math-and-meta

[shut coyote]

no yellow, life's good

aw shit there were two yellow.

forgot to connect output

[frosty owl]

If you got some charged power storages closeby, using them to run the factory can be a good way to judge the efficiency of machines (power draw flat = all 100% efficient)

[shut coyote]

tentatively, No yellow, life's good

hah what's power storage

oh wait i have those

[frosty owl]

That's also why I like to keep a few storages in every factory: troubleshooting!

[shut coyote]

when where THOSE added??

[frosty owl]

They all add up while connected to the network anyway

[frosty owl]

U7 or U6, I can't quite recall...

Veeery useful. I envy your new discovery, it's gonna make power management much easier

[shut coyote]

thankfully, not quite needing to worry about power

got multiple Gw surplus

but that will definitely come in handy

[frosty owl]

Note: their charge has a max rate (they take 1h to charge fully, minimum), but not their discharge (a single one can power a huge factory for a few seconds)

Great to kickstart power facilities imo

Or not to have your fuse blow when night comes and all lights turn on ahahah

[hidden viper]

sorry to interrupt, but I'm gonna dump the fact that I was double-checking my maths for three days before I found this error

[shut coyote]

didn't underclock and left at 100%?

[hidden viper]

look at the outputs
one says 26.84, the other says ~60

[frosty owl]

I'm pretty sure there's another output arrow outgoing from that node

[hidden viper]

ohh there is

[shut coyote]

Yeah

[hidden viper]

this is gonna be painful to neaten

[shut coyote]

Guess you didn't see that lmfao

[frosty owl]

A reference for the kind of beltwork needed for "sushi that can stop" aka Saturated Sushi (belts)
#screenshots message

[fierce ruin]

How much sulfur should i use for a turbofuel plant? i also want to conserve some for future builds. i was thinking of using three pure nodes (with mk.2 miners overclocked to 250%) but idk if it is too much

[vapid gorge]

you can use like half hte world suflur and have heaps for a massive nuclear set up if you really want.

[fierce ruin]

oh okay nice ty

[wind spade]

use zero, skip turbofuel 🙂

[shy kindle]

does anybody know how to remove horizontal z-fighting? I posted a picture in the designt and architecture chat

[shy kindle]

or use diluted fuel just takes a bit more space I think

[main dirge]

Tbh though if you're using half the world's sulfur for nuclear power then you probably need the rest to bolster aluminium production for whatever's drawing all that power

[median heath]

Zero, because it's a turbofuel plant.

[barren elm]

You don't

It's a product of building things where the geometry lines up perfectly, and the only solution is to just not do that

I suppose you could throw your save into SCIM and manually edit the height (think it's Y in unreal?) to be 0.001 lower

[true junco]

You can also fudge it manually with the way foundations and walkways snap to certain things like pillars and beams.

[magic island]

the way I fix z-fighting on the sides of foundations is by slapping walls on them. 1m walls fix a lot

if you're trying to create a greebled surface that you don't want to cover up with a wall, I'd just say, uh... don't make it z-fight

[fierce ruin]

yeah this is my plan for now

[fierce ruin]

I'm currently trying to build as many fuel generators as possible because I need a lot of electricity. From what I've found so far building a turbofuel power plant is the best idea for that

[wind spade]

building a nuclear plant is better usually, many pepole just o diluted fuel and then skip straight to nuclear

[delicate chasm]

You do you and make the factory if you want but...yeah...it's something I won't ever do again and I did a very small TF build. You'll find only a few people who are enthusiastic about turbofuel for electricity.

Same with compacted coal to 'upgrade' your coal generators.

[fierce ruin]

Oh I hadn't been thinking about nuclear power yet

[fierce ruin]

Think I made a bottleneck on accident... any suggestions? Three tier plate and rotor setup atm.

[barren elm]

Finish that steel production milestone and use mk3 belts

Massive step up from mk1 belts, and less of a pain to craft than mk2

[prisma kraken]

yeah, mk3's are much nicer to use, some people skip even unlocking them

*skip unlocking mk2

[south walrus]

Which recipe is more efficient: Encased Industrial Beam or Encased Industrial Pipe? I would gess that the alt is more efficent but I want to know for sure.

[vapid gorge]

alts, in general, aren't 'better', just different

That being said if you look at the numbers of those two, the trade off is 33% less steel used but more machines needed

imo it's an excellent trade

one of the few alts that I would argue is better because it doesn't change the raw resources you need and just reduces it.

[south walrus]

Okey dokey in my situation it is defiantly a fair tradeoff to use more machines, so I'll use the pipe one.

[vapid gorge]

oh absolutely. It's why it's 'one of the few that I'd argue is better'

The dramatic reduction in steel will trump just about anyone as to the small increase of space.

[prisma kraken]

pipe uses less steel for the same number of EIB's produced, the tradeoff is that you need more assemblers

both recipes are equivalent on concrete usage

interestingly, just running the numbers on it, the extra power needed by the assemblers is offset by savings on needing less constructors for pipes and the reduction in steel needed

for 24 eib/min, i get ~222 mw with the eib recipe and 213mw for the eip recipe, assuming solid steel & default iron ingot

(cost of concrete and miners not factored in)

[delicate chasm]

...wait, doesn't that also mean that the footprint in 3D space is smaller too?

By which metric then is EIB beating EIP to uphold the 'no objectivity in alts'?

[wind spade]

speed per machine

[delicate chasm]

Not sure if that's a real suggestion or sarcastic.

(moonchild's example is 24/min)

[true junco]

EIP is one of the only alts where i cannot see any reason NOT to use it.

[delicate chasm]

It above most other recipes screams at my personal values systems yeah. Diluted fuel too because water is effectively unlimited. Most of the rest present a real conundrum though.

I got around to doing crystal computers recently and really liked it. I winced a little at first because oscillator meme but the build goes up so fast.

[wind spade]

real? EIB is 6/min, EIP is 4/min

[median heath]

EIB saves space.

Also has a REALLY nice ratio chain into the Encased HMF alt.

[true junco]

does it actually save space since it requires more machines making beams and foundries for the steel tho? could have sworn it took more machines overall...

[median heath]

Saves Assemblers. Would have to check the rest, do you want the ratio fun though?

[delicate chasm]

Ah... Well, I was replying to an example given with a chain ending in 24/min.

It would have been a clever quip to throw in there if that had been your intent so wasn't sure.

[wind spade]

are you comparing the two recipes or recipe paths?

[delicate chasm]

Looking at the whole path - because the thing EIB saves is saved elsewhere in the chain using EIP, at least in part.

Napkin estimate...it might be actually more than making up for it. This is new to me though, not making assertions but asking questions. That's my understanding.

[prisma kraken]

FYI, this is just the near napkin math i ran:

[delicate chasm]

It doesn't actually count unless you can fit an EIP chain into a smaller cubic space than the EIB chain, while saving energy and matching output.

[wind spade]

the problem with "objectively better" is that once you start adding things like "has a nice ratio" or "I already have beams", it gets tricky to justify even almost better recipe like EIP

[prisma kraken]

you save some space on constructors, etc, i guess

[median heath]

Any Steel Ingot recipe can supply the 75/min needed for a Steel Beam Constructor running at 250%
Steel Beam Constructor running at 250% makes 37.5/min
37.5/min feed and EIB Assembler running at 156.25%
EIB Assembler running at 156.25% makes 9.375/min

Encased HMF requires how many EIBs as an input?
You guessed it - 9.375/min.

1:1:1:1 Ratio Perfection

[true junco]

recipie path. with all other recipies being the same. it makes no sense to only look at 1 recipie at a time when changing inputs effects all other steps of production.

[vapid gorge]

Huh, building count and power are almost identical

[wind spade]

ah well, Avelon's question was EIP vs EIB so I assumed they're comparing recipes only

[vapid gorge]

Neat

[delicate chasm]

I actually wondered about that. I always use HEFs with manufacturers clocked to 96% and never bothered to solve the standard recipe chain.

[prisma kraken]

i wasn't really making any specific point, just was interested in the power delta

[true junco]

so. with all recipies turned on the machines counts are this for 60/min EIB (using EIP alt)

and like this with all the same recipies except default EIB

[prisma kraken]

how do you get the blender in there?

[wind spade]

it blended in

[median heath]

Tbf this doesn't account for overclocking and such.
So given the one maching is "faster", you can do some different things with clock speeds.

[true junco]

tools decided that since it likes coke steel, that it wanted to make rubber concrete out of the polymer resin... lol

[delicate chasm]

That's obviously a Stockfish move.

[prisma kraken]

um, yeah, but that doesn't need a blender unless you pull in recycled rubber

[wind spade]

since ore -> ingot is irrelevant, you can probably leave all default recipes and just do EIP vs not-EIP

would be enough to compare

[true junco]

you could. it will give different machines. but proportions will still be noticable.

the main thing is that EIB uses less machines AFTER ore processing. EIP uses less machines in the ore processing step.

[vapid gorge]

yeah but it'll still be about 1/3 less the number of Steel producing machines right?

so no matter what path you choose for the steel same reduction of building since you need less steel

[wind spade]

exactly my point

[prisma kraken]

which does matter

[delicate chasm]

If the metric is space.

[median heath]

Might be one of the recipes they alter with the rebalance.

[vapid gorge]

I wouldnt be at all surprised

[true junco]

all defaults. except the right uses EIP

making 60/min. (i use 60/min just because it makes things easy to compare to whatever is on the wiki etc.

[prisma kraken]

i think it makes more sense to do the comparison with solid steel instead of default steel

[delicate chasm]

Is that what you initially used?

[prisma kraken]

that's what i posted, yes

[delicate chasm]

That does make sense yes. Space as the metric, you'd want solid steel.

[true junco]

it'll be the same idea. the earlier example went with coke steel. basically. EIP takes more machines to make than EIB after you make your steel. but it takes less machines to make the steel you need when comparing the same method of making the steel.

[prisma kraken]

its the middle-of-the road more efficient recipe, i figured most steel you make is going to be from solid steel, so its useful, and probably gives a better real-world indication

i also think most casual playthroughs aren't going to use coke steel much

its a great recipe, but not one you want to go to unless you're building big

[true junco]

ignoring everything else. if you compare all the ways to make steel, assuming you only use 1 method at a time. Coke steel makes the most steel globally. only because no matter how you make steel. you dont run out of iron. its the fuel you run out of first.

[prisma kraken]

plus it really skews the foundry count down

yep, you run out of coal before you run out of iron 🙂

[true junco]

so. "pure solid steel" uses the least amount of iron. but you run out of coal. vs coke steel. uses more iron than pure-solid steel... but you can make WAY more coke than there is coal. so you can actually make a LOT more steel with Coke steel vs Pure-solid or any other method.

[prisma kraken]

but there really is a lot of coal available, even for pretty large steel demands, you can get ~10k ingots/min just off of what is in NF

also don't overlook compacted steel which doubles the potency of coal for a larger yield

i.e. 600 sulfer + 600 coal + 1200 iron = 2000 ingots

[true junco]

compact has the issue of running out of sulfur. you will use 100% of sulfur for significantly less Steel production vs other methods

idk where my list is. but its something rediculous like 20k vs 50k vs 70k

[prisma kraken]

well, i don't use it that way, just to facilitate using all the iron in one location to make steel

[true junco]

Global Maximums are useful to know. not useful to actually do. lol

[delicate chasm]

North Dune Desert might be the one place that makes sense.

[true junco]

also. you can turn 100% of Bauxite processing over using 2 oil nodes. lol. petrocoke is strong stuff.

[prisma kraken]

my starter base is in the iron field of north forest, there there's 3 pure coal + 1 normal and 1 normal sulfer, so i make some compacted steel to process most of the 6 pure iron nodes there

the rest of the iron goes to coated iron plate & copper alloy

[true junco]

basically everything involving coke looks bad at first because of how much coke you need for it... but the amount of coke you can make per crude is HUGE.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, coke is cheap to produce

its also pretty convenient to ship via vehicle/drone, being 200-stack

the thing is you are using 60mw just to make 120 of it if you sink the resin byproduct

[true junco]

its WAY easier to ship the oil given the density of coke per oil

i always send the resin off to become plastic/rubber since i need that anyways.

ah. there it is... "why i will never use "instant scrap"

[prisma kraken]

you might wish to run the numbers on that, i have a feeling the numbers are closer than you'd think

[true junco]

maximum global aluminum ingots for the price of 47.6% of global sulfur max... or only 8.3% of global Crude Oil.

[prisma kraken]

i share that sentiment, electro is so much better imho b/c i need the rubber & plastic anyway

and making the coke you need for whatever usually will kick off enough hor to convert into fuel that the coke generation is free

off of the 1350 crude in crater lakes, i'm making 2088 coke, 800 plastic, 600 rubber, and about 15gw of power as a byproduct... its enough to power that build

[true junco]

looks like Instant also uses 2GW more power vs Electrode

[prisma kraken]

you're looking at global numbers?

[true junco]

yep

global max aluminum ingots is 13040

[prisma kraken]

i'm always a little wary of analyzing things that way

[true junco]

it takes either 978 crude oil... or 3260 sulfur

[prisma kraken]

its nice to know the theoretical max's but practicality of moving everything to one factory to do one way just isn't a way i wish to build

[true junco]

like i said earlier. knowing the global production limits is useful. but actually building them is not.

i like to know where the ceiling is. i'm not trying to hit it.

[prisma kraken]

plus once you're making enough of the aluminum goods, you start looking at bauxite as an easy way of making silica for nuclear

i've played with the numbers quite a bit, its kind of crazy where the limits are, you can almost get 60/min of all 4 phase 4 elevator parts

with that you kind of have to choose between pasta & tpr's and drop one down to 55/min

[true junco]

Im not even looking to maximize aluminum any time soon. Max aluminum without using any quartz is 9780/min. I have a lot of other plans for quartz.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, right now i'm processing all of the pink forest baux, and its almost enough for my goals

[true junco]

Oddly enough the difference between 9780 and 13040 aluminum is quartz. They take the same amount of coke/sulfur/coal etc.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that's just the diff between default & pure ingot

you end up using over half the world's quatz for that yield though

[true junco]

There are also few paths for aluminum that end up less than 9780. You have to intentionally make default processing steps then use pure ingots. Lol

[prisma kraken]

this is why i think as a balance update, more quartz should probably be added to the world

[true junco]

Which is why im using Sloppy-Electrode-Pure. No sulfur, no quartz, less than 1000 crude oil, makes 9780 aluminum.

[prisma kraken]

same 🙂

well, i'm only doing the 5220 pink forest baux atm

i need something like 5400 total, which i can make up the rest needed however i wish

little annoyed that i can't easily just do it all in crater lakes, but that's ok

my big gripe atm is that with the new patch, the critters in lake forest keep respawning every 3 day cycles, and its taxing having to clear em out again every few hrs

on the flip side, mushrooms and slugs are respawning too

[true junco]

Stuff like that was happening to me in update 7 too tho. Lots of odd things have happened to me in this game that apparently shouldn't. Lol

[prisma kraken]

if you play the game enough, you see some really bizarra 1-offs, for sure

[true junco]

In U7 when I moved into the RD all the slugs and fart flowers kept respawning. I probably collected aome of those slugs a half dozen times. This is also when the train station i built up in the red bambo near the buaxite suddenly had dozens of chuncks of uranium spawn underneath it. Lol

[sand hare]

I spent days crunching the numbers on the aluminum issue, ended up going with instant scrap (sulfur) and original ingot (silica). It creates the max possible aluminum, and also take a huge portion of quartz. But the difference is that quartz can easily be substituted in most places, aluminum can't

[cyan hinge]

Hey can someone share a 7:3 ratio splitting

[prisma kraken]

that's one that i've never had to construct

which is actually a hint that maybe you need to think about your problem differently

are your 7 inputs equal?

[desert tangle]

With truck stops only having two in puts and two outputs, whats the benefit to using them over just using belts?

[snow dove]

not lagging the crap out of your game

[desert tangle]

lol right xD

[snow dove]

and easier to run

[desert tangle]

Im guessing because of the speed trains can reach, they have some advantage over belts? Plus not having belts full of stuff thats just sitting there waiting to be used

[snow dove]

trucks have a higher max throughput than trains and use less fuel

[desert tangle]

oh really???

Interesting

[snow dove]

yes

[delicate chasm]

More specifically, the train itself isn't limited (a single train can load/unload more items than any other thing in the game actually).

The station is limited though in that it freezes the belts connected to it when interacting with a freight car, so the belts stopping prevents 100% of the items being picked up if you are pushing the max belt speed.

More stations and more cars can scale up the throughput to whatever number you DO actually need but with truck stations you can make the numbers stay 1:1 and pretty.

[wind spade]

merge all, split to 3

[delicate chasm]

If you still wanna feel like you did some math you can merge them in 3 pairs and have your 7th line manifold-merging into the 3 pairs, if belt speed is the reason for not merging all to begin with.

[median heath]

Already answered by others, but for future reference you can just Google "Satisfacotry <number> to <number> balancer" and get instant layouts.

[cyan hinge]

Thanks buddy

[sand hare]

About the train speed limit, a big part of the mitigation is to put a storage container immediately next to the ingress and egress stations. If only feeding one 780 belt into it, it will absorb and compensate for the loading downtime.

[stone delta]

Is there away to download the items or recipe ratios from the online satisfactory calculator?

[sand hare]

And I put one 780 belt into two stations, to give the the train time to go to the destination and back without causing a bottleneck

[vapid gorge]

no sure, but you can save plans with Satisfactory Tools.

[stone delta]

thanks, how do i save the plans?

[vapid gorge]

with tools? you can hit 'share link' and then save the url somewhere - which is what I do. But apparently it now offers a download file? not 100% sure how that works. I just keep all my links on my planning spread sheet to keep records

I can keep them nicely labled in one nice list that way too

[stone delta]

how did you load all of that data into your spreadsheets?

[vapid gorge]

Just made a section with the links to the plans with names. Just click a link and it'll open it on your browser

[wind spade]

you can select any number of production lines, save them into a file, which you can keep anywhere as a backup and then load it back into tools in case it's needed (even cross-version)

[vapid gorge]

but if you wanted to change one of the plans in a group you saved in a file you'd have to resave the whole thing after opening it right?

[wind spade]

yeah, though you'd have to do the same with links 🙂

[vapid gorge]

oh sure but each link is it's own little box

[stone delta]

Is there away to download the items or recipe ratios from the online satisfactory calculator?

[wind spade]

no idea

[vapid gorge]

I think I'd rather have those dozen links than 1 file. But I'm sure others might like it

yeah, I loathe calc, I wish to know less about it

[wind spade]

you can also have multiple files 🙂

and it's not really a replacement, it's a different thing with most likely different usage

file export is better for backing up all your productions or transferring between devices due to need only for one file

links are simpler to share

[wind spade]

any specific reason why do you want to get it from scim?

[barren elm]

I like throwing satisfactory tools links into the in-game screens (obviously they don't visualize), so instead of "iron foundry", it's "here's the entire room's contents"

There's links that've persisted for years in there too so I assume the link string itself contains all relevant info

[wind spade]

it doesn't. it's just unique identifier that is used to query database for all relevant data. So technically in case my database fails, all data is lost (let's hope that never happens and my backups are functional 😄 )

[stone delta]

i need to calculate throughput of groups of recipes to make sure my sushi lines do not saturate

[wind spade]

so... it's not really required to be from scim?

[stone delta]

not sure what you mean

[wind spade]

you asked if there's a way to download from scim, I asked if there's a reason it has to be specifically from scim 🤷‍♂️

[stone delta]

im not sure what you mean by "required"

[wind spade]

my question is basically if it needs to be from scim, or if it can be from other sources

[stone delta]

im not understanding why other sources would be involved here? the graph that was generate by SCIM is unique to SCIM, so not sure why it would be on other sources

[wind spade]

ah, I guess I misunderstood what "items and recipe ratios" are

I assumed it's just data about items and recipes from game

[vapid gorge]

yeah sounded like you wanted to download a production plan.

[stone delta]

thanks for your understanding, i have a series of blueprints that use groups of recipes from SCIM, since there in series and use the sushi line i have to subtract and add parts to the sushi lines as i go up the stack of blueprints, i could solve this problem if i manually entered all of the SCIM recipes by hand, but that would take a while for me to do, i think there are at least 30 recipes in total, not sure

[wind spade]

well, then back to my original answer - no idea about scim

[stone delta]

oh i guess it would be a bit faster if i downloaded the default recipes from another site and manually plugged in the recipe multipliers

is there another site that contains all of the recipes as downloadable data for a spread sheet?

[wind spade]

there's literally a json provided by game devs in game files 😄 (CommunityResources/Docs/Docs.json)

but you can also use the slightly better formatted json from Tools (https://github.com/greeny/SatisfactoryTools/blob/master/data/data.json)

[stone delta]

thanks, i was not aware of that,

[wind spade]

the Tools' data.json is basically Docs.json parsed and formatted for easier access

[prisma kraken]

i'll point you to another tool that i use in conjunction with greeny's: sp.runesun.com, i use it for more planning out the factory structure, if you're interested i'll share a link to some of my plans for you to see

...i use to kind of try to keep track of things in a spreadsheet, but runesun's tool is just better for it all than spreadsheets imho

[stone delta]

thanks, i would love to take a look at what you have

[prisma kraken]

look for a DM

and @fierce ruin, i love your tool as a first step in the design process, i supplement it with other tools for bookkeeping and layout

i swear, that was lowercase when i typed it, sorry random other person

[vapid gorge]

it's not that weird tool that you have to create nodes in a flow chart is it?

[prisma kraken]

no

really you just pick a recipe and number of machines and drill down filling in your choice of recipes from the goal to a full factory, and allows you to group those things into several levels of groupings with summaries - pretty much what you'd do in a spreadsheet 😉

(but without all the domain-specific formula entering)

you end up with things in it that look like this:

i find it incredibly useful for both bookkeeping and also for just noodling around with what to do with the extra 66.66667 pipe i'm making, etc

[vapid gorge]

You get basically that with sftools but if you find a more specific layout useful, why not

[wind spade]

what's the difference between this and just selecting the recipes in tools? 🤔 (serious question, valuable feedback for me what features are missing/could be useful)

[prisma kraken]

your tool will always prefer the optimal of choices... sometimes you want to do something differently complicated

[vapid gorge]

wdym? force it to use a specific recipe

[wind spade]

hence why I included "selecting the recipes in tools"

[prisma kraken]

runesun's tool also allows you to group different factories into logical units and get a higher level world view

your tool doesn't really do this sort of thing:

[vapid gorge]

so like having multiple tools plans?

gonna stop looking at this tool, the ui is painful

[prisma kraken]

pretty much, its kind of useful more as if you were laying out the floor plan for the factories

yeah, it isn't very user-friendly

[vapid gorge]

I don't see it as being detailed enough for the floor plans I like, but if it works for you Shrug

[wind spade]

again, nothing against your use-case, but I don't really see the difference 🤔 you can have multiple Tools tabs and the overview is there for each tab (and for general overview you can even use the new export tab, though with limited info)

[prisma kraken]

the other thing runesun does that greeny's tool doesn't do a very good job with (i'm sorry, but this is good-hearted constructive criticism), is that you can lay out views like this:

[wind spade]

I'm completely fine with any criticism, don't worry

[prisma kraken]

i actually keep my notes about clockrates of machines, etc in the tool

[vapid gorge]

in what way is this more useful to you out of curiosity?

ah I see the clocking

I guess? do you have to do that manually?

[wind spade]

but this seems like pretty much the same thing as buildings/items menu

[prisma kraken]

yeah, but it really reflects for me how i physically built the factory

[wind spade]

clock speed is completely fair point - new tools are gonna include them in the same/similar way as beta did (hopefuly better way)

[vapid gorge]

I do that but with a spread sheet. Much easier to navigate and edit

[prisma kraken]

i'm sure your tool, greeny, can do a lot more than i use it for, but its also just sort of a personal process thing for me

[wind spade]

tbh I'm much more interested in negative feedback/things the tool can't do/things user would want from the tool, than just "great tool, works best for me". Gives me a sense of what more is needed/desired (as I don't really use my tool since I don't play SF 😄 )

[prisma kraken]

i find with your tool, you have to fight it to pick the recipes you specifically want to use, and to me that gets in the way/takes more time for me in the steps where i'm trying to figure out the factory

[wind spade]

don't you have to pick recipes in the other thing as well?

[prisma kraken]

explicitly, it never picks anything for you

[wind spade]

so you can't do things like recycled loop + residual rubber in there? aka 2 recipes for one item?

[prisma kraken]

like it doesn't tell you anything you should do, just makes the mathing of it autmatic

no, your tool is actually better for the recylced loop, but what i displayed in the 'crater lake oil' is a recycled loop

(very strange hybrid one, mind you)

[wind spade]

and it can calculate with 2 different recipes? or you have to manually set amounts?

[prisma kraken]

the latter

[wind spade]

ah I see

[prisma kraken]

i use your tool for that math 🙂

i know how to do it by hand, but your tool is just better than anything out there for that

[wind spade]

well, there's one idea I had a long time ago and there's a chance it'll be implemented in new tools... if so, then it may be the "solution" for your "problem", but I guess we'll see if/when it goes out 😄

but thanks for the feedback anyway 🙂 always eager to hear from people how I could improve things

[prisma kraken]

i find runesun kind of good when i have a spot on the map that i need to make use of all the resources, and i just want to kind of play with the numbers

[wind spade]

(tbh the list of "cool things to add to new tools" is so long that if I wanted to finish all of them before releasing new tools, I'd never release them 😄 )

[prisma kraken]

like north forest bluff, how many oscillators and hsc's can i make there and still have enough wire leftover for 120 motors... stuff like that

i'm not really looking for a plan, but to keep changing the numbers around until i find the thing i want to build

[wind spade]

I guess that's also possible with Tools (maximise option)

[prisma kraken]

kind of, i want it to be more of a process of design rather than go straight to the most optimal solution

[wind spade]

that's completely fair

[prisma kraken]

maybe along the way i'll realize that the steel would be better used for mf's instead of motors because i come across a number that's the perfect amount or something

what i kind of like about the runesun tool is i can click on a factory output, like '200 rubber', and it brings up a list like this:

which is every recipe that takes rubber as an input

[wind spade]

that's a bit like the idea I had (which wasn't really "my" idea to begin with, but inspiration for it was taken from Factorio's Helmod)

[prisma kraken]

i'm not claiming it an original idea

but i just find it nice to be able to drill down like that and then be like 'nope i chose poorly', delete 20 recipes in the chain and backtrack

really more of a personal process sorta preference

tbh, before i found runesun's tool, i was wasting hrs doing it all in spreadsheets

it would take me like a day to even just plan out in a spreadsheet a nuclear build, runesun allows me to do that in an hour and then try 5 different ways of doing it without needing to reprogram the formulas & stuff

i'm probably on the exceptional end of that all, knowing all the alt recipes pretty much by memory

i love it when you finally get your stuff into a train car and see the rate is what you expect:

feels good™️

[prisma kraken]

I sometimes forget how good these two recipes really are:

[oblique hollow]

yuh they are goated actually

[clever urchin]

Okay I have a weird question about pipes that I have no idea if I can word very well.

I need 900 crude oil going into refineries. Planning to overclock 2 pure node extractors in order to meet this. Was planning 450 production each. At the area where they meet refineries, can I use junctions to basically merge them into one pipeline, so the oil goes everywhere it needs at that point?

[median heath]

As long as no single part of that pipeline is being asked to push more than 600, yes.

[clever urchin]

Perfect, thank you. Each section is mathed out and triple checked to need 300 each exactly, just wanted to be sure the pipes would have the fluid spread out right when placed later. Cheers!

[vapid gorge]

though honestly one of the rules of pipeing is 'keep it simple', its more reliable to just process each of the 450s and seperate out into groups from the refinery outputs

[delicate chasm]

Another use case for shards I'm discovering in this playthrough: greatly reducing spin-up time for a new build that isn't maxing out its nodes to begin with.
Very convenient, as I don't store ingots so didn't have any with which to prefill the machines.

[median heath]

@viral ravine

[viral ravine]

Thanks, might use that in 2nd playtroug

[median heath]

Haven't looked at it in a bit myself, but iirc Green = Trained in from other outpost, not green = manufactured on-site.

So you have fun inter-outpost logistics trains 🙂

[viral ravine]

Woohoo choo choo!

[cyan hinge]

guys how can I make a line of 150 items two seprate lines of 120 and 30

[median heath]

With 1 splitter.

[snow dove]

1 splitter and a little patience

[summer flare]

You can find it in the Wiki under prime splitter arrays, it's the 1 to 5

[median heath]

Or, and far more simply... Just use one splitter.
No arrays. No complications. No complexities.

[boreal summit]

you can't just say "Only use one splitter" without further information as to why/how that method works.

[true junco]

Most of the time "balancers" just add unecessary complexity to a build. And if you are running at capacity of the belts you will actually cause stuttering. Tho i dont know why you would build a balancer when you are feeding multiple full belts into and out of it anyways.

[boreal summit]

Most people coming in asking questions like that don't understand what manifolds are and how they work

[true junco]

1 splitter isnt a manifold.

[mystic moon]

A single splitter isn't even a manifold... just a basic game mechanic

[boreal summit]

No, but it's the same concept

just let it fill and don't worry about splitting it to exact ratios

[true junco]

1 splitter is also a 1to3 balancer.

[mystic moon]

From what I've seen, most of the people that miss that are those that have taken little or no time to experiment/experience the game for themselves

[boreal summit]

Some people also just don't parse the information the game gives them in the same way everyone else does. Not all brains are built the same.

[median heath]

I can if I am not making assumptions as to their logic skills.
Which is why I say "1 splitter" and if they don't reply, they got it.
If they say "huh?" then I explain.

[true junco]

This is why i wish there was a "belt manual" like there is a pipe manual. Just having all those answers in a PDF so it doest need to be explained 100x per day. 😆

[median heath]

If you need a manual to explain what happens when you send 75 to something that can take only 30... idk what to tell you 🤷‍♂️

[delicate chasm]

Belts are continuously animated, so it not being immediately intuitive that they will stop taking items when full is understandable.

[median heath]

You and I understand very different things.

[delicate chasm]

It's also understandable for a very very new player to not want to find out the hard way, or to have not thought to savescum or whatever else.

Yeah a manual would be good.

TBF, I think your next personal evolution is going to be the higher concept of what is intelligible to another mind rather than what can be deduced by your own and then you will simply understand more things than I do.

[boreal summit]

This is exactly my point. Not everyone thinks, processes, or handles data in the same way. A lot of people can just intuit what's going on after playing for a bit, some people have more trouble with it. There's also some games that need you to be exact for maximum efficiency, whereas Satisfactory doesn't - and people coming from those sorts of games could be confused by the system that Satisfactory uses.

[delicate chasm]

Context matters; nobody exists in a vacuum. Nor do their concerns.

[boreal summit]

And just because you don't find something useful or necessary doesn't mean that others don't.

[median heath]

people coming from those sorts of games could be confused by the system that Satisfactory uses.

Because the concept of approaching a new game as its own thing instead of just assuming it works like other games you have played is... lost on people?
I am confused.

[delicate chasm]

Context matters. Nobody exists in a vacuum.

After Satisfactory, will you simply forget about all game mechanics and not think to try something you learned about in Satisfactory going forward to a new game?

Will you not check to see if you can slide-jump in the next first person game you play?

Being compartmentalized personally to the point where "attempting the action in this game is instanced and has no relationship with other times I have performed similar actions or made similar attempts" is fine and all, but hopefully if that's the case you can understand that this is where the deviation lies. Others are NOT compartmentalized like that.

[magic island]

I think on this specific topic, a lot of new players tend to view backed-up belts as "jammed", and that sort of jamming may even have been an issue they encountered with early failed layouts and that they want to avoid

so it may not be intuitive to new players that a backed-up belt can be helpful for splitting, rather than signifying a problem

[true junco]

I want a manual so it can be pinned and we can send it to people so we dont have to keep repeating ourselves. Ie. Explain it once and never again. I am just not a big fan of unecessary repetition.

[thorny cedar]

timmy and his apples are not enought?

what should we pin? grade one math books?

[median heath]

Wait until Timmy finds a pomegranite.

[true junco]

No. A belt manual. Just like the pipe manual.

[thorny cedar]

its not that

[true junco]

Then you think i am talking about something i am not.

[thorny cedar]

its that we over and over stupid questions like that... somehow sometimes i feel... i explaind my parents and grandparents how to use google... and somewhat ppl who are below 25 need the same explanation nowadays idk

why is my belt now using my 75 item per minute??!? ... bcs u dont read the 2 lines of description...

what is there to say

[snow dove]

Just don't tell him about the dragonfruits

[median heath]

There's a reason I take the "teach a man to fish" approach every time 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

What about kiwis?

[snow dove]

That'd blow his mind

[true junco]

Not sure what being from New Zealand has to do with it...

[snow dove]

no one seems to want to learn to fish sadly

[thorny cedar]

im highly alergic

[median heath]

Indeed 🙃
But I will keep using that approach.

[thorny cedar]

and i can fish 😎

but hey we could pin https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Conveyor_Belts

eze

[true junco]

That would be a good start.

[delicate chasm]

I don't think it's critical to make something so that people won't repeat themselves on the Discord... But the thing that gets repeated should at least be approachable, and it's hard to give someone a link to a guide while also making them feel Less Than without outright breaking the rules.

So I am in favor of that, because too often I see people taking out their unrelated frustrations from other users asking the same question on new users.

If you're at the point with helping where you're trying to save time on frequently asked questions, write a FAQ. 🤷‍♂️

[thorny cedar]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Manifold

belt balancing is not there

sushi is not there either

[wind spade]

nobody cares about belt balancing

[thorny cedar]

i was about to say does greeny manage the wiki aswell? XD

[median heath]

nobody cares about sushi

[wind spade]

I mean... https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Balancer

[thorny cedar]

i tried belt balancing

sorry

but yea

[thorny cedar]

you see the explanations are plenty

but ppl dont care

[true junco]

Might just put a copy of the comveyor manuals I already have somewhere to link to...

(Actual conveyor belt manuals. Lol)

[thorny cedar]

but you have the task to tell them... check the pins

😄

[true junco]

Yeah, but thats easy... ➡️

[echo geyser]

Quick question; Im remaking my iron based stuff factory, but I cant think of a way I can make a layout with mk2 miners look at least decent so should I just step back to mk1 or try to think of a better way for mk2 miners

[thorny cedar]

i dont understand

even the question what is exactly the problen?

the numbers?

[median heath]

look at least decent

What looks decent and not decent is entirely subjective.
If you don't like how it looks, delete and remake until you do. That's the only way you learn how you like to build things.

[magic island]

I don't know why the level of miner would affect your layout. there is no reason to ever use a lower level miner

[delicate chasm]

I'd definitely leave it at mk1 and just build mark 2 from the beginning at future sites.

[thorny cedar]

^infact you should overclock them as much as possible!

[median heath]

Not always.

[magic island]

if upgrading the miner means extracting more ore than you need, and you're struggling with a layout that uses it all, just clock it down to what you'll use

[thorny cedar]

NO not efficient otherwise

go get grilled overflow into a sink idk

[delicate chasm]

Having just done a build that I invested real time and effort in to... I don't foresee updating it to mk3 miner and expanding.

Temporary 'for unlocking' builds don't usually go in permanent build spots for me...but those are the ones I'd expand with mark 2 miners.

[echo geyser]

when I try to make a mk2 miner layout it comes out super messy and I really hate the look of it. But I can easily make a mk1 miner and it be clean

like a factory layout based on the production of the mk2 miner

[median heath]

Then either rebuild it until you're happy with it or just use the mk1 layout.

It is your save. Build how YOU want to.

[thorny cedar]

you know you split it once and you get 2 mk1 layouts next to each other ou of an mk2 miner?

[median heath]

Our input on how you build YOUR factory is irrelevant.

[thorny cedar]

if you dont like the mk2 setup

[echo geyser]

thing is ive been racking my brain for about 12 hours thinking about this, ive remade it at least a dozen times and I just dont like it

[magic island]

if the miner is putting out more than you need, reduce the clock speed

an mk2 miner clocked to 50% is a little more power-efficient than an mk1 miner clocked to 100%, so it's always worth the upgrade, even if only a little

[thorny cedar]

can you send a screenshot in here

[median heath]

Take a break 🤷‍♂️
Everyone who builds in a way that you think is "decent" or better started exactly where you are. And they just kept rebuilding until they were happy.

[thorny cedar]

i would like to see what you actually created by now

[delicate chasm]

I'd decide it based on this: Do I NEED that production in this location? And would it be a real PITA to bring in additional parts with logistics if so?

If you find that you don't need to expand that facility, then it's fine as-is.

Getting caught in an analysis paralysis loop is no fun. Can relate.

[echo geyser]

wym? like what I have for the iron factory rn? because I have literally nothing

[thorny cedar]

idk the difference in mk 1 and mk 2 its 30>60... 60>120 or 120>240

so its just double so the layout is just doubled?

bcs the belts double aswell by that time?

[echo geyser]

well I just made it to phaze 2 and I stupidly barely had production for space elevator parts, so I want to make some smart plating and stuff rn so that im sorta chillin when I get to phaze 3 and dont have to wait like 20 in game days for my parts to get made

[thorny cedar]

just buffer them

[echo geyser]

before I could just easily make mk1 miner >mk1 belt> 2 smelters but now I have to do mk2 miner >mk2 belt> 4 furnaces

[thorny cedar]

yea

[echo geyser]

and im at the place in grassy fields where those 3 iron nodes are so I want to make it compact

[amber jacinth]

That's progress, baby!

[median heath]

Game isn't going to get any less complex as you keep playing. Hence my advice to just keep rebuilding until happy because that is how you find your style of building.

[thorny cedar]

so 3 mk2 miner 3 mk2 belts and 12 funances

and you cant think about a 12 smelter setup compct?

idk

[amber jacinth]

Expansion is always neccessary in the game; it helps that space and resources are virtually infinite

[thorny cedar]

im lost on u

sounds like

timmy got 3 apples each apple is sliced to 4 friends how much friends does timmy have?

[magic island]

get comfy building very large spaces with lots of machines in them, because feeding 12 smelters from 3 nodes is still relatively small potatoes

[echo geyser]

yknow what, ill make the best design I can think of and send it in here and itll probably have some kind of stupid design lmao

[thorny cedar]

do it

you will learn and improve

[median heath]

Build what makes YOU happy.

[echo geyser]

I just know that once it clicks for me Ill be able to actually build

[amber jacinth]

Hey, we were all there at some point. No such thing as a stupid design, as long as it works how you want 🙂

[median heath]

That's the only factor that matters, is if YOU like it.

[delicate chasm]

I know how you feel. :)

I did a grass fields start in my most recent game and am tapping those 3 iron nodes for just iron plates.

Your sense of scale will grow with you, so my advice is to ease up off of yourself a little. I'm having way more fun doing stuff like this than I was for the last 500 hours I'd been playing prior.

[echo geyser]

thats the problem dude I cant lol, Ive made some pretty baller builds so far imo nice and compact but I just cant do that with this rn

[median heath]

Hence, take a break for a couple hours.
It's like trying to find something you lost. After looking for a certain number of hours you have to stop so your brain can reset.

[delicate chasm]

I'd also suggest heading to #design-and-architecture for some inspiration/motivation on the building!

Good luck!

(Also I apologize for posting yellow lights. That's what I just arrived on-site to fix.)

[echo geyser]

heres the most compact design I could think of. For just one. And this doesnt leave enough room for the same design on the second miner.

compact while still being symmetrical*

[thorny cedar]

so you cant see 2 more of that next to this or ontop of this or even behind this?

wait until you reach mk3

or you could add power shards and just have 2 smelter per miner

[magic island]

not enough room? how so?

you don't need to line up each quad of smelters exactly with their miner. easier to just place all 12 smelters in line and then hook up the miners

[median heath]

Not enough room? Build upwards. 😉

But also yeah... need to let go of the "things have to be perfectly and immediately aligned with miner" thing. That's not going to age well as you progress.

[magic island]

you can cleanly align absolutely anything else in your factory, but your miners and their initial connecting belts will always be that one bit of irreducible disorder. adds flavour imo

[median heath]

I just never consider miners as part of the building.

They are always just inputs from, wherever they are.
Sometimes not even close to the actual building.

[wind spade]

putting miners on foundations/aligning miners 🤢

[summer flare]

Put what you've got sideways and make a mirror. Merge all in the middle, feed down the middle above and split to each so distribution is balanced.

[median heath]

Or just manifold.

[boreal summit]

That's literally what they're describing?

[delicate chasm]

There's another smelter between these.

It looks like it's a balancer but it's really a manifold; the machines just simply aren't in a straight line. Maybe something like this suits your need?

[median heath]

Picture is balanced, not folded.

[boreal summit]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[delicate chasm]

Zig-zagging makes the smelter floor area have more depth while being less wide and this pattern fits in the 3 node section pretty neatly.

But at this point it's definitely #design-and-architecture moreso than math and meta because there's plenty of room to solve the problem (and you already have personally solved it).

[fierce ruin]

43.3333%

[clever urchin]

Okay so warped question, because I cannot for the life of me find an answer. How much fluid does a package of fuel hold? I want to know how many it'd take to fill an industrial fluid buffer

[wind spade]

well, technically it doesn't, it's just another item

practically it holds as much as you can put to it using the packaging recipes, which you can check in codex

[median heath]

Fluid is 1 unit per 1 unit whether packaged or not.
Also, don't use Fluid Buffers.

[clever urchin]

Any reason why not to?

[median heath]

They never help.

They either cause problems or they do nothing.

The only scenarios in which they should be used are Fluid Trains or aesthetics because you think they look pretty.

Fluid Trains is their only practical use.

[clever urchin]

I was thinking of having one for each segment of my fuel power plant. Basically sealed off with a valve and open the valve only if for some reason power fails so I can flood out the generators after working out whatever the issue is.

[median heath]

Why would the power ever fail?

[clever urchin]

I have no idea, I think I'm trying to think too far ahead to a future that will never exist

[median heath]

Fluid Trains is when you use them.
Otherwise it's just to look pretty if you really want that.

[wind spade]

I personally prefer building proper power than spending the same time making failsafes

[median heath]

Making a power failsafe is very practical IN REAL LIFE
In this game, it is a crutch that masks bad practices or root problems. So it is far better to not have the failsafe so you build things that always work and develope that habit.

[clever urchin]

True, checked out the actual hub factory 3/4 of the people are "working" at and one of the other longer term players has had the foresight to include different factory parts in priority power switches

[median heath]

In storage terms, and IFB can hold 2400 fluid units, where an ISC can hold 4800.
So another +1 to not using Fluid Buffers.

[clever urchin]

So yeah you're right, this is entirely pointless and has saved me 10 minutes

[median heath]

Always happy to help.

[vapid gorge]

look, that's AN option to restart and it's something you can do. I like building fail safes just incase a hiccup happens or update or using mods cause a weirdness, or jsut general accident.

But a simpler way to do it would be to build power storage that's disconnected from your power station to reboot things

[median heath]

Or just build power that doesn't fail 😉

[vapid gorge]

eh, dumb things happen, like accidentally removing a thing that breaks a system

[median heath]

And what you learn from that is not to remove things that break systems anymore 🙂

[true junco]

My goal is to make the system such that i can do a full black start simulation. Basically i plan on intentionally causing a black out and see how effectively i can bring everything back online.

I also like making things more complex than they need to be for my own entertainment tho. 😆

[wind spade]

isn't that just having a few separated networks, each one able to generate enough power to run the next one and the first one powered by geothermal? 🙂

[median heath]

I miss my "Fuel Train" world sometimes.

[true junco]

Probably. But I will be doing that after I max out uranium power and full recycling and probably pushing quite a few production limits in general.

Then doing something that blows all the fuses and see how quickly it can be brought back up. Kind of simulating disasters. 😆

[barren elm]

This seems more like roleplaying than meta

[true junco]

Oops. Forgot what room i was in.

[prisma kraken]

(little late in responding) a trick for this is to place the smelters along side the miner facing the opposite direction, it saves a tad of space that comes in handy in really tight spots like the north forest bluff, but you can also always just build vertically

[echo geyser]

@delicate chasm

first 4 smelters are for plates (plate factory is above) and they only make 120ppm obviously

good lord I messed up on a smelter for the rods as well.

@serene rapids the problem is I made THIS under the presumption I was making 240 iron rods and plates per minute, which I definitely was not. The solution would be to obviously produce 240 rods and plates per minute but im not sure if 3 mk2 miners can do that

[vapid gorge]

entirely depends on the recipes and clocking right?

Didn't we show you satisfactorytools.com ?

[deft lichen]

it is a bit difficult to work out how much of something you can make when working from the bottom up

if you instead choose "I want 10 RIPs/min" figuring out all the components is easy

[tepid flax]

How can I turn 10 x 300 + 120 into 16 x 187.5 + 90?

[oblique hollow]

overflow?

300 to 187.5 is an 8:5 balancer (remainder is 112.5)

and you would need 10 of those in all likelyhood if you actually tried to solve this

[wind spade]

That sounds like you didn't plan logistics before building machines 🙂

I'd clock the 187.5 to 150 and do 1:2

What is it for anyway?

[tepid flax]

Steal

[tepid flax]

sounds good

[fierce ruin]

uhm i don't know which one to choose. any suggestions?

[gaunt shore]

Right one is always right

[wind spade]

just do diluted fuel without turbo

[cinder silo]

You can run the entire show just fine with dilute, even some of the more colossal builds.

[fierce ruin]

for power the same number of fuel generators i would need something like that

[worn cove]

Hmm, my friend came up with this Factory when I asked him to work on Computers and related stuff. Pretty much Caterium Computers to the moon (+ bit of Copper), any thoughts? I bet there is something better, but I don't want to torture my friend to try to come up with something better

(Ignore rubber and Plastic stuff, those will be made somewhere else so we didn't care about that)

[fierce ruin]

I also wanted to make some packaged turbofuel for the jetpack, so making turbofuel would have been easier

[desert tangle]

Is there any way to track how long it takes a train to go from station a to station b in game?

[river night]

a stop watch? 😄

[barren hill]

Check the outflow per minute that's all that should matter

[prisma kraken]

two things for you... fused quickwire is made for such builds, and for ai limiters, a lot of math works out nicely if you clock the ai limiters down to 90%

[worn cove]

Yup, got the fused quickwire and thanks for the tip about ai limiters :D

[limber palm]

If the power plant is needed at an oil patch, and you need a certain amount of power, then use whatever recipe works, if you don't care much about how much oil it uses, and maybe don't need a certain amount of power, then diluted works well to startup a nuclear plant at least. The packaged turbo fuel could really be done just by 1 set of machines, that's what I am doing in my world at least.

[echo geyser]

I really, really hope I got my math right on this one cause theres a whole lot more spaghetti on the second floor 🙏

But i think I fixed my rod and plate problem!

Now I just need 10 power shards..

[desert tangle]

So this machine is overclocked to 200% but due to supply levels, its operating at 52%
So, if I reduce it to 104% (200/0.52), it should be operating at 100%, right?

assuming no other changes in supply etc

[prisma kraken]

I wouldn't count on the math for the efficiency to be exact

i would guess you're actually feeding it 90 scrap/min, and probably should have it set to 50%

[wind spade]

I would calculate how much is it getting and use that for clock speed

[prisma kraken]

that was kind of my point, guessing based on the efficiency percent is inexact

[wind spade]

and then you guessed by the 50% estimate

[prisma kraken]

right, saying i was guessing

[jovial moon]

@thorny cedar

750+850 fuel is 1600

thats what calculator means

[thorny cedar]

see #satisfactory

[blazing torrent]

@vapid gorge
first pic is the whole blender setup, i should build loops for inputs here as well, im just trying to get the outputs working for now. Note that the fluid buffers are just for show and the pipe passes thru them into pumps
second pic is how the blender outputs are connected
third pic is to show the length of the pipe entering the fuel gen factory, they later start making their way upwards. The pumps are fine with head lifts.
fourth pic is the fuel gen manifold. Each of the pipes going in is split into 2 such loops. Again buffer is just for show, the pipe passes thru

[vapid gorge]

First off - get rid of every single buffer and if you have valves remove them too

Ah nm

[blazing torrent]

already done, none of the buffers are connected and the valves are removed

[vapid gorge]

Read the description of the buffers

[blazing torrent]

at this point its just junctions and pumps

[vapid gorge]

Ok so the issue is the fuel is backing up in one blender?

And I assume some generators aren’t running because of that

Is that happening in each manifold or just some?

[blazing torrent]

yeah, it seems to be that. Although looking at the blenders now, some have 100% uptime, some 91%, some 95%, some 98%.... Should i try to let it run for like half an hour and see what happens?

[blazing torrent]

theyve been working with 100% uptime since the buffers were filled and connected, but what im suspecting is that once i disconnected them and the issues happened with the blenders the pipes freed up a bit and now its stabilising itself? Before every pipe had an issue with the final blender but now 2 of them are on 100% uptime

[vapid gorge]

It’s possible- it’s pretty cramped and hard to pick out exact layouts.

You haven’t merged and split the various fuel manifold’s together have you?

[blazing torrent]

yeah i might just let it run for a while and see, although i just saw one of the blenders lights turn yellow....

[blazing torrent]

No, its just 6 blenders into a single pipe, pumps to the correct floor, split into 2, each going into 25 fuel gens and there is a loop on each of those

[vapid gorge]

Good. What you should do then is turn off a couple gens in each manifold and let it flood.

Then come back in 10 min and check the blenders and gens to make sure is all flooded.

Turn on the gens and let it run. If you come back to it then you know you either have a build or math error

[blazing torrent]

alright, ill try that. Also i read on the wiki that its best to place junctions and pumps first, then connect pipes into them because it can create some tiny pipes inside and that can cause problems?

[vapid gorge]

Come back to it and have a problem *

It can but is generally not a problem if you’ve looped and flooded. Generally it’s easiest to build the junctions and pumps on the pipes and then just reconnect them

Also avoid floor holes

[blazing torrent]

oh ffs

[vapid gorge]

There’s an occasional bug with them - sometimes kills head lift

But with that sort of issue it’s very obvious as there’s no flow past it

[blazing torrent]

designed the pipe elevator with them to make it look cooler😅

[vapid gorge]

So unless you’re feeding the gens with floor holes, which doesn’t seem the case, I doubt it’s that

[vapid gorge]

Ah, well do like the buffers and clip through them

[blazing torrent]

yeah, i can do that

[vapid gorge]

That’s what most peeps did

Do*

Gonna nap, let me know if it’s still not working 🙂

[blazing torrent]

yeah, ill do school work and might work on it in the night, thanks for the help though, really appreciate it

[vapid gorge]

Anytime!

[thorny cedar]

hello math 3200 nitrogen is 800 nitric acid. 3200 nitrogen is 800 tanks per min. 800 nitric acid is 800 tanks per min am i right?

so its 800 packaged stuff no matter what i transport

just making sure

[oblique hollow]

packaged fluid is always 1:1

only gas is 1:4

so yeah, 800/min no matter what

[prisma kraken]

yeah, you can't get away from how many stacks it all takes with that, I actually am prefering at this point to build nitric acid at well sites so i don't need to transport the iron plates with it

...i think the northwest RD and blue crater nitro wells are particularly nice for the task

[edgy night]

ok so im back to playing this game after a break and the calculator site has changed and no longer has an option for "max" output calculation, having to put in a specific amount?
The one to which i replied to is the one im looking for which i thought was satisfactory-calculator.com but it looks completely different now. how to i get to that OG one?

[wind spade]

it does? it didn't change

[thorny cedar]

try pins try google try a ouija board

[edgy night]

yeah this is what it looks like for me, im assuming im not on the right page?

[wind spade]

you are not

I mean the screenshot you replied to is completely different right? 🙂

[edgy night]

yeah whats the right page then?

[wind spade]

Satisfactory Tools

[edgy night]

cheers, thats the one i was looking for

[visual kiln]

such a massive factory already and no turbofuel in your jetpack?

[snow dove]

biofuel> turbo any day

[visual kiln]

or that... just the basic one is pretty weak, and that's what I'm seeing in the pictures

[snow dove]

normal fuel is a nice horrible medium

[blazing torrent]

Save has 140 hours on it and 70 of that is just building that factory

Also didnt know that jetpacks could use turbofuel💀

[snow dove]

oh aero are the fuel gens working now?

also the different fuels for the jet pack is U8 only

[blazing torrent]

Not really. Removed all valves, buffers, made loop manifolds, and the blender outputs are still getting clogged

Contemplating just leaving it at that. Wiki says something about placing junctions and pumps first, then adding pipes, but idk if i can be asked to do something like that if it MIGHT work

[snow dove]

never placed pumps first, but placing junctions first might be a good idea

just removing then reconnecting pipes should be enough

[frosty owl]

If still in need, due to a lack of interesting things to do I can offer my expertise through screenshare to solve the issue if you wish ^^
DM if interested

[ember fractal]

I'm in process of making my uranium fuel rod facility

14.4 rods from 600 uranuium ore

that should be enough to run 72 nuclear power plants and produce 180,000 MW

[snow dove]

at that point you should graduate to measuring in GW

[ember fractal]

and it should be enough power to last me a while, i'll then shift focus to building bigger productions for end game items

[vapid gorge]

share some overhead pics?

[prisma kraken]

consider OC'ing the reactors to 2x for that, it makes the build a little less unwieldy

iirc, 225% also works and forces a different balanced geometry

[true junco]

Yeah. I mathed out the whole uranium power and waste disposal cycle. OCing is essential to my build plans.

[prisma kraken]

this is kind of the 'good math' for nuclear:

makes for building it modularly a lot simpler

its like 3x manf->3x manf -> 4xreactor-> (2 blender, 1 pa) -> 3x asm -> 2x maf

(i keep my notes on nuclear for building in chunks of 300 uranium/min)

[ember fractal]

that's my plan actually

[prisma kraken]

you can also substitute plut fuel unit for the default last step

depending on whether getting steel beams or pcc's to nuclear is easier

depending on the structure of my world, sometimes its easier to drone in the pcc's for plut fuel unit than to get heatsinks & steel beams into the nuclear build

the default pfr recipe is kind of a pain in the butt, lol

[true junco]

Im looking at something like this...

Tho the acid production is going to be scaled up for multiple replecarions of the plutonium and uranium fuel setups.

And the other supporting production is TBD and will scale to support multiple replications of those same uranium and plutonium setups.

Nuclear support (except for acids) not finalized

And the materials for those iterations

[prisma kraken]

btw, for the acid production, there's a couple of different ways of building it; the nitric acid prod and sulfuric acid prod each take exactly the amount of water the waste output produces... last time i built it, i had the nitric production being done off-site, so i used the wastewater to product sulfuric acid, but that required me to have an extractor to jumpstart things

i think what may be a cleaner way of doing it all is to produce the nitric acid on-site, and have an extractor & the wastewater output into the same pipe network to feed both the nitric and sulfuric acid production to avoid the jumpstart problem

it doesn't really matter in the long run, once nuclear is running, you aren't going to ever touch it again, but just a thought on building it more cleanly than i have in the past

[true junco]

Well. Tools draws the material flow lines where it wants. The stuff in those screenshots is mostly for the numbers required. Not representing the actual loops. That ill figure out later.

[prisma kraken]

btw, if you're looking to do max nuclear, i think its worth just breaking down and creating an iron-only beacon factory that makes 100.8/min somewhere and just get that messiness isolated to an easy (but large) factory to make

[blazing torrent]

@vapid gorge @frosty owl
So the pipe first collects all the fuel from 6 blenders, 100 fuel each, so it should fit just fine, then pumps into a long pipe into the factory. In the factory each floor is like ~40m tall, so whichever pipes continue upwards get a pump every floor. Maybe important to note is that there are floor holes the pipe goes thru. Then every pipe splits into 2x 300 in a junction and each of those goes into a loop manifold for 25 fuel gens. The buffers are not connected, pipe runs thru them. No valves in the system.

was told to route the pipes thru the floor holes, cause they might be causing problems but only god knows at this point. I can try it... Would it help to shut it all down, let it prefill again and then start it up? Since starting it up ive added the manifolds and removed the buffers and valves, so maybe that could have caused some problems? Just not very keen on manually turning 400 fuel generators off and on

Also, thanks for trying to help, really appreciate it

[frosty owl]

Ah, a good ol' 600/min issue situation...
Are you ok with screensharing? I find that the most convenient way to help, if aviable, @blazing torrent

[blazing torrent]

im in uni rn, but i might have some free time in the evening if thats alright with you

[frosty owl]

Aye, that should be fine. If you give me a heads-up ~an hour earlier, I can be sure to be ready in time ^^

[blazing torrent]

alright, will do, and thanks again

[wind spade]

@west wagon #screenshots message
it's not wrong, it's 5m3 of water or 5000 units of water

[true junco]

Yeah. Good chance ill do that. It was late and for some reason i didnt have the path set up in tools anymore and just rapidly put it together again.

[vapid gorge]

oh right, you never got it working? 😦 hmm well if it's u7 feel free to DM me the save, I could take a squeeze. It's often something simple

[blazing torrent]

ill try to solve it tonight with mr sushi eater over here thru stream, otherwise would be nice if you could maybe join into the world, would like to see the thought process behind the debugging. Thanks for the offer💙

[wind spade]

@heavy topaz relevant reading for your #screenshots post - #math-and-meta message

[vague ibex]

help compacted coal power is hard

thats 240.0002 btw

[median heath]

Almost no one does Compacted for power. They just do normal Coal until Fuel.

[vague ibex]

Okay I know but its satisfying once its already done

I've done this once a long time ago but I forgot the math I did

Besides I can just repurpose this for turbofuel later

[median heath]

Turbofuel for power 😭

[vague ibex]

My brother in christ you are not a divine authority on how to play the game

[median heath]

I never said I was?

[vague ibex]

Yes I know turbofuel isn't worth it. Fun is worth it to me

[prisma kraken]

did someone like totalxclipse just do a video on compacted coal power? i've seen a lot of people in the past day talking about building it

[oblique hollow]

work with multiples of 50 maybe.
50 compacted for 7 generators

[prisma kraken]

the 240.000002 is a rounding error, the actual number is (50/7) for ccoal/min, so the number rounds weird in a lot of calculations

if you carry the actual decimal to a few more precision points, using 7.142857 instead, those rounding errors are much less

but more generally, compacted coal power is a goofy thing to build, naturally wanting groups of 7 generators vs the 8 for normal coal... imho it isn't worth it rather than finding a coal rich site (twin lakes, nf bay, etc) and just building straight coal power, allowing you to save the sulfur for better uses

but play how you want to, you could always later use the compacted coal for making steel

[vague ibex]

I knew about solid steal and coke steel but I did not know there was a compacted coal recipie

I must've overlooked it

Looks like it will either go to turbofuel or steel later then

[prisma kraken]

its pretty good, compacted steel will turn 1200 iron + 600 compacted coal into 2000 ingots

sulfur is too rare to really do that with all your steel production, but in an iron rich area, it can dramatically increase the steel you make

what i favor doing is to take a couple of pure iron nodes, convert 180 from each into iron ingots for coated iron plate (or whatever) and pushing the rest into compacted steel

for that, the numbers work out rather nicely when your making a mod frame megabuild

[oblique hollow]

its rare but with a bit of planning its quite decent

since you can do max nuclear and still have around 2/3rds of your sulfur left

[median heath]

Best steel spot on the map is partly the best steel spot on the map because it has access to Compacted Steel.

[prisma kraken]

meaning anywhere but rocky desert 😄

[wind spade]

I thought best is subjective

[median heath]

[delicate chasm]

If you use enough qualifiers you can solve anything.

[thorny cedar]

this is not the right channel for that why not ask them?

[wind spade]

maybe this as well? 🙂

[hasty comet]

this machine, my dear friends, does the same as 1 splitter.

[chilly nexus]

And after he built one half of the machine he forced me to copy and mirror it 😊

[hasty comet]

it is build by a genius

[true junco]

But was it designed by one? 🤔 ... 😆

[hasty comet]

yep sadly

took a while

[oblique hollow]

if you go too big brain, you might turn into small brain.
Hard to say which is the case here

[hasty comet]

i forgot that the input is just 120p/min and built a machine that splits it into perfect 45p/min

[wind spade]

and then you realise manifolds exist and you get rid of this entirely 🙂

[hasty comet]

omg fr

[chilly nexus]

he currently is getting rid of it

[magic island]

build a glass case around it as an aesthetic feature

[hasty comet]

im a pro and a noob at the same time

im getting rid of 1/4 of that thing

bc that part isn't even working

[chilly nexus]

you spent like 3h to copy it

and failed

[wind spade]

just do

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[hasty comet]

yeah ik

now

[oblique hollow]

this seems overly complex for something that turns 120 into 45s

[hasty comet]

seemed to be the easiest way

i first split it into 3x15 and then handled the rest split by 3

or smth like that

[oblique hollow]

3 x 15 is a bit low, 120 yields 8 x 15

[hasty comet]

like 3 pieces of 15 and the rest was split

and then merged it

[oblique hollow]

why'd you delete and reupload

[magic island]

goofed part of the diagram

[oblique hollow]

split into 2 x 60 > split into 4x 30 > split into 8x 15 would have been what I'd done

since 75 seems unneeded here

[magic island]

well, the 75 is just the leftovers, which I assume are going somewhere or the thing will just fill up and overflow regardless

[hasty comet]

thats what it does

the rest is just getting it in the machines

dont ask

please

[worn vortex]

What's the most efficient meathid to do fuel power I've got the diluted fuel research as well just completed t6 and I want to regig everything before moving into t7/8

[median heath]

Diluted is the highest conversion rate and is very simple to set up.

Provided you have the HOR alt as well.

[deft lichen]

you can create (or download) a blueprint for diluted packaged fuel, which makes building it a bit easier

packager-refinery-packager

[frosty owl]

Do you like to make diagrams for people?
Could I ask you if/to make some diagrams in the future?

[soft trail]

The Blueprint Designer only fits a 5x5 grid (horizontally) of Power Storage buildings, right?

[thorny cedar]

yea i think you can fit 5 storage thingies yea

[soft trail]

I thought when I did it, it was only 5x5

[thorny cedar]

storage is a bit smaller then a foundation

[soft trail]

It's like half a storage building remaining if you align it against the edge, right?

[thorny cedar]

ppl dont understand even if you would dance the diagram for them 😄

[frosty owl]

What are you talking about?

[worn vortex]

What's HOR alt?

[wind spade]

alternate recipe for HOR (heavy oil residue)

[worn vortex]

Ah

[median heath]

3 Oil = 4 HOR + 2 Poly
6 second cycle time

[worn vortex]

Not sure if I do

But I'll keep a look out for it

[wind spade]

@fervent bison see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[fervent bison]

Thank you!

[delicate chasm]

Satisfying: Pure Caterium + Pure Copper -> Fused Quickwire.

NOT satisfying: 480 Caterium ore/min using fused quickwire for caterium circuit board/caterium computer gives you...49.655/min. 😭 So close.

[prisma kraken]

more satisfying: change an assembler making ai limiters to 90% clock rate

[prisma kraken]

also, i think if you add in the caterium for cat computer, the numbers work out for that nicely

ehh, it kinda works, but the numbers are still a little messy

kind of where those numbers want to be sized:

which actually isn't half bad

[delicate chasm]

Yeah at 580 it all works rather nicely. If that were exactly 50/min from 480 ore I'd have built it, but I'm gonna wait. I was considering doing it anyway with electrode CB but then I remembered why I don't use electrode CB when I plugged it in to tools.

[prisma kraken]

i'm not crazy about how those numbers line up, its just kind of where they hit before you exceed belt capacities

i'm laying out 2 bp's that are meant to go together in the same manifold and was cabling them up for power, did this before realizing what i had done:

[frosty owl]

Satisfying: with Pures and Fused Quickwire, 6 Quickwire = 1 Caterium Ore and 1 Copper Ore. Easy maths

[wind spade]

@fierce ruin for alt recipe choices see #math-and-meta message

[delicate chasm]

@prisma kraken So yeah that chain is what set me on the path of looking for hidden threes and finding that three solves a LOT of this game's math in one way or another. Hence my three truther shtick. :)

[prisma kraken]

this is pretty much the way hmf's look for me:

i need to figure out where to pull in an extra 30 pipe to square the numbers, but there's usually excess

the hard part is the mod frames 🙂

[delicate chasm]

This is the only HMF chain I've built in-game from nodes:
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=pnjpmmsge8ZmSbu20q0I

I just went ahead and overflowed each step for a trickle into storage then overflowing to sink, starting with 600 iron and coal. I recall the modular frames I also underclocked, but I don't remember why. The ratios are really easy though. You don't have to actually do very much math if you follow this chain.

Adding plastic and rubber do make it much better, but I've not tried it in-game.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i feel coated iron plate & steel coated plate are very underappreciated recipes

i guess people just don't like importing plastic into an iron or steel build 🤷

that being said, the flexible frame hmf alt isn't very good

it does have an interesting bit of trivia though, overclocking it to 250% exceeds what you can push on a belt

[true junco]

Does it?

Also. I really like the productivity of steel coated plate. Not sure what the real advantage of coated iron plate is vs steel coated plate.

[median heath]

Coated Iron is just Iron, that's the "advantage"
But if you use Coke Steel, you're still staying in the Iron + Oil only realm, so 🤷‍♂️

[true junco]

There is significant advantage to eliminating the production of iron ingots entirely replaced with steel ingots (huh, just like real life). Simplifies things in a lot of ways.

[median heath]

I definitely think Flexible HMF will get touched in the rebalance tbh.

[true junco]

I was trying to figure out a good way to use flex frame a while ago...

[median heath]

It pairs with Steel Screw really nicely tbh.

1 Constructor @ 1.5 gives you the 1:1 building ratio.

[true junco]

Hmmm. This fits into 1BP

3 assemblers and 3 constructors.

Just need to feed it steel and plastic

@prisma kraken probably should continue the math and meta in math and meta. Lol

But yeah. In the long run RIPs are mostly for getting MFs and default Oscillators. So it really only matters depending on how much of those you want. Oscillators being pretty powerful additives in a lot of alts.

[prisma kraken]

absolutely agree on oscillators, but if your using the default recipe, you can fit the entire factory into a blueprint using stitched plate & iron wire... i do that sometimes to get oscillators cooking before i have the rubber for the good recipe

[median heath]

Heavy Oscillating Frame when?

[prisma kraken]

that's like a 'i'm going to spend some time in phase 3 instead of moving on'

[true junco]

That and you have to find a decent way to get quartz and oil products into the same place. Its a lot easier to make default Oscillators.

[prisma kraken]

right

marshalling quartz, caterium & rubber into the same spot isn't easy

[true junco]

That said. I think once i finish making the west coast oil into mostly fuel for power, ill turn all the resin to residual rubber and bring that together with the quartz thats just east of there. There is quite a bit of caterium on that coast too.

[prisma kraken]

good spot for it, yeah

[prisma kraken]

i may be sort of stuck in designs from previous playthroughs, but i like using the caterium & oil on the west coast for some power (because the space is so wide open) and for making HSC's, since you have that crazy limestone concentration a bit further north too

[true junco]

I dont like building offshore.

So. Theres actually NO space there imo. Lol

[prisma kraken]

all i have going on there in my current game is a 40gw blended tf plant

the decision on that is 'what's the closest oil to a sulfur node i don't yet have plans for'

[true junco]

Hmmm. A decently close set of quartz, caterium and oil here

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'm using the sulfur nearby at the coal lake for steel and the other lake forest sulfur for batteries

[true junco]

Here?

[prisma kraken]

give me a sec

i'm just using all of that already

i could do it differently, but you have to pick a plan and stick to it 😛

[true junco]

Yeah. Ive abandoned any plans thst involve using anything in NF. The game stutters badly there for me in U8 now. And all i have there is the geysers and a trainstation.

[prisma kraken]

i can't wait to get building elsewhere, it gets hurty at times

there's just no place better on the map for mega-hmf though

maybe dune desert, but that's a different playthrough 🙂

[true junco]

Anywhere that the game runs is better than NF for any purpose for me for the time being. 😆

[prisma kraken]

home base for me is lake forest, figured it would be a good spot

but perf really does tank hard in NF

they have to do some stuff about that

[true junco]

Definitely.

[prisma kraken]

i'm not sure css understands how bad it is for some people still

[visual cove]

or maybe, and this is a long shot, they're working on an update to bring the game onto a new game engine so they can start to fix the performance issues in northern forest and other areas of the map.

[oblique hollow]

lmao

they already upgraded to Unreal engine 5, why switch to an entirely new game engine

[visual cove]

where "new" is "a version of UE that is not 4"

[wind spade]

see #math-and-meta message

[patent lily]

question, is it a good idea to loop the water from the NFU Blender back into the Sulfuric Acid Refineries with no external fluid supply? so NOT like the calculator shows me how to do

[thorny cedar]

either acid is fine

sulfur or nitirc

[median heath]

It perfectly supplies either the Sulfuric or Nitric Acid.
So take your pick.

[thorny cedar]

booth are closed loops after

[patent lily]

ive since built the thing and filled all the fluid buffers

ive looped it into the sulfuric production

[median heath]

Delete the buffers.

[thorny cedar]

no need for the buffer

[patent lily]

howcome?

[median heath]

They don't help.

[thorny cedar]

bcs closed loops are closed

intake=output

[median heath]

They either do nothing or cause issues.

The only practical use of fluid buffers is in concert with fluid trains.

[patent lily]

huh

[thorny cedar]

in my case i do more than 600m³ excess water so i split just booth parts in 2

each side is a closed loop

[median heath]

They either do nothing or cause issues.

What is confusing about this?

[thorny cedar]

and just flooded the water side befor cickstarting the thing full

[patent lily]

im wondering if i have excess water in the blenders they stop working

[leaden depot]

I'm having trouble figuring out why I have extra power from my coal plants. I have 42 plants at 221%, fully efficient. They say 165.8 MW each, which should be ~6963MW. But my power circuit shows stable at 7248.8. There are no other generators on this circuit. What gives?

[patent lily]

and the waste piles up

[thorny cedar]

they wont if the ammount is less 600m³

and pipes are set up correctly

[patent lily]

yes

2x600 pipes

[median heath]

Yes, if you have excess they stall.
But you are perfectly supplying a system, so you will never have excess.

[thorny cedar]

yea and loop around intake pipes on each side feed if possibble from above the loop and pump it if needed

and that is pretty much as solid as it can be

[patent lily]

so just remove the buffers

and only fill the water? not sulfur?

[thorny cedar]

if it works with the buffer it should work without them aswell

i pumped in water into the nitric acid made nitric acid and let the blenders fill aswell sulfur should be the same

when that was full i cut the packager

and started adding the uran/waste/plutonium to kickstart the thing

no issius at all

so i basically filled the entire system except a bit of pipe and the blender outputs

the last blender goes up to 50% internal buffer but it does so for the past 500 hours

i could flush the pipe segment befor until its empty to fix that but i dont even bother

[wind spade]

the tool just shows resource flow, how you manage that is up to you 🙂 (as there's almost infinite possible ways)

[hearty dome]

Question regarding train station unloading. I have a train with two cars carrying ~1530 plastic per minute with a round trip of 4:40. One of the cars was filled at 960/m (2x Mk4 belts). The problem I'm having is, the unloading station isn't finishing by the time the train arrives again. What can I do to fix this?

[delicate chasm]

Use mk5 belts to unload is the short answer.

If you do a search in this channel for train throughput you'll find where it's been mathed out for real throughputs. It's always less than the belt capacity going in or out of a platform because of loading and unloading times.

[median heath]

Add another car.

[hearty dome]

If I shift a little of the load from one car to the other at the loading station, would that work with just Mk4 belts if I'm within the calculated throughput?

[median heath]

Depends on if your "calculated throughput" is below the maximum limit given your trip time.
If it isn't you have to add another car, because it's impossible to push the amount you want if you're trying to exceed the max theoretical.

[delicate chasm]

I'm lazy, and unbothered by head space in cars, so if I'm moving enough to need a train (and that's kind of rare tbh), I just calculate the throughput as if it were 1 belt to a station and ignore the load/unload time. Then I actually double belt the stations.

If you're only shooting for 50% per car, you'll have to take the long way round the island to miss your mark.

[stuck thunder]

is there a list of reccomended areas for certain factories?

[mystic moon]

Wherever it fits

[delicate chasm]

No, but plenty of people would be interested to know where you decided to place everything, if you make such a list yourself.

[stuck thunder]

no i mean, reccomended areas for where i should produce certain items

[delicate chasm]

We don't have a collective one, but it'd be fun to see somebody else's take on a world arrangement.

[stuck thunder]

i mean if someone used a pathfinding alg to the nodes, you could find the most optimal place for stuff

[delicate chasm]

You'd find optimal potential spots for individual things, sure, but the level of complexity involved with different recipe chains and calculating an overall 'best' is beyond what anyone has undertaken.

And we have seen some massive mathematical undertakings.

[stuck thunder]

well, you would just need to figure out exactly what of each item you would want produced from the whole world

then you could just work backwards

[delicate chasm]

Most people willing to do such a calculation aren't able; most who are able won't see value in a theoretical solution that only makes sense on paper. Playing the game is itself solving this puzzle.

[stuck thunder]

or like me, i CAN do it

im just too lazy to

[delicate chasm]

Yeah, that's how a lot of folks lay out their save. But hardly anybody is done doing it. 😉

Somebody was doing the distance from node calculation a few months ago, before u8 exp dropped I believe. Let me see if I can find it.

[oblique hollow]

you would get a hotspot map that gets overlaid with 5000 other ones because theres multiple ways to produce an item

Theres already a dozen variations just for reinforced iron plates

[stuck thunder]

not if you did this ^

you figure out factories first, then do locality after

[oblique hollow]

that still implies "i need this item"
"ok, pick a recipe for it"

given how flexible factories are hotspot maps seem like too much work

would you really use them?

[true junco]

Somebody was working on a heatmap for determining optimal locations a while ago... dont know what became of that.

[stuck thunder]

i would use areas becuase they would be worth the work

but finding the areas is more work than worth

[delicate chasm]

#math-and-meta message

[main dirge]

@stuck thunder tbh doesn't really matter for most resources or it depends on other nearby resources and what you need, but for oil it's probably spire coast, half the oil in the game is nearby and there's plenty of water nearby. Otherwise it really depends on what you're using it for and how much you need.

Also blue crater and the west beach probably suffice for most needs and also have lots of water

[stuck thunder]

im thinking endgame

not middle

[main dirge]

Spire coast definitely then for oil

[stuck thunder]

like getting a true best senario world

[main dirge]

Bauxite I'd say there's an argument for as well since it's distributed in a line, but it depends how you move quartz and sulfur about

Lake forest is probs the best contender for a 100% consumption bauxite factory since it's the only big water source in the middle of the map

[stuck thunder]

bauxite has a meta area

[main dirge]

For using all the world's bauxite at a single "beat" location only lake forest would be able to keep up with water need

[stuck thunder]

bauxite can be water bootstappoed

[main dirge]

Though it'd probably be better to just use multiple factories

[stuck thunder]

if you have alt recipes

[main dirge]

Depends how much you need

[stuck thunder]

which reduces the need for water like (30% iirc)

[main dirge]

For the build I'm working on I can't get away with the water saving bc I have 10/m bauxite leftover after production and 200/m sulfur/quartz

All situational really

[wind spade]

and then realise that using the whole world of resources is impossible 😄

because of performance issues

[main dirge]

It'd probably be better to build separate factories to the East and West if you want to handle the output logistics

[stuck thunder]

thats a different problem lol

skill issue on the devs

[wind spade]

well given that it's a real problem, I see no reason to plan whole map, instead I'll just plan one item after another

[main dirge]

Thought it was only if you underclocked? Unless I'm mistaken and wasting my time on this thing 🥲

[stuck thunder]

just rent a supercomputer to run the game

[wind spade]

no, many people with pretty much maxed PCs have saves that are already almost unplayable and yet far from using all the resources on the map

[stuck thunder]

ez

[wind spade]

you can probably ask one of them for their save to check how it runs on your pc 😉

[main dirge]

I don't think my research supervisor would let me have the booking

Unfortunately

[stuck thunder]

so tldr, maximize power, minimize building useage, then build the factories after

[main dirge]

Should just be able to run satisfactory on the in-game supercomputers smh

0/10 bad game design

[stuck thunder]

long distance factories shouldnt render items being built, it should just do the raw math

[delicate chasm]

Does that particular machine actually HAVE the hardware to do just...gaming?

[main dirge]

Depends what you consider a game

Could probably set up a binary to run essentially a TAS

[delicate chasm]

I very much mean software such as Satisfactory. =p

[main dirge]

No graphics so no :p

[delicate chasm]

I was gonna say...

[main dirge]

Which is very funny for something made mostly of GPUs

[main dirge]

Maybe the reason I'm having no issues is bc all my production is paused via power switch tbh

So may be able to finish the build, just never see it running 🥲

[thorny cedar]

just build it all... turn it on and go shopping 😄

come back after 20 minutes see whats happened

and maybe by the time you finish you backed up enought money for a proper compute and not just a pc 😛

[main dirge]

I can turn on one at a time rn and they run fine, though being in the presence of 50% oil consumption causes some issues

Idk if I'll ever finish it but the maths is fun and big building is fun

[thorny cedar]

hm 35k items per minute is max oil. half of that is not that much in perspective to be fair

but it is alot of buildables if not overclocked tho

[main dirge]

Yeah the one I've got should make 9 mk5 plastic and 7.5 rubber (except it doesn't bc first time building on that scale was a learning curve)

Would run out of shards v quick 😂

[thorny cedar]

does not matter what it does the outcome for plastic and rubber is the same with all the alt rec

just add it up

[main dirge]

Would love to clock up water gens but is just nukes and miners rn

[main dirge]

Slightly less rubber than plastic for same oil

[median heath]

I would overclock water before nukes as it simplifies nukes considerably.

[median heath]

Incorrect. Recycled Loop is 1 Oil = 3 Product either way.

[main dirge]

Huh have to check my maths then

[thorny cedar]

its the same

if you break of intervals you get diff numbers yea but overall without waste it should ammount to a total

[main dirge]

Was thinking of overclocking water for nukes spefically, 100% uranium is one of my goals so it's taking a lot of space

More annoying is the patch of water that isn't there East of the swamp right where I'd put half my water extractors

[median heath]

OCing Water Extractors gets you 1:1 ratio with nukes and you need only mk1 pipes to do it.

[thorny cedar]

ocing both still keeps you at a 2:1 ratio and saves lots of space

[median heath]

Meh. I like my 1:1

[main dirge]

Yeah I'm definitely overclocking the nukes themselves bc I cba to automate SCs

Only got HMFs at like 260h lol

[stuck thunder]

tbh water extractors should have a smaller footprint

[median heath]

No.

[thorny cedar]

na

[main dirge]

It's fine tbh they just need blueprints and global snapping

And settings copy paste

[thorny cedar]

thats my current production and use per minute and i got so much body of water left its unbelivable no worries on that

[main dirge]

Tbh really like where extractor size is at, pushes you to use shards and make satellites at the right times

[thorny cedar]

yea i devided the map into segments to produce parts

lots of planning

[vapid gorge]

Or use Big Water extractor mod and over clock them for 1 extractor to 5 nuclear gens 😛

[thorny cedar]

1.0 me and farmit are 🤝 i will totaly garden the things out of the stuff

[frank halo]

So, trying to figure out the math here... 4 m3 per 100 per minute, is that 400m3 per minute?

[delicate chasm]

4m3 is the amount per batch (cycle).

100 is the rate per minute. It's just 100m3 per minute.

[snow dove]

the per minute values are the per minute values, don't overthink it

[true junco]

It would be less confusing if they put the units with the "per minute" values. This happens a lot.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that question does come up often

[delicate chasm]

Related: I dislike the per-cycle display of recipes that require you expand them to see the actual rates.

[median heath]

Would be simpler if they went back to the original system. 🙂

[frosty owl]

It makes my saturated sushi easier

[thorny cedar]

the one with barrels and no pipes?

[frosty owl]

Back when fluid could be easily moved in high throughputs

[quartz lava]

so i got an issue in my factor a part arrives at 26/min and i got to split it into 6/min and 20/min. Is it possible to make a balancer for this?

[true junco]

Maybe.

Inbeforeeveryone: "but why build a balancer at all?"

[quartz lava]

well i got no over production for the part

[wind spade]

you don't need a balancer for that

you can just use a manifold

[quartz lava]

it doesn't run at a 100% with a manifold

[wind spade]

you need to wait until it fills up

or prefill manually

[quartz lava]

i know but after a while it still tend to dip

[wind spade]

then it didn't yet fill up

[true junco]

If things dont run 100% with a manifold, they wont run 100% with a balancer. Because if the machines you are feeding can only use what you provide they will run at 100% no matter how you provide the feed, which means that if you are not supplying enough to match what the machines can consume, it wont matter how you feed because it will never be enough.

[dense nebula]

can someone help me and my friend build a good efficient iron factory with 3 pure sources and mk2 belts

[wind spade]

what do you want to make? in what quantity? what recipes you want to use?

[worn cove]

(Also for future, don't post the same question on multiple channels, especially not related to the question >.> #design-and-architecture message)

[dense nebula]

like iron rods and plates and the basic stuff for begining in a way that it isnt ugly and you dont know where what is

[wind spade]

that answers only one of my three questions, and not ideally 😄

[dense nebula]

i saw a few videos that build it in like a tower and it saves much place i want something like that so that it looks nice, quantity as much as pocible with the sources we have

can you help us maybe?

[wind spade]

space is not a concern, the map is gigantic and you won't run out

unless you specify exactly what you want to build and how much, we can't really help you

there's a big difference between factory that makes 10 iron plates and factory that makes 200 modular frames

[dense nebula]

yeah but doest look nice if theres like 25 construcors i a row

[wind spade]

idk I like rows of machines 🤷‍♂️

we can help you make it efficient (although that's just calculating production so that things are in ratio), but we can't help you make it nice, as that's heavily subjective 😛

[dense nebula]

I want smt like this

That gos more upward then width

[wind spade]

well then build it

[dense nebula]

Thats the thing i dont know how to place the things so it is most efficient

[wind spade]

where do you place things does not affect efficiency at all

[dense crescent]

Guess it’s only a matter of experience

[dense nebula]

i am noob in building like this

[wind spade]

if you're talking about visuals, just look up some tutorials or check #screenshots for inspiration, or experiment on your own

if you're talking about efficiency, there are calculators in pins and in #welcome

but neither of those affects the other

[dense crescent]

@true junco @somber folio

[dense nebula]

Ok lets say i wozld only go for efficeny and build smt like this:

M