off-topic-tech

[safe trench]

https://tenor.com/view/do-a-flip-meme-do-a-flip-teardown-game-gif-25066192

only game i play that requires a card good is teardown

[night girder]

I always gamed 1080 on it. And she already tells me fornite is lagging. But I haven't looked at it yet.

She thinks a better monitor will fix the lag 😂

but at the moment she is gaming on big as TV screen, so it's horrible.

[pure karma]

im sure il get an answer but uhh what are the squished/mini/half sized ethernet ports called

so i can see if i can get an adapter

[dire igloo]

Ah yes, and a super outdated piece of pixelated tech will fix that.

What's her current monitor then?

[night girder]

Bro, she is 15 🤣

[dire igloo]

"big as[s] tv screen" is not a monitor

[night girder]

She has the PC for a year.

[safe trench]

🤣

[night girder]

Tell that to my sister, she is cheap skate.

[safe trench]

even a 10 year old would know better

[dire igloo]

And "lag" is not clear

[night girder]

and I have to solve the problems. And pay for it.

[safe trench]

oh hell nawh

[night girder]

I know, but I didn't have time to look at it, she told me when I was going home.

[safe trench]

she should have to pay at that point

[dire igloo]

That's 20% of her life that this monitor has been out for - MINIMUM

[night girder]

my sis? Nah, she had an old TV in her basement and that's now my niece her monitor, it's really bad. I've seen it.

[dire igloo]

What's the CPU? What settings?

[night girder]

i7 7700K

[safe trench]

specs?

[night girder]

4 cores - 4.20 GHz

[safe trench]

im saying total build

[night girder]

Intel i7 700K - Asus Strix Z270E - Asis Geforce GTX 1080 Strix- CoolerMaster PSU 750Watt - Samsung 850 EVO 250GB

I also added a extra m2 of 1TB to it.

[safe trench]

i mean listen

it a lil old

but they dont make them how they used to! - some old guy on the streets

[night girder]

I think it's a perfect first PC 🙂

Mhhh, not much choice for these filters.

[safe trench]

whats with monitor names tho

[night girder]

Don't ask me, it hurts my head 😄

[safe trench]

like whats the diference between

Asus 1139ERC91G

and

[night girder]

If the screen has a curve, some add a C to it etc.

[safe trench]

Asus 1139URC91GP

[night girder]

27 mostly refers to 27"

[safe trench]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-gif-338783462287106063

acording to what you said

you are smarter than 90% of pioneers

[night girder]

Aah, fixed it. I shouldn't have filtered min 144hz and max 144hz too 😂

[dire igloo]

Can just as easily be CPU or RAM bottleneck on the lags

[dire igloo]

Because you're artificially limiting to 144hz which is stupid

[night girder]

No, I think it's the settings.

[dire igloo]

Go 144Hz+ and sort by price ascending

[night girder]

She doesn't know how the graphic settings work.

I need to explain it to her.

[night girder]

I did 😉 I noticed.

[dire igloo]

Also, 27" 1080p is shit

Tell her to sit closer

She'll appreciate the pixel density

[safe trench]

⁉️

[dire igloo]

Stuff looks much sharper

[night girder]

Console kiddies.

[safe trench]

ikr

[night girder]

They grew up with console, so they never had to mess with "graphics".

[dire igloo]

There won't be a single good monitor with those settings

[safe trench]

1080p is good for game like fortnite

[night girder]

Based on what? Please link data.

[safe trench]

1440p is if your just playing regular games

[dire igloo]

Pixel density

[dire igloo]

It's about the combination of size and resolution

[night girder]

That's what she plays sometimes.

[night girder]

You know, I have a 27" / 1080 monitor. And it's really good imo.

[safe trench]

i hope she knows

setting her fps to unlimited is terrible

[night girder]

It's a AOC 27G2U

[dire igloo]

"imo" is the key part here

[safe trench]

me pretending i understand

[dire igloo]

The only indication this gives you about other 27" 1080p monitors is pixel density and only pixel density

[safe trench]

guys

if your pc keeps crashing in a loop

[night girder]

I don't see any pixels from where I am sitting.

[safe trench]

delete System32

"delete system 32" - Crowdstrike

[dire igloo]

Ever heard of AUO, BOE, Innolux or KTC?

[night girder]

So, the whole reason you would say 24" 1080 > 27" 1080 is because of pixel density?

[dire igloo]

Yes

[safe trench]

me on 1920x1080:

[dire igloo]

1. Your viewing distance isn't hers
2. Your eyes are older then hers
3. What works for you may not work for others

[dire igloo]

Resolution isn't the issue. Pixel density is

I too use a 1080p display

On my phone. Where it's less than 7" in size

[safe trench]

imagine if flash bangs were hdr ready

i think we would all be in a walking stick by now

[night girder]

I have a 24" 1080p to my left (iiyama). My main is 27" 1080p (AOC).

She should come over here and tell me what she prefers 😂

[dire igloo]

Ah yes

Because they're exactly identical except for size

[dire igloo]

?

[night girder]

Bro, the pixel density should be? You literally posted it here.

If she can't see any pixels on my 27" and she likes that size. Then it's done deal.

[dire igloo]

It's about viewing distance

[safe trench]

me on a laptop:

[night girder]

If she likes the 24" more, then it's also a deal.

[dire igloo]

And then she's at her desk and sits much closer

[night girder]

Then sit further away?

She is gaming on a BIG ASS TV SCREEN.

[dire igloo]

.

[dire igloo]

You go and sit closer

[night girder]

That's why you go bigger.

You never go closer to bigger, always further if it's an issue 😂

[dire igloo]

Tell her to sit closer if she complains about size

She's going smaller either way

So get her smth nice

[night girder]

That's what I am trying to do...

[safe trench]

https://tenor.com/view/memes-gif-9980668056796018353

[night girder]

but I don't want to dissapoint her either.

AOC 27G2SPAE/BK Zwart for 139 euro's ... 🤔

@dire igloo I called my sister.

And told here everything we said 😂

That 24" is better because of pixel density, but that I personally, don't mind that and use 27" because of the size.

[dire igloo]

Then stop insisting on outdated 27" 1080p shit

[night girder]

That's just your opinion.

[dire igloo]

No?

[night girder]

It's not because data shows, that pixel density isn't optinal, it's unusable.

[dire igloo]

It's anyone's opinion who stayed up to date in the field of monitors

[night girder]

If we talk about a perfect monitor, than 24" - 1080 seems, based on data, better.

[dire igloo]

You believed that a three years old "recommendation" from a purchasing guide was anything to hold value to

[night girder]

When I selected this monitor, it had good reviews. (27" - 1080p)

[dire igloo]

Define "good reviews"

The monitors I bought also had good reviews, majority of them were still shit

[night girder]

Pixel Density: The 24" monitor has a higher pixel density (pixels per inch, or PPI) than the 27" monitor because both have the same resolution (1920x1080). This means that the pixels are more tightly packed in the smaller screen, resulting in a sharper image. The 27" monitor will have larger pixels, which can lead to a less sharp image, especially if you sit close to the screen.

Viewing Distance: If you sit further away from the 27" monitor, the difference in sharpness may not be as noticeable. Larger screens can provide a more immersive experience, especially for gaming or watching movies.

Use Case: Depending on what you plan to use the monitor for, the larger screen may be beneficial for multitasking or gaming, while the smaller screen may be better for tasks that require precision, like graphic design or photo editing.

[dire igloo]

Cuz people are incapable of knowing what black smearing it, how and where it pops up and why it's there

[night girder]

and I tell you, this one is really solid. Believe me or not.

[dire igloo]

1. Pretty sure that's ChatGPT
2. There's zero actual information contained in this, just 1+1=2 typa shit

[night girder]

there are probably better ones out there 🙂

[dire igloo]

I don't believe you because everything you've been saying about monitors so far leads me to believe that you don't know how to judge monitors

[night girder]

Well, it gives the same information as you. Only with two extra points. A more nuanced answer 😉

[dire igloo]

The only thing I trust you with is spotting obvious flaws like pixel errors or a bad case of ghosting, neither of which I suspect this monitor to have

[dire igloo]

Which two extra points?
The "immersive experience" is just "bigger FOV = better" which isn't always true. Image sharpness and a whole lot of other things contribute to immersiveness too.

And the usecase blabla about productivity? Use a second monitor

You have the budget for two good 24" 1080p monitors

And no, smaller doesn't mean better for precision tasks either

It appears more nuanced because it's just throwing shit into the mix which doesn't matter - and also requires A LOT more nuance than ChatGPT is giving it

[maiden coyote]

So how does it handle blacks? How bright is it? What % of the color gamut, how accurate is it out of the box

[dire igloo]

Watch this and never ask ChatGPT for anything that requires nuance or factual accuracy ever again
https://youtu.be/QrSCwxrLrRc

[night girder]

nl.hardware.info/artikel/9667/aoc-24g2u-en-27g2u-review-144-hz-ips-prijsknallers.html

That's the review I read back then. Sadly, the website stopped writing reviews 😦

[maiden coyote]

Pixal density is a function of resolution and screen size... which makes it utterly useless information

[dire igloo]

Good questions, if only there was a place to check, like idk, a professional review??

[maiden coyote]

I normally use rtings for tv, but they do have some mointors

[night girder]

sadly, the data images don't open anymore 😦

[maiden coyote]

Those would be my questions if I'm looking at displays.

[night girder]

but they did a "full" review of the monitor. Oh, professional.

[dire igloo]

At least they had data, it looks at least solid for all I can tell.
They're transparent about methodology, give you all the data and they don't judge based on "feel"

[night girder]

But that's the monitor I have.

And they recommended it for it's price range.

[dire igloo]

If you cared about color accuracy, you'd calibrate manually no matter how it is in the box.
Then the question becomes: how well does it calibrate?

[night girder]

but I get you wont believe me it's a good monitor. But atleast they say the same. The professionals.

Anyway, that's besides the topic anyway. Niece will call me tomorrow so hopefully I will know more.

[dire igloo]

Stuff that gamers care about:
How's the motion handling? (ghosting? Black smearing?) What are the response times? What's the input lag? How's image quality (color, contrast)?

[dire igloo]

Prices change. But yes, they did a thorough test (not an unboxing with an unfounded opinion).
That's what you want from a good reviewer.

This is in no way comparable to the tweakers "review" that you linked

[night girder]

I would use hardware.info if they didn't quit.

I really liked the website.

The monitors* you posted? based on what were those? MSI G244F / AOC 24G2SPAE

[dire igloo]

1. That review is almost 5 years old, tech changes.
2. "Although the combination of the full HD resolution and the larger diagonal is not ideal in terms of sharpness, the 27-inch version does offer the best experience as far as we are concerned: the cons are less distracting and the larger size is fine for gaming." (Translated from the conclusion)

[night girder]

" offer the best experience as far as we are concerned" - is what I take from that.

"the larger diagonal is not ideal in terms of sharpness" - is what you take from that sentence 😛

You are not wrong about pixel density, but that doesn't mean it can't be a pleasant monitor like I said.

[dire igloo]

https://youtu.be/cUoxwTWo7Fg

[dire igloo]

It's about viewing distance ultimately

If you sit far enough away that the pixel sizes diminish, it's perfectly fine to use 27" 1080p.
After all, 55" 4K TVs are similar in terms of density - a bit worse actually

[dire igloo]

MSI one is just because I've seen people I trust recommend it

[dire igloo]

And again, a good experience five years ago may not be a good experience today

This review is as old as the RTX 2000 series

[night girder]

The PC is older 😉

I gamed with that PC + this AOC monitor.

But you can't find the model anyway. All sold out.

[dire igloo]

And yet here we are.
You're shopping for a monitor in 2024, not 2019.

Anyways, 27G2 and 24G2 were awesome monitors at the time (in their respective class) and are still good today.
This doesn't translate to other monitors at all tho

[dire igloo]

Not just sold out. Phased out too, no longer being made

[night girder]

It's up to my niece if she wants 27" or 24".

All I can do is tell her the difference.

[dire igloo]

Then we're still in the territory of finding a good monitor at each size

[night girder]

That AOC one you posted seems leggit for 24".

[dire igloo]

There's far more to it than just size, resolution, refresh rate and panel type

[dire igloo]

It is, it's 24G2 but upgraded - some say for the better, some for the worse. Ultimately a great monitor still and one of the least expensive good options at 1080p

[dire igloo]

Just compare Dell G2724D against Gigabyte G27Q

Super similar on paper, miles apart in testing

Well, as far as it goes with IPS, but still. A lot

Anyways, a good monitor is definitely in order, but I'd rather save the difference for a PC upgrade

[tough owl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seyvYETWf34 i love chevy

[languid gulch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRI94x5MEMM

[pure karma]

i cant wait to put my old pc against my new laptop

because they are basically tied on performance other than the laptop chip having 2 extra cores

[pure karma]

that is once i get off the dang "updates are underway" screen thats been updating for like 6 hours

[pure karma]

you know its a good start when the ONLY thing in the bios is a boot manager

like i tought that means XMP is off

and fan curves are locked too

[pure karma]

the day laptop manufacturers start getting sued for locked bios features is going to be a magnificent day

because its basically scaming

[languid gulch]

finally got my dad a halfway decent laptop

acer nitro 5, ryzen 7535/4050

huge jump up considering his previous one was a 7 year old dell with a dual core

the thing would pin 100% running task manager

[twin dew]

Why? You select the monitor size based on distance, and resolution then based on need.
There isn't universal solution.
So the universal line that 27" with "only" full-HD is "shit" isn't valid.
Depends on setup and person.

So larger monitor at farther away with lower resolution is valid solution compared to smaller monitor with higher resolution up close.

But the tweakers "review" linked was absolute crap as source for information if the specific monitor is good or not.

[pure karma]

honestly that only applies to tv's

to an extent it can but you reach a point where gettign further you still see pixelation and now everything is so small you cant see what your doing anyway

[twin dew]

Which is why in theory the windows DPI scaling is a thing.
But that causes other issues as the support isn't universal.

Which again makes it so that smaller resolution can be a bonus, not a minus.

Again same if the GPU just cannot do games in higher resolution, as the upscaling, monitor, gpu or via DLSS etc. to the native of the higher resolution screen can be worse than just running native on lower resolution screen.

[pure karma]

am i weird for thinking having no fan sensors on a laptop is insanity

yea and i hate it because i cant set a fan curve yet alone anything fan related at all

fair

honestly i wouldent buy anyone a laptop unless it is literally mandatory

[twin dew]

Younger eyes do benefit more from higher DPI, but the tolerance for "pixelation" is personal, not universal.

[pure karma]

id rather literally build a m8's pc for free than have to deal with repairing there laptop when it has no bios and half the features they paid extra for outright disabled permanently

[twin dew]

I mean if specific person is annoyed or not if they see "the pixels".
Some people just cannot tolerate that, some don't care at all.

For first, high DPI is a must
For the second, doesn't matter at all as long as stuff fits.

[pure karma]

a good pc configuration shouldent need to be cleaned to not overheat is the main rule i try to follow

for that reasson

[twin dew]

Any air moving thing needs to be cleaned from time to time from dust builtup.
Question is just if that needs to be constant thing or yearly.

And with proper case with intake filters, the cleaning just means cleaning those filters.

[pure karma]

my filters dont catch anything

i checked them after noticing all the dust inside and they where dead clean

[twin dew]

Then either they aren't really filters, or your setup is negative pressure one instead of proper positive pressure one.

[pure karma]

negative is what when there is more exhaust than intake?

[twin dew]

If you have more output than intake, air is drawn in from every source into the case, negative pressure inside.
Need to have little more intake than output so that extra air is pushed out through the other holes, positive pressure inside.

[pure karma]

yea i have a 3/7 ratio of intake to exhaust

[twin dew]

But the output isn't just the fans, it counts all those extra output paths too.

So you have very bad setup for the fans, causing that dust builtup inside as the nominal intake fans aren't doing much.

[pure karma]

good thing the side panels make the dust invisible

[languid gulch]

oh man i need to clean out my tower, it's been way too long

[safe trench]

maxywell

[pure karma]

its one problem after another i swear

4070ti is acting up now and its not fully generating some frames

im not even gonna bother i have other things to do

truth is its probably a lack of power because im defedently drawing 1000W+ out of a single outlet right now

[rustic panther]

You overclocked things didnt you

Also does this mean you broke and replaced 4 computers in as many years or 5?

I lost count a bit

[pure karma]

its not overclockable so i actually havent

[pure karma]

1

and its no longer broken because i fixed it

individual parts on the other hand i have lost count

[dire igloo]

... Is what I explained here
#off-topic-tech message

Thing is: people usually sit close enough for 27" 1080p to be noticable

[dire igloo]

Pinged the wrong message, but still

[twin dew]

But if that matters is up to the person.
And the upscaling artifacts from Windows DPI scaling and ingame scalings can be more distracting when you cannot run native for one reason or another.

And if the Windows DPI setting isn't 1:1, some games get really annoyingly scaled by Windows.
As UE for example doesn't correctly set the "I'm DPI aware" flag on the executable.

So Windows does scaling on the rendered frame after rendering, but before display.

[dire igloo]

She's using a big TV from idk how long ago

I think this is overcomplicating things

[languid gulch]

check if it's a CRT

[twin dew]

I did say that most likely the whole drive is toast and would need to be replaced.

You never answered what even caused the computer to stop booting, but I would expect it to be some kind of hit while the computer was on.

Drive.
Hard drive replacement.

So the laptop needs to be opened, old HDD removed, new one put in its place, and OS reinstalled from external media.

[pure karma]

by buying another drive

instead of another laptop

[twin dew]

Need a computer to create install USB.
So would need SOME computer to do it.

[pure karma]

i know i dident need a install drive to install my latest copy of windows

[twin dew]

Doesn't need to be in same place or same time as the install.
But you need external install media on USB stick or DVD.

In format that can be used with the specific laptop.

Yes?
But for that second step you need the external installer USB stick or like.

Which was what I was talking about.

[pure karma]

if you select a empty drive enough times as the boot device eventually it will just let you install windows no idea why but it let me do that

[twin dew]

Yes, if you do have suitable Windows install/recovery DVD.

[twin dew]

Because you had Windows Recovery partition on the computer on another drive.

[pure karma]

not on this one

had 2 unpartitioned drives

or unformated

[twin dew]

Because that laptop OEM recovery is also on the broken HDD.

So it is broken too.

[twin dew]

You probably had, and had only reformatted the normal partitions, not the hidden recovery one at end of OS drive.

Disassembly as in getting access to the SATA HDD.
On some laptops just remove small trapdoor in bottom.
On some remove the whole bottom plate.
On some remove the keyboard, not bottom, etc.

Just the amount to get access to swap the SATA drive.

[pure karma]

why would two brand new 2T SN850X's come with windows recovery partitions that randomly bring you to the windows install page after 10 or so boot attempts

[twin dew]

What laptop model?
The actual model string not branding.

[twin dew]

The installer is currently about 4GB, there isn't one included on ANY computer outside the harddrives.
And new retail drives don't come with recovery/install partition.

That is the branding, need the submodel.
PN: <something>

Or type: xxxx

Ok, that was probably enough:
Hardware maintenance manual for that chassis:
download.lenovo.com/consumer/mobiles_pub/lenovo_g_z_50_series_hmm.pdf

So battery out, bottom cover out.
Battery should be easy, put one side lock tab to unlocked position with red showing, then the other side to outward and it should pop out.

And then three screws at front to remove the bottom cover.

Pages 37, 38, 41.

Of the PDF numbering, not the on-page numbering.

And then lift from the seam up and back.

But can probably be done without battery removal.

That seems to be in this case only for safety.

So that the MB can have no power in any case.

Not enough voltage to do anything to you.
Just don't stick metal bits between various components on the MB.

And create random short circuits

It's more about accidentally dropping a removed screw on the MB and that shorting something etc.

But if one of the battery release latches is broken and bit is stuck in locked position, not a lot that can be done remotely.

Any SATA drive that is same thickness or less than the one in the computer.
So probably 9.5mm, but possibly 7.0mm.

There is also 11mm, but those are very rare.

So anything that physically fits.
SSD or HDD in 2.5"

From the spec part off the HMM:
Hard disk drive: 2.5-inch, 7mm / 9.5mm SATA

SSD if any way or shape you afford to get big enough one (in storage space) .

That Hardware Maintenance Manual

In here 1TB 2.5" HDD is 60e as the cheapest you can get.
But is probably shitty SMR one.
And 1TB SSDs start from about the same.

With lower capacity SSDs for cheaper.

And then 4TB SATA SSDs starting from 260e, with 2TBs in between.

GDDR: Graphics Dual Data Rate.
Just memory type optimized for GPUs.
Compared to normal DDR without the G.

And DIMM is Dual Inline Memory Module.
Just technical name for the memory stick form factor.

DIMM being the fullsized desktop ones, and SO-DIMM being smaller laptop variant. (Space Optimized?)

It was long time in past when we had others, SIMM in two variants etc. (Single inline memory module).

[twin dew]

Yes.
Normal maintenance thing for laptops.
The heatsinks will be very full of the stuff.

Field Replaceable Unit.

Just fancy name for component that can be swapped out in the field, and doesn't need visit to the repair center/factory.

There is section in the manual about removing the fan.

PDF page 46, manual page 42

Why 7900X3D?
It is not really good for either gaming (7800X3D is better), or creation (7950X is better), or both (7950X3D is better).

[wanton orchid]

I'm sad about the ryzen 9000 ram support state

was hopping the iod would change

does not make much sense to change that much the core cache bandwitdth management and not the iod pipeline

[twin dew]

Yes, laptop fans and heatsinks tend to completely clog up over time with dust.

Fan cannot really run without all the blades.
As it will tear itself apart from the unbalance.

Heatpipes from the CPU to the heatsink next to the fan.

Flat copper heatpipe from the CPU to that side heatsink the fan pushes air through.

And no, you don't want to remove that.

Just straight out, straight in one in that.
With couple of locking protrusions on one side that mesh into the MB side housing.

The fan connector is white and the MB side housing is beigeish?

Still from that manual, from the Fan removal page:

And you don't even need to disconnect that in all cases, there seem sto be enough cable to remove the fan to dangle on the cable (don't let it dangle, but enough to clean).

Not really. In theory from the static electricity from the airflow.

But much less likely than normal vacuum cleaners etc.

And again even compressor compressed air is more likely to cause damage.
The canned air stuff is all various kinds of completely evaporating hydrocarbons.
Normal air compressors leak oil into the compressed air in tiny amounts.

So in theory the stuff in the air can can be something that can damage some materials.
Just that computers don't usually contain any of the materials that can get damaged in the working parts.
Screen is different and the coatings could get damaged.

Yes, the fan should be prevented from turning.

How doesn't really matter, I just usually keep it from turning with a finger if explosed.

Just causes bearing wear.

Much more than normal use.

So no immediate effects, but can shorten the fans life significantly.

Like I said, it probably don't need to be removed.
And that type of connectors are pain to remove.

Just removing the screws and raising it up, possibly from the round back end first?
If there is enough cable slack, which there seemed to be in the pic.

extra cable in this case.

Point is to get the fan out of the position, and then you can move it much more freely in the cable range to clean it.
Without disconnecting.

Just need to be careful not to pull on the table and connector while doing that.

Only reason to disconnect the connector if is that cannot be done because of too short cable.

Just get the fan frame out of the slot it is in inside the other components first, and think then.

And the blades don't matter that much, the actual cleaning you need to do is the heatsink, after the fan is out of the way.

No, that is something else.

Moment.

Pull tab for the display connector.

Just aid to removing that connector.

Yes

That is the display out to the internal display, the white one is backlight power and control.

But you don't need to touch either of those?

They have nothing to do with the fan or fan removal?

So those two circled in the manual, the fan connector at bottom.

You really don't want to disconnect those two.

The fan screws and fan connector location, as you seem to be incapable of actually reading the manual on the page I said to look at.

So remove those three screws and try to lift the fan.

Mechanical hard drive and the laptop got hit while it was on.
And now the drive doesn't read properly, but in some cases after very long time can read something.
So almost certainly physically damaged drive.

Head hit the platter(s) while drive was running.

Yes, but not from "minor" bad handling.

Laptop with SSD can tolerate more extreme physical stuff than laptop with HDD, while running.

[edgy hazel]

The French

[willow pike]

https://tenor.com/view/excellence-muah-the-french-drink-orson-welles-ah-gif-15043093

[twin dew]

Jackpot, the USB-SATA 3.5" drive enclosure I bought uses ASMedia ASM1153E chip \o/

Working UASP support in Linux, TRIM might not be supported but it will be for CMR HDD anyways, so that doesn't matter.

And not JMicron chips that just don't work.

Firmware specific if TRIM is supported or not for that chip.

[twin dew]

And the physical drive installation can work as there is enough extra "clap" in the drive mounting to put the drive into position with thermal pad on top, and then turn the enclosure upside down to stick that, and then shim the bottom to force the drive against the thermal pad and enclosure top surface for cooling.

[heavy cypress]

Does anyone got a Ryzen 7800x3D? How many FPS are normal at tier 8+?

[twin dew]

Depends on save.
But still around 80-100 FPS in Taros 30MB save that needs 40GB of RAM to load.

Depending on exact spot and view direction.

For the CPU limit on my 7800X3D.

[heavy cypress]

That's massive, what about a 10 mb save?

[edgy hazel]

#satisfactory

[twin dew]

They sent here, but that was wrong, as this is Satisfactory related.

[heavy cypress]

7800x3d might be overkill for satisfactory, I only need like 100 FPS at most

[twin dew]

Not really, as anything else will probably only give half the FPS.

Satisfactory REALLY likes the cache.

[twin dew]

Yeah, sorry.

[edgy hazel]

smh baldur you should know better 😦

[heavy cypress]

Replace satisfactory with games coming out in 2024 😉

[twin dew]

And for that I don't have answers.

[edgy hazel]

Oh god you're so smart and quirky hihi

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/hackers-are-exploiting-critical-bug-in-litespeed-cache-plugin/
Aaaaand another WordPress plugin

[karmic socket]

is there an extra metallic frame around the hdd?

which screw doesnt come out ?

i'm gonna try, no guarentees tho

have you mperhaps mixed some of the screws (from the cover maybe ?)

if you don't have a specific space/desk/deskmat, always get a couple of clean cups or glasses to get your screws parked

also, you're trying to get the hdd out, right?

try to remove the black screws on the left of the hdd

then see if you can slide the metallic frame out of the laptop

then pins will come out as you slide out the carriage/sled

can post pic slightly zoomed out ?

remove the 4 screws, then slide by pressing on the hdd and move it like the arrow

ok

can you wiggle the mettalic frame or the hdd a little and try to lift the screw at the same time ?

you might need to remove the other 3 screws

ok, remove the other screws

are you sure the last screw is loosend all the way?

that's weird, can you try to re-screw it into place then unscrew it ?

hmmm, try re-seating the hdd by pushing it toward the connector

then aside from driving a drill bit into it / stripping the threads, I do not know how, to help you, sorry 😦

[karmic socket]

depends on the context, but for computer electronics, yes

[edgy hazel]

do you have another small slit screwdriver or something other small and flat?

apply pressure from under the screwhead upwards with it and continue to unscrew with your normal screwdriver

[stray badger]

usually AMD uses the term "APU" to denote CPUs that have better GPUs than their other CPUs. not excellent GPUs, just better than a vega 11 or smth

Intel doesn't usually use the term

[orchid verge]

i always found that funny. they should have went with EPU for extended processor unit. so C < E < G instead of A > C < G type thing

[twin dew]

Put a small flat head screwdriver under/to side of the screw that doesn't come out, and try to lift it and push it to one side, while unscrewing.

To help the screw come up, and to try to engage it to one side of the stripped counterthreads in the chassis.

[twin dew]

The official Accelerated Processing Unit is not good name in your mind?

[languid gulch]

maybe EGU for Extended Graphics Unit?

[twin dew]

When that name was made, AMD was betting on automatic Heterogeneous Computing becoming a thing soon...

That code that had been CPU only so far, would start using the IGP for acceleration of some tasks automatically.

OpenCL hype was strong at that time.

[gilded helm]

Pixel 9 Pro XL is performing nicely for me. It's doing things that made my Pixel 7 Pro throttle

Things which my LG V60 could do without throttling, so not necessarily impressive?

[wanton orchid]

why say "at that time" when nvidia just stole the offloading hype with cuda marketing

I'm all for hybrid 4 tier computing

• CPU with low latency masked data processing smd
• iGPU for low latency big data parralelism efficiency (number crunching)
• NPU/FPGA for more specialized small footprint fast processing hardware
• dGPU with complex fetch pattern, cross unit mixing (in sm), and low latency mixed scalar processing capabilities (small but there, rnda3 like, for masking, address resolution, mixing control etc..)

the big problem this days are locked layer of abstraction, with "proprietary" software control layers

[gilded helm]

USB-C still only uses its normal 4 power pins for 240W power delivery, right? I wonder if they'll develop an alt mode that changes more pins to power? Isn't that what Oppo is doing?
https://www.oppo.com/content/dam/oppo/en/mkt/newsroom/story/flash-charging-technical-pape/OPPO Flash Charging Technical Paper.pdf

[twin dew]

Different kind.
Not programmer made switch to GPU acceleration, like with CUDA.
But theoretical programs written in one language that would automatically adjust to whatever they run on.
With OpenCL as the base at that point, with OpenCL code running opportinistically on CPU, IGP, GPU, separate accelerator cards etc.

[wanton orchid]

I see
but the opportunistic part still needs explicit code support
because offloading does not have same behavior than direct execution

[twin dew]

The hype at that time was that the framework would just abstract that away, but no such thing actually was possible of course.

You coded once for OpenCL, and then that just ran wherever.

[wanton orchid]

the cross ccd latencies just show these things straight away
the data paths are very tight
you can't afford somewhat random offloading of some part of the code without explicitly preparing for it

[twin dew]

Yup, but the executive and marketing don't care about the reality :)

[wanton orchid]

tbh
the "general scheduling" behavior of current OS is already a problem for that

(and yes I knew it was a problem for that even before chiplet architectures went mainstream)

[twin dew]

Itanium like think, where the problems of making the compiler to take advantage of the Itanium features was just whisked out of view.

AMD has now made same mistake twice with GPU architectures too IIRC.

With RDNA3 in 7000 as the latest.

[wanton orchid]

we have a expression here
saying that is a bit like putting the wagon before donkeys

[twin dew]

Well, the first one was started when ATI was still separate?
Meaning the whole VLIW TeraScale.

No GP-GPU yet back then, but still problems filling the cores efficiently.

[wanton orchid]

I mean it already is pretty much a problem with smt/ht / e/c-cores

Or even virtualization irq management

and I despise the trend of patenting even the stupidest part of software
when patenting software is already borderline

there is freaking not enough author protection
and patent is not one

[twin dew]

US patent office is so undermanned and has no way to just straight up reject idiotic patents.
And the actual patent examinators don't have anywhere near enough time per patent to do review.
And if they try, the management will just cause issues.

And on rejection, the applier just makes some minor change and refiles, again and again and again.

[olive hamlet]

I'm trying to find parts to make a custom build for satisfactory (not themed, just good enough to play the game) with a budget of £2000. I would like an amd CPU and an nvidea GPU that could support playing the game on ultra or high settings with global illumination set to medium or high. Any part suggestion or tips???

[twin dew]

Not for that budget without most parts already existing?

[willow pike]

£200 will buy you an artist's impression of a gaming pc

[olive hamlet]

I mean £2000 sry

[willow pike]

oh

[twin dew]

Ok, with that, 7800X3D as CPU, almost any GPU you can buy.

[willow pike]

I thought you were a fuckin' troll

[twin dew]

My Radeon 6600 can do 100 FPS at all high for most saves on full-HD.

Dropping to 60 FPS in VERY large saves (30MB, way over uobject limit).

[willow pike]

my 7900XTX plays it real good

[olive hamlet]

Would 32 GB of memory be good enough

???

[twin dew]

For most cases.
That 30MB save needs 40GB to load, 32GB is enough to run it.

[olive hamlet]

ok

[twin dew]

But I would look at 48GB kit options too.

[willow pike]

i believe DDR5 can be stretched to 48 or 64GB for not much extra cash

[olive hamlet]

Would a 4070 be able to run high with global illumination on medium?

[willow pike]

a DDR5-6000 EXPO kit is what you want

[twin dew]

32GB is the minimum you can buy DDR5, as the 8GB sticks use shitty slow x16 chips.
And 16GB stick is the minimum you can buy x8 chips at.
That x16 vs. x8 can mean 20% difference in actual performance.

[willow pike]

yeah, global illumination doesn't use RTX stuff

[twin dew]

So 2x 16GB stick is the minimum you should ever buy as DDR5 currently.

[willow pike]

also get a graphics card that does not use that 16 pin power connector

[olive hamlet]

Ok

[willow pike]

it's cursed

you don't want that headache

[twin dew]

And 24Gb chips aren't that much more expensive than 16Gb chips, so I wouldn't expect the 24GB sticks (and then 48GB kits) to be much more expensive than 32GB kits.
64GB kits need double the chips.

[willow pike]

48GB seems like the good way to go

[twin dew]

Not possible if staying on Nvidia.
And it isn't that cursed.
Don't use third party adapters.
Check that it is seated fully.

[willow pike]

definitely fits in your budget

[olive hamlet]

I use PcPartPicker for compatibility issue checks

[twin dew]

PSU makers own cables are fine.

[willow pike]

don't non-founders use regular connectors

[twin dew]

And the Nvidia adapters are fine.

[twin dew]

No, Nvidia doesn't allow any maker to use 8-pins anymore.

[willow pike]

https://tenor.com/view/lethal-weapon-danny-glover-too-old-for-this-shit-gif-21707663

[twin dew]

There are PCBs with the pads, but still using 12-pin connector, as the maker didn't get permission from Nvidia to use 8-pins.

[olive hamlet]

This good so far? Also, should I downgrade the GPU to a 4070?

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/zHcQXk

[willow pike]

get whatever GPU you can afford, bigger better

not sure that's EXPO memory

[olive hamlet]

What is EXPO memory???

And do i need it?

[willow pike]

4080 super would be better for the extra VRAM

[twin dew]

Just automatic RAM "OC" profile with AMD optimization.
XMP is Intel tested, EXPO is AMD tested.

[willow pike]

EXPO DDR5 runs better on AMD systems, XMP DDR5 for intel

[olive hamlet]

ok

[twin dew]

But neither guarantees that the set will work at that in your system.
Just that the RAM can do it on golden sample test system.

But 6000MT/s set of either should work fine on AM5 system.

[olive hamlet]

What are your setups???

[willow pike]

yeah no matter what pc you buy these days there's a fair chance you'll need to fuck with the RAM settings a bit

[twin dew]

Depends if you go overboard.
That 6000 is almost guaranteed on AM5, 6200 probably works, 6400 gets iffy.

At 1:1.

[willow pike]

i got a 5800X3D, 7900XTX, 32GB DDR4-3600; short on cash so I'm keeping the 5800X3D for a while

[twin dew]

And you want 1:1.

[willow pike]

EXPO DDR5-6000 is the meta for the 7800X3D

[twin dew]

7800X3D, 64GB of 4800MT/s ECC (can to 6000, don't have enabled right now), Radeon 6600 (needs replacing badly).

For AM5 in general.

People keep buying higher, but that gets more iffy, even when the later AGESA versions have upped the chances of them working.

So the 6000 is the "this should work without tweaking in 99+% cases".

[willow pike]

i absolutely do not have time for RAM timing fuckery

tried it once, i still got grey hairs

[olive hamlet]

Any good DDR5 ram recommendations

[twin dew]

Just using the XMP or EXPO profile.

[twin dew]

Anything with Hynix chips.
16Gb M-die or A-die.
24Gb M-die.

Not Samsung or Micron.

[willow pike]

my instinct is to find a gskill kit but I haven't looked at DDR5 for a while, I suspect @twin dew knows

[olive hamlet]

Why not micron, I heard its good?

[willow pike]

ah I see we're still doing the "get the kit with this die" game

what fun

[twin dew]

Not for DDR5.

[olive hamlet]

Should I go with Gskill then?

[twin dew]

Samsung 4Gb B-die for DDR4 was the ultimate chip to get.
For DDR5 Samsung is shitty.

The RAM manufacturer doesn't matter much if you can just get the right chips.

[willow pike]

@olive hamlet the main problem you'll have is it's very hard to find out which chips a RAM kit uses

[twin dew]

Goes then into warranty, visuals etc.

With Corsair you cannot know without seeing the exact kit unit packaging.

[willow pike]

they'll advertise speeds and capacity but obfuscate what actual chips they're using

[twin dew]

As they use various chips interchangeably on same unit code, and just stick sticker on the actual packaging to specify.

F5-6000J4048F24GX2-TZ5NR <- That seems to be Micron.

And the very loose latencies would point in that direction too.

With GSkill at least the parts after - specify the chips used, but there isn't any form of system.
Just have to find the exact kit in some source that specifies.

The part before specifies the performance at XMP/EXPO, the part after speficies then variants of that spec like the chips used.

[willow pike]

no chatgpt variant is ever going to replace the likes of baldur

[twin dew]

So I would check how much more expensive any 48GB 6000MT/s DDR5 kit with CL32 or lower is compared to that CL40 kit.

As that would make it certain the kit is using Hynix.

[dire igloo]

no pre-trained generative model is ever going to replace actual knowledge and especially intelligence

[willow pike]

ye

[olive hamlet]

I found this: https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/technologies/expo.html

[twin dew]

Just marketing.

But like we said, EXPO is tested on AMD system.
XMP is tested on Intel system.

And EXPO has couple of additional features over XMP, but those are optional and most kits don't use them.

[dire igloo]

also isn't Expo open and XMP isn't? smth like that

[twin dew]

And seems that no-one is bothering to make low CAS 48GB kits of 6000MT/s, only the faster speeds...

Other than Corsair.

But it doesn't really matter as much with X3D CPU that the latencies are down.
And if not doing manual tuning, the exact chip doesn't matter either.

It just sets the actual settings you can use, below the XMP/EXPO.

[olive hamlet]

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/Xg2WGX/gskill-trident-z5-neo-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr5-6000-cl30-memory-f5-6000j3040g32gx2-tz5n

This looks good

[twin dew]

Yes, that is good kit if the price is right.

Loses some overclocking headroom over the 48GB kits, but again doesn't matter if just going with the XMP/EXPO and 6000MT/s.

From being dual-rank vs. single-rank on 32GB and 48GB kits.

[olive hamlet]

Good boots SSDs?

[twin dew]

But that also gives tiny bit more performance at same speed.

[olive hamlet]

Are samsungs value for money?

[twin dew]

I use them.
They had firmware problems at mean time, and depending on time the value isn't there.

Not sure about current pricing.

And the firmware issues have been fixed.

I personally rank them very high for most of them.
With the actual relevant low queue depth performance being among the highest there is, even when the headline sequential speeds can be lower.

But perform very well in actual usage, vs. synthetic tests on empty drives.

Have all the common problems of DRAMless drives, even when HBM fills in some.

[dire igloo]

below what I consider bare minimum to recommend, assuming you mean 980 non-Pro

I didn't say "not the best"

I said below bare minimum

[olive hamlet]

Is this a good boot drive (I'm gonna add a gaming drive as well) https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/FsqPxr/benchmarks/samsung-990-pro-1-tb-m2-2280-pcie-40-x4-nvme-solid-state-drive-mz-v9p1t0bw

[twin dew]

The real world numbers on the 980 non-Pro seems to be fine.
as high as 980 Pro, but only about 25% lower.

QD1 Random read and write.

[dire igloo]

good drive? yes
for OS/software? overkill
priced like a 2TB drive tho, hard pass imo

[willow pike]

my 980 pro ended up with some unrepairable bad blocks, Samsung replaced it with a 990 pro that's been solid

also goddang but it was a pain to clone my OS off of the 980

[twin dew]

As long as the SLC cache isn't gone over probably.
Need to look closer.
But that isn't problem for normal use.

[willow pike]

even dd would error out

[olive hamlet]

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/JgVtPF Good so far???

[dire igloo]

1TB:
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/gDTZxr
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/YVytt6

2TB:
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/qKdG3C
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/kDzXsY

[willow pike]

my main drive is now a WD black

[twin dew]

Samsung’s 980 absorbed roughly 100GB of data before degrading from an average write speed of 2.5 GBps to an average rate of 315 MBps for the remainder of the test.
It also recovered roughly 30GB of cache space within one minute of idle time.

[olive hamlet]

For gaming?

[twin dew]

I really need to look into those...
Because what mostly matters is those QD1 random speeds.
So where those go in that.

[dire igloo]

awfully overpriced needless AIO
overpriced overkill mainboard that gives you zero benefit
overpriced RAM
awfully overpriced drives, see above
horribly overpriced case

that system can easily fit a 4080 if you just don't overspend

[dire igloo]

and basically everything else too

[olive hamlet]

thx, I'll try and make the price better (altho I want to keep the case and AIO bc I love corsair)

[dire igloo]

1. brand loyalty is stupid
2. Corsair stuff isn't even that good

[olive hamlet]

I like the look

[pure karma]

not really

[dire igloo]

what about it?

[twin dew]

48GB kits with same specs were 190, when that kit is 210.

[pure karma]

depends what you do or what you play

[olive hamlet]

EVERYTHING

[dire igloo]

that's never true and you know it

[olive hamlet]

I'll switch to a different company if you give me one that looks as good

[dire igloo]

I can't show you something that "looks as good" if you don't tell me what makes good looks in your book

example: Thermalright Aqua Elite V3

never go 2dpc on DDR5

[twin dew]

No-one seems to have reviewed those 250S:s, and the 250H is shitty.

[twin dew]

So what were these recommendations based on?

[dire igloo]

Newmaxx sheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B27_j9NDPU3cNlj2HKcrfpJKHkOf-Oi1DbuuQva2gT4/htmlview#gid=0

and sort by price ascending

[twin dew]

And the makers of that sheet base the selection into it in what?

Because they only list the almost meaningless max sequential speeds in there.

[dire igloo]

they list controller and NAND

which allows you to find different drives with same config

[twin dew]

Having 2 sticks per channel on DDR5 causes major loss of maximum frequency.

[dire igloo]

for quad channel, yes. for dual channel, no

[twin dew]

Mostly to 3600MT/s in specs.

[dire igloo]

or a gigantic increase in system instability

[twin dew]

Or was it even lower.

[dire igloo]

4800 cl40 jedec last time i checked

[twin dew]

That is the AMD default for 1 stick per channel, for 1R and 2R both.

Intel one is just 4400MT/s for same on 2DPC MBs with 1DPC sticks.
The 5200MT/s is for just 1DPC MBs.

[dire igloo]

AM4 only the G ones, AM5 all except the F ones

[twin dew]

Ok, AMD has upped that to 5600 for 9000-series in 1DPC.
And 5200 for 7000-series.
But for all AMD AM5 CPUs the 2DPC at 4x1R or 4x2R is 3600MT/s.

And the performance of that Fanxiang S660, even in the 4TB config, is just bad at low QD random.

Marketing optimized firmware.

60MB/s read, 230MB write at QD1 4kB

[dire igloo]

looked to be MP44L config

ssd-tester.de/fanxiang_s660_2tb.html

same performance as SN770/NM710/MP44L - last two aren't surprising as they literally use the same config

Crystaldiskmark performance of E16 drives looks similar too

[twin dew]

So the same actual real-world performance as the Samsung 980 non-Pro in that sites testing.

With the higher sequential speeds raising the score.

[dire igloo]

for random 4k q1t1 yes, everywhere else 980 non-pro falls short

including price

besides, 980 non-pro is only available up to 1TB

[twin dew]

But point was, are there cheapist options that actually have good 1QD performance?
Because the sequentials don't really matter to anyone while using the drive.

[dire igloo]

define "good 1QD performance"

[twin dew]

Because they only matter if you are copying large amounts of data on the local computer.
Either inside the same drive or drive to drive. (moving on same drive doesn't care).

80+MB/s reads?
When 100+MB/s can be done.

And no, even the 980 Pro doesn't make the cut in that sites results for that it seems.

But ok, that drive is usable for the actual specs based on those tests, just misremembering stuff on my part on what is the current state.

But seems that that specific test program or the way that site tests has the QD1 results lower on several drives from what I remember other sites testing.

[dire igloo]

70 MB/s I can find easily, 80 drives up cost significantly

[twin dew]

But that is basically the most important speed spec for OS / game drive.
And that there aren't times when the drive goes unresponsive for moment, that some way old drives could do.

QD1 4kB read IOPS / MB/s.
IOPS would be the better way to measure, or average & max latency of a that kind of request.

[dire igloo]

the only drives that get 80 MB/s on the site I checked are E26 drives

not even 990 Pro does 80

[twin dew]

Sequential reads and writes to SLC buffer are completely meaningless.
The sequential writes after SLC buffer exhaustion can mean something.

[twin dew]

Yeah, that was what I was commenting that their QD1 results seemed to be lower than anyone elses.

[dire igloo]

you can simply reverse engineer: find drives that use standard hardware (like Phison E18 or Maxiotec MAP1602) and check which are good and which aren't

[twin dew]

But seems I was misremembering, as the 980 Pro results I did are around 74-75MB/s for the QT1 4k Read.
So their numbers are little higher.

[dire igloo]

then you can use the spreadsheet to check for drives with equal tech

[twin dew]

My 1QD 4k writes are much higher than theirs.
But then the sequential read is much slower for me and writes are the same.

[dire igloo]

as long as they are consistent, it's still usable

[twin dew]

Yeah.

But my memories were bad.

[dire igloo]

anyways, Transcend 250S uses same config as Adata Legend 960 which they did test

not really

[twin dew]

Those low QD reads are what affect loading times etc. somewhat.
The others don't really matter at all.

Low QD small writes are also used, but only really matter for synchronous writes.

[dire igloo]

it really doesn't matter what you get

[twin dew]

But we seem to have finally hit the point where the differences on that aren't meaningful either for most drives.

[dire igloo]

let's also not forget the longevity aspect, especially with people using Shadowplay left and right

[twin dew]

I meant the actual performance differences, not the extremes or endurance etc.

So endurance, and write performance once SLC cache is full, can still matter.

Because that "only" 300MB/s sequential writes, once SLC is full for 980 non-Pro isn't anywhere near the worst out there IIRC.

And don't think anyone tests random writes at that point.

[dire igloo]

MAP1602 my beloved - full drive pSLC

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1101160288901939290/1169551161863438336/Mpk3nptbKCQ3AzEPJNGTMf-970-80.png-1.webp?ex=66cae8e6&is=66c99766&hm=e7b2dfab6697576af056c3926793f176d00fdfa6aa5f36c4c3a59f6bd1a09dd7&=&format=webp&width=1067&height=600

I was just wondering: can you do procedurally generated Minesweeper?

[twin dew]

I would expect that it has been that since start.

[dire igloo]

*infinitely procedurally generated

[twin dew]

Remember, the game just has certain amount of mines, and rest comes from that.

Just randomized placement, then count the numbers for the other squares.

Mainly the problem with infinite would be if there is some very long ass way around cluster of mines that don't connect on screen or near the current position.

[dire igloo]

you can do a mine density over a certain area

[twin dew]

How large area around the current location would you pre-generate to check for that, and would you force additional mines to block routes that later generation would have allowed.

[dire igloo]

these sound like solvable issues

[twin dew]

That "place additional mines to block routes between already opened blocks after new area generation" would solve the only real problem.

Well, from already opened, to non-opened but already visible blocks.

And generating large enough area around the viewscreen to not have that as realistic issue wouldn't be heavy today.
So that the few extras could easily be added for the few cases that might happen with purely random placement if not using very low mine density.

And at very low mine density, the open areas would probably link anyways closer.

[night girder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ-QqXucJIw

@dire igloo So my niece called, apparently they (sister and niece) are leaning more towards to 27". So I did a little bit of research for 27

[dire igloo]

There's still technically 1440p, but I wouldn't do that if your niece doesn't even know how to use the settings properly

[night girder]

like the overdrive stuff?

The 27G4X is 1080

[twin dew]

Seems to be the LG 27" Full-HD Nano IPS panel.

Which is good one.

Not confirmed, but based on the specs.

But the larger than sRGB color space can cause issues.

[night girder]

fireworker suggesteded a few, one that fancied my eye was AOC 24G2SPAE. But now I am trying to see if they have 27" model.

[twin dew]

I would suggest trying to one that doesn't have color space larger than sRGB if possible.
If overblown colors are something that would be minus and not a plus.

[night girder]

you mean this?

[twin dew]

No.

That is overdrive overshoot.
Not the color space, as in what color is shown when signal of 255 is sent.

If it maxes at sRGB max red, or goes to redder.

Same in other directions.

sRGB as the grey triangle, human vision as the outer grey edge.
One of my old HP ZR24w:s (sRGB) in color in first, one of my newer monitors (120% sRGB, 90% P3) in second:

[night girder]

but according to reviewer, only issues when you go outside sRGB mode.

[twin dew]

The sRGB modes on most monitors suck ass and prevent using most controls to fix any issues in it.

[night girder]

not here, according to reviewer 😒

[twin dew]

Even brightness control is sometimes locked out.

But color controls almost always are.

[night girder]

sRGB

something else I don't know.

ah DCI P3

[twin dew]

So very bad whitepoints too, and not tuneable.

The Measured whitepoint whouls be 6500K, and was 6000K.

[night girder]

I can live witht he whitepoint

it doesn't need to be a perfect monitor for 140 bucks 😛

[twin dew]

That is the thing that is most visible.
That sets what color white is.

[night girder]

It's also adjustable in height, which I find important

if she get's taller she can adjust the height of the monitor.

[twin dew]

Basically with that 6000K it is much redder than it should.

[night girder]

I can look a bit more, to see if I can find any better

[twin dew]

Point is that the whitepoint is tuneable in the monitor menus always, but most sRGB limit modes disable that tuning.

And can have as badly tuned whitepoint as the default unlimited mode.

[night girder]

Thanks

[twin dew]

So if you want sRGB monitor, much better to buy one that doesn't need limiter for that.
Or just live with the expanded color space, some prefer that.

Most phones today use overblown color.

And you don't really notice unless you compare to something else.

Same with monitors.
If you aren't doing image editing etc. it doesn't matter that much if you don't notice it as distracting thing.

[night girder]

No, gaming monitor, 1080p, 27", IPS, adjustable in height. Max budget 250. First monitor for my niece. PC is old Asus strix GTX 1080 and i7 7700K. Currently she used a TV screen as her monitor since my sister had it in her basement. She isn't a hardcore gamer either.

[twin dew]

So if the extra color space matters or not depends on person.
But don't ever trust a limiting mode in monitor menus to be usable without checking the exact monitor unit.

Because that wrong whitepoint is much more visible than the extra gamut volume in most cases.

Its what is controlled by the monitor menu "Color" settings that often has something like "Reddish, Neutral, Blueish" or various numbers around that 6500K, and then Custom.

You can look how visible that is by opening something near pure white, and changing between those.

Eyes do adjust to whatever is used somewhat.
But then if there are multiple displays or like near, it will look very weird when switching between them if they aren't somewhat closely matched.

[night girder]

thanks for input Baldur

[twin dew]

So if the extra color space doesn't matter, that should be fine monitor after by-eye whitepoint correction, that is needed on basically all not-precalibrated monitors.

[dire igloo]

I'd assume that overblown colors are a benefit here, kids love flashy vibrant imagery

Even if it comes at the cost of color accuracy

[dire igloo]

I meant that you could still go for a 27" 1440p panel. but with what you said about your niece, I don't think that's wise - primarily because of the graphics performance impact

[cyan crescent]

If I’ve applied liquid metal to my cpu, is it safe to take the cpu block off then put it back on without having to reapply so i can check the underside application?

[wanton orchid]

everytime you take it off then on it will change the underside application

[dire igloo]

treat any type of thermal interface material as one-time use unless it specifically states otherwise

[twin dew]

Liquid metal can be reused, but can need respreading.

If it wasn't used on wrong surface materials and is now contaminated by things it dissolved.
Which also destroyed the surface.

[cyan crescent]

Idea(probably stupid) i want to apply liquid metal to my gpu waterblock. What if i used liquid metal on the silicon and put thermal paste on the other components on the die to protect them?

[twin dew]

LM needs to be applied to both surfaces.

[cyan crescent]

I know but i mean put the TP on the resistors to protect them incase LM gets on them

[twin dew]

IIIRC.

thermal paste is no-go for that, you need suitable nail polish as minimum, preferrably some purpose made stuff.

Not all nail polishes are suitable.

[cyan crescent]

Dont have any. Gpu comes later then as i dont have anything non conductive to protect them.

Unless i can get something from the local walmart

[twin dew]

Then get some before you try to do it?
Even if you have to wait for weeks?

Or just don't use liquid metal.

[cyan crescent]

I wanted to try direct die with liquid metal for my cpu but thats a completely different and new territory for me

Mainly cuz of how amd made the am5 ihs so damn thick

[twin dew]

And if you don't have the things needed to do it, don't do it.

[twin dew]

To not get warped CPUs like Intel, and then less than 1mm extra to make AM4 height.

Most of the thickness is to provide physical strenght.

[cyan crescent]

And “am4 cooler compatibility” only some coolers tho

[twin dew]

The height is the same, the mounting holes are the same, the keepouts are the same.
If some cooler isn't compatible that is on the cooler maker being idiot.

Stock backplate is the same.

Some cooler makers just replaced the stock backplate for some weird reason instead of just using right thread screws to the stock one.

[cyan crescent]

How? The am4 backplate for the cpu frame wasnt connected to the cooler mount so you could use your own backplate

How are some makers stupid?

[twin dew]

That they didn't use the AM4 stock backplate and shipped their own without any good reason?

[cyan crescent]

But that didn’t mean amd had to make it all one backplate

Not having it all one backplate would have retained all cooler compatibility

[twin dew]

So AMD should have made two separate stacked backplates?
To support the socket itself with one and another for CPU coolers?

And then that CPU socket plate would have had to be very thin to not lose the cooler backplate compatibility anyways.

Intel has had standard socket backplate for a long time that the cooler backplates need to fit over.
But their cooler holes don't have stock backplate.
AMD has the longtime standard cooler backplate which they just modified to act as socket backplate too.

And any cooler that used the very longtime standard mountings just worked.

And as the non-backplate mounting hardware couldn't be shared between Intel and AMD because of that Intel socket backplate anyways, there was no reason why the makers kept using their own backplate for AMD.

Beside inertia and not wanting to do actual redesign instead of tweaking dimensions of same parts.

AM5 is the first AMD socket where the forces for CPU mounting aren't just sideways on each pin.

For consumer socket I mean.
Threadrippers and Epycs have been LGA for long time already, but need torque screwdrivers to install.

So AM5 needs MB backside support for the socket, to not break the MB PCB.
And either they would have needed much more complex socket mechanism, or that thich IHS they selected, to not make the CPUs bend in socket like Intel has.

Because while the third party Intel contact frames solve the issue same way as the server CPUs do, that just isn't suitable solution for general consumer issue.

[willow pike]

some suspect the thick IHS is to allow more advanced packaging

[twin dew]

It was specifically said to be for physical strength, then thickened slightly for the AM4 compatibility, 0.6-0.8mm IIRC, in interview with AMD engineers.

[willow pike]

ah i didn't know that

no need to get one of those placebo thermalright frames

[twin dew]

Would in a way been better solution, but like I said, not suitable for general consumer use.

[willow pike]

I've seen people sour on them and get inferior contact pressure/have to downgrade RAM speed

[twin dew]

And they aren't placebo for Intel CPUs.
Just that if they have big or small impact depends on the exact cooler.

[willow pike]

though this is all anecdotal

[twin dew]

Like Noctua did three different ones for the new one.
One optimized for use without one, one optimized for AMD (very flat), and then third "normal" in between.

[twin dew]

Because the installation is finicky.
If you don't exactly follow the instructions and do the tightening in wrong order, you get very bad results.
And that is the reason why the original thermal grizzly and the server ones need torque screwdrivers to install.
As they aren't "tighten until contact with MB" type.

As that distance isn't static between MBs and CPUs.

[twin dew]

So this would point to too thick contact frame on MB with socket lower than average.

With the Thermal Grizzly one, that isn't designed to ever hit the PCB that can be accounted for, but all the others are for "average", as desided by the maker.

[twin dew]

Elon Musk was just forced to reveal who really owns X. Here’s the list:
fortune.com/2024/08/22/elon-musk-x-twitter-owner-list/

From another source based on that list:

Elon Musk was forced to reveal who financed his purchase of Twitter.
Amongst owners of Twitter there are two Russian oligarchs who are close to Putin and we're sanctioned over the Russian invasion of Ukraine: Petr Aven and Vadim Moshkovich.

Also Saudi "Kingdom Holding Company"

And couple of other entries from Saudi Arabia.

[night girder]

That sounds weird.

[twin dew]

How so?

Also this entry 😆

Series N Dis, a series of Atreides Special Circumstances Fund, LLC

[night girder]

"Who really owns X" ... just sounds weird.

[twin dew]

Ah, blame Fortune.

[night girder]

You can say that about Microsoft, Google, Apple, ... any company with investors.

I am more curious, about the lawsuit from X vs advertisers tbh.

https://tenor.com/view/elon-musk-gif-8632310783635205289

[twin dew]

Against advertisers.

[night girder]

👆 He went from that. To lawsuit.

[twin dew]

Not investors, advertisers that stopped advertising on Twitter.

[night girder]

Yes typo. Don't panic 😄

[twin dew]

Because Musk at that point was annoyed and now he is scared.

[night girder]

my point is, he literally said "Go fuck yourself" to advertisers.

Very strong language.

[twin dew]

Yup.
But that was then, and now he is going under from that.

[night girder]

And now is quietly fighting them, like bro...

man up or shut up.

[night girder]

I don't give a rat ass. Think before you say something.

[twin dew]

And instead of rolling back the changes that caused the advertisers to go away, he is trying to litigate.

[night girder]

Even now he must realize how weak this is, making strong bold statements and then crawling back.

[night girder]

doubling down.

[twin dew]

No, that is doubling down in a way.

[night girder]

A good leader, a true CEO, wouldn't have said it in the first place.

And if they did, admit their mistake, take PR hit and move on.

[twin dew]

Nah, Musk is idiot, always has been, with no filter.
Some great ideas, some very bad ideas, and he cannot differentiate himself.

[night girder]

Like the CEO of Crowdstrike, say what you want, he takes it like a champ.

And honestly, a lot of people are saying it's a smart thing to do, just accept that you fucked up. Learn from it. Move on.

[twin dew]

But the great ideas did something great with Tesla and SpaceX.
And with SpaceX he still has enough outside forces inside the company to keep him in line.
But Tesla is currently getting fucked by him.

Because there isn't any balancing forces there anymore.

And the company is too big to benefit from Musk.

[night girder]

where did I read about Tesla not doing so well.

Oh, right sorry can't go into that. Politics.

But due to political reasons, Tesla is taking a hit. Or so I heard in the news.

[twin dew]

And like previously talked, Musk went completely crazy during COVID time politics.

Tesla is suffering from Musks demands, at time that it isn't in "way ahead of everyone else" position anymore.
And then Musk is also holding the company hostage at this time.

[night girder]

I once defended the man, but he too far gone now.

[twin dew]

With that "You must reinstate my giant payday or I take my toys and leave"

[night girder]

I heard other things are going on with Tesla.

[twin dew]

But basically he was unstable before, and needed careful control and counterbalancing.
And went completely nuts because of COVID lockdowns.

[night girder]

COVID really made him butt heads with the politicians.

[twin dew]

With X he has no counterbalance, and it is purely post-nuts thing.
With Tesla he today has almost no counterbalance it seems.
With SpaceX there is enough counterbalance still outwardly.

[night girder]

he saw it as a personal attack, the working from home regulations etc.

[twin dew]

Closing the California Tesla factories.

[karmic socket]

Don't forget Neuralink...

[night girder]

oh right

Noland Arbaugh was first patient

[twin dew]

But I have to head to bed.
I had already closed Discord, but hit that information.
But explains some of the content moderation etc. decision in Twitter/X.

[gilded helm]

WIth Tesla he has the opposite of counterbalance, plenty of superfans just feed the echochamber of praise for his stupid ideas.

I've seen it plenty in online Tesla owner communities

[maiden coyote]

wifi is good [:

[safe trench]

my wifi card seeing wifi 6e:

https://tenor.com/view/emoji-reaction-meme-haha-emoji-gif-gif-17470264342123209059

[maiden coyote]

That cost too much.

[safe trench]

well uh

[maiden coyote]

I'll take donations though. I'll need about 1k usd to upgrade to 6e.

[safe trench]

our router can do wifi 6e

but we have only 1 gig

[maiden coyote]

I'm on 300/300 xgs-pon fiber.

so if I wanted to go to 5 I could. most of my stuff is local network. which is gbe.

[safe trench]

man

i only get 200

and people here have 1 gig

and their dorms could have done 10 gig.

i feel like a peasant

[maiden coyote]

200/200?

[safe trench]

200/40

[maiden coyote]

that's probably cable then.

[safe trench]

i cant do ethernet

"ooh look at how eco freindly and how much plastic were saving by not including a disc drive and an ethernet port!"

[maiden coyote]

your wifi should get you the full 300 down if you're on 6e tho.. unless other people are using it.

[safe trench]

people use it

my wifi card can do 2.5ghz

[maiden coyote]

you're on 5ghz for that speed.

[safe trench]

huh?

[languid gulch]

well, butch & suni aren't coming home on Starliner

[safe trench]

OH

[maiden coyote]

wifi is 2.4, 5, and 6 ghz

[safe trench]

oh

i read my thing wrong

[maiden coyote]

2.4 is 144mbps with 20mhz 2x2 ( I think ) 5 is 600mbps 1x1 or 1200 mbps 2x2 and 6ghz is just fast lol

I wish I could've got to where our pc's are so I could've wired them.. or just spent the extra cash for 6e and a 2.5gbe switch.. until I realize how much extra that switch and hardware would've cost me

[safe trench]

ethernet solves everything

[maiden coyote]

putting holes in the wall makes more work xd

[safe trench]

shush

hide this from teardown players!

[gilded helm]

How does the EU law work? Apple won't be allowed to sell lightning phones starting 2025?

It'll be interesting to see the places they keep selling the 14.

[night girder]

?

Iphones sold, within the EU, need to have, by then, universal charging. Which will be USB C.

I feel double about this law.

Yes I don't want 500 different USB cables to charge stuff with. On the other hand, I don't want to stop innovation either and be stuck with USB-C until the end of times.

[gilded helm]

Right, but they'll probably clear out iPhone 14 models in the rest of the world. I wonder how many EU folks will be trying to import the 14 in 2025 or some shit.

[night girder]

but I think this is more a case of Apple trying to get a monopoly and more grip over it's eco system than wanting to innovate 😉

iphone 14 will have USB C?

Oh, fuck. USB‑C-naar-Lightning-kabel. Huh.

[gilded helm]

I think Apple's monopoly results in them stagnating rather than innovating in a lot of cases, lightning being one of them. Same with Google, etc.

[night girder]

Apple will say it's for innovation. I think it's one of the arguments I read the most regarding this topic.

What do you think is the latest **big **tech related innovation Red Maw?

[gilded helm]

'This will stifle innovation' is one of the most boilerplate arguments made by companies like Apple, it's almost impossible to take seriously companies have cried wolf over that so many times.

Otherwise generative AI is a huge innovation that's going to make a lot of waves. There's no predicting how that will play out at this point.

[night girder]

I was thinking the same.

And to be fair, AI is a innovation, not coming from the big Tech companies we know (Google, Microsoft, Apple, ...). They are even "behind" and buying AI tech from the ones who made it big (like OpenAI).

[gilded helm]

What generative AI is going to do to music is a big unknown all in itself, and that's just one arena.

[night girder]

Google was focusing on glasses and stuff. Apple was focusing on ... I don't know what. Thinner hardware I guess? Microsoft is focusing on ads and W11. And bam then openAI and other came with real innovation and caught em off guard.

[night girder]

It's already doing a lot. Read a few articles this summer about summer hits probably being AI generated.

And I think Sony made a deal a while back? Let me research.

[gilded helm]

Max Martin is just going to become even more productive now. He can use all his own work, plus everything pre-1930 for training.

[night girder]

Oh, they didn't make a deal. They are sueing 😄

[gilded helm]

The legal landscape will eventually settle, but in the end you won't be able to stop generative AI from being trained either in places overseas that don't respect IP, or by companies big enough to obtain a training library that's unambiguously legal.

[night girder]

Now Sony and co are scared because they have big contracts with artists, and they paid those artists and want their profit.

But once Sony, Universal, can use AI themselves to make some 💰, it wouldn't surprise me they do in the future. When contracts are expired.

Let's just hope there will always be room for real human made music on the mainstream platforms 🙂

I wouldn't mind to also have AI music, aslong as we can pick 🤷‍♂️

[gilded helm]

The arts industry stands a chance of getting some decent money for the talent, but other places not so much. It's generally always been the case that when you're on company time, the company owns the results of your work. So all the scientific/industrial work now using this stuff isn't going to make anyone but the shareholders profit.

If 2pac concerts continue to do well, that's troubling though.

[night girder]

I still wonder what will happen to creativity if hypothetically AI starts to learn from AI and there is no more human input.

[gilded helm]

Ourobouros

[night girder]

If the learning pool is [Song 1 (made by AI), Song 2 (made by AI), Song 3 (made by AI), ...] what result will that have. Will creativity stagnate. Or maybe not.

[gilded helm]

Steve Burke talked about that with the gaming assistant Nvidia is playing around with.

[night girder]

Interesting

[gilded helm]

The assistant would need the online community and resources for the game to develop before it could work effectively. So it would be bad on day 1 because there's no wiki to crawl yet.

[night girder]

community driven AI

[gilded helm]

My own speculation is that EA games like Satis, or any game that evolves greatly over time like Anno 1800 will be dysfunctional with such an assistant. because the web will contain a lot of out of date info that never gets removed.

[maiden coyote]

it will, at least with current ai tech. if inputs are a+b=c then c+a=ac and so on.

[night girder]

ecxactly

[maiden coyote]

it won't make anything "new" that's not already in the model.

[night girder]

Ofc, the training pool is way bigger, but that's my theory.

[gilded helm]

That plagued me a lot when I used to play Galactic Civ 3 more. The game has had so many big up dates that overhauled major mechanics or tweaked others. And it has a relatively small community, so that are many, many, pockets of out of date information. Compounded by the fact that it never received as much polish as it should have, so there were unknowns about whether some things had bugs.

[night girder]

Unless they program in that the AI "experiments" and may deviate from what it has learned from other songs.

[maiden coyote]

the pool is currently fixed, it can't make something that's not already there.. I say currently, because at the rate it's moving ai combining models into completely new models based off of, but different than the data in the first two models is probably soon.

[safe trench]

ai taking over is honestly the dumbest thing to worry about

if it does anything bad

[maiden coyote]

but as is if I made a model for stable diffusion based off of the output of a model that was used to generate something, It's either a scrambled mess, or it looks the exact same.

[safe trench]

we invented turn it off

[night girder]

100% not what we are talking about 😄

[safe trench]

yeah

i know

[night girder]

just the general impact of AI on society, I am not afraid of it.

[safe trench]

so am i

[night girder]

like the industrial revolution

[safe trench]

btw

[maiden coyote]

they choose to call it AI and it's not.. it's llm's and lama's.

[night girder]

it changed society drastically, but we still here and better for it.

[safe trench]

if climate change isnt real

then why did club penguin shut down

[night girder]

Yeah, but this discussing has been going on for 2 years in this channel. AI != ML.

My opinion; I use the term AI to keep it simple. Main stream media uses it.

[maiden coyote]

very different from 2000's AI lol

[night girder]

I know, it's not true AI. But just to talk with my friends/family, I use AI. ML will confuse them.

All they hear/read is "AI" on the news

[maiden coyote]

I agree.

[night girder]

and I cannot blame the news either, the companies sell it as AI.

it's companies called like: openAI

I do think, human input AI has still a chance to create something creative.

[safe trench]

honest

i feel like how much we hear ai all the time gets anyoying

[night girder]

like the time it was all "bitcoin this and bitcoin that", then it went into "NFTS NFTS NFTS" and now it's AI 😄

[safe trench]

IKR

[maiden coyote]

if it's used as a tool, it can be amazing... although it'll certainty be used as a tool to replace jobs.

[safe trench]

like even apple and google is shoving it down our mouth

[safe trench]

its word is overused

[night girder]

I hope for a combination, I think AI is powerful in human hands.

[maiden coyote]

you know, customer service when you call them.. when you get past their automated help assistant.. and you get to a person.. it's another computer.

[night girder]

not sure if that makes sense?

[safe trench]

Google answers. “Mix about 1/8 cup of Elmer’s glue in with the sauce. Non-toxic glue will work.

i love my pizza with that

yum!

[night girder]

Example: If AI gives a dumb answer, a human can reform the question, to get a better answer.

[safe trench]

nah bro trust me

[night girder]

Aslong someone is in control, it's all fine. Even for art.

[safe trench]

glue in pizza hits

[night girder]

That was funny 😛

[safe trench]

its so tasty!

[night girder]

You know what AI will be perfect for?

Making subtitles. It will get near perfect.

I know YT has something that makes subtitles, but it's far from perfect.

[safe trench]

true

[languid gulch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI_SN7cpTas

i can't remember the last time i saw a positively-named prebuilt review from steve 🤣

[safe trench]

prob was an sponsor

man

[languid gulch]

nope, hidden buyer

[safe trench]

i hate embargos relase dates

i said what i said

[night girder]

you don't believe GN is legit?

[languid gulch]

i'd love to see the evidence

[safe trench]

like

[languid gulch]

cuz he roasted the absolute FUCK outta them last time

[safe trench]

8 videos about 1 product come out at the same time

and jre didnt even do anything to that new samsung

he was just yapping

he didnt test its durability

[night girder]

Cuyar, random question. Did you draw your profile picture*?

[languid gulch]

your evidence for being sponsored by Starforged is.........not reviewing a phone?

[languid gulch]

lol nah, i ain't talented like that

[safe trench]

im not talking about starforged

[languid gulch]

then what was this in reference to

[safe trench]

talking with the privlage of talking

[languid gulch]

wut

[safe trench]

now your feeling it

[languid gulch]

ah k, got it

[night girder]

https://tenor.com/view/talk-talking-shit-like-its-my-job-gif-5470153

[languid gulch]

yup

[night girder]

Cuyar, what is he on about in the beginning?

[safe trench]

whats the rod for?

[languid gulch]

thermocouple

[maiden coyote]

looks like a thermo..

measures temperature

[night girder]

they "mil" a channel into an integrated heat spreader to validate a curious microcode thermal behavior

👆 That's literally what he said, and it confused the hell out of me 😂

[languid gulch]

2 wires of different metals or alloys that lets you measure temperature really accurately

[night girder]

something about bugs in Intels microcode

[languid gulch]

details on that part at about 15m mark

[safe trench]

i refuse agree that intel cpus run that hot they need that

[languid gulch]

it's independent verification of claims

especially when there's evidence of unreliability

[night girder]

I see now. Anyone knows what "mil a channel" means?

[languid gulch]

mill

with a drill bit

[night girder]

Oh, never heard of it 😒

[languid gulch]

it's a drill that can cut things laterally instead of straight through

[night girder]

That looks satisfying

[languid gulch]

definitely

[night girder]

So just finished watching it. The drawbacks are, Intel and temperature overhead

[languid gulch]

yea, i'm actually impressed

especially for such a tiny case

that also means that if you go AMD with it it'll be way cooler

[night girder]

Oh, and there was paint missing.