math-and-meta

[scenic gull]

Nice to hear, thank you!
Very appreciate if you can share what you create

[fleet dawn]

I like the supported look it gives

[loud acorn]

is it just small frame pillars?

[fleet dawn]

yep

[leaden helm]

Hi can someone simplify this? If there is an easier option

[oblique hollow]

what even is that

is that a freakin pipe balancer?

[leaden helm]

kinda

[oblique hollow]

just connect a mk 2 and mk 1 to the junctions near the refineries and it works

pipes auto-balance

[leaden helm]

so if i connect 600+300 it gives 900 but pipe only takes 600

[oblique hollow]

ignore the bottom left corner

the same principle as depicted above applies to your setup

btw, are the refineries the ones making the fluid or are they using it

if they use it, just imagine all the arrows above being reversed

[leaden helm]

The refineries using the fluid. Its 12 at 250% and it has 2 sides 3/module 4 module. I think I figued out I split 600 to 2 modules then rerout with the 300 to the other side. If the thing mention above is the fluid dynamics system.

[oblique hollow]

yes, the thing in the image above is the fluid system.

pipes are bidirectional, so you can simply hook up the mk 2 to one end of the refineries and the mk 1 to the other end and it will balance out

[leaden helm]

Yes just what I think thanks for help !

[clear barn]

because then oil stays unused... yellow lights are a bane

[oblique hollow]

just underclock the oil extractor

[cedar dagger]

Hello, Any calculators for splitting/merging ? I'm trying to make 4 outputs of 540, into 3 outputs of 720. The math adds up. But I don't know how to split/merge them in order to achieve that. Any tools available ? Or anyone that knows how to do this ? XD

[deft lichen]

what do you need it for?

[cedar dagger]

Nvm, I'm dumb/tired af xd, just needed to split one into 3 and add it to oters, 540/3 = 180, 180+540 = 720. I was overcomplicating it so much

[cedar dagger]

Making aluminum sheets, was looking to split the 4 bands going 540 of aluminum scrap

[vapid gorge]

easiest way to do that sort of thing is to clock machines to make exactly what you need and only merge those

[cedar dagger]

Yup, true. But I clocked them to in-take exactly what I needed XD. Ty for the tip tho

[vapid gorge]

sure but in the future - you can set a number of machines to take in the exact amount you need AND spit out what you want in groups. Like I have in one factory something like 70~ pure copper refineries taking in 2 belts of ore and clocked between 200 and 250% to spit out a bunch of different volumes of ingots on belts merged afterwards

[zenith mirage]

Quick question:
Do anyone here know of a way to increase light render distance?
I'm trying to light up my factories with regular flood lights ect. so i don't have to rely on global illumination. but lights go dark when i move about 80-100m away from them, and it looks sooo stupid.

[fleet dawn]

I suspect there is a console command for it but don't know it

[sullen rivet]

I asked a similar question about light dispersing better and was told it is not currently in the cards 😦

[fleet dawn]

Lumen is a blessing. This factory illuminates surrounding environment and its pretty ❤️

[zenith mirage]

Yeah but it's so resource heavy. I'm using a 3070ti on 3840x1080p and i would prefer 60 fps 😛

[fleet dawn]

Oh. I would guess that massive resolution is a lot of the problem. Have you tried upscaling a lower resolution with Lumen TAA enabled?

[zenith mirage]

No, i don't like upscaling, it tends to look a bit wrong in my eyes. But i will try it just in case it looks OK in this game. It certainly didn't in red dead redemption 2.

[fleet dawn]

Fair enough

Lumen is so fun to play with that I'm okay with taking a fps hit. I tend to get around 55 at the lowest, where I was pegged at 144 in U7, but the pretty lights are with it to me 😄

[fierce ruin]

how do i get my water up to the top to my coal plants. like how many pumps am i going to need? https://i.imgur.com/75Jx8sS.jpeg

also, how many water generators am i going to need for 64 coal plants

[snow dove]

how much water 64 coal gens takes / 120

and decide how many pumps you need based on height

[fierce ruin]

is there a guide or math equation for the pumps for height

[snow dove]

it’s in the UI

it tells you how high the pumps can pump

[clear barn]

lol

it also visually shows you when placing i believe

[true junco]

Yes, but also buggy. Ive seen the hologram for the top of headlift rarely. Like. Often enough that i know it exists, but infrequent enough that i almost never see it.

[wind spade]

Underclocking is a thing

[wind spade]

Manifolds ftw xD

[next pewter]

interesting tool!!
slight visual bug in Mozilla unfort (see SS, in mozilla 114.0.2 the input buttons are all on top of eachother, and slider blocks the edit field), but does show up correctly in chrome.

[scenic gull]

firefox sucks

didnt' test there, but thank you for report

[spare summit]

cool tool indeed, I just don't see how to remove a node

[magic flint]

How much turbofuel can I get per minute from 1000 per minute of heavy oil residue?

[snow dove]

do the math

[willow grove]

Which recipe are you using ?
Turbo Blend Fuel = 1500
( Also requires 500 Fuel, 750 Sulfer, and 750 Petroleum Coke )
Turbo Heavy Fuel = 800
( Also requires 800 Compacted Coal )

[magic flint]

Turbo Fuel blend

[edgy void]

Use opera gx. it's better than google chrome and firefox

[bleak coral]

opera is a chromium browser, basically chrome anyway

[magic flint]

I stand corrected... What I meant to ask was how much turbofuel can I squeeze from 1350 crude oil per minute? Using Turbo Blend recipe?

[bleak coral]

you can find that out with SFtools: https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/

go to the items, input tab on a new production tab, set oil to 1350, then select the recipes you want to use under the recipes tab, then use the max solve in the drop down on the production tab instead of items per minute

[magic flint]

That is... outdated to say the least... I think? It's missing updates 7 and 8

[bleak coral]

afterward take the max amount and switch it back to items/min so it'll solve for efficiency

there are no new recipes since update 6

no calculators have needed an update

[magic flint]

I am seeing a disagreement between that Satisfactory tools thing and Satisfactory calculator...

[bleak coral]

satisfactory calculator doesn't do loops right, and tools solves for resource efficiency weighted by rarity

calculator in general is less reliable than tools

if tools is using a recipe you don't want to use, you can just turn it off

[magic flint]

The problem is with the heavy oil residue

[bleak coral]

what's the problem?

[magic flint]

Satisfactory Calculator says 1600 heavy oil residue gets produced/consumed per minute.
Satisfactory Tools says 1000 heavy oil residue gets produced/consumed per minute.

[bleak coral]

I'd have to see them

but calculator is probably wrong

[magic flint]

... Wait. My mistake

... I think

... I just now noticed they also disagree on sulfur

[bleak coral]

yeah I just did it, and they agree (assuming HOR, diluted, and turbo blend like you mentioned)

but they agree at 1800 HOR

can you share them both with me so I can see what you're doing?

[magic flint]

I'm now wondering if there were any changes in the numbers for oil stuff after update 6

[bleak coral]

there wasn't

tools is literally what most everyone in the discord uses cause it's nicer cause it gives more fine control and solves in a clear way

it also has the maximize function which SCIM doesn't

[vapid gorge]

It also doesn't give you absurd micro planning splits in logistics.

[scenic gull]

@magic flint Try this one #math-and-meta message
I’ve made it from idea of turbofuel calculation exactly

[scenic gull]

But I'm not sure where did you find loops in turbofuel production

[vapid gorge]

I don't think they mentioned a turbo fuel loop - just mentioning calc does loops weird

[lament venture]

what's this program called?

[scenic gull]

#math-and-meta message

[sleek spindle]

Not sure if you've had an answer or figured it out yet; Click node and press Backspace.

[oblique hollow]

pretty nifty tool, but water loops for aluminum turn kinda messy xd

[scenic gull]

ya, it can be messy, but the only one designer is you 😉

@vapid gorge I mean, you can chain passthrough nodes as much as possible for better organisation. But I will make it better. It's just a prototype now

[oblique hollow]

instant scrap has the bonus of only being one machine, but yeah, making nodes / paths go back up without looking goofy is a bit hard

[near imp]

@silk lintel this is what i have rn

the two trains in the intersection block each other

it might just be something that clears itself up when i use it in a bigger network

[silk lintel]

[near imp]

path signals did not do the trick

wait should the end of a path be a block signal?

[zinc crater]

@near imp yeah path signal in, block signal out.

[near imp]

ah

[vapid gorge]

why do you have 50m train lines?

[silk lintel]

yeah it took a bit to figure out what the intention was- path signals in the way you were thinking definitely wouldn't help - first thing would be adding more signals on your lines so that the blocks more or less correspond to a a couple train lengths each, THEN path signals into the intersection

i actually don't really have anything useful to contribute other than suggesting to design train lines in such a way they don't intersect except only when splitting or merging but obviously that's a whole headache and can of worms on its own

[near imp]

theyre just to keep the trains going to see if theyd crash

[silk lintel]

sorry edited the first for clarification

[vapid gorge]

yeah the solution to the above is 'don't do that'

mono directional train lines are a giant pain in the ass for people who know what to do with trains

[silk lintel]

it can work but is also very prone to deadlocking with higher traffic

[near imp]

ill see what i do when i actually need it

thanks for the help tho

[scenic gull]

the bottleneck in your schema is a point in the middle Too many intersections, so trains have to slow down and wait

[near imp]

thats too bad, it looked pretty cool

[tacit cosmos]

I've started a project to have 200 nuclear power plants, and I'm having trouble doing the math. the wiki says that each power plant burns 1 uranium fuel rod every 0.2 minutes. that means one rod every 5 minutes, is that correct? If that is correct, I would need to produce 40 uranium fuel rods per minute?

this would mean I would need 100 manufacturers with the standard recipe in order to supply those fuel rods?

hmm, looks like the reddit post that said if you didn't care about waste, you could have 253 nuclear power plants running, as when I use satisfactory calculator, it says you'd need 4000 uranium per minute, which is impossible. there's only 2100 uranium per minute on the entire map

[delicate chasm]

There exists an alt recipe that cuts uranium usage in half compared to the standard recipe.

[tacit cosmos]

ok, that one says it would still use 2666 uranium per minute

[wind spade]

there's multiple alts

one for cells and one for rods

[tacit cosmos]

ok, I see that now, I can't seem to get the calculator to use both of those alternates

[wind spade]

which one are you using? I have no issues getting it to use both on SFTools

[tacit cosmos]

ok, i was using satisfactory calculator, but now i switched to https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=3lrkJWmTh4AkO37xUi5J and it looks like it has everything I need. My only concerns is that it says this is for update 5.

[median heath]

Tools is superior.

[wind spade]

switch to Update 6, which is basically the same recipes as Update 8

only changes are:

• overclocking (not really affected in any way except for codex)
• some ammo recipes (not much relevant for most people)

[mystic moon]

Do you have a planned date for new tools?

[wind spade]

I'm currently working on rewriting the whole tool, so updates to the website are lacking a bit (hence the reason for it having U5/6 as latest)

[bleak coral]

Wait ammo was U6, thought that was up to date

[tacit cosmos]

got a link for this?

[median heath]

Tools is what YOU linked... so I am confused...

[tacit cosmos]

oh, ok. i thought he was offering a 3rd option, lol

[tacit cosmos]

well, he was saying SFTools

[wind spade]

planned date:
optimistic: U8 stable
pesimistic: end of year
realistic: ~3 months, depending on my workload (it's tons of work as well as learning new technologies, all that while I have a job, 3+ other projects I maintain and work on wiki export script, although that one is close to being finished)

also holiday season 🤔

[tacit cosmos]

is 433 uranium enough to turn 2000 waste per minute into sinkable items?

[bleak coral]

Got it, so CSS need to make sure U8 stable is delayed out to 3+ months

[spare summit]

oh thanks!

[bleak coral]

If you're gonna sink rods you don't want to use any plutonium alts. Their only purpose is to make more plut rods at the cost of extra resources. They only become relevant if you want to use them for power

[tacit cosmos]

i can't get tools to show me a plan for plutonium fuel rods

[wind spade]

you need to input uranium waste

since that can't be produced

[tacit cosmos]

ok, i see, this is saying that using alternate recipes, it doesn't take any uranium at all?

[bleak coral]

Yes

Plut doesn't need extra uranium unless you use the fertile uranium alt for non-fissile uranium

[tacit cosmos]

this planner says 1500 waste would go to non-fissile uranium and 500 to plutonium pellets, thereby getting rid of my 2000 waste. perfect

to make 40 plut fuel rods for me to sink

its basically 1 for 1

1 uranium fuel rod for 1 plutonium fuel rod

[bleak coral]

That's not the correct ratio, you sure you got that waste right?

Or wait, 2000 waste is definitely not enough for 40 plut rods

That's the weird part

Oh, that's 40 manufacturers not rods, those manufacturers make only 10 rods/min

[tacit cosmos]

oh, it is 10, plutonium fuel rods will use 2000 waste

[bleak coral]

sorry, 40 just immediately hit alarm bells cause that's not even possible, max plut rods is 30.54, and that's sacrificing overall power to do that

[tacit cosmos]

it takes 17.3 of the nuclear power plants just to power the two factories to make both of the fuel rods

not to even mention the power for the trains

[bleak coral]

yeah, I mean that's near map max that's a huge uranium facility

[tacit cosmos]

well, adding them both to the same plan helps too https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=OgSRz5r2U7mrXc9nTws2

[scenic gull]

Hey, I'll be very appreciate if you can give a chance to this one 🙂 #math-and-meta message

[fierce ruin]

i'm super confused cause my coal plant (8 generators) is making 300 MW, it was making 600 before. water and coal are being produced as normal and fill up the generators and they're all at 100% clockspeed. not sure what's happening

nevermind im dumb i just forgot to wire the other half to the power grid my bad

[tacit cosmos]

we've all been there

[true junco]

Sometimes IRL at that. 😆

[fallow kettle]

anybody ever calculated the best setup for nuclear power to have the most power output, and while sinking all of the uranium waste via plutonium fuel rods?

[vapid gorge]

thousands of people. You can use the tool here #math-and-meta message that this person is using

[fallow kettle]

so it's somewhere around 50.4 uranium fuel rods per minute and 18.9 plutonium rods per minute

[vapid gorge]

12.6 if you want max power while sinking plu rods

[median heath]

Max power period is 50.4 Ur and 22.4 Plut.

[oblique hollow]

not 27.2 plut?

[thorn bane]

https://i.imgur.com/T1DnKi8.png

[median heath]

Max Plut != Max Power

[oblique hollow]

huh. why? power cost or resource limits?

[bleak coral]

Uranium balance issue with fertile uranium.

Given both the uranium encased cell and fuel rod alts are used, more power is generated from using all the uranium for uranium fuel rods and generating extra waste than for making more plutonium fuel rods from less uranium fuel rods and waste using fertile uranium.

[median heath]

Possibly gets addressed with recipe rebalance 🤷‍♂️

But right now Fertile is optimal only when you're not maxing usage of ALL Uranium.

[digital moth]

Hey all, just your friendly neighbor coming to remind you to touch the grass

[median heath]

I pick the grass for biomass.

[digital moth]

same man its getting tho my nerves

[scenic gull]

plants are taking CO2 from oil burning

[next pewter]

What is a usefull location for suoercomuter plant?

Its challenging to find the best spot to bring cat &plastic together, w iron and cupper 😓

[delicate chasm]

Eastern side of the North Canyon where it meets Dune Desert. Iron/copper/limestone/oil together, caterium north in the desert something like 300m?

It's pretty trivial to run a bidi train from the eastern pure caterium node on DD's coast straight west to that spot as well.

[next pewter]

Hmm… i didnt know about that spot, thx for the suggestion, will check it out.

[fleet dawn]

A lot of you guys build on a scale an order of magnitude larger than I do 😄

[sleek spindle]

This comes with time and insanity.

[fleet dawn]

I dono, I've put almost a thousand hours in and I never feel the desire to build THAT big haha. But we all play for different reasons 🙂

[sleek spindle]

I just saw some of your screenshots haha. Don't be so modest, your builds are epic.

[delicate chasm]

My largest single build to date was less than 400 machines total! Don't feel small.

[oblique hollow]

fertile? i though it is easy enough to get 50% of uranium rods back as plutonium without that alt

[bleak coral]

Something like that, but it's still less plut rods total than if you use fertile uranium.

You just get so many more uranium rods vs using it that it's a net power gain to give up a few plut rods for a bunch of uranium rods.

[vapid gorge]

well with the right recipes you only need oil and cat

and there's a spot in the east swap where they are like 20m away from each other

[sullen mural]

I am trying to figure out why the merger and splitter are not working right, I mean I am missing something here I just dont know what that is.

oh I think I see the problem. I merged 2 and splitted to 3 that is why the belt is not feeding equally

Any suggestion how to make mergers and splitters to be neat?

[frosty owl]

If you're talking about visuals, foundations are a great (of not necessary) first step

[sullen mural]

some full, some sparse

yeah but here I mine 60 limestone and merge them like this then split to 4 (x 15 = 60) constructors to make concreate and belts are acting weird

with that Math in mind all belts must have equal limestone on them but the one on very left is full and the rest are not

[frosty owl]

What you have is 60/3 and one of the thirds (20/min) further split in 2 (10/min)
You need one more splitter to do a 1-to-4

[sullen mural]

even if they would convey ewually how can I make the belts .. whats the word.. full, jammed, packed

[frosty owl]

You can prime the system (fill up the machines' input inventories)

[sullen mural]

what do you mean? Miner is MK 2, belt is MK 2, so why 3 are 20 and 2 are 10?

[frosty owl]

Once the belts back up, no matter how the splitters are laid out, the system will run at max efficiency

[sullen mural]

that simple? (so you mean it is just visual? the end result will be the same?)

or a packed belt works more efficiently than the one I showed in screenshot

[steep edge]

yeah but your math is still wrong

[frosty owl]

Visuals follow the factory mechanics. Belts full indicate that the machine's input is full and the belt is providing more than the machine is taking

An empty belt can mean both that the machine is starving or that it is receiving just enough

[sullen mural]

miner mines 60/m > constructor makes 15/m = 15 x 4 = 60 what am I missing?

[frosty owl]

Does it make/output at 15/min or does it input at 15/min?

[sullen mural]

I meant visual as in it is does not change the end result

[sullen mural]

constructors take 15 limestone to make concreate

[sullen mural]

also, when I fill the machine inventory the miner stops working till the excess is emptied out

[frosty owl]

If all belts are MK2 (or just same MK), from left to right you should have: 10-10-20-20
Once the machines are full of limestone and belts backing up enough, all belts will carry 15/min

[steep edge]

that what i see on the picture

[sullen mural]

in this one MINER is 120/m (MK 2) belt is also MK 2. Is it better to make 1 splitter to one each constructor?

15 per each one

[steep edge]

Yes

[sullen mural]

so this is more efficient?

not space efficient tho (especially when going to MK3 miner)

Should do the same for merging it? one for each? or that does not matter?

[steep edge]

Efficent wise they will end up the same. But the first one is way uglier than the 2nd in my opition. Merging does not matter as long as the output of the constructor will not pile up

[sullen mural]

mergerd this way (mirrored the split side in the back)

[steep edge]

you need to make sure not excess belt limits

[sullen mural]

see, the mechanic of the game tries to fill the first 4 belts > constructors then goes to 5th, 6th to the 8th. How can I mitigate that?

[snow dove]

patience

the first few machines will backup, and send the rest of the material down the line

[sullen mural]

lie the 1st belt that comes directly from Miner is the fastest belt and speed drops down from there to 4th and fully becomes SLUGGISH in 5th 6th 7th and 8th

[snow dove]

It’ll fix itself, given you’re feeding enough

[sullen mural]

you mean it will self fix itself (for the lack of better word) in the long run? but what if the outtake is as fast as the input

[snow dove]

If the consumption matches production, it’ll fix itself

[sullen mural]

miner makes 120 and consturctors take 15 per each so it is equal

[snow dove]

the only time it won’t fix itself is if you feed less than you consume

you can turn off like 2 machines and let the rest fill if you want

it’ll speed up the filling process some

[sullen mural]

right now the 1st constructor has made 10 concreate bags, 2nd 10 3rd 9 bags 4th 8 bags 50 4 bags 6th 2 bags 7th 1 bag 8th 1 bag

[steep edge]

do you know what an exponential function is?

[sullen mural]

numbers are not accurate from above just to demonstrate the speed at which the input output works

[sullen mural]

yeah

[steep edge]

everything is accurate, you are just having a hard time understanding it

[vapid gorge]

ok so on a manifold like this the first machines gets more than the next right? because it splits in 1/2 and 1/2 and then 1/2 of that again on the next one right? So the first machine gets full first

What happens when the first machine is too full of material?

[pine inlet]

It will look like this when it is full.

[vapid gorge]

might be replying to the wrong person?

[dusky zenith]

could be wrong, but im pretty sure they take 45 limestone to make 15 concrete, so the problem is your math

yup

[sullen mural]

I will test and report back I had to go afk to do irl stuff

[limpid plume]

Are there any good planners/calculators? the satisfactory-calculator.com is mostly anyoing... i dont want to keep selecting evey recepie i can or cant use every time i load the page... for instance, it tries to use oil for nearly everything..

[wind spade]

in pins or #welcome

[limpid plume]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production is for U5?

[wind spade]

switch to U6

[limpid plume]

or not much changed? im kina newish

[wind spade]

U6 is almost equal to U7-8

[scenic gull]

You can try this one #math-and-meta message

[limpid plume]

leme give that a wack 😄

[silk lintel]

@grizzled fable made a shitty mspaint for this lol

[devout igloo]

hey i have a complicated question

could someone help me out?

[median heath]

You have to ask the question 😉

[devout igloo]

lol

well

i have 6 smelters each outputing 60 ingots, total being 360 ingots, and i have 5 constructs, in which each needs to get 72 ingots exactly, so how do i split that?

and i cant build any more smelters or constructors

[median heath]

!wikisearch Manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=Manifold

[median heath]

☝️

[devout igloo]

yeah bot

[heavy mountain]

why would you need to split that?

[devout igloo]

no matter how you split stuff, you cant split an even number into an uneven

[devout igloo]

trying to build a really compact factory with limited space

[median heath]

Manifold it, it will split an even number into an uneven.

That's why I linked manifolding.

[devout igloo]

alright i will try it

[heavy mountain]

well, if you're looking for load balancer, those are the opposite of compact, as Sevrahn says, just manifold it

[median heath]

It's not about try. It's legit how 90%+ of the playerbase does belt logistics.

You just put 1 splitter behind each machine and attach the belt to feed through all of them.

[devout igloo]

i was thinking like are there splitters, which can split a defined ammount per minute?

[median heath]

There never will be.

[devout igloo]

ohhh

[heavy mountain]

not in vanilla, no

[devout igloo]

well if i split 15 in 2

which side will have the 8? or does it change from side to side

[heavy mountain]

neither, its a 7.5 split

[devout igloo]

how can u split an unspittable object?

[heavy mountain]

that is per/min

[devout igloo]

ohh

right i forgot about that

why is this so complicated godd amn

[untold star]

its a factory game that you get better at with time

[heavy mountain]

if 7.5 is complicated wait till you get to aluminum and even nuclear

[median heath]

It isn't complicated.
Manifold it.

[devout igloo]

I cant

[median heath]

I assure you that everything in the game can be manifolded.

[devout igloo]

i dont have space, if i do it will look unsymetrical

[heavy mountain]

unsymetrical factories are better tbh

[untold star]

bru work on looks later in the game lol

[devout igloo]

i have adhd i will flip out every time i see it

[heavy mountain]

thats OCD

[median heath]

1. Manifolds take the least amount of space of anything.
2. That's your issue, not a "I can't" it's an "I don't want to."

[devout igloo]

same thing

[untold star]

LOL

[heavy mountain]

its not

[devout igloo]

kind of

[heavy mountain]

not really

[median heath]

Not at all.

[devout igloo]

okey okey okey okey

[median heath]

Completely separate things.

[devout igloo]

i think ii will stick to complicated math

[heavy mountain]

ok then, your world your rules

[devout igloo]

getting a 72 by splitting 60 with 3 or 2

i got it

kind of

i have 73.333333333333333333333

its good enough

[heavy mountain]

welcome to floating point math and infinite decimals

[devout igloo]

indeed

will show how it looks later lol

the splitters

[untold star]

my factory lookms like shit because im trying to get a bit further so i can make it better lol

but it works alright

[devout igloo]

well im only just at miner 2 🙂

[untold star]

im about to get those too

[devout igloo]

i never in my life thought i would use a pen and paper to do math in a god damn video game

[untold star]

LOL

still havent done that lol just winging it

for now at least

[devout igloo]

you will if you go deep enough

i could just make the factory 3x bigger

but i want it symetrical, and leveled

[untold star]

yea i will be doing alot of math for this lol later

[devout igloo]

can u send sc here?

i neeed to split all of these into 72 in this small space

[vapid gorge]

Manifolds are more compact than load balancers

[median heath]

Already tried explaining that.

[untold star]

can you explain what a manafold is rq

[median heath]

!wikisearch Manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=Manifold

[median heath]

As I said before...

[untold star]

so it just goes into the machine and once its full it goes to the seccond one?

thats what i have been doing so im good ig

[median heath]

👍

[delicate chasm]

Have we discovered ANY number that fits on a belt and doesn't manifold with precisely the same efficiency as load balance?

I'm 99.999% sure that a correctly built manifold cannot experience inefficiency because by the time you split enough times to make the manifold long enough to starve something, you've exceeded the belt limit.

[devout igloo]

FML

[vapid gorge]

Wow, it’s so compact

[devout igloo]

😒

[vapid gorge]

I can tell you don’t have much space to work with

[devout igloo]

i know and thats the problem

if i make it work im the best

[vapid gorge]

If only a different method that perfectly fed machines existed

[devout igloo]

im so god damn lucky i like math and fkin my mind up

[vapid gorge]

Curse our terrible and painful existences

[delicate chasm]

You're 100% going to need to move the balancer off-site into its own little outhouse thing.

[untold star]

SAME

[wind spade]

it's a shame we live in alternate universe where manifolds don't exist

[delicate chasm]

Mark my words.

[vapid gorge]

And that this universe ALSO doesn’t allow us to change the clock speed of machines

[devout igloo]

it doesnt seem to fit FK

[vapid gorge]

That’s every single other suggestion made was from some sort of wonderful fantasy world

[silk lintel]

i think i am just going to react with 🧎‍♂️

[devout igloo]

stop bullying me

hmmmm

[delicate chasm]

I think at this point jester is just offering us validation and we should be grateful for the entertainment and friendliness.

And probably stop; the manifolding point has more than been made.

Admittedly I'm just hoping they get on to building the outhouse soon and am no better.

[silk lintel]

honestly using manifolds every run gets stale

i'm probably gonna try to start using manifnews instead

[vapid gorge]

Out

[devout igloo]

this reallllly isnt working out

[heavy mountain]

you don't say

[untold star]

i think your doing it wrong

[devout igloo]

🤣

[untold star]

idk i cant really tell whats going on

all i know is you aint happy about it

[vapid gorge]

You’re at the first step of production- this gets worse with every extra step.

[silk lintel]

idk

at least it's still in the realm of possibility given enough patience and determination

[devout igloo]

i am contemplating building a complete new building just for the spliters hmmmmmmmmm

[silk lintel]

when you get to pipes though... 😂

[untold star]

ive probably used like 100 mergers and spliters and ive barely automated crap lol

[devout igloo]

i give up im making it unsymetrical

[vapid gorge]

If load balancing is your goal you have to plan the entire production line in advance and never ever change it when you get new tech

[untold star]

LOLO

[devout igloo]

its impossible in this small space

[heavy mountain]

yeah, thats what we said

[untold star]

yea lol i just make it work not make it look good

[devout igloo]

😒

[vapid gorge]

It probably isn’t - but what will you do the next step when it’s even more complicated?

[devout igloo]

this is my first factory

[devout igloo]

make it in a better god damn place

[silk lintel]

grass fields is a p good place already for space

[devout igloo]

i am in grass fields

its uneven

[untold star]

same

[devout igloo]

i dont wana rebuild all this

took me hmmmmmm 7+ hours?

well i am raging and tallking on my phone all the way but it is what is

[heavy mountain]

thats nothing

[silk lintel]

look on the bright side

[heavy mountain]

some factories can take a 100 hours

[silk lintel]

that would have taken you 5x as long to build before zooping

[devout igloo]

zooping?

[heavy mountain]

L

[untold star]

dis is mine lol trash but gets what i need for now done

[silk lintel]

dragging up to 10 walls/foundations at once

[untold star]

why it so small lol

[silk lintel]

the game used to be 1 click = 1 wall lol

carpal tunnel syndrome just building a 10x10 foundation area

[devout igloo]

i dont have zooping

[silk lintel]

.

[untold star]

what happened to my image

[heavy mountain]

biggger L

[devout igloo]

i click one by one

[silk lintel]

change the build mode

[devout igloo]

im on version 6

[silk lintel]

ok

this is getting more and more fishy

[heavy mountain]

version 6 has zoop...

[heavy mountain]

im betting pirated

[untold star]

thats better

[vapid gorge]

How are you on version 6?

The game auto update to 7

[devout igloo]

does it?

[delicate chasm]

Should be 7 or 8 currently; the banner might display the wrong version in Steam.

[devout igloo]

leme see

[silk lintel]

not to mention zooping was update 5 anyway lol

[devout igloo]

oooooo

ye it is 7

[delicate chasm]

Mine says update 5 in Steam still. Am playing experimental though (and didn't start until u7), so it's a mystery.

[devout igloo]

what is experimental 8?

[heavy mountain]

ufo

[devout igloo]

okey i give up for today, will try tmrw

[delicate chasm]

It's an unstable branch of the game with some new features. You can opt in on Steam/download separately on Epic and chatting about it goes in #satisfactory-experimental

[vapid gorge]

You can change build mode of objects by tapping R. Most objects have build modes, there’s directions lower on the screen as you build

[delicate chasm]

@devout igloo ^

[devout igloo]

Ohhhh

That might have been helpfull when I built like 1000+ floor pieces

[delicate chasm]

Lucky, I didn't say something to trigger that tip (or find build mode zoop) until I'd played over 100 hours.

Somebody told me here on Discord and changed my life forever.

[devout igloo]

Yk just a little helpfull

[devout igloo]

LoL

Yk i like games where you have to break your every part of your brain but this just makes me Wana hit somrone

[delicate chasm]

That's why we have a xeno basher, yeah.

[devout igloo]

The giant spiders scare me shitless

I ain't even afraid of spiders but when I see the giant one I'm screaming and running

[silk lintel]

https://youtu.be/zpr3BSxT590?t=21 this used to be the big brain way to build shit fast before zooping

(timestamped)

[devout igloo]

Reminds me of Minecraft

[delicate chasm]

Will check that out after evening hours. Can't stream video atm.

[bright sentinel]

180 limestone, 4 machines making concrete, but I only have 120 tier 2 belts

how do I set it up efficiently?

3 lines.

I figured it out from asking the question, thanks everyone

[delicate chasm]

Hey! At least I was fairly intelligent about it. This is what I was doing before somebody blessed me with the knowledge of zoop.

[bleak coral]

Is swear I killed a mouse because of that old method, sooooo many clicks, and timing it for a macro was unreliable

[steel hull]

I've probably killed a few at least in the past couple years playing these sorts of games

[strange bay]

other than dealing with paper you could use sirris.tsomaps com/calc/

[strange bay]

i needed to erase .com s dot beacause it doesnt let the link

[fleet dawn]

Can I get help with a throughput calculation?

My goal is to build an aluminum ingot factory that produces enough ingots/min to maximize the throughput of a single freight train platform. I will have a large storage container as a buffer during the loading phase, with two mk.5 belts feeding the freight platform. I'm just not sure how to make this calculation.

I suppose it depends on how often the freight platform performs the loading animation, which cuts off refil during that time. So I assume I need to calculate the round trip time of the train and use that in the calculation somehow

[vapid gorge]

There’s formula for that on the wiki page for locomotives

It’s generally safe to do 1 belt per platform (for trips that’s aren’t really really long) and is easy to manage and split at the other end.

Trying to maximize throughput of a platform is a pain in the ass because if you have any other traffic on the line then suddenly it might take a few extra seconds to complete a trip and bam you dropped your output

[fleet dawn]

Interesting, thanks. I guess I want to just get a ballpark for how many ingots/min I can handle. I wonder if just shooting for 780 and calling it there would be a safe undershoot?

[vapid gorge]

yeah like I said - 1 belt per platform of whatever your highest belt is

Unless you're doing a big loop of hte map you're pretty safe

but look at the formula for what the 'safe' time for 1 belt is

[fleet dawn]

the train loop isn't very long, just makes a tour of the northern desert mostly

okay great thanks man

[vapid gorge]

oh that's real short then

if you do wind up with too long a route you can always put a 2nd train on the route

[oblique hollow]

theres a list of optimum train times, depending on stack size:

50 per Stack
-88.62s RtD
-1083.3 Items/min

100 per Stack
-150.16s RtD
-1278.66 Items/min

200 per Stack
-273.23s RtD
-1405.4 Items/min

500 per Stack
-642.46s RtD
-1494.25 Items/min

compare the time the train takes to these values

the closer you are to these values for a given stack size, the more "efficient" your train is

[fleet dawn]

Neat. What is the RtD notation?

[vagrant adder]

I'd imagine round trip duration

[mystic verge]

does anyone know why my train is refusing to proceed forward? the on in the bottom right is supposed to just pass through the path block

[fleet dawn]

Try placing another block sign before the next y split

I've found that placing the block signs at the entrances and exits to all sections of an intersection seems to work well

[mystic verge]

wouldnt that cause a shitload of traffic tho? the wole reason I use path blocks for intersections is so that more than one train can use it at a time

does anyone know why trains might wait at a path signal when a train is stopped in the block ahead but not in the way of train waiting at the signal?

[fleet dawn]

https://youtu.be/SNyjS6Nw4Tw

No. See video.

[fluid jetty]

I wonder if there is a good way to get inspiration for factory performance spreadsheets?

[mystic verge]

this video is both outdated and I already did that

[vagrant adder]

path into path can be a bit buggy, normally I'd recommend putting a block in the middle, but since those junctions are so close together you may have issues with half the train being in and half being out of the signal section

you may need to remove the bottom right path and then just have a block at the end of both of the second junction exits. It will be a bit slower and could potentially cause traffic but it should keep things moving - generally you want to try and avoid putting 2 junctions so close together since longer trains don't handle short path sections very well

[wide roost]

the upper left train still has a reservation on that path signal entering the block, it needs to fully clear into the exit to release it

[wind spade]

how can a video be outdated if signals weren't changed since they were introduced?

[wide roost]

assuming both trains enter the picture from the bottom right

[fleet dawn]

You asked for help. I'm just telling you what works for me. If you don't want to try my solution that's fine 🤷‍♂️

[fluid jetty]

Can someone help me too?

[median heath]

Didn't include Fluids? 😭

[wide roost]

train issue?

[fluid jetty]

@wide roostThis one.

[median heath]

Define "performance"

[fluid jetty]

Like you know, you have a bunch of machine settings to track. I am looking for inspiration on a spreadsheet for that.

[wild radish]

To me it looks like the top train is parked in the intersection. Path signals only support multiple trains moving through a section, if a train is stopped in there area they work like block signals

[median heath]

Settings?

What settings are being tracked? You build the machines, you connect them, you turn them on.

Only thing being tracked is initial input of the entire system and final output as everything in the middle takes care of itself.

[median heath]

Blocks are too short.

[fluid jetty]

I see. I will just work through it myself then.

[median heath]

This is what is happening.

[mystic verge]

thats kinda annoying then but a fixable problem

[median heath]

None of your blocks should be shorter than one of the trains that need to use it.

Otherwise stuff like what you screenshotted can happen.

[mystic verge]

in fairness they arent shorter its just that one train

but good to know

[median heath]

"In fairness they aren't shorter except they are shorter than the train that got stuck, proving your entire point."

🤔 Confused. But thank you?

[mystic verge]

the long train is a personal supply train and is never automated

[median heath]

Ah.

[median heath]

Yeah those can cause issues in otherwise perfectly laid plans 😭

[mystic verge]

to be fair tho the depot was long enough to not cause issues before i extended the train to add more storage

[median heath]

Another thing that breaks said plans. 😁

[devout igloo]

I'm back here with another stupid ass splitting issue this will be hella fun

I need to split 500 into 7 different machines each inputing 67.5

[median heath]

I'm back to tell you to manifold. 😁

[devout igloo]

Fml why do I do this to myself

[devout igloo]

I'm building a cave factory this time

I litteraly can't

[median heath]

That is irrelevant to the suggestion.

[wide roost]

yeah manifold it, zero point in overcomplicating this

[median heath]

You literally can.
Because you can always manifold.

[devout igloo]

How do I manifold if I only have forward space and no more left or right

[oblique hollow]

didnt have a reference for that 🤷

[median heath]

It looked like you copy/pasted what I always post?

[devout igloo]

Or up

[oblique hollow]

you stop and build somewhere else

[median heath]

.
Maximums
50 per Stack
-88.62s RtD
-1083.3 Items/min

100 per Stack
-150.16s RtD
-1278.66 Items/min

200 per Stack
-273.23s RtD
-1405.4 Items/min

500 per Stack
-642.46s RtD
-1494.25 Items/min

Fluid Trains
-107.08s RtD
-896.52 Items/min

[wide roost]

you have a line of machines, splitter behind each one

[oblique hollow]

nah i searched for what i copied from you, not your text directly

[median heath]

Fair.

Also @devout igloo if you have a unique, self-inflicted issue, you're kind of responsible for solving it.

[devout igloo]

Fair point

Is there any way to terraform in this game?

[wide roost]

and if you have enough room to consider planning a crazy splitting system, you have room for a manifold

[median heath]

Never will be.

[oblique hollow]

and never has been

[median heath]

☝️

[devout igloo]

😭

[devout igloo]

Well splitters take less space then actuall building

Unless u use all 3 of the outouts

[devout igloo]

After all

I have fixed my problem without manifolding

I have somehoe fit 7 constructots in a 5x2block wide space

[next pewter]

You can terraform in the Minecraft way: build foundations and dismantle them afterwards! 😋

[devout igloo]

lol

[devout igloo]

is it possible to somehow do 2 smelters in a straight line back to back?

and if yes, what to do with the first smelters output

[versed violet]

yes, let me find an old pic ⌛

this was before half foundations, now its easier to build

[prisma kraken]

kind of, but its ugly

[devout igloo]

yeah i see thatt......

i guess ima just do 2 stories

thanks anyways

[prisma kraken]

if you don't mind a bit of clipping you can do this

(that's actually not too bad, now that i look at it)

[devout igloo]

i already started the 2 story one so i will see how this one looks

[versed violet]

eww, cleeping

[median heath]

Remember the OG Manufacturer model?

[versed violet]

You can put them like this to avoid clipping

[median heath]

Odd way to do this 😜

[versed violet]

Your pic clips and belts are not accessible for maintenance

[median heath]

I assure you there is no clipping.

There is at least half an inch of space between the splitter model and the Assembler intake square.

I looked. Because if it clipped I wouldn't have built this.

[versed violet]

Too close for my personal preference, I consider this distance clipping.
How is the belt access?

[prisma kraken]

clipping purists say that if the hologram is yellow, its clipping

[median heath]

How is belt access?

You mean "do it correctly the first time and never worry about it"?

[versed violet]

I do not trust my perfect-first-time ability and would prefer to be able to tell if there is an mk1 somewhere by accident

[median heath]

If you can't trust yourself, who can you trust? 🤔

[versed violet]

math

everything else is an assumption

[median heath]

Oof

[versed violet]

btw, is that assemble maniforld fitting in blueprinter? would lower the accident factor a lot

[median heath]

Technically math is also just "the most accurate assumption we have to describe things"

[prisma kraken]

nah, you can't fit them end-to-end

[versed violet]

I'm not speaking of describing, just pure math, by definition

[median heath]

You can do the Assemblers and the Smarts just fine.
Need to add the output mergers yourself though.

I think you can fit 6 total?

[versed violet]

definitely not 8. But assemblers and center manifold are enough

[median heath]

Aye

[devout igloo]

i have decided on some weird stuff to fix that problem

[prisma kraken]

i'd truthfully leave the extra space and only do one row

dropping the extra row of asm's isn't tough either, and it saves more work to do it with 2 bp's

[versed violet]

if only we had 5x5 blueprinters like the 5x5 challenge requires

[median heath]

4x4 is legit perfect.

[versed violet]

a bit too small. Can't put tower of power on foundations, because it doesnt fit vertically.

[median heath]

Some things are not meant to fit.

[bleak coral]

I constantly feel cramped using anything but assemblers and constructors, and I think that's not fun

I'd like to do more stuff with manufacturers and refineries, right now they're very limited in what you can do in a blueprint

[devout igloo]

this is how i decided to do it

that rock is litteraly against me it hates me

[median heath]

I find there is plenty that can be done with Refineries, and Manufacturers are on the "you really not supposed to BP this" list.

[versed violet]

progressive blueprinters would be nice. 4x4 at T4, 5x5 at T5 and so on. Up to 12x12 at Tier 12

[median heath]

1. Ew.
2. No.
3. There won't be a T12 🙂

[versed violet]

Jace leaked it on last stream!

[median heath]

If neither of you have played with the U8 improvements, you really should.

[versed violet]

Only a bit, Tried to make 3 phase power tower in blueprinter and it would not fit 😢

[bleak coral]

none of the U8 improvements let's me run more advanced beltwork with refineries

[silk lintel]

run like hell

😂 😂 😂 😂

i need to video this, still images don't do this monstrosity justice

[devout igloo]

IT FITS LETS GOOOO

[silk lintel]

this clipping violates the geneva convention

[bronze kestrel]

I know its a bit different for everyone, but how many heavy modular frames/min should i aim for ? To be future proof ?

[bleak coral]

you got in the first part: everything is arbitrary so that number doesn't exist

[bronze kestrel]

But there must be a number to aim for at least to have /min ?

[bleak coral]

no

we all make up our own goals

there's nothing to future proof for, you can only plan for a specific end goal

[median heath]

You can't future proof.

You pick your own target, that's how sandboxes work.

If you want my target -- 135/min

[wind spade]

just make what you need now 🙂

no reason to future-proof imo

you won't get it right anyway

[bronze kestrel]

Well i just deleted my starter factory and want to get some more organised before i start going to the nuclear tear. Thought their would be something like. At least aim for 100/min.

[elder cypress]

In would say you're better off building a larger building that can be expanded than you are trying to target a certain number of HMFs.

[wind spade]

I mean it all depends on how much you'll use HMFs for building - estimate that, and you have your number

[median heath]

90 is better than 100 for HMFs.
Or if you need to go over 100 do like 112.5

[bleak coral]

just for building material, nothing besides maybe concrete really needs more than 1 or 2 machines going to storage just to keep up with building, everything else is just whatever you feel like doing

[bronze kestrel]

Ok i get it, just checked the calcurator for 112,5. That way more then i need or even want to get in to 🥲 Point proven boys

[bleak coral]

I usually do more than that for storage, but that's just cause I like building bigger than that

[median heath]

I make 135 🤷‍♂️

[bronze kestrel]

Thats +- 33k iron 10k limestone 13k coal...

[median heath]

Um... no?

[median heath]

Costs 4.4k-5.9k Iron

Imagine using the base recipe for HMFs...

And the BASE RECIPE FOR STEEL?!!? WTF

[deft lichen]

why are you using all defaults lul

[bronze kestrel]

😄

[cinder silo]

Ouch!

[median heath]

Who TF uses the BASE Steel Ingot recipe?!?!

[bronze kestrel]

Guess i'm on the way to do some research then

And i was happy with my new smelting settup. Now i feel dumb. Nice 🙂

Only have the petrolium coke steel ingot as alternative recepe

[median heath]

?

It's a great recipe.

[bleak coral]

what if I want to eat all the coal and iron in the dune desert? 😏

[median heath]

All 3 steel alts are better than base.

None of them is "best".

[bleak coral]

it looks very nice and organized, but scaling up to the size of 100+ HMFs needs some alts to help on the resource usage or it gets unwieldy

[bronze kestrel]

Allright, never realised alt-recipe's where that important.

[median heath]

Welcome to the "correct" way to play 🙂

[deft lichen]

alts are very important

[cinder silo]

Alt recipes are surprisingly helpful in changing ingredients for stuff that is probably easier to access from where you are, there is a huge "it depends" answer as to which is more useful than others to you based on your style and location, so if you see a tier list of them, run far away because those are unhelpful at best.

[bronze kestrel]

Yeah well i'm on a big Satisfactory hike now. Funny thing is, i have done that just before the update for the power slugs. And they all respawned. Power slugs for days 🙂

[devout igloo]

3h and it worked

now the second floor

[wind spade]

people that don't have/don't want to use the alt 🤷‍♂️

[lunar pond]

thoughts on this crystal occilator/computer line, i plan on adding rcu's once i unlock aluminum stuff

[median heath]

My first issue is you're not using Insulated Oscillators 🤷‍♂️

Other than that 👍

[digital needle]

what website/app is this

i need this fr

[vapid gorge]

satisfactorytools

[digital needle]

which tool is it, i cant seem to find it

[vapid gorge]

did you google satisfactorytools ?

you can also just add a www and .com

[digital needle]

nvm i found the wrong satisfactorytools website

[lunar pond]

lmao

[dawn creek]

Radiation distance question, and the wiki:
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Radiation

I tried plugging that equation into Excel to test some distances.
I then used the numbers from some of the examples on that page to verify the spreadsheet. But things didn't match the examples there.

Like this one:
"24000 Uranium Waste - 161 meters"
I'd expect to get a safe radiation intensity of ≤0.2 when I put in 24000 Uranium Waste and 161 meters.
Instead, I get an intensity of 0.09848.
I get an intensity close to 0.2 when I use 134 meters, or if I leave it at 161 meters and change Uranium Waste's ItemDecay from 10 to 20.

When I adjusted the ItemDecay numbers to get the distances in the wiki's table of examples to work, some of them were clean multiples, or nice round numbers.

Plutonium fuel rod:
Wiki: 250.
Spreadsheet: 125.

Plutonium waste:
Wiki: 200
Spreadsheet: 400

__Uranium fuel rod: __
Wiki: 50
Spreadsheet: 60

The spreadsheet: Yellow is user-entered, blue is calculated result, and red is static data.
The second sheet in the file has the adjusted ItemDecay values that work with the table on the wiki.

Something I have not done yet: Check any of this in the actual game.

[sand epoch]

..... why?

[dawn creek]

Why to which part of that?

As in, why did I do the spreadsheet?

[naive vessel]

is that in game or thats a site

[vapid gorge]

satisfactorytools.com

[naive vessel]

thanks man!

[wind spade]

most likely thing to be wrong is the example.

but I'll check the intensities for you

[deft lichen]

the intensities on individual item pages should be correct, as those are taken from Docs

the intensities in that table are entered manually

[wind spade]

all the intensities that are on wiki are correct

so examples are what is wrong

[fluid jetty]

Which tool is this?

Oh I see nvm.

[frigid tundra]

what is the tool

how can i access it

ok i see

[dawn creek]

ooohh, greeny! Hi! Thank you so very much for SatisfactoryTools.

Thank you for checking into it. Yeah I wasn't sure where the numbers on the Wiki were coming from, so I just started messing with my spreadsheet to try to make anything match.

I haven't had chance yet to verify any of this in-game myself though; I might be able to give that a try by the weekend.

[next pewter]

Is there a way to optimise (minimise) to the number of buildings in satisfactorytools? Or maximise output with limiting one or more input resources?

As now i have the feeling he tries to minimise the sum of all inputs (exceptwater?), irrecspective of the building count.

[oblique hollow]

Tools never really minimizes building count. I think the beta version of it is trying to implement that, but currently there is no such option

The reason tools minimizes everything except water is because of resource weighting. Water is the most abundant so it doesnt try to conserve it

[snow dove]

it conserves everything but water

just look at the limit for water that tools has

[snow maple]

tools works based on item weights, where iron has a weight of 1 and everything else is determined by its map quantity divided by iron's map quantity. water is practically infinite so its weight is basically 0

[next pewter]

A ok, makes sense. So similar to the WP as mentionedi the wiki?

But to me as a user, timespent building and building resourcesalso have a weight. I know its hard orimpossible to factor in, bur its a pitty it igbores it, and would favor a minimal saving evenf if itexplodes the buildibg count.

But tharts part ofthe planning phase i guess, checking the proposed recepies and resource flows critically.

Trying to group 500 buildings somewhat logically and preferably aestetic...

[oblique hollow]

The wiki wants to kick out WP stuff because it sucks for comparing recipes

and its straight up not really feasible to evaluate production chains on how easy it is to build

[next pewter]

True. Not a complaint at all about the amazing tools the community provides, rather an observation.

Thats the added value of adding expert/engineering insight then, i guess 😅😉

[fleet dawn]

What's the verdict of flow valves used just to prevent bacflow? I'm having issues with my Aluminum Ingot factory just not balancing the water backfeed

[fleet flume]

I've used the valves for that exact purpose and they worked. Be sure the valve is pointing in the direction you want the water to flow. Leave it set for 100% flow rate. Then it only acts as a "check valve"

[fleet dawn]

Great, thanks, I'll plop a couple in and see if it fixes it

I downgraded a lot of pipes to mk.1 and that seemed to fix it, without having to use the valves

nevermind, it's borked again, hrm

valve time

[fleet flume]

Are you feeding with both "re-cycled" and fresh water? If so, the valve needs to be on the fresh water, and direction pointed towards the refineries

[cerulean folio]

If your issue is related to the recycled water not being used "first" when you have other water connected, and thus occasionally backing up, this will solve it much better than a valve

Bottom pipe is recycled, top is fresh, basically acts like a merger with permanent priority given to the recycled line

[fleet dawn]

Great, I'll take a look if the solution I just implemented doesn't work

Tuned on half the refineries, gonna let the system prime for a bit then turn on the others

[wind spade]

beta can do it but is broken in different ways

[fleet flume]

Yes, I suppose I should have asked if you were getting too much water backing up, or too little water going in.

[wind spade]

wiki actually copied WP from tools 😛

[wind spade]

basically - never use valves

[fleet dawn]

Ignore the (temporary) clipping

[cerulean folio]

yeah i believe thats the classic case for a VIP junction

I exclusively use valves for these guys, otherwise none of my factories have a single valve

[fleet dawn]

God damnit I'm an idiot

one of my water extractors wasn't turned on

[cerulean folio]

100% of the times i thought I had mysterious flow rate issues that needed crazy circuits to solve it turned out to be something like this 😛

[fleet dawn]

I was just confused, been working on this problem for 3 hours, never had a problem like this

"My computer won't turn on"
"Is it plugged in?"
"OHHH Thanks!"

[oblique hollow]

please make sure to not merge fresh and recycled water. using valves does not guarantee that there wont be failures

[next pewter]

Is there a theoretical way to get this to work andnot gobble up to much or too little plastic/rubber?
Maybe throttling the output as these are more decent /round numbers... (i'll steer away from it either way, i dont trust it... )

[oblique hollow]

kickstart it

by throwing in some plastic manually

then you use smart splitters

with overflow output as the actual output for production

[next pewter]

Smart splitters w prio to the outgoing lines, right, might work

[wind spade]

or using the residual rubber you get from polymer resin

[oblique hollow]

Definitely works

[wind spade]

don't even need to kickstart

[oblique hollow]

source: did this countless times

[next pewter]

It just looks soo goofy/weird.

Basically a catalysator w fuel being convertded

[oblique hollow]

its very funny

[bleak coral]

It's very efficient

[bleak coral]

Outgoing lines are overflow. You just let the whole system saturate, same as any manifold, just the last side is to other processes. Technically the smart splitter isn't even necessary for every setup, but it's easier to just do it than the think about the math every time

[clear barn]

can i ask where those lessons can be found?

[cerulean folio]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/3/39/Pipeline_Manual.pdf

[clear barn]

damn this is higher quality than i thought

is there one for belts as well?

[cerulean folio]

Not that im aware of, probably not quite as needed

The game should require you to pass a test on the valve page in that manual before allowing you to place a single valve tbh

Or just include a warning 'PROBABLY NOT THE RIGHT SOLUTION FOR ANY PROBLEM' in the item description for valves

[true junco]

Yeah. A conveyor manual would be handy. Save a lot of unneccessary rehashing of conversations with new players.

I do have several Conveyor manuals at home actually... like, actual conveyor manuals. 😆 yall thank CSS profusely for not making the ingame conveyors as complex as IRL ones. Lol

[wind spade]

again, you can use the residual rubber to kickstart

[next pewter]

Hmm, might give it a go after all then.

!wikisearch blueprint

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=blueprint

[tropic tangle]

Hey ppl, sorry if this isn't the best place to ask. I'm not super experienced with the production planner on the calculator site... Is it possible to insert another alternate recipe in the middle of a plan?

ie. i'm making heavy modular frames, but i'd like to use an alternate recipe for the reinforced plates

[next pewter]

Can 3 constructors fit on top of eachother in a blueprint? Just 2 i guess?

[delicate chasm]

@true junco The DF talk probably should get moved, right? And that's my bad. I should've @'d you with my reply and cross-referenced the post just now.

[next pewter]

Wiki says 34m height. Constructor is 8 in theory, but idk the encroaching box siwze

[clear barn]

in general it would be a nice sort of companion to the pipe one and would be a nice collection for ideas like balancers etc and how the math works.

[bleak coral]

yeah you can select alternates under options, assuming you only want to use just one alternate for all reinforced plates. It can't use multiple recipes for a single item

you might also want to check out satisfactory tools which gives you the ability to turn on and off all recipes instead of just selecting one, and if there are limited resources it'll use multiple recipes. though there too you can't really force it beyond limiting resources: https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production (ignore the U6 thing, recipes haven't change sinced U6 so the production planner is still up to date)

[tropic tangle]

Thank you! I'll take a look.

oh wowowowow this is perfect. Thank you so much!

[silk lintel]

kind of reminds me of fast breed reactor lol

[fleet dawn]

Finally got it working. I just deleted all the water pipes and rebuilt it. Something was just buggy with it. Worked fine on first try after rebuilding it. Got 645/min Alum Ingots online finally after hours of Water troubleshooting

[bleak coral]

btw just some quick tips on tools to use it better:

recipe decisions when set to items/min is decided by optimizing for least resources used weighting them by how rare they are on the map, so if it's not doing what you'd like it to do, you're probably trying to optimize for something else and need to turn off those recipes it's choosing

you can set resources limits in the items, input tab as well as add items you're importing in from elsewhere

you can change from items/min to max, which will instead of solving for efficient resource usage solve for most items it can make based on the items, input tab, but it only solves for most so it may use resources that aren't the bottleneck inefficiently, best to always take that number and switch back to items/min so it solves better. Also multiple items set to max doesn't really work, as it sets every item set to max for the same ppm which is rarely what is actually wanted.

nuclear waste isn't created as an input organically, you have to enter it manually in the items, input tab

[hidden drift]

whats a good coal powet setup?

[bleak coral]

as long as the input matches the generator usage, it's a good setup

easiest is 3 extractors to 8 coal generators

[delicate chasm]

I'd say 1 water extractor @75% into 2 coal generators (which is the same as the 3:8 ratio so probably still counts for what Lund is saying) is the absolute easiest coal setup.

[bleak coral]

depends on whether you're comfortable with bypassing pipe limits yet, which theoretically one should by the time they're done with coal

that's why the default 100% ratio goes beyond 1 pipe limit

[hidden drift]

aaahhh ill try it

i last played in update 6 soo its a bit different now

[bleak coral]

should be exactly the same as U6, hasn't been a change to coal since U4

[hidden drift]

i mean the game it seldf

[bleak coral]

yeah game is mostly the same, U7 really just added blueprints and a few cosmetic items

[silk lintel]

was there even a change to coal in U4

other than it being an input for aluminum swapped around with coke

[bleak coral]

general power change to run 100% all the time

[silk lintel]

oh right duh

[bleak coral]

which I guess if I count that, there was also a change in U7 to the clock speeds so they became linear

my bad lol

[rigid copper]

someone jig my memory on how to do maths... Biomass burner burns 4 per minute, i have 200 in there. what do i do to work out how long 200 actually lasts?

[hidden drift]

240 per hr

so you broke

50 min 😛

[rigid copper]

i got the 240 but couldnt figure out how to get the time for 200 😄

[bleak coral]

it's just 200/4

[rigid copper]

im 32, not really done math since school 👀

[hidden drift]

200=50min

[rigid copper]

omfg you're right... i need to slap myself.

[bleak coral]

brain farts, we all get them

probably overcomplicated it in your head

[rigid copper]

yea i was massively

trying to work out how long 1 lasts in seconds etc

nevermind. thanks 😄

[bleak coral]

if you want to get a little complicated you can just remember units can be treated like variables so 200 biomass / (4 biomass/min), the biomass cancels out and the minutes goes from the bottom to the top

[delicate chasm]

Lund has Dissociative Mathematics Disorder.

Their brain abstracts all numbers to relative infinity and then collapses back to singularity as the correct answer.

Do not try to do what they do with numbers; greater men than us have gone mad when hearing this Call of Cmathlu

[bleak coral]

I have ADHD and math is a hyperfocus, yes

so my brain may work a bit.... differently.... lol

[rigid copper]

yea i grew up hyper focusing on maths myself. its the only GCSE i passed through test only, 0 coursework.

[bleak coral]

ah yes tests, my teachers loved me taking those, they did not love me seeing homework as optional

it also was not always optional

[rigid copper]

i was in college by time i was 14 because i was "too bright for highschool"... now i cant even work out simple maths lmao

[delicate chasm]

Man I hate kids like us. I was this way too and I can't stand seeing children with that attitude now.

Really shot myself through the foot just 'testing out' of every middle school grade.

[rigid copper]

years of brain abuse 👀 we wont detail how.

[bleak coral]

it's a catch-22 though, and I think adults miss that a lot, cause natural intuitiveness only goes so far, and eventually the student hits their personal wall for that and now they have no idea how to study cause they didn't pick that up with everyone else

[rigid copper]

in my year at school, only 14% passed their exams. the year later after i left, my highschool turned into an academy and that number rose to 76%

so basically my school fucked me over 😄

then i discovered... things but hey ho. thanks for rejigging simple maths for me lol

[delicate chasm]

What's funny about the system taught in American schools is, that's how I did mental math when I was in school (am 36 years old).

36 becomes 10 10 10 6
becomes 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 1

If you have enough organic RAM you can easily turn a 4- or 5-digit number into several 1-digit numbers with a multiplier attached, and then reconstruct it all at the end after doing single digit calculations.

It's an absolutely asinine way of doing math on paper but it's totally reasonable and quite fast for small sums and mental math.

[rigid copper]

give me long multiplication and long division, algebra and many other math problems in forms of sums, i'll sit there and just work it out in seconds. but now in my age, trying to figure out equations seems hard

i had to be constantly told "show your methods" and i was always like "why, i do it my head"

even stuff like trigonometry and pythagoras i used to always attempt to work in my head.

[bleak coral]

technically this is pretty much what computers are doing too, lol
brute force everything through simple add/subtract (and maybe multiply/divide or matrix if it's a special enough chip) of 1s and 0s

[delicate chasm]

Yeah exactly. Lowest common denominator is useful in basic addition and subtraction, I SWEAR. 😁

Reduction of the number 6 to the question of "3*2" is helpful in mental math.

[rigid copper]

my kids are always like "dad how did you work that math out so quickly" when they bring me their homework etc. i just see numbers differently 🤷

[bleak coral]

it's also useful in load balancing (in a vain attempt to keep this vaguely on topic)

[rigid copper]

to bring it back to topic, to save me the headache, how much coal does a coal gen use per min?

[bleak coral]

15

only where that's in game is once the coal gens start running, so I have no problem just telling people that

[rigid copper]

so a normal node with basic miner can power 4 generators? obviously with the correct water supply too

[bleak coral]

yeah, if it's using a mk1 miner

[rigid copper]

cool, see i can do it xD

[bleak coral]

they really do need to put that somewhere that doesn't require starting up a generator, it's annoying cause you can't just plop one down and shove some in, need the fluid input too

[rigid copper]

yea i tried to do that just then and was like "ugh"

[bleak coral]

guess they could just list the energy in the descriptions of stuff like most factory games do, but I get the feeling they don't want people to need to know how to convert between MW and MJ

[delicate chasm]

Yeah they already have some difficulties with MW and MWh.

[wild radish]

I think the ideal place to put the burn times for fuels would be on the codex page for each generator. So like if you looked at a coal generator in the codex it would show a bunch of recipes of the burn time for each fuel it accepts.

[bleak coral]

I agree, simple and easy solution

at least from a UI perspective, don't know if it's complicated from the code side

[wild radish]

• it would give a reason to actually look at any buildings in the codex

[delicate chasm]

It's complicated because burn time varies according to clock. Especially for biomass, the only way to realistically display it WOULD be to display the potential energy of 1 unit.

You could just specify @ 100%...it's cluttery though.

[bleak coral]

it's not really complicated at all, all the recipes are shown at 100%

it's just a recipe but power is the product

besides they added clock speeds to the codex at some point anyway

[devout igloo]

how do you fill up a corner?

[delicate chasm]

Ramp walls and don't fill it, corner ramps and do fill it, leave terrarium in middle of factory and keep building it bigger - options.

[next pewter]

3 is possible, w room underneath or on top for splitting/merging.

Shouldve moved em downwards though, so i could merge on top rather than below 😓

[wintry agate]

12 max overclocked coal gens NICE

[fleet dawn]

Nice! Though soon you will be building on whole different scale!

20,000mw from this plant from 1 pure oil node!

And this isn't even a big plant compared to what some in here have built!

[devout igloo]

Isn't nuclear power plants better if your going to make it this big?

[fleet dawn]

Debatable. It's significantly more complex and time consuming.

You can build more power than you'd ever need from the plentiful oil nodes only

But nuclear is more efficient at scale

I agree with others that diluted fuel alternate recipes are a bit OP

If they nerfed them, it may encourage people to dabble in nuclear

[bleak coral]

tbh the low wattage of the fuel generators already encourages that, 150MW per generator leads to absolutely massive arrays of fuel generators dwarfing the production side

[wintry agate]

Dude wth I thought I had enough power till tier 8 or something this man makes prob 2 million mw and still aint enough lmaoo

[snow dove]

from personal experience, yeah…

[snow dove]

2 million isn’t possible, max is like 700GW iirc

[deft lichen]

1.19 TW from max nuclear

so 1.19 million MW if you put it that way

[fleet dawn]

Dude go look at the latest post in #satisfactory-experimental message . His power plant is like 100x mine

Wait sorry wrong channel

[bleak coral]

I was gonna say I've got just a humble 100 gen plant lol

[wintry agate]

Bro whay "GW" "TW" yall are confusing me

[fleet dawn]

There click now

[wintry agate]

Gw is 1000MW and TW 1000000?

[wind spade]

indeed

SI units 🙂

[deft lichen]

yes, have you never used metric units? with data at least, kB MB GB...

[wintry agate]

I know for a fact that I have a 2TB PC lol it makes sense now is it also possible to get 1 PW?

[bleak coral]

nope

[wintry agate]

Oh lol

[bleak coral]

👆

[wintry agate]

Oh

[deft lichen]

max nuclear exhausts some resources entirely

[bleak coral]

just uranium

[deft lichen]

not sulfur or bauxite?

[bleak coral]

not even close

[wintry agate]

Is 1.19 TW enough for everything you are gonna do in the game?

Lol

[bleak coral]

max turbo fuel kills sulfur

cause sulfur is the bottleneck for turbofuel, on a world scale

[bleak coral]

almost twice as much, max sink points/minute is like 600-700GW, and that's only theoretically possible, game would be unplayable at that size

[wintry agate]

Turbofuel can only be used for cars right?

[bleak coral]

no, it can be used in fuel gens

[wintry agate]

Wydm sink points? Ticket shop thingy?

[deft lichen]

yes

[wintry agate]

Oh

[wintry agate]

Oh lol

[bleak coral]

it's our only measure for an end goal, so it's the solve used for maxing out the map in theoretical discussions

[wintry agate]

Wtf maxing out the map?? How is that even possible if the only things you get is a jetpack and blade runners

Or do you just play 6000 hrs a day

[fleet dawn]

My sweet summer child lol

[bleak coral]

thought I'd check, sulfur usage is ~45% and bauxite ~33% for max nuclear, so quite a bit but also a ton leftover

[fleet dawn]

Some people go crazy in this game

[wintry agate]

LMAOO

[bleak coral]

no one actually is making a maxed out map, the game can't handle that many entities

[wintry agate]

BRO wtf i just discovered oil 2 days ago and it was 4000 meters from where my base was

[bleak coral]

it's just fun theoretical stuff and gives an interesting perspective on different recipes and logistics

[wintry agate]

Well if you have an RTX 9090 Ti 100TB Storage and 128GB ram you can

[bleak coral]

nah it's a software limit not a hardware one

[wintry agate]

Oh lol

[bronze kestrel]

Can't pick, i kinda want the middle and the left one

[fleet dawn]

If you're using 45% of any resource in this game, you're who I'm talking about:D

[wintry agate]

I just thought about minecraft tot for a while lol

[deft lichen]

could squeeze some TF power then, so the max could be around 1.5 TW

[wintry agate]

Even tho last time I played the game I was 15

[deft lichen]

pick whichever you want, I personally only use encased frames for HMF, sloppy alumina is also decent

[bleak coral]

but like knowing that a maxed map can't use all the limestone and nitrogen in the game lets you know those two are never bottlenecks even at a theoretical rediculous degree, so on a practical level you don't need to worry about preserving them

[bronze kestrel]

Picking the left one now, does that mean i wont be able to get the middle one again ?

[bleak coral]

just as an example of something that can be learned from purely theoretical plans

[deft lichen]

you will! there are more drives than alts

you can get all alt recipes

[bronze kestrel]

Allright nice, thanks!

[fleet dawn]

If you have pure alum ingot I'd get 2, otherwise 3

[wintry agate]

Is there nitrogen in satisfactory? Lol this game turned into astroneer

[bleak coral]

not far off, ~1.7TW total for every power source: #math-and-meta message

[fleet dawn]

Yes

And sulfuric acid!

[deft lichen]

ah, great!

[wintry agate]

Lmao which tier

[deft lichen]

8
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Nitrogen_Gas

[fleet dawn]

I believe tier 7 phase 4

[bronze kestrel]

15 more drives to go. I kinda liked the middle one. But i also needed another HMF one. So yeah... Pray for the middle one coming back soon

[wintry agate]

I aldo saw uranium on a thumbnail of a video lol

[wintry agate]

Bro Tier 8? Isnt that the last phase?

[deft lichen]

it is

[bleak coral]

imagine placing over 3000 fuel gens though 0_o

[wintry agate]

Bro wtf 14 fuel gens is on oil node

How is there 210 oil nodes in the map

[deft lichen]

diluted fuel and turbofuel

also overclocking extractors for starters

[wintry agate]

How do you make turbofuel?

[bleak coral]

diluted fuel is ludicrously efficient

[deft lichen]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Turbofuel

[bleak coral]

well it plus the heavy oil residue alt

wombo combo of efficiency

maybe a hot take but diluted fuel is fine, and it's HOR that's the problem

[fleet dawn]

I have 140 fuel gens running off 1 pure oil node. Alternate recipes and overclocking change everything!

[fleet dawn]

One of the two probably needs a nerf indeed

Make nuclear more attractive

[wintry agate]

😳

[deft lichen]

nuclear is easy peasy but people tend to overbuild for power they won't use

[wintry agate]

How do you even find turbofuel nodes lol

[deft lichen]

did you check the wiki page? you craft it...

[wintry agate]

But the game is mostly about making a farm and staying afk so if you dont have anything else to do and dont wanna afk i understand why they re making extra ones

[wintry agate]

Oh ye nvm lol

[fleet dawn]

Afk time is time spent planning next factory or exploring for hard drives!

[deft lichen]

a nuclear power plant that makes the same power as a turbofuel plant is a bit easier to build

[wintry agate]

Its fuel x compacted coal

[deft lichen]

turbo blend fuel is my fav

[wintry agate]

I use the interactive map when hunting for drives or slugs lil

Also 1 more thing what does the alien artifacts do

[deft lichen]

nothing

[fleet dawn]

Nothing yet

[deft lichen]

they're patiently waiting for 1.0

[fleet dawn]

As said in the description of them when you mouse over them 🙂

[wintry agate]

It just makes annoting sound that makes people unconfortable? Lol

[bleak coral]

I never afk to accomplish anything, it's not needed

[fleet dawn]

COMPLY

[bleak coral]

build bigger, then you have something to do and stuff doesn't take as long

[wintry agate]

Ye lol true but i did not believe that

[deft lichen]

I'm so slow to build anything that stuff piles up without afking

[wintry agate]

Bro I can't afk in this game my fucking pc explodes if i do

[snow dove]

yeah that’s probably not a good thing…

[wintry agate]

We are in 0.7 right now right?

[bleak coral]

sounds like you haven't attached an AC unit directly to your PC 😏

[snow dove]

mhm

update 10 isn’t guaranteed to be update 1.0 tho

it could be

[wintry agate]

Well what I meant is that the fans are making my pc turn into a helicopter

[deft lichen]

you know Minecraft, 1.9 was followed by 1.10

so 0.9 can be followed by 0.10

[wintry agate]

Ye but i dont play it anymore last time i did it was during corono cant believe its already been 3.5 years

[deft lichen]

point being how the versioning works

[wintry agate]

Ye i understand that lmao

Nice pf pic btw

[deft lichen]

anything added past 1.4 is new to me, what do you mean horses have been in the game for almost 10 years

[wintry agate]

Bro i dont think thats true when I started playing it was Version 1.6 or somthing

[deft lichen]

waiting for U8 stability patches now so I can resume playing Satis

[wintry agate]

My game does not crash

So ye

I can play it i guess

[wintry agate]

Did you update all of ur drivers?

Like Nvidia drivers and such

[snow dove]

ondar prolly just has a higher end card

[wintry agate]

I upgraded to a 4080 2 weeks ago idk if thats high end or normal but it can run any game perfectlt fine

[snow dove]

that isn’t the issue

U8 is just having issues with higher end cards rn

[wintry agate]

Oh a nvidia update came out a couple hours ago maybe he should update his card if he didnt update it yet

[snow dove]

i just realized, #satisfactory-experimental

[wintry agate]

Update 8?

Bro I cant believe its still early acces

It has so many things

[deft lichen]

got an AMD RX580, I moved the game to an SSD which helped reduce the lag a bit, but it still runs worse than U7 (without lumen ofc)

[snow dove]

i lucked out performance wise

[wintry agate]

Ugh idk if thats a good card idk anything about AMD besides the cpu

[deft lichen]

1080 equivalent

[wintry agate]

Oh that aint bad i guess

[deft lichen]

used to be average when I bought the machine but it's somewhat on the lower end now

[wintry agate]

Is there a way to play in third person lol?