off-topic-tech

[ivory rampart]

but i dont trust the pc not to forget everything i have done

i have to keep it on

[twin dew]

You kept doing that during this whole conversation multiple times, ignoring previous parts of conversation and returning to your starting arguments.

[dire igloo]

low INT high WIS

[pure karma]

I tried linux after you guys insisted on it to backup my claims and all of them got verified

same for firefox

[ivory rampart]

low int, low wis, low strength, low dex type of build

how wouldi work out, i dont trust gyms

[charred relic]

I have a -6 contitution penalty at the moment

[dire igloo]

have you ever heard of these things called "confirmation bias" and "self-fulfilling prophecy"?

[ivory rampart]

what are his claims on linux

[dire igloo]

low charisma too cuz after five minutes of talking to you, people want nothing else but to strangle you to death

[ivory rampart]

what am i reading

linux uses an easy to understand folder structure

[twin dew]

He, as total Linux noob, tried to install and use ArchLinux.
With Ubuntu he couldn't find how to install software in the GUI side.

[ivory rampart]

and gaming performance sure as hell isnt 1/3 of what it would be on windows

[twin dew]

From distro repos.

[ivory rampart]

steam deck would not be a product if the performance was that bad

[dire igloo]

but see, what if all you play is Valorant, Fortnite, Destiny 2 and TFT?

[ivory rampart]

pretty sure all of these wont even launch with their kernel level anticheats

not sure if they all use one

but you get the idea

[dire igloo]

none of those work on Linux, exactly
Fortnite and Destiny 2 could work if the devs weren't lazy fucks (Easy Anti Cheat has Linux support, but needs to be enabled by the game's devs)

TFT and Valorant both use Riot's Vanguard which Riot has made very clear will never receive Linux support

[tough owl]

gemini.google/overview/gemini-in-chrome/?hl=en yippee

[twin dew]

Partly because on Linux, they cannot protect their anticheat from edited and recompiled kernel.

[dire igloo]

also cuz it's too much effort for too little gain

[twin dew]

And IIRC they can not easily have anywhere near same level of "anti-cheat" as on Windows Kernel driver.

[ivory rampart]

blatant lie.
the nanosecond they consider it profitable, they will support linux

riot is too greedy not to

[sterile plinth]

thats the issue

everything would work on linux if its devs cared to implement it, which a lot of times for big games they dont

ive used it in the past, the gaming experience is just not that amazing

[twin dew]

Point was to just include the specific external bits Linux version, and allow Proton do the rest.

Not do native Linux.

[dire igloo]

well yeah - but that's assuming it will ever be profitable for Riot to cater to linux users

which was part of their statement, the "never" was an exaggeration on my behalf

[ivory rampart]

im not saying it will.
but IF, then they would literally break the laws of nature to implement it at an instance.
riot games is so greedy that i cant put it into fitting words

[charred relic]

So glad I got this monitor now...

[sterile plinth]

mfs will always have an xkcd for every scenario

[charred relic]

https://tenor.com/view/nodding-moon-creepy-gif-14222607

[languid gulch]

i hate that gif

[pure karma]

dident try... i did

[tough owl]

the wiki has answers

[ivory rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LI-1Zdk-Ys

linx is slower in gaming?

[twin dew]

Install and USE.
You installed it, and then tried to replace your Windows system 1:1, weren't satisfied in very short order, and removed.

[ivory rampart]

(for nvidia it is, because they refuse to open source drivers)

[pure karma]

i used ubuntu so this is completely irelivant

[ivory rampart]

no its not, you used something that isnt made for gaming and then got upset its not good for gaming.

why is this lawnmower so bad at trimming my hedge!!!!

[twin dew]

IIRC with Ubuntu you never found how to install stuff from the distro package repository.

[pure karma]

what stuff

the only installer is for nvidia drivers only 1 of which works

[ivory rampart]

ubuntu has a GUI way of installing sofware

[twin dew]

From Ubuntu maintained repository of precompiled programs, drivers and other packages.

[pure karma]

yea the store with nothing good in it

[twin dew]

No, that was different thing.

Point was that there is that distro repo where even those Nvidia GPU drivers live in.

Not the Nvidias own installer script.

You succesfully AFAIK used the Arch version, but not the Ubuntu version.

On Ubuntu you only used the flatpack software "store", not the distro repo.

[pure karma]

i used ubuntu as much as i could with the limited software available aka browsers and thats it

[ivory rampart]

?????

thats just plain wrong

there is plenty of software available

[twin dew]

Like I said, he never found how to install distro repo stuff, only flatpac stuff.

[pure karma]

none of them work and whe few apps that do are absolutely terible

[ivory rampart]

a lot of stuff you can also just install with a .deb from the internet

not that its the best way, but you can

[twin dew]

And as that flatpak (finally correct spelling) stuff is much more limited and is for just certain user facing software in general, the availability was lacking.

As most of things still live in the distro .deb repo.

[pure karma]

i probably would be able to use ubuntu a bit more if the computer im tryign to use it on wasent constantly in shambles because i keep getting scammed on replacement hardware

[ivory rampart]

[twin dew]

And back then he just wouldn't accept there was another software source in there besides the one he had found.
And I don't use Ubuntu and their own documentation is almost completely missing, so I couldn't provide good instructions where that actual distro repo GUI was.

[pure karma]

i know what you mean and its not what you think

theres 2 updaters

one of them being the nvidia driver updater

and the other being the app updater

[tough owl]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-comendo-picoca-gif-9669437860846841235

[pure karma]

the actual os updates are just merged in the app updater for no reasson

[ivory rampart]

thats bad, why?

[pure karma]

and then all the broken custom drivers are in the driver updater

[twin dew]

Because both are just packages in the distro repo?
There is NO difference between them.
And the actual Nvidia drivers ALSO live there, no idea what that Nvidia driver updater actually was.

[pure karma]

cause its hidden and nerver tells you there in there

[tough owl]

me when all it is sudo apt update && apt upgrade to update all apps and nvidia drivers

[ivory rampart]

so you wouldnt look for "updates" when trying to update things?
is what what you are saying?

wdym hidden, it shows up when you look for updates

[pure karma]

look where???

[ivory rampart]

the search bar?

[pure karma]

there isent one

[tough owl]

there legit is

[ivory rampart]

there is lmao

[pure karma]

theres one in the settings but the os updates arent in there because it would make too much common sense

[ivory rampart]

its so joever

[tough owl]

the search that is being refered to is in the APP menu

where all your app icons live

[tough owl]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1055289309604876330/1215056102706643054/x6yEJYy.gif

[ivory rampart]

"there is no search"

[tough owl]

Type to search

[ivory rampart]

i have never used ubuntu, but let me make a wild guess

its this icon, and then it shows the search

ok thanks for embeding that discord

[pure karma]

yea that opens that menu

but that dosent change the fact that the search bar is an app search

[ivory rampart]

and you can type update in the search bar?

[twin dew]

But basically with Ubuntu, MagicZ never found how to install distro packages.
And then IIRC tries to use the Nvidia site driver install script to install GPU drivers, instead of the distro packages.

[pure karma]

it wont just magically find the update INSIDE the app

[ivory rampart]

you mean it cant find this?

[twin dew]

And just complained how limited the selection inside that flatpak store was.

And then gave up.

[ivory rampart]

"update"

[twin dew]

But I'm off to bed now.

[pure karma]

i complained that the provided command did fuck all 🤷‍♂️ and then stopped caring because the preinstalled one was good enough

[ivory rampart]

"good enough"

yet you say it was bad

[pure karma]

good enough is a stretch considering it barely did basic dispaly driver things

[ivory rampart]

you called it that

[pure karma]

its good enough comparitively when the stardard for a dispaly driver gets set to as much as 3 seconds of display latency by default

not because its any good compared to anything competent

[ivory rampart]

thats not even a thing

[safe trench]

its real.

https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1925241279849374090

DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm)

First teaser for ‘SKIBIDI TOILET’

Directed by Michael Bay.

X · May 21, 2025, 5:24 PM

[sterile plinth]

375 WATTS??????????????

[tough owl]

'tis glorious

(its two gpus on the board)

[sterile plinth]

oh god

no wonder they were selling it 14$ on ebay

[sterile plinth]

this has to have been an absolute titan back then, i think its performance is like 2 times that of the r7 300 series which were released 2 years later

anyway im skeptical, even though we're talking about emulated games from 2010 will these old ass cards with 1gb vram be enough

[twin dew]

Because that Nvidias script was meant for older Ubuntu versions.
Right command would have been something like "apt install nvidia-gpu-open".
Or doing the same thing via the distro repo GUI which I tried to get you to find.

Ok, wrong name, and Ubuntu also now has ubuntu-drivers tool (and GUI version) to autoselect and install.

I found Ubuntu Servers documentation, which is good.
While the Ubuntus consumer documentation was almost nonexistent.

[charred relic]

They have official documentation for server? 😄

Never even looked...

There's so much in the way of user generated tutorials and how-tos

[dire igloo]

UwUntu > Ubuntu

[twin dew]

Because good official documentation is much more complete, gives all the various options, and tells the differences in the ways to do things etc.

[charred relic]

man is a thing 🙂

We should have never stopped pounding RTFM into peoples head heh

[twin dew]

Different use case.
In this case for example: https://documentation.ubuntu.com/server/how-to/graphics/install-nvidia-drivers/

[charred relic]

That used to be a common response on IRC... and they were right. It's all literally right there

Yeah that's where you use a tutorial/howto

It has worked for me every single time with stuff like that.

[twin dew]

Yeah, but to use man, you first need to know which command you want to use.

[charred relic]

Other complex systmes you aren't familiar with that are documented even are best left to a howto since there are a lot of variables involved with which software you can use for each function

like with a mail server...

[twin dew]

And the previous time I tried to find Ubuntu help, was to locate that distro repo/apt GUI for MagicZ.

[charred relic]

There isn't even any one way to do that...

[twin dew]

Just the name and where to find it.

Which in Debian documentation is part of basic install documentations "next steps" part.

Telling how to start finding and installing rest of programs you might want.

[charred relic]

digital ocean has tons of great stuff... as far as documentation for ubuntu

well not so much docs but showing you how at least

Doesn't take much documentation to beat what I cut my teeth with lol

My first "real" computer had DOS 2.11 which had a physical manual that was good enough I guess. There wasn't that much to DOS itself so there wasn't a ton to document. You did learn about things like batch files.

And the commands all had a /?, not as good as man but similar.

(mostly all)

I miss the sounds of extra clicky hard drives, floppy drives and a modem connecting

The big BBS in this area had 40 dial in lines and I saw his modem rack... pretty insane lol

haha one of the old galactiboards

One slot, bunch of modems. They had a box variant too that housed inteneral style modems.

We had networks... worldwide. Just not the internet. It was stuff like FIDONet or ECHOnet

And it's so simple and silly by modern standards but... we had QWK... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWK_(file_format)

[twin dew]

Just 8 serial port card.
As each port only actually needs 3 (SW flow control) or 5 pins (HW flow control)

[charred relic]

you would d/l a new packet that had all the new messages since the last one, you could then clear the phone line and read/replied to messages then connect and upload your packet that would get spread aroudn the net

"just 8 serial port card"

keep in mind the era pal lol

ISP's weren't even a thing, they weren't stocking up on them for sure, these were hobbyists slapping them in average machines at home

[twin dew]

Point was just that that card isn't really something "special", just implementation of common thing 8x on same card, with then one connector to split that out, as most of the 25-pin connectors at other end are not actually needed.

And even on the 9-pin COM port, half the pins are not really needed.

[charred relic]

It also wasn't super common for somebody to happen to have a T1 or better to the home

and they may not have been... wired

[twin dew]

General explanation for others, so everyone doesn't have to try to look what that thing actually is.

[charred relic]

unless i had one in front of me again i couldn't tell you

the pins physically being present means absolutely nothing

[twin dew]

All the pins on that 9-pin version have uses, they just aren't important.
And that 25-pin version has more than 9 pins in use, but again the functions for most of the pins aren't critical.

[charred relic]

The number of people that cares about any of that was about 0 heh

*cared

Like most products we were just buying something that solved a problem

In fact even doing that kind of research into the hows would have taken way too much effort

since... it didn't matter at all

[twin dew]

And I was just trying to make quick explanation about what that specific card is and how it can work for people who don't know details about how modems were connected.

[charred relic]

Mostly what those things were doing was allowing you to have enugh IRQ's to even had that many modems really

that was the "magic" part

[twin dew]

6.25 pins per serial port in that card side connector.
So almost certainly serial with HW flow control (SW flow control really wasn't viable back then anyways), with possibly the Ring Indicator pin too connected as the sixth pin.

[charred relic]

that grid can all be modems... 256 lines

plus the local conole could login directly

What was amazing is you could have a crapton of dialin lines on very VERY modest hardware, even a 386

TBBS was even more lean

MBBS had a huge draw though, MajorMUD. MUDs were big and even though that was kind of a "generic" one is was fun. Drew tons of users.

[mental oriole]

Loooks cosy

[charred relic]

Yeah most I ever saw lit up was 40

It was also interestinb being able to just spy on somebody (or everybody) at will.

And this will really rustle somebodies jimmies. You could even see passwords right there in plain text in their account details

Very security, much protection.

[twin dew]

Well, Unix only got hashed password in 1985-1990 depending on main version.
Plain text before that.

[charred relic]

Well to be fair we had remote console access limited so even if an operators account got compromised they couldn't access that stuff. Anything touchy you had to be physically at the console. And if somebody is sitting there you have bigger problems than the passwords lol

Like who is this, why are they at my console...

why are they suddenly leaking all their radiator fluid...

[twin dew]

Ah, no, passwd could contain hashed passwords even before password shadowing was added.
That was only done for the reason that passwd needed to be global readable...

Sorry, mistake on my part.

[charred relic]

oh ok

[twin dew]

Point was to be able to make that actual hash containing file only root readable.

[charred relic]

I'd have people ask for the forum pw for my minecraft server and i mean i know it's them

but im like uhhh i have NO way to see that... i can manually do a reset via email or set something and you change it

Oh another cool thing with the BBS thing was the get togethers. The big boards would have regular meetups. Go bowling, minigolf or whatever. Everybody was within a reasonable range of each other to meet up.

And... back then that's where the nerdgirls were 😄

[verbal raft]

Oh OH

[ivory rampart]

Man.... they just had to shut up

[mental oriole]

Just let me have more VRAM

[twin dew]

It is so bad to give option for less VRAM...
But yeah, shouldn't have commented.

[soft bloom]

I got bored
Looked at a window
It has nice sunlight scattered from the nearby building
While focused on far
Placed 2 fingers close together, near the eye
And made a tiny hole until it appeared round despite it's actual shape
A little further (smaller) - and now i can tiny black circles moving around
Not a microscope, but still reminds of how much is missed in plain sight

Description incorrect: swirl the index finger for that hole

Actually now I'm concerned if i should be seeing so many of them

Also reminder of how our consciousness removes everything mundane and uninterestingvl: those tiny circles, hair...

And focuses on just what is directly in line of sight

[willow pike]

https://tenor.com/view/one-job-you-had-one-job-loki-fail-gif-21911643

[pure karma]

[charred relic]

walk in to swril the index finger for that hole

not even gon... im just... yeah i'll be out in the garden lol

[pure karma]

theres nothing i hate more than games that take 47 decades to launch up

nothing worst than going to play a game and havign to sit through 10 mintues fo useless mumbo jumbo before you can actually play the game

[twin dew]

"We wanted to give buyers the option of cheaper variant, which is perfectly viable, if they are willing to use lower than maximum textures, in some current and future games."

[charred relic]

That's what I hate about large Minecraft mod packs + decent textures takes way longer than it seems like it should.

[ivory rampart]

i just had the misfortune of looking at x870 mainboards.
Asus has gone completely mad.
they offer only 2 Sata ports on 450€ mainboards

when did mainboards become more expensive than high end CPUs

my current asus strix mainboard was 200 and i thought that was already quite bad

Asus used to be expensive but at least have actually good products.
But this gens Am5 boards seem to get beaten by almost all competitors at a lower price

[pure karma]

same time as everything else chip shortage as an excuse for the increase, inflation as a excuse for the price staying

its the same for storage any well known nvme drive from 8 years ago is still the same price now

[ivory rampart]

you have to be kidding

dear god whats the matter with you

ssds have been going down in price almost monthly over that period

[pure karma]

if that was the case my pockets would be filled with 2TB nvme drives

but no outside of very few there still 400$

[ivory rampart]

????????????????????
u good bro?

2tb ssds have been sub 100 for months

[pure karma]

adata drives cant even live for a week

thats been reported loads that there drives are awful

[ivory rampart]

have some samsung in that case

why are you just making shit up thats clearly not true

[pure karma]

what site is that

[ivory rampart]

mindfactory

or just try amazon

how can you so confidently tell lies

[glossy glacier]

well, my gpu went and died on me

[pure karma]

must be nice being in europe

[ivory rampart]

i dont think its different for the states

[pure karma]

same drive $290.30

[ivory rampart]

its 140$ in the states

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=samsung+2tb+ssd

[charred relic]

yikes

I have the 4TB version and didn't pay 290 lol

[ivory rampart]

i bought the 4tb version 2 months ago for like 240

[pure karma]

yea i paid 200 each for my SN850X's and they were 50% off

[ivory rampart]

where do you live?

[charred relic]

762948 Samsung 990 EVO Plus 4TB Samsung V NAND TLC NAND PCIe Gen 4 x4 and PCIe Gen... 1 $249.99 $249.99

That was in Janruary

[pure karma]

canada so the land of inflation

[ivory rampart]

because if its outside eu or states, stuff is likely just more expensive

its canadian dollar man...

dont just say 200 without mentioning its fucking canadian

[pure karma]

i love how easy it is to defeat you with a simple problem

[charred relic]

Well at any rate the drive is great for me so far 😄

In USD that converts well, less than I paid but that makes sense since prices always fall

[ivory rampart]

defeat?

[charred relic]

Just look at the time... it's game:30

[pure karma]

no but seriously call me dumb all you want idc but atleast act smarter and do things right in that case

checking for curency is like step one of comparing pricing

[safe trench]

i love this
uses windows 7 sounds

i wonder where the audio files are located

found them

[charred relic]

using old windows sounds in new windows is tight

[languid gulch]

i do miss the old "chunky tech noises"

where there was a audible sound of the system doing something productive

[charred relic]

Banana Boy #3 overlooking the projects

[languid gulch]

automated fidget toys that sound like old tech

[dire igloo]

Wha... Why?

[twin dew]

People forgetting different currencies exist...
Including MagicZ.

[dire igloo]

Also, welcome to PC advice hell:

• not knowing where the other person lives, so your local recs don't apply to others
• dealing with MagicZ

[twin dew]

100 USD = 137 CAD

[dire igloo]

It's not even that, dude just threw the name Samsung in the ring as if the logo on the sticker means anything about quality.

990 Evo Plus is a good Gen 4 drive, just not worth its price

[twin dew]

And the USD price is without VAT, CAD price includes it.

[twin dew]

It was meant to be the expensive drive.

MagicZ complained how 2TB drives cost $400 (CAD).
Then one example of sub $100 (USD) drive, then another example of Samsung drive.

[dire igloo]

With Exceria Plus G3 and NM710 costing around 100€, there's zero reason to spend 130€ on a 990 Evo Plus

[twin dew]

Then MagicZ showing the price inside Canada.

For that expensive drive.

It was about price comparison between countries in the end.
Not about what to buy.

[dire igloo]

MagicZ is just incompetent, lol
Looks at specific models instead of setting loose filters and sorting by price
Skill issue

[twin dew]

Yeah, but point was that in Canada, electronics are more expensive than in US when comparing just numbers, without currency comparisons and including VAT.
MagicZ was still wrong about the prices even inside Canada.

As the expensive drive was less than 300 CAD, and not over 400CAD minimum for 2TB drive.

[dire igloo]

4TB NVMe in Canada, starting $300
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/products/internal-hard-drive/#sort=price&A=3800000000000,24000000000000&D=1

Umbranocturna didn't realize different people live in different countries
MagicZ didn't realize CAD is worth less

[twin dew]

But in Internet, need to always remember that LOT of countries use Dollars, not only US.
And that US prices are without VAT, while almost all other countries include VAT, often significant amounts of VAT.

[dire igloo]

Highend gen 4 drive, <150 CAD for 2TB
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/BqP8TW/patriot-viper-vp4300-lite-2-tb-m2-2280-pcie-40-x4-nvme-solid-state-drive-vp4300l2tbm28h

[dire igloo]

I think Canadian prices also exclude VAT
Not sure tho

I remember at some point, 7800x3d was so much cheaper in Germany compared to US, that you didn't even have to account for VAT

[twin dew]

Before or after currency conversion?

[dire igloo]

After

German price including 19% tax converted to USD, still lower than cheapest option in the US

[twin dew]

Ah, forgot how bad the availability was in US for long time when demand outstripped supply and everyone scalped.

[dire igloo]

That was during peak CPU craze, shortly before 9800X3D released while 7800x3d prices skyrocketed

But like, not peak pricing, it was during one of these windows where 7800x3d pricing was actually tolerable

Like around $420

[ivory rampart]

9800x3d is at a reasonable price rn, but mainbords arent.
I need x870 chipset for the increased usb Ports

[twin dew]

Or just USB-hubs and/or PCIe USB cards?

Or just X670 board?

[charred relic]

I might upgrade to a x3d chip down the road

[twin dew]

Also, X870 is just single-chip solution with same amount of USB as B650.
X870E is double-chip solution like X670.
Both force inclusion of USB4-chip, which raises the prices.

[charred relic]

And I can relate to the USB port thing, the fact my new monitor has a 4 port hub baked in saved me lol

and I still might, at some point, need to add a card

[ivory rampart]

Hubs nah, pcie card perhaps.
And no i do want the current gen to be on the safer side for buying future am5 cpus.

I looked at a bunch of b boards

Quality doesnt look that good honestly, evwn with x870 quality doesnt look good untill the 350€+ range

[soft bloom]

touching grass?

[charred relic]

Go outside, touch grass. Go inside, touch ass.

[soft bloom]

outside the grass is so green that certain green man might be hiding in it.
and then I will feed grass

[twin dew]

But anyways, X870 is actually B850E (B850 + USB4).
And X870 doesn't exist, only X870E (2x B850 + USB4).

IMHO complete fuckup from AMD.

And seems that the actual chipset chip used for all the AM5 "chipsets" is exactly same Promontory 21.

So B650, B650E, B850 and X870 use single unit of exactly same die.
And then X670, X670E and X870E use two of that die.

Just that the other requirements for the board to be branded with one of those "chipset" names changed.

[ivory rampart]

Well tzst kinda sucks

[dire igloo]

The only benefit of X870 is USB 4

Just look at B650 LiveMixer IO spam

[dire igloo]

1. How do you determine quality?
2. What makes you say that 600 series chipsets won't be able to handle future releases?

[twin dew]

The issue why early AM4 MBs don't have late CPU support is just BIOS/UEFI Flash chip size.
Not enough space to support all AM4 CPUs at same time.

[dire igloo]

A lot of people seriously underestimate the quality of AM5 boards while overestimating the strain put on them by their usage

The B650M-HDV, a somewhat simple $110 board, turned out to be a top three XOC board for AM5 (before 800 released) - only losing to B650E Tachyon and X670E Gene

[dire igloo]

iirc some mainboard manufacturers still made it work somehow

[twin dew]

Yeah, separate versions for early and late CPUs IIRC.

Or stripping their own stuff to minimum.

[dire igloo]

Just to drive this point home:
It takes a good amount of user effort and manual tuning for a 7800X3D's power draw to reach the triple digits

In TPU's testing, the maximum it got to was 91W
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d/23.html

[twin dew]

But basically for AM5, you select a board that has the connectivity you want.
Because outside the absolute lowest end ones, all of them can run even 7950X/9950X at default power limits all the time.

And even some of those lowest end ones can do it.

Where limitation is purely VRM cooling.

[dire igloo]

And damn, 9800X3D is actually super power hungry, coming in at a worst case consumption of a measly 157W
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d/23.html

[twin dew]

And with 7800X3D or 9800X3D, all of them can do that at full tilt without any power limit.

Ok, so not possibly that 9800X3D unlimited in all loads.

Without top-down fan or some other active cooling for the VRM, on the boards without VRM heatsinks.

[dire igloo]

Damn, they actually got a 9950x to draw 300W

[twin dew]

But in general AM5 boards have very overdone VRMs and VRM cooling.,

[dire igloo]

For reference

[twin dew]

Only the absolute lowest end boards with separate chip VRM without any cooling can have issues with 100+W power draws if not using top-down cooler.

HUB testing B650 VRMs:
(Almost) all early B650 are fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTFUa60ozKY
Later B650:s differ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naX-DnKekCM
Latest, most tested are fine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUUVW7wgR3s

For 7950X.

And that B650M-HDV/M.2 mentioned earlier still uses integrated power stages, even when it doesn't have VRM heatsinks.
And not separate chips (two MOSFETs and driver chip per stage).

[proud hedge]

im fairly sure all the full atx b650 can handle any am5 cpu
b650m is model specific

[ivory rampart]

Yes, that am4 issue with early gens not having the easiest time is why i was looking at x870

[twin dew]

Some do have very crappy VRMs with separate chips (much more heat) and no VRM heatsinks.
Both on full-ATX and smaller sizes.

Early boards all can do it, as AMD had mandated that all boards needed to be able to run 7950X, but that was eased later.

[proud hedge]

i think its just the primes

which should be avoided anyway

[languid gulch]

you can put 700W thru the 9950X

[ivory rampart]

Issue with an usb pcie card is that i already might need an sata card.
For some reason am5 mainbaords are starved for sata ports

[twin dew]

Because the chip only supports 2 per die.

[ivory rampart]

Thats criminal

What are the ydoing

[twin dew]

Ah, no, 4 per chip.

But those same lanes can also be PCIe 3.0.

[languid gulch]

isn't there an Intel chip that allows for more ports?

[ivory rampart]

Ine of the strix 870 models has only 2 ports

[twin dew]

So MB can have 0+4, 2+2 or 4+0.

[ivory rampart]

I do want an x3d chip, intel cant compete with those

[languid gulch]

no i mean iirc there's a chip on some boards that allows for more ports

but it's intel, so they're not about to hand that over to amd

[twin dew]

And any single-chipset AM5 board is starved for PCIe basically.
When MB makers want to do ton of M.2 slots.

[proud hedge]

why do you even need that many sata slots

[twin dew]

Single Promontory 21:

[ivory rampart]

I have 2 hhd and 2 sata ssds and 2 m.2 ssds

[proud hedge]

what capacity

[ivory rampart]

8tb, 4tb, 500gb, 1tb, 1tb, 4tb

[twin dew]

And on dual-chipset board (X670, X670E, X870E), one block of 4x PCIe 4.0 goes to the other chipset.

[languid gulch]

yea i have 3x M.2, 2x spinning rust, and could do 2x sata ssd if i wanted to

[proud hedge]

make a NAS 👍

[ivory rampart]

I will when i have more money.
But thats not happening this or next year

[languid gulch]

i want an M.2 NAS where the drives are just out in the open and sitting like they're in a toaster

[twin dew]

Not going to happen with M.2.
But that is the whole point of E1.S and E1.L

[proud hedge]

um you already have the storage

[languid gulch]

oh i know, i just want the chaos of it

[proud hedge]

thats 80% of the cost

[twin dew]

And E3.S and E3.L now too.

[ivory rampart]

Nah thats not worth it

If im gonna do a nas, im gonna do it right with redundancy and all

[twin dew]

But that was the point in suggesting going with X670(E) board, as those have much more lanes from the double chipset, so more IO.

If you don't need USB4 and/or Thunderbolt 3.

Because X870 is just B650E+USB4 and X870E is just X670E+USB4.

Where that USB4 controller usually uses 4 lanes of PCIe either from CPU or chipset.

[ivory rampart]

Ill look at them, i dont need usb4. I just need a good number with without having to daisy chain through a hub

[twin dew]

And B850 is basically B650E.

Tiny difference in the PCIe 5.0 requirements between those on MB level.

Ah, no B850 is identical to B650 non-E.

The original version, before AMD allowed completely dropping PCIe 5.0 support in cheaper MBs later.

As if you have any PCIe 5.0, then the MB needs to use more expensive PCB material.

[ivory rampart]

So what ur saying is that amd cooked mainboard prices

[twin dew]

Part of the reason why there weren't any "cheap" AM5 boards originally was that added expense from needing to have at least one PCIe 5.0 slot, normal or M.2.
That was later dropped.

And the price of the better materials has also come down as usage has gone up.

Now that they aren't just used on server market etc.

[twin dew]

But currently MB makers are in competition on who can have the most M.2 slots.
And both SATA and more importantly normal PCIe slots suffer because of that.
Even when it is trivial to convert normal PCIe to M.2, but hard to convert M.2 to PCIe.

[dire igloo]

Take an old PC, put some of your drives in there and turn it into a NAS

Damn, TIL B650 LiveMixer only has two SATA ports

BUT

[twin dew]

And the accompanying AM5 CPU image:

[dire igloo]

Oh btw, that reminds me - do y'all know this spreadsheet?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1NQHkDEcgDPm34Mns3C93K6SJoBnua-x9O-y_6hv8sPs/htmlview#

I love the work that Thrip does for this community

[languid gulch]

i have 3x VR sensors, VR headset, mouse, keyboard, headset, xbox dongle, flash drive, and external drive sucking up all my usb ports

[dire igloo]

How many of those would still work fine with a hub?

[twin dew]

Everything but the VR-headset and possibly external drives.

Well, the externals would work too, but might affect speed.

[dire igloo]

Hm, yeah. Depends on hub and whether the drives are USB powered

idk about latency on controller, mouse n keeb if you were a high level comp gamer

[twin dew]

And in that case, easy to get internal to external USB plate for USB2, as often MBs have three internal USB2.0 headers today.

Each which is two ports.

[languid gulch]

rn if i plug it all in, it's fine. the second i plug in my external M.2, it gets a bit jumpy

[safe trench]

how can i stop this bullshit from running in the background?

[twin dew]

Services?

Right-click on Start button, Computer Management, Services.

[safe trench]

nvm

finally

[twin dew]

Why are you trying to delete that file?
Or did you delete that file and leave the program that uses it on autostartup?

[safe trench]

trying to remove synpase completly from my pc

[ivory rampart]

Gonna have a look at that later. Nice

[proud hedge]

theres also one for am4

[dire igloo]

Also a couple more for HEDT and LGA1851

Tho the AM4 one isn't made by Thrip iirc

[proud hedge]

#343304476247064579 message

[ivory rampart]

why did the guy have to make the collums too small for the text.
thats actuallz painfull to look at

[dire igloo]

it should be vertical, idk why it isn't

you can just join the Discord server he linked and ask him

there's an entire channel specifically for motherboards

[ivory rampart]

fixed it, the link you sent was just broken

the one from their discord isnt

[dire igloo]

just to make sure, here's the correct link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NQHkDEcgDPm34Mns3C93K6SJoBnua-x9O-y_6hv8sPs/edit?gid=2064683589#gid=2064683589

[ocean bane]

@main locust can u please add dank memer bot? and make a bot cmds channel for it?

[twin dew]

#off-topic-media already exists?

[charred relic]

Thought you might enjoy my latest... screenshot.

[mental oriole]

mmmmmh pixels 🤤

[mental oriole]

no thanks.

[gilded helm]

www.costco.com/hp-omnibook-5-16-ai-laptop---amd-ryzen-ai-7-350---copilot-pc---2k-1920-x-1200-touchscreen---16gb-memory---1tb-ssd---windows-11-home.product.4000359615.html

Thinking about these as secondary machines for light use. In case Copilotplus or the underlying NPU ever become useful.

[languid gulch]

YAY microcenter bought a place here

[gilded helm]

I keep hoping they'll take over the still vacant Fry's location here.

[languid gulch]

sadly our old fry's electronics was abandoned so long ago it's probably haunted if it's still standing

[safe trench]

no some random cat is just sitting there

[gilded helm]

Here the only brick and mortar competition to Microcenter would be Best Buy.

[jagged snow]

Only microcenter I've ever been to was with RJ

They don't have them in my area

[soft bloom]

Have you heard about subpixel art?

[charred relic]

the term rings a bell but no idea

[languid gulch]

oh no, before that it was an Incredible Universe, it's definitely haunted

plus it's right near the Superstition Freeway

[charred relic]

Nice hitting ~90 FPS with FSR in MS Flight Sim with the details up pretty high

Was worred about pushing the pixels on this display on that one but it works fine

[languid gulch]

i'm actually kinda disappointed that MSFS garbage fps didn't last too long

[midnight osprey]

Does anyone know if it’s possible to create categories for YouTube subscriptions? Like entertainment and research being separated?

[visual tree]

This is probably the oldest electronics in my house. It's 25 years old (maybe even more) and still working perfectly after all those years: ❤️

Correction: It's 30 years old and my dad bought it while visiting New York

[charred relic]

I still have and sometimes use an analog meter I built from a kit when I was 16 o.O

[visual tree]

It's nice seeing something that lasts even longer than Toyota Corolla lol

*the older models that is

New Toyota Corolla can't be compared to the model from 2002

[charred relic]

Good ole electromechanical occupations class in high school

that was my vocational 3 out of 4 years

before digital i could work on things like dishwashers, clothes washers/dryers...

Too bad I didn't ever use the HVAC stuff, forgot most all that over the years

I could still do basic stuff... but to fill or recharge I'd def need to look up some numbers... ambient temp matters

[visual tree]

Back when I was in elementary school, we had "technical culture" classes and everyone had to learn how to wire a plug or a wall outlet. The teacher even dumped an old car engine on his desk and showed us how everything works

I highly doubt they teach those things to kids today

[charred relic]

Probably not, unfortunately

Home economics used to be a thing too, and it needs to come back.

Learn some basic finance stuff... how to sew a button on a shirt. How to actually cook....

[visual tree]

The teacher had a small box with a breaker and each student brought him a wire with a plug on one end and a lightbulb on the other end. If you triggered the breaker, you failed the lesson lol

[charred relic]

Like when you graduate high school you should understand things like loans and interest for sure, clearly a LOT of people were clueless

they signed off on loans and got in over their head...

[twin dew]

Tried to find how old my microware is, but Panasonic didn't mark it in the type plate.
Old enough to have been manufactured in UK, and the serial starts with U90, which might mean 1990 as manufacturing year.

Bought used.

[charred relic]

You can create plasma with a grape... in a microwave

[visual tree]

We had a 15-year old zanussi microwave until my dad accidentally damaged it by forgetting to put food inside and turning it on empty lol

[charred relic]

Old microwaves might be useful to be from time to time... but for the transformer heh

[twin dew]

This thing is very nice, as it is button based, in a way that actually works.
And allows you to select two different power settings and times, then start.

[charred relic]

Yeah that damages them pretty fast

the magnetron degrades over time regardless tho

These days a new microwave might not even last long enouhg for somebody to notice but if you've owned one long enough to realize it's not as fast as it used to be

[twin dew]

Not really a problem, as I lot of what I do is intentionally on lower settings.
Very often 1 minute on max, then 2-10 minutes on very low power.

[charred relic]

Also don't play with microwave transformers or magnetrons (friendly PSA)

[twin dew]

Gets nice even temperature.

[charred relic]

The fact those waves could maybe cook food was discovered by them... kinda cooking food

dude had a chocolate bar in his shirt pocket and was tanding in front of a magnetron and noticed the chocolate melted hahaha

[twin dew]

Yes, getting new microwave would be prudent in many ways, but when none of the current microwaves offer same kind of ease of use and utility...

[charred relic]

My grandmother owned one microwave ever. Had the dial timer on it haha

[twin dew]

Which is very usable?

[charred relic]

She never used one for much though... she was old school and cooked

It was usable during it's life there

she had it i guess maybe couple decades

[twin dew]

Todays microwaves absolutely fail on usability, and most people don't even try to time or adjust power with them.

[visual tree]

Can't find information online when Radioshack 22-163 was released on the market. Dad actually things he is wrong and the multimeter might even be 40 years old!

[charred relic]

THAT microwave I could repair lol

[visual tree]

He needs to ask his friend because he rememebers visiting New York in 1988 when he bought the radioshack multimeter

[twin dew]

And the highest end model of that lineup could do three setting sets...
While that middle model can only do two.

[visual tree]

I think most microwaves are around 800 wats and cooking recipes assume everyone is using 800 wats

[charred relic]

I have one of those

[visual tree]

I can also lower the wattage on my microwave if needed

[twin dew]

And usually people end up with hot outside and cold inside.
Or dried up outside.

[charred relic]

Usually it's stashed in a box but I break it out sometimes for the memories

[twin dew]

But point is, when they cannot even set time, and just set something and manually stop, the UI has completely failed.

[charred relic]

Sooo yeah... 37 years old. Guess I did a good job with the solder joints 😄

[visual tree]

I have samsung microwave atm and I like the rotary dial since it's intuitive and easy to use

You can change the timer with it and power if needed

[charred relic]

Oh my grandmother hated our fancy microwaves when she'd come out here

well how do i just add 2 minutes i just want to add 2 minutes!

There was literally a button dedicated for "add 1 minute"...

[visual tree]

On samsung microwave, there is a default time and you can increase/decrease it with a rotary dial

Much easier than pressing buttons

[charred relic]

Looks like I'll be finishing the mailbox tomorrow, def gonna be raining today

[visual tree]

Need to find that old sony radio stashed somewhere. It's probably even older than radioshack multimeter lol

Too bad EU is shutting down FM so you won't be able to use it anymore

[charred relic]

Even sat radio is on borrowed time at this point

Not even sure when the last time I listened to FM was

[visual tree]

Most of EU has already implemented DAB (digital audio broadcasting) and my parents own a car with DAB receiver:

Dark blue = regular DAB service

[twin dew]

Finland in turn had it in testing, then shut down and continued to use FM.

[jagged snow]

Oh interesting
Most us recipies/products assume 1100 or 1200 watta

[visual tree]

Probably in USA. I think 800 watts is standard in Europe

[tough owl]

Microwave are pretty cool

This afternoons agenda is fixing a minisplit that’s freezes over when and of the other two are in use

[charred relic]

Just went to check that the concrete anchor for the new mailbox post was all set properly

that post will snap before it gets knocked outta the ground lol

[pure karma]

Thrilling wifi speed

[charred relic]

whoa slow down there

[tough owl]

My microwave is 1700w input. 1000w output

[charred relic]

What country?

In the US 1700 watts in would mean you're almost at the breakers limit

Well I take that back you can have a 20 amp circtuit as well

That 120v can be a problem at times...

[charred relic]

damned EA app sitting there using 3GB of memory for WHY

[jagged snow]

Kade is stateside iirc

[languid gulch]

had a special edition one of those 🤣 great car

definitely too short for me now, but a very fun car

[cyan crescent]

With W10 reaching end of life and my refusal to use W11, can i just get an anti-virus software for W10 for a few years and call it good?

[jagged snow]

Not recommended, although possible

Your os will still have unpatched security vulnerabilities

[cyan crescent]

I just dont wanna deal with the increased spyware, changed look and other bullshit of w11. Most of which could’ve been an update to w10

[charred relic]

Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated.

https://tenor.com/view/borg-wormhole-star-trek-picard-cube-wormhole-borg-gif-21804212

That borg cube represents future Windows 😄

Seriously though you will. I get where you are coming from but ultimately you'll have to. I say rip the bandaid off and get it over with heh

There are also some scripts you can run that disable all of the telemetry among other things.

I didn't bother... but it's a thing so

[cyan crescent]

No.

[charred relic]

mmmk 🙂

It's just a matter of time though.

I know people that should still be on Windows 95 still...

I can assure you they are not lol

Ditto for the 98 ones... XP...

"I'm NEVER updating"

[jagged snow]

Switch to linux

Staying on 10 is really quite a bad call long term

If you hate 11 that much, linux is a far, far better choice than 10

[cyan crescent]

But then i may not be able to use all of my programs and games

[jagged snow]

Eventually you won't be able to use them on 10 either...

And besides, compatibility layers are quite good and linux support is growing

You kinda want everything here and you're unwilling to compromise

You're not going to get an answer that you're perfectly happy with

[wanton orchid]

why the fuck does archlinux team not want to land 6.14.8

[proud hedge]

Until you wanna play multiplayer with kernel anticheats

[jagged snow]

Yeah for the like 5 games that that includes

[charred relic]

heh I just love that age ole fight!

[jagged snow]

I'm so tired of it

[proud hedge]

PUBG, Escape from Tarkov, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege, Call of Duty, Destiny 2, League of Legends, Valorant, fortnite, rocket league

its actually closer to 10!

[jagged snow]

eac is not kernel-level\

[proud hedge]

Still doesent work lol

[jagged snow]

It does with proton

Works just fine

[proud hedge]

also eac does require a kernel level driver

[safe trench]

use a virtural box with windows 11 unactivated
microsoft cant spy on you enough to be sellable
is easy to set up

for games:
use linux wine
its werid
but it works

[languid gulch]

so i just did my first "big clean" on the new pc & made some discoveries

the intake filters work really well

bottom one is easy to clean, side panel one is absolute fucking garbage, so much so that i may trim it down & attach it to the fan bracket insert thingy on it

i found a mobo screw on top of the 140mm rear fan, wedged & stuck itself in the back mesh cutout

then i discovered 5 mobo screws were never installed 🤣

so, thankfully i have a pc screw kit that came in handy for that

[gilded helm]

As much as soldered memory makes me vomit, I did pull the trigger on 2 of these.

www.costco.com/.product.1926400.html

As lightly as they'll be used on a desk as secondary machines, they should last as long as these Sandy/Haswell machines I have kicking about.

[dire igloo]

Me with 7
ngl, I'm happy I switched to 10 and fwiw, 11 ain't that bad either

And anyone who truly cares about telemetry/spyware should migrate to Linux anyway - and if that brings downsides with it, you gotta weigh your options

[twin dew]

And basically any "spying" in Win11 is also in Win10.
Except that Recall, which in turn needs CoPilot+ computer, so limited to some newest laptops currently.

[dire igloo]

EAC depends on the game devs.
It generally supports Linux but has to be enabled by the developer of the game.
For Fortnite and Destiny 2 for example, Linux-support of EAC is disabled

[dire igloo]

Which also means that unlike Vanguard, EAC isn't a guaranteed nope for Linux

[gilded helm]

I'm looking forward to tinkering with Copilot+ once I get those Costco laptops. Safely on secondary machines.

[dire igloo]

There are a few usecases that just aren't possible to do with Linux and many more that require extra steps.

For example, me doing LoL esports broadcasts can't be done on Linux since LoL can't run in Linux because of Vanguard.
On the other hand, image editing with Photoshop can't be done on Linux due to Creative Cloud not working (or at least not working properly), but you can use Gimp as an alternative - it's just not as good of a tool as Photoshop

[dire igloo]

Rocket League actually works in Linux, natively even - however, none of the other titles do
protondb.com/app/252950

[ivory rampart]

I might take the plungle this year

Every year im getting closer to doing it.
I use linux occasionaly on my laptop, so desktop use isnt that far off for me

[soft bloom]

What can be the reason for wifi router to not display it's web ui upon trying to reach it in local network?
Just endlessly loading in browser until connection timeout

[twin dew]

Please don't paste large blocks of useless LLM generated answers.

When you didn't even seem to read through the stuff yourself and remove things that are in no way related to the question.

[twin dew]

But internet works fine on same computer?

Or nothing works?

[soft bloom]

Yeah, internet works

[twin dew]

Trying to connect by IP, or by DNS name?

[soft bloom]

DNS name, i don't think I ever could by IP alone

*in this one

[twin dew]

Then most likely local DNS cache has bad data.
If Windows, use ipconfig /flushdns and try again.

Or just look what the default gateway is, and try to connect by IP to that.

[soft bloom]

Hmm
I ran resolvetls' command but get basically same result

[soft bloom]

It refuses connection

Oh wait

I am dumb

It doesn't refuse, but same behavior: endless loading

Basically, I want to change restart time, which is daily, so the request to restart probably won't change anything 🙂

[twin dew]

Then the http-server part of the router might be down, and next thing to try is that power reset of the router.

[soft bloom]

Yeah, i started reaching router right after it re-powered 🙂

[twin dew]

Takes time for the right parts to get up.

[soft bloom]

But this is how it behvaes for the last... 30 minutes?

[twin dew]

Ok, then too long.

[ivory rampart]

Got a vpn enabled?

[soft bloom]

Disabled. Never works with vpn on (except one time? I think, somehow...)

With vpn on it doesn't connect at all

So, thier support's chat link creates new tab about:blank
Nice

[twin dew]

Very likely script link that doesn't work with ctrl+click?

[ivory rampart]

On vpns.
I used nord nvp for some time because its cheap.
Switched to mullvad last month.
Night and day difference in responsiveness and speed

So much better in every way

[glossy glacier]

check HTTP and HTTPS
check port
check IP

[soft bloom]

So, after not finding my model, got a troubleshooting article that basically says: power on, check dhcp, disable proxy, if nothing works - reset router

[soft bloom]

Navigating from mobile

[twin dew]

Basically that for every router.

[soft bloom]

I wish I was sure that i got a decently recent settings dump

[dire igloo]

What was this in reference to?

[twin dew]

Screenful of bad ChatGPT "technical advice"

That then got deleted.

[dire igloo]

posted by KEKw in relation to their problem I presume

[twin dew]

No, newbie

[dire igloo]

Ah

[twin dew]

Someone with still the new to the server tag

[dire igloo]

Wouldn't have made sense for it to be KEKw anyway

[soft bloom]

And i was about to ask chatgpt a random unrelated question

Bees
If I remember correctly, they don't fly at night, and... During eclipse
Ta least I think i remember a line about this in Destin's video
But they do fly in rooms during day,
And navigate their beehives (which I guess is more walking? No idea if there's typically space or need to fly).
But what is the difference? I want to dig a bit into that. Like, would that means there's some way to see a a random bee in a room without danger of it flying?

Also had some random large wasp visit balcony couple days ago. It really liked one of the dark corners.

[ivory rampart]

Chatgpt can do well with trouble shooting, but it needs to be the person with the issue, not someone unrelated

[dire igloo]

Ehhhhhhh, ChatGPT is really good at recreating existing patterns.
If that fixes your issue, good - but that probably means it was a generic issue.
Anything more in-depth can actually be worse off with LLM troubleshooting because the model might be too unfamiliar with the issue and can't judge whether the advice it's giving could end up being harmful

As an example: search for "hallucinate" in this channel

[feral drift]

Have recently loaded a 950 page programming manual for a controller into ChatGPT.. It gave me an answer quicker than Adobe Acrobat Reader would load the file..

But I wouldnt ask ChatGPT to produce a piece of software function, without prior knowledge to how that function should somewhat look like - because it will just give you a whatever answer, as to what Fireworker2000 say - in an existing pattern which can be totally unrelated to what youre searching for..

And oh boy do I see a lot of colleagues just blindly trusting the programming examples that ChatGPT prompts them, without checking up if the function would work in real life..

[charred relic]

Take that Windows fanboys, Mac has NEXT LEVEL gaming now.

[twin dew]

But in general, if someone wants LLM "answer", they can do the prompt themselves and don't need someone else to paste crap here.

[ivory rampart]

a lot of issues are generic

[dire igloo]

Can't wait for security researchers to find backdoors in LLM generated code that nobody bothered to check and nobody is qualified to analyze

[ivory rampart]

and even if it does not have the solution, it sometimes points you in a direction to look into

[dire igloo]

I know, that's why first level support exists

[ivory rampart]

the new models that search the web can also be a bit more specific, wich is nice

[twin dew]

But can still hallucinate even then.
Where the synopsis they put out and what the referenced sites actually contain are two completely different things.

[feral drift]

And yet big corps fires the employees who have a slight chance to actually find these backdoors.. :D

[dire igloo]

But if your AI generated result tells you to buy some specific network card cuz it has a specific spec, then you should not simply by that thing and first triple check if it does actually have the spec and if that spec will actually help with fixing your issue

[charred relic]

I'll just be over here watching the world burn 🙂

[dire igloo]

Yeah, the web where a lot of low level content is becoming more and more AI generated

[ivory rampart]

sure, but if it works, it works.
if it dont, i go look for myself

[dire igloo]

And due to it being AI generated, it looks a lot more in-depth and better researched than the boilerplate releasenote article-spam

[dire igloo]

My go-to example for this:
I asked Copilot which ITIL category would be the best fit for providing technological infrastructure for stage production

It told me "event management" which is an obviously wrong answer - event management in ITIL means system events, checking logs and monitoring infrastructure.

It did a great job at recognizing a pattern, it just failed because the pattern did not apply

[twin dew]

But I made my uBlock hide those distracting new tags \o/

Need to later make it more robust and generic.

[dire igloo]

What new tags?

[soft bloom]

Laptop doesn't boot
Looks like yet another update tried to put something into/boot and that notification about it having no space left (on /boot) was more important...
So i went to uefi menu to boot from usb, and was surprised to find tpm2.0 setting. Is that thing this old?

[glossy glacier]

tpm is nothing recent. just the requirement

[twin dew]

Those after some peoples names, that they have been able to select from stuff servers they are on provide.

TPM 2.0 first spec version was release in 2014.

[glossy glacier]

saw systems with intel 6th or 7th gen that had a TPM 2.0

[twin dew]

Yeah, I was just trying to find the first CPU generations from Intel and AMD that had the firmware-TPM 2.0.
And was used in separate chips from 2016 or so onwards in actual computers.

So for Intel, Skylake and newer have inbuilt TPM 2.0 (100-series chipsets and newer?)
And for AMD, Ryzen (300-series chipsets and newer?), so basically any AM4.
Not completely sure if CPU or chipset that determines.

So 6th gen Intel and newer have fTPM 2.0.

[twin dew]

Named as "clanTag" in the HTML/CSS.

[twin dew]

IIRC you were the person in this channel who had one: POOR.
Or someone else, not going to disable to check.

[dire igloo]

Yeah, I have one

I just got confused cuz either you're using discord in a browser or there's ublock for the discord app

Both kinda weird

[twin dew]

Browser.

Because that allows to have multiple windows.

[dire igloo]

Smart

[twin dew]

The app is just HTML in Chromium, so why not just run it in browser

[soft bloom]

F
It doesn't boot from stick
Ubuntu 22, which is ae version installed there

[soft bloom]

f-ing discord doesn't send photos...

basically, all it display on a balck screen is a couple rows of pixels with only a few of them litten up to white, with some big and small gaps

I think it played some sort of animation?
idk, it seems like a bad state

[pure karma]

another day another $1000 hole in my pocket

[feral drift]

Dats some expensive pants you got then...

[pure karma]

i see it more as a worthless currency

[willow pike]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbzDlR4omF4

tl;dr asrock fuckup

anyone with ryzen 9000 update yo' bios

more motherboard bs

[twin dew]

So too aggresive default PBO settings if you enable PBO.

If that is true.

But lot of MBs have set the default PBO on settings way up.

So I somewhat doubt that result.

[wanton orchid]

except msmg is currently down

Microsoft does not want to to remove the bullshit

[twin dew]

And then the person complains how CPUs should be stable and not OCd too much.
But forgetting he had personally enabled PBO...

[wanton orchid]

(and no ntlite is not doing the same work)

[twin dew]

Not aware that PBO is OC?

Yes, it was thought to be safe OC for most part.

But if it was always safe, it would be the default.

[pure karma]

PBO is treated like XMP and EXPO so you get the same results of misinformation and people then in turn dont understand that its not a unlock to the full performance but rather an OC

[twin dew]

Up to now it has been the temperature limits and voltage limits protecting the CPUs with PBO enabled.
As most higher end MBs have just set both current limits and the power limit through the roof.

1000-4096W power limit, and don't remember how high current limits.

[wanton orchid]

wasnt it 1000A current limit and 4096W power limit ?

[twin dew]

Depended on MB maker if the power limit was "just" 1000 or 1024W, or the absolute max possible to be set.

[pure karma]

it still is

like i checked and even tho im on intel defaults anything not specified is still unlimited

so no wonder it runs like garbage

and cpu’s are still degrading

[twin dew]

We were talking about AMD AM5.

With PBO enabled.

[pure karma]

i see no reason why the exact same board makers wouldn’t be doing the exact same thing for AM5

[proud hedge]

Fyi they also get fried on non asrock mobos

9800x3d is just very power hungry

[dire igloo]

Saying that is a big disingenuous

[proud hedge]

it just happens that the issue shows more on asrock

[dire igloo]

Given Intel's track record

[proud hedge]

We are talking about amd

[dire igloo]

Also that ASRock mainboards have higher sale numbers

[dire igloo]

Exactly

[proud hedge]

Yeah

[dire igloo]

9800X3D is still quite tame when compared to Intel's top level flagship (14900KS)

[proud hedge]

It definetly is not "asrock bad womp womp now go buy this 300$ asus mobo" or whatever people say on reddit

[dire igloo]

it's power hungry compared to the rest of AM5

[dire igloo]

ahem, Asus OCP failure, ahem

[proud hedge]

compared to the 7800x3d, double the power, sometimes even more

[dire igloo]

(tho that only applied after the CPU was already dead)

[dire igloo]

Still very tame

[dire igloo]

160W isn't that crazy, just smth to keep in mind

[proud hedge]

It is crazy

[dire igloo]

Which tbf, can trip you up if you don't

[dire igloo]

Wait until you see 300+W 9950X or 400+W 14900ks

[proud hedge]

thats how much the 9900x consumes in most occasions

no wonder theyre frying themselves

[dire igloo]

If your PC can't handle a 100W CPU, how did you afford the 9800x3d in the first place?

[proud hedge]

What? they were talking about them literally frying themselves

[dire igloo]

I know

How is 100W enough for a CPU to fry itself

On any decently built MB nonetheless

[median olive]

um is my graphics card okay

It's a 3 year old 3070, for more context

[languid gulch]

looks more like a specific texture in the game that's being buggy, not your gpu

[ivory rampart]

more a heat issue

the 5800x3d is fairly low power

still gets hot due to the cache

[languid gulch]

inverting the cores with the cache really does make a big difference

[proud hedge]

Not really

[languid gulch]

amd really pushed the "you shouldn't try to OC this" with the 5800X3D

[proud hedge]

Cpus can handle even 100C

[languid gulch]

not without downclocking

[proud hedge]

and if it gets too hot they just throttle

its not what degrades, or fries a cpu

[ivory rampart]

mine reaches up to 90c while not using that much power

its realy just the cache being harder to keep cool

[proud hedge]

Thats by design on amd

[ivory rampart]

yes

and its not an issue of it being a power hog

[languid gulch]

having the cache being an insulating layer on the 5800X3D doesn't help

[median olive]

Oh good. A new GPU isn't in my budget these days.

[languid gulch]

gpu buying these days is like buying a ferrari. if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it

[median olive]

All I know is that the xx70 is the series I aim for

Good balance of power and budget, because I'll never be able to afford a 90

[languid gulch]

gotta love how midrange went from $400 to $1200

[median olive]

I paid $1100 for mine but that's because it was the peak of the supply chain shortage and I already had every other component. So I was like "screw it, I'm not waiting 2 months for the last component's price to normalize."

[languid gulch]

i paid $600 for my 6600XT, i know the pain

[proud hedge]

i paid 140€ for my 2070 super

[charred relic]

I don't remember how much I paid for my 6750XT

Grand Total: $343.03

Would have liked a bit more horsepower but I was on a tight budget

[thin trout]

They're not at all

[thin trout]

200-300w has been very common for a long time 👍🏻

Sandy bridge through skylake quad cores did around 200w at OC. The later gens with more cores were specced at 253w, and almost every motherboard laughed at that and ran at 300-400w out of the box "in spec" since Intel considered that part of the spec as a suggestion rather than a law.

[thin trout]

The reason for this (and i wouldn't say double power, but significantly elevated) is because there was a hard voltage cap on the 7800x3d. The top quarter of the boost curve was chopped off because the voltages used to run it would damage the vcache CCD.

That is no longer the case with the new design on the 9800x3d.

Zen5 x3d is actually more efficient at iso-voltage, it just has the option to boost higher using more voltage - and regardless, a single CCD doesn't use that much power. The voltage cap just made zen3 and 4 x3d CCD's use laptop CPU levels of power at most.

[languid gulch]

don't think i've seen my 9800X3D break 170W

but also i don't OC

[twin dew]

And 9800X3D is specced at 120W TDP, 162W PPT at stock.
And the issue was that if you enable PBO, which loosens those limits, the CPUs start to break, more so on AsRock MBs which raised the current limits more than other MB makers.

So the issue is mainly that with 9000-series Ryzens, PBO, which up to now has been pretty safe, is breaking CPUs on all MB makers MBs.
But with much higher amounts on AsRock MBs which had higher current limits (TDC, EDC) with PBO on than other MB makers.

When using AIO or water cooling.

Basically: Unlike previous AMD CPUs with PBO support, the 9000-series without power or current limits, with good enough cooling, can boost so much that it damages itself.
AMD then gave bad information to MB makers on what is the max allowed current with PBO on.
And AsRock set their MBs with good enough VRMs to use that absolute max current AMD said when user enabled PBO and didn't do manual tuning.
Other MB makers set the current limits lower.

And with the BIOS/UEFI update, AsRock set their MBs to only use the same max currents as other MB makers were using.
But that might be too high too, not just to same extent.

Previously safeish OC method (Enable PBO) isn't safe on 9000-series AMD CPUs.

[thin trout]

The current limiters shouldn't be the issue. Almost all of the time, especially on the 9800x3d, the CPU sits under the silicon health limit rather than current

and that health limit is supposed to be tuned to prevent exactly those kinds of issues despite arbitrary current limits

[twin dew]

Yeah, sorry, forgot to include that that was what AsRock said.
And I originally said that the explanation seems to be off.

[twin dew]

But might also be that people are turning PBO on, and setting that FIT Scalar to 10x like lot of bad guides say.

[thin trout]

you can override the health limit with scalar, yeah, but i recommend never to do that

unless you're going for world records and dont mind cpu degradation/death

but for a daily, not worth at all

[twin dew]

But basically third of the video was the maker ranting how MBs should default to stable, how he wants stability and longevity for his work system.
And then he never denies turning PBO on...

[thin trout]

most of the issues with zen in general have been with EXPO, which is automatic RAM overclocking. Boards set their own voltages (like SOC overvolts) for that, and those have been an issue

zen5 x3d's are quite vulnerable to instant death if vcore goes too high though. My friends have killed a few with manual overclocks at voltages which are surprisingly close to the daily operation voltages.

I suspect LLC voltage spikes are related. LLC adds voltage over the top of the CPU VID to try to counteract vdroop (voltage drop under higher current loads) - but when the current drops (such as a workload ending or stalling), that vdroop no longer happens and as a result the extra LLC voltage is added on top of the VID.

One of my friends was able to kill even a zen4 x3d by setting LLC to maximum and cycling a workload while otherwise fully within spec.

[twin dew]

Yeah, AMD by default uses almost no Vdroop.
And just uses clock stretching (pause CPU while voltage too low) to deal with underruns.

[thin trout]

With LLC and scalar and SOC at spec, i have not seen any reliable indication of problems - but those asrock boards are setting off alarm bells for sure. They may be doing something differently which is even within spec but breaking stuff. More likely i think is them setting something with e.g. LLC, Scalar or SOC voltage which is not fully in spec, and causing elevated vcore or SOC outside of tolerances. Both can kill quickly with the raphael/graniteridge SOC and with vcache CCD's.

I have my vcache CCD around 5.7ghz game clocks (~5.9ghz max) fully stable atm, with quite safe volts. No +voltage on the CCD, 1x scalar, and SOC is only +25mv over spec just for margin (EXPO is usually +100-200mv).

[twin dew]

Also, 7000/9000 is first time AFAIK that AMD has VCore also inside the IOD.
And the 7000 VSOC deaths seem to have been from too large difference between VCore and VSOC inside the IOD.

[thin trout]

I'm pretty sure that was just straight up too high SOC. Spec SOC on those parts was 1.05v, and motherboards from every vendor pumped it up to 1.4 - 1.5v if you tried to overclock memory (including EXPO).

Even before the deaths started i was manually intervening with that and making a scene because it seemed like a ridiculous and dangerous overvolt.

[twin dew]

As hypothesis.

[thin trout]

The failure rate was actually the same on x3d and non x3d, the x3d cpu's were just far more popular. If they're 80% of CPU's, they're 80% of failures.

[twin dew]

In many cases it was IGP that started dying first.

[thin trout]

Yeah, i disable and recommend disabling that too with high overvolts

if you're not using, it can be disabled. If you aren't using but need to use it after your graphics card dies or something, clear cmos turns it back on.

[twin dew]

But point was, on AM4, that IGP uses VSOC.
On AM5, it uses VCore, as separate island inside IOD, rest of which works on VSOC.

[thin trout]

As far as i know it's stepped down from vSOC

[twin dew]

And VCore used to idle at around 0.5V, now raised to 0.7V.
And VSOC default is that 1.00 - 1.05V, and MBs were pumping that to 1.35V, and now pump it to 1.25V with 6000MT/s RAM set.

[thin trout]

My board (x670e Carbon) tried to set the vSOC to 1.45v every time i entered the BIOS, even if i hadn't changed anything.

[twin dew]

Not anymore.
That was AM4 IODs.
On the current AM5 IODs, it is straight up VCore, no difference from cores.

No separate regulation.

VCore is whatever is higher request from the cores and the IGP.

[thin trout]

Do you have a source on that? Because it conflicts with the best information that i have

e.g.

[glossy glacier]

So to protect my x3d, go into BIOS and check/lower vsoc?

[twin dew]

Yes, that was wrong.
GN:s information was that it is from VCore.
And my own HWiNFO numbers support that.

[thin trout]

vSOC will be 1.1v or less unless you have either raised it yourself, or turned on memory overclocks

1.4 can kill quickly. 1.3 will degrade/kill slowly.

[twin dew]

The IGP voltage and core voltages go at lockstep.

[thin trout]

interesting and weird if true 😄

[glossy glacier]

Just enable expo, pbo should be off iirc

[twin dew]

AMD was limited on IGP performance because of VSOC regulators on AM4.
And those went down in power on AM5.

[thin trout]

EXPO is automatic memory overclocking, all motherboards tune vSOC in response to that - so if you haven't set it, the board has chosen an overvolt (and probably wildly excessively so)

[twin dew]

As they don't need to account for IGP anymore.

[thin trout]

EXPO is automatic memory overclocking, all motherboards tune vSOC and VDDP in response to that - so if you haven't set it, the board has chosen an overvolt (and probably wildly excessively so, although less excessively than before the widespread failures)

XMP/EXPO is historically much more dangerous than PBO for that reason.

The only CPU i've had die was due to an Asus Hero 8 overvolting some of the memory controller voltages too far when enabling a standard XMP; it killed them almost instantly, and the CPU never detected memory again with any memory or board. My CPU was not alone then, and it happened with even higher profile on the AM5 SOC failures with EXPO overvolts.

A lot of people don't understand that those failures happened because of overclocks with voltages massively raised over specs, but they all did. No CPU's failed at spec.

[twin dew]

So with AM5, with current 7000 and 9000 IOD, that VDDCR_GFX is actually Bypass type from VDDCR, not DLDO from VDDCR_SOC.

No, cannot be sure.
Now it isn't at the exact same in HWiNFO.

But GN had gotten the information that it would be from VCore, not VSOC.

In their 7000-series failure videos.

[thin trout]

I am not certain either way, but will keep it in mind! I remember there were some weird vcore pins.

[twin dew]

I wonder if AMD enabled the existing DLDO in the silicon.
As those exists for each core in Zen4, and are used in the Epyc CPUs instead of bypass mode.
Might be the same for the IOD and they enabled it with AGESA update.
Or I remember the numbers wrong.

[thin trout]

I believe that AMD actually uses the LDO's for both curve optimiser and voltage stabilisation (they call for a VID higher than the core wants, then step it down by a variable amount - that buys voltage headroom for faster boosting and reduces ripple)

but can't back that up with great sources 😄

For the CO stuff, you can make cores pull less current and even become unstable with -CO even though the Vcore VID and SVI3 voltage remains the same, in the same allcore workload.

[twin dew]

But my IGP was now at 0.70-0.72V while driving two monitors.
IIRC it used to follow the VCore exactly, but cannot confirm anymore.
Not going to update to older AGESA to check.

[thin trout]

I just don't use it. Don't need it, and the overclocking failures that we've seen localised happened at the iGPU. If you have it on, probably more caution with high overvolts is warranted

[twin dew]

Checked back then when there was that mismatch between SkatterBencher pic you linked and GN.

And my first 7800X3D failed, with IGP going first, from just running 15 minutes on that too high VSOC when I set RAM to 6000, booted to Windows and checked VSOC, rebooted and set it much lower value.

Few months after.

Got it RMAd before it died, but IGP on the max HT frequency that worked was significantly less than without it, and that was going down steadily.

And the system wasn't in use yet, so not much lost.

[thin trout]

Yeah i had to be extremely careful to never apply too much SOC. Like i said with the MSI boards, they would set SOC up to 1.45v if you literally just entered the BIOS. They wouldn't warn you on the save-and-exit screen. I was just being paranoid as hell and found that they were screwing everybody like that incidentally.

[charred relic]

Nerdz

[twin dew]

🤓 and proud of it.

[charred relic]

https://tenor.com/view/nerds-mad-football-rage-gif-16650450

These days being a nerd is cool...

When I was in school it wasn't so good...

Most of the metalheads were nerds of some flavor but we didn't get messed with because we would fight back.

[thin trout]

an old receipt, note the dates 4 weeks before the first journalist reports and AMD statement 😄

i set a hard limit at 1.28 and wasn't even fully comfortable there when a lot of peeps were running 1.4 - 1.5, and MSI set it to 1.45 every time i entered the BIOS because my memory frequency was set to a non-spec multiplier. Paranoia and experience pays off when it comes to overvolts.

^Also 5 months after the platform came out - but basically nobody bought it because it was horrible value, DDR5 was expensive and vcache parts didn't exist yet, so there were few CPU's and therefore few failures

new platforms and parts are the most dangerous times to be overvolting things

that's one plus of AMD reusing their IOD from zen2 to 3, and 4 to 5 - we already know its limits and it's proven in battle.

[languid gulch]

now i wanna see what 2V would do

[twin dew]

Also to this: "Scales" != safe.
Just means it still unlocks more potential performance.
Which baenz doesn't seem to be able to differentiate.

You can easily scale short-term while already degrading fast.

Just not instant death level yet.

[tribal kraken]

But if you run the CPU at 1.3V SOC, theres no way to tell that was the cause if it dies under warranty time? (3 years)

For RMA to pass?

[thin trout]

Not really no, but that's RMA fraud which is a crime

[thin trout]

He does, smart guy, but a bit too gung-ho about running crazy volts sometimes IMO 😄

[tribal kraken]

I can live with that crime

[dire igloo]

You don't need to censor MagicZ's name, we all know their OC skills

[feral drift]

Der8auer is jeloux of this who person, who shall not be named :) who allegidly has fried more CPU than the OC Guru himself..

[tribal kraken]

Too bad I did not get to keep the broken 13900K, would have made keyfob from it

Thats why the second one is now direct die cooled 5,5GHz all core waiting for degrage to start life as keyfob

[thin trout]

IIRC Der8 killed a 7800x3d immediately when playing with it, applying 1.5vcore with 50c+ temps

😄

[languid gulch]

now i'm tempted to somehow convert my obsolete am4 cpu into my keyfob

stuff the battery & pcb under the IHS

figure out how to do buttons

ew nvm, forgot about all the pins

[pure karma]

just uhhh... mold it in resin? or something

[pure karma]

i was gonna say only 5.5 and then i remembered intel defaults tanks clocks

[pure karma]

i havent killed a cpu

YET...

[ivory rampart]

im just not gonna touch anything when i get the 9800x3d.
At best ill try a slight undervolt to reduce temps.

Surely it wont fry

[tribal kraken]

I can get it to run 5.6GHz all core, can't remember how much voltage needed but its then right on thermal throttle limit even with direct die cooling. 5.5 for all core (4.5 e-cores) and 6.0 for single.

+300W power

If run on stock Intel 253W power, the direct die cooler can keep it around 70°C

[feral drift]

My god - here I have played Satisfactory on 59.934 Hz - where I could have had such a better experience running it on 59.994 Hz.. Such a waste of my life and time really

[twin dew]

Intel being weird.

[pure karma]

certified refresh rate moment

my 60hz is superior to yours

[grand mirage]

At this point it is worth to start a new save

[thin trout]

Mem OC is worth it. Some pretty big gains

This is "lategame" but far from the heaviest world in existance. I'd like to rerun after my upcoming megaproject 😄

(geomean is relative to standard zen4 ccd, can just ignore that)

Several of the gains are also a lot higher than that since Asus defaulted an obscure memory addressing option to the wrong setting when selecting >=6000mt/s on zen5, which was a major performance loss for OC profile but not spec profile. I just did not rerun with that fixed yet. It's also not a maxed OC, just one that was decent and guaranteed to work for A/B comparison before i knew what the CPU could do.

[ivory rampart]

im geting a 6k cl30 kit to begin with

there are some kits with slightly higher clocks and still good latency, but feel like its not worth the upcharge

[thin trout]

Ye it's not really. The main difference though is setting timings manually - EXPO does not set most timings

[ivory rampart]

it doesnt?

thats kinda shit, i would assume it does

[thin trout]

Unfortunately not, and as a result they only get about 40% of the perf gain that memory overclocking can achieve

[twin dew]

Only the primaries and refresh time.
And often that refresh time is set way up in the XMP/EXPO profile.

[ivory rampart]

and how would i go by getting the other stuff right?

[thin trout]

They usually set 4-7 timings. I manually set 25.

[willow pike]

this is some real good data

[ivory rampart]

im open to do it, but i do need something to follow along

[thin trout]

For the most part it's as simple as set a tighter value and stability test, if it crashes then don't use it. If you can't make it error, it's good.

[willow pike]

vcache really does make things less ram dependant but they clearly still love the lower latency

[ivory rampart]

okay, but im not gonna be testing 4 different values for 25 settings.
and even then, i do need reference data to see by how much i should/can increase by

[thin trout]

Buildzoid also published a set of timings which almost always work for any hynix 16gbit RAM, and they get most of the achievable performance. Almost double the gains that enabling 6000cl30 EXPO gives.

full memory profiles @ bottom

[twin dew]

That tREFI at max is bad idea unless RAM temp is kept under 50C or so.

[ivory rampart]

i never heard of hynix, im probably gonna buy this kit

[willow pike]

discord plz

[twin dew]

For which you need active cooling with DDR5.

[thin trout]

If you click "open in browser" or w/e then it should be full size lossless image

[twin dew]

Any airflow over the RAM, but that doesn't happen with tower coolers.

[willow pike]

ye I got it

[thin trout]

in my experience e.g. 500 rfc, 50,000 refi is pretty fine even hotter than that, but yeah if you have an issue you can drop it to e.g. 32,000

Spec is refreshing ~10% of the time. 500 rfc with 30k REFI is refreshing only 1.7% of the time, so still a huge improvement 😄

[willow pike]

last time I attempted memory overclocking my hair went grey

[ivory rampart]

so i would be using these for reference?

[willow pike]

hynix make ram chips, you probably have hynix already

[thin trout]

Yeah

[twin dew]

Yeah, but too many places just telling to set that 65k tREFI, without saying it is very temperature sensitive.

[willow pike]

ram is silicon lottery: ultra gambling edition, some kits go way faster than others

[thin trout]

all hynix 16m/16a in kits that don't suck (so like 6000c30 bins) are solid 😄

[ivory rampart]

ok but before ordering, how do i know if what im getting is hynix

[thin trout]

Hynix were/are the only vendor making chips that can hit cl 30 @ 6000

[twin dew]

Also, HWiNFO can now give most of that same information.
Without need for security vulnerable driver that ZenTimings installs and never removes.

[thin trout]

there might be nanya or something now but rare, and still good

[ivory rampart]

so whatever im getting is probably hynix

[thin trout]

with those timings, yeah

[tribal kraken]

It's just really time consuming. You can run RAM testers 2 days straight, and still the next odd game or software finds a way to crash to memory unstability

[thin trout]

There is a reason for the noctua 😄

RAM and pci-e 5.0 nvme under it

[ivory rampart]

so no real point with spending any extra, i dont care about looks

[thin trout]

Yeah not really, although unlocked PMIC can be a minor benefit it's probably not worth using for a newbie. TridentZ has bad temperatures due to missing thermal pads

i got teamgroups because they're good in that respect

but most kits are fine

[twin dew]

At that 30k tREFI as that was stable up to 80+C PMIC temp (external heating during testing)

IIRC 45k was what I tested, but then gave headroom.

And tRFC 450 didn't work.

Need to tighten some things back up, and loosen others, trying to get Memory Context Restore to work reliably.

[dire igloo]

Most cl32 and cl38 kits are Hynix too
Cl36 are primarily Samsung, but if they have a 1.25V spec, it's also Hynix

[thin trout]

It should work if you have power down disabled

[dire igloo]

Could also just try and find a cheap 5600cl46 jedec kit if they're cheap and guaranteed Hynix

[twin dew]

That disabled MCR too.
Point is, the computer boots reliably.
But it often does the full 60 second training, and not the restore.

[dire igloo]

Also, any Klevv kit is guaranteed Hynix, regardless of spec

[thin trout]

You can shorten training with some of the bios config options to around 10sec. Unfortunately retrain is required sometimes, can be triggered by stuff like every X boots or ambient temperature change etc

but it should skip training like 90% of the time

[twin dew]

I know.
Might also just be the long time between boots (several weeks usually at minimum).

[thin trout]

Yeah, it invalidates after a few weeks i think

copy/pasting memory training is kind of a hack

that mostly works, but not always in cases like this

[twin dew]

But have been trying loosening various settings to see if that makes it better.
Might just disable MCR and Power Down completely.

[thin trout]

it helps a lot if you are restarting 200 times to measure and tune curve shaper or something 😛

[twin dew]

For the tiny bit of less latency.

[dire igloo]

Talking about RAM made me think of this video again
https://youtube.com/shorts/0so1fe7DaKM

[tribal kraken]

Think I've not seen single code 15 memory training after installing the waterblocks on them. Would like to have thermal camera to actually see how the chips itself stay cool. Not just SPD hub temp from HWinfo

[thin trout]

For RAM, the people selling the RAM kits almost always don't make the chips themselves.

So it's like asking if you want a Zotac or a Palit rtx5070, it doesn't really matter much, it's an rtx5070 GPU and board/ram spec made by nvidia.

It's like that with RAM, you just try to figure out who sells kits which have hynix's chips in them and go with that.

In DDR4 it was one of the samsung chips that was godmode for overclocking. Tight timings, strong scaling with extra voltage (8gbit B die)

In DDR5 hynix has the lead, but there isn't much difference between chips as long as you don't get Micron (they have some god awful chips)

[twin dew]

Only the single revision of single size.
Rest were just average to bad.

[thin trout]

Yeah, they struck gold seemingly by accident 😛

[twin dew]

For DDR5, every Hynix revision has been better than previous, for both die sizes.

[twin dew]

Just didn't care and went for production price cuts instead.

[twin dew]

And AFAIK that specific Samsung B-die was very varied in quality.
The another thing about the Hynix DDR5 dies is that they are very uniform instead.

[tribal kraken]

I've used now Samsung 6000CL36 2x16GB kits from DDR5 launch and and later Hynix M-die 2x48GB kits from 6000CL30 and 6400CL32, with Intel Z690 (12900 and 13900K) and AMD x870 with 9800X3D and 9950X3D and 4090/5090 GPU. In overall have to say that playing in 4K with those it's really hard to say which Ram-kit is installed.

[twin dew]

So for the B-die, needed lot of binning to get the good OC dies from the "barely works at stock 2666" dies.
With Hynix DDR5, you can basically buy any kit with those dies and can mostly expect them to clock etc. very well.
And not need to buy very expensive prebinned kits.

[thin trout]

It depends mostly on the framerate that you're going to be playing at, and the circumstances. E.g. for a satisfactory world with 500k objects, RAM is hugely important and you're guaranteed to be CPU/RAM bound regardless of resolution

[tribal kraken]

Yeah sure. Satisfactory would be fine at 60 fps but when you get used to 144 or 120 in shooters it feels bad

[thin trout]

Hard disagree on the "fine at 60" part, but ultimately it's a matter of opinion 😄

going from framegen 80>160 up to 100>400 in worst case with zen5 and 5000 series was an insane improvement for me personally

dropping to 80 base, framegen artifacts are starting to show and the latency is getting bad too. Turning framegen off is much worse due to eye tracking blur and stroboscopic artifacts

[tribal kraken]

For me around 90fps is enough in VR with Pimax K8X and with monitors too it's about there where it feels smooth enough

[ivory rampart]

im running the game caped at 100, above is too much fluctiation.
and ever since i went all in on nuclear, the frames dip to shit anyway.
9800x3d should go a long way towards making it more stable

[thin trout]

i find a very solid 120-240 to be pretty good, but for VR i would want better

part of why i didn't even try VR yet. If i can't play cyberpunk because 100fps is making me motionsick on a monitor, some 90-120hz headset isn't gonna have a chance

[ivory rampart]

im waiting for vr to mature more (totaly not that i couldnt put money towards it rn)

[tribal kraken]

For me VR is just uncomfortable, putting on/off the sweaty headset when going to WC etc. But really like sim racing with them with the depth immersion for braking points etc

Some other simulators would hugely benefit it from too

[ivory rampart]

not sure if id like satisfactory in vr.
the constant flying around would probably not feel too graet

my upgrade will be just in time

[thin trout]

Oooo nice!

🥹

[glossy glacier]

so this hsould be fine, right? or under what name is vSoC in HWInfo?

[thin trout]

It's not too bad, but lower is better

[glossy glacier]

as i have EXPO enabled thats in your stated range

[dire igloo]

I know - the agonizing part of this video is that he doesn't.
And he's got a gigantic audience listening. Listening to him call a vengeance 5600cl36 kit "high quality"

[dire igloo]

Also, wasn't Hynix ddr4 also pretty good?