math-and-meta

[fierce ruin]

yeah you can make that

you could also double the frameworks created which make them nicer, but that might be a bit of work to build

[vapid gorge]

what do you mean 'cleaning'?

[raw cobalt]

Just make the numbers more even

But ye, how would i split this, what im most confused about atm

[outer vale]

either

• use a manifold (ie just chain splitters), which will eventually self-balance as long as input = output
• make two sets of Steel Pipe constructors that each make the relevant amounts
• in this case, smart splitter set to Overflow the excess

when one part's going into storage/sink you need to be a tad more careful manifolding since that part won't self-balance (ie if you send more than 26/min it'll happily accept it and not back up, and that backing up is required for manifold self-balancing)

[raw cobalt]

True, heres more, this is probably what i find the most confusing in the game atm

[outer vale]

same deal

[outer vale]

these are universal

if you've got two miners, you could have one pull the 112.5 and one the 56.25
or for any setup, as long as you have mk3 belts, you could put it all on one belt and manifold that to the smelters and foundries

[raw cobalt]

True, Which method do you recommend for the iron pipes?

[outer vale]

I don't see any iron pipe

[raw cobalt]

Oop meant steel

Im silly

[outer vale]

since you've got output to storage/sink there, I'd do a smart splitter with Any (or Steel Pipe) going to wherever the 54 is going, then Overflow to storage/sink

[raw cobalt]

Oki

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=mlZrdsws3CuPN3hWRh2V heres the entire thing, any changes i should make?

[outer vale]

looks reasonable

looks like the sorta thing I'd end up with, I also like to try and use round-ish numbers of nodes where I can

[nocturne tundra]

Feels l ike this was meant to be.

[wind spade]

you don't need to merge it, so why split it

[vapid gorge]

if decimals give you a stroke this isn't the game for you.

they are entirely arbitrary to the unit of time you use

[nocturne tundra]

How many fuel gens should I have with the 400 fuel?
19, and buffers?

[outer vale]

no buffers

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch FG

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=FG

[outer vale]

how much does one gen use? 400 divided by that

[vapid gorge]

the wiki is your friend

[wind spade]

don't need buffers for anything (apart from train station buffering)

[nocturne tundra]

Okay

[raw cobalt]

I don’t really mean decimals, i mean like splitting 57 in 1 direction and 139 in the other, instead of like, 60 and 120 etc

[nocturne tundra]

I love it when the numbers are round.
Only issue is I only have mark4 belts. But it's nothing splitting can't fix.

[wind spade]

I mean you can do this with mk1s

[nocturne tundra]

Oh right lol.

[wind spade]

practically anything can be done with mk1s 😄

[nocturne tundra]

Only problem now is making the factory.
It's still better than when I tried to make a big factory, idn't have enough resources nearby, and idn't feel like getting resources in or underloking everything

[wind spade]

that's why you pick a place for the factory that has the resources nearby

[nocturne tundra]

I have 3 pure coal nodes in spaghetti belts. And 3 pure iron nodes are practically at the location where I'm gonna make the steel factory.

That is, if I progress sulfur to the point I can blow up that stupid rock.

[vapid gorge]

manifolds split things evenly over time, so you don't need to manually split them if you have a fast enough belt

you could also make 57 in one group and 139 in another group

[fierce ruin]

that is a lot of steel beams and pipes lol

if they're for personal use

[nocturne tundra]

Personal use for steel beam is 90, steel pipe is 60. Rest is used in heavy modular frame factory. And might use some of the materials later for other factories.

[wind spade]

I'd recommend not building things in advance

[nocturne tundra]

So only build how much I'd need?

[wind spade]

yea

you can't know how much you'll need in the future

unless you've planned your entire playthrough from scratch 😛

[nocturne tundra]

How much would I need to keep for personal use?

[wind spade]

a few per minute is usually enough, depends on how fast and how much you build

[nocturne tundra]

Is it a good idea to have seperate factories? And that I just truck the steel beam and pipes to the fatory that will make the heavy modular frames?

[vapid gorge]

if that's how you want to design it, sure 🙂

[wind spade]

or separate factories that don't have trucks between them

[fierce ruin]

would this amount be good for personal use?

[vapid gorge]

more than enough. You'd be fine with like 5pm

[fierce ruin]

alright

[wind spade]

activate your windows

[fierce ruin]

nuh uh

[midnight shell]

@vapid gorge there's a pump there if that's what ur asking

[vapid gorge]

yeah there its , sometimes it needs to be right before hand.

so I think something weirder is happening with your system that I can't see.

I'm not going to be home for hte next 40 some hours though as I'm heading out for the weekend. My recommendation is accept your fuel station not running at 100% for now and I can take a look at your save when I get home if you like

there's honestly something probably small and simple causing the hiccup

I'm heading to sleep though, it's 1am 🙂

[midnight shell]

can we keep this conversation is dms

[midnight shell]

alr thx for the help regardless, have a good rest haha

[magic dock]

Mysterious flow in manifold

[true merlin]

Time for my 1st alu production :o

[summer gyro]

you can activate windows via the command prompt btw, dont gotta spend $100

[fierce ruin]

im a proud non-activator

[wind spade]

or just use free OS if you don't want to pay for it

[quasi drift]

how many meters is this roughly?

i wanna plan a factory that knows how long different conveyor belts and miners need to reach the factory, but getting the first converyor belt right is a pain

using the grid system and platforms to keep track of knowing how much distance i have

[crimson moat]

Map coordinates are in meters, so you get a direct readout of length in one axis (X or Y)

For diagonals, you can calculate with Pythagoras' Theorem (a^2+b^2=c^2)

foundations are 8 meters with snap points each 1.0 meter so you can also use those.. zoop 10 of one color, that's 80 meters, zoop 10 more of a different color etc.

For short distances, put a foundation and moving it one "notch" is +1m.

[viral sparrow]

this is not trigonometry

[quasi drift]

thank you a tonnn

[quasi drift]

yee dats some spicy info XD lets seee if i'll get close enough to realtime with my calculations

[crimson moat]

nps

Joints might be a bit weird, and mixing different angles also weird 😛

[quasi drift]

prolly also gotta account for the time it takes for the miner to start mining and boot up to synch things

[crimson moat]

yeah it takes 10 seconds

[quasi drift]

yuss, still better than not caring at all tho, cuzz in extreme cases it can desync a factory

[crimson moat]

you might have to make some squiggly lines to get the lengths perfect like this 😄

they put them when a line B is shorter than line A, line A can't be made shorter, yet they have to be the same length.

[quasi drift]

yusss, i got dat alot lmao

with playing desert

[quasi drift]

oh prolly could also just measure in time to get an exact value

[crimson moat]

the squiggles are for stuff that is starting and stopping unpredictably

just so that they can send the same signal down line A1 and A2, and it will arrive simultaneously even though A2 is further away

[quasi drift]

huhh o.0

[wind spade]

out of curiosity, what's the reason behind needing to know the length?

[quasi drift]

hmm im kinda trying to make seamless factories and sometimes have multiple sources merging into the same conveyor belts and its all messy and desynched sometimes

[wind spade]

shouldn't that be covered by the "buffer" (which is space on the belt + internal machine buffers)?

[quasi drift]

like having a line of limestone constructors, and needing an input of 180 limestone, taking different sources that require different amount of time to get to the factory to form those 180 limestone per minute

[wind spade]

like if you provide 180 in total, it shouldn't matter how far things are, it will eventually balance out

[quasi drift]

yaaa but it makes me kinda crazy xD i started atleast putting storage containers to kill overflow from conveyorr belts, and just try to make em even lengthed roughly

but measuring time is alot less pain than length for dis

[quasi drift]

dunno wat either is tho

[wind spade]

each machine can hold a stack of items

and belts obviously hold items as well

[quasi drift]

ohhh das how you mean, mb bad language rn xD

[wind spade]

for your example, if you have e.g. a 60 source close and 120 source away, it doesn't matter that the 60 goes there faster, the machines will for a while run just out of the 60, until the extra 120 arrives (all is per minute)

[quasi drift]

truee if you let it run for a bit

i'd say that plus storage containers could jus be enough, (to have enough resources already at the factory when power goes on again)

[wind spade]

even without containers it will work 🙂

but you do you, it's your save, just saying that it may be unnecessary 🙂

[quasi drift]

its not reallyyy important but it looks better xD

[quasi drift]

hmmm just thinking about the pain about playing like months or years ago xD
i might just need to split/merge a little smarter

planning on doing multiple buildings that are specialized for one or two parts and then reroute to other buildings, and stack layers ontop of each other and use a ton of signs and lamps and what not and decorations XD

[quasi drift]

doesn take that long tooo tbh- i don wanna go tooo precise, jus roughlyyish

checkin that the material prices are the same on every lane to begin with and das mostly enough for my uses tbh

[pulsar lagoon]

i want to conect this drone ports like this, how to do it

In A is my Fuel base where i craft the fuel for other drone ports to use and i want to deliver the fuel to other drone ports to use it

so far am conect each drone port with a single new drone fuel base A1 or A2.....

something like this

but if i want to use a new drone port and that drone port need fuel i need to put another drone port in the fuel base A3 and conect it to the new drone port somewhere in the map

[vapid gorge]

Drones only go a to b

Generally it’s easier to have multiple drones stopping at one location and fuel just that one stop.

Easier because fewer points you need to fuel

[pulsar lagoon]

is that posible?

something like this?

but in drone port A you can only put B por as destination but no C at the same time

[vapid gorge]

This is fine yes

That’s because a drone can only have 1 destination

You could have A to B to C but that would require 3 drones

A to B
B to C
C to A

[pulsar lagoon]

something like this?

[vapid gorge]

Sure but you can’t do it with one drone.

And you don’t want to have the fueling drone carry non fuel

[amber umbra]

@pulsar lagoon There's some nice reddit posts describing the standard "many-to-one" style drone setup often used for fuel distribution. The setup is also useful for any item that has multiple downstream consumers though.

[pulsar lagoon]

can you share the link?

[amber umbra]

@pulsar lagoon Google "satisfactory the ultimate drone guide". Then ctrl+f "many-to-one".

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/mbqex4/the_ultimate_drone_guide/

But generally you need to go in game and play around with drones transporting items a bit to really get a feel for them. They're pretty straightforward overall.

[pulsar lagoon]

ty

[nocturne tundra]

I did some hard drive gathering. Still have 7 left to scan in maam.
Which ones should I keep. And should I rescan the rest, or leave as is?

[wind spade]

only you can decide that

there's no bad choice with alt recipes, pick any that you like

you can get them all anyway

[digital flare]

Actually I think it's fair to say Charcoal and Biocoal are objectively useless

But otherwise yeah it's up to them

[wind spade]

It's not fair, I've seen people legitimely use those

[viral sparrow]

what are things you want or need to make?

[remote flame]

Let's say you have 1 piece of Alien Remains (any kind), you could somersloop that to 2 Alien Proteins
-> You then sloop those 2 Alien Proteins in to 400 Biomass
-> You then sloop that 400 Biomass in to 960 Coal (and any additional biomass you would like to feed in to 'stockpile' the generators a bit)
960 Coal is capable of driving a 4800MW plant, for the cost of 1 alien remain a minute

[Without slooping, 1 Alien Remain > 1 Protein > 100 Biomass (potentially 375MW of BioBurners w. Solid Biofuel) > 120 Coal > 600MW of Coal Generators ]

Now this is an extreme example, because it would chew up some sloops and be highly dependent on your belt speed in the alien protein > Biomass stage.. But that is pretty nuts for something you could easily get more than 1/min of haha
(I made the example as I have seen that exact one done, they didn't want to hike to the nearest coal node so they just completely made their own plant lol)

Now Alt: Charcoal however.. 1 Wood makes 5 biomass = 6 coal when using Biocoal. Alt: Charcoal turns 1 Wood into 10 Coal directly . So it is a big improvement if this is a setup that people would wish to use over their current biomass burners for any reason.
I won't say I'd do it personally, but it's an option for others haha

[viral sparrow]

this is why this game is so good, there are so many ways to do the same thing

[fierce ruin]

...you can type in the amount you want per minute?

[outer vale]

you can even type in math

[fierce ruin]

im flabbergasted

they really thought of every QoL feature

im redoing my oil once i get blenders, no point in it now

[wind spade]

Yes, but there's still only limited precision, f.e. in the example above, you aren't really producing 80

[fierce ruin]

oh

[wind spade]

if you type the amount per minute you want, the game calculates the clock speed you need, and sets the clock speed based on that

so for your example, you need 133.3333333...% clock speed, but it's limited to 4 decimals, so you can either have 133.3333% or 133.3334%, which would result to either 79.99998/min or 80.00004/min

obviously you may say this is close enough and live with it, but some people don't like this, even though it's very minuscule difference

[fierce ruin]

im irrational so, ironically, i dont like it

[raw cobalt]

if i wanted to do a mandifold for that, how should i build it?

[livid turret]

Seems like a lot of effort to make sense of a recipe that requires manual feeding on an automation game. This is niche in excess and still not useful enough because it is not unattended.

I'm not arguing that you can use the coal you generate but it's going to be limited and end without warning

[versed violet]

Do note however, that alien remains and other biological parts can be made into dna capsules and sunk for way more points than the value of coal you get. It may be even worth slooping those for more dna points.

[wind spade]

it's decent for e.g. ammo factory

[fierce ruin]

hmm i could use 5 assemblers and send the overflowing encased beams to a sink

i think that works?

[wind spade]

why not 5.625?

[fierce ruin]

?

[wind spade]

oh assemblers

well if you make 5 assemblers, you won't have overflowing beams

because you still have materials only for 4.688

[fierce ruin]

oh right

oh heavy frames, how i wish you didnt hate me

https://tenor.com/view/cakeuis-dj-khaled-gif-24296363

WAIT

it only shows a rounding error there

its possible

[wind spade]

it doesn't show rounding error. It shows exact numbers

[fierce ruin]

sorry its just because i didnt put my mouse on it, it shows one at 68.75%

alright time to get the heavy frame alt

[formal kelp]

what is limit for grid id in the game?

[wind spade]

grid id?

[fierce ruin]

oh i already had it lol

[fierce ruin]

this better be a good place for my heavy frames

[shell kindle]

Build them below the map and distribute them using drones so it's like they're ascending from hell

[glossy snow]

they belong there im about to redesign my whole factory cause of them

[fierce ruin]

oh load balancing my blessed

[warm igloo]

Holly crap
Brb i'm gonna make diamonds out of spitters remains

[crimson moat]

my man!

join the floating point haters

[dusky dust]

The known "problems" with fluids have nothing to do with floating point problems, fwiw

And the majority of the problems in the past with fluids/belts also haven't had anything to do with floating point precision (though I do think there's been one or two)

[robust raptor]

Factorio switched to fixed point representation for fluids in 2.0, which fixed some of its own fluid rounding errors with floating point

[brisk epoch]

From someone who’s had to do fixed point math professionally, know that converting to fixed point isn’t simple. You have to do tradeoff analysis. Satisfactory devs are rightly leery of switching due to the risk of a brand new and different set of bugs appearing

[robust raptor]

Converting a fundamental thing like float to fixed point isn't simple inherently

[crimson moat]

You're directly contradicting a developer of the game here

It was a mistake to use floating point rather than e.g. int

we know that now, if there was a time machine it wouldn't be done, but it's a bit of a different matter to make a significant change like that in a patch with a game that has persistent worlds.

just found it funny to see basically my own argument but a year before, back in alpha. It would've been easier to change it then.

[civic bronze]

really proud of this early game oil setup, making little bit of everything for the future from all of the oil in this area - 2 normal nodes + 1 pure node > 400 fuel (just straight into gens for now), 400 plastic, 400 rubber, 360 resin/240 canisters (depending what i need, smart splitters <3) 1260 coke, also used some water and made 240 liquid biofuel setup that can feed 100 biomass gens that you can see right there

well its ugly but hey everything running at 100% 🤌

[dusky dust]

The fluid system in particular was confirmed as Working As It's Supposed To

[wind spade]

you may be confusing old floating point issue bug with pipes that was resolved already with current "issues" of pipes (that are actually features)

[crimson moat]

Nah, you just can't resolve floating point imprecision issues (and thus phantom creation or deletion of fluids) unless you simply don't use floating point, which is still in use AFAIK. It's fundamentally imprecise, and accumulates error.

[dusky dust]

Phantom creation + deletion of fluids is, AFAIK, not a known problem with the game

[crimson moat]

It is, just on a very small scale. It's impossible to do floating point math without it.

[dusky dust]

There was a problem with that back in the day, I believe, but that wasn't even floating-point related, I don't think

[wind spade]

you just can't resolve floating point imprecision issues
sure, but you can make them very small and have systems around to even further make it accurate

[dusky dust]

Well, I suppose if you've seen a developer say recently that there are problems with floating point precision in the game, then I couldn't argue with that. Everything I've heard in the past year from any vaguely official source is that floating point is not the source of any known problem in the game, though

[vapid gorge]

I think it was shadow fixed u6 or u7

[wind spade]

most of the times where dev said floating point issues are in pipes were pre-1.0

[crimson moat]

you can, but it's additional complexity and doesn't completely resolve the error - while a system which doesn't use floating point is less complex and does not have the error at all. It's simply better if you have to pick A vs B architecture.

The reason that we're not using it right now is, AFAIK, because the devs who wrote it didn't know better at the time - and because any change to the simulation would require significant investment and could bring new and unintended bugs.

[dusky dust]

It's more just that people know that floating point values are imprecise, and stuff like fluids in this game exhibit behavior which seems erratic and imprecise, and assume that the two must be related (plus that there may have been some floating-point problems in the past). Everything I've heard from the CSS side is that no current problems are related to it, though. (Nor is the current pipe/fluid quirks, which are technically not problems by various definitions. :)

[crimson moat]

It's very intuitive to be like "numbers between 0 and 1, that's what floating point is for!" but it's also wrong, and harmful to accuracy.

[dusky dust]

Anyway, as I say, if you do have a source or whatever where a dev is saying that floating point is currently causing problems in the game, then I'll have no choice but to stand corrected. :D

[crimson moat]

The video from 1yr ago that the quote is from

i closed it a few hours ago though, it was Snutt talking about floating point imprecision injecting error into pipes.

[wind spade]

that was pre-1.0, right?

so that's outdated

[crimson moat]

Yes, but floating point has not fundamentally changed in the last year or even the last 10.

[wind spade]

no but pipes did

[dusky dust]

Yeah, I remember Snutt talking about that too, but my impression was that those problems had been fixed in 1.0, yeah

[crimson moat]

It's literally impossible to fix them within the floating point format, they may have been reduced in magnitude.

[dusky dust]

There's always ways to get around floating point imprecision

[wind spade]

and they specifically mentioned fixing the "floating point bug" with pipes

[dusky dust]

Anyway, feel free to believe what you believe, of course, but that pre-1.0 comment doesn't convince me. :)

[crimson moat]

Why do you think that the devs of a game have somehow fixed fundamental issues of one of the most common number formats?

[wind spade]

I'm not saying there's no float imprecision in the game, but based on what devs said, current pipe system doesn't suffer visibly from any floats and most likely is not possible to have it become a problem (and it definitely has nothing to do with "pipe manifold issues")

[crimson moat]

(and it definitely has nothing to do with "pipe manifold issues")

nobody asserted that it did

for phantom deletion and creation of fluids, it's just a question of the magnitude.

[dusky dust]

Sure: make sure your simulation does not rely on being accurate beyond a specified decimal point

Round your values, like any other system that uses floats

[wind spade]

I'm not saying they fixed float imprecision. I'm saying they fixed the bug that was affecting pipes stability (and was called "pipe floating point bug")

[dusky dust]

I'm not saying that's what they did but there's often ways to deal with it

[crimson moat]

Well, there may have been a bug involving floating point that was seperate. What i'm talking about is a fundamental inability of floating point to describe an exact and consistent number.

[dusky dust]

Yeah, I'm not suggesting they somehow changed the fundamental nature of floats

But a system like this could certainly be adjusted to not care that floats are imprecise

[wind spade]

afaik game doesn't track units under liters anyway, so rounding would be a good way to fix it indeed

[dusky dust]

And since we don't exactly have access to their codebase, all we can go on is their statements that it was fixed

[crimson moat]

Not fully AFAIK

And since we don't exactly have access to their codebase, all we can go on is their statements that it was fixed

you are talking about a different issue

afaik game doesn't track units under liters anyway, so rounding would be a good way to fix it indeed

I know for a fact that it does, tenths of a liter are stored in save files and visible in the UI.

[dusky dust]

Anyway, I think we're at an empasse, and the doggo needs a'walkin'.

Agree to disagree, I guess. :)

[wind spade]

if it's 1-5 decimal spaces (which would be around 1/100th of mililiters), decimal imprecision won't show there if you round

[crimson moat]

I am not gonna agree to disagree on the fundamentals of floating point, they are extremely well established and documented facts that predate our being born

Actually the idea of floating point is apparently some 4000 years old at least

[wind spade]

so yeah, if you base your whole system on the fact that fluid amounts go to max of X decimal spaces (X being a reasonably small number), then you never suffer from any floating point issues

[crimson moat]

You still do because of accumulation of errors which are smaller than that, until they are no longer smaller

[wind spade]

decimal imprecision happens (well at least in languages I deal with, but it should be similar in C++) around 8-9th decimal point. You'd have to have VERY VERY VERY bad code for decimal error to propagate three orders of magnitude higher

[crimson moat]

There are 100,000 game ticks per hour.

10 million ticks in 100 hours

[wind spade]

if you round each tick, the error doesn't stack

[crimson moat]

It does

because it causes you to incorrectly round e.g. up when you should have rounded down, and vice versa

[wind spade]

you don't round incorrectly, if error happens around 8-9 decimal point, rounding to 5 decimals is safe

[crimson moat]

float errors affect the rounding of the decimal above them, which affects the rounding of the decimal above that and so on - through the whole number.

there is no limit to the error propagation

believe me, it would be enormous math and computer science news and like nobel prize level stuff if somebody fixed this

but it doesn't really make sense for there to even be a way to fix it - we have a finite range of precision given this amount of information, 32 bits. It can describe about 4 billion numbers with perfect accuracy, or more than 4 billion with significantly compromised accuracy.

there is a simple and easy way to avoid the problem, which is to just use integers if you need fewer than 4 billion discrete numbers. We want 1000 liter pipes? A 32-bit integer unit can be 1/4000000th of a liter.

Float throws away accuracy to make it possible to describe 0.00000002 or 200 trillion within the same 32 bits. That is not a requirement or even a benefit, so why take the downside?

Something can even be a pretty tiny error but accumulate over a million simulation tick iterations into a noticable effect.

I find it very weird that people argue:

A: that floating point error doesn't exist or can't propagate/accumulate all of the way - it's well proven by some of the greatest minds on the planet

B: that there is a significant benefit to use floating point in this case and therefore equivelant systems should be intentionally built using floating point, being aware of this problem

The only good argument that i've seen is that it's here now and change is hard, which is perfectly valid and agreeable. But i don't understand people who wanna argue about it supposedly not being an issue. It is an issue, a minor one, but that's how the math works.

I found it interesting that it was highlighted in alpha and not chosen to be changed back then.

[wind spade]

it can propagate if you don't round 🤷

and I heavily doubt you can get a single calculation of two rounded values that would differ in third decimal digit from actual result

[crimson moat]

Well, you can. And it does.

[wind spade]

haven't seen such a case yet (and I've done A LOT of working with decimals). Best/worst case I could do was like 7th digit

I'm not defending their decision to use floats, but I'm defending their decision of not rewriting the entire fluid system to use integers instead, esepcially at this point in the development

[robust raptor]

I'd also like to point out that there's a difference between float arithmetic being fundamentally imprecise and float arithmetic's imprecision actually showing up as a noticeable impact ingame

The first is very true, the second less so

It's certainly true that using something else like fixed point representation or ints would have avoided all the issues with float arithmetic in the first place, but the imprecision of float arithmetic generally doesn't show up as a very noticeable effect a lot of the time in gameplay

[civic bronze]

I will just put this here

[frosty owl]

That should've been the core of the convo, imo.
Saying that everything works "fine" doesn't imply that there's absolutely 0% errors in the game's calculations, just that they're tiny enough that "enough" people don't notice.

In other words: pipes are imprecise, but not to a degree noticeable by 99.something% of players

[hidden breach]

is there a way to automatically import factory plans from satisfactory tools into satisfactory modeller?

[vapid gorge]

no, because modeler sucks

[vapid gorge]

and if you're already using a much better planner why modeler? break up your tools plan into smaller chunks , other tabs, if that's what you want

[hidden breach]

my reasons for choosing one over the other are irrelevant for this question But i see there really is no way hm.
I want to use modeller for instances where my factories are slightly different from the plan and so i have to adjust calculations with subtle changes without losing the entire configuration
Your solution of using multiple smaller tabs is fitting for those steps

[vapid gorge]

well may modeler's lack of functionality keep screwing people over

[fierce ruin]

this pure node is 300/min at 250%, yet the other two pure nodes at 600/min at 250%, is that a bug or true

[vapid gorge]

teh smaller ones are prob well presurizers

[fierce ruin]

oh they are

ill still build my proper fuel plant there though

seems like a good spot

[vapid gorge]

presurizersa nd dnoes aren't the same....

[fierce ruin]

yeah

[fierce ruin]

horrible

not using the recycled recipes

[vapid gorge]

you don't actually need loops

[fierce ruin]

lot simpler and uses like 200mw less power

[vapid gorge]

if you're using electrode circuit boards you're not looking to save on oil anyway

[fierce ruin]

oh im not saving oil

[vapid gorge]

and you can use recycle recipes w/o loops. Just don't loop it

send the plastic/rubber to another set of refineries that uses fuel.

[civic bronze]

recycled recipes worth it?

[outer vale]

more output per oil at the cost of more complexity, buildings and power

[opaque quartz]

Recycled recipes give you the maximal yield of plastic/rubber per oil (when combined with HOR and diluted alts), at the expense of complexity and power

[fierce ruin]

ew i need quartz, yeah im scouting for more hard drives

[amber umbra]

The recycled recipe puzzle is cool. I enjoyed playing with that for the first time.

[viral sparrow]

id make more than that/min just for depot purposes tbh, theyre the easiest of all of the conveyor materials to produce at mass relative to the stage

and youll want to make casings for the same thing too - blenders use casings to build

[fierce ruin]

yeah i only did it so i could get the blender, i dont really know where to go from here lol

[viral sparrow]

and yeah definitely try and get more hard drives - sloppy alumina is another great recipe as it removes the silica byproduct (and im pretty sure is more bauxite efficient)

[fierce ruin]

wait so turbofuel doesnt make more power, it just lasts longer?

[viral sparrow]

fuel gens always burn the same amount, different fuels burn for longer

[fierce ruin]

kk

[viral sparrow]

combine this with the electrode scrap and pure alu ingot recipe and you get 1:1 bauxite:alu ingot ratio

[amber umbra]

Fuel gens have a constant power production but variable fuel volume/time. So better fuels generate more power.

[fierce ruin]

i have sloppu, pure, but not elec

[viral sparrow]

only issue (maybe) is it uses crude oil. just build near it and your good to go

you could even use water byproduct if there is any to make resin products e.g rubber/plastic/fabric

[opaque quartz]

In effect you can build more gens for the same amount of fuel. A fuel generator always produces 250 MW at 100% clock regardless of fuel type

Same is true for other generators as well

[fierce ruin]

ok so im going to: finish temp comp setup > make baux setup > make new fuel plant (place in pic below, hopefully good) > do whatever

[viral sparrow]

temp comp?

[fierce ruin]

temporary computer setup

[viral sparrow]

why temporary? theyre used for a few machines so youll need them for depot anyways

[fierce ruin]

because im building it at my current oil area, which i initially rushed and ended up being a nightmare

[viral sparrow]

blender, signals for trains, radar tower and programmable splitter

[fierce ruin]

plus im building my new power plant here, so ill tear down what ive made

[viral sparrow]

good area

i have my adaptive control units set up there as well as other oil stuff

and i have modular engines there too

you can make a nice train station and make lots of parts there

[fierce ruin]

yeah

[fierce ruin]

oh man

[civic bronze]

@opaque quartz @twin shore my build going so far, so gens gonna be like this +3 floors up

[fierce ruin]

geez

[opaque quartz]

Overclocking would cut down on how many gens/floors you need to do

A fully OC’d fuel generator takes 50 fuel/min and generates 625 MW

[civic bronze]

well, if i overclock 200% ill have to build one floor up

i have exactly 80 shards on me tho

one connected gen you see there just burns 20 fuel from 30 oil, just for the build to take 300 instead of 270 xd

[twin shore]

Honestly blue crater has enough space to build on one level

You can go off the edge since your platform is floating too

[fierce ruin]

i can very well do this, should i? its for personal use

about 640mw

[civic bronze]

thats seems plenty for personal use

[fierce ruin]

yeah, buts it only going off of 1 pure bauxite node

then i get a lot of stuff to sink as well

[civic bronze]

sure, looks good

[wind spade]

that's overkill xD

[fierce ruin]

in the future ill probably make most of it be used in production lol

[glad vigil]

I’d use electrode scrap there and pure ingot

But it depends on bauxite location

[civic bronze]

when connecting fuel gens vertical floors how should i do it, pic1 or pic2 - is there a difference? (view from side)

im only asking bc its gonna be full 600 pipe, so i expect some issues lol

[crimson moat]

not #2, and dont use 600 pipe

[civic bronze]

okay thanks so 300 for two floors and 300 for another two, like pic1

[fierce ruin]

why? is mk1 immune to having issues when maxed out?

@twin shore same

made the same number but seemingly a lot more was used

[twin shore]

This is mine, alts made it much more resource efficient

[fierce ruin]

i think i forgot to enable water, so it wouldnt work with wet concrete lol

[twin shore]

Only issue I can see is that there's no good way to split up the iron ingots, so it just has to be one super long manifold

It's probably gonna take 10+ min to saturate

[outer vale]

just clock the ingot producers into groups

[crimson moat]

More specifically i mean don't try to use 100% of a pipes capacity for anything but the most simple layout

@civic bronze "okay thanks so 300 for two floors and 300 for another two, like pic1"

split into 150 per floor, so a pipe doesn't have to go up or down floors after

[fierce ruin]

oh ok

[twin shore]

Too much effort imo, easier to build the machines in groups and then just manifold them all together rather than doing all the math to match refineries up with groups of machines

[civic bronze]

alright i think i can do that 🙏

[twin shore]

I agree, using 100% of a pipe doesn't seem to work for me most of the time

There's always some sloshing

[civic bronze]

i managed to do it with pure oil node on my oil ref

[twin shore]

I had exactly 600 turbofuel which you would expect to work, but even making a looped manifold it still didn't reach 600/min flowrate

So I just split it into two pipes of 300 each, never had a problem after that

Fluids are weird

[civic bronze]

exactly that

100% - split into 2 of 300, with one mk2 pipe it was at 95-97%

idk if valve even does anything there lol

heard to never use them but hey it works

[crimson moat]

you can't prevent backflow through a junction if you use a basic manifold design

because of the way manifolds work with preferentially filling pipes earlier in the manifold, and because of there being no such thing as a valved junction or pipe (the valve is a seperate part, and you have to connect pipe junction pipe valve pipe - you get backflow from the pipe junction pipe bit)

you can entirely prevent backflow if you use a gravity-graded load balancer which intentionally has some pipes underfilled at all times - a feature that is not possible on a basic manifold. That feature prevents backflow because no liquid is high enough to flow enter the junction on the downhill side, but it is on the uphill side. They require more knowledge, time and space to implement.

On pipe to pipe connections with no junction, a simple valve > pipe > valve > pipe > valve configuration will entirely prevent backflow, so that's an easy build to move something from A to B.

Given the pretty long list of constraints that have to be followed for 0 backflow with junctions, it's a lot easier to just make a pipe which is tolerant of a certain level of backflow

by not trying to force 100% of its flow through it 100% of the time in a specific direction

[civic bronze]

damn this is very well explained

[twin shore]

Best way to deal with fluids is to not try to perfect them lol

Just give them the ability to do what they want

[civic bronze]

they want to be turned into cool things for pioneer at 100% efficiency (they told me) 😋

[civic bronze]

but like, on my pic each of mk1 pipes uses 300/min so why does it work

[crimson moat]

It can be done, they're just very easy to break.

The fluid simulation also depends on some information that isn't conveyed in a simple screenshot or mspaint drawing - the exact way that you connect the pipes and make a pipe out of smaller pipe sections affects the simulation, so two different builds which look identical can behave differently.

[wind spade]

larger pipes are more likely to have issues due to larger amounts of fluids moved per tick

[vapid gorge]

Pls don’t pay attention to what I have to assume is their valve nonsense

Hard to tell what you’re actually trying to do though

[frail sigil]

Are miners and resource collectors the only things you should be overclocking?
You can always make more crafters, but the resources available are very limited

[wind spade]

depends on you

[civic bronze]

I was just not sure how to split 600 turbofuel in my 4 floors x 20 fuel gens

[wind spade]

and resources are indeed "limited", but you won't really run out of them realistically

[vapid gorge]

create 4 groups of fluid producers. send 1 pipe to each floor

while it's possible to branch manifolds it's often a pain to do so
10x the pain over multiple floors

[civic bronze]

What you are saying is if i have 32 turbofuel rafis, connect 8 with each floor?

[vapid gorge]

precisely. Or however you want to clock/group things

with fluids you want, as much as possible. to go from Point A to Point B. No splits merges or elevation changes within the manifold

it's not impossible to branch manifolds, even over multiple floors. But it's fiddly and prone to failure. Like balancing rocks on the beach

[civic bronze]

I get it, thank you @crimson moat gave me same idea

[vapid gorge]

I don't particularly care. They once tried to argue that valves have a use with 'if you actively clock all your machines wrong in this step, and every step after this, you can use valves to limit the flow' and then was done with them

[civic bronze]

I turned it on couple minutes ago, its still spinning up, for now i did 16 into 2 floors x2 just to see how that will do, but can change to 8x4 like u guys said no problem

[vapid gorge]

put powered pumps after the split goign to each floor if you want to try to make it work

and flood the system by down clocking a few gens

you do not want elevation changes within a manifold

[civic bronze]

16x2 was not working, changed to 8x4 its all good now getting flat 20GW 👍

[vapid gorge]

if you're branching manifolds , powered pumps right after the junctions is often important

glad it's working though

[civic bronze]

after every junction??

[vapid gorge]

after teh branches going to different floors

also possibly right before the manifold on their particular floor

[dark nymph]

Didnt have someone find a use for valves some days ago? How did testing go?

[civic bronze]

Yes i did

Its the process of adding aesthetic elements or embellishments to an object, space, or event to enhance its visual appeal or create a specific atmosphere

Very useful for it

[dark nymph]

It was said that there would be no need for loops then. Sounds different

[vapid gorge]

mcgal found that sometimes putting a valve in front of a manifold did something

areyn showed untested wonk with no further evidence of reliability. Which isn't surprising because it was just valves on every section of hte manifold, which is something people do randomly trying to fix pipes w/o understanding them so I'm not surprised.

[civic bronze]

Wonder what people use more often, valves or jump pads

[vapid gorge]

valves

[civic bronze]

I think it would be cool if it kinda worked like smart splitter, for example when theres 300> fluid in pipe (mk2 obv) before the valve, it opens, if 300< then its closed, and u could tweak it

[vapid gorge]

you can do that with overflow humps already

[civic bronze]

Theres really no point in preventing backflow if u think about it, theres literally gravity for it

[civic bronze]

Oh, cool

[vapid gorge]

backflow is why manifolds stutters

[frosty owl]

I think maybe jumpads, because: even if few people use the pads frequently (unlike valves), everyone has to try the pads at some point for... gameplay reasons (unlike valves)

[vapid gorge]

people are more likely to spam valves constantly while jump pads are a bit of a niche gimick

[civic bronze]

Imo it just shouldn't if all pipes are leveled, thats just pipes being weird

Factorio has great pipe system, but i guess its way easier in 2d

[vapid gorge]

no opinion on it, if a perfectly flat pipe has an empty space behind the main flow, it'll flow backwards.

[civic bronze]

I hear you, but like 600/min from oil extractor on one pipe shouldn't have any issues with it, if all machines use 600

Yet somehow it does

It pumps fluid constantly creating flow inside the pipe thats just dont stop like that in real life

[vapid gorge]

because a machine in the middle of hte line can create an empty space free of oil. It's very simple

[civic bronze]

In Sf, yeah

Because fluid in sf doesnt have any kinetic energy/flow, and just tries to balance between whole system

[vapid gorge]

no that's gas in SF

that tries to even out how much it's filled

[civic bronze]

Dont think i got any gas before

[vapid gorge]

basically teh same as fluids since yo uwant to keep pipes fuill anyway

[civic bronze]

Tried looking it up, found pic from 5 years ago, this is what you mean, still works?

Im confused how this would work

Looks like it would create a siphon

[vapid gorge]

because grav priority

it won't go up the hump until the pipe before it is completely full

[robust raptor]

Factorio basically doesn't have a pipe system since 2.0 lol

2.0 fluids are op

[vapid gorge]

and if satisfactory turns pipes into covered belts that will be a sad day indeed

[swift robin]

yeah they simplified it, but i prefer this to the bizarre behavior pre-2.0 lol

[robust raptor]

That's true

It's also way nicer for overhaul mods where you need to deal with a billion fluids

[swift robin]

i just hate the pipe length limit is all

[astral hornet]

I'm trying to plan out my first nuclear power setup (wanna build plutonium fuel rods as well so I can long term store the plutonium waste rather than uranium).

Planning to use the Uranium Fuel Unit and Infused Uranium Cell alts, but wondering if I should go through the trouble of adding oil as a product and using the Plastic AI Limiter and Insulated Crystal Oscillator alts...

I don't wanna have a whackton of nuclear power plants. (thinking 2 on uranium fuel rods overclocked to 200%).

[outer vale]

up to you really, will adding oil improve it for you?

personally I left oil out because I could, but if the gains outweigh the downsides for you, go for it

"up to your preferences" is the common answer for most "should I do X" things in this game

[astral hornet]

Oh I know, I was more looking for opinions on how others have done it, I guess... I don't have that much time to game, I rather spend a little more time on setting up and preparing and then building it, rather than just going for it, spending 10 hours building it and then realizing "oh shit, this isn't optimal"

[outer vale]

the trouble with "optimal" is you have to define in what regard, resource efficiency isn't a one-size-fits-all thing

if you'll have oil near where you plan to build most of the factory, then it's more worth it to use oil than if you'd have to ship it in from miles away

[astral hornet]

oh no for sure, more of a "yeah by introducing oil and these and these alts, you get to cut out those and those resources"

yeah makes sense, I still need to find a place where I wanna build it...

Looks like north of the grass fields with the uranium from the cave and quarts/sulfur from the southern forest might make most sense for me. I've started my base in the rocky desert and only have some Ficsmas stuff there, so not too concerned with radiation etc there.

Although I still need to get caterium too 🤔

Maybe I should just double up my rocket fuel generation...

[civic bronze]

oh, didn't know they changed it, didn't play for a while

2.4 heavy modular frame/min be like
no meme, that's literally all it does (dont mind yellow lights just turned it on)

Well tbh i leave a lot of gaps, is it just me who separates smelters like that? Its kinda dumb but i dont like how they go off grid

[rain lichen]

if i was home i’d show you my 6/min one lmao

[civic bronze]

Im ready

[civic bronze]

I slooped mine for 4.8

[rain lichen]

i turned mine into 12/min

[civic bronze]

I know yours will look good lol

Mine just naked

[civic bronze]

Oh you said "if i was" idk why i read like "when i get home ill show you mine" well now know im waiting

[rain lichen]

well

so is mine lmao

i built it in a hurry

[civic bronze]

thats the best way

hmmm i just came home, only 10 stacks so far 😦 and its working at 92% efficiency, whyy... it was so simple, well gotta eat first

[rain lichen]

here it is

[civic bronze]

did you.. build in the same spot?

[rain lichen]

if you wanna save space, definitely conesider splitting up very very big arrays of machines (like the 2 billion smelters) into like 3 or 4 smaller rows

[rain lichen]

right by those 3 pure coal nodes in rocky desert?

[civic bronze]

it looks way better, grapics setting and colors and concrete do a lot damn XD

[rain lichen]

i love concrete

[rain lichen]

in terms of building itself, it's pretty much the same though 😉

just bigger

[civic bronze]

ik ik, i should go vertical too

[rain lichen]

and that lol, i didnt bother doing it here because i had no intention of caring abt aesthetics for this one build

oof my save is littered with unfinished projects that i never abandoned, i just do alot at once 🥲

[civic bronze]

i was just like - i made 24/min in sftools and was like ay this doesn't look too bad, ill just make quick 2.4/min for early game it will be so smol

and yet...

[rain lichen]

24/min might be a bit... much... 😨

[rain lichen]

this is HALF of that, if you sloop it

[civic bronze]

keep telling yourself XD nothing is more permanent than something temporary that works

[civic bronze]

but numbers turn out so good ill show you

[rain lichen]

that is a fair point

[civic bronze]

7x pure iron nodes + 3x stone normal nodes, thats gonna be my later project, when i get mk3 miners and mk6 belts

[rain lichen]

8400 iron, huh 😟

[civic bronze]

thats <10% of whats there 😄

[outer vale]

that's what you get for not using alts

[civic bronze]

im fine with it 🫡

[civic bronze]

@magic dock why would you go 100/min when u can go 96/min so clean

[magic dock]

Default recipe is 2/min so 100/min is clean

[civic bronze]

Fair but you dont have to split the nodes

[civic bronze]

finally figured out stupid quartz ratio, so from 480 ore you can make 300 silica and 180 quartz crystals

which means just place 8x constructors for both at 100%

[fierce ruin]

Could anyone help make this more efficient cos its for power and im not really good with pipes

[civic bronze]

Im bad at explaining, and since we cant see your whole setup im just gonna pull up what people said that helped me understand pipes a little better

[fierce ruin]

i fixed itself in the end thanks for the help tho

[civic bronze]

are those modded junctions?

[dusky dust]

Looks like they might just be clipped into the floor?

[civic bronze]

huh, if thats the case that looks clean

@dusky dust btw what are you up to now? new big project to finish up the save? new playthrough? having a break just lurking here from time to time?

[dusky dust]

It's slightly offtopic for this channel, honestly, but one main bit of advice would be to feed fluid from above, rather than below. Fluids work best when fed from above

[dark nymph]

And i asked if someone tested it

[dusky dust]

Heh, also offtopic, but at the moment just enjoying being finally through my 1.0 save. :D I'd resolved to take my time when I started it but had no idea it'd end up being nearly six months. :D

[fierce ruin]

yea

[lucid ermine]

i dont get it wtf 8400 iron ore

how do u even put that into 1 conveyor

almost 300 smelters??

200 constructors

das how i dont understand factorytools website, that just looks like an insanely big factory

like thats big enough to go out of your render distance

[civic bronze]

Why would it need to be 1 conveyor?

Its because i made it big

[lucid ermine]

doesnt need to be but is this seriously how u build the factory?

[civic bronze]

Its imaginary tool, helps with math

[dusky dust]

Yeah, solvers like sftools don't give you the implementation details, they just give you the overall plan that you can then implement however you like

[civic bronze]

You can create small factories no problem

[lucid ermine]

youre really gonna use like almost 1k buildings?

[civic bronze]

Later, maybe

[lucid ermine]

rn im just building a computer farm over the course of a few weeks

cuz ive ran back to my base more than 10 times by now

i log in, run back to base 3 times and then log out

i refuse to use the to do list

[civic bronze]

For now i built 10% as im in early game, i used same ratios and recipes and made 2.4/min with 840 iron ore

[lucid ermine]

i built one thats like 6/min

close to 6 more like 5.6

w limestone coal iron ore and copper ore

im gonna make a new world soon w a friend whos never played a game like this before, any tips?

[civic bronze]

Thats great, you can always double when u need more, with sloops

[lucid ermine]

how do u implement it differently than it says in the tools?

[wind spade]

why would you put it on one conveyor?

[wind spade]

tools don't say how you should implement it though

they just give you the numbers

[lucid ermine]

it does tho

[wind spade]

no it just gives you amounts of buildings

[lucid ermine]

yeah

whcih u need to put down no?

[wind spade]

yeah that's just basically "total clock speed"
how you reach that is up to you

[dusky dust]

Like in the example you gave -- you're asking how we'd put 8400/min ore on a single conveyor. You wouldn't do that -- in reality you'd have multiple miners extracting ore, each going to separate banks of smelters, etc.

[lucid ermine]

u need to reach the power speed of 280 smelters?

[wind spade]

3.5 machines can be 4 machines (one clocked at 50%), or 2 machines at 175% clock speed, or whatever

it's really up to you

[dusky dust]

Or maybe you'd even overclock/underclock machines, so your machine count doesn't actually match the diagram exactly

[lucid ermine]

okay lets say it says 60 smelters

[dusky dust]

Yeah, lots of options

[wind spade]

(and the arrows don't represent belts either)

[lucid ermine]

how do i make it not be 60 smelters

what do they represent

[wind spade]

you build different amount that in total has 6000% clock speed

[civic bronze]

30 smelters at 200 clock speed

[wind spade]

resource flow

[lucid ermine]

the hell is that

doesnt this say u split it into those 3?

[dusky dust]

Like, it could be a collection of belts, or it could be a truck route, or a train route, or a vehicle route.

[wind spade]

no, it says that "all the smelters make ingots which are needed at those 4 groups of machines"

[lucid ermine]

yh i have no clue how to use the routes

[dusky dust]

Or maybe you even split the whole factory up into multiple parts which all do the same thing and just combine at the end

[wind spade]

you can build 28 modules with 10 smelters each or whatever you want

[dusky dust]

You'd have some smelters going into Cast Screw constructors, some smelters going into Iron Plate constructors, and some more going into Iron Pipe constructors, etc

Different banks of machines outputting where they need to go

[lucid ermine]

whats a bank

[dusky dust]

Just a group of machines

And it's up to you how to arrange them; which belts to merge together, how you want to lay out the factory, etc.

[wind spade]

you could have the same plan without the arrows and it wouldn't change anything

[lucid ermine]

id need the arrows to know how much to put into each thing that i need to craft

[wind spade]

the boxes tell you that themselves

hover over one of them

it tells you how much that group of machines need and how much they produce

(in total)

[lucid ermine]

and how should i know how many to make

to not make it too complicated

[wind spade]

how many of what?

[lucid ermine]

like u can make alot of cement but not alot of like motors

how do i know if i select 1 2 or 5

[wind spade]

just build small amount for personal use and you'll most likely be fine, later if you keep running out of something, build more

[lucid ermine]

or 10

[wind spade]

(and don't reuse existing productions for your new factories, build things from raw ores)

[lucid ermine]

should i even build farms earlygame for space parts like space plating?

[wind spade]

*factories
and it's up to you

[lucid ermine]

idk i had 1 coal miner going into 2 different coal generator farms + 1 automated wiring farm

[wind spade]

again, pick some small number to start with, don't think about which nodes you have, just pick a number and calculate the production from that. Then find a place to build it

99.9% of the game is you making your own decisions, there's no "best" or "good" way to play (so even the suggestions I give you are really just suggestions)

[vapid gorge]

probably not, because it's dumb. Test it yourself.use at least 20 machines in the manifold

[old shoal]

This confuses me.

Do I only need to care about the "per minute" or does the volume matter as well?

[dusky dust]

99% of the time, the "per minute" number is the only one you have to worry about

The other number is the amount that's consumed/produced in a single cycle of the machine -- technically those are the numbers that the recipe uses; the rate is just computed from those

It's often nicer to use those single-cycle numbers to see the exact ratios of material, to get a feel for how efficient a recipe is for various resources

(Obviously you can use the per-min rate to get that too, but there's generally far less fraction simplification if you start with the counts, and you also won't have decimals to worry about)

[old shoal]

Thank you so much, very helpful. I got scared for a bit, I forget the numbers in my head when I'm flying from one side of my base to the other, no way was I gonna keep a double set.

XD

[opaque quartz]

pro-tip: use the "todo list" feature to make notes for yourself

[outer vale]

pro-tip 2: the cOdex has that info

[old shoal]

Memory like swiss cheese like sam from quantum leap.

[dusky dust]

The per-cycle number's also useful sometimes when taking the internal buffer into account. Like for instance if a recipe is generating 6 m³ HOR with each cycle, and there's 44.1 m³ already in the output buffer, that's when the machine will go into idle, because it can't fit the 6 m³ HOR into the output buffer.

[old shoal]

But eventually you can dismiss the input buffer right?

[dusky dust]

Not sure what you mean exactly, but so long as your numbers all match up and there aren't any belting/piping problems inbetween groups of machines, yeah, all the input/output buffers should settle into a state where everything's running at 100%

[old shoal]

Yeah thats what I meant @dusky dust ty.

[dusky dust]

While we're on the topic, I suppose, the particulars about those numbers also explain other behaviors which might seem rather mysterious

Like it's nearly always extremely useful for us to think about stuff in terms of per-minute rates, but it's good to know that that's not what actually happens

Which is the cause of a lot of the problems folks have with pipes. Like something's not consuming a steady rate of 60/min HOR -- rather, every N seconds it consumes 6 all at once

So you've got this sudden void which needs filling in, which is one reason why fluids can end up sloshing around a bit

And it's also why the particulars of overclocking works the way it does -- the percentage of overclocking applies to the time of the recipe

So a recipe might ordinarily takes 12 seconds; when you apply a 200% overclock, it'll take 6 seconds instead. The individual cycle consumption+creation numbers remain the same, though. It's just going through the recipe faster

That results in an average per-min change which changes the same way, of course, but it's just sort of good to know about

Though, again, 99% of the time you can just ignore it and only pay attention to the per-min

[old shoal]

Good stuff.

Just started working with pipes, I'm sure I'll have no issues whatsoever.

[vapid gorge]

keep them simple and you'll be ok.

[wooden jasper]

I messed up really bad

I'm making a big fuel factory in the northern island area and I thought canisters get reused when you use packaged water, but they don't

so to make use of the diluted fuel stuff, I have to make 1800 canisters/min, which ultimately means 1200 crude oil to make the plastic and then the cans

but there's only 1500 crude oil I can use atm with 900 already in use, so I'm actually cooked for this design

[fallow siren]

?

packaged diluted fuel doesnt consume any canister as they loop and sustain themselves

you dont need to continuously produce empty canisters

[civic bronze]

@wooden jasper

[wooden jasper]

oh wait maybe I double don't know how to read

hmm what's a good way to split this

60 output per packager into 50 input at each fuel gen

I guess conjoin 300 and split into 6 ways

[wind spade]

Just manifold

[wind spade]

They do

[wooden jasper]

should I build 90 gens to save on slugs or just 36 with 3 in each

I have this tucked away where it probably won't render most times, so I can probably handle having it be so large

1800 fuel is a LOT

[wind spade]

It's all your choice

[stoic quest]

the forbidden ladder

[stoic quest]

What if you want to expand your factory? Like I dont understand how some people make enclosed factorys, how do yall deal with it

[outer vale]

you just build what you need as part of the factory that needs it

eg if your new factory needs iron plates, you make iron plates there, rather than expanding your existing iron plate factory, wherever that may be, and shipping items across from however far away it is

[stoic quest]

ah yes

[outer vale]

think you're confusing this channel with #screenshots

[civic bronze]

yeah like meindratheal said - if i need more becausec i need new thing ill just build it in new factory that needs it. i like it, i tried doing one huge base on my first run even tho i knew it wasn't recommended and suprise - it didn't go well for me

[stoic quest]

Mmmh

Its a bit strange because I made the opposite

So I first did what you did and it was a total mess, but now I am doing like every material on its own and its a bit more managable, at least in the beginning of the game

Let's see how it turns out later on

[vapid gorge]

mostly just planning and practice

[civic bronze]

i guess both ways can be fine if done correctly

[fallow siren]

its easy as long as you have more space than you actually need, when youre done with the factory, u can delete the extra space you dont need

ex, if your final factory size is 50x100, just build 100x200 size

[civic bronze]

yeah, planning - what u saw on picture before is a part of my power generation - it was planned and is complete, takes 300 oil, 480 compacted coal in, gives 20GW (well 20.250 to be exact because theres one gen just burning fuel from 30 oil) and theres no reason for me to expand it, anything i need ill build a new factory @stoic quest

[stoic quest]

Planning

[civic bronze]

besides, its not even that enclosed, maybe the other pic gave you the impression that the whole thing is like that, but i could if i wanted tho

[civic bronze]

when you turning on new big factory and it doesn't even do much on your power grid

[civic bronze]

@rain lichen another one done - this time had to go little vertical, it makes 20 computers, 10 oscilators (+10 > computers) and 24 high speed connectors /min, uses 900 iron, 780 quartz, 300 copper, 180 caterium ore all locally (train doesn't go far, just enough to not have a belt), for now tho im feeding circuit boards into containers - but will automate them when i get drones, will have to make 54/min with just exactly 300/min of oil and a help from 1 or 2 🙂

[civic bronze]

i put 1 in this factory too, because i was making 270 cables and needed 280 and i already use 300 copper - the whole overclocked node i have here, its so useful for situations like this just gotta tweak some clocks right, pre 1.0 this would be pain 🙏

wait nvm i use iron for wires xd well i still have 300 ingots left here but just gonna leave it like this

[fierce ruin]

oh my god

what is that factory for

[civic bronze]

to progress... why ❓

[fierce ruin]

yeah but what is it making lol

[civic bronze]

i said in the message

[outer vale]

a mess

[fierce ruin]

OH

[civic bronze]

how is that so

[fierce ruin]

oh blender, why are you like this?

i can power 66 fuel gens with this

crazy

[civic bronze]

you can get more with normal turbo fuel recipe

[fierce ruin]

uses less sulphur + no coal

and about 400 mw less used

[wind spade]

Diluted fuel uses no sulfur and no coal 🙂

[fierce ruin]

let me just do a few more ones to see if i should do turbo fuel or diluted rq

[dusky dust]

Either one is fine, really. Though I wouldn't go out of my way to get coal+sulfur. If I've got them handy then I may use Turbofuel for power, but if not, I'll generally just go Diluted

(And really there's only a couple of places on the map where you've got oil+coal+sulfur all in close proximity)

[fierce ruin]

thats like 3x less power produced compared to my turbo fuel

[dusky dust]

No, Turbo vs. Diluted is nearly identical in the end, when using the most oil-efficient alts.

360 oil -> Fuel-via-Diluted gives you 960 fuel, which is 48 gens (or 12GW)

360 oil -> Turbofuel gives you 384 Turbofuel, which is 51.2 gens (or 12.8GW)

[fierce ruin]

is that using the turbo blend fuel alt

[dusky dust]

I mean, yeah, in your diagrams above you're combining both Turbo and Diluted, which will obviously give you more

Which is certainly also an option, if you don't mind all the fuel gen spam

Personally I tend to just use one or the other, though

[outer vale]

eh?

[wind spade]

But only needs oil and water 🙂

Both of which you have plenty-ish

[dusky dust]

I mean, in the end you've also got plenty of coal + sulfur, so it doesn't really matter

Few players are ever gonna max out any resource (with the possible exception of SAM, if someone's doing a big Ficsonium buildout)

[fierce ruin]

now im really thinking

[civic bronze]

he already got blenders, why bother with packager loop, its the same recipe

[outer vale]

you can definitely get way more than 384 turbofuel out of 360 oil

[outer vale]

I just turned on Maximise and went with whatever Tools spat out

[dusky dust]

Only by adding Diluted in as well

Which, again, is certainly an option. I'd thought the original question was Diluted or Turbofuel

In which case there's hardly a difference. If you combine 'em then of course you can get even more

[outer vale]

ah yes, I read it as max fuel from oil vs max turbofuel from oil, don't see why you'd kneecap your turbofuel by not using dilutey juice when talking about maximising output per oil

[fierce ruin]

i might just go with regular diluted then?

[dusky dust]

To save yourself endless fuel gen spam, mostly. :D

[outer vale]

lol fair

[dusky dust]

(Though, as I've said in the past, as a Pure Copper apologist, I probably can't actually complain about fuel gen spam)

[outer vale]

no, my rocket fuel plant's a tad heavy on gens

the real downside of fuel-based power

[dusky dust]

But yeah, if you do really want to maximize your power-per-oil, Diluted+Turbo (+Rocket, once you have it) is certainly the way to go

[fierce ruin]

all of this is confuddling my brain

[outer vale]

alts = powah

[civic bronze]

Lol can you explain for us outside?

[outer vale]

if you make a ton of fuel-based power you need a ton of gens

[civic bronze]

I mean "pure copper apologist"

[outer vale]

3000 rocket fuel = 720 gens

another recipe that ends up with a ton of buildings

[warm igloo]

Welcome to the fuel gang 😂

I wanted something small as well, turns out, with only 240ish raw oil i need something like 100ish fuel gens

[fierce ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-ohreally-flabbergasted-astonished-gif-7877609

[outer vale]

at least overclocking gens is linear

[dusky dust]

Heh, yeah, Pure Copper is a refinery recipe to make Copper Ingots which is very ore-efficient but power/number-of-buildings heavy. Just a notoriously slow recipe which ends up requiring a ton of machines to run, and adds in piping as well. There's a nonzero number of folks who dislike it since there are other alts which aren't quite as good ore-efficiency-wise but are a lot easier to deal with, but I still like Pure Copper. My most recent Nuclear Pasta buildout has like 160 Pure Copper refineries

[civic bronze]

Eh i built 80 and it wasnt bad

[civic bronze]

I just noticed its ratio, ew 😨 ore>ingots look great but damn thats scary recipe xD

[outer vale]

I might actually go alloy for my next factory just so I don't need so many refineries

[civic bronze]

You worked it out pretty nice 2400>6000 im gonna note this for future xd

[dusky dust]

Yeah, I use the Alloys a lot as well. For copper they're nearly as good copper-ore-wise, and have the advantage of being a lot easier to work with (at the "cost" of the most common resource on the map. :)

[outer vale]

yeah I should be less stingy with iron really

I'm a sucker for resource efficiency and water's basically free

but for numbers I'll realistically do, so's the iron

[dusky dust]

I basically always use the Alloys when I've got a factory which needs both iron and copper

Just so convenient since you're already bringing those together anyway

[opaque quartz]

Pure copper is like purpose built for copper powder/pasta IMHO. Both playthroughs is where I used that for

720 ore -> 1500 powder -> 1.5 pasta (IIRC)

[civic bronze]

Would you build that again in third run? Lol

[opaque quartz]

Idk probably? Maybe give leached a try next time

[civic bronze]

I really like leached just looking at it but kinda hesitate on using sulfur, theres not much on the map and i have no idea for its later use

[opaque quartz]

Sulfur is basically used for higher level power (turbo/rocket/nuclear) and explosives. That’s about it. Edit: forgot about instant scrap aluminum alt recipe too

If you do diluted fuel for your main power for example you can avoid involving sulfur at all

[civic bronze]

Doing only diluted power would be crazy, so much oil and gens to match it, and imagine without augumenters

[fierce ruin]

huh

[crimson moat]

same number of gens as rocket fuel

[civic bronze]

Are you doing diluted only

[civic bronze]

Oh, well

[crimson moat]

133 gens @ 250% = 100gw

[opaque quartz]

Yeah, the power output of the gens is the same regardless of the fuel, the only difference is the oil efficiency and thus how many gens you can run for a given amount of oil. Diluted gets you more fuel using water. Turbo gets you more using coal and sulfur, and rocket adds nitrogen on top of that

[safe gorge]

anyone know a good HMF blueprint?

[wind spade]

I mean... how much do you want to make? what recipes? what clock speed? etc

at that point just make it yourself, since you're gonna have to make all the decisions anyway

[crimson moat]

rocket fuel is also much more efficient with coal and sulphur than turbofuel is, hence the all-or-nothing approach with basic fuel to either rocket fuel or nuclear. Turbo's in a weird middle ground where it eats loads of coal/sulphur for not much in return.

[fierce ruin]

with nuclear, dont you have a first few using uranium and then turn their waste into the subsequent fuels?

and __th____en feed that fuel into more nuclear

[crimson moat]

you can, but you can make 630gw on uranium

[fierce ruin]

god damn

[opaque quartz]

You can also just store the uranium waste rather than processing it if you really want. A big stack of ISCs on some corner of the map

[wanton basin]

Me putting it smack dab in the middle of my nuclear sites

[wind spade]

@digital root for the alt recipes:

1. do not ask questions in #screenshots , we can't reply there
2. there's no "good" or "bad" recipes, all are useful in certain scenarios. If you like some, get those and use them. If you don't like any, don't pick them and keep them for future. If you don't know, flip a coin and pick one, you can get them all anyway.

[remote flame]

So this is a late reply but it depends what you want when you say 'good':

If you want it to all fit inside a Blueprinter (no stack mods, etc), is Clean & Compact , has a moderate concern to resource consumption (some alt recipes to help improve how many resources in to HMF's out), then I personally have used this design https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=66waoKweqpS1GZtnUGpr . Now just because I use it doesn't mean there are dozens of other ways to achieve the same thing better, just the way I approached it for this particular BP 🙂

It keeps the amount of machines low all things considered. I have a screenshot of my current BP using that entire setup but with heavy powersharding to reduce the overall size further, so I produce 125% worth of materials to drive a manufacturer with the Alt: Heavy Encased Frame. Two blueprints chained together (has an input/output manifold that can be chained across BP's) = 1x 250% Manufacturer, so an incredibly small footprint build for 7.03125 HMF's/min. (Manufacturer gets put at the end of a 'line' of BPs manually). If I lowered the clocking down to 50% materials for a manufacturer (no powershards), I'd need 5 blueprints chained together to make 1x250% Manufacturer. Still small even then to be honest..

But this is certainly not 'good' for the lowest resource consumption nor power consumption, purely just in a regard to space, # of Machines, and ability to fit in a blueprinter very comfortably. Without the decor/railing I can jam that thing in a Mk2. Blueprinter comfortably w. no extra verticality needed

[civic bronze]

designed great factory for my current tier of belts, all 480/min (i will just sloop one smelter to not need 500)🥹 now time to build it (yes i need it, at least 25/min framework for continous elevator mod)
btw what do you think about this way of planning? i mean i put 7.5 reinforced plate in the input to make use of the iron node whole node and sink it, might as well get some points

i mean when im gonna use a node, i wont bother coming back to split like 100 ore/min from it

[outer vale]

in that particular case, why not just make fewer RIPs to cut your iron usage

[civic bronze]

no matter the alts i can't cut it down to one iron node

[outer vale]

instead of using 980 ingots and having to sloop, just cut the RIPs down to only use 960

[vapid gorge]

what's your belt speed atm?

[civic bronze]

mk4 480

[civic bronze]

yeah i could do it tbh

[vapid gorge]

that would be tough. But pure iron ingot + changing the bolted recipes

[outer vale]

you could also consider solid steel

[vapid gorge]

ah yeah that too.

might get it to 480

[remote flame]

The way you planned it works great for what you have at hand, so I reckon you've done awesome!
Sure there are always other ways of making the same products for less input materials, but you've got a simple factory design/layout that works!

Personally with what Cobalt just said, with the Pure iron ingot recipe I reckon you could definitely get it within 480 Iron, 480 Coal, <300 Water, but at the great expense of factory room (bulky damn pure ingot recipes!) 🙂

[outer vale]

yeah, it's a reasonable plan as-is I'd say

[vapid gorge]

oh and Iron wire + Stiched Plate

all those changes should get it down a LOT

[remote flame]

This doesn't include iron wire & Stitched, but still meets your requirements if you wanted! ( Let's just call that 480 iron in ay lol )

[outer vale]

how's the difference in power consumption 😛

[civic bronze]

daaamn whaat, half the iron and no limestone for same output

[remote flame]

Terrible, hook line and sinker lol

[vapid gorge]

got a link for that?

[outer vale]

guessing the main tradeoffs here are a large increase in space and power

was gonna say water but the original used wet concrete

[remote flame]

oh sorry yep! have a play with it 🙂 https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=r2eIVHO8McW2AWIQwQ07

[remote flame]

Like Meindratheal mentioned above, the giant downside to this different approach is how physically large the factory has to be and the power consumption (I think almost triple)
if you play around with the output of R.I.P , you could get some nice clocking numbers to work with if preferred. I think 6.666 RIP's/min will make everything pretty much bang on except the Pure Iron Ingot refineries 🙂

[civic bronze]

you guys are crazy the way you can analyze so many trade offs of different alts, takes me 5x the time in the planner itself

[outer vale]

not too much analysis on my side tbh, I know pure recipes are chonkers for both power and space

if it feels like you're getting something for ~free then the cost is probably space, power, or both

[civic bronze]

but yeah water and space is basicly free 😄

[outer vale]

ah, and building count (which usually implies space)

[remote flame]

So this was the best I could do without using more iron or any limestone, 14.43 RIP (that actually is 480 iron ore/min in then) w. iron wire and stitched iron plate rather than the Cast Screw/Iron Pipe/Steeled Frame method 🙂
Satisfactory is a sandbox of endless creativity and potential ways to do things! Alt recipes really open up an incredibly large variety of options. Some have tradeoffs some don't like, others can be hands down loved by all, but choosing the ones that work for you always matters most! I'd still say your original design is fairly elegant and simple, but using tools like this really can find the best ways to tweak it up

[civic bronze]

im speechless, im definietly gonna use solid steel ingot > steel beam instead of my steel ingot > molded beam that just cuts down whole limestone, and leaves everything the same

[civic bronze]

i swear i was tweaking different alts trying to cut down to just one iron node but couldn't do it, you just did it, and made more output with it

think i skipped over pure iron ingot subconsciously, guess im a sucker for even numbers 😂

[outer vale]

personally I probably wouldn't have used any of the refinery alts for this production line since they feel a lil heavyweight for what would otherwise be a pretty simple factory.
but can't deny their effectiveness at reducing ore costs

for bigger factories I do overuse those alts

[civic bronze]

i feel like its something you grow out of evetually in SF, every newer players tries to keep numbers clean and then after playing so long you just dont care and know it doesn't matter and the important thing is you use way less material

[vapid gorge]

meh, alloy recipes are great and saves yo ua ton of nonsense

[safe gorge]

i can't find the blueprint , how do i download the file?

[opaque quartz]

This comes with experience. The more you play with different recipes, the more you get a sense of their strengths and weaknesses and applicability

[opaque quartz]

Build it yourself. The planner output tells you what you need 😊

My second playthrough I deliberately tried to use different recipes than I did the first time around just to see how well they worked

[civic bronze]

on your first you only used standard recipes?

[opaque quartz]

Nah I was using alts even in my first playthrough, but not until later in that game once I understood how they worked

In my second playthrough, my entire electronics factory (crystal oscillators, AI limiters, HSCs, RCUs) I did without any plastic or rubber, using the silicone and caterium alts

I could have easily supplied the oil-based products there by adding another train platform but didn’t want to deal with it 😬

[civic bronze]

haha, personally i love electrode circuit board

[opaque quartz]

Yeah it’s good too. I wasn’t producing pet coke anywhere tho

Didn’t touch electrode scrap until the very end game in my trigon factory that I built on the Gold Coast oil islands

[wind spade]

"clean numbers" are very arbitrary 🤷 basically pointless to focus on

[civic bronze]

I mean i know that, yet brain see full number brain happy

[wind spade]

change time unit and number is no longer clean

(or is suddenly clean)

[civic bronze]

Hmm never thought about it that way

3.333 / 1min becomes 1 / 3.333min or 10 / 3min

[wind spade]

exactly

[civic bronze]

Wait what i did something wrong 1 / 3.333 cant be = as 10 / 3, what

Im too sleepy for this

But yeah good point of view, thanks greeny

[wind spade]

well yeah I didn't check the math but the concept is clear 🙂

[civic bronze]

Its bc 3.333 / 1min is not 1 / 3.333min but 1 / 0.333min

I think xd

[outer vale]

close

[civic bronze]

0.444?

[outer vale]

you have a calculator 😛

[civic bronze]

I dont even know how to get make an equation

[opaque quartz]

Press N in game for the Nalculator

[civic bronze]

3.333/1 min = 10/3min = 1/0.3min = 🧠

2.5/1min = 10/4min = 1/0.4 min

1.667/1min = 1/0.6min

1.111/1min = 1/0.9min

7.1423/1min = 5/0.7min

Huh

[civic bronze]

#screenshots message @torpid briar hey if that makes u feel better your belt carries 1675 items / 13min

[rigid harbor]

do dimensional depots stack in terms of upload rate?

[outer vale]

yes, they each upload at full rate

[rigid harbor]

baller haha

[rigid harbor]

i now have it set up that i physically cant out pace the replenishment of my concrete

[sand epoch]

Clearly you need to build bigger with zoop. Have 5 depots filling at max and still drain it in minutes.

[deep hornet]

Jealous!

[safe gorge]

why aren't the top items going into the bottom storage?

[vapid gorge]

because you're feeding the bottom to the top

[smoky aurora]

u need to attach a belt?!

ah didnt see behind the dasher

[smoky aurora]

this is the outgoing end ,...

[safe gorge]

yeah , my bad , but it doesn't work in the blueprint designer also ... is that intended?

[vapid gorge]

wdym it doesn't work in the designer? it's built wrong

you need it like this

[sharp hamlet]

Yes, very possible. 24x depot for my concrete. 240 x 24 = 5760 per min

[rigid harbor]

I have 10 max depots filling haha, I can’t even use up all the concrete if I’m using my 400 concrete blueprint for my railway

[rigid harbor]

Beutiful

[dry fern]

I assume this chat okay with asking questions cause I just started playing last week and I cant seem to find anything to help with the oil power plant I want to make.

[rigid harbor]

What do ya need help with?

[dry fern]

I just got to oil refinement last night. I mainly need help figuring out how much fuel/m I should be making and how much packaged fuel for my jetpack I should be making. I'll also be making rubber and plastic here, I was wanting to use the Heavy Oil Residue Alt, and the Diluted Fuel Alt. The spot I'm at can produce 1500 oil/m if everything is maxed out overclocked which is what I kinda want to do.

I struggle with liquids in this game

[sharp hamlet]

Don't try and do everything at once, or try and be perfect out of the gate. It's ok to destroy entire plant set ups and rebuild later.

where is 1500ppm oil you're using? West coast?

[outer vale]

how much fuel really depends on how much power you want to make

[dry fern]

I think it's called the golden coast?

It's a small group of islands south of the rocky desert

[outer vale]

you won't need much at all for a jetpack, it just doesn't burn fast enough even if you're using it all the time to need more than a few packages a minute

[dry fern]

That's good to know cause it devours the solid biofuel I've been using

[sharp hamlet]

Here ?

[dry fern]

I'm also not solo, I'm playing with a friend. We're both brand new. I was thinking something like 60-80 packaged fuel/m should be fine

[dry fern]

Yeah

[sharp hamlet]

oops, wrong image

[dry fern]

That's the spot, I can only use a few of the spots since I don't have the fracking machine yet. I have 2 pure and one normal spot.

[sharp hamlet]

The Satisfactory Modeler is great for this, I can try and put something together rq

[dry fern]

I've been playing around with Satisfactory Tools, it's helped with a lot of stuff

[outer vale]

Tools is a good one, highly recommend

Modeler is like Marmite

[sharp hamlet]

Tools is ok also

[wind spade]

as a kinda biased person, I don't really like Modeller tbh

[dry fern]

Modeler was a little confusing for me, which is why I opted to tools

[livid turret]

Instead of solid or regular fuel try liquid biofuel.

It's the same strength of regular fuel but last way longer and you definitely don't need much of it, a container linked to a dimensional depot is more that enough

[delicate night]

what the best recipes for bauxite

[outer vale]

"best" is relative

[livid turret]

Best depend on what you want to achieve

[dusky dust]

There's no "best" unless you define a very specific metric which you want to optimize for

I've got like six aluminum-processing areas on my 1.0 save and I think I'm using four different recipe chains between 'em

[delicate night]

idk i just got all of it and i have not pland what to do next

[outer vale]

for the main recipes there's a sliding scale of how much quartz you want to use vs how much aluminium you get per bauxite

[dusky dust]

If you want the most Aluminum Ingots out of the least amount of Bauxite, then there's only a couple of options for the chain you take

[outer vale]

then there's instant scrap in its own lil bubble

[livid turret]

But assuming you are starting with bauxite, sloppy alumina and pure aluminum ingot will reduce complexity to bauxite, water and coal

[dusky dust]

But few people are gonna legitimately run out of Bauxite, so optimizing for that is rarely actually necessary

[delicate night]

ok thanks

[outer vale]

and the tradeoff there is, less quartz used means less aluminium out

[delicate night]

that why i got it all cus i know its a rare thing

[dusky dust]

Honestly unless you're very specifically trying to max out a resource in the game, very few people are ever gonna even approach exhausting a resource

[wind spade]

pick a recipe you like, use it. Or check all the recipes you have and decide what you like the most

[delicate night]

o

[dusky dust]

The only real exception (IMO) is possibly SAM, and only for folks who decide to do the Ficsonium nuclear chain

[dry fern]

I thought about that, the only part of that I don't like is the feeding the bio matter to get the process going. I'd much rather just package fuel and let it build up and sink the overflow to avoid the plant shutting off.

[dusky dust]

On my 1.0 save, where I had those six separate aluminum chains and had automated literally everything in the game, I'm only using 33% of the bauxite on the map

[delicate night]

o cus im 50/50 if i want to do the new Ficsonium nuclear chain but thank for the help

[livid turret]

Believe me, you don't use that much and a container or industrial container goes a long way, plus you can sloop every step of the chain if you want to generate a lot of fuel from a piece of meat for example

[dusky dust]

IMO Ficsonium is quite fun to build out, though it's quite optional. The main challenge there really is just the SAM; it eats a lot, and the available SAM on the map puts a pretty tight cap on how much Ficsonium you can produce

[sharp hamlet]

Optimized Refinery Setup for 1500 Oil/min

Goals:
✔ Maximize power using Diluted Fuel
✔ Ensure excess Polymer Resin is processed into Plastic/Rubber
✔ Create Packaged Fuel for the Jetpack

Step 1: Heavy Oil Residue Production (Alt Recipe):

For 1500 Oil/min, you’ll need:
50 Refineries (1500 Oil/min → 2000 Heavy Oil Residue + 1000 Polymer Resin)

Step 2: Convert Heavy Oil Residue to Diluted Fuel (Alt Recipe):

For 2000 Heavy Oil Residue, you’ll need:
40 Refineries (2000 Heavy Oil Residue + 4000 Water → 4000 Fuel/min)

Step 3: Power Generation
4000 Fuel/min → (4000 ÷ 20) = 200 Fuel Generators
Power Output: 200 × 250 MW = 50,000 MW

Step 4: Handling the Polymer Resin

Polymer Resin is a byproduct of Heavy Oil Residue, and it must be processed to avoid clogging the system.
Options:

Residual Plastic (Alt Recipe)
    60 Polymer Resin + 20 Water → 20 Plastic (Refinery)
Residual Rubber (Alt Recipe)
    40 Polymer Resin + 40 Water → 20 Rubber (Refinery)

For 1000 Polymer Resin/min, you can do:

16.67 Refineries → 333.3 Plastic/min
25 Refineries → 500 Rubber/min

OR a mix, depending on need.
Step 5: Packaged Fuel for Jetpack

Take a small portion of Fuel (e.g., 60 Fuel/min) and send it to a Packager:

1 Fuel + 1 Empty Canister → 1 Packaged Fuel
Requires 1 Packager per 40 Fuel/min (So 2 Packagers should be plenty)

Empty Canisters are made from Plastic or can be recovered by unpacking fuel later.
Final Summary

50 Refineries (Heavy Oil Residue) → 2000 Heavy Oil Residue + 1000 Polymer Resin
40 Refineries (Diluted Fuel) → 4000 Fuel
200 Fuel Generators → 50,000 MW Power
Plastic/Rubber Production from 1000 Polymer Resin
2 Packagers for Jetpack Fuel

[delicate night]

ok thanks a lot

[dry fern]

I didn't even think about sloops

[sharp hamlet]

don't forget to dump 100% of the plastic and rubber into a SINK, simply peel off what you are able to use or need to use, else it will clog the system and shutdown your power gen

you can also dump 100% of the poly resin, then add the plastic/rubber later - to get your power gen up and running asap

[dry fern]

Beautiful. I appreciate the help, I'm also going to play around with the biofuel thing too just to have something while the fuel plant boots up.

[neon pollen]

Not sure if this qualifies as "math and meta", but here goes:

How much storage is typically neccessary for a main hub? In my save, we have a big warehouse that has 3 of the double-stacked containers for each resource. Will this be enough in the late-game?

[dusky dust]

The meta nowadays, if you can call it that, is to lean on Dimensional Depots

[wind spade]

technically 0 if you do dimensional depots

[outer vale]

assuming this is purely for build gun use, depends on the item. Most things, one crate's probably fine, you're not building a billion train signals in quick succession for example, but you might need tons of concrete

[dusky dust]

Once you have them fully upgraded they do basically completely replace any kind of "local" storage

For some resources (like concrete) you'll end up wanting more than one uploader for the resource

In terms of local storage, though, two ISCs should be more than enough for basically any storage system you manually withdraw from. For nearly all items, you'd only really need 1

(assuming that you're replenishing them at a constant rate, anyway)

[outer vale]

the typical Satisfactory Discord experience, 3 somewhat conflicting answers 😁
welcome to "it's up to you really" world

[neon pollen]

I only want to use those for the primary building materials: concrete, plates, rods, and the like.

I like the idea have having a central hub that things get delivered to via truck and/or train. The traffic looks pretty.

How "big" are those depots? How much can they hold?

[dusky dust]

There are enough Spheres on the map to build ~200 Depots after fully-upgrading the system, btw. You can definitely use them for literally every item in the game without too much trouble (though admittedly it's a nontrivial amount of work to collect all the spheres)

The Depot uploaders are basically the same size as a regular Storage Container

The "cloud" storage that the Depot uploaders send items to depends on how far you've upgraded it in terms of capacity. The max capacity is five stacks of each item. (It starts out at just 1 stack, I assume?) Upload speed per Dimensional Depot likewise depends on how far you've upgraded it. Default is 15/min, upgradeable to 240/min. Remember that if you can have more than one uploader for the same material, so like at max upgrades, if you have four Concrete uploaders set up, your Concrete in the depot cloud will replenish at 960/min.

[neon pollen]

So, the actual storage capacity is up to 5 stacks per depot, or 5 stacks per item across the entire network?

Like I said, I want to limit myself to only using these for the primary building blocks (those mostly used for road and rail building). To build factories across the map, I'll load a truck or train with the rest of the required resources (plastics, AI limiters, rotors, etc) and ship them to the site for use.

I know, that's not very "meta", but I like the logistics and transport side of things. With that, I'll have a physical warehouse. It is currently 3 double containers per item, and the building is tall enough for 5 of them to be stacked. I am wondering if my building is too tall, or if I need to add more to reach the top, or if I need to go higher.

By the sounds of it, people using these depots might actually have fewer items available at any time than mine has capacity for.

At the end of the day, I'm sure my current warehouse is "big enough", but I figured I'd might as well check if it needs to be bigger before I build the roof.

[dusky dust]

5 stacks per item across the entire network. Each Dimensional Depot you build is just kind of an intake machine for the cloud storage as a whole

What's generally done with Depots is to have storage containers in front of the Depots providing the replenishment "pressure"

Someone making heavy use of Depots might have as much material as you available to the Depot, but yes, the replenishment is indeed limited by the upload speed of the DD, times number of DDs you have set up for that item

Like on my save I ended up with six DDs for Concrete, so I could use concrete at 1440/min before outstripping what the depot could give me

(Which, admittedly, with some largeish blueprints I was able to do, when building out my nuclear power. Though I never had to wait for more than like 10 seconds to get building again)

I enjoy building Central Storage too (I maintained one all throughout my 1.0 save), but I admit that by the time I hit Phase 4 I literally never had to take anything manually out of it

[neon pollen]

Huh. Alright, so I think I'll settle for my tripple-stacked double containers, then. I'll eventually link some to dimensional depots as needed. Thanks.

[opaque quartz]

You should read up more on how the dimensional depots work. They are a game changer (literally)

!wikisearch dimensional+depot

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=dimensional+depot

[dusky wren]

can anyone explain why my mk2 pipes stops when it get 600m3/s? Its between oil extractors (input 600m3/min) and refineries (consume 2,5x set of 240m3/s), i build enough of pumps and even buffer

[dusky dust]

The usual advice I give out for folks looking to send 600/min via pipes (which can also help out with pipe problems even before that point):

1. Keep the system as simple and short as possible.
2. Loop your manifolds (so: the input goes into both sides of the machines you're feeding)
3. Feed fluid from above, so gravity does part of the work for you
   4a. Avoid valves entirely (they've been improved for 1.0, so this one might not be as important, but you still don't actually need valves)
   4b. Avoid fluid buffers entirely (except as buffers for train lines, where they are rather necessary)
4. Prefill your pipes! Full pipes are happy pipes. Wait until the system's thoroughly saturated before turning machines on.
5. Place junctions before pipes. If you do snap junctions onto pipes, dismantle and rebuild the pipes afterwards.

See #screenshots message for an example of 2+3 specifically.

600/min in particular can be pretty fiddly; none of that advice is always required, but it often helps, and can be a simple It Just Works™ type implementation.

[wind spade]

fluid in pipes reaches dead end (either end of pipe or a full machine), and bounce back. If that happens on a manifold side pipe, the bounced-back-flow comes to the junction and some of it flows back to input, reducing it from 600 to less-than-600

[dusky wren]

oooo thanks for this advices

thats my first time building anything big scale

[dusky dust]

I suppose one other thing to mention: even when following all that advice, some folks do still encounter problems. Little variants in how people build can lead to discrepancies and such, and it's possible that there's other factors as well

So don't feel too bad if that's not a magic bullet for you. In my experience it works most of the time, though

[glacial dawn]

Please help me choose, also, what does rescan do?

[wind spade]

if you don't know, flip a coin

[dusky dust]

(and "rescan" will give you a different two options)

[glacial dawn]

Aha, is the iron plate a good option?

[wind spade]

there's more drives than recipes, and all recipes have their advantages and disadvantages, so it's purely up to you

[glacial dawn]

But do you use this/like it?

[wind spade]

depends on situation 🤷

it costs slightly more screws per plate, but has faster production rate, so you need less assemblers to make same amount of plates, basically trading resource efficiency for space/power efficiency

whether you like that or not is up to you

[glacial dawn]

Does have the multiple of cast screws so that’s great

[wind spade]

multiple?

[glacial dawn]

Cast screws is 50/min, this needs 250/min

As in 5 constructors of cast will make this for you

[wind spade]

I mean you can clock machines to make the amount you need, so that's hardly an issue

[vapid gorge]

there are other screw recipes as well that make screws faster

[dry fern]

So I just realized something, how are you mixing the water and oil to make fuel without packaging the water first? Would this require the blender?

[vapid gorge]

the image from the terrible planner shows a blender

[vapid gorge]

a better planner https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=ZjOKvY8r23CY0Q5JHjuN

[dry fern]

That's rough, I don't have it yet and the plastic output wouldn't be enough to make enough packages. Guess I'll have to unlock it or find a way to get 4000 empty canisters for the 4000 water

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=Q3nlikfJ6waDjoKe83sS then do a quick recipe swap

[dry fern]

oooooooh wait, nvm I'm so dumb. The packages come from the unpackaged fuel.

[dusky dust]

You do need to seed the system with empty canisters, of course, so it'll help to have a stockpile built up for that

[vapid gorge]

you make a few packages at the start, adn then loop them

[dusky dust]

Keep in mind that you can fit a "closed" 2x Packager + 1x Refinery loop in a single 4x4 blueprint, and the blueprint can even include the empty packages inside the input buffer

So it becomes a little mini-blender, basically

[wind spade]

also the loop is 1:1:1, so easy blueprint (including the pre-filled canisters)

[vapid gorge]

I recommend 1 packager -> refinery -> unpackager -> back to start

keeps it simple

[dusky dust]

You should only need like 20-30 empty packages inside the buffer, I think, which could cut back on how many you need to build it out that big

[dry fern]

I'll try to figure that out, I am brand new to the game. I just started last week.

[dusky dust]

(I generally just have a full stack in my blueprints for that, but that's a bit overkill)

[rich arrow]

is this something valuable

should i keep it or sink it

im early mid game

oh theres a wiki page it says the sink points

[dusky dust]

It's a resource you'll eventually automate. I don't remember if any crash sites require FMFs to open, but you could hang onto it for that purpose, if you want

Otherwise sink 'em

[viral sparrow]

there is somewhere yeah

[rigid harbor]

I am completely as how to setup signals in this area...

might of got it

[vapid gorge]

I'd be worried the 'storage' could be read as the shortest path and block traffic

[rigid harbor]

oh yeah i didint think about that

[vapid gorge]

if it's just for looks just don't connect both ends

[rigid harbor]

yeah you were right :(

[vapid gorge]

either alter the shape and length so it's objectively longer, or just don't connect both ends 🙂

no big deal either way

[rigid harbor]

i just liked how it looked :(

[fallow siren]

as long as u dont connect the rail its fine

[vapid gorge]

still looks good. I've seen some people do interesting things with pillar feet sideways to make it look like a proper train stop thing

[rigid harbor]

ill see if i can find an example, thank you :)

[vapid gorge]

not the best one I've seen but the only one in my folder of it

[rigid harbor]

i am definitly going to try to mimic the look of that!

[rigid harbor]

i got a hitchhiker

[fast fog]

keeps saying station unreachable,even tho when i switch manual i can drive up,any help?

[rigid harbor]

@vapid gorge Made one :)

[vapid gorge]

maybe end the rail in some pillars or beams, something to make it not so abrubt?

[safe gorge]

i have a 3.5 item/M input line , i want to split it to one 1 item/M output and another 2.5 item/M output
how do i get that ratio?

[vapid gorge]

kidna hard to tell, do you have 2 engines? 1 facing each way?

[rigid harbor]

not too sure what you mean

[vapid gorge]

or maybe end the rail a bit sooner so it's in the buffer thing

[vapid gorge]

a top down view would be good, can't really see how the train is going in

[rigid harbor]

if i am aiming for realism, i was thinking that this is a sliding buffer

[fast fog]

wydm top down?

[vapid gorge]

look at it from higher up, and then look down, to see the actual paths

[fast fog]

like this?

[vapid gorge]

I didn't know that was a thing 🙂

[fast fog]

no the thing is if i switch to manual i can drive up

but it wont auto go therr

[vapid gorge]

yes, it sounds like you have an issue

and that image is from the side.

[vapid gorge]

go above the rails, look down, take an image

[fast fog]

alright

[vapid gorge]

build foundations if you have to

or ladders

[rigid harbor]

i am a huge city nerd so i know so much useless stuff that kinda relates to cities haha

[fast fog]

the tree kinda blocks it

[vapid gorge]

up more, or draw a diagram

[fast fog]

wait someone found the issue in #satisfactory

[rigid harbor]

ooh ooh! or use the satisfactory map

[fast fog]

it seems my train station is facing the wrong way

and it is

[vapid gorge]

well I did ask if you had an engine facing each way

[rigid harbor]

oh haha

[vapid gorge]

but yeah that's a common issue

[fast fog]

oh mb,ty for the help

[vapid gorge]

no stress

[rigid harbor]

i love looking at these maps haha

[safe gorge]

?

[fallow siren]

try cartography mod, it allows you to see the factory from ingame map like scim