math-and-meta

[wind spade]

you can change clock speed on machines

[raven nest]

for concrete

oh true i could

[wind spade]

clock speed is pretty much most important thing you have at hand for making machines fit into desired ratios

[raven nest]

Alright how would I get the input of 40/min on the machine

like how would I get the appropiate clockspeed for it?

Because I can do fourty but I'm having trouble actually getting the proper setting for it

[little elk]

is overclocking possible from the beginning? doesn't it have to get unlocked first?

[raven nest]

Nevermind i got it

I think you get it from MAM if i remember correctly

[little elk]

either that or Tier unlock in HUB

[wind spade]

you divide normal output by the desired output, basic math 🙂
gives you clock speed to set

[oblique hollow]

if it normally makes 60:
40/60 = 0.666666....
multiply by 100 and you got clock speed

[raven nest]

yeah i figured that out

[raven eagle]

unlocked by researching powerslugs i believe in the mam so it is possible

[sudden sluice]

😟

[vapid gorge]

whats it for?

[sudden sluice]

fuel energy gen

and i was planning on overclocking lol

[vapid gorge]

sure just set up some power storage to kick start it if it's san issue

[frozen silo]

looking at the map it feels like dune desert would be a much better start than rocky desert

is there a reason why i would be wrong here?

because there's a nice coal area near where you could start and you have the edge of everything

sulfur, caterium, some quartz up north

[vapid gorge]

the east of RD as more resource versatility - but you might as well be in the northern forest start for them

[frozen silo]

ah yeah i figured

im seein that lol.

[median heath]

Multiple.

[frozen silo]

i did forget about the biofuel phase of the game

[median heath]

RD also has the highest node diversity of any biome.

And aesthetically it is prettier 😍

[vapid gorge]

the colour pallet is an eye sore 😛

[median heath]

Get your eyes fixed.

[frozen silo]

yeah im starting to think the place i am running to is the same place i always start in these

[median heath]

Blue trees are amazing.

[frozen silo]

so im probably gonna run around the desert

[median heath]

Most of us have a favorite spot that we always tend to end up at.

[frozen silo]

wait RD is WEST right?

[median heath]

Yes.

White sand, not orange.

[frozen silo]

and then east is the sand area and south is the starter starter zone

[median heath]

GF and RD are both "starter starter" zones.

NF and DD are the "recommended for non-starters".

[frozen silo]

fair enough. i do like the idea of DD and maybe in 1.0 i'll start there, but i found a nice place near RD that i'll chill in rn

[median heath]

RD is my favorite biome.

Favorite specific area for starting is west coast with the 6 normal irons.

[sudden sluice]

quick question again, if i need 52 refineries at 100% how do i know how many would i need if i overclock them at 250

[median heath]

52 / 2.5 =

[sudden sluice]

its overclock really worth it?

like i got the shards

[median heath]

Worth is subjective to the individual.

Your save, you are the sole person who determines what is and is not worth.

[sudden sluice]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/359425464885837827/977345355429601330/emoji.gif

[vapid gorge]

overclocking miners/extractors gets your more resource pm from a location - OCing other machines just save you space so largely aesthetic: up to you

[little elk]

i think i messed up. i planned a low output produce-every-weapon-factory. i now have 2 refineries producing different stuff (alu solution + electrode alu scrap) that need to run at 0,8%/0,5% clock speed if i want to keep everything running smoothly.
i don't seem to be able to reduce underclocking below 1%. Is there a method to handle this? or do i need to be practical about it?

[fierce ruin]

produce more, sink excess?

[little elk]

i will have to if there is no trick to set a smaller clock speed.

[fierce ruin]

i don't think there is

[little elk]

it feels very wrong to use a machine at this low of a clock speed anyways 😄

[fierce ruin]

too power-effective to be true

[wind spade]

clock speed is capped between 1 and 250

[tulip egret]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

my rotors arent getting enough rods per min to keep up with production but the numbers are 100% right and all rods on a mk4 belt

R=iron rods btw

anyone got any ideas

its a manifold too so all rods go to screws then once all full all go up to rotors and they should perfectly be able to keep up with no bumps but they wont

I FOUND THE CULPRIT

RANDOM MK3 BELT WAS BACKING IT UP

[primal flicker]

Most likely culprit in something like that

[short mortar]

I would just clock at 1% and let the output backup. After a while they'll naturally then run at the target speed because the output is blocked.

[little elk]

But the stuttering .... Yeah I only have to double check my fluid math if it checks out and then that sounds most sensible!

I was on the track of having to change something... This factory project is too large 😄

[shadow thicket]

what is best starter biome

i have about 100 hours

[wind spade]

any place on the map

there's no "best", because that depends on what you prefer

[shadow thicket]

most biofule

and nodes

best of both worlds

[wind spade]

most likely those are two different locations

[shadow thicket]

no i need them now and here and right now

not two different locations much to far away

[wind spade]

and nodes are irrelevant for starting location anyway, apart from iron, copper and limestone

[shadow thicket]

nooooo

but i need all of it right here pure and i can have 1000 biomass burners all burning flower petals

WHICH THEY ARE REMOVING!!!!!!!!!!!

[wind spade]

you can't make use of pure nodes fully anyway 🤷‍♂️

[shadow thicket]

i did

[wind spade]

it's literally impossible

[tulip egret]

no you cant

[shadow thicket]

how

[tulip egret]

mk3 miner fully OCed

[shadow thicket]

if i got 120 resources coming out

[wind spade]

how can you get 1200 out of the node if max belt is 780

[shadow thicket]

and then 3 40 per min constructers

[shadow thicket]

get 2 belts

[tulip egret]

mf

theres 1 output

[wind spade]

how do you connect two belts to one miner?

[shadow thicket]

convery mergy

[wind spade]

MINER

[tulip egret]

no

[wind spade]

merger won't help you if you have one belt output

[shadow thicket]

look

let me draw it

[wind spade]

miner has one output and can on pure nodes go up to 1200/min
mk5 belt (fastest in the game) goes up to only 780/min

HOW do you use more than 780/min from one miner

[tulip egret]

no

[shadow thicket]

sounds pretty good to me

[wind spade]

the belt between miner and splitter will still only be able to do 780

[tulip egret]

thats not how that works

[shadow thicket]

what if u ask it nicely

maybe its unmotivated

[tulip egret]

https://tenor.com/view/suspicious-cat-ayo-yo-ayoo-gif-14708032146858915875

[wind spade]

please stop trolling in a serious channel

[shadow thicket]

where is trolling channel

[wind spade]

nowhere. Trolling in general is not very welcome in pretty much any server

[little elk]

Bruh has been trolling the whole day

Feel free to search for users posts and see for yourself

[pulsar valve]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/829454853079171132/1029797983744696361/why_the_long_face.gif

[sudden sluice]

@median heath i forgot what u told me about if i get 53.333333 machines at 250% how do i get the .333333, was it 33.3333% of 250?

[median heath]

How many machines at 100%?

[sudden sluice]

133.33333333

[median heath]

Unfixable problem until you get the .333333 out of the base number by changing the amount you're making.

[sudden sluice]

Btw i have a few questions for pipes, do every machine gives u 10m uplift? If yes, when i go down and then up does that 10m start from the machine or when i start to go uplift

[sudden sluice]

would it be okay if i just make another machine at 33.33333%?

[sudden sluice]

or just remove the last machine

[median heath]

Depends on how you define "okay"?

[sudden sluice]

would it alter other machines

[median heath]

I am now confused.

[north ocean]

Can't you just take the output number at 250% clockspeed and multiply it by that .333 remainder to find that last machines output speed?

[magic island]

there's no way to clock the machines that won't result in at least one of them having a repeating decimal

best you can do is limit it to one machine so that the rest of the machines can have cleaner numbers

[median heath]

What are you trying to make again?

(and what recipes are being used?)

[north ocean]

I don't think it matters what the clock speed is, anytime I do math to get a number of machines and it has a decimal leftover I just multiply whatever the output number those machines are running by that decimal and set the last machine to that number

[magic island]

Like, if you need, say, 5.333333 machines' worth of [recipe], you could:

• Clock 6 machines at 88.8888%
• Clock 5 machines at 100% and a sixth machine at 33.3333%

...but no matter how you cut it up, you can't avoid having at least one machine with a repeating decimal.

[sudden sluice]

fuel gen, fuel

[sudden sluice]

yeah i dont care about the last one

i want to do that one

how do i do it

[north ocean]

So using normal fuel at 250 clockspeed is 30 per minute right? so multiply 30 by .333 and set that last machine to that number which should basically be 9.999 repeating or just 10 if your lazy, I'm just going off the top of my head for what the fuel numbers are, double check that in game

Otherwise if you are trying to average that across all the machines figure out your total fuel production and divide it by 54 machines and that will tell you the number you'll set all those machines to

[sudden sluice]

yes this is what i want

so 9.99999%?

[north ocean]

Not a percentage that's the raw number

Which you can also manually change, just type it in the text box

[sudden sluice]

ohh okay, ty

[sudden sluice]

btw someone?

[north ocean]

I do think that all the machines have 10m of headlift, so any negative distance from the machine is free until you are once again past 10m of height relative to that machine, is that what you are asking?

McGalleons fluid manual has a useful visual chart for the various head lifts provided

[median heath]

Recipes?

[sudden sluice]

the other guy already told me how to fix it, ty

[sudden sluice]

oh yees

[vapid gorge]

well you have to make a total production that is divisible w/o repeating decimals.

you can jsut round up the last digit one, it'll only stutter every like 1000hrs

[wind spade]

0.33333 * 2.5

[worldly river]

Anybody else do this with their radar? It looks like I got my trigonometry right. You can form an overlapping hexagonal lattice to get perfect coverage using the minimum number of towers by placing them 1732 horizontal meters and 750 vertical meters apart.

[frosty owl]

I've seen at least one Reddit post on the subject, yes

Couldn't tell you how your results compare, as I don't find the subject interesting enough to have read that ^^

[worldly river]

Did a chat search for those magic numbers and was surprised to see nobody else had mentioned them here

[frosty owl]

You're likely to find something on Reddit. Tbh, it's much easier to keep tracks of "who said what" there, due to the sheer difference km volume between Discord chats and Reddit posts

[deft lichen]

woah this is cool, I just placed them in "scenic locations" but ensured they have full coverage

[frosty owl]

Today I was constrained by the 60(ish) items limit for Programmable splitters while making my storage

... I'll have to use 2 of them instead of just one
||Dogshit game, totally unplayable||

[fierce cypress]

😔 the true power of sushi is too strong to allow people to use it

[molten yew]

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why my factory does this sometimes

everything is 1:1, there are no power issues, nothing

it just hiccups like this

[torn plaza]

it's not worth chasing a flat line as trains will make this fluctuate a bunch, what's more important is every constructor/assembler being 100%

[molten yew]

I don't have trains yet

[torn plaza]

(100% efficiency, not clock speed)

[molten yew]

My best guess is that my sinks aren't working 24/7 in case of modular frames or stators

[torn plaza]

yeah sinks also do that

[molten yew]

Yeah everything is on 100%, I just spent the last 45 minutes checking my entire world lol

Fixed!

[torn plaza]

nice

[molten yew]

no idea where I got the decimals from

But I am ignoring that

[rose lichen]

It is possible to produce 20 of each space elevator part + a maxed-out Nuclear Power Plant. This is roughly all the resources you need. All i did was go through every recipe in the game, calculate the best ones (mostly those that save on Sulfur or other 'rare' resource), wrote down the max amount of resources available, calculated 1pm of each of the final space elevator parts, worked out how much iron, coal, copper etc it all needed, after adding together all 4 parts, then i found out the percentage of total resources used (for example, i was using 733 copper out of 28,658 meaning that i was using 1/39 of the total copper. After finding which resource is the most demanding (Bauxite at 1/25), i then times everything by 20 knowing that there was a 100% chance that i will have enough of every item to produce the Space Elevator parts. I didn't times it by 25 because i still wanted some Bauxite to make extra batteries for drones. This calculates everything you'll need in your game so you'll never overproduce or underproduce resources. It's not 100% accurate because i did most of this after work on my phone, but it's pretty close. This will require A LOOOOOOOOT of water though, so be cautious. It's also power-hungry, but you have tones of oil left over for turbo fuel, and that nuclear power plant will produce over 500,000mw (hopefully). Hope this might help some peeps 🙂

[pulsar valve]

why tf didnt you just ask tools?

[rose lichen]

it's more fun this way

[pulsar valve]

...

[oblique hollow]

Some people like doing math you know

[deft lichen]

Mad.
By maxed out nuclear, you mean the 1.19 TW setup?

[rose lichen]

it uses all 2,100 uranium. IDK if that's one of the resource nodes that could end up changing, but it uses it all.

[deft lichen]

there are different max nuclear setups, 1.19 TW uses a specific ratio of U and Pu, afaik max uranium without plutonium is 550 GW

I just read that and thought "no way it consumes 500 GW"

[rose lichen]

it works out to 14pm Plutonium Fuel Cells and 33.6pm Uranium Fuel Rods. The recipe doesn't use beacons though (luckily).

it does end up producing 1,796.2 Uranium Waste, so you need to hope nothing goes wrong 😂

[deft lichen]

waste storage is far less of an issue now with blueprints

[rose lichen]

yeeeeep

[deft lichen]

but that is a lot yeah

[pulsar valve]

how do you clear nuclear waste out of your world?

[primal flicker]

You sink plutonium rods.

[pulsar valve]

so you take waste and make plutonium rods which you sink?

[primal flicker]

That is the only way to automate uranium waste removal.

[pulsar valve]

okay

is it somewhat reasonable?

[rose lichen]

you can use the waste to produce plutonium fuel rods. You could use those rods for power too, but you'll end up with Plutonium waste. this can't be sinked and you can't use it for anything

[primal flicker]

Enough people do it.
I'd rather build permanent storage.

[pulsar valve]

so you think it isnt worth it?

[primal flicker]

Or you can use the plutonium rods and store THAT waste.

[pulsar valve]

I will not do that

[primal flicker]

Same amount of radioactivity, 1/5 the storage requirement, ~80% more power.

[pulsar valve]

ooooh

maybe I do wanna do this

I will have to discuss this wiht my mates

[primal flicker]

It's not a terrible tradeoff. And the radiation exclusion area wouldn't be enormous, from a stack of containers.

[wary tulip]

I prefer to keep as little radiation in the world as possible. Sinking plutonium is the best option for me.

[primal flicker]

Nothing wrong with that. Personally I'm fine with Pu waste storage.

[torn plaza]

i like chilling out and vibing in my factories too much for that, I'd be constantly anxious about dying of radiation or the storage backing up

[languid carbon]

Overcomplicating a sushi belt:
I wanted the sushi belt that groups 2 types of items in groups of three so they travel together just for fun. Basically I have 22.5 of both quartz crystals and silica coming in, and I then use the bottom contraption to limit the output to 20 by forcing it over a 60 belt and then splitting it in three. Then I split each belt in 3 and merge each branch together, before merging the branches again, mixing the branches. I then split it in two and then limiting both sides to 20/min makes sure it's groups of three. Then I pass it through a completely useless series of conveyor elevators, before making it go through a splitter again with different levels of belts, so that when merging they are grouped together next to each other. I don't know quite how it works, but it works. (and yes, this serves no purpose whatsoever)

(not sure if this is the wrong channel, hope it's not)

[primal flicker]

That's why the storage goes on Alcatraz (what I'm calling the big rocks in the SE ocean)

[north ocean]

Looks great! It doesn't have to be practical as long as you had fun making it

[torn plaza]

i didn't even know that was possible but that's cool as hell

[sudden sluice]

https://i.imgur.com/BXMxxh3.jpeg does this pipes also have the 50m lift?

because im using floor holes

so idk if it works like that

[torn plaza]

head lift goes through floor holes

[vapid gorge]

@frosty owl you might care about this

[frosty owl]

Interested in a (possibly) simpler way of obtaining the "pattern" of items you wish for that can be generalized to any pattern you may wish? (Eg: crystal-crystal-silica-silica-silica or crystal-crystal-silica-silica-crystal-silica...)

[sudden sluice]

does a large distance since source of a pipe alter flow rate?

[primal flicker]

No

Properly built and flooded pipes don't care about that.

Distance just increases the startup fill time.

[sudden sluice]

and do junction cross also "cancel" head lift?

[primal flicker]

No. Only pumps, not-full buffers, and valves do that afaik.

[median heath]

Pumps.

[sudden sluice]

ty

[median heath]

Valves don't care, but you shouldn't use them anyway.
Buffers is situational, but you shouldn't use them in 99% of cases anyway.

[sudden sluice]

pipes are so confusing

[median heath]

I genuinely wouldn't say that.

[little elk]

after x thousand of hours they become less confusing 🙂

[sudden sluice]

i counted and its 11 4m walls LIKE WHY does the pipes at the refineries get empty

okay it seems to have fixed itself

[torn plaza]

you pump 1 fluid upwards into the pipe connected to the refinery, the refinery eats it, now the pipe is empty again; this will repeat a bunch until it eventually fills

[vapid gorge]

I'm fairly certain I've linked the 'will work in any situation pipe rules' to you before

[north ocean]

That's a nice looking factory you've got there though, so kudos for that

[thorn cipher]

I know the answer is no, but is there a way to get rid of these trees, if not, I have to change the path of my tracks 😔

[tulip egret]

this is gonna suck ass

[vapid gorge]

all you shared there is the tool, not the plan

[tulip egret]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=4RU63e68Ij7HFmYelAgO

there we go lmao

[vapid gorge]

yeah the oil makes it a bit awk

this is the combo I generally go for https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=UvR0TEUFjowfqhD2QRUK

for a simple start of HMF

for a big one I use the screw recipes and steel srew

[tulip egret]

I like this way more ngl. Nice numbers tbh

[vapid gorge]

well you added a lot of oil products to your which increases complexity. It depends how you want to go about it

for my big HMF plan I use Steel Coated Plates which uses a little plastic but that's it. And wet concrete is glorious on it's own

[tulip egret]

Wet concrete and pure iron/copper/cat is almost a no brainer atp for me

[vapid gorge]

ehhhh depends what you're doing. Pure Iron is pretty niche imo

there's so much of it about.

the other 2 pures are really just for squeezing big systems into spots

[tulip egret]

I just like it because you nearly double iron ore --> ingot production with a small cost of water

[vapid gorge]

the real cost is your life messing with more refineries

[tulip egret]

true lmao. And im horrid with liquids so i struggle sometimes but otherwise definitely good

[vapid gorge]

fluids are easy if you just follow the simple reliable steps

[tulip egret]

Fair. Its more being able to keep them neat for me. I end up making straight noodles lmao

[vapid gorge]

wdym?

[tulip egret]

🍝

[vapid gorge]

eh, if you can get your belts tidy you can get pipes tidy. If you can't get belts tidy then that is asn issue

[sudden sluice]

im going insane

i hate pipes

[sudden sluice]

i think u told me the name but not the link

[vapid gorge]

#1190597884681396296 message

[primal flicker]

Pipes are simple.
And frequently misbehave due to poor assumptions by players.

[sudden sluice]

ty

[vapid gorge]

just a few simple rules

Follow those rules and you will get consistently reliable systems.

[sudden sluice]

abt the manifold loop, does it have to be at the start? even if technically i consume the max of the pipe and by the end it shouldnt be any?

[sudden sluice]

i use no indicators, is that okay btw?

[vapid gorge]

indicators?

[sudden sluice]

thats the name of the style of the pipe

[vapid gorge]

oh the visual thing yeah that doesn't do anything

indicators are useful for trouble shooting mind you

[little elk]

but you can replace pipes without indicators easily later if and where you want indicators

[sudden sluice]

oh yes the 13m3 flowrate

okay

@vapid gorge is this okay?

btw this is my logistical floor

because i dont want the manifold on top

[vapid gorge]

in theory? sure careful about bottom feeding though - I do it but I know what I'm doing.

follow the rest of the ruiles. Don't have the manifold split, or merge manifolds, prefill before turning it completely on

[sudden sluice]

what is the manifold split and merge manifold

didnt understand that

[vapid gorge]

part of the Point A to Point B rules -

don't have a pipe going all over the place - just to it's destination

also in this instance do it like this

it'll give the lower pipe priority

which is likely more important since you're bottom feeding

[sudden sluice]

so put that one down

and change for the point a to b

noted 📝

[vapid gorge]

well point a to point b just means have a set group of machines making fluid that goes to only one production.

but yeah have hte input pipe in the image feed at the higher point

[sudden sluice]

so put it higher? or what

or lower

[vapid gorge]

look at the image - the yellow line is where the input pipe should feed

same with the input feed in the example I showed you, it's higher than the bottom part of the loop that goes to the machines #math-and-meta message

[sudden sluice]

oh that is going to be a problem 🐧

[vapid gorge]

why? you just have to raise 1 pipe a couple meters

[sudden sluice]

but doesnt that mean the "return" pipe should be higher than the input of the machines?

[vapid gorge]

?? what?

[sudden sluice]

im trying so hard to understand

[vapid gorge]

you have a loop - the input is coming in at the TOP of hte loop, the junctions that feed the machines are on the bottom.

[sudden sluice]

OHHHHHHH

brain understood

[vapid gorge]

This is especially important since you're bottom feeding

bottom feeding is not generally recommended since it's more liable to cause issues

but you can get it to work if you're careful

For example this is basically the same thing but feeding machines above the loop. Essentially what you're doing now

[sudden sluice]

do i have to connect EVERY junction of every machine?

wait, read ur message

brain usage

[vapid gorge]

Milo pls, why did you connect it lower

[sudden sluice]

XD

[vapid gorge]

you can't treat pipes like belts and just slap them down, especially when feeding from below

first fixt that then ask a question

[sudden sluice]

basically copied it

[vapid gorge]

I have no idea what this is or what it's for.

where is the red pipe going?

I'm gonna start assuming you're trolling me soon though

[sudden sluice]

im nooot

let me send a new pic

pipe on the left is where crude oil comes from

pipes going up are for machines

i copied the image u sended

[vapid gorge]

ok cool this pipe is exactly what you need

I don't know why you have this one going up and down and up

or was that the other pic but only partially made?

[sudden sluice]

indeed

[vapid gorge]

ok that makes much more sense. So yes, 2 thumbs up

👍 👍

[sudden sluice]

ok now im remaking the path of the pipes to make the 3 not go in weird ways and go point a to b

[vapid gorge]

well as long as Point A to Point B is just one pipe that isn't splitting or merging you can do just about anything you like to it as long as the manifold is fed like it is now

like, it'll be simpler if you make the pipe simple and straigth forward, and I recommend that, but having a wiggly middle pipe doesn't generally cause issues if you do the rest carefuly

[sudden sluice]

this is going to be a pain but now i have to do that for the HOR output/input FUEL output and input for every fuel gen

i dont have the energy for that today

💤

[vapid gorge]

You'll get there 🙂

even if you don't get it working right stuttering power isn't the worst and it's practice for later 🙂

[languid carbon]

I mean, sure, why not. This was mostly experimenting with overcomplicating though

[vapid gorge]

I suspect what Ven is talking about is how he managed to feed a single sushi balanced belt into manufacturers

[languid carbon]

Ahh I see. Well for my case it doesn't matter whatsoever. Theres a smart splitter at the end that splits it again into bins and recycles the overflow

[vapid gorge]

it's a pretty cool trick, lot of work I imagine though https://youtu.be/3gsYsgR-wE8?t=412

[frosty owl]

Actually no, just something about how to make any "item pattern" easily 😅 😆
But thanks for the promo nonetheless 🤣
(I'll need to have more tipying time than I have now though)

[sudden sluice]

btw would i need to do the loop for outputs?

im merging some outputs because some outputs feed x number of machines

[vapid gorge]

no, outputs don't need a loop

[sudden sluice]

ty, btw do u sleep? good morning lol

[vapid gorge]

I'm about to head to bed now. Australia time 🙂

so goodnight 😛

[sudden sluice]

gn

[sudden sluice]

why does this happens??

it does like 1

wait there was a mini conveyor glitched inside

[north ocean]

Do you place those on an already existing conveyor belt? That does tend to leave a strip in the space inside the splitter or merger, it's better to put those in place without a conveyor belt in the way and then connect belts to it after

[sudden sluice]

ty, but i needed to do it in the bad way bc it is on the air

[north ocean]

Yeah that's tricky, I have long wished those would snap to the ceiling but you might try stacking the splitter/merger and removing the stack under the height you desire. That method doesn't always get what you need but it can help

Another work-around to eliminate that strip is to place the splitter/merger where you wanted on the belt then deleting it and snapping a replacement to one end of the conveyor you just broke into two pieces, you'll need to replace the section of conveyor belt on the other side as the splitter/merger will only recognize the belt you snapped it to but you'll lose that strip in the middle that can trip you up when you upgrade your belts

[sudden sluice]

i love how even my machines are making 600 fuel/min my machines still flicker

lovely

[sudden sluice]

i hate pipes

[weary lake]

hey guys,
I got a mk. 3 caterium miner, which produces 1200 caterium p/min. mk. 5 belts only go up to 780 items p/min. How can I use the 1200 caterium p/min?

[torn plaza]

right now you cannot

1.0 apparently has a solution for this, but they won't tell us what it is

[weary lake]

okay ty

[sudden sluice]

@vapid gorge is that pump okay? because it seems that when the pipe is large it doesnt fill the pipes in the next floor

like it should be constant 600m3 fuel/min flowrate

but its not 😡

[oblique hollow]

oh dear god

this is about the worst case you can have

with mk 2 pipes

[oblique hollow]

heres a tip: connect a pipe here and connect the second part to the other end of the pipeline

so it forms a loop

this is probably your only hope of it working without a rebuild

[sudden sluice]

that's what the top one is for, for the loop

[oblique hollow]

where does that connect to

dont tell me you try to push 600 through the top one too

[north ocean]

Would downgrading the pipes that feed directly into the generators to Mk1 help balance the flow?

[oblique hollow]

theres a chance but its not guaranteed

however from experience it does tend to act a lot nicer if you do

[sudden sluice]

let me send the pic of the whole network

sorry i was occupied

oh my god.

i just realized the fuel output is 500m3 per pipe

........

wait no

i just connected the pipes wrong i do max out the pipes

two pipes at 600 and 1 at 400

[sudden sluice]

fixed everything

thank god, now im producing like 20k MW

[wind spade]

GW, not kMW

[sudden sluice]

ohyes

[vapid gorge]

the pump is fine I don't see how the top is a loop

[primal flicker]

I don't see what you marked...

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure wher ethe loop is coming into it as I can't see the rest of where the bottom/top pipe is going

[primal flicker]

Yeah, a wide angle from the opposite side would help...

[sudden sluice]

I already fixed it all, ty

[sudden sluice]

i had to rework all pipes lol

[solid warren]

shouldnt that be 5 water instead of 5000?

[sudden sluice]

lmao 💀

[sand epoch]

Naa

[solid warren]

mh ok so white text is in liter and orange text is in cubic meter

[sudden sluice]

funny

[raven eagle]

Yes

Must be bugged

[median heath]

What is the standard unit of measurement for liquid volume that every country other than the United States uses?

[dense cave]

cups

[median heath]

...

[true junco]

Liters. How many liters in a cubic meter? 1000. The "glitch" is a units error. the display needs to indicate Liters, clearly. 😆

Or just start calling it in kL from now on. Lol

[wind spade]

That's in liters, not m3

[frosty owl]

Sorry for the late answer, I forgot 😅

The basic idea is: how to make any sequence of items on a belt? A simple and generic way to approach this can be using "reversed" balancers (I'll leave the order for later) that make use of full belts and round-Robin mechanics to make sure the output belt always get the same item pattern. For instance, let's take a pattern of 1 quartz and 3 silica:

1. we sum all items involved in one repetition of the pattern: 1+3 = 4.
2. We round to the closest number one can load-balance to (eg: 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12...): 4.
3. We imagine a balancer that has that many equal outputs: 3 splitters can suffice.
4. We "invert" said balancer, flipping the belt direction and switching splitters for mergers: now we have 3 mergers. Optimization is possible (eg: it can be reduced to 2 mergers in this case)
5. We connect a full belt of input items to each of the inputs created (what were the outputs for the prior balancer). In this case it would be one belt of quartz and 3 belts of silica, so merging quartz+silica, silica+silica (can be optimized away) and finally: quartz+silica+silica+silica <- the pattern we wanted

Changing the order in which the belts are connected to the mergers can change the order of the items in the pattern (eg: Silica-Quartz-Silica-Silica or Silica-Silica-Quartz-Silica...). Loopbacks can be used too, and this allows to implement all possible splits/patterns like: Silica-Quartz-Rubber-Quartz-Silical can be obtained inverting a 1-to-5 balancer (including loop back) and connecting that to 5 input belts

[languid carbon]

Very interesting. Will have to try sometime

[frosty owl]

If you wish for more details or a different explanation method, there is a reddit post with some pictures on the subject (called "Saturated Sushi Belts" iirc)

[median heath]

It's recommended to use multiples of 81.

[torn plaza]

I chose random and awkward numbers to show the tools can handle any need

[median heath]

@inner lava

Link to actual tab: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=BmpQDR9BnQDUbKgd18sV

Zero byproduct to worry about.

[torn plaza]

if you insist on not using residual, you get this

which you will see uses more oil

this is why the tools will put in the residual recipes

[inner lava]

But, residual was never a part of the problem. It's recycled and recycled. Kick-started with some rubber and plastic from before, and the supplying each other.

[median heath]

Does the tab I linked help, or was there a key part I missed from not seeing the original question?

[inner lava]

Original post:

'Okay, I'm at my wits end. Please help.

I'm trying to make a "Recycle Station".
Basically you pump oil into refineries, make fuel and dump the resin, then use refineries to make Recycled Rubber and Recycled Plastic, feeding each other the resources needed to keep the process going.
Calculator sadly can't help with the math, since it needs either plastic or rubber to be made before the process can start.
But since you can just load the refineries with one stack of plastic or rubber each, you can kick-start the process.

Now to the problem, I've been calculating how much I need of both to fuel my big production of everything else, but every equation ends up in different numbers...
Anyone done something similar and know how to think around this?'

[median heath]

You have a set goal and said goal keeps returning different amounts?

[inner lava]

No, I'm lost in how to calculate how much oil, fuel and refineries I need to make the plastic and rubber I need for my factory production, plus what's needed for the machines to feed them selfs, since the amount of machines keep increasing.

That's why I'm asking for help, I think I'm doing the calculations wrong.

[median heath]

since the amount of machines keep increasing.

Why?

[inner lava]

I need refineries to make plastic and rubber for the production.
Then I need refineries for the plastic and rubber FOR the plastic and rubber.
And using the calculator to my best knowledge, that sadly can't calculate recycled + recycled, I end up with different numbers depending on if I try one at a time, or none and try to calculate on my own.

[median heath]

I am confused as to how this does not solve that?
Shows all buildings involved in the numbers you specified (slightly altered to make the building count cleaner).

[wind spade]

Tools can calculate it. Calculator can't

[inner lava]

Because you keep using Residual recipes.

[wind spade]

That's to get rid of ploymer resin

[median heath]

Which is a problem because...?

The point of the Recycled Loop is absolutely zero byproduct.

[little elk]

This is the alternative. Makes for a happy awesome sink.

[median heath]

If you remove Residual Rubber, you remove this advantage.

[inner lava]

Please explain how, I can't seem.to find a way to do it.

[little elk]

Here.

[wind spade]

Select all alts, select rubber or plastic (or both) for poroduction, select how much

[little elk]

Or choose "max" and define input

[inner lava]

Because that's not what I'm asking about.
I'm asking if anyone else has done a recycle station the way I described and could help with the math.

[little elk]

From what I understood of your description, the answer was provided

[torn plaza]

I have three separate recycled rubber/recycled plastic systems

[little elk]

Oh you want to get more our of it then possible? Then that is not possible. Either tool shows you the math

[torn plaza]

push this button

[median heath]

I have legit not been this confused since the last time my fiancée tried to describe what she was actually upset about one time...

[inner lava]

"Basically you pump oil into refineries, make fuel and dump the resin, then use refineries to make Recycled Rubber and Recycled Plastic, feeding each other the resources needed to keep the process going."

What part about this is so confusing?

[median heath]

Someone else gave you the solution to this a while ago.

It's also just a waste of resources to go about it that way.

[torn plaza]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=JuZ9kPOT4zITpJJq3ifJ

I don't actually advise that you build it this way, with sinking resin

[little elk]

Feeding each other to keep the process going.
Sounds like you want more out of it than possible?
If you mean I want to have 600 crude oil input and then I want to partially process the first refinery and then all the byproduct as far as possible before the next refinery and loop that somehow

[torn plaza]

but the tools will let you do this

[median heath]

Most possible is 1:3 conversion using the Recycled Loop.

If you deviate from that you're just choosing to have less.

[little elk]

There would be no advantage to this approach compared to refining all at the start and the taking care of the products. Comes out to the same in the end

[torn plaza]

I'm getting on a train so my replies will be limited from here on out

[median heath]

Reliable public train transport? How un-American.

[little elk]

I think you can process everything in step 1and then take care of byproduct a,B
The normal way basically.

Or you could think there is some benefit to chaining it all and only partially doing a step 1.1 and taking care of A1 and B1 in step 1.2

[median heath]

Now you're just randomly adding labels to things.

[little elk]

The thing about that idea is you can either use 100% clock or 10% clock. Making it completely unreasonable

Could make for a good design idea. But not practical

[torn plaza]

lmao UK public transport so uh, no

[little elk]

I just read the specifics or the initial request

[little elk]

.

Keeping the loop going is just not how it works. There is no real loop

[inner lava]

I'm not looking the BEST way to go about this, I was asking if anyone had done anything like what I was explaining.
I don't care about optimizing at all. I just wanted some math help, and so far I don't understand how the answers so far have helped with that.

I'm trying to figure out the tool thing Ryzen sent now.

[median heath]

If you can't look at the picture from Tools that I made and see the Loop. Idk what to tell you 🤷‍♂️

[little elk]

Tools is correct. Never doubted it.

[torn plaza]

@inner lava for satisfactory tools, which we refer to as "tools", you just enter how much of a thing you want, select which alt recipes you have unlocked, and it will do the rest

this is also why we're acting a little confused because our answer really is "use tools it'll solve your problems"

[little elk]

There is a way to approach this, that works with what was originally described by Joker. It is not really representable as a complete function in tools. But a single step can be shown in tools

But I was warning him that it is only practical for a design reason. Not for good factory planing

[inner lava]

I'm trying to ad and remove recipes, but I just can't seem to fin what to pick and not pick for it to make a "nothing but recycled" production.
It just keeps telling me it's missing materials.

[torn plaza]

is the one I linked not what you were looking for

[inner lava]

I don't care about optimizing.

[little elk]

yours should be what he was refering to

[torn plaza]

looks like this to me

[little elk]

Did you want to build a cascade like effect only partially using the oil in each step?

[inner lava]

THIS!!
This is what I'm trying to make! But it just won't happen!
I must be using tools wrong, because that's now what I was seeing.

[torn plaza]

weird

[torn plaza]

this link is precisely that

[little elk]

You need to select the correct recipes for it.

[torn plaza]

my link has the recipes selected

[little elk]

Which was one of the first answers. Also why we were so confused.

And then greeny told you how to do it.

[torn plaza]

all I did is enable all alternates, scroll past the alternates to the default recipes, and disable the residual rubber and plastic

[little elk]

And you wanted something else and we were all confused due to that trying to figure out what you want

[inner lava]

I don't know why, but now it shows up.
I could have missed it among all the replies. I'm sorry, I'll take the fault.

[torn plaza]

it's cool my dude, if you haven't used tools before it can be overwhelming

but now you're equipped to plan any factory you want

[inner lava]

Never seen it before, so was a bit confusing to be true.

[little elk]

It is gonna be a good companion;-)

[torn plaza]

also for future reference, if you want to compartmentalize factories (add in resources you're making elsewhere), go to the "Items, Input" tab and use this button

so you can start a new factory with 750 plastic and 150 rubber input

[inner lava]

Darn, there is a lot to learn...

[torn plaza]

you'll get it

[inner lava]

Many thanks, really.
Was so hard trying to explain what I wanted when other tried to optimize past the original idea.

Thinking of just skipping the Diluted step, and just making fuel direct to plastic and rubber.
Less machines needed.

[silent sphinx]

It never hurts to have a stock of plastic and rubber in different places.

[sudden sluice]

ok now i fixed the other pipes but now the red one isnt getting filled

funny

[little elk]

reconnect it

if it does not get filled at all, it very likely snapped to something that it was not supposed to snap to or somehow failed.

if it only partially gets filled or slowly you might have another problem

[sudden sluice]

this

every other pipe gets filled correctly

and the ratios of HOR to fuel are correct

[oblique hollow]

slap a pump onto it

the other pipes have the bonus of having a pump that prevents backflow

but the red pipe has the option of being drained by the purple pump

because it can flow back into the junction

[vapid gorge]

there is a pump on the main branch already?

[oblique hollow]

which splits into a lower part with another pump and a vertical part
Guess which one gets priority due to gravity

[vapid gorge]

Oh sure but it's fed from to hte top one so the priority goes to the lower where it bottom feeds. It's essentially an exact copy of my bottom feed design

should work w/o either of the pumps tbh

[wind spade]

@crisp lava see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe picking

[crisp lava]

thonks

[violet zealot]

This is set to correct ratio how to simplify cause it long time to have perfect ratios on everything

[wind spade]

yeah, people usually just use manifolds

--S--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |  |

or they clock machines to match input and output

[violet zealot]

Wish I knew this before doing this shit I spent so much time to perfect it lol

[wind spade]

you're not first and definitely not last person to do this, don't worry 🙂

[supple belfry]

This is one of the earlier problems the game throws at you. Once you learn it, it sticks.

[wind spade]

@harsh tusk see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe picking

[sudden sluice]

Now to do micro(services)factories

[supple spire]

shes drinkin

new rubber and plastic factory

and it makes fuel as a byproduct

[wind spade]

is that diluted packaged fuel?

[supple spire]

heavy residue

its only a byproduct so im not too fussed

and it still makes 200 a min

[wind spade]

why the buffer? 🤔

(also you can convert it to coke and have extra power, or sink it, or make into steel)

[supple spire]

just in case i overflow on the plastic or rubber the fuel doesnt stop

[supple spire]

nothing left to buy in the sink

and i dont need steel

[wind spade]

then power 🙂

[supple spire]

i cant yet

[wind spade]

why not?

[supple spire]

i dont have phase 3 yet

[wind spade]

coke goes into coal generators

[supple spire]

oh

im just gonna do the phase 3 and just put it into the fuel generators

[torn plaza]

forward thinking

[cinder silo]

Fuel gens are a good idea.

[sudden sluice]

Okay this is making me go crazy, i have24 refineries (250%) making HOR so 2400 per minute, divided into 4 pipes that concentrate 6 refineries that are making HOR into 1 pipe that goes into 4 (16 in total) refineries (250%) making fuel and then 6 refinery outputs merge into 1 pipe except the last 4 that go into 1 pipe, so two 6 refineries into 1 pipe each and one 4 refineries into 1 pipe

and then the 6 fuel 20 fuel gens at 250%

but as you can see the refineries flash yellow sometimes

and idk why because i already put every machine on standby, waited for pipes to fill and start it but the pipes get empty

so my power gen is always with spikes of energy prod

[cinder silo]

2600?

[cinder silo]

600 x 4 = 2400, if you have 2600, you need a fifth pipe.

[sudden sluice]

?

mb

its 2400 yes, 24 refineries

[cinder silo]

You stated here you have 2600 HOR in 4 pipes, it won't go.

[cinder silo]

Ahh ok.

[sudden sluice]

ohh i think its a pump problem

i think i fixed it

[cinder silo]

What was the fault?

[open mango]

When a (2nd) plan speaks by itself (better than the 1st one) ..

[sudden sluice]

the pumps i think

[vapid gorge]

did you turn off some of the gens to make sure everything was flooded first ?

[sudden sluice]

yes, i fixed it, it was a height problem

[median heath]

It's solely about resource-efficiency.

That's why you have to turn some stuff off to get it to do certain things.

[vapid gorge]

and there's different weights to the value of resources iirc

It's why when I use the tool I almost solely swap recipes rather than let it decide which to use. I like to control what resource types are used, it helps with planning factory locations

[median heath]

There are only different weights if you decide there are different weights.

[opal locust]

A couple of questions. I've made it to Phase 3 and ready to setup an initial oil facility for rubber/plastic. 1) Should I go with the nodes to the west or southwest? 2) If west, should I overclock to get 300 units of oil/minute or stick to 240? 3) If southwest, is the pond to the west of it enough water for the coal generators I'll have to setup? 4) How should I route power lines to these oil fields?

[vapid gorge]

go with your gut and assume that whatever you're building now won't mesh with any final goals you want to create in the future.

[opal locust]

I know that, I'm just having to come to terms with Phase 3 and beyond having higher logistical requirements

So if I go with the west, overclock the normal node to 150% so I get a line of 300 between the 3 nodes. That's 100 Plastic and Rubber per minute, the Residue being turned into 450 Petroleum Coke per minute, which is enough for 18 coal generators?

[vapid gorge]

if that's how you want to go? I tend ot sink the coke early on for more points and coupons.

and it's less that you'll have higher logistical requirements, though you will, but it's more that only after having some experience and unlockign all the parts, all the recipes, will you have an idea of what you actually want to make

and if you like sand box games your style will probably change a couple times while you learn

[opal locust]

well I'm running up against my current power grid capacity and like to use the rubber/plastic plant as an extra source of power until I get to fuel generators

[vapid gorge]

I'd aim to find 3-4 coal nodes next to water and just max out the power from it 48-64 coal gens is not a silly amount

[opal locust]

well if you look in the southeast of my image I have a coal generator plant setup using the nodes from the beach

[vapid gorge]

whenever you get a better belt or miner? jsut expand it

ah yeah, overclock to your belt limit and build 🙂

[opal locust]

I'd have to rebuild that to take advantage of potentially more power there

[vapid gorge]

why? make another floor, or build to the side

you might have to rejig the belts at the worst

[opal locust]

I don't like pumping water, I like to keep the coal generators near surface level

[vapid gorge]

I mean... sure? build sidways then

having 1 pump per floor generally isn't an issue though and you'll have to manage fluids sooner or later

[median heath]

Build underwater.
Problem solved.

[opal locust]

if I swap those out for mk2 miners that gives me 2 lines of 240 and I could double the generators from 16 to 32

just expand the line of generators north and south of the initial 16

[violet zealot]

Bruh my offline char is different how to sync? Bro is chillin

[wind spade]

either restart the game and verify you're logged in before starting the game or just kill the body or play normally

[austere cape]

I have been stuck for a while, I have 2 lines of 5, but I need 1 line of 2 and 1 line of 8, I don't have a smart splitter/programmable splitter

[fierce ruin]

is manifold a valid option for you?

[austere cape]

what is manifold

[fierce ruin]

I mean, if you want to split perfectly for your own reasons, you can balance it. But if you split the main line in two lines going into next production step, then they will balance themselves

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Manifold

[austere cape]

oh

thanks man, I will try this out

this is actually really helpful, thank you!

[fierce ruin]

You're welcome!

[austere cape]

this is so helpful that now I just need to redo a large chunk of this factory...

[fierce ruin]

i wasn't aware of manifolds for a good chunk of my gameplay and it's really life-changing

[harsh tusk]

I have 2 mk2 miners providing a 8-generator manifold and they randomly pop in and out of making elec

Well, 2 8-gen manifolds

[oblique hollow]

make sure the mk 2 belts are actually full

[harsh tusk]

!wikisearch coal_generator

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=coal_generator

[harsh tusk]

I'm using the bottom setup

[vapid gorge]

why redo it? just go up the tiers you'll prob want to change things up as you go

[wind spade]

Just keep it and make new

[odd dust]

I normally do the top, I did the bottom variant once and the water didn't flow right until it did and I don't know why

[vapid gorge]

can't tell you w/o images and more info

pipes are simple once you know the rules, but really easy to mess up if you don't

[heady scarab]

Unfortunately Petroleum Coke is the worst fuel for coal generators (each generator needs 25 pet-coke per min, versus 15 coal). So I'm just throwing some options out. Down where your existing coal plant is at, based on the picture, you have a pure sulfur node located nearby. If you have the compacted coal recipe, you could use that and roughly double the number of coal generators you have at that location. I don't know if you overclocked the coal miners there, so you'll have to run the numbers to see how many coal generators you can add. As for the oil nodes, packaged diluted fuel alternate recipe basically creates three times the amount of fuel than the default fuel recipe. If you have that alternate recipe, then a fuel generator site should be a high priority. A single pure crude oil node running at 540/min can fuel an 18,000MW fuel generator site with the packaged diluted fuel recipe. So you can maybe look further west to the Spire Coast as there are a lot of oil nodes there for both your power production and plastic/rubber. If you use the recycled rubber and recycled plastic alternate recipe, you can look at some videos by Moo on YouTube to create a plant to generate 780 plastic/min and 810 rubber/min. He also has two videos on creating 18,000MW fuel generator sites as well.

Yeah, game logic. Packaged diluted fuel recipe, get three times the amount of fuel.... just add water.

[opal locust]

well for now what was 16 coal generators is now 32 which has doubled my power output

all I did was drop mk2 miners on the existing coal nodes and upgraded all the belts

as for diluted fuel, I'm still at the start of phase 3, I need to setup an initial oil production plant before I go crazy with fuel generators

[heady scarab]

Ah yes, in that case I have a picture of a starter plastic/rubber with fuel generators and 4 packaged fuel/min. Give me a few minutes and I'll post it.

[opal locust]

I couldn't do the compacted coal option because that sulfur node is fueling a black powder station at my base

[heady scarab]

Single pure crude oil node producing 300/min. 5 plastic refineries producing 100 plastic/min with heavy oil residue byproduct. Another 5 producing 100 rubber/min with heavy oil residue byproduct. 3 refineries taking the heavy oil residue to produce 100 fuel/min. 8 fuel generators consuming 96 fuel/min leaving 4 fuel/min being sent to a packager to create packaged fuel.

just tap some plastic from your 100 plastic/min to create the empty canisters for the packaged fuel.

Good plastic/rubber starter plant. It gives power and some packaged fuel to get you started. Bonus is, once you have other fuel generators up and running you can tear these fuel gens down and set your packager to create 100 packaged fuel/min.

[median heath]

Odd definition of "starter" given you cannot use half of this at the start of Plastic/Rubber.

[heady scarab]

Why not? This was literally my first plastic/rubber plant.

[median heath]

Most obviously, because you don't have access to Fuel Gens at the start.

Secondly, you don't have access to Packagers.

[heady scarab]

Well true, I had to use fluid buffers at first in place of the fuel generators

[median heath]

Hence, odd definition of "starter".

[heady scarab]

Got the plastic/rubber, did the milestones, came back and put the fuel gens in later.

[median heath]

Same thing, 100/min of each.

Can be built immediately and does not rely on any other milestones.

300 Oil

5 Rubber Refineries @ 100%
5 Plastic Refineries @ 100%

Byproduct HOR routed to
4 Coke Refineries @ 93.75%
Feeds 18 Coal Gens with no waste.

Cost to run: ~600 MW
Produces: 1350 MW

[wind spade]

How can you compare coke and coal lol

[median heath]

Unfortunately Petroleum Coke is the worst fuel for coal generators

This is objectively false.

1 Oil = 4 Coke

Coal Gen burn rates equate to Coal @ 15/min, but Oil at 6.25/min

Literally any form of power derived from Oil is an ugrade from Coal, which is intentional.

[opal locust]

my plan was to use these 3 oil nodes and overclock the normal to 150% so it gives me a line of 300 oil/minute. I guess the real question is where do I set it up? a lot of spire coast is very cramped and awkward to build around so it feels like I need to feed things north out into the open water.

[median heath]

Spire Coast is where most people build oil rig platforms, yes.

[opal locust]

I guess my question is how to I connect it to my stuff in dune desert to the east? do I build a foundation path from that little inlet that feeds into the ocean? or do I work south from the canyon?

[median heath]

do I build a foundation path

The answer to this is always "no"

[heady scarab]

Yeah, plenty of space to build out over water. Getting the stuff to dune desert is a bit more trickier. Railway would be best, but that may prove difficult to manage early on. You could look at some road blueprints or create your own, but that would be the same as laying foundations. And you'll need to unlock the transportation milestone for tractor/trucks. Most people I've seen go this route early game and then replace with railways later.

Loading a truck up with buildable material to build the roads comes in handy. A lot of the blueprints made by others include street lights. They look nice but the hookup is tedious. If you use someone else's road blueprint you could always modify them and remove the street lights.

[deft lichen]

Why road blueprints, especially in contrast to railways?

Basically the only advantage trucks have over trains is that you don't need to build the infrastructure to connect stations (and the station lockout, not relevant)

[heady scarab]

Roads is just concrete for the most part. As I said, railway would be best but depends if he has the factories setup to support building that.

[primal flicker]

Belts and pipelines ftw.

[heady scarab]

Quick, dirty, gets the job done. 😄

[primal flicker]

I would tend to build over the water there, myself. But nothing stands in the way of a single Mk2 pipe carrying the oil wherever. (I would use 450 m³/min, results in fewer rounding/underclock errors.) Could be worth piping the crude east or south, and building the factory somewhere more accessible.

[primal flicker]

[wind spade]

well at least it will be easy build

[primal flicker]

That part builds itself!

[little elk]

very satisfactory

[torn plaza]

floating points are evil

[queen slate]

Oooh i already have that one, it's so good!

[sonic tundra]

does anyone have a phase 3 factory?

[vapid gorge]

what is a phase 3 factory?

[sonic tundra]

a factory that produceses phase 3 items

like versatile framework

[vapid gorge]

I don't bother automating space parts going up the tiers, I just put items in boxes and feed a few machines

I think most people do that

[sonic tundra]

yo

thx for the idea

[full trout]

no definatly not

[vapid gorge]

generally talking to people on the server for a number of years? yes they seem to

I don't care if you do or not

[median heath]

Yes, definitely.

[fierce ruin]

does anyone know of a good guide to path signals/block signals? I've been trying to crack it for a couple days now and I think I have a basic understanding of how they work but I can't seem to get them to work specifically for what I need.

[wind spade]

any specific case you want to solve?

[fierce ruin]

it's hard to explain without a diagram and I'm on my phone

I'll try and see if u understand, if not I'll take screenshots once home

basically, I have a 4 way and a 3 way intersection next to eachother. both of them have inbound and outbound rails (none of them are bidirectional).

The T cross uses an x design (the incoming and outgoing tracks and cross into eachother at this point) so any train coming from any direction can turn any way they want.

The 4 way has a similar design, with x Crosses before the intersection and turns attaching the corners of each track at the intersection

I'll draw it on some paper

[wind spade]

usually easiest solution is "path on entry, block on exit"

[wind spade]

for 4-way junction this is simpler

same for 3-way, just without the 4th rail

[fierce ruin]

I tried that and it wasn't working very well

[fierce ruin]

Same with this design

[wind spade]

that should work better than yours

[wind spade]

wdym "wasn't working well"?

[fierce ruin]

bunch of signaling errors with the trajns

[wind spade]

what errors? 🤔

[fierce ruin]

the trains just spat back signaling errors idk how to view it specificallt

[wind spade]

train can only pass signal in the direction the signal is facing

[fierce ruin]

the dark ones are my path signals, the not dark ones are block signals. I may have fucked up the placement on this page but in the actual track the path signals are all facing in and the block signals are all facing out on the outer edge of the track (by this I mean they're facing in/out on the outside of the track)

I get the feeling that cross at the middle is the issue but I've tried making it a signal cross or removing the signals entirely such that it's treated as one big junction but it hasn't worked

Not signal cross

[wind spade]

the junction I sent above should be better (less space used)

[fierce ruin]

Single cross

[fierce ruin]

how should I place the signals for it? I tried a junction like that for the 4 way, but kept the three way the same and still got signal errors

[wind spade]

same as you do for yours - path on entry, block on exit

[fierce ruin]

should that part at the center with 2 signals next to eachother remain the same?

[wind spade]

if it's really close, I'd just remove them

but if a train can fit in there, then keep it

[fierce ruin]

from intersection to intersection id say it's roughly 30 metres

[fierce ruin]

does this look right? Signals would go around where the arrows are, also I'm unsure if I should put 2 sets in the centre or just one

[wind spade]

one signal makes almost no sense, either two or none

[fierce ruin]

do two and none perform the same purpose? my understanding is that none would be better because it may cause more congestion to have the two there

[wind spade]

two signals mean that a train can stop there

you should only place block signals where you're fine with train stopping

[fierce ruin]

ah ok

[fierce ruin]

would any issues be caused by not putting any there?

[wind spade]

not really

and if you need more throughput, you can always do non-crossing junction

[fierce ruin]

most of the trains in the region are passing through those two intersections (probably about 8 or 9 trains by the time I've tapped everything in the region)

[stone jetty]

I'm a bit reluctant to do a 100% factory before 1.0 for recipe changes. But am more worried about my set up for resource changes. I'm still building the mega drone hub. Although will always welcome more battier. I need ALL of them. Still no word on potential final resource count or what's happening with Pure nodes on 250% over clock?

[wind spade]

no, and we most likely won't have word on it pre-release

and personally I'd recommend 1.0 restart anyway

[stone jetty]

I don't want to restart this. I only have uranium and Nitrogen to hook up. It collects all reources at 100%. 3 drone ports (Always one drone on both ends) for Pure, 2 for normal and 1 for impure. Drones struggle to reliably take 300+ items per minute. Also one drone port atop every nodes tower to feed the other drones batteries. I'm up to 2160 drone ports. But have yet to build a hub for that said node battery point. So plus however many resource nodes are in the game. As well as +1 per oil and nitro well.

I'm still hooking up all the none flying drones

[wind spade]

many factories would probably have to be rebuilt anyway, together with new stuff and story stuff, all of it is better to experience from start imo

[stone jetty]

True, but we'll have to wait and see. Just makes it feel pointless to work on this if It'll be reset. I'm not close to finished with it yet. I am still hooking up drones.

[wind spade]

technically all "work on game" is pointless, you'll eventually just abandon the save (or the game) 😄

[stone jetty]

deep and true XD

[torn plaza]

I've spent too long making stuff look nice to start from scratch honestly, would rather modify my factories to cope with the changes

which I have accepted will be a ballache

[stone jetty]

So this MDH (Mega drone Hub) Can't run all of it and be fed juicy batteries. I need more Bauxite

[stone jetty]

Yae I'd rather modify. I can always add more drones for more resources at this point.

[torn plaza]

my current save is a glorious mess of clashing build styles and architecture, but it's my mess

if I start from scratch it will be better but it won't have the same character

[stone jetty]

One day I'll have to check all potentally 2500 (Too tired to check number of nodes, plus still calculating nitrogen and stuff like SAM ore) once they've run for a while and get a accurate number on the battery consumtion. Or can I use the calculator. O please tell me i can. That would be a god send XD

[stone jetty]

The left over bits of abandoned buildings and the Close enough placements and imperfections within my world as I scrap whole areas and rebuilt them better. I know how you feel.

Once the MDH is fully hooked up, then I might screen shot it for the design n architechure channel. But funtion comes first for me XD

That and my game already doesn't like what i'm doing XD

I did all of this because some youtuber said drones were fast but neash. How you couldn't use them to collect everything. And i took that personally XD The math says, as long as I turn off/stop all collection and 100% batteries. Then switch and 100% power (Nuclear) And store the excess power. Then any time left over between those two things can be used to collect everything and store it away for use outside of battery saving time. I haven't done the math. But If i focus on only 100% batteries, then i'll make more then I use. So this all should work. I just don't know how well. O the math to figure that out. As of now its 4560/min battery productid - X battery used (For only resources to make battery) With a time limit of stored power from power generating time Y (Excess - production of fuel and collection's power use)

I don't know X and Y

[teal tiger]

somehow the lifts are messing with my factory

down there u can see that my belts are overfilled

but like here at the top it barely manages to keep up

just a lift inbetween

[wind spade]

is the lift proper tier? did you upgrade any of the belts or lifts?

[teal tiger]

both are mk2

[wind spade]

there's a possibility that there's small piece of mk1 belt in the lift, try removing it and see if it's there

[teal tiger]

ur a g bro

thanks

[wind spade]

this often happens if you upgrade belts or lifts

[teal tiger]

was just dumb of me to not think about this lol

but thanks

[fierce ruin]

just tried this, got nowhere with it. tried with both 2 signals at the center and no signals at the center, still getting sig errors from both of the trains currently on the route, any ideas?

[wind spade]

show screenshots

[fierce ruin]

grabbing some now

@wind spade idk why that ones spitting out an error other than the fact that theres no track behind it (ive yet to expand the rail any father)

[wind spade]

what the error is?

and yeah if there's no end of the track, signals will give errors

[fierce ruin]

no exit signal

that shouldnt have an affect anyways since no trains use that part of the track

*effect

this is where one train is stuck, the other train is down at its own station stuck by the same signaling error

the error spat back by the train in this screenshot is that the trains waiting too long at the signal and that there may be an error

hold up im trying something

nope still nothing 😭

[wind spade]

is that the only error?

try connecting the tracks with a loop or something so that the signal has exit signal

[fierce ruin]

yea

[fierce ruin]

didnt work

its the entire T cross thats locked up, the intersection seems to work fine

[wind spade]

the signal still has error?

[fierce ruin]

no, the signals fine, but the trains are still non functiona;

sorry bad wording

[wind spade]

what does the train say?

[fierce ruin]

im gonna go check and make sure the other train is on the right track

[median heath]

🎶 WHAT DOES THE TRAIN SAY 🎶

[fierce ruin]

the first train just gets stopped by signals and eventually errors out, the other one says it cant reach its next station due to a signal error

i couldve put the other train on the wrong end of the track maybe

[wind spade]

check that, then also how are the stations placed?

[fierce ruin]

the stations are placed fine i checked them a while ago to make sure

oop i think i found the problem

train 2 is travelling on the wrong side of the track

gonna run through the track now and see if that fixed it

[versed violet]

I dare to suggest "Tap All Nodes Challenge" mod, you might find it useful.

[fierce ruin]

@wind spade i believe its fixed now, thank you for putting up with my stupidity

[stone jetty]

What is that?

[versed violet]

Adds ingame counter displaying how many resource nodes you built miner on. You are trying to mine and process all the resources on the map, correct?

[torn plaza]

just put a sink on every node, mission complete

[stone jetty]

Yes, I just use the website to check. I have all of them with miners.

[fringe pawn]

If this is fed 6 RIPs and 36 rods exactly, in theory it doesn't need an overflow splitter?

I'm circling back to the precision concern, because this would be fed by a 6 RIP blueprint using clockspeeds with repeating decimals. But maybe the thing to do is just test it.

Or, rather, it'd be scaled up from there.

[wind spade]

if you feed things exact amounts, then no overflow is needed

[fringe pawn]

Imma build it and see if anything lands in an overflow ISC at the end.

[wind spade]

repeating decimals on input are problem 🤔

[fringe pawn]

The offenders

The game doesn't show the new production time in parantheses I just noticed.

In theory, the final modular frame machine wouldn't be 100% efficient if precision is causing a small loss. Which is harder to watch. A gain is easy to spot, as even before something hits the overflow ISC, the machine buffers on the final assembler should either be a stable number, or rise.

[wind spade]

offender is .222222 ore

[fringe pawn]

In this instance that's creating a slight loss of RIPs in theory? Everything is now saturated and running, except the last modular frame machine, which has 70~ RIPs and 145~ rods. I'll check it in 24 hours~ of runtime.

[median heath]

In theory, no.
In practice, the game fucks up every so often. Which is the real reason you build failsafe sinks.

They should never fire, so you can route an entire factory's worth of lines to a singular failsafe, as it will handle at most 1 item/min.

[obsidian edge]

Why is overflow such a big issue?

[vapid gorge]

because it's possible for 1 of the items to back up and block the other from entering

[north ocean]

Ooh I like that angle you set those smart splitters at, I've never thought of that but then I don't generally sushi belt either. Looks cool though

[little elk]

just remember they are talking about sushi belts in case you were not aware. for non sushi players this adds a whole level of complexion that people recommended for something else that you don't need if you keep your pipes one item type only

[fringe pawn]

6 rods in the overflow ISC right now. Hm.

Switching the final machine's input belts from MK3 to MK4

[fringe pawn]

Though the line running into that final splitter is Mk5 because that's the default on my hot bar. Is this potentially the fault of mismatched belt speeds? The MK5 belt is feeding the splitter faster than the MK3 belt could accept items, so they went out the overflow side?

[deft lichen]

I'm looking for a train signal diagram that has really pretty representations of both path and block signals, can't find it anywhere

I think it describes bidi tracks

ohh that was it https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/File:Bi-Directional_Rail_System_Design_1.webp

[wind spade]

@vagrant thunder see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[fringe pawn]

I'm getting on a plane so everything is packed for now. But I'm curious to let that modular frame factory work some more once I can get to my hotel room. Does the machine input belt need to match or exceed the speed of the main bus to avoid parts getting sent to overflow?

[wind spade]

main bus?

if you're using a bus, then I'd advise not to 😛

[fringe pawn]

Poor choice of words on my parts, I'm just referring to the rod/RIP belt feeding the modular frame assemblers.

I'm curious on other thoughts on how those 6 rods slipped through, if anyone has any. It was over the course of 6~ hours.

[sharp scaffold]

if it works it works

(I bought the game today)

also very efficient ^

[torn plaza]

the design is very human

[fringe pawn]

Maybe the thing to do would be to test my modular frame sushi setup with Mk4 belts at the final assembler, as that would be the most realistic belt I'd be using when making such a factory probably?

I'll let it run on Mk4 belts for the next several hours and see what happens

(everything behind that last assembler is Mk5)

I'm placing the 6 rods back in that assembler.

[vapid gorge]

what are you trying to test?

[fringe pawn]

It's a 40ppm modular frame factory running a sushi belt. All machines behind it are running at 100%, I've checked every machine panel multiple times hours apart.

[vapid gorge]

oh you're just testing to see if it works

[fringe pawn]

I just want to see if anything leaks out the back

[vapid gorge]

because of the sushi belt?

[fringe pawn]

Over course of 6 hours, 6 iron rods came out that last splitter into the ISC on the right.

(it's a smart splitter set to overflow on that output)

[vapid gorge]

well while it's techncially possible to not ever need an over flow you have to set it up so that the various items arrive roughly at teh same time for them to be consumed properly at the last machien of a sushi belt

not impossible to do but I prefer to just set up a sink until it self balances and then you should be able to disconnect it

[fringe pawn]

It will balance eventually?

[vapid gorge]

if you have the right number of items on the belt to be consumed and an overflow to a sink at the start? yes

just like any manifold

you have each splitter set to overflow right?

[fringe pawn]

Yep

[vapid gorge]

cool yeah shouldn't have an issue then after it sorts it'self out

when theres wire/screws involved though I'll pre fill a few stacks of those first though as it'll take forever to spin up to 100%

[fringe pawn]

Are there any conditions under which it would need tens of hours to (mostly) sort itself out?

[vapid gorge]

wires/screws 😄

[fringe pawn]

RIght, I definitely do prefills

[vapid gorge]

anything that has big stacks

but if you pre fill all the slots, set it to overflow to a sink , go do something for like 10 minutes and see if it's balanced out

I'm glad people are using my angled splitter set up for this xD

[fringe pawn]

It's the compactness for blueprints that pushed me over the edge, and program splitters aren't easy to get early on.

[vapid gorge]

don't really need progs though?

[fringe pawn]

Plus I rush AI limiters for tickets anyway, so I always have tons.

[vapid gorge]

not unless you're doing single input sushi

[fringe pawn]

Prog splitters would save me using a beam to angle the splitter, so I could just set one output to do both parts.

[median heath]

Phrasing... 😁

[fringe pawn]

I can do prog splitters now, I have tons of supercomps, but I want the blueprints to hold up on subsequent playthroughs.

[vapid gorge]

so single input - well technically you don't need to use those - you could use a balancer set up to evenly distribute items down a line

but I'm wary of SIS, I don't know what's involved with timing distribution xD

[fringe pawn]

Balanced production would be pretty easy in this case

[median heath]

You don't need poggers unless you're doing single-input.

Like Cobalt said.

[vapid gorge]

it sounds like that's what they want though, just to not have to spin the Smart splitter?

but why not just have a bp of the assembler and already spun Smart splitter?

make life easier

[fringe pawn]

Yep, that's what I did

[median heath]

I missed where it was declared that it needed to be spun in the first place?

[vapid gorge]

SIS is cool but I doubt I'll ever mess with it

I mean the spun SS is the objectively coolest set up for sushi. 😛

[fringe pawn]

Single input would win ever so slightly on compactness, but not by much. I'm actually only now experimenting with sushi just because of how blueprints incentivize going tight.

[median heath]

Cool is subjective.

[vapid gorge]

not in this case 😄

[median heath]

Non-spun Smart is more compact than spun.

[fringe pawn]

It's a blueprint adjacency thing

Imagine a mirrored version of the blueprint, so that the opposing splitters don't clip

Due to their chubby models

[median heath]

Just make a double-sided BP?

Assembler - Smart - Assembler fits in the Printer just fine.

[fringe pawn]

I do like some curviness though. But in a blueprint context this was holding me back, it's otherwise what I had been doing since I started.

[fringe pawn]

I've got this design as well, it means you'll be doing all the output connections manually though. Which is fine, I'm sure I'll find uses for both. It was the root of me asking yesterday whether a blueprint of just belts and splitters could connect to machines.

[median heath]

Oh. I never have outputs in my BPs because the direction outputs will flow constantly changes during actual outpost construction.
So I'm not going to force myself into that from a design standpoint.

[fringe pawn]

I'm also wary of what features they might add in 1.0, so I don't want to go ham on designing every version I can, 4 versions based on possible input and output directions.

[median heath]

I prefer 1 version that is omni-directional.

[fringe pawn]

How are you getting the input to be omnidirectional?

[median heath]

Because if the output isn't defined and I want the input the other way, I just rotate it the other way?

[fringe pawn]

Ah, right

[median heath]

If you want Manufacturers to be simpler, just make a BP that has 4 Smarts in it with the belt down the middle and nothing else.

Can slap it behind any Manufacturer and just connect the cross belts.

[fringe pawn]

I like my PP sticking into a splitter design, but now I'm wondering about throwing some beams with wall connectors in.

I'm just now realizing that leakage into an ISC/sink is sufficiently low quickly enough that you could probably just thread to overflow line at the end back to the start.

Otherwise known as a ring bus?

[vapid gorge]

noooooooo bad idea

if you have a 'leak' it means it hasn't stabalised and you're just adding more to the throughput

[fringe pawn]

Right, but once it's 90%~ stabilized, it should matter. Case in point, 6 rods would have been no big deal if I had gone ring bus in the first place here.

[vapid gorge]

all those 6 rods gonna do is go through the end and loop back takign up more throughput

with everything else that is 'leaked' until the other components have balanced out

I've never heard of a situation in this game where looping items back onto a path is not terrible

[fringe pawn]

Wouldn't that only matter if the belt is close to saturation in the first place?

[opal locust]

I setup my rubber/plastic plant, do I need to use pumps at junction crosses to force the oil in 1 direction horizontally?

[fringe pawn]

In this instance it's 240ppm rods and 60ppm RIPs on one belt

[median heath]

"I like my PP sticking into a splitter"

Jesus Christ man.... this is a family Discord.

[vapid gorge]

depends how long the leak lasts

[opal locust]

I have 3 oil extractors connected, but I'm not getting anywhere enough flow

It's only pushing 1 of the extractor's oil towards my refineries

[vapid gorge]

to the 1 pipe?

[opal locust]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

how much oil are you trying to move?

[opal locust]

300

[vapid gorge]

are your refineries starving?

[opal locust]

yes

[vapid gorge]

all of them? only 1?

[opal locust]

only 60 is getting through so 9/10 refineries are starving

[vapid gorge]

are you using any floor holes?

[opal locust]

no

[vapid gorge]

got enough headlift?

[opal locust]

I have 240 in one pipe meeting 60 from another pipe at a junction cross, but only 60 is going forward

[vapid gorge]

can you get an overhead shot from a tall lader or tower of the whole set up?

[opal locust]

it's a completely flat pipe, in fact the extractors are uphill so the pipes go down first to meet up

60 in the near south pipe, 240 in the far north pipe, but once they meet at the junction cross there's only 60 flow rate

I think I figured it out, I had to delete the pipe at the junction cross and then put in new pipe

because I had pipe laid out and put a junction cross on top

[vapid gorge]

not sure what you mean but glad it worked

[sharp scaffold]

I've had sometime 💀

[opal locust]

I did pipe > junction cross on existing pipe > flow issue

so I deleted the pipe was there leaving only the junction cross, and connected new pipe to that junction cross and it worked

[vapid gorge]

sometimes doing that with junctions/spliters/mergers can do a thing

[opal locust]

I initially had a plan to make a bunch of coal generators for the petroleum coke, but I don't have mk4 belts and I'm making 450 petroleum coke/minute

so rather than mess with a double belt setup, I'm just sinking the coke

[summer yacht]

Your problem was in this second photo. The pipe was going straight through the cross. You can see the outline. This is a common problem. When you put a cross down on an existing pipe, you need to delete the pipe after and reconnect the two separate sections of pipe.

[opal locust]

lesson learned

[vapid gorge]

@raw wadi if you want I can help brain storm a solution to your train thing here?

[raw wadi]

thanks for the offer, Its pretty simple actually. I think i can figure it out on my own

i just need to move 2-3 resources anyway

[vapid gorge]

how new to trains are you? for example do you know you need buffers?

[raw wadi]

i unocked trains 2-3 days ago. made a simple push-pull system that loads and unloads at 2 locations. my goal now is to make a central hub and get things from places

i am not aware of buffers tho

[vapid gorge]

so a couple things - if you have more than 1 train on a path you probably want 2 lanes, it's much much simpler

buffers - when trains are loading/unloading they lock out throughput

so you can never get 2 belts of throughput on 1 platform

a common and simple solution is to have 1 belt feed into 1 industrial buffer and 2 belts feeding onto the platform. And then the same at the drop off point

[raw wadi]

i see

i guess ive been doing it all wrong then lol

[vapid gorge]

kinda like that

[raw wadi]

this is my loading dock which i made for the first time, i ve been just using a single merger and 2 story manifold system for loading

[vapid gorge]

yeah you'll need buffers. Did the diagram make sense?

[raw wadi]

it does

[vapid gorge]

cool. You can do more than 1 belt per platform but unless the total trip time is huge 1 belt is a safe bet

depends how much math and fiddling you want to do

[raw wadi]

i did have a question tho. i saw some youtube videos on factory guides etc, and theyre always like 'this needs 300 iron/minute as input' and im really confused as to how I can get that particular amount

I just plop a mk4 belt and call it a day which im now realizing causes bottlenecks

i though that since its faster it just makes everything faster which clearly isnt right

[vapid gorge]

depends on the situation - do you mean delivered from a train?

[raw wadi]

no sorry, im not talking about the train part anymore

[vapid gorge]

ok so assuming you built a manifold with mk4 belts and feeding X parts per min to a series of machines that need X ppm it should work fine

[raw wadi]

for example, i made this factory from a youtube guide and it require this as input, i was wondering how to do that

[vapid gorge]

well as long as you're feeding enough it it'll balance out. Is the issue some machines at the end are starving?

[raw wadi]

ya, i was trying to create adaptinve control units with this factory and they were idle most of the time

[vapid gorge]

ok do you know the term 'manifold'?

[raw wadi]

yes

[raw wadi]

yup, gotcha

[vapid gorge]

ok so in this example the first machine on the left is getting more items pm than the next right?

[raw wadi]

yup

[vapid gorge]

and you know that this will self balance in the long run?

and the why of it?

[raw wadi]

that is its fed continously tho right?

[vapid gorge]

yeah lets say that example needs 600 ppm and it's being fed 600ppm

[raw wadi]

like for example in my situation im delivering resoureces via train so theres some downtime between deliveries

[vapid gorge]

Ok well in your specific case if the train is being laoded with the right ppm It's probably the buffer issue

[sand epoch]

Doesn't need to be continuous, just so long as the total delivered per minute average >= the use

[raw wadi]

youre right

[raw wadi]

makes sense

[vapid gorge]

what you can do then is say, wait until the buffers are all filled from train deliveries, then turn on the system and it'll balance out

[raw wadi]

good idea

ill do that

[vapid gorge]

once you have basic buffers you can not wait for it to be full, but itll take longer to spin up

something I like about filling the buffers though is that if you come back to it later and it's starving again you know there's a flow issue as it was worker before when it was flooded

[vapid gorge]

as a side thing - I'd be very wary of copying complicated stuff from vids

1. you never know if the person involved is an idiot. They might be wrong, or have specific bents to how they design things which may be super awkward but it's how they do it. Or it may just not work. Similar thing to downloading blue prints

2. you don't learn as much from it. Problem solving designs yourself really lets you dive into designs and come up with solutions

In general my advice if you take ideas from various spots make them very specific. Like a way to balance flow in some specific way. Smaller sections that solve X small problems

for example this is a small specific solution to fluid flow problems I use to show people

it's not a whole set up - just a general solution to how to build a loop to manage back flow in a fluid system

[raw wadi]

interesting

thanks for the advice, ill be sure to try it out

[vapid gorge]

no stress! even if you aren't specifically a hand on learner the game leans hard into it imo.

[raw wadi]

ya started out last week and quickly got overwhelmed by all the minute details

even though im a math guy, its kinda crazy

but thats what i love about it

[vapid gorge]

The game has a pretty good learning curve.
Being a math guy helps - but it's more that your needs and options change fairly quickly with each tier? The whole game is a bit of a tutorial because until you unlock everything you don't really have a grasp of what you can do and what you might want to make your end goal