math-and-meta

[azure shadow]

what do you mean?

[median heath]

HOR is one of the only objectively superior recipes in the game.. and you'd take SilCB over it?

[wind spade]

superior in terms of resource -> product ratio 🙂

[azure shadow]

i guess thats fair, in my last play through i really didnt use many alternate recipes so i dont put too much thought into it

[quiet rapids]

I got the oil one and just noticed i dont have crude near me 😦

[azure shadow]

yuup
around 1500 m away im guessing?

[quiet rapids]

2500

[azure shadow]

oh dang

[median heath]

You're admitting that you don't know and don't put to much thought into it, yet you're telling people what to pick after not putting thought into it?

I am so confused...

[quiet rapids]

I based at the bottom of the map. Regrets now

[primal flicker]

That's not so far, really. Especially with a vehicle or Zipline setup.

[azure shadow]

im not the smartest

i just like ciruit boards

[azure shadow]

or with blade runners

[quiet rapids]

Will be easy once i set them up, for now im running there then a foundation all the way back

[primal flicker]

The heavy oil residue is a real force multiplier for most things that depend on crude oil

[wind spade]

at the cost of increased complexity

[primal flicker]

Yes. Via the recycling loop.

[wind spade]

and packaging loop

[primal flicker]

Also true, but at least that one can be made as a 1:1:1 blueprint.

[tired viper]

Hi hi

I don't fully understand what the water pump does

Can you help me? ^^

[median heath]

Pump or Extractor?

[tired viper]

Pipeline Pump

Maximum Head Lift 20

[oblique hollow]

they are for going up

head lift = height of fluid in meters

it just means the pump pushes fluids 20 meters up

[tired viper]

oh

[oblique hollow]

thats all they do

[tired viper]

like vertical pumping

[oblique hollow]

yes

vertical only

[tired viper]

So little inclined it doesn't need it

[oblique hollow]

likely not

the water extractor itself has 10 m head lift

that is roughly up to the top of the round housing of the water extractor

if you go above, you need to place a pipeline pump low enough so liquid can reach the pump

[potent crater]

?

[median heath]

2

[azure shadow]

i personally really like caterium wire

[oblique hollow]

thats fine

[potent crater]

too late lmao, but I have 5 more hard drive... I won’t be able to choose pfff so hard sometimes

[median heath]

Keep posting them.

I have yet to see an image that was a hard choice 🙂

And I have people who dm me them on a daily basis.

[potent crater]

but im on a new save, I'm only tier 4... not very interesting

[azure shadow]

how come you didnt choose cat wire ?

[oblique notch]

In a few days the map will seem much smaller once you are familiar getting around. I jet around between the Gold oil Coast and the Blue crater all the time.

[potent crater]

is cat wire so good ?

[oblique notch]

They're all good for one reason or another

[azure shadow]

its very fast to produce wire

[potent crater]

damn

[oblique notch]

Just some have different bonuses you may not care about

[median heath]

Because a) I have better things to spend Caterium on, b) I have better options for making Wire, c) Priority goes to the single highest Copper Ingot conversion recipe in the game...

[oblique notch]

Those are Sevs reasons. They may not be yours.

[median heath]

^

[azure shadow]

what else is there to spend caterium on i didnt really think there was any

[median heath]

The "Steel Screw" of Wire is not a bad recipe.
Just of the 3 options, I'm taking Pure Cu.

[azure shadow]

i knoww :)

[median heath]

Someone hasn't been to higher tiers yet 😉

[oblique notch]

I would have picked the frames in my last world because I was mostly running a primary steel setup. In this world I'm running a primary Rubber/Plastic (ie coated variants) setup and so would just have grabbed whatever.

My rule of thumb: do I think I'll start using thet recipe before my next hard drive is found/unlocked? If no, then pick left most and move on. If yes, pick that one

[median heath]

Always pick Biocoal 😉

[potent crater]

new debate

[median heath]

3

[oblique notch]

2 so I just don't ever see that in a HD again

[potent crater]

ahah

[oblique notch]

And get it out of thr way now

[median heath]

Valid.

[azure shadow]

i dont know much about the alternate recipes im now realizing

[median heath]

Also give me a hard choice 🙃

[potent crater]

In 10 minutes !

[oblique notch]

There are no straight-up objectively bad ones, with biocoal perhaps being the most niche.

There are subjectively bad ones depending on your goals and playstyle

[median heath]

The only one I've gotten that made me pause was because all 3 options were just... shit.

[median heath]

I would say Fine Concrete is subjectively decent until you reach the beginning of the game. Then it is just bad...

So it's like a "timed relevance" recipe.

[wise python]

idk like I can't think of a reason why someone would want to use rubber or something to make cables. I swear the game hates me with hard drives as quite a few of them end up being a worse recipe for cables.

[oblique notch]

shrug I haven't tried to play around for with that one yet to know

[median heath]

You mean the 2 best ways to make Cable in the game?

[wise python]

😭 i dont see how its better when cable is a really basic thing

[oblique notch]

Because there is an entire set of recipes that use rubber and plastic (which can be made from each other) allowing you to have a set up across your world where that is your primary backbone product instead of Iron and Copper (which is the default)

Likewise there is a set for doing the same with steel

[median heath]

Yield per input.
We did a whole breakdown thread on Cable recipes earlier this year.

[true junco]

Isnt that inevitable if you get enough of the good ones? Lol

[median heath]

Quickwire and Insulated? are the top 2 methods iirc.

[oblique notch]

Many alts really shine when you combine them as part of a philosophy of your entire world

[median heath]

True.

[wise python]

Ah I see

maybe I should have gone for them but at least the 3rd options I get seem useful in the moment

[median heath]

Quickwire is my preference so I don't recall if Wire + Cable or Wire + HOR was the other top contender.

[tired viper]

oof

with mk1 pipe linesI have 3 generators for 360, but pipes can only move 300...

[median heath]

And?
As long as no single section is being asked to push 300 you can easily get 360 into a pipe system.

[tired viper]

?

But I'm like 60 at loss, right?

[median heath]

I don't know how I could word that any more clearly.
@oblique notch do you want to try?

[true junco]

Send 300 into one end of the pipe manifold... send 60 in the other end... or amy othercombi that adds to 360

[tired viper]

The thing is I've 3 water extractors (120 each, right?) but I fuse them on a single line with a junction cross...and then i split in 2

So it goes only 150, right?

[median heath]

"As long as no single section"

"I fuse them on a single line"

See the issue?

[tired viper]

No, sorry

I started playing this game like 4 days ago

[azure shadow]

i tend to use water extractors fully overclocked because its a nice number

[median heath]

You don't see how "no single" and "I'm using single" is the issue??

[wise python]

as long as 1 machine does not need 360 then you should be good. What are they going to? If its something like 4 machines that you are splitting the water into then lay it out like this so no point goes above 300

[median heath]

Where am I failing in word choice?

[azure shadow]

i dont believe you are

[tired viper]

You're not

[median heath]

sighs in relief

[tired viper]

English is not my first language, and I'm super new at this game

I've 6 coal generators and 3 water extractors

[oblique notch]

Split the lines. Once machines start taking from the line it's no longer at 300 and leaves room for more to get pumped in.

So put 2 extractors on one line for 240 and put the other extractor on a other line for 120. After 3 coal generators junction in the 2nd linr

[azure shadow]

its okay i still feel like a newbie and i have 400 hours

[tired viper]

So I fused the 3 extractors, and then splited them in 6

[wise python]

thats fair, one of my friends struggled with understanding flow rate until i told him to treat it like a conveyor

[oblique notch]

@tired viper see this diagram for setups

[tired viper]

I'm looking at it

[oblique notch]

Oof that will lead to problems

[tired viper]

But it's for 8, right?

[azure shadow]

i quite enjoy that diagram, did you make it?

[wise python]

Yeah but for basic understanding

[oblique hollow]

eh.. still dangerous

if you put one thing onto a conveyor, it moves along it and then reaches the end

if you put one m³ into a pipe, it will just sit there

[oblique notch]

For basic understanding: put the pipe in one big long line, and junction machines on it. Every time you add an extractor it adds to the total. Every time you add a generator it removes from the total. The total starts at 0 and can never go above the max flow rate of the pipe

[median heath]

Thinking about pipes in terms of belts leads to issues 😬

[oblique hollow]

because fluid wants to sit at the lowest point of a pipe until there is enough fluid to move it

also, belts dont go in 2 directions, unlike pipes

[tired viper]

So that means you never fuse the lines?

_> sorry

[oblique notch]

So ...

E--e--g--g-g

Is safe (adding 240 then removing 135)

E--e--g-e-g-g

Is not safe. (Adding 240. Removing 45, adding 120 oops..higher than 300)

[oblique hollow]

the lines are merged, do you see the dashed lines?

[oblique notch]

You can fuse lines up to the max throughput

E--e--g--g--g--e--g--g

Also.safe
120+120-45-45-45 (105) +120 (225) -45-45 (still.above zero. Never at any point was above 300)

[oblique hollow]

example from my coal plant

2 extractors connected to the left end, 1 on the right end

[median heath]

Nice flashlight bro.

[oblique hollow]

blashlight

[median heath]

😁

[azure shadow]

yours is much, much prettier than mine

[tired viper]

uhm

[potent crater]

and now ? easy right

2 for sure

[oblique hollow]

if you need caterium, yea

[tired viper]

So the most efficient would be 3 WE/ 8 CG ?

[oblique hollow]

yes

or any multiple of that

[median heath]

1
Also no 3rd option?

[median heath]

(Hoping U8 fixes what they broke with clearance so I can build this again...)

[tired viper]

When trying to build foundation I get a green "warning" and beep

[oblique notch]

we showing off coal plants now?

[tired viper]

But no message, what's that? I've all the items

[potent crater]

because the 3 is so much better, it's not interesting to debate with.

[azure shadow]

ooh, ill send my plant here in a bit

currently out

[oblique notch]

fair on this one. it is going to be removed

or replaced with something else

[median heath]

Way to hit me right in the Yellow Light... 😭

[oblique notch]

more water than necessary being added to the system because of bottom fed and interest in appearance over green lights.

[median heath]

Fair.
Pure Ct still has my vote.

[azure shadow]

i wouldve chosen cast screws

[oblique notch]

pfft. I just never use screws. Why need cast screw if you never have to use them?

[azure shadow]

how do you manage to not use screws

[median heath]

Cast matters until you get either of the Steel alts.

[oblique notch]

Alts.

[potent crater]

jam & sevrahn never agree with each other

[median heath]

And in terms of pure resource-efficiency, the only thing you should use Screws for once you have all unlocks is Copper Rotor.

[median heath]

Jam did admit they don't put thought into alt choices 🤷‍♂️

[oblique notch]

RiPs, Rotors, Computers, and HMFs are what need screws by default.

RIPS - Adhered Iron plate or Stiched Iron Plate
Rotors - Steel Rotors
Computers - Crystal Computers or Caterium Comptuer
HMF - Heavy Encased Frame

No screws needed anymore in your production lines.

take a stack of rods with you to the hand crafting station and turn it into screws for your equipment, then never look back

[azure shadow]

i just happen to have a use for cast screws right now

[tired viper]

Excuse me, that means option A is using9 junctions?

[median heath]

Yes

[oblique notch]

yes? so what?

[oblique hollow]

yea, or you just pick an existing junction

[tired viper]

...I'm just asking

[oblique hollow]

it simply a 9th junction so the design is symmetric

[oblique notch]

no worries - just trying to figure out where the disconnect is so we can learn you some proper SFFluid dynamics 😉

[tired viper]

Ok, now I think I understand ^^u

[sand epoch]

hit 'Alt'

[median heath]

@oblique notch curious:

What 3 recipes do you think would be the hardest choice in an HDD roll?

[oblique notch]

none? If i cant decide i just take the left most and move on.

[median heath]

What's something that would make you not able to decide then?

[oblique notch]

i rarely use the recipes while unlocking them - or even right away. It will be mid-late to late game before i start using most alts in most situations.

Or, like my current world, i unlocked them all with SCIM and am building the alts I want to use from the get go.

[sand epoch]

it's not a real decision. you get them all eventually.

[oblique notch]

eh. Depends on where I am in the process, but usually if its nothing im currently working on. Ie i get an alt for RIP, Frames, Screws and im working on ... i donno. Encased beams. Dont need any of those for that, so eh, dump it.

[median heath]

None of our decisions are real because smokes blunt it's all a simulation bro.

[sand epoch]

We are all Copper Tops.

[oblique notch]

if im not going to immediately use it in the next thing i plan to build, then just grab whichever one and slot the next HD

[median heath]

Fair.

[oblique notch]

Alternate slightly - if im looking for a specific recipe because I want to use that in my next build. But most of the time If im unlocking as I go i dont care, and if i care now I just use SCIM to unlock it for me because i can't be arsed to go through the process for the 10th time.

[median heath]

I just went through it for the 15th time 😂

[quiet rapids]

Got a jetpack of a hog now just need fuel for it, cant wait to stop slide cancelling

[median heath]

Stop?

You mean slide-jump into increased range with jetpack?

[quiet rapids]

wait thats a thing?! oh god....

[sand epoch]

you do that MORE with fuel...

[quiet rapids]

csgo strafing days coming back xD

[median heath]

You will never stop slide-jumping if your goal is getting around faster.

[sand epoch]

and getting through hostile territories with low ammo..

[median heath]

[quiet rapids]

[sand epoch]

[median heath]

Mostly I go through quickly when it's like "I could kill everything here... but I don't need to..."

[potent crater]

@azure shadow time for fight

[median heath]

[azure shadow]

dont have preference

steel rod i guess

[oblique notch]

Picking alrs is related to efficiency usually, and efficiency is boring to me. It's a solved problem. You decide what your end goal is and the math is already done to make it happen

Most points per minute? Solved. .
Most Nuclear Pasta per minute? Solved.
Totally utilization of all iron with most points possible out of that? Solved.

So that's boring to me

Instead I build factories that interest me. A combination of looking good, built interesting, displaying motion, and usually using recipe combinations that are "off meta"

[median heath]

1 stack per minute of each item worth storing?

Error solving. Too many variables. Must build individual outposts with whatever recipes you feel like because replayability of the game is insanely good.

[scarlet wedge]

bolted frames are ok if you have the cast screw recipe

[median heath]

Oof

[deft lichen]

I will forever hate bolted recipes

[scarlet wedge]

40 hours in my newest save, havent had the drop yet for it

[median heath]

Bolted Frames are good if you use any of the good ways to make Screws.

[oblique notch]

My current goal is building a munitions plant that is serviced by drones and provides, by drones, to multiple outposts access the map so I can always have access to ammo and explosives wherever

[deft lichen]

fused wire pairs well with the quickwire alt that uses copper
bolted frame
steel rod can be used to make screws for cheap resource-wise when combined with default scew

[median heath]

Bolted Frame has merit because we don't have Stitched or Adhered Frame. 🤷‍♂️

[deft lichen]

steel frame though

[median heath]

Ew

[deft lichen]

😍

[median heath]

Base Frame using Steel Rod though.

[deft lichen]

I always overestimate the amount of steel pipes to make so I dump them in steel frames, works every time

[elder cypress]

I used to hate screws, then I learned the power of steel screws.

[median heath]

Steel Screw and Steel Rod are what make Cast Screw irrelevant once you hit T3-4.

[scarlet wedge]

why are they better just higher yields?

i havent done much with alt recipes i get caught up too much in building and dont explore enough

[azure shadow]

same

[oblique notch]

Screws are mostly hated because you need so many. Like multiple belts worth.

So producing them faster is generally preferable... if you're going to use them at all

[scarlet wedge]

you need a hell of alot of screws later game

[median heath]

Steel Screw is the most space-saving way to make Screws.
Steel Rod + Base is the most resource-efficient way to make Screws.

Pick which metric matters to you and you're golden.

[median heath]

For what?

[scarlet wedge]

computers

[median heath]

Lol

[scarlet wedge]

cant remember what else

[median heath]

No.
Caterium Computer or Crysral.

[scarlet wedge]

like i said

[median heath]

Zero Screws.

[scarlet wedge]

no explore

just build

[median heath]

Self-inflicted issue.

[scarlet wedge]

seems like a noticeable effect i have on my own life in satisfactory or not

[median heath]

Until you graduate to just building them in-line with the machines 🤷‍♂️

[potent crater]

last one

[median heath]

2

You have Steel Rod so 3 is irrelevant now.

[wind spade]

pick one that is useful for you, don't ask strangers to play the game for you 😛

[median heath]

Don't listen to that stranger telling you not to listen to strangers 😉

[potent crater]

its just to see what he responds !

[wind spade]

then DM him xD

[median heath]

You assume I will check my dms 😉

[tired viper]

Hi, sorry again, I did the water/coal setup like the photo, thanks a lot ^^

But 2 of the 8 generators are not full of water, is that normal?

https://gyazo.com/c05fdec605fc3ed035758eb20b16771a

[median heath]

"Full" is irrelevant.
"Continuously running without interruption" is what matters.

[deft lichen]

if your capacity line is stable, no need to worry about anything

[valid hinge]

Can I get some tips on math doing? Im trying to calculate how to perfectly split the 120 ore I produce into the maximum amount of reinforced plates

Id like to learn how to do the math

[median heath]

Which recipes are you using?

[valid hinge]

Just basic

Started a new world

[median heath]

Do you want me to DM you?

(or can I trust no one else to step on my toes while I type this out...)

[valid hinge]

Doesnt matter to me

[median heath]

Reinforced Iron Plate @ 100% needs:
(I do this all in "per cycle" but people prefer "per minute" so I will convert to that)

• 30 Iron Plates/min
• 60 Screw/min

Iron Plates need 30/min Ingots to make 20/min, so you need 150% of Plates to meet demand.
1.5 * 30 = 45
And base Iron Ingot is 1:1 with Ore.
Meaning you need 45 Iron Ore/min to meet the Plates demand.

Screws need 10/min Rods to make 40/min, so you again need 150% of Screw to meet demand.
Rods are 1:1 with Ingots which again are 1:1 with Ore.
1.5 * 10 = 15.
So you need 15 Iron Ore/min to meet the Rods demand.

Totaling a need of 60 Ore/min to operate 1 RIP Assembler @ 100%.

How you achieve the %'s is up to you.
Personally it's very simple to just clock a Plates Constructor to 1.5, but you may wish to run x2 of them @ 75% each.

This is the configuration I use for RIPs.
Input 60 Ingots/min, output 5 RIPs/min

Both the Screw and Plates Constructors are clocked to 150% because it is simpler for me to do that 🤷‍♂️

(so for you, having 120/min, you can run 2 Assemblers @ 100%)

And since you need 1.5 per, you can just have 3 Constructors of each Plates/Screws and x2 Constructors of Rods instead of dealing with Overclocking.

[valid hinge]

Woah, this math is going above my head

So like, I dont understand how you worked from 120 ore to go forward to the plates?

How do you find the proportion of iron ore that goes to plates rather than screws

Thats what is messing with my mind

[median heath]

Don't solve forwards.

I didn't start are ore and go anywhere.

I started at RIPs and worked BACKWARDS.

[valid hinge]

How do I know how to maximize my ore then

Is it just constant adjustment?

Because ore is truly the only limiter in the game

So I want to maximize ore because of such

[median heath]

Stop trying to solve forwards.

If your goal is ore maximization that's entirely going to be on you to solve.

Because very few people do it that way.

[valid hinge]

So solve backwards and adjust until ore is maximized

Strange

[median heath]

70k iron on the map, you're never going to maximize it.

[valid hinge]

Well, in early game thats the real goal

Find out how many plates I can make with my ore

[median heath]

In what I'm assuming you're referring to as "early game" I would say the goal is "progression" not "maximization."

[valid hinge]

Well, easier to progress when your factory is at m a x i m u m c a p a c i t y

[median heath]

Not really 🤷‍♂️

[valid hinge]

How so

[median heath]

Building what you need to progress > forcing maximization for the sake of it.

[true junco]

Excell spreadsheets + satisfactory wiki + available input = profit.

at best you run a few 2nd grade math problems.

at bestest you realize you are doing linear algebra solving for the easiest algebraic equations ever devised.

tho i do not actually advise anyone do anything i do.

its a lot easier to just look at what you want to produce. look at your available belt limit. see which input or output hits that limit first, then build one set up that runs just at that.

so if mk1 60ppm belts. and the largest flow of your RIP recipe is 60 screws per min. then build a set up that matches for that 60 screws per minute.

then see how much ore that took... then duplicate the set up until you use all the ore.

so... if sev's right, thats 45ore/min. you have 120. you can duplicate 2.6666 times

[valid hinge]

So base it off of my belts rather than my ore?

[true junco]

sort of. what i am getting at is you will have to build manifolds that feed/empty the machines. and you cant build a "simple" manifold longer than it can support because it wont have material for the last machines, or it wont have space to empty the last machines (depending on if input or output). ||injected manifolds are not too hard tho, but i'm ignoring that bit for now.||

so once you figure out everything you need to build that doesnt starve an input or jam an output. then you know how much can be built in an array, and you just have to feed each line separately.

[valid hinge]

In my most recent build, I used no manifolds

I didnt want to

[true junco]

load balancing then?

[valid hinge]

I like perfect splits

Yeah

I just want too maximize my ore

Apparently thats crazy difficult

[true junco]

well. i generally aim to max consumption no matter what.

[valid hinge]

I figured out that 10 RIP uses exactly 120 ore

[true junco]

but apparently i'm crazy

[valid hinge]

Thats what Im trying to do

But it was just a guessing game

I wanted to know if there was math to solving such

[true junco]

of course there is, but you have to have a target. I usually just look at my nodes and recipes, and figure out what is the maximum output i can get. its literally just input1/consumption1, input2/consumption2, etc...

[valid hinge]

So you just do the long line of math to figure out how much ore it consumes?

[true junco]

yes. in excell

[valid hinge]

Im using a google doc lol

Is excell better

[true junco]

like right now i am building a Steel Mill in the Western Dune Forest.

i find excel is a lot easier to format and input into than Gdoc

[valid hinge]

Wanna see mine lol

[true junco]

stuff is a bit squirrly because i zoomed out. but you get the idea

[true junco]

oh man. i thought you meant the google SHEETS.

[valid hinge]

No lol

Just a straight up doc

[true junco]

so you arent even letting the program do the math. lol. its not hard math. but you are doing it hundreds of times over. move on with your life. put equations into a sheet and plug in numbers. lol

[valid hinge]

How do I make it do the math 😮

I honestly have no clue

I gotta pay for excel, hell naw

Guess Im doing google sheets

[valid hinge]

Ive got 0 clue what Im looking at

[true junco]

google sheets can do the math too. it's just a little different, not sure if it can do all the same stuff.

[valid hinge]

Could you maybe help a little lol

[true junco]

perhaps. but I don't have a hell of a lot of time. i should have went to sleep 1.5hours ago. but... this might help.

nvm. cant link

[valid hinge]

Dm?

[true junco]

wikihow is your friend.

[median heath]

If I am right, they need 60 per RIP Assembler.
Which means they can do it 2x.
Which I said.

[true junco]

i didnt say you were wrong

[median heath]

You said if I am right = 45
Which is wrong.

[true junco]

oh i thought it said 45 ore earlier

[median heath]

For one part of RIPs, yes.

60 = RIPs
45 = Rotors
48 = Frames

[true junco]

oops.

i see it.

[median heath]

After I did a long paragraph showing you the exact math step by step, you don't know how to do the math?

[true junco]

no i skimmed your math when i forgot what it said the first time i read it over an hour ago.

[valid hinge]

I want to make the spreadsheet do math for me

[median heath]

Just use Tools?

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

[valid hinge]

All tools ive searched are outdated

[median heath]

The one I just linked is not.

[true junco]

a spreadsheet is a tool? and learning how to use them will benefit outside of SF

[prisma kraken]

the online calculators help loads in designing

but spreadsheets are great to keep the numbers straight

i'm likeing a newer tool that is still quite rough that allows you to drill down from an end goal and pick the recipes you want to use to get there

sp.runesun.com

it doesn't tell you the most efficient recipe chain, but instead lets you drill down choosing

which to me is more useful

[true junco]

sounds awesome.

[prisma kraken]

yeah its ui could use some improvement

but i'm really liking it

i know pretty much what the most efficient recipe chains are

but i'm not going to do recycled plastic as part of every factory, lol

[true junco]

"efficient" is relative anyways.

[prisma kraken]

and it allows you to kinda do stuff like 'i want to use the combo of bolted plate and bolted frame with steel screw and take the excess rips and toss them into steeled frame'

and just tallies it for you with machine counts and power

[true junco]

so... exactly the kinds of things i am doing. sounds way more useful than the other tools then. i'll have to check it out

[prisma kraken]

I think you probably have to have a sense for which recipes to use already

it won't do the min/max stuff like other tools

but in drilling down, it'll add the exact number of machines for your goal, and you can then fiddle with the numbers a bit to make it what you want

[valid hinge]

Am i the only one who feels like using an online tool is cheating?

I just feel like it takes away the satisfaction of actually getting that perfect balance after doing the math

[prisma kraken]

i'd either be doing it by hand or with a spreadsheet anyway

[valid hinge]

I want to figure out how to do it with a spreadsheet

Its just hard

[prisma kraken]

i just view it as a better pen & paper

[median heath]

You're not alone, but definitely in the minority. 🤷‍♂️

[prisma kraken]

i mean this isn't grade school math class, you ARE allowed to use a calculator, lol

[valid hinge]

I do use a calculator

[prisma kraken]

cheater!

[valid hinge]

Its the spreadsheet that confuses me

But tools are like instant calculators. Theres no trial and error or solving

Its just "build this", and then you do such

[median heath]

You have to tell it what to solve.
And depending on which alts you want to use, there is much trial and error in getting it to behave 🙂

[prisma kraken]

i have a spreadsheet i created myself of both the nuclear supply chain and of the space elevator deliveries (as well as some other things like the pull down of the 'pure' recipes)

i've done the calculations and just don't want to look it all up again, lol

[valid hinge]

ig so

Maybe ill give it a go

[prisma kraken]

i mean, play however you want

but spending lots of time relooking things up and doing the same calculations over again, unfun for me

[oblique notch]

I did that math in 9th grade. That was 25 years ago. I'll stick with the tools

But also, perfect ratios are a lie because we can clock 😁 so I use the tools so I can get a quick response of the numbers of component parts I need cause... yeah. 25 years ago. Math like that doesn't stick around if you don't use it all the time

[median heath]

👴

[oblique notch]

<- curmudgeon

[median heath]

Those of us who know what that word means should get an award.

[vapid gorge]

I mean there’s infinite ways to build a system to get raw numbers.

And if you use satis calc it gives you awful and awkward plans.

And satis tools just gives you the base numbers you have to sort and plan yourself

[brisk rover]

Out of curiosity, do i'm play Satisfactory the "right way" by doing excel ||google tables, i poor lol|| now when i'm have this amount of resources in total which i'm collect? (end of tier 6).

I'm think overcomplicating the game 😂
*if this still an a game.

Also i'm come to conclusion this is impossible to progress anywhere if i'm won't use any external tools.

P.S. this just 5% of entire table which i made. Like an sick documenting every part of made stuff in the world by me.

[vapid gorge]

you can progress just fine without externals. Just takes longer for bigger more complex things

something like satisfactory tools isn't useful because it does a project fast - it's great because you can make small changes in recipes or inputs to see the whole effect w/o doing the whole damn thing over again

[lusty steeple]

Can someone explain why this VIP circuit doesn't work? :| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT6z6jdZ1lM

[cedar mica]

Thats mods, not base game.

[median heath]

Yeah.

1. Modded.
2. In your effort to click on literally everything, I saw no place where you actually built a VIP.

[cedar mica]

I'm guessing the screen thing is the VIP.

[lusty steeple]

Modded with efficiency checker, nothing that affects how things work

the thing in the top is the vip?

[cedar mica]

Since we dont have the code for the mod, we cant say for sure it does nothing to change things.

[lusty steeple]

or have I messed that up too?

[cedar mica]

I'm guessing what you are trying to do, is to use the "byproduct" water first?

[lusty steeple]

Yes

[cedar mica]

Simple way, feed that into dedicated machines.

[lusty steeple]

Yeah but I want to try using VIP

[cedar mica]

The loop, is buggy at best, clogs the system at worst.

We dont have dedicated priority, so anything you do, will not 100% work all the time.

[lusty steeple]

alright, guess ill rebuild it to look just like the VIP example

[median heath]

VIP loop is not buggy at all and works perfectly if built properly and not modded.

[cedar mica]

I know the loop is buggy, not sure what VIP adds.

[lusty steeple]

the issue is not caused by a mod atleast since i placed the checkers after the issue occurred

[median heath]

Using a VIP junction to prioritize recycled water over fresh has no issues if built correctly is my point.

[cedar mica]

Is it one of those "gravity" priority systems?

Even if that works, its still far simpler to send the excess water to dedicated machines.

[lusty steeple]

excess water to a big coal factory you mean?

much messier imo

[median heath]

I find building VIPs "far simpler" 🤷‍♂️

[cedar mica]

3 alu machines feeding 1 alu machine or whatever the ration was.

[tired viper]

Hi hi

Is there a way/webapge to "plan" what to do? I know about satisfactory calculator and production planner, but i mean something like..."I've 3 Iron Nodes Pure quality, and I want to go from there to that (rotors, for example)

[cedar mica]

If it needs to "be built correct", its not simpler, then running a pipe from 1 group of machines to another.

[tired viper]

Or any personal suggestion

[median heath]

Tools.

[median heath]

Opinion.

[lusty steeple]

yeah i thought to do a vip you just had to have fresh input above the rest

[median heath]

It is that simple.

[lusty steeple]

yeah thought thats what i showed in the vid 😬

[median heath]

Your vid was a) dark as fuck and b) very distracting because it involved "let me click on literally everything in existence"

Well-lit picture would have been better imo 🤷‍♂️

[lusty steeple]

let me check my history, should have one here

[median heath]

Where is the junction?

[cedar mica]

Both are the same height on wall...

[lusty steeple]

oh I see whats missing then

[median heath]

This example is structured the way it is for a very specific reason.

[cedar mica]

So its the gravity priority system. Not sure where VIP comes from.

[median heath]

Variable Input Priority?

Literally what VIP stands for.

[lusty steeple]

VIP stands for very important person, nothing else 😤

not sure how to build this tbh

[median heath]

The bottom pipe's input can be variable and it will always have priority.

[median heath]

You have 2 picture examples and you're not sure?

[lusty steeple]

please don't make fun of my intelligence

guess this works for the top pipe

[cedar mica]

The sideways U, probably works as well. As long as the pipes are above each other.

[river tusk]

of course in my opinion thiere is no wrong way,just trying to find your own way can sometimes be just as important if not more so

[oblique notch]

green is your prioritized liquid. Purple is your secondary liquid. the blue are pumps and the red is the junction. Put all junctiosn for the machiens after on the orange.

but i totally would put that entire thing at the base of your structure, so you dont have to pump liquid up the wall twice

[lusty steeple]

wonder if this will work

not feeling very confident, not sure what the purpose of the pumps in the reference is for

maybe i need to add 1 more pump

but feel the refineries act like pumps?

actually nvm

I'm gonna rebuild this in a completely different section

Something like this is probably better

need to place 2 pumps at same height as the other pumps for the fresh water though I believe

think that might be the missing link

This seems better

@median heath thoughts?

[oblique hollow]

only one way to find out

turn it on

[lusty steeple]

I wouldn't dare

[oblique hollow]

you gotta

Theres no safeguards here

[median heath]

Turn it on.
See what happens.

[oblique notch]

why not? if it fails you turn it off and flush the pipes and drain the outputs - put a sink for the solid, flush the output for the fluids - and try again

[lusty steeple]

hehe was joking since i had to leave for dinner but setting up the pipes all the way to the extractors would take another 20 min

will do when i get home though

[tired viper]

People., a qestion

I'm feeding the coal generator 15 coals per minute

And it says it consume 15 coals per minute

But it's eating the coal more faster than it says

Why is that?

[oblique notch]

are you overclocked? or is the inventory not full?

[tired viper]

Not overclocked

What inventory?

[oblique hollow]

then its likely not eating it faszer than you think

[wind spade]

how do you know that it's eating more?

[oblique notch]

open the interaction, you will see a stack of coal growing

[oblique hollow]

generators can store 100 coal

[oblique notch]

once that stack fills, it will stop accepting more than the 15 a min until full, then you it will only pull 15/min

[tired viper]

Because if I feed it 15 minute and consume 15 minute and it is getting at 0 and shutting down...

[wind spade]

how are you feeding it 15/min exactly?

[tired viper]

I filled them at 100

Now they0re at...+-70

[wind spade]

so it's been two minutes 😄

[tired viper]

?

[lusty steeple]

how are you feeding it 15 coal/min?

[wind spade]

yeah that

[lusty steeple]

mk1 split into 2 or?

[tired viper]

yes

[wind spade]

how much does the miner make?

and how many gens are you feeding?

[tired viper]

8

[oblique hollow]

quick guess: 8 generators, mk 1 belts only

?

[tired viper]

No

Gen 2 before the first splitter

[oblique hollow]

only the first?

[deft lichen]

you didn't answer how much is the miner producing

[wind spade]

how much does the miner make?

[tired viper]

Well...yeah

Is not the miner, is the tractor thingy

[oblique hollow]

did you like. split in half and then split each belt in half again?

[tired viper]

the truck station, with mk2

[oblique hollow]

alr enough text, send image please

[deft lichen]

the truck station doesn't make the coal
how much does the miner supplying the generator setup make, regardless of trucks being used?
and are you using part of that coal to feed the trucks?

[tired viper]

https://gyazo.com/9e071685aeae15dd2f8e6f9da94dc952

[tired viper]

Enough coal by a lot, yes I'm suing part for refueling, is that wrong? >_>

[deft lichen]

the belt between storage and splitter is mk1

[deft lichen]

if you are, you cannot supply 8 generators unless you're making 120 PLUS what the vehicle is consuming

[tired viper]

https://gyazo.com/fffb712d13702e59e7abd10cc022edf0

It's says Mk2

[deft lichen]

this segment at least is mk1

[wind spade]

(also you can paste images here directly, don't need to upload them anywhere)

[lusty steeple]

seems like you're splitting many times

[tired viper]

I'm not uploading, is just gyazo

[wind spade]

well you can just printscreen, but w/e 🤷‍♂️

[tired viper]

You where right! A little segment escaped me! It was Mk1 the final curve ^^

[lusty steeple]

gyazo automatically uploads then copies the link to the clipboard

[wind spade]

and printscreen does the same but without uploading

[tired viper]

It printscreens all my screens tho

[wind spade]

press alt+printscreen then

[deft lichen]

alt printscreen

[wind spade]

that screens just active application

[tired viper]

Oooh, thanks for the toip ^^

[deft lichen]

that's one issue solved, but you still won't be able to supply 8 generators with less than 120 coal, since the vehicle is using some for fuel

[tired viper]

I don't understand that

But the truck is sending like...12 stacks?

[deft lichen]

8 generators * 15 coal/min = 120 coal/min
if you're splitting the coal and feeding the truck with it, it consumes, say, ~20 coal/min, so you actually only get 100/min

your demand exceeds supply and eventually the generators will begin starving again

the truck station tells you how much the truck is using

[tired viper]

I'm gonna check that

[deft lichen]

it's only piled up in storage because of that mk1 belt causing the storage to get filled at 100/min and emptied at 60/min

[tired viper]

195 per minute?

https://gyazo.com/9119b69d011fbcfa5e7a940989438f37

[deft lichen]

all this time you didn't tell us how much the miners are mining per minute

the vehicle is using up 6 coal per minute as you can see on the left

[tired viper]

Ok

But I don't have the miners here, I'm using the truck I said :(

[deft lichen]

it doesn't matter where they are, just how much are they producing

[oblique notch]

doesnt matter. the miners are the source - its where ore is "created" in game for lack of a better term and entered into the system. It is the ultimate source. If they cant keep up with consumers that are "destroying" that ore then pieces will starve

[tired viper]

I'll go check

But I think it's 180?

[oblique notch]

if so do you have at least a mk3 belt coming out if it? because otherwise it cant support that throughput

the capacity of the line transfering the coal is not large enough

[tired viper]

I'm gonna check, wait >_>

I started playing this week, some concepts are still a bit confusing

[deft lichen]

the important thing is that everything centers around throughput = how much happens PER MINUTE

[tired viper]

Yes

three mk1 on normal purity coals, each one at 60 x minute

[deft lichen]

alright, in that case it's fine you're feeding the truck

[deft lichen]

source: 180/min
truck consumption: -6/min
coal transported between truck stations: 174/min
coal exiting truck station to storage: -120/min (mk2 belt limit)
unused coal backing up in truck station: 54/min
coal exiting storage to generators: -120/min
generator consumption: -120/min

[tired viper]

Thanks! ^^

It does make sense it seems : P

I've 6 impure irons without use , the 6 next to each other. Is worth do something on them, or better find normal/pure?

[deft lichen]

depends on location

impure nodes are still worth tapping if they're nearby I'd say

they're not inherently bad, you just end up using more power for the more miners

[median heath]

I did an entire outpost off the impures in the GF that produced hundreds per minute of things.
They are very worth.

[primal flicker]

Premise:
Trucks/tractors are inefficient because that fuel could be making things instead.
React?

[median heath]

How honest can my reaction be?

[primal flicker]

Honest as you like.

[median heath]

That's a shit premise because trains consume more fuel than trucks could ever hope to.

[primal flicker]

More fuel per item per minute transported?

[median heath]

More fuel period.
By any metric.

[zinc crater]

Coal is an infinite resource with power draw capped by the miner.
Trains have a variable power draw. Which is immediately more power than the miners providing coal, in all aspects.

Sorry, was meant to ping Beardo.

[median heath]

We did the math on it and a truck route needs to have over 20 vehicles to even come close to the fuel consumption of a train.

[primal flicker]

LOL wow, nice to know

Belt everything everywhere. Got it. 😂

[median heath]

Legit nothing beats belts.
But if you choose to use vehicular logistics because you don't want to use belts, each of the 3 options has a spot where it shines and a spot where it is shit.

[tired viper]

If a machien needs 45 and I feed 60...is that a problem?

[median heath]

For the machine? No.

[primal flicker]

Step 1: Build a mapwide sushi manifold network.
Step 2: Crash the game.

[primal flicker]

This, I have paid at least some attention to when discussed by others.

I still haven't transported an item by vehicle.

Are Mk5 belts less framerate killing than lower belts? Or do they behave nonlinearly with trying to render the item shaders at high speed?

[lusty steeple]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rys0xK63PjA VIP with pipes still not working, anyone see anything wrong? :|

[primal flicker]

(Asking all this as I contemplate maxing out the dune desert for oscillators and HMF)

[tired viper]

Is there a way to have more items?

I mean, a bigger bag

[median heath]

Keep playing the game, you get inventory unlocks.

Also, use the MAM, because there are several inventory expansions in there as well.

[sand epoch]

Or if you want a really big bag.. scim yourself one.

[modest chasm]

super idol

[oblique hollow]

Afaik its a pretty equal point, they all have roughly the same effect

[oblique notch]

not an expert here by any means but that was the impression i got as well

due to the fact that its just 1 complex technical shader, it really isnt any noticeable difference between 60/min and 780/min - not in terms of rendering costs at least.

[primal flicker]

OK, I was specifically thinking about, say one Mk5 vs 6 Mk2's carrying the same load. But it sounds like the Mk5 saves frames because it's only one belt and one shader being rendered instead of 6 belts and 6 shaders.

[oblique notch]

Pretty much. It's super cheap in all aspects though... not really a place I'd bother to spend much time on optimizing if I needed to

[median heath]

I have numbers for starter oil setups including machine count, but how you build it is entirely up to you 🤷‍♂️

300 Oil

5 Rubber Refineries @ 100%
5 Plastic Refineries @ 100%

Byproduct HOR routed to
4 Coke Refineries @ 93.75%
Feeds 18 Coal Gens with no waste.

[keen finch]

hi im using 3 water extractors for 8 coal generators set up like in a yt tutorial and still some generators r missing water

also tried using pumps

[median heath]

Many things

[vapid yarrow]

guessing the ones without water are the last ones?

[keen finch]

yes

[median heath]

!wikisearch Petroleum_Coke

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Petroleum_Coke

[vapid yarrow]

if the pipes are coming from below and are full..put a pump just before the one that is not getting water or put a fluid storage at a higher lvl then the gens

[keen finch]

they r all on the same level but i put pumps on all of them anyways

[vapid yarrow]

you can try to let them all saturate to full

[median heath]

How many Extractors do you have connected to 1 pipe?

[keen finch]

also tried turning off the ones that r not filling let them fill up and the water extractors but they lose water over time

[vapid yarrow]

let the pipes fill up aswell

[keen finch]

i did

[median heath]

How many Extractors do you have connected to 1 pipe?

[keen finch]

i will just link the setup cuz its hard to explain it xD

[median heath]

Just take a screenshot and post it here.

[keen finch]

i have it set up the same

oop

[median heath]

That's a screenshot from the video...

That does not help me.

[vapid yarrow]

id guess he has the exact same setup

[keen finch]

i have this setup the EXACT same way

[median heath]

Looking at what someone else built doesn't help me see the issue with what YOU built.

Because that screenshot tells me all pipes are full and the setup is working.

[vapid yarrow]

do they get some water or no water?

if they get no water then check where the empty pipe is and try to reconnect that one

faulty pipe connections happen

and if u have the same setup then removbe the pumps

dont need them

[keen finch]

the two ones on the left are always full and the one to the right is always empty

[vapid yarrow]

then its a faulty pipe connection

reconnect empty pipes

or just the first empty one

should fix the issue then

[keen finch]

i meant water extractors

[vapid yarrow]

reconnect the pipes coming from the extractor then

see if that helps

[keen finch]

it didnt help idk what the issue is

maybe i will try other setup

[vapid yarrow]

is the extractor getting power ? xd

[keen finch]

yeah

i overclocked the one on the right and it helped

but it should work fine without it

[vapid yarrow]

if you are willing to dm me the game ID il join and see if i can help

[keen finch]

can u give me 20 mins im bussy rn

[vapid yarrow]

ye sure, no worries

[keen finch]

im new to the game so i have a lot to learn

[delicate isle]

i did that vid

did you wait for evrything to fill?

it needs to atleast have 120 coal running through at all times

if your belt is full then mark 1
Is fine

[vapid yarrow]

he has a water issue

[delicate isle]

ahh

did he connect them right

he should redo them

and if he already started his circuit he needs to turn it off and let it circle through

[keen finch]

i did wait for evrything to fill up

even the extractors

[delicate isle]

did you connect the pipes right

even if you think you did maybe you shoild double check

[loud trellis]

And make sure that the extractors and generators are on the same level, otherwise the water doesn’t have enough pressure to get up to the generators.

If they’re more or less on the same level then it should be fine, but I haven’t touched pipes in a while.

[median heath]

Extractors provide 10m of lift, so doesn't have to be the exactly same level 🤷‍♂️

[remote ginkgo]

What do I chose

[median heath]

Whichever you want.

[remote ginkgo]

ok

[median heath]

That is legit the answer every time you roll one of these.

[remote ginkgo]

good to know

[prisma kraken]

FYI, cast screw is probably the best out of the 3 when on biomass

it isn't that useful later in game, but early on, it allows you to make screws with less machines = less power

the other two choices are both very good recipes too, i would pick stitched plate as a second choice because it allows you to boost RIP production early by using some of the wire you're making and just have sitting around

iron wire is also good situationally, when coupled with stitched plate, it is the best iron-only recipe chain for RIP's and can simplify making an oscillator factory sooner in the game, before you have the infrastructure to bring rubber, quickwire, copper and quartz together, simplifying that to just iron & quartz

[true junco]

I like 1 and 2. #2 is useful. #1 i found very useful. I would never personally use the caterium wire recipe. I much prefer the fused wire recipe.

[wind spade]

it's iron wire tho

[true junco]

Was it. Coffee hadnt kicked in yet. Lol

Iron wire is useful. Iron being so abundant. Lol. In that case i like all of those recipies. Lmao

[ionic jacinth]

I got the most efficient setup for my phase 4 factory using the stitched iron plate alt recipe. I'm pretty sure that I didn't need to make any screws when it was all said and done.

Yeah, I just checked my sheet - if I didn't use any alternates, I needed something like 150 machines making screws.

[oblique notch]

"most" efficient is subjective though 😉 Since there are lots of criteria. Lots of different ways to go about it depending on your personal playstyle

[oblique hollow]

i myself prefer adhered iron plate

[prisma kraken]

stitched plate is defo good for rips, but i've always found it sort of a toss-up btw adhered, bolted and stitched

i'm actually using bolted plate + bolted frame in my current build to keep the factories smaller

the combo of the two works out very nicely with steel screw, and taking the excess rips and feeding into steeled frame

[oblique hollow]

fun fact about adhered plate: while yes, its slower, you make up for that by needing a lot less machines for the other parts

[prisma kraken]

i really like adhered plate too

why i'm not using that atm is because my intro petro can't support the rubber for it and the phase 3 modular engines

(same reason i'm not using rubber concrete atm)

that problem will go away when i expand petro out, but you can only build one factory at a time 😉

[oblique hollow]

if you want 60/min reinforced plate:
16 assemblers making RIPs (adhered) + 9 constructors making iron plate + 3 refineries making rubber
or
12 assemblers making RIPs (default) + 18 constructors making iron plates + 18 constructors making screws
or
10.6666 assemblers making RIPs (stitched) + 10 constructors making iron plates + 13.3333 constructors making wire

[prisma kraken]

or 2 assemblers for coated plate

iirc, that's 90/min

[oblique hollow]

right, coated plates is another magic one

[prisma kraken]

❤️ petro rips

[oblique hollow]

5 plastic + 15 rubber + 7,5 Steel = 15 reinforced iron plates / min

if you use adhered plus steel coated

[prisma kraken]

the iron+plastic one is also pretty good

[oblique hollow]

true, but steel coated has better oil efficiency iirc

[prisma kraken]

lets look that up

[oblique hollow]

since you could in theory use the plastic HOR for coke

huh

[prisma kraken]

i was getting mixed up between the 2 recipes, steel coated is the one that is 45

[oblique hollow]

in fact you have an oil surplus

you make 10 coke/min with default plastic (if you make 5/min plastic) while you only need 7.5/min

[prisma kraken]

coated is better on oil, steel is better on iron

10+2=75 for coated, 3+2=45 for steel

[prisma kraken]

err, i did that wrong

[oblique hollow]

its 2 plastic for either 15 or 18 iron plates

steel has greater plastic to plate ratio

[prisma kraken]

10+2=15 vs 3+2=18

[oblique hollow]

ye

steel coated has ridiculously large output

compared to the small input

[prisma kraken]

assuming solid steel, steel coated is more efficient regardless

actually assuming even default steel

there is a time & place for coated though

i'm always amazed at my end game tallies of where things get get used

[oblique hollow]

thats a lot of byproduct HOR

[prisma kraken]

i'm always scrapping early game for enough plastic

because the ~100/min i get from intro petro isn't enough

but i'll bump that up to probably 550/min and like only really use plastic for steel coated plate

and it ends up being something like 200/min i really end up using

i do also use plastic smart plating too

but i don't use plastic in the super/computer chain

i'll revisit that decision a bit later in the game when i have a bit more clarity on how much plastic and copper i have lying around

foolish not to take surpluses there and not turn it into circuit boards

[median heath]

4 Iron = 18 Plates is, in fact, ridiculous. 👀

[oblique hollow]

3 iron = 8 reinforced is also ridiculous

if you use pure or any other recipe it becomes even funnier

but this isnt about iron efficiency tbh

with iron its more about speed tbh

and using a small number of stuff to get to the complex iron parts

[median heath]

Sourcing the Steel from Coke makes it basically "free" given the production line.
And means that 4 = 18

Bonkers.

[oblique hollow]

buuut if you are an efficiency fan, this plus pure iron or iron alloy is honestly a godsent

[prisma kraken]

4 iron + 4 coal, correcting you

[oblique hollow]

or 0 coal

remeber, plastic recipe makes hor

which is "free" coke

[prisma kraken]

ahh, yeah

but you probably aren't using default plastic if you're doing this sorta min/max

[oblique hollow]

so its 3 Iron plus 4 Oil = 24 Iron Plates

which is.... wild

[median heath]

?

[oblique hollow]

divide everything by 22.5

or are we talking about items per cycle?

[median heath]

18 is the cycle 😉

[prisma kraken]

yeah, its really good

[oblique hollow]

with oil it gets tricky cause coke steel has a large batch size

[prisma kraken]

a while back i was trying to figure out if using adhered plate + heavy flexible and going all-petro with hmf's was a wow like that

[median heath]

Wait.. I divided the wrong way...
2.25 Iron = 18 Plates

😭

[oblique hollow]

even more bonkers

[median heath]

I did 20/15 * 3 instead of 15/20 * 3

[oblique hollow]

thats an x8 multiplier

[prisma kraken]

tl;dr of the all petro hmf's is that it isn't as wow

[median heath]

1.8 if you use Compacted just for the laughs of bringing Coal and Sulfur in unnecessarily 😂

[prisma kraken]

you can make it work, but its i think still better to use heavy encased

[oblique hollow]

1.8 iron to 18 plates?

[median heath]

Yeah, lol

[oblique hollow]

funny x10

[prisma kraken]

and .9 CC

[median heath]

If you use Solid + Iron Alloy it's 0.8 Iron = 18 Plates

[oblique hollow]

x22.5

[median heath]

Pure being 1.08

[prisma kraken]

have either of you found a spot where iron alloy makes sense?

[oblique hollow]

huh... 3 to 50

[median heath]

Technically 1.0769230769230769...

[oblique hollow]

ah right, of course it wouldnt be that clean

[prisma kraken]

haha, numbers like that tell me that i'm barking up the wrong tree with recipes

[median heath]

Pure Iron lives to make things not precise.

[prisma kraken]

its that damn 13

well 7/13

[oblique hollow]

eeeh... anywhere where you have iron + copper and cant be bothered to do pure maybe?

[prisma kraken]

i mean like where on the map and in what situation

[oblique hollow]

soooo..... Grass Fields tbh

because Grass fields has shit

[prisma kraken]

usually the off-meta alts exist for a very specific reason

[oblique hollow]

and if you want good output over there, might aswell use that

dune desert comes in second

[prisma kraken]

i.e. there's a place on the map with x & y and no z where the recipe is perfect

[oblique hollow]

Dune. Dune is dry as heck

[prisma kraken]

not really

[median heath]

I did an entire outpost in GF, there's a lot more that can be done there than people think.

I just hate it as a starting zone.

[oblique hollow]

compared to ore locations, yes

[prisma kraken]

there's plenty of h2o in DD

[oblique hollow]

you can make that argument for anywhere on the map if your radius is big enough

[prisma kraken]

several caves, the oasis's, water geyser

and the coastline

that's more water than GF has!

[oblique hollow]

but Pre refineries, its a different topic

so anything before tier 5

[prisma kraken]

really there's a lot of water in dd if you know where to look

[oblique hollow]

theres water anywhere if you can be bothered to walk far enough

which makes it a point of perspective

[prisma kraken]

no i mean nearby

[oblique hollow]

"how far are you willing to walk for water before iron or copper alloy are a consideration"

[prisma kraken]

sure in the center of the desert plain, there isn't any water

but there's 4 oasis's and a coastline

then a few spots like the crater that can fit a water extractor

[median heath]

"are you going to use this Copper node for literally anything else" is my question when deciding tbh 🤷‍♂️

[prisma kraken]

any time i see copper + iron together that i'm not using, i think 'pasta'

[oblique hollow]

why pasta

thats such a far stretch compared to "ingots"

[prisma kraken]

copper alloy feeds pasta making very nicely

[oblique hollow]

well, why arent you making pure then

pure copper has higher ore to ingot ratio

[prisma kraken]

because it takes 20 refineries vs 12 foundries to make 1200 ingots

[oblique hollow]

aaaah there we have it

now, same argument there, but for DD

yeah, water is nearby

but im not gonna bother with that

when i can have foundries

[prisma kraken]

copper alloy is pretty great

not just for pasta, in general

[oblique hollow]

well, again, im circling back to my claims then

iron alloy and copper alloy are good in GF and DD

im not gonna pump water in when i dont have to

[prisma kraken]

there's another spot where they're pretty good

and that's in titan forest where there's 3 pure copper & 3 pure iron in proximity

hmmm, maybe that's where iron alloy is meant to be used

yeah that's it... this is 120 iron + quartz oscillators/min:

if you go the iron wire->stitched plate + cable

that works out with iron alloy to this:

just shy of what an mk2 miner can do

not the best way of making oscillators, for sure

but that's why the recipe exists

far better for default oscillator is this tally, i think:

for insulated oscillator, assuming that quartz is the limiting factor, you get this:

i'm kind of not crazy about the alt numbers in that situation, that's a lot of rubber, copper and caterium

i'd much rather burn an iron node and not get the max than to do an all refinery build

and really, 120 oscillators is enough for pretty much anything but a max turbomotor/supercomputer world

[oblique hollow]

i will never use pure iron in a large scale

in fact, i dont think i ever seriously used pure iron

only pure copper and caterium

[prisma kraken]

yeah, my original question was just if you've ever had a spot where its been practical in your factories

[oblique hollow]

in mine, no

[prisma kraken]

as i said, the off-meta alts are all there for some specific reason

i think in the game design, the thought process was sort of 'what if you want to build a <item> factory in this spot, what alts should support that?'

pretty sure that's the reason for all but one of the alt recipes

(i'm still scratching my head about the portable miner alt)

i'd have to work to prove this, but i think automated portable miner may be the worst recipe in the game for point value of ingredients vs output point value

just looking at the engine the recipe takes, that's 1520 points to sink, and the miner is 60, lol

[prisma kraken]

buy a stack of computers and start building rails?

you often run into this chicken and egg stuff in the game, and um, i just burn some tickets to buy a stack of an item to bootstrap the process

it happens with rails and again later with mk3 miners

kinda sorta with particle accelerators & nuke reactors as well

yeah, you probably want trains to do that

but getting there requires hmf's and computers

i'm actually at around the same point in the game as you progression-wise

what i did was set up a 'box factory' for circuit boards and computers

to just make me building materials

essentially its just an assembler or manufacturer that you feed from storage containers

so that you have a temporary supply of whatever part as you work on the 8 things to feed a proper factory for the component

alternative strategy i'll proffer that i've used in the past is if you have central storage built and a decent bus feeding it, you can hang some machines off the tail end of the bus before the sinks for a temporary factory

either way, you're kind of resigned to needing something a bit temporary as you make a more permanent and well designed solution

but the easy path is just buy a few stacks of computers/hmf's from the shop and start building trains 😛

[zinc crater]

Good luck, and godspeed.

[prisma kraken]

build a mess and learn from the mess you made!

[prisma kraken]

that's why you delete them!

[glass copper]

Aww welp… i unlocked compact coal. Now im thinking of using compact coal instead of normal coal for my coal generators…
Do u guyse use normal coal or compact coal ( /w compact it doubles the time a coal is consumed)

[cedar mica]

If you plan on going to Turbo Fuel, its not a bad idea to setup Compact Coal. Might not be the most efficent recipe, but it makes transition easier.

[glass copper]

Oh i just mean to use it for my coal generators 😁

[cedar mica]

Generally its better to just find more coal, as Compact Coal means more energy spent making the power. Which you dont want, early game.

But as I said, if you planning ahead and are doing Turbo Fuel, its a different story.

[glass copper]

Yea that is true, i got a place what got 3 pure coal nodes and 1 normal

Oh ye i will for sure, ultimate goal is automate everything haha

is there a way to see what all my alternate recipes are?

wich ones i got unlocked

[oblique hollow]

no

you can open the codex and then look at an item

to see if you have an alt for it.

but there is no list of all altsy you have unlocked

[glass copper]

ahh gotcha 🙂

[median heath]

I does not double the time.

It more than doubles it 🙂

If it simply doubled it the math would be cleaner and I would use it in Coal Gens 😭

[glass copper]

Yea true, thats why i was wondering if that wouldve been worth it 😄

[median heath]

Worth is subjective to the individual 🤷‍♂️

Compacted is really good for making Steel, but outside of that is it sort of just an "ok" item.

[glass copper]

Yea thats true, the rate is insane tbh

went on a adventure... came back with a small amount of hard drives

and all the materials what are inside lol

[willow oasis]

ummm i got 13200 patrol i want to make some power (im using mods) i calculated 1 refinery makes 200 fuel per minut but power uses 120 how can i make it???

[median heath]

The 4 ways Fuel is made:

Base: 40/min
Residual: 40/min
DPF: 60/min
Diluted: 100/min
None of those is 200.
Fuel Generators also use 12/min, not 120.

If you're modding for whatever reason and completely altering the numbers of the game, you need to do your own math as none of us is going to know the specifics of what you're working with.

[willow oasis]

i cant remember mods but 1 of em is mk++ i think if you are using mark 2 refinery ur prodection is X2 i and i calculated its should be perfect but they dont work

sory i have bad english

[brisk shore]

Official Modding Discord

Learn all about modding and join the community here!
<3 @median heath

[median heath]

Modding issues, which this sounds like because all of it has to do with mods, should be asked over in the modding Discord.

[willow oasis]

thnx

[median heath]

👍

[willow oasis]

ill work on it

[true junco]

Yeah. For power its starting to feel like an optional gap filler. Directly, and indirectly as a possible component of Turbofuel.

Bio < coal < compact coal < fuel < turbofuel < nuclear...

You can definitely skip compact coal and turbofuel power. Ive made both and enjoyed figuring them out and making them work, but i'll definitely admit that I am "taking the scenic route" regarding progressing thru the tiers of the game. 😆

[oblique notch]

One of those few instances I agree with sev... if you use recipe mods that add new recipes then you gotta do the math yourself. Too many different permutations for anyone to know what to do.

[glass copper]

Is there a way on https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production that the alternate recipes stay saved?
I just went down my list and i see it doesnt save them haha. if i get a new product i need to 'check' my alternate recipes again

[wind spade]

what? they are saved

[glass copper]

For me they are all gone when selected to make concrete ;/

[oblique notch]

Greeny is the developer so show him screenshots if it may be a bug

[glass copper]

oh, what a coinsidense haha

[median heath]

Yes, when you open a new tab you need to re-enable them.
That won't be changed.

[glass copper]

OMG NOW IT DOES SAVE... urg okey im gonne accept then all over againthen haha

[oblique notch]

Lol.

[glass copper]

i always only work on 1 tab

[median heath]

Oof

[glass copper]

oh wait

i think i know why. i pressed the 'delete' function'...

[oblique notch]

Hah.

[glass copper]

yes the big one xd

[wind spade]

yeah, it isn't shared between tabs, as that makes little sense. Almost never have different factories same recipe combinations 🙂

[glass copper]

Oh yea indeed, i probably missclicked the big delete function with the small product delete xd.
I just like to have it enabled all of my alternate recipes. makes it easyer in general

[wind spade]

well you can just click "all" and it enables all recipes 😛 or have one production tab with selected recipes and clone it every time you make a new one

[oblique notch]

Also, it's great but if you want to specifically use certain recipes it may not use them if it doesn't match thr criteria greeny coded it with for picking (most raw resource efficient I think?)

[glass copper]

I dont got em all unlocked yet 😄 so i cant hehe

[oblique notch]

If you've never done that part before, sure it's a great starting point, but like if you want tonuse Iron Alloy but you have that and Pure Iron, pretty sure it selects Pure unless you tinker.

[median heath]

Greeny hates Iron Alloy.

Given you have to turn off Base Iron before his tool will even consider it...

[wind spade]

I... don't?

[median heath]

THEN EXPLAIN YOUR TOOLS HATRED OF IT!!!!
😭😭😭😭

[glass copper]

any chance anyone know how big a refinery is? i dont got it... YET, but im gonne make my concrete factory already and later on get the refinerys in. so i hope anyone knows the measurements?

[wind spade]

my tools have nothing to do with my personal preferences

[true junco]

This is why these calc sites always trip me up when i mess with them. I want to set each recipe at each stage. Like when im using more than one recipe for the same product during a sequence i am planning.

[wind spade]

calculations are done based on very similar system as wiki's WP, in that, pure iron is more resource efficient than iron alloy 🤷‍♂️

[true junco]

I can make it work, but i have to piecemeal things and then work it all out after.

[wind spade]

you can separate your production into multiple tabs for that 🙂

[true junco]

To be fair. No matter how weird what im trying to do might be, i probably havent put nearly the time into the calc site necessary to figure out how to use it fully.

[deft lichen]

Still should be noted that SFTools optimize for the best weighted resources, but afaik don't take power or building count into consideration (correct me if I'm wrong)
It's not possible to ask the tool "give me the most power/building efficient setup"

[oblique notch]

unless your thinking about using mutliple recipes for the same part, you just go through and set the ones you want? But yeah... if you want like... 500 iron/min using Iron Alloy and 500 using Pure iron... yeah the calculator isnt going to do that

[wind spade]

I clarified that in second message 🙂

[deft lichen]

It's true it picks DF over DPF

[true junco]

Thats exactly what i do sometimes that the calc doesnt like. Lol

Example. I have a factory that has 2 seperate lines for modular frames. One produces as many modular frames with the steel pipes recipe as i can up to the current capacity of a particular steel mill to supply steel pipes. The other line uses all the rest of the available RIPs with the default recipe to make the rest of the MFs.

And im building another steelmill that will produce steel ingots... using compacted steel recipe up to my limit of available sulfur there, and the rest of the steel via solid steel ingots. 😆

[wild sequoia]

Good old "Box Crafting"!

[prisma kraken]

yeah, sometimes low-tech is the right-tech

[open linden]

Does anyone have spreadsheet template?

[median heath]

Microsoft Excel has many templates.

[open linden]

For factory management and production

[median heath]

Just use Tools?

[median heath]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

[true junco]

Im sure somebody does... in a round about way im sort of developing my own for my own purposes just by using excel so much for SF calcs.

[open linden]

It doesn’t really let you save to account

[median heath]

Huh?

[true junco]

None of the math, inputs or outputs for SF are particularly complex on a step by step basis. The complexity comes when you start putting all the steps together into a plan.

[sand epoch]

Just copy the browser path to use on multiple devices.. and cookies saves it too. No "accounts" needed

[median heath]

No one likes reading my sheet because these are the headers 😄

And this is the production side of things.

As you can see, I do not have "ppm" anywhere 😄

[open linden]

It’s an interesting alternative

Ppm is just for 100% efficiency, if you have lots of excess I can see listing quantity as a valid option

[median heath]

It's not about excess of an entire line.

Everything is based on cycles.

1 cycle of Scrap from 1 machine is 5-6x more than 1 Smelter needs.

[fierce cypress]

It’s just a different way of thinking about it

[median heath]

Technically it's the original way of thinking about it 😉

Given ppm wasn't added to the UI until much later.

[fierce cypress]

are you able to just disregard cycle length?

[median heath]

No? Why would you be?

Input Capacity = (OutputQty/CycleGiver)/(InputQty/CycleReceiver)

Adjustment = 1/InputCapacity

[oblique hollow]

Cycle length affects output per minute

just as much as items per cycle

More items per cycle
or
Shorter time per cycle

Bigger Output /min

[median heath]

Idk why you are explaining that to me 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

i didnt direct this at you

You know i never explain anything to you

[frosty owl]

Giggles in Omnifactory factory plans

[runic fossil]

whats the most efficient steel recipe?

[median heath]

All 3 alternates are better than base.
There is no universal "best", as they are all situational.

[runic fossil]

oh alr thanks

[oblique notch]

Define your needs for Efficient and you can decide based on that in some ways.

[wind brook]

Guys ı need 22 electromanietic conrtol rod layout there is no problem to use overclock can anyone send me a layout?

[median heath]

Like the numbers for machines and such, or are you wanting us to design your factory in-game for you?

Because if you just need the production line -- use Tools.

[wind brook]

I do in there but there is so silly numbers so

I just need the production line

[median heath]

"Silly numbers"?

[wind brook]

Like 3.03 miner

[wind spade]

that's not tools 🤔

[median heath]

That isn't Tools.

[median heath]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

[wind brook]

I always used calculator

[median heath]

Tools is better.

[wind brook]

Ok i will try it tomorrow thank u

[undone hull]

i use my "n" output on my keyboard and do it the old fashion way !

please tell me no one uses an abacus

[median heath]

Technically that isn't old-fashioned as the Nalculator was not in the game for years.

[undone hull]

if it wasn't i would use head or classic calculator too ^^

but mostly for now, the head is doing the job "almost" fine

[mystic moon]

Idk about years
Wasn't it u2?

[median heath]

I would guess U4, but wiki people would probably know better.

[deft lichen]

U3

[median heath]

Pipes and Nalculator in the same update?

U3 really was arguably the best.