math-and-meta

[rustic patio]

Is there a list where i can see which recipes changed from U7 to U8?

[deft lichen]

None

[rustic patio]

oops, i meant u6 to u7, sorry

[deft lichen]

The answer is yes but it's complicated

We have the U6 and U7 docs, meaning they can be diffed

But then you have to read them manually

Actually I don't think there were any changes either

[rustic patio]

but no changes relevant to tools, right?

[deft lichen]

None I think

Both U7 and U8 have new buildings but no recipe changes

[rustic patio]

yea, someone on the german discord claims satisfactorytools is broken and outdated

asking here to confirm my assumption that it is neither broken nor outdated

[deft lichen]

The power usage listing is outdated

Well and it's outdated by claiming U6 is experimental

[rustic patio]

i think they mean their u6 website is experimental

at least thats how i interpretied it

if not then thats a weirdly simple thing to not change

[deft lichen]

Greeny is rewriting the tools from the ground up

Probably too occupied by that

[rustic patio]

ahhh, that makes sense hten

excited to see what hes building

[rustic patio]

is it known why he does that? just to clean stuff up or does he want to add new things that require a rewrite?

[deft lichen]

You can ping him

He might've told me but I can't recall the reason

[rustic patio]

yea, but if u knew itd have been simpler to just ask you

oh, didnt even need to ping, he could sense himself being mentoinned lol

[deft lichen]

Speak of the devil

[rustic patio]

he was offline like 2 seconds ago too

[wind spade]

Future-proofing, supporting multiple game versions, changing tech related things like front-end framework to something more recent and maintained, making code less spaghetti and prepared for future expansions of features (e.g. mod support), etc.

First step being writing docs parser for wiki and tools, which is pretty much done (new wiki runs on data from the parser)

Longer version of this tldr is on Tools discord in announcement channel a few messages back

[deft lichen]

I hope it's going well 😄

[wind spade]

Not much work done this month given "vacation period" lol

[rustic patio]

ah, so mostly rewriting to make sure it doesnt die of spaghettiness

makes sense

[wind spade]

Coming home at beginning of August, hoping to get some work done after that

[wind spade]

Main reason is that it would be very hard to implement new features I wanted to old code

Biggest one being supporting multiple versions

Currently it's just a different website running on a subdomain

Which is pain to maintain and to transfer saved production lines between

[regal bobcat]

say i want to move bauxite to a specific spot to refine it into aluminum. what's the most efficient way to do that? the distance is about 1km, not counting the ~240 meters of vertical separation

im trying to think in terms of more than just the mode of transport itself. im thinking a train is probably the way to go but idk if it should be moved as the raw ore, or refined into alumina solution first, etc

[dusky zenith]

I found one recipe that is outdated, Polyester Fabric. That recipe is incorrect on tools. Didnt notice until the very last refinery i was placing and it screwed up all my numbers 😂

[rustic patio]

WAIT THATS WRONG??

on one of my factories i got the numbers wrong because of oil fabric, i thought i made a mistake but it seems it mightve been tools

[dusky zenith]

yeah its off by like x10

[rustic patio]

funky

[dusky zenith]

it says like 160 resin + 100 water -> 10 fabric with 2 refineries but its like 10 water + 10 resin -> 10 fabric with 1 refinery (all in per minute)

[vapid gorge]

@worthy cobalt ok so how are yo ufor full map spoilers?

[dusky zenith]

its off by a lot

[rustic patio]

this is in u6 version

[worthy cobalt]

Not really worried about spoilers

[rustic patio]

maybe u used u5

[brittle kayak]

Things to consider:

• Does it compress easily? If you have 1 item going in and 1 item coming out, it doesn't matter where you refine it, per se.
• What are the stack sizes of each refinement stage?
• Does moving it somewhere else require more than just a belt or a some other means of transport (truck, drone etc).

[vapid gorge]

ok so if you've fiddled with the graphic settings and just CANT get the stuttering to stop. and you don't wan tto give up w hat youve worked on you can use SCIM https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map#2;50302;0|gameLayer|bauxiteImpure;bauxitePure;bauxiteNormal;oilImpure;oilNormal;oilPure;ironImpure;copperImpure;copperNormal;ironPure;copperPure;ironNormal;coalImpure;coalNormal;coalPure;quartzPure;quartzNormal

[dusky zenith]

maybe. i am on whatever the default is, is that u5 or u6?

also im wrong its not 10->10 its 30->30

[vapid gorge]

you can load your save file in the top right and select sections to create a 'mega print' file you can download

then you'll want to load a fresh u7 save and paste the mega print there - there's youtube step by step tutorials how to do that yo ucan find easily

[elder cypress]

I like to move my ore around for this rather than transport liquids around. But consider what resources you have for processing at the location you are mining ore and moving the ore/ solution too.

[worthy cobalt]

Alright awesome I’ll give this a try thanks

[vapid gorge]

You'll also need to fiddle with the save settings as to what you've unlocked or not - you can change alt recipes , tiers unlocked all that stuff - though if you have a bunch of items already being automated and saved it might be easier to just re unlock stuff? Up to you 🙂

[worthy cobalt]

Yeah we can just unlock it all again no problem there

[twin lantern]

Is this an okay location to post a recipe pic and ask for peoples opinion?

For which to choose./

[median heath]

Yes, but we're going to explain what each does.
The choice is still yours to make.

[twin lantern]

Okay, im not new to the game, but im further than ever before and I am trying to progress, thanks.

[median heath]

Drop the pic whenever.

[twin lantern]

Its scanning, thanks.

I accidentally rerolled like a doofus.

[vapid gorge]

it happens 😄

[median heath]

I know I said we would just explain, but....

3. No contest.

[twin lantern]

Okay, so that destroys Iron Alloy Ingot.

[median heath]

No?

Why would a Copper Ingot recipe have any effect on your Iron Ingot recipes?

[twin lantern]

oh, nevermind, i see my idiocy there

Okay, # 3 it is.

Need to redo the copper production now lol

Gives me something to do.

Got three more to go lol

[vapid gorge]

only if you need more copper in that location - if regular smelting is doing you for now why change it?

Just because you have the recipe doesn't mean you have to use it - use it when you want to build a factory and have spare iron but need more copper

[twin lantern]

Fair, I really... don't.

[vapid gorge]

There yah go 😄

You end up needing more copper later in the game when you get to computing stuff

Alt recipes gives you options on build choices in different locations - that's all 🙂

Like Iron Wire lets you build wire products w/o needing copper nearby - often very useful since those items generally already require iron

[twin lantern]

I literally just unlocked supercomputers about 30 minutes ago

[fierce ruin]

i wish i had that recipe right now.

[vapid gorge]

well with the right alt recipes you can make computers entirely out of caterium and oil 😄

might make super computers easier

[twin lantern]

I will hold of on making any drastic decisions until I have these other hard drives done.

[vapid gorge]

The are VERY useful - especially the bauxite ones

[twin lantern]

I just got done redoing my Iron Alloy plant, should do about 1,000 a minute, I know thats nothing, but im happy

[vapid gorge]

You can do a lot with 1000 ingots per min

heck with the right recipes that's like 20 hmf pm

(and other resources ofc)

[twin lantern]

Yeah, I need to venture to oil while I wait for other harddrives, need more plastics for the computers/supers

[vapid gorge]

Depending on how much of either you want there's some very good oil combinations that make plastic/rubber more complex but gets you TONS more

[twin lantern]

Okay, i will setup my train line to oil before setting up production lol

[vapid gorge]

It's mostly useful doing that with very big factories in mind, but can still be v useful

[twin lantern]

Trains?

[vapid gorge]

the oil alts

[twin lantern]

ah yes

[vapid gorge]

trains are just cool 😄

[fierce ruin]

train go wooo wooo

[twin lantern]

#2 coming up

[vapid gorge]

Interesting choices
if you look at the requirements it gives you a pretty good idea of the benefits

[twin lantern]

With that new copper alloy plus the wire, thats my wire needs taken care of

[vapid gorge]

the wire recipe just can produce a staggering amount from those 2 resources

add a ton of limestone to squeeze some extra silica out - useful in some situations

the Space part one is more niche since most people don't automate them on a permanent basis

[vapid gorge]

well you might also get Iron Wire which is really handy.

You don't have to lock yourself to only using the 1 recipe for an item in your map

[fierce ruin]

silica will make more sense when you get to aluminum, id pick the wire too first

[twin lantern]

im still not done with phase 3, keep in mind

As in, not 5 or 10%

[vapid gorge]

yeah but smart plating is ... eh unless you plan to keep the factory going after the phase is done

[fierce ruin]

i wish i had the wire one right now actually. need more cables, uses much copper. but need copper for circuits.

[vapid gorge]

you don't cut silica out of your alum production?

[dense cave]

yep, fused wire best

[fierce ruin]

i do but i dont have that recipse yet

[dry oar]

Should I buy this game?

It it good?

[vapid gorge]

do you like problem solving and design?

[dry oar]

Nahhh

[vapid gorge]

do you like planning stuff and building?

[fierce ruin]

do you like exploring, and unlocking new discoveries?

[dry oar]

I thought it’s a adventure game

[elfin nebula]

yeah, never thought about the smart platings until we decided to also automatd that. then the recipe was really nice

[dense cave]

did they fix cheap silica? it used to be very bad

[twin salmon]

That’s like asking the local pothead convention if you should try MJ.

[vapid gorge]

ah no. It's a building automation/factory game

[dry oar]

Ohhhh alright

[fierce ruin]

define adventure

[twin lantern]

im going fused wire.

[vapid gorge]

nothing has changed as far as I know in many updates

It require tons of limestone but - it's a trash resource so I don't mind grinding it down

[dense cave]

problem is it consumes a ton more power, and takes like twice as many machines or something just to save a little bit of crystal

[vapid gorge]

wel like 50% more machines and a reasonable amount of power for 40% more silica - it's not a bad deal. Just have to probably train in a bunch of rocks

[elfin nebula]

yeah, when playing for power efficiency its really bad, same with pure recipes etc. but power isnt a problem and also in abundance, so it doesnt do worse than triggering ocd

[vapid gorge]

as for power? meh, power is easy 😄 I over clock everything

[elfin nebula]

i also hate to use overclocking and power wasting alts, though im sure i will need them

[vapid gorge]

how come?

[fierce ruin]

if you underclock everything you can have even more output. but at some point you run outta frames per second.

[elfin nebula]

well, i also hated manifolds until i needed a really large factory and just wanted to not balance that. also had no place

[elfin nebula]

probably irl comparison. wasting power feels just wrong

[vapid gorge]

yeah fair xD but max overclocking only costs +33% more power overall , not soooo bad

[elfin nebula]

similar to going vegan in minecraft because feeling bad for the animals in typical mc farms xD

[fierce ruin]

lol i am weird and play like that too.

[elfin nebula]

there is always this little part that feels wrong, so ima skip that

and yes, using ethics and actual environmental friendly in games, where this decision has no use is weird, but cant be helped

[fierce ruin]

i usually do not underclock like crazy but this play through i am, and you have to build way more machines, but you can get more efficency and more output. however the only way to logically build so many machines is to use blueprints

[elfin nebula]

since this is math. i need the ratio. as below 100 %
when i speed up something to 115 %
how much is that as below 100 %
i know its not 85, but idk how to calculate

[fierce ruin]

100/115 = 0.8695652173913043

that you mean, sorry dont understand the question fully

[elfin nebula]

seem right.
well i need to speed up audi oand video sperated. the video has a speed value, so 115 % being 15 % faster
but audio has a time stretch ratio, so below 100 % is faster

so it uses two different scales

but they need to perfectly match at the end

and that over 4 hours

[fierce ruin]

ya you take the cross product and multiply

[elfin nebula]

well, it shows bpm. 120 to 138 is + 15 %, seems correct, thanks

[fierce ruin]

i do vinyl djing stuff so do this shit in my head. same principal.

i also use the same algo to balance my clock speeds on machines blocks in the game

[elfin nebula]

you know that stuff?

[fierce ruin]

ya

thats mastering engineering 101 stuff.

whats that for video mastering?

[twin lantern]

Third alt coming up.

[fierce ruin]

i need to hd hunt some more, i keep neglecting.

[elfin nebula]

its basically a visual audio drama, so mainly talking with some background music and sounds.
the settings are for audio. video is no problem

i never needed to work with speed stuff, so im unsure about that

[fierce ruin]

sorry meant the audio aspect for video mastering

[elfin nebula]

hm?

[elfin nebula]

i would say the quartz xD
but people could say otherwise .-.
left > middle > right

all are quite good

[fierce ruin]

A proportion is an equation which states that two ratios are equal.

When the terms of a proportion are cross multiplied, the cross products are equal.

Cross multiplication is the multiplication of the numerator of the first ratio by the denominator of the second ratio and the multiplication of the denominator of the first ratio by the numerator of the second ratio.

    21      3
    --  =  --       
    70     10
        

21 * 10 = 70 * 3


    210 = 210

cat comp for me

[elfin nebula]

ah, remember that

[fierce ruin]

write it down on an index card works for me

[elfin nebula]

so about the values i sent you.
is that okay or should i touch that

the four sliders i mean

[twin lantern]

@vapid gorge What do you think about the last alt list?

[fierce ruin]

transietnts is like noise on your wave form, gritty ness, pitch is keylock stablity, like wobblying,
noise gen is adding more transients to make less digital sound, can correct hiss, and phase is the left and right channel offset. like for speaker or microphone positioning

[elfin nebula]

so i just keep the defaults?

[vapid gorge]

ah well the first 2 are pretty straight forward

refineries + water + power for more of stuff - Good to extend a resource in a location and not bring it in or for bigger projects

Caterium computer is one of the Alts to make them just with Oil and Caterium and a lot of people like doing that

[elfin nebula]

also about the first two, they are rather rare ores, so it can be valuable when needing much for something

[twin lantern]

I am in the need for supercomputers now, as I want for safe power of geysers, which I need 50 supers for. and I am about to go for oil, probably promising for this upcoming expansion.

[fierce ruin]

do an AB test, change one value ALOT and see what it sounds like compared to the orginal do for each at different segments, if no noticable change do not change, if you find B better use that as orginal and recursively repeat until your satisfied with the final mix down

[vapid gorge]

have you built a computer factory yet?

[twin lantern]

I have not made a "factory", I have a temp setup i am hand feeding

[fierce ruin]

making cables for computers sucks, uses a ton of copper.

[twin lantern]

Copper is not an issue, I just got Copper Alloy Ingot and Fused Wire. I will have so much wire.

[vapid gorge]

well pure caterium is also useful for the computer alt there but not critical. But the computer one probably works best with a combination of other alts so I'd go hunting

[elfin nebula]

hm, im thinking about switching to a worse program to get it done faster xD
damn high end softwares taking so long by doing stuff precisely

[twin lantern]

Okay, I was steering towards computers. I'm barely using caterium as it is.

Gives it a use.

[fierce ruin]

i use audacity for that its super fast, terrible ui sounds good if you know what your doing, then you can splice the audio track onto the video, i usually work them separately

[vapid gorge]

there's a caterium Circuit board recipe that's good 😄

[elfin nebula]

caterium circuit boards

oh, well

[fierce ruin]

ya i like that recipse too

[twin lantern]

Still have two more HDs in my inventory.

[elfin nebula]

but yeah, since i also need huge amount of ai limiters i run out of caterium if using both, so im doing caterium boards and crystal computers

[fierce ruin]

@elfin nebula how long is the clip your processing?

[fierce ruin]

o thats not a bad time.

[median heath]

1. Best way to make Crystal.
2. Best way to make Caterium.
3. Better than Base Recipe.

[elfin nebula]

actually using quite much cpu.
ten times as much as satisfactory uses xD

[vapid gorge]

1-2 highest output 😛
fewer refineries can be nice 😄

[median heath]

*Best

[fierce ruin]

pitch correction is an intensive process, i would actually use pauls time stretch in audacity to do long things, its multi-core, i dont think izotopes stuff is multi threaded like that.

[median heath]

You cannot say fewer Refineries is nice when playing a game literally called Satisfinery. @vapid gorge 😛

[elfin nebula]

maybe thats a problem as well

[fierce ruin]

ya that time looks right, its about what 10x speed pretty fast.

[elfin nebula]

could have used that RT thing i guess

[fierce ruin]

that will sound best, izotope is great stuff i use it for my audio production and mastering. it takes a long time though on very long clips like doing entire movies etc..

[elfin nebula]

actually, i can just let it run in background

[elfin nebula]

the resampler is wew

[fierce ruin]

ya its just on one of your cores, you should be able to do other things, alot of time i do that while i game let it take longer, depends if your maths is good and you put in the right ratio amounts, if not you have alot of rerendering which i do frequently.

if you have a decent gpu look up flowframes and cupscale, its amazing for video and audio processing

[elfin nebula]

well, i dont touch the video and just change the metadata, because i aint reencode 4 hours now. so ima play with 69 instead of 60 fps

i normally would just set the speed in the videoplayer, but i need that file for playback where i have no pc

[fierce ruin]

flowframes will upscale your fps and reencode on your gpu

you can give it a target ratio and fps and it will reencode and use diffusers to generate and merge frames to fit with your audio

[elfin nebula]

yeah, and look garbage xD
im doing video processing for over ten years, trust me on that xD

just changing metadata should work

[fierce ruin]

might be user error, looks aaa on all the stuff i use it for

[elfin nebula]

its not, harddware encoding looks bad always

not on a user scale, but with a trained eye, you spot it from kilometers

[fierce ruin]

configuring encoders is hard, especially as a non programmer. i understand.

[elfin nebula]

im literally writing parts of them xD

[fierce ruin]

🍪

[dusky zenith]

what did i just walk into .-.

[twin lantern]

#4 in a minute

[elfin nebula]

#off-topic-tech message
you can read there, we had that already

[fierce ruin]

thats not what im talking about.

[twin lantern]

@vapid gorge

[elfin nebula]

then this
#off-topic-tech message

[twin lantern]

I am in the market of setting up a nice hyper tube network, but that will not be a sustained need.

[vapid gorge]

steamed sheets is just straight up copper saving, double the sheet production

steel rotors are often found convenient because the things that use pipes and wire with rotors are used in other parts further on so it can 'simplify' a factory.

qw cable is pretty nice in my experience but does what it says on the front

[elfin nebula]

1 > 2 > 3

about copperhseets
https://imgur.com/a/6RzJSNU

[vapid gorge]

there's a couple computer part related alts that use steamed sheets so that might be good in combo

[elfin nebula]

comparison of all ways to make the sheets

[twin lantern]

Hmm, interesting @elfin nebula I did get the Copper Alloy alt like 20 or 30 mins ago, so i think i might steer from that for now.

[elfin nebula]

alloy and steamed is the best with reasonable power usage

[twin lantern]

Which is 10 copper 5 iron to make.... 100 per minute

[vapid gorge]

copper alloy is very nice if you don't have to absolutely MAX your copper.
You need a LOT of refineries for Pure copper ingots

[elfin nebula]

yeah, power and size skyrockets with pure copper

[vapid gorge]

steamed sheets also takes a fair number of refs to produce them

[twin lantern]

Oh shoot, im such a doofus AGAIN. I'm hardly taking into consideration the power need of the different buildings.

[vapid gorge]

which can be obnoxious

[twin lantern]

And refineries are huge

[elfin nebula]

i wrote the power of each below

[vapid gorge]

in general? don't worry too much
You need to increase your power production as you go anyway

[elfin nebula]

you may need to consider when to upgrade or build power plant, since the production needs some power as well until they run

[twin lantern]

Well, ive got this stupid monstrosity gearing up.

[vapid gorge]

nice 😄

Consider getting some oil alts to make a diluted fuel station

[twin lantern]

Yeah, I'm thinking the other circle lake just east for that.

Compacted coal of course.

[elfin nebula]

go the large turbofuel way and end up running out of sulfur

[vapid gorge]

teh alts you'd be looking for would be Heavy Oil Residue and one of hte Diluted Fuel recipes

[twin lantern]

Okay, I am holding onto slugs for coal and sulfur OC to keep that thing going. then HOR and water blender... i dont have blender yet

whatever, I can just use pure fuel for the time being

Now would steel rotor be a smart decision considering the coal power dependency i am currently running?

[rigid turtle]

pure fuel? more like steamed fuel

[twin lantern]

Okay, lol

[elfin nebula]

i dont like steel rotors, i prefer copper rotors with steel screws .-.

[median heath]

Steel Rotor is really only good if you're going for the simplest Motor setup possible imo

[elfin nebula]

btw, what to do with excess rotors?

[storm totem]

I need to change two lines of 375 ingots, and a line of 250 ingots.... into two lines of 500 ingots. Anyone have a load balance tool or tips?

[elfin nebula]

we changed one recipe and now the plan has excess of rotors, but math is perfect

cant really change the rotor plan

thanks to whoever said i should go for electric motors

[vapid gorge]

you can do a refinery diluted fuel 🙂

[elfin nebula]

havin 420 rotors per min excess now :v

because usage for motors halfed

and cant go for more motors because no more rods

[twin lantern]

lol

Underclock?

[elfin nebula]

i said math is perfect xD

[rigid turtle]

smart plating

[elfin nebula]

less rotors mean excess in sheets

[rigid turtle]

for coupons

[elfin nebula]

hm, actually. let me check the default plating

oh yeah, that works

[rigid turtle]

or the plastic one

[elfin nebula]

already doing the plastic ones, the rotors are for motors and plastic platings.
forget that i also could scale up the platings

need to check how much capacity on the reinforced plates

[twin lantern]

@vapid gorge last one tonight

[median heath]

1️⃣

[elfin nebula]

yeah, clearly 1

[vapid gorge]

yeah the HMF recipe is moderately niche and adds complexity in my experience

the RIP alt makes them FASTER for a bit more materials - which, if you want compact it's good I guess?

But both benefit from good screw alts

1 is probably the most flexible

[twin lantern]

1 it is

Thanks all. Time to make some adjustments lol

[vapid gorge]

remember - not required to rebuild jsut because you got new recipes. Just keep plugging along 🙂

And maybe save a few HDD before you unlock aluminum

[twin lantern]

Yeah, ive only gotten the one in the NW corner

[elfin nebula]

depends if there is stuff you want fast now

[twin lantern]

west of oil in valley and north of oil on shore, so barely got any

[elfin nebula]

then its better to use them before making the pool larger

[twin lantern]

okay

[elfin nebula]

because like aluminum will increase the pool of possible alts, so when you still need stuff you can get now, it may be good to get that first

[vapid gorge]

true - if you want recipes for diluted fuel to make your life easier it's a good time for it

[elfin nebula]

especially for stuff like uranium, when you dont plan on building a nuclear power plant, wait with unlocking the milestone until you got the recipes for the lower tier stuff, because you would get uranium alts that are useless in that moment

[twin lantern]

This game is such a squirrel thing, let me do this.... new recipe, bing off somewhere else and never finish a darn thing

[elfin nebula]

my coop and me just rush through all milestones and harddrives, then start actual building

like thats our base with that we made all milestones. (there also is a coal power plant, a small steel factory and a small rubber/plastic one) we ziplined stuff like oil and steel product in
https://i.imgur.com/XhAARxL.jpeg

[vapid gorge]

changes once you've unlocked things a couple times and know what your options are. Easier to develop a style and final goal

[twin lantern]

@nach

That scares me

[elfin nebula]

on the bottom easy to see turbomotor and heavy frames manufacturing. its just containered

because we needed to carry the stuff by hand in

well, you unlock stuff, then reconnect everything to craft the next thing to unlock

so its expanding naturally without replacing anything

[twin lantern]

true, im a doofus who did too much KSP so I rebuild everything every time lol

[elfin nebula]

and yes, i submerged the oscillator manufacturer in the pond

is below the water surface

[twin lantern]

I forgot lol

[elfin nebula]

you see containers everywhere, because i regulary needed to carry in plastic, rubber, steel pipes, crystals
mostly plastic and pipes

works to go through all milestones .-.

never cared about building a factory we need to rebuild later, because getting better possibilities

@fierce ruin sounds worse than setting my player to +15 %
so realtime of the player is better. sounds less robotic/metallic

hm

ah, its mixed.
voice only is worse, with music its way better, the player fucks the music

also i think its impossible to get the difference on loudspeakers. im with really good headphones atm

[twin lantern]

Which ones?

[elfin nebula]

hm?

[twin lantern]

Said you got good headphones.

[elfin nebula]

ah, 1770 pro

[twin lantern]

Oh, they expensive.

I've just got a pair of Corsair Virtuoso

[elfin nebula]

switched from 770. in comparison they sound like ass cheap garbage.
i know they are quite old and used, but still. quite the upgrade. more than i imagined before

[small kayak]

1770 are closed. maybe someday I will try those to be more focused on listening to the audio from the cans.
but for now I'm happy that no one can sneak up on me while playing 😁

[elfin nebula]

well, do the pro move and heave a condenser mic and use direct monitoring that it sounds like you dont wear any

[small kayak]

switched from my old Senn HD570 to AustrianAudio Hi-X65 about 6 months ago, no regrets. using a condenser since ~10 years

could try and borrow some closed cans to try it with direct monitoring

[elfin nebula]

i prefer the sound of closed, also better to not distract anyone

since i often use them when others are asleep

the sound fits more to the stuff i listen to.
need the additional power especially in the lower frequencies. the open ones are a bit weaker

[small kayak]

true, closed ones are better in certain situations and environments. I use some anc earbuds when I don't want to bother others and depending on the anc settings it's relatively quiet for me too

[twin lantern]

Delta heavy in 10 seconds

[main shuttle]

would it be stupid to add lines to a manifold distributing compacted coal to coal gens, then feed it into a turbofuel factory?

right now it's 20 assemblers running stock 25 comp coal/min each, into 20 coal gens running stock

[median heath]

I want to say yes because you used the words "Turbofuel factory"

[fierce ruin]

whats the easiest way to make a 1:15 or 1:30 load balancer

building my nuclear power plants and dont want to just manifold it :P

[wind spade]

For nuclear you can do direct input, 1:2 or 1:3 based on recipe

[fierce ruin]

ive got my power plant and fuel production in two very different locations and was going to move it by train

i reckon i could just do a 1:2, then 1:3 on each of those, then 1:5 on those

[elfin nebula]

the problem isnt the tubofuel here, its the compacted coal

[wind spade]

Ah, I usually recommend putting them in same place so that you don't have radiation sources in multiple places and on trains

[vapid gorge]

if you insist on load balancing you just keep splitting it into 3.

and accept having a giant mess of belts

[median oar]

if i have 2 reinforced plate assemblers outputing a total of 10 plates per minute, but i only need 9 per minute, dow do i filter out one plate from the conveyor?

[fierce ruin]

smart splitter, have everything set to go into the production line, then set it to overflow into an awesome sink or storage room

[wind spade]

or just clock it to make 9/min so that you don't have excess

[median oar]

but thatll make everything else weird and wobbly

[wind spade]

why so?

[median oar]

the everything else in question:

[fierce ruin]

underclock those too

[wind spade]

what would be changed? you just clock machines so that they make the amount you need

[median oar]

id rather have the 1 excess go into a storage than have the headache of trying to make everything perfect for this one thing

[elfin nebula]

but the plates can be useful, so would overflow into container and sink

[wind spade]

the question is why did you make 10/min in the first place if you only need 9/min

[median oar]

2 of em

[wind spade]

that isn't answer of the question I asked

[elfin nebula]

keeping values clean is a normal reason

clocking stuff around can be really scuffed

[wind spade]

clocking stuff is completely normal

[elfin nebula]

when everything fits just fine, i overproduce as well

[median oar]

when overclocking goes into .xx values it just breaks everything id rather stick to whole numbers

[elfin nebula]

sometimes i overshoot by few hundred per min kekw

[fierce ruin]

the satisfactory calculator gives you percentages of machines for a reason, you can also over/under-clock by setting a target number rather than a percent

[median oar]

i dont use a calculator because i literally cant comprehend some of the shit it tells me to do

[elfin nebula]

well, they give you the number when saying you want 9.
it will also say everything fits perfectly when doing 10

[vapid gorge]

the calculator page? yeah it's balls. You could try Tools, much better UI

[fierce ruin]

are you using the satisfactory-calculator.com or satisfactorytools.com?

[vapid gorge]

but if you don't like clocking things you're world will be harder later

[fierce ruin]

tools is way better

[wind spade]

why would it break everything?

[wind spade]

feel free to post image and we can help you

[median oar]

over or underflowing over time

like it seems fine for a while but then it just breaks

[wind spade]

you clock it to the amount you need and you build the amount you need. Nothing overflows or underflows

[vapid gorge]

sounds like you just haven't planned the system out shrug

[wind spade]

if you need 9/min, you clock it to 9/min and build the intermediates for 9/min

[fierce ruin]

heres the diagram for 9 ppm, nice simple clock values

[elfin nebula]

well when clock to something that has more than 4 decimals, it will break one day

[median oar]

man i just have a neat factory for 10/min set up with no clocking cant i just send 1 excess to a storage 😭

[elfin nebula]

did you mean *all ass clocks

[wind spade]

if by "break" you mean "it will stop for 2 seconds once every 20 hours", then sure

[vapid gorge]

yeah use a smart splitter

Or make one of the assemblers spit out 1 rip

[fierce ruin]

you totally can, but u asked the math channel how to do it so we're presenting other solutions

[elfin nebula]

also you need the plates anyway, so idk why everyone trying to remove any exceds so that no building material is left

[wind spade]

you can. We're just trying to teach you how to use underclocking to your advantage so that you'll be able to use it later when it's almost required by the game

[median heath]

Ass clocks?

[vapid gorge]

thicc clocks

[median heath]

⏰ ❓

[elfin nebula]

ass as in bad

[wind spade]

how is X.Y bad?

[median heath]

Oh. Lol

[elfin nebula]

:v

[cinder silo]

🤦‍♂️

[wind spade]

literally one decimal digits out of 4 possible

[vapid gorge]

I know those words but that sentence doesn't make any sense

[wind spade]

it can still have 3 more and be viable

[elfin nebula]

when you can have all x, then x. y is bad

[median oar]

is this how i do it so that left and center have 9 total and the right is 1 excess

[fierce ruin]

if you underclock the production line, then you free up the iron ore to send to another factory later

[elfin nebula]

something being ass means its bad.

[vapid gorge]

any for the 9, overflow for the other

[wind spade]

that's just plain false

[median heath]

Everything will split 50/50 between left and mid and then go right only when both of those outputs are full.

[elfin nebula]

you also free all your abilities to build something because you have no reinforced plates to do so

[wind spade]

much better would be to have a proper production of something you need instead of relying on some overflow from production lines 🤷‍♂️

[elfin nebula]

imagine doing two production lines for the literal same item insteaf of produce both together

[fierce ruin]

if you built a dedicated storage room initially then you already have a few ppm of everything you need for building

[wind spade]

much better to separate, you can then rebuild/change/extend each one separately without breaking the other

[elfin nebula]

imagine touching anything after finished building

there is no change nor extend

[median heath]

☝️

[wind spade]

extend is completely viable

[elfin nebula]

only when you failed your planning initially

[wind spade]

and newer players don't usually have the skills to never rebuild

and not everyone plans the whole game at the start

[elfin nebula]

still better to encourage people to plan smart and ahead instead of saying they arent skilled enough anyway

[wind spade]

separating factories is literally planning smart as you're open to majority of possibilities that can happen

especially when you don't know your final goal yet

[elfin nebula]

when possibilities can happen you already failed

[wind spade]

possibilities include finding a recipe you want to use or running out of resources locally or wanting to rebuild due to wanting a better design or whatever

you're the one telling the players they failed now 🙂

[elfin nebula]

decide first what you do, not do something random without a plan

[median oar]

alright this is scuffed but i think should work

[wind spade]

I'm not saying that you want to do random?

[elfin nebula]

you say stuff can happen becaue you are unsure what to do

[median oar]

5 and 5 go into 10 then into 4.5 4.5 and 1 then the 4.5's go into 9 and split to 3 while the 1 out is just stored for future use

[wind spade]

majority of players are unsure of what to do

[vapid gorge]

wildly more complicated than it neesd to be - no idea if it'll work

[elfin nebula]

what means you build a factory for no reason, because you didnt decide on any

[wind spade]

very small percentage of players have the whole game planned from start

[median oar]

i mean in theory it should

since i just filtered out the 1 excess and split the 9 into 3's neatly

[wind spade]

you build a factory for a reason, but you may find out you build too little or want to use different recipe you find later

or any other reason

[elfin nebula]

well, that means you didnt plan that smart

[vapid gorge]

I mean maybe - but a smart splitter or having 1 of the machines producing 1 and sending it to the container is simpler

[wind spade]

yes, if you're pro at the game, know all recipes and know your endgame goal, you can build without issues and never end up with the need to change or expand

for majority of other players this doesn't apply and they do make mistakes or at least don't build enough or don't know all recipes

[elfin nebula]

well but you encourage the problem by saying build even less instead of just build as much as feels reasonable

[wind spade]

I'm not saying build less

I'm saying build as much as you need

but don't overbuild for no reason

[elfin nebula]

yeah, while i would always take the overhead / maxing the node to have buffer for other stuff

[wind spade]

or leave the rest of the node for later for better use

[elfin nebula]

because sinking has nothing negative

dont split use a node. its scuffed

also completely unnecessary

[wind spade]

that's your opinion

[elfin nebula]

there are more than enough

and you need enough from everything that it always takes at least one maxed node anyway

[wind spade]

there are indeed. But global availability is something different than local availability

[elfin nebula]

well, when you are in a place with a single node and want to build 10 different things with it, you should question yourself quite much xd

[wind spade]

if I need X, I don't produce more just because node has extra available just to sink the intermediate

I'd rather sink final products for more coupons

nobody said anything about 10 things

[elfin nebula]

one thing per node, no splits, no nothing

[wind spade]

node has 780, I need 250, why not keep the 530 for something else

[elfin nebula]

so no waiting for later

[wind spade]

later when I realise I need 500 for something, I can use the excess that I have

[elfin nebula]

because the need 250 is wrong in almost all cases

[wind spade]

why would it be wrong?

[elfin nebula]

i have never occurred a case where i needed less than a full node

for literally nothing

[wind spade]

I can't imagine making iron plates from 780 iron ore just because I needed a full node instead of part of it. You need like 30/min max

[fierce ruin]

have you ever placed a mk3 miner on a pure node when you need anything less that a mk5 belt full?

[elfin nebula]

meanwhile we using 3 or 4 pure nodes just for plates

[wind spade]

why do you need so many plates? main use is mk1 belts and some machines. I doubt you'll be running out if you make 1/5th

[elfin nebula]

well, they are for reinforced ones

[wind spade]

reinforced plates make their own plates

[fierce ruin]

maybe theyre automating 500 smart plating pm

[wind spade]

I don't count that as "making plates"

centralising production is meh

I'm talking about producing to storage

[fierce ruin]

or have a factory that only makes iron plates and ships them to every other factory that needs plates

[wind spade]

yeah that's the "centralising" that's not really good

tons of unnecessary logistics

[fierce ruin]

ik but maybe its their use case

[elfin nebula]

thats literally decentralizing, by not doing all steps in a single fsctory bit split steps because of their size

megafactories are bad

[wind spade]

you centralise production of iron plates to a single place

[elfin nebula]

yeah, because only a single other place needs it

[wind spade]

well then the argument moves to reinforced plates, they are centralised and split between multiple outputs

[elfin nebula]

reinforced plates have two uses afaik

[wind spade]

megafactories are bad, but I don't talk about megafactories either. I have separate factory/outpost for each product

(sure, some factories can produce more than one product, if they are simple)

[fierce ruin]

what about mid/late game when you also need reinforced iron plates for your HMF factory, and your FMF factory, and your RCU factory, or anything else

[wind spade]

^

that's why every product is made from raw ores

[elfin nebula]

impossible in large scale

[wind spade]

exception being oil products and bauxite which make sense to centralise

so impossible that there's many players that use this exact playstyle and it works

[fierce ruin]

its not impossible on large scale, you build one factory that takes in raw materials and outputs product

[elfin nebula]

because ots in small scale

[fierce ruin]

thats how the tools calculator is designed for a reason

[wind spade]

"small scale" = using majority of the map

[elfin nebula]

when you use the majority of the map its not in one place

[wind spade]

I never said in one place?

[elfin nebula]

and yes, buiöding a factory with 6k buildings is near to impossible

[wind spade]

I said each product is in it's own factory

there's many factories all over the map

[elfin nebula]

so thats the same im saying, whats the point now

[fierce ruin]

ok but by your design, you'd ship iron plates from your one factory to any other factory that needs them

[wind spade]

no, you're saying "build factory that makes iron plates and move them to all places that need iron plates"
I'm saying "build factory that makes iron plates and move them to storage. If something needs iron plates, it makes them onsite"

[fierce ruin]

when instead you could put all of these machines in one building to make a product

[elfin nebula]

set oscillators to 300 and try to build that in one place

you will fail that horribly

[wind spade]

why would you need 300 oscillators?

there's no reason to make that many

[fierce ruin]

or even if you did, ImKibitz has a fantastic example of a production line that makes 480 oscillators

[wind spade]

yeah, it's completely possible to make big production lines in one place

[elfin nebula]

actually, its 298 and we need them

[fierce ruin]

its a little bit insane and took several weeks, but its certainly doable

[wind spade]

you need them for some other production line

which is what you don't do with the approach I'm describing

my approach is that any production line outputs only to storage

[elfin nebula]

centralized storage is bad

[wind spade]

and since oscillators are needed for radar towers and signs only, 10/min is probably more than you ever need

[fierce ruin]

nothing changed but the numbers tbh, just build a bigger and better planned factory

[wind spade]

centralised storage is ideal, you just come to one place and take everything you need

[fierce ruin]

yeah hang on what

you'd rather have to walk/fly/drive all over the map to pick up items when you need them?

[elfin nebula]

no, you ship the storge parts

[wind spade]

ship where?

[elfin nebula]

to your storage. but you dont build a second factory with the same just for storage

[wind spade]

to your storage
that's the centralised storage we are talking about

[fierce ruin]

yeah,,,

[elfin nebula]

bit then its literally the same, while you try to say yours superior

[wind spade]

and idk what "second factory" are you talking about. I build one factory for one product

and I never said it's superior

[elfin nebula]

so we build one factory for oscillators and ship storage parts away and use the others for further items?

[wind spade]

I build one factory for oscillators and ship them to storage

I can use different oscillator recipes for oscillators needed elsewhere for production

[elfin nebula]

so ylu want to ship your crystals to different places instead of shipping less oscillators? also making way more conplex factories because using many steps in it

[wind spade]

I'm literally just giving another option which in my opinion is easier to scale up and better for newer players who don't know much about the game yet

[fierce ruin]

actually another great approach to central storage is just to build a horribly inefficient factory with just like one-ish of each machine all in a row, have it make whatever you need at horrible rates because it doesnt matter, it never links to another production line, it just goes into a storage bin. cause you don't constantly need supercomputers or turbo motors

[wind spade]

no, I build at the places where the crystals are

[fierce ruin]

no you would just find a quartz node closer to the factory you're making

[elfin nebula]

doesnt exist in needed quantities

[wind spade]

your "needed quantities" are too high

because you always consider that it goes to next steps as well

while in my case the needed quantity is low because I need it as part of one item

not part of whole map production

[elfin nebula]

they are just used for two items

and 95 % is for a single one

so the quantity doesnt change

[wind spade]

look,

you can build in any way you want
but don't tell me that my way "doesn't work", because I know of many people who use it with great success and it helps them a ton

[wind spade]

that's the wrong way to think about it. It's used for RCUs, yeah. But those RCUs are used for different items as well and those items are used for different items as well. So it ends up that oscillators are used for many different end products

and each of them needs only a small amount of oscillators

[elfin nebula]

we dont do rcus at all

[wind spade]

replace RCU with anything, it's still valid

[elfin nebula]

its all for computers, and thats again just used in a single item

[fierce ruin]

what item

[elfin nebula]

just supercomputers or not?

[wind spade]

computers and supercomputers are already two different items

[fierce ruin]

you need computers for RCUs

[elfin nebula]

we dont do rcu

[fierce ruin]

why not

[elfin nebula]

they are useless

[fierce ruin]

you need them for turbo motors

[wind spade]

and for blenders

[fierce ruin]

and blenders

[wind spade]

and drones and particle accelerators

[fierce ruin]

which you need for TPRs

[elfin nebula]

dont need for turbo motors

[fierce ruin]

.

and mk3 miners

and for milestone unlocks

[wind spade]

you still need them in storage. So that's already 3-4 different end items that need oscillators

(not to mention oscillators directly to storage, as they are used for building as well)

[elfin nebula]

we have all milestones

[wind spade]

that's already 5 different factories that use small amounts of quartz, so completely viable to do

[elfin nebula]

well, you count factories we dont do in as well

[wind spade]

because I don't talk about your save, but about general approach

[elfin nebula]

while its just oscillators - > computers - > supercomputers

[wind spade]

that's 3 factories

[elfin nebula]

because of the size, obviously

[wind spade]

• oscillator factory
• computer factory
• SC factory

each one uses some quartz for some oscillators

[median heath]

Osc -> Comps -> Supers -> AssClocks

[wet flame]

Tbh nachtnebel just do what you want, and greeny and rae do it how they want. We’re talking abt the general approach here, so if you don’t make rcus since you are not far enough into the late game, fine. Don’t go telling others what to do.

[elfin nebula]

im endgame and have unlocked everything? rcus just arent needed at all

[wind spade]

building blenders

[median heath]

And Wells iirc

[wet flame]

So you just handcrafted them for blenders?

[wind spade]

drones and particle accelerators

[median heath]

Also used in Supers depending on recipe?

[elfin nebula]

the few we neede, yes. its not much at all

[wind spade]

handcrafting in endgame 🤢

[elfin nebula]

not in ours

[fierce ruin]

literally said it depends on recipe

[wet flame]

Are you producing the last space elevator items yet?

[fierce ruin]

props for the crafting lol, thats a lot of crafts

[wind spade]

reminds me of the pointless hate screws get. People try so hard to get rid of some items and in the end they spend more time getting rid of an item than they would spend automating it 😄

[elfin nebula]

on paper, yes. atn building other stuff we dont really need, like turbofuel

[wet flame]

I don’t exactly know what you mean

[wind spade]

people often try to remove screws from their production lines

[wet flame]

On paper but have you made the particle accelerators and the blenders needed

[wind spade]

which is a relic from Update 2 when screws were super bad and every recipe that removed screws was way better

[elfin nebula]

well, screws are easy to remove and most time the alts without them are better anyway

[wet flame]

Oh really. Well i definitely need cast screws before i do anything with them

[wind spade]

nowdays screws are completely fine and many screw recipes are very resource efficient

e.g. copper rotor

[elfin nebula]

we end up with just one recipe still using screws, all others just dont want them

yeah, the copper rotor

only one for us

[wind spade]

not using a recipe because there's more efficient one = fine
not using screws because wanting to get rid of screws = pointless

[fierce ruin]

true! like the recipe that uses oscillators instead of screws to make computers, which also cuts down on plastic consumption so i use it in my RCU factory

[wind spade]

that's my point. If you decide onto recipes and as a byproduct of that you get rid of screws, that's completely valid approach

but if you just decide you don't want screws without any reasoning, then it's weird

[elfin nebula]

crystal computers best computers

[wet flame]

I mean in my opinion, oscillators are just the way to go for everything cause almost all the alt recipes using them are amazing

[elfin nebula]

crystal beacons are weird

[proper belfry]

Go the opposite route, produce screws just for the hell of it

[elfin nebula]

tbh, screws are far less of a problem than wires

[wind spade]

producing screws is pointless 😄

[wet flame]

Weelll tbh i don’t produce beacons

[wind spade]

neither screws nor wires are a problem

the "problem" is when people try to put them onto one belt

[fierce ruin]

beacons are fun and all until you place markers/stamps on the map

[elfin nebula]

having like 30k wires in a single building is always a problem. even when not putting on one belt xD

[cinder silo]

Another problem is people try to move them long distances instead of produce near where they're used.

[elfin nebula]

nuclear power needs them

[wind spade]

why would you have 30k wires in one building? direct insert wire into machines that need it

[wet flame]

Only one specific alt recipe

[wind spade]

then it doesn't matter if you have 30k or 100m

[elfin nebula]

well yesh, but the buiödings take some space, so some distance is to be done

[cinder silo]

My largest wire mess is 1800 wire produced right next to the battery factory where they get used up.

[elfin nebula]

the op one, yeah

[wind spade]

you build the wire constructor directly in front of machine that needs it

[wet flame]

Is it tho

[elfin nebula]

iirc that doesnt work in our case

[wind spade]

it always works 🤷‍♂️

unless self-imposed rules

[elfin nebula]

yeah, all uranium alts are op conpared to all others

[wind spade]

clocking exists

[elfin nebula]

the amount of shards doesnt

[wind spade]

underclocking

and shards are infinite

[elfin nebula]

so even more than 1600 buildings?

[wind spade]

I don't know what you're trying to do so can't give you the solution

[cinder silo]

If you're on U7, look up the 007 exploit if you want to spam it out with shards 🤣

[wind spade]

if you tell me which wire recipe you use and which recipe you have for using the wire, I can give you suggestion on solutions

[elfin nebula]

and no, there is nothing else than iron

[wind spade]

1800 wire constructors clocked to 88.8889% result in 3:1 ratio (+200 machines)

[elfin nebula]

why not +200 cable for 2:1

then 400 automatic for another 2:1

[wind spade]

Or 2:1 at 133.3334% clock (1200 shards, -400 machines)

One of the reasons why I prefer the way I said, you don't go to these high numbers and don't have to solve issues with it

[elfin nebula]

but i already need shards to get down from the 300 manufacturers of the oscillators

and so many dont exist and take really long to get

not to mention another 432 for nuclear power plants

so cant throw endless shards everywhere

[wind spade]

Again, separate productions per product and you end up with more reasonable numbers to build in one place 🙂

Or cheat in shards and call it a day

Or underclock

Or farm doggos

Options are endless

[elfin nebula]

wont change the amount of building just needs to ship ore, because i dont build in place anymore

well, underclocking at cables seems fine, was just about that handling the 36k wires isnt easy, because its just that large

[wind spade]

Won't change amount of buildings but would separate them into manageable chunks

[elfin nebula]

but they all do stuff for the same item

and use the resources of the same place

[wind spade]

Use resources from different places and do stuff for different final item

[elfin nebula]

there is no other place with the amount of resources left xD

also wont change the fact that we need the 900 auto wires

[fierce ruin]

is this for ADS automation?

[elfin nebula]

yeah

[fierce ruin]

how many ppm are you making?

[elfin nebula]

60

[fierce ruin]

holy crap

imagine the tickets throwing that into a sink once youre done lol

[wind spade]

Talk about unnecessary 🙂

[elfin nebula]

well, the game has no goal. and the points per minute is the only scoring of the game, so

[fierce ruin]

is 32,617,920 points pm the max? or just a pretty good amount

ive never tried to do max points so idk

[elfin nebula]

whats the number?

[fierce ruin]

thats the points from 60 ads/min

[elfin nebula]

oh, then not.
our full plan has 60 ads, 60 magnetic field, 20 rockets and 10 pasta

if the engine allows us to do that

[fierce ruin]

wow yeah no kidding

[elfin nebula]

resource wise doable

[fierce ruin]

you might have to edit the ini file as well, just to increase the uobject limit

[elfin nebula]

its at 100 million anyway for testing

[fierce ruin]

is everything built in one place? that must do awful for the fps

[elfin nebula]

someone gave a 2400 hour savegame for testing that broke the limit

[wind spade]

#math-and-meta message

[elfin nebula]

needs to be quite spreaded. already because of the resources.
like for ads alone.
wiring and the stators for the wiring are both using all of dune desert ore.
heavy modular frames using full grass fields. etc

so on one place you would need ro ship in all ores of the map

and yes, we have quite precise plans, calculations and positions for all factories of the next probably 1500 to 2000 hours

also time for sleep now

[quartz violet]

fun fact: 1 fuel generator creates about 3 metric tons of CO2 every minute

[median heath]

Good 😈

[quartz violet]

if its burning gasoline at the same efficiency as a car its 28 tons

[cinder silo]

The fuel generators do look like a pair of ship engines built in to one unit.

[quartz violet]

yeah

I took some numbers from Americas petroleum power statistics

[cinder silo]

Imagine the air pollution from this mess.

[quartz violet]

if its turbofuel it probably produces a lot more pollution

Id have to figure out the math on that

I know the sulfur would kill everything within a 10 mile radius though

[cinder silo]

Yeah, 888 pollution ready generators, plenty of SO₂ & CO₂

Hmm CO in fact.

[quartz violet]

turbo blend fuel would be horrible because of the coke

[cinder silo]

Good thing all the pollution doesn't risk killing the pioneer in game 🤣

[quartz violet]

theres probably a good amount of radioactive crap from the oil that could kill a non-hazmat pioneer even though they have life support built in

[oblique hollow]

I've made up something silly. This isnt for how the pipe system currently works, but for how it COULD work.

Tested it on a few drawn networks and so far i couldnt find any grave errors.
(Large image consider opening original.)

The end result is that any network would have a "directional bias", meaning that fluid would not flow against it unless there was an actual pressure difference thats greater than this bias

bidirectional arrows mean that there is no bias and these parts are handled as usual.

If not, then its still fun to simply draw up a network and then evaluate it by hand. Quite simple puzzle.

[small kayak]

I'm not sure if this would make it easier or not in comparison with the current system, but I like the idea

[oblique hollow]

it simplifies many of the current bidirectional cases

and also, if its used like this, then anyone could just draw it and evaluate it by hand to find out "why does it flow like that"

the actual head lift and gravity system would then of course also affect the order in which things fill

but that does not really change the direction of the pressure gradient

would curb backflow in most cases and probably make mk 2 pipes less unstable

manifolds turn into huge one-directional lines similar to belts

and it also deals with loops in a pretty decent manner

you could try this on paper if you want

[boreal locust]

anyone know if theres a smaller design than this for a 3:4 balancer? spent like an hour trying to get it smaller

[vapid gorge]

there's apparently guides in Reddit?

[prisma kraken]

if you can guarantee your input rates are always the same, you can simplify that to 3 splitters & 2 mergers

i.e. 1+1+1 = (1 + 1/2) + (1/2 +1) = 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4

[vapid gorge]

doesn't that assume the 3 belts aren't running at max throughput available?

[prisma kraken]

true

really my point was more that if you know the input rates, you don't need to balance

only split

[boreal locust]

The inputs shouldn't change but I see what you mean

Most of my production has been on manifolds and I've been told nuclear is better on load balancing 🤷‍♂️

[prisma kraken]

it is better to balance it, butyou don't need anything complicated

there's 2 places that you want to do perfect splitting in nuclear, one is for the fuel rods btw the manf's and reactors

and the other is between the reactors and waste processing

[boreal locust]

ill keep that in mind! havent even started the facility yet but was trying to plan for the future

[prisma kraken]

for the rods going to the reactors, the recipes tend to want you to do a 5-way split

which you can do with a 6 way split where 1/6 loops back around

(those are so low volume, it can be done that simply)

but rather than do a 5-way split, even simpler is to clock the reactors at 125 or 250%

which reduces that to a power-of-two split

on the output side, the default recycling chain requires 3/4's of the waste to go to the particle accelerator, and 1/4 to go to the blender

that's super easy to do with a split, split and merge

if you're using the fert uranium alt, its even easier b/c you just have half the waste going in either direction

[vapid gorge]

@sullen cipher SO! how do?

[sullen cipher]

HIya

Can we voice call?

[vapid gorge]

...suuuure I can spare a few focused minutes. msg me

[sullen cipher]

Sent

[velvet void]

do any blueprints exist for all in one malls?

im going to attempt to build one, importing ores with drones and outputting everything to a large storage room

[deft lichen]

Megafactories will tank your performance

We don't call them malls

And what would be the point if you could just paste a factory for everything into the game

[wind spade]

Depends on what you mean by better. You just have less radiation, but you can build it far from base anyway

[deft lichen]

it can take a very long time to manifold NPPs

and usually you'll want that power quick

[wind spade]

One NPP gives you 2500 MW, it's not a big deal imo

[halcyon tundra]

what's the theoretical max number of plutonium fuel rods you can make? the calculator i'm looking at uses 28 oil nodes for 10 and there's 30 total?

[feral valve]

the maximum rods you can make is dictated by the amount of uranium

since it's the most limiting factor

[halcyon tundra]

22.4 is the max according to the wiki 🤔

[feral valve]

if i believe the calculators, it should be 30 items per minute using up 2062.5 uranium per minute

[halcyon tundra]

hmm, no, 30.54

[feral valve]

yeah. well until they add more uranium nodes or a way to increase the output from same nodes that shoul dbe the theoretical limit

[halcyon tundra]

satsifactory calculator still makes that into 88 oil extractors 🙂

[feral valve]

with the alt recipes, you need only 1177.1574 oil for 30 rods

that's around 4 extractors?

or a single oil geyser?

https://www.satisfactory-planner.net/?factory=DBGYi_1rbGpQv44OsbflI

[halcyon tundra]

oh, nice, didn't know about that tool, thank you

[feral valve]

that being said, the factory is way more complicated with alt recipes

[halcyon tundra]

that's fine, i need something to do on my vacation, it just rains here 🙂

[feral valve]

well, good luck to you with that endeavor

[fleet portal]

Okay

[proper belfry]

Which one of the 2 alternate recipes is more efficient for making encased beams? It's the one with pipes, right?

[wind spade]

define efficient

[proper belfry]

Most amount of beams per steel

[wind spade]

then yeah

[proper belfry]

okay, thanks!

[crimson anchor]

How can I separate iron ingots into 105 and 135 ?

[wind spade]

several options:

• don't (merge 105 and 135 separately)
• load balance
• manifold

personaly I wouldn't load balance ever, so I'd recommend first (or third) option

[crimson anchor]

but the chart tells me to separate them into 105 and 135.

and what is manifold

[wind spade]

no, the chart tells you "105 ingots need to go to A and 135 need to go to B"
it never tells you that you must merge them together

manifold is:

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[elfin nebula]

for load balancer
all output 30,
so using the first 3 bring you 90, then 4 bring you 120 for second path.
missing 15 on each side, so split the last remaining 30 to 2x15 for the sides

[wind spade]

but again, just merge smelters so that one group makes 105 and other group makes 135

[elfin nebula]

merge 3 smelters (90)
merge 4 smelters (120)
split the last one in halves (15+15)
90+15 makes 105 and 120+15 makes 135

[wind spade]

or that

[crimson anchor]

Wouldn't overflow systems make things easier?

because for this chart I can't separate 112.5 into 62.5 and 50

[elfin nebula]

manifolds are literally overflow driven

[elfin nebula]

you can, just really complicated

[crimson anchor]

it's a waste of time

[wind spade]

manifolds 🙂

[elfin nebula]

thats why load balancers need the buff

[wind spade]

eh?

what kind of buff would you imagine?

[elfin nebula]

we talked about that recently.
programmable smart splitters being able to set output amount

because they are quite useless atm

[wind spade]

devs straight up said that isn't coming because splitting is part of the challenge they want to have

[elfin nebula]

yeah, then nerf or remove manifolds

because novody splits anyway

[wind spade]

they already have a nerf, they need spin up time

[elfin nebula]

not applicable.
even 2 hours afking is less then building the balancer for 10 hours

people still always use manifolds

because balancers are not accessible at all

[wind spade]

if you're building balancer for 10 hours then there's something wrong

[elfin nebula]

just the size of the factory

they arent usable in large scsle

[wind spade]

it's not that much bigger

and on larger scale you want to direct input anyway

so neither balancer nor manifolds are used

[elfin nebula]

building 600 of weird scuffed splitters that are made of 20 splitters and mergers is just not the way.
manifolds just work

and direct input is not a thing space wise

[wind spade]

what?

direct input is lowest space-taking thing

it's smaller than manifolds

[elfin nebula]

do you use the word different?

[wind spade]

because you literally put machines in front of other machines

[elfin nebula]

ah, yeah.
but that makes 300 machines - > 1600 machines

[wind spade]

no?

[elfin nebula]

so needed space skyrockets

[wind spade]

why would it increase machine count so much?

[elfin nebula]

how else should i direct input in 1600 machines?

only when all steps use 1600

[wind spade]

or 800 or 400 or 1200 or 3200 or 2400 or any other number that fits nicely into X:Y

[elfin nebula]

so still 100 machines more and then a splitter between each, what again rises the size by a lot

[wind spade]

or less

and manifold-merging + manifold-splitting is still two rows of splitters/mergers, so that's still smaller

[elfin nebula]

the two rows will be quite smaller.

[wind spade]

than... one row?

[elfin nebula]

so manifolds are always better

[wind spade]

false

[narrow mountain]

hey guys, need a hand with some of my math, I have 9 belts that will need to be maifolded into 48 machines, currently planning a multi input manifold. was wondering at which points ill needed to put materials into it

[elfin nebula]

because 400 into 1600 means splitting each 2 times.
that takes space and its not possible to put all machines next to each other, what is possible with manifolds.
and in that scale, the difference is a lot

[wind spade]

that takes the same space as if there was a manifold merger and then manifold splitter

and most people don't build 1600 machines in one place anyway

so what is applicable for your save isn't applicable for majority

[elfin nebula]

well, just dont do mechanics that bring problems at larger scales while others work always best

[wind spade]

and other people would say that manifolds take ages and direct input/load balancing is better 🤷‍♂️
almost like there's multiple options and everybody will pick their own that they want to use

[elfin nebula]

never heard anyone taking load balancers. while i always see people waiting hours for their manifolds to fill

[wind spade]

then you don't look in this discord often because I've seen many 🤷‍♂️

[elfin nebula]

always first answer to all logisticd questions here is, do manifolds, fuck load balancer

literally every single time

no matter how easy it would be to split

recommendation always is to never even think sbout load balancing

[wind spade]

and yet there are people that go "I know about manifolds, I want to load balance" 🤷‍♂️

[elfin nebula]

like me, just to find out in planning, that it would double the size of the factory nd there is no way to fit that in the supposed place

so im forced to manifold

because load balancing isnt usable in large scale

[wind spade]

(and because you don't want to do changes to your approach so that you could use direct input)

[elfin nebula]

we also calculated all types of direct input. we try to do that in all cases anyway.
that already calculated in.
with just using 100 % machines and dont find good ratios we are more at tripling to quintupling the size

just doubled is already the best case

[wind spade]

that's why I mentioned change of approach 🤷‍♂️

[elfin nebula]

your mentioned approach is the best case already and we planned with that.
impossible size

[wind spade]

my mentioned approach is "don't centralise by item, but by final product"

[elfin nebula]

we do

[wind spade]

with that you won't have 1600 machines making same thing in the same place 🤷‍♂️

[elfin nebula]

they are all just for a single final output that gets shipped

[wind spade]

and tbh that many machines call for farming/cheating in slugs to reduce size massively anyway

[elfin nebula]

impossible to farm in reasonable time and no cheats

[wind spade]

sounds like a you issue then 🤷‍♂️

[elfin nebula]

well, game design, when it makes stuff like that impossible

[wind spade]

you're limiting yourself by space, it's not game design, it's "I want to fit it here"

[cinder silo]

There is always towers.

[wary tulip]

Build vertically? Space is not an issue. Skill is.

[regal bobcat]

Is there really any reason to use impure ore nodes if a higher tier is available? Was feeling the urge to take all the iron in grass fields and ship it somewhere to make steel but afaik very few of the nodes there are any good

[oblique hollow]

node is node

its up to you if the power cost is worth it. If you need the material then its definitely worth it

[arctic willow]

mk3 miner overclocked on an impure node is still 300, which is better than 0

[wind spade]

there's never a reason to not use a node

[shadow lake]

How many water extractors do i need for 16 coal generators if im trying to produce 1.2GW of power?

[wind spade]

the coal gen lists how much water it needs 🙂

[arctic willow]

it's three extractors to eight generators, so doubling up you need six

[shadow lake]

Thanks dude!

[gilded gull]

ok so with a balancer, if the input divided by the amount of input conveyors is below my max conveyors limit, i should be able to balance it without any issues, yes?

i have no idea if this thinking is correct

[wind spade]

technically yes, practically though - why do you want to balance?

[gilded gull]

because i need to get a belt with 480, a belt with 480, and a belt with 40, into 5 belts with 200

[wind spade]

why tho? why not use the 480 that is on the belt?

[gilded gull]

because my rotor factory needs 2000 screws per minute, and i need everything equally spread

[wind spade]

that doesn't mean it's an issue though?

just put 480 belt into X screw constructors

so that they use all 480 items

[gilded gull]

its not for the screw constructors, its the outputs of the screws into the assemblers

[wind spade]

screws should be made 1:1 (or similar ratio), run a belt from screw constructor directly into the machine that needs it

don't merge screws on belt, it'll become a big logistic issue

[gilded gull]

that would mean i have to overclock the screw machines

or underclock

[wind spade]

how much does one screw machine make and how much does one assembler need?

[gilded gull]

40 screws per min and the assembler needs 100 per min

[wind spade]

5 screw constructors -> merge screws -> split into 2 -> 2 assemblers

[gilded gull]

that requires so many belts, wouldnt it just be easier with what i was planning to do?

[wind spade]

   A     A
   |     |
+--M--S--M--+
|  |  |  |  |
C  C  C  C  C

how is this many belts?

it's much better than trying to balance 2000 screws

(such a balancer would be so many belts)

[gilded gull]

i need 20 assemblers, and i really only need to balanced 1000 screws

i have all my stuff on different floors

[wind spade]

then build the above setup 10 times 🤷‍♂️

[gilded gull]

and i would need about 20 belts up for that

[wind spade]

you don't... you put the screw constructors in front of the assemblers

[gilded gull]

no
the assemblers are on a different floor

[wind spade]

that's the whole point with screws (and wire and quickwire) - you minimise the amount of time they spend on belts

because they are pain to handle

balancing what you want still means you have to split each belt to 5 (which is 3 splitter + 2 mergers), then take one belt from each set and merge them, resulting in gigantic mess of belts

[gilded gull]

i dont have to split each belt into five, i have the balancer

[wind spade]

the balancer needs to include splitting in 5

[brittle kayak]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/b3djl8/2_to_5_balancer/

[wind spade]

that doesn't work with full belts

[gilded gull]

and then each one has 200, which i can then split into half, and give each assembler exactly what i need

[brittle kayak]

Yeah, that very first merge would be a problem.

[wind spade]

      |
   +--S--+
   |     |
   M--S--M
   |  |  |
+--S--+  |
|  |   +-S-+
|  |   | | |

this is 1-5 balancer

you need to stick this at the end of all 3 belts you have

then take one belt from each balancer and merge them

WAY easier to just do what I suggested above

[gilded gull]

ok so then the actual answer to my question was no

[brittle kayak]

It's possible as long as belt capacity does not get exceeded at any point.

Because then it just breaks and is no longer truly balancing.

Is there some specific reason why you couldn't just use a simple manifold?

[wind spade]

screws don't go on manifold

screws do direct input

[brittle kayak]

Screws go on manifold if you put them on manifold. Whether or not that's a good idea is an entirely different question. 😄

[wind spade]

indeed, my message was a heavy recommendation

[summer flare]

Actual answer to the question could be yes. SCIM (Satisfactory Calculator) has 3 to 5 load balancer, unequal inputs to equal outputs.

[wind spade]

still easier to build the screws where you need them instead of balancing them 🤷‍♂️

[summer flare]

Different folk have different ways of doing things

[arctic willow]

there's a few "no balancers, manifolds only, final destination" people here

[summer flare]

Yeah, there seems to be a manifold mafia

Seems like the Spanish Inquisition when someone asks about load balancing in questions-and-help

[wind spade]

it's "manifolds and direct input" 😛

and it's just to save the pain from designing and building a balancer

ofc you can do whatever you want, we're just suggesting the most time efficient method

[summer flare]

Yeah, but that's advised EVERY time. Even for early game, simple split to 2 or 3 and the numbers make it easy.

[elfin nebula]

yeah, everyone says you to not balance. even though greeny insists in people doing that here, though ive never seen it

[summer flare]

The point is, load balancing is not useless and telling people that is not being helpful.

[elfin nebula]

the problem is the complexity of it.
in large scale its far from viable and makes stuff really complicated

[vapid gorge]

It's very very common for them to be newbies who don't even realise they don't have to manually split things and burn themselves out. So yeah, I'll point out every time that you don't have to load balance and all the negatives that come with it.

[prisma kraken]

I'm going to make a point on the topic without asserting manifold vs balancing... people say that balancing is hard and that it takes so much space, etc. And that is because they don't ever practice doing it and figure out the simple ways of doing it as compactly as possible

things take less time to do if you practice doing them 🙂

[summer flare]

I see it as part of the game. You have to deal with the numbers.

[vapid gorge]

and you can easilly deal with 'numbers' and never ever ever load balance. In fact feeling the need to load balance when you're seending 593.75 items pm down a belt is madness

which is why people should know you don't have to load balance and know the pros and cons of each and decide

[prisma kraken]

yeah, there's a time and place for different methods

usually i punt on prime-number-splitting and just decide to manfold that all

[vapid gorge]

Once people know about both and they still want to load balance? they can go hog wild.

[prisma kraken]

sometimes it does make a real difference of hours in bringing a factory up and verifying its correct function, however

[vapid gorge]

pre fill.

[summer flare]

You don't have to do that when load balanced 🙂

[vapid gorge]

so? xD takes a fraction of the time and space

[prisma kraken]

yeah, prefill 128 assemblers for crystal computers... no thanks

[vapid gorge]

and that doesn't alter the fact that people should know about both before deciding

[vapid gorge]

still takes way less time and if it's not wire/screws it doesn't take long to wait

[prisma kraken]

i think we're in agreement rather than arguing 🙂

[median heath]

I wouldn't say it is useless.

I would however, say it is pointless in most scenarios 🤷‍♂️

The primary point balancers have is "I felt like doing this instead of manifolding."

Which is a completely valid point.

[prisma kraken]

or because you don't want to wait 100 hours for a reactor manifold to fill

[vapid gorge]

Aesthetics is fine. Do wild things for aesthetics.
Just let people know there are other options too. SO many people I talk to on here don't realise you don't have to manually split thigns

[prisma kraken]

i also think a lot of people poo-poo splitting b/c they think it takes more space than it does or is super-hard

i kinda like those sort of puzzles, so i enjoy working them out in the game as an optional thing for my own enjoyment, but i really disagree with the sentiment that it takes exhorbinant amounts of space or is really hard

[summer flare]

Won't deny that it can take up a little more space and there is some calculation involved.

[prisma kraken]

i won't argue that often manifolding things is a more time-efficient and easier way to accomplish many things, just the sentiment that you should always manifold

it doesn't always

like an 8-way split takes the same number of splitters as an 8-way manifold

in the context of a coal power plant, where you're burrying that in a subfloor, its not like you're using that space for anything else, and it's half a foundation's tile worth of width if you want to keep the belts at right angles

(same amount of space if you tolerate curvy belting)

(i'll stop flogging the point)

[velvet void]

what is the basic logic flow to create an auto item sorter with a sink at the end?

[median heath]

Smart Splitters.

[velvet void]

specifically what is the settings needed on a smart splitter?

just input any, output left or right of an item, and output center overflow and repeat?

[median heath]

Kick specific item to the side, Overflow to center.

[velvet void]

oh so center has to be overflow specifically, not set to any right?

[median heath]

If you want storage to fill first, why would you send half of it to the sink off the bat?

[velvet void]

right....

[steady gate]

i made a small train design, this has a road back and forth, 3 train tracks, 4 belts and a hypertube

anyone with a bit more experience than me any tips for making this better/more efficient?

[wind spade]

what do you mean by "efficient"?

and why do you have 3 rails?

[steady gate]

more rails for multiple trains and diffirent train lines

[steady gate]

more efficient as in, is there any improvements i can make to get it to work better and/or faster

[deft lichen]

are you aware tracks won't connect between blueprints?

[steady gate]

yes im aware of that

[deft lichen]

using 3 tracks is weird

just go for double tracks rather than 3 bidi tracks

[steady gate]

i'll just remove the middle one in that case

[wind spade]

trains always go as fast as they can, same for hypertubes and truck, so not sure how can you make it faster

[steady gate]

👍 thank you, im very new to the game so i dont know anything about what is and isnt good

[twin salmon]

Oh that’s sexy.

I’m just gonna…

*steals your idea*