math-and-meta

[obtuse elm]

8x8 is gonna be massive and complex, though. It might be easier to peel off parts of the 780s or the 300 and distribute them directly to the underfed belts if you can.

[fierce ruin]

Yeah 8x8 i saw is a bit massive

possibly could be compacted though?

[obtuse elm]

probably, but it'll still be hellishly complex. If you have a fixed input like you described, you'll almost certainly be able to get away with fewer belts and split/merge nodes than the full balancer

[wind spade]

Don't balance, just use what you have on each belt, easy

[obtuse elm]

That's also potentially valid, depending on your intended use

[wind spade]

In pretty much all cases where a balancer would be a solution, there's "easier" solution that doesn't need balancing, hence making balancers is pointless (unless it's part of the challenge)

[magic island]

Balance a 780 with the 300, giving you two 540s.
Balance each 540 with a 780, giving you four 660s.
Split each 600 and each 660 in half, giving you eight 300s and eight 330s.
Merge each 300 with a 330.

Ta-dah, eight balanced belts of 630.

This is not an endorsement, merely an answer.

[fierce ruin]

That’s math for you.

[ember fractal]

I'm in the camp of not balancing and using as is

[snow dove]

So manifolds?

[magic island]

I'm not really in favour of nonspecific balancing (just wanting X number of balanced belts without regard for where those amounts are going)

but splitting to an exact ratio where you're accounting for how each unit on each belt is spent? yeah thats cool

[small pollen]

Manifolds make things easy

[fierce ruin]

Thanks SuperCar. That actually kind of helped 😄

[sand epoch]

The big balancers are a pain to build, but then i use them as a giant manifold. 1 line need 370.. another 700.. etc.. so long as i keep the total 8 outputs to within the input, it all ends up where i need it. :)

And yes, they can be made way more compact ^^

[queen rivet]

One thing I like to point out that for people used to Factorio or some other games that use inserters, is that in essence, a line of factories along a belt using inserters is functionally exactly like a Satisfactory manifold with direct belt feed. Balancers in those other games are used to feed a SET of manifolds/lines of factories, not to balance with every single machine.

[swift robin]

if i used the amount of balancers in satis that i use in factorio my base would be 90% splitters and mergers lol

[frosty owl]

Too many people forget that clocking a machine differently can save tons of balancing imo 😆

[unborn ermine]

Yeah, adding an extra machine or two to a plan can drastically change how nice values can be when mathing out a problem.

[vapid nest]

Any tips on balancing outputs? Like I need 65pm on one input and 13 on another, how do I calculate that?

And it's not a fluid, otherwise you would simply put a valve in the pipeline

[oblique hollow]

you do overflow

[vapid nest]

so manifold

[oblique hollow]

ye

or overflow smart splitter

[vapid nest]

and set the overflow output to the higher number? (65pm)

[oblique hollow]

ye

[vapid nest]

will it balance out after a while like manifolds?

[oblique hollow]

ye

[vapid nest]

Awesome

[frosty owl]

Overflow to the output with the higher number makes it balance faster

[oblique hollow]

thats what we said

[vapid nest]

But when it comes to fluid I should use a valve where I can say how much is allowed to pass through?

That's not how valves work?

So just normal manifold for fluids then

[oblique hollow]

you dont need that

you just do normal overflow with pipes too

since those balance out aswell

valves are too tricky to set up correctly

fun example:

what do you think are the outputs for the top and bottom pipe?

the m³/min

[vapid nest]

both 150?

[oblique hollow]

nope 😉

thats where they get ya

[vapid nest]

0 300?

[oblique hollow]

not that either

[vapid nest]

ok idk

[oblique hollow]

100 and 200

[vapid nest]

why

[oblique hollow]

its a ratio split

[vapid nest]

oh wow

but still, if you know the formula it's easy to set up

I think

[oblique hollow]

keeping track of the ratios for multiple outputs gets complicated

like, finding out how much goes through is easy.
but calculating the ratio when you want a certain output / min? hard

[vapid nest]

It's only hard when you have a higher total flow limit than input flow

If it's the same the limit = output

[oblique hollow]

it easy if the total limit isnt larger than the input, thats true

[vapid nest]

in my example: I have a pipe that has 52 in it, I want to split it to 39 and 13:
(39 x 52) / (39 + 13) = 39

[oblique hollow]

but for that to work right, you need full pipes

[vapid nest]

aw shite

[oblique hollow]

full pipe = full pressure

[vapid nest]

god mmmmmmmm

[oblique hollow]

only then do valves actually output what you set them to

[vapid nest]

kinda stupid tbh

[oblique hollow]

its pipes

[vapid nest]

I'm not an engineer but idk if valves work that way in real life

[oblique hollow]

exactly like this

[vapid nest]

They only work at full pressure?!

[oblique hollow]

well if you have a pipe thats half full you get 0 pressure

[vapid nest]

just pump in air

[oblique hollow]

thats why in satis its so complicated

thats horrible

doesnt work

imagineyou turn on the kitchen sink and you get a sputter of water and air

unusable, irregular flow

and the upper floors get nothing

[vapid nest]

make the diameter smaller

[oblique hollow]

doesnt work

pipe flow is too great

[vapid nest]

Now that I don't understand. First you have too less pressure because there isn't enough fluid / flow inside the pipe but when you make the pipe smaller it's suddenly too much?

[oblique hollow]

if you make smaller pipes, you decrease the flow limit in total

smaller pipes cant handle more pressure

the real solution is to have full pipes

nobody does piping IRL with half full pipes

its now how you use them

[vapid nest]

That's why you make smaller pipes so the pipes are full with less pressure

[oblique hollow]

that limits the amount you can safely transport / min

there is a reason oil pipelines are so large

[vapid nest]

That's because they have so much oil

[oblique hollow]

yea we also have so much liquid

do you even know how much 300 m³/min is?

[vapid nest]

I think it's pretty big

[oblique hollow]

it can fill an olympic swimming pool in less than 10 minutes

[vapid nest]

Not bad

But my point is that I am not trying to send a total of 300 through the pipe, I only have 52

And for such a "low" flow rate you wouldn't need such a big pipe in real life

[oblique hollow]

well its impractical for us to reduce pipe size

universal machine connections and all that

the simplest solution is still to just have a full pipe

you can afford to wait a few seconds for it to fill

[vapid nest]

.... I forgot that you can prime the pipes...

Or prime the machinery

[oblique hollow]

pipe volume minimum is 5 m³ and at best its 66 m³

and yes, priming is important

you can just turn it off and wait

[vapid nest]

Ofc I did it with my coal power plant

Thank you

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah, priming any machine set up that takes fluid is probably just good practice. Heads off a lot of problems

[patent briar]

Can I post pics here?

Oh thank god

There @oblique hollow @frosty owl

Does that explain the issue? I hate not being able to post pics in #satisfactory

This problem is, as I stated prior, compensated for by simply having buffers

[oblique hollow]

due to accelerator cycle time being 2 minutes, i see 0 issues in that case

[patent briar]

Do the math, they all triggered at once and you need to supply 8 particle accelerators 200 copper powder each in 2 minutes or the last one on the manifold chokes

[oblique hollow]

i just let my constructors run full, they serve as enough of a buffer

[patent briar]

8 * 200 = 1600.

1600 / 2 = 800/min

[frosty owl]

"They will need 800/min in a given instantaneous moment"
They will need 1600 items instantaneously. 200x8 machines. But they require that much every (>120 seconds), thus they never need as much as 800/min

[patent briar]

yes, but people sometimes neglect to buffer the last machine on the manifold

[oblique hollow]

its all buffered together tho

[patent briar]

they do if they all finish at once and you didnt buffer the last machine

[oblique hollow]

btw, its not the last machine, its the last 2 usually

they receive stuff at the same speed

[patent briar]

Actually I think I can literally make a formula that tells you precisely how much of a buffer your last machine on the manifold needs to not choke

[oblique hollow]

precisely how much it needs is how much

200 every 120 seconds

[frosty owl]

No... They don't... Regardless of buffering in the last machines, the amoun/min required is always the same: amount required times machines divided production cycle time
So in this case 200 x 8 / (more than 120)

[oblique hollow]

let me set up a test case with a modded recipe.......

[patent briar]

So the variables are:

• Belt speed
• Items per recipe
• Recipe time @ 100%

That should be all it takes to calculate the required buffer for the generic manifold

[oblique hollow]

i dont like using accelerators for this

[patent briar]

So do the math, you didnt buffer the last machine on the end.

All 8 finish at the same time. Your last machine just used up its 200 it just got, so now its empty and just started its recipe.

You have 7 machines that are now 300/500, and 1 machine that is 0/500.

You have 2 minutes to get 200 copper powder in the 8th machine or it chokes.

[frosty owl]

You have more than 2 minutes

[patent briar]

What actually happens is that 8th machine keeps hiccuping and it desynchs by a couple seconds every cycle

[oblique hollow]

and it takes 1 second or so to fill all of them with 780/min

why would it, you have 120 seconds

[patent briar]

15.38 seconds a pop

[oblique hollow]

ah wait....

[patent briar]

to refill machines 1 through 7 will take 107.7 seconds

[oblique hollow]

im once again doing math with 8*200, which is incorrect

you get more than 2 minutes with the last machine

[frosty owl]

Please, go on

[oblique hollow]

last machine has 150 seconds

[patent briar]

ah thats right

Oh so is this only underclocking the last one?

I usually underclock them all the same

[oblique hollow]

you could see it as that

its easier to clock only one

[patent briar]

I dont think it matters which way you do it here, maybe it does

[oblique hollow]

i dont like fine tuning them all

they would all need 97,5 % otherwise

[patent briar]

actually yeah underclocking only the last one may be superior

[oblique hollow]

which is 123.0769... seconds

[patent briar]

because it fixes the issue by inherently desynching it

[frosty owl]

Which just means that all machines have more than 2 minutes to fill up rather than just the "0.8" one

[frosty owl]

You're inventing this issue where there's none (unknown ones), lemme tell you

[oblique hollow]

the total time for filling them is 7* 200 in 120 seconds and 1* 200 in 150 seconds
average time is thus 123.75 seconds

(not taking into acount clocking for the last machine there)

just 8 machines

[frosty owl]

Generally, the only difference is in how fast the manifold fills up. Leaving the most consuming machines at the end and the least consuming at the start lead to the smallest warm-up times

[oblique hollow]

giving a mk 5 belt enough time to move 1608.75 items

[patent briar]

So looking at it, this kind of becomes like the Cicada problem

to actually truly avoid hiccups, and you could probably make an app that does the math for you

but the solution would ideally be to underclock every machine but by a prime number amount to each other, so each one gets a slightly different underclock

if done right they'd only synch up even 2 at a time probably extremely rare (potentially on the scale of once every couple hours)

This would prolly also have a very positive impact on performance, or at least, it would be smoother

[frosty owl]

... Why are you so sure the hiccups happen despite having two (quite experienced if I might say) people who tested on it both agree that there is no such thing nor have they ever heard of something like that
and
you don't have a setup that shows the issue?

[patent briar]

So Iodine Gas Filters are the most extreme example

Its actually impossible to make them at 100% efficiency

I am still fairly sure its functional of what % of a stack gets consumed by the recipe

The reason I am so sure is there was an extremely long convo here months and months ago where we dug into it and broke down the numbers and it basically came out to "what % of a stack does the recipe use" was all that really mattered

[frosty owl]

Sighs...
Please, do bring it back up with an actual setup showing the issue.
I'm not trying to close the convo like this, I'm just tired of discussing it and feel like we won't get anywhere without some actual evidence on your part on the table (a setup we can troubleshoot)

[patent briar]

This was months and months ago so I dont have the example recipes we found that demonstrated it

I thought it was HMFs but nah it was something else

[oblique hollow]

im now doing a test case

[patent briar]

Iodine infused gas filters are the extreme example

[frosty owl]

I get that you originally discussed itong ago, and it's fine...
But if this was an actual issue, making a setup to demonstrate it (as McGalleon is doing) shouldn't be hard to do. Accelerators seemed like a good choice for this as it would require very little work to be made (faking the inputs with containers ofc)

[patent briar]

Iodine Infused Filters should be obvious why the issue happens, they use 100% of a stack per recipe

[frosty owl]

What are you talking about?
They take 1 filter to make an infused filter. Stack size of 50...

[patent briar]

oh wait right, filters stack

I dont remember what the recipe was then

[frosty owl]

I really think you could sort this out quite quickly by slapping down 7.8 accelerators and seeing what happens...

[patent briar]

theres a recipe that uses an item with stack size of 1 IIRC that demonstrates the problem IIRC

I feel like you arent listening to what I am saying at this point, so I think this convo is over

cheers

[frosty owl]

I accurately read everything you wrote so far and tried to answer in many different ways to bridge the comprehension gap were having...
If this is "not listening" to you, I'm quite disheartened I've wasted the past hour looking up recipes and typing to get to this...

[oblique hollow]

there isnt to my knowledge

i can test it again though

the issue is only with recipes that

1. use more than 50% of stack size
2. have stack size greater than 1

[frosty owl]

Btw, the convo is still very much ongoing, if you're willing to

[oblique hollow]

almost there... almost have my test case

8* 250 per cycle, cycletime is 200 seconds

during the time where they are all full, the smelters making silica fill up

now how should i test this?
@patent briar

or does it need to be 780/min

due to belt speed limit being needed

[glacial summit]

what is the packager for..?

[oblique hollow]

its doing a fake recipe

to test belt throughput issues with recipes that need a lot of items per cycle

[oblique hollow]

@frosty owl dunno if you are interested in a result.
been testing this: 750 demand / production. 250 needed per cycle, max stack size 500.
as expected, runs smoothly

[finite sun]

why are you even testing this, tho?
theoretically (and practically), if a belt can feed enough items during the course of 1 production cycle, then it should run smoothly. If it can't cope with such demand, then it won't (but then again, that would mean that input rate exceeds 780/m)

[magic island]

If I understand correctly, the worry is that if all machines finish a recipe at the same moment, then they all have an "input vacuum" at the same moment. And since it's a manifold, some machines will get that vacuum filled first, and some might get momentarily starved within a few cycles. Basically reintroducing some spin-up time.

And there's two ways this might shake out. Either...
-The manifold can always get the later machines caught up in time, preventing the problem entirely.
-The momentary delay on some machines will introduce an appropriate amount of desync to prevent the problem from recurring.

Dunno which is actually the case.

[frosty owl]

Can you screenshot the recipe in the packagers' UI, please? If you're still in game 😅

[oblique hollow]

its 250 silica per 200 seconds

75 / min

gimm a moment...

[frosty owl]

Nice layout
Could you tweak it to 780/min just to make extra sure?

[void gorge]

what makes option 3 better than option 2 when i can just update my assemblers to the new blueprint, tho i noticed i'd need to beef up screw production to make it worth it, but i see that better than requiring two ores for iron bars

[wind spade]

Usually you wan't to redo the production line entirely when adding new alt recipe. Or even get alts before making the production line

[unborn ermine]

I look at recipes with other recipes in mind, so I am inclined to go for 3 as an option.

[wind spade]

The reinforced plate alt is just more resources for same output btw

[void gorge]

thats why im going hdd hunting now to get the best out of em before i build out more

[void gorge]

ah i spose that makes more sense

[wind spade]

If you're going for "best" then you should already know which ones are those 😉

[frosty owl]

Perfect description 👌
Imo, manifolds behave like (2) when still filling up some of the machines ||except the last 2 machines||, but once it balances out (1) should apply as long as one provides enough items/min

The fact that there are no recipes that need more than half a stack of items assures that none of the machines will lack items to start their next production cycle when properly primed

[void gorge]

i don’t actually i’m still kinda new is there a guide

[wind spade]

No, because there are no best/worst recipes

All are situational and it depends on you what do you prefer and what do you want to optimise for

[void gorge]

alright i figured so

another set of eyes to see the numbers and explain them helps

[wind spade]

Wiki has a decent math analysis of recipes

Look at item pages

[vapid estuary]

ferinstance, i use the bolted plate recipe specifically because it puts out the most

[wind spade]

Outputting the most is building more machines 😛

[vapid estuary]

true that, but my vibe is human-scale buildings. this is my steel products room, everything short of fused frames

[vapid gorge]

See I always figured that any vacuum gap gets fixed with manifold spin up time since it’d self correct and desync machines even if they somehow synced up while the overflow feed was happening

[vapid gorge]

I feel the steeled frame is a bit more flexible. If you combine it with other recipes that use pipes you can reduce the total number item types being made.

I tend to dislike screws but that’s from early game trauma.

Iron alloy looks interesting and probably has a niche but I haven’t come across a situation where it wasn’t better to move somewhere with extra iron if it’s needed. The situations probably exist but much less so the way I build

[vapid gorge]

Not yet :p , subjective meanderings will happen

[unborn ermine]

Personally I am loving the regular recipe, and replacing the components.
I used Ironwire+Stitched, then steel rods.

You could go even further and add oil products later.

[vapid gorge]

Doesn’t the base recipe have screws too? It’s been maybe more than a year since using/seeing it XD

[unborn ermine]

Nah its just plates and rods

well RIP "plates"

I feel like a good chunk of the medium recipes like mod frames can be just as good if not "better" at times with the base materials fiddled with instead.
Though complexity is defo a factor later in the game, see steeled recipes.

I hate it when my head has ideas backwards. had to edit that to make sense.

[vapid gorge]

Ahhh ok ok , might have just attached the extreme screws I was using in the RIP and linked that in my brain

I have to look at the recipes now

[vapid gorge]

I feel you XD

[unborn ermine]

Its the worst when it happens in a heated convo, got blocked earlier because I snapped while I was confused
(my fault though entirely)

[vapid gorge]

Oh and looking at the recipes I think I realised my steel frame enjoyment.

The combination of pipes for me is good because of HMF.
I can make pipes for the Encased Beams, mod frames, and HMF to streamline

[vapid gorge]

Might be worthwhile to ask someone to pass on an apology to the person? I find admission of being wrong very soothing

[unborn ermine]

Yeah the homogenous production line, easier especially if you go for the "Steel 100% to pipe" route

Eh

I dont mind it, just seems silly to block a person over ONE argument/insult slip.

[vapid gorge]

Like I had a boss snap at me for no good reason and he came to me 15 min later to apologise and I was like ‘damn, best boss’

[vapid gorge]

Tempers flare shrug

It’s also tough online because you don’t get tone or facial cues

[unborn ermine]

And I didnt see what I said as an insult until it was in my face either. Its just how communication is for me at times.

But

Whats done is done

Although it does hurt a bit feeling left out

[vapid gorge]

Language is imperfect and subjective to personal context at any particular time :/

[thick plume]

does anyone have a good ratio recipe for stitched iron plates w/ iron wire?

[sand epoch]

A ratio recipe? Huh..

You build what you need to get what you need.. o0

[fierce ruin]

Calculate things 🙂

[thick plume]

I'm trying to figure out how to divide 135 plates into 4.5 constructors lol

[sand epoch]

You dont need to figure it out? Just line up the splitters and manifold it

[thick plume]

or more specifically, 75 plates into 3 constructors with 30 x 30 x 15

I know I know :/

I'm trying to make it perfect though 😛

[sand epoch]

So what you should be asking for.. or just googling is a 1 to 5 balancer..

[thick plume]

nah, you're right, I'll just manifold it

it'll just have to take some time to ramp up

[sand epoch]

You can just manually fill them first?

[thick plume]

I really wish you could make conveyor door walls x1 but move the position of the one door :/

[modern sail]

Yeah. I also wish there were off set 2 hole, and 4 hole walls.

[thick plume]

I don't see why there aren't. It's so frustrating

Man, no other game makes my graphics card hit a consistent 180F

that's ridiculous

[sick tulip]

unoptimized
not finished
yadi yadi yada

[silent ridge]

1+1=3

[gilded widget]

@thick plume mines a max 120 lol, that’s on a ultra wide, 1440p ultra all

[modern sail]

I only hit 90 on a 5120x1440, and that is on a 1080ti air cooled.

[gilded widget]

90F or C. Mines about 51C max

[proven sphinx]

I have 3640 fuel, i have 118 machines @ 100% and 2 machines at 166.6667% each machine @ 100% uses 30 fuel + the 2 machines at 166.6667%, how many pipes of fuel would you divide the 3640 fuels into ?

[vapid nest]

Question: what's more tedious to build, HMF or Komputahs

Probably Komputahs because of the oil right?

[wary tulip]

6 t2 pipes and an overflow t1 pipe.

[wary tulip]

I found computers easier. But I had alt recipes to streamline it.

[vapid nest]

Crystal or Caterium?

[little shore]

im looking at attempting a mega factory, does anyone know the max number of resources producable on the map, so I can figure the number of smelters/refineries/etc per resource?

[proven sphinx]

if this is correct

[little shore]

Thanks

[wary tulip]

Your mega factory will lag out and crash if you try for every resource methinks….

[little shore]

even on top end gaming rigs?

[proven sphinx]

it's not about computer specs x)

[wary tulip]

Engine limitations.

[little shore]

Ahhh. Even Eden and the other super factories are more spread out?

[wary tulip]

I believe they are. For too much in one space causes issues.

But you can build quite large factories before having that issue.

[little shore]

fair, maybe if I break it down to a central processing for all resources then push that out to warehouse for further refinement into parts?

would that be enough separation, or still too much in one spot?

[wary tulip]

That’s what I would suggest. The initial processing for ingots and base level materials takes up the most space.

[proven sphinx]

this is what we are making and we are 320 hours in .. xD but we are using extra time making everything visually pretty

[wary tulip]

Our multiplayer game is now over 1000 hrs in… and we have a central distribution hub to divide up the factories

[proven sphinx]

xD

[wary tulip]

We finally got the continental railroad set to go into every region

[little shore]

what's the footprint of your central distro hub like, about/

[proven sphinx]

we have a mainline of doubletracks for trains all arround the map and all our sections of factories are connected to that those tracks , we will make some drones aswell .. and i've also made 6 uranium + 2.25 plutonium fuel rod factory for electricity

[wary tulip]

The big circular lake area in the center of the map… it’s a circular station that is the size of the largest lake there. Processes 16 outbound trains and 3 intake trains.

We also use double tracks. And have drones going. We have a 6 reactor test power plant, and a large diluted fuel powerplant.

[vapid nest]

Sorry again, how many HMF pm is a good start?

[frosty owl]

I think that with enough "horsepower" you could expand your factory that much, but you'll probably want to cut down on decoration and keep things as logistically optimized as possible

[frosty owl]

A couple manufacturers' worth?

[deft lichen]

=2 manufacturers

if you have HDDs or the encased frame alt already, use it

[vapid nest]

Ig having trains would be very useful?

[little shore]

gotta wait for that 4090TI to crush it all easily?

[frosty owl]

Better GPU just means keeping better graphic settings. After a while, it'll be the CPU and RAM that bottleneck FPS

[little shore]

I think so, especially as distances become greater between delivery point, it seems with freight cars, trains have the best thoroughput over large distances.

64Gb RAM/12900?

[frosty owl]

... It's not like there exist a "spec-to-#-of-machines" converter 😅
As long as you have enough RAM (>32 I think) and can bear the FPS you get, you're good

[deft lichen]

trains are quite handy as they make building outposts way easier
I recommend you to plan your railroads ahead with tools like SCIM so they're sensical and multiple trains can use them

[little shore]

haha, true, just was curious if the ram on the GPU might bear the load significantly better alongside the 64gb RAM

[frosty owl]

The RAM on the GPU?

[little shore]

jesus, looks like speculation is 24Gb atm

[tender thorn]

Hey guys, can I get some help about automating computers?

Or at least can I ask how did you guys automate computers

[wind spade]

what kind of help do you want? build a machine, set recipe to computers, check how much items and which ones you need, repeat process until you're at raw resources 🤷‍♂️

[deft lichen]

if you have enough of said resource, just belt it in, otherwise build a new factory to produce that resource

screws are best produced near the manufacturers

[tender thorn]

I'm just looking for ideas on how to automate computer efficiently, I'm not planning output rate too high I'm looking for something maybe less than 30/min, I have got a lot of resources available, I got all of the alternate recipes, I am still at the phase where tier 5 and 6 is at

satisfactory tools isn't really helping me that much so that's why I am here, asking this question

[wind spade]

huh, why not? (I made that tool, so I wonder what's wrong 😉 )

[tender thorn]

My brain isn't able to comprehend :,)

[wind spade]

it tells you how many machines to produce which recipe 🤷‍♂️

[deft lichen]

3.25 machines translates to 325%, so for example 3 machines at 100% and one at 25%

[tender thorn]

aaand here is the thing I am not able to comprehend

my brain is ded :D

[deft lichen]

zoom in and go through each orange tile

[tender thorn]

I have no idea on how much output I want

[wind spade]

you can move the boxes around to put them into nicer shape

[tender thorn]

that's where the problem begins

[deft lichen]

I'd start at 2,5 or 5 per min

[wind spade]

start at smaller number, expand if you need more

[tender thorn]

Alrighty

[wind spade]

if you need more for later components, you can also make separate computer factory

[deft lichen]

when you have the plan out, add 7,5 or 15 circuit boards/min, they'll come in handy later

[tender thorn]

I think I get it now and I found where I got confused

It's because I was trying to go according to the plan and not do an overflow system where input is greater than needed

welp, thank you guys :D

[unborn ermine]

I found with recipes like that or at least the plans, if you add an extra machine when figuring out the clock speeds, it tends to be a nicer number.

Like the one pictured, wants 5 manufactures, I would shoot for 6 instead and see how that % speed would look ect. with all the machines.

[vapid nest]

We don't talk about that factory.

It holds a total Satisfactory taboo

[glacial summit]

Sushi conveyor, not manifolded storage with mixed items in crates and powered by biofuel?

[vapid nest]

Oh I thought what I did was pretty bad but I didn't know it goes even beyond

Storing of screws in an industrial storage container

[glacial summit]

Dear god

[vapid nest]

I need them for HMF since I don't have that automated yet

[void gorge]

what’s the go to for using a mk2 miner on coal and iron with mk3 belts for steel production

[glacial summit]

What

[restive heron]

Well if it’s pure then they work at about the same rate if that’s the question

If you have the alt recipe that uses iron bars that changes things because that can increase steel quantity by 50%

If your wanting max output you can overclock a pure slightly to meet the 270 that mk3 can transport for some reason since pure makes 240 units

[vapid nest]

When doing factories that take parts that are delivered by train, are the parts produced in one big on site factory especially made for this product chain or is it wiser to maximize production of a certain part and then store the excess and ship the parts that are needed?

[vapid nest]

So this is what I have come up with for MF, Screws and Fuel. The fuel is there because I need power and I figured I'd generate power with fuel, and while I'm at it use the byproduct and turn it into rubber, which can be used for adhered iron plates. Thoughts?

[vapid gorge]

So there's nothing wrong with that but I suppose you should ask what you're going for?

The way I would approach it is very dif is all.

So what I get from that prod line:

[vapid nest]

It's for heavy modular frames

[vapid gorge]

1. if you're needing power and this is to supply it it's not a bad idea to use the waste for something useful sure.

And because it IS waste your power supply from there won't be dependent or intermingled with your MF factory as long as you keep an extra sink for hte polymer resin in case your MF buffer gets full

I suppose the thing that concerns me is if you've though what you would do when you say get Diluted Fuel which changes things quite a bit? Just tear it down? Are you ok with if yo uchange your fuel station to something that might not be able to produce rubber for your MF anymore?

[vapid nest]

Hmm.

[vapid gorge]

Like these aren't BAD. Just things to think about

But it is thigns like this that gives me the concrete rule of 'no mixing power infrastructure with factory infra'

[vapid nest]

You do have a huge point.

[vapid gorge]

I mean you could just keep a tiny extra power station there while making a dilute somewhere else? That's not an issue really.

[vapid nest]

Diluted needs a blender tho right?

[vapid gorge]

But looking at all that, I'd probably just make a rubber factory to feed the MF and maybe other thigns, while making power elsewhere

[vapid gorge]

there's a refinery dilute recipe too

[vapid nest]

Packaged water and HOR

[vapid gorge]

It's not quite as power efficient as blender I believe but extremely good still

[vapid nest]

This actually makes more sense to me now

Thank you

[vapid gorge]

Yeah no worries 🙂
It really just depends what you want and how you think your system will grow in the future.
After a few maps you just get in the the rhythm of knowing how systems can interconnect

I mean honestly - even if you do make that a dedicated rubber plant, you might really want to turn that into a recycled rubber plant later right?
So it might have to be torn down anyway

Oh and just so you know the basic rubber of oil:rubber ratio is 3:2 , with the recycled alt loop it turns into 3:9. Crazy extra output

[vapid gorge]

oh just real quick - why adhered plate? Not extra copper or iron for stiched or regular?

[vapid nest]

There is no copper and not much iron BUT a ton of oil. And since I still need power I figured why not produce fuel and use the byproduct of polymer resin to make rubber

[vapid gorge]

Fair enough 🙂 I've never actually had a situation where I wouldn't have moved the factory needed to somewhere with more iron/copper (iron wire is pretty sweet) rather than adding petro to the mix. But reducing complexity has high value to me

[vapid nest]

Same for me

[vapid gorge]

Maybe if possible have a squeeze at the map and see what's available around you? Even grabbing a few extra alts. 30 MF pm is not a tiny factory and might be nice to be kept for the future.

Oh what miner / belt mk are you at?

[vapid nest]

Miner Mk2 with some overclocking and MK4 belt

[vapid gorge]

and what are the iron nodes you're using?

[vapid nest]

I don't have it on screen but i think it was 2 normal and 1 pure. 2 normal cole and 1 pure, 4 pure oil. On the map it's the far east where the lake in a stone crater is

[vapid gorge]

Oh you have a pure chucked in there? Have you ear marked it for Heavy MF already?

[vapid nest]

Wym

[vapid gorge]

I thought you said you were making the MF for HMF after, which would require more iron

[vapid nest]

I originally wanted to produce the components for HMF on seperate places, then let a train collect them and ship them to the 3 manufacturers that would make them. But when I calculated the needed Power (which was something around 1300) I realized I needed to go for fuel power. And that's why I thought about linking the MF and RIP factory together with the fuel generation.

[vapid gorge]

oooOOOooo ok

WELL some more suggestions based on what you've said?

your 2 normal nodes overclocked can do 600 ore pm which would be enough for your MF, leaving the pure free to do a bunch of work.
Do you happen to have coal and limstone nearby?

[vapid nest]

Coal somewhat yes, limestone no. I thought about making a train go between my main base, go past a concrete factory along the way to the main HMF factory. The factory I think will take up the whole crater

But the more we talk the more I am thinking there might be better solutions

[vapid gorge]

Well my brain doesn't stop when problem solving mode is going? Want me to vomit forth ideas?

[vapid nest]

Sure

[vapid gorge]

ok this is assuming-
you want to stay relatively where you are
remove oil complexity

[vapid nest]

Maybe good places for HMF factories

[vapid gorge]

over clock your 2 normal and 1 pure node -
Make steel and wire/screws rather than rubber.

I'm pretty sure by eyeballing it that you could just bring in concrete and make HMF where you currently are planning

If you hunt the Iron Wire alt you could do sticthed RIP which I like but isn't critical
The Encased Pipe Alt is glorious and if you do a plan and coming up short on iron from what you have there will save you on Steel

do you have any steel ingot alts?

[vapid nest]

I don't think so

My game isn't running

[vapid gorge]

Hmm Well Solid Steel Ingot is amazing if you can find it. It'll help reduce the iron cost, same with Encased Pipe

That being said - these suggestions rest more on the idea that this might be a factory you'd want to keep until late end game type stuff, not one you'd be happy to tear down later

If you think you'll tear it down w/o sadness in your heart... just slap something together would be my suggestions

[vapid nest]

I generally want to make factoriess that work well and wouldn't need immediate replacement once everything gets way waay bigger, at the same time I know that 6 HMF pm is the maximum for now

[vapid gorge]

Well if it interests you you could probably do your plan on the same spot just bringing in concrete which would save a lot of logistic works (which I try to minimize)

Might need to hunt a couple alts but honestly Solid Steel Ingot, Encased Pipe, and Iron wire make production lines much more flexible for anything using those items so good investment in your future

[vapid nest]

Lucky I already have 2 of those

Is there something like a solid factory layout planner that isn't SCIM ?

[vapid gorge]

Noice 😄
I put high value on Flexibility options when it comes to alts

Iron Wire = i can have either iron or copper nearby for this factory

flexible

and the other two cut down the iron coal costs which makes any location with those become more available for plans of size

[vapid nest]

This is gonna be a pain to plan out

I remember I needed 2 hours for my motor factory. I mean it runs smoothly at 10 pm but still... And then there's Computers, which are way easier but.... So much resource

[vapid gorge]

Yup XD

[vapid nest]

Is there a software or tool to visualize factory layouts? Placement of machinery, converyors etc so I know what to place where?

[vapid gorge]

You can do some cool stuff with alts though. Make substantial number of computers with the right combo with very little in logistics

[vapid gorge]

Well.. there's Satisfactory Calculator in the scim page, but I find that a visual nightmare

[vapid nest]

600 plastic pm with 300 crude oil for computerss.

[vapid gorge]

and the spliters and belts are awful in how the program decides things

For layout and logistic planning though? I use an excell sheet

[vapid nest]

For layout? How? you can draw lines and boxess?

[vapid gorge]

SO don't get scared, I'll explain

[unborn ermine]

Their nasty planner has an option for "realistic mode" that adds nasty splitters and miner stuff

iirc its all numbers anyways, probably not much help

[vapid gorge]

this is part of a very complex set up and is only the 'basic' layout. So like near the top left you see 'Tanks' makign alum cannisters right? It's got the total ingots need and below that 1x 360 meaning 1 belt of 360 ingots

Next to that I have packaged N, which is what it's being fed into, so I now I'll need the 1x belt to move between the Tank Factory and Packaging factory

In Packaged N it's broken into Tanks and Gas, total used and to the right of that the number of belt/pipes with the resource pm on each

It's less work than it looks though, it's just been translated from the Tools page you use in a way for me to do the initial lay out

[vapid nest]

That's complicated. I am more about visual stuff, I saw once a Layout visually made that was made by a friend of ImKibitz for the rubber/Plastic mega factory

[vapid gorge]

Yeah you can do that too ish

for this one it's baux refining

each building is broken down here. So where it says B375 W375 thats 1 refinery and what it needs

AS450 is the solution output directly in 1 pipe going into the next refinery in front of it

so in that case the first cell is a refinery with what it's doing, the one under it is the pipe and after that is another refinery

Now this may not work for your brain, this is my personal shorthand.
Also I've had a lot of experience laying out buildings that unless I'm doing something really finicky and aesthetic this is as much of a diagram as I need

If you're not doing anything wild It's generally pretty safe to build something in lines of manifolds next to each other and be aware how much space you need

[vapid nest]

I think I have a general understanding of what my next steps will be:

1. Build at least 20 fuel generators for the power alone. Probably at the base of the crater.
2. Build a platform across the entire crater.
3. Build steel pipes and EIP on one side
4. Build MF and Screws on the other
5. 3 Manufacturers in the middle where all the products meet.
6. Set up a train network starting from the middle of the factory, loading up HMF and then ship them to a warehouse in the middle of the grass lands.

eAsY

[vapid gorge]

Nice 😄

How far is it to the grass lands?

[vapid nest]

something like 1.5 km

Blue crater to Grass fields

[vapid gorge]

Oh yeah that's a bit of a ways. Permanent train line or think you might want to just drone the HMF later?

[vapid nest]

I'm nowhere near unlocking drones and then you need to power them. So yea, train along the bottom road

@vapid gorge Thanks alot for the help

[vapid gorge]

No prob 🙂

[unborn ermine]

Similar logistics problem here too
Blue Crater to Dune desert. Crater going to be plastics/rubber plant for nearby planned factories and such, and aluminum factory -> turbos nearby later.

Defo need to get into trains myself especially if I want to use that specific oil resource well for turbo power potentially or not.

[vapid gorge]

if you build tall enough tier item could just drone

[vapid nest]

Have you used the oil on the beach on the West yet? Wouldn't those be more near to the dune desert?

[unborn ermine]

Problem is, that IS going to be my power

[vapid gorge]

rock desert

[unborn ermine]

Current power, the consumption is my setup over by aluminum not running atm(just to scrap level atm)

Liiittle bit of wiggle room, but I have to get some power running before I can even think of drones.

[vapid gorge]

Geothermal making the wave?

[unborn ermine]

Yep

[vapid gorge]

Cutting it a bit close 😄

[unborn ermine]

Has batteries to match so its fine

With my "manual machines" for alt crafting plugged in, its well over the bottom of the curve (Max cons)

I ended up saying "screw it" and brought back scrap from one stack each of petrol in my electro refieries to both test and get some materials to start.
Used my container of silica I had laying around to get a ton of ingots
10x refineries worth, so around 10000 scrap to bring home and 6666 ish ingots to get me rolling

Tier 7 is done at least

I ran out of mats for my belt running (no trains yet setup)
So I was just like "mmm I have petrol stacks...."

[vapid gorge]

'container'? a 'temporary' ingot line? Monstrous

[unborn ermine]

one step from automating scrap, two from instant ingots

I needed more mk4 belts

Blasted though some tech at least, and have enough to set up a blender fuel system.

Im "happy" with that ending of the night.

Oh and silica container was from my comp factory,
VERY early on set stuff up and even have containers (industrial) full of quartz, circuit boards, oscillators, computers, and highspeed connectors for "later"

Was like my one "planned from the start of the save" factory.

[fierce ruin]

Is there a list of the optimal set of recipes to use?

[obtuse elm]

Optimal depends on your existing setup and available resources :)

[fierce ruin]

theoretical optimal ignoring temporary limitations

[obtuse elm]

Depends on your goals and what you're optimizing

[unborn ermine]

I think someone has a google doc floating somewhere with "best use" recipes scaled off of resources.

I remember seeing it and being like "ok, thats a thing" and moving on.

nvm that was from update 3
Still had that in my google temp files

[vapid gorge]

No, because everyone has different end goals and uses different spots it's pretty much all up in the air.

Recipe values change depending on end goals and how you want to build

You could find something like 'best recipes to maximise all resources on map for max points'

[hexed spindle]

Doesn't the wiki have information about which recipes use the least power, or resources, or buildings for a given product?

[sterile glacier]

you can find alternate recipes on the wiki

most of them use less resources

[hexed spindle]

There's also a post on r/SatisfactoryGame titled "Alternate Recipes In-Depth Analysis" by u/wrigh516, which has someone else's scoring, but IIRC there's also a spreadsheet there that may let you adjust weighting yourself.

[sterile glacier]

some alt recipes arent the most efficient in terms of items input to output, but most of the time they allow you to use far less resources, buildings and as a result power

[magic island]

unfortunately because the recipe comparisons shown in the wiki can't reasonably account for every permutation, you can't always rely on it for certain optimizations

ie, since the wiki always defaults to the most WP-efficient precursor recipes, the power column for quickwire-based recipes will always be inflated. this because the WP-efficient cat recipe (Pure Caterium Ingot) is also a huge power hog. So in that instance, if you care more about power than resource efficiency, you'd have to ignore the wiki and recalculate with smelted

[vapid gorge]

Yeah and those recipes don’t take into account where everyone is building or WHAT they want to build right?

Even the energy per item doesn’t take into account power cost of logistics to bring everything together. Like if you don’t have to have a train or drone to move things a recipe that in general costs less energy could easily cost more when you take into account transport.

And it’s pretty easy for a situation with the ‘worse’ energy consumption of energy recipe costs less if you can build it on location w/o transport

[hexed spindle]

Yup, totally fair. I'm just saying, at least some number crunching has been attempted, so you probably don't have to start from scratch. 🙂

[hexed spindle]

That's interesting and a good point, too.

Surely someone who filled in those tables on the wiki has a spreadsheet or program or something, right? It'd probably be nice if that was available.

[wind spade]

wiki uses https://www.satisfactorytools.com/

[hexed spindle]

That's interesting. Are you indirectly saying that you, for example, scripted up something to add the tables with weighted points and such to every page? Or did someone... surely someone didn't go through every item, every recipe by hand using your calculator, then type it into the wiki?

[wind spade]

they did go through each recipe, force that recipe in tools and calculated rest "by hand"

but since they started from raw materials, every next step already had the prerequirements done

[hexed spindle]

That's dedication.

Personally I would have automated it. Probably would have taken me at least 5x longer, but I would have felt much cooler at the end.

[wind spade]

weighted points are a simple [raw materials] * [weights]

power is calculated by tools as well

[oblique hollow]

all of this was the reason why the Recipe summaries section was brought to life

its only of a few pages so far

but the goal is to have it on every recipe page

Recipe summaries is supposed to give a subjective summary, stating cases where a recipe might be useful (plus its downsodes) , without going into alt recipe permutations

!wikisearch cable

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=cable

[oblique hollow]

one of the pages with such a section

[wind spade]

may be worth to give them a heading so they appear in TOC

[oblique hollow]

yep

i might do it if i find the time, else ill just ask team wiki

[hexed spindle]

Interesting, SCIM tries to give me electrode or silicon circuit board (latter when I turn off electrode) before default or Caterium circuit board, even when I enable all alternate recipes. Greeney's and satisfactory-planner.net both give me either Caterium or default (when I turn off Caterium)

[wind spade]

scim doesn't optimise

scim just blindly uses all recipes you pick

if you pick multiple, it uses first in it's own internal order

and it can't use multiple recipes for same thing (at least it was the case last time I checked)

[oblique hollow]

Satis tools optimizes for lowest resource usage

if you know what you are doing you can enforce other recipes by disabling all but the one you want to use

[hexed spindle]

Duly noted. Wish I hadn't been using SCIM to plan.

[vapid gorge]

I find the visual representation of splitting and machines to be poor as well. Hard to sort it and never really represents likely set ups for the location you’re at

[unborn ermine]

For that potential issue, you can inject additional product on an extra tab (further up a production chain)
Its what I do anyways.

Stagger the tabs and inject if issues like that are in production.

Example of one of my messes of a factory chains.

(I have copper wire AND iron wire)

I wanted to get rid of extra materials in an area and make some SE parts while I was at it.

[hexed spindle]

I actually like that, personally.

[wind spade]

what I mean by that is you can't make it show e.g. recycled loop with residual rubber

[unborn ermine]

Wait a tick

[unborn ermine]

Then whats this

[wind spade]

we're talking about scim

[unborn ermine]

Oh

You had me confused as hell for a bit there

Ok

I try my best to slowly slide into convos, obviously cant read like a proper human yet.

[wind spade]

most of the times it isn't balanced anyway and most of the times you want to build manifolds as they are much simpler and work the same, so I don't personally see the need to display splitting

[median mirage]

bit of a google spreadsheet noob question here: is there a good way of having the values in the instances column dynamically multiply the other values of the corresponding row? or should i just make a hidden separate data table that i can refer to?

(please ignore the sum row)

[wind spade]

(before you start reinventing the wheel, there are a few calculators that can do the job for you in #welcome or here in pins)

[prime willow]

oh, thats a lot of quickwire

[wind spade]

looks like a nice 2:1 ratio with some clock speed adjustments

put two quickwire constructors in front of every manufacturer

[prime willow]

i think Im going to make some of it elsewhere with the Pure alternative recipe and the rest at the main factory

[vapid gorge]

The regular recipe can be a bit tedious based on your location

[vapid nest]

Is "Satisgraphtory" any good?

[frosty owl]

I wish SCIM just linked to SFTools given the only advantage its planner has is subjectively better graphics, while having some pretty hefty downsides instead :/ (compared to SFT ofc)

Someone should just tell the Devs of both to just get together and just make one site for both

[frosty owl]

If you like it more than draw.io, I'd say it is

Though personally I have a bias for SaLT

[vapid nest]

SaLT?

[frosty owl]

Aye. Look it up

[vapid nest]

Salt is an internet provider in my country it shows me probably not that

[wind spade]

outdated iirc

oh, there's satisgraphtory 2... that seems up to date

[vapid nest]

I just fell in love with drawio, way simpler and flexible

[proven sphinx]

i got 2 belts of 400 and a belt of 740, how can i divide them equally to 2x770?

[frosty owl]

Did you try adding "satisfactory"? 😆
The "LT" stands for Layout Tool

[vapid nest]

...

Oh so it's basically factorio

[frosty owl]

... No?
It's a tool in development specifically for satisfactory (thus the name)

[vapid nest]

No I know but it looks very similar to the game "factorio". It has a similar style. It's definetely NOT factorio lol

[frosty owl]

Oh, I haven't played it so I can't tell

[wind spade]

The first question is, if you need to. Can't you just use what you have on the belt?

[frosty owl]

Simple enough:
Smart-split 60/min from one of the 400 lines.
Split 60/min in 2 and send one of these (30/min) to the 740 line to make a 770 line. Merge the remaining 30/min with the rest to make another 770/min line

Of course, beware of the maxed belt bug

[proven sphinx]

i have 3 wagons on the train would prefere if they had equal amount on each wagon when going to next factory

[wind spade]

Again, same question - can't the next factory just use what you have in each wagon?

[proven sphinx]

i like it to be as ocd friendly as posible, and when i have 100 on each belt and each machine uses 20 i know there will be enough for 5 on that belt etc

idk i just pictured it like that in my head atleast 😂

[wind spade]

Well it's your save, it's just unnecessary complication 🤷

[proven sphinx]

so you would just send 1 belt to each wagon and just use what you have on the other end ?

[proven sphinx]

like this ? Or do i need to have the first splitter as a smart splitter prioritizing left output and having center as overflow ?

[vapid nest]

phew

[proven sphinx]

im glad i didnt make a chart like that when i made over 700 fuel gens with turbofuel xD

[vapid nest]

Split it into smaller groups

That's what I would do

I didn't place all 25 gens by hand, 5 then copy paste

But is that decent for the first power plant or should I go for more?

[proven sphinx]

you will never get enough power :P but if you are satisfied thats all that matters

[vapid nest]

3750 mw is more than enough

And still mid-game so prolly yea

[proven sphinx]

we arent even halfway there, and some people would say this is just small amounts of power xD

[vapid nest]

Turobofuel and Nuclear Fuel.

[frosty owl]

The splitter must be a smart one. That's what I mean when I said "smart split 60/min", as that's the only way to reliably output 60/min with a single splitter.

Note: depending on how precise the system is and how uneven the 400/min line is, you MIGHT need extra care in splitting 60/min from it to achieve an exact result all the time

3 is too low as an "overflow buffer" for smart splitters, it doesn't assure a steady stream of items (eg: 60/min) regardless of how the items come from the "main belt"

||Ofc, that's assuming the items never come at less than 60/min||

[fierce ruin]

More power!

[muted goblet]

Does someone have a megafactory as calculator share thingy? Im thinking about building one 🙄

[copper breach]

i do the crafting i can all by hand who needs power XD

[proven sphinx]

i have 2.25 plutonium fuel rods ready for usage, but im saving it until i have to use it due to waste xD

[fierce ruin]

Do not use plutonium fuel rods. Sink them 🙂

Use uranium fuel rods. Then convert to plutonium fuel rods, then sink rods

[frosty owl]

Vehicles can use them 😉

[proven sphinx]

i am sinking them ,but when i get to the 97 k mark i will start using them, cause at that point we are almost done with our end goal :)

[fierce ruin]

No no. Always sink them 🙂

[frosty owl]

Plutonium waste piles up really slow anyway

[sand epoch]

Like satisfactory tools?

[prime willow]

Around 5000 quickwire/minute, still not enough for Fuel rod production 🥲

[muted goblet]

Yeah

[frosty owl]

I think they meant if someone has a megafactory planned on tools to share

(Ofc, do correct me if wrong)

[sand epoch]

Ah. That would be slightly easier than mking your own tool.. lol

[frosty owl]

Just like with screws: quickwire made right next to where is consumed leads to the least beltwork ;)
Ideally right behind the machine using it

[sand epoch]

I had one a while back, but didn't keep it after i was done. Doesn't take long to do though..

[frosty owl]

I mean... Just maximize any product and you have a megafactory?

[sand epoch]

Max doesnt work in multi builds.. it just balances everything. I think they want to do a build for a factory that makes everything..?

[frosty owl]

Oh yeah, I was just joking around~

[sand epoch]

I did my everything factory overtop of the dual lake in grass lands.. it feeds my mall.. everything else i do is just for boredom. :)

[muted goblet]

so if i'm just using supercomputers, turbo motors and pressure conversion cube, i should have everything pretty much, right?

i can just add values for all the items from there i guess

for the megafactory that is

[wind spade]

yeah, if you pre-built those. However megafactory is kinda hard to do, I'd recommend against that

[hollow fossil]

can someone help me with the math for which conveyors to use on this smelter setup?

cause in my basic mind it would split 120s, then 60s so after the first split should only need mk1s but thats not accounting for overflow and such which i dont know if im doing the math right

8 smelters in total for the 240 btw

would it just be like subtracting the 30 from smelter input after each split so 240 -> 210 -> 180 etc.?

[noble agate]

You are building a manifold. In my opinion it doesn’t matter much what the belts that lead to machines are. Some people say mk1 will make the startup faster but I’m not sure about that. Saturating the first 6 of 8 will take the same time regardless and only after that the remaining 2 will get the 30/min they need.

[wind spade]

always use max conveyors

[wind spade]

mk1 side belts make the startup actually slower

[hollow fossil]

but why always max belts? wouldnt it be less efficient

[wind spade]

why?

belts don't cost anything to run, so it doesn't matter if they aren't full

[hollow fossil]

hm

i figured since youd want stuff moved at the specific rates to try to match it with what belt would do that

[snow dove]

no not really

[wind spade]

basically the only relevant thing is "do you have enough materials to build all the belts in max mk?" and if the answer is "no", then you should automate more of [material needed to build that mk of a belt]

[snow dove]

manifolds work on overflow so it’ll overflow anyways

[hollow fossil]

yeah im loaded w mats rn so thats not a problem

suppose its time to go crazy w mk4s then

[wind spade]

so just build everything out of max belt. Belts have some issues when you run them on max throughput for long distances anyway

so having some extra throughput never hurts

[hollow fossil]

i appreciate the responses, thanks

[wind spade]

no problem 🙂

some people do use lower mks because they don't like seeing empty belts, but for me personally that doesn't matter.

[vapid nest]

How can you waste 2500 concrete in 1 second? Auto Build Quick Foundation Curves

[ripe quiver]

can someone help me with load balancing this?
we have 7 constructors creating 50 Screws a minute.
we have another constructor making 10 screws a minute (at 20%)
we have 6 assemblers each needing 60 screws a minute.

how can i balance this?
(I only have access up to MK.2 conveyor belts)

[wind spade]

options:

• make 7 assemblers and underclock them to require 50/min (and one more that requires 10/min)

• overclock screw constructors to make 60/min and make just 6 of them

• build a crazy big load balancer

[zenith stirrup]

devide your screw constructors in half, make 2 of them 60% making sure 1 on each half then with the odd constructor come out with a splitter and devide its output you should then have 2 lines of 180 then just 3 way split those lines in your 6 constructors

[gilded widget]

nothing like a good math conversation on a monday

[zenith stirrup]

I think that works out

oh mk2 belts...

ummm unlock mk 3 belts

[ripe quiver]

option 3 looks better. cause i've already balanced the load of all constructors so overclocking or underclocking ruines the load balancing.

i've thought of balancing it with the overflow method or something with a name like that. where you put splitters behind eachother making them overflow to the next one but that takes days to balance.

[wind spade]

not days, just minutes

[ripe quiver]

i want to automate making reinforced iron plates before going to the next phase

30 a minute

[zenith stirrup]

i mean my method will still work but won't be 100% efficient until you upgrade the belts. you will still be balanced and automating until then

[ripe quiver]

well i want 100% efficiency, the first option of greeny looks good now that i think of it. my problem with screws would be fixed and i can fix iron plates with a bit of load seperation before sending them into the assemblers

25 iron plate/m
50 screw/m

[wind spade]

then you're basically building 8 to 6 balancer. There may be some out there, but is basically "split every belt into 6 and merge one of each group together"

however I highly recommend to stop using balancers, they take too much space and planning to do. Manifold (the overflow method you described) or direct feed (the first two options I've suggested) work the same and are easier to do.

Did you "balance" all the red AND green constructors already?

[zenith stirrup]

mine will continue to work and become 100% effecient without the use of shards or reworking

just once you get mk 3 replace the belts and its upgraded

[ripe quiver]

yes i have balanced them

[wind spade]

well... it's up to you 🤷‍♂️ but next time I'd suggest not building machines first before considering logistics

under/overclocking can save you from ugly numbers in a lot of cases (especially when you get later into the game)

[vocal tundra]

Just dont do it to power generators

[frosty owl]

Personally I like to use "adequate" belts for 2 reasons: they make the items "stutter" less and it serves as a cue for me when I get back to the place after a long time. Like "through here I only planned for <120/min because..."

[zenith stirrup]

imo if you are only mk2 and expecting 100% efficiency you shouldn't be building lines with production higher then the belts can handle

[wind spade]

personally I would at least build in a way that no belt is ever maxed

so if it needs 60/min, I'd build mk2

same for 119/min

[frosty owl]

A bit cumbersome, but I wouldn't call this "crazy big":
-Merge 50 + 10
-Split the resulting 60/min in 6
-Merge the resulting 10/min lines with the 50/min lines

[wind spade]

well that's not a 8 to 6 balancer, but works for this case 😉

[frosty owl]

N:Y balancers are for generic cases. Specific cases like this almost always have much simpler solutions than those

[frosty owl]

After all, there do be a "maxed belt" bug... 😩

[wind spade]

depends what the user wants
if they want a solution for a problem given all the machines around work at 100% all the time, then it's correct
if they want a solution for given problem without guarantee that all machines always work (mistakes happen, also game is buggy), then it's not correct

but if they want the first case, simple direct feed/manifold does the job as well as any balancer

(and is usually much easier)

[frosty owl]

That is pretty much always the case though

[wind spade]

hence "don't build balancer" suggestion 🙂

[ripe quiver]

at the end i did it like this :
6 asm at 50 screw/min 25 iron plate/min
1 asm at 60 screw/min 30 iron plate/min

and now its balanced as everything should be

and now i have a power problem, consumption is 200MW over my production

time to go to next project assembly phase

[small pollen]

Cant wait for mk6 belts

So we can get that 1200/m from pure nodes

[river night]

not likely going to happen 🙂

[wind spade]

yeah most likely won't happen. And getting 1200/min is hardly an improvement since the map has tons of resources available and realistically using all or most of them is pretty hard already (you need a beefy PC and tons of free time)

[river night]

they might fix mk3 miners on pure differently, but we dont know. There has been talk about dual outputs as one theoretical fix, but its all just been talk

[wind spade]

dual outputs require dual output priority bug fixed first

[cinder silo]

They would probably need to have a dual output miner to just be 2 miners with their own UI, there is a precedent for such a structure on the hub with its two bio burners.

[vapid nest]

what's the problem with mk3 miners?

[wind spade]

None. Problem is with mk5 belts not doing 780/min over more than one segment

[void gorge]

what if every belt is a m3 regardless

(at least till a better mk belt but)

[wind spade]

Yeah just build largest mk and ez

[void gorge]

that’s what i’m doing now, mk3 is a lot easier to produce than mk2

and i’ve realized mk2 miners compliment mk3 belts nicely

[wind spade]

There's almost never a reason to build lower tier belt

[void gorge]

unless purposely throttling something for some reason

the only reason i’d build low tier is improv foundations to scale mountains but now i got zip liner so

[zenith stirrup]

good to use lower in manifolds carrying lots of stuff

as a side branch

[frosty owl]

For what purpose, @zenith stirrup?

[frosty owl]

I really like the look of lower tier belts. I enjoy seeing the items go around as slow as possible ahahah

[zenith stirrup]

say you have a main line carrying 480 feeding assemblers that require 60ea the branches will just pull what they need and rest will carry forward

[frosty owl]

That's quite a specific scenario ahah
Outside of those, though, slower side-belts mean slower full-time for the manifold ^^

[unborn ermine]

I have one really weird example that would be workable, but I dont have much to it besides the pull.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553550313533997057/1002101524199133248/unknown.png

[zenith stirrup]

or you have a max 780 line and you want to build a factory the only needs so much you just split what you would need

[unborn ermine]

Just imagine if that was a manifolded machine system

Thats the "line" mentioned, plastic being the high throughput

Assembler would be the "manifold"

[zenith stirrup]

eventually if your math is correct manifolds should back up and everything will be fine but if you pull less off the belt at the start each machine will start much quicker then just the regular rolling start

its really a preference thing

[frosty owl]

Argh... Pulling exact numbers off a high-speed belt has its own issues
Things can get finicky if the items aren't coming in a steady enough stream

[unborn ermine]

In this instance im over producing, plastic at the source and sinking overflow, so it plays nice.

[zenith stirrup]

but you pulling off a splitter so if the belt isn't saturated from the start it won't really change the outcome

[frosty owl]

Eg: trying to "smart split" 60/min from the output of some Pure Iron refineries lead to "holes" on the MK1 belt due to the refineries outputting "clumps" of items.

In other words: the 3-item buffer of smart splitters isn't big enough to cover all scenarios

[frosty owl]

Yeah, I'm just being extra precise, just in case ^^

[wind spade]

If you need exactly 60/min for side machines, then yeah, building mk1 side belts can improve fill time. But if you need e.g. 30/min for machines, then building mk1 side belts will result in slower fill times

[unborn ermine]

With the image I posted I went for full boar speed(that I had at the time) for belts.
Because the setup pictured was for squeezing the last bit of resources out of an immediate area, so the values were smaller and funkier.

Something like, less than 10 plastic and around 30 iron from that build.

[zenith stirrup]

but in a manifold system if you just use splitters and max belt that first machine will always get half of the main line whereas if you limit it no matter if the requirement is under 60 it will only take max 60/s off the main and the rest will flow to the other machines faster

[unborn ermine]

very specific situation that gets resolved fast

[frosty owl]

Case in point: "just" having a mk1 belt from the programmable splitter to the merger does not assure a steady output of 60/min here.
Workaround: make the first half of the belt MK2 and the second half MK1. Practically, the MK2 works as an "extended buffer" for the programmable splitter and the MK1 chokes the throughput as needed.

[unborn ermine]

like most debates on here, the belt thing falls under "splitting hairs" in my books.
Like pictured, it has uses, but general use is just more effort for the same thing imho.

(belt thing being lower tier belt at first split in manifold)

[wind spade]

If you use lower mks of belts, then more machines will run at the start, so less items are actually filling machines, so it will take longer to fill

Trust me, I've done the math and simulations

[frosty owl]

Dunno if needed, but I confirm the above. Plenty of discussions went over this already

[wind spade]

This is the fill progress on example manifold. Red line is mk5 side belts, blue line is mk1 side belts. X axis is time, Y axis is production. As you can see, while blue starts with more production, red fills to the max quicker

@zenith stirrup ^

[ember fractal]

Seems mostly negligible.
What do most people prefer? Mk5 everywhere, or Mk5 for main line with minimum necessary speed belts for feeding machinery?

I always went with the latter, but might change it up for simplicity sake

I wonder about pc performance on saves where every belt is Mk5 vs. like half/half with mk1 belts

Talking about saves with a lot of big end game factories

[snow dove]

Oil to MW ratio depending on recipe!
using this "To create 2,000MW of power 60m3/min of Turbofuel is needed or 160m3/min of Fuel is needed." -turbofuel wiki
Fuel recipe: 3oil/2fuel 3oil=25MW
Residual Fuel
Plastic: 3oil/1HOR 6oil/2fuel 6oil=25MW
Rubber: 3oil/2HOR 3oil/2fuel 3oil=25MW
Polymer Resin: 3 oil/2 HOR 3oil/2fuel 3oil=25MW
Heavy Oil Residue: 3oil/4HOR 6oil/8fuel 6oil=100MW
Diluted fuel
Plastic: 3oil/1HOR 3oil/2fuel 3oil=25MW
Rubber: 3oil/2HOR 3oil/4fuel 3oil=50MW
Polymer Resin: 3 oil/2 HOR 3oil/4fuel 3oil=50MW
Heavy Oil Residue: 3oil/4HOR 3oil/8fuel 3oil=100MW
Turbo fuel to MW ratio using Turbofuel recipe and above recipes!
Fuel recipe: 3oil/2fuel 9oil/5turbofuel 18oil/166.66MW
Residual Fuel
Plastic: 3oil/1HOR 6oil/2fuel 30oil/8.33turbofuel 30oil/277.77MW
Rubber: 3oil/2HOR 3oil/2fuel 15oil/8.33turbofuel 15oil/277.77MW
Polymer Resin: 3 oil/2 HOR 3oil/2fuel 15oil/8.33turbofuel 15oil/277.77MW
Heavy Oil Residue: 3oil/4HOR 6oil/8fuel 30oil/33.33turbofuel 30oil/1111.11
Diluted fuel
Plastic: 3oil/1HOR 3oil/2fuel 15oil/8.33turbofuel 15oil/277.77MW
Rubber: 3oil/2HOR 3oil/4fuel 15oil/16.66turbofuel 15oil/555.55MW
Polymer Resin: 3 oil/2 HOR 3oil/4fuel 15oil/16.66turbofuel 15oil/555.55MW
Heavy Oil Residue: 3oil/4HOR 3oil/8fuel 15oil/33.33turbofuel 15oil/1111.11MW
(Any decimals are infinitely repeating)

probably fits here better than #design-and-architecture

worst fuel method: 1oil/8.33MW
Best fuel method: 1oil/33.33MW
Worst turbofuel method: 1oil/~9.25MW
Best Turbofuel method: 1oil/~74MW

i just realized i spent around about an hour doing this

instead of working on the thing i need to work on in satisfactory

good job me!

[unborn ermine]

Now you just need infographics for the people afraid of words.

But yeah nice

[frosty owl]

I doubt it makes any noticeable difference if any at all, but using MK5 belts leads to having less items "in transit" between machines

Btw, I prefer slow belts, simply because visuals

[snow dove]

idk how i would even make that into an infographic

i could definitely format it better tho

[unborn ermine]

Tools might help a bit.

Similar to the format some of the wiki uses for comparisons.

At the very least, it would "section up" recipes and give general ideas and examples.
Like for instance, using a 300/min oil pipe for each.

[polar thicket]

So what is currently the top tier end game thing to craft is it still Turbo motors or is there something else now?

[unborn ermine]

Turbo motors got more complex, still "up there" but I think there is similar tier goodies

[sand epoch]

Wow..u been gone a while..

[polar thicket]

Yeah U2 or U3 lol

[unborn ermine]

U3 motors was the end goal

[sand epoch]

The employee of the planet stuff is your end game atm

[polar thicket]

The Pipe update

[unborn ermine]

space elevator phase 4 if you want to look it up

[polar thicket]

So what the 4 do yall think is the hardest to craft ADS actually seem like alot to me.

[unborn ermine]

Assembly director system is reeeeeally simple

[sand epoch]

I don't rem the item, but it needs lots of copper powder..

[unborn ermine]

I could start making 1/min right now with little effort on my part

[unborn ermine]

Nuclear pasta

[polar thicket]

The pasta is the hardest?

Kinda makes me happy since its the most visually pleasing

[unborn ermine]

You need to make the pressure cube, which is basically a HUGE chain of all the modular frames.

[sand epoch]

Largest rss hog... hard is relative

[polar thicket]

Oh I see

[unborn ermine]

Here is a production chain for 1/min pressure cubes.
no alt recipes

[polar thicket]

Jesus

[cinder silo]

All I'd need to do is route rcu & fused frames, I have enough slack in my production chain to stores 😄

[sand epoch]

Yes.. end game items only take up massive space if you are doing a dedicated factory for them

[cinder silo]

I'm sorely tempted to do just that just to have a particle accelerator in the main base again making nuclear pasta.

[sand epoch]

Some day I'll get back to my dedicated one.. was doing all 4 items 4/m. .. its like 80% done.. for points

[cinder silo]

My entire warehouse sorting level overflows most items in the game to sink because it's full.

[sand epoch]

Mine used to.. but I moved and sunk everything

Had 2 isc of everything

[cinder silo]

I might still need to build an oil boosting facility to over supply my plastic refinery though, even though I fixed all the major flaws, I still see the odd yellow light and it's aggrevating.

Got 4 isc full before the warehouse sinks.

I have the sorting level mostly completed, it looks bland though.

See what I mean, quite bland.

[sand epoch]

Nor everything needs to be art :)

[cinder silo]

The mixed belts down there would give many nightmares.

[sand epoch]

Every storage has mix belts, lol

[cinder silo]

Just about every item used for building enters one of four main feed belts, biomass & ammo use a fifth dedicated feed at the far end of the storage.

I have mixed belts in the major end game item factories, turbo motors, super computers/rcu, fused frames and on down, I put a whole lot of time in to the main base after the initial demolition.

I even collected the golden nut & built a display case for it.

[sand epoch]

The nut is still about 70 out of reach

[cinder silo]

I'm not getting more than one, I had to have that nearby my hub at least.

I still need to build a temp plutonium plant to get one unit of plutonium waste to stick in a display case.

[vapid nest]

Time to go to bed but leaving the game running overnight as to let storages fill up again and generate points because I still need 150HMF and 25 Computers and I'd rather buy them with points than having to juggle inventories

[cinder silo]

Ouch, pity I couldn't just draw the needed mats for you from my stores, I have both in abundance 😦

[vapid nest]

Wouldn't be fun to just get everything easily right? 🙂

[cinder silo]

True, I am glad to have my main base rebuilt and producing again.

[vapid nest]

10 fuel gens for today is more than I thought I would accomplish

And ik 10 fuel gens isn't much but you see.... Architecture takes time:

[cinder silo]

I dynamited the whole thing last year, it took until last week to get it back up and running again.

[cinder silo]

My old base before I blew it up.

[vapid nest]

Mars Base

[cinder silo]

Interior of the old ironworks.

[vapid nest]

T I G H T

[cinder silo]

The new base 🙂

[vapid nest]

Ok that's an upgrade

[cinder silo]

Old super computer factory, vs the new one that also makes regular computers and rcus.

Oops the bottom image is incorrect lmao, thats rotors stators and motors.

[vapid nest]

W I N D O W S

[cinder silo]

I suck at cataloguing my images.

This one is the computer/super & rcu haha.

[vapid nest]

Smart splitters are your best friends when it comes to Manufacturer Manifolds

[cinder silo]

The low throughput didn't justify the number of input belts I had in the old plant.

I even reduced my quartz processing from two to one factory and mixed output, smart splitters get the stuff where its going so why have more belts than needed.

[vapid nest]

I remember when I redid my starter base, I was like WOAH put everything on MK3 belts and smart split them into storage

What a time save that was and also made less spaghet

[cinder silo]

My starter base got as far as it ever could even with retrofits, I had to come up with something new, that's why I took inspiration from Sevrahn & Vencam and mixed belted a hell of a lot of stuff.

[vapid nest]

The time will come where I need to scale up base parts as well. But not now. Now is bedtime

[cinder silo]

The only thing I haven't sorted again yet is the planned ammunition tower, I took a break from factory building to address aesthetics.

Alright, sleep well 🙂

[vapid nest]

You too

[vapid nest]

From Spaghetti to Cannelloni

[cinder silo]

❤️

[cinder silo]

😁

[hollow fossil]

can anyone talk to me about calculating the throughput of trains? the incoming and outgoing transfer rates dont seem right and change all the time

[cinder silo]

I noticed that with my only train, I'm looking at the source and my production isn't doing what it should be, yellow lights keep showing.

[hollow fossil]

well i have the opposite problem, i have 2 pure nodes with mk2s producing 480 ingots p/m and the train is bringing 660 p/m

[cinder silo]

Found a problem but can't explain it, the refinery isn't backed up nor starved, it's idling anyway.

Hmm, might be water of all things, I notice when it empties the whole thing snarls up.

[hazy saffron]

Wiki has all the info on that math

But you can generally ignore the throughout counters on train stations

I've seen them be correct like twice

[cinder silo]

Isn't water, the refineries are just going offline for the hell of it.

[unborn ermine]

Does it happen when the extractors fill up completely?
Ive had a small pipe system seize for some reason when an extractor decided to fill its buffer.

The fix in my case was proper fluid management with a VIP

[cinder silo]

I turned the extractors up from 133.3333% to 140% and just relied on the vip to keep things going, but I'm still seeing the lead refineries yellow light without cause, the water system has WAY more available, the bauxite end is injected due to the inability of 780 belts to carry 800ppm due to an earlier mistake.

Worse still I can't get to the stalled refinery in time to check it out properly which is aggrevating.

Urgh this is stupid, I check each stalled refinery, both feeds are full and ready to go, the output is empty, as shown in the above picture, It CANNOT be stalled in that state, yet it is.

[vapid gorge]

Nice 😄 I'd use Area Actions to copy paste those floors though XD

[frosty owl]

It's definetly water

That screenshots says so at least

Btw, you're not flying around with the hoverpack right...?

[unborn ermine]

Finally got my first aluminum plant makin ingots smoothly(see the pretty gaps in the miner 300/min inputs? )
I messed up in a few spots, but eventually got it running smooth with very little rebuilding.

Forgot how to do math and realised it was going to be a total of 750/min + extractor water comming back in, so I needed two VIPs for each side.
1500/min ingots for my first real aluminum plant.

[frosty owl]

I appreciate aiming for 1500 instead of 1560

[unborn ermine]

I plan to use all of it too 😄
Almost forgot to add in fluid tanks in the mix, would have messed me up so bad

[vapid gorge]

1560 or go home 😛

[unborn ermine]

Planning from ingots to at least RCUs and such before I need to make another steel works on this side of the world for infused frames.

I mean, I technically coooould go for 2000/min ingots... I just want to keep the silica for now, I dont want too much trouble

[vapid gorge]

I don't think I'll ever use the basic recipe. too fiddly

[unborn ermine]

Im right next to the two normal quartz nodes, but thats for oscillators and RCUs

Maybe some other stuff I might have forgotten.

Some nice point jumps while I get my new power plant sorted at least now.

[vapid nest]

@cinder silo 8 Tickets...

[cinder silo]

I'm unsure how when there is 2x the water sitting in the input, but that places water system has pissed me off for the final time, when I get back home later the whole thing is getting torn out and replaced with an open loop 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

The only way to make sure all machines are not idling due to lack of water is to actually "catch" them idling and making sure they have an inventory full of water when they do so

My doubts are due to your previous screenshot, that showed water issues

[vapid nest]

You mean priming?

[vapid gorge]

For example this is my final plan telling me how much silica I'll need @hexed ruin https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=X7seiDKLbuPS8siUzyJr

[frosty owl]

No, I meant something like: watch the machines go, spot a yellow light, reach it before it goes green, make sure the internal buffers are in the state you expect them to be

[ember fractal]

Anyone use nuclear-based fuel for their truck transports?
I know it's not recommended because of radiation, but has anyone actually tried and stuck with it?

[deft lichen]

it's too silly, batteries are more practical

[ember fractal]

I would rather use batteries for drones. I think a uranium rod can fuel a truck for like a week lol

[deft lichen]

batteries can be produced in large amounts pretty easily and their consumption is very low

[void gorge]

soo 8 coal generators can be fed with 3-4 water extractors and a mk2 miner on coal pretty well yes?

[deft lichen]

8 gens with exactly 3 extractors and 120 coal

[void gorge]

hm

[deft lichen]

mk2 produce double as mk1, so mk1 pure or mk2 normal suffice

[void gorge]

im getting capped on power so i want to expand my initial 8 generators, 3 extractors, but i have like 3 coal nodes in the area next to water, and got mk2 miners and mk3 belts unlocked

[void gorge]

thats actually exactly what i need ty

mk3 belts will feed all 8 no prob ye? how many generators could mk3 feed?

[deft lichen]

270/15=18

[void gorge]

oh nice ok

[deft lichen]

but 16 is better, math works better

[void gorge]

ok so i can still use a single coal node for 2 sets of 8 generators

[deft lichen]

don't forget that you can overclock miners

[void gorge]

right

[deft lichen]

mk2 normal at 200% or mk2 pure at 100% each make enough for 16 generators

[void gorge]

i have 4 normal coal in a tight row lol

tho ones being used for iron atm but a pure is across the pond so i should be set, might use the pure one for the main power station just to be safe?

[cinder silo]

I opened the taps somewhat on the nearby water extractors and it showed the vip junctions there actually not working, all twelve of them, I'm just going to build 64 coal generators, expand the fresh water inputs and be done with it, the whole thing has been an epic failure and I just want this thing working properly before I move on.

[oblique hollow]

may be the ol hoverpack issue?
unequip reequip?

machines, at all times, need double the minimum amount of resources in them to work at 100%

[cinder silo]

It's unequipped at all, I'm rebuilding from the ground up.

[void gorge]

and so it begins

[deft lichen]

lookin good

[wind spade]

Not really. There's a duplicating bug with splitters that sometimes happens on save load, which makes pretty much all sushi belts vulnerable to backing up from extra items (unless overflow sink is employed)

Ignoring that bug, for your case you could probably just merge 2 belts, other 2 belts and then the 2 merged belts

Personally I'd try to avoid mixing belts as much as possible

I feel it just brings tons of issues with no real advantage

Especially for storage where the rates may change as you add more stuff

There's only 33 items worth storing (that you can produce)

Excluding ammo, shards and consumables

Also I don't feel like that many belts are issue since in most cases they will just be short to nearest train station

Why would you store space elevator parts

Several shorter trains to several smaller stations

[frosty owl]

I tried, but stopped as the trucks didn't take the minimum fuel required as expected but a whole stack of it 🙃

[waxen flame]

connecting multiple biomass burners together using power poles makes the max volts it can handle higher right?

so then theoretically i could stack my biosmass burners all together essentially making a power grid

[sand epoch]

That is how its done.. yes

[waxen flame]

nice

unfortunately i cant destroy the ones on the hub

[sand epoch]

For all generators

Hub ones are permanent

[waxen flame]

dang

well i can still connect them to the other biomass burners through a series of power poles

[sand epoch]

Yup. Biomass is temporary (and sucks. Lol) till u hit coal power.

[waxen flame]

yeah

btw around when do i get coal power

like what tier

[unborn ermine]

3

[waxen flame]

oh ok

[sand epoch]

.. t3 or 4.. i dont remember.

[waxen flame]

oh boy my base is starting to come together

[unborn ermine]

its the first of 3 iirc

[waxen flame]

i made a 3 layer box for all my contructors and i call it "the onion"

[unborn ermine]

that or the first is steel

[waxen flame]

i got solid biofuel

do biomass burners use that

and is it better than normal biomass

[sand epoch]

Yes and yes

[waxen flame]

nice

[sand epoch]

Its also used in the chainsaw..

[waxen flame]

and now that i have a chainsaw i can get tons of it

hopefully

i havent actually made it but i will

also this may be a dumb question but i wanna make sure but if i say have an assembler making 4 rotors a minute and have a splitter going in two different locations it will split those 4 rotors per minute 2 and 2 if i only have two locations right?

[candid stirrup]

Yeah splitters split things in half / thirds

If you got a splitter with two outputs it divides in half, splitter with three divides in thirds.

[sand epoch]

The only time they deviate from the half/thirds, is if a target belt is full, then it sends it all to w/e is open

[candid stirrup]

Yeah

[waxen flame]

ok

[candid stirrup]

When ya got overflow

If you got 3 and one is full it splits in half

[waxen flame]

because i am making a max efficiency refined metal plate producer and a max efficiency rotor producer based on a miner mk.1 on pure iron deposits and i forgot about the space elevator parts so im just gonna split each of those two assemblers in have for another assembler for the space elevator parts

[candid stirrup]

For space elevator only bring the parts you need into the assembler

[waxen flame]

i know

[candid stirrup]

I have a huge rotor thing that is on two pure resource nodes

It'll be huge for you, and hopefully you don't run into stuff like diverging 270/m to 240/m and 30/m

[waxen flame]

im gonna have a rotor assembler on one iron node and a reinforced iron plate assembler on another iron node with some spare screw constructors left over and im just gonna split to the two assemblers for a space elev part assembler

that way im still getting my resources and space elev parts

[waxen flame]

also i doubt space is a problem with what i put together here

i call it the onion

(cause it has layers)

its not finished yet

i gotta power on the bottom layer because im running out of plates

[cinder silo]

One huge caveat of integrating everything early on is you wind up having to blow it all up as better tech is added.

[waxen flame]

yeah thats true

[candid stirrup]

Space isn't a problem neccessarily but I like to keep things as compact as possible. It's better if you want one central area

[candid stirrup]

Very true

[waxen flame]

but i might not have to because instead of blowing it up i could just add new layers for more space and production

but how does it look?

[cinder silo]

This was once my main base, I retrofitted it as best I could but in the end I reached for the demolisher 🤣

My new home complete with fully populated auto-warehouse, produces anything I need 🙂

[waxen flame]

oh ok

[candid stirrup]

Another thing is modding but I don't reccomend it unless you've finished the game once or twice over

A bit easier to handle, a bit harder at times though.

But yeah, late game you destroy a lot to rebuild a better thing

[waxen flame]

my second layer is gonna look something like this (i know its a bunch of rectangles and lines but its the best i could put together rn) (big squares are assemblers and the first two squares are the pure iron nodes)

i can give further explanation if needed

although the right side of that diagram is gonna have to be on the top

[candid stirrup]

Above all else, verticality

[waxen flame]

one thing i think i will keep for the entirety of my playthrough is the first layer

the first layer is put together really well

and it doesnt really need changing i dont think

btw everyone else calculated how many smelters and constructors they needed to get the max resources per minute based on one miner right or am i just crazy

[cinder silo]

Just leave yourself enough space if nothing else, as your playthrough evolves you find better ways of doing things and sometimes you will get the itch to retrofit 🙂

[waxen flame]

like by that i mean for example it takes 3 smelters hooked up to 3 constructors to get the most iron plates per minute from a mine mk 1 on a pure iron node

[candid stirrup]

As soon as I got foundations and stable concrete production I made everything on foundation

[waxen flame]

so am i just crazy

[cinder silo]

This game is all about the maths when you start pushing.

[waxen flame]

true

[cinder silo]

If you think you're crazy you should see how well my save crashes peoples pcs due to insufficient ram 😄

[waxen flame]

i just wanted to know if i was crazy for having 3 smelters and 3 constructors for 1 iron node

just to make plates

[cinder silo]

Not really, some people when they get the mark 5 belts end up with dozens of machines making one thing.

[candid stirrup]

I got 32GB fight me

[waxen flame]

i got i think 16gb

and im on a gaming laptop

[cinder silo]

My save causes satisfactory to reserve like 27Gb of ram.

[waxen flame]

i think 3 smelters and 3 constructors is the best for making plates

[cinder silo]

Yay for ram usage 🤣

[waxen flame]

i have mk 3 belts unlocked im just wating till i get a TON of reinforced plates to replace everything with mk 2 belts

[heady cargo]

Just making a few crystal oscillators

[cinder silo]

I built a refinery in a similar style, worst mistake I've made though because it's a nightmare with no obvious cause of problems.

[calm shell]

vertical buildings with pipes sounds horrible, but thats exactly what i'm about to start with my computer factory

[heady cargo]

Remember gravity is your friend. build with the start at the top of your factory and let it all flow down

[cinder silo]

All the refineries are fed from above, but even after I resolved the head lift issues, the oil extractors keep idling.

[waxen flame]

oscilators and refinerys? you know what i dont even wanna ask

[heady cargo]

or maybe you would like to make just a few circuit boards

[heady cargo]

sounds a little on the low side for my build style

[waxen flame]

well i did the math and one miner mk1 was making 120 per minute and the smelters and contructors on plates were making 30 per minute so just divide the miner into 3 sections

[cinder silo]

Maybe generate a little electricity ?

[heady cargo]

Already Did

LOL

[cinder silo]

I built most of my power stores in their own facility, 72 rooms just like this one.

[waxen flame]

WOAH THAT LOOKS COOL

[heady cargo]

Yes but how did you generate it

[cinder silo]

888 turbo fuel generators & 100 nukes.

and the geothermals.

[candid stirrup]

@feral glade
Total produced:
Coal: 600/m
Water: 900m3/m

Required per gen (OC'd at 250%)
30.35coal/m
91m3/m Water
MW per gen: 151.8MW

Required for 16:
Coal: 485.6/m
Water: 1456m3/m
MW Produced: 2428.8 MW

Required for 6:
Coal: 182.1/m
Water: 546m3/m
MW Produced: 910.8 MW

There's the calculation for your coal plant

[calm shell]

holy.....
I'm still just sitting over here with my 32 coal generators, barely making my way through phase 3

[waxen flame]

i havent even gotten to coal

[cinder silo]

I've just built 64 coal gens just for the sole purpose of taking waste water from my bauxite refinery because the pipeworks were a complete disaster,

[heady cargo]

That is a bit bigger than what I went for

[vapid gorge]

is that a top down layout?

[waxen flame]

man the stuff you can do in this game

[cinder silo]

My nuclear fuel rod production room.

[waxen flame]

yes but think of the right side being on a floor above the left

[vapid gorge]

fair enough, was going to suggest building them vertically. Having more complex stuff moving upward and then one link to the big north thing combining it all