off-topic-tech

[charred relic]

yeah virtualbox works fairly well and it's free

[pure karma]

i dont really want a virtual machine what i want i to be able to quickswap between two Operating systems physically installed without having to close either or restart my computer

[charred relic]

well that's a bit of a problem lol

[pure karma]

but as far as i can tell thats imposible

[charred relic]

you'd have to virtualize to do that

I just like to be careful where I have ot install the boot loader, it'll want to take over and give you the option on boot which is fine

[pure karma]

because swaping between the two is a whole like 2 minute ordeal of pure ineficient inconvinience so i dont really use linux much because i cant fall back on windows easily if something dosent work unless i give up right away and just swap over and learn nothing

[charred relic]

i prefer to just manually select the boot device and install the loader on the root of the linux drive on it's own, then F12 on boot

but that's a me thing

modern linux desktops like ubuntu are simple though

[pure karma]

i dont have boot priority as a option on my laptop so it asks me on every boot and anoyingly linux is selected by default if you do nothing for a few seconds because U is before W

[charred relic]

they've gotten it down to windows easy really heh

you can edit all that, and when i let it take over the loader i usually do

Maybe you need dual boot to get you to stick in it and fix things instead of giving up lol

assuming anything is even broken... it'll probably just work

non native games, not read up on that scene in a long time now

[pure karma]

i have a dual boot setup with the drive split like 60/40 just school isent a great setting to use linux

because nothing is compatible it either has to be compatible or you have to hope it works and is available trough browser

[charred relic]

The internet was a fairly new thing when I first used linux, and what killed me at the time was no net access due to modems back then almost all being "winmodems" which rarely worked in linux and even then only with hacks

Not much later I had broadband and virtually every NIC ever made was supported heh

I still have that boxed version of Redhat somewhere... a purchased in the box on CD version

An impulse buy too really... while I was in CompUSA getting something else.

[charred relic]

lol

[pure karma]

meh every tech channel needs its own tech boomer

[languid gulch]

several

i'm in the "not young, but still kinda new to pc building stuff"

[pure karma]

im in the not old not new just lack of interest to go further for a long time category

[severe obsidian]

im in the "relatively young autistic kid with a huge passion for building and making pcpartpicker lists and pc's, but less social skills"

[languid gulch]

now that i'm officially spoiled as fuck i can stop looking at all that 🤣

[dire igloo]

how deep into the rabbit hole are you?

[severe obsidian]

how deep should i be?

[dire igloo]

deep enough to know who you can ask for reliable advice

[languid gulch]

sith theme? or does anyone have any better ideas

[pure karma]

something that i should probably do is try to make more configs in pc part picker to just get better at ballencing stuff and also to see more of the variety in options because like realistically i see maybe 2-5 cpu's of each generation yet theres like 25 for both amd and intel each generation and its just like bro what

when the heck did this apear

[severe obsidian]

id say so

[pure karma]

and you check and its like oh 8 years ago dam

[severe obsidian]

did you know, theres over 125 different intel i5's?

[pure karma]

well yea obviously

[dire igloo]

rainbow puke and never gonna give you up on loop

[languid gulch]

i'm astonished at the 40 cent plastic clip for the NVMe drives in this thing 🤣

[opaque grove]

me with everything

[dire igloo]

the music video

[languid gulch]

🤣

[severe obsidian]

at the very least its easy to install, no?

no need to fiddle with a teeny tiny screw

[languid gulch]

i might do a USA theme

[charred relic]

ouch

the poor pump

[dire igloo]

How I go about picking parts:

CPU, GPU: best you can fit into the budget
EVERYTHING ELSE: cheapest that's good enough

"Good enough" can include things like aesthetic preference, niche functional requirements and (if they're within financial reason) upgrades to quality and QOL.

[charred relic]

it has the wrong font

[languid gulch]

for some reason it looks orange in the pic, it's really a lot closer to the red on the fans

[dire igloo]

I recommend you make PC parts list outside your country - go to US PCPP, NL, AU, etc

[pure karma]

thing is everything i play has quite the cpu bias so a ballenced buidl for what i do is a incredibly unbalenced build for anyone else

like theres a reasson i had a 1660 super paired to a 10700F and still was cpu bottlenecked before it blew up

[charred relic]

im thinking about using a microcontroller with a small color screen to add a readout to my case

[severe obsidian]

yes, but: not when im building it for someone else

has to atleast look somewhat presentable too

[opaque grove]

you've probably never fixed a pair of glasses before.

[dire igloo]

okay, so:

1. you only go off of trustable third party benchmarks
2. you realize that "CPU bias" is a hella loose term
3. bottleneck is an even more bullshit term

[severe obsidian]

yes i have, my moms glasses broke and i had to fix em

[pure karma]

cpu limited 😑

[dire igloo]

and of course: learning to make a PC match the desired usecase is a key skill

[severe obsidian]

screws there are even tinnyer

[dire igloo]

still bullshit

[severe obsidian]

agreed

[dire igloo]

I can make Satisfactory GPU limited and PT Cyberpunk CPU-limited

[charred relic]

GPU/CPU "bottlenecks" get tricky anyhow

A decrease in resolution lowers GPU use and raises CPU use so... it's all relative to a particular use

[dire igloo]

1. taste is subjective, let the other person decide
2. "good enough" can include things like aesthetic preference

[severe obsidian]

bottleneck isnt a "bullshit" term, its a misunderstood term and it really shouldnt exist, there should just be clear rules that you really shouldnt pair a gt710 with a 14900k

[opaque grove]

I was fixing glasses once, and one of the skruz fell on the floor 3 tijmz

[dire igloo]

one game has it weighted differently than another, you start tuning settings, maybe you have more or less background bloat, etc

[charred relic]

bottlenecks are def real

ask anybody that updated from a mechanical drive to a SSD back in the day 😉

then tell them the hd wasn't a bottleneck heh

[severe obsidian]

ive worked with customer service for over a year, i care about what the other person is gonna look at every single time they turn on their pc, but i also care they get the case they like most, if for whatever reason that happens to be a black box with holes, then so be it

[charred relic]

it was the definition of bottleneck at the time...

[dire igloo]

the bullshit part about that pairing is that the 14900K's iGPU is probably more powerful, that's all.
In the end, what is or isn't a sensible config all depends on usecase

[charred relic]

def misunderstood though, like i pointed out with GPU "bottlenecks"

[severe obsidian]

literally any semi modern cpu's igpu is more powerful than the gt710

[severe obsidian]

touch

[pure karma]

Im gonna bullsheet you if you keep at it

[charred relic]

yeah and that probably stored 1mb or something

[severe obsidian]

thats a lot of frame skipping

[severe obsidian]

i think that stored close to 256mb

[opaque grove]

4mb

[pure karma]

its 3D mark at like 200 something fps its bound to stuter

[severe obsidian]

never-fucking-mind wow that is incredible

[charred relic]

at that time 4MB was huge

[severe obsidian]

i mean, you do have a pretty old cpu,

[severe obsidian]

what gpu do you have?

[pure karma]

[charred relic]

when I was 13/14 my friends dad had been a manager at radio shack and had a bunch of tandy computers, one had a hard disk i think that was 5mb

it was like this big external box

[pure karma]

did you miss the whole summer 23 bit from earlier and the before it blew up bit in that line

[severe obsidian]

short term memory loss

i have no idea what we talked about

[dire igloo]

two things you need to remember when advising people on PC builds:

1. you can't decide other people's taste
2. many people are incredibly misinformed by poor marketing. they think they want a fishtank and suddenly H6 Flow is the only viable case. they want a vertical GPU and think that the only feasible case is a Y60.

so while you can't tell people what they want, you can and absolutely should help them differentiate between what they want and what they think they need.
Then you can find options that maybe even fit their desired style better than the namebrand stuff they thought they wanted

[pure karma]

13700K is my cpu which is not that old hence the whole LGA 1700 drama from earlier and 4070ti is my gpu

[severe obsidian]

i am quite good at convincing people to not spend 150-250usd on a case

[pure karma]

thats what i used for that particular run

[opaque grove]

me looking at the 10 year old laptop that I used every day a few months ago

[charred relic]

I like my case 😄

[severe obsidian]

wait nvm, thought you were someone else

with the uh, 7th gen intel

[severe obsidian]

also, damn, really? 4070 ti?

[pure karma]

i still use a 7700K like once a week but no im not the guy with the bad choice of a upgrade on a LGA 2066 socket

well yea supers werent out yet

[charred relic]

I have a 3700x system that's almost complete... might work

[pure karma]

and it was like $1200 💀

[charred relic]

think it just needs a psu, might try one... order from amazon if it doesn't get it running return it

That'd make a decent home serrver... has 32GB on it

...or i can part it out on ebay

[pure karma]

but its also not like i had much of a choice after limping this grenaded turd across whatever finish lines i could for over a year by that point

still works just absolutely not worth using for a daily system

[opaque grove]

I really don't know enough about graphics cards

[pure karma]

i use it for game streaming so if it lives my freinds get free game streaming if it crashes they dont

thats basically the use case i have found for it

[pure karma]

anyway i would like to get back to this point

thats true i do

i tested my laptop and not only is it maybe 1/8th as frequent but its also not consistent

were as this is at the exact same interval each time with the ocasinal strangler mixed inbetween

and iv had a lot of ram stability issues that primarly show up in vr and i think that might still be hapening during normal games just the stuters are significantly more amplified while running VR for whatever reasson

[severe obsidian]

thats a lot of errors

OCCT really stressed ur gpu out there

[pure karma]

oh it went fairly easy on it all things considered

[severe obsidian]

slap no, bad value

[pure karma]

it successfully ran an entire 3D mark run in "RGB mode" i guess il call it

defedently one of my most memorable tech adventures as of semi recently

[severe obsidian]

ayy windows party mode

[pure karma]

it also scored incredibly high because of not having to load anything vram related

and the run was valid too so i guess lesson learned if you wanna break a 3D mark record kill your vram

also dont think anyone has mentioned it yet but im interested to see how the 5090's already starting to brick ends up turning out

[manic cipher]

What is that?

[opaque grove]

4mb of storage

[manic cipher]

Wow.

That is a large disk for a tiny amount of data.

I want to see a PC that is the home equivalent of a supercomputer.

[opaque grove]

that's how it used to be 4mb used to be a lot

[manic cipher]

A gigabyte was unimaginable back then.

A terabyte was unheard of.

8TB was

[stray badger]

24TB...

[languid gulch]

if i plug all my stuff in i have 50TB

[manic cipher]

1 PB.

[manic cipher]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-K2yeQylCk&t=43s

[charred relic]

I watched somebody upgrading an old Unix workstation from 1996 with 1GB of memory which at the time was outlandish

[opaque grove]

64GB

[charred relic]

Most people had 486 or 1st gen Pentium desktops with 4-8GB some had a bit more mem

err MB, not GB lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh3rOtfY6ok

that's what 50 grand could get you in 96 lol

[languid gulch]

i remember upgrading an xp tower from 256mb to 2gb of ram

was like $200

iirc that was on the system where i did my first gpu swap

the first one dropped dead, and when i got it out, it only had 4/7 fan blades on it, with no hints of the 3 missing blades anywhere

[severe obsidian]

tbh, relatively speaking, that is a huge upgrade

[languid gulch]

oh definitely

it let us use it for vista for a bit

that was also when i got to experience ReadyBoost 🤣

time to see how fast KSP starts up now

[languid gulch]

ok, even tho it's still on the gen3 drive, it load noticeable faster

[charred relic]

set the controls for the heart of the sun

[sharp oasis]

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/moore-threads-gpus-allegedly-show-excellent-inference-performance-with-deepseek-models

[sharp oasis]

This is straight prolly made by deepseek ai itself

[wanton orchid]

again 350 for a cpu swap that old is a scam

[manic cipher]

How are the RTX 4000 series?

[twin dew]

Check all those CPUs.
When trying to buy old-new stock, the lowest end one isn't always the cheapest.

Yeah, those -X parts are for when you need lot of PCIe lanes, lot of "weak" (low max turbo) CPU cores, or lot of RAM and RAM bandwidth.
Not for high single thread or gaming.

So only that DaVinci Resolve of listed programs MIGHT benefit from upgrade in same platform, unless going to those Cascade Lake-X 10th gen chips.

[safe trench]

this graph shows how ahead of its time the 1080ti was

[languid gulch]

k, yea, i can feel a difference in more demanding games. didn't think it would be instantly noticeable

[verbal raft]

I thought the RX 6600 was slower than the 1080 but i guess not

[tribal kraken]

1080Ti was so nice and cool after 980Ti

And mined its value back 2 times as ethereum 😄

[verbal raft]

So you are an opportunistic business man

[tribal kraken]

I like the idea of direct electric heater which makes money, too bad they dont work that good anymore. But still better than normal heater

[tribal kraken]

Called ISP as my internet connection has been on "old" connection type which they dont sell anymore. Got 20€/month cheaper for a year, and speed changed from 600/300Mbit to 1000/1000Mbit

Cloudfare speed test

[verbal raft]

😂 LOL

[pure karma]

Lived fairly long for a infinite money generator

[night girder]

Interesting to see 4GB vs 16GB boot time.

From 2GB to 4GB is the biggest advantage. Then going to 8GB you even lose a little bit of speed vs 4GB model. And 16GB model is close to 4GB model when it comes to boot up speed for SD.

I keep reading suggestions to not buy a PI5 16GB model since buying a TinyMiniMicro (whatever that is) should be cheaper, more powerful and more room for upgrades.

There is a second hand Intel DH67BL (M-ATX) + i7-3770 (8x 3,9Ghz) + Cooler + 16gb for 65 euro.

Maybe I can use that as an alternative to PI 5.

[dire igloo]

fwiw, RGB and up is margin of error and negligible

[dire igloo]

These numbers are all over the place tho - would probably need to be retested a couple times to eliminate random chance

[night girder]

There is more tests in the review. Don't want to post them all.

[verbal raft]

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-data-center-cpu-sales-hit-the-lowest-point-in-13-years

[night girder]

I am just not sure if the PI5 is the best choice for homelab stuff. Price vs performance (cpu + ram mainly).

If I am going to run docker, I could use the 16GB ram.

[pure karma]

has xeon even been that competitive as of recent

I feel like all i hear is threadripper this threadripper that meanwhile xeon is just in a shadow lurking

[verbal raft]

I have no idea

[verbal raft]

XEON isn't just HEDT

its also server

[pure karma]

Well i think i found the answer

[twin dew]

And that just changed "Xeon Scalable" to "Xeon #"

[stray badger]

Makes it easier to tell which is which

[verbal raft]

first thing im watching today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ptUApTshik&t

[twin dew]

Because that X299 and Cascade Lake -X CPUs for it were the last Intel HEDT platform.

So only options if you need more PCIe lanes, or RAM channels, or RAM, than what consumer platforms can provide are:
Threadtipper
Epyc
Xeon

Where Epyc and Xeons are either not really highly clocked, or VERY expensive (as in 5000-10000e for CPU only)

As those low-core count, high frequency, CPU models are bespoke to HFT stock traders etc.
So the prices are very high.

Intel does have the Xeon W branding for Xeon on Workstation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapphire_Rapids#Sapphire_Rapids-WS_(Workstation)

[verbal raft]

"Threadtipper" *ripper

🤓

[twin dew]

Yup, typoed something again.

[verbal raft]

i dont ever see content being made on these CPU's

[twin dew]

Not sold direct to consumers, only as ready made computers, for large companies etc.

[verbal raft]

oh

[twin dew]

Which is why I had almost forgotten that stuff.

[pure karma]

theadripper is more expensive no? because last i checked threadrippers were going for easily 25K USD

[twin dew]

That would be for complete system.
Not just CPU.

Threadripper 7000 series CPUs are from $1500 to $5000 MSRP.
Threadripper Pro 7000 series CPUs (OEM only) are from $1400 to $10000

Highest boosting ones are $2650 (24 cores) and $3900 (32 cores) with 5.3GHz max boost.
The more expensive, higher core count ones max out at 5.1GHz.

Cheaper for the non-Pro ones.

Non-Pros support 64 CPU PCIe lanes and 4 memory channels.
Pros support 128 CPU PCIe lanes and 8 memory channels.

[verbal raft]

how many cores does the highest end non pro one have ? 96 ?

[twin dew]

64 for non-Pro, 96 for Pro

[verbal raft]

(talking about the 6500 XT)

[verbal raft]

oh ok thx

650 for a 7900 XT

good luck with that

[tribal kraken]

Civ7 installed and graphics benchmark done with 9800X3D & 4090

[verbal raft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quhQXGnZ7CE

[night girder]

What settings?

[tribal kraken]

3860x2160 and high preset

Upscaling off

[pure karma]

last time i checked was before theadripper 7000 so im not exactly super up to date anymore

[twin dew]

Those were even cheaper at the top end.

Threadripper 1000s maxed at $1000
Threadripper 2000s maxed at $1800
Threadripper 3000s maxed at $4000 (no public MSRP for 3000 Pros)
Threadripper Pro 5000s maxed at $6500 (OEM only)

[pure karma]

must have been scalped ones that i saw then because yea lowest was $4800 highest was over $30K

and i very much remember sayign to myself "how on earth to people aford to run multiple of these"

[twin dew]

So you just keep falling for scams that are just "I don't have this, but I'll list it and if someone buys it, I'll just get something and make tidy profit"

[glossy glacier]

What missing competition does to prices...

[pure karma]

why would i care to fact check listings with no msrps ever being around what was anouced if i dont plan on buying anything

[twin dew]

Also moved from prosumer segment to pro segment.

[pure karma]

im not gonna buy a threadripper yet alone one for 30K

whether the listing be real or not

[twin dew]

AMD announced those MSRPs at same time as the CPUs, except for that OEM only Threadripper Pro 5000 series?

[pure karma]

MSRP's last a week if even

a cpu nerver stays at the price originally advertised

be it going up or down

keeping up with actual values for computer hardware is a 24/7 chore init of itself

[twin dew]

MSRPs are very important part of checking agains scams and bad deals.
Too low and it is probably scam.
Too high and it is almost certainly a scam.

Even when not "exactly" at MSRP.

[pure karma]

yea... except there always outdated

like no one in here is gonna buy a GTX 1660 super for $229 USD

its only viable for stuff that is basically brand new like 1-2 years old or less

anyway i dont care about msrp's right now

im busy raging at linux for being too incompetent to track gpu utulisation

[twin dew]

As in not as build to your current distro, already installed by default and broadcast so you can find it, solution?

[pure karma]

gpu monitoring isent by default on ubuntu only cpu ram and network

so im trying to make it work and iv managed to get everything other than utilization working but its playing difficult

[opaque grove]

this channel is really just you talking about cpu and graphics cards

[twin dew]

With sample of how many days?
As it varies a lot.

[stray badger]

Wahwahwah get mad at yourself for choosing poorly then

Gpu utilization is super easy to get running the only reason it doesnt work by default is that there are many different gpu drivers that report differently

Try using btop, should be able to show util on nvidia by just using official drivers

[verbal raft]

RXT 5.0%

+10% cores

for +12% more performance

👍

here is me realizing the 5070 might not even be as fast as the 4070 super

16% less cores ? yeah,no.

the 5070 TIE will prolly be +10-5% super TIE

[pure karma]

well getting the official drivers isent goign to happen because terminal just crashes

[twin dew]

nvidia-open replaced nvidia-dkms

[stray badger]

Thats the official drivers

[twin dew]

Yup.

[stray badger]

Noveau still exists, dont use it

[twin dew]

Read your message wrong.

[twin dew]

But whatever method you are trying to get the "official" drivers is probably wrong now.
And you are trying to run the old nvidia-dkms installer from Nvidia.

When you now instead just use the nvidia-open package from distro.

[pure karma]

the ubuntu installer has such a old version that it dosent have vulkan support so its causing problems

[twin dew]

That was the point in installing that nvidia-open package.
To replace the old distro installer included version of nvidia-dkms.

[pure karma]

what nvidia open package

[twin dew]

nvidia-driver-560-open

If on oracular (24.10)

[pure karma]

im not on oracular im on ubuntu like i said before and all i have is this stupid Nvidia settings app that does absolutely nothing

[twin dew]

oracular 24.10 is release of Ubuntu

[pure karma]

im on 24.04.1

[twin dew]

20.04 LTS Focal Fossa.
22.04 LTS Jammy Jellyfish
24.04 LTS Noble Numbat
24.10 Oracular Oriole

[twin dew]

So then nvidia-driver-550-open is latest.

[pure karma]

thats not a command

[twin dew]

I expected you to know how to install something from Ubuntus package repository.

That is the package name.

[pure karma]

how am i suppost to know how to install something that dosent exist

in a command line that dosent have the slightest bit of documentation

[twin dew]

What?
Ubuntu has preinstalled graphical tools to access those repos?
Not just command line tools?

How the fuck have you been installing anything over the base system so far?

[pure karma]

the app center with shit,shit and more shit

[twin dew]

When installing anything happens the same way, just that package name changes.

Then use that to install that specific package?

on command line it would simply be "apt install <packagename>"

As one of the options.

[pure karma]

the app center has literally nothing usefull in it

[twin dew]

search with that package name?

Did it give single result to install?

[pure karma]

no because i dont have root acess and i cant give myself root acess or something

it asks for a password but i cant type in the command line so termal is uterly useless

[twin dew]

You are trying that apt install one?
"sudo apt install nvidia-driver-550-open"

I meant for you to search in that app center top search bar with that package name...

[twin dew]

You can, it just doesn't show anything.

[pure karma]

the app center dosent have anything

[twin dew]

When asking for password.

[twin dew]

sudo apt update

to update that package listing from servers.

[pure karma]

uhuh

[twin dew]

I didn't tell to include that package name?

And that error says that "don't include anything after 'update'"

[pure karma]

then what

[twin dew]

Then that install command again, once that update has run.

[pure karma]

it says 364 packages can be updated

[twin dew]

which you would do with "sudo apt upgrade" or "sudo apt dist-upgrade", or there is almost certainly some GUI tool for that installed, if that app center doesn't have that.

[pure karma]

only update software is this

[twin dew]

There should be "Software Updater" / "Update Manager" installed by default and in the menu.

[pure karma]

this is such a pain in the ass

[twin dew]

Because you haven't read any of the user manuals intruducing these concepts and where to find them?

https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/ubuntu-help/index.html

[pure karma]

i dont have time for this

[twin dew]

Open Software & Updates via the Activities search bar.

Because that only told to use that App center thingie.
Which probably has what is needed but you just didn't check.
But I don't have Ubuntu, so I cannot check either.

But seems the official Ubuntu documentation is lacking.
It is missing both install guide and first steps guide at least.

Which should have included how to keep the system updated.

[mental oriole]

Shouldnt have to do anything to get nvidia driver

[twin dew]

Ubuntu doesn't automatically update between major driver versions.
And the default in that 24.04 is old.

And MagicZ has never updated any packages since install it seems.

So he is on driver from about year ago?

[mental oriole]

I'm on 24.04.1 (tbh my vm is like 3 weeks old)
and it has nvidia-driver-550-open

[twin dew]

If after "apt update" the system said there were hundreds of packages to update.

[mental oriole]

Update your packages...
Also if it doesnt find the driver package after that you could
try adding the ppa
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:graphics-drivers/ppa

[twin dew]

He doesn't seem to know how to manage packages or updates.

[mental oriole]

That's like linux 101

Anyways

[pure karma]

i have the latest driver but it uses the old one whenever i boot onto linux

[dire igloo]

wdym? Nvidia clearly advertised it with 4090 performance
they wouldn't lie to us consumers, would they?
noooooo... surely they wouldn't

-# /s

[verbal raft]

Lmao

[pure karma]

i managed to update it trough the terminal but it just corupted the driver and now the gpu is disabled so not much going on by this point

one reset later because this isent the first time iv had to fix it and its back

aparently also installed the driver update for me so i guess thats nice

altho it still dosent work and dosent support vulkan so still at squarre 1

[twin dew]

How are you determining you don't have Vulkan support?

[pure karma]

because it says so

[twin dew]

What says so?

[twin dew]

What says that?

[pure karma]

the gpu info thingy that i forgot the name of

Nvidia X server settings

guess it shouldent matter but still not having it despite it being supported on this gpu is suspicious

[twin dew]

You might not have the package "vulkan" installed.

Or might be libvulkan1

[pure karma]

nothing i can download other than the driver itself or atleast not automatically

[twin dew]

Yeah, libvulkan1

Again that sudo apt install libvulkan1
Or graphical equivalent.

[pure karma]

dosent seem to be a graphical equivilant and i dont feel like messing with the terminal any longer so il leave it until it becomes problematic i guess

[stray badger]

then why did you try to use a new operating system without making any effort to learn how to use it? if u didnt know mac and tried it for the first time your would get the same result too

[pure karma]

i wouldent because i wouldent have a terminal to learn and i know for the most part the apple ecosystem

and i used a mac in middle school for some class that i dont really remember and it was basically just the same except shift and ctrl were inverted

there is a fairly significant difrence to 100% of what you want to do being clic and everything is done for you vs 80-90% of what you do needing you to learn terminal commands that most the time only lead to more problems

just i expected the terminal to have a bit more common sense commands behind it and less haha random letters and numbers go BRRRRRRRRTTTTTTT

[dire igloo]

the random letters make sense once you know how operating systems work and what the command does

cd for example is to change directory
rm for remove

this is seriously just a skill issue

[dire igloo]

the idea behind the terminal is that once you found your way with it, it will be incredibly efficient

[night girder]

I wouldn't word it like that, I wanted to add, if you want to learn, it's not that hard. There are resources out there like man pages. www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/ls.1.html

But if you have no interest in it, and are not willing to look up commands and learn, then it's not a pleasant experience.

[dire igloo]

or like hundreds and thousands of youtube tutorials

[pure karma]

oh im sure theres a reasson why its like that but just like programing learning it by brute force because every tutorial i try to follow is outdated or dosent work for me is the problem

[night girder]

That's why you use the manual.

[dire igloo]

yeah, if you expect Linux to be a less proprietary macOS, you're in for a bad time

[pure karma]

yea well every time i use a manual i may aswell be reading it backwards because it nerver works out

[night girder]

🙂 Then maybe a UI is better for you.

But, it's not the terminal problem. Since so many people use it daily 😉

[dire igloo]

I've been there. and any time I got someone to look at why it worked for everyone else and not for me it was for one of two reasons:

1. I made assumptions and worked off of those assumptions.
2. I made a mistake much earlier in the process that didn't get caught then but is backfiring now.

[dire igloo]

eh, this is an incredibly unhelpful take in this situation

it can very much be a misconfigured terminal

[pure karma]

oh defedently and also the apps i use regularly being compatible but im not doing this because i actually plan on using linux in any way because i already know its worst for what i do regularly i just want to do it for the experience and this is already way more work than i see worth for such basic tasks

[night girder]

That's not what I am saying.

It was more a reply to: "just i expected the terminal to have a bit more common sense commands"

And for so many people, it does make sense since we use it daily without an issue,

[pure karma]

like the heck does echo stand for in a terminal

[dire igloo]

the terminal isn't designed to hold your hand, that's why we have mouse-navigation.
the terminal is designed to give you a lot of control in an efficient matter, you just need to learn how to wield that power

[pure karma]

is it tryna check if its last 2 braincells are fireing laser beams agains a wall somewhere

[dire igloo]

it's what I like to call the teacher's paradox:
the teacher is so familiar with the subject that it's totally inconceivable for them how someone could not know it

[night girder]

I am not saying it can't be confusing.

That's why I said, use the manual and learn.

But once you have the hang of it, it's a non issue imo.

And if you have no interest in learning, I understand. To each their own.

That's why there are UI anyway 😄

[dire igloo]

it's the eternal loop of "you need experience to do it, but the only way to gain experience is to do it"

[pure karma]

learning without the tools to learn is hard

[night girder]

No you don't need experiencce ffs.

Just read the manual.

And google.

[pure karma]

google said im tired boss

and crashed

so its clearly about as fed up as me

[night girder]

It's like literally learning any skill. Guitar. Or painting. Photography. You need to open a book or something. Then practice. How else do you become good at anything?

[pure karma]

winging it until you find something that works for you

[night girder]

Same with learning the commands and the terminal.

You asked about echo right? Here: www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/echo.1.html

echo - display a line of text

btw, I think you can do 'man echo' to open the manual of echo inside terminal.

[pure karma]

so what man stands for manual

[night girder]

manual

[dire igloo]

mentorship

[pure karma]

well thats 1 out of probably 70 trillion

[night girder]

you are typing in "manual echo" to give the manual of that command.

[pure karma]

and echo is text?

[night girder]

you can do "manual ls" to learn what ls does, what arguments to use, and how to use it.

[night girder]

it can also print variables that hold a value

[dire igloo]

like seriously, having someone take you by the hand and guide you through the jungle that is getting started is SO MUCH better

[night girder]

100% agree. But that's not always possible.

Don't give a man a fish, teach them how to fish.

[pure karma]

yea but thats not an option unless i piss you guys off for the next 6 months which il probably do anyway but thats besides the point

[night girder]

It's alright, we all have to learn.

[dire igloo]

it doesn't take you 6 months to learn it

maybe by bruteforcing technical documentation

[pure karma]

you underestimate my incompetence

[night girder]

www.man7.org/training/index.html

It's has a few pdf's attached to it to learn. Like it's not only bruteforcing. Just use the resources available.

[pure karma]

this website altho defedently over my understanding does seem like it could come in handy

[night girder]

They really do their best to provide guidance.

here is another one: linux.die.net

with a handy search engine if you need it 🤣

[pure karma]

well i guess im first of all gonna finish my performance comparisons now that i have started and then i might see what i can figure out on that website some time

seeing how iv started may as well finish and turn it into usable data to find out what ubuntu is good and bad at

[jagged snow]

Anyone here still using spotify desktop client?

Forces itself to system tray even though I can't find a setting to disable that?
Please, people
I don't want your software running all the time 💀

[charred relic]

As if you'd know better than they would... pffft

[severe obsidian]

(is that not what "help me" is?)

(thats, literally what i was asking the entire time last time)

[severe obsidian]

this is a satisfactory discord server..

[jagged snow]

Fair

[dire igloo]

And this is the off topic tech channel

[severe obsidian]

nvm

my bad, ur right

[jagged snow]

I've been gone long enough that people don't recognise me 😔

[severe obsidian]

set that to "off"

[jagged snow]

Yeah I'm aware, done that

[night girder]

https://tenor.com/view/it-turning-off-gif-19018125

if you haven't tried, you could try to toggle it on and off again to see if it's bugged

[jagged snow]

I did, and restarted pc

It seems like it might just reside in tray when the app is open and failed to properly stop the process last time I closed it.

[severe obsidian]

startup app in windows?

could try to disable that outright

[jagged snow]

Set to open minimized in spotify, not in the startup folder

[pure karma]

pfp chance probably dosent help i tought you were new aswell when you had just freshly changed it

[jagged snow]

Yeah it was unintentional 😭

I accidentally changed the other one and couldn't find the old image

[night girder]

oh, so that's why it changed

[jagged snow]

Yep

[night girder]

Was wondering for a long time why you changed the pic

I though it was for christmas or something 🤣

[jagged snow]

Pretty bummed about it

[jagged snow]

Nope 🤣

I'd had the old pfp for over 4 years

Sad to loose it

[charred relic]

I lost my old one too... but since it was just as 12AX7 tube not hard to replace lol

[night girder]

I have your old pfp btw.

I once took a screenshot, because your picture was similar to that of Fireworker2000.

@jagged snow want to see it? 😄

[dire igloo]

*unless you played the animation on my pfp

[night girder]

https://tenor.com/view/trombone-pusheen-musician-instrument-gif-11434220432919976776

I rarely hover over profile pictures

[jagged snow]

Hey, thanks!

I want to see if I can find the original because that's pretty low-res

But I may use that if I need to

[pure karma]

well so far 3D mark has resulted in a 5-0 to windows

curious what game tests will give

even if i know the likely answer

[winged valley]

How many days do you have? I'm at I think like 2250

[languid gulch]

days?

[charred relic]

Civ 7? Interesting

[languid gulch]

got a fun one

it's like some of my drives "re-plug in"

bluetooth resets, and a few of my drives pop open on my desktop

[pure karma]

how does that even happen

[languid gulch]

no idea 🤣

maybe i have too many usb things plugged in

[charred relic]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-a-tasy-burger-food-hungry-burger-samuel-jackson-gif-7649288

just made a burger that had me like...

[pure karma]

meanwhile im over here benchmarking all night noming on gummy bears

[charred relic]

nomnom

https://tenor.com/view/yo-piglet-this-edible-aint-shit-gif-19682644

[pure karma]

darn i need to slack on the youtube watching Holy

[charred relic]

lol

more like past week

[pure karma]

you got an adiction to updating windows or what? how on earth

[charred relic]

new install

game installs mostly

[pure karma]

thats like 40 windows installs

[charred relic]

well and some uhh ftp transfers 😄

that's not just windows that's GAMES

probably countiung every xbox for pc game in that

[pure karma]

im curious what mine will be tommorow after all these game downloads tonight

i literally installed cyberpunk 4 diffrent times earlier

[charred relic]

like the xbox entry shows 1.8GB which clearly isn't the games

lots of huge games installed from there

LM Studio makes sense since I downloadeda couple of fairly large models

[pure karma]

still surprised it shows up under windows update

[charred relic]

who knows what the logic is... should just be under the xbox entry but whatever

plus some of the stuff is uplay or EA via xbox sub

and it's all obv there too, like madden, assassins creeds...

I stuffed a 4TB drive in short order basically haha

it's times like then when i wish i'd kept the 1Gbps line instead of going down to 600Mbps

[pure karma]

i went up from 45/45 wifi and 450/450 ish ethernet to 350/350 wifi and atleast a gigabit ethernet i only have cat6 so idk it might even be more i just said gimmie the highest plan you got

world of a diffrence

especially the wifi improvement

[charred relic]

depends

if it's 6a you're good

if not it depends on how far the run is

which is gonna be long enough for most house installs...

that'll get you up to 10Gbps

[pure karma]

50+2 slack so 52Feet regular cat 6

[charred relic]

you're well within the rating for getting 10Gbps on it

even if it's not 6a

A lot of people want fiber and don't realize they really don't need it heh

In some regards it's... worse

Now if your LAN needs > 10Gbps then wtf are you even up to lol

[pure karma]

maybe its jsut really consitent at hovering a dang near perfect 950 on down and up but idk

[charred relic]

but yeah then just go fiber

ATT did a bang up job with the fiber internet install here though, got my termination point right in the middle of the house where the switch and hotspot go. My fiber ends feet from the router.

[wanton orchid]

unfortunately yes they "need"
the exact same way applications all expect you to have ssd
except it always been a problem for applications and bandwidth management

[charred relic]

no most home users do not NEED fiber LAN

[wanton orchid]

the point of fiber is not to saturate it

[charred relic]

I'm not talking about power users and niche cases

The average joe is going to get zero going from a copper twisted pair to fiber

[wanton orchid]

I'm taking about not crashing your TV show when you upload a mail

[charred relic]

well no, i take that back they'll get lighter in the wallet for it

copper can already do the SAME bw

over the LAN

no normal joe has 10Gbps of streaming going on at once

not even close

[wanton orchid]

no normal fiber Joe have 10Gbps line at all

[charred relic]

if your show is crashing from a mail

do you even hafve 1mbit?

[wanton orchid]

fiber != 10Gbps

[charred relic]

No but twisted pair can do that with the shit everyone has already

and again the averge joe does not NEED more

[wanton orchid]

a tv stream need at least sustained 10mbps

[charred relic]

if you aren't getting it done in 10Gbps you arne't an average joe

dude 10mbps out of 10Gbps

are you hearing yourself right now?

do you understand what a small slice of 10Gbps that is... plus guess what bruh

[wanton orchid]

you are the only one talking about 10gbps

[charred relic]

most folks... don't even have nics that are past 2.5Gbps

if not 1 still...

[wanton orchid]

say 10gbps one more time and I'm blocking you definitely

[charred relic]

10gbps

you don't understand bw apparently... thinking 10mbps is some big load

i wouldn't notice somebody using 10mbps on my 600mbps line...

much less... 10Gbps... i said it AGAIN

[pure karma]

very valid point tho

[charred relic]

10mbitt you hav eto zoom a fuciing graph to see it

on a 10gbps scale lol

WAY in

[twin dew]

I'm very confused when I try to understand what is going on.

[pure karma]

just random stuff for the last few hours

nothing important

[visual tree]

Our company already made guidelines regarding DeepSeek...

[languid gulch]

i like how there's basically nobody regulating it, so the worst a company can do is fire you for using it

[twin dew]

There is nothing about using it in personal use.
As long as you don't use company email to register.

Or use on company device.

First section says why it is bad idea.
Second section bans any interaction with it using company resoures or for company use.
And third section tells about alternatives.

This is why we banned it.
Whis is how we banned it.
Copilot is officially vetted and approved, for company use, use that.
And for private use you might also want to try these three alternatives.

Very reasonable memo.

[visual tree]

At least they are giving us a 1-year Perplexity Pro licence worth €233 for free (personal use)

Tbh, first time I am hearing about Perplexity Pro

[verbal raft]

Prolly meteor late

[charred relic]

Meteor Flake

[pure karma]

if they go back to the idea of 15th gen then what the hell socket is it gonna be on

are they just droping arrow lake

[charred relic]

it took an arrow to the cache

[verbal raft]

http.s://wccftech.com/amd-surpasses-100-million-gaming-consoles-this-generation/ (remove the dot if you are curious)

That's why AMD will always make GPUs

[manic cipher]

Guess what I can do with these parts.

[pure karma]

a camera

[manic cipher]

Yes and more.

Are you familiar with Soma Ether?

[narrow folio]

AFAIK it's a sound / synthesizer gadget for 'noise' generation

I'd say it could be a nice generator for random numbers

[verbal raft]

ALL THE E-CORES !!

"ERRROR LAKE REFRESH ??!!!"

[verbal raft]

i mean : cinebench accelerators

[willow pike]

so end of 2025 is 2 arrow 2 lake, 2026 we get nova lake which doubles core count and will suck back a billion watts

pretty fuckin' confident neither will be on intel 18A

in fact I'm pretty sure that process will fail to meet expectations and they'll still use TSMC for stuff

[pure karma]

52 cores for what even at this point

32P no E i think would be the peak cpu for me maybe like 6E cores just for backup and stability

everything else just pure clocks

[verbal raft]

simple : so that intel can keep wining in cinebench

with their cinebench accelerators

[pure karma]

fair but you cant even do that with them because to surface area isent big enough to cool them

[jagged snow]

Why would that be peak?

[pure karma]

because i dont see a single scenario where you would have more than 32 things that require a core exclusively to itself

only reasson its even 32 is because beamNG traffic cars came to mind

[mental oriole]

Wtf is an E core either way...
you got physical cores and logical cores...

[pure karma]

a turd

to keep windows stable

[willow pike]

smaller core

used to be known as intel atom

phones have been using different sized cores for over ten years

more smaller cores more efficient than fewer big cores, but big cores faster for stuff that doesn't multithread well, so you have some big, some little

the main problem intel is having isn't that having different cores is a bad idea, it's that their cores are shit

their big cores are absolutely gigantic and the single least efficient CPU designs on the market

their little cores are much more efficient, but still not as efficient as anything AMD, apple or qualcomm can make

[mental oriole]

I see. Thanks for the E core explanation because I had no clue 🤣

[willow pike]

is no problem

annotated diagram

that's a 14900K

the P cores are hyperthreaded, so they have two logical cores visible in the OS; the E cores are not

semi related; intel are making a Xeon with 288 of these E cores, codename Clearwater Forest, that the previous CEO literally bet the whole company on

and last week they delayed it till next year

[mental oriole]

Oof

No wonder everyone is going AMD 🤣

[pure karma]

very interesting results ubutu either loses by 30-50% or wins by 30-50% its nerver close other than on raft were they both got 22fps

[willow pike]

things are not good at intel right now

haven't been for like a decade but the rot is real visible these past few years

[jagged snow]

Knowing some people in the industry and with contacts there it really seems like there's a lot riding on the next 12 months for them

[willow pike]

pat gelsinger said, publicly and often, that he bet the entire company on 18A; projects cancelled, businesses sold off, all to put as much money into 18A as possible

not just for their own stuff, but to be a foundry other companies can use to make non-intel stuff with

clearwater forest is the premier 18A product, a many core big server chip

the company lives and dies on it

[twin dew]

To put money into that without affecting quarterly results too much.

Which is the stupid part...

[verbal raft]

they are density cores (def not efficient) the only thing they are good at is winning at cinebench (thats why i call them cinebench accelerators)
AMD also has something like this : ZEN 4/5 C (maybe ZEN 3 as well) but AMD doesnt use them in desktop

they are reserved for mobile and server

[twin dew]

And Zen C:s are exact same arch, just with lower max frequency optimization on the layout.

[tawdry aurora]

Ehm, they are efficient, however at the moment you need some alot of driver support to make it work

[verbal raft]

intels efficient cores doing some heavy lifting

intel being as efficient as a ZEN 1+ CPU

Im getting flashbacks

https://tenor.com/view/thanks-steve-intel-gamers-nexus-thanks-steve-gif-2570818544130153718

[pure karma]

the flaw with this is that i have no clue what the heck that cpu is because it uses 40 diffrent naming standards at once

H is laptop HX is unlocked Laptop S is for shit Ultra is for delusion and i guess an arrow falling into a lake is the effect this will have on the pc market

i dont think there is a single thing especially anoucement in the tech space right now that can genuinely be taken seriously

considering everything thats been going down

[charred relic]

pats the ole dual PIII Poweredge server

It's ok old girl... I'd never make fun of your CPU's like that.

[wanton orchid]

ultra refresh ing will not making the number change place on the web page

"Intel - our latest cpu is 40% less power hungry and 20% less performant, we are getting more efficient !
reviewers - except it's only 30% less power and 30% less performant
Intel - that's only 10% errors to be expected from specific test to test variance"

[charred relic]

@pure karma With the core counts that kinda gets into weeds regarding use case. But I'm not entirely sure most people need all those cores and as you pointed out a power user is likely more interested in the P cores.

[pure karma]

economy cores are fine just the fact that were seeing a 8P 32E ratio means you have atleast 20 cores doing nothing but waste power and generate extra heat at all times

[charred relic]

Well the idea makes sense on paper... assuming the OS can properly schedule them

[pure karma]

we have reached the middle of the sea saw and now were about to colapse twice as hard on the other side

all 8 of mine are doing something

just what is it exactly i dont have the slightest clue

is it important probably not

the shedualing is there just the question kinda becomes is it even worth it after a certain point

if with 8 none of them are even at 30% whats the point of 16,24,32 of them

im playing a fairly intensive save on timberborn curently so id say this is fairly indicative to a regular gaming load

i couldent imagine a use case for more

[pure karma]

either way in the end its not like we have much of a say in what the big corpos do

and i feel like going to bed so 🫡

[maiden coyote]

so while we speaking about intel.. apparently they've entered the ai race.

nivida.. followed by amd.. and now intel.

and amd

nivida.. intresting how they all look about the same die-wise.. no more ddr/gddr.. everything is hba memory

[jagged snow]

Speaking of AI, interesting failing of llms that I've learned. Because of the way that tokens are parsed, they're more or less unable to remove extra spaces from a string of text.

[twin dew]

Because HBM is better in almost every way, just very costly.

[maiden coyote]

Ish, saves pcb space, and the money spent routing traces for memory on the pcb, with a higher cost of memory. HBM is pretty much like a supersized cache for the cores in a way

[twin dew]

Interposer needed.

Which is the costly extra.

[maiden coyote]

which is why you don't see it on consumer cards very often.. or at all..

you don't see high vram on consumer cards either lol.

the 2080, has 11.. 30 and 40 series have 24.. and the 50 series gives you 36. for gaming you can argue that's all you need. but if you spend that much on a gpu it should be able to do more than just gaming..

[charred relic]

The card are getting pretty spendy

[maiden coyote]

I thought I wanted a 40/50 90 series because it would be good for LLM's and stuff.. but why spend that kind of money when you can get better peformance from a pascal series card from 2016 for what used to be a fraction of the price lol

the p40's have gone way up in price.. and the vast majority are coming from china on ebay if nobody buys them for what they're asking they'll go back down eventually.

but even if you paid 600 for a p40, you'll get 4 of them for 2400, which by the time you can find a 5090.. it'll cost about the same.. so $2400 usd for 32gb of vram.. or 96gb of vram

[twin dew]

And only the per card VRAM matters to when the performance tanks?

So 4 cards with combined high VRAM, but individually too low, is slower than single card with enough VRAM.

[maiden coyote]

larger models.

[twin dew]

Yes, and the point was that comparing total VRAM on multiple cards to single card doesn't work.
Yes, several older cards with smaller VRAM each can be faster, if the model fits into each card individually.

[maiden coyote]

it's the cost/value factor that matters, to me.. if it didn't I'd just buy A100 80G's lol

so cost per token/s

[twin dew]

And my point was purely that this VRAM comparison is just uselessly flawed.

[maiden coyote]

again, it's cost xD

value is a valid comparsion.

[twin dew]

I specifically said about the VRAM comparison part.

Those 4 cheaper cards work like single 4x power card with same VRAM as single one.

[maiden coyote]

not quite. a single card with more vram is better.

but the cheapest high vram thing is the digits with 128G for 3k

[twin dew]

Yeah, but close approximation.
That when comparing multiple cards to single card, you can multiply the compute power, but not VRAM.
If the thing you are doing isn't splittable to chunks that use less VRAM.

[maiden coyote]

the models can be broken up and spread across muliple cards.

[twin dew]

Still need the VRAM.
Cannot be broken in way that splits that VRAM use, without tanking performance.

[maiden coyote]

they do it with parallel interfacing. There is a performance hit, but it's not the massive hit the moment it has to hit systemram

I'm still learning about it, but from my limited understanding it offloads layers or blocks to the different gpu's.

this is more or less what I'm going off of. I've got no idea how I'm going to get it running with rocm, but I'll be the guiniepig soon github.com/turboderp/exllama

Maybe I'm thinking of training and not interfacing. xD

If so.. then I guess I spent more money than I needed to for a dual mi60 setup.. but I'll probably figure out a way to use the extra card

[willow pike]

yeah about that
techcrunch.com/2025/01/30/intel-wont-bring-its-falcon-shores-ai-chip-to-market/

[willow pike]

chatGPT's model is terabytes big, no GPU has that much VRAM; splitting is the only way it can run

[twin dew]

Ok.

[willow pike]

people are also splitting some of the deepseek r1's on three or four big RTX cards (not geforce. I think nvidia rebranded quadro to just RTX)

[willow pike]

vega? yeah uh. I don't think that's supported anymore

https://www.techpowerup.com/310764/amd-vega-architecture-gets-no-more-rocm-updates-after-release-5-6

oops

[glossy glacier]

They did

[tribal kraken]

The Quadro series naming is really confusing today. I went look for laptops november in Shanghai, and the official HP store salesman there did not have a clue when I asked for RTX Ada 2000 GPU 😄 He just tried to tell me that 2000 series (Turing) is really old. Little language barrier there but some browsing solved in and resultat that they did NOT have ADA generations for sale in that shop yet..

[willow pike]

thanks I hate it

just call it a fucking quadro RTX

is that so hard

why'd they have to make everything dumber

[glossy glacier]

Shouldn't it be RTX A2000 Ada?

We use RTX A5000 at work and the successor is the RTX A5000 Ada

[willow pike]

... they changed the GPU but didn't change the number?

why

[tribal kraken]

Yeah I thin RTX A2000 is Ampere like GeForce 3000 and Ada is same as 4000

My workshop desktop PC has Quadro RTX 4000. Withouth an A, which is Turing gen.

[glossy glacier]

The number indicates the power, like -60, -70, -80 for consumers. The letter A stands for the generation Ampere.
Then they followed up Ampere with Ada-Lovelace...

[tribal kraken]

Yes

[willow pike]

so call it AD5000

there's so many other ways of doing this than adding -Ada to the end of your model number when the whole ass GPU is changed

ugh

[glossy glacier]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tribal kraken]

Todays finnish tabloid newpaper has an article where someone trying to buy used 1500€ GPU at local McDonalds was attacked with a knife. Wild stuff 😄

[charred relic]

And that is why you don't go on that kind of adventure light...

[tribal kraken]

I was near that location last weekend. And had my 12900k + MB + RAM with me at the front of the hotel while waiting my friend to pick me up 😄 Guess nobody wants 12900k so bad anymore 😄

[charred relic]

I was thinking about that sort of shit walking to my car at Microcenter the other week...

I'm like shit I just carted like $1300 worth of shit out of there

But meeting somebody for some transaction is way different.

[pure karma]

sounds about right

the mcdonalds employee was defedently considering it too

no but seriously what on earth did you expect doing a deal at a mcdonalds in front of probably tons of people

[maiden coyote]

Yeah, I'm aware. I'll probably have to do some kernel pinning and fuckery. I had read somewhere that vm's don't work with them and that's a bummer.

[stray badger]

nope it rtx 5000 ada

[maiden coyote]

still confusing.

[wanton orchid]

you are talking about reset bug ?

vendor-reset vfio dkms module exist to almost fix that on Vega cards

with matching udev rules

[maiden coyote]

I have no idea what I'm about to get into with it. I ordered two mi60's and a x399 motherboard that includes a cpu after it starts comming in I'll be able to start trying to make it work lol

[wanton orchid]

I don't know mi60
but it does mi100 and vega 64

[maiden coyote]

apparently mi60 is the same arch as the mi50.. which.. well.. if it needs something at the driver level, I'll just have to work around it because it ain't getting an update

[wanton orchid]

which is vega 10 apparently

[wanton orchid]

it's mi50 which is same as mi60 actually

wait not vega10 apparently it's vega 20 instead

[verbal raft]

LMAO

im curious : could the devs add Hardware lumen support if they wanted to ?
the reason i ask is BC i saw this post on the QA site:
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/64934aca87a1e63b6cee6429

(i know that this is semi SF related but i dont whish to bring a fully technicall discussion into places where 95% of the people just want to share their experiance playing the game)

[twin dew]

Satisfactory would run very badly with HW Lumen.
Too many objects.

HW Lumen has different set of limitations than SW Lumen.

[verbal raft]

well : (

i just want it so that reflections wouldnt look like ass
#screenshots message

[twin dew]

And what makes you think using RT HW would cause any change?

[verbal raft]

well, look at SH 2 remake

its a massive improvement

[twin dew]

From SW Lumen to HW Lumen, inside same game?

[verbal raft]

yes

[twin dew]

That just says "RT" on and off.
SW Lumen is still RT.

So does that game even support SW Lumen or not?

[verbal raft]

but if it didnt have lumen on then there wouldnt be any reflections there at all

[verbal raft]

it does, and its forced

like every other UE 5 game

[twin dew]

No?

[verbal raft]

(okay,not every but most)

[twin dew]

UE5 doesn't force Lumen.
And you can do reflections without Lumen.

[verbal raft]

.

[verbal raft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1__k5Rkh6c=98s

[verbal raft]

go to 1:40* in his video

[wanton orchid]

Nvidia main selling point of technology is to actively confuse people about graphic processing and to confuse software and driver tech to hardware things
that still means most of Nvidia rendering "tech" talk are mostly bullshit

that's why there exists the rtx off rtx on meme

Nvidia "it's our hardware card technology"
*consumer buys hardware *
also consumer "why do I have to to pay subscription ?"
also Nvidia (to court) "but this is in software tool eula, it's not the hardware part"

this is a billion dollar company on a fake advertisement streak

[verbal raft]

*trillion 🤓

[verbal raft]

ive only just barely started win-dowes ffs

how do i turn this off ?

[willow pike]

it's preloading things it thinks you will need soon

[twin dew]

You don't.
That is stuff reserved for hardware like it says, the amount depends on what you have.

[willow pike]

if you load up a game that uses it all, it'll release it

[twin dew]

Disabling IGP completely will clear some, etc.

[willow pike]

windows memory management is honestly pretty good

[twin dew]

But 200-800MB is normal without large IGP reservation.

[twin dew]

No, that is UEFI/firmware level stuff, not OS.

It is never released.

[verbal raft]

i need my iGP for my second monitor though : (

[willow pike]

this is preloading

[twin dew]

Ah, sorry.

[willow pike]

is coo

[verbal raft]

is there a way to reduce the alocated RAM ?

[twin dew]

Yes, there is option to set the IGP fixed allocation from 64MB upwards somewhere in the UEFI/BIOS.
If MB maker side doesn't have it, AMD CBS will have it.

You can check the current by checking the GPU tab for IGP.

Dedicated GPU Memory for IGP will display the fixed allocation size.

Set mine to 512MB,

[verbal raft]

okay thx,will try 🙂

[twin dew]

But I don't think I have never seen UEFI machine with less than 200MB reservation.

[glossy glacier]

apart from iGPU shared memory it's driver stuff and can't be reduced
apart from useing less HW

[twin dew]

About 300MB is usually the norm without IGP.
And on some MBs or with certain cards etc. it can be 700MB even without IGP.

[stray badger]

the general idea behind modern memory management is: its there, so why not use it? If the ram is not needed for anything else, the os will put things it thinks you will need in it so that it loads faster

if you do need it, it will clear the space

[verbal raft]

What am i searching for in AMD CBS ?

[stray badger]

i wouldnt mess with that for a couple hundred MB of ram

[twin dew]

There is section for IGP with IIRC three options, one if it is force on, forced off, or automatic.
Another for the memory allocation.
And IIRC third about sound support for the video outputs.

Possibly under NBIO.

Very hazy memories, don't really remember, and not rebooting to check.

[glossy glacier]

sound support? you mean video+audio or just audio?

[twin dew]

Just check the menus and you will find it.

[twin dew]

If the video outputs support audio or not.
Default is yes/auto.

Just remember that it is there, as my Asus has the setting under Asus side and I used that.

[verbal raft]

quick question : what is "ARI" ?

[twin dew]

Alternate Routing ID.
Something you don't need to care about in most cases.

Or the other stuff in that specific menu location directly.

[glossy glacier]

ah, it's something for SR-IOV

[twin dew]

Not directly.
But usually devices don't need that without SR-IOV.

But if your MB was Asus, just use Advanced, NB Configuration, UMA Frame Buffer Size

[verbal raft]

Is this it ?

[twin dew]

And not AMD CBS side.

Yeah, that.

So I remembered that third wrong.

[verbal raft]

im kinda curious : what does UMA stand for ?

[twin dew]

Unified Memory Architecture probably.

Windows works perfectly happy with that 64MB minimum, even running Satisfactory etc.
Ubuntu didn't even boot to GUI with that.

With that IGP is primary/only GPU.

[verbal raft]

i dont think it applied : (

[twin dew]

Means something on MB maker side is overriding that AMD CBS selection, if you saved.

What MB?

[verbal raft]

some cheap gigabyte board

[twin dew]

chipset?

[verbal raft]

🤷‍♂️

[verbal raft]

B550 IIRC

B550M K

[twin dew]

Moment

[glossy glacier]

open msinfo
should be under baseboard product

[verbal raft]

(its written on the PCB )

[twin dew]

That was good enough, Gigabyte has "unified" BIOS manuals per chipset.

Settings, IO Ports.
UMA Mode: UMA Specified
UMA Frame Buffer Size: whatever.

[verbal raft]

i love my C-drive

[verbal raft]

will check that thx

[mental oriole]

C:

[twin dew]

If there is RAM free.
Bad things happen if IGP needs more RAM as VRAM and there is none to be had.
But for secondary GPU, that 64MB will be fine.

[verbal raft]

yeah, i have a dGPU so it should be fine i imagine

also : BIOS didnt save my changes last time

: (

i think it worked this time though

thanks for the help baldur !

[pure karma]

i found out windows only dosent like it if the system ever has gone into sleep mode

that was the source of the problem

dunno why but as long as i dont ever put my laptop into sleep or whatever it works just fine

it dosent try to exceed the ram available and die

[pure karma]

5G is great

[sharp oasis]

Windows is weird and no matter what. If its plugged in normally it won't recognize the gpu. Yet the gpu displays out during boot sequence

This for some odd reason fixes it

[twin dew]

Limit PCIe speed for that slot in BIOS/UEFI?

[sharp oasis]

Its limited to gen4 and was running fine before today

Yet. Now it refuses.

That's also a gen4 extender

[twin dew]

Were you using the riser in the install that didn't work anymore today?
Try with Gen3 in the normal position as diagnostic step.

[sharp oasis]

Did. Won't work

Displays out during boot refuses to be recognized by windows

[pure karma]

what in the fu......

is that gpu mounting

[sharp oasis]

This is also dual GPU too so there's extra silly things

[pure karma]

not to mention its upside down

[sharp oasis]

It was working before this morning

[pure karma]

fair enough 😂

[sharp oasis]

Like this

It was working normally before

Now its not.

[twin dew]

What happens if you switch the GPUs to others slots?

[sharp oasis]

Gpus both are recognised but the fans run against eachother so not ideal.

The lower gpu is slightly thicker

[glossy glacier]

Nvidia? Latest driver?

[sharp oasis]

Both amd GPUs

Driver is unrelated

[glossy glacier]

Fair, didn't see the Radeon in the pics xD

[sharp oasis]

Fair

[jagged snow]

@night girder thanks, got the old pfp back

[charred willow]

got it working

[verbal raft]

are you trying to use crossfire or something ?

[sharp oasis]

No

[verbal raft]

ok

[glossy glacier]

is anyone actually using crossfire?
i was pretty surprised my X870 MB still supported crossfire now that SLI is dead

[pure karma]

Probably since people still use sli

[winged valley]

Ark ascended servers guzzle ram :( (this is running 5 maps with 1 player connected across all of them)

[charred relic]

just download more ram

Finally got some work done on that...

[prime pasture]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1290363487595266118/1333643804632289382/IMG_1221.png?ex=6799a414&is=67985294&hm=9a20cc67f698126b7cf46080234a5652a74fda05ca9f5c2e75bae00fd211aac1

[twin dew]

Because Crossfire support doesn't need anything but multiple PCIe slots that are at least 4x.
So it is just marketing statement.
Crossfire is AFAIK just as dead as SLI in reality for newer AMD GPUs.

For SLI, MB makers had to pay Nvidia.

[languid gulch]

does crossfire apply to all the PCIe slots, or is it specified

[twin dew]

Doesn't care.
Each card just needs to be in at least 4x mode for driver to allow enabling Crossfire.

[languid gulch]

what about mixing nvidia & radeon, but using 2x radeons for non-gaming stuff

[stray badger]

you can

pretty easily actually

[languid gulch]

lol

[stray badger]

especially on linux

[twin dew]

But basically any MB ever, with multiple PCIe 4x or better slots, is Crossfire capable.
While for SLI to work, BIOS needs to contain paid for license key for it from Nvidia, and that cost at least several dollars to tens of dollars per MB produced.

[languid gulch]

looking at it now i don't think i could stuff 2 more GPUs in

[twin dew]

And Nvidia required at least 8x slots IIRC.

[languid gulch]

it would look hilarious to see a 4090, red dragon, and red devil all in one case

[verbal raft]

#NGREEDIA

[languid gulch]

hmmm. i wonder if i could run an older game on the 6800XT, but then use the 4090 to do some AI retexturing on the fly to make it look better 🤣

[charred relic]

Hey it's starting to look like something

[languid gulch]

the red PCB is a choice

i like it, reminds me of my USB hub

still kinda tempted to install it in the new pc, just to add that bit extra of overkill, bump it up to 25 ports

[charred relic]

Not like you can see it when I'm done lol

[languid gulch]

got this because my old pc only had 4 ports on the mobo

[charred relic]

I'd prefer black in my pc

[languid gulch]

the internal ones were great for the xbox dongle that's hilarious gigantic and prone to snapping

[charred relic]

A good one is less problematic than hubs in my experience

[languid gulch]

eh, was the original, and it was free

[charred relic]

I've had iffy ones... like I had one you couldn't write an image to a thumb drive on it, failed every time on any port

I need more usb 3.2 type c's

like 2 more... A's I probably have enough but if I get a card I'll get one that has both

[languid gulch]

idk, i think the red PCB on it might fly when it's like this

[languid gulch]

lian li fans?

[charred relic]

yeah

[languid gulch]

i like those

[charred relic]

Kinda want another set to push/pull the rad, put the plain ones pulling

normally not into led's but i've never been able to sync them this well before heh

They have those ones that are infinity mirror in the middle and another set i saw had lcd displays which looked cool

[night girder]

Haha that's nice. Quality doesn't seem too bad 😄

[verbal raft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KDA-h00VRc

[verbal raft]

speaking of PFP's i got a new one !

[soft bloom]

Do we have any observation to support that black holes grow from mass they "eat"?

I was just thinking of wtf the black hole is. And then remembered an odd thing: photons bend by gravity despite being massless.
I don't think I remember anything about photons attracting with their mass, but we have observations conforming that they are affected by gravity. Quite odd, innit?

[verbal raft]

*consume

[soft bloom]

Hehe
What if black holes are just rm -r commands freeing up disk chunks to be utilized by other, more organized matter?

[dire igloo]

Do you know r/Thorgasm?

[dire igloo]

It's not the photon that gets bent, it's spacetime. And since photons always travel linearly through space, they follow the bent path.
It's like saying a train always goes straight forward - it only does so as long as the tracks are straight.

Also, photons have a theoretical mass:
E=h×f=mc²
m=h×f÷c²
(h and c are constants, f is the frequency of the light)

And you should look into white holes too:
The equations we use to calculate black holes allow for a second result - a singularity that expels mass.
This is where wormholes come from - the idea that black holes and white holes are connected and that matter going into a black hole is bursted out of a white hole

They're merely theoretical tho, iirc there hasn't been a white hole observed ever

[sour glen]

Does anyone know how to fix games crashing when alt tabbing? (its happening to all my games) think its windows 11 24H2 being weird. Or the new Nvidia drivers.

[twin dew]

Try using DDU to clean up your GPU drivers, and then reinstall manually from GPU chip manufacturers site?

DDU:
https://www.wagnardsoft.com/content/Download-Display-Driver-Uninstaller-DDU-18092

[sour glen]

Thanks was thinking I should do that. Just didnt know if it was the right move or sounded like a driver issue.

[sour glen]

I have the guru3d one already. Same one right?

[twin dew]

If on AMD or Intel, let Windows Update install a driver after DDU, before doing manual install.
If on Nvidia, doesn't matter.

[twin dew]

Yeah, Guru3D repackages that original inside another zip with Guru3Ds marketing crap included

But the inner zip is exactly the same.

For the same version.

[sour glen]

I plan on following YT on it. Done it once before ages ago. ik u gotta go in safe mode and disconnect from the net.

[twin dew]

Not really needed to either.
That disconnect is for that Windows Update driver autoinstall.
And Safe mode just makes sure none of the files are in use, usually not needed either.

[verbal raft]

what is that

[twin dew]

If you know how to boot to Safe Mode manually, then use that.
If you don't, don't bother.

[sour glen]

I just did a fresh install of my PC btw (had to do a bios update and couldnt get past the bitlocker without wiping it clean. I did the usual sfx scannow ect ect and it said no issues.

[twin dew]

With AMD and Intel, you WANT that WU install to happen.
As otherwise it will install that driver version anyways over the manual one, and downgrade it.

[dire igloo]

https://reddit.com/r/thorgasm

[verbal raft]

oh

[sour glen]

Should I uninstall the nvidia app first? Or itll be ight?

[twin dew]

It gets nuked by DDU too.

So no need.

[sour glen]

Lmao the nvidia app gave me a noti saying its encountering errors so its deffo that

[soft bloom]

theoretical
yeah, but if we are going to list all the theories, models built on them etc, we would find out pretty much nothing without observations.
not everything what makes sense in math is practical in physics. one might hint at another, but without observations...

[sour glen]

U seem smart. While I have u here, any ideas what could cause stuttery frametimes in space marine 2 and dead space remake? Its why I had to do a bios update cause the support team there suggested it. I get stutter in satisfactory but UE5 is known for it.

[twin dew]

Check if that question is still relevant after that DDU run.

[sour glen]

Even thou it was happening before I wiped my PC? I thought that wiped drivers too.

Or do they stay on the onboard memory profiles of GPUs? (like the GPU bios)

[twin dew]

No, but I'm not going to use time speculating right now, before making sure the problem is still there once other more general problems have been fixed.

[soft bloom]

idea of wormhole makes interesting device for scify, but...
ok, so we coined black hole because they don't emmit almost anything (except Hawking), and gave high mass, so we believe they hold all that mass inside. which doesn't play well with idea that it actually spits mass somewhere, without any explanation on how that mass travels there, especially considering time bending (aka when? it comes out).
kinda like deposit - you get a hole in your wallet today, but when and where will you fill it back?

[dire igloo]

Sometimes, especially in physics, you need to postulate a theoretical idea based on maths, then design specific observation equipment around it - prime example particle accelerator

[soft bloom]

no offense, but science popularization isn't doing good service to science itself, when it tries to guess and fill the gaps with theories, instead of just straight up anwering "we don't know", even if followed by ", but we predict..."
and to most people that line is blured like evening sky gradient from violet to orange (there's green as well!!!)

[dire igloo]

It also contradicts the observation that black holes have varying masses - or that dying stars can collapse into black holes

[soft bloom]

yes, I agree.

[soft bloom]

btw, did we actually see the black hole in the place of what was a star?
I don't think modern astro has had time for it.
though maybe some older events of explosions were recorded

[dire igloo]

My brother in Christ, do you even know how much stuff scientists answer with "we don't know"?

There are BOOKS written about that:
https://www.amazon.com/Have-Idea-Jorge-Daniel-Whiteson/dp/1473660203

[dire igloo]

idk, but astronomy dates back hundreds of years

[soft bloom]

I know they do. but do they see that in science communication a lot?
I mean, I do see it. but not as often as presenting theories as facts.

[dire igloo]

Also: we can just calculate that behavior

[soft bloom]

we can model, sure. I am more interested if we got confirmation of such model.
or, to be more broad: did we get confirmation that too much mass in local space creates black hoke

[dire igloo]

1. You thinking that many theories are presented as facts is just you being picky and clueless
2. I literally just gave you an example of science communication doing exactly that
3. Science communication doesn't pay, research does

Just because YOU don't know it's true doesn't mean it isn't

[soft bloom]

I wasn't saying that what I am picking at is absolute description.

[dire igloo]

Good question, idk
Probably yea

[dire igloo]

If anything, you presented more theories as fact than any scientist I know