math-and-meta

[prisma kraken]

i'm not trying to be a truck-hating flamebaiter with that. Vehicles in the game are pretty finicky. If you use them extensively, you're going to end up having to re-record a lot of routes as you move stuff and build new stuff

the truck sucks to drive, and having to re-record loops with them is something i really dislike doing

past a certain point if you have a lot of vehicle routes that cross, they all start to get kind of wonky and you need to start moving the routes around to keep them from 'deadlocking'

[vocal ferry]

i tend to agree with moonchild. first 1.0 complete playthru i used mostly tractors, maybe 1 truck, trains only for fuel power. second only trucks. it feels like tractors are the only vehicles they invested a lot of time in getting right after the physics change.

[prisma kraken]

the fact that the tractor is smaller and has a smaller collision box makes that problem much less common

[prisma kraken]

did you ever drive the pre-update8 truck?

it actually is much better than it was, lol

[vocal ferry]

not much. but i did the explorer, which is comparatively awful now

[prisma kraken]

yeah, its a shame

improvement over the u8 version of it, but the old explorer was actually nice to drive

[vocal ferry]

that and it sounded way better

[prisma kraken]

still if i were picking up the game today with fresh eyes, i probably wouldn't think the explorer bad

[vocal ferry]

probably. the camera still does freak out if you go down too steep an incline last i tried

[prisma kraken]

yeah, vehicle handling is just something that CSS didn't feel was worth spending more time to tune

[vocal ferry]

explorer is impossible to back up on a decent incline. just rockford turns into flips over and over. i end up deconstructin git.

anyway, maybe wrong chan for my explorer complaints

[prisma kraken]

i find it kind of a shame... I'd really like to get some complex delivery routes going with vehicles (especially in dune desert), but whenever you try getting fancy, everything starts derping out on you

i did a no-train playthrough back in update 7

gotta say, by the time i got to phase 4, most tractors were replaced by drones

[vocal ferry]

i use vehicles mostly for my unlock base. trains mainly for max consistency of fuel ingredients for power. i found drones annoying to fuel. but it just depends on where you source your mats

[prisma kraken]

drones are great for what they are good for

[north mauve]

WELL

I am producing 1/10 the amount of waste I need because I thought it was 50/min not 10/min

[prisma kraken]

atm, i'm using them a lot running on yellow fuel

i'll make a battery factory at some point when i have some more plastic built, but they're actually handling things pretty well with yellow fuel right now

[vocal ferry]

might have to try that depending on needed throughput. diluted fuel setups are old hat by now

i've never actually used drones in my production chain. sad really.

[prisma kraken]

they're very good whenever you need to move small volumes of something elsewhere and then retrieve what got made

what they were really designed to solve is moving packaged nitrogen and returning the empties

[leaden cosmos]

That is usually a good problem to have 🙂

[north mauve]

I spent ~10hrs setting up uranium fuel rods, and another ~10hrs making it all look pretty

I think I spent 80 hours on the u waste facility making plut rods and making it all look pretty

And I have nowhere near the right amount of waste to utilize it

[leaden cosmos]

So now you get to make 4 more reactor areas 🙂

[north mauve]

And it's not that I don't just have the waste, I don't have enough production of uranium fuel rods to feed more plants, not enough encased uranium cells for more fuel rods, etc

[leaden cosmos]

Or a second with shards

Ah ok.

[frosty owl]

Duplication issues were fixed before U7 of not U6.
A new duplication possibility was introduced in 1.0 by welding belts, but they patched that too

You can

Still, I think that's a nice analogy: there's a certain thrill specific to driving without a seatbelt on, kind of like rock-climbing without a rope ^^
There's not any special advantage not using safety equipment, but it CAN make the experience feel vastly different

For sure, it's one of those "very strongly recommended, but not truly the only way to deal with the issue"

I hear there's some who managed to build even some nuclear sushi without relying on any sinks...

[prisma kraken]

sounds like someone knows their sushi

isn't about having a sink, it's guaranteeing that a belt never stops moving

[frosty owl]

That's a good way to word it

[prisma kraken]

well, that's it in a nutshell 🙂

i spent a bit of time playing DSP while we were waiting for 1.0 since i didn't want to start a new save.

they do sushi there without a sink

[frosty owl]

You traitor
||I tried the F word...||

[prisma kraken]

haha

nah, i just didn't want to sink time into a new world to have it upended before i got anywhere

[frosty owl]

BTW, what's your own "building/playthrough objective"?

[prisma kraken]

wdym?

mine personally? atm, i'm feeling like doing max nuclear if my puter can handle it

[frosty owl]

I've seen (well, read about) you building and planning big, but I'm missing the objective (max coupon, max nuclear, ma something....?)

[prisma kraken]

this is pretty much what i'm targetting

it changes almost daily, so don't hold me to anything, but ballpark of what i'm looking to build is that

more of what i'm doing is trying to utilize as few mineral nodes as i can to get to a reasonably big target with a max-ish nuclear build in it all

[vast jungle]

I am slowly coming out of a (recursive) "oh need to deal with this issue first" chain... damn, sometimes its difficult to find what you have been working on 😄

Want to make 1.5 Nuclear Pasta/min...

[sharp verge]

dont ask me why its like this cuz i didnt builed the frist part but, will this work as a load balancer? 360 through all pipes except from the one splitting which is 160 so hopefully 400 on each output, right?

never really mess with fluids so i dont really know what im doing

[past reef]

fluids don't behave like pipe, junction will not divide evenly

[wind spade]

fluids don't work like that and can't (and shouldn't) be load balanced

if you have X in pipe, hook it to machines that need X

don't try to balance anything

simplest way to do pipes 🙂

[sharp verge]

the thing is, i need 4 400 output and the guy that build the 5 pipes are just dumb or something. is there any way to balance it?

[wind spade]

why do you need 400 output?

[sharp verge]

8 blenders, 200 each

so 4 pipes for transport

[wind spade]

clock the blenders to 180

then you have 2 blenders = 360 = 1 pipe

[sharp verge]

that would make things worse honestly. its 1600 fuel total going into making rocket fuel and it maths to 8.88888... blenders

is there really no good way of load balancing fluids?

[wind spade]

no, because fluids flow in both directions

[analog meteor]

cant you jsut make 1 giant "manifold (it barely is)" and just connect the 5 pipes on some of the jucntions evenly

[wind spade]

you can, but generally it's better to keep pipe systems separate for best chance of working

[analog meteor]

ok. noted

[wind spade]

no, 8 blenders at 90% + 1 at 80%

4 pairs taking the 4 360 pipes and the last one taking the 160 pipe at 80% clock speed

[analog meteor]

for coal i just shoved a water line from the side of the coal generator manifold 1 on eaither side and ssmth like every 4 generators input anoitehr pipe to ignore all the confusion

it worked is what im trying to say

[wind spade]

coal is way smaller fluid numbers

and yeah, pretty much anything can work, but I'm trying to recommend the way that has highest chance of working out

[analog meteor]

ok i agree with your idea. im just too lazy to think about fluids and think every issue is a bug

[wind spade]

there's pretty much no "bug" with fluids

[analog meteor]

like the opposite of that meme of- game devs "its not a bug, its a feature"
me when fluid problem "its a bug not a feature"

(dont follow that idea)

[latent seal]

this morning will be a good morning, machine audit morning

how much iron am i actually eating nowadays

this is hard to figure out, beacause im using solid steel ingots

it looks like the ratio for solid steel ingots is 2/3?

[limpid urchin]

Does the silicia produced when making alumina solution produce enough for the ingots?

[wet python]

afaik, no

[vapid gorge]

why is it hard? keep notes on what you're making

[limpid urchin]

hmm so should I just use sloppy alumina and and pure aluminum ingots?

to cut out silica completly

[vapid gorge]

that's a common practice yes

unless you want to import more silica

[limpid urchin]

Nah the nearest quartz node is like 3 continents away

[wet python]

unless you really need to have more aluminum with less bauxite, yes.

[vapid gorge]

you can always move the bauxite somewhere else. You'll need to eventually anyway

The Electrode Scrap recipe can also be very convenient

as you need very little oil for mass quantities of bauxite

[limpid urchin]

Yeah my bauxite is right next to my oil

I didnt get that recipe after like 15 hard drives so I gotta go back to hunting i guess

[wet python]

indeed, an impure oil patch will do like 3000 bauxite/m

[limpid urchin]

I have a whole unused pure one👍

So that should be fine

or i can setup the resource wells

[wet python]

yeah, 10:1 bauxite:oil

[limpid urchin]

Wait what's that? I've been calculating everything by hand😭

[wet python]

lol, there are lots of online calculators

this one is SF Tools

[bronze barn]

They're linked in #welcome

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[wet python]

in this specific factory, i've actually built 16 sloppy alumina refineries, but underclocked them so that 1 in every 4 was fed with water from extractor and the other 3 got water from a group of 4 electrode scrap refineries

iirc the one was 90% and the other 3 70%

I wasn't in the mood of doing VIP junctions

[bronze barn]

That sounds about right. It's also a suggested one as listed on the Alumina solution wiki page -> https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Alumina_Solution#Gallery

Albeit it lists it as 2 at 100 and 1 at 10, but naturally that's the same thing at the end of the day

[limpid urchin]

I'm already at my 58th hard drive and still haven't gotten it This game really really hates me

[eager solar]

keep the analyzed hard drives in your library before picking a recipe

that way the 2 alts of 1 hd will be removed from the next ones' pool

[limpid urchin]

oooo that's smart

[eager solar]

it's a well-known trick

[limpid urchin]

Before today I've been playing this game completely blind without any internet help

[eager solar]

congrats

[jovial wyvern]

And now that you know that trick, Yobama, your next hard drive will give you the recipe you're looking for. 😁

[limpid urchin]

Nah I deeply regret it

So much time wasted calculating stuff by hand and other rookie mistakes

[eager solar]

don't worry, you would have messed up even with the tools

but I do have to admit my fondness for the calculator

[limpid urchin]

It worked thanks

[eager solar]

You're welcome

[honest wren]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[sharp verge]

144000MW, here we come

[amber umbra]

The clipping, my eyes

[sharp verge]

it is worth it for the power

[amber umbra]

This style rotated, raised junctions is how I de-clip blender inputs. 4 m offset horizontally for the vertical junction relative to lower pipe.

[limpid urchin]

Farmor's looks cleaner to me

[sharp verge]

i di that once for a production but it takes too much time and im lazy

i enjoy making things look good but pipes i hate

[amber umbra]

Fair enough. I'm fine with clipping belts on a single plane for the time saving also.

If you blueprint the verticated pipeline junction it speeds it up a lot. Otherwise I wouldn't bother.

[limpid urchin]

Looking at my factory would probably kill you

[sharp verge]

send. now

this was my first 1.0 run btw so no pressure

[limpid urchin]

And don't even get me started on my first few factories

[sharp verge]

beautiful

[limpid urchin]

mmmmmmmmmmmmm

this one has been shut down for everyone's good

My most recent beatiful clipping space saving goodness

[molten lintel]

what if you feed it from below? they look nice

just remember to have enough headlift available for the pipes 🥴

[limpid urchin]

yeah you're right just tuck it under the table and no one has to know

[worldly agate]

Is there an easy way (i.e. in the Calculator site) to find all of your slooped machines? I think I left some in my factory but I can't seem to find where.

[molten lintel]

pretty much

[prisma kraken]

i think they show up in SCIM as colored pink

[compact swan]

I may be a satisfactory player but I still can’t do sales tax

[worldly agate]

Well... If they do it's overwritten by the idle red if they're full... Finally found them in my emergency Concrete supply for my most recent project.

[prisma kraken]

ehh, bummer

[charred lynx]

@slow raft This is the production chain I use for nuclear power.

[slow raft]

Is there an alt without the heat sink?

[charred lynx]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Encased_Plutonium_Cell

You may need to redo the math as of the first plant to figure in the alt.

Shoot! I got the water extractors wrong. That should be 20x, 20x and 10x.

[limpid urchin]

The wiki writes the locomotive to freight car ratio way too complicated

Can i just throw down like 3 locomotives and be done

[river night]

Just go with 1:3 if you want to be save, 1:4 also works with most settings

[limpid urchin]

Okay

[vast jungle]

Finally... now "only" Magnetic Field Generator and Thermal Propulsion Rocket...

[eager solar]

Then you can move on to p5

[vast jungle]

maybe next year with my current speed... I tend to do all kind of things, so it will take time 😄

but I am looking forward to the MK3 Blueprint designer

okay, Magnetic Field Generator looks easy

[magic island]

it used to need batteries but now it's extremely easy

[eager solar]

at least you're smarter than me, I made all p4 in a single factory and am currently doing the same for p5

[vast jungle]

and TPM is only annoying because of the many inputs...

I have all parts of it already automated

just have to check if I finally have a "net plus" of ECRs... my Turbo-Motor factory is quite hungry

[wary rapids]

finish my quiant power plant first time useing the blender to do it.

[vast jungle]

cute little thing... 🙂 but these Diluted Fuel Powerplants are really the nicest to build until you decide to go "mad"

[wary rapids]

i have a few small projects to do before going ham. I found, i will want to depot allot more items to do it.

[vast jungle]

I think I have still one with 8 DPF Refineries somewhere near my oil field...

supplied me all the way to Tier 8 before I went nuts on Rocket Fuel

[eager solar]

I went from coal to turbo (without blenders ), lasted me till nuclear

[vast jungle]

I plan to stay at rocket fuel... I have ~150 GW Power right now, that should be enough

[eager solar]

I have about the same, it will be enough for me

granted, I don't plan to do all of t9 stuff like portals

Just checked, I'm at 125 and I have enough for my plans

[vast jungle]

I have trains, not sure I need portals 😂

[eager solar]

You should have enough for trains with that, I don't know about portals tho, feels like they take a lot of power

And tbh, hypercanons are just too good

[vast jungle]

Never for the hang on cannons

[warm bane]

How feasible would it be to feed the quickwire needed for a large nuclear setup (36 fuel rods/min) by drones ?
If I'm doing the Electromagnetic Control Rods in another facility, I still need 4.5k quickwire/min for the infused uranium cells. Since quickwire has a stack size of 500, drones could be pretty good ?

[amber umbra]

@warm bane You’ll want to run the stack size math. Afaik the ingots are most compressed form for caterium. If you use fused quick wire and pure alts the copper is compressed more as ore. (Haven’t ran the math though)

That said, you can always add more ports, so if you want to drone it you can.

I’m remembering cross map with batteries as like 1.5 stacks/drone. Max of 2 drones per port.

If you’re trying to use 500 stack size items keep in mind loading is limited to 1 belt/port. So you could be belt input limited.

[vast jungle]

Might be better to use a train

[ivory aurora]

Do y'all think it's necessary to have oil nodes dedicated to plastic or rubber? or doing it all via the polymer resin residue i get by making fuel fine?

[ember fractal]

Dedicated

Unless you only need a little bit of plastic rubber for storage and building

[vast jungle]

I am always using diluted fuel for rubber and plastic, keeping the factories separate

[ember fractal]

Then the fuel byproduct is sufficient

[ivory aurora]

Oh then nah im in tier 6 and i need plastic for a bunch of thing

imma just use the normal and impure nodes for that and use pure for fuel

[vast jungle]

I was talking about using fuel and polymer for recycling

[ivory aurora]

that message was directed to me

[brisk smelt]

don't all ingot recipes decompress the ore

oh never mind caterium is different

[ivory aurora]

How to use this oil node?

[charred lynx]

With these two.

[ivory aurora]

Oop i dont have those

[sly fjord]

Its later game thing

[prisma kraken]

yeah, they're mostly for tapping nitrogen, but there's 3 oil wells that the unlock allows you to tap after aluminum

[limpid urchin]

What's the most efficient recipe to go from oil to plastic and rubber?

[neat crest]

Recycled rubber & plastic loop makes 3:1 items from crude oil

and you can adjust the mix of how much plastic: rubber there is to your liking

[brisk smelt]

HOR-Diluted fuel-recycled loop
polymer resin rubber - recycled loop

[neat crest]

I wanna mix ~40p/m stators and 20 rotors on one train car. At what point in the system should I put overflow / sink to make sure there's no problems? Before or after loading it on the train?

[brisk smelt]

just do a loop thing to put exactly that much on a train

play with s, m and belt speeds

[bronze kestrel]

Is it normal, that my manufactor only poops out 4 a time, while it says, 5 a minute ?

[brisk smelt]

yes, because that's exactly what it says...

[bronze kestrel]

Never mind

oh yeah

I saw it as well, i'm an idiot 😄

I had another question as well, but now i'm afraid to ask 🥲

[ivory aurora]

How do dimensional depots work? how do i get the materials out?

Theres only uploaders

[charred lynx]

When you've fed it a material you will get a new inventory in your inventory.

Now you can build "infinitely" without having to run back to a storage container when you run out.

[ivory aurora]

ty

+1 to the things i have to do before i start feeding phase 3

[charred lynx]

(having enough to build a depot for each building material)

[ivory aurora]

+2 things i have to do

[tawdry sun]

having more than 1 on a maaterial also works

i think i have 6 uploading concrete

[limpid urchin]

I really need to upgrade the upload speeds for that stuff

But it's so boring gathering mercer spheres

[fast burrow]

so uhhh i have a roundabout design from this video: https://youtu.be/vRePmqfedgU&t=234 (linked to the timestamp of the roundabout im using), when I build it in my sandbox game it works fine. but when I build it in my friend's multiplayer game... it just says "Too Sharp"
anyone know why this would happen? it only happens on two of the turns in the roundabout

[limpid urchin]

Look at 1:25 in the video

It's about using H

[fast burrow]

I should've clarified, I'm building the actual circle part of the roundabout. I haven't even gotten to connecting the rails yet

[fast burrow]

I'll record it hold on

[fringe seal]

I see, the only thing that is stopping me from making 60 warp drives / min is dark matter residue?

[fast burrow]

okay apparently not. video exceeds the file limit

@limpid urchin its fine everywhere except these two spots

this is as much as i can do

everything past that is too sharp
the entire second half no matter how i connect it says "too sharp"

im just confused atp 😭

[long lance]

What it looks like you're doing is trying to turn the track in less than a 3x3 turn radius which is literally why it says no. Use the foundations to their extent and extend it out a little more so you can make a full circle and split it as necessary

[fast burrow]

this is the same turn used in both the video and my singleplayer world; it ONLY doesnt work in multiplayer

[spiral walrus]

you sure you aren't snapping onto the wrong foundation?

you can't do 90, but you should be able to do 45's

[fast burrow]

yeah, heres a different image for more clarity

this is the exact same turn, just on the other half and it doesnt work

and on the other end of the foundations too-

[long lance]

offset the track to the outside of the foundation, it lets you do that. It's saying too sharp when you're in the middle connecting it.

F, didn't post this with it

i'm saving this as a blueprint for roundabouts now

[fast burrow]

in my sandbox save-

[long lance]

idk how you did that then

[fast burrow]

i literally did it just now lol

[long lance]

sometimes the game allows weird building technique if you fiddle with it enough

[fast burrow]

Ok i added another foundation on every side, but now im more confused, because doing that in my singleplayer world causes it to be too sharp...

BUT IN THE MULTIPLAYER ONE IT MAKES IT STOP SAYING TOO SHARP

alright yknow what im just gonna stop questioning it. this game is weird.

[vapid gorge]

it's likely a very very edge case in the video

and this often happens when trying to push building objects to the limits

[fast burrow]

yeah it defo is an edge case

really weird how it works in one save and not the other

[vapid gorge]

and it's the reason why you shouldn't rely on edge cases

[fast burrow]

lol

[wind spade]

also don't build roundabouts for trains, horrible throughput

[fast burrow]

i am aware theyre less efficient than having an intersection, but roundabouts are cool + idk how tf to make an intersection :D

[wind spade]

just make a normal X junction

[fast burrow]

idk if intersection is the wrong term but ik what you mean

[fast burrow]

What in gods name am I looking at how does this work

[wind spade]

wdym, that's just dual rails connected to all directions

[fast burrow]

this is my first time ever using trains, idk how half of this stuff works thats all 😭
im not judging the build

[fast burrow]

also theres no blocks/paths here, would this not crash somewhere down the line?

[wind spade]

you put paths on entrances and block on exits

[fast burrow]

oh ight

[unborn dome]

Do you typically make a SAM factory for the fluctuators? Or typically only use them as part of other processes?

[unborn dome]

Is this an old pic? Those track switches look different.

[wet python]

just ended the game with about 80GW used if it helps anyone.

could have done with way less, went overboard with some factories

[heavy mica]

would anyone be able to give me a hand balancing the top 4 belts into the bottom 3 belts please?

[vapid gorge]

squish them together have have a mk4 + mk1 belt split and merge

or you know, process each line as is and then merge the outputs as needed

[plush gulch]

Is it worth it going for the turbo blend fuel?
You are using no coal and half the sulfur, however you get 40 turbo fuel less with 600 crude?

Would need to get the blender first though and then the alternate

[vapid gorge]

worth is entirely up to you
I generally only do blend so I can cut out the coal and simplify it

that way I move less stuff, and there's at least 1 spot with oil and sulfur near each other

[next shoal]

I have a problem. I have 4 smelters: two like this one consuming 36 ore per minute and 2 consuming 24 per minute, giving me a total of 120 ore consumed per minute. However, for some ungodly reason, the third smelter in the line and the second consuming 36 ore per minute, eventually reaches 0 ore and stops. Case in point, I manually filled that one smelter with 100 ore, and it's already at 68. My miner gives exactly 120 ore per minute, and the belts are mk2. What's the issue?

[vapid gorge]

start at the beggining

1. double check clocking of smelters
2. double check clocking of the miner

[next shoal]

Done. I've also checked the clocking on the constructors being fed by all smelters, just in case. Everything looks fine

[vapid gorge]

so is the miner getting clogged and stuttering?

[next shoal]

nope, smooth as butter

[vapid gorge]

then the clocking is off

if the miner was producing enough for hte machines but the machines are starved? the miner should be clogged

makes sense right?

[next shoal]

Here's everything, just in case

They're all correct

[plush gulch]

Why not simply just 4 smelters doing 30 each?

And a manifold

[vapid gorge]

probably going different places

[plush gulch]

Although you could do a load balancer aswell

[vapid gorge]

yeah but load balancers are pointless

[vapid gorge]

how long ave you waited for it to stabalise?

[next shoal]

Hmmm, haven't timed it... It's been 15-20 minutes already?

[vapid gorge]

that's odd, should have balanced out way sooner than that

I have to assume you don't have anything else attached to this belt? another system? a smart splitter off to a sink?

all this is is 1 belt to 4 smelters, supposedly with 120 from the miner not getting backed up?

[next shoal]

Here are the smelters and miner

[vapid gorge]

multiplayer? server? mods?

[next shoal]

Singleplayer, no mods

[vapid gorge]

save and reload and then check the rates again xD

[next shoal]

maybe

[vapid gorge]

could be a very weird bug with the machine panels

[next shoal]

Let me check

[vapid gorge]

All I can think is that a panel is lying to you

and maybe it'll work after a reset

[next shoal]

I should literally be doing some work stuff right now, but I just can't get away until I fix this

I think it's slowly stabilizing now

[vapid gorge]

the last machine or 2 in a manifold will never fill so don't expect them to

unless you're overfeeding

[next shoal]

It's weird cause there are 4 ores, sometimes goes down to 3 and then goes up to 5 suddenly and just cycles like that. It's technically sabilized tho

[vapid gorge]

oh was that all? yeah it'll probably sit at an average but have small variation over time

[next shoal]

Nono, before it literally stopped working at some points

It's fixed now that I've resetted tho

The good old "Turn it off and on"

[vapid gorge]

so it was actually starving before?

[next shoal]

Yes, it was. Just in case, I manually filled it with ore to check the efficiency but it just kept dropping until there were 4 or so ores, and then I resetted

[vapid gorge]

filled all of them with ore?

[next shoal]

I took the ones from the first machine, which filled back pretty quickly. Maybe I was too impatient?

[vapid gorge]

ah yeah,

so the way manifolds work is that the first machines will have priority until they are filled

I thought you'd just took an outside stack of ore, out of the system, to help fill it up

all tha would have done was extend the time it took to fully stabalise

that explains a lot xD

[next shoal]

Sorry, and thanks then. Patience is not my strong point lol

[vapid gorge]

no stress! just let manifolds fill up by doing something else in the mean time 🙂

I tend to let all my systems back up anyway when I'm jsut going up the tiers

[next shoal]

Question: is there anything like a filter in this game? Like, to only move things only if this other one is full or something like that

[vapid gorge]

smart splitter, in the MAM

!wikisearch smart_splitter

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=smart_splitter

[vapid gorge]

your MAM might be the most important building in the game. Research it's stuff early

[next shoal]

Oh, yeah. I'm about to complete phase 2. I'm very new to this game. I'm researching, of course, but I should probably prioritize it more

I was about to make another coal power plant complex, but I've just unlocked oil. Should I just switch to oil?

[vapid gorge]

eh, you do you? other people like different things.

personally I tend to put up 48-64 coal gens and wait until quite later for fuel

there's much more efficient oil recipes

[next shoal]

Hmmm, guess I'll do that. I'd rather do some research instead of trying to figure out a completely new energy source

Are the smart splitters down the alien technology research?

[vapid gorge]

do you like sand box games? are you good and finding what you like about them and creating your own goals?

[vapid gorge]

caterium I think?

[next shoal]

Ohhhh, I see, thanks.

[next shoal]

Hmmmm. Good question. I actually don't play sandbox games that often. I really like this one though. Something about the pursue of absolute cold hard efficiency makes me shed a tear

[vapid gorge]

the reason I ask because tiers 1-9 is essentially 1 long tutorial.

the game really shines outside of it by going ''hey, I have this idea about thing I like in the game and want to make a big complex system around it''

so honestly? just try things out. Even if you figure out a few ways of doing things you'll almost certainly change your whole methodology once or twice

assume every factory/system you make will not be great
you'll find 5-10 things you think you could do differently next time
rinse repeat

[next shoal]

Ohhhh, yeah yeah. I get that. The reason I was so stubborn about this particular layout I asked about working was because it was my first like "serious" layout I tried building myself without looking at any videos or stuff. Honestly, I'm kinda proud of myself, even though it's kinda innefficient cause I have to use power cells to make it work, and it's kind of ugly too. But still, I'm proud lol

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah, I'd suggest avoiding videos in general unless you're asking for a very specific solution to an issue. Even then.... a bit iffy on the info.

The server is more solid about that. Old info gets weeded out here

I still see people on reddit going 'mk2 pipe bug'...

[next shoal]

I actually learnt a lot through the videos. The whole... what's it called? Manifolds? I was too dumb to think about that myself lol. Still, I'm already enjoying the game more by trying my own layouts. Oh, I did have to look up videos about coal power though, cause I still don't really understand how water works

[vapid gorge]

it's just very hit and miss on the quality of what you're getting, is just the thing I'm getting up

!wikisearch CG

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[vapid gorge]

some good basic layouts for coal.

keep fluids simple and ask on here, there's a lot of bad pipe info online

[next shoal]

Oh, the first one is the one I got on that video. Honestly, it was a lifesaver

[vapid gorge]

these are just examples to show how to manage 360 flow with pipes that only manage 300

you could easily run 6 gens off one pipe and not worry about that sort of thing, it's just that 3:8 is very convenient numbers wise.

you often have 120 belts of coal
8 gens need 120 coal
3 extractors supplies exactly the water needed

[jovial jacinth]

I just run 1 extractor (at 75%) per 2 gens to make it simple

[vapid gorge]

this is more space efficient for your water source. Could easily matter

[prisma heart]

anyone else having issues with machines in the experimental build math wise?

Im running little small manifolds - and yet ... some machines will have 100 iron ingots (Lets say) and the next one will have 2, then the next one has 50

[vapid gorge]

Exp build shouldn't be any different to regular build

[prisma heart]

Iv also noticed, that even tho doing all the math and laying everything out, my Iron Smelters are STILL getting backed up and Im able to overclock certain machines

[vapid gorge]

multiplayer? server? mods?

[prisma heart]

Vanilla

singleplayer

[vapid gorge]

probalby don't check 'experimental build' and verify files

[prisma heart]

Like this line here - I have 8x of these

120 in a manifold

All of them are completely backed up and over producing (Not that Im complaining)

[vapid gorge]

then whatever is using them isn't using enough

or you have too slow a belt somewhere

[prisma heart]

The last ones on the row, interestingly enough, are not backed up on rods, but they are full on ingots

[north mauve]

Help I can't math right now

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/

[north mauve]

I have two belts of 480 (960 total). I have two destinations. One wants 360, and the other 600. I do not have mk6 belts. How do I get that working

If I use a splitter on one and feed it into a merger on the other side, it'll end up with 240 and 720, starving the lower side? Or I guess it'll just back up and be fine

[vapid gorge]

split 1x mk2 belt off a 480?

[north mauve]

OH

[vapid gorge]

are the two destinations vaguely close to each other?

[north mauve]

Yeah that'll do it. That was easy. Thank you kind sir pioneer

[north mauve]

Yes

[vapid gorge]

you could easily just keep them as is then, and then merge the products as needed

even if they are going to go make 2 dif products

[prisma kraken]

man, i've been having an everything-goes-wrong sorta night

[wary rapids]

i finnaly broke free of my creative block.

made my electrics section then evernything else i needed to plan fell into place

[prisma kraken]

my trains hit a deadlock and just everything has been off-kilter since then

[wary rapids]

installing belts for high speed coneectors now

[unborn ermine]

biggest of OOFs

[wary rapids]

trains proablly kill worlds allot

[unborn ermine]

Got done my HMF setup after I decided to upgrade it to 22.5/min potential (the one planned for ACUs that uses trained in rubber/plastic thats shared)
Just have to set up sinks at the second final station and I can start that up to test if I did it right

Its so easy to get 22.5/min to work for HMF(encased) than to just limit it to 15/min or some other smaller number

[prisma kraken]

it didn't kill my world, but the deadlock coupled with the fact that i've been touching tons of stuff just has been one of those one-problem-after-another sorts of nights

i'm hitting one of those points where little errors i've made are starting to amplify

[unborn ermine]

good ole recursive errors.

[prisma kraken]

the game really fricking needs monitoring

[vast jungle]

a map marker triggered by some belt-condition (empty for X seconds?) and an audio alter

I am not sure why basic "belt statistics" are not already included in the game, should be reasonable easy to to with a "modified splitter/merger"

[prisma kraken]

i'd just like some panel that lists all machines not running at 100%

anything beyond that is gravy

also, i think some sort of alarm on truck and train stations when their throughput drops below a configured threshold

i'd personally like to see some more advanced stuff like you get in modded Dyson Sphere, but just bare minimum that would be lightweight lifts for the CSS devs would do wonders

i spent a couple of hours earlier screwing around with something that should have been working after reconfiguring it a little bit, but what was actually happening is i was stumbling over a 4 week old silent failure due to a belt speed mismatch

[vast jungle]

the second one is just what I described... I would imagine it a "splitter" with one input and one output where you configure the "acceptable" values and it raises the alert when something outside these values happens.

something easily integratable into any part of a factory/logistic chain

[prisma kraken]

it was my building error, and like pretty 'duh', but I couldn't have ever have detected it before making use of the production because the game lacks monitoring

[vast jungle]

been there, done that (a bit different), found out that plastic production had been offline for days... -.-

[prisma kraken]

seriously, even adding something basic to the truck station could have a lot of utility as being the makeshift splitter you describe

yeah, just past a certain size, problems become very easy to overlook and are difficult to find

i'm pushing a bit farther than i am now in the game without using mods, but i'm really interested to see what stuff is out there for monitoring

[vast jungle]

especially things you made yourself "fool prove" until you prove yourself you are a superior fool than you thought before 😄

[prisma kraken]

last i looked, belt counters couldn't accurately count anything, lol

i build in ways that keep failures from cascading too badly, but there's just days where you feel like bugs bunny plugging the cracks in the dam, lol

[vast jungle]

I had one of those in my old Fuel powerplant... it was just a missing pipe between the left two fuel production refineries and the right two... and the imbalance of the residual rubber somehow made the thing block -.-

one pipe later and it was running as nothing had happened

(looking forward to redo my plastic/rubber production with the MK3 designer)

[jagged harbor]

so I've currently got 120 cat ingots/min and 300 copper/min right next to each other, trying to figure out my best use-case for them

while the easy answer is AI limiters, not entirely sure what I would do with 30/min of those, granted I could use the leftover copper to make 75 circuit boards/min

[vast jungle]

caterium ingots are a nice dense package for shipping Quickwire everywhere you need it (and don't have local Caterium)

[prisma kraken]

what was giving me grief earlier is that my rocket fuel plant kicks off 600 resin, and that goes into this build

the coke there goes to make aluminum with silica from quartz purification

[vast jungle]

okay, I see the potential for a cascase...

[prisma kraken]

so, yeah, everything just ended up f***ed

[jagged harbor]

I'll probably do exactly that in the future, but currently I'm working to make use of the grassy field area, I've paved over it for a massive mega-factory

[vast jungle]

I prefer to be a bit inefficient and keep power generation and item production completely separate

[jagged harbor]

it was my OG start and since theres so much iron/copper/cat/coal figured it would be a good steel and copper focused setup

[vast jungle]

I just increase my own CatIngot output to half a MK5 belt yesterday... has been very useful 🙂

[prisma kraken]

i built the power so that there's plenty of sinks along the way to keep stuff from stopping, but, like it still was a lot of troubleshooting since i was modifying the build i just showed to use up the odd leftover 110/min fuel i was making with some more recycling

[jagged harbor]

already have a full train of plastic set up for importing for whatever I need/want, with another 4 stations pre-made and ready for shipping out/in

I could use the cat and copper to achieve a whopping 2.whatever supercomputers/min, but figured I'd try and shoot for the simpler recipe for supercomputers that uses the cooler and radio

[prisma kraken]

fyi, i was crunching some numbers on train volumes - most efficient means of moving quickwire is as raw copper ore + caterium ingot.

[vast jungle]

I am using Pure Caterium (no copper left nearby), so I ship the ingots

[prisma kraken]

well if you're using default qw, the ingots and wire are 1:1 in terms of stacks in a transport

[jagged harbor]

right but belt speed makes ingots miles better

[prisma kraken]

the wire takes longer to get out of a station on belts, so yeah

if you're running into belt speed issues, you're not using trains right

[jagged harbor]

I'm not entirely certain what I'll be shipping cat around for atm, but I'm specifically using the southern-most node in the grassy area, which has plenty of easy resources right around it for on-site use

[vast jungle]

I have ONE train transporting items that stack to 500... and only because I thought "ahh, why not... it will be fun"

[jagged harbor]

my point was more you can move 5 stacks of ingots in the time it takes to move one stack of wire

[prisma kraken]

there's a number of advanced tricks to allow higher than belt throughput

yeah, of course

most times, honestly, you actually want to direct belt quickwire into whatever takes it

[jagged harbor]

Hrm, going for my AI limiter/circuit board setup might actually not be a bad setup now that I'm looking at AI recipes

[vast jungle]

local (Quick)wire production!!

[prisma kraken]

for default AI Limiter (which i think probably isn't what anyone is going to use from now on), if you clock the AIL assembler at 90%, you can direct belt fused qw & steamed sheet into it - makes for a nice bp

i kind of wonder what took them so long to make the ai limiter alt, that's been needed

[jagged harbor]

yeah but I'm not entirely sure what I'll do with all those AI

especially I'm probably gonna try and swap to the OC supercomputer recipe for much easier numbers

[prisma kraken]

oscillators and ecr's

[jagged harbor]

no idea wtf those are yet 😄

[prisma kraken]

be careful with that recipe - depending on how large you are building, it is very easy to blow out the map limits for bauxite & nitrogen with it

[jagged harbor]

damn, was afraid of that

[prisma kraken]

it eats bauxite alive

[jagged harbor]

hm, in that case might be worth using most of my copper for circuit boards and using that quickwire for cat computers then

[prisma kraken]

its a sweet recipe, and don't let what i say disuade you from using it, you just really have to be sure of whether you are staying within map limits or have the sloops and sam to make more bauxite

[jagged harbor]

I'm firmly within tier 8 atm don't even have turbomotors unlocked yet. Only reason I have particle enrichment was farming crash sites for my rocket fuel factory

STILL annoyed I made it to the place generator step before realizing nitric acid requires particle enrichment for some reason

[unborn ermine]

this, I got to where I am because rocket fuel, its just a game of catchup with 200,000GW power now.

[prisma kraken]

yep, one of the reasons i made my fuel power plant with blended tf and enough underclocked generators to then later upgrade to rocket fuel - just really needed to add nitric acid, sink the ccoal and flush the lines

[jagged harbor]

I was gonna need 144 fully OCed gens for my intial rocket fuel setup, and built them high up above my blenders to abuse gas headlift, did not want to have to retrofit it all for turbofuel

[unborn ermine]

Oh slightly off topic question, would you say a 4min 20 sec loop is alright for my setup?
One train visiting three stations, 1 car for 500/min plastic, 2 for 1300/min rubber, spread between two station output.

[vast jungle]

144 is not that bad... thats 36 BP MK2...

[jagged harbor]

oh I know, I just had to actually FIND those slugs to shard it

[unborn ermine]

Yeah my setup used over 700

[jagged harbor]

jeeeeesus I forgot how greedy for cat high speed connectors are

[vast jungle]

you should have LOTS of shards when you hit Fuel Generators... at least if you collected AND slooped them

I think I had 1k slugs when I built me Rocketfuel powerplant... and then decided NOT to overclock the generators because of the looks 😉

[jagged harbor]

haven't really done a dedicated slug hunt, more just grabbed them when I saw/heard them, and even then sometimes didn't bother cause of enviorment making it more of a pita than it was worth

[unborn ermine]

yeah it was 720 shards for 240 generators

[jagged harbor]

I had plenty until I decided to burn 432 of them

[unborn ermine]

My mass supply is running low, little over 600 left

[frosty owl]

BTW, I'm curios about wether you got anywhere with this ^^
Did you test it in-game some?

[vast jungle]

me neither, but I grabed all yellow/purple ones I found during hunting for HDs and mercer-spheres/sloops

and each Purple one gives you 10 shards 😄

[jagged harbor]

I said fuck that as I didn't want to have to deal with even MORE spiders/hogs

[vast jungle]

thats why I take a hoverpack and powerlines with me on these hunts...

but I admin, spitters were annoying before I got the rifle

[unborn ermine]

Me doing all that with my trusty beatting stick.

[vast jungle]

precisely dodging spitter fire while reloading the rebar gun can be quite fun when you finally get the timing right

[unborn ermine]

Same with a proper powerslide slap slap

[frosty owl]

I've become a big fan of stunning before Slapping

1 stun, 4 slaps

2 slaps and 1 hog...

[prisma kraken]

PSA: if you're planning on running logistics above train stations, add another 4 meters of headspace, while this is enough for a layer of belts, it's really unpleasant to work around the stations

really you keep landing accidentally with the hovepack on top of the stations and falling, lol

[vast jungle]

or just add an additional ground layer 😉

[jagged harbor]

how good is electrod circuit board?

[vapid gorge]

like all alt recipes entirely depends on

your location
needs
personal style

got lots of oil around you aren't using for anything else? probably a useful situation

[vast jungle]

when you spread around the map, different recipes can be more or less useful in different areas...

[jagged harbor]

I mean, while I am sitting on entirely too much crude oil atm, I'm more thinking later stages

Long story short I demolished all of my stuff except my motor factory and have the bare minimum feeding depots atm

[vapid gorge]

again - depends on your location and what you're doing?

like you could make a bunch of CBs next to oil and drone them to an electronics factory?

[jagged harbor]

currently I'm working on fixing my rail network, and using the grassy plains to a stupid degree

[vapid gorge]

pro tip: don't do that until you have other factories set up.

or don't do that at all and keep your old stuff going until you start the map fresh

[jagged harbor]

issue is my first ever factory was RIGHT smack in the way of my rail network

[vapid gorge]

couldn't... move the rail a bit? make it go over?

[jagged harbor]

with mile long belts moving stuff from one random machine to another

[vapid gorge]

in any case it sounds like more than a 1 recipe issue - time to plan out whole factories and their locations with this https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[jagged harbor]

pft I still have to pick my finalized products xD

While I've set up stuff making steel beams/pipes, and iron plates/rods, those are out of the way for the most part for me to really be smart about my usage in grassy. I'm currently sitting on 120 cat ingots/300 copper ingots that I'm trying to figure out what I want to use (I already have a train set up to import plastic)

[vapid gorge]

just make some basic medium end products and use containers to catch extras as they fill up

and that tool literally helps you choose finalised products and how to get to them

[jagged harbor]

I know that, I more mean like, do I want to go all out and use those to make a whopping 2 super computers a minute, or do I want to go for a more stage 2/3 sort of setup and ship out those for use elsewhere

like doing just basic AI limiter and circuit boards

[vapid gorge]

that is some planning 🙂 although setting up a train net work and then fitting factories around it is generally teh worse way to go about it in my experience

build networks to fit your factories, not the other way around

[jagged harbor]

since I have steamed copper sheets I can make like 30 AI/min and 75 circuit/min

[jagged harbor]

oh thats my plan, the issue is my initial train setup was 2 completely seperate back/forth shuttle trains

or well, 3 if I include my aluminum shuttle train

but going back and fixing it to be a dual rail setup required a lot of reorganizing

to the point it was easier just to scrap the spaghetti mess of my first ever factory in grassy

Also also, like 90% of my factories were random middle of nowhere stuff making items to just dump straight into a depot

[vapid gorge]

have you completed tier 9 yet?

[jagged harbor]

NOPE

firmly at the start of tier 8, with me cheesing particle acceleration because I had already completely my rocket fuel factory before realizing I couldn't actually make nitric acid even though I had nitrogen and the blender unlocked

even my aluminum 'factory' is very slapdash and inefficient since I didn't have the alts at the time, and was just depoting for tier 5 belts and such

[vapid gorge]

yeah just keep working on clearing t9, its essentially still a tutorial

[prisma kraken]

I find generally, if you can start automating the base components for the higher end parts, a box factory for the high end part is all you need until you're looking to use that high-end part for the next tier up

in the electronics chain, using the electro cb recipe to get some circuit boards cooking early is one of those 'easy button' sort of tricks

[jagged harbor]

that's my current goal essentially. All I have properly set up atm is plastic, HMF, and aluminum

oh and motors

and even then motors is the only one remotely ready for transporting

[prisma kraken]

yeah, motors, hmf rubber+plastic then aluminum is sort of the progression that i think works best. from there, make the electronics stuff as opportunity arises

[jagged harbor]

its more they're all the important things I need for building everything of a higher tier (that isn't stupidly easy to set up with a random iron node)

[prisma kraken]

motors are interesting... you need quite a few of them for refineries, but you shouldn't try overbuilding them early. the motor alts are really good later

[jagged harbor]

motors were the first every proper factory I made at a whoppin 15/min

[prisma kraken]

the trick i use for motors is that i build the motor factory and leave space to replace the assemblers with manufacturers doing rigour motor later

[jagged harbor]

I ate good on them tickets and was ready come refinery spam time

[prisma kraken]

adding a few oscillators and you quadruple your motor production

[jagged harbor]

(I used that group of 3 pure iron and 1 pure copper on the west coast south of oil island for all of this)

[prisma kraken]

that's such a sweet and underutilized spot

[jagged harbor]

it also has like, two entire pure limestone nodes too

it was my first real expansion that wasn't the coal power crater

[prisma kraken]

one might argue that that spot may be a better starting location than speedrunners bluff at this point

[unborn ermine]

That spot is my HMF for planned Fused frames and possibly some other stuff if I send in more coal.

[jagged harbor]

the fact its right on the cliff near the ocean makes it perfect for shipping stuff later

[prisma kraken]

btw, if you need extra copper in that spot, there's a pure sulfur node on the cliff right above it. sulfur converts 1:1 to copper

[unborn ermine]

I used that for my rocket fuel

[vast jungle]

vertical space is always free 😉

[vast jungle]

thats where I am producing my copper powder at the moment... already had enough Iron elsewhere, but the spot IS really nice

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i meant leave enough space btw the assemblers to accomodate replacing them with manufacturers so you don't have to rebelt it all

[unborn ermine]

And yeah that copper is what I have sent up to my aluminum plant on the gold coast arch

[vast jungle]

rebuilding with different inputs IS painful... because it can change a lot of the factory

[unborn ermine]

2 full mk5 belts of copper ingots being train'd

[prisma kraken]

is anyone else finding that iron is just so ubiquitous that you feel bad leaving it untapped? the rebalance of HMF/EIB really has freed up a lot of iron imho

[unborn ermine]

Yeah that one spot has so much iron leftover, I was unsure of what to do with it, so ive left it alone for now.

[prisma kraken]

in previous updates, i was scrapping iron and coal nodes from multiple biomes just to make enough pipe for hmf's

i'm not really complaining, its just something i've been noticing

the other night i took a few hrs to make an iron only motor factory on 4 normal nodes cuz why not? lol

[vast jungle]

I don't know what to do with it at the moment... all other factories have more than enough Iron for their current production

[unborn ermine]

Yeah once you have a goal and plan figured out things like that are surprisingly simple.
Setting up these 22.5/min HMF was similar

[prisma kraken]

it almost feels like there's something clever to be done with the extra

[jagged harbor]

jesus, I made one thta was 5/min and that was already a pain

[prisma kraken]

i'm making 90/min, lol

[vast jungle]

I have five factory complexes at the moment... and maybe one of of them could be is iron limited if I want to increase production

(its my "frame factory" 😉 )

[unborn ermine]

The funny thing about HMF... encased especially, the numbers are so nice when you shoot for 22.5/min

[vast jungle]

hmm...

[unborn ermine]

This here, was my plan using only steel from my compacted coal byproduct from RF

[vast jungle]

if you have more coal...

this might fit into my current "frame factory" place quite nicely... just have to see how Fused Frames and Pressure Cubes modify this

[unborn ermine]

Yeah its a nice little plan for the end numbers,
Here, I forgot to show this is pretty much the one I just set up really quick last night.

[vast jungle]

fused frames eat a lot of Aluminium Casings

[unborn ermine]

Yeah... planning for that mess once I get my HMF for my ACUs done then work on my computers ect for ACUs, then go back to my aluminum plant and actually get that rolling

so. many. things.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that's the case for heat-fused frame. it saves on alum AND copper

quite possibly the most evil recipe in the game

[vast jungle]

on the other side, Heat-Fused frames take a LOT more nitrogen, right?

[prisma kraken]

yeah, you're going to be burning a bunch on it, sure, but you're using some anyway. its just nitric acid is more of a pita than gas

there's actually enough nitrogen on the map now for it to be a non-issue if you don't choose stupid recipe chains. The change made to the cooling device alt makes all the difference

[unborn ermine]

Yeah, I think with what I planned, I was going to do fused frames, then have the leftover nitric acid packed and sent to a nearby quartz purification area (location to be determined )

[prisma kraken]

i think that may be the best balance change that was made, but runners up are EIB/EIP and plastic AIL

[vast jungle]

I am far from getting the resources of the whole map... I think all my factories get their Nitrogen from the node in the North-West corner (except for power production of course)

[prisma kraken]

i have the BC and EDF god well tapped at this point, until i get to HF frames in the swamp, i'm good

i need to figure out heat fused frames soon. I really want to use the swamp for that, but i don't think I'll have enough oil or nitrogen there

[vast jungle]

hmm... I just see that the "sweet spot" below the Oil fields on the West Coast also has Nitrogen... HMM

the problem is that Coal is quite a bit away

[past reef]

There are 3 pure ones near rocky desert and there is natural road from there towards west coast

[vast jungle]

Turning the "coal lake" nearby into a "frame factory" also looks quite interesting... there is lots of Iron AND Copper there... and the 4 "normal" Coal nodes...

[unborn ermine]

Thats my delema, so many juicy things in the area and my decision stunlock kicks in

[past reef]

I'm making a couple train tracks but it might cut through a bunch of nodes and decision stunlock kicks in

Keeps thinking if I need that place in the future

Need to move the god nitrogen well and the pure quartz node nearby to west coast without cutting off the quartz cluster further south

But either direction slightly cuts through the uranium cave and whatnot

[unborn ermine]

When in doubt, setup fake miners/builds on a ton of nodes, and plan out stuff afterwards.
that way, you have more than a "what if" in the back of your mind.

[past reef]

Yeah, its probably mostly because of forcing my trains to never share tracks :/

Guess I gonna build some tracks on the tighter places first

[past reef]

While I can do that, having a train track under/over a belt that isnt for the station feels weird

[unborn ermine]

Yeah I started with uber wide tracks for belt supports in the middle, then now using 2 foundation wide for my second setup.
I wonder when I will start using stacked rails

The wide tracks at least had a reason to be wide, belts fed compact coal + rubber/plastic south, iron plates + sulphur up, and then the pipes for nitrogen

Oh.
I keep forgetting about this

might have a pair of nuts by the time I get to phase 5

[prisma kraken]

first 1000 are easy

[unborn ermine]

oh I have nothing prepped for phase 3 parts or phase 4
just the steel related stuff and I need to redo auto wire.

[prisma kraken]

you're kinda taking your time

[unborn ermine]

Yep
Explored the map for HD and sloop/spheres and just worked towards RF now slow grind up.

[magic dock]

For the 100 HMF no alt project I will have to setup trains eventually.

Total raw input is 24k Iron Ore/min, 9k Coal/min and 9k Limestone/min.

I have built the factory in the Rocky Desert so if needed the Limestone can be done with Belts instead of trains from the 9 pure nodes north of it.

That still leaves me with setting up trains for the Iron Ore and Coal.

I know better than to ask for exact numbers but I do want to ask if someone would have an estimate hearing these numbers of how many trains I need to setup? Mainly asking so I can plan enough space for the train stations

[prisma kraken]

that's sort of the way i did things, but once i got to phase 3, i went all-in on rushing to completion to unlock everything

[unborn ermine]

When I started muckng around with my 1560/min copper ore train route, if its long, you want a long train + multiple trains for the high volume.

[past reef]

in general you need at least 3 freights per pure node and only if that one train doesn't have more than like 4 stops

[unborn ermine]

Consensus iirc for freight platforms was a little bit less than your max belt throughput for each car.

[prisma kraken]

I'd boil the limestone down to concrete and probably process the iron into rods & plates at the miners

that'll give you a lot more train capacity

[magic dock]

Thats not an option in this case, whole idea of it was to create one giant factory (which is almost ready)

[prisma kraken]

well, then plan on 600/min per train car of ore

[unborn ermine]

Long trains and many of them.

[past reef]

in that production chain only screws are not compressable you can just make frames and whatnot on the source

[prisma kraken]

yeah, one thing of note though, mod frames don't travel very well

[unborn ermine]

The 50 stack size yeah that does not help

[prisma kraken]

they're one of those items that probably should be a 100 stacker instead of a 50

[past reef]

I thought it's still better compressed compared to iron ore?

[prisma kraken]

debateable, i'm not going to work through the math on that

[past reef]

you basically compress a pure iron node into a stack of modular frame (if no alt)

[unborn ermine]

Its probably close comparatively, but it would be screwed over by the travel distance I would think

[prisma kraken]

my mod frame factory makes 90/min from 900 iron and 300 copper raw, so ehh 12->2 stacks?

[magic dock]

Okay so lets say 4 trains/train stations of 6k items/min each for the iron for example? Then I'll know enough in terms of space

[prisma kraken]

i said 600/min, not 6k

like each train car can move about a normal miner's worth of ore

[magic dock]

Yeah I assumed 10 train cars per train for that example

[unborn ermine]

huh. fun fact, 1200/min iron ore = 5/min HMF

[past reef]

600 per min car can only do dedicated line, I don't think there will be many places to pick up 5 pure

[magic dock]

I have not used the dune desert at all yet so plenty to take from there

[vast jungle]

would a MK6 belt allow to push this limit?

[past reef]

for me I only do dedicated push pull line, if I can see a place to pick up 5 pure nodes worth of item I will do 2 freight per node, otherwise with 2 stations+ I'd do 3 freight per node

[prisma kraken]

it's more that a train car can fit 3200 ore, average rtt for most train trips is around 5 minutes, that gets you about 600/min from a miner's worth of capacity

[past reef]

double loading/unloading should be able to push the limit a bit more, but unless I'm doing 3 freight per node I don't want to mess up merging

[prisma kraken]

(inexact napkin math)

[past reef]

in my experience 5 minutes RTT is okay in general assuming you don't stop at another station

though you can't reliably cross map on 5 minutes RTT

[prisma kraken]

if you're doubling up trains, you can go a lot higher throughput, but i'm just sayin that one train car moving around a reasonable loop of 5ish minutes does around 600/min ore

[unborn ermine]

Yeah I was wondering trip times, like, my one question earlier.

would you say a 4min 20 sec loop is alright for my setup?
One train visiting three stations, 1 car for 500/min plastic, 2 for 1300/min rubber, spread between two station output.

[prisma kraken]

seems fine to me, but you should always do some test runs and verify

[unborn ermine]

you think I should start with any stations' buffers empty, or should I let them fill up naturally?

[prisma kraken]

my rubber loop is moving 3600/min with 2 4-carraige trains of 900/min each and making 4(?) stops

[past reef]

oh yeah if the train track is looped in a circle it'd massively decrease trip time lol

not always reliable but you can probably plan routes that way

a circle loop would allow 3 (maybe 4 if short) stops with 2 freights per pure

[magic dock]

I still have a massive part of the rocky desert that is not used so loops should be possible

(in terms of space)

[prisma kraken]

there's always a look at things from 30000 feet up and see if you can spot any simple improvements

[prisma kraken]

now that i'm getting more of a picture of what you are doing and where, something i'll note for you is that trains of more than 5 cars need extra engines on them to climb inclines. that probably will come into play if you are looking to tap the 8 pure iron nodes in north forest

[magic dock]

Yeah I know

[prisma kraken]

actually, i think it is 10 pure iron

6 in iron glenn & 4 on the bluff, right?

[magic dock]

I do still need to account for the power draw of the trains actually

I do already have 20GW spare power for the factory itself

[prisma kraken]

you might want a bit more of a cushion than that, but 20gw is a good chunk of power

one thing saving you is that you won't be using refineries 😄

[magic dock]

That was the biggest plus of this whole thing

The downside is that I now have 153km of belts just in that factory

[magic dock]

I have 40 GW total but am already using 17GW or something

[past reef]

I suspect that will eat more than the 20GW you're left with, mostly with the constructors (bunch of screws) and manufacturer (need 50 and each takes like 55), maybe get 10GW more

[magic dock]

According to satisfactorytools its around 20/21GW total

And I tried to avoid overclocking as much as possible to stay close to that number

But yeah I am aware that I will need more power to be safe

[prisma kraken]

so has anyone had problems taking 2 mk3 miners on normal nodes and merging their output onto a mk6 belt and getting full speed from it?

[unborn ermine]

The killer would be the trains imho, logistics is gunna be the bane of that power pool

[magic dock]

Well that + the power all the miners will take

[prisma kraken]

trains really don't take a whole lot of power

[unborn ermine]

Oh yeah since your Tools calc dosent have miners + overclocking them costs

its the sheer amount than the trains themselves

[prisma kraken]

engines take 25mw when they're climbing and stations use a pretty good spike when loading/unloading, but amortized, they really aren't very power hungry

[magic dock]

But it will also depend on how I organize it, there are some impure and normal iron nodes on the rocky desert coast so those would be great to balance everything out

[prisma kraken]

tbh, i think the hard part is going to be steel

[magic dock]

Yeah the coal

[prisma kraken]

that and just the shear number of beams you need for it all

[magic dock]

Not that bad

[prisma kraken]

i don't have a good feel for how much better that is after the rebalance

[magic dock]

2000 steel pipes for the HMF and 1500 steel beams for the Encased Industrial Beams

Which comes from 9k steel ingot/min

But that is alreay setup

Only have the assemblers for modular frame and the manufacturers left in the factory itself

[prisma kraken]

nah, i take that back. hard part is mod frames

[magic dock]

(#1306740216890916987 message)

[magic dock]

Yeah 250 assemblers is gonna be fun

[prisma kraken]

that's just a metric ton of rods

[magic dock]

Iron Rods were actually the worst

[vast jungle]

so many rods without steel rods? 😄

[magic dock]

8250 iron rods per min

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that's horrible, and you don't even get to use cast screw, lol

[magic dock]

5250 for the screws, 3000 for the modular frames

550 constructors

[prisma kraken]

i think you may get the award for the worst project idea ever, lol

[past reef]

yeah even end game I don't see myself making more than 50 HMF/pasta per min

[magic dock]

I plan to make the outside look like the freighter that holds hard drives to remind me why you should use alts lol

[magic dock]

Not to mention that I made this in T6

So everything is Mk.4 belts

And there are so many of them that I get a lag spike when I paint them

Doesn't happen with other objects so I might have found a performance bug lol

[vast jungle]

that sounds expensive 😄

[prisma kraken]

i think that's a known bug, in multiplayer, painting stuff or changing the swatch colors gets pretty laggy

hey, at least you have the EIB's handled though, right? 🙂

[magic dock]

EIB?

[vast jungle]

EncasedIndustrialBeams ?

[magic dock]

Oh yeah

There is a temp factory somewhere pumping 64/min into a depot that has a Industrial storage container in front

Only time I ran out was when doing the 44 belt single layer bus for the screws

Because I did make sure that the belts are as long as possible to cut down on the number of UObjects

[magic dock]

Well its feels for me as if it is indexing through all the Mk.4 belts for something

[prisma kraken]

idk

[vast jungle]

not enough that MK4s are expensive to make, now they are also expensive to the Engine? Oh dear... lucky to hit Aluminium some time ago 😄

[magic dock]

Well I suspect it could happen with any object

But what I said it feels like it is indexing through all of them and since there are so many it becomes a noticable thing, I plan to make a post on the QA site with my save attached

[robust raptor]

I was wondering how powerful trains really were and spent an afternoon doing a whole bunch of excel calculations to figure it out

So basically, the third table is the important one and shows the round trip time as well as estimated distance between stations a train can travel if you want to sustain a given throughput for an item of a certain stack size

[magic dock]

I don't know what happened but the screenshot is pretty heavily compressed

numbers are not readable for me

[vast jungle]

they look okay for me

try to open them in the webbrowser

[magic dock]

ah its the mobile app that does that🥴

[vast jungle]

what is TTF?

[robust raptor]

Time to fill

Basically the time taken to fill a cargo wagon given a specified throughput

It's equivalent to the round trip time because the train needs to be back in the station in time to be filled again to sustain that throughput

From all the calculations, I've determined that throughput on items that stack to 200 is much better (as expected), and the range that you can transport items that stack to 200 across the map while sustaining throughput is a lot further as compared to items that stack to 100

[vast jungle]

I am confused by parts of this table... "MK5 max Throughput" (2nd table) is whats the maximum you can get "per wagon/station" ?

[robust raptor]

Yeah

[vast jungle]

then why is Max MK6 Throughput > 2400 ?

[robust raptor]

Ah one of the excel formulas was wrong, hold on

[deft lichen]

are you accounting for the 27.08s I/O lockout while un/loading?

[robust raptor]

Yeah

That's why there's both TTF and 2 station travel in the third table, 2 station travel subtracts the I/O time at both stations from the TTF

And also why the max throughput is less than 2 belts in the second table (which is actually a replica of the table on the wiki but with a naive estimated travel distance added)

[vast jungle]

so if I understand your table correctly the main issue with low-stacking items is how fast the station is full... which limits the time until you need the next train

[robust raptor]

Yeah, pretty much

The 27.08s I/O really hurts low stack items because it takes up a lot of the TTF, which means less time for the train to go from station to station

Which necessitates measures like longer trains, having more trains per station and a train buffer, etc.

The limited throughput you can get out of 100 stack items and the limited travel distance before throughput starts dropping definitely seems to support localised resource usage and medium-distance belting of ores and ingots over using trains, since the high-volume 100 stack items are generally ores and ingots

[vast jungle]

but its only an issue if you need a full belt of low-stack things... but its gut to remember, stack size 50 things are not uncommon.
Maybe uncommon for mass-produced items?

[robust raptor]

Stack size 50 isn't a concern since all stack size 50 items are either manufactured high-density items or player items, which you don't really need very high throughput of (the relevant throughput for stack size 50 is 100 items/wagon, which trains can easily support)

It's mainly stack size 100 (ores and ingots) which is a concern

[deft lichen]

I thought more trains per station is WAY worse because you get even more lockout

[robust raptor]

I haven't actually done the maths for more trains per station, I'll try that out

[wind spade]

not always. If the platform fills up before next train, then adding another train usually increases throughput of the line

[robust raptor]

I imagine it might be an issue for many-to-one systems, like shipping all the bauxite out of the red forest to a single location

[vast jungle]

and if the station is only half full when the 2nd train departs than its better to just use one train 😉

(if it goes to the same destination)

[robust raptor]

Off the top of my head, it doesn't seem like multiple trains to a single station will hurt throughput? If it's a pair of stations, adding another train should just increase the allowed trip time per train by double or more since we can treat the station as accepting a train every cycle, and each train gets two cycles to make the round trip, leading to no reduction in throughput

So having more trains per station should be pretty effective especially for low stack items since it basically adds both the time between stations and another 27.08s block per train added for train travel time

[outer vale]

More trains to one station can increase throughput up to a point, but will then start decreasing it once the pause for unloading starts to dominate

[robust raptor]

I don't think it'll decrease it because it just hits the theoretical maximum throughput in the second table, since trains don't unload if there's no space in the freight platform

So at that point, having more trains is the same as having infinite trains because throughput doesn't scale anymore and the freight platform continuously cycles between train unloading and belt unloading

[spark bane]

Everytime I come in here I have to shut my brain off so it doesn't get overloaded

[robust raptor]

Did some simple calculations on multiple trains per station and they were about what I expected, it's basically a linear relation of number of trains against max distance for trip / round trip travelling time / average throughput, although average throughput is capped at the theoretical maximum per cargo platform

Adding even a single extra train for stack size 100 drastically increases the round trip travelling time and distance the trains can travel before throughput falls, so using multiple trains for long-distance transportation of stack size 100 items is powerful

This assumes that the trains don't interfere with each other (e.g. two trains reach the station at the same time) which might lead to more acceleration / deceleration time, leading to lower throughput

[amber umbra]

Just to mention, I think quite a few people don’t use the full load/unload option for trains which might contribute to the station lockout topic being especially emphasized.

[deft lichen]

Wdym full load/unload option

[amber umbra]

In the time table settings, you have to options for the train load/unload. Either do one load/unload or do a full load/unload.

Ala load what is present or wait until a full load can be loaded.

The option that loads what is present locks out your stations whenever a train arrives but doesn’t inherently give you the full train load potentially bottlenecking train throughout. I haven’t intensively looked into the numbers since I just use full load option.

[north mauve]

The empirical answer is however many hours I played in 16 days. @remote flame 🥇 🌰 😎

[next shoal]

I hope you don't mind me asking a very specific question. Why does Mk3 belt move 270 items per minute? Shouldn't it be 240?

[wind spade]

no. mk4 at some point moved 450/min

there's no "rule" on what a belt must move

also, 270 helps a lot with many items produced around that stage, which can come in amounts of 15 or 45/min, which fits into 270 nicely

[hushed kettle]

also can merge with mk4 to get 750

[next shoal]

Right, I forgot that steel starts to produce in amounts of 45

[patent blaze]

running out of oil way too fast..

[wary rapids]

im expecting i will be able to get though tier 4 with that. but i am mixing concrete into the pipes.

also will ber able to recover 120 ingots with aluminium beam recipe

[bronze kestrel]

So, i'm playing with satisfactory tools. Cause i no experience with the nuclear part of the game. I came with alternate recepies i have, still at 4800 copper and 320 refinery's for 12k ingots.
That's a bit much for my liking. Anyone got an idea if 10 nuclear pasta/min is a bit overkill ? What should i aim for? Or what did you do, that's sustainable to build, or what alternate recepies should ease the logistics and items/min😬

[wary rapids]

you can go much smaller. but nuclear is all about going ham.

[violet halo]

My plan is for 1/m then slooping it.

[wary rapids]

have you done rocket fuel yet?

[bronze kestrel]

No i'm running on turbo fuel

[violet halo]

I imagine the pasta will have plenty of time to build up, while I handle all of the other phase 5 parts.

[bronze kestrel]

Hmm, so I don't really need it? For later ?

[wary rapids]

that's defintly a large amount if were to make ten lanes of copper

[bronze kestrel]

I have the fused mod frames already build (10/min)

[wary rapids]

i dont think the roadio control units will be enoerous either.

You can get 6 lanes from this spot.

mix the iron and copper

[leaden depot]

Just when I thought I've figured everything out, I can't figure out why my refineries are not running at 100%:

It will run a batch, spend a second or so emptying, then sit idle for another couple of seconds before starting again. why would it do that?

[wary rapids]

with this spot nearby that should be ten lanes.

i think you have given a a goal. i will shot for 10 nuclear pasta per min.

i can limit my rocket fuell to whats needed to sustain that.

[leaden depot]

With 1 sloop or 0, it runs fine, but with 2 sloops it stalls. I wonder if its because 32 fuel is more than half the output buffer

[deft lichen]

try blocking the output to check if it accordingly increases the output buffer size

if not, it's a bug

[bronze kestrel]

Haha, did i make you do something 👀

[bronze kestrel]

If you want you can build it, in my save. Ficsit lady will pay you generously😅

[bronze kestrel]

I would add a smart splitter on the compacted coal, and see if some slips out with overflow. If so, probably not all compacted coal is being used and it's bottlenecking. I had the same with my turbo fuel and it fixed it.

[leaden depot]

my compacted coal is just being sunk. I have a mk 6 belt going straight to a sink. No way thats backed up

[steel knot]

Anyone use the dark ion fuel alternate? I’m weighing the pros and cons of setting up power shards vs packaging rocket fuel

[fossil basalt]

I thought about it and then noticed it destroyed the containers

[leaden depot]

I did some spreadsheeting, and I really couldn't find a reason to use it. But I may be missing something

its way less efficient in rocket fuel

maybe if you just need a little for jetpacks it is easier to set up

[prisma kraken]

it isn't very efficient of a recipe

[steel knot]

Yeah it’s mainly a post game goal to try to set up one of everything. Ion fuel was mainly for jet packs. Was going to stop at rocket fuel for fuel based energy

[prisma kraken]

from what i can tell is that ionized fuel is a way of kicking off a bit more power by making powershards to generate dark matter crystal for other processes... concievably you could use that DMC for making even more power, but that concept seems sort of meh to me

[fossil basalt]

Ionized fuel is like 38% more efficient than rocket fuel, but the input is 240 to get 200, so you're losing most of that in the recipe already, and then you're also putting in 80 dark matter crystals and 240 fuel tanks (240 aluminum ingots)

Some late game stuff prob needs a balance pass

[prisma kraken]

also, it takes 480 rocket fuel and makes it into 200 ion fuel vs the default recipe which is 1:1

[fossil basalt]

Fisconium has a similar problem

[prisma kraken]

its 480 rf, not 240

rf packages 2:1

[wind spade]

ficsonium isn't supposed to be better power generation, it's supposed to be for wasteless plutonium

which it does well

[prisma kraken]

(and essentially burning 240 alum ingots on making it as well 😦

[fossil basalt]

If the recipe gave the empty tanks back I would give it a try I think, even though the math doesn't work still

[prisma kraken]

i honestly think they made a mistake on that recipe

like whoever came up with the idea for the alt forgot that rf packages 2:1

i have a feeling that they decided to move the recipe from the blender to converter at the last minute and just forgot about the packaging ratio

i guess it would have been a refinery recipe instead of blender, but still, the recipe is really, really bad, lol

again, the point of making power shards is to generate dm crystal, so cutting them out of ion fuel making pretty much defeats the purpose of ion fuel which is to make some power while generating crystal 🙂

[steel knot]

Huh. When I make power shards I recycle the dark matter to produce no excess DMC’s am I doing it wrong?

I never automated the phase 5 stuff so maybe I missed a yearning for DMCs

[north mauve]

"never automated" o_o I was scared before, but now... Is it really that hard?

[prisma kraken]

the dark matter trap recipe is how you kick off the excess DMC

[steel knot]

No, I just got burnt out and had enough left over storage from prior components that I hand fed it to get it done

Some friends I started playing with wanted to watch the ending together so I wanted to catch up

[prisma kraken]

there's 3 dm crystal recipes, the default recipe is sort of meh... the other 2 (trap & crystalization) allow fine-tuning the amount of dm crystal produced if used with each other. Refer to the DM Crystal page on the wiki for the exact math of it all

i'm not that big on getting the dm residue and crystal balanced... crystal is sinkable so making excess isn't a big deal

what becomes an issue though is making enough time crystal to use the DM Trap recipe - it sort of eats them D:

and, um, yeah, i got into phase 5 and just cheesed my way to the end as well with a small loop of converter->encoder->accelerator that i reconfigured for all the elevator stuff

when i ran out of dm crystal, i made some shards, then went back to making the delivery

man, a lot of quickwire

it kind of hits you how much your making when you see a near-full mk6 belt moving without stutters

[burnt wraith]

Is there some way to tell SF tools to stop making extras? I just wanted 10 servers not 14 with 73 turbo motors on the side

[bronze kestrel]

Looks like a bug ?

I had funky things happening with SF as well

Unless there is something going on with the imput

[burnt wraith]

I put a bunch of stuff in the input but it seems to try and use as much of the input as possible instead of using as little of the input as possible

[wind spade]

it's mostly when having a byproduct is cheaper than making exactly as much as you wanted (or even impossible)

and yes, input is considered free, so it will use it if it can

[burnt wraith]

the extra superposition oscillators made sense to me but the rest I was confused on

[prisma kraken]

it needs to balance out the DMR. You can probably set an input of DMR to keep it from doing that

[wind spade]

in general, don't add more input than you need

[prisma kraken]

@wind spade is sftools smart enough to not make byproducts that are unsinkable?

[wind spade]

no, it doesn't assume byproducts are always sinked

and sometimes that'd be horrible (e.g. HOR)

[prisma kraken]

so something like disolved silica or DMR can be a unwanted byproduct of what it 'optimizes'

[burnt wraith]

My goal was to use the tool to try and figure out, instead of how much raw resources, how much of these input items that the end products will be consuming. It seems like the priorities changed from 0.8 to 1.0 so I don't think I can do it this way anymore

[wind spade]

there was no change to solver between 0.8 and 1.0

[prisma kraken]

technically hor can be packaged and sunk, my question was more about making things that there's really no easy way of getting rid of w/o another factory

[wind spade]

well given that it almost always makes more sense to process the byproduct rather than just sink it, I don't think that's something worth taking time to do

[prisma kraken]

fair enough

[tiny leaf]

do valves prevent backflow/sloshing?

[violet halo]

yes/no

It just compartmentalizes the 'sloshing'.

[steel knot]

There are setups with valves and buffers that help fix slosh

[steel knot]

Lesson 10 here: https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/3/39/Pipeline_Manual.pdf

Not sure if that’s specifically to address slosh or just other flow rate weirdness but I figure they’re sides of the same coin

[prisma kraken]

you're best not to try using them to prevent slosh, they really don't work very well and often compound your problems rather than solving them

my turn for a question. Is there a way in the unmodded game of getting a reading on how much fuel your drone fleet is consuming?

I'm asking because I'm making 300 yellow fuel per minute, and drone ports when i tally up their consumption/min are reporting way more than that, yet all my supply storage is still full

[eager solar]

I don't think you can see the amount for all the drones at once, also maybe the consumption/min doesn't account for the times the drone is on standby (if he can't unload everything)?

[violet halo]

The whole fleet, not that I've seen. You would have to check each flight path.

SCIM also might be able to tell you, I haven't delved too deep into it.

[prisma kraken]

i think how i'm going to approach the problem is to have an ISC on the fuel's sink line with an output belt at something like 60 or 120/min and then measure the delta of how full it should be at 300/min vs what it actually contains

also, i doubt SCIM will give you more than the game will, its working off of the stuff in the save file without ability to simulate what rate factories drain buffers

so this is the test setup: amount in is 300 and the sink belt is 270

[main shuttle]

i wonder if you could complete the game using just the nodules & not placing down a single miner

[violet halo]

It won't, I just meant it may be easier to see all the routes that way.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i've already run around and gathered what the ports say, lol

btw, am i correct in thinking that you can make extra liquid cannisters by slooping dpf?

[violet halo]

Is that the one in the refinery?

[amber umbra]

You can’t sloop packager at all as it would let you exploit/duplicate liquids.

Otherwise, sloops are sloops.

[violet halo]

There is one or two of the packaged recipes that are in the refinery.

[amber umbra]

It’s possible you can then, but the devs clearly don’t allow any exploitative loop stuff so it wouldn’t be anything profound if you can.

[violet halo]

That is more or less what I was about to say, so I agree.

[amber umbra]

@prisma kraken For drone port fuel use, I assume the listed values on the port UI assume continuously active drones. So you could calculate the percent active based on item/s to adjust. I’d just overproduce and not care. Or manually find the values by measuring a static storage feeding the port over X time.

Factorio I found the total fuel usage for my megabase’s trains via the stat screen after equilibrating. Ala reading a graph. Definitely would be useful in satisfactory for this type of thing.

[tiny leaf]

this is incredibly helpful thank you

[fringe seal]

for fun, I calculated how much HOR to dedicate for fuel vs. coke for electrode circuit board
and it turns out that it splits 5:9
assuming all resin is turned to rubber, 5/14 of all HOR production should go to making fuel, 9/14 of all HOR should go to making coke

the fuel then is injected to the recycling loop to be turned into rubber

[steel knot]

Make sure to read @prisma kraken’s comment on the flow regulators. I think they’re more experienced in this space. But yeah that handbook in general is very nice

[deft lichen]

please use the new link: https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/3/39/Pipeline_Manual.pdf

[steel knot]

Thanks!

[steel knot]

Edited comment for posterity

[tiny leaf]

yeah noted

no unnecessary valve usage

[jolly furnace]

does this boost my speed?

or does it do nothing

[warm bane]

When seting up a recycled loop, you should prime the refineries before starting them all up, right ?

[violet halo]

Its safer to prime most pipes, that I've noticed.

[fringe seal]

if nothing it'll seek the equilibrium faster

[violet halo]

like that I'm not sure, but entrances in succession will normally increase speed.

[fringe seal]

also (imo) the exception to the "most" is when there's a fluid feedback loop, i.e. aluminum wastewater recycling

[violet halo]

I was trying to think of more than just that as an example when you said it.

[amber umbra]

Idk what recycled loop OP is referring to.

[fringe seal]

there's sulfuric acid recycling during uranium process
and distilled silica has a water feedback loop

[violet halo]

It could be a few things, my thought is the rubber to plastic loop.

[warm bane]

Yes, plastic/rubber

[jolly furnace]

does this work? I found this design online but for some reason it doesnt seem to work on my end

[violet halo]

I think the wiki has a picture of a good one.

[jolly furnace]

ah okay, ill use that one

[prisma kraken]

so, after an hour of letting things run with an experiment set up to measure stuff, it looks like i'm burning around 45 fuel/min (going to run some longer duration tests to get better accuracy), but here's what my fuel supply drone port lists:

like c'mon its like a power of 10 off, lol

additionally, it is even more off than it seems because my 45/min counts the fuel the port gives to the drones

[steel knot]

I think the bit on the top left should be on the top right. So you hold left to stay in the loop and press right to exit it and the upper U and lower U should match up exit to entrance

The exit of the bottom U should have two options: re enter or cannon

[steel knot]

Reporting bug? Or factory math?

Like the drones are over reporting their usage?

[jade acorn]

The Diluted Fuel alternate recipe is absurdly unbalanced! I just set up sixteen (16!) fully overclocked fuel generators, that's 10 gigawatts of power, running off a single 300/min crude node. This is without a single somersloop too, I could quadruple this and then double it again if I fully overclock the extractor!

[steel knot]

I wonder how they weigh the “hassle” of being near water

[unborn ermine]

Seeing that most oil is near water, its rather interesting.

and even areas like the desert canyons south of dune desert, you can sneak some extractors in the geothermal pools.

[jade acorn]

Plus with somersloops you could keep fuel output the same and cut the number of extractors you need in half.

The blenders for this want 800 water/min total, with sloops you could cut that to 400 and only need two extractors

Blue crater and spire coast have enough water and crude nodes that you could never need to go nuclear

[brisk smelt]

ehhh i don't think you would want somersloops on petrochems, you can get like 30k products outta the map thats more than enough

the overall sink point/sloop is pretty low too

[past reef]

if you want to sloop something that should either be SAM or nuclear rod or at least bauxite products

[limpid urchin]

You only need like a 1000 reanimated Sam in total though

[jade acorn]

I'm about to finish tier nine with only ever having tapped one bauxite node, so yeah

[brisk smelt]

in total, using what?

[limpid urchin]

Like for the research

[brisk smelt]

but for production

my warp drive production uses like 30% of the map's sam already

more like 20% but

[limpid urchin]

Ah mb it's used for more stuff

I looked it up

I thought Sam was only for the depot research and building them

[past reef]

If you do anything t9 serious scale the map can only accomodate 2

[brisk smelt]

huh accomodate 2 what

[past reef]

Bauxite restriction is worse though

[brisk smelt]

no, imo bauxite is more than enough

14k ingots is plenty

[prisma kraken]

not 100% sure, i think it is a combo between bad data gathering and possibly some bad math in the drone port code

[past reef]

Like recycling all plutonium rod, max alien matrix for augmenter, 10s of t9 space elevator parts etc.

[prisma kraken]

i was poking at it earlier to get a handle on how much fuel i'm actually using right now

[brisk smelt]

isn't the alien matrix ROI ridicously low for how much sam it takes

like, better spent on nuclear rods

[prisma kraken]

the matrixes really don't take much sam

[steel knot]

Roughly how many drones do you have going how many km? I’m surprised that packaged regular fuel works out. I was hesitant to use even packaged turbo

[prisma kraken]

without slooping games, you're looking at 600/min raw sam for each APA

[brisk smelt]

power shard, SPO are kinda heavy no?

[past reef]

The entire process is dark matter positive, no need for extra sam except fluctuators

[prisma kraken]

atm i'm using drones for a couple of short hops to bridge some gaps in my train network and to deliver tractor/truck fuel to stations that are bridging other short range stuff that trains aren't the best for. All in all it really isn't a ton of drones

[steel knot]

Got it. I had some spare uranium rods but nothing automated so I’m thinking of setting up dedicated fuel or batteries

But same. Just a few drones for essential direct path stuff

[brisk smelt]

use plutonium rods, generally a tad better

if you plan to recycle the waste

[prisma kraken]

it is more that i'm seeing reports from ports like this and just know that 300 fuel goes pretty quick if each port is using 20/min

[steel knot]

Yeah I haven’t set up plutonium reactors yet but I have the rods sunk after filling an ISC

So currently no waste piling up

[prisma kraken]

there's really no easy way in the game right now to get any vision into how often drone's are making a trip

[steel knot]

Yeah that’s sus

I wonder if it has to do with landing/load/unload

[past reef]

On my observation if you force the manifold to back up on 1 drone system, drones will move the least, but wont be sure how much down time

[steel knot]

You can use one drone to distribute to multiple ports??

[past reef]

Nah 1 port to multiple drones

[steel knot]

Or do you just chain them on fuel ports

Got it

So a transport drone will have a fuel port next to it being fed

[past reef]

Yeah pretty much, as long as the port supplying fuel not have drone placed on it the system wont deadlock

Actually for fuel it doesnt matter but its best to leave the depot ports open

[warm bane]

I'm pretty sure the throughput on the drone port (as well as the fuel/min given) is calculated as if your drone is constantly flying, while drones might actually spend a lot of time docked at destination waiting to unload
Since your consumption is smaller than your input, you have the drone delivering fuel waiting a lot of the time at the destination, waiting to unload (which isn't taken into account by the numbers in the interface).
That's what I think is happening, so I tend to take the fuel/min indicated by drone port as more of an upper bound of my consumption, which tends to be quite a bit lower

[oblique venture]

why is rocket fuel so good?? just 600 crude oil and some other things makes 518,000 mW

with only 10 refineries and 4 blenders

Nitro rocket fuel is just a little good

and that is not even using oil->heavy oil residue->fuel, just using oil-> fuel

am I missing something?

[wary rapids]

let me show you

[oblique venture]

I think the wiki has the wrong power output for rocket fuel

[wary rapids]

This is a basic diuted fuel plant , no matter what your doing with oil you will start like this makeing fuel as effecently as possible

[wind spade]

which page? and how wrong?

[wary rapids]

the gg should be right.

[oblique venture]

I may be mis-interpretting it

under the fuel generator page

[wind spade]

and what's wrong with that? seems right

[wary rapids]

that's right

[prisma kraken]

i think something like that is happening, i agree. It still doesn't change the fact that it would be really useful in the game to see a consumption rate that is accurate.

[wary rapids]

a generator burns less fuel so not only do you have more fuel it burns better.

when you make tubro fuel you get less fuel but it burns better.