math-and-meta

[karmic creek]

uhm what is CB?

[arctic willow]

Circuit Board

[lusty vine]

cirquit board

[karmic creek]

that is what most of it is for anyway

so yea, i think that would work

just gonna ship some plastic onsite

thanks

[median heath]

!wikisearch Acronyms

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Acronyms

[lusty vine]

yeah, you probably won't max out a tier 5 conveyor with plastic. At least for a while 😄

[karmic creek]

my plastic production is at 600 for now anyways so yeah. i'll be transporting using train nevertheless cuz it is convenient

[prime tiger]

3600 QW aint soo bad you can do it with 4 train cars

[karmic creek]

😄 space for the station is the limiting factor in my case

otherwise yea

elevator phase 4. now that's a grind 🙂

[prime tiger]

fr

[arctic willow]

i think i've got enough abandoned bits of other projects that i could convert my current (5.625/min) supercomputer setup into this without too much issue

[median heath]

Starting small is always advisable.

[vast jungle]

Are there any good ratios for Heavy Modular Frames if you want to go with Heavy Encased Frames and Encased Industrial Pipes? I am experimenting with numbers but the ratios for the intermediate products are all over the place...

[oblique hollow]

for normal heavy frame its sorta easy

gimme a moment

[vast jungle]

somehow all the alts are nice, but they screw up the ratios a lot ^^

[oblique hollow]

which combo do you want an analysis on?

default heavy and default beams are the easiest ones

i can modify that for encased pipe

[vast jungle]

I think if have most (all?) the alts for the production variants... went on a HD expedition last session ^^

[oblique hollow]

im just gonna throw out default first then

6 Heavy Frames / min (3 manus) needs:
30 encased beam (5 assemblers, needs 10 concrete constructors + 8 steel beam constructors)
30 modular frames (15 assemblers (needs 9 reinforced plate assemblers + 12 iron rod constructors)
600 screws ( 15 constructors)
90 steel pipes (4.5 constructors)

for more whole numbers, double it all, then you have 9 constructors for steel pipes

the other heavy frame recipes are more for truly large numbers

like... 16 Manufacturers for heavy encased

16 Heavy Encased Frame manus (45 HMF/min) need:
120 Modular Frames (20 Assemblers)
300 Encased Beams (75 Encased Pipe Assemblers)
540 Steel pipes (27 Constructors)
330 Concrete (22 constructors)

[vast jungle]

its quite insane... with just default recipes you need 3x the iron and 2.5 times the coal for the same HMF output...

(without looking into pure iron of course)

[oblique hollow]

its a funny mix

default has by far the best numbers

at a small scale

[vast jungle]

someone thought it would be funny to introduce 8 or 7 as factors in the Alt recipes...

and then there are Screws 😉

[oblique hollow]

8 is a decent factor, 7 not as much

most recipes, as sev states often, follow a 45 rule

[median heath]

45-81 rule

[vast jungle]

I think I will skip the whole HMF factory for now and think about it a few more nights... not happy with the results SF-Tools is producing.

Ratios with the default recipes are nice, but then I run into "not enough resources at building place" issue 😉

only "good" option seems to be to fill up every construction step to a sane ratio and use a smart splitter to siphen the overhead off...

[snow dove]

or just place the HMF manufacturers, see what they need, make the amount you need of one of the items, repeat till done

[vapid gorge]

There's a fun loop using recycled plastic/rubber recipes and diluted fuel where you might want to start considering shipping the oil for convenience later 🙂

[vapid gorge]

... what? I think you're picking the wrong building zone then. You can do 200 HMF per min in hte dune desert w/o importing resources or using refineries for hte iron

[karmic creek]

Yeah I know. I will have to get on with that soon. Just managed to unlock recycled recipes. My computer production plans wont come to fruition otherwise.

[vapid gorge]

That loop is a good test of your piping skills

I learned the hard way to not try vertical pipe manifolds on mine xD

[karmic creek]

😄 it's gonna be fun. My current set up uses only recycled plastic and lots of fuel. I learned the hard lesson that you always need a sink for the HOR. No matter how perfect your calculations are

[vapid gorge]

Yup, there are some recipes where you'll have multi dependency outputs but not always full use so sinks at some point along the line is really nescesary.

[fading coyote]

I wonder how long it takes for a manifold to equalize without priming

I was working on that math for fun while stuck in classes today, didnt get very far

[vapid gorge]

depends on a BUNCH of stuff.

and the bigger the manifold and larger the stack size the worse it gets

[fading coyote]

Yeah

[vapid gorge]

I have manifolds that would take hours if I didn't prime them

[fierce cypress]

idk if Greeny's old tool is still up to date, but here

https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/machine-fill

[fading coyote]

I was basically just assuming N equal machines lined up with splitters, which consume R per minute. And assuming the input is N*R no more or less

and some input stack size as well

[fierce cypress]

nope - from U2 , i'd imagine its still fairly accurate tho

[vapid gorge]

also would depend how much each machine is using per minute and how long the spin up spin down time is because they don't start up instantly once they have their material

That'd be a HELL of a calculus formula

[fading coyote]

Ah, didnt even know about spin up times

[vapid gorge]

watch a machine as it just gets enough material, it'll rev up before the 'work' bark progresses

[fading coyote]

But like for one machine it's easy to figure out when it'll start backing up just knowing its throughput and input

Yeah i know machines did that, didnt realize it was a factor

im not sure it would end up mattering in the long run

[fierce cypress]

you could probably ask greeny for the formula he used

[fading coyote]

Could just be a iterative program to solve it for him

that would be easy

[vapid gorge]

Well if machiens didn't have a spin up time it would process through material faster and thus accept more material, so it would probably increase the max time for hte manifold to be fully operational

[fading coyote]

Yeah but as soon as input rate is more than the machine's service rate then you wont have spin up and down delays

[vapid gorge]

I'm guessing. Might depend on all the other machines

[fading coyote]

and everything low down the manifold is so starved i dont think it matters if they spin up and down

[vapid gorge]

Not guaranteed that a machine won't be in a position of multiple spin ups spin downs before then though right?

[fading coyote]

Sure it could be starting up with the small fraction it's getting, then spin down, repeat

[vapid gorge]

like it might not change things? But I'm leaning towards 'maybe'. Also not sure if each machine and recipe doesn't have it's own spin up spin down

[fading coyote]

i think its prob negligible

[fierce cypress]

i think if you're using smart splitters with priority to machine and overflow down the manifold it wouldnt matter, but with normal splitters it would depend on the amount required to get a spin up

[vapid gorge]

And then there's my manifold that makes wire, cable, iron rods, iron plates from the one feed line xD

[fierce cypress]

sushi?

[vapid gorge]

all from iron ingots but it becomes sushi after

[fading coyote]

yeah thats gets way more complicated

[fierce cypress]

ah makes sense

[vapid gorge]

they'll pry my beacon recipe from my cold dead hands.

[fading coyote]

definitely 1000% easier to just quickly simulate it if you have something like different machines on the manifold output

[vapid gorge]

and then I'll zombie mod them back in

[fierce cypress]

your beacon factory came at a really poor time didn't it

[vapid gorge]

ehhhh yeah? But they aren't gone yet and it'll be quicker to learn how to make a basic recipe mod than redo my factory

unless the recipe changes are extremely convenient I'd have to tear most of that section out

[fierce cypress]

one can hope

[vapid gorge]

Completely unrealistic tbh. I have 4 pure iron nodes running at near max to a series of the most compact and overclocked set of constructors. I can't make any changes.

[oblique hollow]

Oh you tried to math out manifold fill time?

Hahahahhaha, welcome. to the club of lost hope

i tried that too

this was my attempt back then

it had like.... a solid 20% error rate or whatever

@vapid gorge behold, i guess

this is by all means an iterative formula

because you simply cannot apply it to the entire manifold at once

it would be a sum of this formula for each machine

[vapid gorge]

And this is with a 20% error in actual play?

this is actually worse than my 3rd year maths assignments

and this is just a step for calculating a manifold

ok on it's own it's not worse.Just... whyyyyyyyy xD

[frosty owl]

Latest news: balancers can need less math than manifolds

[vapid gorge]

I would argue a 1:1 balancer has at least the same maths 😛

[frosty owl]

I can't comment on that, I never do that sort of balancing
Shocked Pikachu face?

[vapid gorge]

ok I'll bite, how can a balancer need less math

[frosty owl]

I was just joking over what you just said. The math to know the fill-time is easier as it's just belt travel-time

[vapid gorge]

oooohh right ok yah got me, fill time for balancers need less maths it's true xD

[frosty owl]

Groundbraking revelations...

[arctic willow]

balancer maths can get real ugly - my last problem was "take a 720, four 480s and a 240 and split them into ten 270s and a 180"

was fun

[fierce cypress]

or just use a belt compressor with mk3 outputs - easy

[mystic tusk]

I'm building with truck stations as a storage input. Do both conveyor lines empty equally fast or does it prefer one (like the storage containers do)?

[glacial hemlock]

Never use truck station. Oh, if you mean for storage, there is a double slot storage at tier 4.

Input always take both belts at full speed until full. Afterwards it is a bit funky

[mystic tusk]

I'm making a storage building and some of the items will be brought there by Truck/Tractor because they're more versatile than trains and less expensive than drones

but I've found a solution over in the Q&H forum

[median heath]

Never?

[wary tulip]

I use trucks all the time.

[lusty vine]

same

though I prefer tractors tbh

[median heath]

Explorer still the best trucking vehicle.

[lusty vine]

Because it's so agile and grippy?

[median heath]

• Speedy, yes.

After they redo truck physics I will retest.

[lusty vine]

yea, truck physics is terrible. Not only is it unable to climb slightest slopes, but also it gets blocked by bushes and small trees all the time 😕

[deft lichen]

the new exponent is 1.321928, what NPP originally used

[median heath]

NPP?

[deft lichen]

nuclear power plants

[median heath]

Ah.

[deft lichen]

they had a different exponent so that 250% clock had a 200% rate and not 202% something

the numbers match with what you posted

[median heath]

2.499999999999999 😭

[deft lichen]

we don't really know how many digits of precision the exponent has

[median heath]

1 😉

[deft lichen]

I can try to get it more accurately assuming 200% clock is 250% power

[median heath]

Meh. What you have is fine imo 🤷‍♂️

[fading coyote]

Holy cow

[upbeat tide]

I love the absurd scale of this game. Currently working on a pure copper facility that is 53x10 foundations in size. Thats 424x10 meters or a crazier 33,920 square meters of floor space. Just insane to think of it that way

[gloomy palm]

if water is infinite and is in so much of the map, why are there water resource wells?

[signal nimbus]

Because water extraction plants are massive pains to build sometimes, and extractors are easy.

[gloomy palm]

but is there some gameplay balancing reason why they are needed

or it's just a convenience thing?

[deft lichen]

They look cool I guess

[gloomy palm]

🤣🤣🤣

[deft lichen]

Pumping from wells is less power efficient than using water extractors do they're practically useless

[gloomy palm]

man

anyone wanna start a petition to remove water resource wells then?

[deft lichen]

I mean, I don't need them removed, as I said they still look cool

😛

[gloomy palm]

HMmmMmMmMMm

understanadbl

[median heath]

Honestly if they buffed the output of Resource Wells given their MW cost I would use them for water.
Right now it isn't worth the effort.

[deft lichen]

They'd need to place a bit more satellite nodes or better lower the power demand when placed on a water well

[median heath]

?

I'd legit just be fine with more output.

Like this one. Perfect pairing, but the MW per Water isn't worth it when there is another water source right next to it.

Another great example.

Like the point (in my opinion) of using the Wells would be that it saves space at the cost of higher MW.
But their output doesn't really make it worth at this time.

[gloomy palm]

ya

i was stuck wondering as well what the advantage was

[median heath]

Trim their output up just a tad and I'm sold.

Although...

They did just redo overclocking...
So I may need to run the comparison again.

[gloomy palm]

ohhh

[still brook]

So many slugs though

[median heath]

Slugs are infinite.

[noble timber]

@steep rivet

[urban roost]

Hey all,

Do you guys know how to calculate the output rate of a recipe that takes multiple inputs?

I was trying to work out the output rate X / min of an assembler. Let's say the recipe is Reinforced Iron Plate (5 Reinf. Iron Plate / (30 Iron Plate + 60 Screw)) which takes Cast Screws (50 Screw / 2.5 Iron Ingot) and Iron Plates (20 Iron Plate / 30 Iron Ingot).

So if I supply the cast screws with A iron ingots, and the iron plates with B iron ingots, I get some the output X for the assembler.

[median heath]

Do you guys know how to calculate the output rate of a recipe that takes multiple inputs?

Yes, because I started by asking "How much output do I want?"
And then solved backwards from there to determine the inputs needed to achieve said result.

Stop solving forwards.

[urban roost]

Is it something like?
X = 5 / (30 * (A * 50 / 2.5) + 60 * (B * 20 / 30) )

[urban roost]

I am looking for a generalized forward solving equations.

[median heath]

Why?

Solving backwards is better.

[fierce cypress]

Work out how many screws A will make and how many plates B will make then work out which one is the limiting factor of the assembler, it cannot produce past the limiting input

[urban roost]

So? I am trying to solve a math problem.

[median heath]

Confused. But you do you.

@wind spade probably has it because it would be what his tool uses when you hit "Maximize"

[upbeat tide]

To the conversation about water wells their purpose is to give you another way to build water-using factories in the drier areas of the map

At least thats how I see it

[fierce cypress]

And sev had two examples with water right next to them

Water is everywhere on the map

[median heath]

I'm reevaluating now that overlocking is different.
And I'm moreso seeing it from the "takes more MW but costs far less space" perspective.

Given the pure ones are like 6 OC'd Extractors worth in a much smaller area.

[upbeat tide]

Yea they are convenient. I use two water wells to power my aluminum setup for example

[median heath]

The first pick I linked it an amazing spot to use them.
Pure Quartz out the ass with that Well being there.

[upbeat tide]

That said I do have like 400 water pumps but majority are all sea-side placed

Its still weird going out far enough and seeing the world rendered map just stop

[quartz sapphire]

how to remove flickering when applying fundmaents?

[median heath]

No overlapping = no z fighting = no flickering.

[raw forge]

So I’m making a temporary Silica set up on a 240 line, I can split it to 5 machines with 45 per line, what’s the best way to load balance that,

[median heath]

Manifold.

[raw forge]

Yea but like specifically

I always end up with 15 left over

[fierce cypress]

Do a 1:5 load balancer

@raw forge

[raw forge]

Thank you so much lol

[median heath]

This is overly complex.
Top right splitter doesn't need to exist.

[median heath]

Delete the top right splitter and just route the 1 line on the right back to the origin line.

[fierce cypress]

That results in a bottlenecked version

It does work but can break in some cases

[signal nimbus]

Really depends on how much you're trying to push through here.

If the in is a full belt, you need this version.

[barren elm]

Top right does need to exist if you want a balanced output

Tho I am on team manifold

[fierce cypress]

Sev’s version

[signal nimbus]

*full, max tier belt for your tech

[fierce cypress]

But this can break if the ‘6’ is above your belt throughput capabilities

[median heath]

6 will be less than the 5 so...

[signal nimbus]

...no?

[fierce cypress]

No it won’t

[median heath]

Wait.
Reading error.

My bad.

[fierce cypress]

How is 5 + x less than 5

Unless x is 0 but that would mean the 5 is 0 too

[median heath]

I did admit my error 🙃

But also this is why you just manifold 😉

[fierce cypress]

Or use the other balancer

[barren elm]

I mean, sev isn't entirely wrong, it may be a "6" here but that extra speed is functionally never going to matter

You're not gonna get out more than you put in obviously, even with a recycle belt

[fierce cypress]

But it won’t be a proper split

[barren elm]

Depends how the game engine handles splitter/merger orders

I'd hope it takes them in sequence, so it should be a proper split

[fierce cypress]

Which negates the point of having a balancer in the first place

It won’t split properly

[barren elm]

I feel like you could try this in about 10 seconds

[fierce cypress]

If I was in game

[median heath]

Anything that negates the point of building a balancer is something I am in favor of 😉

[vapid gorge]

if you don't put paint it's far less visible. Other than that - mods.

[fading coyote]

You could always do a 1 to N split by just making a 2 or 3 way tree and feedbacks the leftovers

[fading coyote]

is that actually true?

[fierce cypress]

thats how most odd splits are achieved yes, an even split with x amount of outputs as feedbacks

[fading coyote]

Maybe it equalizes to even split all the input eventually but sounds like there will always be a small fraction stuck in the feedback hm?

Probably approaches 0 as time goes on

[fierce cypress]

it should give you an even split after a few seconds of it running (depending on size ofc)

[fading coyote]

yea im guessing its negligible

[fading coyote]

Damn manifold time to equalize is pretty damn complicated

[fierce cypress]

check that out ^^ @fading coyote

[fading coyote]

Yea i saw

[fierce cypress]

wait that was the reply to you

[fading coyote]

yea

comp[licated recursive formula 🤢

Even limiting many variables, its tough

[wind spade]

Linear programming, simplex method, matrix with ~150x250 size. Have fun

[fading coyote]

Some input has to be fixed

[wind spade]

That's why I use simulation instead of formulas

[fading coyote]

Yeah definitely seems simpler

I think im actually gettin somewhere tho

[covert mica]

How many turbo motors can you make with all the resources in the world

[muted goblet]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=hpy0SwbipfKXbQ9y4pn2

apparently like 85/min

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=eaKU7D6Q9lY8XdpswYMv

with all alts 236/min

[oblique hollow]

and then you basically have nothing left for other stuff

[muted goblet]

right

2k refineries

omg lmao

[glacial hemlock]

If you farm coupons, go for Assembly Director system instead. More points

[covert mica]

No just woundering

[bitter tree]

Pulling my hair out, because my math isn't adding up. Built, tore down, and rebuilt and tore down again an entire system for turbo fuel .. Fluid levels aren't right, heavy oil residue gets backed up and system stops.

[bitter tree]

What is the max turbo fuel one can make with 1200 oil/min? 1950 oil/min?

[maiden steeple]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/

you can set custom amounts of items in the "resources" tab

[lusty vine]

By any chance, are your refineries fed from below?

[bitter tree]

I got it working now.

[unique tree]

how can i divide an input of 145 items per/m into two conveyers, one 45 and the other 100?

[maiden steeple]

I mean dividing in 3 and merfing two back together gives 48 1/3 and 96 2/3

which is pretty close

the best way might to be to add 5 items/min back onto the belt, and then have 100/min and 50/min

[unique tree]

yeah ill probably do that, thats much easier

[arctic willow]

the "easiest" and most exact way would be to split off a 60, split that down to a 30 and two 15s and merge it back together again from there

[snow dove]

how exactly are you gonna get a 60/85 split?

[arctic willow]

mk1 belt

[snow dove]

ah

[median heath]

You can do this with a single splitter.

[arctic willow]

"no balancers, manifolds only, final destination"

[fading coyote]

Just have thousands of items to prime your manifolds

[little ginkgo]

Does anyone know what formula generators are using for water consumption in the new experimental build? It's not linear like coal consumption is.

[vapid gorge]

It should be the same rate as the fuel unless it’s bugged

[little ginkgo]

You're right, I just made a math error

[zenith halo]

Hey im fairly new to satisfactory and i think i made a math error somewhere but not sure where here is my problem: i have a mk2 miner mining 120 per min split into 4 smelter soing 30 per min then into 4 constructors making plate at 30 per min and the belts are mk3 everything is running smoothly and belt is constantly moving but then i have another miner mk2 doing 120 per split into 4 smelters again then split into 8 constructors making rods at 15 per min but my belt is stuttering because its backed up whats the issue?

[glossy aspen]

i was just thinking about it but aren't storage containers the best way on transport? If you chain a bunch of them together with a max conveyer between them all, wouldn't it be faster than any transportation method due to the incoming materials instantly teleporting out of the container

I think I explained wrong but kinda like this. The only limiting factor is the conveyer belts in-between each container. It also covers a larger distance effectively while also being more cost effective.

[tawdry sail]

No

[fierce cypress]

also uses more space and isn't less cost effective

[tawdry sail]

780 will be the max transfer rate

[primal crypt]

yup

[glossy aspen]

m yeah as trains could load a boat load more at any time

[fierce cypress]

*with mk1 belts

[glossy aspen]

Eh atleast it would be considerable early game

[fading coyote]

I assume he means more like the 'propagation delay' of an item would be less

[glossy aspen]

as the 120 per minute is only going over a fraction of the distance as it normally would; so its like a worse version of better conveyer belts, right?

[fierce cypress]

no - its still 120/min

[glossy aspen]

yeah your right

but at least you aren't spending as many resources, especially early game where you don't generally have as much infostructure producing belt materials.

[fierce cypress]

eh seems like a pointless workaround for me

[fading coyote]

Ehhhhhhhh pretty sure its cheaper and easier to just use belts right away

[glossy aspen]

but yeah I was just wondering about it and thought I should bring it up to people that actually have intelligence, unlike me.

[fierce cypress]

for mk1s its definitely cheaper to just use a mk1 belt

[fading coyote]

You just need an iron plate factory and u have infinity belts

[glossy aspen]

capped at 60 per minute though

[fading coyote]

Sure

mk2 is considerably more expensive but you could probably just build a bigger reinforced plate factory in the time it takes to lay out a billion containers

[fierce cypress]

build multiple, bam infinite belts infinite throughput

[fading coyote]

oh yeah, parallel belts also

[glossy aspen]

I was considering BAM though I thought this would be the wrong channel to bring up mods

Though if we do consider mods, some semi-vanilla mods, such as the ' Smart! ' mod could be used in conjunction with instant link mods to chain a bunch of them together quickly.

[fierce cypress]

or you could just build a belt is it really that hard?

[fading coyote]

yea idk about modding for the sake of some weird early game workaround

[tawdry sail]

Why you hate belts

they are cool

and pretty

[glossy aspen]

Starting a new world and I'm too poor

[fierce cypress]

ramp up prod

[fading coyote]

yea lol

[glossy aspen]

I'm too poor

[fading coyote]

just build biggier

[fierce cypress]

so get more

thats the whole point

[glossy aspen]

I needa wait 50 minutes to even have a considerable amount of concrete

[tawdry sail]

just build a mega factory

[fading coyote]

conk crete for wat?

also p sure theres a ton of conk crete nodes

[glossy aspen]

sky factory

[fading coyote]

🫡

[fierce cypress]

so find more nodes/OC and build more constructors

[tawdry sail]

sky factory == lazy factory

[fading coyote]

could have opened ur idea that ur doing a wacky build in the first palce

[glossy aspen]

Who needs should fancy neon sign bases with 50 blenders where I would get 300 on a huge open space using the same amount of concrete

[fading coyote]

go travel around and build a conkcrete factory on every node you can find if ur gonna be laying out hundreds of foundation

[fierce cypress]

the whole point of the early game is to multitask different things, staring at a production line and saying go faster wont do anything

let it produce while you expand

[glossy aspen]

for right now I'm just gonna build over my base then just conveyer them all up, each iron node manufacturing either rotors or R plates

yeah but rn I just got my power infostructure online so everything is spooling up after 10 minutes

I can bearly run my sink

regardless you're correct; I'll get on it right now, thanks for the advice

[fading coyote]

What are you sinking if u have no resources o_O

[glossy aspen]

Extra stuff because the one thing that has kept me sane is efficiency; also because I like nice things like factory carts

I may be a hypocrite but who can blame me, the factory cart one of the key parts of the game

but yeah I'll just disconnect it for a bit so I get more ingots

also so I can buy asphalt foundations so I'm not wasting plates for belts

[fading coyote]

fauir enuf

[fallow ruin]

so... can I send a item sorter image in here its just a top down in the calculator interactive map

I Just can't seam, to find a place to talk about it and show images

[fading coyote]

go for it

how does an item sorter work ?

[fallow ruin]

ok

my item sorter Frist lets items into a loop

the idea is that they will get filtered out of this loop with programable splitters and smart splitters

[fading coyote]

mm, I havent used smart splitters yet

[fallow ruin]

first the programable splitter takes the item if its not on any of its lists then it gets sent back into a loop.

after that I use the dumer smart splitters to sort items into three groups or two .

[fallow ruin]

they are just splitters with three filters

for each output

Now, here's whare my item sorter gets complicated and go's beyond others

some of the sorted items are raw resources and sorting those for storage is kinda dumb and annoying

[fading coyote]

unless ur doing some resource aggregation, warehousing intermediate items seems kinda wasteful eh?

even then, you'd prob just wanna pump everything to a factory instead of storing intermediate items

[fallow ruin]

so I process the raw materials into their better forms on the site, with a storage buffer for large quantity's and for packaged fuel I unpackage it and turn it into fuel then all of that to power. These better items are put back into the Frist loop and sorted

the only packaged fuel that doesn't get turned into power is gas for the jetpack and what not

lastly I send all of the items to the unfinished part the bulk storage so about 4 containers per item, a little over kill but I wanted to have them cycle around a conveyer to look cool.

the last part only about 20% done is if the bulk storage gets full they all get sent via overfill to the large ticket makers, they are the most annoying part because I need to fit 70 where they won't be seen..

rn it looks like this

[fading coyote]

Jesus

What is this drawing from

[fallow ruin]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/

it can read saves

and display them

I think I am just insane anyway

my whole base

I did most of this before zoop lol

the item sorter is that pink thing in the conner

if you were wondering the starter area is no more 😅

[vapid gorge]

You’re going to run into max through put issues fast

[fallow ruin]

no

theres none with my testing

[vapid gorge]

Then it’s not being sent into a loop

[fallow ruin]

it is it's just buffered loop

it has at least 6 large storage containers on it

and It seams induvial items no matter ware they go all go at the max speed of the mk4 belts I use and take about 10-15 seconds to go though the system even though theres about 30km of belts used, I thought it though it should be the fastest it can possibly be

it may even be the fastest item sorter in the game

the idea is simple like how trains scan "bar codes" (they have a name) on the cars but its constantly moving

the items should not get stopped or slowed down by any

even if I had 10-20 factories attached to it

the belt is the most issue I can see as it can go faster than the max speed of the belt at full cap....

[frosty owl]

Generally speaking, creating closed loops of items can be very bad when dealing with mixed belts.
I'm not sure how precisely this applies to your case, but there is no usecase for belt-loops other than providing some (small) form of buffering for the items, something one can achieve much more effectively using actual storage containers.

The only tiny advantage I see in using a belt-loop over storages is that the belt preserves the order of items, making it viable for "special" sushi things

[fallow ruin]

my closed loop system is different then what it normally is

it can quadruple speeds

because of the way it's build

[frosty owl]

I'm listening reading...

[fallow ruin]

it uses large storage containers and is vertical for the least belt travel

it also splits the item sorter into 4 layers so that I'm not just feeding one slow system but four separate systems

this is what makes it expandable by just adding anther layer. It also makes it fast usually it takes less than 3 seconds for an item to travel though the loop

[frosty owl]

The bottleneck is created by the input belts rather than the number of "sorting systems" here.
You need one belt per system to achieve full throughput, splitting one belt to 4 systems still yeld a 1-belt maximum throughput

[fallow ruin]

yeah that's why I have 4 or so input belts but will prob just use two for the input so I only have one container to dump the items into

and almost 98% of the item sorter uses tier 4 belts the fastest belts I can have right now

but the bottleneck is also subdued by each of the for inputs almost imediately getting split into 18 with less than a tiny amount actuality getting stopped by any item

I could have a item sorter that directly feeds form my factory but then I couldn't sort my items on hand

[frosty owl]

I'm not sure what you mean. No matter where a belt is coming from, just add splitters and a sink and you can sort the items on it, even if the belt comes directly from a factory

[fallow ruin]

I guess you could say my item sorter is a little silly for what it's trying to do maybe I'm wrong I haven't gotten it finished yet and would love to see it working. It's a funny overcomplicated thing that I'm doing because I don't know how to deal with power for my next factory assembly.

sadly it's too far done for me to just destroy
it

[frosty owl]

The experience from it will last longer than the project itself 😉

[fallow ruin]

probably all I have to do is connect the belts for the outputs and the ticket machines and its done! that should take about 10-20 hours or more but it's not a hard task just a boring one

my silly thing is that each output has a buffer bin a four big container bulk storage then a overflow that go's to the ticket machines for almost all of the 70 outputs witch each have their own ticket matchine, and a overflow to the overflow... a little overthought

[tidal tide]

What would be the best choice here? To me they all seem meh

Not sure about what potential does cast crew have to make iron factories more efficient tho

[frosty owl]

(1) is if you ever need coal but only have biomass aviable
(2) makes Ingots->Rods->Screws into Ingots->Screws
(3) is the most quartz-efficient recipe for Silica (there's an abundance of Limestone anyway) though it requires more power and machines than the standard counterpart

[obtuse fractal]

Is 32GB ram overkill?

[lilac gazelle]

For Satisfactory.. never not enough.

[glacial hemlock]

Let me ask you: is 64 GB RAM overkill?

[barren elm]

as a 64gb ram enjoyer

yes

I can have at least 3 chrome tabs open AND satisfactory

[deft lichen]

I can have 10 chrome tabs AND Satisfactory on whopping 8 GB of RAM and it runs fine

[boreal geyser]

wich of the iron recipies are the most effecient?

[lusty vine]

Foundry recipe gives the most ingots per iron ore

[boreal geyser]

thanks

[lusty vine]

It’s also power efficient and doesn’t take much space, unlike the refinery one

[deft lichen]

Efficiency depends. Pure iron makes the most ingots per ore, but takes up a lot of space and power. Iron alloy is pretty compact, power-saving, but requires mixing copper.

I really like iron alloy but ultimately each alt has its use

[boreal geyser]

im making as much iron as i can from the desert and im trying to figure out if theres as much copper as thers iron

im bad at maths lol

[deft lichen]

you get more iron per iron ore from iron alloy, but you need enough copper

using both recipes at once is also a possibility

[glacial hemlock]

Yes, one Satisfactory plus 3 tabs of chrome: one tab for youtube guide, one for calculator, one for interactive map.

[bronze barn]

Youtube guide?

[deft lichen]

2 tabs for wiki, 1 tab SCIM, 7 tabs for SFTools 😛

[glacial hemlock]

There is always less copper than iron. But copper will not be in shortage until you enter tier7

[glacial hemlock]

Normal: open 1 tab of sftools with 7 subtabs
chad: open 7 tabs of sftools

[deft lichen]

switching SFTools tabs resets the manual arrangement, so that's why I have multiple chrome tabs

[median heath]

Satisfactory, Discord, 1 Edge tab.

[bronze barn]

edge

[median heath]

that's the joke

[vapid gorge]

But the foundry one chews up copper that is more rare and is less often close to iron

You also don’t often need tons more iron as it’s everywhere. If you don’t have enough iron where you’re putting a factory it’s probably not a great location

[wind spade]

something something planned feature xD

[little ginkgo]

Does any one have a formula quick reference sheet? The wiki page on overclocking doesn't have a formula to determine the required clock speed for a given output.

[flint osprey]

Apologies if I'm missing something crucial, but the in hand recipe encyclopedia does that for you

In game*

[little ginkgo]

😮

Theres a few things I've missed apparently. I'm not new to the game, but to the discord. I've basically been operating in a bubble and only just learned you can hold ctrl to stop foundations from snapping 😐

[little ginkgo]

no wait, now I'm confused. Give me one moment.

[flint osprey]

What I'd really like... is the clock speed required for a given input

[little ginkgo]

I'm trying to balance this power plant. It has a bunch of weird ratios, don't worry about that.

I've almost built all of it in a spreadsheet. All of the cells are set to adjust according to each other, except the water output and the clock speeds, because they are all so interdependant.

Because as I decrease the clock speed of the water extractors, their power demand will decrease, which means the coal generators need to output less power, and their water demand will decrease, and it that will loop until it balances.

[oblique hollow]

whats that stuff on the bottom

are those 3 smelters?

oh wait... miners

pipe wise, theres nothing really to balance with the 6 extractors and 16 generators

those are all exactly right for each other

only thing left are the 2 (or 1.5) extractors for the 4 coal gens

[visual wave]

i have been trying to find a disadvantage to this recipe but i can't seem to find it? the only thing i can thing of is load balancing but using a manifold will do the trick so should i use this or nope?

[snow dove]

use it

[little ginkgo]

Is it more efficient to run 6 extractors at 100% then the other 2 at 75%, or run all 8 at 93.75%? Plus, that would have the 4 extra coal generators operating with a surplus of energy, which I wanted to optimise out with underclocking.

[oblique hollow]

its easier to run the 6 at 100% for the 16 generators, then you just adjust one of the other 2 extractors to 50%
you can only use so much coal anyway

the 16 generators need 240 coal/min in total

the 6 extractors need 80 MW, which is easily handled by 1.0666 generators

sooo the actual question: why supply the water extractors with extra, seperate power?

just kickstart it and the generators basically supply themself

[versed violet]

The only disadvantage is

1. Its screws (people hate them for some reason)
2. You can get a tonload of screws using steel screws.

[median heath]

There isn't a disadvantage to it.
I just gets outclassed the moment you get into T3-4 because of both steel alts.

[noble timber]

People hate screws because you need so many

[median heath]

QW is just Screw 2.0

[frosty owl]

Aluminum Scraps is just Screw 3.0|| and Wire is Screw 0.69||

[glacial hemlock]

Nice.

[visual wave]

im in tier 5 lol

[median heath]

Then definitely use one of the steel options.

[visual wave]

the thing is, i need the steel because im going to make a heavy modular frame factory

[median heath]

You say this like there is an extreme shortage of steel on the map?

[visual wave]

well

[maiden steeple]

This is my current plan for my mid game base, is there anything else I should automate? (Tiers 5 and 6) https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=n1HxysvUJfSv4CcJ0CBY

[median heath]

I'd bump the Plastic/Rubber up because it's incredibly easy to do and gives you more power than it costs, but otherwise decent numbers for being in the tutorial.

[maiden steeple]

That’s the plan anyway, I just wanted to put it on with some smaller numbers. I’m going to work on implementing this once I get fuel gens unlocked.

[median heath]

300 Oil

5 Rubber Refineries @ 100%
5 Plastic Refineries @ 100%

Byproduct HOR routed to
4 Coke Refineries @ 93.75%
Feeds 18 Coal Gens with no waste.

Costs ~600 MW to run but produces 1350 MW.

[maiden steeple]

I’ll do slightly less, since oil is very far from our base. We’re making 240/min right now

Also is the coke better than fuel gens?

[median heath]

No.

But it's free power 🤷‍♂️

[maiden steeple]

Yeah, that’s what I thought. We’re using the coke for tickets rn, and by the time we make this base, we’ll have fuel gens unlocked, so probably going to skip that step.

[glossy aspen]

I got some more now

[fading coyote]

thas a lot

[glossy aspen]

just finished the factory a bit ago

almost got it to 120 per minute

[fading coyote]

damn

[maiden steeple]

Just realized I forgot quickwire here. Would it also be a good idea to automate ai limiters?

[deft lichen]

At least some, they're used for smart splitters

[cedar ether]

So here's a question: Is it better to centralize or localize production ? Centralized would be to have all of the resources brought to one point and have the production in a single place. Localized would be to have the resource collection and production in their own areas where the resources are.

[shy coral]

I typically have a couple of factories spread around the world, you bring your resources via bus/train/drone/truck to wherever you need them

Like I have a factory for making all my encased uranium in one area, then my nuke factory is somewhere else entirely.

Same with like my quickwire and steel factories

[vapid gorge]

Either or.

More central: lots more base planning involved planning

Many hubs: lots more logistics planning

And it’s a sliding scale with how many hubs and how high you build something. I can’t tell you what you’d like better

[cedar ether]

My previous 2 saves, I tried centralizing everything. This new save I'm trying to separate things more. I was mostly wondering.

[versed violet]

centralized = more lag. depending on base scale you may want to spread out.
Remember that distributed is still capped by your cpu speed.

[fierce ruin]

does this counts as balanced?

[median heath]

That is a balancer, yes.

[fierce ruin]

oke

1 to 5

[median heath]

It's not 1 to 5 though

[fierce ruin]

uff

https://tenor.com/view/fade-away-oooooooooooo-aga-emoji-crumble-gif-20008708

[median heath]

This is what you have:

Also just manifold it.

[barren elm]

Neither manifold nor balancer

[barren elm]

It's an abomination

[fierce ruin]

is this now a 1 to 5 b loader?

[median heath]

Dude just manifold it..

[deft lichen]

that's even less balanced than before

[barren elm]

There's an easy trick to getting odd numbers to work for balancers

[fierce ruin]

oke, imma stick to a manifold then

[median heath]

👍

[deft lichen]

is it merging the rest back to the input?

[barren elm]

In factorio it's called a recycle belt, where you just build a 1:6 balancer (very easy, just 2 sets of splitters), then take the 6th output, and merge it back into the input

[median heath]

That's what the second image is.

[fierce ruin]

yep

[barren elm]

Oh yeah, kinda hard to tell at a glance

[median heath]

Also the obligatory "Fuck Factorio" I am required by creed to say.

[median heath]

Stick with the manifold though.

[fierce ruin]

yep

[barren elm]

Unless you're making nuclear (and even then if you don't care about radiation), manifold performs everything

Tho balancers are pretty

[fading coyote]

centralizing production doesnt make sense to me

At least not in a lot of cases

[barren elm]

I think it's complicated

The optimal early stages of almost every resource involve water, which usually means loading raw resources onto logistics and taking them somewhere else

At that point it's really easy to just move them over water and... complete the rest of your production chain there

The downside is lag, which may not matter depending on how big you actually intend to build

And the counterpoint to this is that while things like pure iron are optimal, you may also just not care and elect to smelt iron on the spot because most builds aren't ever going to need optimal iron production

[median heath]

???

[barren elm]

What

Not everywhere has local water

[median heath]

Before that.

Your assertion that "optimal early stages of almost every resource involve water"

????????

[barren elm]

Yes?

Pure iron > iron, wet concrete > concrete

[median heath]

Who has declared these as optimal?

And by what metric?

[barren elm]

Because water is effectively infinite

[median heath]

So?

[barren elm]

And trading water for more resources is obviously a good trade

[median heath]

Good, yes.
Optimal, debatable.

[icy charm]

Aren't the pure generally the most ingots per ore?

[median heath]

Not for Iron, actually.

[barren elm]

Take wet concrete. It uses less limestone, less buildings, less power per unit, it's optimal by any metric.

It's even faster

[median heath]

Iron Alloy has a higher conversion than Pure Iron.

If you're going "per ore" them Rubber Concrete beats Wet Concrete.

Wet Concrete is not optimal by "any" metric.

[barren elm]

I think you're just arguing for the sake of it on this specific hill

[median heath]

You are declaring something to be optimal.

There's a reason we specifically say "best is subjective".

And yes, I'm going to poke holes in universal statements when they are not true.

[mortal egret]

Really the "best" alternatives to use highly depends on the context of where the recipe's going to be used
On good example would be alternates like rubber concrete or coated cable would accel more in oil heavy production lines

[swift robin]

and sometimes it depends entirely on how lazy you are

like using bolted plates because faster and less machines

[mortal egret]

Yeah, also Pure Aluminum, despite it being less efficient with aluminum scrap to aluminum ingots, it allows you to cut Silica out of the production line

[fierce cypress]

Alts are alternate they change the recipe, you pick the recipe that works best in your scenario.

[median heath]

Sole exceptions:
HOR
Encased Pipe

[lusty vine]

Turbofuel!

[mortal egret]

Typically I stand by two factors to determine which alternate would be best
-Heaviest material, and

• Resource availability (This includes specific quantities of fluids, resource nodes, resources from other production lines and power available)

[median heath]

[fierce cypress]

by heaviest do you mean quantity or rarity?

[lusty vine]

Sulfur is overrated

[swift robin]

if you arent minmaxing all that sulfur for some huge build by all means have fun with the turbo

[median heath]

Turbofuel apparently remains overrated despite multiple explanations about how its current primary use is just making bullets...

[fierce cypress]

turbofuel? nah we use diluted fuel

[median heath]

☝️

[swift robin]

EPA: remove the sulfur! Ficsit: Add more!!

[mortal egret]

I mean both resources used in high quantities, or common resources
And when possible, I try to cut resources out of a production chain that are either used in small quantities, or are rarer
One example, let's so you have a production chain making Reinforced Iron plates and Cable, what I'd typically do is switch to iron wire and stitched iron plates, which allows me to cut copper and screws out of the chain

Now one situation that I did kinda strangely was Cooling Systems, which for solids, you obviously need Heat Sinks and Rubber for
For the Heat Sinks, I decided to use the Alclad Aluminum casing alternate for a higher efficiency, but when it came to making heat sinks, I used the Heat Exchanger alternate to cut out copper sheets

[maiden steeple]

I have 270 iron ore/min spread around a few random belts, I want to balance it into 240 and 30, but I only have mk3 belts unlocked. How would I do this if it's possible?

[median heath]

Merge to 1 mk3 and use a single splitter.

[maiden steeple]

the mk3 capacity is only 240 though, right?

[median heath]

Did you read the description?

[maiden steeple]

oh, so it does work on 1 belt

...thanks

[median heath]

Reading is an important part of the game 👍

[modern cosmos]

do you guys prefer manifolds or a balanced splitter?

[median heath]

Manifolds.

[modern cosmos]

you're biased as we were in the argument earlier

[median heath]

The fuck?

[fierce cypress]

opinion rejected

[modern cosmos]

yes

[median heath]

You're asking what people prefer.
Every answer you get is going to be a biased answer because the nature of the question is "what is your preference.

I gave my preference, I'm sure other people will too.

[vapid gorge]

Yeah we don’t care if you prefer balancers, just stop being wrong about manifolds.

[modern cosmos]

ok lets get the other votes

[median heath]

Just because my preference and anyone else who answers with "manifold" doesn't align with yours doesn't mean it isn't a valid answer to your question that you asked the entire channel.

[cinder silo]

54 manufacturer manifold, 0 yellow lights here either.

[modern cosmos]

I'm saying manifolds arent reliable not that they're unballanced

[vapid gorge]

And you’re wrong

[median heath]

Manifolds are 100% reliable.

[fierce cypress]

^

[modern cosmos]

you have an excess of inputs

[cinder silo]

Reliable enough to keep 100 nukes fuelled with a just in time build.

[vapid gorge]

So stop spouting lies

[cinder silo]

The input was calculated, I merely let it stack before hitting the on switch so no I don't

[modern cosmos]

ok but manifolds still take longer to start and reliability in my experience is still less reliable

[cinder silo]

🤦‍♂️

[median heath]

1. Skip the time to start entirely by prefeeding (as I have said)
2. 100% reliable (as multiple people have said)

[fierce cypress]

well unlucky you - the only person in the world who has unreliable manifolds

[vapid gorge]

Sure - if you don’t prefill the take more start up time

If they are less reliable you are building bad manifolds

[stark bronze]

Mystery solved
If a factory fluctuates on its own and it's by design then manifolds are actually less reliable but it boils down to making your production fluctuate in the first place which is another topic

The argument between stable production and fluctuating production over distribution methods isn't going anywhere

[vapid gorge]

Like if you were asking for people to help solve poorly made manifolds I’d be there to help but all you’re doing is repeating someone you’re very wrong about with many experienced players with many thousands of hours of game time.

If you love balancers make balancers.
But don’t spread misinformation

[abstract hatch]

are you convinced yet?

[modern cosmos]

nope

[fierce cypress]

what proof do you need?

[cinder silo]

🤦‍♂️

[abstract hatch]

you do you man, it's your save. but they work the same

whatever you say, they work the same

if you use power switches and let them fill, you can start it and it will be 100% stable and reliable, both load balancer and manifold.

[modern cosmos]

none, I'm stuborn

I will not budge

[abstract hatch]

really? didn't notice

[fierce cypress]

you don't say

[median heath]

"You can tell me the truth all you want, I will close my eyes while reading it so I don't have to accept it."

[fierce cypress]

the least you can do is stop spreading false information

[modern cosmos]

but its fun

[abstract hatch]

more like dumb tho, tbh

[vapid gorge]

Ah, so you’re like a like flat earther

[modern cosmos]

no no

the earth is a donut

dumb dumb smh

[abstract hatch]

is the earth not flat?

[fierce cypress]

no its an island floating the void with some suspicious oceans that disappear if you go too far out on them

[abstract hatch]

i've always wondered

thank you, you learn something every day

[modern cosmos]

I dont

[abstract hatch]

also, i dont think manifold is balanced, change my mind

changing sides now, try me

[modern cosmos]

works for me

[fierce ruin]

1/0,0001 = 10000

[modern cosmos]

yes

[abstract hatch]

Kalkulator

[fierce cypress]

do you really want to be associated with this guy

[abstract hatch]

nope, i regret changing sides

[fierce ruin]

Just had To pull out that windows xp pc.

[abstract hatch]

i was joking and he went "works for me"

xD

[modern cosmos]

that's correct

[fierce ruin]

At least no ads here.

[fierce ruin]

Then why can’t 1/0 be infinite ♾?

[modern cosmos]

no matter how many times you add 0 to 0 you'll never get 1

[median heath]

Because you cannot take something and divide it into no parts.

[modern cosmos]

you can't divide by zero

you'll make a blackhole

[fierce ruin]

Because if you do like 1/10^-n you will end up with like 10^n

[stark bronze]

or just wait for precalc

[modern cosmos]

I said it wrong

[fierce ruin]

The Cookie Monster will be sad cuz of no cakes. At least according to Siri

[modern cosmos]

no matter how many times you add 0 to 0 it will never be 1

[abstract hatch]

wrong, 0+0 = 00

[modern cosmos]

ofc

[fierce ruin]

Isn’t this what we call limit values?

[modern cosmos]

Why didn't I think of that

[abstract hatch]

and now its 2 zeros, and if you remove the "zeros" you get 2

[modern cosmos]

genius

honestly

[fierce ruin]

When you do this f(x)=3x^2 then f’(x)=6x

[abstract hatch]

so 0+0= 00 = 2 zeros = 2 ~~zeros ~~
ant then 2/1 = 1

so you can turn 0 into 1

[abstract hatch]

thank you very much, i find it genius to use manifold instead of load balancers

[stark bronze]

that was a hell of a setup

[fierce ruin]

Yeah but think of it like this. If you have 1 dollar bill and will divide the bill where an unknown amount pay 1 cent you can type 1/0.01 and it makes sense since it gives you 100. 100 cent is one dollar

[modern cosmos]

k

[abstract hatch]

yes

[modern cosmos]

100 cent is a dollar

[fierce ruin]

I said 100

[modern cosmos]

ok

[abstract hatch]

1-10 load balancer and 1-10 manifold is reliable and efficient

[fierce ruin]

Let’s say it’s 0.01 cent.
1/0.0001 then it will be 10000

[modern cosmos]

load ballancer is more reliable

and splitters and mergers have a 100% efficiency

[abstract hatch]

it cant be 0.01 cent

[stark bronze]

whats your point here
you can define a cent as small as you like
it cant be 0

[fierce ruin]

But if each person will give 0 dollars you need to ask a bedrillion and still gets 0

[modern cosmos]

so they got same amount of efficiency other then initial cost which if it is an issue then you probably shouldn't be building factories that much

[abstract hatch]

and if you keep going even more smaller in cent, it will give you the amount of 1 dollar

[fierce ruin]

Let’s say 0.0001 Bitcoin than (0.1 mBTC or 100 satoshi )

[abstract hatch]

because 0.01 dollar * 100 is 1 dollar, if 0.01 cent *10000 is 1 dollar still

[abstract hatch]

yea, keep going

[fierce ruin]

Or if you do 10/0.1 it gives 100 (100 to pay a bill of 10 giving 0.1 each

[fierce ruin]

But I’d say there’s a limit there. Need to ask Jody maybe to look into this

[abstract hatch]

you have a bill of 10

and you want to pay with 0.1?

10/0.1 = 100 yes

[fierce ruin]

I want to beg a unknown people to give me 0.1 each. Until it’s paid. That’s basically what you try to solve. If you have 100 people to ask you can do 10/100=0.1.

[abstract hatch]

but it will give you 100 coins valuing 0.1, not 100 dollars

and 0.1* 100 = 10

[stark bronze]

is this just an intricate plan to purchase a copy of satisfactory

disguised as a math discussion

[fierce ruin]

No it’s real math discussion

[abstract hatch]

it will always be the same

if you ask 100 people to give you 1 cent

it will be 10 dollars

so that's why 10/0.1 = 100

[fierce ruin]

Yup

[abstract hatch]

and 100*0.1 = 10

[fierce ruin]

Yup

[abstract hatch]

didnt quite get your point tho, its the same

[fierce ruin]

It just depend what your unknown values are

[stark bronze]

There's a limit and the limit is 0
You said you know about the concept of precalc limit? Then this shouldn't be a problem

[fierce ruin]

Open GeoGebra and type f(x)=1/x. Should show a funny result

[stark bronze]

whats the question again

[abstract hatch]

give's you a straight line

doesnt matter the number, it's always a straight line

[stark bronze]

wait what geogebra are you using

[abstract hatch]

am i supposed to type exactly "f(x)=1/x" ?

i replaced the second "x" with a number

[stark bronze]

yeah exactly that
not sure what point they are making though

[abstract hatch]

wtf

why does it make a like on both axis and then is does a little curve to switch the axis

[fierce ruin]

Sorry. I meant x^-1

[abstract hatch]

diagonal line

[stark bronze]

im all for this channel being used to discuss trivial math things like inverse functions and asymptotes when theres no satisactory calculations going on

[abstract hatch]

wait what

[stark bronze]

its the same thing

[abstract hatch]

it should not be a diagonal line

should be straight

at least i think so, it should a constant line right?

im not the best math solver, but am i missing something?

[fierce ruin]

This was what I expected

[stark bronze]

and its the right one

[median heath]

So much Satisfactory going on here 🙂

[fierce ruin]

It’s like 5 am here I am

I’m sleepy as heck. Gotta go off b4 I sleep.

[stark bronze]

its this or someone saying manifolds dont work

[versed violet]

There is no way to make splitter prioritize one output (say Coal), then other output (coal again) and send all unknown & overflow items via last output, is there?
Building a sorting&storage, want to fill my container first, then send overflow to processing, but also let other items pass through

[median heath]

If you do Coal, Coal, Overflow it will split Coal 50/50 between the 2 and then send everything else down the 3 output.

[versed violet]

I need coal, coal overflow, other items + overflow

[median heath]

The only way to do 1, then the other, then the other is to chain 2 splitters.

First has priority, second splits priority overflow and all other items pass through.

[versed violet]

guess who have not reserved enough space for it.

[median heath]

[versed violet]

oh, stupid/bright idea. What about this setup? Coal + overflow at first splitter, then at next splitter sort another resource to next box, but divert coal with free output? Would this work?
Ofc not sorting coal, but alien remains. because I want couple at hand, but also want to grind them into protein when box is full.

[median heath]

but divert coal with free output? Would this work?

This would be using 2 splitters, yes 🙂

[versed violet]

already totally hating myself for this sorting hall design

[stark bronze]

Why would you keep whole cut aliens though
Minced aliens can do most of the work

I mean it sure is cool to have a full stack of spider legs

[versed violet]

the same reason I keep a box of leaves/wood/petals/mycelia and all 3 edibles.
because its a resource which I may someday need and they cant be automatically harvested.

[neon wraith]

For Nuclear did anything Change?

[median heath]

Change since when?

[neon wraith]

update 7.

[median heath]

No.

Well, water cost did.

[neon wraith]

nuclear is now showing water @ 240 a min not 300

[median heath]

Yeah they adjusted that so that when you OC to 2.5 it costs 600.

That was the only shift.

[neon wraith]

ok cool, I was worried a wee bit

[median heath]

Nothing regarding making rods changed (which was what I thought you meant).

[neon wraith]

I would have been pretty angry if rods changed lol

[median heath]

They will eventually.

[fading coyote]

math

[maiden steeple]

and meta

[boreal flume]

I have a question, since I cant understand the wiki page (I might be an idiot). The alternate recipe "Heavy Oil Residue" - does that gives double the amount of Heavy Oil Residue compared to "Polymer Resin"? Been following a guide on youtube to increase my power output - but im running low on Heavy Residue Oil (I dont have the alternate recipe yet)

[maiden steeple]

Polymer resin is focused on resin output, while heavy oil residue is focused on residue output. I believe it flips the numbers of resin and residue from the resin recipe

[boreal flume]

Ahh, so that will be doubled - it makes sense

[maiden steeple]

I don’t remember the exact ratios, but I thought it was 13/2

[versed violet]

Heavy oil residue alt recipe gives 40 purple from 30 black and some resin leftover.
the basic polymer resin recipe instead gives 20 purple from 60 black (so 4 times less) but a pile of resin.
So the same output in different proportions.
It is generally advised to use heavy oil residue one, as that can be converted into fuel then into rubber/plastic and gives more output than converting resin into plastic/rubber.
In general, resin is considered waste product. you can make some cloth out of it or rubber, but otherwise, junk

[boreal flume]

Yeah thats my problem, I got too much to sink (if I may put it that way)

Things on my fuel generator project should change dramatically when I get the recipe

[flint osprey]

I'm building a hmf factory and want to trickle out some component parts to storage while I'm at it... I've not got the bottle for sushi or the space for proper load balancing, so I'm relying on good old manifold madness.

I'm worried that if any of me excess lines are less tha 60 p/m (likely) then I will starve the chain.

Am I right to believe that if I end a splitter chain with an overflow SM that I can prevent it from bleeding out in such a way?

Derp, suddenly occurs than I can just add extra constructors and not merge them into the production line.

Still, would be interesting to find out anyway

[median heath]

"Not got the bottle for sushi"??

[flint osprey]

Oh, British vernacular. Bottle = courage

Walk before you run eh

[median heath]

Pick your target and solve backwards.
Select how many HMFs you want to make and solve the amounts needed for that line.

Then pick the amounts of excess items you want and just add those to the totals you found while solving backwards.

Supply correct amount to system. No need to worry about any lines bleeding anywhere because everything is accounted for.

[glossy aspen]

Whats the best storage method?

I was thinking about train stations but they have a pretty high clearance.

[median heath]

Containers?

Not sure what you mean by "method"

[glossy aspen]

m

like either using drone or train stations, stacking containers a certain way

As I'm running out of space quite quickly; though I do have a few AI splitters on every belt to make sure nothing overflows.

[maiden steeple]

Just let stuff back up, imo

[median heath]

Are you meaning drone vs. train for bringing things to storage?

[maiden steeple]

If you aren’t using it, there’s no reason to store it

[glossy aspen]

I was giving an example of method

[median heath]

Of bringing things?
Or of storing things?

[glossy aspen]

I'm using them but I am not using them haft enough

storing

[median heath]

Because you shouldn't store things in trains or drones.

[glossy aspen]

so I should just use containers

[median heath]

Industrial Storage Containers, yes.

[maiden steeple]

Then you aren’t using all of it, so let it back up

[median heath]

Highly recommend against letting things back up.

[maiden steeple]

Why?

[median heath]

Yellow lights are not efficient.

[fierce cypress]

Or just let an ISC fill up and overflow sink the rest?

[glossy aspen]

but shouldn't I just redirect the overflow directly into a sink / sink train lineup

I think a nice sink train that collects overflow or a drone fleet would be neat; though I'd haft to deal with the whole balancing battery thing

i think a good way to do that would be to make too many batteries so that the overflow will go into the drone port directly so the incoming drones can feed them into their own stations

[maiden steeple]

Yes. Yes you should. I’m still working on my first planned out base, so... I forgot some of the details

[glossy aspen]

is 10 modular frames a minute enough for early game?

really like my lil starter base

[fading coyote]

clean

[glossy aspen]

whats the more efficient way to move shit tons of items along the map without trains

early game

[median heath]

Define early game?

[glossy aspen]

steel

[median heath]

Prologue, ok.

You have truck stations available to you.

[glossy aspen]

yeah

but I'm planning on moving it a long distance

[median heath]

So?

[glossy aspen]

so without packaged fuel I don't think it would be possible

across the map

like desert to grasslands kinda distance

[median heath]

Why are you needing to do a total cross-map route in T3-4?

[glossy aspen]

Preparing for pre oil

setting up heavy industrial

beams

also because I don't have any non used coal noads in 1000 meters and I would rather manufacture near the coal node than run a belt to get to my normal base

oh which is running outa space fast

theres more on the left too

[median heath]

Given your chosen building method I have no advice to offer you.

The challenges you're going to have to solve are pretty unique to what you're doing.

[glossy aspen]

I plan to build a multi floor building though I thought that atleast early game I should just build the essentials where i can so I have enough

[glossy aspen]

what are AI limiters used for besides super computers

And splitters

[wind spade]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/codex/items/ai-limiter

[glossy aspen]

thanks

also is there a way to choose how much of something splits off from a conveyer belt

[oblique hollow]

nope

thats why you can adjust machine rates

so you can preemtively set rates

rather than splitting off during transport

[glossy aspen]

K

is this a good amount of points tier 3 and 4?

[maiden steeple]

You can with smart splitters if you need 60, 120, 270, or some other even belt capacity number

Otherwise you’ll need to work out the ratios and build your line of splitters and mergers

[tropic hawk]

Using belt throughput as a limiter is a fickle thing, due to throughput limitation bugs.

[maiden steeple]

What would you reccomended instead for a 120/150 split?

I haven’t actually built the setup yet, so it’s still fluid

Also does that apply to running a belt at max capacity as well?

Since my factory happens to use one full mk3 belt of iron, and I don’t have mk4 belts unlocked

@tropic hawk ?

[median heath]

Single normal splitter.

[maiden steeple]

So why does that work, when doing it with a smart splitter doesn’t?

[median heath]

They both work.

Up to you one which method you choose.

[maiden steeple]

I was asking Nemo, since he said he didn’t recommend it bc belt limitation bugs

[median heath]

U7 bugs aside, belt limitations have to do with belt-to-belt connections, not splitters.
So idk what they mean 🤷‍♂️

[regal bobcat]

im sure it's been asked before but is it at all effective to transport water by train? I'm considering a very rail heavy build around relatively small, single purpose facilities

im doing satisfactory plus, so im thinking like
one facility for crushing and sorting ore, one for pumping out ingots, one for each simple component, one for each next tier of components, etc

just curious if rail is viable for moving water, i hate pipelines and i like the idea of a dedicated pumping station(s) where water is extracted and then shipped to where it's needed, rather than constraining my facilities that require water to wherever water is located

[median heath]

Effective involves "does the correct amount get where needed"

Train is fine.
Pipeline is also fine, but you hate.

So I'd honestly say go for the pumping stations. It sounds like a cool idea!

[regal bobcat]

🤔

I've already identified a good spot for my first foundry

but I'll consider alternatives in the future

it's a big map after all

[median heath]

What's the confusion?

[regal bobcat]

whoops wrong server, i was talking to friends about this in a different server and didn't realize where i was lol

[fading coyote]

why not multiple foundry 🙂

[regal bobcat]

oh there'll be probably a solid couple dozen tbh

[median heath]

👀 WHAT ARE THESE "FRIENDS" YOU SPEAK OF??

[regal bobcat]

oof

[maiden steeple]

They’re the people you play with online. You only play singleplayer?

[median heath]

You would legit have to pay me to play multiplayer in this game.

[maiden steeple]

It’s fun. You can have someone else doing mam while you build the factory. If you have the right friend.

[median heath]

And after the MAM is completed?

[tropic hawk]

Manifold. It's enough of a small difference that you really won't notice the production drop until the backfill kicks in

[tropic hawk]

And I thought it was more than one belt segment from the 270 machine(s) to the 120/150 machines, hence why I was advising against it. You are always free to ignore it, but I was giving advice based on my knowledge of the situation

[vapid gorge]

If you care about constant flow I'd consider shipping packaged water and unpackage it at the end point. Shipping liquids can be fiddly if you want to avoid stuttering

[lilac skiff]

I am doomed man

[median heath]

Yeah, because you didn't use Tools.

[lilac skiff]

Scim has tools?

[median heath]

No...

Using Tools instead of SCIM.

[lilac skiff]

I have no idea about it, can you please elaborate

[median heath]

Literally the first website linked in the pins of this channel 🙂

Above SCIM 🙂

But to what you actually meant by "doomed" -- nah. 1800 sheets is a decent amount.
It's a fun setup.

[fierce cypress]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com
your life shall now be 100x easier

[median heath]

https://tenor.com/view/mandalorian-this-is-the-way-gif-21058271

[lilac skiff]

Same na?

[median heath]

better 🙂

[fierce cypress]

100x better

[lilac skiff]

I was saying the amount of builds I have to put.. That is why I am doomed, and it's 1/6 part of a project

[median heath]

@lilac skiff

[fierce cypress]

fair, but use tools in the future - not scim

[median heath]

Also you can cut building amounts down by overclocking.

[fierce cypress]

SCIM for map
SFTools for production

[lilac skiff]

Yes cool

[median heath]

We have functional Radar Towers and a fixed Object Scanner now.
The actual MAP for Map.
Tools for production.

[fierce cypress]

i still use SCIM but up to you

ofc its probably better for new players to use the actual map instead of spoiling it

[median heath]

I only used it because the map was lacking.
Now that the map works, I can finally never use it outside of taking screenshots to help people in here.

[visual wave]

is this website ever going to get updated?

[median heath]

?

Greeny updates Tools all the time.

[visual wave]

it says update 6 (experimental)

[median heath]

He's probably still tweaking things or just forgot the UI update because he's about to make it just say U7 anyway.

[fierce cypress]

no its not getting updated to U7 because Greeny is busy and is working on a complete rework of tools - and not touching the current versions, but there were no recipe changes from U6 > U7 so it should all work ||(apart from OC'ing - i wonder how that works in beta)||

[visual wave]

im playing on U6 currently anyways

[fierce cypress]

@visual wave Greeny's words:

Update 7 is out on experimental

However, tools won't really be updated to U7 in following week, as I'm very busy with real life stuffs. I also need some time to think about how I want to handle new versions of game, as it's getting a bit out of hand (especially with transferring of production lines between versions).

Based on patch notes, there's not many relevant changes for U7 in terms of production lines anyway, so you should be fine with using U6 tool for now (or even U5, there haven't been that many changes since then).

Sorry for that, but I'm just one man and there's only so much time and energy I can dedicate to the tools.

[visual wave]

got it ty

[median heath]

I'm very busy with real life stuffs

Lies. Greeny has no life.

[versed violet]

oops, so I just did this. Any way to interact with the sign without deleting the box?

[cinder silo]

Urgh, I'm afraid not.

[median heath]

Try getting closer?

[cinder silo]

I had the same issue revamping my warehouse, had to del the can, change the sign and replace the can.

No matter how close you get, it'll interact with the can and not the sign.

[median heath]

Interesting style of warehouse though.

[versed violet]

ok, so don't do this

[versed violet]

You mean this?
in progress of rebuilding, need to shuffle some things around. Wanted to mark the currently unused/empty box with a sign and got it... stuck

[median heath]

I just put a X beam in front, personally 😂

[versed violet]

like pillar? or what?

[median heath]

Like... beams.

That cross to make and X.

[versed violet]

I like the other side looks better. Just havent finished wiring the backside belts yet

[cinder silo]

The signage looks alright in these warehouses it just takes a bit if rearranging to configure them.

[median heath]

But I haven't done storage yet this run because I'm thinking about different ways to do it.

[versed violet]

not with the signs stuck inside boxes. how did you even edit them @cinder silo ? Place the box, place sign, delete box, edit sign, replace box?

[cinder silo]

Yeah, mildly annoying when changing the sign but with the way the interact works on the boxes, it's the only way.

[versed violet]

I'll stick to the 'item on belt is the sign' thing. can also quickly grab single pieces, and know when you run out

[cinder silo]

Mine is an auto-warehouse, running out can't happen because the place reloads on its own.

[versed violet]

its for the items that not produce themselves, like bio-stuff.
If the box is empty, you have to go to the mysterius backside and rad the damn labels

[cinder silo]

My bio stuff is semi-automatic and still feeds in to the warehouse via the standard feeds (several of those four-can hoppers are also full)

Just under this sign is the intake can for the sorting tower that spits out biomass, power shards, alien protein inhalers, also holds nuts berries & agaric.

Any other random crap thrown in gets sunk.

[versed violet]

you have it all spaced out with such large gaps?

[cinder silo]

Allows for adding/removing information and having it as one billboard instead of a random sized mess just looks tidier.

[versed violet]

My place is on the compacty side. All squeezed together, with biomats in side room. Grab mats and go, drop junk at end of corridor.
My building mats alley has a friggin railway built in, so I can park a train, load whatever needed for building offsite without making a step, then drive away 🤣

Oh, and a full set of max oc machines just above, so I can connect boxes for some quick custom crafting, they spit result to last box on the right.

[cinder silo]

The sorting tower just lets me drop the crap off, slugs biocrap alien bits flowers, nuts berries and crap I don't need to carry anymore and it'll sort it out for me without further input.

[versed violet]

Now I have design/prettyness question. that goes to architecture or meta, if I'm trying to squeeze machines in without clipping into walls?

[barren elm]

I mean, if you're ever at a point where you can't fit stuff in to your liking, that's just a planning failure rather than a design or meta question

[versed violet]

There is no planning if game update changes stuff and you have to redo some things within existing constraints.

Aka need to fit 5 constructors here. Wondering whether A: move the halftile wall to the right, giving hub very little space or B: Try to fit 5 contructors in 5,5 tiles and somehow cover the half-wall gap.

[barren elm]

You're right that you can't plan around coffeestain breaking your builds, but there's also just no point in thinking about it because you don't know if or when it'll ever happen

Like the only actual solution to that is to wait on 1.0, which you probably don't want to do otherwise you wouldn't be asking this question in the first place

[versed violet]

I'm a simple developer. I try to fix things in place, whout disturbing most of the system

[pulsar viper]

I'm starting to get to the point in my playthrough where I want to begin optimizing setups/buildings to manufacture resources in efficient ratios. However, I'm a bit at a loss for how to best turn the production flowcharts into a space efficient building. Is there a resource that ya'll use for building out efficient layouts?

Additionally, is there a way to export my save into satisfactory tools or an easy way to browse what alt recipes I've unlocked

[wind spade]

space efficiency is usually pointless as the map is huge

[versed violet]

space efficient usually means you'll lock yourself in with the belts. ever played the game where you have to connect numbers, but cannot cross lines? yes, it ends like this.

[cinder silo]

Just build slender towers if you want space efficiency.

[pulsar viper]

My plan was to build out floors that can be blueprinted/expanded upwards as demand for that item increases

[cinder silo]

Proper use of floor holes splitters & mergers lets you seriously compress the floor area and have entirely vertical belts on multiple inputs.

[versed violet]

give yourself twice the beltspace you think you need, unless youre an experienced builder ®️

[pulsar viper]

I'm 110% not an experienced builder xD

[cinder silo]

Prototype slender tower above a miner as an example.

[wind spade]

better is to build only what you need at the moment and separately 😛

[pulsar viper]

I've gotten most of the way through Tier 6 with my factory just being a mangled mess of belts/structures as I progressed through tiers and my needs changed

So now, I'm basically just trying to rebuild everything from scratch with transportation/logistics in mind and mass scalability

Also, just for the sake of my sanity, I'm planning on just creating busses of raw resources/single-use materials and then do all of the intermediate processing at the point of use

Is that a fair approach or are there other things that I should consider building a more accessible supply line for

[cinder silo]

A bus is a tough ask in satisfactory imho, I have a huge facility without quite that sort of material centralisation.

[pulsar viper]

Busses are just my way of staying organized and knowing that I have sufficient resource inputs

[wind spade]

again - separate each factory, much easier than a megabase that does everything

(also busses tank fps a lot)

[cinder silo]

I use a lot of mixed belts and interconnects slung under the entire base but a dedicated bus in this game is rock hard to do well.

[pulsar viper]

I'm kinda riding the line between a megabase and segmented factories... Basically, I want to create a main road that has buildings on either side. Each building is responsible for producing a specific item that I need

Each building takes in raw resources and outputs the finished items+any byproducts

[cinder silo]

Here's a quick overview of how I built, what is shown in this quick clip builds , well everything.

[pulsar viper]

Yep thats basically how I'm planning to build things

[cinder silo]

Satisfactory tools was outright amazing for the on the fly building I went with.

[pulsar viper]

Cool cool, so full steam ahead then. Thanks for showing me that

[cinder silo]

This is how I run the belts under the place.

[versed violet]

oh, things look supported

[cinder silo]

I'm not a fan of floating buildings.

[versed violet]

levitating? Floating is fine in some cases.

[cinder silo]

For floating I'd have to mess with signs and lighting to give the impression of anti-gravity support otherwise it just looks off to me.

[versed violet]

Floating = On water.
I still keep my nuke plant on frame supports to the bedrock, because I don't thrust the buyoance of ficsit puff-concrete

[cinder silo]

Oops, I misunderstood you there, sorry,

Though my on-water facilities tend to have supports reaching to the seabed.

[versed violet]

https://giphy.com/gifs/this-is-the-way-1hAxQTH0HEWS3L0oRF

[cinder silo]

Easier to do though when using the hover pack under water 😎

[versed violet]

you seem to be using illegal hacks, sir

[cinder silo]

Here's the method for underwater hovering.

[young mist]

Question

I have a steel plant that Im putting 240 iron and coal into at the moment, but I want to input 270 because I need some more steel beams. Im currently making 45 beams per minute and 40 pipes per minute, being split five ways 30 30 60 60 60. Im mainly trying to figure out how I can split 270 5 ways, being 30 60 60 60 60?

[median heath]

Manifold.

!wikisearch Manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Manifold

[young mist]

Im already confused 😅

This is what I have rn

sorry that its all messy, im new to theg ame

[median heath]

You made it to steel without getting Foundations?

[sand epoch]

Lol

[young mist]

I do have foundations

[median heath]

Where?

[sand epoch]

You just don't use them?

[young mist]

I dont really know how 😓