math-and-meta

[leaden cosmos]

If you have less it just takes longer

[thorn trellis]

U can hit it with 1 per minute

Just would take ages

[amber jacinth]

I did 300/m of each myself, and endgame goals were reasonable, using that production in a bunch of places across my factories

[thorn trellis]

All depends on u

[brisk smelt]

only using 400 oil to get to endgame?

certainly ambitious

[thorn trellis]

Indeed

[thorn trellis]

Wait no u read that wrong

400 plastic 400 rubber 400 fuel

Which is alot more oil I think could be wrong

[brisk smelt]

no, that uses 400 oil

a total of 1200 end products

[fringe seal]

there's a certain set of alts that makes this possible

[unborn dome]

Yeah 400 oil input using the diluted/recycled cycle. So you think that's a really small amount?

[thorn trellis]

I think ur probably able to use more

[unborn dome]

Oh yeah, I could use more, but I don't want to spend time building a massive refinery that I don't end up using half of

So I'm trying to get a sense of what's actually reasonable

[thorn trellis]

Well u will prob use more then 400 of each but if u want to use less that’s ur decision

[topaz hedge]

manifold nuclear is best nuclear

[brisk smelt]

whatthefuck

are they like

floating in the air

the machines

oh nvm i see the foundations

[unborn dome]

Now if I could just get the recycled rubber and heavy oil residue alts... I've been trying to save-scum a hard drive for literally the last three hours with no luck.

[brisk smelt]

you can just give yourself via scim

btw save scumming doens't work anymore iirc

[topaz hedge]

not floating

[unborn dome]

It does, but you have to save before you start the scan

[thorn trellis]

Bro ur crazy that looks like way too much work

[unborn dome]

So basically load the save, wait 10 minutes, see what you get, rescan it, if neither are good, reload the save, wait another 10...

[brisk smelt]

can't you just cheat yourself all the alts if you really feel like it

[thorn trellis]

Sir

[topaz hedge]

to each their own.

[unborn dome]

I don't really want to cheat per se

Save scumming doesn't feel as cheaty lol

[brisk smelt]

ah, double standards

[topaz hedge]

it just cost you time.

time that could be spent looking for another hdd :/

but like, if you're doing other stuff and you're just idle playing factory, then it makes sense.

[brisk smelt]

by any chance, those are non-overclocked...?

that looks like an awful lot of machines

[topaz hedge]

everything is overclocked, even the reactors. 72 reactors at 200% to make 320GW

360*

[brisk smelt]

hm thats weird my 600-700 GW factory looks like 10x smaller

[topaz hedge]

I just wish they had fixed this...

[brisk smelt]

whats broken

[topaz hedge]

it's clean, no plutonium waste.

[brisk smelt]

oh, the "ocean" with no water

ah i see

[topaz hedge]

also, I've done everything on site from raw vs bringing in finished parts

so control rods, ai limiters, stators, crystal osc are all made there.

even smelting. but yeah, I really wish they would've fixed the ocean there.

[ember fractal]

Yah, different electronics, and also nuclear power

[thorn trellis]

I’ll prob skip using it on electronics

I’m gonna have so much plastic and rubber

[topaz hedge]

plutonium processing. uranium fuel rods can be made without silica.

nuclear power all the same tho

[ember fractal]

some nuclear alts use silica

[thorn trellis]

I’ll use a lot of silica for alum prob

[brisk smelt]

wwhaaa

[ember fractal]

I never bother with silica for alum. Always just go sloppy -> electrode

[brisk smelt]

please don't ever use silica aluminum

[thorn trellis]

I mean the ingots

[topaz hedge]

you can burn all your quarts and get more :p

[plucky violet]

theres something confusing with my foundary setup, and i might just have to give up on it.
Rn it 'sort of' works, but idk how.
I give it enough iron, it runs low on iron.
I give it half the coal they need, they're all filled 100% with coal.
Its the twlight zone over here XD
i need 375.75 steel/min and i assume i need 250.5 iron ingot AND coal for that right? Using the solid steel recipe.

[brisk smelt]

if you need that much aluminum, chances are you also need that much quartz

[topaz hedge]

pure aluminum.

[spare jolt]

Gaze upon my works, ye mighty and despair, for my brain hath created this abomination unto man. But thou shall fear not, for it only maketh the bringer of death upon your hogs and spitters and stingers.

[thorn trellis]

Doesn’t that give less

[ember fractal]

pure alum is just so much simpler, and easier to blueprint

[thorn trellis]

Fair

But like what other use does quartz have

[brisk smelt]

no, because you can get 11000 alum from bauxite, minumum without sloops

[topaz hedge]

electronics.

[brisk smelt]

if you need even more than that, you need the quartz for something else

[thorn trellis]

Oh wait isn’t it for diamonds or smt

[topaz hedge]

you have to use silica for some electronics to finish the game.

I think.

[thorn trellis]

Have to?

[brisk smelt]

you can yeet silica entirely out of the supply chain if you wanted

[thorn trellis]

Doesn’t plastic work

[topaz hedge]

why not use quarts?

[thorn trellis]

Cuz I have too much plastic

[ember fractal]

1/4 of my alum factory is complete, making 4800 ingots so far
once it's all built, I'll be making 19,200 ingots lol

[vapid gorge]

the RCU is the only item in the game that bottle necks you from needing any crystal I'm pretty sure

[ember fractal]

I'll need tons of RCUs, maybe like 100+

[thorn trellis]

What’s rcu

[topaz hedge]

meh.. I just need a lot of everything..

[vapid gorge]

radio control unit.

all of it's alts needs some form of crystal

[thorn trellis]

Ah

[vapid gorge]

I don't know the new 1.0 recipes off the top of my head but I don't think any of them forces you to use crystal in any way

[thorn trellis]

Yep

All need quartz

[topaz hedge]

using some quarts can make other stuff easier to produce.. what I don't know

[thorn trellis]

I’m assuming the last is better?

Material wise

[topaz hedge]

eh

it's a sliding scale.. more quarts for less aluminum.. more aluminum more quarts

[thorn trellis]

Less quartz

[vapid gorge]

depends what you're going for

[brisk smelt]

RCS is best weighted out/in

[vapid gorge]

I think the alts use less Alum?

if that's your goal then its 'better'

[thorn trellis]

I assume aluminum u have an abundance of

[topaz hedge]

like the middle uses the least amount of quarts I believe but a shit load of aluminum

[vapid gorge]

it's... not hard to get LOTs of alum

[topaz hedge]

it's easy to run out though o.o

[thorn trellis]

Prob better to use more of that then quartz right?

[brisk smelt]

there's 11k of it on the map

[vapid gorge]

eh, make one big alum factory and you're good to go

[topaz hedge]

to run out of any resource you pretty much have to do a mega build, so unless you're chasing points.. I wouldn't worry about it.

[vapid gorge]

maybe? it's harder to cut out alum than it is crystal.

again, you could build everything, start to finish, and use only a couple hundred quartz

there's lots of alum guzzler recipes though

[prisma kraken]

12300, limits changed with the 1200 belt

[thorn trellis]

Would imagine so

[prisma kraken]

i think bauxite is the only ore that didn't get any map changes in 1.0

well, nitrogen is technically untouched even though they shifted the god well off to the side a bit

did that happen in 1.0 or u8?

[unborn dome]

Is that the one near the blue crater that's all pure nodes?

[prisma kraken]

yeah

i kind of wish they had made the natural road that that was in the middle of a more gradual incline as well - tricky spot for routing train tracks

[plucky violet]

Today i learned something that probably would of failed me the FICSIT interview for not knowing.
Using correct tiers of belts and actually connecting your machines to your factory makes production WAY higher!

[thorn trellis]

It also makes production work

[bleak ivy]

need help understanding something to do with trains

is it actually possible to get the maximum throughput of 2 belts? (say 960/min with tier 4 belts)

because you’d need constant flow on both ends, but items don’t move out of the station storage when the train is docked which means there’s downtime

is there a way to get around this beyond just adding more train cars?

[pastel obsidian]

It's about 1.5 belts

Little lower or higher depending on the stack size and speed of the belts

Most people recommend doing one belt for saving yourself the hassle

[thorn trellis]

More cars the more per min

[bleak ivy]

it’s not the end of the world i think, i have a setup producing 960/min of several parts which are all just being transported by train

but i can just upgrade the belts at the destination right

[unborn dome]

Is it typical to run trains of all one thing? Different items per car and just have each train setup to visit different pickup/dropoff locations?

[pastel obsidian]

You can mix and match depending on your needs

[plucky violet]

I think so? Wouldnt that just be a simple long distance transport of items?

[vapid gorge]

yeah do 1 belt per platform unless you want to do math. And even then you might get less depending on stack size and round trip time

[plucky violet]

1000 smart plating is made automated!
My first play though i manually craft those X'D

[pastel obsidian]

There is a formula you can use for the max throughout of one platform floating around and a graph

[bleak ivy]

i’ll likely just do this

will be tier 7 soon so if i put mk5 belts on the unloading station i think that would probably work?

[pastel obsidian]

You should be all good

[plucky violet]

Now my factory is slowly working, is there a point to save ingots? Made a small space for storage for them, iron, copper, steel

[pastel obsidian]

It would be at both ends

[pastel obsidian]

Not really

It can be useful having a box of copper when you get aluminum first unlocked

[plucky violet]

This might sound odd, but out of curiosity, using smart splitters and other stuff, could we potentially create logical circuits using belts?

[pastel obsidian]

Most people use them for the overflow feature so they can sink the excess

[unborn dome]

It looks like Diluted Packaged Fuel and Diluted Fuel are more-or-less the same ratios, just that the former takes more steps?

[pastel obsidian]

Yep

[unborn dome]

I'm debating going the packaged route, but somehow design my refinery to be expandable later by removing the packaging step and replacing it with blenders to free up space for more everything else, but I'm not sure just how much space it'll free.

[pastel obsidian]

I think it's worth it

But it really is up to you

[weak brook]

is there a good manifold calculator for the time it will take for the system to fully saturate?

[cedar mica]

Rocket fuel burns at 4.16667 per minute, which OC would that be, to get a clean 10 per minute? 2.4x is 10.000008 per minute, which I'm guessing means the grid will stutter every so often, because the generators slightly overconsumes?

[ember fractal]

I just OC 200%
72 Fuel Gens at 200% will consume 600 rocket fuel

36 Fuel Gens at 200% for 300 rocket fuel

[cedar mica]

For 36 fuel gens at 200%, I get 300.00024 consumed per minute. So same issue?

[unborn dome]

Iirc the game stops after 3-4 decimal places(?)

[cedar mica]

For a manafold, that last 0.00024 over, probably means the last 1-2 gens have issues getting enough fuel?

[cedar mica]

The data shows 4.16667 for rocket fuel, so it probably tracks that accurate at least?

[prisma kraken]

3 generators burn 12.5 RF/min at 100%

6 - 25/min; 24 - 100, etc

[cedar mica]

Same thing with 3 gens, 12.50001.

[unborn dome]

I guess it depends on how it gets rounded. Keep in mind the 66667 is also rounded, and is actually 6666666 repeating into infinite, because it's representing a 2/3 fraction.

[cedar mica]

Guess its as easy as making the last gen in the manafold, a slightly lower clock, so you are slightly over producing and just accept it will backup.

[unborn ermine]

Hmm, blocks of 72... That would make me have 288 gens here, since I am siphoning off rocket fuel for packages to make it exactly 2400

[unborn dome]

Well, that's not quite right, x.16667 is not 2/3, but same idea with repeating decimals.

[ember fractal]

Fractions

[unborn dome]

Yep lol

0.16667 is what, 1/6?

EDIT: Yup tis

[unborn ermine]

Yeah and rocket fuel is 25/6

[unborn dome]

I guess the question is how many decimal places the game uses internally, even if it only shows three or four?

[ember fractal]

It should work ™️

[pastel obsidian]

Just double it to be sure

[ember fractal]

You can actually type 1/6*100 into the machine's % box, and press enter. It will clock it exactly as needed.

[cedar mica]

Since we build manafold, just keep an eye on the last 2 in the row. If the math is of, it will show as stutter on those two, once the manafold is full.

[unborn dome]

I just tested another way, if you hit N to open the search box thing and do "6 * 0.16667", if you add enough 6s before the 7, it eventually just says 1, no decimals after it.

[ember fractal]

Let's say you want a machine running at 33.333333%
You can type 1/3*100 into the % text box

[unborn dome]

That's interesting, I didn't know it accepted math operations

[ember fractal]

Yah, neat little trick to get the exact clock speed

I think it will still display the rounded number, but internally it's supposed to work at the proper speed

[unborn dome]

I'm debating building out my aluminum factory first, before my big oil refinery (got a very very basic one atm), just so I can unlock blenders and do diluted fuel right off the bat, rather than messing with diluted packaged fuel.

[ember fractal]

For sure, get the blenders and that diluted alt first

[unborn dome]

Just gotta decide on a location. I'm seeing a spot in the Titan Forest with a ton of bauxite nodes, and some coal not too far away either.

[pastel obsidian]

You can use Petro coke as well just food for thought

[cedar mica]

At 250% OC, you need 57.59... Fuel gens for 600 Rocket Fuel. Last one gets 6.249525, or just slight under 150% OC. Might be the easiest setup?

[unborn dome]

You could always have it set up so that you just have a bit of rocket fuel overflow that isn't running into a generator. Package it and then use it for jetpack/vehicles?

[cedar mica]

The problem with packaging it, is that you need Aluminum Ingots available, to make the Empty Fluid Tank. Thats an outside chain.

[pastel obsidian]

Just tell yourself you will do it one day

[unborn dome]

Yeah, I might do that later. Problem right now is without the aforementioned big oil refinery that I haven't built yet, it's a chicken-and-egg scenario. Don't want to build the big refinery without blenders and that diluted fuel alt, but then don't have petro coke for the electrode scrap alt.

[ember fractal]

I prefer a dedicated rocket fuel factory for power and a dedicated one for packaging.

Not a fan of siphoning off

[pastel obsidian]

Op has 1/6 isn't a lot of fuel also you can't do overflow with rocket fuel like you can with liquids

[unborn ermine]

This is what I did no regrets.
THOUGH
I handfed some machines at my base to get a LOT of aluminum to get a decent bit of mk5 for my aluminum plant.
(scrap sucks and I wanted 780/min from my pure nodes )

[ember fractal]

1200 from pure or go home

[unborn dome]

I did sameish, but bought a bunch of alclad sheets with coupons to get the jetpack unlocked and the mk5 belts available

[pastel obsidian]

Build something small and dirty for the belts and milestones and upgrade it later

[cedar mica]

A dedicated Rocket Fuel factory for power, can backup, without issue, as its a straight forward chain.

[unborn ermine]

Imagine spending tickets

[unborn dome]

It looks like the electrode scrap recipe is actually less efficient, but the advantage is you can use petro coke?

Like it seems the default coal recipe is actually better, assuming you have coal available.

[pastel obsidian]

Don't you want to nut

[unborn ermine]

nope

[unborn dome]

Ah, I see it also stretches the bauxite further?

[unborn ermine]

Example from my aluminum setup.

first is regular, second is electrode scrap.

[ember fractal]

Sloppy + electrode is kinda meta at this point

[unborn ermine]

To really maximise, you want to suffer by adding silica to the electrode setup

[pastel obsidian]

What else are people doing with quartz

[ember fractal]

Not worth the return on investment imo
Can get better results by slooping a few electrode refineries

[unborn dome]

It's not so much doing something else with it as that it greatly complicates the logistics of the aluminum manufacturing process imo

[cedar mica]

Crystal Oscillators? Used in lots of high end parts.

[unborn ermine]

Ive got a nice clean setup atm, wont be slooping

[ember fractal]

Mass producing crystal oscillators can make a lot of other chains simpler

[unborn dome]

Oh interesting, sloppy electrode is actually a 1:1 ratio of bauxite to bars.

[ember fractal]

Yah makes the math easier

[unborn dome]

So yeah, maybe I'll make it with coal first, just to get started, but just OC some refineries to support that, and swap it over to petro coke once I have that available by train from the big refinery, once it exists, to boost my aluminum production.

[pastel obsidian]

I can understand that

I'm just a Petro coke fanboy

[unborn dome]

What tends to get used more in other item recipes, alclad aluminum sheets, or aluminum casings?

[unborn ermine]

Yes.

Alts use casings more.

[vale wyvern]

train throughput question: 1200pm - Single industrial buffer enough? seems to fill before the train makes a round trip? or adding another train to the same circuit? or both?

[unborn ermine]

Its like rubber and plastic when it comes to alt recipes

[unborn dome]

Yeah tricky to decide on a ratio up front...

[unborn dome]

Depends on how much you're producing of the liquid being loaded

[vale wyvern]

input is 1200pm... not liquid

mk6 belts

[unborn dome]

Oh you said buffer and I assumed liquid. Depends on how much of the item you're producing then.

[vale wyvern]

producing 1200pm

but its backing up with 2x MK6 inputs into the platform

[unborn dome]

Yeah you may want multiple trains then. Or more cars on the same train. Don't forget the platforms block their inputs when the train is loading.

[vale wyvern]

copy more trains it is

[unborn dome]

More trains never hurt anyone

Just make sure you've got enough distance between trains to load/unload

[prisma kraken]

more the point is that you need to put storage containers next to the train platforms to buffer & burst the content to compensate for the 27.08s lockout where belts stop

[vale wyvern]

yeah I have... industrial storage container with 2x MK6 belts connecting to the freight platform

double the input rate of 1200 per minute

its just the freight platform and storage container are filling faster than the trains can cart them away (consumption rate at the other end is 1200 as well)

was just wondering if stacking industrial containers would avoid the need to add another train

probably not

[unborn dome]

Nope, just gives you a brief reprieve before they fill up, if the trains aren't taking them away fast enough.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, more trains or more cars that you split the load between, either works. sometimes one solution is preferable to the other

[unborn dome]

I'd probably prefer more cars unless your trains are already too long

[vale wyvern]

yeah i did something experimental and regretting it... hoping to tweek it to work without a total redo

ill link it in screenshots lol

[prisma kraken]

what i've generally taken to doing is making every train 4 frieght cars long regardless, and splitting whatever i'm shipping between them to be merged on the other side

[unborn dome]

Do you have any cases where you've needed to use multiple trains to carry the same items to the same locations?

[prisma kraken]

oft times you're going to split a train's output into 2 or 4 anyway, so it really isn't much extra belting

several

[pastel obsidian]

If you are using an ungodly amount of copper powder

[prisma kraken]

i have a rubber factory making 3600/min (4 cars of 900) and that requires 2 trains

i also have a long haul limestone train that's moving 2400 (4x600) which requires 2 trains on the route

[vale wyvern]

@unborn dome in future I wont be arranging my platforms like that lol

[harsh mica]

huh is that a really long railway or why it took 4 wagon for transport 3600/min

[prisma kraken]

copper powder stacks to 500, you'd have to be making an ungodly amt of pasta to exceed a single train's worth

[pastel obsidian]

It could be a long distance

[prisma kraken]

really you need to be moving a lot of a 500-stacker to exceed a single train

my concrete train is on a pretty long loop moving 4320/min, and that's fine

[pastel obsidian]

I more so meant the copper ingots that are required for a copper powder factory

[vale wyvern]

I found the longer the route (especially on a high traffic network) the delays at intersections and so on has caused some evenly spread out trains to bunch up.

how have you forced the spacing of trains?

[prisma kraken]

it makes multiple stops, dropping off at the hmf, heatsink, concrete factories and then my sink station

i don't enforce spacing at all, they bunch up and they spread out on their own. i keep pretty even block signalling lengths throughout the train network and very fine grained signalling in congestion spots and then just let them do their thing

most of my nonchalance with it is that i keep things well under theoretical capacity

i do spot check stations now & then to make sure the transfer rates are what i expect

[pastel obsidian]

I do wish you could check stations like you drone ports on the map

[vale wyvern]

makes sense... trying to maintain maximum throughput on an over complicated arrangement of stations and trains would be much easier just dividing them between more stations for higher throughput capacity

[prisma kraken]

the platforms have a ui similar for i/o rates, but it isn't very exact, especially if you have multiple trains on a loop

it's exact enough that you can tell if you have a missing belt somewhere, but i've rarely ever seen the ui report the exact transfer rate

[fierce thistle]

Hey, I'm pretty new. I want to better understand the water pumps/coal generators combo. I was able to fit seven pumps inside a pond with eight generators and they seem to shut off because the water pressure isn't pumping enough. I added a bunch of those pumps to direct the water also but it doesn't do a great job. I'm wondering if there's a trick to it.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, if you check the pinned messages here in the channel, you'll find McGalleon's pipe guide with an entire section devoted to coal gens

[fierce thistle]

Ahh thank you. I shall do that.

[pastel obsidian]

Overclock a pump to 150% and connect it to 4 coal gens is my 2 cents

[prisma kraken]

there's a trick to it, for sure, the guide will set you straight

(and there's a ton of different solutions)

i build it in a standard 8+3 configuration with the pumps injecting water into the manifold at the ends & middle so that i can clock the entire plant up to 250% later in game

[pastel obsidian]

!Wikisearch CG

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=CG

[prisma kraken]

(pretty much what's in the top picture there)

[woeful flame]

Internet was out for 3 weeks so I didn't have access to Satisfactory Tools. Was so happy to start working on a real nice Oil Rig today

[prisma kraken]

in any event, the pipe guide explains it in more detail than the wiki

[unkempt fable]

Yo I've been playing for a bit now but I'm not great at some of the much more technical tricks and stuff, is there any place where I can find some of the ways people do things in detail cos I've been trying to figure some things out but haven't had much luck

[pastel obsidian]

I do wish the game had a better tutorial on pipes, even if it had ADA tell you that there is something wrong

[woeful flame]

there are loads of guides on youtube. try to look up one thing at a time. My two biggest pieces of advice are to 1: build everything on foundations that are aligned to the world grid (hold control when placing a foundation to align it to the world grid), and 2: Focus on producing one product at a time in small quantities for a while

[pastel obsidian]

Personally go join some of the multiplayer worlds and see how people have solved different problems

[unborn dome]

Have you seen the diluted fuel process for oil? Yields are much higher per unit of crude oil.

[woeful flame]

I have but I'm not sure if I have the recipe yet

[unborn dome]

Yeah, you do need a few alt recipes for it

[woeful flame]

I have plenty of room on the platform I built for more refineries so maybe I'll try to pick it up

[unborn dome]

That's how it works - 1:1 ratio of crude oil to each of the rubber/plastic/fuel outputs

[woeful flame]

holy moly

I really want circuit boards but I know how to adjust the calculator to still produce them

I don't have the Blender yet, so that will have to wait quite a while

[unborn dome]

I think you'd just up the heavy oil residue and residual rubber production a bit for circuit boards

[unborn dome]

Yeah that's my problem too. I was going to build a big oil refinery, but I'm now planning on doing the aluminum factory first to unlock the blender. The Diluted Fuel alt can be replaced with Diluted Packaged Fuel, but that takes up way more space.

[woeful flame]

"Well if I unlock one more thing, it'll be more efficient", and you follow that logic so far that you put off Stator production until tier 7

[harsh mica]

I mean you need 2 packager and 1 refinery + 50MW for diluted fuel pack also instead 0.6 blender + 45MW

both space requirment is close to me

[unborn dome]

The only stator production I have is part of my motor assembly. I'm not actually creating any extra ones...

[woeful flame]

that's probably how I'll be once I set up my motors. I've put a looooooot of stuff off because I wasn't able to use all the tools that are online

[spare jolt]

Hey. Do blueprints preserve over- and underclocking in them?

[harsh mica]

I think mostly I want to use diluted package fuel is I don't want to deal with water pipes

[unborn dome]

Then it's just a lot more belts instead 😦

[harsh mica]

yes

[harsh mica]

so ye just personally perference , I think diluted fuel package mostly pros are earlier to unlock and less total pipes need

[pastel obsidian]

You still need the pipes for the packages

[unborn dome]

I did motors in my HMF factory, since with a bunch of alt recipes, almost everything can be distilled down to steel pipes and wire.

[woeful flame]

I'll keep that in mind. After I build my oil rig I'm gonna go back to planning my mega-factory that replaces lots of what I currently have, plus some stuff I don't

[prisma kraken]

and concrete. butt-tons of concrete.

one thing i'm finding pleasantly different in 1.0 is that you no longer need HMF's resource requirements to be biome-strattling

in u8 and previous, if you tried building heavy encased frame in it's natural 45/min size, you'd always end up something like 60/min short on pipe

i always had to build motors & hmf's in two separate biomes and import some pipe from motors into the hmf factory

[vast jungle]

just be careful that none of the outputs block, otherwise all three might block

[prisma kraken]

i'm somewhat surprised at how good of a spot blue crater ended up being

being able to get 90/min hmf out of it is fricking great

[vast jungle]

90 HMF/min? WOW...

[prisma kraken]

tbh, except for the concrete, the resources have been pretty modest

[vast jungle]

I plan to built my "Tier 7/8" powerplant there... its a great spot if you kill all the spiders.

[prisma kraken]

i'll say it again, iron alloy is really good

[vast jungle]

yes, Iron Alloy has become really nice in 1.0

[prisma kraken]

i'm wondering if when they made the original copper & iron alloy recipes that at some point someone transposed the recipe numbers and it was always supposed to be like it is now

[vast jungle]

Copper Alloy has always been quite good, but Iron Aloy really needed that boost

its insane how good it is together with Iron Wire when compared to normal Wire

[prisma kraken]

it never made any sense to use

[spare jolt]

this bad boy is so big it can't even show all the missing resources

[prisma kraken]

btw, iron alloy and copper alloy now work quite well when used together

[vast jungle]

my "basic Resource" BP factory (produce some basic iron and copper stuff for DD) uses a single Copper Alloy and Iron Alloy foundry as the start

much more compact than using Smelters

[prisma kraken]

this chain is pretty wow:

[vast jungle]

I would only use Iron Pipe if I really don't have any Coal nearby... Steel Ingots get really cheap with Pure Iron and Solid Steel

[prisma kraken]

yeah, this is mod frame though. being able to use steeled frame to save on the rips allows you to burn the iron on pipe

[vast jungle]

it just depends on the proportion of available iron vs coal...

[prisma kraken]

the iron outlay for mod frame is mostly in the iron plate

[vast jungle]

I am working in the Rocky Desert at the large lake... 3 Pure Coal and 3 Pure Iron nearby... so I went all-in on Steel production

its just funny that endgame steel is more limited by Coal than by Iron

[prisma kraken]

that and iron glenn in NF are the 2 natural places on the topside of the map that aren't DD as a whole

i have a feeling when i start thinking about time crystal in bulk, there's just going to be particle colliders all over the place, lol

[vast jungle]

whats also interesting is that with Iron Wire you can put all Tier 5/6 Copper Ingots directly into Steamed Sheets... until Copper Powder comes along in Tier 7/8

[prisma kraken]

have to see if i can bp something clever with a drone port & collider

[vast jungle]

colliders are large beasts, but the upper part is quite thin, so it could work... but I would most likely put the drone port outside the BP.

[prisma kraken]

we'll see, i'm not thinking about that stuff yet

[vast jungle]

still, Copper Poweder and Nuclear Pasta sounds annoying

[harsh mica]

actually I think using drone might be good enough for nitrogen gas for fused frame and cooling system

hmmmmm

[prisma kraken]

i'm looking at a 60/min pasta goal 😦

[vast jungle]

you could use the same drone to carry back the empty canisters

[harsh mica]

oooo nice

just need to craft a bit container first

[prisma kraken]

drones are very good for moving nitrogen

[harsh mica]

and I realized it's 4 nitrogen per package

unlike fuel and water

[prisma kraken]

and they carry the empties on the return trip

[vast jungle]

all gasses are easier to transport as items, but the containers are more expensive...

[prisma kraken]

use the same mindset for reanimated sam with drones

[vast jungle]

and drones can directly start from underground caves 😉

[prisma kraken]

you only need a max of 4 constructors to boil down a full pure sam node

[vast jungle]

still drones and trucks are annoying because of the fuel

And Trains are annoying because of the size of their stations 😉

[prisma kraken]

i broke down last night and made a packaged fuel factory out on gold coast just for trucks & drones

it isn't something i plan on being a forever factory, just needed something

[vast jungle]

I never could endure trucks... I always skip them and rush trains

[prisma kraken]

the truck sucks, but the tractor is tolerable

[vast jungle]

setting up packaged fuel would be easy... just stamp down 3 blueprints and I have 240/min ^^

[prisma kraken]

i honestly think they could remove the truck from the game and no one would bitch except us americans who seem to prefer driving big unwieldy gas guzzlers

perhaps its capacity is now worth it for 1200/min miners

[vast jungle]

nothing is worth being forced to record long tracks

[prisma kraken]

but i try generally to get some tractors puttering around for the activity and to make things more lively

yeah, i know about where my tolerance point is for that and just won't past a certain point

i have a little route here for busing limestone to a train station

i use them for things like that

sometimes before i have trains really rolling, i'll use them as a temporary stop gap

[vast jungle]

I even have a few streets for my Explorer... but no trucks/tractors 😉

[prisma kraken]

there's always a point as you start building rails where the effort at running the long hauls PLUS a spur is too much at the moment

there's two things that i wish they had tackled as additions before they released 1.0. First is monitoring & stats, second is to make rails less time consuming to build

[vast jungle]

rail building time heavily depends on if you place them on the ground or a little bit above (not wanting to think about sky-trains)

[prisma kraken]

where i find them very time consuming is when dealing with elevation changes

[vast jungle]

it requires a bit pre-planning... or lots of time for ramps/spirals 😄

[prisma kraken]

i don't like spirals. think they look like ass 😛

[vast jungle]

and sometimes you just miss-plan and stand in front of the 100m cliff

ramps along the cliff are normally looking better... or you look for a natural ramp, but they are often too steep

[prisma kraken]

on top of that, spirals just add so much trip time

[vast jungle]

unfortunately extending a train line by two train stations and a belt lift works only for one item type (per train station)... not great

[prisma kraken]

what i would like to see would be the abililty to lay a track at some sort of distance off the ground and then add a method to auto-build foundations under it every x meters automagically to provide snapping points for whatever

that's another thing, train stations are just too dang big, lol

[pastel obsidian]

I think we have been spoilt when it comes to trains in game since trains were introduced to the game

[vast jungle]

I just do this by a BP... I build a single foundation line with ramps that define the middle, then put the foundation-BP below it every 10 foundations

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it depends on how fancy you want to get

i always end up with these sorts of weird little things that look like absolute crap until i fuss with it for hours to make something that doesn't look like minecraft blocks

[vast jungle]

#design-and-architecture message

yes, this kind of "go down to the left/right" need a bit more care to prevent them from clipping too much

[prisma kraken]

some spots are more polished, some i just built

but that's kind of what i mean, it just ends up being so much work to get something you're happy with

building the rails isn't really my focus, just a means to an end

[prisma kraken]

i'm not sure, but i think what i'm building in blue crater may be my largest project thus far in the game

[vast jungle]

nice ring of Fuel Generators

[prisma kraken]

i haven't converted it over to rocket fuel yet, but it's sized for 2000/min

[vast jungle]

2000/min is also the number I am aiming for... 1000/min production and sloops in the final 4 Blenders

[prisma kraken]

this is more or less what i'm aiming for

considering the 40gw of tf has been enough for me so far, i think that'll probably be all the power i need until i start doing stupid stuff™️

i'm eyeing what it'll take to do uranium 3300->ficsonium

i really need a tool that understands sloops

[vast jungle]

this is my plan (without the sloops)

the 10 Blenders on the bottom with be 4 Blenders with OC 250% and a sloop... which will also decrease the compact coal input by another 100/min

I want to build it in 4 stages (except for the HOR production), so I can slowly scale it up

its a funny thought to produce 2000/min rocket fuel with 4 Blenders 😄

[prisma kraken]

yeah, well, i posted this earlier:#math-and-meta message

[vast jungle]

with sloops its a good idea to go for high-output recipes

[prisma kraken]

it was just set up as a box factory cuz i need more

[vast jungle]

packaged nitrogen gas is annoying, but its okay for "LOTS" of Turbomotors 😉

[prisma kraken]

15/min is just kind of like endgame goal stuff, lol

[vast jungle]

but its just 2 Manufacturers

[leaden cosmos]

late to end game, if your doing a number of mk3 miner upgrades 🙂

[prisma kraken]

yeah, the first few mk3 miners are always stuff i buy the parts for, its just when i start going for the nut that i start actually making parts, lol

[dark lagoon]

109

[prisma kraken]

*106

[dark lagoon]

Swear it's 109 but I'm probably dyslexic or something

Close enough or something

[vast jungle]

SCIM says 106

[prisma kraken]

i'm still sort of wondering why they picked that number

i'm thinking there's a layout for ficsonium nuclear that uses all the sloops exactly

[leaden cosmos]

the other thing is that all mercer sphere upgrades are primes 🙂

I mean there are about 15 ways to min-max sloops for ficsonium you dont need many to get the resources manageable

[fringe pawn]

I want to know what would become optimal for points if there were 120 sloops. I have a suspicion it might be singularity skills for more warp drives, instead of AI servers.

[neat bolt]

this. this upsets me

[leaden cosmos]

you know you don't have to full sloop machines right?

[neat bolt]

why does rocket fuel have this... a

[leaden cosmos]

and slooping a later machine can reduce earlier sloop usage and vice versa 😄

[past reef]

Nitro rocket fuel has nice number but cost sulfur and not that even for generator

[fringe pawn]

6 fuel generators per 25 rocket fuel. That works out perfectly?

[neat bolt]

that is the consumption of the generators

[past reef]

Nvm only looped coal system has bad-ish number

[neat bolt]

My rocket fuel is not divisible by 25 :D

[fringe pawn]

Package it? 🤷

[neat bolt]

?

[scarlet gyro]

omg sexy

[neat bolt]

How would that help

[leaden cosmos]

4.16666* per generator 🙂

[fringe pawn]

Use that remainder of 20 for vehicles

Probably enough for a drone to do something. Or save it as jetpack fuel and sink overflow. Eventually prepare to turn it into ionized fuel for your jetpack.

[neat bolt]

I was already exporting a lot xD

Eh, now I am exporting 540 instead ig

oh

rocket fuel is 2 per package

420 it is

how much rocket fuel does a drone use for a trip across the map?

[vast jungle]

1000/4.166666 = 240

[prisma kraken]

probably around 8-10 canisters

[neat bolt]

After some rearranging

Can I sloop packagers?

[prisma kraken]

no, that would be a little broken, lol

[neat bolt]

Sad

But fair.

Is that enough packaged rocket fuel for a sizeable drone network?

[prisma kraken]

package and unpackage to get 4x, it kinda would be cringey broken

probably

it depends on how frequently your drones are making trips

more volume = more trips

[leaden cosmos]

I've got 150/min going for about 50 drones

[neat bolt]

I mean, 10 canisters per trip would mean that is 30 trips per minute

Each drone needs around 2 min per trip, so 60-ish drones

Assuming over the entire map trips for everything

[prisma kraken]

i'm just starting to use drones in 1.0 for the first time

the fuel consumption numbers for them seem a little wacky and i don't understand it yet

doesn't help that the drone ports list 3 different numbers for it and they all disagree, lol

when i try to look up consumption over time in the analytics screen, i find that there is no analytics screen 😦

[neat bolt]

Factorio's analytics screen my beloved

[prisma kraken]

DSP's is great too

[neat bolt]

True

Honestly

If DSP also updates this year, the entire world is gonna grind to a halt XD

[prisma kraken]

of course, by the time your factory has grown in dsp to the point where it's useful, you're at 20 fps, lol

[edgy leaf]

honestly i don't think I could play Factorio or DSP, I couldn't live without 3d and pretty factories

[neat bolt]

A few mods I was watching for Minecraft are not getting updates due to SF and Space Age

[neat bolt]

DSP is 3D tho?

[edgy leaf]

I spent four times as much time making things pretty vs actually building machines

[neat bolt]

that is fair

[prisma kraken]

DSP is 3d, its just you have a flat (sphere?) that's only 1 level for building

[neat bolt]

laughs in overkill pc

[edgy leaf]

not really, you can't build a house and stuff.

[astral warren]

Me waiting for Create Aeronautics for the last 2 years

[edgy leaf]

I'd say even shapez 2 is more 3d and it's incredibly flat

it's more like 2.5d

[neat bolt]

that does not make it 2D, just means you have no decoration options

[prisma kraken]

in that regard, dsp is still changing, they recently added some belt stuff that makes stacking them actually usable

[neat bolt]

Stacking them always was usable, just not to the extent it is in SF

I used a main bus design ala Factorio in DSP, but stacked the belts up high

[prisma kraken]

but you really can't call a game that has the challenge of building to a rectilinear grid projected onto a sphere 2d

[neat bolt]

That and you can stack the buildings up high

Like, very high. Ridiculously high.

https://tenor.com/view/dyson-sphere-program-gif-20179547

[prisma kraken]

really just the labs

[neat bolt]

Labs and storages

To be fair, stackable assemblers would mean you'd never run out of space

[leaden cosmos]

I mean you can really build high in satisfactory 😄

[neat bolt]

Yea

Speaking of SF

[edgy leaf]

you can have decorative options in 2d

but you dont have three dimensional freedom in DSP

[prisma kraken]

its a different game, different systems and if it were like SF, they'd have to cut the size of the star clusters down

[neat bolt]

Those two will be next to each other

[prisma kraken]

sure you do, just build on the other planet!

[neat bolt]

DSP is built around interstellar logistics due to planetary resource and space constraints.

[edgy leaf]

i was saying you can have decorative options in 2d. people do amazing stuff in terraria for example

[prisma kraken]

yeah, they're very different games

[neat bolt]

Satisfactory is built around inter-biome logistics due to resource and GPU constraints

[prisma kraken]

i prefer SF for a lot of reasons, but there are a lot of things DSP does really nicely

[neat bolt]

You can, but the Motherbrain (iirc) does not allow you to :P

[prisma kraken]

Centrebrain, lol

[neat bolt]

DSP lets me build dyson spheres that cast shadows over my entire factory :D

[neat bolt]

That was it

I think mother brain was from metroid

[prisma kraken]

in any case, i'm off to bed, nini all

bingo

[neat bolt]

sleep well

[prisma kraken]

i was biding my time b4 1.0's release with DSP since i didn't really want to have another world wrecked by update, lol

[neat bolt]

Did DSP ever have world breaking updates?

[prisma kraken]

kind of

[neat bolt]

To be fair, it wrecked mine, but I played with mods XD

[prisma kraken]

bp's you make often break btw updates

[edgy leaf]

? whats the motherbrain

[neat bolt]

But waiting to 1.0 is completely fair. If you can't handle things changing (which is completely fine), its better than the people in the steam reviews crying that SF1.0 changed things

[prisma kraken]

they're pretty good with it all between incremental updates, but its a complex game and they can't test everyone's factory for regressions

[neat bolt]

The Centrebrain is not really well defined, but from what we know it is basically the matrix.

[edgy leaf]

what does that have to do with decorative items in terraria

[prisma kraken]

i'm off,, tc all

[edgy leaf]

cya

[neat bolt]

The joke was that while in Terraria you have the freedom to decorate, and even Ficsit allows it, the Centrebrain (who is who sent you in DSP), does not.

[edgy leaf]

ahhh

yea what i was trying to say is that even if there was decorative stuff it wouldnt be the same

which doesnt mean its a bad game, i loved shapz 1, just not my thing

[neat bolt]

yeah

to each their own

[fringe seal]

@edgy leaf I have a proof(?) that shows pumps actually move fluids
#math-and-meta message

[edgy leaf]

isnt the pump the wrong way around?

[fringe seal]

no, the stripey side is facing the pipe that is full

[edgy leaf]

oooh

i get it now

[fringe seal]

it definitely is not headlift, as it is a gas

[edgy leaf]

yea

[unborn ermine]

isnt that just demonstrating no backflow and sloshing?

[fringe seal]

when it was sloshing it showed nothing drastic like that

stayed around half full

[edgy leaf]

no, because in that case both sides should be equal

[unborn ermine]

thats the NO backflow

as in the pump

[edgy leaf]

well, pumps dont prevent backflow

but thats beside the point

if the gas "sees" that the pipe infront of it is 90% full and itself is 10% full, then the gas hsouldnt move to the next pipe

no matter whether or not you have "backflow"

what haxton demonstrated is that the pump makes the fluid blind and traps it on the other side

im 99.9999999% sure that this wouldnt happen with a valve

[fringe seal]

valve shows similar, but to the lesser degree

maybe that's because of the sloshing

[edgy leaf]

the other pipe never fully empties with valves tho

[fringe seal]

yeah

[edgy leaf]

i think i observed the same effects during my bottomfeeding tests

if i place a pump between every single machine then the very last machine fills first

[edgy leaf]

i can quote the pipe manual too. one sec

[fringe seal]

even if the pumps prevent backflow, why the different result from valves

[hazy dagger]

because valves sucks

[hazy dagger]

and you should never use them

[edgy leaf]

they are one directional, yes. but they do not prevent fluids from flowing back.

see.

anyway thats beside the point

[unborn ermine]

Thats explaining a valve not a pump though.

[edgy leaf]

i dont mean "the last one gets the most liquid"

[edgy leaf]

the same happens to pumps. where else would the liquid go?

[edgy leaf]

the last one gets /all/ the liquid

only when the last one is fully filled does the second to last one get a single drop

(bottomfeeding)

this because pumps make the liquid blind

[unborn ermine]

I can prove myself wrong in a sec, my game crashed and thats why im here

[edgy leaf]

it sees it can either go up, to the machine, or straight, to the next pump. it cant see whats behind the pump, only that the pump can take the liquid

[edgy leaf]

imagine the pipe behind the pump is full. the pump will act like a barrier, in the same way that a valve does when the pipe behind it is full

so when new liquid flows to the pump, it either stops moving and no new liquid comes, flows back, or flows through the pump (and exceeds the 600/min limit)

thats why valves dont stop backflow, or pumps.

because the fluid has to flow somewhere

and neither valves nor pumps are magic.

[frosty owl]

Look how they massacred my boy!! 😭
#screenshots message

[unborn ermine]

Pump on, pump off

Not the best demonstration but its a thing that was there already

[edgy leaf]

im not sure what ur point is

[vast jungle]

the crazier the design, the easier it breaks

[fringe seal]

I see now

[edgy leaf]

at least thats what i think

that would explain both your findings and mine when bottomfeeding

being powered only changes the headlift number, the pump also does magic fluid stuff

i think mcgalleon mentioned it? the pump is a machine internally.

the valve isnt afaik.

so the valve has an input and an output and the fluid only sees whether or not the input has space

and then it gets teleported to the output, ocmpletely seperating the two systems

thats why it works as a VOP junction when bottomfeeding but a valve doesnt, because the fluid can still communicate its fill height back to the rest of the system

[frosty owl]

Yeah, well, it wouldn't break if they didn't change recipes without backward-compatibility (like they did when Packagers where introduced)

[edgy leaf]

yea i dont think it broke because its sushi

[vapid gorge]

mod the recipe back in 😛

[vast jungle]

I think its understandable that they broke things when 1.0 released

[frosty owl]

That's actually an interesting thought

[frosty owl]

I appreciate the trust

[vapid gorge]

I plan on modding at least steel coated plates back in

it's just such a fun recipe

[frosty owl]

Wouldn't have expected that ahah

[frosty owl]

Yeah.
But it still hurts

[vapid gorge]

it's just such a complicated way to make the most basic item in the game

[frosty owl]

Oh, check this out: I've "rediscovered" coke steel just because of my fixation with keeping miners and Extractors running and wanting to bring a lot of Oil home so I wouldn't have to go tap more nodes in the future.
To keep the pipes running (withy trains involved), I blueprinted a OIL->Coke->Sink setup and used that to consume all unused oil. So now anytime I need to make Steel and am like "oh no, need more coal! :(" I just tap on the Coke instead 😅

(If I need oil, I clock down or dismantle some coke setups)

[vast jungle]

don't forget about Coke Aluminium Scrap!

[edgy leaf]

i see you're a fellow usa cosplayer too

[vapid gorge]

you brought in a ton of oil just ot sink it's product cause you don't need it yet? xD

[edgy leaf]

big brain move right there

[frosty owl]

Yeah, else anytime I need more oil I have to go to the Oil place and increase the clock on existing Extractors or tap new nodes. Now the oil is all going in already, I just need to fiddle with things on the unloading side, not the loading side

[edgy leaf]

im going to use all the oil

well, unless i burnout first.

[frosty owl]

What do you mean?

[edgy leaf]

you use lots of oil, theres lots of jokes about the usa liking oil

[frosty owl]

Oh. Surprising I didn't catch that 😆

[vapid gorge]

FREEDOM INTENSIFIES

[neat bolt]

recycled rubber and plastic are funny

But hey, 2700 oil to 3600 rubber and 4500 plastic seems like a good starting point xD

[pastel obsidian]

Thats a lot of rubber

[vernal swallow]

Is there a way to make like a splitting with a condition
Like if the storage is full the splitter puts the output to a the awesome shop point maker, but if it isn’t full all of the conveyor belt goes in the storage

I saw there was something like a smart splitter but I am not at that point yet and don’t know what it is

[vapid gorge]

yea hteh smart splitter, you unlock it in the caterium tree in the MAM

[glass token]

Is this the most efficient way to make rubber and plastic?

[neat bolt]

As far as I know, yes

[glass token]

Are those recipes sequential (top to bottom?) like do you start with residual rubber?

[neat bolt]

Give me ten mins and I can send the full production chain

[glass token]

Ah epic

[vapid gorge]

oil to heavy oil residue to diluted fuel to recycled plastic/rubber as you need

[neat bolt]

Yeah, residual rubber + diluted fuel are the inputs

[neat bolt]

By varying the ratio of the recipes you can choose whether you want more (or even only) plastic/rubber

[glass token]

Ahh i see thanks a lot

HOR is so OP

[rotund summit]

anyone use normal battery recipe? how do you deal with the water byproduct?

[vapid gorge]

feed it into a sulfuric acid refinery that only operates on waste

like making aluminium scrap

[rotund summit]

ohhh right u can do it that way

do you think normal battery is more efficient than classic battery recipe?

[vapid gorge]

it's the most reliable way, basically unbreakable

[vapid gorge]

whenever talking about alt efficiency you almost always need to ask 'efficient in what way'

[rotund summit]

oh right in terms of most battery/min

[vapid gorge]

it uses more oil + iron/copper but less sulfur and alum

is that the kind of efficient you want?

[rotund summit]

right i think it just depends on what resources i have available to me at the location i want to build the battery factory

[vapid gorge]

actually sorry, my bad

it uses slightly more alum too

but you don't have to make acid or deal with waste. and it's faster so more compact

at least for that step

[rotund summit]

i see

thank you for your input 🙏

[vapid gorge]

no stress! personally I like it cause it doesn't use fluids and doesn't have waste

[neat bolt]

Production is top to bottom

[vast jungle]

no loop plastic/rubber production, right? Nice 🙂

[neat bolt]

No loop, I decided to be more sequential

I know a loop can be smaller, but that's the only advantage.

No need to complicate things imo

[unborn ermine]

Loops are good for a spread to start storage/building.

[haughty badge]

Is this the correct alt recipe for max production?

[unborn ermine]

Yeah, heavy oil residue, diluted, and blend

If you are going for rocket fuel max output.

[wintry marlin]

damn, just unlocked mk3 miners, and wanted to upgrade my bauxite, but no, no mk6 belts yet...

[haughty badge]

Thanks!~

[empty hornet]

i need a sanity check on my math, because me and satisfactory-calculator currently arent agreeing

trying for 14 pressure conversion cubes per minute, all relevant alternate recipies unlocked

satisfactory calculator says that i need 6.23 manufacturers using Radio Control System to generate 28 Radio Control Units per minute

however, when i look at the output of 4.5 per minute for that recipe, i calculte that i really need 6.66 manufacturers

[frosty owl]

(You can link/share your production plan on SFTools for clarity)

[ashen girder]

Easiest way to get help.

[blissful epoch]

i found that it was all over the place when i tried for 3 cubes and 8 fused frames, while i could do it pretty simple picking my recipes and matching my numbers by hand

[frosty owl]

Is it using the same recipe and not different ones (it might be picking more than one for some reason)?
The tool doesn't do such math errors, so there should be some issue in the recipe selection or input limits

[frosty owl]

You should be able to share the production plan just copy-pasting a link

[empty hornet]

i just tried, and it keeps making it that

[ashen girder]

28/4.5 = 6.22222

[frosty owl]

Jesus... I thought you were using SFTools, not SCIM 😭

[bronze kestrel]

Allright, i'm this far. I did the 2700 crude oil input. Cause that made kind of all the rest easy to split and make. I just need to bring in 1800 sulfur/minit.

I have 150/min crude oil to spill. Since i can make a lot of empty cannisters. Is it posible to feed enough drones with 150crude oil/minit to bring in 1800 sulfur/min.
Anyone got experience with it ? Or should i just belt it across the map ?

[empty hornet]

more than willing to use something else, just dont know what else is out there

[ashen girder]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/ is better for planning factory recipes.

[empty hornet]

i'll give that a whirl, thanks

[ashen girder]

Also, how do you get 6.66?

[frosty owl]

A drone port with a single drone should be able to deliver ~2 stacks/min anywhere on the map (up to ~3/min iirc).
Adding one more drone you can double that and that should be plenty for your needs (150/min VS 400/min)

[pastel obsidian]

look at the drone station

[frosty owl]

I definetly recommend the one you got linked. SCIM can even lead to errors when fluid loops are involved

[brisk smelt]

=450 oil products, like 400 pkg tf/min should be good

[bronze kestrel]

pkg tf ?

[frosty owl]

Packaged Turbofuel

[bronze kestrel]

As i have bin reading you guys answers, i should be fine to create some fuel product out of the spare 150 crude oil. Feed the drones at the powerplant, and collect the sulfur across the map.
thanks boys!

[pastel obsidian]

Are there any other good production planner tools

[bronze kestrel]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/ Pretty sure you are aware of the this one. I use it every day.
Just copy a print screen in paint. And add notes or mark parts finished in paint. Nothing crazy or complicated.

[empty hornet]

i really wish i had come here days ago

[bronze kestrel]

Next wish is, you never came here 🥲

[pastel obsidian]

how i feel about pipes

[empty hornet]

sadly, id rather regret being on the right path than ignorantly on the wrong

[pastel obsidian]

finding out about the world grid would be the worst thing for me and my builds

[empty hornet]

i know about it, and choose to mostly ignore it, because i doubt it would be feasible to convert everything

[pastel obsidian]

it is better that way

[swift robin]

finding the world grid was wonderful for me. helps me a lot

[bronze kestrel]

In the long run it makes things more easy to connect. But there is no "need" for it.

There is plenty of tutorials on YT. if you really want something connected. And i need to look it was never out of place.

[swift robin]

i find it super useful when i have a few factories in one biome that i later will connect. i dont think it matters much anymore when u got drones tho

[amber umbra]

For belts off grid to on grid merging, I find the snapping merger onto a belt with a 90 degree turn looks good. It’s how I get miners transitioned to the world grid.

The snapped merger isn’t on the world grid, but the belt it’s snapped to is.

Technically you can use the same technique to link factories on and off the grid with belts.

[exotic smelt]

Is the mk6 belt throughput from a miner still bugged?

[brisk smelt]

idts

[exotic smelt]

So I can use them normally now?

[ashen girder]

It's never been bugged. It's just very performance sensitive. If your game slows down the belt skips a bit.

[vapid gorge]

I've never had issues with it, you could test yours with an overflow splitter and sink

[exotic smelt]

I'll have a look at it and do some testing.

[vapid gorge]

afaik the cause of that issue is unclear? so good to do a personal test

[edgy leaf]

not sure how you'd do that

an overflow splitter can only take one input, if it skips and the whole belt skips then it wouldnt overflow split because the belt going into it would also skip

am i missing something?

[unborn ermine]

Well thats a yikes for me
My poor PC

[vapid gorge]

line out of a miner to feed stuff, over flow splitter on the line that spitts out over flow to a sink if something is backing it up?

[amber umbra]

If it’s testing for a belt gap, afaik you need a ratio’d production line that needs the full 1200 item/min. then use overflow splitters on the other item to see if the other item’s belt stops flowing at full rate causing overflow into a storage.

Other belt would be a mk 5, etc

[vapid gorge]

or just have a line to a sink, and an over flow early on to a different sink

[ashen girder]

You can test it by just.. watching the belt. 🤣

[edgy leaf]

ooh, u mean to test if its the factory?

[vapid gorge]

or container, to see if anything flows

[vapid gorge]

just the miner

it's how the belt to belt bug was tested aaaggges ago

[bronze kestrel]

Best part of the game

[amber umbra]

I guess it’s a question of which part of the belt is bugged. The actual straight part or the we connection.

[vapid gorge]

yeah you could test after a few belt to belt connections, or right at the start after the miner. I haven't heard anyone doing anything on that

[edgy leaf]

so you have 1200 going into the overflow splitter. that goes down to 1199. the overflow splitter does nothing.

[ashen girder]

As far as I've ever seen, the "bug" is that miners outputting at 1200 sometimes output gaps.

[bronze kestrel]

I never heard about bugged belts, i never had isseus with it. And now since i have read these commends, i'm pretty sure all my next belts will be bugged. Thats the luck i have. thanks guys 🤨

[vapid gorge]

if there was a stutter further along it should cause items to flow down the over flow?

[amber umbra]

Well simplest test is 1 miner, 1 belt segment, 1 sink. No belt belt connections.

[edgy leaf]

ahh, if its further along, yes. but if it affects all belts simultaneously it wouldnt work. or if it affects the belt coming out of the miner

the issues is that the belts further down will probably have less than 1200/min

[vapid gorge]

yeah that's the test, so like this if you put the over flow right after the miner and something is wrong further along you'll at least know by having items in the container

[vapid gorge]

one of the B2B test threads if you're interested #1177543721923911701 message

[amber umbra]

If the issue is the miner-belt connection, then the test setup I used for testing 600 fluid/min pipe bug applies. Wet concrete, monitor the limestone belt for “stutters” via overflow splitter. Any loss in water flow spits limestone out the overflow. Or that style test.

[vapid gorge]

this might be the original thread though #1006573529183027401 message

[sharp cargo]

As a question about manifolds vs balancer design -
Manifolds are limited by the capacity of the belts/pipes, right? So you can't extend them indefinitely, as the end stuff won't receive what it needs.

[vapid gorge]

yes? but so is a balancer

[sharp cargo]

... touuuuuuuuuuuuche

[ashen girder]

Injection manifolds are a thing

[vapid gorge]

Mechanically balancers basically don't offer any advantages (some people think they do for radiation)
they are largely just a cool and impressive thing you can do if you like doing that

[amber umbra]

Injection manifolds kinda meh. Just keep the individual manifolds separate imo.

[brisk smelt]

balancers are good for distributing drone fuel via nuclear rods, not much else.

[sharp cargo]

Well shit. I have some refactoring to do

[brisk smelt]

because saturating 1400 units per drone port is just silly

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure you can have the exact precision needed to deliver just the amount of fuel rods

[amber umbra]

Trains are the other classic balancer usage. 1 belt evenly loading multiple wagons for example.

[vapid gorge]

I guesssss..... I always just do a dedicated belt per platform

[bronze kestrel]

If you build constructors that consume and X amount over the belt limit. Then the further down the line, you constructors won't receive enough materials to process at 100%
Then you will need another input.
I prefer this over load balancing any day. Cause the time you spend on creating load balancing. Is the time your factory needs to fully start up with manifolds.
It's all up to you. But the slowest part in the whole logistics process is what the production speed will decide.

If that makes sense...

[amber umbra]

Early game biomass burners also a balancer niche. Easily forgotten one.

I’m procrastinating planning phase 4 elevator parts…

So for drone fuel, I saw mentions that batteries are still a good option. Thoughts?

[vapid gorge]

really? I just let the constructor saturate it and let it back up

[wind spade]

you rarely need more than one car to transport 1 belt

[vapid gorge]

I imagine it largely depends on if you're already producing something else like turbofuel for them?

Eventualy I'll use P rods for drones

[amber umbra]

I have a big RF plant for purely power. Any drone fuel is going to be built from scratch as next project.

[vapid gorge]

seems pretty up to you then

[amber umbra]

Feels like the Al needs are fine since I’ll want drone fuel more central located. Hmm

[vapid gorge]

I mean 1 drone refueling from a rocket fuel factory can probably power a huge network

[amber umbra]

True. Technical could chop out some generators for RF. But would need to add Al to the plant. I’ll probs just play with batteries since haven’t done that before. Gotta explore the game systems.

What’s the vibe check on drones not needing batteries only? I assume positive overall.

Kinda a big ish change. Feels weird to have played a long time with the not final version of drone fuel.

[vapid gorge]

Eh, it's made batteries kinda pointless now? which is a bit sad. You can just not make them now?

[amber umbra]

True

[vapid gorge]

It's not a huge deal, or a big change.

[amber umbra]

Maybe some balance tuning needed to have a niche for batteries.

[past reef]

yeah classic battery is pretty high effort, normal battery maybe but RF is more drone fuel per nitrogen

[vapid gorge]

the uranium and plutonium rods as fuel is hilarious though

I joked about that ages ago about them being used for drones xD didn't think it'd happen

[amber umbra]

Gives me radio isotope thermal generator vibes from spacecraft. P-238 powered.

[vapid gorge]

well, unless they actually have a full on nuclear reactor on there, those rods would be very bad for power xD

you can have super long life radioactive batteries, but their output is very low

[amber umbra]

Mhm mhm.

[sharp cargo]

I was trying to keep things pretty balanced, but I think I see the value in filling a manifold slightly over the input demand.

[amber umbra]

With the amount they’re used, really getting a handle on manifold based production is advised.

[unborn ermine]

Ive been loving the Depot for filling manifolds

[amber umbra]

Yup, it do be nice. I’m comfortable afking extensively, so I usually fill the manifold by severing the output and letting it run for a few hours.

Maybe sloop the final manufacturer if I want to speed it up.

[sharp cargo]

Oh, so with that in mind, the progression of logistics belt speeds can be an indicator of how long your production clusters are.

like, if you only have mk2, pumping 120/m, you can only have stuff that sums to consuming (just under) 120/m in the chain

[bronze kestrel]

Yes or your factory doesn't work efficient

[amber umbra]

A way I like designing production lines is to design “production columns” scaled for like 1/4 of the eventual belt. Lets you build production at T3 belts then later copy paste that production line multiple times when the miner, belts are upgraded. Instead of extending the individual production lines to be longer.

[sharp cargo]

Is there an easy way to upgrade belts?

[bronze kestrel]

Yes

Select the belt you want, look at the current belt. Click it

[sharp cargo]

Sweet, I'll give that a whirl

[bronze kestrel]

That simple, even with downgrade

[bronze kestrel]

It should highlight

[marsh needle]

figured out how to make way more rocket fuel than is necessary

[unborn ermine]

Rip to all that sulphur

[marsh needle]

it's going to a better place

my jetpack

[unborn ermine]

I still think its crazy that the base recipe with turbo blend is so much cheaper on sulphur.
Im making 2600/min soon with 780

[marsh needle]

yeah I didn't spend all that looking looking at my options but this setup was so much simpler to handle, and all the numbers are nice

building in the blue crater lake next to my existing turbofuel setup, and that uses 900 sulfur, the three nearby nodes happen to have 2100 total, which was my limiting factor for this build, but all the numbers work out so nicely

I had an untapped normal coal node for 600 and there's 450 worth of crude in two nearby oil nodes I wasn't using

I have to pipe the nitrogen in from a fair way away, since I don't want to package and train it or anything

this is enough to run something like 432 fuel generators lmao

but I'm gonna be packaging a lot of it up to run drones on

[unborn ermine]

Comparing recipes, the alt is for sure better if you are lacking oil.

same amount as yours is only a bit over 900/min

[marsh needle]

I haven't looked into how much aluminium I will need to make fluid canisters with

[unborn ermine]

canisters are a 1 to 1 ingot/canister

[bronze kestrel]

Is 1800 rocket fuel more worth then 3600 turbo fuel? Cause i'm about to pull in 1800 sulfur for that. Or am i asking the wrong question here 😁

[unborn ermine]

and then packaged gas is 2:1

[marsh needle]

yeah idk how many canisters I will need or anything, haven't thought that far ahead

[marsh needle]

if you're jsut burning it in generators I'm pretty sure rocket fuel is more than twice as potent

and for any other purpose, also yes

[unborn ermine]

rocket fuel burns at 4.166~/min (25/6)
Turbo is 7.5?

[marsh needle]

yeah you might be right

[bronze kestrel]

Yeah was just asking about the generators. I think turbo feul burns at 7,5. Don't know about rocket fuel

[marsh needle]

I haven't really paid that much attention, I jsut like bigger fancier thing

[bronze kestrel]

Oh there it is

[unborn ermine]

Ive been planning out my rocket fuel gens so the number is sticking

[marsh needle]

I mostly jsut have done two large turbofuel setups in the last few months and want to do a big setup of something else

hyaven't made the rocket fuel yet to research ionized fue

but I might turn a bunch into that

[bronze kestrel]

Haha that's all fine. Was just wondering about the ratio, its math and meta channel after all 😁

[marsh needle]

you raise a valid point

[unborn ermine]

Been hearing things that that would be your jetpack fuel more than anything.
Not much in the way of "final power"

[worn heath]

What's the max throughput of fluids do y'all target in a Mk2 pipe? I understand the max is 600, but I've been hitting some small, but annoying snags, with running a bunch of max out pipes.

[proud totem]

600 through a MKII pipe typically has some issue or another. The reason for this is still somewhat debated, but the general solutions are to:

Not push 600 through the pipe
Include a "loop" such as between the front and the end of your manifold
Add more pumps

I have had the most success with including a loop, in which case you may actually be able to push 600. I have also seen people resolve flowrate issues by adding many pumps, though I am uncertain if this is for sure a fix. A loop can essentially "double" your pipe throughput, since the 600 has two places it can go, even though those 2 places meet again later, but that seems to work well

[tidal dock]

if mixture of multiple sources, I stop around 480. If from one source like Pure oil, I can go full 600. But two lines of 300 is better than a single 600. When you setup 40 refineries that use 1200 oils, you can see how much fuller the pipe before refineries are on two 300s compared to single 600 line.

[proud totem]

I think there is also an issue with floating point numbers that can prevent actual true 600 flow

And yeah, MKI pipes at a full 300 are more stable than MKII at a full 600

[ember fractal]

500 is pretty much guaranteed to work in a Mk2.
600 only works in certain scenarios. For example, oil extractor at 250% on a pure node - make a short Mk2 pipe segment with a pump and then split into two mk1 pipes right after the pump.

[worn heath]

My very uneducated guess is there's that sloshing effect and any inefficiencies in the manifold requiring the pipe to "catch-up" isn't possible because the pre-manifold pipe is already at 600.

[ember fractal]

Yeh, any drops in pressure or whatever, it cannot catch up and re-saturate, because it cannot do 601

[proud totem]

That is my general theory as well (I think we may have talked about this together before lol) but to have an average of 600 requires going above 600 to balance out when you drop below 600. But going above 600 is not possible

[marsh needle]

yeah i have a big recycled plastic setup with a bunch of HOR refineries to start

[proud totem]

That's why I do the loop, since it can give you basically 1200, which is more than plenty to keep the average

[marsh needle]

and they are set up to output a full 600 pipe

but the last ones tend to not unload fully over time

[harsh mica]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/955636503155990548/1298304430650687521/image.png?ex=671913b9&is=6717c239&hm=a93b6317671d070fa67eb2530a4ec52a5e2855d23b3a5387e57ddda222febd80&

it's not pretty but working

can finally start making phase 4 space elevator puts

[proud totem]

RIP me who has been on phase 3 for like 100 hours of my ~160 (maybe 170, I'd have to check) hour playthrough

This is what I get for wanting to make 20 HMF/min

[harsh mica]

mine is 6.75 HMF/min xd

gonna afk for abit to get food then go back to make filter+turbo ammon+some bomb automation

[distant aurora]

i made 24hmf/m

with 2 slooped manufacturers

[proud totem]

I'm worried that my fuel power plant isn't actually going to support me making space elevator parts. I only have 50 fuel gens using turbofuel, and I think those might run out

[harsh mica]

which phase

[proud totem]

I'll definitely have to make a big nuclear plant once I unlock it

Phase 3 I think. But I am going slightly overkill with 20 HMF

I already have a steel plant doing 156 encased pipes

[tidal dock]

I probably going to set up large oil power plant on west coast again. I don't think 70GW will cut it it I'm going to built to process Uranium Waste. As of now, with all Phase 5 parts are being made, I'm using like 35GW constantly.

[harsh mica]

my power gen is
biomass->32 coal gen->geo gen here there ->120 fuel gen -> not working yet-> nuclear gen-> rocket fuel gen

[proud totem]

Oh, I should do geo gens, I forgot about those!

Might give me the boost I need until I get a good nuclear plant eventually

[harsh mica]

anyway I can start using MK3 miner

[prisma kraken]

i have 64 coal gens at 250% for 12 gw, then a 40 gw tf plant that will be converted to RF when needed. between those 2 and a bunch of APA's, i'm breaking 100gw of power

[distant aurora]

i have some geothermals, a 20gw turbofuel plant, and like 100gw of rocket fuel

[worn heath]

I currently have 2 lines of 360 (720/min) of Fuel to the Turbofuel refineries. Should I keep the pipe system entirely separate with two separate loops or does it not matter much if I pipe in fuel from separate ends given no part of the pipe would be anywhere close to 600.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, better to keep pipe networks small

whenever i see a natural partition point in a pipe build, i'll exploit it to make things separated. i find pipes tend to behave better when networks are simpler, and there's another benefit in being able to take down half your power plant at a time to do work on it

in any sort of factory/building game, making failure domains for power small is kind of a big win

[worn heath]

IMO one loop seems simpler to setup, but you're advocating for two independent systems. Correct?

[prisma kraken]

i generally prefer to design power so that i can take down a fraction of the plant to work on it without loosing all of the plant's generation capability

[spare jolt]

hey all. is it possible to make alumina plant to run on waste water only (i.e. no extractors)?

[distant aurora]

no

[prisma kraken]

i find fuel power can be really finicky, and i can't tell you how many times i've had to bring down a bank of generators to refill the feeding pipe

[prisma kraken]

if you sloop some of the scrap production, yeah

you still need to pump some water into the system to bootstrap it

[spare jolt]

yep, I'm aware. awesome, thanks

[prisma kraken]

idk what the exact numbers are, but shouldn't be tough to figure out

[marsh needle]

i implemented this, there's three 600 pipes of HOR and six 600 pipes of fuel

in retrospect I regret maxing out hte pipes

[prisma kraken]

i'm thinking something similar can be done with some of the DMR loops

[spare jolt]

didn't get to DMR yet, but shoudn't it then be possible with all waste fluids?

[prisma kraken]

most likely

i'm still wrapping my head around how the t9 recipes fit together

[late grove]

The all too common tragedy

I’ve become superstitious about this and now I always do my recycled oil products with 1 300 oil pipe into 1 400 HOR pipe into 2 400 fuel pipes

[prisma kraken]

i just build recycled loops in the size of 150->450 and make them really compact

this is 3600 rubber:

[ebon girder]

Signal loops into itself... so I cannot enter a station from 2 sides?

if their is ANY connection besides the station that connects the networks on either side of the station

[prisma kraken]

you can never enter a station from both sides with or without signals

a station always has a given direction indicated by the arrow as you build it

[amber umbra]

Clean piping on that pic above, nice.

[prisma kraken]

you can share a set of platforms between 2 stations facing opposite directions on a bi-di rail

thx, lots of design iterations over the past few years to converge on something clean

[worn heath]

any idea how I can connect the bottom to the top while keeping it aesthetically pleasing?

[amber umbra]

Gotta keep the spacing farther vertically imo

[prisma kraken]

space the 2 pipes out with another spacer?

[spare jolt]

on such small in-between space - i doubt you can do that

maybe try Auto2D mode, but if it doesn't work - you gotta move the junctions

[worn heath]

I'm fine moving the junctions I just can't imagine how I would move them such that the loop looks nice?

[amber umbra]

I find blueprinting a vertically oriented pipe merger at different heights using 1 m foundations helps with vertical spaced pipes.

[worn heath]

I'm currently running pipe on the 2nd and 3rd level of a pipeline support. I guess I could move the lines to 2nd and 4th?

[worn heath]

do you have any pictures?

[amber umbra]

Merger rotated vertically. You build that like normal but do it at increased height by raising the floor using foundations. Let’s you “free place” a pipe merger at raised level without needing to do the pipe snap thing.

[patent blaze]

can place two tall pipe supports and connect one side vertically

then place a junction on the top pipe onwards to where you want the merged output

[ebon girder]

It's 2 stations, one on each end of the cargo plattforms. I just cannot enter them from both sides with the trains, since the network is connected at other points as well and this gives me "signal loops into itself".

[amber umbra]

@worn heath

[patent blaze]

@worn heath maybe something like this

you can snap the junction closer to the support if u place a support with a pipe connected

like so

[thorn trellis]

Man I love the feel of dark pipes

Matches with a lot

[amber umbra]

Black and white color schemes are rather matchy lol.

[thorn trellis]

Honestly keeping all my buildings to that

[worn heath]

Never occured to me to just feed in the pipe before the bend then loop. I'll need to remember that.

[unborn dome]

Is there a nice way to make the vertical junctions snap now? Or do you just have to eyeball them to the refinery input like always?

[amber umbra]

@unborn dome I use a pump placed on a wall as the “snap point”. Then place junction on a straight pipe at desired location.

Although the blueprint concept above is faster, so I use that mainly with nudge.

[unborn dome]

Yeah that's a good point, I should really set up a BP for a few refineries getting fed nicely so it's easier.

[amber umbra]

Blender stuff especially is where I use it. Did RF recently and needed it a lot.

[patent blaze]

i like to color just the supports in some areas to keep track of everything

[thorn trellis]

Fair

[patent blaze]

dont like the play-doh feel of having everything color coded

[thorn trellis]

I personally do all one pipe colour

Not easy to see but just looks better imo

[prisma kraken]

another option:

[unborn dome]

Yeah I'm on the "one pipe color" side too. I'd like to be able to color by fluid, but I feel it'd look too busy. The flow indicator colors are usually good enough.

[deft lichen]

you are looping those pipes right

[thorn trellis]

Later

[unborn ermine]

fun fact you can use the thin frames to slightly bump up a foundation so the pipe supports can be a nice tight bend. (if you want them gone afterwards)

[thorn trellis]

The pic is a bit old

That was from before my train fluid transport situation

I now spent like 10h learning fluid mechanics

Read the manual and everything and how trains move fluids

[worn heath]

nice one as well

[thorn trellis]

In theory if I loop it I should have 0 issue

Since it’s 300 per pipe with the bottom being 287.5

I think

Might be 187.5

Yep 187.5

[worn heath]

thin frames?

[unborn ermine]

The frame blocks from the awesome shop, the thinnest ones are almost like a vertical nudge in a sense.

[worn heath]

structural frame set?

[unborn ermine]

Yeah, they are handy for decoration too.

[heavy gust]

good, i thought i was going crazy when it didnt snap when i was making new blueprints

[patent blaze]

lol you're welcome

[edgy leaf]

@wind spade i want to write my own belt simulation, do you have any advice?

[wind spade]

I never wrote an actual simulation (where it simulated items on a belt separately)
it just assumed "there's X per minute on this belt and if you split it, it goes half/half, unless blocked"

[edgy leaf]

ahh makes sense

any ideas what i could use a belt simulation for? besides the same manifold stuff u have on your site

[wind spade]

anything that would require a specific belt simulation would probably also want actual belt simulation rather than the estimation I've done

but that's most likely just very specific things

[hexed spruce]

tell me im not crazy...

planning 10 HMF/pm

[swift rose]

How large would y'all suggest I make a 41GW power plant turbofuel backup storage? So it lasts 2h or more?

[vast jungle]

10 HMF/Min is quite a lot 😄

[hexed spruce]

planning to use half of them for fused frames too

[unborn dome]

I designed mine for 6.5 HMF/min, but I'm going to sloop up the single OC'd manufacturer as needed for fused frames.

[hexed spruce]

im very particular about numbers so when I design factories, they always have to output a multiple of 5 for a product whenever possible

[unborn dome]

I usually aim for whole numbers, but in this case the 6.5 was as far as I could push the nodes I had nearby. All of this is coming off a single pure iron.

[edgy leaf]

im curious what kind of ideas u have so i can implement them

i want to first write a belt system and then fluids

[proud totem]

I would recommend using heavy encased frames (I think is what the alt is named), since IIRC it provides a higher yield of HMFs for the materials

[unborn dome]

Yep, this one. It's great.

[proud totem]

Yeah, its what I am eventually going to use for 20 HMF/min

[edgy leaf]

also wondering how you'd do it

im just putting a bunch of structs in an array that have a number with the index of the structs they're connected to

not sure how thatll perform

[proud totem]

I mean, assuming the structs are contiguous in the array (i.e. the array is not an array of pointers, but of the structs themselves), finding a given struct will be very quick, as will iterating over structs

And if the array is on the stack, you're zooming. CPU cache go brrrrr

But even if it isn't, still pretty fast

[magic island]

is the exact logic for splitters known?

like, the actual determination for which output's turn it is to receive an item, esp. when the connected belt speeds vary

because the way I look at it, coding the simulation is the easy part. mimicking the game's logic and handling edge cases identically is the bigger question

[harsh mica]

Sushi belt

[deft lichen]

I'm not sure if we have the ultra specifics. It does round robin and tries to split equally between outputs, connected belt speed is not considered

[prisma kraken]

i think to do it quickly, the fast way is to use bit patterns in arrays of wide integers and make use of parallelized shifting operations in simd hw to move the items

[edgy leaf]

thats going wayyy over my head

[deft lichen]

There is some write-up on the wiki page but it's ages old (likely still accurate though)

[edgy leaf]

would that allow to easily remove and add belts and to know locations of items on belts?

[prisma kraken]

you use something like a 4 bit integer to represent a thing on a belt and use a 128 or 256 bit integer to represent several belt segments. moving items is just a basic shift by four

coding that all is painful, but it is damn fast

[magic island]

yeah, it's the "tries to split equally" where things get interesting, because if the output belt speeds are different, the timing that they can receive items is sorta desynchronized from the balance that the splitter is trying to fulfull.

there's multiple ways to solve it, but the choice of solution could make a difference in edge cases

[edgy leaf]

i dont erally understand it tbh, but to me it sounds like it doesnt work

like, how would you add/remove a belt, or different belt speeds, or the location of an item on the belt?

and splitters

[prisma kraken]

in computer graphics lingo, you're using a 1-d stipple pattern to animate motion of something else

more abstractions sitting on top of it all

[edgy leaf]

uhHH

do you mean to animate the items?

[prisma kraken]

no, to use one thing that is very cheap for a computer to do to represent another thing that isn't

[edgy leaf]

how would that solve the "knowing the location of the item on the belt" thing?

[prisma kraken]

you'd have to search through arrays, probably with some foreknowledge of approximate location

idk, i think about how i'd code this stuff now & then

[edgy leaf]

would shifting the items have enough precision tho?

256 bits per belt to shift the items through wouldnt suffice