switching top to bottom

[river tusk]

yes 2 but it looks like it can go up to 4

[amber edge]

its perfect 4x4 balancer, any of belt pulls it pulls from 4 input equally

[river tusk]

unless i was looking at that wrong

[safe heron]

ok, lets do it step by step.
on belts 1 and 2 we have 400 items/min each, on 3 and 4 we have nothing.
how many items do we have after the first step on each belt? @thorn bane

[river tusk]

it's not the math that was confusing me but rather the way it was marked in the plans

[thorn bane]

well if you only use output 2 and 4 then
0
400
0
0

[safe heron]

nooo

400 400 0 0

[thorn bane]

like look at the first lane
wheres it gonna go

[river tusk]

that was the part that i couldn't figure out the way trhat it was illustrated

[safe heron]

the first lane splits into 200/200 and the second as well. then 200 from first and 200 from second lane merge. in both cases for lane 1 and lane 2

[river tusk]

because it shows more then what is actualy used but you only have pathing over half of them

[thorn bane]

yes thats the point
the problem here is that this doesnt work if you only use output 2 and 4

[river tusk]

ah ok so i didn't miss anythinmg then it was intentional,lol

[safe heron]

ahhhh, you dont use the other outputs ....

dang i didn't get that xD

[thorn bane]

yes
basically it doesnt work as 2x2 balancer if you use those specific lanes
which isnt a problem if you use all 6

[river tusk]

ah ok now that makes a hell of a lot more sense now,lol

[safe heron]

i mean if you don't use outputs of lanes 1 and 3, they back up. in this case 800 items/min would go on lane 2 after step 2 and thus 400/m will end up on lanes 2 and 4 eventually.

[thorn bane]

apparently this is called "throughput-unlimited behaviour"

[river tusk]

ok sounds like you have it all figured out then,keep it up

[thorn bane]

the belt i circled would limit it to 480 or w.e.

[safe heron]

but you are right if you don't consume the outputs completely and items back up into this balancer then the balancer can't magically continue to work.

but that should shouldn't make a difference even if you use all three steps of splurging.
imagine lane4 output is not used then the outputs 1,2,3 wouldn't magically balance to all get the same amount

[river tusk]

and thierein lies the true problem on how to optimize eficiency

once you can figure all that out you will be as good as golden,lol

[safe heron]

if you input 20/20/20/20 and have belt limit e.g. 120. Then you'd get 20/20/40/x as outputs where 'x' means that the output is not used.

[thorn bane]

eh fuck balancers
should never use them
output priority (smart splitters) is way better

[river tusk]

so the real trick is finding a use for every output unless you are building a warehouse backstock

[safe heron]

no the real trick is don't use balancers for x outputs if you only use x-k outputs

[river tusk]

fair enough

[safe heron]

my opinion remains: the third layer is not necessary. not at all ....

[river tusk]

depending on the situation for advanced builds though you don't feel thiere may come a time when those splitters may be handy?like in the case of multiple rescource types

[safe heron]

and of course you can often use smart splitters. I actually never needed these fancy balancers

[river tusk]

I do know when they show the mobile minning station they use that both as a way to fuel thiere machines as well as providing ammo for guns and manufacturing items and then thiere is also the uses for fluids and gasses as well

but again different games develop on different aspects of science and industry this was made to be more sci fi I feel

[opal locust]

So is this what I should do for packaging Nitrogen via Drones?

Drone takes packaged nitrogen and drops off empty fluid tanks to be filled with more nitrogen in a closed loop?

[vapid gorge]

I'd use a buffer for the containers

but sure

and you only need to fuel drones at one stop

[opal locust]

Eh, better to be overprepared than under

[vapid gorge]

just wasting drones and power but eh

[opal locust]

power probably won't be a concern until Phase 5

and by then I can just make a Rocket Fuel plant to ride through Phase 5

[tame harbor]

I'd say you're good

[opal locust]

yes I did spend all of my sloops on power augmenters, I just think they're neat.

so all I need to do is an initial feed of empty tanks?

[vapid gorge]

yup

[opal locust]

is 1 drone bay's worth enough to get started?

[vapid gorge]

entirely depends how much you're moving. Like anything else in the game

how much is 'get started' to you?

[opal locust]

Well right now I simply need enough for my Fused Modular Frame factory, which needs 50/minute

[vapid gorge]

50 gas? so like...12.5 cannisters pm. yeah that's safe 😛

[opal locust]

I've noticed something since I've started using drone ports. A storage container will prioritize sending something to the drone port before the dimensional depot.

[vapid gorge]

you have to use belts to do this so unless you have a smart splitter that doesn't happen

unless you're using an ISC as a splitter? in which case, don't

they don't work like that

[pastel obsidian]

Storage containers will prioritize the bottom output over the top

[opal locust]

I never knew that. So if I wanted the DD to fill up first I'd have to use the bottom slot.

[pastel obsidian]

Yep

You could add a smart splitter somewhere

But once the container fills up it will output from the top and bottom until it's empty

[opal locust]

Well, while my FMFs stock up, I guess I should go for Supercomputers next

I'll drone in the plastic and rubber as I'm going the caterium route for this one

I had 3 spots I had in mind

Rocky Desert Caterium + North Copper, Rocky Desert Caterium + South Copper, or Dangle Spires Caterium/Copper

I kind of want to try the Dangle Spires build

[vapid gorge]

this is inaccurate
the outputs for ISCs are randomised on load

this is why they can't be used as a reliable splitter/feeder

[civic bronze]

I've heard big power storage units can cause some performance issues, is it only when they are loaded or does it impact whole save?

What i mean, if i build it in one corner of the map, will it have any impact when its not rendered?

[vapid gorge]

no idea XD

[civic bronze]

Thanks for the input cobalt 😂

[vapid gorge]

yw 🙂

from other aspects in the game it sounds like whatever impact would at least be much reduced in a far corner. Why do you need so much?

[fallow siren]

shouldnt be, it only affect when you nearby them

there was once a bug i got when mass building power storage, cause insane stutter

[civic bronze]

Im just thinking tbh, dont feel like i need them yet i have plenty of power left
but yeah started using particle accelerators and wondering

[fallow siren]

or just have enough power than you dont need to worry about consumption ever again

[civic bronze]

Intresting, you think its the same type of stutter when you build a lot of foundations, or belts? Or try to paint big pipe network?

[fallow siren]

different, this stutter actually made my game run at seconds/frame

[vapid gorge]

Maybe the power animation? shrug

[fallow siren]

its like when you installed a mega chainsaw mod and collects 50k leaves at once

[civic bronze]

Maybe your blueprint was so big 😂

[pastel obsidian]

Placing power storage might just add a lot of calculations and changes that the game can't handle in one frame

[fallow siren]

thats why i rarely use power storage

it cause performance issue

[pastel obsidian]

But only when building it with blueprints

Or normally

[opal locust]

Drones really were the key to me getting through Phase 4, there's my 2 Supercomputers/Minute factory.

[opal locust]

huh, because I've spent all that time setting up a drone automation network, this is all I need to do for Cooling Systems

And with Cooling Systems, that opens up Turbo Motors, and since I already have FMF and RCU automated that's also Pressure Conversion Cubes

I'm 3 factories away from finishing Phase 4

granted it would still be a few hours of waiting on Project Assembly parts, but I feel like I'm nearing the end of Phase 4

[proven pawn]

oh wow

that looks reallly easy

[wraith sluice]

I need hwlp with my electricity. Rn im a solo player and have around 700mw max but i have like 7 or 8 coal generators running. I dont calculate nothing and im even supriesed everything works

[vapid gorge]

keep making groups of 8 coal gnes

!wikisearch cg

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=cg

[vapid gorge]

find a few coal nodes next to water, mind and burn it

[opal locust]

Where did you start?

[wraith sluice]

I have it build like kinda similar

[wraith sluice]

The grass lands idk the name

[vapid gorge]

those are good units to build in 🙂 just build more

head north north west, you'll find a lake with coal

[opal locust]

A common place to expand your power grid after biofuel is the lake northwest of the grass fields

4 coal nodes with plenty of water to work with

[wraith sluice]

But the coal gens are in like a sinkhole with 3 or 4 nodes

[vapid gorge]

so?

[wraith sluice]

Thats where i build it

[vapid gorge]

good, keep building more.

[wraith sluice]

Yesterday i rebuilt it bc my power was getting short but it spikes and drops constantly and i cant figure out wyh

[vapid gorge]

over head shots of your whole layout with pipes .

only way to really trouble shoot your issue

[wraith sluice]

What is that?

[opal locust]

if it's spiking, then it means your coal generators are sputtering with not enough input

[vapid gorge]

take pictures from over head

from above

[wraith sluice]

Oh well i have 4 nodes and i tried to split into 6 lr 7 mergers

[wraith sluice]

Cant rn goin to school

[vapid gorge]

pictures. From above

then come back when you're on your game

[wraith sluice]

Ok

[silent shoal]

I have a setup like this of 6 blenders (two blueprints of 3 blenders)
Each blueprint needs 300 Nitrogen Gas. I bring a hose with 600 and split it.
The problem is that not enough gas is reaching the first blender (on both sides)
How can I fix this?

[vapid gorge]

loop and flood is first step.

how is the nitrogen coming in? packages?

or if this is the whole manifold, feed from the middle

[silent shoal]

Directly from the resource well pressurizers
In pipeline

[vapid gorge]

and this is all the machines being fed from that pipe?

these 3?

[silent shoal]

In the picture there is an arrow to the left, this is a 600 pipe (input) that is divided between the 2 blueprints.

Each blueprint has 3 machines
2- consume 75 per minute (each(2*75))
1- (The blender near me) is overclocked and consumes 150

And in total each blueprint consumes 300 Nitrogen Gas
per minute

[wraith sluice]

I there also a picture or page for the coal splitting bc thats my main problem

[wraith sluice]

Are bp useful if you build freely? Or are they more useful in a factory building whats calculatet?

[silent shoal]

This is useful when you build something more than once...
If it's something complex that will take you half an hour to build why not build it in BP Designer and then in the second one put 2 instead of wasting half an hour building another one?

[wraith sluice]

Ohh ok thx

[pastel obsidian]

They can be useful when you need to place down lots of constructors and smelters, having the belt work done for manufactures is also nice. You can go as complex or as simple as you like with them

[rotund ingot]

is this a good plan for plastic/rubber? in terms of ratios and fluid pipe fill amounts?

[zealous coral]

Easier is to set residual rubber, and use that rubber to recycled plastic, this plastic send to recycled rubber and that rubber (partially) to another factory with recycled plastic. Less circular connections.

[silent shoal]

This seems to be the only way to get the most plastic and rubber out of 600 Crude Oil...
Note you will need ALT recipes

[rotund ingot]

so essentially splitting the recycled plastic into 2 packs of machines?

[white bloom]

but circular connections are what's so fun about that! 🙂

[vapid gorge]

Ah I’d loop each group and put a pump on each beach right after the split in two

[silent shoal]

I trust friends too much...
The input was not 600...
The problem has been fixed

[rotund ingot]

Im guessing this is more power intensive due to the blenders, but this is basically the same thing no?

[white bloom]

diluted fuel uses actually a little less power than diluted packaged fuel if you account for packaging and unpacking

[vapid gorge]

I was a little surprised by it not working like that. Two smaller branches with gas is often not awful for stability

[white bloom]

issue is diluted fuel isn't obtainable until you have blenders. but if you do, go straight ahead and use that one, no reason to still build DPF

[silent shoal]

I'm more comfortable using satisfactorytools...
Basically you'll end up with the same thing

[silent shoal]

What bothered me was that the copy that was identical to where the problem was is fine...
There are 4 such BPs in total...
Then I checked the input

[pastel obsidian]

You don't need much plastic to get you to blenders

Or rubber

[rotund ingot]

yeah, I'm mostly curious if the machines being broken apart like this and the pipe values being weird values is setting me up for flow issues, etc.

[pastel obsidian]

If you remove the polymer rubber the ratios work better

Just send the rubber straight to the container

[silent shoal]

what do you mean?

[white bloom]

I wouldn't do that. There is no problem with a circular setup. The point where the residual rubber is injected into the (recycled) rubber loop is a nice use case for the new priority mergers - the residual rubber should be prioritized to reduce waste. Between that and an overflow sink on the residual rubber line before the injection point, it's gonna be smooth sailing even if your rubber and plastic demand completely backs up while you still have fuel demand elsewhere (e.g. for power production).

I usually just build a long line of refineries between a rubber belt cycle and a plastic belt cycle, with the recycled rubber refineries facing from the latter to the former and the recycled plastic refineries facing from the former to the latter. Smart splitter overflow out of the loop to output. Looks clean af, works like a charm. Embrace the circles.

[zealous coral]

this is my plan, but with turbofuel and petroleum coke , use 2700 Oil and plastic rubber production is done via steps

[unkempt oar]

I like to chain them like this, it looks very neat once built

and I'm very satisfied that the number perfectly matches mk6 and mk2 pipes

my pipes do not flow tho, but that's another story

[rotund ingot]

yeah, dont mk2 pipes @ 600 not work properly?

[unkempt oar]

they don't but I might try to fill the pipes completly before

honestly out of the 300 hours i've spent on this game, at least half of them were used to debug pipes

and i'm not afraid to said they are too frustrating to play with and should need a rework

[vapid gorge]

Keep them simple , flood, and loop them.

Save yourself some pain

[unkempt oar]

ok i get it nerds it's real fluid dynamics but

1. i don't care, I just want a neat 600 in, 600 out, I build my pipes in a way that the flow is a trivial left to right
2. the game suffers for floating point precisions so it's not only fluid dyns

[rotund ingot]

loop?

[unkempt oar]

I might do looping as a last resort but I just hate it it looks so bad

[vapid gorge]

Then don’t do 600 pipes.

The only way to do what you want is to stop fluids from being bidirectional essentially just turning them to belts.

And honestly if that’s what you want go play factorio.

I don’t want a game I love trivialized

[rotund ingot]

does that just have to go back to the start of the machine inputs? or all the way back to the output of the source?

[unkempt oar]

Cobalt, what do you use for perfect ratio 600m^3 byproducts (e.g sloppy alumina to 3:3 setup) ?

[vapid gorge]

Just before the manifold starts, like in the image

[rotund ingot]

huh, maybe that'll fix my powerplant, thanks

[vapid gorge]

I often do 600 pipes but I keep them simple and straight forward

[unkempt oar]

i've tried the VIP for hours but it never worked, the last setup I used was just merging them in a T junction (left = fresh water right = byproduct) with 2 valve and it seems to be the best working

[vapid gorge]

Valves are a coin toss for that

[unkempt oar]

I try to follow this principle too but it rarely is enough

[vapid gorge]

Keep the fluids split. Unbreakable

[vapid gorge]

Feel free to post some overhead shots of what you’re trying and ping me. I usually check the server once a day

At least

[unkempt oar]

I'll sure do, I'm working right now but surely i'll hop on satisfactory tonight 👍

[unkempt oar]

Yeah surely this works perfectly, but it doesn't feel satisfactory 😄

[vapid gorge]

Yeah no stress, if you want sketch a diagram of what you’re planning and I can have a look see.

[vapid gorge]

Well it’s the most reliable option 😛 next after that are VIPs, but I don’t like them.

I’ve gotten direct feeds to work but it’s like balancing spinning plates

[unkempt oar]

Also, it's quite complex because it's a 3 step process : HOR -> Diluted Fuel -> Residual Rubber/Plastics and 2 out of the 3 stages rely on 600m^3 pipes...

[vapid gorge]

Ah you’re doing the recycled plastic loop?

[unkempt oar]

I've built a VIP the exact way the german guy (I sure you know who I mean) did, and it worked perfectly, but for whatever reason it didn't work once I built it in my own save 🤷‍♂️

[unkempt oar]

Yes that's my project right now, this is basically the factory:

[vapid gorge]

So essentially 1200 plastic being made, 600 going to a factory and 600 to be doubled in rubber?

[unkempt oar]

yeah exactly

the fuel pipes usually run at 600m^3, yet some blenders turn yellow because they don't pour fast enough

[vapid gorge]

That’s what this was

[zealous coral]

this is how it is implemented , however pipes are not visible there

[vapid gorge]

Ah. You’re bottom feeding

[unkempt oar]

Well wait a minute, I have an horrendous vision of me placing 32 blenders instead of 48...

I might actually be missing a whole row of blender 🤭

[vapid gorge]

Ok maybe. But bottom feeding 600 pipes is a challenge

[unkempt oar]

Nah I swear that if I'm trashing pipes since 10 hours just because I had too much pride to actually check if the ratios are correct...

[vapid gorge]

Look that’s something to check

But I highly recommend not bottom feeding, especially 600 pipes, unless you’re willing to put the time in for it

[unkempt oar]

But well I just woke up and it's more likely that I put the correct amount of blender, because every refs except the last one runs well, If I did forget 200m^3 in the equation it would not

[unkempt oar]

do you have screenshots showing a close up picture of the pipes?

[vapid gorge]

Maybe on my computer but it’ll be a day before I get home, it’s mostly just the loop example I put up before

I’m deadly serious about feeding the machines from below though

[unkempt oar]

Also my fuel pipes look something like that : |----–__

ah, discord

well I meant : __ | -- | __

[vapid gorge]

I’d need a real picture. Can’t imagine it sorry

[unkempt oar]

😄

[wind spade]

Morse code pipes

[vapid gorge]

I literally have no internal imagery

And those lines could be a lot of things

[unkempt oar]

I just meant the pipes come at floor level, are then raised (2 stacked pipeline support) and finally lowered into the 20 refs manifold

[vapid gorge]

Yeah would have to see it

[unkempt oar]

but it's fine, i'll send screenshots once I get home, it will be easier for everyone

[vapid gorge]

But just to make sure, you realise you might have to bring the feed pipes upwards right?

[unkempt oar]

the manifolds (output and input) are all at ground level, there is a part of the systems that is raised tho. I'm not feeding from above but kinda. Again will be way clearer once I get my hands on some screenshots

[vapid gorge]

I’m just looking at your blenders and the input pipes are coming from the ground

[opal locust]

so this is why endgame power requirements skyrocket

imagine if I slooped this

I slapped a particle accelerator down next to my copper powder facility to make my nuclear pasta.

[civic bronze]

Handfed? 😦

[civic bronze]

Jesus i just got 4 of those, didnt realize it 5k is crazy

[fallow siren]

sloop it and it will reach 20GW

[opal locust]

Considering Nuclear Past is either for Project Assembly, or to make another Project Assembly part, I'd rather hand feed it

that and Ficsonium I guess. the kids would say "lol, lmao"

[civic bronze]

thats like 167 rafineries

[zealous coral]

I'm bottom feeding only blenders and for them i got buffers, refineries are half bellow ground level.

[civic bronze]

ez

[zealous coral]

I think he mean 200GW

[civic bronze]

no? he's right 20GW, i slooped it at 250% there's nothing more to do

but yeah if i were to sloop 5 of them like that that's 1/4 of my power jesus

[fallow siren]

no, PA at its peak consume 20GW, without sloop it reach 5GW at 250%, since PA requires 4 sloop
which means 4 times the power consumption, so its 5GW * 4 = 20GW

simple math

[vapid gorge]

Buffers will only hinder it , but can look at it later

[civic bronze]

okay, this doesn't look like it, but this simple thing took me way too long to figure out lmao

ok found better way after i dismantled it for screenshot, made lifts kiss

[fallow siren]

i supposed this is how you do fluid buffer from unloading station

[wind spade]

Can do, but I like this one 🙂 #design-and-architecture message

[fallow siren]

it does more compact, but i just dont like how it looks

[dreamy nimbus]

I handfed it for phase 4 but made a specific factory for it in phase 5

1k Nuclear Pasta handfed is quite a lot of pressure conversion cube, especially when you don't have a factory for it

tbf Nuclear Pasta isn't that hard of a factory

[tawdry blade]

Little question, what exactly was your goal here?

Working with short lifts myself now, just curious

[fallow siren]

k this is the buffer for loading station

[cerulean stratus]

The only hard part is the pressure cube

[thorn bane]

and tons of power
and tons of copper

[dreamy nimbus]

yeah

[dreamy nimbus]

tons of power isn't such a problem if you have a big power plant

tons of copper just requires copper refineries and water, not hard

in the pressure conversion cube there's the HMF which is a bit annoying and Radio Control Unit which requires both Oil and Alu chain

[opaque quartz]

RCUs can be made without oil using alts

[analog meteor]

so pressure cubes isnt the only hard part? and all of nuclear pasta cooking is the hard part?

[analog meteor]

its a nice challenge tho

[quick gorge]

Time to drink the ocean
Piping is going to be """Fun"""

[modern fractal]

so rocket fuel. ai can use 672 power shards to overclock 224 fuel generators for a total of 236 fuel generators or 576 fuel generators without power shards. decisions, decisions lol. I have about 600 power shards so I need to go find some slugs I think!

[modern fractal]

if you drain the planet, you would have more land for factories!

[tame harbor]

I'd recommend holding off on large scale rocket fuel factories before you can automate the shards

Keep it Diluted fuel until then

[quick gorge]

I think that is how the dune desert was made... that is why it is a desert 💀

[outer vale]

there's over 5k shards available on the map, you can spare 600

[tame harbor]

Think of it like "i can make 625 MW every 3 power shards" (ignoring the actual fuel production ehich changes the math a lot)

[wind spade]

there's also infinite shards so go ham 😛

[modern fractal]

I already have x2 diluted fuel plants and need to upgrade more power so I can finish phase 4. I'd rather use shards then make a temporary 40-50k mw

[modern fractal]

the slugs will respond when 1.1 goes live anyways like all other updates.

[wind spade]

well, those that are modified/moved/whatever

[outer vale]

yeah I wouldn't expect that to happen

[modern fractal]

dang the past changes spoiled me lol. I should be fine. I sloop all my slugs and only have grabbed the ones I see in passing. I have not gone hunting for them yet

[outer vale]

a) it doesn't happen on every update, only ones that change the world, but
b) after the time it happened in 1.0 I believe they put some actual logic in to prevent it

[modern fractal]

that makes sense. now I don't have to try to get all of them, the mercer spheres, and the somersloops before 1.1 at least.

[unkempt oar]

I would also like to at least know why this helps !

Adding loops everywhere seemed to be a miracle fix, here is my final setup if anyone is interested :

I didn't add a loop to the oil input but it still works fine

[fierce ruin]

Gentlemen, I may not have a brain, but I have an idea

[livid turret]

How do you have mirrored refineries? Mod?

[quick gorge]

-# just got Factorio 2.0 running

[fierce ruin]

why is my text red

[quick gorge]

didn't send

[fierce ruin]

oh

ok so you can barely see it, but this works PERFECTLY

i'll leave the heavy frames as a separate factory though

oh my god 3 250% mk3 miners on normal nodes is more than enough for this

this is insane

[unkempt oar]

yes, one of my favorite mods tbh

[outer vale]

Would an Industrial Storage Container work as a way to manifold more than one belt's worth of stuff?
Feed two belts in, have two belts out, not relying on any particular output ordering since it's a manifold

specific scenario is I have like 1500 iron plates coming via trains. Clocking the machines using them into groups would be inconvenient

[amber umbra]

I’d say best practice is to use splitters/mergers instead, but under back pressure an ICU can function as a splitter.

ICUs don’t have balanced output though when not under back pressure. Ala it’s kinda complicated hence the above.

[outer vale]

if it all fit on one belt I'd just manifold it all normally yeah

I know about the inconsistent output on ISCs, but figure on a manifold setup, one of those'll back up so shouldn't be an issue

[amber umbra]

Especially with priority mergers coming soon, I’d just wait for those. (Factorio style splitter waterfalls)

[dusky dust]

Yeah, the biggest problem with ISC-as-splitter is that it'll only ever give you a 50/50 split when you have that backpressure

[amber umbra]

Can also vary output belts technically.

[dusky dust]

Otherwise it'll semi-randomly prefer one output over the other; you'll get the majority of the output from one. (And which one it prefers can change every time you load the game)

[hollow egret]

This isn't a numbers-heavy question, but I'm only now starting to deploy train logistics - I'm nervous about how the efficiency of every train system varies with every world and how there's no easy way to calculate how much throughput loss there will be to traffic jams, etc.
So I'm curious - has anyone here ever tried a two-tiered train system? I was thinking of having sections where there are two floors of tracks, the top tracks being dedicated only to critical resources (anything used to produce power), while the lower floor handles everything else. As the system grows, there'll be far less usage of the top floor, so there'll be fewer bottlenecks

Or alternatively just building completely separate lines that takes more time/resources but has no chance of failing

[dusky dust]

Honestly so long as you're buffering your deliveries and don't run close to your individual car throughput limits, you're unlikely to run into problems with congestion

[amber umbra]

@hollow egret Imo the proper way to do train systems is to have the train/rail connection never be the bottleneck between the input/output belts. So the initial part of your question is no longer true.

[dusky dust]

If a train does get delayed for some reason on one delivery, the next one will just have that much more material in the car, so with buffering on the receiving side you'll then be forever "ahead"

If you let the train do a delivery or two first before turning on processing at the receipt side, you'll basically be ahead forever

[restive sparrow]

Everyone keeps talking prio mergers but I really don't see the use.

[dusky dust]

(Again, that does depend on both the receiving buffer plus not running too close to the car capacity)

Then again, if you do want to run a two-tiered system like you're suggesting, go for it. :D With blueprints it shouldn't be too much more work

[hollow egret]

I didn't mean designing it as a bottleneck - I'm just worried that unexpected congestion or a mistake when expanding the network could delay trains to the point where even a 50%+ overhead is insufficient

[restive sparrow]

Wouldn't it be best practice to make the trains wait to be full before leaving, making this untrue?

[hollow egret]

I guess that makes sense, thanks!

[dusky dust]

I know some folks do that, but I don't personally like doing it. I just keep the trains running at all times

So I suppose that's another assumption I didn't mention with my reasoning. :)

[amber umbra]

@hollow egret The style I'm describing uses "full/empty cargo AND 10,000 s" station condition causing trains to only move when full/empty. You do simple 1 item type per train setups. 1 belt per station with standard 2 belt ICU feeding station. So the train interconnect is faster than the belts feeding the station. But definitely play around with your train setups to really get a feel for them before implementing at scale.

[outer vale]

For some concrete numbers

• I have 800 plates and 539 plates coming in via train
• I need 705 going one way, 504 another, 150 the third
  So say I put the 705 manifold on one of the ISC outputs, and the 504+150 = 654 on the other.
  Initially, plates'll go wherever, doesn't matter. One side will back up, then that side'll just act like a standard manifold, only accepting what it can. Rest of the plates/min will go the other way. Great success.
  If the priorities suddenly shift to favour the other side, that just means now that side'll fill up instead

[restive sparrow]

Since travel time and docking downtime are the most major sources of loss in the transfer efficiency it doesn't make much sense to me to travel when not full.

[amber umbra]

@hollow egret If you do really value having congestion not cause a drop in throughput causing factories to idle you either underprovision your tracks (don't use that many trains) or use setups that are resistent to transient congestion (have more buffering at stations like I described).

@restive sparrow From Factorio, priority mergers are relatively niche. Main uses are "splitter waterfall" style multi belt setups that let you treat several belts like a single belt (often used in main bus setups) and priority selection for input belts like prioritizing coal to power plant. The splitter waterfall thing is main usage I can see myself using.

[dusky dust]

The loss in transfer efficiency is only a problem if you're trying to run close to 2x-max-belt-speed-per-car throughput limits, which is only gonna be the case some of the time

I admit that, yes, if you're really pushing your per-car efficiency that high, then it would make sense to do that

[restive sparrow]

Yeah if your train is way outclassing your feed I guess it doesn't matter.

[dusky dust]

But if you're not it just really doesn't matter

I've literally never had problems with train throughput on any of my saves, and I've always just let 'em run constantly

I like seeing automation zipping around and interacting. Gotta give those path signals a workout! :)

[amber umbra]

The splitter waterfall can be nice if your production line units don't evenly divide into your belt speed. Like 1 production line consuming 0.95 belts. If you really want to consume all the items as much as possible you can splitter waterfall the belts together letting you waste less of the belt throughput.

[restive sparrow]

So it's a belt balancer?

[amber umbra]

No it’s not balancing, it lets you like “overflow” belts into each other in an effective way. Hence waterfall.

[dusky dust]

Anyway, indeed, I must acknowledge that what I said was probably more heavily-caveated than I originally expressed. :D

[vital agate]

what is better several short trains or 1 long train

[outer vale]

better in what regard?

[dusky dust]

As with so many things in this game, "best"/"better" is a nearly impossible question to answer. Personally I always prefer shorter single-purpose trains, though it depends greatly on the exact circumstance

[vital agate]

📝

[outer vale]

also depends if this is for one point to point or a bigger loop setup

if you need to collect from quite a few stations, then it's prooobably better to have shorter trains each doing one or two pickups
But if you're just collecting from one or two, then one longer train is my preference (though does require a long-ass station)

[open solar]

I see you all are talking about trains, hopefully this question will be well received. Anyone know a formula for calculating how many trains i will need to transfer items X distance at X items per minute.
Ill be using fluid trains so im worried they wont be able to transfer enough?

[hollow egret]

Thank you! I am already using very few trains (mostly because the time to set up a train line is very considerable, but this will get better with 1.1), but as I look at making nuclear plants, tier 4 components and fancy fuel types I am realizing that the game is structured to force me into long-distance transport - so generally I set up shop near as many neighboring resources as I can find, and will use trains for everything else. I was just nervous about issues or inexperience shutting down my power grid, and similar. I'll implement the solutions you all have described

[outer vale]

items/min = capacity / round trip time

[open solar]

I was hoping to not have to build the track before working out if it will work haha

Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

[outer vale]

beauty of trains is you can just add more

[open solar]

That is quite fair

[outer vale]

either more carriages+platforms, or a whole second train

[open solar]

How much per minute do you all usually put in a car like 150?

[outer vale]

Depends on the route, but my trains are usually quite long distance so I usually go between 3 and 6 stacks/min

[crimson moat]

1 belt

[delicate yew]

Is it okay if I pipes arent completely full?

i waited for them to fill up completely before turning my refineries on

Then I turned them on and the pipes are no longer full
But I am producing 240 oil and using 240 oil

[dusky dust]

Yeah, they'll generally not be 100% full; you just want to start the system when they are essentially there. Make sure their volume isn't dropping noticeably over time

However much is in there in 10 minutes should be basically what's in there now, now that the system's running

[delicate yew]

1 of them is running at 92% for some reason even though it has far more oil than it needs in its inventory

ok nvm its going up

i think it was because I turned it off by accident

[dusky dust]

Yeah, it can take that number awhile to catch up to reality

[delicate yew]

thanks for the help

[dusky dust]

It's an average over the last n minutes, or maybe cycles (I've never actually tested to find out if it's time or cycles)

[delicate yew]

If I am not utilizing 100% of the fuel I'm making will the refineries back up and stop making plastic and rubber eventually?

ok they already are it seems

did my math wrong didnt use enough fuel gens

or theyre not getting enough oil, idk 😭

[restive sparrow]

Easy enough to tell. If you look in your refinery and its output is full of fuel and its input is full of oil it is choking because it can't output. This would be due to either not enough generators burning or perhaps because of piping layout issues. If your generators are burning 24/7 with no downtime then your issue is that you need more generators (though this would be easier to confirm for sure with math, simply adding up how much you're making vs burning).

If you're short on oil the refineries will look quite the opposite. They will be empty on oil and likely empty on fuel.

There is the third option that your solids output (polymer most likely?) is jammed up. If it has nowhere to go the refinery will also shut down. This will show up as refinery being full on oil, empty on fuel, and full on the solid output. I guess more generally speaking being full on the input and full on one of the outputs is a good indicator that the full output is jammed up.

[delicate yew]

I had too many refineries making fuel from my heavy oil residue

I stopped everything and let it all reset then started it up again and it looks like everything is fine now

[restive sparrow]

It may just take a while to destabilize. Keep an eye on it. Do the math on how much you're making and how much you're burning.

[delicate yew]

i redid all my math and the only thing that was off was the refineries turning heavy oil residue into fuel

so i took two away let the pipes fill up and restarted the system and it looks good now

it destabalized quickly last time

but still keeping an eye on it

[restive sparrow]

If taking away two makes the inputs and outputs even you're probably ok now.

[tardy stream]

Solid Steel Ingot alt recipe, I assume its better than regular steel recipe but takes iron smelters, so less space efficient?

[crimson moat]

yeah

[wind spade]

Depends wdym by "better", it is more iron efficient indeed, at the cost of more complexity

[tardy stream]

yeah I did mention that kinda

[civic bronze]

sorry i went to sleep, i think red line on first pic explains - but its batteries from one droneport's output into another droneport's fuel input - and split further for other droneports

[delicate yew]

What is a good number of Steel Beams to be making a minute?

[wind spade]

well that depends on what is the use you're making them for

most of the time it's better to estimate the usage of them and build that many (you can always add more if you find yourself running out)

[delicate yew]

It would be excess steel beams for DD

[wind spade]

yeah so check which buildables need steel beams and estimate how many you'll build per minute/hour

or just start with small amount and build another factory if you keep running out

[delicate yew]

Available Resources In Area
Coal - 600/m (limited to 480 because T4 belt)
Limestone - 600/m
Iron Ore - 900/m

Planned Outputs
Versatile Framework - 10/m
Steel Beam - 30/m
Reinforced Iron Plate - 30/m
Concrete - 40/m

This is the current plan

I also have 300/m copper near by but unsure if i will use it

[wind spade]

the biggest misconception I see here is that people see a node and go either "ok I need to use this" or "I need to use this fully"

you don't need to do either. World is big and full of nodes. It's completely fine to leave a node untapped. It's completely fine to use only 30% of a node, underclock the miner and leave the remaining 70% to be tapped later (or never). It doesn't matter, there's enough resources in the world for 99% of players to never run out of them.

(end of rant, sorry)

[delicate yew]

dont be sorry, I'm just trying to maximize what I have around me lol

I think I'm gonna stick with what I have above cuz otherwise the factory is gonna get way too complicated to make lol

[wind spade]

yeah that's the point of my message
don't maximise things around you, make what you need at a place that has those resources 🙂

[restive sparrow]

Oh man I'm at a struggle here. Trying to start aluminum production. Pure aluminum ingots gets a lot less ingot per scrap than the OG recipe, but there isn't any quartz anywhere near any bauxite. I think I have to finally make a damn train/rail system 😦

[delicate yew]

ADA would be so mad if she knew I wasn't maximizing the exploitation of the planets resources xD

[dusky dust]

Honestly Pure Aluminum is a very common choice even though it's less bauxite-efficient

Keep in mind that you're not bound to whatever recipe chain you use on your first aluminum plant

I used like 4 different chains across various plants in my 1.0 save

Can do Pure now, and then use the vanilla later when you are near some Quartz. You're almost certainly gonna need more aluminum than what you're making right now, so it's an option for the future. :)

[restive sparrow]

I'm working on the west coast where there is a batch of 3 bauxite nodes in like a 1000m radius or so and they are all hiiiiiigh up on a mountain.

I think I'm gonna have to drag them down to get access to water anyways....maybe I just drag 'em a big farther north to that lil lake and bring the quartz down from that mine...

Have no idea how I'd get a train to help here anyways I guess....so high up and the nodes are a little far apart.

Looking at maybe bringing all of this together near some water.
I'm particularly stumped on how to handle the bauxite. I think with it being so high up and awkwardly spaced I would be best belting it together and conveyer lifting it down.

These are some awkward distances. Feels far enough belting seems silly, but close enough and shitty enough terrain that trains also seem silly.

Any thoughts?

[pastel obsidian]

There is plenty of water in the area

For trains you can make a spiral or a ramp I like to do on the west side

[civic bronze]

i feel this, the longer i play the more i tend to do this
its like satisfactory teaches you its okay for things to be imperfect, which is not what you expect at first - opposite in fact - coming into a factory building game, and that's intresting

[wind spade]

another way to look into it is to assume the whole world is one big node (or one node per type)

so if you tap 240 from that "world" node, it doesn't matter if it's from three real nodes, or one, or six underclocked, you still tapped 240 out of X limit of the world.

[restive sparrow]

Would you belt the 3 bauxites together and have a single station to deliver them all elsewhere or is it valid to have a train stop at just one node of ore?

I haven't build any damn rails yet at all and now I'm struggling like a mofo in the blueprint machine. I just made a 5 foundation straightaway. Now I need to make curves and ramps and a million other things that feel like they're gonna be high effort.

Like is it even going to be possible to make curved, ramped, or curved and ramped versions of something like this?

I hate the idea of just using someone else's work but I'm getting real close to just nabbing someone's track BPs. I should not have to spend an hour making one damn blueprint, especially if that's just the "left" version of ONE particular degree of turning.

[opaque quartz]

rather than trying to blueprint all the permutations of rails, it's much easier to just make simple pylons and then connect the rails in between them directly (either manually or with 1.1 experimental auto-connect)

but that obviously wouldn't have any of the decorations or extra stuff you are trying to bake into your blueprint there

[restive sparrow]

How would you place the pylons floating to doing shit like making a big ole ramp or spiral?

I guess just throw down a bunch of pillars or foundations

[opaque quartz]

zoop a line of foundations to get the skeleton of the network laid out, place pylons on top of foundations, and then remove the foundations when done

I built most of my network using this painted rail technique (more or less), but I think this will be less relevant with 1.1 - https://youtu.be/dEaB0cbiotY

[restive sparrow]

I am still playing stable

[opaque quartz]

basically I would just use the painted beams to get my spline, put down a foundation at the end, and then slap down my pylon blueprint there and then connect the rails in between. this did require infininite nudge mod in order to be able to do vertical nudging

just using a line of foundations at a lower elevation and putting your pylon blueprint on top of that is probably the "easiest" option

[restive sparrow]

30 seconds into that video already and I'm thinking "awesome!"
Thank you

Think the pylon method is better than the beam?

You putting rails on your pylon BP?

[opaque quartz]

I like the beam method, feel like it's a bit more flexible. but i was only able to make it work for me by also making use of infinite nudge

you can't vertically nudge in vanilla 1.0 (but you can in 1.1)

I even managed to run a rail line completely through the quartz/sam cave in rocky desert

[restive sparrow]

You wouldn't happen to have a pic of your pylon would you?

I'm guessing this is something without rails on it, cause otherwise ramps and curves would get lumpy straight bits

[opaque quartz]

no, it does have short rail segments on it

1 sec

[restive sparrow]

I'm picturing like a 1 foundation long version of the pic I posted above

[opaque quartz]

really basic. when I need to do ramped verisons for inclines I just manually changed them rather than making a ramp blueprint (which ended up being more work in the end)

[restive sparrow]

Looks like 10m is the shortest track they'll let me make

[opaque quartz]

after I got them all placed, I went back and built the supports underneath to connect them to the ground

[restive sparrow]

That's sensible

I guess you just throw out the expectation of making continuous curves and/or ramps

[amber edge]

should be 12m 1 and half foundation

[opaque quartz]

this is what it looks like in practice. the rails are free-floating between the pylons

[restive sparrow]

That one in the middle looks like it's ramping up, is that my imagination?

[opaque quartz]

it is. i placed 1 or 2m ramps on the existing pylon and then re-did the short rail segments

[amber edge]

i laid out foundation, i use 8 tiles apart for any curves that will have neat turns

[restive sparrow]

Oh smart

[amber edge]

works for ramp as well when turning by 4 tiles each and put rail pylons on each 8 tiles

[opal locust]

Is there a good video guide on Nuclear Power? I'm merely curious about it.

[pastel obsidian]

I would do this having it all at one place makes it a little easier to process and has all the production in one place

[tawdry blade]

So you stay fairly close to the ground, do you have any smart solution for more... floaty builds?

i would love to just build a track and add the pillars afterwards instead of the reverse

[opaque quartz]

Well, there is a limit to how long a single rail segment can be (it’s like 90m or something?) so the pylons function as the way to connect the long segments

You could make a simpler blueprint with just the foundations and rail segments, build your floaty rail, and then remove the foundations after

or make the pylons taller. it's really up to you

[restive sparrow]

I was mainly asking if you think I should have 3 train stations (one for each bauxite) or belt them to a central location to train away to the bottom near the water/quartz.

If I'm using separate train stations for the 3 bauxite nodes I'm assuming I should have one long train with separate carts for each node?

There are 5-600m gaps between them. I think it makes sense to belt together before training down

[vapid gorge]

Should be 12m

[restive sparrow]

What's a quick way to determine how many train cars I will need to carry X number of parts/minute?

Should I build the rail system and measure the round trip time first?

[tawdry blade]

That would help yes. Consider stacksize and time for re-filling the cargo station

[vapid gorge]

And there equations on the wiki

You can do rough estimates though. With mk5 belts less than 5 min you can usually do 1 belt per platform

[restive sparrow]

You meaning to say with mk5 or lower, or only lower?

[wind spade]

usually I don't bother and just do one belt per platform

[restive sparrow]

Presumably 1 belt into an ISC

[vapid gorge]

It does get a bit trickier with mk6 belts because they fill up a train car very quickly

[vapid gorge]

And then 2 to the platform

[restive sparrow]

This is my first go into trains to start my first aluminum plant so even though I have mk5 belts it'll probably be starting at mk4. I'm trying to plan for mk6 in the future though. I'm guessing I can just add more freight bays and cars?

Much love, guys.

I've been procrastinating on this for so SO long

[vapid gorge]

But if you’re wanting to expand existing lines later instead of creating entirely new systems you’ll want to leave a lot of extra space for the stations

[restive sparrow]

Aye, space extending back from the station

[vapid gorge]

Personally I just leave everything as is until I unlock everything and then I rip up all my old stuff and create dedicated systems

[restive sparrow]

OMG dude I haven't seen this in days. Guess what popped up as I'm configuring my first station....

That mysterious case where almost half of my generator plant shuts down for a moment all at once in a ramp lol

so insane. I have 50 energy backups so it's not a concern just...wtf...

[vapid gorge]

If it was a flow issue it really shouldn’t stabilize after like that

[restive sparrow]

You think it's a supply hiccup?

[vapid gorge]

Seems very unlikely

An unsteady fluid manifold will just be unsteady

And if somehow you had a micro instability that took hours or days it’d still stay unstable

There was a person the other day complaining about all the lights on a grid flickering constantly.

Maybe you got a weird corruption in your save and it’s doing something similar?

They had to reload a save from a few hours before hand to fix it

[restive sparrow]

Awww hell did I make my pylon blueprint tracks too close together?

[restive sparrow]

Weird.

[vapid gorge]

Show the pylon ahead too?

[vapid gorge]

Put a pylon down on the angled bit

And connect that then the next part

It’ll give you more control

[restive sparrow]

Huh...weird. It's making them without the signals now. That's what it was complaining about...the signals being too close.

Why was it making them with signals one time and not now?

[vapid gorge]

Oh ignore those signals

They are just for manual driving

[restive sparrow]

That's what the error was saying, signals too close together

[opaque quartz]

you have a bugged connection here. that inside rail has a switcher there when it shouldn't. remove and replace that curved section

[restive sparrow]

Weird. We're good now

[vapid gorge]

On turns like that is often good to have more anchor points, often pylons, to keep it tidy

[pastel obsidian]

Belt it if you want later you can rail it if you think it looks nicer

[opal locust]

Math question, my Aluminum factory is producing 300 casings/minute, I have 3 factories setup to grab them via drones totalling 260/minute(100+100+60), will that 40/minute surplus eventually stock up my storage again?

[tawdry blade]

Where else could it go

[opal locust]

because I see that 2000+ out per minute and that's way more than the 300/minute I'm producing

I guess it just needs a bit to stock back up again since I setup storage containers at each factory to hold extra casings

[tawdry blade]

If your factory is designed to support a certain production, buffers have no purpose. If anything, buffer your dimensional depot, nothing else.

Other use-case for buffers:
Saving stuff for later stages, or circumventing starving belts feeding cargo stations / feeding your factory from cargo stations.

Beyond that, nothing.

[shell dune]

My first factory I had everything go into storage immediately after production, it worked great

[tawdry blade]

Superfluos stuff works, its just superfluous.

In his case, it delays something he wants.

The restock of his dimensional depot.

[opal locust]

It's not like I need casings for much building

[tawdry blade]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[restive sparrow]

It's bumpy and wiggly as hell but I think it's functional!

Hmmmm except for the small fact that I didn't set my dropoff stations to unload ><

[tawdry blade]

Ever heard of painted beams

Pull out, attach somewhere, go freestyle mode, point, click, attach rail, smooth.

[restive sparrow]

The freestyle beam aiming for rails sounds good but the one part of that I'm not aware of is how you could do that for a double rail and keep the spacing right

What's a complete mystery to me at this point is how this would tie into a bigger network, or even just my next step which will have to be a train that brings quartz to this same dropoff location.

[tawdry blade]

i guess by pointing to the correct spot, but I catch your drift

[restive sparrow]

I could make a completely seperate loop for the quartz but I'd think having a unified network would make more sense in the long run

[tawdry blade]

You can also have foundations / attachmentpoints inbetween to ensure spacing

So the first rail is build freely but the second is strctly bound to the first

Finnicky to get right tho

[restive sparrow]

You can snap rails to the side of other rails?

[tawdry blade]

nope

But to concrete pillers

and those can be attached pretty much on everything building related

[restive sparrow]

So you'd build the first with beams, then attach a bunch of pillars or whatever to the edges of that first rail to then lead the 2nd rail?

[tawdry blade]

here a tutorial from someone who has more skill than me
https://youtu.be/dEaB0cbiotY

Might give you some ideas.

[restive sparrow]

I watched the first half of that showing how to use the beams, but I didn't notice a part chatting about dual rail spacing

[tawdry blade]

you can attach perfectly horizontal beams to the sides or spam a bunch of pillers next to each other to get snapping points

but yeah, its a bit harder

Go to minute 22 btw

[restive sparrow]

Thanks mate I'll check it

Just building my first shitty railway right before bed...urge to call out sick is intensifying

[opaque quartz]

this is why my pylon blueprint I shared earlier has the two rails spacing baked in. i use the beams to place the pylons and then connect the rails afterwards. the spacing in the pylons ensures that they stay the same distance apart

[pastel obsidian]

I think you made the yellow brick road

Can we paint rails

[opaque quartz]

no but you could paint foundations underneath

use the caterium finish to make a gold road

[opal locust]

And there's my 2 Turbo Motor/Minute factory, and I have automated the last necessary bit to finish Phase 4

I may have an unhealthy addiction to Drones

[vapid gorge]

they are convenient

[opal locust]

And now I wait I suppose

[opal locust]

The state of my world after automating all the parts needed to finish Phase 4

[civic bronze]

I have 14 ports in my phase 5 factory so far, and im still working on it

[opal locust]

So I ran into an issue with my Nitrogen port

[civic bronze]

Would post a pic but dont wanna spoiler

[opal locust]

1 drone was taking all of the packaged Nitrogen and starving the other port that needed it

so I'm flooding the network with empty tanks to try and balance it out.

eventually the greedy port will be so full it won't need to grab tanks every 5 seconds

[civic bronze]

If numbers are right it should balance itself with time just like manifold

[frosty owl]

That's a chance for some priority merging ^^

[opal locust]

well my cooling system factory wasn't producing anything because the fused modular frame factory was taking all the packaged nitrogen

[proven pawn]

aluminum is so annoying
how do u get the conveyers from the bauxite ontop of the rock near the oil and down to the ground

[vapid gorge]

belt lifts?

[opal locust]

I simply used a really long lift

[frosty owl]

Some build factories on top of the plateaus over there. Some use lifts. Some use trains. Some build roads...

[vapid gorge]

or bring coal/oil to it and process it there

[proven pawn]

doesent look too aesthetic imo and i hate that i hate it

hm

[vapid gorge]

yeah all my frist bauxite systems are in the red forest

[opal locust]

nonsense, I think concrete lift towers with some windows are quite beautiful

[vapid gorge]

there's a few spots with coal and bauxite right next to each other

[frosty owl]

Today we shall discover the subjectivness of beauty!

[opal locust]

You have 2 choices with Aluminum, bring the bauxite/coal to the water, or bring the water to the bauxite/coal

[proven pawn]

can yall show me ur first alum factory :DDDD

[opal locust]

and since transporting liquids suck, I prefer the former

[vapid gorge]

@proven pawn almost all bauxite is next to coal/oil and water , you have lots of choices

[proven pawn]

oh where is that

OHHH

[vapid gorge]

all of the red forest. Where 80% of the bauxite is

[proven pawn]

i got my bauxite here :(

[vapid gorge]

that's the top left one in my image

probably the most isolated one

[proven pawn]

i should tear it down then

cuz i really hatemyself for building such a low effort alum factory

[vapid gorge]

there's also a simple spot in the east swamp for bauxite

that one node though + maybe the jungle nodes near the centre are the least close to it's other components

[proven pawn]

ooooof damn
my alum recipe uses copper for some reason

[vapid gorge]

sheets? yeah just ship the ingots somewhere for future processing

or go to the east swamp where there's also copper nearby

[frosty owl]

I just realized I don't have any such #screenshots aviable... What sadness

[proven pawn]

wheres east swamp at.. soz

[vapid gorge]

far east and centre of map

full of spiders

[proven pawn]

damn thats a treacherous journey

went there for hardrives and the alpha spiders got me a heart attack

[vapid gorge]

build some powered buildings and they'll stop spawning

[proven pawn]

they jump like 50m into the air wtf

[frosty owl]

Follow the spiders to find the location, Harry!

[vapid gorge]

on a completely different note, I hope the actors in the new potter tv series come out for trans rights just to spite her

[proven pawn]

i thought normal spiders were bad ednough

[frosty owl]

They are very proactive huggers.
Very proactive...

[vapid gorge]

I will die of Schadenfreude if that happens

[proven pawn]

i am NOT going to the east swamp oml thts not happening

i could probably do a trainline from the copper and into the alum factory

[vapid gorge]

its fine, just have a lot of guns and a jet pack

or even a hover back you use from some built power poles

prob easier

[civic bronze]

anyone got a bug where pipe displays 0 flowrate when clearly having flowrate?

[vapid gorge]

nah, only pipe scrubs get that bug 😛

honestly though I've never heard of that bug

[opal locust]

I process my ingots at the waterfall next to the western islands, and then train the ingots to the western copper nodes in the rocky desert to be made into sheets and casings, I had enough ingots leftover that I used the remainder to craft empty fluid tanks

[proven pawn]

thats

pretty neat

[opal locust]

it's also the only train line I have because I got addicted to drones

[proven pawn]

damn really

[vapid gorge]

moving the ingots is pretty normal

[opal locust]

I am not ashamed of my concrete towers to get the bauxite to ground level

[civic bronze]

like it works but pipe shows 0 lol

[vapid gorge]

weird 🙂

[remote flame]

What recipes would you like to use in your Aluminium factory? That can determine location quite a bit! Otherwise I could probably help point some locations or make your current one work!

This is the main Blueprint Module I use in all my Aluminium production now 🙂 150 Aluminum Ingots/Min using Sloppy Alumina, Pure Alumina Ingot, Petroleum Coke, Electrode Alumina Scrap

Extremely compact, clean, I loved how it came up! (and it keeps the recycled water loop seperate from the main water in)
(was built before the latest update so vertical splitters could reallyyy help this thing out more too haha)

[opal locust]

there, a little bit of flair goes a long way for aesthetics

[fallow siren]

still better than mine at least

[opal locust]

Concrete towers are not a mark of shame, they represent efficiency

Ficsit never said anything about factories looking good

[civic bronze]

At this distance i have rubber from islands to up there, i just used a drone lol

[oblique hollow]

is that pipe per chance part of a looped network

[modern fractal]

I have a blender making fuel at 100/minute but only running at 60% efficiency. it's feeding x5 fuel generators that are each using fuel at 20/minute. all running at 100%.

it's been running like that for over 100 hours without any changes. it's also not just one blender, but 56 blenders doing this. how are the blenders nor going above 60% efficency yet still feeding all the fuel generators.

all pies are still full. my only complaint is it's hurting my poly resin output.

[vapid gorge]

you'd have to show us overhead images of your set up

[modern fractal]

I can get pictures later bit it's just a straight line of pipe leaving the blender with x5 fuel generators in a line afterwards. each connected with a single pipe. I even removed the loop to try to break it

no evaluation, no buffers, no valves

[wind spade]

loop the manifold

[vapid gorge]

like so

though I'm a little surprised such a short and low flow manifold is getting backed up

[modern fractal]

but the manifold had a loop and the same issue. the fuel is still using 100/m the blender is still at 60% efficency and it's NOT running dry or increasing the blender efficency

[vapid gorge]

would have to see the layout sorry

[modern fractal]

how am I consuming more fuel than being made

[vapid gorge]

if you're blender is stuttering you're not

your generators should be starving

[modern fractal]

they are not starving and my power has been stable like this for over 100 hours.

I'll get video when I get home today

[vapid gorge]

if your generators are not starving but your blender is turning on and off you're making too much fuel

[outer vale]

maybe some aren't connected, or maybe it's a clocking thing

or, off the wall... are you on 1.0? because older fuel gens, incidentally, used 60% as much fuel as they do now

[modern fractal]

I'm only making 100 and using a hundred and the blender is not even making the 100. the fuel generators errors were pre 1.0, but I redid tje blenders in 1.0. could the fuel generators think they are still update 8?

[vapid gorge]

not if you updated to 1.0

[outer vale]

would be very odd, but maybe worth a look...

[vapid gorge]

check them when you get home to see how much they are using pm

[modern fractal]

when I hover over, it says 20/m I checked every single one of all 280 of them. it's like they are actually using update 8 fuel consumption but visually showing 1.0 consumption. there use to be another 3 in each line for a total of 8, and it was still running fine in 1.0 for about 45-50 hours. even though it wanted to use 160 fuel per minute when I was only producing 100/m

I will take pictures when I get ho.e amd see if I still have a older 1.0 save when there were still 8 fuel generators hooked up to each blender

[modern fractal]

I found on Facebook where someone had the same issue. they had to turn each one off and on agai. because it was taking 5 seconds to burn instead of 3. theirs were also an old update 8 set up.

I'll time it when I get home and see if that's the issue. and record it. then turn them all off and on again lol

[vapid gorge]

I think most people started a fresh save for 1.0 to unlock all the story stuff properly

so prob not many people have run into that

[modern fractal]

I imported my update 8 world into 1.0, and dismantled everything into a crate except for oil refinery power towers because I didn't want to rebuild them completely when the only change they needed was to have 3 fuel generators deleted from each blenders output. for a total of removing 168.

[amber edge]

good recipe? is it worth it for nitrogen

[unkempt crater]

i hate how many things I have to run for late game stuff xD need like 5 inputs for everything from 1 new node xD

[prime forum]

This should be fun

and extremely psychologically deteriorating

[dusky dust]

Split it apart; have one factory per part instead of trying to mash them together

Even if you end up building everything on the same site, keeping things logically separated is one way to combat complexity

[wind spade]

depends what yo call "good" 🙂

[rigid pewter]

what is the best way to recycle fluid byproduct in the circuit ?

[dusky dust]

As with so many things in the game: "best" is subjective. :)

What I do is loop the byproduct to a separate bank of machines which are run entirely off the byproduct

[outer vale]

though if you mean between "mixing with the fresh water" vs "keeping it separate", the latter generally

[dusky dust]

So I've got one set of machines taking in "fresh," and another set of machines taking in "recycled"

[rigid pewter]

i have 1866.66 darkmatter input and i get 933.33 as byproduct i want to recyle it back to the circuit

[dusky dust]

So yeah, I'd have machines set to specifically use 933.33 of that byproduct, and keep the "fresh" stuff separate

[amber edge]

best extraction from two 780 raw quartz belts into silica and quartz crystal

[dusky dust]

Underclock as needed to make sure the numbers match up, etc

[wind spade]

how much do you need of each? make that much

[amber edge]

well i just wanted to extract the most, i would need silica more for aluminum factory, im doing sloppy alumina, electorode aluminum scrap then aluminum ingot

[wind spade]

don't "make what you can"

make what you need

if you don't yet know how much you will need, don't make it yet

[amber edge]

well its fun for me i like produce factories extracting the most from nodes

then i can just sink overfill while use what i need, more toward coupon and easier for me to expand in future

[wind spade]

to be honest, I think it's actually harder that way, but whatever floats your boat

[amber edge]

for example i made this 2400 pm steel plant from early phase 3 and its still feeding all my steel needs until now, im about to finish phase 4 maybe today

[rigid pewter]

@dusky dust umm you mean that i use other machines just on pybroduct ?

[dusky dust]

Yep, exactly

[rigid pewter]

i will need 3.7k sam to make the dark matter needed i want to loop the darkmatter back into the system

[dusky dust]

Like for instance this is a small vanilla-recipe Aluminum loop, but the right two refineries are getting fresh water, wheras the one on the left is just using "recycled." Use underclocking to make sure that all the numbers match

[modern fractal]

@vapid gorge The fuel generators from update 8 are still taking 5 seconds to burn instead of 3. Turning it off and on again fixed it. I am goign to eat and then take video. I dont know if I can share it here though.

[rigid pewter]

i kinda get thanks so much

[vapid gorge]

seems like an easy fix at least 🙂

and I believe you xD

[prime forum]

k thanks 🙂

[tame harbor]

I wonder if flushing the whole system would also fix it?

[modern fractal]

maybe if it chokes and stops the machines, but I would still turn it all off to let it refil. I will try flushes at tje second oil processing plant. the first one I turned it all off and on and it seems to be working fine.

[tame harbor]

Yeah so just cut off the input to the fuel generators, flush the pipe, wait a minute, reconnect and see if it works

[modern fractal]

that stopped the machines, and hooking the pipe back up caused it to back up and lower it's efficiency slowly from 100%-60% while the 5 fuel generators sputtered for the first few minutes before going fully stable. they still consume every 5 seconds instead of the displayed 3.

[tame harbor]

Hmmm

[restive sparrow]

SFTools is pushing me towards using the base recipe for aluminum ingots, even though I have pure (presumably because of higher ingot/scrap ratio). I was planning on building this way but just had a passing thought...are there compelling future use reasons to avoid using quartz on aluminum? Perhaps it's unideal of me to be calculating making aluminum parts completely in isolation.

[wind spade]

any reason you can think of is valid

but generally, you won't run out of resources on the map, unless you do it on purpose

[storm bronze]

Where can i post a question about my train stations?

[civic bronze]

Sorry was sleeping
Yeah #math-and-meta message

[civic bronze]

In #1038092680493801533

[oblique hollow]

thats normal for loops

one pipe doesnt show flow

But it still pipes

[civic bronze]

Oh what? Guess i never checked on pipes when it worked

@vapid gorge said he never saw it as well, and i know he's looping all the time

[modern fractal]

either turning them off and on again, or removing its power cable and replacing it changed them from 5 second burns to 3 second burns.

everything is back to 100% now, and I am making rubber again

all i cna think of is when i imported my update 8 savie into a 1.0 save that it never turned on the machines in 1.0 and though they were still update 8.

[white bloom]

If it brings you enjoyment, it's worth it. If you want to optimize your production, it depends on the goal, but most likely no, it's not quite worth it. You're better off producing your target quotas with Cheap Silica and Pure Quartz Crystal. Nitrogen and Nitric Acid have very high utility since 1.0. You will be very hard pressed to find use cases where saving 6.86 Raw Quartz justifies expending 2 Nitric Acid.

[thorn bane]

wait what?
im getting pure alu ingots and electrode scrap
maybe youre capped by bauxite and it cant possibly make enough alu without subsidizing with quartz?

[thorn bane]

absolutely goated my favorite recipe by far

[white bloom]

eh... #math-and-meta message

the pink liquid looks nice I guess

[thorn bane]

its also cuts down a lot on buildings

[restive sparrow]

This was the outcome when I selected all recipes, put a cap on bauxite (chosen by available nodes in an area) then asked for "maximize" on alclad plates and cases (casings? box thingies?).

[thorn bane]

ye it has to be that its capped by bauxite and cant make enough with pure

[restive sparrow]

This seems like a symptom of limiting bauxite supply in the tool, but not limiting quartz, though it seems odd cause I feel like even not limiting bauxite should have the same result if you select "maximize" because simply put you can get more aluminum per Al scrap if you add quartz.

Did you not select maximize?

[thorn bane]

maximize just means make as most as you can, even if it uses 100% of the resources

[restive sparrow]

Yes...yes it does.

[thorn bane]

no i did normal optimization

i mean yeah obvisouly default gives you more bauxite for your buck
its just not worth the quartz imo

[restive sparrow]

My goal was to get as many aluminum parts as I could out of a particular vicinity.

I think the fundamental issue was calculating to maximize a couple of parts without any consideration for the larger system.

I bet if I throw in requirement for a couple of parts that use quartz it would change its mind.

[white bloom]

the default aluminum ingot recipe is more aluminum scrap efficient than pure aluminum ingot. So of course, when you put it in a scenario where bauxite (i.e. aluminum scrap) is the sole bottleneck, maximization is achieved by selecting that recipe. works as intended, with what justification should it do anything else?

[thorn bane]

oooh i remember #math-and-meta message
but ye i use it because of the low buildings not because of ther resources
also i just like that its a loop xD

[restive sparrow]

I never said it should do anything else. Read my actual line of questioning.

It's also -not- because I limited the bauxite. It's because I asked to maximize the aluminum output. The same would occur if I limited quartz the same amount as I limited bauxite, but that decision would obviously change if I limited quartz by a ton.

[white bloom]

yup, it's gonna eat up all the quartz you give it and make the rest with pure

[restive sparrow]

I'm not using quartz a ton quite yet, do you find yourself feeling like quartz is a precious resource? There are things I haven't made yet that I will need to be making.

[thorn bane]

absolutely
for crystal computers
silicon circuit board
silicon high speed connectors

[amber edge]

I have around 5k nitrogen gas in my system, 2k being used up, my recipe calls for 500 i think its not too bad i can always build more extractors and add into system, i have almost map wide rails

theres few quartz nodes so I want to extract the most as can

I plan to use pink diamond recipe when I enter phase 5, since Im using coke coal for aluminum theres bunch coals sitting around in upper area ill use those for it

[thorn bane]

oil diamond has been my favorite by far
but i always had an empty oil field on the map where i could make diamonds

[amber edge]

it seems eats up lot of oil

[civic bronze]

After unlocking phase 5 and looking at alts i picked this one as well

[amber edge]

could make much more coke coal to help aluminum with usage of silica and quartz crystal between diamond and aluminum

[opaque quartz]

back on my bullshit

[delicate yew]

I'm not understanding why my refineries arent performing at 100%
I have 8 refineries making plastic (30 oil/m * 8 = 240 oil/m) I have it connected to a Pure Oil node that pumps 240 at base

I have the same setup for rubber

[modern fractal]

the thrid on the right looks like its not connected

[delicate yew]

That is correct because it's not being used for anything rn

Each pipeline produces 240/m
And the two Lines of 8 Refineries take in 240/m so I'm not sure why they aren't getting enough oil

[modern fractal]

have you tried pumping the water above the height you need it and then having it feed down into the other refineries.

also loop it

[delicate yew]

I have not, I'm using more pumps than needed

before I started the machines I made sure all the pipes were 100% full

[modern fractal]

I always feed mine higher and then bring it down. this and making the end a ring helped fix most of my fluid issues

[delicate yew]

Could the buffers be the issue? because all the pipes before it are 100% full

[modern fractal]

You do have the end connection feeding the oil into the refineries looped back into itself to make both ends get equal distribitions right

buffers can sometimes cause issues. I try not to use them unless I have to.

[delicate yew]

no its just a single line, figured it wouldnt be issue since its supposed to be 240 out and 240 in

[modern fractal]

Ive had systems work from just removing buffers and even some vales when I place to manny

Try looping it and seeing if that helps. It really helps distribute the liquids better

[delicate yew]

something like this?

[modern fractal]

Yes, on top, or behind it. I like to do behind it to keep it flat and level. It still works on top and flush

thats how I loop mine

[shrewd marlin]

been out of school far too long for this. What is the formula for how much plastic and rubber you can make using the dilutaed fuel reciepe and the recycled rubber/plastic for how much oil you have

[delicate yew]

removed the buffers and looped it, just started it all back up

I assume the flow rate flucuating so much at the oil extracter is because its empty and than not empty and so forth, but I would assume it avgs out to 240?

Is it okay if my pipes were full before starting the system and they emptied out a bit?

[shrewd marlin]

ai cant figure out why i dont want to convert fuel to crude oil

[dusky dust]

Be sure to add "Residual Rubber" to your recipe list too (though at least that one's vanilla). :) It's 3x the oil, split up however you like between plastic/rubber. (And technically fuel too, though if you go too far with fuel you'll start dipping below 3x)

[shrewd marlin]

ty, not sure why i didnt think of it that way before

[delicate yew]

I cannot figure out why my refineries arent getting enough oil

Is my pipeline too long?

I'm not sure what to do

[amber edge]

is your headlift ok?

[delicate yew]

the heavy oil residue and fuel pipes are staying 100% full

[amber edge]

and make sure your pumps is overclocked or getting enough input

so its not going into refineries?

[delicate yew]

How do you overclock pumps?

[amber edge]

i mean oil extractors my bad

[delicate yew]

I have two sets of 240 oil pipes going into two sets of 8 refineries so it should be perfect in regard to output intake
but when I start up the refineries the pipes empty out fairly quickly

[amber edge]

means not enough input

[delicate yew]

yeah but idk why

[amber edge]

try flooding the pipes first, turn off every machine until pipes get full then turn them all on, if still empies out fast, it means ur not inputting enough oil, check ur oil extractors to make sure you get enough oil going in

[delicate yew]

ive done all that

[thorn bane]

sounds like headlift issue to me

[amber edge]

if he could fill pipe in first place it doesnt sound headlift

it sounds like not enough input

[shrewd marlin]

if it right on the edge of the headlift limit the machines dont seem to fill as fast

[amber edge]

yeah, try putting pump before the loop into refinery and see what happens

[delicate yew]

These buffers are gone now, but they filled up 100% without any pumps, then I added pumps afterwards to get the oil into my refineries

[shrewd marlin]

i would stick and extra pump and see what happens

[amber edge]

dont use buffers

that def means not enough input

[delicate yew]

but idk how its not enough

[amber edge]

ur eating oil more than supplying it

check ur refineries

i cant really tell you more without showing me screenshots and ur math

[delicate yew]

30 oil/m * 8 - 240 oil/m
pure node outputs 240 oil/m

[amber edge]

single pipeline from oil extractor to 8 refineries? as simple as can?

do it manifold style, you dont even need to loop it or buffer it

make sure you have headlift

[shrewd marlin]

judging by your screenshots it looks like it should be fine, plastic or rubber isnt backing things up?

[amber edge]

his oil get eats up faster than being supplied in

[delicate yew]

tried that first and recently added in loop

same issues

[amber edge]

dont do loop, dont do buffer, just as straight as can

[delicate yew]

loop and buffers are gone

buffers have been gone, loops just now removed

[amber edge]

space out your pumps

follow the indicator it will show blue indicator on headlifts, they dont stack up

[thorn bane]

check all pumps for the headlift indicater

[delicate yew]

pump to first floor

pipe before it is 100% full

[amber edge]

ur only bringing in 150 a min, check ur oil extractor

i think u used normal node not pure

[thorn bane]

9.8/20 so its fine
check the one before that

[delicate yew]

there isnt one before that

[thorn bane]

hmmm
add a pump directly after the extractor and check headlift

[amber edge]

post screenshot of ur extractor screen as well please

[delicate yew]

im working my way there rn

[amber edge]

you know about hyper tube cannon, you can just launch yourself across map quickly lol

[delicate yew]

The flow rate is going up and down really fast

[amber edge]

try pump right after it

[thorn bane]

ye sounds like headlift

[delicate yew]

This is the only lift area, I will add a pump here for each pipe