math-and-meta

[naive ingot]

The point of fertile is that it uses much less water.

[thorn bane]

i mean storing plutonium waste is still INSANE for power
but ye they just need to reduce ficsonium rod costs

[vast jungle]

I think the Ficsonium Fuel Rod is only good if you add the Energy you get from the Plutonium Fuel Rod

[grim crane]

k k

so whats the max plutonium waste you can produce?

did anyone runn the numbers

[tight crag]

yes, that's the only reason you would want to make ficsonium

[thorn bane]

wait what?

[vast jungle]

think about it as the equivalent of "burning trash for heat energy"

[grim crane]

enough for me

[thorn bane]

yes thats what i did in that planner
ficsonium: 2/0.2+0.5/0.1+2.5/1 = 17.5 NPPs
uranium: 3.5/0.2 = 17.5 NPPs + 0.875 Plutonium sink
it still uses WAY more resources

[vast jungle]

its the price for eating your plutonium cake and keep it (waste free)

[thorn bane]

the 2.5 ficsonium rods is the ficsonium NPPs part

but why is sinking plut. rods just cheaper

maybe they need to disable sinking plutonium rods xD
wasnt that made by mistake anyway?

[naive ingot]

With a Somersloop overclock, the Fertile Uranium recipe produces exactly as much water byproduct as the acids in the recipe consume.

[thorn bane]

wait youre slooping power production?

[naive ingot]

I'm not, but I noticed the math.

[thorn bane]

and even then default uses exactly the same water as sulfuric aswell? both are 15m³/min

[tight crag]

the thing that irks me about ficsonium is the following:

• realistically, plutonium energy is only needed if you want to use every resource on the map
• people who do that have in most cases a goal like 'most sink points / min'
• SAM ore is way too valuable to be trashing it into ficsonium
  I really don't see a current use case for it other than 'I want all the available production chains'

[cursive heron]

fertile is used when you want to maximize plutonium output for x amount of waste

[vast jungle]

I don't think so... they just gave us another option

[thorn bane]

but why is the easier solution better than the complicated one

[vast jungle]

it easier solution gives less energy for a certain input of Uranium

[thorn bane]

ey man i just like building the most difficult item in the game xD

[glad vigil]

With some overclock management you can get a waterless bauxite refinement

[naive ingot]

Yep.

[cursive heron]

using only fertile cleanly outputs 2:1 ratios uranium/plutonium

[thorn bane]

with converters uranium is really not an issue anymore
its all the other stuff thats the problem
like why do i need 600 copper for pasta just to use ficsonium rods

[tight crag]

yes, as I wrote, that's currently the only incentive for it, because the numbers don't add up to its favour

[glad vigil]

However, my favourite part of slooping is boosting assembler alt recipes like oc supercomputer

[grim crane]

wait i can only produce 50 uranim fuel rods a min?

[naive ingot]

Also, sloop the Pressure Conversion Cubes too, that's a no-brainer.

[grim crane]

oh slooping

[thorn bane]

you can make 256/min without slooping

[grim crane]

does it just boost output for same input?

[glad vigil]

Yes

[grim crane]

then the planer is being stupid rn

[tight crag]

for the cost of a shitload of energy

[cursive heron]

50.4

[thorn bane]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=EelsQThIIAztCVX7Sr13
thats pre converter numbers

[vast jungle]

unfortunately there are not enough Loops to double this 😉

[grim crane]

without converted

[naive ingot]

4x the energy if I'm remembering right?

[vast jungle]

for manufacturers, yes

[grim crane]

just alt recepies

[thorn bane]

but we do live in 1.0

[glad vigil]

You can sloop the plutonium production though

[grim crane]

i wanna use exactly all uranium nodes
not get more uranium

[thorn bane]

thats horrible since it increased ficsonium need

[grim crane]

also the planer is giving me 10k sam ore for 256 rods

[vast jungle]

then its ~ 50/min

[grim crane]

k

[tight crag]

if the output is doubled, yes

[glad vigil]

But it doesn’t require that much sam

[thorn bane]

its the other stuff like copper for pasta

[fervent notch]

Think i overdid it a bit...

[tight crag]

...for now

[thorn bane]

fine as long as you have batteries

[fervent notch]

https://tenor.com/view/exactly-point-gif-23257114

[grim crane]

that takes 55mw omg 💀
and produces 625500 mw

thats about
all i need for 1.0

[tight crag]

have you guys already slooped and 250% a nucler pasta accelerator? Fun stuff xD

[grim crane]

freeing up oil from fuel

[cursive heron]

you made it sound like you can make 256 without converters. When people ask whats the max amount of fuel rods I can make I don't think anyone is thinking 'turn 12k bauxite into uranium'

[grim crane]

250% yes

[sharp verge]

when can we expect a patch? atleast fixing the uranium waste water bug?

[tight crag]

if you sloop it the max power draw is something around 24GW 😄

[grim crane]

at some point you run out of nodes for no waste

[thorn bane]

you turn caterium into bauxite
i think its really viable
theres bunch of nodes around and uranium is quite capped

[grim crane]

also bauxit feeld very dry

i meant max out of the 2.1k uranium available

with all the same shit and etc

basically with all 1.0 stuff but no converter

my autistic ass not gonna touch 1 converter

[cursive heron]

if you really want to cap out the 2.1k uranium available while maximizing power, if you're willing to make a landfill in the void. Maximize recipes so you get the most plutonium rods with the plutonium fuel unit alt then sloop it. Plutonium unit is an assembler.

[grim crane]

ok ok hear me ot
modded recepie that just convers plutonoim back to uranium ore in a manufacturer

💀

so you get like 50% of the uranium out you would put in without alt recepies

so you can SCALE

that shit would be hilarious

so you can go from 2.1k to another 1.05k

then half that again
and again
and again

[tight crag]

if you sloop it, it would be self-sufficient 4Head

[grim crane]

Until you get to exactly 0

[grim crane]

Oh yeah

Then you can convert the unranium into like coal or smt

[grim crane]

ok i need to do this 💀

slooping is just overpowerd ngl

[tight crag]

no need to discuss math and meta about mods though...since possibilities are endless there

[grim crane]

They balanced the late game sooo shitty that you need sloops

[vapid gorge]

Nah, late game is fine

[tight crag]

the only imbalanced thing about lategame are those low elevator numbers required

[cursive heron]

not really, it speed things up but you don't need need it

[grim crane]

Ok ok

let me say it diffrently

lategame is balanced well on the suffering of midgame

[vapid gorge]

Suffering?

[grim crane]

fused frames gonna kill me

[vapid gorge]

Make a big bauxite set up :p

[grim crane]

thats not the problem

bauxit is fun

I love bauxit lol

[cursive heron]

what is

[grim crane]

screws

[edgy leaf]

u dont need screws for fused frames

[grim crane]

heavy frames

[cursive heron]

you can have alts that remove screws entirely

[edgy leaf]

u dont need screws for heavy frames :)

[thorn bane]

speaking of bauxite
are you guys using the bauxite ficsite recipe? i was using caterium but it honestly seems better

[tight crag]

may I introduce you to our lord and saviour 'alternate recipes'?

[grim crane]

i swear on flexibgle heavy frames

[edgy leaf]

also, id recommend just putting the screws inline with the manufacturer, thats how i do it

[unborn ermine]

If its the ratios? MAKE MORE and its not a problem

[edgy leaf]

use cast screws and just plop iron in and u get HMFs

transporting screws is usually not fun, at least for me

[wind spade]

you don't need to do that though
removing screws is so U2

[grim crane]

i mean sure, thats a way, but can we get like compacted screws??
cus omg the beltwork for them before you have alternatie recepies is ungodly

[tight crag]

🤢

[cursive heron]

I think thats called steal beams

[crystal charm]

god damn water balancing with aluminium can be frustrating sometimes

[edgy leaf]

uh, just one belt, straight from the constructor into the manufacturer.

thats not difficult beltwork

[grim crane]

wait is there a steal beam recepie?

[thorn bane]

idk 1200 screws per minute gets you quite far

[wind spade]

[cursive heron]

no you transport steal beam instead of screws

then turn it into screws at the site

[edgy leaf]

view steel beams as packaged screws and a consrtuctor as an unpackager :foreheadtap.gif:

[grim crane]

thats not always a good way personally

I rn have the issue where i need to balance about 13 manufacturers onto 5 belts

[thorn bane]

i only use screws for rotors and 1200 screws is more than enough than i would ever need

[cursive heron]

1 beam is 52 screws

[tight crag]

I might use screws again with mk.6 belts

[cursive heron]

basically this, if you're bent on using screws

[edgy leaf]

if u like ur way better then do ur way, but uve been complaining about how ur way sucks so i thought id recommend a different way

[wind spade]

it's pretty much recommended to build screws in front of machines that need them

[crystal charm]

did someone say screws?

#screenshots message

[thorn bane]

thats so 0.8

[grim crane]

i just plopped in the most efficent satisfactory tools gave me with the stuff i have unlocked lol

[wind spade]

what lol

[edgy leaf]

thats not necessarily always the best choice

satisfactorytools optimizes for WP, do u consider using hte least amount of WP to be the most efficient?

[unborn ermine]

HMM I got curious about how many screws you can "transport" as beams in the mid game

[thorn bane]

mk6 belts exist

[grim crane]

I mean sure, but i wanna go for the best resource to en product

and i looked at multiple ways, and the one i have rn with my current recepies was the best

[edgy leaf]

satisfactorytools doesnt always show u the best resource to end product.

[wind spade]

yeah and? most recipes are still 1:1 or 1:2 or close to that

[cursive heron]

best resource to end product only matters if you plan on actually using every resource in the game

[edgy leaf]

objective best resource to end product doesnt exist

[grim crane]

subjective best use
sry

considering i made all the factories in phase2
with limited recepie variaty

[thorn bane]

idk reducing the number of miners you need to build is still nice

[vapid gorge]

Or you don’t want to love more resources

[edgy leaf]

optimizing for WP doesnt necessarily reduce the number of miner u need

[grim crane]

WP?

[thorn bane]

true

[cursive heron]

besides, before every plan is whether or not it's not so complicated that you're not overwhelmed when building it
and right now you're looking pretty overwhelmed

[edgy leaf]

yes, thats what satisfactorytools does

[grim crane]

whats WP

[unborn ermine]

Ironically it kind of does for the messed up people that bring ALL the resources into one location

[wind spade]

well, not really, as WP is wiki stuff

[edgy leaf]

what does satisfactorytools do then?

[thorn bane]

default calculation is reducing wp in tools?

[wind spade]

but it does do weighted resources

[grim crane]

whats WP?

[edgy leaf]

weighted points

[grim crane]

and whats weighted points?

just the worth per resource?

[wind spade]

meaning WP from wiki is calculated differently from weights in Tools. But it leads to similar/same result

[tight crag]

everything gets points. If something is more important, it gets more points

[grim crane]

ahh k k

[edgy leaf]

also like, satisfactorytools doesnt consider the other things that you want to do in your world. it might give you a chain thats is incredibly inefficient for our goals.

[unborn ermine]

think of it like scarcity value

[edgy leaf]

depending on what u want to do it could give you the most resource inefficient recipe possible

[thorn bane]

doesnt it reduce radius of miners though?
like if you use 10% of the map then you only need to setup mines for 10% of the map
i guess different biomes are different but its kinda close to average?
like if im building a mega base then minimizing WP reduced the max distance i need to go to build a miner

[grim crane]

ye smt its bit inefficent with stuff, thats why i kinda missmatch a bit around
but its a nice way to ay out a plan atleast

If it would just also explain to me how it thinkgs i should belt all those items together would be fire

[edgy leaf]

its perfectly efficient with what it optimizes for afaik. but what satisfacotrytools optimizes for and what u optimize for isnt necessarily the same...

[grim crane]

i optimise for my own suffering the most efficently

satisfactory tools does the same

Win win

[tight crag]

you shouldn't view this game as suffering 😄

[grim crane]

like who actually need 225 quartzs oscilators a min?
why did i do it? cus i like suffering myself

[edgy leaf]

well satisfactory tools doesnt optimize for that : )

[grim crane]

same with early game mega projects

[grim crane]

it does help with it

[thorn bane]

if you use them for motors and computers then thats not too much

[grim crane]

i used them for beacons for nuclear

The rest… im not sure

cus i already produce 70 of them elsewhere

it was just more for the sake of more

[thorn bane]

dude i miss beacons

[edgy leaf]

btw, is harddrive scanning fixed?

[tight crag]

from what I experienced, yes

[edgy leaf]

like, scanning for hard drives with the object scanner, not the stuff in the mam

[grim crane]

do you all label your belts?

[edgy leaf]

no, but i color them

[grim crane]

or do you all go i will remember what is going where?

[tight crag]

no, I look at what's on them

[grim crane]

i found a random unconected belt in my iron foundry… 75 iron going nowhere…
missing somewhere else

atleast that one was more easy to find out cus there was a merger with no belt input the floor above

[unborn ermine]

Ive got a few like that, but they are waiting for the next production line to be made

[vast jungle]

I especially like this together with Floor holes... "where does this thing go? Oh, I did not continue it on the other floor"

[grim crane]

yeah

[cerulean stratus]

so between the rips recipes, which is more iron efficient

[grim crane]

or i just made a common use steal plant for motors that also produces 50 pipes for heavy frames…

Guess who is gonna forget what that random belt leading into nowhere is for

[tight crag]

I normally use overflow setups with connecting from source. No need for labeling this way

[grim crane]

oh

[thorn bane]

adhered
my beloved

[cerulean stratus]

with rubber?

[thorn bane]

yep

its so good

[grim crane]

i thought about taht

making a overflow circle system for my big ingot productions

So i can supply all belts to the max in theory, so i can just exactly place the amount of usage i need, and not worry about beltig

but idk how to load balance that all without it being fugly

basically like a modular system that can drain as much as the belt can supply from a supply
but omg balancing that gonna be a nightmare

[tight crag]

Not talking about a recursive overflow. Just a manifold system with starting up every chain element as soon as it's done. That way I can make sure everything connected and working and already filled by the time I turn on the final production step. The numbers are usually perfectly balanced

[grim crane]

Ohh i see

Nah i wanna make a rercursive overflow for everything at this point

i am done with balancing .1.5k ingots into 18.3333 manufacturers

[tight crag]

manifolding into 18@100% and 1@33.34%? (enter round item/min instead of %)

[past reef]

unless you plan resource usage all the way back from beginning you can never have all machine nice number later on

[unborn ermine]

The SINK:
"Am I a joke to you?"

[cerulean stratus]

there's no real priority merger though

[unborn ermine]

But honestly its great having some garbage recursive number being in a line that overflows, then another thats ALSO recursive later that takes the rest.

[tight crag]

yeah, I miss that feature, for my rocket fuel coal into turbo fuel plant I am using the binary splitter/merger line

[grim crane]

this whole thing was actually planend from the beginning to work nicely together

But then trough some shitty cast screws now i need 49.333 steal beams somewhere…

I rounded to 50 so i can get maybe a round number before… NOPE!

now the whole line needs a extra 333 at the end

extra 33 coal

33 iron
0.33333 foundry
0.3333 manufacturer

[unborn ermine]

I cant remember the cast screws, but I remember steel screws, everything is a multiple of 13 for that

[tight crag]

if you underclock your last machine it will work at 100% efficiency 😉

[grim crane]

i have 14 250% foundries, and then one underclocked one hidden in the basement next to all my logistical resource belt work

[past reef]

man that sucks, a sink works in those case but they're bulky af

[tight crag]

For my fancy builds, I care about flowing belts, not about % numbers on my machines

it's a lovely sight when everything is working non-stop and every belt is flowing items constantly

[grim crane]

i want to just say i have 100% efficenty

while every belt overflows

for somer reason the base resources still back up, even if i sing the end resouce

[unborn ermine]

I recently had a moment, ironically with screws, that I managed to EXACTLY have enough beams to do a workaround.

[thorn bane]

flowing belts indicate a problem in my view
a backed up belt means theres enough resources on it

[grim crane]

and it all should be a 100% use

[grim crane]

backed up belts scare me…
because it feels like i did smt wrong

[tight crag]

only if machines are pausing 😉

[thorn bane]

that do be da way

[grim crane]

my ass even gets preassure cubes to overflow
i use in plutonium

[unborn ermine]

Theres a difference, backed up or stuttering?
when you overflow properly you have stable lines and flow.

[thorn bane]

i actually balance fmfs for pressure cubes
since it takes fucking forever to fill

[grim crane]

lol

even with 15/m i get overflow

[unborn ermine]

Ive been immediately splitting off my ore before I start and sinking it, its a good feeling when everything works 100% and the sink stops being needed

[wintry marlin]

Does a tool exist that gives me a good location for factories, if i give it a list of different inputs i need?

[grim crane]

i can help

i also include style and coolness factor

and bias

[worn trout]

Northeast corner

[wintry marlin]

nah, i want an acutal automated tool

[thorn bane]

dont think that exists

[grim crane]

northeast corner is kinda bad

[worn trout]

There's a hole in the map so you can build underneath it

[wintry marlin]

i kinda wanted to optimize for low ressource transport lenghts

[worn trout]

Trains

[grim crane]

what you need

[wintry marlin]

ew

[worn trout]

Wdym ew

[grim crane]

trains in satis are not like db

[wintry marlin]

i dont like vehicles

[worn trout]

Trains are cool and give me a reason to build stuff that isn't for a factory

[grim crane]

they good

[vast jungle]

trains are really nice...

[grim crane]

i hate trucks

[vast jungle]

Trucks? Not so much 😉

[worn trout]

• they transport tons of materials

[wintry marlin]

i know they are good and nice, but i dont like using them. i dont see the benefit over belts.

[worn trout]

Trucks are alright but the factory cart is better

[grim crane]

i actually build a track again

[worn trout]

Coolness factor

[grim crane]

but i could have used belts

[wintry marlin]

meh, i like belts

[worn trout]

Bitches love a man with a proper rail network spanning the map.

[wintry marlin]

skybridges with belts >>>

[grim crane]

coolness, showing of,,

higher troughput trugh km placed

[grim crane]

where my bitches 💀

[worn trout]

On the train

[unborn ermine]

Under The MAP belt system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that

[hasty nacelle]

Trains really start becoming better than belts when you have multiple factory's hooked up to 1 station.

[grim crane]

im in germany, they never gonna arive

[worn trout]

My trains also go under the map

[vast jungle]

quantum trains... you don't know if they come until you are at the train station

[grim crane]

eww

[cerulean stratus]

honestly I prefer tractors over belts. Once I was going to transport some quartz with belts and I was thinking I should really do a tractor for this but na. Then I saw Coal right in front of me

[worn trout]

they took a wrong turn into poland

[wintry marlin]

meh, i like how my belt skybridges look,

1 belt can get everything from 1 ressource anyways, so i dont need higher throughpu

[worn trout]

Wdym ew I got some cool ass tunnels

[wintry marlin]

also, trains dont deliver ressources with the same perfect consistency/timing

[grim crane]

i have a lot of routes into the same direction, and smt i needa transport like 800 rubber

[wintry marlin]

never ran into a problem like that.

[cerulean stratus]

thing is, I don't see why use trucks, when you can use tractors or trains

[grim crane]

2 trains are easier to setup for that
to go from cold coaster to desert

and transport all that

[vast jungle]

trains also don't jump of the street in random moments

[grim crane]

then your network is ba

[wintry marlin]

i mean, neither do belts

[hasty nacelle]

Where are you building that has every resource in sufficient quantities?

[worn trout]

I also run pipes through my train bridges so I don't have to run liquid cars

[grim crane]

ohh
no

thats kinda cool

[vast jungle]

yeah, but long range train connections are easier to build than belt highways, especially because you can use the same train track for multiple trains

[grim crane]

i have tunels under my factory on the in/exit from the stations

[wintry marlin]

i dont, i have a belt with 240 compact coal going from NW corer down to the SW Oil, over half the map

[vast jungle]

whats wrong with liquid cars?

[wintry marlin]

but 1 belt is enough for that

[worn trout]

I also run hypertubes through the support structure for people travel, and the top has hand rails and is wide enough to fit a tractor and/or people walking

[wintry marlin]

only benefit trains have over belts for items is that its easier to increase throughput

[worn trout]

Ugly

[cerulean stratus]

oh wow I wanna see how that's working

[worn trout]

I'll get a screenshot from my friend, we designed it together (he's still building while I sleep lmao)

[wintry marlin]

yeah, the multiple trains thing is the only benefit i see...

[grim crane]

thats the only thing i need ngl

[vast jungle]

I just build a train engine every times I need to travel along a track...

[grim crane]

29 trainss, up to 5 cars long

also holy liquid trains in the desert

[cerulean stratus]

is there even a benefit to a map wide train network?
You can do most things locally, and if they're far away you can use drones

[grim crane]

drones are meh

[wintry marlin]

wdym u dont have ur 1 hypercannon set up to shoot any direction u wanna go in? (i play with full keepinventory, so i respawn to get back)

[vast jungle]

thats the main benefit I think... you can build the infrastructure (rail network) once and use it for the rest of the game

[cerulean stratus]

wym, drones are not meh

[worn trout]

I'm gonna pump all my oil up into the bridge so that I get it at my mega factory

[edgy leaf]

opinions on oc supercomputer?

[vast jungle]

never got the hang on hypercannons... I just use trains

[wintry marlin]

but then i would need 1 network spanning the whole map... seems annoying af to build

[vast jungle]

trains have autopilot... hypercannons do not

[worn trout]

1. Style points for trains
2. Hypertube cannons are fun but very plain
3. Funny

[edgy leaf]

hypertubes >>> trains >>> hypercannons

[thorn bane]

fucking bait
it uses soooo many resources
super/def. all the way

[edgy leaf]

u can make hypertubes have autopilot

[grim crane]

drones are just, i mean i have a full map drone network transporting nitrogen, in a closed loop not wasting any containers for it to be packaged again…

but like, trains are so much better for MASS

like 50 a min drones sure

500 a min?
TRAINSS!!!

[thorn bane]

belts

[grim crane]

sure

[vast jungle]

not without mods... landing with a hypercannon require player activity

(or going splat)

[worn trout]

Style > function any day imo

[edgy leaf]

without mods. im talking about hypertubes, not cannons

[cerulean stratus]

thing is, what are you transporting that you need 500 a min

[grim crane]

gonna do a belt from the gold coast to the dunes then split off half to the other desert

[wintry marlin]

meh, u can build sth to catch you

[thorn bane]

hyper tube with multiple entrances not cannon

[vast jungle]

I normally end to use hypertubes when I get trains... except to connect my factories with a rail-station closeby 😉

[edgy leaf]

hypertube with multiple entrances and exits that can autopilot.

[cerulean stratus]

I only use hypertubes to go up

[hasty nacelle]

So if you needed to bring a new resource over that bridge, you build an entire new belt line stretching half the map?

[edgy leaf]

i have the hypertube supports built into my rail blueprints so i just connect one rail, the other, and the tube. and its done

[cerulean stratus]

other than that, hypertube cannon

[grim crane]

Water

[wintry marlin]

what other ressource would need to go there?

[grim crane]

Ruber

[cerulean stratus]

why not build near water

[thorn bane]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/jo1n7u/from_one_side_of_the_map_to_the_other_in_eight/

[hasty nacelle]

Maybe you want to upgrade to rocket fuel, in that case you either need iron for nitric acid, or coal+sulphur on their own for nitro rocket fuel.

[vast jungle]

yeah, but still point to point... which means the number of tubes you need grows quite a bit when your factories spread out

and hypertube "track switching" is always a bit hit and miss

[wintry marlin]

then i bring the iron to the turbofuel plant, and iron is probably somewhere closer. but yes, otherwise i upgrade/add another belt if i need more throughput

[cerulean stratus]

is stitched plates more efficient than normal rips?

I don't mind screws

[thorn bane]

yes

[cerulean stratus]

huh

isn't there a downside to it?

with iron wire

[unborn ermine]

ratios

[cerulean stratus]

fair

[vast jungle]

consider use Iron Wire together with Iron Alloy 😄

[grim crane]

from the coast to the middle of the dunes

easier then pipe setups

[cerulean stratus]

i will

[vast jungle]

I was really surprised how well this goes together

[unborn ermine]

just working it in takes more work, but you can at least go above and beyond to match.

[grim crane]

smt its more comfortale to make a huge central water plant and transport it into the dune factory by train

[thorn bane]

nope

[grim crane]

or another place where water is scarce

also cooler

[thorn bane]

also making a blueprint for iron -> iron wire -> RIPs is insane

[cerulean stratus]

im interested

[unborn ermine]

I need to do more BP work

[grim crane]

Fr fr, love trais

[cerulean stratus]

I myself made a bp for copper ore into cable

it fit nicely but it was hard to cleanly stack up

[wintry marlin]

damn, i think my only building actually making that have been in my first hour of play, and never touched again. everything after that is using iron wire

[vast jungle]

hmm... one thing I don't get about transmutation... wasn't it about trading up (making things more valuable)? Why do you make Copper Ore from Sulfur or Quartz?

[wintry marlin]

there is 2 circles in there

[cerulean stratus]

yeah, I only use copper for sheets now

[wintry marlin]

!wikisearch converter

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=converter

[cerulean stratus]

and for mixing for iron alloy

people talk about iron, that it's a trash resource. Hard disagree. Yes, it is everywhere, but it's used everywhere too

[vast jungle]

yeah, but still... pay SAM to convert something scarce into something less scarce?

[wintry marlin]

@vast jungle i assume copper is considered a tier higher than iron, bc they didnt want a copper<>iron loop?

[cerulean stratus]

sam is the scarce thing here lol

[vast jungle]

there is more copper on the map than Sulfur and Quartz together... why is Copper not higher in this diagramm?

[grim crane]

Copper should be a lower tier, littelery the most abundant feeling.

like the way you consume iron vs copper is unreal

[wintry marlin]

mhm, maybe they wanted copper into caterium, and had to make it the same tier for that?

[unborn ermine]

Just a few more arrows and that becomes a biblical reference.

[cerulean stratus]

copper is demanded a bit with copper sheets and copper powder

[grim crane]

wow

[vast jungle]

still, this conversion doesn't make any sense...

[wintry marlin]

they should prob swap copper with sulfur, and then make copper>caterium

[cerulean stratus]

you're right. Use and abuse it

[grim crane]

caterium is weird
the way one node escalates is unreal

[wind spade]

depends what do you mean by "efficient"

[wintry marlin]

maybe bc copper, caterium, and quartz are all considered electronic type items?

[wintry marlin]

does it? it seems better in basically every way

[thorn bane]

well weird ratios but ye

[wind spade]

yes, it very much depends on what you prefer

[grim crane]

mhh

maybe

[cerulean stratus]

uses less machines, less power and less throughput

[wind spade]

e.g. just using RIPs actually is more resource expensive (assuming WIP weighting)

[wintry marlin]

mhm? if we assume only iron as input nothing changes? the only option to change that would be steel screws ig, but idk

[thorn bane]

wait what?

[vast jungle]

if you go for just Iron as Input, Stiched RIP is just superior in any way.... less machines, less power consumption, less resource input for same output

[wintry marlin]

(working under the assumption that iron wire is unlocked)

[wind spade]

tools don't use stitched if only stitched are enabled, meaning it costs more weighted resources
(120 iron -> 10 RIP vs 50 iron + 33.33 copper -> 10 RIP)

[thorn bane]

hes saying with iron wire

[wintry marlin]

87 iron with iron wire

[grim crane]

did anyone calculate how much iron ore there is with mk2 miners in the grass fields?

like 5k?

[vast jungle]

yeah, stiched is only better together with Iron Wire... otherwise it introduces Copper demand

[wind spade]

that's no longer RIP vs SIP

[thorn bane]

stiched with fused wire is actually goated if you have good logistics xD

[glad vigil]

Enough to get you to mk3 miners

[unborn ermine]

this is what happens when greeny pops in

[thorn bane]

"Spaghetto — Today at 2:00 PM
huh
isn't there a downside to it?
with iron wire"

[vast jungle]

if you have enough Caterium... but yes, Caterium is one of those "do not process from Ingot until close to destination" cases

[grim crane]

my idea is to take all my remanining, make it to frames, and sink it

[wind spade]

if you look above, I was replying to a different message

[thorn bane]

i guess i just (correctly) assumed with iron wire
because 99.9% of people assume that

[wintry marlin]

yes, but the person who originally asked also had iron wire, so the assumption was reasonable for that

[wind spade]

I don't assume anything unless specified, because otherwise I could mislead people same as the old recipe analysis from fandom

[thorn bane]

so whats wrong with saying
"yes with iron wire
no without"

[cerulean stratus]

ok it seems normal one is actually more efficient, if you're going steel rods into screws

[wind spade]

what's wrong with saying "depends"?

[glad vigil]

Oh god

[wind spade]

(it could be worth even without iron wire, what if person has excess copper and not enough iron?)

[thorn bane]

wait i didnt read the "just" part
but ye this is just semantics at this point xD

[cerulean stratus]

a lot of these conversations just devolve into semantics

You have to write a legal document to be able to communicate sometimes

[wintry marlin]

especcially if u use the word "depends" u can argue anything

[wind spade]

tbh I'm not really trying to go to semantics, I just want to show people that their opinion is what matters and numbers aren't always as clear as they seem.

classic example being the misleading "cast screws always better"

[cerulean stratus]

"Hey, I'm new, is iron wire a good recipe"
"DEpeNDs"

[hasty nacelle]

Well you always need to specify what kind of resources you have available when you want to discuss what alt recipe's you should use.

[wind spade]

if you use the word "good", you can argue anything

[thorn bane]

but stiched + iron wire is better regardless of that

[magic island]

screw recipes need to be considered in tandem with rod/beam recipes, otherwise saying a particular screw recipe is "more efficient" isn't giving the whole picture

ie, cast screw is a flat space/power upgrade over default rod->screw, but is beaten out resource-wise by alt rod->screw options

[hasty nacelle]

Better if you only have iron available, what if you have copper? Or coal? You can even use rubber.

[wind spade]

every recipe must be considered in context of all other recipes and location limitations, because considering it in vacuum is usually pointless

[thorn bane]

but both only use iron
thats the point

[wind spade]

what if you also have copper that you want to use? then stitched without iron wire is best

[unborn ermine]

This, and was the crux of the convo start iirc

[thorn bane]

sure but that wasnt the question
i also dont use stiched since i have rubber

[wind spade]

I think we're long past answering the original question tbh and was speaking in general

[thorn bane]

well my point i guess is that if someone says their situation that something depends on that then saying "depends" isnt an answer

[unborn ermine]

I always love a good hijacked question sometimes, gets some good back and forth to read

[wind spade]

I was replying to "is stitched always better", without context

context was added later (messages that I either didn't see because long wall of text or were sent later)

with context my reply would be different

[sharp verge]

using trains. do you want one train cart per item transporting or can you mix?

[wind spade]

you can mix but generally not recommended

my personal recommendation would be "one car per belt"

[sharp verge]

aight. will do

[wind spade]

@mental ruin see #math-and-meta message

[thorn bane]

nah man +6 all the way

[wind spade]

inventory space is overrated with depots being a thing 😛

[thorn bane]

hm actually true

[wintry marlin]

nah, i need that shit to transport 2.5k vers wiring to the spave elevator...i had to take 3 trips with cannon for that shit

[vast jungle]

Mixed (or Sushi) Trains have their very special place, but most times its not worth to consider

[wind spade]

or put it in depot and pull it out by hand

[wintry marlin]

takes forever with 60/min upload

[wind spade]

get more upload speed (or more depots) 😛

[verbal lake]

at that point you could have just moved the elevator

[vast jungle]

you could also drive with an explorer, it has additional inventory slots

or with a truck

[wintry marlin]

yeah, last time i went on mercer tour, i ended up automating nobelisks, and getting started on rifles, bc i already had the setup started, so i got interrupted

and now i am working on HMF

[vast jungle]

(driving over a few critters on the way is always a fun distraction)

[mental ruin]

Thanks man

[wintry marlin]

probably, yeah

[cerulean stratus]

has anyone ever tried doing a recycled rubber plastic loop?

[wind spade]

most people use that, yeah

[thorn bane]

im actually still not sure about the best setup
the one i have right now has issues with prioritizing the residual rubber

[cerulean stratus]

there's no priority merger in this game, so I'm guessing the answer is just use a smart splitter and prioritize the recycling

[thorn bane]

there is?
#math-and-meta message

[wind spade]

or have residual rubber go into set of refineries that eat that

[thorn bane]

ye but then you need to math and it isnt expandable
compared to just plopping down a blueprint

[wind spade]

well that's not really a priority merger, rather 1:100000 merger

[urban kite]

does limestone ever become a super important resources? im thinking of just using a ton of limestone nodes in the rocky desert to make basic iron... but its soooo much limestone

[cerulean stratus]

nope, go ahead, use it for other things

[thorn bane]

but thats good enough for the situation since you dont have 100000x the residual rubber than you have recycled rubber

[cerulean stratus]

coal is pretty important though

[thorn bane]

perfect priority mergers are very rarely used
only stuff like prefilling canisters

[main thicket]

is there any way to make a train unload something but not load in a different cart at the same station?

[wind spade]

for sure, just saying that proper priority mergers are not possible

[cerulean stratus]

people talk about copper, but you need coal for coal generators, coal for steel, coal for diamonds, coal for turbofuel

[wind spade]

wdym by that?
DPF should be a 1:1:1 loop anyway

[past reef]

empty platform

[thorn bane]

if you dont direct insert

[wind spade]

many of those can be replaced with coke

[wind spade]

then you've failed in the eyes of ficsit

[thorn bane]

well then you dont need a perfect priority merger
so checkmate

[urban kite]

im not using very much coal yet. The resource im consuming the most of is sulfur lol

nitro rocket fuel my beloved

[wind spade]

well my stance is that you never need one
so yeah, checkmate, but from my side 😛

[thorn bane]

nuclear/fuel
coke steel
oil diamonds
turboblend

[cerulean stratus]

oh wow I only now realized turboblend uses coke and not coal

it does use a lot of oil though

[thorn bane]

sure but TF is capped by sulfur not oil

[cerulean stratus]

if you're using everything on the map, I guess

but things tend to be a lot more local

[urban kite]

im using ~70% of the maps sulfur for RF 🙂

[cerulean stratus]

oh wow how much power do you have

[urban kite]

well

[cerulean stratus]

2gw?

[urban kite]

i have not built all the generators 😭

[cerulean stratus]

Also, you're using ionized on your jetpack right

[urban kite]

no i havent done ionized yet or aluminum so im just using TF jetpack lmao

i wanted to have enough power to not worry about anything for a long time... before i did actual factories

[cerulean stratus]

funny thing is, when you can get rocket fuel for yourself, you can also get the ionized fuel with tickets

[urban kite]

nooooo must save the tickets

[cerulean stratus]

it's so worth it

[urban kite]

eh ive been doing fine with tf and hoverpacks

[cerulean stratus]

Here's a comparison between turbo, rocket and ionized

[urban kite]

i want golden nut

[thorn bane]

no my point is most oil fields are huge and you dont even need mk3 miners for them
like spire cost has >3000/min oil but 900/min sulfur assuming mk2s
but TBF ratio is 1350 oil to 900 sulfur so youre capped by sulfur

[urban kite]

yeah i had to build a massive train loop just to use a little patch of oil

[vast jungle]

you are a bit nuts... or you will be!

[midnight path]

whats that?

[wintry marlin]

there is a recipe for 6 rubber+fuel to 12 plastic, and same in reverse

[wind spade]

essentially converting fuel to plastic or rubber (or mix of both)

[vast jungle]

it doesn't even need to be a loop...

[midnight path]

ty

[vast jungle]

its 30 Plastic + 30 Fuel into 60 Rubber... and 30 Rubber + 30 Fuel into 60 Rubber... (per minute)
Its one of the parts of the most efficient Raw Oil to Plastic/Rubber path

[deep citrus]

Using the recycled recipes, you can get the most efficient oil to plastic or rubber conversion of 1:3

[wintry marlin]

its basically 1 fuel = 1 rubber/plastic right?

[thorn bane]

yes

[deep citrus]

I don't understand

[vast jungle]

plastic/rubber factories are primarily "Fuel factories"... you then start with a bit of Rubber (made from the Fuel byproduct) and convert the produced Fuel step by Step with Rubber/Plastic

lets say you have 30 Rubber to start with...
you add 30 Fuel and get 60 Plastic...
then you add 60 Fuel and get 120 Rubber...
then you add 120 Fuel and get 240 Plastic...

its a combination of "efficient Fuel creation", get a bit of rubber and the two recycling recipes to trade away the Fuel

[shadow sinew]

can anyone recommend a train route to get from spire coast to mid map?

I need to climb that insane cliff

[vast jungle]

you could build a train spiral 😉

but there should be a few ramps close to the Dune Desert to the top... maybe some of them work?

[ashen girder]

What part of mid map?

[wind spade]

train spirals are meh, ramp ftw

[shadow sinew]

the swamp oil is the closest thing I have rail for

[ashen girder]

I mean, there's very straightforward natural paths to both the titan forest and the swamp from the canyon's east end.

[vast jungle]

hmm... at the South end of the swamp there is a ramp going West (and then Turning North)... is this too steep for a train?

[shadow sinew]

there are a lot of radioactive hogs there right?

[ashen girder]

Titan Forest and the Swamp are the most dangerous part of the map, yeah.

But if you're already in the swamp.. 🙃

[ashen girder]

Yeah, there's a very clear natural road here over the waterfall.

[hybrid dove]

Are different colored lines different conveyor types or is it just so the user can see distinguish them better?

[wind spade]

I wouldn't recommend following that graph tbh

[hybrid dove]

Why not?

[wind spade]

it's just horrible

[hybrid dove]

Whats bad about it?

[urban kite]

thoughts on steamed copper sheets? (maybe late to ask after i built 22 refineries)

[wind spade]

basically pure variant for copper sheets

[hybrid dove]

the area I picked out has all the materials needed

[wind spade]

the weird splitter/merger configurations

[hybrid dove]

oh im not worried about that

[tiny leaf]

i have access to 480 crude/min rn for my first crude factory no alts for oil stuff yet how should i split my rubber and plastic?

[urban kite]

i did copper alloy ingot -> steamed sheets hehe

[ashen girder]

Make that copper reeeeally stretch.

[urban kite]

yep

uploading 240/min sheets yay

im turning the entire rocky desert into depot uploaders muwhahahahaha

[shadow sinew]

That´s pretty far away though, I´ll look to see if any of the caves go up, otherwise I might wait for tier 4 and do an airbridge

[vast jungle]

or just built a sloped ramp along the wall that is in your way

[vast jungle]

but if you ignore the merger/splitter combinations, the graph is already overcomplicated

[ashen girder]

I'm still confused where you're trying to get to.

Are you just trying to get up and over the canyon wall?

[shadow sinew]

I could, but I wanna do something somewhat realistic xd

[hybrid dove]

Well do you have a better tool?

[shadow sinew]

I´m trying to connect it to my train network, and the cliff is in the direct path

[vast jungle]

I always use SatisfactoryTools... it gives me the essentials without trying to design a factory for it

[hybrid dove]

I used the satisfactory tools site but I preferred the one I'm using now because it DOES design a factory for it lol

[wintry marlin]

i just saw how 1.0 basically quintuples the max reachable awesome points, fucking crazy...

[hybrid dove]

I already had an idea on how to do it but because theres no way to split specific amounts I didnt feel like doing all the math myself

[ashen girder]

I mean, BWDs do use TPRs in them. 😛

[vast jungle]

thats a fair choice... if you like this, go for it... but if not I find if overcrowded

[urban kite]

i mean surely sloops alone almost doubles it. Im not surprised

[ashen girder]

See, there you go. BWDs double TPRs, and sloops double BWDs.

[wind spade]

not very well, but it does 🤷

[hybrid dove]

oh its def crowded but I dont plan on needing to interact with it when I finih it

When I need to make more project parts I'll just combine this with whatever other things I need to make

[light juniper]

i need to bring in over 5k screws/min with trains but i only have mk4 belts, how would you do this? I need multiple train stations right?

[urban kite]

umm. Hihgly suggest not doing that

I would recommend making the screws locally. If you can produce them from resources locally that would be nice, but you can also use the train to bring over rods, iron ingots, or steel beams (depending on the recipe) and then make the screws from those.

[light juniper]

im committed already :(

[vast jungle]

Just bring over the source material and produce the screws locally... Similar to wire and quick wire

[urban kite]

uncommit yourself

[gusty edge]

You can just make a 4-5 freight train and with it all being screws

[gusty edge]

But that would be better

[past reef]

you can bring over steel beam or aluminum ingot (into rod/beam into screw) depends on space

[vast jungle]

Just look how many screws you can make out of a single steel beam

[wind spade]

make screws in front of machines that need them

[light juniper]

guess i go with the multiple cars option

[vast jungle]

Suddenly it's much easier to train the material because the number of items per minute is lower

[light juniper]

yeah i realize that, just wanted to build a screw factory

[vast jungle]

Then make sure you can deliver two full belts to the train station to keep loading times small 😉

[urban kite]

and remember you wont get two full belts of throughput if you do

[gusty edge]

Yeah I know, that s why I said It s better

[light juniper]

so if i need 5.6k/min i need a 6 car train?

[gusty edge]

With Mk4 belts way more

[wind spade]

for train I'd recommend one car per belt

[light juniper]

why is that?

wouldnt 2 belts be double the throughput?

[wind spade]

train platform can't handle 2 full belts

[gusty edge]

You need to make a buffer before inputing the resources into the train if the belt is full

[light juniper]

wait i built the other factory under the assumption that i can use 2 full belts

[gusty edge]

Which mean you place down a big container with 1 input and 2 outputs in the train

[urban kite]

Because load and unloads lock out the station, you will get slightly less than whatever you are putting in

[light juniper]

first time building with trains tbh

[wind spade]

when train loads/unloads, the platforms get locked for ~27 seconds

[light juniper]

yeah thats why im accounting more ppm than i need

[wind spade]

but if you have 2 full belts, you won't get 2 full belts on the other side

[gusty edge]

Yup, so a 480 input would be reduced to like 440

[vapid gorge]

less

[gusty edge]

I m just guessing

It also depends how much time is between each stock

[gusty summit]

Is using just 1 belt to 1 platform resolves the problem? Creating a buffer for other one input/output

[light juniper]

okay can someone help me with the math then? atm this screw factory can make 6.5k/min (7.2k when i unlock mk5) and i need 5.53k on the other factory

[verbal lake]

lol

[gusty edge]

Yes, just place the big container with 2 outputs to the train

[light juniper]

i built 4 different stations with 2 cars each in the screw factory to help with consistent throughput

[vapid gorge]

jfc, don't train screws

[gusty edge]

First thing, make each station 4 cars, that s the limit a train can carry without losing speed

[vapid gorge]

move the ingots or beams to where you need screws, build screws there

[light juniper]

but i want to

[vapid gorge]

you should be more concerned why you hate yourself

[gusty edge]

Lol

[light juniper]

i can fit in 3 stations with 4 carts i think

[light juniper]

we are well past that

otherwise i wouldnt be playing this game lol

[gusty edge]

It s a sandbox game let him have fun lol

[light juniper]

someone who gets it, i know its not meta but i wanna do it this way

[gusty edge]

The number of carts just need to be the number of belts you have as output

[light juniper]

if it was meta i would be using encased HMF alt instead of this shitty one but screws seems fun

atm i have 14 full mk4 belts

[amber umbra]

Flexing your logistic throughput is always appropriate. Transport the screws as desired.

[gusty edge]

It s like using trucks, there is no point on using them but some people like it

[amber umbra]

Although this thread/chat will definitely comment on it not being ideal, which is fair.

[light juniper]

only issue about this might be the stations might not fit in the screw box

[vapid gorge]

?? there's lots of reasons to using trucks. They have great throughput for little infrastructure. And can use plutonium rods

way more energy and space efficient

[light juniper]

with 3 stations of 4 carts each the max output would be 5.7k right?

considering 1 belt per cart

[wintry marlin]

for trains it always depends on travel distance

[vapid gorge]

you can generally accept 1 belt for car though

[wild lark]

How can i snap it to input?

[gusty edge]

Yeah but not really when trains exist, plus you need to fill it with fuel

[light juniper]

so if i were to use a container buffer to offset the load/unload times i could account for 2 belts per cart?

[gusty edge]

Get the pipe from the machine, place down the junction and then the other pipes

[gusty edge]

1 belt

[vapid gorge]

plutornium rods as fuel , much less infrastructure and power 😛 1 truck can move more than 1 platform

[wild lark]

I can't place junction vertically

[gusty edge]

Well at that point you should have a train infrastructure anyways and energy not being a problem anymore

I m not saying they are useless, but there are better alternatives

[light juniper]

how does that work exactly though, whats the point of having 2 belt inputs then?

[vapid gorge]

should you? you can get away with fuel pretty easily as fuel, don't need to set up long high ways. no signals. easy peasy

[vapid gorge]

because the platforms pause loading/unloading, you can never move 2 belts per platform

[gusty edge]

What I mean is for you to place a normal pipe from the machine up to that point you want to place the junction, snap it to the end of it and then connect the other pipes

[light juniper]

okay but with a buffer wouldnt you be able to fix that?

or minimize it at least

[gusty edge]

Well at least the majority of players, and you need to make a logistics just for the fuel, while trains just need to be connected to power

[cursive heron]

whats the hotkey to show fps, I remember there being one

[heavy gust]

if you are on steam, youcan make steam show FPS for you

ortherwise both nvidia and AMD also have an option for it in their drivers

[gusty edge]

While the package is being loaded the platform doesn t receive any inputs until it s done, so if you have a full belt going in, it can t compensate that time not loading

[light juniper]

of course not yeah

so whats the plan then?

[gusty edge]

I m almost home, I will show you an image

[copper hound]

i've adopted the alternate recipes for steel beams (via aluminum) and steel, um, cylinders (via iron). still worth having a coal input for the aluminum process i would guess but anything else?

[light juniper]

so using multiple trains is definitely a must to have a better throughput right?

[wind spade]

not always

[light juniper]

how so?

[kind cairn]

does this look meta-y?

[wind spade]

more trains means that the station will lock more often

[light juniper]

different train stations

does unloading make the output belts not work?

[worn heath]

any good guides for simple centralized storage without smart filters unlocked?

[reef turtle]

In 1.0? The simplest thing is to just use dimensional uploaders.

[gusty edge]

@light juniper You need a buffer both for input and output

[fickle coral]

Can I ask you, what tool produces these diagrams? Doesn't look like anyone I know of 🙂

[worn heath]

I don't even have those unlocked. Maybe I shouldn't be considering them yet. 😆

[gusty edge]

The best guide is for you to unlock dimensional depo as soon as possible

I got it just after my coal generators

[reef turtle]

They're in the Mercer Sphere tree in the MAM. You can unlock them reasonably early, as long as you find a few spheres.

[worn heath]

I'll take a look. Currently finishing coal generators with ~64 of them.

[light juniper]

yeah, but that halves the calculations i initially made for this since that buffer only has 1 input belt

[gusty edge]

Tbh the hardest part was to find a SAM node, but that s because I didn t want to see it online instead I explored the world

[gusty edge]

Well it s that or your input not being consistent

[light juniper]

kinda unfair how easy to find the crater lake one is

[reef turtle]

I just used the same SAM node I first stumbled across in early access, heh.

[light juniper]

so if i have 14 belts i need 14 train cars total?

[gusty edge]

Yeah

[kind cairn]

satisfactory-planner.vercel.app

[light juniper]

then is it fine to instead of 4 car trains, to add a 5th one despite the train being a bit slower?

[reef turtle]

Longer trains will generally give you higher throughput.

[thorn bane]

fused quickwire

also Quartz Purification but thats lategame

other stuff seems good 👍

[gusty edge]

You can also just make an extra large train like this one

[light juniper]

i cant fit that in the factory sadly

[fickle coral]

Thank you!

[ashen girder]

One locomotive can handle up to 5 loaded cars on a 2m ramp. If you're not using ramps to begin with, it can support a fair bit more.

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Freight_Car#Weight

13 cars if you stick to 1m ramps.

[vapid gorge]

an extremely awkward one

[kind cairn]

you no like?

[urban kite]

is there a list of building materials (by tier hopefully) anywhere? i wanna know what i want to upload

[ashen girder]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Category:Building_materials

[light juniper]

can you do 2 locomotive like in factorio?

[urban kite]

thanks

[ashen girder]

You can, yup. And doubles the number of cars.

[vapid gorge]

I odn't know how you'd tier it

[urban kite]

huh wtf do you build with biomass

[ashen girder]

Plants and animals.

[light juniper]

ok so plan is to make 3 stations of 6 cars each with 2 locomotives

[urban kite]

ohhhh the jelly thing weird

[urban kite]

i would do it by the tier the first building is unlocked in that requires it

[worn heath]

Not nearly as complex as many of the builds I see y'all are up to, but I'm pretty proud of the 64 coal generators setup I just finished. 😎

[vapid gorge]

you could just look at yoru hub then, the milestones would give you 'tiers'

[worn heath]

When assesing raw material inputs like steel how do you decide how much of each output y'all want to design the factory to make?

I'm looking at ~300 steel ingots per minute and having a hard time deciding how many pipes versus beams versus encased beams.

[ashen girder]

I generally plan factories around one or two machines outputting 100%.

Then I just make enough intermediates to get that.

[vapid gorge]

wing it. You can't future proof and even if you try it probably won't fit your future goals

[past reef]

you don't really need more than 20 pipe/beam for buildables and that's including long rail lines later on

[wind spade]

make only what you need now, not what you may need in the future

[urban kite]

stitched plate with iron wire just flat uses less iron and buildings??

[past reef]

iron wire uses more space compared to normal copper or caterium

[urban kite]

sure i was thinking compared to screws for base plate though

[past reef]

but if you're on iron only it does use less iron compared to normal

[thorn bane]

build both and let it balance/overflow

[past reef]

iron wire is super nice for simplifying factories but I don't like placing 20s of iron wire constructor even with a blueprint

usually those iron wire group doesn't fit nicely with the rest of the factory

[urban kite]

currently fighting the part of me that wants numbers to match exactly.

I should make 240 reinforced plates a minute for upload .... surely....

[ashen girder]

Definitely.

[urban kite]

its only 2100 iron

[ashen girder]

What's a biome's worth of iron between friends?

[urban kite]

i have 2400 right here...

[gusty edge]

You sure will need all of that

[urban kite]

its only one pure node 🤷‍♂️

[ashen girder]

You have 2400 iron from one pure node? 🙃

[past reef]

just put down 2 maxed mk3 miner

[urban kite]

and like 4 normal nodes of limestone

[sand furnace]

@wicked cosmos

[urban kite]

yep. I am using all the limestone though

[fierce ruin]

A channel to get help with math homework?

[ashen girder]

Oh, iron ingots.

[urban kite]

yeah

[wicked cosmos]

what in the unholy hell is that

[sand furnace]

VIP recycling water back into the system

[wicked cosmos]

ty

[urban kite]

tools says i only need 112 constructors and 43 assemblers for 240 min. Seems fine 🙂

[sand furnace]

Would two drones carrying compacted coal be enough to reliably fill a turbo fuel power gen factory?

[urban kite]

that depends on the distance the drones have to go and how much TF you want to make

[kind cairn]

https://youtu.be/ZwO-F82sYE4

[ashen girder]

"I don't know how this works." Great news, noone else does either, and it probably doesn't. 🤣

[urban kite]

yeah i watched that too lol

i think i just dont wanna worry about it so if i do have fluid byproducts ill just choose the "split them off into a separate chain annd just dont merge things ever" route

[sand furnace]

The VIP junction has always worked for me.

[ashen girder]

Well, that's good. I have to wonder if a simpler solution would also have worked for you.

[edgy leaf]

i really dont like this video because it seems the person that made it doesnt understand valves iirc

[ashen girder]

Halfway in he literally says he still doesn't understand fluid dynamics in Satisfactory. 😂

[sand furnace]

It's the one where I don't have anything to sink it where im making my aluminum

[edgy leaf]

i understand it

theres an RNG and that generates a number between 0 and 100, if the number is above 90 it works, else it doesnt work

[ashen girder]

Pretty sure it's weighted towards how many buildings you like to build, too.

And the average outdoor air temperature in your area.

[edgy leaf]

yes, and the phase of the moon

and how many goats u sacrificed to mcgalleon in the last month

(it has to be at least 3 or it wont work at all)

[sand furnace]

Divided by the radius solar flares of the sun

[ashen girder]

I thought he gave up his post?

Pretty sure we declared Spaghetto the new wizard of fluid dynamics.

[edgy leaf]

btw tug, i gave up on manifold bottomfeeding the water to my blenders

[kind cairn]

https://youtu.be/Abnc2_pTk9E

[edgy leaf]

now its just 1 extractor to 1 blender directly

[ashen girder]

Pumps weren't helping anymore?

[toxic dove]

i am so confused with building with blueprints
how can i get those platforms lining with the built platforms

[edgy leaf]

maybei didnt add enough but even with a pump it didnt work. couldnt be botthered to fix it so i jsut added two more extractors

[ashen girder]

Hit R.

[edgy leaf]

also use nudge

[ashen girder]

Ah, yeah, that's my life. "Why doesn't this work? slaps on janky ass fix Does now!"

[sand furnace]

It only works for me when I have 1 refinery feeding one pipe versus 2 refineries feeding into 1 pipe to the vip.

[ashen girder]

I may or may not have an industrial buffer I empty every so often for my Aluminum factory.

[edgy leaf]

lmao

btw, how do APMs compare to building more nuclear?

[kind cairn]

default build mode on blueprints will use the blueprint anchor point unless aiming at foundation edges (in which case it uses bluerint object edges). when building a blueprint in designer, anchor point will always be the centerpoint between outer-most object edges horizontally, but will be the bottom of the designer floor (not objects).

sometimes, youll need to build scaffolding to use the default centerpoint, most cases because you have blueprints of different heights.

[edgy leaf]

hm, i guess thats difficult to quantify generally..

[ashen girder]

I saw someone else did some math and said it's better to run 4 APAs at full tilt and pour the rest of the SAM into nuclear?

But yeah, it's a rough problem IMO.

[kind cairn]

is this something you deduced yourself or is there a source for it? i would like to understand fluids better

[ashen girder]

(I'm pretty sure that was a joke.)

(I hope it was, I'd feel like kind of an ass if it wasn't.)

[edgy leaf]

after this message i talked about how u also need to sacrifice 3 goats to mcgalleon, it was a joke

[ashen girder]

mcgalleon Spaghetto. 😛

[orchid pond]

TLDW: just use valves or dont merge

[edgy leaf]

u will not take away my god

[ashen girder]

Your god is an absent god!

[kind cairn]

unpowered pumps > valves

[ashen girder]

He forsakes his own divinity!

[orchid pond]

true actually no configuration required

[edgy leaf]

HERESY. my god is just and all powerful, do not slander his name!

[ashen girder]

Meanwhile, me, "throw a pump on the recycled water and a valve on the fresh water, it's good enough."

[kind cairn]

and they actually work as one way valves

[ashen girder]

Lunch time!

[edgy leaf]

goobie

[orchid pond]

this is valid and has worked so far for me in nuclear and aluminum setups

[edgy leaf]

every time i open my power graph im terrified of seeing it dip

because it means id have to check every facotry to see which one is the problem and then spend hours fixing it

ive unironically considered writing down all the power consumpitons of all the machines in all the factories so i can track down problems easier if they arise

opinions on turbo pressure motor?

[thorn bane]

insane

[edgy leaf]

insanely bad or insanely good?

[thorn bane]

good

it uses a bunch of nitrogen but ive never run into a shortage of it

[livid meteor]

yo gusy why is the pipe past the foundation empty?

below the foundation the pipe is basically full of water

[edgy leaf]

there used to be a bug with floor holes, try reocnnecting both sides to the floor hole or skipping the floor hole entirely and leaving it just as decoration

i heard that the bug is fixed but.. its worth a try

[livid meteor]

that worked

[edgy leaf]

🎉

[livid meteor]

Also is that bad pipe design?

[edgy leaf]

also, look at the outline of the pipe. it extends all the way into the pump. its generally recommended that when placing things directly on pipes/belts that u remove both ends of the pipe/belt and re place them. not sure why but everyone says to do it so i do it too

[livid meteor]

bascially looks like this .

I feel like the blenders on the very end fill too slow

[thorn bane]

is that 600/min in 1 pipe?

[livid meteor]

yea

Total 1200 water

[thorn bane]

ye that doesnt work due to water simulation stuff

[livid meteor]

to feed 12 blenders

[thorn bane]

loop it or use <600

[wind spade]

@granite bane @oak cobalt see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[livid meteor]

if lopping works I go with looping

[thorn bane]

yo greeny when are you making one for 600/min pipes

[wind spade]

#satisfactory message

[edgy leaf]

hmm

[livid meteor]

Man, I hate pipes

[thorn bane]

just treat them as 500/min max and they are fine

[dusky zenith]

Am i the only one who hasnt had issues with 600/m?

[thorn bane]

it only shows in specific situations

[edgy leaf]

oh wow, the turbo pressure motor uses less resources of all the expensive ones except nitrogen, but because it takes so much nitrogen it prefers the electric one.

[thorn bane]

yep
but imo nitrogen is kinda free

[edgy leaf]

i was confused why satistools choose electric as default, it seems to be purely because of nitrogen

[livid meteor]

would this work? The water comes through the floor hole

[prisma kraken]

it depends on how many consumers are on a pipe network and what their cycle times are, sometimes things just work, other times they slosh and there's no way for the pipes to transfer more per second to end up stabilizing

[livid meteor]

other end looks like this

[thorn bane]

ye its less wp since thers not too much nitrogen but other stuff doesnt really use that much
maybe now with rocket fuel but even then i wouldnt think so

[urban kite]

lol

[worn heath]

Is Solid Steel all around better than normal steel ingots?

Makes more steel per minute using less and uses less energy.

[wind spade]

more complexity

[edgy leaf]

yea and i dont want to use rocket fuel at all, i think

[urban kite]

yeah it's two machines instead of one

[edgy leaf]

i always go with solid steel because i love complexity (as long as that complexity isnt due to logistics, i hate logistics)

[worn heath]

Gotcha, but the complexity of iron smelting is pretty straighforward considering 1:1 input/output.

That's a good point tho

[urban kite]

also does it actually use less power?

[worn heath]

🤷‍♂️ The wiki says 16 MJ/item although it is making more than the normal recipe? I you could always underclock and it would be using total less energy.

[edgy leaf]

i hate this 😭

[urban kite]

well the foundry uses 16mw but you have to smelt the iron first. I havent done the actual math but yeah

have to count the smelter power too

[worn heath]

ahhh, I would have though it'd considering the cost of smelting when making it.

[edgy leaf]

why do they not give us more precision on the clock speed...

[deft lichen]

you're looking at the old, unmaintained Fandom wiki

[worn heath]

the spreadsheet is just showing how much the action of making that specific piece. That makes sene.

[brisk shore]

Official Satisfactory Wiki

This is the totally awesome community driven wiki for Satisfactory!! Come on in and check it out!
<3 @deft lichen

[worn heath]

ty

[thorn bane]

just build 3x as much

[edgy leaf]

wdym?

[cerulean stratus]

Here's how you guys make a priority merger
The green is the one with priority

just pin it at this point please

[edgy leaf]

spaghetto, the king of VIP junctions

[thorn bane]

then its 125.0
ez
im kidding

[cerulean stratus]

every time I come here people are still asking for this

[livid meteor]

@wind spade you are a pipe specialist right? Is it possible to syphon the full 1200 fuel/min from this setup? currently output is allways on the top pipe. Bottom pipe is for backup. So I would probably need to connect the upper to lower pipe somehow

[edgy leaf]

right but they'd all have to be clocked at a third of the clock speed...

which is 33.333

[wind spade]

not really pipe specialist, but generally I'd recommend separating setups so that none goes above 600

[livid meteor]

they are basically just blueprints aattached to each other, still not connected

They would hit exactly 600

[thorn bane]

no i mean make 3x as many of what ever your making
PCC?

[livid meteor]

well 1200* sorry

but I got 2 pipes

[edgy leaf]

i want to make 50 fused modular frames, 50 pressure conversion cubes and 50 turbo motors per minute

[livid meteor]

I just feel bad for making more pipes since 2 pipes should be able to support 2x600m³/min

[cerulean stratus]

I had a guy recently try to do the manifolds with the output going up, and it was lowering his throughput

[livid meteor]

What if I put 600m³ in each pipe. Or use pumps after every cross junktion?

[edgy leaf]

oh fuck i think im going to run out of bauxite...?

[urban kite]

converter has entered the chat

[livid meteor]

[leaden depot]

Is there a good chain to make a small amount packaged fuel from oil? I'm struggling to make the ratios work without jamming with (fuel+residual plastic) or (plastic+residual fuel)

[livid meteor]

I know I will suffer in the end and mess up my rocket fuel production

[deft lichen]

default, sink byproduct

[leaden depot]

with default, I have more fuel than plastic I need to package it. Can't sink extra fuel. I guess with plastic / residual fuel I can sink extra plastic

but the fuel yield is way too low there

[deft lichen]

default fuel, residual plastic, default plastic, coke to the sink

that's probably the "easiest" but not the most resource efficient

[leaden depot]

😦 I'm just trying to set up a basic fuel supply for one drone port that is instumental in delivering canisters for the main rocket fuel plant.

I was hoping for a 1or2 refinery solution.

[urban kite]

if it delivers caniseters to the RF plant, why not refuel from that plant?

[leaden depot]

bootstrapping

[livid meteor]

would it help if I put pumps on the outgoing pipes?

[urban kite]

manually load some fuel?

[leaden depot]

not an awful idea. I can prioritize fueling that station. If it breaks I'll have to manually load more canisters. Not end of world I guess

[edgy leaf]

whats the most resource efficeint way of making uranium waste to plutonium rods?

[thorn bane]

does coal work with drones? it should since the change right?

[edgy leaf]

nope it doesnt

[thorn bane]

hard to say
imo default recipes since you want less ficsonium but not sure
more uranium vs more other stuff

[edgy leaf]

ill sink the rods.

[thorn bane]

then yes default so its less plutonium rods
so no instant cells and no plut. unit

[edgy leaf]

oof

[leaden depot]

plutonium fuel unit is much cheaper to add sloops to though.

[thorn bane]

that just means more ficsonium rods though with are just wayyyy to expensive

[leaden depot]

or drone fuel 🙂

[edgy leaf]

ooof my plan doesnt work at all, i added like 4 items of the 33 i want to produce and satistools already has bauxite maxed out

[livid meteor]

this is wird. The pod is empty

[ashen girder]

Yeah, there's one or two like that IIRC.

[edgy leaf]

aHHh im going insane lmao. my plan of making a stack per minute of all buildables is now officially dead

the neural quantum processor has a stack limit of 100 and needs 1 super computer and a bunch of other stuff

so thatd already be 150 super computers per minute id need to make anddd yea i dont think theres enough resources on the map

what should i set my goal to instead?

[ashen girder]

I would start at the max points build and go lower than those numbers. 😛

[edgy leaf]

well the isuse with that is, i still need HMFs for building

or super computers. how many of those should i automate?

i dont really like the idea of a max points build

[thorn bane]

bunch of coupons
as in as many Ballistic Warp Drive as you can

[ashen girder]

I'm not saying from the perspective of maxing points. I'm saying because that factory is likely near the limits of the map anyway.

So if that factory can produce like 25 SupComs/minute, I wouldn't aim for above that. Ya ken?

[edgy leaf]

the max points build is all in on warp drives and u dont need super computers for those..

yknow

[ashen girder]

Well, then what's the issue? Those builds produce more than 200 supcoms/min. 😂

[rigid fox]

Which is better

[ashen girder]

Charcoal is the single largest energy density increase in any recipe in the game.

Biocoal lets you turn your enemies into diamonds.

[rigid fox]

I'm still on steel

[edgy leaf]

the best choice is to leave it htere forever so they dont ever show up again imo

[ashen girder]

Then don't pick either and keep them out of your pool.

[winged fulcrum]

Idk if i can send these here but i though of a Way to have 100% effeciency In my factory

[winged fulcrum]

What do you think about this

[urban kite]

i wonder how long it will take until someone makes a depot unloader mod

[wicked cosmos]

how could I make it so once the recycled water is full (aluminium scrap) it gets put in other machines ?
because i'd like to have some wet concrete if the water to the alumina is full

[ashen girder]

What do you mean?

Digital storage already existed before 1.0. 🤔 What would the mod you're thinking of do?

[urban kite]

depot uploader building but in reverse

[edgy leaf]

VOP junction

[ashen girder]

PowerSuit had an experimental logistics chain that let you use stuff from nearby. And I think the Digital storage mod had something similar?

[wicked cosmos]

in what FICSIT approved planet is a VOP junction

[wicked cosmos]

is this supposed to be it?

[thorn bane]

yep

[ashen girder]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/3/39/Pipeline_Manual.pdf

[edgy leaf]

yes. the pipes fill the lowest parts first so if u make a bump whatever is behind it gets filled last

[urban kite]

hehehe once the manifold fills up ill have 240/min reinforced

[wicked cosmos]

so this should work I assume?

[thorn bane]

yep

[wicked cosmos]

alr, ty

[near yarrow]

What is better?
Oil flows on top. I have a factory on the bottom. Which pipes are best? The possibility is that all fit. 300 oil per minute, and the pipes are tier 1

[fierce ruin]

Quick question is the input for the oil actually 8.4375 or is the 8.438 the (rounded input)

[ashen girder]

What's the clockspeed?

[fierce ruin]

28.125

[ashen girder]

8.4375.

[fierce ruin]

so im guessing the 8.438 is just visual then

[ashen girder]

Yeah, all values get rounded except for clock speed.

[fierce ruin]

got ya just making sure cause it was bugging me lol

[ashen girder]

Yeah, totally fair.

[dusk hull]

hello im new to trains I wanted to transport 1000items/m across 1000-1200m and wanted to know if I would need multiple trains or could just do it with one

[urban kite]

well you can do it with one. Might need more than one car though, that i dont know

[ashen girder]

If you have Mk5 or better belts, one car can do it.

Mk4 I'd do two cars.

[velvet venture]

alright in phase 4. First time dealing with nitrogen and fused modular frames. I am thinking of making a mall for it. Would prolly use fused modular frames and heavy modular frames. Since its gonna be a complex project and all, I had 2 questions.

1. Are fused frames important enought to have a mall for?
2. Besides heavy frames, what other item can I have an output for in the same mall?

[thorn bane]

yes for miners mk3, particle accelerators and converters
dont know if youre making them there as well but cooling systems

[hasty nacelle]

Fused frames are also needed in project parts, directly in the thermal rockets, and indirectly in nuclear pasta.

[lone yacht]

one train one cargo should be enough, 1000-1200m is pretty much short distance

[bleak veldt]

ok lads, fused modular or kms with heat-fused frames?

[velvet venture]

Thanks I am actually looking for answers to what else I can integrate an output for in that same mall.

Currently I have only 4 malls

1>Iron Rods, Iron Plates, Reinforced Plates, Screws, Rotors, Stators, Motors, Modular Frames,

2> Steel Beam, Steel Pipe, Encased Beam, Concrete

3> Wire, Cables, Copper Sheet

4> Alclad Sheets, Alu Casings

[dusk hull]

Alr Thank you

[prisma kraken]

heat fused is a pita to build but saves quite a bit of aluminum

[dusk hull]

Thanks very much

[thorn bane]

ye heat fused is insane

[thorn bane]

as i said, cooling systems

[prisma kraken]

they're all parts you'll need to finish phase 4 and build the phase 5 stuff

out of aluminum, the mall items are: sheets, casings, fmf's, cooling devices, rcu's and then kinda sorta turbomotors

oh, and batteries, but they're an oddball and i'm on the fence as to whether they're even worth making anymore

[thorn bane]

wait why batteries

[prisma kraken]

pre-1.0, i liked having a mall container for them so i could bootstrap a remote drone port

and also just to stick a stack in a vehicle to drive

[ashen girder]

Don't forget turbo motors are used in Mk3 miners. Deeeefinitely want some of those.

[thorn bane]

well and encoders

[prisma kraken]

one thing i'd suggest at your current progression level is to take a look at the supercomputer and turbomotor alts and figure out which ones you want to use, the ingredient lists for the various recipes vary quite significantly and it may make sense to do supercomputers with cooling devices & rcu's for instance

[prisma kraken]

'and kinda sorta turbomotors'

[thorn bane]

oh nononono

[ashen girder]

And particle accelerators.

You need a lot of them, actually. 🤣

And TPRs for your BWDs..

[prisma kraken]

and TPS for your ADA