off-topic-tech

[edgy hazel]

I'd suggest you don't do that lmao

vpn shouldn't add that much overhead

[sand saddle]

Sounds like another thing to pay for tho

[edgy hazel]

nah host it yourself

depending on the router you can even set up the server there

[sand saddle]

AC88U for host, B818-263 for client

[edgy hazel]

Looks like there is a router infront of that one

[sand saddle]

A 5G modem

Let me log into that

[edgy hazel]

yeah gotta port forward on that

[sand saddle]

Fuck me I don't know how to

Ehhh gtg

[twin dew]

Nah, lot of DHCP servers now use hash of the MAC address to give the lease.
And if there aren't hash collisions, every device then gets "static" IP.

Setting that actual static lease just makes it certain.

[glossy glacier]

Depends in the implementation I guess.
But yeah, most home router dhcp's basically soft-reserve an ip until the pool runs out

[twin dew]

Nah, old way was to give IPs sequentially based on what was free.
And now most devices use DHCP server configs that do that hash based on MAC to give out the IP, and you can see that from how the IPs are all over the IP range the DHCP server uses.
And only if there is collision, then you don't always get same one.

No soft-reserve, no tracking when the lease isn't active, but via deterministic calculated IP lease from the MAC.

(except when the calculation has collision with another active lease)

Same result, but no need to save anything in permanent memory and still get same one even after router resets etc.

[glossy glacier]

guess I only encountered old implementations then ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sand saddle]

When you got a symmetrical plan for a public wifi

In a place with shitty 4G

[dire igloo]

Don't you have military shit to do or smth?

[sand saddle]

Just did the theory exam for CE-category driver’s license

Now waiting for my driver to get out of here

I didn’t want to use the shitty decades old Mercedes GD to drive here myself

And well, the driver’s course overall is full of passing around

Even when we got an activity, usually not everyone can do it at the same time

That was 2 weeks ago

[dire igloo]

Boring

[sand saddle]

We didn’t have any ammunition during that week but carried our weapons around to build the habit

Helps a bit against dirt getting in the barrel

But I just try to avoid ever letting the tip go into the ground like that

[sand saddle]

But it ends with this week

Then onto my IT-specialist position

And soon helpdesk apprenticeship of sorts for ~2.5 months, will certainly enjoy it as it’s a 15min drive from my home and should be able to get out daily.

[soft bloom]

does the flag have 3 or 2 color?

[sand saddle]

3

Estonia 🇪🇪

[soft bloom]

sun was giving it a bit of yellow flavor

but camo definitelly different

and i haven't seen a single knee protection here

[sand saddle]

Many knees are fucked nonetheless

Not from blunt trauma, mostly from excessive load

I got a 2nd MRT scan in 2 days to see how my left knee is doing

Free healthcare

[dire igloo]

You planning on staying in the military after mandatory service ends?

[soft bloom]

Would this work to lower 12V to 9V DC?
we talked about LM7809 before, but this chip is different
there's dial for output , should be more agile (12 -> 9, 24->9, 24 -> 12 etc) but idk at what cost
arduino.ua/prod650-dc-dc-ponijyuchii-konverter-lm2596-z-4-5-40v-do-3-35v

[ivory rampart]

550€ for the 9800X3D is cracked

I wish intel was doing better

[twin dew]

Uses this chip:
https://www.ti.com/product/LM2596/part-details/LM2596S-ADJ/NOPB
So just newer thing in adjustable variant (-ADJ), but with need for those extra components, which that PCB already has.

So 3A switching regulator with adjustable output voltage.

So one of the "more advanced" chips I did mention.

That 7809 is part long time "bottom of the barrel" series for regulators.
Just something that is easy to use and easy to get.

Basically anything in that Step-Down converters category will work as long as the input and output voltages and the current max are in the wanted range.

[soft bloom]

somehow resulting module is cheaper there

[pure karma]

one thing that annoys me about steam is you cant run different games on different computers using the same account

because if its on the same computer its just like... sure go ahead idc

[edgy hazel]

i wonder why...

[night girder]

There was a time of family sharing with steam.

[edgy hazel]

even that was only when the other device was offline

[night girder]

The system is not without limitations, however. Only one device or user can access the library at one time. The account owner is always given preference, but that means if you share your account with your child, only one of you can use the library at a time.

That was the only restriction I believe? And up to 5 people?

Never used it, just know it exists.

[low scaffold]

Hello there fellow Pioneer!
You're currently chatting in off-topic channels.

Please note, the entire off-topic category is reserved for not Satisfactory related chattery. To comply with your FICSIT Inc. contract, please make use of the appropriate channels in the Satisfactory category. Thank you!

Command executed by: baldurfi

Hello there fellow Pioneer!
You're currently chatting in off-topic channels.

Please note, the entire off-topic category is reserved for not Satisfactory related chattery. To comply with your FICSIT Inc. contract, please make use of the appropriate channels in the Satisfactory category. Thank you!

Command executed by: hergarian

[pure karma]

it exists but you cant run multiple games at once unless its on the same pc or none of the other ones are playing anything so its utterly useless

[little flume]

?

[edgy hazel]

read

[little flume]

is that supposed to be for me?

[edgy hazel]

yup

[little flume]

I asked a guy and he told me to send that here

[edgy hazel]

kill him

[night girder]

So, yeah. Only 1 account can log into the library.

[edgy hazel]

eh I mean he was wrong

[twin dew]

#1038092680493801533

[edgy hazel]

also, who?

[little flume]

underpatate

[warm jay]

hum ?

[edgy hazel]

you were wrong

[pure karma]

[warm jay]

oh i was ? sry then

[edgy hazel]

[warm jay]

where is the place for technical difficulties then ?

[night girder]

#1038092680493801533

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/

[dire igloo]

I thought there was a rumored/announced feature where this restriction was reduced from the entire library to the individual game.
Guess there wasn't, shame tbh

[warm jay]

this way you have to buy the game two time if you want to play it with someone else

[twin dew]

Yeah, AFAIK only one login at a time for specific account.
And with Family Sharing, only one playing specific shared game at a time, per bough copy.
With the owner having priority.

So MagicZ would just need to create second account and family share with it.

[warm jay]

you can shortcut some game tho and play it with an alternat laucher. like beamng drive and the beammp launcher

or just delet a file to make the game not check steam but i dont think its legal

[pure karma]

yea i know of that just its not a option for everything

[warm jay]

it wont work for most multiplayer game

[twin dew]

Won't work for anything with DRM, even Steams own.

[dire igloo]

Okay, but it's just the game being locked and not the entire library, right?
If I were to own GTA and BG3, can I play BG3 while someone else plays GTA?

via family share

[night girder]

It's meant for families; mom and dad go to work, one of the kids can play on the family shared account.

[twin dew]

Should be possible.

[night girder]

Dad comes home; kicks of the child of the account and plays CoD.

[twin dew]

But haven't confirmed, should be at per game level, not per account level AFAIK, but I might have misunderstood.

[dire igloo]

It's used for family: I own the game, my little brother gets to play it. I don't need to give my PC to him for him to play my games

Only question is: can he play my games while I play some other game?

[night girder]

No.

1 person can be logged into the account.

Priority: owner of the account.

[twin dew]

Point was, with Family Share the whole libraries under all the accounts in the family share should be a pool.

[night girder]

That's why I used the dad example, if dad is owner, if he is not logged in, other members can use the account.

[twin dew]

So have you tested that if "Dad" owns two games, is playing one of them, someone else in the share cannot play the second game as shared, when logged in via different account.

Point of that Family Share is, that you don't share the account.
Every one has their OWN accounts, just the game pool is shared.

With priority to each game given to the account that actually owns the game.

First come, first serve for the others.

[night girder]

I kinda lost what we are discussing here? Sounds to me we keep saying the same.

[twin dew]

You seem to keep saying that if Account 1 owns two games, and is playing one of them.
Account 2, part of Family Share with Account 1, cannot play the other game.

I'm saying they should be able to.

[night girder]

I never said anything about multiple copies of same game!

[twin dew]

That Account 2 cannot play the SAME game as Account 1, if the pool only has one copy in it.
But can play any other games.

[rapid ether]

I am not 1000% sure, but I think we have successfully achieved the constellation:
Main Steam Account (mine) and Second Steam Account (wife) -- her's is even a second windows user on our livingroom PC
I shared my games with her via family share.
And I'm pretty sure she was able to play a VR game while I was able to play something else on my gaming PC

[twin dew]

Two different games, one copy each, on same account.

You cannot even own multiple copies of same game, on same account.

[rapid ether]

Not sure if I can play with my own account two different games on two machines, but actually that should work... can test later

[twin dew]

So yes, that would confirm that any other game from the account in use can be shared.
Which I hadn't personally confirmed.

[twin dew]

No, Steam doesn't allow login at multiple computers at same time to same account.

It kicks the first login out if second is made.

[edgy hazel]

Family Sharing enables you to play games from other family members' libraries, even if they are online playing another game.
store.steampowered.com/news/app/593110/view/4605582245626919823 - Wed, September 11, 2024

[rapid ether]

but then in-home-streaming should not work and that I've used on multiple occasions

[twin dew]

Ok, I can misremember how it works.
Or it might have changed since the last time I did that on accident, LONG time ago.

But that was what started the conversation, MagicZ complaining he cannot play two different games on two different computers with same Steam account.

[night girder]

Also, not all games are viable for family sharing.

Developers of the game can decide if they want their title to be eligible for family sharing or not.

[twin dew]

And went into if Family Sharing with second account would work or not.

[pure karma]

it dosent it forces you to clsoe the other game running or asks if you want it to do it and if you say no its dosent launch

[twin dew]

With some seeming to say that even with Family Sharing, playing a game on one account would lock ALL the games on that account out of the Family Sharing pool.
And not just that single game.

[rapid ether]

could this be a regional thing even? like some EU regulation forcing them to allow more where I live?! -- wild speculation.
I'm intrigued now and want to try this later.

[pure karma]

you can launch 40 diffrent games at once as long as its on the same pc but if you try to launch 1 on a pc an 1 on the other it wont let you making everything this system is trying to avoid useless because you can do it anyway

[twin dew]

Yeah, forgot it isn't allowed for all games.
But if it isn't allowed, then it is never part of that Family Share pool of games.

[rapid ether]

So, I just did the test, started shapez.io on my livingroom pc and starting torchlight II on my old laptop has the laptop telling me that I'm already in a session on that other machine and that it will be kicked out

[pure karma]

aka exactly what i said earlier

[rapid ether]

same steam account, same internet connection, Germany -- in case that matters

[night girder]

Mercedes has a developed "Solar Paint", this paint on cars will add 12.000 kilometers per year for electric cars based on lightning conditions in Stuttgart. So, Mercedes tested this in Stuttgart. Interesting development.

I just wonder how practical and realistic this new car paint will be.

What if you have paint damage? How easy is this to fix? How costly will this be?

[rapid ether]

Many years ago there was a startup creating a van with a solar roof and sides.... back then it didn't do much to range...
In Germany and especially the dense regions of which Stuttgart is one - the outside parking spots are very limited, especially in the city centers. So underground parking is almost enforced for new construction... Not saying that would be stupid, if it extends the range while driving, if it helps people on the outskirts to charge it's still good... but yeah, I also wondered about scratches and dents

[hollow wagon]

What if they make it out of the potassium glass to make it scratch resistant

Like an phone screen

[rapid ether]

well, it also needs to be able to flex, otherwise it will crack when somebody leans on the car...

this sounds like a 20k € paint job to me... would want to park that anywhere public 😄

[night girder]

Also, the 20% efficiency is very questionable.

It's data from Mercedes, so I think it's optimistic.

[rapid ether]

especially not in europe/germany where the parking spots are still being made according to car-dimensions from the 60s

[night girder]

Maybe we should stop producing cars that are just too big 😄

World: oh no, cars are ruining the world. Also the world: we want bigger cars.

I made the same point a while back, that half of the pick up trucks (US ones for example) can't even park here, just because of how tiny the parking spots are here.

[rapid ether]

part of the problem is, that mandatory safety features need room, but yes, only part of that... currently looking at going electric and I hate that there is basically no car that would work for me, just SUVs or tiny cars I wouldn't fit in...

and since we're a one-drivers-licence household - and that will most likely not change, ever - a second car also makes no sense, yay

[night girder]

Well, car manufacturers are still able to make small cars with all the EU regulations in it.

So I am not sure if that really is the reason why cars got so big over the year.

[twin dew]

Need to be bigger on outside for same cabin room.
But mostly about just giving more cabin room.

[night girder]

Haha, this is cute:

[rapid ether]

cabin room is also a weird thing... years ago when I was "shopping" for the current car, I looked at audi, vw, skoda, same "outside" dimensions of the car, huge difference inside... felt like they are pushing people to buy the bigger cars by reducing the space inside...
I didn't fit in a VW arteon height-wise, I was hitting the roof with my head or I needed to lie down so far that I couldn't reach the steering wheel... 😄
but apart from that... almost no wiggle-room in an A4, so I would have needed to go with an A6, which was less roomy than a Passat. Went with an octavia which is a bit smaller than passat but about as roomy - driverside....
Although with electric that will be a whole other story, with floor-mounted batteries - test-drove the polestar 2 once, I almost didn't get in. and for some reason they put a bathtub in for a middle-console, felt like a coffin

[twin dew]

But todays people actually fit inside that modern Mini, unlike the old Mini.
And the new Mini isn't absolute death trap in any collision.

[night girder]

People did get into the old mini.

[twin dew]

Yes, but it is pretty cramped.

[night girder]

Don't forget, it has less crap on the inside too.

[jagged snow]

Yeah, I'm definitely on the side of cars being too big

The ultimate comfort isn't even what I'm looking for in a vehicle
Its a tool, not a luxury experience

[rapid ether]

I think it's a mix.... people are used to have a bit more space as opposed to just being used to be cramped into old cars... but also "door thickness" etc. was lower on older cars

There are other examples than Minis, though... especially around those massive SUVs and Pickups... they often just waste space... like under the hood, where the mechanic could almost just stand upright next the engine etc. 😄

[jagged snow]

Heh

The problem with that is that conventional rwd or awd drivetrains with v or inline engine layouts require a lot of length but not much width
So there isn't much way to make it smaller without pushing the engine back up under the dash so far that you have to drop it or lift the body for most repairs

Which has and does happen, and adds several thousand to the cost of many otherwise simple jobs

[night girder]

Maybe electric engines can push the size down?

[glossy glacier]

Shrink and slow cars and you reduce the need for bulky safety features.

[rapid ether]

yes reversing the "arms race"

[rapid ether]

the problem is the large and heavy battery at the moment. Some eSUVs here are so heavy they're not allowed to park on the pavement -- not that anybody checks -- the limit is at 2.8 metric tons or so...
A lightweight and compact electric energy storage solution would be super-cool, and I'm sure some people way smarter than me are working on it, but apparently they have some obstacles 😉

[jagged snow]

That space is just being moved over to cargo
It would be possible and very effective to make a small ev, but margins are lower and that's not what the market wants

ice couldn't even compete in the catergory of very effecient, small, and cheap "economy" cars here in the us

[jagged snow]

No way electric will be able to

[twin dew]

And US car market has almost nothing to do with rest of the world, in any way or form for what people want.

[languid gulch]

i do appreciate that compact SUV (or what i like to call oversized hatchbacks) are starting to show up more in the US

fricking love my Bolt

[dire igloo]

A lot of eSUVs are so heavy that they aren't allowed to pull a trailer - which is one of the biggest advantages of EVs

[twin dew]

US towing ratings etc. are just weird.
And you have excessive (for Europe) weight on tongue etc. to deal with people towing at excessive speeds with bad trailers etc.

[languid gulch]

what i absolutely hate is how i felt pressured into getting a larger vehicle because of everyone else's stupidly inflated & lifted pickups. you feel like you have no choice to go bigger or be at serious risk of instantly dying in a wreck around here

[twin dew]

Which also goes into US seeing driving license as a right, not something that actually needs to be earned.
So the driving education and testing is really lacking, leading to lot of dangerous drivers on the road.

[dire igloo]

Which makes you part of the problem

But yeah, as a cyclist, I completely agree.
These gigantic SUVs are just super frightening

[twin dew]

But basically needed with the way US system is split between Trucks and Cars, where Trucks can be death traps for anyone else.

In crash situation.

[rapid ether]

for me it's the pressure to get an SUV which I still resist with every fibre. With the switch to working from home, my long commute got reduced to almost nothing so the advantage of the Diesel is rather a disadvantage at the moment, but a car that is fully paid off doesn't apply too much pressure.

[night girder]

Well, they want us to believe that driving is a privilege, not a right.

[twin dew]

Well, the country was changed since 50s into a one you cannot live without a car.

[languid gulch]

i know, but i also limit my driving when i can, which i hope helps

[night girder]

Counter argument: but I am a free person. As a free person I can drive.
Counter counter argument: you live in a society where you can harm other people, they are also free to live.

[languid gulch]

but i also didn't go that big with the Bolt 🤣

[night girder]

I don't know who is right. I just know the arguments 😄

[dire igloo]

Your freedom to swing your fist ends where my nose begins

[languid gulch]

it's just bigger than what i used to have, & a TON safer

plus when i bought my old car i promised myself it was going to be the last gas car i owned

[night girder]

Counter argument: but today, whatever you do is a swing that hits your nose. I know this argument far too well.

[dire igloo]

Ironically, SUVs are less safe in basically every other scenario than car vs car

[rapid ether]

I could comment that in a very dark and cynical way -.-

[night girder]

Point I trying to make, there is logic in all arguments.

[dire igloo]

Then you should probably take a step back and reflect whether you're actually around oversensitive people or just being insensitive

[twin dew]

Yeah, but point is, when US vehicle made to "Truck" standards hits any US vehicle made to "Car" standards, the car will take lot of damage.
Because those trucks don't need to have crash zones etc.

[night girder]

Mhh. How can I be insensitive, if other people are sensitive?

[dire igloo]

No, there is logic in some arguments and misdirection in others

[night girder]

No, you just don't like reading it because it doesn't fit your narrative.

[languid gulch]

i used to have an ancient pickup, & i absolutely hate the trucks made today. they're so useless

[dire igloo]

"anything you do is offensive nowadays" isn't a logical argument, it's an emotionally loaded statement unfit for any rational discussion

[night girder]

1. I am not saying which argument I agree with.
2. I am stating I know the arguments, from discussions before. I know that people think in different camps.

[dire igloo]

Insensitive in regards to you don't care about surrounding and just flail your arms.
There's probably a better word for that

[night girder]

Freedom as a concept is such a heated topic anyway and people view it differently.

[dire igloo]

Doesn't matter what you agree with, you asserted logic to an argument that doesn't have it

[night girder]

I disagree.

LOGIC: We have more and more people around the world, we have more and more diversity in opinions. So people clash more often.

[night girder]

Again, you disagree whatever doesn't fit your narrative. And call it "not logic" just because it's not logical for you.

[languid gulch]

i'm waiting for a car with a superhydrophobic interior that i can just hose off

[night girder]

What do you do with your interior? 😄 I mean, how does it get so filty you wanna hose it off.

[dire igloo]

I like the German constitution in that regard:
Article 1: human dignity is inviolable.
Article 2: every human has the right to freely unfold their personality as long as it doesn't violate other's rights or the constitutional order. Every human has the right to live and be free of bodily harm. A person's freedom is inviolable. Only laws are allowed to impede upon these rights.

[glossy glacier]

America, the land of the "free"
But you are not free to choose your mode of transportation. It's car or die

[dire igloo]

Article 1 was cut drastically short, but that's the gist of it

[languid gulch]

i want an interior that i can treat like the bed of a truck, but won't age like that 🤣

[night girder]

Again, I think it's more sensive, to just trying to understand both sides. Than: I pick this side, and I am not even going to try understand the logic of the other side. They are just wrong. There is no logic. End of story.

[dire igloo]

I logically explained why the statement has no logic.
The only way it can hold up is by creating straw men.

[dire igloo]

This logic has one key flaw: disagreement on opinion isn't offense

[languid gulch]

also can we have a global ban on using piano black plastic in cars?

[night girder]

To go back to root of argument, I can see where some countries come from when they see car driving as a right. And I can understand that some countries see it as a privilige.

The fact that we have this happening in the world, proofs my point.

[dire igloo]

Ironically, that's what you're doing rn.

Side 1: I want to be respected in who I am and what I want to be.
Side 2: lol no fuck you

Side 1: can't you just leave me alone please?
Side 2: no, you have to be on my side and if you don't like that, sucks to suck

Side 2 is objectively wrong in both of these instances.
You state that one should always consider both and try to find the logic in both.

Look up enlightened centrism.

[night girder]

Because why would one say: it's a privilige, and a other say; it's a right if they weren't sure they have a solid case of logic?

[glossy glacier]

The US un-railroaded themself into the first

[night girder]

No, that's your interpretation of what I am saying. 🤷‍♂️

[twin dew]

Also half-dismantled lot of cities and inside city mass transport systems etc.

[glossy glacier]

As I said, un-railroaded

[night girder]

Days ago I said I view car driving as a privilige and went into why I never drink and drive etc.

[twin dew]

You get privilige to drive a tool of mass deaths if wanted.

[night girder]

Now I say that I can understand why some view it as a right because "we are free to do what we want" it doesn't fit your narrative and I am the baddie 😉

[twin dew]

When you demonstrate you can actually use it responsibly and with enough skill.

To not be constant danger to everyone else.

[jagged snow]

Interesting conversation here but y'all are really toeing the line on politics 😄

[dire igloo]

I can see the logic in both and it comes down to who the burden of proof is on:

Do you need to prove your ability to safely operate a vehicle?
Or does the government need to prove your inability?

This has to be decided on a right-by-right basis

[jagged snow]

I think we can all agree that mass transit is more effective and economical on a whole, but allows less individual flexibility and requires more thoughtfullness and planning in your schedule compared to personal vehicles

[dire igloo]

As is what you said about me

[languid gulch]

yea if we didn't have dogshit mass transit around here i might not even have bothered with a newer car

[dire igloo]

I don't dismiss anything as illogical merely because I disagree with it.
I dismiss things as illogical because I fail to see the logic

[jagged snow]

As someone who commutes on bicycle/bus currently, and is from a very rural area, I think I've seen both sides of it? And frankly it just doesn't take that much to commute car-free. However, I would not be willing to give up the abilities owning a car gives me

[dire igloo]

Thing is: that's a matter of opinion and there can be endless debates on it.

But there are portions of this discussion that aren't up for debate. For example: people that are proven to be incapable of operating a vehicle should not be allowed to do so.

[jagged snow]

It's just too valuable and in a lot of ways, especially in rural areas, critical to my lifestyle and the things I like to do.

[glossy glacier]

Owning a car should be a choice, not a requirement

[night girder]

in a perfect world

[jagged snow]

Oh, ideally 🤷‍♂️

But my point is that when it comes down to it, in a lot of areas, it's a choice that very few would willingly give up

[languid gulch]

we have buses here, but it's downright suffering to wait at a stop when it's 50C. and nobody's build an underground tunnel here because it'd cost a billion per km easily

[night girder]

A car is so convenient.

[jagged snow]

Same here but opposite problem 🤷‍♂️
Waiting at the bus stop in -10f with tons of wind is a miserable experience

Especially because there's always a chance they cancle the bus if there's too much snow

So I just end up driving 🤷‍♂️

[night girder]

what about doing grocceries? And what if you need a lot of grocceries?

[jagged snow]

There's incredible waste and inneffeciency in the generality of public transit

[night girder]

You put it all in bags carry it on public transit?

[jagged snow]

For me?
I have a grocery store close to my house that I walk to if I need just a few items, otherwise I drive

[night girder]

Or you do it multiple times with the bicycle?

[jagged snow]

Because our bus system specifically does not allow this

[jagged snow]

You can get trailers for your bike that allow you to carry more than enough

[night girder]

and what about deep frozen grocceries during the summer?

[jagged snow]

Oh that's not an issue, just a few layers of paper bag or a blanket will keep them safe for an hour or more

But I'm with you on this, I think

As I said, I simply wouldn't give up what my car offers me even if I can commute on public transit most of the time

[night girder]

I wouldn't give up my car. Just find it too much fun to drive 😄

[languid gulch]

we're also way too low density to justify something like a metro system. 5 million people in 40,000 sq km

we are prime for a mass electrification of cars tho

300 days of full sun a year

[night girder]

I also use my bicycle sometimes, but like now, I would need to spend 30 minutes on my bicycle to get some fries, than 30 minutes back, fries are going to be cold.

[jagged snow]

That as well

[night girder]

I think we need multiple solutions to reduce car ussage.

[jagged snow]

And for me, I'm very very often driving 20-30 miles up into mountains on gravel roads in areas with literally no population 🤷‍♂️

Not gonna do that with anything but a car or orv/utv

[twin dew]

And still most of US has completely given up on the fun-stick to extent that manual gearbox car models aren't usually even for sale anymore.
Even for car models that have that for several variants in EU.

[night girder]

1. Produce locally. Work locally. Shop locally.
2. Better public transit.
3. Investment in infrastructure for alternative transportation; bicycles, steps, horses, .... (atleast for my country).

But I think number 1 is most important.

But for jobs, a lot of offices are in cities. So you get hotspots where people all go too, and most use a car in my country to get to the cities.

[jagged snow]

As far as I know, there are only three models on sale in the us with a manual at all for my2024

[jagged snow]

A lot of it could be addressed by mixed residential/commercial zoning, which is unfortunately rare

[night girder]

Yeah ... agree. But that's rare over here.

[languid gulch]

i 100% agree that driving licenses around here are way too loose, which is why i consider myself spoiled that my school had driver's ed, complete with a driving range, and insurance paid for dedicated lessons in exchange for a long-term discount

they killed off funding for it a long time ago, but the range had about a dozen cheapo cars, a radio station for the teacher to give instructions, chicken brakes in all the cars for emergency intervention, a 4 way traffic light, a hill, & standard lane lines plus parallel parking zones

and this was a public school in the US, not private

[night girder]

We learn to drive on the road 😄

[languid gulch]

we do that too

but this was good for 15/16 year old students

[night girder]

my driving school didn't have any off that. It was just parking lot, quickly driving on the lot itself (5-10 minutes?) And then hop on the road.

[languid gulch]

this was also way before driving simulators were a thing

[night girder]

I like it Cuyar.

Still reminds me I have to go for my crash course. Not mandatory in my country, but I want to take it.

[twin dew]

https://ajokortti-info.fi/en/getting-driving-licence/driving-examination
https://ajokortti-info.fi/en/getting-driving-licence/hours-and-content-driving-licence-instruction

[languid gulch]

the district/city paid for it for 30 years because every time it came up for a funding vote, insurance companies would show up at the council meeting to show how it more than paid for itself in fewer wrecks & tickets

[twin dew]

And those are recently lowered standards, that immediately hit on first try completion percentage HARD.

As in tens of percentage points.

[languid gulch]

i love the idea of income-proportioned traffic fines

[night girder]

I want a point system for licenses. X points = lose license.

[languid gulch]

that too

at some point you're a shit enough driver that no fine is adequate

[night girder]

Isn't that in affect in some states in the US?

[languid gulch]

some

most i think

[twin dew]

Here you can even have your vehicle taken over by the state if you keep fucking up enough.

[night girder]

Oh here too. But that's ordered by a judge.

Not based on a point system.

Point system seems more fair to me than judge.

[languid gulch]

here it's 24 points in 3 years. violate too much & you get your license suspended

[twin dew]

Also you can lose your license for a time or permanently.
For example three times caught speeding in a year for temporary one.

In addition to those income related fines

Not straight points system, but somewhat similar.

[languid gulch]

iirc here you don't get your car taken away unless it's reposessed for nonpayment or the vehicle itself is too dangerous

oh yea we also have license revocation

it's mainly for repeat drunks or senility

i don't want to jinx myself, but i've never been in a wreck or gotten a ticket 🤣

well, no wrecks on-road

i've done some damage while offroading in a vehicle designed for it

insurance is still required, but it was so crap of a vehicle that it's not worth claiming

[safe trench]

most of the time people get into wrecks because of the other people on the road

like the white californian girls who just got their license and is now looping the starbucks drivethru

[jagged snow]

Well, somebody is always the "other people"

[twin dew]

One rim while I lost control way back during winter and ended up backside forward in ditch filled with snow.
Not broken but steel rim that got out of true, so was used for the spare from then on.
80km/h speed limits on small roads during winter still, so wasn't even probably speeding, but still too much speed.
Corrected two times after rear started to slip on on first curve, in right, left, right curve, but lost it on that last one and ended in the ditch next to next straight.
During winter in night so could see if anyone was coming head on from lights long time before.

Then one headlight broken in collision with guardrail, when approached intersection too fast for the ice in it and went straight, almost stopped before the hit.

And then crack in plastic bumper from another similar case, car before me stopped unexpectedly to let pedestrian to pass, didn't have enough grip to stop in "new" used car that had overaged winter tires with no grip, so had to drive into hard snow to not crash into the other car.

Those tires got replaced next week.

[night girder]

Not always, I can be driving and just wrecking my car by hitting a tree without harming anyone else.

[safe trench]

and cannot go 00.1 nanosecond with out it so they speed

and dont see anything

[night girder]

I think what lizard meant, is that it's the fault of someone else.

[jagged snow]

That wasn't my point

[jagged snow]

Yes, and I'm saying that somebody is always that "someone else" that's at fault

[night girder]

Like, I drive reckless and I take multiple innocent people (drivers who are not reckless) with me in a car wreck.

[safe trench]

frfr

gotta get that 5 star wanted level

[night girder]

Well, rarely we get traffick accidents where nobody is at fault 😄

[safe trench]

(im being joking for your info)

[night girder]

Like, slippery ice spots on the road that you can't see.

[safe trench]

anyways what im trying to say is

most accidents that ive gotten into (or saw in live footage on the road) were someone elses fault

[night girder]

You saying that people tend to blame others? I agree 😄

[jagged snow]

I've had one vehicle on vehicle collision(only paint scuffs and a crack in my bumper) and did similar thing and buried my car in a snowbank on an icy highway even going 30km/h below the speed limit with nice studded winter tires

[safe trench]

i mean if its a nissan altima in the crash you can tell its the nissans fault

[twin dew]

Hadn't noticed they were almost 10 years old at that point, just saw they had lot of surface still and were good make.
And first time the grip was needed.

[jagged snow]

Yeah I'm just saying it's a rather pointless justification because it depends entirely on who you're talking to

[night girder]

I have some paint damage on my car because of a freaking truck on the highway just firing rocks at my car like it were bullets. Got also a crack in my window because of that one truck. Don't know what it was carrying, but it was flying all over the highway. 130 kilometers per hour.

[jagged snow]

The real argument you can make is that fault in collisions is anything but evenly distributed across the population

[twin dew]

But that first time was intentionally going out and "speeding" safely during winter on public roads.
Just that the speed limits on Finnish back roads are way higher than you can safely drive them at, even during summer. 😆

[safe trench]

always try and stay away from trucks

[jagged snow]

Our backroads have no posted speed limits

So same sort of deal

[safe trench]

autobahn?

[twin dew]

80km/h on anywhere with no posted limit here.

[night girder]

I never had issues with any trucks, but this one was VERY large and heavy. And I was a fair bit behind it, like 3 cars behind it. Still, the weight of the truck + speed was launching tiny rocks everywhere.

[jagged snow]

Our standard is 35mph when not posted

[safe trench]

wild

now imagine if the tesla semi takes off

[night girder]

it was convoi execptionale.

[safe trench]

that guy will speed like crazy on the highway

[jagged snow]

No 💀

[night girder]

something like this:

Normally they can't drive during day hours, but they don't give a shit about the rules 😄

[twin dew]

But I had also made mistake when fitting winter tires that fall, I had put worse tires on the back for front wheel drive car.
So that made it lose traction in the back as first warning, and then that flip.

[safe trench]

sounds like the entiritey of the i605 freeway.

[night girder]

and if they drive, they have a car in front of them and behind them marking it's a convoi with lights

[twin dew]

But pretty cheap learning experience in the end.

[night girder]

but that wasn't the case either.

[twin dew]

One new tire, and need to get people there to get the car out of the ditch with tow rope.
No need for paid service.

[safe trench]

"i dont wana replace my tires, but ill replace the whole car however" people are so stupid

[twin dew]

Nah, up to certain size, those oversized loads can drive during the day.
Only extra-oversized needs night.

[safe trench]

replace < upgrade

[night girder]

I don't think that's the ccase in my country.

Atleast they always told me that convoi exceptionnel have strict rules.

[twin dew]

Strict rules, yes.
But that night-only is only for larger subcategory here in Finland.

And AFAIK that too is hegemonized in EU.

That size in the pic would need cars before and after etc. to get everyone slow down and pull to side.
But could drive during the day.

[night girder]

That's for "accompaniment" of other vehicles. So it's 1 from a certain size. 2 and 3 for other sizes.

These are the times they are forbidden to drive. For highway.

[twin dew]

Ok, so not hegemonized then, as that is already in effect since 3.5m width.

That night-time is here for loads that need disassembly of infra, or taking ramps in wrong way to get around bridges etc. AFAIK.

Or driving on wrong side of middle divider because of those ramps etc.

Stuff that causes major disruptions, and not just that everyone needs to pull to the side for minute.

[night girder]

1. saturday 12h untill monday midnight: forbidden
2. On official holidays from 16h untill midnight: forbidden
3. From 7-9h and 16h-18 (rush hours): forbidden
4. If larger than 30 meters or wider than 3.50 meters, not in between 06-21h.

And there is a reason for that! Because they are freaking dangerous lol.

[visual tree]

Fun moment on a highway is when 2 trucks have a speed limiter and one tries to overtake another one

[night girder]

You know what they do here?

They go to the side of the truck, to be sure your light will shine in it's side mirror. And then start turning on the big lights.

[visual tree]

Probably take both lanes and drive like that for 5 minutes lol

[night girder]

Untill they move out the way. Super aggresive, but I've seen it happen (a lot).

If that doesn't help, honk untill they move.

But often I see trucks do this maneuver when they see there is no traffic to block. These are the best truck drivers in the world, I love em.

[visual tree]

Also, there was a traffic nightmare today when returning from work since traffic lights stopped working and nobody follows the rules

[night girder]

Aren't the rules a bit like a normal junction? 😒

Unless there is an officer on the junction. Police officers are "above" most laws and you have to do what they tell you to do, I believe.

[visual tree]

In theory, if everyone follows the rules, there should be no traffic jam 😅

By the time police officers arrived, the traffic lights were fixed lol

[night girder]

Aaah typical 😄

[visual tree]

Found some images online, a nightmare in the intersection

I also couldn't cross a zebra because the tram blocked the way lol

[night girder]

This is the most scarred I've ever been. Meiser in Brussels.

[visual tree]

I still have nightmares from a 3-lane roundabout lol

[night girder]

That's how it looks during rushhoure. Look at the cars 😄

and then you have pubklic transit cuttin in the middle of the round about.

A lot of cars block the public transit ofc, because the whole thing is congested

I got there once by accident, got lost, never ever again.

[visual tree]

An old image of my nightmare (before reconstruction)

After reconstruction:

They added traffic lights (which make no sense for roundabouts if you ask me) and there are tunnels under the roundabout in the last picture

[night girder]

I have no issues with roundabouts. But meiser in Brussels isn't a real roundabout. It's a mess.

Just look at it all.

It's such a big mess.

[twin dew]

Roundabouts with multiple lanes crossing just don't work. Ever.

[visual tree]

Yeah, biggest problem I see is tram line cutting the whole roundabout

[night girder]

Exactly!

[night girder]

And it's two that kinda cut it off.

If you want to leave the roundabout, to the left, you see more tracks you need to worry off.

everywhere you see checkered pattern are danger zones for cars.

And then you have all the cross overs for people on foot.

[visual tree]

Found the best image of today's chaos in the city

[night girder]

So you have to dodge, trams, cars, bicycles, pedestrians, it's a nightmare

and most annoying thing is, during rush hour, there are cops, but they just stand there and watch. They can't do anything.

[night girder]

Yikes.

[visual tree]

This is why I never go to work with a car and prefer using public transport

I just park my car near the train station and take the train to the office

[night girder]

Been there done that 😄

How much does it add to your travel time? And how long is your travel time?

[visual tree]

or as traffic engineers like to call it: "park & ride"

[night girder]

I prefer kiss-n-ride

[visual tree]

I leave the house at 07:35 and arrive to the office at around 08:35

So, 1 hour

Train ride is around 24 minutes and will be reduced to 18 minutes when track reconstruction is almost done

[night girder]

For me it was; 2 hours in the car to brussels. 2 hours in the car back to home. Or car to trainstation and then train to brussels added another hour in total travel (back and forth).

[rapid ether]

Oh no, Ratswegkreisel in Frankfurt: "hold my beer"

a roundabout with 2-4 lanes in the circle, where 5.5 roads meet, two of them are autobahn exit and access, one is towards the industrial area. and there is a tram 3-way crossing in the middle and also pedestrian crossings.
Of course in rush hour mainly lorry drivers with an extra carriage drive into it blocking at least all the lanes from one direction and one of the tramlines, making the entire thing work "in reverse" -> about one vehicle gets through for an entire circle of the traffic lights which takes like 5+ minutes. not missing having to get through there to work

[visual tree]

I took me almost 2 hours travelling from home to college some time ago when I was a student and before college moved to a new location

My college was like far away and on the hills

[rapid ether]

my record was 2.5hours to get to work on one day, for 40km road distance (not even 20km birds flight)

[night girder]

all I find is graffiti when searching "ratswegkreisel frankfurt"

[visual tree]

Same

[rapid ether]

autobahn goes over it, so hard to take a pic, I guess

just a sec

[visual tree]

Sometimes I wish europe adopted the austrian traffic planning where small cities replaced almost all intersections with 1-lane roundabouts

Leibnitz is the perfect example and it's so easy navigating that city

[night girder]

Are you sure asablic? When I google:

[visual tree]

🤣

[rapid ether]

Yes, but at least in Germany those are becoming more common. The village where I'm from has about 6500 inhabitants, when I moved away in 2006 they had none, now it's at least 3

[night girder]

That's the first hit 🤣

[rapid ether]

I can't post a link to google maps :/

https ://maps.app.goo.gl/ZiF4puy8rsFJhyxZ6 -- maybe like this?

[night girder]

It does have traffic lights it seems.

[rapid ether]

yes, they are part of the problem 😄

they are very dense... like two cars between... and a lot of lorries come through, they instantly freeze the entire thing

[visual tree]

That intersection reminds me of the one in the city where I work: https ://maps.app.goo.gl/esX79GsjsBHFGjcp7

[night girder]

How do you know you are in germanny? When you see: audi, audi, BMW, mercedes, mercedes, mercedes, audi, BMW, BMW, ... 😂

Just using google streets to scout the round about and I noticed the same brands

[visual tree]

BMW is not a car, it's a diagnosis

[rapid ether]

BowelMovement on Wheels 😄

[night girder]

I am diagnosed with it.

[visual tree]

How do you know there is something wrong with your BMW? The blinkers are working!

[night girder]

You want classy? Mercedes. You want sporty? BMW. You want inbetween? Audi 😂

[night girder]

Blinkers are an option on BMW. It costs you 1K to add. That's why most people don't get them.

[visual tree]

Here, BMW drivers have a very bad reputation

And most of them cause problems from my experience

[night girder]

I think they do all over the world 😄

[rapid ether]

the neighbouring exit of that Ratswegkreisel was also "famous" -- it was a 2-3 lane roundabout with 2 autobahn exits, 2 autobahn access lanes and 5x 2-lane streets from and to Frankfurt/Offenbach with only some traffic lights near the exits but not on it -- it was basically on the border between the two cities.. it got compacted and replaced by 4 crossings with traffic lights... so roads are now like a hash-sign

yupp, but I've recently read complaints about Skoda as well Oo

[night girder]

I don't think you can connect car brands with driving behavior.

maybe there is a correlation, but I am not sure how big it is.

[rapid ether]

it's probably "complaints about $currentlyPopularCompanyCarBrand"

[night girder]

"sportive" drivers will most likely opt for sport brands and drive more reckless with them I guess?

and family drivers (people who drive responsible) will opt for family brands? But that's wild guessing from my part.

[visual tree]

I heard insurance companies will charge you very high fees if you own a BMW because they consider BMW drivers one of the worst, not sure if it's true though

I bet mercedes owners pay less fees

[night girder]

And that too, how many people own a brand can skewer our perspective.

[rapid ether]

in Germany that also depends on the specific model and region even
it's more about accident statistics, not percieved image.
so mercedes used to be what people got from their retirement money... so old-people-car image -> many accidents as well, on parking lots or against garage doors etc

[visual tree]

My friend recently bought a used BMW and his insurance is much higher than my parent's new car and my old car combined

Although I pay only basic insurance for my car and it's 15 years old

[rapid ether]

not sure how insurance works in your country... we have liabilty insurance which is mandatory and then also "Teilkasko" and "Vollkasko" which covers damage on your own car.... and then with each year of being accident free the yearly costs go down. But only per contract. I'm e.g. at 30-ish % at the moment. But would I get a second car, I'd have to start at 100% with that car....

and also depends on how much you drive of course

and where you live

[visual tree]

"The Croatian mandatory car insurance covers damages in Croatia and the Green Insurance Card System member states. However, it only covers the costs of traffic accidents to third parties – not the party at fault. You may purchase additional insurance, called „kasko“, to cover various events, including you and your vehicle. Kasko compensates for costs associated with theft, bad weather, and when you cause an accident. Other voluntary car insurance can vary by the insurance company."

[rapid ether]

cool, so about the same

For me it's still 1000€ a year (vollkasko and liability) because the last two years insurances basically doubled their rates industry-wide, I used to pay only 550-ish a year

[visual tree]

I don't pay for "kasko" anymore since my car is too old and if I had a major accident, my insurance will write it off as a total loss which means I will only receive a very small compensation

So, I only pay mandatory insurance

Paid €200 last year for mandatory insurance while kasko would cost me around €400 which is not worth it for a 15 year old imo

[twin dew]

Here that write off will result in payment that should get you equivalent (model, year, mileage, extras etc.) used car.

So depends if you can afford to get that otherwise or not.

[rapid ether]

the writing off thing is - at least here - only "is it worth repairing or not?" - you should still get what it would be worth undamaged... had such an accident once, I was surprised how much the car would have been worth still in the eyes of the specialist who priced the wreck.

[twin dew]

Do you pay more, for guarantee you will have a car, or just be ready to pay for replacement yourself.

More per month, probably more in total.

Vs. possible one time replacement cost.

[rapid ether]

I had the accident in the year I was about to cancel the kasko... still had it, the car would've been worth about 3500 on the used marked, but the specialist said 6500 and that's what I got

2005 fiat punto II , 1.3l diesel, 90,000km

[visual tree]

My car is probably worth around €5000 right now. If I had a major accident where repairs cost more than €1000, the insurance company will most likely write off the car as total loss and give you a very small compensation like €200

[twin dew]

Mileage can cause huge price differences in old cars.

[visual tree]

Which is less than the insurance you are paying for

That's why I am not so sure about paying for kasko

[twin dew]

Which is why cars aren't counted via the normal deprication ways in Finland, but the actual replacement value.

[visual tree]

I think the general rule here is to take "partial kasko" after 10 years and no kasko after 15 years

Partial kasko means you have a percentage contribution to the compensation

If the damage is €1000 and the partial kasko is 50%, you pay €500 and the insurance company €500

[rapid ether]

okay, that's weird, because kasko should cover the "current undamaged value" of the car, the repairs for mine would have been more expensive than the factory new purchase price... still they paid... even though it never got repaired.

[soft bloom]

Sometimes i feel like wrong choice of boolean var nmae leads to very stupid bugs of double negative

[visual tree]

Insurance companies here are fishy and they are waiting to rip you off

[rapid ether]

teillasko (partial) only covers certain damages

[visual tree]

Recently, there was a scandal where someone had access to the database of all car owners in croatia and sold that database to insurance companies for money

[rapid ether]

yeah, I call insurances "payement avoidance institutions"

[visual tree]

Although it is a public secret for years because the insurance companies would call you 1 month before insurance expires and beg you to take their insurance

They could only know when your insurance expires if they bought a database on the black market....

[rapid ether]

that's their biggest department, I guess, the one trying to prevent the payout

[night girder]

If we install a black box, we neef to pay less insurance. Eventually the box will be forced by EU.

[visual tree]

Oh, my biggest fear 😅 . I am afraid they will give you like 100 contracts with 1000 pages and then hide something important in small letters

[night girder]

Now its optional and it reduces price.

[visual tree]

People here are pissed off because new cars have all kind of safety sensors but we don't get a discount on insurance

Safety features mean there is a lower chance of having an accident but insurance companies don't care about that

[rapid ether]

they also make repairs more expensive

all the cameras and sensors in all exterior parts, more parts that might fail

[night girder]

So you pay double. You pay for the safety features (mandatory by EU) and still pay shitton for insurance.

[rapid ether]

don't get me started on those 😄

since this year a speed warner is mandatory. camera reeds the speed limit signs and warns the driver.
in my 2017 car it's optional. I switched it off because it's suuuuper unreliable. reads often truck stickers as the signs and very often doesn't get the "end of limit", and often the end of a construction on the highway doesn't even have that sign.

[visual tree]

Btw, do you turn off that start-stop system as soon as you start the car? I turn it off because someone told me that "feature" destroys your car engine but not sure if it's true tbh

correction: my parents car has it

[rapid ether]

no, I keep that on, it's not active when the engine is not warm enough or the battery too low... don't have data on how it is bad... I think it's rather a myth with modern cars

[night girder]

I have a button. I start car, press button and it's off.

[visual tree]

I mean, this

[night girder]

Yes

[visual tree]

Oh, nvm

[night girder]

It's called ISA btw.

Intelligent Speed Assistance

It can:

1. give a warning
2. increase resistant speed pedal
3. brake

It will scan traffic signs + GPS data to know how fast you can drive. Depending on which car you bought it will do either of 3 things.

[visual tree]

I hate lane assist on my parents Volkwagen T-Roc. It will sometimes activate on curved roads and think you are switching lanes without turning on an indicator and correct the steering wheel

[night girder]

I don't mind it giving a signal.

[visual tree]

Gives me an anxiety attack because it feels like a hacker took control of your vehicle lol

And don't try using adaptive cruise control during rain or snow. Tried it once and it detected a phantom vehicle

[night girder]

ISA as how they (EU) invission it will be a disaster.

[visual tree]

Wanted to test it on an empty road how "intelligent" it is. Guess it's no more intelligent than me 🤣

[night girder]

How fucking stupid can you be, to make cars break on visual data + GPS?

1. It's easy to replace signs with fake ones next to a road.
2. It's easy to hack anything lately and modify data.

Next type of cybercrime will be hackers that causes traffic accidents on purpose.

[visual tree]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr51RvvcBL0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MfyIsPWhTk&t=10s

[rapid ether]

I do, if it's pinging every 10 seconds because it thinks I'm still in a construction zone with limit of 80 but I could drive however fast I want... especially when you can't switch that off -.-

[night girder]

You can switch it off if you really really want

You car may become road illegal. And not covered by insurance, but you can turn it off.

[visual tree]

I have no problems with some kind of a warning if you go over the speed limit but forcing the car to lower your speed is a pandora's box

[dire igloo]

Reminds me of the two autonomous cars standing before each other and blocking each other's paths

[night girder]

EU:

First phase: warning signal, so people get used to it.
Second phase: brakes apply.

[night girder]

I love the fact the 3rd car didn't stop 😂

So either it's smart and ignored it. OR it broke the law in that situation.

[dire igloo]

https://youtu.be/p6CfR3Wpz7Y

[visual tree]

I hate how some companies got EU funds for developing a level 5 autonomous vehicle even though such vehicles are not possible in the next 10 years if you ask me...

[night girder]

EU is dumb when it comes to anything car related.

I don't see autonomous happening in my lifetime as mainstream transportation.

[visual tree]

Level 5 means the car can drive itself in virtually any road on the planet without assistance which is extremely hard to develop atm

Even humans can't understand some stupid roads lol

[night girder]

rofl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvs0K1LG1ac

[visual tree]

Oh, saw that on the news

We are apparently getting self-driving taxis here in 2026, hope it won't turn into a nightmare considering drivers here are idiots

And the roads are so confusing thousand Einsteins couldn't figure them out

Here is a video btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dinYBGoQ0HA

[night girder]

Driving anno 2024: dodge other humans.
Driving in the future: dodge humans and bots 😂

Oh and legally this also will become very fun to unfold.

Who is responsible for traffic accidents with self driving cars? The owner of the car? The brand of the car?

What happens when they kill someone? Does the self driving car get to jail?

For the Netherlands:

Driver is responsible IF driving.
Car manufacturer is responsible IF a system has failed.

[visual tree]

Here, we are going to change the law because of self-driving cars and the current proposition is that the car owner is always at fault if a self-driving car causes an accident

[night girder]

What the fuck?

[visual tree]

Yeah, I know 😅

[night girder]

And what if I get killed by a self driving car accident?

Then the other person, who has done nothing wrong, is responsible for my death?

And the manufacturer gets away scotch free?

[glossy glacier]

NJB sums it pretty good imo
youtu.be/040ejWnFkj0

[visual tree]

It's a law proposition so hopefully it won't be adopted if lawmakers listen to the expert's opinion

[night girder]

Make companies responsible.

So they don't cheap out and take shortcuts on QA.

[visual tree]

Although our lawmakers are well-known for ignoring experts opinions....

[night girder]

I read 1 argument that I really liked that was pro for self driving cars.

"People who can't drive, because of physical limitations (handicap), can still utilize self driving cars." And this, I really love.

[night girder]

Yikes, one of the comments:

Programmer here, I was working on one of the (many many) ECUs that was supposed to be sitting in the UBER Volvo car, handling a safety critical feature.
Not sure if it made it to the car in the end, because it was crazy how the project was driven.

When you say that they care about profits and not safety, you are 100% correct.
There were no tests on the code at all while the ECU was already supposed to be delivered into testing vehicles and we (not me, because I got out of it) had to work a lot of overtime trying to even have passing tests in place.
The lead constantly requested, and were granted "deviations" for missing tests and critical features being lacking and told us to not report bugs as "bugs" but as "work items" because they could be held liable if we called them "bugs".
The lead was even yelling at team members because of how badly it was going, despite the problem being the lead having an unrealistic schedule and accepting features that were never going to make it in the time they were requesting as well as the lead putting the priority on new features rather than securing tests.

I will state that it was not Volvo or UBER, but a third party they had contracted, but Volvo was the one granting the deviations.

It's really really bad and I'm glad to have made it out from that trashheap.

[glossy glacier]

hope the eu puts some regulations in place asap before they cross the ocean

[night girder]

The last country I know of, was the UK a few months ago. They have a law ready for 2026.

And they gave the reason that I just gave, they want cars to be accesible for everyone. So people who can't drive now, could use a self driving car.

[willow pike]

we're pretty much copying eu law on most things

[night girder]

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2024/10/enacted

[visual tree]

I wouldn't be surprised if Elon Musk drops all regulations to give corporations more power and then lie to people how he is raising goverment efficiency and removing bureaucracy

I've seen this in the past many times

[night girder]

An individual is the “user-in-charge” of a vehicle if—

(a)the vehicle is an authorised automated vehicle with an authorised user-in-charge feature,
(b)that feature is engaged, and
(c)the individual is in, and in position to exercise control of, the vehicle, but is not controlling it.

An individual does not commit an offence arising from the way in which a vehicle is driven if subsection (2) or (3) applies (subject to section 48).

(2)This subsection applies if the individual is the user-in-charge of the vehicle at the time of the act that would constitute the offence.

(3)This subsection applies if the act that would constitute the offence—

(a)results from something done by the vehicle while the individual was its user-in-charge, and
(b)does not also result from the individual’s conduct after ceasing to be the user-in-charge falling below the standard that could reasonably be expected of a careful and competent driver in the circumstances.

So it seems for the UK, you are not liable if the car is in self drive or "user-in-charge".

this one is a bit vague. "standard that could reasonably be expected of a careful and competent driver" ....

[visual tree]

Brb in 30 minutes

[pure karma]

bro im about to start singing all i want for christmas is ram if this keeps going 😂

im running into ram shortages on literally everything

[pure karma]

no wonder my ram ussage is so high im using like 18GB of Vram so 6GB of that is ram taking over lmao

[glossy glacier]

Dafuq are you even doing that takes so much RAM?

[pure karma]

Gaming

[glossy glacier]

Modded Minecraft?

[pure karma]

i haven't played Minecraft in like a year so no... but i am running two game instances at once

[glossy glacier]

Huh. Have fun then

[night girder]

I had no internet for an hour and this is what I come back too. Just perfect.

[pure karma]

if i do end up comiting to getting more ram... i know 4 sticks of ram is worst but i also feel like cheaping out because ram is still expensive as heck and theres no point in keeping a kit around that has no purpose but would spending over 100$ more just to stay with 2 sticks really be worth it?

[stray badger]

yes

if ur on DDR5, 4 sticks is either not stable, or will drop your speed by a lot

[pure karma]

well 2 sticks is allready not stable at full speed so its not like i care much anymore

[night girder]

Why is DDR5 bad with 4 sticks?

[pure karma]

but yea il see it will probably depend if there are any good deals going around

[stray badger]

memory controllers cant take it

[night girder]

that sux

what for high end mobo?

[pure karma]

probably the same reasson as every type of ram exceeding the lanes max data transfer rate or whatever

[stray badger]

those are on CPUs

its worse on ryzen than intel

[night girder]

wait cpu's memory controller can't handle 4x DDR5 sticks?

[stray badger]

intel still drops perf, ryzen is not very stable

[pure karma]

is it significant or like just the speed reduction

[night girder]

didn't know that, always though 4x DDR5 was viable.

now I have two spare slots for nothing 😂

[pure karma]

because if its just the speed reduction i only run 4800MHZ anyway because 6400 still isent stable

[stray badger]

6000 should be stable on ryzen. 6400 is known to be the upper limit and may not be stable

and idk what you mean by "still", it will never change

i think 4 sticks locks you to 4800 or maybe 5000 mhz

[pure karma]

golden helped me tune it a bit but it wasent enough to matter much

[night girder]

and is there a valid reason why the memory controllers can't be upgraded?

[pure karma]

and im not on ryzen i feel like thats probably clear by now lol

[night girder]

is it a technological limit?

[stray badger]

its part of the CPU IO die

[pure karma]

i have been the only odd one out for the entirery of the time i have been here

[stray badger]

idk ask AMD

[night girder]

Will do that next time I meet them on the streets.

[pure karma]

im guessing it probably is seeing how server cpu's can handle it altho that uses ECC and idk what the diffrence is and neither do i care right now

[stray badger]

they have different IO dies

[willow pike]

the IO die (which has the memory controller on it) is connected to the CCD(s) by infinity fabric on package (IFOP)

key word there being package

it would be unbearably slow if it were connected to the CCDs by any kind of upgradeable socket

[night girder]

No, I meant why producers don't make better memory controllers that can handle 4x DDR5

[willow pike]

they do, but two sticks are always going to have a higher maximum performance than four

if you make a better memory controller that can handle higher frequencies and get better signal to noise, you improve all memory configurations, and using four sticks places twice the load on each memory channel compared to two

[night girder]

Ah, that makes sense

[willow pike]

extreme overclocking boards will only have two slots on them to make the signal even clearer (even leaving RAM sockets empty can interfere with the signal a little)

[pure karma]

yea but then it turns into a daisy chain of just faster ram being made to use the newly gained capacity resulting in the same problem each time but at a higher speed level

[willow pike]

also if you wanna go bald, go overclock your ram and tighten the timings

hair will be torn out

[pure karma]

maybe il find myself a system that isent over 2 grand before doing anything destructive at a bios level

[willow pike]

it wouldn't be destructive it'll just be frustrating as fuck

oh and then there's some boards having different memory topology

this is also why you're always told to install ram in slots A2 and B2

otherwise you have the signal going out to empty sockets and bouncing back

or acting as an antenna

this shit is complicated

might all go away if CAMM catches on

[sand whale]

i should get off my phone

[glossy glacier]

If i remember the recenty buildzoid video corrextly AMD can should be able to handle 8000 easily, 8800 if you are very lucky. But you drop to a 2:1 ratio of you go above 6000. 6400 in 1:1 is only stable if you are very lucky. Most MBs cap aout in the 7000 range though.
As long as you stay with 1 DPC. If you have 2 DPC it drops to <5000.

Intel's IMC is actually worse than AMDs, the actual specs are just very well hidden

[twin dew]

And Intel on DDR5 always runs on 1:2 mode, and has 1:4 mode too.
And AMD AM5 by default runs in 1:1 mode, until 6000MT/s, and above that runs in 1:2 mode by default.

1:1 at 6000MT/s should be ok for almost all AMD CPUs, 6200MT/s maybe 90%, 6400MT/s maybe 50%.
And then in that 1:2 mode, you need at least 7600MT/s to be better off than 1:1 6000MT/s.

On AMD

But like Xeet said, Intel 13th and 14th gen have official max speed with 1x1R DDR5 of 4400MT/s, when on any MB with 4 slots.
The ARK number is only for those CPUs on MB with 2 memory slots.

[twin dew]

Intel doing Sale and lease-back on some of its offices...
Just to boost very short term accounting numbers...

Ok, might be just sale and maybe partial leaseback.

[sand saddle]

Yeah I don't think I can access the 5G modem through my remote desktop

[sand saddle]

Fuck no

[soft bloom]

what's the cable for DC 24V 1..2A look like?

i just realised that common 5.5x2.1mm ones are up to 12V

[twin dew]

Depends on manufacturer.
Some are specced to 24V DC

Even up to 36V

[grim panther]

Most time black

[pure karma]

i know but that info isent public for the motherboard i have

[twin dew]

Like shown, T-Topology hasn't been used by anyone since very early DDR4.

As max speed on DDR4 was:
2-slots >
Daisy Chain with 2 DIMMs >
T-topology with 2 DIMMs >
T-topology with 4 DIMMs >
Daisy Chain with 4 DIMMs >
With 100-200MT/s RAM speed differences between the steps.

With higher differences between the top positions, and smaller as you get to lower max speeds.

And on DDR5 the difference is so large that that Intel official speed is 5600MT/s for 2-slot, and 4400MT/s for 4-slot Daisy Chain with 2 DIMMs.

For 14th gen.

[night girder]

Is using MHz still relevant? Since that is just the speed of the transistors switching per scond.

[twin dew]

The actual MHz from DRAM is half the MT/s, which is often named as MHz incorrecly.

[night girder]

And MT/s is the actual transfer rate of RAM.

[twin dew]

Been like that since DDR1.

Basically no-one uses the actual MHz for DRAM, ever.

And just use it when talking about MT/s in actuality.

[night girder]

RAM speed used to be measured and expressed in megahertz (MHz). However, this measurement is now being reconsidered and could be expressed in megatransfers per second (MT/s).

This statement got me thinking about it.

[twin dew]

Yeah, and point is, 6000MT/s DDR5 is just 3000MHz.
But no-one talks about it as 3000MHz, but incorrectly as 6000MHz.

And if you would talk about 4000MHz DDR5, (8000MT/s), everyone would think you have very shitty RAM.

[rapid ether]

Marketing should never get near tech specs

I still remember the "Pentium Rating" of the AMD processors, like Athlon, Athlon64, Duron etc.

[twin dew]

Basically SDR DIMMs were last common RAM type where MHz and MT/s were the same.
Hasn't been true since DDR1, which was released in 1998.

Note that those "DDR#-###(#)" ratings never had MHz in them.

And those PC####(#) ratings were in actual transfer speed.

[pure karma]

because bigger number better

[willow pike]

the loss of meaning of Hz really hurts

[rapid ether]

before DDR there was also EDO --- wondering what that was...

[twin dew]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_random-access_memory#Extended_data_out_DRAM

[rapid ether]

ah that was before SD even...

[twin dew]

Seems everything is EDO since then.
But that was first time you could make RAM start to open next address while still accessing the old one.

In a way, but yea, SDR went further.

SDRAM I mean.

Synchronous Dynamic RAM vs Single Data Rate

[rapid ether]

not Standard Dynamic Range vs. HDR? 😄 😄

[twin dew]

But DIP to Short-SIMM to Long-SIMM, to DIMM in form factors.
And EDO was in Long-SIMMs only AFAIK.

No, seems it was in the short ones too.

No, wasn't, only 72-pin ones.

[rapid ether]

my first PC had still the 32 pin ram slots 4 of them and two of the 70-something-ish, the ones that were diagonally

[pure karma]

are you sure its not the Soft Dynamic Range vs. the Hard Dynamic Range

[twin dew]

Short (30-pin) and long (72-pin) SIMMs

Where one long one was equivalent to two short ones.

In bandwidth.

[rapid ether]

yeah, probably... it was a 80486 80MHz CPU

[twin dew]

Sorry, even more.
short is 8-bit, long is 32bit

So on 32 bit RAM bus, you could use four short ones, or one long one.

And 486 needed 32 bits worth of RAM width.

SIMM = Single Inline Memory Module, contacts at same position on different sides of the memory module are connected.
DIMM = Dual Inline Memory Module, contacts at same position on different sides of the memory module aren't connected, to allow double the number of signals in same size.

[willow pike]

https://videocardz.com/newz/prototype-geforce-rtx-4090-ti-gpu-has-been-found-in-computer-junk-bin-massive-quad-slot-design-and-rotated-pcie

[night girder]

That is major confusing

[twin dew]

Because almost everyone has been using MHz wrong since that 1998 when talking about RAM.

[night girder]

So why not stop using it wrong?

And use MT/s

[twin dew]

Because people are stupid?
But even Windows was doing it wrong, but latest Win11 finally is using MT/s.

"Why does it matter?"

"Everyone knows what I mean!"

[night girder]

Because it's wrong? And confusing.

[twin dew]

You don't need to try to convert me 🥹

[night girder]

So, if I have 6000Mhz stick, it has 3000MT/s ? More or less?

[twin dew]

No, if 6000MHz stick existed, it would be 12000MT/s.
You have 6000MT/s stick, so 3000MHz.

[night girder]

Oh, it's 2x.

[twin dew]

DDR: Dual Data Rate, two bits per Hz per data pin.

MegaTransfers per Second is double the MHz in that case.

[night girder]

Btw, I was thinking about yesterday explenation about why 2x DDR5 is faster than 4x DDR5 and the cause was the memory controller on IO die on CPU. And people said:

If you upscale memory controller, it will be linear, so it means that 2x DDR5 also get's faster and will always be faster than 4x DDR5.

But that got me thinking, isn't one stick not the fastest then?

[twin dew]

Because currently the memory controllers on consumer side are 128bits wide.
One DIMM is 64 bits wide.

[night girder]

Yes, but I said, why do manufacturers not upgrade the memory controller.

And people said to me: 2x DDR5 will always be faster.

[twin dew]

More pins, more traces, more cost, more die area, larger sockets.

[night girder]

Because if you make better memory controller for 4x DDR5, this will also benefit 2x DDR5

[twin dew]

Not cost effective for consumer.
But reason why on Threadripper and server platforms etc. have shitton of channels now.

And why that one generation of Intel HEDP had 3 channels.

[night girder]

So it is possible to get 4x DDR5 speeds closer to 2x DDR5? But it's just not cost efficient for consumer.

[twin dew]

You need to differentiate between amount of sticks, and amount of channels.

4 sticks on 2 channels is just more memory.
Not more speed.

[night girder]

I was just confused why 4x DDR5 doesn't perform aswell as 2x DDR5. I though we would be able to handle it.

[twin dew]

And more sticks on same channel lead to lower max frequency on that channel.

[night girder]

People said 4x DDR5 can run but at lower speeds.

[twin dew]

More load, more reflections, more interference.

Leading to lower max frequency.-

Been same for ages, but DDR5 takes it to insane level on how much frequency you lose for 2DPC over 1DPC (DIMM per Channel)

[night girder]

Ok, I love my current build.

But in hindsight, with this new knowledge. I might have opted for 2 slot mobo.

Because now i have to slots for nothing rofl.

[twin dew]

On Intel 14th gen, official DDR5 support:
1DPC board, 1DPC RAM, 1R RAM: 5600MT/s.
1DPC board, 1DPC RAM, 2R RAM: 5600MT/s.
2DPC board, 1DPC RAM, 1R RAM: 4400MT/s.
2DPC board, 1DPC RAM, 2R RAM: 4400MT/s.
2DPC board, 2DPC RAM, 1R RAM: 4000MT/s.
2DPC board, 2DPC RAM, 2R RAM: 3600MT/s.

AMD 9000:
1DPC, 1R: 5600
1DPC, 2R: 5600
2DPC, 1R: 3600
2DPC, 2R: 3600

AMD 5000:
1DPC, 1R: 3200
1DPC, 2R: 3200
2DPC, 1R: 2933
2DPC, 2R: 2667

[sand saddle]

https://discord.com/channels/@me/1047955676879671326/1121860430567063703 🤫

[twin dew]

So to get better speed on DDR5, you would need CPU and MB with more than 128 bits wide memory controller.
So 192 bits wide for 3 channels, when you would then need 3 DIMMs for full speed, 256 bits for 4 channels, with 4 DIMMs etc.

Where current servers are at 12 channels per socket.

[night girder]

I don't blame you at all GS 😄

[sand saddle]

The B650M HDV has one of the best ram OC scores despite the low price

[night girder]

But now I can follow more why two slots was suggested.

And I remember it, but I just though 4x DDR5 was viable upgrade path

which seems it's not.

[twin dew]

Not really, if you don't need more RAM than you can get as 2 sticks.

That it isn't viable upgrade path, because of the downsides.

Even on DDR4, that was mostly stupid thing to do.
So many unstable computers from people trying to do that with XMP on...

But if the stuff you do needs more than 96GB of RAM, going to 4 DIMMs with lower speed, or to much more expensive platform, are the only options.

Because that drop in RAM speed is lesser slowdown than running out of RAM.

[sand saddle]

Hehe

And well to get those speeds you need manual tuning

For most users aka anyone who doesn't OC their ram, the amount of slots doesn't actually matter tho

[night girder]

😅 Guess I forgot

GS covering his ass like crazy 😂

[sand saddle]

And I mean manual OC, not some ez 6000 xmp

[sand saddle]

I just love being right, need the ego boost lmao

Don't mind me

[night girder]

I never said you were wsrong did I?

[sand saddle]

I don't believe so

[night girder]

"it would be handy that I have rgb headers I guess..."

There is so much stuff to consider when building PC's. I had to make choices.

[sand saddle]

yup

[night girder]

But it's a lesson learned for me.

[sand saddle]

I'm building another PC this weekend for my friend's brother

[night girder]

Next PC will be 2x slots 😉

[sand saddle]

Not easy to find

Unless ITX

[twin dew]

Mainly that 4 slots matters for when the computer goes to some secondary use in due time, and you get free RAM.
When the RAM speed doesn't really matter anymore, and using crap RAM to get to high enough amount to still be usable is good thing.

[sand saddle]

Yeah

[night girder]

True, but I have a 20 year old PC for that. And I still even have used it for anything since... well 20 years ago.

But the fact remains, 2x slots is actually better 😄

[twin dew]

Yup, been for long time, just much more extreme with DDR5 than before.

[night girder]

But it was a fact, 2 slot boards were more expensive than 4 slot 😦

Which is weird?

[twin dew]

Because 2 slot boards are either the crappiest lowest cost ones possible, or high-end OC boards with price to match.

Because on anything else, it is seen as a minus.

And reason to avoid.

[night girder]

I am wrong.

I am just thinking about what GS said.

[twin dew]

Yup, as that B650M-HDV is the crappiest B650 board ASRock makes.
And below it there are only A620 boards.

[sand saddle]

Yet it's a very good board

[twin dew]

Good enough for most use.

And I'm recommending a A620 board for office computer for example.

[night girder]

Yeah, I think I picked Pro RS pure for the RGB header. I was sold on the Lian Li case they suggested to me.

Ah well, we will see how long this build lasts 😄

Besides the CPU woes (which are resolved for the moment) it's a good PC.

[sand saddle]

wccftech.com/asrock-110-us-b650-motherboard-sets-overclocking-world-record-amd-ryzen-9-7950x-cpu/

valid.x86.fr/83w4rt

Funny shit all I'm saying

[twin dew]

RAM frequency usually isn't the be-all, end-all MB quality except for RAM benchmarking.

Good basic board.

[sand saddle]

Indeed but there's really no bad things about it. It might simply be missing a few features but at that price range it's hard/impossible to find them on other boards as well.

A620 Pro RS is fairly solid as well as a budget board

[stray badger]

i almost went with the pro rs, but then the livemixer was super cheap for no reason so i got that instead

[sand saddle]

Yeah, asrock rocks for AM5

[night girder]

There is one thing II noticed on my Pro RS board, something came off. But it's hard to describe what it is. It's plastic thingy.

Not my picture, but do you see that socket? The black plastic around it, just came with it when I was disconnecting a cable.

[twin dew]

Very common issue with that USB3 front panel header connector shroud.

Can be just left off, or carefully inserted back onto those pins.

[night girder]

Yeah, I wasn't able to get it back on and was afraid of bending the pins.

So I just carefully put the cable back onto the pins without the black plastic around it.

[twin dew]

Basically the locking to the cable is better than the purely friction fit to those pins.

[night girder]

Why is it so common it let's lose?

bad glue? too small?

[twin dew]

No glue at all.

Badly designed standardized connector.

Like I said, that shroud is just plastic around the pins, nothing to keep it on except the friction against the pins.

And the hooks that lock the connector to it are stronger than that friction in lot of the actual produced units.

So smooth plastic on smooth metal.

[night girder]

I understand.

Still feels cheap when it happens.

[twin dew]

Because it is from cheaping out.

Just nothing in that base spec that would help against it either, and connector that doesn't care about it can be made cheaper than one that would try to fix that issue.

[night girder]

What is all this white plating stuff?

[willow pike]

hate the usb3 header

purely cosmetic

[night girder]

542.95 euro Asrock motherboard.

Ugly 🤮

But I was wondering if those also have the issue.

[twin dew]

Still same basic connector, so would depend on the exact part being used.
But very high probability that no change from cheapest ASRock board.

[willow pike]

if they can save a cent, they'll save a cent

[night girder]

Still looking at that marble finish motherboard.

It's based on marble kitchen

You can remove it. But still. WTF.

The same for this:

Limited edition... white? Which will eventually turn yellow/brown because of lightning and your hands.

[stray badger]

i actually quite like the marble

[night girder]

Yeah, there must be people who like it.

[stray badger]

thats they extremely high end

[stray badger]

modern white is a little bit better, so that will take quite some time

[night girder]

The sun will effect white plastic.

[stray badger]

yeah i know

it takes awhile tho

[night girder]

Still, the marble guards is risky choice for such an expensive mobo imo.

[stray badger]

do you not put it in a case?

[night girder]

do you not look to your case?

[stray badger]

tinted glass

[night girder]

I look at my case almost daily.

[stray badger]

it also faces away from my window

[night girder]

Thinking on what to improve, just looking at the motherboard and GPU.

Thinking I need to vacuum my case for dust build up 😄

But, yes, I look inside my case a lot.

[stray badger]

btw this is my mobo:

[night girder]

I like that. Graffiti style.

But ... you have tinted glass and turned PC to window so not sure if you could save some money on a less fancy looking mobo.

[stray badger]

i got it because it was cheap

it was less than the riptide lol

[night girder]

Niiiice

B650 Livemixer

[stray badger]

its covered by my massive dual tower cooler and long ass GPU tho

and my PC is on my left (glass faces away from me)

[night girder]

14 USB ports 😂

[pure karma]

its nerver enough

[night girder]

Wait... you even get special BIOS?

[pure karma]

i wish there were more one off motherboards like this available

[night girder]

Omg.

Unique styling as a con, which is so subjective.

[twin dew]

Might be under Pros too.

[stray badger]

another nice bonus

[night girder]

Exactly baldur.

[twin dew]

When you expand it.

[night girder]

Oh you right.

Though you meant "it could be either side", but they placed it both sides.

Just leave it away ffs. People can see it for themselves.

[stray badger]

it just has a different wallpaper

[night girder]

Yeah but still ... I am jelly.

[stray badger]

make sure you use slots 1 and 3, i accidentally put my ram in 2 and 4 and it wouldnt boot lol

when i got it, it was only $140 USD, which was pretty cheap for AM5 at the time

[night girder]

That should be in the manual what slots to use 😄

[stray badger]

it was

i didnt read it until it wouldnt boot

[pure karma]

it is but why would you read a manual that dosent exist

[night girder]

I read "everything" because I am insecure when building PC's.

[pure karma]

i had to print mine out

[night girder]

and not much experience in general with building systems.

a little bit more now 😄

[twin dew]

Where do you even get that "1 and 3"?
When it is A2 and B2?

For B650 LiveMixer

[stray badger]

idk i just refer to slots in sequencial order

[twin dew]

You counting from right to left?

[stray badger]

left to right

1,2,3,4 = A1,A2,B1,B2

[twin dew]

Then should have been second and fourth slot, when going away from the CPU.

So either broken MB, or bad insert first time.

[stray badger]

it was bad insert, MB works fine

[twin dew]

With Daisy Chain, it is always the farthest slot for each channel.

[stray badger]

u right

[night girder]

315 boot time for 4x 32GB.

[twin dew]

Better now.
2x32GB is only 60 seconds now.

With AGESA and BIOS updates.

[night girder]

Wdym?

[stray badger]

yeah i just looked in my PC and it is in fact A2,B2

[night girder]

So manual has outdated information?

[twin dew]

150 sec in that manual.
But AMD has gotten it better over time.

[twin dew]

Yes.

[night girder]

And that time, what is happening again? I am going to say it wrong, but is that the motherboard learning the speeds of the memory stick?

[glossy glacier]

My very late two cents to the RAM speed debate:
The first D in DDR stands for Double because data can be send at the rising and falling edge of the clock signal. Thus the Data rate is double the clock rate.
Until late DDR4 the memory controller ran in lockstep with the dimm clocks. But with increasing dimm clocks they are now in a 2-to-1 ratio if the dimm clocks exceed a certain value.
No, if the ram is fast enough it's not a performance loss.
Timings are just the amount of dimm clocks cycles to wait. If the memory controller is now only half as fast it'll just wait half the clock cycles

[twin dew]

But that was what it was in the first AM5 UEFI versions.

[night girder]

Or some sort of calibration between motherboard and memory sticks?

[twin dew]

Memory training, calibrating the IMC to RAM and MB.
And happens on each boot, if specific option isn't on.

[night girder]

Right, memory training!

[twin dew]

Just that with DDR5, that is much slower than on anything before.

[stray badger]

it stores the data tho, so if you make sure to turn on the setting it wont train again unless u clear cmos

[twin dew]

It does, just not on every boot.

[stray badger]

huh, i haven't run into it since first boot

[glossy glacier]

On every cold boot iirc

[twin dew]

There are limits in calendar time between trainings, and if the temperatures change too much etc.

[stray badger]

i see

[twin dew]

And that full power removal too.

[night girder]

If you replace a CPU without clearing CMOS, does it automatically train again?

IMC is on CPU, so if memory training calibrate IMC -> RAM -> MOBO, and you replace CPU, it should be retrained?

[twin dew]

Will be.

Also gets retrained on up to every boot even if that training saving is on, if the old training isn't stable on quick test or something,.

It doesn't just trust that the old training works.

[night girder]

But, the manual speaks of 90 seconds atleast. (2 x 16GB).

My system never takes that long to boot up, let alone 10-20 seconds.

[twin dew]

Because it used to take that long originally.
And was weird.
With 2x16GB it takes up to 30 seconds today with latest AGESA.

[night girder]

the retraining on boot must be quicker and more lightweight then

[twin dew]

Also remember, in most cases you are never shutting the computer actually down.

Even when you use Windows Shut Down

[night girder]

well yeah else stuff no works.

[mental oriole]

Why does it look like someone dropped paint on it?

[night girder]

That's why turning off the power switch back at the PC gives different behavior than shutting your PC down for a few hours.

[twin dew]

Because that was the goal in artists and marketers heads?

[night girder]

Also why you lose your date and time when you disconnect PC for long time from power grid.

[mental oriole]

Waste if I'm never gonna see it.

[night girder]

Do you like the other motherboard more I posted?

[twin dew]

Nah, only if the CMOS battery runs out.
Just that it isn't used anymore if the standby power is on.

[night girder]

What did I say?

[mental oriole]

Marble one?

[night girder]

Disconnect your PC from power grid for 1 year. See if it still has date and time.

[stray badger]

damn blender torture test on my CPU getting only like 65c temps

[night girder]

#off-topic-tech message

[twin dew]

Should be good for about 3-5 years of disconnected time since the battery was inserted.

[night girder]

See, still has time limit.

[twin dew]

And reason why it is replaceable?

[mental oriole]

Same, why... I'm never gonna see it.

[night girder]

Get out of here all.

[twin dew]

Getting harder and harder to get case without window.

I really don't like that.

[night girder]

Feels like I am the least knowledgeable person in here, who actually enjoys looking at the inside of a PC 😂

[stray badger]

i do too, but my desk layout says no

[mental oriole]

I don't know why I need a window on it, when it sits under my desk.

[night girder]

If you don't like glass panels.

Buy curtains. Problem fixed.

[mental oriole]

🤣

[night girder]

Reason why I still like RGB, so I can see inside my case.

[pure karma]

i do too but having a desk large enough to be able to do so is a pain

[stray badger]

rgb is a pain tho

[pure karma]

ehh its not that bad

[stray badger]

software, connecting cables, bleh

[mental oriole]

My 2meter desk has other important stuff on it, like plushies.

[stray badger]

if i put my PC under my desk, i will 100% accidentally kick it

[night girder]

with that I agree, what i did was; skip software.

I just use BIOS, set it to one thing. And forget.

[mental oriole]

Nice foot stand

[pure karma]

thats why i put my alienware there because its the only crapbox i have that can handle being kicked 40 times a day

[stray badger]

also i have the fractal north, i wanna see that

[night girder]

interesting

[rapid ether]

mine just arrived today, waiting for the other hardware to arrive 😄

[night girder]

fractal case for raspberry pi:

[stray badger]

I want that too lol

[night girder]

you cannot buy it, but you can 3D print it.

fractal made it for a stand for some event. It caught eyes 😄

[stray badger]

My pi needs to actually be setup again first

[rapid ether]

I got mine with the tinted window... I like it when it just glows with a bit of colour from inside...

[night girder]

www.fractal-design.com/north-pi-3d-files/

[stray badger]

Same, except i turned all the rgb off so i use a flashlight to see inside lol

[rapid ether]

and it's on a rolling cart with drawers next to the desk because it's a standing desk... but floor is no option because the VR cable(s) go over a pulley system on the ceiling.... that would reduce the range by a meter

VR will be dead for me until I get new HMD, though -- microsoft just bricked mine by removing WMR

[night girder]

You enjoy VR? Or testing it out?

[rapid ether]

I actually do enjoy it, there's weeks without it, but hl alyx was awesome and walkabout minigolf is also really nice to just relax a bit... playing it with my wife sometimes... and my dad is addicted to it... whenever they visit he wants to play it 😄

I have an HP reverb G2, -- nice resolution you don't really notice pixels and especially no screen door effect, less ghosting than the index, but the inside out tracking is pretty flawed and the level of tweaking you need to make it work reliably with steamvr games and valve knuckle controllers takes almost all the fun. will save up a bit to get myself some other headset with lighthouse tracking support

[pure karma]

vr is mid honestly

[willow pike]

my valve index is great for the 5 games i enjoy

[pure karma]

its kinda in a awkward spot of it sucks and no one wants to improve it

[willow pike]

i love it but can't tell someone to spend £1000 on it