math-and-meta

[unborn ermine]

I wanna say that should work yeah, and plopping the last on the end, doing that pipe loop.
That also would allow you to use that last machine as either an output or a splitter into two other outputs for fuel if you need it. (aka mk1 pipes only)

[slate wraith]

Which end? Or just at the end itself like all the way down?

[unborn ermine]

Whatever works for the build.

[quiet breach]

You have inspired me to build a stacked factory like this with all machines in that build

[unborn ermine]

The feed should be fine anywhere on the pipe, as long as you have your loop.

and I wanna say you will need it doing the machines split like this

[slate wraith]

I did buy plastic in advance for mk2 piping.

So this works out.

Its just praying its enough for the entire thing before that split and such if I need to come back, which is likely.

Although I do want power from this place at least once lol.

600 fuel is how many gens fed?

[plucky violet]

it would look nice if it was like that but the differences in resources were horizontal, that way it could be separated in wings.
The left wing is ingot production, the right right wing being construction after etc

or even just stuff the smelter towers in the corners of the factory turing them into part of the design

[quiet breach]

Yeah could be cool lol. Just tons of stacked machines…. Imagine manufacturers would be a challenge

[slate wraith]

I refuse to stack those.

No. Never. CEASE.

I'll stack a manifold with constructors/smelters.

Now the main problem I'm wondering.

Does the location of the pipewall matter?

Like where the pipes shoot up from the ground?

[quiet breach]

Floating junctions would work with pumps maybe

If I’m following what you’re throwing down

[slate wraith]

I mean like a full on pipe wall that I've never made before. I have no idea what a floating junction is though lol.

[quiet breach]

Like just pipes out of the wall for looks?

[slate wraith]

I mean, I could use pipe holes up the wall?

[quiet breach]

Use road barrier , snap wall into road barrier, zoop up, can attach pipe junction to it. So we could do this to refineries 😅

What wall lol

I think you need to glass the stack , no walls hiding this amazement in technology

[slate wraith]

I swear it was easier to do this with lifts to my base in the sky lol.

[unborn ermine]

You have 2 options, no shards = 30
Shard to the max = 12 gens

[slate wraith]

I assure you I have plenty of shards.

[unborn ermine]

The menu shows the burn rate, take the fuel amount and its divided by that

[slate wraith]

I'm holding...77 of them?

[weary lotus]

i got some water pipes, 525m^3, 420m^3 and 210m^3. i need to spread a pipe with 315 over them so i can get 600m^3 * 2 and 270m^3, how do i do this

[unborn ermine]

Thats only 36 needed shards! You are good

[slate wraith]

Does this mean I can take the shards out of my coal plant once this place runs? LMAO.

Oh right. I should probaly go turn off the entire factory at main base so my grid can take it.

I don't think its going to love the new addition stress lol.

Still though. How do I get the pipes to come up and work with machines without issue of distribution?

Junction entries into the loop?

[weary lotus]

can someone help with this please, its urgent and i need it for my aluminum, my plut fuel rod thing doesnt have heat sinks because of it

i think this'll work

[unborn ermine]

I assume a lot of things

[slate wraith]

I can't automate these yet.

YET.

[unborn ermine]

Look at my phase

[slate wraith]

You actually looked for them lol.

[unborn ermine]

Oh and this

[slate wraith]

I don't necessarily do so. My fixation mode says ignore it if I have to give excess effort. lol.

[unborn ermine]

I have a fair bit in my backlog

[slate wraith]

I'm hunting hard drives and I see a slug somewhere funky? How fun or much effort do I gotta give for it? Too much, back later. If minimal a side stop lol.

I'm gonna assume also, you can't just do one pipe up and it'll distribute oil well?

[unborn ermine]

You can, just have to make sure its done right. aka loop and fill.

if the pipes need to be FULL full, you can turn on each residue refinery one at a time.

[slate wraith]

This is the top, I assume the bottom has to merge all 3 into this?

[unborn ermine]

What is the pipe? Oil or Heavy?
Oh I think you flipped the refineries back from what I was thinking

[slate wraith]

I am ever so slowly making sense of how to set this place up. Slowly. Also yes, those are output internal pipe incomplete. Input is that elevated one lol.

[edgy leaf]

@wind spade i noticed a discrepency between tools and scim i think. scim says theres 15 impures, 50 normals and 29 pure concrete nodes. that adds up to 69300. tools says theres 69900 concrete. am i missing something or is either tools or scim wrong?

[slate wraith]

I was going to build my 12 gens. I ran out of motors.

Back to the machine for more later.

[unborn ermine]

This is what I had in mind, one oil pipe in the middle and heavy oil is on the outside.

Saves some pipe madness

[slate wraith]

I can flip it.

[unborn ermine]

The way I was thinking, you can still have the elevated input, just less weirdness on the whole.

[slate wraith]

If it saves me pipe madness, I'll take it.

[slate wraith]

Thats all 3 pipes connected.

YAAAAY. Onto actually connecting everything else.

[prisma kraken]

pretty similar to what i do... with OC'ing this does 300 crude->800 fuel for recycling loops

note that you can keep the hor pipes on the side unconnected and just do the hor processing with 2 separate groups

[slate wraith]

Reclycling loops exist? Once its set up. I'll ask lol.

[unborn ermine]

Thats the rubber/plastic loop

[vast jungle]

you don't even need to loop the recycling plastic/rubber

it works fine without a loop

[prisma kraken]

i call it 'the recycling loop', but it actually doesn't really loop, just feeds back some stuff into the system to make more stuff

[slate wraith]

This...Sounds like something I want to learn.

Or should.

[vast jungle]

is there a reason why everyone is building the loops? They can make ratios quite a headache if you only want Rubber or only Plastic...

[prisma kraken]

the basic premise is that the recycled rubber & plastic recipes make the product 1:1 out of fuuel

[vast jungle]

yes, I know... but you don't know to loop it to make it work... I have a standardized factory that makes 90 Oil into 270 Plastic (or Rubber) without any looping

[slate wraith]

The sooner I have less headaches and math understanding.

Well. Words hard. Must be brain broken by math.

[unborn ermine]

tbh it dosent really matter for the loop, since its all based on overflow, the numbers "just work"

[slate wraith]

Smart splitters do overflow, so I might use them for that in this case?

I shouldn't have those if I stick with the math though.

[unborn ermine]

Smart splitters just speed up what the game would do normally with splitters

[prisma kraken]

mine doesn't really loop, just kind of overflows excess rubber into making plastic which feeds the stuff making rubber

[unborn ermine]

same tbh?

[slate wraith]

This all sounds like something I want to learn.

[prisma kraken]

i think it just makes the build more compact

[slate wraith]

However. Right now I have a checklist of things to do to actually get out of phase 3 and its a whole factory work. Assembler lanes, manufacturer lanes, etc.

Can't wait to lose my mind lol.

[vast jungle]

let me break down the "no looping" alternative...

1. take 90 Oil to make 120 HOR and 60 Polymer Resin
2. turn 120 HOR into 240 Fuel (with DPF or DF)
3. turn the 60 Polymer resin into 30 Rubber
4. Use two Refineries and the recycling Recipes to turn 30 Rubber into 30 Rubber and 30 Plastic
5. take the 30 stuff you do NOT want and double it three times with 7 Refineries... making another 240 of the stuff you want

no feedback loop, no smart splitter, just a linear setup...

[unborn ermine]

This is my "loop" plastic input side the leftmost belt is the product overflow

[prisma kraken]

if you have the space, sure, but i don't want to use more refineries than i need

[vast jungle]

I don't think you are more compact with the looping (at least if you don't overclock)...

all refineries except the two which turn 30 Rubber into 30 Rubber and 30 Plastic run at 100%

[unborn ermine]

I didnt overclock at all for mine, basic loop and only doing one node of 300/min tho

[prisma kraken]

that's 300->900

[unborn ermine]

probably would be a lot cleaner if I did, but it wouldnt be a starter setup, would be pretty power hungry instead

[prisma kraken]

sorely in need of some decoration, but i still have another 1800 worth of rubber to build, lol

[vast jungle]

just BP it 😉

(in multiple parts)

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it's 10x10, i'll just wait for the xl bp mod again, lol

[unborn ermine]

Same but flat and no overclocking

[vast jungle]

I think my 90=>270 factory is a series of 4 MK2 Blueprints... then you just replicate them side by side

(no, its 5 because of some annoyance in the DPF loops)

[prisma kraken]

yeah, for me i'm just wacking the rubber needs out of the way and building out 3600/min

i need a ton of concrete and rubber never goes to waste

plus i'm also trying not to pave over entire biomes for a single build 🙂

[slate wraith]

…I realize either my base needs more elevation, or I’m outright going to need to expand further lol.

Curse my modular design fixation leading to a line factory lol.

[prisma kraken]

very common in this game to undershoot your space estimates

[slate wraith]

After proper measurements, space should’ve been 100x100. It’s not.

[vast jungle]

especially for Oil tech...

[slate wraith]

I have…at least 8 lanes that are 5x5.

[prisma kraken]

especially when building anything more than foundations, i'd say!

what really kills me is trains

[slate wraith]

I might just outright move everything simple down into the underbelly, assemblers upstairs and then down the line manufacturer lanes.

I have manifold blueprints I made anyway, I kinda want to employ them.

[vast jungle]

I think Refineries are often the ONLY factories larger than their train stations unless you scale up A LOT ^^

[prisma kraken]

something that helps a lot is give your structures floors an extra 4 or 8 meters of height, it's rather useful for routing belts around on the ceiling

[slate wraith]

Oh the first part would work for an assembler lane easily.

It’s beyond that it becomes an issue.

[prisma kraken]

idk, oscillator and hmf builds get pretty chonky

[slate wraith]

That’s where I’m at.

[prisma kraken]

hsc's too

fricking hate those things

so much so i've become a pretty good shot with normal rifle ammo 😄

[slate wraith]

I’m just thinking I may have to outright build 3 floors instead of 2 and make them quite large despite their size already.

Then make their ceiling taller.

[vast jungle]

or high... I made a BP that has 2 Manufacturers for Oscillators... and stacked it 8 times afterwards ^^

[prisma kraken]

that's kind of what you have to do

[slate wraith]

I mean, aesthetically it’d look nice with some elevation changes so it would work out.

[prisma kraken]

kind of what i've got going on here which is still WIP

[slate wraith]

I’m not stacking manufacturers ever lol.

My brain just says screw it. Build longer platforms.

It’s the math I worry on for my machines though.

[vast jungle]

stack Steel makers... (3 Pure Iron Refineries and 4 Solid Steel Foundries)... its fun!

[slate wraith]

I have a manifold attempt line of 4 on one side, 5 in another.

It’s compact but feeds from the top and I can adjust stuff as need be.

[nova crater]

Hello all, sorry to interrupt. How much fuel does a fuel gen burn at 250% w/ turbo fuel? I think I am either missing something on Satisfactory Calculator or they don't specify.

[vast jungle]

I think the max I used is a 8-belt elevated highway (between my 5x5 factory blocks)... I made a BP for a 12 belt highway, but it just looks bad

[vast jungle]

wiki says 7.5 m3/min at 100%... so multiply that by 2.5

[slate wraith]

I like to build my blueprints in an easy to adjust fashion input wise if it goes longer then the base allowance in the BP mk2.

[nova crater]

Okay I though that, but wanted to make sure. Appreciate it. I think this project got my brain go brrr

[vast jungle]

the MK2 BP designer is just awesome... I just wished we would get the MK3 at Tier 7/8

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Fuel-Powered_Generator

[unborn ermine]

Man
I was doing some messed up math to minimise foundries for compact steel if I use it for my rocket fuel's byproduct.
normally 104 machines needed for it all
42 if I overclock to max, but if I want to underclock my overclock to get nice machine numbers... 40 get set to 247.5%

[slate wraith]

Some stuff outright is locked behind way too late for you to really use it.

I still run around instead of a hypertube or jetpack.

[vast jungle]

The Hoverpack is worth the wait, but Jetpack with Liquid Biofuel is still really good

[unborn ermine]

Both have their uses

[vast jungle]

Hoverpack is better for building... because you can hover in place 😄

[slate wraith]

Hover pack is my immediate want.
However to even start building the space elevator parts it tear down the lanes of stuff I have overproducing.

[unborn ermine]

is there a way to disengage the hoverpack besides removing it or slowly landing on the ground?

[slate wraith]

I didn’t underproduce, I overproduced iron ingots to feed more then…6 foundries?

Then a screw lane.

[vast jungle]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Hoverpack "double-tap Crouch C to exit hover mode"

[slate wraith]

And whatever else is in the iron lane.

[unborn ermine]

Nice, just a little finicky before knowing that.

[slate wraith]

I’m going into steel hard so I suspect I’m gonna need that iron a lot more now.

solid steel ingots, steel screws, iron pipes…Maybe it’s good I made 50 smelters lol.

[solid ether]

This. The entire blueprint maker line is always a tier or phase late.

[vast jungle]

beware of Iron Pipes... its a "trap"

[vast jungle]

the MK2 comes right in time when you get Refineries

[unborn ermine]

Iron Pipes is good IF you are locked into an area with zero coal and dont want to ship out iron or coal in

[vast jungle]

still, it gets out of hand quite fast... I built my Motor-Factory with it and it eats Iron like crazy

[slate wraith]

I shipped in coal from a far node in the red forest and the pure crater.

Originally one was for my coal plants before I moved it.

[vast jungle]

scrapping coal powerplants after you get Fuel Power is a common theme in SF

[unborn ermine]

Like a great example of a situation!
you want to make this SAM node make fluctuators BUT dont want to send in that copper or coal.
Iron Pipe and Iron Wire saves the day.

[slate wraith]

The coal now just serves as my steel/powder supplies.

[amber jacinth]

FICSIT sees a pioneer and is like “put them in a situation”

[woven minnow]

guys need help

[unborn ermine]

we all do, but go ahead

[slate wraith]

I am perfectly fine and not traumatized by power fuses breaking.

[woven minnow]

how to distribute this? I'm making 80/min electromagnetic control rod

[slate wraith]

…26 constructs, one at 66%, I’d assume?

I figure overclocking is an option to lesson the machines though.

[woven minnow]

I have plenty of power shards thanks to somersloop

1600/2 will be 800 but mk.5 is 780

[vast jungle]

split it into modules and keep them small

[river night]

i would probably split it into 4 groups of 7, with 400 quickwire on each belt

[slate wraith]

Oh god belt calculations.

Brain says no.

[vast jungle]

maybe even make a BP out of each module... so you just can extend easily

[woven minnow]

yeah I understand the pain too

[vast jungle]

4 AI Assemblers and 6 Quickwire Constructors should easily fit into a BP...

[slate wraith]

I’ll do ALL the machine math. Belts here’s my best take it or leave it.

[woven minnow]

thanks

[slate wraith]

…Screw it we go higher into the sky lol. 3rd floor.

[woven minnow]

my case usually when lets say, producing 500 ingots and 3 portions of it making 3 different items, I just use a splitter to separate for each material rather than load balancing & manually put some ingots myself for overflow

[woven minnow]

relatable for the 'past me'

[slate wraith]

I am already nearly breaking elevation from the cliffs in my spawn the 2nd one.

I do a 3rd floor. FLOATING RECTANGLE!

Time for the wall to be full of lifts lol.

[woven minnow]

god conveyor lift floor hole helps a lot

[slate wraith]

Overflow goes into extra machines.

Manifold of iron is full, go into the steel lol.

Somehow ran out of pipes for refinery. WELP.

[woven minnow]

for inputs into the machines, I usually use the lowest tier possible matching with the required per minutes. If its 30/min per machine I will use mk.1 belts, if its 80/min per machine then I will use mk.2 belts

[marsh needle]

so I just came up with this

honestly this might be my magnum opus

[slate wraith]

I'd rather overproduce with the belts then under.

I'm already suffering bad here with 100 motors and someone asked me why I need to produce 100 every few minutes.

Now I'm eating motors for the refinery stuff.

[marsh needle]

the turbofuel is going in generators, the packaged turbofuel is going to be drone fuel later on

I can take the plastic and package up more fuel if needed, I'm not experienced with fueling drones with not batteries yet

[supple gazelle]

The recycled recipie are so fun, especially making a loop to turn them into each other

[elder thunder]

sir why i cant use calculator for packaged turbo fuel ? like error

[marsh needle]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

the calculator isn't without issue

sometimes it adds this on for no apparent reason

[elder thunder]

sory from cameras phone

why error like that or i just missing something?

[slate wraith]

How much turbo fuel do you want to make? Did you turn off any recipes that were essential to this?

[marsh needle]

I would suggest checking the recipies and inputs are correct

sometimes it does wierd things

[elder thunder]

yes i checklist turbofuel already

i just newbie for this game sir

[elder thunder]

or can u share to me ,how to use that tool properly ? let say im gonna make turbo fuel 50/min

[marsh needle]

oh you need the compacted coal alt recipe

for some reason the site sometimes likes to use the converter for me when it just has the appropriate raw inputs anyway

so you may want to disable the reanimated sam recipe

[elder thunder]

ohh i ser

thank you mate

[marsh needle]

yeah nw

[slate wraith]

10 usually won't calculate at all much.

Needs to be triple digits or close before it somewhat I notice starts adding big stuff like 24 constructors or something.

[elder thunder]

can u share me whats on ur checklist to make 100/min fuel

[elder thunder]

yes 10 only for testing tools

[pastel obsidian]

There is a tool on steam that I think is easier to use

[marsh needle]

I'm going to bed

have fun

[slate wraith]

Honestly, this is starting to become something I can learn and am, slowly.

Its just dissecting whats on screen without an overload.

[pastel obsidian]

I prefer tools where you can select the recipe yourself

To each their own

[elder thunder]

sorry i mean 100/min turbofuel

[crystal prism]

What do you use gill?

[slate wraith]

I mean, if you want to share it I can give it a look lol.

[elder thunder]

yeah

[marsh needle]

it was jsut what I showed you

[slate wraith]

My brain works from step 1 to step whatever.

[marsh needle]

I selected compacted coal and unchecked reanimated sam because for some reason that was necessary

when you open a new tab it should reset everything to defaults

[elder thunder]

oh u got me,yea j was confusing why there is a sam ,so ijust uncheck sam

[prisma kraken]

fyi. the planner for the game at sp.runesun.com does much of what that new one on steam does without the time consuming clicking connections between everything

that new one is pretty slick with the graphs and stuff but you can't really do anything quickly with it

[pastel obsidian]

Thank you 🙂

[slate wraith]

I'm slowly making sense of this.

Slowly. I do need however a full on 1122 MW to run this so I have to go back to main base and pull switches lol.

Out of 1500 oil, I've used...675 for heavy residue into fuel for 12 gens to power at overclock.

So this boost my power quite a bit to work with.

[pastel obsidian]

You can turn it on in stages or modules

[slate wraith]

I have a prime switch and station switches for lanes.

I planned ahead for that one lol.

As for not having enough motors...

Might be the spite or annoyance, but "You dont need to produce 100 motors this fast."

Me running of them and having to constantly run back to my base to finish my refinery. NOTE TO SELF. Overproduction is fantastic.

...I need 15 refineries for the fuel. How do I get 5 of them spaced like a sort of dead end shape?

[teal oasis]

Two on each side and one on the end, and then a walkway in the middle could work

And a logistics floor underneath

[past reef]

Refineries are super long though, you're better off spending 2 shards to make a double manifold

[slate wraith]

Thats the math I don't know.

How many refineries overclocked is equal?

[teal oasis]

And underclock the last two at 50%. That's a good solution

If you just make 6

[past reef]

Either put down 16 with 2 at 50% clock or 14 with 2 at 150% clock

Underclocking is preferable if you have space for them but it's marginal power gain at that size

I would go for the 16 setup, not because of space but because 4 refineries occupy 5 foundations horizontally so 16 has better alignment

[slate wraith]

Have not added a logistics floor yet to a 8m floor for logistical stuff.

Still need do that to route the stuff for plastic/rubber but I want my routes for power covered, but turning this place on will be a slow process while pipes fill.

Then monitor if it stays on.

I trust the math involved for this, yes. However, I eye my stuff like a hawk to ensure it stays working. Want this done right the first time.

[wind spade]

you can select recipes in Tools as well

[sand goblet]

i have 1 group of refineries backing up its turbofuel , could my "pipe balancer" be the issue ? im running out of ideas what could be the problem XD

[vast jungle]

I don't think pumps like this do much at all in terms of problem solving

[wind spade]

problem is you are balancing pipes

[slate wraith]

Oh. Oh hell naw

[vast jungle]

keep it simple with pipes and only use pumps when you need more headlift

[slate wraith]

My power just surged and I have no idea when last auto save was.

There is much panic and potential internal screaming.

[vast jungle]

luckily there is an "easy" way to bootstrap your power network in 1.0... biofuel. You can get a LOT of biofuel with a few constructors and you can belt-feed it now. Perfect to restart one of your powerplants

[sweet blade]

Why is this drop pod tripping on exactly enough power?

[noble timber]

You need a slight over production for drop pods

[slate wraith]

120/120.

Build one more. Game says power it more.

Drop pods are weird like that. Especially the 400 ones lol.

[vast jungle]

or just overclock the generator

[slate wraith]

Isn’t a biomass gen only 75 at max?

[sweet blade]

Ok, still tripped though

[noble timber]

Keep adding more until it works

[vast jungle]

run out of fuel?

[sweet blade]

I got up to 195/120 and it didn't work.

[knotty knoll]

What are you trying to do?

[sweet blade]

Tried reloading, still happens

Drop pod at Crater lake

[noble timber]

It will work eventually just keep adding more power

[vast jungle]

normally even having barely enough should work...

[sweet blade]

Each of the 4 biofuel have 50 fuel. When I connect the drop pod at no matter the energy, it trips. Tested up to 195 power

[past reef]

That looks so weird the line is stable so you shouldnt run out of fuel in any of those burners

[noble timber]

There must be some bug with them. I had one that needed 60 MW but I actually had to have 120 MW

Or the power requirements in the UI are incorrect for some reason

[sweet blade]

Testing with 255 power: successful

[slate wraith]

Crisis averted. I have some ideas how to solve this but unsure if this works.

[noble timber]

Yeah… seems to be roughly double the power that you need to actually get into them.

[toxic hemlock]

Is the Compacted Steel Ingot recipe on the wiki off by a factor of 10? If not, was the in game recipe accidentally cut by a factor of 10? It's the lowest ingot output per machine of any ingot type by far, and isn't meaningfully more efficient than Solid Steel Ingots; you get 33% more steel per iron ore, but A) you trade one sulfur for one coal, when sulfur is 4x as scarce and B) you can find ways to make the ingots for solid steel more efficiently, to the point that you can swing the steel per iron ingot ratio in favor of Solid Steel Ingots

The next lowest ingots/min recipe is like, 37/min or something; 10/min is bizarre

[slate wraith]

I need to underclock one of these meanwhile.

[past reef]

There are c coal byproduct recipes so that one is a good use of resource, let me check numbers

[toxic hemlock]

I suppose, but a bunch of those c coal byproduct recipes have c coal itself up the tree

And even if you can get the coal efficiently, the fact that compacted steel is 10/min and the next lowest in 45/min is weird

[wind spade]

seems like it's correct

[toxic hemlock]

I was looking at it and it seems like it used to be like, 37/min or something

With appropriate input increase as well

[white bloom]

Compacted Steel Ingot is the best steel ingot recipe as it is. It is used exclusively for steel ingots in the optimal solution for maximizing awesome points.

[wind spade]

it got reduced speed with increased ratio

[pastel obsidian]

10 seems really low

[white bloom]

The compacted coal it requires is readily supplied as the byproduct from Rocket Fuel production

[past reef]

Oh it does have highest steel/iron in a vacuum, but yeah the space isnt nice

[white bloom]

actual coal on the other hand is too valuable to be used for steel, because it can now be used to make diamonds instead

[wind spade]

there's more than enough coal

[noble timber]

But sulphur isn’t?

[pastel obsidian]

What are people using quartz for

[past reef]

Isn't turbo diamond or even oil based diamond nicer?

Maybe quartz side computer but mostly radio control unit

[noble timber]

What else would you use a sizeable amount of coal for other than steel if you are tier 5 or later

[slate wraith]

So the power surge threw off my math, but I remember some of it.

[pastel obsidian]

Wouldn't pink diamonds be easier

[slate wraith]

23.5 refiners on residue, turns that into fuel for 600 into 12 gens maxed out.

[past reef]

Coal/steel recipes are kinda nice to lower space needed for hmf, maybe aluminum in t7, diamonds in t9

[white bloom]

you're not using extra sulfur for compacted steel. The compacted coal comes from rocket fuel. Rocket Fuel always produces compacted coal as byproduct. You need to produce a lot of rocket fuel to efficiently cover your power needs beyond what Uranium power can provide, and turning that byproduct compacted coal into compacted steel is the best use for it and enough steel to cover your needs there

[slate wraith]

However I needed...15/16 if I remember your guys input on some settings adjusted for fuel.

[noble timber]

What if you aren’t doing rocket fuel

[past reef]

Then you wouldnt even have to make compacted coal

Turbofuel go with blend alt mostly

[pastel obsidian]

Are people really running into shortages of steel

[slate wraith]

One of you said make 14, overclock 2 to 150 and it should balance out right?

[slate wraith]

With my iron smeltery not really.

[noble timber]

There is 42k coal on the map. There’s more than enough to make loads of steel and other stuff

[fringe pawn]

Compacted coal exists to help optimize screw production. But you will eventually run out of sulfur and byproduct compacted coal and need to switch to coke steel ingot and solid steel ingot on your way to a maximum screws build. Obviously the most important thing in the game.

[past reef]

Yeah if you put 14 then 150% 2 of those, 16 with 2 50% would look better imo

[pastel obsidian]

Sulfur is only used to make MW go up

[white bloom]

not really, no. In the optimum you're putting 52320 coal/min into turbo diamonds and 1222 into Nitro Rocket Fuel. That's 11242 /min more than you can mine map-wide, the rest must be covered from resource conversion (10755 from limestone and 487 from iron)

[wind spade]

why would I do nitro fuel when I can do nuclear

[slate wraith]

Thats 8 per side, but its doable I think.

[past reef]

8 per side takes exactly 10 foundations so if you are an align freak that's the way

[wind spade]

and why would I make so many diamonds

[pastel obsidian]

People spend a lot of time on their rocket fuel plant

[slate wraith]

I am floating in the air. LOL.

[past reef]

As usual overclock saves space

[white bloom]

because uranium power doesn't quite cover total power demand by itself, the rest comes from rocket fuel. a mix of the default recipe and nitro to make the numbers work and fully utilize the map resources. I mean, you know how linear programming works, that's just the optimal solution

[wind spade]

what is "total power demand"?

that depends on how much you build

there's no "optimal" solution for Satisfactory

[white bloom]

maximizing awesome points /min under the condition that power consumption is covered by power production

optimal with regard to that goal formulation

[wind spade]

nobody will reach that

so irrelevant to think about it

[slate wraith]

Going with 7 and overclock.

[pastel obsidian]

Just build what brings you joy

[white bloom]

so what? if you utilize exactly half of every resource, or some other fraction, it works out to the exact same recipes used, just scaled down

[wind spade]

yeah, but then you have extra and don't have to convert

[slate wraith]

I want the old equation back up but power surge got rid of that information.

[white bloom]

it's just a good proxy to judge long term / end game efficiency of production chains in general. the longer you play the closer your play scenario will approximate this end state

[white bloom]

?

[slate wraith]

I just remember it barely.

[wind spade]

if you scale optimal production to half, you have half of the map available, so you can use different recipes

[pastel obsidian]

What do you mean

[slate wraith]

The tabs closed.

I am running off memory right now.

[pastel obsidian]

Tab of what

Sorry I have said a lot of things today

[fringe pawn]

Does this assume you don't want to store plutonium?

[white bloom]

I meant scaling down the resources considered available, and then maximizing again. that will yield the exact same recipes used at exact same ratios, just the total numbers scaled down.

[slate wraith]

The equation that got me 12 gens wit 600 fuel, 23.5 refineries on heavy oil residue, that feed into the 14 refineries making fuel.

[wind spade]

max map resources are pointless to use in any sort of real-game optimisation

[slate wraith]

It was something like 670 fuel out of 1500 available.

[past reef]

If you have to convert for 20% of supply of X, when you scale down total production to 80% you dont have to convert and math gets different

[pastel obsidian]

I see

[white bloom]

yes. if you didn't enforce zero net item production/consumption you would just consider a stacked container full of high end products a valid solution even though it definitely produces nowhere near that fast

[pastel obsidian]

You should look at local scarcity not global scarcity when it comes to resources

[slate wraith]

Yeah, my tab is gone and yaaaaay. I need to calculate how much of the run off material I was making in each refinery from residue for plastic rubber.

[white bloom]

hence the point, if you use 50% map resources or 10% map resources it works out to the same take-aways

[slate wraith]

Bleh, brain is not happy with the loss of that information but I'm glad it pocketed it.

[pastel obsidian]

I have most of my notes in a good sheet thankfully

[past reef]

For building you dont need more than 40 per min of each, from 240 resin pm

[wind spade]

if you use 100% map resources, you have to take suboptimal recipes due to resource limitations
if you use less, you don't need to change recipes and can overuse resources

[white bloom]

that would be true if transportation was costly. alas, belts are free

[wind spade]

global availability only makes sense when 0 nodes are tapped

[white bloom]

if you use 10% map resources you have the same limitations you can't overuse resources because you restricted yourself to 10%.

[pastel obsidian]

It takes time to set up

[wind spade]

why would I restrict myself to 10%

[pastel obsidian]

It's not free

[white bloom]

yes. We aren't discussing speed runs here, are we?

[pastel obsidian]

People have lives

[white bloom]

just an example, because you don't want to assume 100% resource usage because that's too much

use any % of your resource limitations, you get the same recipes used

as long as it's the same % for all

[fringe pawn]

A percentage amount is sort of weird. I tend to stick to a starting biome plus the edges of adjacent biomes. That might give you proportionately more or less of some resources.

[white bloom]

if you don't use the same % for all, you are distorting the game's given scarcities for resources

[fringe pawn]

Yes.

[white bloom]

okay sure but at the end of the day these kind of self-restrictions, either way, are kind of arbitrary

[fringe pawn]

Because that's the nature of how the map is laid out

[pastel obsidian]

99.99% of people will never run into scarcity

The only time I have is because I have tapped out of the iron node

[white bloom]

under what other criterion would you want to discuss and compare alts then though? If you just assume all resources are available at unlimited rates, there is no point to comparing any of them

I mean yeah sure production rate per footprint is cool and all, but wouldn't you agree it's kind of interesting to look at how much you can squeeze out of a finite supply?

[wind spade]

my point is that if I'm using 10% of resources, it's not 10% of each resource. I can use 50% of coal and 1% of all other resources, if it averages to 10%

[pastel obsidian]

Where are you building and what do you have access to

[wind spade]

not when people won't realistically hit it

[charred saffron]

At least 70% of my usage of alt recipes is bc they in one way or another fit my calculations better (aka the output is to an easier ratio to the required amount without powerslugging everything)

[pastel obsidian]

Circuit boards are a great example

[white bloom]

then you are distorting rarities of the resources though. The recipes are balanced with the relative rarities of the resources in mind that they actually have in the game world

we can imagine a world where there is 10x as much caterium as iron but what's the point

[wind spade]

I don't care, as long as I don't hit the cap, it doesn't matter

[white bloom]

yes you can set yourself arbitrarily limited constraints of any kind. but the only constraints the game objectively gives you are how much nodes (of each quality, of each resource) there are in total. everything else is just personal imagination, not a good grounds for discussion.

[slate wraith]

Annnd I'm out of plastic for Mk2 pipes.

Well. I can go calculate the...Run off whatever it was from oil residue for plastic and such.

[wind spade]

either we are talking theoretical max, in which case yes, there are limitations, but that's hardly an argument for practical use of resources
or we're talking practical limits in which case I'm repeating again "noone will ever hit those"

[charred saffron]

That's hardly a constraint though, if you look at the SCIM map. There's plenty of everything and if you somehow manage to completely max out a specific ore, you've built so much you're pretty much done with the game anyway

Theoretically there's a limit, but it's so far up that it's a difficult bar to reach without specifically setting out to reach it

[slate wraith]

470 of the resin. How should I split it plastic vs rubber?

[pastel obsidian]

Rubber is cheaper

[wind spade]

all into rubber

[pastel obsidian]

Save tiny a bit for fabric

[slate wraith]

I have no production of plastic...

This is literally my first and only source of both. I bought some just for Mk2 pipes from the shop.

[pastel obsidian]

Plastic it is you can change it later

[white bloom]

I mean, at the end of the day, take my info for what it's worth and not more. I just provided the info on the relative viability of the steel recipes in regard to this theoretical map-wide maximization scenario. My point being that compacted steel isn't a useless recipe if it is - for that purpose - the best.

[wind spade]

then make it?

[slate wraith]

That is what this is. I just don't know a good ratio.

[wind spade]

ratio is "what you need"

there's no generic ratio

if you don't know how much you need, don't make it yet

[slate wraith]

Guess I'm dividing 470 into half roughly for both.

[wind spade]

no reason to make something in advance

[slate wraith]

Unless the awesome shop is the thing you want to be the source of my plastic and rubber lol.

Then this needs to happen and be planned out now.

[charred saffron]

Last time I made an oil plant I had 4 refineries working on rubber, 4 on plastic, and 8 on fuel, and I used all sideproducts to make more of each. There are probably optimisers quaking in their boots just reading that, but it was convenient for me and fit my needs. Don't need to care abt anything else

[wind spade]

make small amount for storage of each

[slate wraith]

I could probably get away with that.

I got 240 plastic off 470. The rest can be rubber if math is perfect from residual.

[unborn ermine]

honestly my "first" setup this save was just a industrial storage crate and a bit for each... then I made my recycle setup

[slate wraith]

Well I do have enough rubber hopefully to build those 12 gens lol.

I just need to see if I spaced out too far or need another junction design here.

Thats 14 refiners, 2 on 150%. NOW. I'm almost ready to turn on pumps and test lol.

This is also kinda my first time beyond setting up one gen, because a friend back in early access was also new and could only at best power 2 gens. Powering 12 on my own effort and building will be an achievement.

[coral thicket]

what sort of logic circuits can be hacked together in SF?

I'm thinking some things could be done with belt logic

[slate wraith]

Well its not completely great math, but its not bad either.

360 resin into plastic, the rest turns into rubber.

I might have to adjust a machine to underperform or leave it as lagging behind.

[past reef]

Not much really, you can do belt filter and overflow and remote block belt (sacrificing speed)

[past reef]

Can math the rates so you get even number from plastic rubber fabric, but resin don't get much use

[slate wraith]

Well I could overclock the rubber.

It'd maybe balance out the remaining number.

Whats the ratio for a water extractor to refinery?

[vast jungle]

combined plastic/rubber factories have (well known ^^) disadvantages

better keep both production lines separate

[slate wraith]

Thats the plan.

I'm just gonna be safe over sorry and put 4 extractors of water and sorta balance them between the refineries.

Brains been on overtime today.

[vast jungle]

are you building DPF or DF ?

[slate wraith]

DPF?

[leaden cosmos]

Diluted packaged fuel

[slate wraith]

No.

[proper ginkgo]

so question, I do have a single conveyer with 270 iron rods on it, I need to split it into a 150 one for Rotors and a 120 for other lines, how do I do the math for it with such weird numbers ?

[slate wraith]

This is power, plastic and rubber.

[charred saffron]

The easiest way is prb to let the belts and machines fill up before letting the machines get to work, this way they'll only be able to take what they need to fill up and automatically split it for you. Another way is (if you have them) programmable splitters, you can set up a ratio with amounts of "any" going in every necessary direction

[leaden cosmos]

And load test with sinks. To see what breaks 😄

[proper ginkgo]

so I do a manafold into my assemblers and don't end it by the last machine, but continue the line down to where I want it ?

[charred saffron]

That's possible, but not necessary. The idea is just to let all the belts and the machines they lead to (that are processing your rods) fill up completely, and then turn everything on. That way the entire system manages its own numbers itself

You can do it with a giant manifold for everything, but you can also split the rods to two separate factory lines before turning them into manifolds for both lines

[leaden cosmos]

Oh nuclear.
I load balance the spice. Everything else is manifolded

[charred saffron]

No, Iron rods for (amongst others) rotors

[leaden cosmos]

Sorry read rods as fuel rods 😄

[charred saffron]

Makes sense

But the type of rods was already clear in convo (at least between Sa3D and me) so I didn't specify it. I get your confusion tho 😂

[slate wraith]

Eeeeh. The last rubber bit is 480 resin consumed when I have 470.

Underclocking it to consume just that amount I guess.

Perfect. 75. My head hurts from being strained to think on math this much, but its 470.

[weary lotus]

does anyone know which recipe that uses water uses the least amount of water per minute

i literally have .000252 extra m^3 of water

[charred saffron]

I believe the least amount of water per minute on any recipe is 10m^3/m for Biochemical Sculptors in T9

[weary lotus]

thats before phase 5

i think it would be the cooling unit thing

[charred saffron]

But honestly that overproduction is so incredibly tiny you might as well just ignore it or underclock ever so slightly so your production is in perfect ratio

[weary lotus]

12 pm caterium ingot

i dont htink i can even underclock that low

[charred saffron]

Plastic. Residual plastic uses 20 m^3/m

[weary lotus]

the limit is 0.1% right

12 pm for pure caterium ingopt

[charred saffron]

You can see if you can underclock the water extractor by so little that it rounds out though. You can clock to a target production rate

[weary lotus]

its a byproduct from aluminum merging into a pipe with water extractors going in

i can probably just slap an industrial tank and ignore it

i wish there was a fluid awesome sink

[charred saffron]

It's a bit difficult to stress test fluids though 🤔

[weary lotus]

smart valves would be awesome

[magic aurora]

Any known solutions for NONE liquid in pipe issue?

[bronze barn]

First of all; Wrong channel 😉
Second of all: Do you have enough pumps for the water to reach your pipes (assuming you have headlift?)

[magic aurora]

sry, thouhgt this one is related to meta)) https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/553550313533997057/1295686623740301315

AS it looks like a reoccuring issue in game pipe system

[bronze barn]

I've not noticed any issues with my pipes, so it's a qualified guess to assume user error 😉
Inspect the pumps and machines along the way. They show their head lift and max head lift. If one is above the max, just add another pump 🙂

[magic aurora]

If you dont have an answer and are not aware of the bug - refrain from answering at all

I guess you didnt even research the screenshot i mentioned

[bronze barn]

You mean the screenshot that shows a full pipe with no flow going through it? I did.
I'm still going to assume there is no bug given I have yet to encounter one with pipes myself, but if you want to be rude to people who try to help then perhaps you might be in bad luck for the future 🙂 Have a good day

[magic aurora]

I mean a full pipe that has a liquid type of "NONE" in it. If you "try to help" look at the problem before assuming someone who is asking is stupid

[slate wraith]

Well. Where do I shove pumps around here aside the obvious point of lift up into the main factory?

I need HMF's but I can solve that easy.

[upper arrow]

how do you guys go around planning factories
im setting up a 2/min factory for one of the phase 3 elevator mission rn and some buildings need 4-8 buildings which is fine i have blueprints for those but sometimes i have 1.67 buildings do you just use the blueprints and scale it down to 1,67/4 or 1,67/8 so you could upscale it later down the road or how do people do this

[slate wraith]

A calculator I am slowly grasping how to use.

What do I want to produce and how many, input item usually end item. Shows me the math I need on machine amount, how much they need to produce, etc.

Then its just deciphering how I want to distribute said process at my factory.

Speaking of, is it ever bad to be overproducing items?

[static pivot]

Depend of what you want to do. Want to have 100% efficient factories ? Then yes overproducing is bad. Otherwise if I see that I need 1.89 constructors to do some stuff you can bet I'll just put 2 of them and let them run at 100%

[slate wraith]

So basically the obsession of the blue line in the power grid?

Or the blue symbol on machines?

[past reef]

the moment you use train you lose the power grid blue line

[static pivot]

I thought you talked about producing more of an item than needed no ? You were talking about overclocking ?

[slate wraith]

I overproduced big time on some items, but I downscaled on others because "math." and was told I didn't need to produce so many motors.

[past reef]

for producing you can split out belts from old factory but on tier 5-6 you kinda want a separate factory because HMF/computers takes way too much stuff to comfortably fork from existing place

[slate wraith]

I am now learning, yes, yes I very much do need to because I've been dashing back and forth with motors to build this refinery.

[slate wraith]

Challenge accepted.

[static pivot]

The worst that can happen is that you assembler won't be running if your belt/containers/depot are full

[slate wraith]

Isn't that just an awesome sink or send it to a train to pick up and carry off?

[static pivot]

Yes you can also redirect the overproduction somewhere else if you want but then..is it still overproduction ?

[slate wraith]

I mean I'm using a prime split belt point to know if I am or not.

If stuff is going into overflow, I am.

If not. Means something has to upgrade or downscale or math is gonna need to happen now I guess.

Right now though its just outright preparing to test where I need mk 2 pumps on the refinery and turning it on after the oil has made its way up.

[frosty owl]

If you feel like you need to put absolutely everything in the same power grid, that is 😉

[past reef]

true I can just power a train line with 2 random fuel gen and forget about it as long as I never delete a random cable line

[frosty owl]

I prefer to just have 2 separate grid, where one is the "backup" for the other (so it makes much less power) and also powering all vehicles, sinks and such

[slate wraith]

I just have switches now if I want something on or off at bases.

So I'll need pumps at major lift spots, but anywhere else I need pumps exactly?

Like in a long pipe line, every so often throw one up?

[past reef]

I use single grid with train as grid connector so I can fully shut down supply lines, no fancy block signals though

nah pump give head lift it's different, you don't need pump for a 500m level pipe, just put pump if pipe is not filled

then check the blue indicator and see where it ends you can place another pump

[vast jungle]

I definitely have to invest heavily in Priority Power Switches now that my Highspeed Connector factory is online

[slate wraith]

For the way up its 40 high at least, so I am throwing pumps there.

[frosty owl]

You need pumps only to have the fluid reach higher in the pipeline following the pump (to any branch).
You can check wether you've reached max headlift by using the headlift "ring helper" that appear on pipes with pumps on them when you try adding another pump or by checking out the headlift in the pump once it's going and fluid has reached the highest point in the pipework

[slate wraith]

Right now I just want to see if every machine runs smoothly or I messed up somewhere.

[frosty owl]

(So no, you don't need pumps to move fluid horizontally)

[slate wraith]

I usually do it at the way up since the headlift is...50 for Mk2's and I'm juuust near that height?

[cerulean stratus]

I really like how when making oil first, you can set up oil power, and then with the polymer you get do rubber, fabric and plastic for storage

[slate wraith]

I still mathematically I remember, only used 760oil out of 1500.

So I really COULD use some of it into other production, but right now I just want more power to work with and to know despite how slow I am, I can make this work.

My faith in my own work in this game is always low though.

Annnnd I see a problem. Pipes going up and rapidly declining in the produced....What is this? heavy oil residue?

Nevermind. Its working. I think.

[subtle goblet]

@torn plaza is this layout genius?

idk if anyone has made it before?

[slate wraith]

This place works. So far.

Overclocking 6 has worked.

[vast jungle]

isn't this a standard 4-way intersection?

I think a "flatter" perspective could help, so its easier to see which tracks are raised

[subtle goblet]

overhang intersiction no signals

[slate wraith]

Thank you calculator.

[deft lichen]

It's too tight so the tracks are clipping and path signals won't work, even leading to crashes

[vast jungle]

how much higher is the upper layer compared to the lower one?

[subtle goblet]

well thats something to fix

[vast jungle]

thats what I worry too

[deft lichen]

However the design could be implemented if you just make it bigger

It's only wrong because there isn't enough spacing

[subtle goblet]

how much bigger is the question

and higher

[vast jungle]

if you go much bigger, you can also go with the turbine Interchange...

[subtle goblet]

atm starting over with a bigger grid

[deft lichen]

1 foundation gap sideways, 2.5 foundation gap vertically at all times (including slopes and curves)

No less at any point anywhere in the junction

Just beware this might be a lot of trial and error

But I'm fairly confident it is possible to make it work

[subtle goblet]

aw what i thought of is nothing new?

[brisk smelt]

u can get away with less than 1 foundation of horizontal seperation

[subtle goblet]

2 half?

10 meters?
4+4+2?

[ashen girder]

Sounds right to me.

[torn plaza]

be interesting to see how that works

but it looks hideously dense and I imagine trains would clip through so much of it

[deft lichen]

Yes

[hexed gorge]

Trying to make factory blueprints. Going for a modular build style so I can expand easily. Problem: Is it better to have general purpose BP's like furnace stacks, constructor arrays, ect and configure them later or is it better to make a one-click design and have it produce advance materials just by inputting raw ore?

[vast jungle]

will be interesting if this style of intersection will be less or more dense than the Turbine Intersection

[ashen girder]

We can't really answer that for you.

[pastel obsidian]

both

[ashen girder]

One thing to be wary of: belts and splitters and mergers are directional.

[subtle goblet]

nnng too much trouble, need a different configuration

[ashen girder]

I personally have a BP for each machine, with pipes and machine lifts and power poles pre placed.

[pastel obsidian]

you can go into the bp to cofig them save and stamp down 10 of them

[ashen girder]

I also have a BP that's two preconfigured blenders making fuel and rocket fuel pre-belted and piped so I just need to hook up sulfur, coal, nitrogen, water and HOR.

[hexed gorge]

It's a personal gripe of mine to keep things organize, so I tend to make less BP then necessary.

So I mostly have these non-configured constructors, assemblers, or any production buildings and have to do them manually and deal with the ratios later.

Hence why, is it better to just have one-click blueprints instead and only worry about not spagettifying the belts?

[ashen girder]

Sounds like it? It really does come down to how you work.

That's how I did my biggest factory. I have platform blueprints I made that I set down to figure out spacing, and then my producer blueprints snap to the center of those.

Then I figure out how to connect everything.

[hexed gorge]

Yeh, I like it when BPs just snap together just like puzzle pieces.

[subtle goblet]

no more

[torn plaza]

naice

[subtle goblet]

@deft lichen

it should be all connected me thinks

could probably make it smaller

fits just fine

[torn plaza]

real tight

[subtle goblet]

too big for blueprints :(

[slate wraith]

Hrm.

So fuel gens run, but some refineries are yellow.

Ah. Liquids not going into the pipe system.

[shadow sinew]

is there a way to make drones wait for a full payload?

[plain fossil]

i was told this is a good HMF alternate, do i just pick it?

[brisk smelt]

it's the best resource to HMF recipe but logistically it is a pain in the ass

you will need to overclock your manufactureres to 184.3957% or something lol

[formal plinth]

it is indeed good
recycled plastic is also good though

so kinda depends
if you wanna make heavy modular frames right now, I would pick it
but if you are looking at plastic/rubber the right one is the pick I think

[plain fossil]

oh lol

yeah i ned hmfs now

i have enough plastic

[brisk smelt]

pick that ig

[formal plinth]

do you have "supporting" anternates for that already?

[brisk smelt]

encased is alright as well but it takes more raw doesn't it

[formal plinth]

like cast screw, steel screw, any alternates for modular frames, encased industrial pipe?

[brisk smelt]

yeah and you probably need the recipes for oil/plastic rubber fuel loop too

[formal plinth]

yeah theoretically heavy flexible frame is the best, but as you know already. logistics are annoying

[brisk smelt]

you can do 1 constructor: 1 manufacturer

[plain fossil]

i have encased pipe as an option

[brisk smelt]

1 constructor does 600, manufacturer can take in 600

[plain fossil]

thats a good choice actually i dont use a lot of pipes

[ashen girder]

Recycled plastic is now good. HFF is later good.

[brisk smelt]

in fact actually if u dont have mk5 you can just stuff in two ports of screws

and sushi belt one of them

[slate wraith]

Well.

[plain fossil]

what does later good mean

how much later

[ashen girder]

Phase 4/5 later.

[slate wraith]

From...4000MW to 10,000MW. Thank you fuel gens.

[brisk smelt]

when you have the big boi belts

[ashen girder]

Recycled Plastic is important in Phase 3.

[brisk smelt]

whats the point of recycled plastic w/o diluted

[slate wraith]

So is making the train that is supposed to bring it to me lol.

[ashen girder]

I mean. The point is to have it for when you can? I don't understand the question. 😛

[slate wraith]

This bridge is made for trains, not people.

[ashen girder]

I also feel like HFF probably isn't as valuable without recycled rubber.

[brisk smelt]

true ig

[plain fossil]

i also have recycled rubber

[ashen girder]

Also worth mentioing, a lot of people don't bother with HFF. HEF is more than good enough.

[pastel obsidian]

time for mods maybe

[brisk smelt]

doesn't 10k+ screws moving along belts look so nice though...

[plain fossil]

i gotta remake my whole steel making process

ferb, i know what we are doing today

i also have 250 power shard so i can basically supercharge anything

[brisk smelt]

overclock everythin!!

[plain fossil]

yup

ever since i realised somerslooping slugs is op

[civic bluff]

@torn plaza

[spare jolt]

recycled plastic and rubber are insane if you want to maximize one of them.
HFF is kinda meh because of screws

[plain fossil]

you people really hate screws here

[ashen girder]

It's inertia. 🤣

[spare jolt]

because screws have very low density on conveyers

[plain fossil]

(not like i use them)

[ashen girder]

Meanwhile: wire and quickwire.

[charred saffron]

Screws are a logistical issue most people don't feel like dealing with xD

[slate wraith]

You have no idea how merciless they get without alt recipes.

[charred saffron]

If you don't mind the math and logistics, though, a lot of recipes with screws are quite alright

[slate wraith]

Hey look at that precious, precious iron. You could spare it, buuuut. Machine says I NEED SCREWS.

[plain fossil]

ok i have 960 coal/m

[spare jolt]

not sure if wire and quickwire can be totally eliminated from production chains, while screws can

[brisk smelt]

you can do screws 1:1

[charred saffron]

I love my bolted frames and bolted plates alts, for example

[slate wraith]

Quickwire wire is a thing.

[brisk smelt]

1 constructor makes 600, manufacturer takes up to 935

[fringe seal]

some alts have 13 in factor with screws
which fits perfectly with steel screws, outputs 52 at once

[plain fossil]

is compacted steel worth?

[fringe seal]

yes imo

[slate wraith]

I use solid personally.

[spare jolt]

you can, buuuuuuuuut... why would you do that?

[plain fossil]

but sulfur is nowhere near this place goddamnit

[brisk smelt]

doesn't HFF take less raw ingredients

[plain fossil]

i have like 2 nodes in a 2km radius

[fringe seal]

ah right I confused it with solid 🤦‍♂️

[brisk smelt]

there is definitely a reason calculator uses it

[spare jolt]

maybe it does, but I don't use it anyway 🤷‍♂️

[fringe seal]

don't listen to this guy

[slate wraith]

I'm mathed out. Flow of pipes not transferring enough fuel to overclock all 12 fuel gens.

[plain fossil]

who is he even amirite

[slate wraith]

Might need to split off some oil since I can spare it, and integrate it into the system.

[plain fossil]

is it norml that i need to use pumps even for a 1m lift on pipes?

[spare jolt]

compared to other recipes - not really imo. considering CSS have nerfed its speed in 1.0, solid steel would still be your best bet

[wind spade]

Because that's how you deal with screws?

[spare jolt]

"The first way to deal with danger is to try to remove it" - ©️

[subtle goblet]

i dont think this configuration works

if the tracks are directly overhead it works

[wind spade]

Screws are not dangerous tho

[slate wraith]

Speaking of. I’m going to assume my piping itself needs more paths to share to transport more liquids, some of the refiners full aren’t getting enough liquid to constantly run.

So that’s a possible makeover lol.

[brisk smelt]

are screws very dangerous

[spare jolt]

of course they are! they make you obsessed with them and make your brain into thinking you always lack screws /jk

[subtle goblet]

can you load modded blue prints in unmodded games?

[ashen girder]

If they don't use any mod buildables, yeah.

[pastel obsidian]

yes

[brisk smelt]

screws 🥺 🙏

[plain fossil]

i mean rn this seems like my option

uses all the nearby iron

[deft lichen]

Use some alt recipes lol

[subtle goblet]

how do i rotate tracks in the blue print zone?

[civic bluff]

@torn plaza @dusky dust @safe hawk

More photos of my setup

[deft lichen]

Solid steel, encased industrial beam, heavy encased frame
You can also choose to use some alts for RIP/MF

[subtle goblet]

i cant rotate this? :/

just not enough space for track in mk3 blueprint builder

[cloud tree]

HMF 20/pm in progress, did make all the concrete, coal, steel ingots, iron ingots, plates, reinforce plates, wire, using 2 belts because i have mk5 only yet split in 390 and 428 + 642 and 585, coal is spare (900-820= 80) which im gonna sink for now but can be picked up by a drone for later use (Rocketfuel???) and iron 292 spare

[willow frost]

theres a mk3... damn alright. I'm still working my way through phase 2

[spare jolt]

yep, one of those many inconveniences of bp designer. the solution is to place a foundation and rotate it a wee bit until the rail points the right direction

[cloud tree]

seems good, working with the concrete pipe recipe rn

[subtle goblet]

its too smol when i need 10x10 or 13x13 for the overpass rail intersection

[willow frost]

How big/small is it?

[subtle goblet]

how much is mk1 again

[willow frost]

3? I think, mk2 is 5

[subtle goblet]

4x4? then mk2 is 5x5 and 3 6x6

[plain fossil]

i dont have solid steel :(, but im definetly using encased beam

yeah encased beam cuts down 30 coal and iron

[cloud tree]

usign this rn, i changed coal+iron to 820 instead of the 817

[plain fossil]

and i dont have to bother with weird decimals

[willow frost]

Thats probably it. I'm curious to see if it'll fit a previous modded blueprint I have for a 2L U-Turn

[plain fossil]

yeah but divide by 10

[subtle goblet]

whats the modded bp designer? this?

[willow frost]

doubt it though as I think that required 10x10

[deft lichen]

Get that ASAP
All steel ingot alt recipes are better than the default each in their own way

[cloud tree]

im gonna slam down now 41 constructors for pipes xd

[subtle goblet]

just look at this absolute unit

[cloud tree]

sexy

[willow frost]

yep thats defo gonna require a mode

[subtle goblet]

no signals needed even

[pastel obsidian]

I had a different one but it doent matter which one you use

[cloud tree]

fkking loving this game when you finish a big part of production feels so good this is 2400 limestone

still have to make it pretty tho xd

[willow frost]

I get why the vanilla blueprint designers are small but damn I really wish it was easier to blueprint tracks

[subtle goblet]

link?

[willow frost]

other than my straight line or bridge ones

[cloud tree]

would be cool to have a Train Track Designer, ngl

[pastel obsidian]

https://ficsit.app/mod/KBlueprintDesignPlus

[subtle goblet]

broken atm

[ashen girder]

You're definitely still gonna want signals. Any time rails are combining you want them.

[willow frost]

Yeah see if they added something like this that would balance the need for a larger designer. Not sure how they would differentiate a track to a road though

[pastel obsidian]

sadly

[willow frost]

"broken" as in not 1.0 supported or literally broken?

[cloud tree]

well theoretically it wouldnt harm to use it for any foundation based stuff right?

[subtle goblet]

just outdated

[wind spade]

this looks horrible, why would you eveer use this?

[willow frost]

Hard to say as thats what most of my roads are

[cloud tree]

since its super hard now to make proper turns and junktions, also if the tracks could be placed and auto snap i would have a wet dream

[subtle goblet]

but it takes time to build some complex intersections

and 6x6 just isnt nearly enough

[willow frost]

...its a U-turn my guy

[wind spade]

eh, this just works for pretty much everything

[wind spade]

I know... why would you need an U-Turn? why is the train not going the correct way in the first place?

[subtle goblet]

but im thinking if you rose a few track you would need less signals

[cloud tree]

well i mean, every thing to do with foundations woulndt harm to place it in a bigger desinger IMO as long as you cant place machines belting etc

[pastel obsidian]

some people like to drive trains

[willow frost]

As in in terms of lanes? They always stay on the right no matter what, its for situations where a train needs to needs to take a certain exit on the left lane

[wind spade]

as in terms of direction

[cloud tree]

yeh but once you figured it out i wouldnt mind to copy paste it right? i mean part of this game is to make your own rules anyways

[willow frost]

for example, rather than have my plastic/rubber train travel halfway across the world to get back to storage, it can simply turn around

[pastel obsidian]

you wouldnt have to have a junction at every station as well

[wind spade]

why do the top one when you can do the bottom one

[willow frost]

Beacuse its the same thing except it also incorporates the left lane as well as being a blueprint?

think of it like a mini round about

[wind spade]

it's not the same, the first one adds traffic in both direction and makes the journey unnecessary longer

roundabouts suck

[willow frost]

in game or irl?

[wind spade]

ingame

[pastel obsidian]

you have to do the bottom one at every staion

[willow frost]

The second one isnt much different. Both lanes would still have to come to a stop

[pastel obsidian]

you can do the top one less frequently

[wind spade]

if thats your problem, then build the red thing as overpass

[willow frost]

hell with the use of path signals on the round about not every train would have to come to a stop

[subtle goblet]

the mods biggest designer is 64x64x64 and its not big enough

[vast jungle]

I am not sure there are train roundabouts in real live 😉

[subtle goblet]

they exist

[pastel obsidian]

build it and use SCIM to turn it into a BP

[willow frost]

Funnily enough I believe there are

[vast jungle]

yes, but if they are they are gigantic in size...

[subtle goblet]

thats true

[cloud tree]

thats because trains are planned on a schedule which makes sense, they have designated stations and not flex routes like taxis.... thats why you plan your train to go station a -> b -> c -> a always in that order... why would they need to do random turn, the turn should be designed for that train, excluding IRL length of HUGE cargo trains

[subtle goblet]

idk how big but 500m radius minimum

[vast jungle]

not sure I would consider a circle with a diameter of a kilometer a roundabout ^^

[ashen girder]

https://www.reddit.com/r/trains/comments/t0jum9/why_do_train_roundabouts_not_exist/

[willow frost]

also cant lie, although your idea is simple, doubt it would work well in situations like this if I needed a turn around

[subtle goblet]

might be more common to call them loops

[plain rivet]

greenie is here to tell you in a condescending way why whatever you are doing sucks.

[willow frost]

P.S. I havent set up signals yet at this station

[plain rivet]

just ignore them

[cloud tree]

this wont fit at currewnt placement of the station, you just have to think a little bigger and place them 1`or 2 foundations further from the actual main track

[pastel obsidian]

Oops, we should just use trucks

[willow frost]

Oh yeah ill probably end up doing something similar to that once I get the full thing set up, maybe a few things different here and there depending on other station locations

[pastel obsidian]

you should have posted the turn table

[wind spade]

seems it would

[vast jungle]

was this patched with 1.0? I remember not being able to place a switch directly on a train station...

[cloud tree]

the closest cornor is 2.5 foundation in the above picture i think

[vast jungle]

I normally move my train stations even further apart from the track so that I can have a single t-junction to go from the normal rail into the "train station area"...

[cloud tree]

Nope you cant place them u need one piece of track

[wind spade]

the blue turn is same curvature

[willow frost]

sme?

[vast jungle]

smallest?

[cloud tree]

Yeh your right but you need a piece of track before the station

[subtle goblet]

no way to rotate this?

[vast jungle]

just begin in the middle of the platform and go to the side

[subtle goblet]

or think in diagonals

[vast jungle]

seeing all these MK3 designers... sigh I really need to get back to space elevator parts

[subtle goblet]

mine is actually modded

[vast jungle]

the 8x8 gave it away 😉

still, MK3 would be nice... MK2 is good enough for most factory blocks, but sometimes its a little bit too small

[subtle goblet]

as ada said:

[plain fossil]

i have 960m coal per minute and i only need 150

where do i use the rest

[subtle goblet]

steel

[plain fossil]

i go get more iron

[formal plinth]

steel, aluminum later on, power generation and some late game items use coal

no need to use everything right now

[past reef]

yeah for early game use those coal to reduce space needed for iron components like encased industrial beam/heavy modular frame

[brisk smelt]

ehh if ur really lazy u can actually sub out all steel parts for aluminum alt :D

[brisk smelt]

use more coal >:(

[plain fossil]

okaay geez dont scream at me

[brisk smelt]

SORRY I WILL SPEAK QUIETLY NEXT TIME

[plain fossil]

dude my pet hamster is sleeping

i lied i dont have a hamster

they grew legs im scared

ok i have dealt with the problem

[subtle goblet]

8x8 not big enough for tracks~

[sinful oasis]

Trying to wrap my head around train logistics. Is it just a bad idea to use both outputs on a station for two different production lines because of the gap when the train's docking? Saw someone say it's best to have two lines into an industrial storage and then just one line out from there.

[fringe seal]

the outputting (from station) belt will necessarily have periodic dry spells
so if you can't afford that then yeah, you should use buffer

[ebon dew]

It would depend on the exact input/output numbers. The point of the storage buffer with 2 belts in and 1 belt out is to be able to 'catch up' from the ~27 seconds you lose from the docking time where output from the freight station stops. If you're not using most of your belt throughput then it may not be an issue in your setup to use both outputs from a container

[proud totem]

Yes, it is all about the "headroom" you have on your belts. Say your train delivers 900 items/min, and so you unload using 2 MK4 belts (960 items/min total). That gives you a headroom of 60 items/min. However, when the train is stopped at the station, there is ~27s of time lost that your belts are not unloading those 900 items/min. This equates to ~405 loss of items that needs to be handled. Since the headroom is 60 items/min, you need 6.75min until the next train arrives in order to "catch up" from those 405 items

If instead you only had the train deliver 480 items, using 2 MK4 belts would provide 480 headroom, meaning you would only need the same 27s that it takes to unload for your head room to catch up

I typically go with about half a belt of headroom, since that will require about a minute and a half between trains for the belts to catch up, which I think is a good balance

[sinful oasis]

I think that makes sense. So if I had two MK5 belts at at 1560 a minute, docking would be a loss of roughly 702ppm...

[proud totem]

So if you have MK 4 belts, a single train car likely can easily handle 720 items/min

[proud totem]

Lemme double check the math real quick

But probably yeah

It depends on how many items the train itself is delivering that creates the loss. If you are feeding 1560ppm into the train, then yeah ~702 loss

But if you are only feeding in 1000ppm to the train, the loss is only 450 items. Loss depends on the input rate of the items to the train, not the belt speed

[sinful oasis]

Like, I have a setup where I have three trains picking up different ore across the dunes to a central refinery by the coast for pure ingots/wet concrete. I have three cargo carts for iron and two for copper and limestone. I'm wondering what would be the capacity for that kind of setup and how big I should make the refinery to futureproof it.

[proud totem]

Since essentially the loss comes from not being able to unload the items that were input into the train somewhere else

[proud totem]

Somewhat depends on your current belt speed and how many items each of those are doing. Like what is the ppm of each resource in total?

[toxic dove]

can someone confirm the nitro rocket fuel alt recipe actually exists ? 😭

[proud totem]

But essentially, with MK 5 belts, I would say 1 car for every 1170ppm

So if you have 2000 iron and 500 copper, 3 cars would be needed (2 for iron, 1 for copper)

[sinful oasis]

so right now for iron I have 1800 coming in across three cars split evenly at one depot. I can add some more depots for more when I need it.

[proud totem]

Because it will also be easier to keep items in cars separate

[proud totem]

Do you have MK 5 belts or MK 4?

[sinful oasis]

MK5

[proud totem]

Yeah, you should be more than fine, because that is only 600 per car

You might be able to get away with 2 cars since you have MK 5 belts, but you also must consider freight car capacity

[magic island]

one quirk is that as the belts get faster, your freight platform throughput goes up, but if you take advantage of that, you may start hitting the ceiling on freight car capacity

[proud totem]

Often that can be mitigated by having multiple trains, but each train causes 27s of loss that you have to catch up on. With 1/2 belt of headroom like I mentioned earlier, you need a minute and a half of time (on average) between trains to handle the loss

[subtle goblet]

which way do i place path signals?

[ashen girder]

Satisfactory is right-hand drive.

So signals only matter if they're on the right hand side of the train.

[sinful oasis]

Well I'm planning on adding more depots to pickup iron from. So like right now I can have a refinery to process 1800 iron per minute. I'm wondering big much I could expand this before it caps out

[proud totem]

What if you are European (I'm not, just being pretentious)? 😂

[wind spade]

right hand traffic / left hand drive

[sinful oasis]

yeah that really throws me off! Trains logistics keep throwing me off because it's doesn't seem like a set number or threshold

[magic island]

• freight car throughput = car capacity / route time
• freight platform throughput = belt or pipe capacity * percentage of time platform is unlocked

whichever is less, that's your max throughput

[proud totem]

Remember you can always just add a new station and a new train specificially for that station too

[merry topaz]

Does VIP piping still exist in 1.0, are there any changes from beta?

[sinful oasis]

I'm saving this. Thanks!

[subtle goblet]

is there is a little arrow on the track does this mean the train drives towards me in this case?

[amber umbra]

@sinful oasis I personally like doing 1 or less belt per wagon for trains. So a 1 loco, 1 wagon train would unload into an industrial storage container using 2 belts, then output from that into 1 belt. As long as the two stations are close enough the train system "magic teleports" the items between the station belts acting like a long distance belt.

[ashen girder]

Updated Pipeline Junction to be consistent in size
😂

[sinful oasis]

That's a good point. Maybe just plan for slightly less than double what I have now and open a new station if I need more?

[proud totem]

Yeah probably, especially if you only have MK II miners right now, since then you can more easily upgrade directly to MK III

[sinful oasis]

I have MK3, but I need to a fused frame and turbo motor factory first before I can make a lot

[proud totem]

I guess I'm risky because I use 1.5 belts per wagon

[sinful oasis]

wait how do you do 1.5 belts per wagon?

[merry topaz]

Yeah I think I've spent about 80 hours in game between starting my turbomotor factory and still not having finished my turbomotor factory.

[proud totem]

You only use up 1.5*belt throughput on that belt via machines

Or rather input 1.5*belt throughput into the train

[sinful oasis]

I've been meaning to make a HMF factory for a while but I keep getting distracted with other stuff like my massive diluted turbofuel powerplant or this whole refinery nonsense lol

[proud totem]

I.E. with MK 5 belts, I input ~1170ppm into a single station, usually determined by whatever creates the items

[sinful oasis]

oh duh, gotcha!

[proud totem]

HMF is somewhat up next for me! But I am realizing that my steel plant is a little unbalanced for HMF, since I have 156.67 encased beams/min but only 100 pipes/min

Pipes are unfortunately my limiting factor

But that still gives me ~3.7 HMF/min

[sinful oasis]

oh yeah, I'm planning on like 14 HMF/m which needs about 575 pipes, but with solid steel it'll just need like 575 iron ingots and coal wow that's weird it works out that way...

[subtle goblet]

but do i place path signals at the entrance or exit?

[sinful oasis]

once I get this refinery up this should be really easy to get working I think, especially since the refinery could supply up to 3300 iron ingot/min

[proud totem]

Yeah, I should probably downclock my encased beam production to gain back some pipes for HMF

Thankfully my design should (or at least with very minor changes) support simply downclocking the encased beam production and that directly gives me pipes back, since I am using the encased pipe alt

Also gotta deal with the excess concrete though

[sinful oasis]

molded pipes?

[proud totem]

Yeah, I am using both molded pipes and encased pipes

[sinful oasis]

oh gotcha!

[proud totem]

Yeah, I am using a lot of concrete

OR I could just make iron pipes or something, or just deal with 3ish HMF/min

[sinful oasis]

.7's not a bad loss to make logistics easier

[merry topaz]

tbf, I find concrete one of the more difficult resources to run out of in the game. There's just so much of it, even with all the alt recipes.

[proud totem]

That's why I figured I'd use it here. It seems mostly useful for steel anyways so

[plain fossil]

did i set the 1 to 5 up correctly?

[sinful oasis]

I think that's correct?

[brisk smelt]

yes

[bleak ivy]

is there any use for fluid cars on trains?

[proud totem]

Once it is saturated

[brisk smelt]

to transoort liquids

[bleak ivy]

yeah but i figure packaging would be more space efficient

[proud totem]

It looks like the best use of pipes for HMF would be to make 108.3333 encased beams and save the rest as pipes

[magic island]

if you have to send the containers back, that takes up more space again

[proud totem]

Oh shoot, but I need stators too since I actually want adaptive control units 😬

[brisk smelt]

why default hmf

[proud totem]

That isn't default, that is for heavy encased

Sorry, that is for me adjusting my current steel setup

[brisk smelt]

oh cuz i thought u mentioned steel pipes in the recipe

[proud totem]

I am making like 1040 pipes total rn

Encased frame does use pipes

[brisk smelt]

oh wait yeah im stupid nvm

[proud totem]

Only flexible frame doesn't

[cedar mica]

But the train has to get back there, to pickup the next round anyway, so not really spending any more space. Unless you reuse the trains?

[proud totem]

u good nw

[magic island]

well, you need to add a car/platform for the empties

[merry topaz]

FWIW I believe the efficiency on fluids is much better than packaged fluids

[brisk smelt]

but belts can do 1200/min compated to 600 pipes so equal throughput, no

[cedar mica]

Another station for the container pickup, so it can go back filled with empty containers. Yes, its more platforms, but its the same sized train.

[plain fossil]

how my HMF factory is going currently

[magic island]

it takes 2 Mk2 pipes to transport 1200 fluid

it takes 2 Mk6 belts to transport 1200 packaged fluid (one belt with full canisters, the other carrying the empties back)

[proud totem]

If I basically halved my encased beam production from 156.67 to 76.67, then I could make ~17.7 ACUs/min with 100 steel pipes leftover and ~17.4 encased beams leftover

[magic island]

personally, I only transport packaged fluids by train if it's something like fuel that gets consumed on use and doesn't give empties back

[proud totem]

So lesson learned, make more pipes

[brisk smelt]

and nitrogen, absolutely package that

[magic island]

I've done packager drone routes for nitro. drones are good at trading

[supple gazelle]

I need 750 nitric acid/min and I’m thinking a fluid wagon is just the best bet for this build. Dealing with the packages is just an extra headache, I won’t need the full train ever, let alone 2 of them

[cedar mica]

It works better for drones, as input and output is seperate. Not sure about trains. As in the buffer dont overlap.

[merry topaz]

I mean trains unload/load in parallel and there is essentially little to no drawback to adding an extra car so I wonder if you're better off foregoing the packaging aspect and just doubling your fluid cars, if you're actually at 1200 / min fluid production.

[magic island]

I do love that there's enough recipes now to justify making nitric acid in bulk and shipping it around. I never liked the weird little numbers of plates required when blending it on-site.

[sinful oasis]

oh on my refinery, someone just tell me if this is a good idea or not.

I have three stations unloading iron, copper, and limestone to process into ingots and concrete. I'm planning on one or two outgoing stations with three cars each, each car with a different thing to ship out to factories. Any obvious issues with that I haven't thought of?

[proud totem]

My only thought is I guess why have a separate factory specifically for just 1 step of the chain, rather than produce ingots where you need them? But that is honestly more of a preference than anything

[magic island]

I tend to keep ingot production separate, since they're versatile. And it means I can update the ingot recipes as the game progresses without interfering with the production factories (and vice versa)

[sinful oasis]

It'd make factories a big smaller and the dunes doesn't have a lot of water around, so I bring them all over to the coast to refine them with water since it's like double the output

[proud totem]

Fair

I guess I typically tend to moreso go the route of big plant for one category, i.e. I have a steel plant that makes ingots and then uses the ingots, and same for iron. Like I'd probably make a plant that creates ingots and then iron rods, plates, and screws all at one place

Then I send those items wherever

[magic island]

I mean, often for me, "separate ingot production" may still mean "right next door"

I just don't tend to have my smelters and foundries sharing floorspace with constructors and assemblers

[proud totem]

Well, somewhat everything on the map is relatively "right next door". Like the map is big, but also definitely workable with the distances

Just make belt highways everywhere and skip trains 💀

That's what I did when EA first launched since trains did not exist. Belted oil all the way to the plains

[sinful oasis]

but have you considered: Trains are Cool!

[proud totem]

Trains are very cool, actually my favorite part of the game

Well, that and big factories

[sinful oasis]

which is why this sounds like a lotta fun c:

imagine three big towers right next to eachother each producing a different type of thing!

[proud totem]

Yeah that'd be pretty sick

[sinful oasis]

but like the base of all three towers will have a station that goes right through it loading outgoing ingots/concrete! I can't wait to... end up making a blocky mess cause I can't really decorete buildings but it's gunna be cool in concept!

[proud totem]

Decorating buildings is so tough

[deft lichen]

is that an online planner?

[sinful oasis]

Satisfactory Modeler. It's a free thing on steam or seperate download on their site if you want

it's super handy, gives you like an infinite canvas to work with

[deft lichen]

oh I see

I do all my stuff in SFTools, I was just curious

[sinful oasis]

ah gotcha!

[prisma kraken]

i'll keep saying it, sp.runesun.com does much the same thing but without the gui getting in the way

[sinful oasis]

looking at it now. I'm not a fan of the UI though. I really prefer seeing things laid out in a tree.

[topaz hedge]

can drones use less than 1 unit of fuel per trip? thinking about using plutonium fuel rods as fuel for them xd

[ashen girder]

🤣 I was about to say "Oh hey, that's what moonchild uses" but, well.

[proud totem]

That's why I use satisfactory tools. It gives a graph view but in a pretty simple view

Probably also one of the better solvers out there since it uses a linear program solver, so it works really nicely with byproduct loops

[sinful oasis]

mhm, I'm just a fan of being able to work forward instead of backwards. I like how modeler lets you add your own nodes and and methods. Overview stats in tools are nice though, and the modeler dev's working on adding them.

[shadow sinew]

Is turbofuel blend any good?

[proud totem]

Yeah, tools only lets you specify inputs and desired outputs, but not quite so much custom nodes

[sinful oasis]

the legendary "where's the water come from" "yes" "understandable have a nice day"

[ashen girder]

Oh no. World borders changed again:

Pushed back the World Map borders (North West Diagonal) so everyone can access their old bases again

Also, can we stop telling people that floor holes for pipes are The Literal Devil? They fixed them. 👀

[cedar mica]

That remains to be seen. Pipes are janky even without that bug that got fixed.

[ashen girder]

Yeah, but that jank exists with or without floor holes. 😛

[cedar mica]

Floor holes just add another set of jank...

[ashen girder]

Well, not anymore. They fixed it.

[proud totem]

Was just about to say this 😂

[cedar mica]

As I said, we will have to wait and see, if it got fixed or not.

[proud totem]

Fair, remove 1 bug add 2 more

[ashen girder]

Ah, yes. Let's not trust their QA process, and instead continue spreading superstition. 👍

[cedar mica]

Players can QA more in a day, then devs can in a year, just from shear numbers.

[ashen girder]

Counterpoint: fully half of the "issues" I've found lately with pipes were due almost entirely to user error.

[cedar mica]

And there is that, bug vs feature vs user...

[proud totem]

Most of my own issues were me accidentally using a MK1 where there should've been a MK2

[proud totem]

Users are bugs 😂

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that's one kind. Another one is just plain mathing wrong. Another one is failing to realize that 1260 is greater than 600x2.

My problem is when people say "don't use floor holes", they tend to also intonate that they'll cause mysterious throughput issues that, as far as I'm aware, have been long fixed.

When the issue is, and for the most part always has been, sometimes it just fails to pipe correctly. Which is far more obvious.

And can happen with basically any pipe connection, not just floor holes.