math-and-meta

[vapid gorge]

so lets say you're trying to valve 120 pm to a section of machines that need 120 if hte pipe isn't full, you won't get the 120

if hte pipe IS full you'll get the right flow as long as it's consistent - the issue is pipes work off average flow and if you drop below a full pipe it'll not output the 120

now - the reason I say valves don't do anything is because there's something else that will control the 120 fluid per min you want

And thats the machines consuming 120 pm

[long lance]

It resets the pressure of course it won't be outputting the correct measurement, making exacts is hard when the math isn't properly doing things, no full pressure behind the valve causes issues and isn't hard to do.

[vapid gorge]

Sure - but the machines using 120 fluid pm will also control how much flows down the pipe

you're basically setting up a middle man machine telling other machines 'hey use this amount' and they are confused cause yes ofc they are going to use that

and the downside to that middle man is that if the situation isn't always perfect they'll send the wrong flow down

that's why the short description of valves is 'don't use valves, they either do nothing or break things.'

[long lance]

It's literally a preference to use some buildings that aren't required, of course people are going to assume things don't properly. Remember this is still Early Access where there are issues and things are not 100% because the game is still being tweaked, but some people prefer to not tamper with things.

[vapid gorge]

ok but you can't argue that they do something then.

[long lance]

They do something already, there are two charts above

[vapid gorge]

ok so say you valve off 120 fluid pm down a pipe to machines that use 120 fluid pm right?

yes?

[ivory warren]

@vapid gorge welp

[vapid gorge]

ok a number of them are red - which means they are shut down or not connected to the grid

did you flood the system?

[ivory warren]

I filled all of them to 50 then let it run

didn't take long to slump

the blenders ride at 600 for a minute or two then drop to 0 for a second & reset to 600 again

[vapid gorge]

check the red light ones are they ever burning? cause red suggests they aren't part of the grid I'm pretty sure

open the control panel

[ivory warren]

they flip on & off

red means fully out of fuel, yellow typically means manually disabled or partially filled

[vapid gorge]

how about this, build your hub nearby and send me your save, I'll have a quick squeeze

[wind spade]

red means:

• Building is not connected to a Power Line
• Production building has no recipe configured
• Building other than a power generator has no power supply
  • The grid it is connected to is either has no operating power generators or is tripped
• Power generator is out of fuel or Water

so yeah, red should be solved before you start solving issues with flow

[ivory warren]

red, in this case, is an issue with flow

[wind spade]

it's not

[ivory warren]

except yes it is

[wind spade]

red means you don't have power or recipe

[vapid gorge]

they said they sometimes get fuel?

[ivory warren]

no, it means the genny is fully out of fuel

[wind spade]

I thought we're talking about blenders?

[vapid gorge]

build your hub near your station and DM me your save, I can have a look

[vapid gorge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/1257947775929417769/pipes2.png?ex=668642a9&is=6684f129&hm=46ab25552ab9938177dedf37a2e3d6d7326618bf2bf30164526ba062bc23be54&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1609&height=905

[ivory warren]

working on it

[wind spade]

will be nice day when my phone decides to actually load the image 🙂

[vapid gorge]

basically jsut lines of fuel gens some with green lights , some red

[vapid gorge]

@drowsy hemlock what are you doing?

[drowsy hemlock]

I'm currently trying to make reinforced iron plates and rotors so I can make smart plates for the elevator

[vapid gorge]

cool cool and?

[vapid gorge]

what is the brain tickling thing?

[drowsy hemlock]

Trying to figure out how to make it quick enough that I'm not waiting on materials

[vapid gorge]

are you making rips and rotors already?

[drowsy hemlock]

That's the part I'm trying to figure out

[vapid gorge]

is this a shrodingers rotor factory where you dont' know if you're making them or not?

[vapid gorge]

do you have containers with rotors and RIPs stored?

[vapid gorge]

anyway - have 1 container with rips, 1 with rotors, connect them to an assembler or two

[topaz jetty]

This sounds like a just make em thing and not a automated production line

And I do not think you need to do that for Smart plating… you will need to get lots of it later anyway so why bother doing it temporarily early, get it stockpiled so you can cheese the later stuff

Though I only think control units are worth cheesing at least for P3 since they are a pain

[vapid gorge]

So? Do it again later - you know, when you have automated power and much higher throughput

[topaz jetty]

Yeah fair the power is the big point

I did do that though and later expanded the system when I got automated power

My starter one had terrible throughput but enough for P1

[wind spade]

because later you'll need different amounts 🙂

[topaz jetty]

You miss the rest of that sentence “so you can cheese the later stuff” amounts don’t matter if you do that just need a lot of it

[wind spade]

I did not. Storing is meh, sinking is the way

[covert yew]

i need to convert a line of 480 a min to a line of 150 a min and a line of 330 a min pls help

[wind spade]

one splitter 🙂

[covert yew]

wdym

[wind spade]

one splitter will split it to 240/240
what happens if you send 240 to something that only needs 150?

[covert yew]

it will over flow

[wind spade]

yeah, and when it overflows, the rest will go to other side, providing 330

[covert yew]

OOOOH sorry im dumb af

[wind spade]

other options are:

• do not merge to 480, instead have two groups of machines, one making 150, one making 330
• balance it so that it actually splits to 150/330 (tons of splitters and mergers)

[covert yew]

may be

did the first one+

[vapid estuary]

is anyone aware of a planner that can minimize power, rather than items of input?

using power as a metric minimizes buildings and would drive automatically not using, say, the Pure recipes and preferring the computer recipe in an assembler

[wind spade]

beta version of Tools could do that, but it's outdated and buggy

and you can disable recipes you don't want to use 🙂

[vapid estuary]

yayaya, but i really want to minimize buildings; a friend is playing this building game but doesn't like building at scale

i'll put together a max-output recipe collection and see how that goes

they also hate power plants. 🤷

[fringe pawn]

Depending on how much they also hate exploring, you could run off of geysers only?

I got a gold cup sticking to coal power recently, so it's totally possible to finish the game with minimal setups.

1.0 will make that even easier. Did they say 250 per fuel gen, which is 625 overclocked?

[wind spade]

yeah, but you still need same amount of fuel

[fringe pawn]

Kind of a random change in my opinion.

[wind spade]

reduces fuel gen spam without affecting balance

I actually predicted it 😄

#1184600832881201182 message here 🙂 (section 2A)

[fringe pawn]

Right, it's a space efficiency boost. Those numbers do work out nicely if you put everything at 250%. 12500 per 20 generators.

I definitely agree coal should come earlier. In my first play, I remember thinking something along the lines of 'what the heck is this survival game nonsense where I'm still chopping down trees?'

If I wanted to chop down more trees I would switch to playing valheim

I don't necessarily care how nuclear power comes out. But the waste issue is weird because it stands out as being one of the only things in Satisfactory that's significantly worse than the real technology. Whereas almost everything else works way better than in real life.

I think 3 or even 4 stage nuclear power could be fun even if there's no use for all that power.

With increasingly powerful nuclear nobelisks depending on the level of waste used.

[fringe pawn]

Based on your other comments in that post, I wouldn't be opposed to power plants of all types straight up having recipe options. Including waterless coal burning, breeder nuclear that goes straight to high level waste while being very power inefficient, and turbo fuel, biofuel and so forth being different recipes in the fuel generator that just make them.... Different, for lack of a better term.

[wind spade]

would be problematic to change how the game works that way

[fringe pawn]

In what way, beyond probably breaking all factories?

[wind spade]

in the way how gens are coded

I'm talking about programming changes, not breaking saves

[fringe pawn]

Right, you'd be rebuilding them from scratch in the code

[wind spade]

they'd have to basically redo power completely

[fringe pawn]

My admittedly non-expert hope is that they would just make it use much of the same code as any other machine. But instead of outputting parts, it's outputting power.

[wind spade]

The problem is that power is outputted continuously every tick

Or even more correctly - a gen checks every tick if the fuel inside has enough energy and converts that energy into power

[fringe pawn]

This does remind me that I'm a little sad that there's pretty much no way for me to prepare for 1.0 on an existing save. Unless you're going to use all default recipes I guess? But diluted fuel is just so good, and who knows whether that or turbo fuel are going to change. And then nuclear will certainly have unpredictable changes, due to the number of parts involved.

[wind spade]

This is also why "recipes" for power do not exist

[wind spade]

Preparation is pointless anyway. You don't know all the changes and recommended is to start anew

[fringe pawn]

Preparing only power would be nice.

I will say once 1.0 hits, I hope they never change recipes ever again

If things are imperfect, let them be imperfect, unless an alt recipe is so bad, it is never used or something like that.

[wind spade]

Starting anew enables story to be experienced 🙂

[fringe pawn]

Oh I was definitely going to do it for that reason anyway. My own personal plan would have been to make a new save to experience the story, then go back to an endgame save with a power grid in place.

And of course there's no substitute for experiencing the new pacing that's going to be in play

For instance, changing where you access fuel generators is probably a bigger change than how much each one can output.

[frosty owl]

I used to hope they would change nuclear silarly to how they changed Diluted Fuel when Packagers where introduced (refineries could keel using the old recipes until a new one was selected), just so that I could keep running my Sushi Fuel Rods save

[frosty owl]

Pacing before Zoop VS pacing after Zoop...

[fringe pawn]

Yep, I built my mega factory in U4.

Basically using the exact spot that they nerfed, the border of Northern Forest and Rocky desert.

[frosty owl]

I think that was an understandable nerf 😆

[fringe pawn]

So I had already come to terms with that save breaking

Agreed

[true ledge]

how do i organize well the inside of my factories?

i’m at the point in the game where i should really start making a place with all my machines and i need to know the core basics to making a factory efficient

[calm mauve]

i would start with deciding what you want to build. like 10 heavy modular frames. Pump that into https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production to see what is needed then start laying it out in game. That will give you an efficient factory

working backwards from the goal

[true ledge]

thank you very much

i had a feeling a tool like that existed but i wasn’t sure

[carmine iron]

Finally, my 120 iodine filter, per minute done 😂 I hope 1.0 don’t mess up everything

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_HazmatFilter_C"%3A"120"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_PureCateriumIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_SloppyAlumina_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PolyesterFabric_C"]}

Everything done with blueprints the worst part was logistic with train😂

[true ledge]

what are good ways to move parts long distances. i’ve currently done all of tiers 1, 2 and 3

and how i should make it so conveyors in my factories don’t look like spaghetti

[vapid gorge]

planning mostly - you can use vehicles if you don't like long belts

later in the game with more alt recipes it's better to design factories that largely do high tier parts on one location, imo

[true ledge]

do you have access to any other vehicle than the tractor where i’m at?

[vapid gorge]

you get e xploere , truck train drones as you go

[true ledge]

but do i access to any of those currently?

or are they in tiers 5+

[fringe pawn]

Long belts are viable for 100% of the game if you want.

It's all style choices, once you understand your options.

[vapid gorge]

look at milestones or wiki

trucks are soon and nto that dif to tractros

[hallow umbra]

is it worth building a whole new production line from scratch for everything, e.g steel factory with ore inputs, or should i steal items from my other factories so i dont have to find new nodes all the time

[wind spade]

generally I recommend to always build from scratch

see also https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Independency

however you can do whatever you want 🙂

[hallow umbra]

i didnt really like the idea of spagetting all my factories together lol

thanks anyway

[wind spade]

well if you always build from scratch, you don't spaghetti factories together at all 😛

[hallow umbra]

i havent so far ...

[true ledge]

for coal power, would it be better to set them up near my base where it might be a bit cluttered but it’ll be close, or set them up near an ocean and use the big power towers to bring the power to my base

[oblique hollow]

set up coal power near water, transport the power back to where its needed with cables

there is no benefit in having them close to your base

[main dragon]

I generally produce raw materials in large quantities ! So I won't have to make iron plates or iron rods again for my 1000 motors factory lol !!

For example:- I produce 20k Concrete all together !
It would suffice my needs for Encased beams and even nuclear power production !

And as suggested by @wind spade it ultimately boils down "TO YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCES" !!

[hallow umbra]

that is also an option but i dont really have the patience to set up and wait for that. i also like to know that everything is self sufficient and that i never need to touch it again

once again personal prefrences

[fringe pawn]

How do you move that concrete elsewhere when you need to build HMFs or whatever?

[gray violet]

Very long trains

[scenic elm]

am i stupid or something but i just cant think of a reason why any other method of transporting items (vehichles, trains, drones) would be better than just using belts. if anyone has a reason why they would be better please tell me because i just cant figure out why so many people use them

[thorn bane]

ye they are not great
theyre fun to build and look cool but nothing beats belts, resources wise

[wind spade]

it's a choice you make

• trucks don't require infrastructure, but need a bit of fuel, can handle two belts per station
• trains require infrastructure, but it also carries power, need power to run, can handle 1+ belts per platform (one train can handle any number of cars)
• drones require no infrastructure, but need batteries and can handle any terrain (they just fly over)

[brittle terrace]

Trains theoretically have infinite throughput

[wind spade]

all of the modes theoretically have. Same as you can build as many belts as you want

[scenic elm]

if it doesnt matter then that gives me an exuse to not automate batteries and thats a win

[wind spade]

batteries are great fuel for vehicles btw 🙂

[brittle terrace]

I actually didn’t know you could use batteries as fuel, I have always done packaged turbo

[wind spade]

batteries have three times more energy capacity

[true junco]

Best fuel is plutonium fuel rods.

[versed violet]

Agreed. One stack will last for 200+ hours and leaves no plutonium waste

[fringe pawn]

Fuel gens will burn 7.5ppm turbofuel for 250MW? That'll work very nicely for the turbo blend fuel recipe.

WHo knows whether alts will stay the same though.

Looks like that aligns easily with all turbfuel recipes.

[gray violet]

so this pipeline has 480 water coming out, i want to put valves at 3 ends, having 135, 129, 216 at the respective colors

will this work? or do i need to have the water all coming out the same way

making a 24 fused frame factory

[wind spade]

the general recommendation is to not use valves

just let the whole system fill and it'll distribute the fluid itself

[gray violet]

oh? i wont even need valves? just let it work out itself as long the math is right?

[wind spade]

basically you should never use valves and never use buffers (for buffers there's one exception - train platform buffering)

both of those do nothing in best case and hurt your setup in any other case

[gray violet]

that brings another question, why avoid valves? its jus buggy?

[wind spade]

obviously you can use them if you want (or know what they do), but many people come here with fluid issues and the fix is pretty much always "remove valves"

[river night]

the thing that people want to use valves for, typically, is just not how the fluid simulation works

[true ledge]

is this a good enough design for a coal plant?

[gray violet]

makes sense, just more manifold stuff

[vapid gorge]

a more detailed explanation - valves only really let through the right amount with a flooded system - if it's not full it acts real weird
if it is flooded then that X fluid pm you're sending to machines to use X fluid pm? well the machines will also force only that much through the pipes as that's all they consume

so if you have a system that works with a valve? it'll work w/o the valve

[wind spade]

well, first of all, the number you set in the valve is not necessarily the one that the game uses. Due to how it is saved, valve only has 255 possible values, so increments of ~2.35. If your number does not fit into those increments, it can be off (e.g. 135 is impossible, you either get 134.1 or 136.5) (edit: this has been most likely fixed in 1.0)

another thing is that valve basically works like percentage gauge. If you have a mk2 pipe with 200 fluid and set valve to 200, it will only let through 66.66, until the part before the valve fills up to max. Combine that with the fact that pipes in general want to be prefilled to work best (full pipes are happy pipes), the valve suddenly loses purpose, given that the pipes on both ends are full

and finally, the valve is sometimes used by people to "prevent backflow". While it does prevent backflow from one end of valve to another, it does not prevent backflow in any other pipe sections around it. And due to how fluids work similarly to IRL fluids, it can happen that backflow is all around the valve (see the image below the text - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553550313533997057/1258923141032574986/image.png?ex=6689cf0a&is=66887d8a&hm=5472cdc82a50346baf2c49c508361af964c591470a84ec34a81b01720da955f6& ). Looping a pipe is much better way of making sure that backflow doesn't do bad things to your system

in the end, apart from the 255 possible values limitation, (see above) valves don't really have any "bug" with them (and even the limitation is not really a bug imo), but the way the fluid system works, they are not necessary and usually bring more issues

[river night]

if for some bizarre reason you want a system where you have a limited amount of liquid and want to starve the machines equally, for reasons, maybe valves could somehow do that? but... just clock them to consume the rates you want them to consume

[vapid gorge]

exactly

Like, I'm open to people finding a proper use other than 'cause I wanna', but haven't come across it yet

[gray violet]

dark blue is fresh water, light water is byproduct water, im having some of it feed back into the alum soln, and the rest being fed into different prod lines, the math adds up for everything, but does this setup work? should i let it flood or empty everything out before i have everything going

[vapid gorge]

if you're trying for a VIP you need to link the Waste Water to the Fresh with a VIP junction. You're just direct feeding now which isn't impossible but I don't recommend it

[wind spade]

if you want to solve aluminum byproduct water, there's several options:

• separate fresh and recycled water
• use byproduct water for some other recipe that needs water (e.g. in a nearby factory for pure ingots or wet concrete)
• use byproduct water for power generation (coal, nuclear)
• use a VIP junction to prioritise recycled water over fresh water (see pipeline manual in #welcome )

[vapid gorge]

example of seperate waste and fresh set ups

My preferred method as it's basically unbreakable and doesn't rely on black magic

[wind spade]

I need to save this somehow, I'm not writing it again when another person asks about valves lol 😄

[vapid gorge]

just remember 'solve aluminum' as a search?

[wind spade]

no I mean the 4 paragraphs above that

[fringe pawn]

Is it not in McG's pipes guide?

[wind spade]

I feel like it doesn't mention that at all

it shows how valves work, but doesn't mention they are pointless

[gray violet]

alright, so all i need to do is make sure i have a VIP junction for recycling water? i can have the rest w/ no valves or any special stuff? (going into other prod lines)

[vapid gorge]

set up in exactly thy way the manual shows - also hope updates don't break teh black magic that makes it work

or just create a seperate system like in the diagram

[gray violet]

i got blueprints for VIP junctions so it should b good

as for updates, im restarting anyways

[calm mauve]

@gray violet fluid below is used before fluid above. #screenshots message

[gray violet]

making a goal of 40/40/10/10 space parts before 1.0

[vapid gorge]

I'm honestly baffled at people wanting to use a weird junction that works on unknown principals over a fullproof set up that just requires the most minimal clocking

[old plover]

well idk if valve number limitation isn't a bug or is but I did really feel let down when I realized they didn't work as straightforward as they were advertised

[wind spade]

hence why I put it at the bottom of my list of possible solutions

[wind spade]

the problem is that even if the numbers worked perfectly, rest of my message would still apply and valves would still not be useful

[vapid gorge]

the last thing people read might make it stick in their mind more xD

[long lance]

Perfect as long as there are plenty of filters laying around

[vapid gorge]

what greeny said - you still limit the flow by having the machines consume that amount.

maybe if clocking didn't exist?

but then you'd have a slew of other issues

across the board

[old plover]

no yea I know, but in a patchnote or a feature video of the update introducing valves they said something like "you'll be able to set the flow to whatever throughput you want" and that was it, I immediatly thought "wow recycling will be so much easier"

[wind spade]

yeah unfortunately people don't realise how the valves really work and that full pipes work better than exact pipes

[vapid gorge]

Oh you can set it - but it doesn't prevent back flow

but that's part of the 'realise how pipes and flow works' issue greeny points out

[gray violet]

maybe theyll change fluid mechanics for 1.0, gotta ask that next dev stream

[wind spade]

I doubt they'll change them much

[vapid gorge]

Unlikely, they work like a bidirectional fluid should yeah

[wind spade]

there may be some small fixes here and there, but in general they are at a point where they are satisfied with it and has no big bugs (even the mk2 pipe bug isn't a bug)

[vapid gorge]

floor holes fix would be good 😄

[wind spade]

oh yeah floor holes in general need fixing

[vapid gorge]

but that's not really a fluid mechanic

[river night]

do wall holes work fine?

[wind spade]

afaik yes

[river night]

you would think its the same functionality

[wind spade]

iirc even belts sometimes have issues with floor holes

[vapid gorge]

I think floor holes were introduced later?

and they do a weird thing where they are a variable length obj depending on the thickness of hte foundation.

[old plover]

yea but they are two completely different assets, and floor holes have versitality as in their thickness change depending on the foundation

[vapid gorge]

but asfaik aren't pipes inside the foundation

[old plover]

there's also a weird bug where when you build a pipe close to a floor hole connected on one side, the game will think that pipe is connected to the hole. You won't be able to snap anything on the unconnected side of the hole, and when dismantling the floor hole you'll also dismantle the pipe next to it (that normally has nothing to do with it)

(idk if my description is intellegible)

[vapid gorge]

I have never heard of or seen anything remotely like this xD single player no mods?

[old plover]

yes single player no mods

[vapid gorge]

wild

you sure it wasn't part of the bug where part of hte pipes are invisible and you'd actually jsut accidentally connected it to the floor hole?

[old plover]

no the pipe I did not want to connect to floor hole was properly connected to a support

trying to recreate it. It happened in a setup I repeated 8 times and regularly encountered the issue

[vapid gorge]

that is super weird - if you can recreate it do a full bug report with the save

[true junco]

It has the same bug but apparently occurs much less often. As far as i know, only to me. 😆

[vapid gorge]

huh, interesting. I guess people might also just notice it a lot less often too

[agile carbon]

whats up greeny

[wind spade]

sky

[old plover]

ah here we go

[vapid gorge]

deeeefinitely send teh save with the hub near the location

[old plover]

and yea I can build from the pipe ceiling support, but not to the floor hole

OOOOH THATS FUCKING INTERESTING

the bug happens only if I snap the pipe but not build, then build next to it

[vapid gorge]

snap it?

[old plover]

yea like I'm in build mode with the pipe, snap it to the floor hole but not click, then move a bit and build it somewhere else not related to the floor hole (like in the screenshot)

[vapid gorge]

oh.. so it .. kinda stays snaped once you move away?

[old plover]

yea

[vapid gorge]

truly worth a bug report

[old plover]

but not if you end up building far away, I'll do more testing as for the distance and maybe try out with prefilled pipes etc...

proper bug reports are still on https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/ ?

[vapid gorge]

I believe so

[gray violet]

a manifold like this wont cause any problems right? or is a smart splitter required

[calm mauve]

just takes time to fill

as long as the supply is => then the demand you will be fine in the long run

[gray violet]

yea im just letting stuff fill up as i build this beast

[vapid gorge]

well often times when feeding with fluid you want to loop your manifold and flood it

don't need it allll the time but quite often

[gray violet]

already looped it, was just asking about the item manifold

[vapid gorge]

oh item manifolds are fine

that doesn't look looped?

[gray violet]

old ss

[vapid gorge]

ah

[gentle dune]

Hi im completely new to Satisfactory, can somebody explain to me why it says "24units/min" when every smelter does 30units/min?? My brain says 6 smelters for 3 iron mines (each 60 units/min) so 3x60=180 and 180/30=6. so why does it say i need 8 smelters?? help

[vapid gorge]

what's your production goal?

[gentle dune]

producing modular frames

[vapid gorge]

how many

[gentle dune]

endless heck i dont know how many i will need haha

[vapid gorge]

per min...

[gentle dune]

I dont know honestly i just feel stupid with this game

[vapid gorge]

what does your planner say it's making per min from it

[gentle dune]

One

[vapid gorge]

you must be reading it wrong because 1 mod frame pm doesn't need 180 ore pm

[gentle dune]

i may be using the tool incorrectly lol

[vapid gorge]

click the outputs tab

[gentle dune]

i put the modular frame as output and my 180 units of iron ore as input

so i have to swap it?

[vapid gorge]

if you click on the tab that says output what does it say? or drag the planner to show how many mod frames per min it's doing

either in that tab, or drag the planner screen to show the rest

[gentle dune]

sorry

[vapid gorge]

right this is why I hate this planner

[gentle dune]

u know a better one?

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=5ILglTeUGnST1mfDR42p

[gentle dune]

tysm!!

[vapid gorge]

ok the reason why it says 24 ore at the start for your 1 mod frame pm is that in total, you only need 24 iron ore to do the plan

[vapid gorge]

it doesn't matter that a recipe is a 30 ore pm cycle because you can control the clocking of machiens

you notice that is requires 0.8 smelters on the first step right? can you build 0.8 of a machine?

[gentle dune]

no

[vapid gorge]

right so you need one working at 80%

[gentle dune]

ahhhhhh

it all makes sense now

[vapid gorge]

if you had a plan that said 2x smelters for example you would need any combination of smelters working to 200% total

[gentle dune]

yess i get it now

appreciate the help

[vapid gorge]

as a general tip - research MAM stuff asap and pay attention to menu keybinds under your reticule when building - it gives you lots of options

no stress 😄

[gentle dune]

havent built that thing yet im all out on making ineffective and inefficient mega structures. its my first playthorugh yet but i will keep that in mind for my next one cuz i dont think i wanna keep this one for long becasue its becoming a huge mess

[vapid gorge]

everyone learns differently. I restarted at tiers 3 ,5 and 7. Gave myself fresh starts. Not good for everyone though.
Mostly don't stress about making things perfect - realising after you finish something you could have done 10 things better is normal, just keep going forward

[fringe pawn]

You won't be perfect thousands of gameplay hours later

[gentle dune]

so hard not to get OCD in this game but i think ure right, i will keep it for a bit theres no perfect factory anyways (or is there?)

[fringe pawn]

Your idea of perfect might hit the object limit, who knows!

That was mostly sarcasm. The object limit would only be a concern if you wanted to use absolutely every resource on the planet

[gentle dune]

and how many hours would that approximately take?

[vapid gorge]

depends you could copy past blueprints with lots of objects in it

object limit only ever becomes an issue for a handful of players tbh

[gentle dune]

Can i create my own blueprints in the vanilla version?

[fringe pawn]

I don't really have any great concept of what it takes to get to the object limit

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure what you mean? blueprint machine is in base game

[gentle dune]

oh theres a machine for it lol, im yet to uncover that thanks

i thought it was like an overlay thing

[vapid gorge]

nope, just a thing

[gray violet]

do i need to loop gases for manifold setups?

[wind spade]

loop usually helps 🤷‍♂️

idk how it works with gasses, but I'd just loop always and be done with it 🙂

[true ledge]

should this be enough to last me until i get the next form of energy

[river night]

wouldnt last me, but if you try to be efficient and go straight there .. maybe?

[thorn bane]

probably wanna double that

[true ledge]

i have the necessary things to double it so i might try

i’ll just have to unlock mk2 miners

[thorny iron]

They should add lcm() and gcd() in the little search field calculator

[wind spade]

what for? 🤔

[thorny iron]

Finding the least common multiple fast and easy for more efficient factory building

[wind spade]

efficiency is "clock machines to match" 🙂

[thorny iron]

If I want to produce computers which need 105 Quickwire and one Assembler produces 90 it's good to know that the lcm would be 630

[balmy shell]

Or just do a 2:3 then

[wind spade]

eh, you should start from how much you want to make, work backwards to see how many ores you need, build that and clock machines if needed

limiting yourself to only numbers that are lcm is weird

[thorny iron]

Why? Clean numbers look good and I plan my buildings on how much I want to build

[balmy shell]

I see how it could be useful , but not that practical for everything u place

[wind spade]

clean numbers are much easier achievable with clocking

[thorny iron]

Clean numbers on the clockspeed

[wind spade]

why would I want that? clockspeed is made to be used

[thorny iron]

Yes true but what's the harm? Isn't 100% clock speed best? Less power than overclock more space efficient than underclocked

[wind spade]

no it's not

depends what you mean by "best"

[thorny iron]

What I just said

[wind spade]

if best = most space efficient, then best is 250%
if best = most power efficient, then best is 1%

[thorny iron]

And 100% is best balance because in either direction something goes like exponentially worse (I think)

[wind spade]

in both directions both things go exponentially

100% is arbitrary point on both exponential graphs

there's nothing "best" about it

[true junco]

An arbitrary definition of "best" is called a "preference". 😆

[wind spade]

obviously you can prefer whatever you want, but there's no "best" really

[thorny iron]

So I should plan phase 4 first?

[wind spade]

no

figure out next product you need (e.g. computers)
decide how much you want
build that much
repeat

[thorny iron]

"Decide how much you want" -> I use lcm

[true junco]

You can if you want to. You could just decide what you need for phase 4. And start building the entire phase 4 factory from the start. All intermediate products as you go will allow you to build the rest.

[wind spade]

that's weird way to decide

most things are fine being one or two buildings worth of production

[thorny iron]

Probably

[wind spade]

for that lcm rarely works

[thorny iron]

But huge factories are nice

[wind spade]

you'll have those anyway

lategame items need big production lines

[thorny iron]

Yes but i would make FMF out of the HMF I already built and not create them from scratch

[wind spade]

that's your choice 🤷‍♂️

[thorny iron]

So more spread out factories each creating a item used for late game

[wind spade]

but that often leads to tons of logistical issues

see https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Independency

[thorny iron]

Probably requires train network

[wind spade]

nothing really requires trains tbh

[true junco]

All late game stuff requires a logistic network. Nowhere on the map has every single resource. But a logistic network doesnt have to be trains. Personally i like trains tho.

[thorny iron]

Yeah I think they look cool but laying down rails can be tedious

[true junco]

Laying down dozens or hundreds of long belts is also tedious. More so imo.

[thorny iron]

I think a single "megafactory" has more drawbacks because resources need to be transported in high raw quantities and oil,bauxite,nitrogen is probably not near

[thorny iron]

That's why I have many factories spread out using only local stuff

[true junco]

Mega factory has the problem of bogging down the player’s computer. Lol

[thorny iron]

That also

[hallow umbra]

how do i split the iron ingots into those exact values? or should i use a different throughput

[wind spade]

single splitter 🙂

you can also build two groups of machines that each make the exact amount

[hallow umbra]

how so

[wind spade]

what happens if you send more items to a side that needs less? 🙂

[hallow umbra]

oh i see

so combine all the smelters into 1 line?

[wind spade]

see also https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Manifold

[wind spade]

either that, or build two groups of smelters, each making the required amount (one group making 52.5, one making 67.5)

[hallow umbra]

ill go for the manifold method

thanks

[frosty pawn]

if your iron plates are made somewhere else from your iron rods, you can put the smelters in a line and make the manifold output split somewhere near the middle

[vocal star]

Some people also call this the overflow method (bc you are over filling one machiene so it goes to the next)

[royal yacht]

it's basically communally named manifold

[vocal star]

Ik (i learned it from the youtuber "imkibitz") hes how i found satisfactory

[royal yacht]

75x10^3 because mega - kilo
/60 because per second vs other stuff being in per minute
4.18 is constant
80 for a guesstimate at the average temperature probably being in the realm of 20, with less inefficiency if the temperature is higher I guess

Doesn’t really give us the mass of coal but we can then guesstimate that from average carbon-based combustion

But at least the water is maybe probably accurate, which I doubt is intentional somehow

[jagged warren]

one item of coal should weight 35kg

[frosty pawn]

it doesnt look like 35kg. i know because bbq.

[royal yacht]

Also the maths on nuclear doesn’t work out because according to this we would need to provide about 1300m^3 of water per minute but then again it’s 3am I’m probably wrong

[jagged warren]

i calculated it assuming the coal powerplant burns it with a 35% efficiency and using the average real life energy density of coal at 24 MJ/kg

[royal yacht]

Based on my maths the water part is anywhere from 70-95% efficient if that affects anything

[jagged warren]

not really

[thorn bane]

did you just
take a picture of a real life calculator?
i am impressed (but not in a good way)

[jagged warren]

yeah, you shouldve screenshotted using your calculator instead

[jovial wyvern]

I still use a calculator I got back in 1986 because it has a lot of physical constants built in.

[jovial wyvern]

Coal power plants require on average 1.14 pounds of coal per kilowatt-hour of energy. That works out to a little under 650kg of coal per minute to produce 75MW of power. At 15 coal per minute, each unit of coal should be around 43.3 kg.
A 500MW coal plant uses around 12 million gallons of water per hour, which converts to around 113 cubic meters of water per minute for a 75MW generator. That's 113 metric tons of water per minute, so Satisfactory generators are a bit lean on water.

[oblique hollow]

Thankfully

[royal yacht]

Same calculator I use for satisfactory stuff sometimes

[deft lichen]

uses water, like, takes as input in room temperature and evaporates it away?

coal generators don't have any visible steam coming out of them, unlike NPPs

however, both the coal gen and NPP use the exact same turbine, which is such a nice detail

[wind spade]

the coal is just thirsty

and refuses to be burned unless having a drink

[deft lichen]

I only know how it works in a nuclear power plant where the two inner loops are closed, and the third loop is what needs the constant supply of water that gets evaporated

whether coal power plants also use a closed loop, idk

[wind spade]

afaik both of them basically heat water to power steam turbines

[deft lichen]

yeah, my point is about recycling the water

nuclear power plants recycle the water because it's radioactive, so I have no idea whether coal power plants do any recycling

[wind spade]

the heated one? 🤔

it recycles the cooling water afaik

not the turbine one

because the cooling water is what actually goes through the reactor

(tho I may misremember lol)

[wind spade]

oh nvm it's the other way around

[deft lichen]

there are 3 loops, reactor, turbine and cooling

[scenic elm]

does anyone know how to load balance 2 pipes into 3 pipes evenly?

[median heath]

Stop thinking about pipes in terms of belts.

[scenic elm]

wdym?

[median heath]

You don't load balance pipes.

[analog meteor]

yeah you dont

[median heath]

Junctions are not splitters, nor are they mergers.

[analog meteor]

just combine them and split

kinda

[median heath]

Fluid doesn't do what items do.

Pipes are a completely separate kind of system.

[scenic elm]

but they are transporting 720 water, mk2 pipes can only transport 600

[pale crest]

If you know how much is going through them, just join them together and use valves to limit the pipes equally

[scenic elm]

i cant make it one

[median heath]

Stop thinking about pipes in terms of belts.

[scenic elm]

ok

[analog meteor]

its not that complicated

plus a manifold would work just fine if the three pipes your splitting "consumes" the correct number

[wind spade]

Never use valves

[wind spade]

How do you get 720?

[median heath]

6 Water Extractors?

[wind spade]

I'm asking them 🙂

[scenic elm]

i got 720 with a overclocked water fracking node because there wasnt any water nearby for water extractors

also its for the water for my nuclear reactors so its pretty important

[wind spade]

So you really got a few separate sources of smaller values

So merge them to the amounts you need

[old plover]

#screenshots message @silk hinge numbers make sense when you look at the game using cycle times

[oblique hollow]

That recipe is meant to be used in multiples of 8 for the numbers to make sense.
Most decimal numbers in recipes can be removed by multiplying by 2 often enough

the output of frame is not 2.813, but 2.8125
multiplied by 8 thats 22.5/min

[median heath]

||45-81 rule||

[old plover]

the only recipe that I really don't like for that is caterium circuit board

[median heath]

It is listed as one of the very few exceptions in the rule description.

[old plover]

where's that rule?

or that list or that description 😂

[median heath]

So the premise of the 45-81 rule is getting production in "clean numbers" with respect to clock speed.
As you may or may not know, the game enforces a 4 decimal limit on clock speeds (it does not care about parts per minute, nor does anything in the game actually operate on parts per minute, EVERYTHING is done in individual cycles with respect to clock speed for cycle time)

Example: if you tell a Smelter to do 20/min instead of 30/min, the clock % changes to 66.6666%.
The UI will say 20 ppm, but this is a lie to make you feel better about yourself. The machine truncates anything after xx.xxxx%, so you do not actually get 20/min, you get 66.6666% of 30 (which is 19.99998).
Now, to MOST people, this doesn't matter. But I am a stickler for precision, so not actually getting 20 bothers me (even though you'd literally see a production difference only after a couple hundred thousand cycles).

So the math was done to find out how to make production lines "behave", and the first thing we solved was the 81 part of the rule. With respect to Rubber/Plastic - always do them in multiples of 81 and all machines in the recycled loop automatically fall within the 4 decimal limit. No repeating numbers, no imprecision.
The 45 part of the rule applies to non-oil products. Do your final product amount in multiples of 45 and everything in the production chain automatically behaves without you needing to think about it.
Exceptions: Caterium Circuit Board, Pure Iron, Fine Concrete
(CtCB and PureFe usually outweigh the rule because you'll be doing them in such large quantities that they fine a common multiple somewhere up the chain.
No one should ever use Fine Concrete.)

Note: 45-81 is the lowest whole number multiple, but you can cut them in halves to achieve closer to your actual goals.
I.E. 45/22.5/11.25/5.625/2.8125, or 81/40.5/20.25/10.125 (going lower than 10.125 on oil causes issues)

So if you needed 100 Plastic, I would instead say to make 81+20.25=101.25

[old plover]

that's nice, actually when planning backwards with 100% machines on final production, everything upstream works following more or less with that rule, as if the maths was thought for this. I very often see those numbers

[median heath]

All going out the window in September 😂

[old plover]

yea most likely lol, they said they'll change recipes so that they use intergers or something like that

[median heath]

If they do that for all recipes I am out.

[vapid gorge]

??? it's an amazing recipe

[old plover]

It is good only for caterium computer. Sole purpose math wise

[oblique hollow]

math wise in regards to ratios or what?

[median heath]

Caterium CB is what I pair with Crystal Computer...

[old plover]

yes

[oblique hollow]

odd choice

[old plover]

you store / sink the slight overproduction?

[oblique hollow]

the ratios still work out, just that Cat CB would force a mutliple of 7

[median heath]

I mean... I make 270+ Computers/min...
So it kind of doesn't have overproduction at that scale...

[old plover]

it's overproduction in itself 😂

[oblique hollow]

if he uses 270 per min then no

ratio of Cat CB to Crystal Comp is 6 to 7

[vapid gorge]

fuck maths? you have full clocking control. Why are you letting numbers dictate what you do?

[median heath]

CLLEEEEEAAANNNNN

Integer building counts

[old plover]

FICSIT HR wants to speak with you...

[sand epoch]

Employee of the month award

[jovial wyvern]

Uses as in "pulls in water to act as a coolant to condense the closed-loop steam after the steam has passed through the generator turbine."

[deft lichen]

so "yes"

(thanks for the clarification though)

[jovial wyvern]

It's not so much that it evaporates away, but rather the now warmer water is discharged back into wherever it came from, usually downstream from the intake if the plant is on a river.

[deft lichen]

yeah, this goes back to my point

the generators don't have a warm water output, it's implied the water is somehow consumed entirely

but you can't see it evaporate, the chimney only emits smoke

[jovial wyvern]

Maybe the warm water goes into one of Ficsit's pocket dimensions.

[fringe pawn]

Coal generators do indeed output warm water. It can create environmental problems around them.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/07/bitcoin-power-plant-is-turning-a-12000-year-old-glacial-lake-into-a-hot-tub/

Maybe newer designs can use closed loop water systems? But I don't know how much effort is going into Hi-Tech coal power because it's an obsolescent way to make power in the first place.

[jagged warren]

obviously

the coal is burnt so that it vaporizes water

so the water is at ~100°C

[balmy shell]

I thought it was normally cooled and recycled after tho?

[jagged warren]

its very hard to cool water though

matter of fact its probably the hardest substance to cool and heat up in the universe

so do keep that in mind

[balmy shell]

How so?

[jagged warren]

because it has one of the highest specific heat capacity of any substance we know of

[median heath]

I would say the hardest thing to heat up is aerogel 🤷‍♂️

[jagged warren]

to heat up a kilo of water by 1 K (or 1°C) you need a little over 4.18 kJ

so to cool a kilo water by 1K it needs to radiate out 4.18 kJ. where to though?

for comparison iron has under 0.45 kJ kg-1 K-1 of specific heat capacity according to wikipedia

so 9x easier to heat/cool down

[fringe pawn]

Overall, it's the same situation for a lot of things. It's cheaper to pull in more of a new raw resource then recycle any sort of output.

[versed violet]

There are two main ways of recycling the internal loop water.
Method one: dump it into nearby lake. Creates a warm environment hospitable to new kinds of fish and never freezes. Fishers love that.
Method two: Build a condenser tower. The satis nuclear plant thingy? Thats a condenser tower, not a chimney. This method is expensive, but if you dont have body of water nearby, its what you do. The thing raising from it is steam, not smoke.

[royal yacht]

tbf the coal plants could take after steam trains and let out steam and smoke from the same exhaust

[jagged warren]

a truck loaded with plutonium waste should be radioactive for up to 1081 meters and cause maximal damage (20/s) to a range up to 92 meters

pretty dangerous

[vapid gorge]

clock your machines to your will

[vapid gorge]

@last matrix is that no the waste you're talking about? if not another pic would be needed

[last matrix]

yes dark gray is the co2 line

the pair of them, each from two banks of boilers

each line carries 450 a minute, or at least should

[vapid gorge]

ok so it's coming from 2 points

[last matrix]

yes, then merging int othe three refineries, from opposite ends

[vapid gorge]

split up the consumers so you don't merge them

[last matrix]

above shot https://i.imgur.com/En4rV8D.jpeg

[last matrix]

see what I said in the other channel - if you mean splitting the two waste lines that creates a math issue - the refinery sinks 300 and each line produces 450

[vapid gorge]

not a math issue, a flow issue

[last matrix]

no I mean 2 refineries is more than a line produces, and one is too little

[vapid gorge]

merging multiple systems in general is not a good idea for fluids - I'm sure it's an even worse idea for gases

[last matrix]

and I have it valved so therei s no backflow

[vapid gorge]

Valves don't stop back flow

also valves only work in a flooded system

and maybe not with gases afaik

build another floor of refs or something - but I highly recommend keeping both 450 waste lines completely independent

and in general don't merge any pipe system that doesn't have to be merged, one of the basic pipe rules

and assume anything that is tricky for liquids is 10x worse for gases

[vapid gorge]

and in case you want an image for why valves don't stop back flow

and how valves only function under certain conditions

and that's not even going into how, apparently, there's an issue with the setting so that the number set may not be reliable

I built a 90gw TF plant with RP before - definitely need to keep them in their own units

[last matrix]

wait what

that is their entire purpose

and what the wiki says they are for

[vapid gorge]

no no it's not. It's what people expect

[last matrix]

The Valve is a building that attaches to Pipelines. Its primary purpose is to limit the flow rate and prevent backflow

[vapid gorge]

They, technically, do prevent fluid that is in front of them, moving to a point behind them.

but look at the diagram for the explanation

[oblique hollow]

thats their purpose
but they fail at it

[last matrix]

as in there is a bug or what

[vapid gorge]

diagram

[oblique hollow]

more of a "due to how the system works" kind of thing

this is a pretty common edge case where valves can no longer prevent "back flow"

[vapid gorge]

the system in question also invovles gases - no idea how that affects it

[oblique hollow]

as in there is no fluid moving back through them, but a pressure wave effectively "causes" the flow on the valve's input to switch direction

[last matrix]

this is what I meant by starving and idling by the way https://i.imgur.com/HmyzsVg.jpeg

the input amount dropped below 15 just for a second but the machine idles for 5 seconds because of it

thus then causing the flow to back up,and then the input to hit the 50 ceiling, blocking inflow yet again

[vapid gorge]

yeah looks like you have a flow issue

[last matrix]

and this oscillates

[last matrix]

the issue is that the boilers do not generate 45/min smoothly

they do it in intermittent big packets of 30-50

and I have 20 of them

[vapid gorge]

unless you fucked up the math or there is another massive issue? make them 2 independent ref systems

this is 90gw of dealing with CO2 with that mod. Pls. Just try it

[last matrix]

I am trying it https://i.imgur.com/BFM4nuZ.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/yap1ccd.jpeg

split into 2 and 1, clocked to 75% and 150% respectively

now both sides are starving a bit https://i.imgur.com/nUl8udR.jpeg

while the co2 flow on each line is <<450 https://i.imgur.com/ux0Jyhi.jpeg

and it is backing up in the heaters https://i.imgur.com/vwRszIe.jpeg

that happened in under 60 seconds

I do think the issue is burst output

and the refineries thus running only at ~90% duty

and thus, despite recipes suggesting a ratio-perfect build, in actuality having less consumption than production

@vapid gorge you said to never use buffers for gases - why

because that would solve the duty cycling problem i think

[vapid gorge]

So buffers with liquids can really mess with things or do nothing if you know w hat you're doing

buffers with gasses really fucks up flow.

Can you make it so each 450 only feeds 1 ref? or is that what you did?

did you remove the valves?

[last matrix]

that is what I did with the exception of one side being 2 refs that sum to 450

[last matrix]

yes

[vapid gorge]

let the whole thing flood and see if there's still a flow issue - full pipes are happy pipes.

if that doesn't work may need to look at the elevation changes along the line where you collect the co2

[last matrix]

the pipes are full

and as for elevation, I thought gas was unaffected by that

[vapid gorge]

gas doesn't need headlift, but elevation changes are a bit wonky.

So the pipes are full but the refineries are still starving?

ok couple other things

1. were you ever building junctions ON pipes?
2. is it possible there's a hidden mk1 pipe along a section that needs a mk2?

cause this is really weird. If it's possible you built any junctions on top of existing pipes I'd suggest deleting pipe segments and replacing everything with mk2s just in case

[last matrix]

intermittently yes

[last matrix]

extensively to 1 and I checked for 2 but will check again

that said less extensively than the original as this is a pasted BP, so the junctions "came with the pipe" in most cases

[vapid gorge]

I'd be suss about the bp if you think they might have been build on the pipes in teh bp - so yeah delete all the pipe segments and replace with mk2

[last matrix]

want the BP file?

[vapid gorge]

I honestly haven't even unlocked bps in my last world.

I don't use them.

[amber laurel]

how do i get rid of a uranium thingy node outside my base

jus learned that i cant blow it up 😭

[vapid gorge]

deposit or node? if deposit you mine it
node you can't do anything about

other than not build a base next to it

[last matrix]

also given the locations of the uranium nodes...

I really doubt you built a base there

especially an earlygame one

unrelated, this video seems to describe a serious design flaw in valves (timestamp): https://youtu.be/QQpAEfMFZOs?t=300

[vapid gorge]

yeah it's in the pipe manual

[last matrix]

I can readily imagine how such behavior could arise: implementation with a naive multiplier on fluid level

rather than a Math.min()

[vapid gorge]

this isn't you, right @oblique hollow ?

[last matrix]

no

[vapid gorge]

xD

[last matrix]

the person in the video references him

and the guide

[vapid gorge]

he's making some errors in the explanation here

Huh, does the manual talk about work pressure @oblique hollow https://youtu.be/ZwO-F82sYE4?t=471 ?

[oblique hollow]

Of course it does

It invented the term

I already pointed out some things in the accompanying reddit post for this video

[vapid gorge]

yeah looking at it now, it doesn't seem confusing or making it sound like hte same thing as headlift

[oblique hollow]

work pressure is mostly just the fill level of a pipe

[median heath]

Work pressure is when the boss puts a deadline and now you have to crunch.

[vapid gorge]

and it's desire to move to a less full section?

[oblique hollow]

That what work pressure regulates - flow

[barren elm]

Yeah it was kinda stunning to see that VIP is less capable than a humble valve

It gets recommended here a lot but it took, what, 2 years before someone actually tested it

Kinda amazed from a programming perspective that the internal fluid height inside a buffer actually matters too

[royal yacht]

@fallow vector so this (no 45 rule)

vs this (45 rule)

[fallow vector]

still seems like nonsense.

"oh noes, mah decimals"

[royal yacht]

with the exception of one or two buildings (notably cheap silica where I was experimenting with something) everything is now a multiple of 2 which makes production cleaner

[fallow vector]

I'm not seeing how it's any cleaner

[royal yacht]

perfect numbers, no rounding error

same machines, imperfect number, rounding error

[fallow vector]

oh noes, mah decimals

[royal yacht]

won't make a huge dent but makes the overclocking much nicer and everything more consistent

[fallow vector]

consistency is in application.

[royal yacht]

eh not really

I kinda knew it was a thing but sev went into it a bit more yesterday, when you have the x.xxxx(x+1) decimals you're overproducing slightly and when it's x.xxxxx it's underproducing slightly

[fallow vector]

if I only need 8.5 computers, why would I make less than 8.5 computers?

[royal yacht]

en-masse that adds up

[fallow vector]

oh noes, mah decimals

[barren elm]

It was made to enable sushi belts where that kind of thing matters, if you don't use sushi belts (which, let's be real, is everyone except like 5 people) this doesn't matter

[royal yacht]

I mean this is generally the objectively correct response but it did clean up a few underclocked to 5% machines disappear

[fallow vector]

I clock machines in my manifolds to the same speed & add/remove them as-needed

[fallow vector]

oh noes, mah decimals sushi

[barren elm]

Pretty much

[fallow vector]

I keep saying sushi belters are a weird bunch 😛

[royal yacht]

idk I like the pretty numbers, but this factory is already a nightmare so this is mostly just to get an accurate representation for how many machines I'll need

[barren elm]

I think it's silly too, but I also think it's a game where what you do is largely cosmetic in nature, and if it makes them happy...

[royal yacht]

for example this calls for 17 manufacturers* (assuming 100%) but I only have space for 12 in the design I want to force, so I already need to manually do all the maths at some point

[fallow vector]

ah, so it's for people that want to shoot themselves in the foot by constraining themselves unnecessarily

[royal yacht]

no it's for people that want pretty decimals

I just have an extra constraint that means this calculator isn't even a good representation of what I'm doing regardless

[fallow vector]

looks at pi

[fallow vector]

"pretty" decimal = unnecessary constraint

[royal yacht]

but yeah this one has some wacky numbers when I try and get nice output numbers like 10 but that made it hella hard to plan machines so I did the 45 thing and now the machines are much nicer

[fallow vector]

makes note to close issues requesting 45:81 support as "won't fix"

if y'all want to use silly numbers, put them in yoself 😛

[royal yacht]

ideally I need to get every machine as close to a multiple of 6 as possible but the calculator will never be able to handle that

and not just every machine but every machine group

just for extra stupid constraining...

[static pine]

So I set up two parallel smelter lines of 13ea - total output 780. Two manifold series of 13. It seems as though the manifolds are slowing down the mk5 belts and backing up such that the front 5 smelters are running at 0-18% efficiency. I dont understand how this can happen if im still filling my mk5 belt by the end

[royal yacht]

oh also on the topic of silly constraints, I'm thinking of just doing my calculator thing in js/ts now

because every time I think about doing it all again but with python I stop wanting to touch it

[fallow vector]

good thing I already have an npm package for that

[royal yacht]

exactly

[fallow vector]

got docker?

(also, p.s. before anyone complains, Haigen said so)

[royal yacht]

no because I have a weird thing about it like with ts but I'll figure it out

[fallow vector]

if you need to debug/fork shit, the git projects have devcontainers to get the dev envrionment set up correctly

[wind spade]

Tools are basically made in TS 🙂 just the calculation part is offloaded to a server, but would be possible to keep it in client

[royal yacht]

yeah I was thinking about doing my own wrapper in python but I keep putting it off

[scenic plaza]

hey folks, as part of a design for an iron processing plant we have this part here, where a smelter produces 60 ingots/min but we only use 50. is there any way to get a 25-25-10 split that isnt too headache inducing such that we can feed the 10 into a resource sink or some other constructor?

[coarse bough]

split into 3, you get 20 - 20 - 20, then split a 20 into 10, and merge the rest, and then split it in two

[royal yacht]

reduce inputs by 10

[coarse bough]

or that

[scenic plaza]

well the idea is to not have any over/undersupply

[royal yacht]

you're either sinking the oversupply (waste) or you're not mining or smelting the undersupply (waste)

choose your poison :3

you probably won't get many tickets out of it so makes no difference really

[scenic plaza]

yeah thats why i was considering just leaving it like that tbh

its a lot simpler

[pseudo cedar]

Build another screw constructor, underclock to 40%, manifold the rods in and feed the 40% constructor into a sink

[royal yacht]

personally I would prefer to do one of the two just to keep the machines on green but really they both work

[royal yacht]

yeah that gets slightly more points I guess, still not many

[pseudo cedar]

Yeah it’s just a liiitle bit better

[royal yacht]

I mean I've sunk like 1.2 rods a minute before just to get rid of a miniscule amount of excess but honestly it wasn't worth it

[pseudo cedar]

It does have a power cost though so before coal I’d just underclock everything before it to keep it perfect

[scenic plaza]

underclocking to save power is probably a better move

[pseudo cedar]

After coal, power is free

[scenic plaza]

also considering the side context that im not even sure im ready to support this power wise yet

[royal yacht]

what's the factory for?

is it just screws or are they to be used in RIPs?

[scenic plaza]

dont know what that acronym indicates

[royal yacht]

reinforced iron plates

[scenic plaza]

those screws are being used for rotors as can be seen below in the black squares

[royal yacht]

ah gotcha

oh yeah my bad I'm blind lol

[scenic plaza]

np

[royal yacht]

imo it should be fine power wise, just try not to go over 10 biomass burners seems to be the general sanity saving concensus

[scenic plaza]

we have coal power its just annoying to lay out

[royal yacht]

you're basically close enough to the requirements to coal you could speed-run it and then infinite power

[scenic plaza]

we have 600mw of coal power matter of fact

[royal yacht]

stick to the 8:3 ratio and it's pretty nice tbh (8 gens : 3 extractors)

[scenic plaza]

we currently have 4 gens and 4 extractors i think? but the generators are OCd to 200%

power shards save me please save me power shards

[royal yacht]

overclocking generators isn't really worth it from what I remember

overclocking in general at that stage isn't really worth it either but meh there's more than enough slugs around

[pseudo cedar]

It isn’t technically an issue, but it does waste shards just for space savings

[royal yacht]

slightly more coal consumption for slightly less power I thought, or was that changed?

[pseudo cedar]

It doesn’t change the conversion though and it is linear

[coarse bough]

isnt that the point of shards, to save space?

[royal yacht]

ah ok, I always forget which parts got changed with overclocking lol

[pseudo cedar]

Yes and no, most of your shards should in theory be used for miners as that increases the total resource amount in the world

[coarse bough]

mh, true ig, but like, pretty sure you have way more shards available than miners, no?

[pseudo cedar]

Everything else is just a space saving measure, but for manufacturing buildings it increases power cost

[royal yacht]

oh for sure

like multiples more even

[pseudo cedar]

Yeah, and with doggos it’s infinite, but I still like to save them

[coarse bough]

i feel like relying on doggos for that is a bit unreliable tho

[pseudo cedar]

It’s just a supplemental source, and as a supplemental source it’s really nice

Getting nuclear waste really sucks though

[coarse bough]

ofc

[coarse bough]

havent got any yet x)

[pseudo cedar]

You’re lucky, I got it on 2 separate doggos (out of 3) early on and just stopped visiting

[coarse bough]

lmao

[pseudo cedar]

On the same visit, I might add

[coarse bough]

helpful doggo

[pseudo cedar]

Well one of them is

[coarse bough]

xD

[fallow vector]

yeah I was thinking about doing my own

[scenic plaza]

also if there was anyone wondering this is the full layout

8 rotors, 6.66 mod frames, 8.33 reinforced plates, 120 screw, 30 rods, 40 plates / min

[wind spade]

one splitter 🙂

[vapid gorge]

yeah jsut one sink if you're feeding into another machine will do it

[fresh helm]

how you make that ?

pls

[vapid gorge]

by overthinking it

and spending 2x as long on that than just doing the layout in game

[scenic plaza]

drawio

[scenic plaza]

game community when person has fun taking game seriously

[coarse bough]

that's literally the type of games made for nerds who like to over-optimize everything, what's the issue with that

[scenic plaza]

thats my point

[scenic plaza]

drawio

[vapid gorge]

You can easily make layouts in game

[coarse bough]

yeah ik dw

[vapid gorge]

that are perfect

[fresh helm]

thx

[vapid gorge]

w/o spending huge amounts of extra time

[coarse bough]

might have missed sth, but how do you do layouts in game?

[vapid gorge]

and depending what you're trying this takes up a lot more space and is far less compact than what you could do - though personal goals will dictate if it's a positive or negative https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/1259885930433613874/image.png?ex=668d4fb5&is=668bfe35&hm=c106d89b64ff3281e3735c66f76ce635a6063f032d0a238eeef4832f5b14f4ec&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1355&height=575

[vapid gorge]

You build it

[coarse bough]

lol

[wind spade]

I mean it's true

[coarse bough]

of course it is, but it is silly T-T

[wind spade]

you have full refund on everything so you can just try whatever you want
you have all the game rules already integrated in the "planner"
when you finish planning, it's already built

[vapid gorge]

me making sure my assemblers would have enough space to exist and have logistics

they became permanent after

if you really need notes something like (6 smelter --- x ingots--> 3x assemblers) , build , is enough

[fresh helm]

it's true but it's not same

[wind spade]

no, it's even better 🙂

[coarse bough]

i mean, yeah, but for big build it's just cumbersome

[wind spade]

big build is just a collection of small builds

[vapid gorge]

what? for big builds it's even better

[vapid gorge]

that first image? managing 12,000 quickwire pm

[coarse bough]

god

what are you manufacturing there

[vapid gorge]

50.4 uranium rods pm

in that image the main tower isn't done and it's only about 70% operational

in any case this sort of thing leads to a ton of overthinking, like you don't need the circled bits at all

I see people do things like this and later go on about burn out and I totally understand it. It'd take so much effort in a multi step system

[coarse bough]

mh yeah ig it makes sense

[vapid gorge]

maybe if you're very new and having a lot of issues doing the basic point a to point b in your brain, but definitely something to move away from asap

[coarse bough]

tbh i might have misunderstood a bit, like, yeah doing stuff in that much details for a relatively low numbers of item is a bit overkill

but idk why my brain interpreted it as "no planning at all" which is just plain stupid

[vapid gorge]

oh no, plan the crap out of things. At the very least use satisfactorytools.com for all the numbers you need

[wind spade]

most of the time the only planning you need to do is "how much do I need" and "how many machines of which recipes does that require"

[coarse bough]

yeah ofc

[vapid gorge]

like these are more notes than plans just to keep track of what was doing what

they prob don't make much sense to anyone but me

[wind spade]

but for the actual layout, you can just build a manifold or 1:1 machines and be done with it

[vapid gorge]

and I only needed that many notes because it was extremely compact and needed a lot of precise clocking

[coarse bough]

yeah fair

[wind spade]

@haughty venture see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[maiden radish]

Just decided to re start after taking break for few months when I go looking for my spread sheet I find out I deleted it not gd so now have to go rebuild the hole lot again 😢😢😢😢. And was like do is really want to start now or wait for 1.0 to do it.

[wind spade]

you can also use some online tools instead of making spreadsheets 🙂

[maiden radish]

Yes but the online tools it was pain to change the input or what I need for outputs based on percentage of power miner speed ext

[wind spade]

which one did you try?

[maiden radish]

Few ones in goggle search

[wind spade]

any from #welcome ?

[maiden radish]

Yep tried them didn't like them much compar d to using spread sheet. It allowed me to change the efficiency percentage it also changed the amount. Of power as well as allow it to.be upgrade with just changing the machine or miner tier or percentage it changed it all

[wind spade]

I can try to help you with your approach, if you're willing to give it a second try

I made one of the tools (Satisfactory Tools)

[maiden radish]

Lol it is not that I won't it is do I wait until 1.0 to do it as it will take few hours to import the back date recipes as well calculating formulas.

[maiden radish]

Cause if remember correctly it was cheap in power to have more machines running at I think 50% than less at 100%

[wind spade]

yeah but that's not related to the online tools

and the power saving is pretty small tbh

[oblique hollow]

40% is the biggest power saver per machine individually, anything else is diminishing returns and not worth it

[maiden radish]

Yep the power savings was enough plus it ment that when upgrade to higher teir I just raised the percentage

Yep

[wind spade]

usually there's no point in upgrading to higher tier

just build new factory instead 🙂

[maiden radish]

Lol it was about getting the highest amount of items off the node

[wind spade]

yeah which you can still do by adding a splitter after miner

[maiden radish]

Yep the idea I had for the play though is each tier is in one area so in the starting area u had the factory that produces everything that is involved in teir +1,2

The spreadsheet also changed the percentages so that the input ore ,/item didn't have a stupid amount per machine per min that is hard to split it also worked out the amount of extra I had

[wind spade]

"hard to split" is never a thing
you can always manifold

[maiden radish]

It was perfect line that ended up right amount or the machine amount of import i changed to be 5 10 ect

[wind spade]

most of the time people just use manifolds and/or clock machines to match ratios

[maiden radish]

As long as I didn't waste ingots /ore eveything else's is. Mostly used in building something so is useful to have extras amount

[wind spade]

I guess you just have a different way of thinking about making production 🤷‍♂️

[maiden radish]

Lol yer is was with iron plates it was something like 1.3 extra per min than need in the machines so there is enough to trickle into storage without setting up dedicated line for it

Or I just sinked the extra bits

[wind spade]

or increase the production slightly to cover that excess

[maiden radish]

The information I could do with is the more complicated back dater the power Vs percentage. Stuff like that

[wind spade]

the Tools I made don't really optimise for power, because power is practically infinite

they optimise for resource usage (minimising amount of resources you need)

[oblique hollow]

running out of power isnt a possibility before you run out of everything else

[maiden radish]

Yep min does as well but it let me know how much power I needed so when I built that part I could see how much power plants I needed to build and the produce line for them as well

[oblique hollow]

space, time and most importantly your pc's processing power are much more limited

[maiden radish]

Yep but the amount of people I have seen mess up the amount of power they need

[oblique hollow]

thats just... normal

"whoopsee i went over my limit :("
the answer since the very beginning of the game was always "get more power"
using less power is an intermediary solution to get to that stage without blowing a fuse

[maiden radish]

Yep the power calculation was more a out what resources I need to input to get the maximum amount of power for resources

The other part of play though was can only expand but not deleted lower tier factory

[balmy shell]

With coal, do u need one water pump per power plant? Not sure how pipes work

[true ledge]

are there any general rules that i should know when building any factory?

[balmy shell]

Try keeping them in a line with ctrl, and tiling buildings with splitters (manifolds)

[true ledge]

tiling?

[balmy shell]

Like this

Cant find original but here

[sly sentinel]

Sorry for my ignorance, but is psckaged fuel or blender better in terms of output for diluted fuel?

[deft lichen]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[deft lichen]

diluted fuel (blender) is better

[balmy shell]

Good to know thx

[sly sentinel]

Outout is better or just less power hungry and simpler process?

Thank you

[deft lichen]

oh sorry, it's more power efficient and arguably simpler to build

[sly sentinel]

Thanks a lot.

Sonehow I don't seem to find a way to force satisfactory calculator to find a way to use fuel with resin recipe. It insists on rubber and plastic. Do you know what am I doing wrong? Or is it better way of doing it?

[oblique hollow]

Disable those recipes

It doesnt use the fuel and resin reicpe cause its inefficient as hell for making rubber and plastic

If you cant disable them in satisfactory calculator, use the one on Satisfactory Tools instead

[sly sentinel]

But I don't care about rubber and plastic. I just need moaar powaaah

[oblique hollow]

SF tools is probably your best bet

[sly sentinel]

Thanks a lot. Will try.

[dusk topaz]

I use Manifold a lot. It is totally expectable that I'm not the first to invent it. )))

Having a bauplan for these pieces comes handy. ^_^

I wish there was more space for blueprinting.

[deft lichen]

you can make a blueprint with 4 smelters for faster placing

[deft lichen]

the limit is by design, you're only supposed to make small modules like these, not whole factories

[dusk topaz]

True, I just usually have a lot of obstacles in my schematoziacal scaffolds and never build large buildings.

[dusk topaz]

Ficsit are such oppressors.

[deft lichen]

not oppressors, they just haven't figured out how to make it bigger

we could walk through walls if they could think of a way how

[dusk topaz]

Alright the good old "don't look for evil where stupidity is enough".

[sly sentinel]

Why I can't make module with logistic floor under coal generator ia beyond me. Those chimneys should be allowed to get 4m over BP designer.

[deft lichen]

you can BP the floor and then place the generator separately

they had to adjust the designer for it to work with coal generators in the first place

[vapid gorge]

for any machine, look at how much it needs per minute and then feed it that much - don't measure things by buildings

[wind spade]

Fluid is better to feed from above anyway

[median heath]

?

[sly sentinel]

Why? If I had enough head pressure once it fills it does not really matter, especially if I have a pressure tower.

[wind spade]

if you feed from above, the pipes don't need to be full for fluid to reach gens
if you feed from below, the pipes need to fill first before reaching gens

half filled setup fed from below/above

[vapid gorge]

though if you think you have good pipe skills and build carefuly you can feed from below. Just accept you have to be more strict with layout

[median heath]

It isn't better from above objectively.

It's just "more recommended" as the average person doesn't do bottom feeding properly.

[wind spade]

while feeding from below can work, it has more chance of breaking if you mess up something somewhere else (or just build slightly inefficiently)

[vapid gorge]

yeah, hence 'you have to be very strict with how you build'. I don't recommend it - but it's what I do xD

[sly sentinel]

So recommend for non-plubers. Got it. Thanks 🙂

[reef quartz]

Is this the loop design the wiki talks about? (https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Pipelines#Current_issues second note)

[deft lichen]

yes

well, there's multiple reasons why loops should be used

[vapid gorge]

That one is specifically for bottom feeding and not in the wiki afaik

[vapid gorge]

This would be a very good example of a standard loop though

[carmine iron]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_PlutoniumFuelRod_C"%3A"12.6"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_PureQuartzCrystal_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureIronIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureCopperIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_PureCateriumIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_UraniumCell_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_NuclearFuelRod_1_C"]} can someone told me if it is the best way to do it or there is alternate recipes I should use

[vapid gorge]

That’s probably the most efficient way to remove waste. I just looked at the final output though because calc planner is trash and it looks like a mess

[maiden radish]

@greeny her is the first part of the spread sheet with most of the base equations insert as well as base infor for miner

[carmine iron]

Nice thanks

[carmine iron]

What should I use instead.

[vapid gorge]

Satisfactorytools.com

Much better ui

Like 1000000% better

[carmine iron]

Nice I used satis calculator for about 4 years 😂😂

[deft lichen]

@wind spade ping failed

[grizzled walrus]

ı dont understand

this

[grizzled walrus]

...

what is this mecanich

[maiden radish]

@wind spade yep my mistake but here is the full information for the components need for tier 1 and tier 2 imputed

[vapid gorge]

What do you mean?

[grizzled walrus]

ı dont understand

what is it

[vapid gorge]

It’s a design for a pipe manifold to successfully feed machines fluids from a lower point

[grizzled walrus]

ok ok

[vapid gorge]

Feeding fluids from bellow can be tricky and is generally not recommended, but if you’re careful with layout and use this design it’s fairly safe

[true ledge]

i have made my first factory

it should make around 15 reinforced iron plates per minute

[grizzled walrus]

ok

wow

you factory is so good

[wind spade]

yeah for that I'd just use online tools

[maiden radish]

Lol the next part is planning the early factory based on these numbers

[wind spade]

@analog meteor

[analog meteor]

no. ig i should add that if we have 1 full belt and another so like 900 item per min coming in. for example

we just make a row of splitters above and we would have 60 per min left.

[last matrix]

for a "deadlock" situation to be possible, there has to be a resource that is a product of recipe A, and consumed by recipe B, and B has to also produce an ingredient of A, while there is also additional fresh supply of that ingredient to "make up the difference", correct?

[analog meteor]

remove the above belt. take the immage and duplicate it mirrored

[vapid gorge]

are you talking about waste water? a dead lock can happen any time you mix waste with fresh if you don't build it properly

[last matrix]

waste water is the only situation in vanilla where it happens

but I am speaking more generally

specifically regarding the conditions for a deadlock to be possible, based on the recipes themselves

[vapid gorge]

More generally a lock will happen any time 1 of the products isn't being consumed or sunk

[last matrix]

that will shut down that item, but a true deadlock is a subset of that

[vapid gorge]

define dead lock

[analog meteor]

yeah

[last matrix]

a deadlock, like the analogous train situation, involves a system that will not restart when the thing that incited the deadlock is cleared

ie it is self-blocking

[analog meteor]

we need to have an officical common term set

[last matrix]

in the case of aluminum for example:

• alumina solution consumes water and bauxite, and so will only run if there is space for more alumina
• aluminum scrap consumes alumina and coal and produces water and scrap, so will only run if there is space for more water

[vapid gorge]

then I think so yes - except you can build those systems so they restart even if they stall out

[last matrix]

as such once the water line gets completely full, the system will never restart without a manual pipe flush

even if the transient state that cauased that - eg a scrap backup or bauxite shortage - resolves

[royal yacht]

I believe it's a fairly simple fix though right?

[last matrix]

I am not asking about fixes

[royal yacht]

just dedicate machines to use only output products?

[vapid gorge]

I think they're talking theoreticals

[last matrix]

I am asking about the conditions for such a situation to be possible, given only the recipes involved

basically, given a set of recipes, determine if a deadlockable loop exists

[analog meteor]

id ask chat gpt at this point

[royal yacht]

oh you're just asking if given all recipes in the game can you work out if any will deadlock?

[vapid gorge]

ok other times it could happen - sushi/bus system where an output is getting put on a belt where inputs are also being moved but the output isn't being consumed fast enough

[last matrix]

....ML is not a magic answer divining machine - it just regurgitates a statistical average of what others have said

[vapid gorge]

jfc no

[royal yacht]

because I believe @fallow vector literally has a section of code that makes sure those situations don't recurse, code could be re-applied I guess

[last matrix]

given any specific set of arbitrary recipes, if a deadlock can occur yes

without relying on preconceived assumptions about what recipes exist or those recipes consume/produce

for example saying that since in vanilla only waste water recipes can do this, making that a criterion

[analog meteor]

prob have smth to do with the out puts and inputs added together being grater than some other value blah blah. idk

[royal yacht]

sulphuric acid would like a word

[fallow vector]

recycleable plastic made from recycleable rubber

[royal yacht]

but yeah I believe the check would be to just see if any of the inputs of any of the recipes also happen to be any of the outputs of any of the recipes in your arbitrary selection

[wind spade]

but it's only deadlockable if you actually reuse that water in the same loop

[fallow vector]

digs up code

[analog meteor]

i dont think we can get an answer without knowing every detail about the recepies

[last matrix]

that is indeed such a cause, though is also outside the scope of what I am getting at, as it is dependent upon the specific logistic topology of the factory and not the recipes themselves

[royal yacht]

and if the matches are more than two there is a possibility

[last matrix]

that is what I did at first but that is clearly not sufficient for a deadlock given thought

if recipe A takes X Y and makes Z, and reicpe B takes Z and makes Q, that is not deadlockable

yet it meets your criteria of "a product of one recipe is an ingredient of another"

[royal yacht]

hence the matches needing to be more than two

[vapid gorge]

yesssss - but even the recycled by product by definition falls under that because you don't need to inject it into the fresh system. You can completely avoid deadlocks by choosing the logistic for it

[royal yacht]

in which case it's possible but not garaunteed

[last matrix]

the recipes are known - I am just saying not to make assumptions about what they will be, eg that only X kind of recipe are worth considering

[last matrix]

define "matches more than two"

[royal yacht]

more than two "in of one is equal to out of another"

[last matrix]

if you also had the reverse you mean? because the recycled plastic/rubber recipes only produce their desired output

[last matrix]

they would need to be linked, in an actual loop though, right? because I could easily design a factory with an arbitrarily large number of "input of A is output of B" pairs, unidirectionally

I mean most complete factories fit that criterion

[royal yacht]

I guess more precisely, you have to check if the out of one is used in the in of another, and also that the out of that is used for the in of anything in the chain before that

[analog meteor]

maybe it should be. "a product of a recipe is an ingredient of the other and the other way aroud" its difficult to explain

[last matrix]

yes that is what I was getting at initially

[wind spade]

which is exactly the problem I mentioned - whether or not something is deadlockable depends purely on how you build it

[royal yacht]

hence it being a possibility

[last matrix]

here

[royal yacht]

tbh of all the hypotheticals I've seen in this channel this is the most

[last matrix]

only certain kinds of recipes will ever make that relevant, and identifying those sets is my goal

basically "what kinds of recipe sets even have this as a thing you need to pay attention to"

[wind spade]

I mean depending on your build style, it can be none or almost all

[royal yacht]

just never have an output loop into an input anywhere on it's own supply chain and you will never deadlock

I think that's the most basic way of putting it

[last matrix]

again the topology of the logistics is out of scope for my purpose

I am not saying "given a set of recipes, how can I build it to avoid deadlocks"

[royal yacht]

it literally is not, you can build the topology for that however you look the condition of a deadlock is soley that an output loops into the input of it's own supply chain

[vapid gorge]

I don't think that's a useful thing to not have in your scope because the deadlock is entirely reliant on building it to be deadlockable

[last matrix]

I am saying "given a set of recipes, how do I identify whether I need to even consider that in the first place"

[fallow vector]

https://github.com/satisfactory-dev/Satisfactory-Production-Calculator/blob/188c9127e468ad891ce0fe25d53974304ece28d5/lib/ProductionCalculator.ts#L715

[vapid gorge]

and you can always build a system that can deadlock

[last matrix]

with most recipe sets you cannot - that is my point

[royal yacht]

so using any recipe combination that is the requirement for a potential deadlock. The output can but shouldn't be used in it's own input chain

[wind spade]

you can, mixed belts are a thing

[royal yacht]

L671 seems like a more accurate starting point

[vapid gorge]

sure you can - mod frame unit on sushi line that puts it's output on the same belt - if those mod frames don't get used? deadlock

[last matrix]

at a quick scan, this appears to do the kind of check I described at the outset, correct?

[fallow vector]

ping was in middle of conversation, I can has link?

[last matrix]

here

[fallow vector]

probably

[last matrix]

in particular the second half of that condition, where B must also produce A's ingredient

[fallow vector]

I would say check the tests I added also

[royal yacht]

from my brief understanding of the algorithm, it's checking whether the output is used anywhere in a breadth first search of it's inputs right?

[fallow vector]

different recursion

[royal yacht]

ah ok

[last matrix]

maybe if I describe why I am looking for this criterion it will make more sense why my focus is where it is, and why things are in or out of scope

[fallow vector]

• infinite loops
• digging into iron iron plated and getting iron ingots then iron ore

[last matrix]

I am working on a planner tool designed for "self contained" factories given a defined set of inputs and outputs

[wind spade]

yeah I'm not really sure about usefulness of that algorithm 🤔 solving production as a tree-node-path isn't ideal anyway 😄

[last matrix]

and a defined set of recipes and number of assembling machines thereof

[royal yacht]

how else would you describe recipe data if not a tree?

[fallow vector]

have got production chain "is recursive" property for that

[wind spade]

linear solver problem

[last matrix]

one feature of this tool is a "warning" section, ie things the builder needs to pay attention to

[vapid gorge]

don't all planers work with a defined set if inputs and outputs?

[fallow vector]

node graph

[last matrix]

for example "this factory is set to cart in X via truck, but the flow rate exceeds that a truck can actually supply" (as dictated by belt limits and the truck stop's port count (2))

anwyay

I want to add a "deadlocking is a risk, be careful" warning

this is not useful if it shows up on all recipes