satisfactory

[lean ferry]

It would be so much more fun depoting and slopping everything

[white dawn]

No clue; just search the mods db? Or ask in the modding discord?

[acoustic heart]

Yeah, that seems a bit silly

[lean ferry]

OHH I forgot modding discord exist

[daring stag]

@acoustic heart smart splitter with overflow instead ?

[north cloud]

oh yeah me too

[white dawn]

I mean AFAIK they've got an online mods database which is searchable and everything. Your question could probably be answered by a minute or so of browsing. :)

[stray loom]

Depends on the volume of items you need really. If you need several things but none of them in crazy numbers you can just put each item into it's own train car. You just have to be careful that you keep in mind which item goes in which car so you don't get lines mixed up and cause a stoppage

[daring stag]

I mean it can get messy for sure if a freight Station ends up with 5 different item

[lean ferry]

Let me check

[acoustic heart]

Just curious. How challenging is phase 5 compared to phase 4? Currently working on my phase 4 factory. Want to plan a bit for the future I suppose

[placid stirrup]

You won't really need to plan for phase 5 in 4, at least nothing I can think of

[daring stag]

According to stats the 1000 tickets is the real endgame goal

[stray loom]

The endless refinery spam and slow speed is why I actually kinda prefer the copper alloy ingot alternate instead. Foundries are cool to work with and iron is so abundant that I don't really care if I use a bunch

[acoustic heart]

Is that for the golden nut thing?

[white dawn]

Phase 5's generally considered a bit easier complexity-wise. The most complex things will just be the Phase 4 parts you need as ingredients

[hollow hazel]

@steady brook #screenshots message
You should search YouTube for "funny reload animations" and have a laugh. 🤣

[acoustic heart]

Yeah, I definitely think I’d rather try that recipe next time. Refineries are so large

[white dawn]

Yeah, Alloy's a great recipe. :)

Especially for any factory which needs both iron and copper, since you can use both the alloy recipes at the same time

[acoustic heart]

I have like 450 hours in this game. This will be the first time I’ve completed all the phases. lol

[stray loom]

It also saves you the pain of building more dang water extractors 😭

[acoustic heart]

I’m really bad about restarting games if I’ve been away from a save for too long. I’m trying not to do that anymore. Not just with Satisfactory either.

[stray loom]

You aren't alone. I started a new save for 1.1 because I stopped playing my 1.0 save back in November and I couldn't figure out what I was doing lmao

[ashen belfry]

You can change which items to unload in the advanced settings of the train. Pretty neat

Or use a little sorter after the station.

[stray loom]

The issue with a sushi train car is that you have to sort it and have a sink to handle any overflow or you will shut everything down when one item backs up. Easier to give each item a dedicated freight car. If it backs up it wont cause an issue because the other stuff is still going to get delivered

Not saying it can't work. But I'd rather just use the extra space

[acoustic heart]

Sushi belts and such scare me lol

I might try it one day, but I’ll stick to my usual manifolds

[stray loom]

Sushi belt can work really well for some manufacturer recipes where you only need a small number of each item

Saves you the headache of placing a million different belts

[acoustic heart]

That makes sense

[knotty depot]

If you mean the crater-like area with a lake, you can't use all 4 nodes near it at the start for power
one is obstructed

[acoustic heart]

I’m building my phase 4 factory in the desert. First time I’ve ever built in the desert. I wasn’t aware of how great it is. It’s relatively flat and open. Tons of resources.

[stray loom]

Especially for some of the space elevator parts like adaptive control units. You only need 32.5 items/min total at 250% speed so you can run several with a single mk2 belt feeding it all

[fluid sapphire]

my with my belt lasagne hheh

#screenshots message

i did consider sushi, but it wouldnt have worked for my setup

[shy mulch]

I've done it in some very painful ways when I really should have just gone full sushi

[fluid sapphire]

sushi works best if you have exact quantities coming in

[ruby mountain]

curious why we cant select items when searching by simply pressing enter, would be a lot nicer

like in a programmable splitter

[fluid sapphire]

yeah sounds like a UX inconsistency, not sure why that doesnt work if using the searchbar normally does allow this

[shy mulch]

Sushi can definitely cause some other problems if you don't have exact numbers

[lament niche]

Fixonium rods, project parts, etc

sushi is the problem

[white dawn]

Heh, well okay, granted, Ficsonium's its own little optional category on there. But IMO once you've got the P4 parts automated already, building P5 on top of 'em isn't as complex as the P4 parts were

Once you've figured out how to handle the dark matter loop, there's not much else that's complex about P5

(Which I don't mean as a complaint!)

[fluid sapphire]

yeah i anticipate i could get through phase 5 pretty quick once all phase 4 stuff is set up

[boreal musk]

it only took my half time i did in phase 4 to finish 5

[white dawn]

I suppose given that Phase 5 only has a single tier, that math checks out. :D

[leaden turret]

@open bone new merch idea: space elevator coat stand

[vestal crown]

Is there a way I can make foundations follow the rail curves so I can place them below, or do I gotta make an awkward 90 degree turn

[ruby mountain]

ctrl+scroll for finer adjustments

[boreal musk]

pillars snap below rail, you can snap foundations into the pillar and nudge them vertically

[rugged stratus]

Can anyone help me? I have 300 items going, but only mk3 belts

[rustic hare]

am I a maniac for remapping up-down arrow as nudging up and down, basically having to turn my player 90 deg to use left-right to nudge backwards-fowards?

[lucid pagoda]

what T7 and T8 items are only used for other assembly lines? i dont wanna automate stuff i wont need

[tender raft]

instead of merging them all into one belt, split off into 2 belts of items

soif you have 3 machines each doing 100, belt split belt, and merge into two belts of 150

if you have 4, merge each pair of machines into 2 separate belts... etc. you get the idea

[white dawn]

I don't have it broken out by tier, so apologies if I include some non-Phase-4 stuff, but: Aluminum Scrap, Copper Powder, Electromagnetic Control Rod, any of the nuclear-power-chain resources beyond Uranium itself, Pressure Conversion Cube

[lucid pagoda]

thats good, thank u, exactly what i needed

[white dawn]

Though I eventually found it extremely handy to have Aluminum Scrap going into some Depots just so I could pre-fill manifolds. Waiting for 500-stack-size manifolds to fill up can be annoying

[naive pendant]

Al scrap does tend to be produced at very fast rates, so there's that.

[lucid pagoda]

i use pure aluminum so mk1 belts split it perfectly

[white dawn]

Yeah, indeed. Though I still found it persistently annoying enough that I enjoyed being able to pre-fill 'em. :)

[naive pendant]

I feel yah. My standard manifold production setup cuts the output to let the manifold back up and manual fills from DDs. Don't think I did for Al though as my design was smaller, modular without that much belt buffer.

[white dawn]

I was actually considering Depot'ing ores, too, on my next run

Never made sense to store it in the pre-Depot days, but being able to prefill manifolds easily might be handy

[naive pendant]

Basically free to do, so seems fine.

[white dawn]

Though I realize I'm optimizing something that you'd only spend like 0.01% of your ingame time doing, so it's probably not even worth the thought I've already put into it. :D

I generally let factories start running as I build them, so usually stuff ends up full by the time I've got the next step ready anyway

[naive pendant]

For me the manual effort to speed up manifold reaching final state is more about the total time before I can verify the build is working properly letting me move on to something else.

Technically can just let it do its thing and eventually equilibrate. But then it massively delays that verification.

[dense violet]

go into youtube and search, satisfactory, rail, foundation, and maybe curve

[white dawn]

Could search for "satisfactory wan method" as well; very easy technique for doing nice-looking foundation curves

[lucid pagoda]

https://youtu.be/cuebs3Irbbs?si=h3_VIgLN_aQy7lyO\

[dense violet]

they were asking specifically for foundations under rails? shrug

[lucid pagoda]

that video is my method but there are 3 if im not mistaken

[white dawn]

An alternative is using a "pillar" design, where rails have pillar-type supports periodically but are otherwise unsupported. For me, at least, that tends to look realistic enough that I like it, and removes the need to try and deal with funky foundations constantly. Though obvs that's personal preference and many folks won't like that

[dense violet]

it depends what you're trying to do, but htis is a good way to place the foundations after the rail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9V0fQPq3Xo&t=4s

[white dawn]

I guess I'd figured that any curved-foundation method would be suitable for rail, but point taken. :)

[dense violet]

well with the rail method you can do much more custom curve angles

[stray loom]

https://ficsit.app/mod/FoundationsUnderRailways This mod supposedly would automate that. Never used it so I can't comment on how well it works

[vestal crown]

Yeah, I already got curves for roads figured, but rails dont align with whatever method Im using very well

[lucid pagoda]

is 4 supercomputers/min gonna be enough for a lil while?

i dont wanna be supercomputer starved

[fluid sapphire]

probably easily more than enough if you mean just for building material

[lucid pagoda]

yea

cus if i remember correctly nuclear plants use supercomputers and i plan on many, many nuclear plants

i will decimate the swamp

[white dawn]

Even more than you need for building material, honestly. Your total needs, as usual, will vary depending on how "big" you're building and what recipes you choose

[stray loom]

For building probably. It's 5x per mk3 miner, 10 per NPP, 10 per particle accelerator, and 20 per quantum encoder

[dense violet]

show what you're tryign to do in #math-and-meta

[white dawn]

You could certainly finish the game with just 4/min total if you wanted to, though

[vestal crown]

Not on Pc rn, cant screenshot

[lucid pagoda]

ill prolly go 4 per min cus those numbers arent too bad, and thats triple digits per hour

[vestal crown]

But basically, place foundations under the rails

[stray loom]

Yeah. You'll spend long enough planning how to build the nuclear stuff that it will pile up nicely

[dense violet]

then the video I linked

is specifically for putting foundations under already made rail

[vestal crown]

Yeah, Ill try that when I get out of work

[humble osprey]

wtf. i cant throw my power slug in the trash

[white dawn]

Gotta grind 'em up for that sweet sweet slug juice

[spiral summit]

my dumbass tractor autopilot just drove itself off its path and the road and crashed into a factory

||job||

[leaden turret]

this feels so copy-paste as to feel like an obvious scam

[shy mulch]

people pay for exams?

[leaden turret]

yeah, the IELTS has stupid-high fees

[humble osprey]

what was ur exam on

[carmine wolf]

hey guys how long does it take to craft 100 ||nuclear pasta||?

[humble osprey]

whag r u majoring bruh

[shy mulch]

depends how many particle accelerators you have

[humble osprey]

for me, 20 mins

[south sinew]

but quite a while

[shy mulch]

it said english in the question 😛

[carmine wolf]

i only got 1 lol cause i am lazy to make more

[humble osprey]

i make 5 pasta per min

[shy mulch]

surely it tells you how many you can make per minute then, it's quite simple calculation to see how long 100 would take

[peak wasp]

Do you think I need to automate smart plating, versatile framework and automated wiring? Are they needed after the phase 2 to produce other items that will be unlocked in the next stages/phases?

[carmine wolf]

i am bad at math lol that is why i wanna make sure i am not mathing wrong

[south sinew]

Yes.

[shy mulch]

if you really want to plan ahead and don't mind spoilers, look on the wiki to see what each thing is used in

[peak wasp]

If I can continue without automating them it will be good, because otherwise it's like I have to double most of my current production.

[north cobalt]

whats your current production?

[hasty cradle]

You should keep automating every space elevator part

Even if your not using them they give alot of points for tickets

[north cobalt]

just use quickwire

[peak wasp]

30 motors, 60 rotor and 60 stators are used for them, so if I automate automated wiring I'll have to increase stator production, and that requires to double my copper wire (I currently produce 960/m) and steel as well because of steel pipes

[north cobalt]

got me like 40 tickets with a single smelter (no boost)

[hasty cradle]

In early game you mean

[south sinew]

You don't need very many per minute. Like, 5 per minute is usually fine, or even less.

[shy mulch]

if points is your end goal, then there's only one that matters, and a couple that are used in the production of that one

[hasty cradle]

Late game you need alot of points

For Just a couple of tickets

[north cobalt]

yeah but, you kinda need a factory to get to late game

i think that putting the tickets before factory expansions is putting the cart before the horse

[south sinew]

there are not many items that cost tickets that you actually need

[hasty cradle]

You need em to 100% the game tho

[north cobalt]

his question was if he could reuse his lines of production (if i understood that correctly) and quickwire is just a easier alternative to smart plating

[shy mulch]

you don't NEED any of them

[north cobalt]

to get like ladders/wall with holes and so on

[south sinew]

sure, but some are genuinely useful, like ladders, or wall power plugs, but most of them don't serve any actual use

[hasty cradle]

Well you still need early space elevator parts

For later game

[north cobalt]

i was just saying that making them for tickets didnt feel right

[shy mulch]

all of the things you spend tokens for are either cosmetic or time saving, there is nothing in the awesome shop that is strictly necessary to finish the game

if you're at the endgame and haven't done any or at least very few coupons, then there are some items you can buy from the awesome shop and immediately put back into the sink and get more back than you spent. seems worth it initially but in long term that will never be worth it, because each coupon costs more points than the last, so you're making it harder for yourself if you do that

[versed plinth]

@wind sequoia #screenshots message please bro 😭 there are ways to make it straight

[atomic canyon]

so, i have an idea but i can't decide in which way i should make it: basically i wanna make a city in dunes, where each skyscraper will ba placed on its own ore node, and will produce only 1 product, which then will be delivered via trucks to storage. but i can't decide, should i put any work in interior or not

[wind sequoia]

waves :)

[versed plinth]

HEATHEN. BURN THEM AT THE STAKE

[wind sequoia]

how tho

[versed plinth]

beams

if you make a bp using a ramp, place a beam on it, then you can put the wall supports on it.

one sec lemme make a demonstration

[shy mulch]

that makes sense, might try that, all my pipes look like that screenshot 😄

[versed plinth]

#screenshots message something like this

[wind sequoia]

well off to rebuild that ramp

[versed plinth]

lol

[humble osprey]

does anyone unironically use arachnophobia mod?

becuz i do

[versed plinth]

i have grown numb to the spiders.

the little ones still jumpscare me in caves tho

all i hear is their pitter pattering steps...

sometimes they are in the walls as well...

[hoary rose]

i hate the big ones the big ones always scare me

[versed plinth]

(literally, ive had them clip into the floor and then run around in the walls)

[fiery pewter]

So I have made sum plans for a couple of production lines, but have run in a bit of an issue. In short:
I need 3600 Limestone per minute
I am overclocking 5 miner mk2's for to reach the desired 3600, so each of those miners produce 360 per minute. Here's the problem, I don't have mk4 belts. So I gotta unlock logistics mk4, but each and every part of my steel production lines needs that limestone (the molded recipes and such) I do in fact need the limestone to make the limestone

[versed plinth]

also it can help to use walls to get the spacing correct. important notes: it MUST be a wall pipe on the beam, and it MUST be on the top of the beam (for some reason) if you want it to be clean.

[hoary rose]

anyone have some cool colors that that use for there builds?

[fiery pewter]

You wouldn't believe me, but I really like yellow and black

[versed plinth]

this game hates me

it keeps giving me HMFs at crash sites instead of computers 😭

[fiery pewter]

But white and black looks more sleek and modern looking

[hoary rose]

good to know

[fiery pewter]

Is that loot random?

[versed plinth]

idk i just kinda assumed it was

might not be tbh

[drowsy mulch]

No, it's predetermined iirc

[versed plinth]

ah

[drowsy mulch]

Speed runners use it

[atomic canyon]

you can try to connect them with mk3 belts, and then upgrade later, when you got resources for it, i guess

[drowsy mulch]

I think the wiki has a list of crash sites with computers, etc

[fiery pewter]

Also possible is color coding, so wire constructos are orange

[drowsy mulch]

The orange stone mountain and the swamp have, unfortunately, been where I've had the most luck

[versed plinth]

orange stone mountain?

[fiery pewter]

Yeah that will be the temporary solution, and then maybe map markers or brightly coloured belts to know that I need to upgrade them

[atomic canyon]

yeah, why not

[fiery pewter]

Dune desert iirc

[versed plinth]

ah ok ill check there

[drowsy mulch]

Yeah no the actual name but that area by the dune desert that's more rock than dune

[fiery pewter]

The left side of the dune desert then

If looked at from the map

[drowsy mulch]

Yep

Thanks

[fiery pewter]

Littered with Alpha/Elite enemies though, so make sure to be prepared.
I like stun rebars and Xeno Basher

[frozen ingot]

stun rebar is def undervalued i think

[fiery pewter]

Yeah

Reload sucks, but with the right timing you don't have to reload

[frozen ingot]

yeah i never think about the reload, and you can always kite and run around/jetpack/galavant 😄

just like a cheap easy way to get in a lot of damage

[fiery pewter]

Never forget the humble blade runners

Jump over 'em

[frozen ingot]

goes without saying!

[fiery pewter]

the Elite Stinger jumping too

[atomic canyon]

damn i really can't decide, i have an urge to fill those buildings with cool interior, but on the other hand it would cost me, well, a lot of time and sanity

[plucky seal]

I usually stun then throw nobelisks lol

[fiery pewter]

Well you could use the machines as interior, and use empty spots for power lines and item elevators

[alpine salmon]

pre-blade runner me: Hold Shift to Run and then hold C, then jump, and when I hit the ground for a split second, jump again to gain immense speed. (I reached the 140 km/h achievement)

[fiery pewter]

Oh yeah

That's really fast

Launch mode included with fast belts

[fiery pewter]

not me being TOLD to include a nobelisk line in the plans by my friend because he likes them lol

[alpine salmon]

bro my job SUCKS

8 hour weeks minimum wage

[fiery pewter]

What may thy job be?

[plucky seal]

Yeah I got a few lines that just produce nothing but ammo

[alpine salmon]

tjmaxx / homegoods associate

[fiery pewter]

Hum

[fiery pewter]

Same

[alpine salmon]

glorified stocker and helper

I worked last wednesday, and I work today

A whole week without work

Some people may be like hell yeah

[fiery pewter]

Good luck to you then

[alpine salmon]

but not if your rent is 800$ a month

anyhow

[fiery pewter]

Oh man that sucks

[alpine salmon]

more satisfactory

I love suffering my sleep hours

[fiery pewter]

Lmao

[alpine salmon]

just for this game

[drifting knot]

how do you prepare a new Satisfactory world.

[alpine salmon]

1. you make new world
2. suffer

[drifting knot]

like preparing it

[fiery pewter]

Depends, do you want to be efficient or fool around?

[drifting knot]

efficient

[fluid sapphire]

"prepare"?

[fiery pewter]

Do you use satisfactory modeler?

[alpine salmon]

my first playthrough with satisfactory was with a friend :D

[fiery pewter]

Nice

[drifting knot]

that software confuses me

[alpine salmon]

just reached oil power

[fiery pewter]

Well it helps

[alpine salmon]

I like to research everything BEFORE I do a new phase

[drifting knot]

ill try harder then.

[fiery pewter]

I have 3 unfinished saves with the same friend, all stopped at oil power

[alpine salmon]

XD

[fluid sapphire]

there are others, like satisfactorytools

[alpine salmon]

though me and my friend are planning to make a new save since we learned how to actually do it

[drifting knot]

my current world is 0 percent efficient and I'm at coal

[alpine salmon]

also my friend REALLY wanted to do a lets game it out factory system

I guided him away from that.

[fiery pewter]

Good one

[alpine salmon]

Now he is actually understanding the pain of them still being semi okay

[plucky seal]

Yeah I was going to at first, but I have nowhere near enough time to make that

[atomic canyon]

yeah, maybe something like that, i've actually tried to implement machines into decor itself, but it takes a lot of time

[alpine salmon]

like even I knew how painful lets game it outs system was before playing satisfactory (LGIO brought me into satisfactory)

[ashen belfry]

My factories usually end up as an ugly platform

[alpine salmon]

My PC is being bottlenecked 😭

[ashen belfry]

That as well.
Gaming on a laptop is hard

[alpine salmon]

Not in terms of power

I can run the game completely fine

But my monitors are 1080p 75Hz, while my PC is a i9-14900KF and a RX 7900 XTX

literal definition of not having money for new monitors

[fiery pewter]

Do you watch ImKibitz?
-# not pinging him, man works hard enough
I really like his blueprints where he combines decorational stuff with machines

[atomic canyon]

yeah, i was actually inspired by him and also xcited when i was making an interior for smeltery floor

[fiery pewter]

Nice

[alpine salmon]

Might have a 4k main monitor and 1440p 2 monitors

[ashen belfry]

Kinda fine though.
Playing on 1080p 240Hz but not reaching that anywhere closely

[alpine salmon]

All I want is better resolution so :D

I cap my Hz at 144

[atomic canyon]

#design-and-architecture message
here it is (i really hope that link pasted properly, lol)

[alpine salmon]

any more than that is just useless

[fiery pewter]

That looks REALLY good, well done!

Wdym you have difficulty designing, you're doing way better than I ever could

[atomic canyon]

btw it's not vanilla, well, mostly vanilla, but i used infinte nudge to micro manage, well, nudging

[fiery pewter]

Do you know that infinite nudge is also included in 1.1?

[ashen belfry]

I want better fps. Solid 60 would be a nice staz

Start

[alpine salmon]

whats your pc

[atomic canyon]

yeah, but that floor took me like 3-4 hours to design, and i kinda dont want to spend 10k+ hours in the game

[atomic canyon]

thx❤️

[fiery pewter]

Yeah fair enough

[fiery pewter]

Anytime

[atomic canyon]

well yeah, but mod also allows you to rotate any building in every axis and also nudge by wery tiny amounts

[ashen belfry]

It's a laptop

[fiery pewter]

That is better yeah

[alpine salmon]

L

Should have hwinfo though for specs

[ashen belfry]

13900 hx
4080 12gb
32gb ram

[atomic canyon]

also i have many progects planned in my head, so i need to wrap that up kinda quicky

[alpine salmon]

doesnt look that bad

[fluid sapphire]

that should very easily get 60fps

[alpine salmon]

^

[atomic canyon]

basically i was heavily inspired by GameLab, and also want to make something like that

and also inspired by some renders i found in pinterest, searching for sci-fi bulids

[alpine salmon]

yea you should easily have 60 fps with that laptop

[subtle swan]

newbie here quick question. do stacked splitters transfer items from level one to level 3 for exaple?

[atomic canyon]

sadly, no

[ashen belfry]

It did it. At the beginning of phase 2.
Without a lot of machines.
But then later on with a 750GW power plant not so much.
I was able to get more power into the CPU, however I felt like sitting next to an airport.
My laptop did the startup sequence and I heard a "Ready for Takeoff"

[atomic canyon]

if by stacked you mean placing them on top of another

[subtle swan]

oki, np. i managed to squeeze in a elevator. thanks!

[verbal yoke]

is there a single superposition oscilator on the map? or can you only open all crash sites post-tier 9 (or ig with ficsmas rewards)

[green fiber]

only ficsmas has them

otherwise - tier 9 it is

[verbal yoke]

ah, ty guess I'll have to wait for the end of the game for the very last one

[fluid sapphire]

well i guess there is no helping that really, thats just the curse of gaming on a laptop

[atomic canyon]

even doggo cant give them to you?

[green fiber]

it seems not

[feral venture]

the alternative recipe iron ingots with water and iron, when is this unlackable? T3 pahse right?

[white dawn]

Note that there are more drives than you can actually use, btw. If you want all alt recipes, you don't need all hard drives

[cedar portal]

I have a looped 250% Ionized Fuel refinery that only wants to run at about 66%. Every time it cycles it goes into idle before starting again. I think the output buffer is geettign blocked? Even though it fully empties every time. It goes to idle the INSTANT a cycle finishes. Which is weird as I have an encoder that outputs 590m3/min and this is only doing 200.

[white dawn]

(I understand the desire to clear the map, of course)

[verbal yoke]

yeah ik, especially as I'm only in phase 2, I've got more than 50 hard drives to spare and (I think) I've got all but 2 unlocks from hard drives that are available now.

[versed plinth]

is coated iron plate worth the added complexity?

[white dawn]

I don't actually know what the "stack size" is of the ouptut buffer, but I assume that the 100 (oops, I mean 32) Ionized Fuel you're producing is enough that the next cycle does not yet have room to fully output, which is why it's stopping

It might be literally impossible to overclock that far, without the machine going idle

[atomic canyon]

i unlocked it before access to refineries, i remember correctly

[cedar portal]

It's outputting 32m3 per cycle. I guess thats simply bigger than it's internal buffer which is a pity. or a bug... machines SHOULD be able to run a full cycle.

[green fiber]

standard buffer size is 50

[verbal yoke]

depends on the circumstance, but depending on what factory you're making it can be useful, yes. Just very situational, like I'd never recommend going out of your way to do it, but in a factory where you're already making plastic and plates, why not?

[spice patio]

50m^3 buffers.
So max of 25m^3 per cycle works constantly.

[cedar portal]

Hmm, then that 32 shouldn't be stopping it.

[green fiber]

yes it should

[spice patio]

Needs to have room for full cycle for cycle to start.

[green fiber]

because it cant add another 32 to that

[cedar portal]

Oh, so double... got it... well that's frustrating. I guesss I'm gonna need a bigger buffer 😐

[versed plinth]

yeah thats about what i was thinking. makes sense

[green fiber]

machines only produce if they have space for the output

[white dawn]

Any buffer you build doesn't matter; it's the internal machine buffer that matters, and you can't change that (outside of mods, anyway)

[cedar portal]

Right, was making a Jaws joke. A bad one 😄

[white dawn]

oh, lol

[white dawn]

As always with that kind of question, "worth it" is entirely up to you

[cedar portal]

@white dawn @spice patio Ok... so thats a really weird mechanic. If I put a sommerloop in a refinery and it makes a cycle go over 25m3, it will be unable to run continiously, even if underclocked. You basicly can't loop them. I'm going to call that a bug.

[elder apex]

you can get a bigger internal machine buffer specifically to address this problem with mods -> https://ficsit.app/mod/LargeFluidOutputBuffers

[cedar portal]

I mean I can loop them but instead of 200% output I only get, hmm, 120%.

[white dawn]

There's various recipes you can't fully overclock/sloop. You can certainly call it a bug if you like, but IMO it's just, y'know, A Thing™

[cedar portal]

I try and avoid mods if I can. But will keep that one in mind, thanks

[white dawn]

You can always just do it in two machines instead of one, which has the added benefit of saving yourself some power

[cedar portal]

I'm going to call it a bug if a machine breaks simply because of the settings the game fully allowws you to use.

[elder apex]

that costs him twice the sloops though

[cedar portal]

Yeah, I just wanted in this case to boost production to fill a buffer down the line but guess I'll just have to wait

[white dawn]

The game also allows you to send fresh + recycled fluids into the same water system, but I'd call that User Error, not Game Error. :D

[cedar portal]

Yeah but thats different... it would be like if half the recipies in the game stopped working at various overclock values and nothing about it was documented and you just had to KNOW that compact coal dies sif you set it higher than 178%

[white dawn]

You can certainly submit it to the Questions site if you like, though. The only real solution would be to change the internal buffer sizes, though, which is an awfully big change for something easily bypassable

[white dawn]

Well, as I say, consider it a bug if you like (and certainly leave feedback @ the Questions site if you're so inclined). IMO it's just learning to work within the game's ruleset, though

It's just a limitation you've got to know how to work with, is all.

[cedar portal]

Rules which are not documented anywhere. I think bug because it only happens when you loop SOME machines and SOME recipies, so when they added loops they didn't account for buffer sizes. It's not a huge deal but there is no way I belive they specificily designed some machines with some recipies to stall when looped.

What they SHOULD have done is when you put a loop in, it doubles the output buffer too 😄

[white dawn]

Still doesn't mean it's a bug, though

[cedar portal]

Either a bug or a bad design choice

[white dawn]

I don't think either of us are going to convince the other, though. :)

Heh, I'm also not one to mind running into limitations in the game

[cedar portal]

Nah but it's fun to try!

[white dawn]

Just because I can't do Literally Anything doesn't mean it's bad design; it's just fundamental things to work around

We've all encountered full output buffers in the past; it's a base mechanic in the game

But anyway, probably not worth me blathering about it. :D

I was always of the opinion that not being able to fully overclock mk3 miners wasn't a bug, too

I don't mind mk6 belts (and in fact I'm fond of mk6 belts), but having a fundamental "you just can't usefully fully-OC a mk3 miner" limit never bothered me.

[cedar portal]

So for the Refinery, any recipie that outputs equal to or more than 12.5m3 in a cycle will break when sommerlooped.

Ok... so Ionized Fuel is the ONLY recipe that breaks.

[white dawn]

If you counter me with "but would you care if the output buffer were bigger?" I'd have to agree with you on that one, though. :)

[cedar portal]

I suspect they simply missed this one until it was too late to make changes to buffer sizes which, as you mentioned, is a pretty major and risky thing to mess with without a lot of testing.

[versed plinth]

anyone know how many entrances are required to fly cleanly across the map?

just a rough ball park

[white dawn]

Though I suppose I actually do legit enjoy having the smaller buffer size; I've had setups where it's pretty vital that the output buffer clears out ASAP so that the machine doesn't stall, and I kind of like having that tension. Though of course in a properly-set-up chain it should always auto-balance anyway

[white dawn]

15ish should do, I think

[cedar portal]

Yes, I agree thats an integeral part of the game. Hmm, they COULD just change it from outputting 16 to 12 and slightly reduce the cycle time to give teh same fuel/min and that would fix it.

[white dawn]

Your idea of doubling the output buffer when somersloops are present is kind of appealing too, though you'd have to account for potential behavior when a buffer's full and you remove the sloops

[verbal yoke]

wait is the final hard drive recipe never attainable?
I had my final ones for tier 6 as charcoal and biocoal, and after getting biocoal, I'm unable to scan for charcoal (not that I particularly want charcoal but still, what does this mean for the final, final one)

[cedar portal]

From a pure programming standpoint, simply adjusting the production amount and cycle is far, far less risky and shouldn't break anything.

[white dawn]

Though I expect the percentage of users making Ionized Fuel in any kind of bulk capacity is awfully low, so probably not worth the QA lift. :D

[crimson shard]

can some one give me a hand?

[white dawn]

There's a bug where you may have to restart the game session to run the last scan

A save/reload should clean that up for you

[crimson shard]

block signals and path signals how do these ungodly things work

[cedar portal]

But it's the best drone fuel. Yes nuclear is faster but I like to afk and don't like the idea of every drone setup being highly radioactive and dangerous to stand next to for long

[verbal yoke]

ty

[cedar portal]

Start with block signals, they are simple. They just seperate the tracks into blocks, and the one rule is a train won't enter a block if another train is in it.

[crimson shard]

o.o

[white dawn]

True, true. I tend to be happy enough just sticking with rocketfuel/batteries, but indeed. I'm used to only really using Ionized for the jetpack + shard sinking

[white dawn]

Signals break your tracks up into individual "blocks." Only one train is allowed inside a block at any time. When placing block signals, you'll see coloration on the rails to let you know where the blocks are.

If you place signals anywhere in your train network, you need to use them everywhere. Make sure that any intersections are one big block, and then have blocks every 200-300m or so on straightaways

And put a signal at the very entrance and exit to your stations, so that trains inside the station are sitting in their own little block

[crimson shard]

I don't get it ;-;

[cedar portal]

@crimson shard You want to place block signals at regular interverals along long tracks. Beecausee if you have say, a track that runs all the way across sthe map, only one train can use it with no signals, causing bottlenecks.

[white dawn]

As Ion Nizer said, for now just stick with block signals and ignore path signals completely. Path Signals can help optimize busy intersections, but are never actually required

[crimson shard]

I have 1 track running along the track

map*

[white dawn]

If you only have a single train, btw, you won't need signals at all

Signals are for when you've got more than one train on the same bits of track, so that they don't run into each other

[crimson shard]

but on one end it has 2 exits and on the other only one and one stop in the middle

I wanted a train to run along the middle to on exit and the other to go from exit to exit

[white dawn]

It might be best to open a #1038092680493801533 thread so that folks can inline screenshots and such

[crimson shard]

oh thanks

[unkempt blade]

however, the most important thing to know about trains is you can change their color

signals are all well and good but not if you have to stare at a default colored train

[cedar portal]

The MOST important thing to know is you can honk the horn while riding it!

[lean nexus]

I started setting up blocking and path signals on my train loop. I started them on my Roundabout I have, but there are long stretches with nothing, and from what I am understanding is that if there is a train in that long strech, a train can't enter it until a train inside of it leaves. I also have to T junctions I need to figure out, because I set them up in a similar way and I have a train sitting in the middle of the T junction

[versed plinth]

#screenshots message @verbal yoke you can just not pick a hard drive and it will effectively remove the alternate from the pool, putting it in the hard drive library. This way, you get better alternate choices in the future

[lean nexus]

TLDR I am trying to get 2 trains to run in the same section of long straight without them not being able to enter it because one train is already inside of it

[cedar portal]

You need block ssignals to break up the long straight into sections

[lean nexus]

So just place them every so often?

[cedar portal]

Exactly

[lean nexus]

Thanks, much appreciated

[cedar portal]

How far apart is... up to you? The more you add the more trains you can cram into a line but the more work it is to place them all. You get a fee for it eventually.

[lean nexus]

I have about 1/2 of the world train loop built and started building outpost factories for Space Elevator Parts. I am at where I have to do phase 3 and got my Versitile framework done.

Also sinking excess SE parts for them tickets

[unkempt blade]

1. Paint the train cars rainbow color
2. Set up blocks that are around the size of the train
3. Automate the schedule for the train
4. Sit inside and honk the horn

[lean nexus]

I love getting that alternate train horn sound

[lime ermine]

What alternate sound?

[lean nexus]

|| Train Whistle ||

[lime ermine]

How do I get it

[lean nexus]

I got an ~18/min Versitile Framework set up and am already 900 away. I gotta chiro appointment so Imma let it run

[lean nexus]

It will just happen randomly

[lime ermine]

Oh ok

[lean nexus]

im not sure if it has conditions to get it to happen, but I sometimes here it when I spam the horn

[versed plinth]

fun fact

i almost just crippled my entire power grid with a fully overclocked, somerslooped manufacturer. it takes 750 MW 😵‍💫

[lean nexus]

I use the somersloop for doing alien protien stuff for tickets and power shards

the power shard one is goated

I built my whole computer factory with overclocks rather than underclocks 🤡

[versed plinth]

same. im also using it on computers cus im poor

only for some temporary hand fed automation

[lean nexus]

I built a 30 Computer/min over in the swamp

[hard ivy]

no, not 🤡 .
if you have the shards, there's very little reason not to OC everything
it's only 34% more power

[mortal ginkgo]

hold up, I was going to sloop some 😭

750MW is too much!

[lean nexus]

My buddy also came in my world and build a huge fuel generator and I have 14+ GW pre phase 3 completed so power doesnt matter lmao

[white dawn]

Yeah, shards are practically unlimited even before Tier 9, and we tend to recommend overbuilding on power anyway. Overclocking wherever you like is fine. :)

[versed plinth]

without OC its "only" 220

[mortal ginkgo]

Bro I thought it would be like 250 if slooped and OCed

[lean nexus]

The lake in the east is so good for the fuel power, im gonna eventually do the packaged fuel thing so it makes more, but I am too lazy atm cause I have a lot to do to get phase 3 done

[versed plinth]

sloop has a significantly harsher power penalty i believe

[white dawn]

Yeah, sloops are 4x power

[mortal ginkgo]

holy damn

[white dawn]

(if fully-slooped)

[hard ivy]

4x for max sloops, and ~3.35x for 250% OC

[lean nexus]

My Production is 14,400 MW
My max Cons. is 11,271.1 MW
My Actual Cons. is ~2,600 MW
💀💀💀

[white dawn]

Now fully OC and sloop some Particle Accelerators or Quantum Encoders! :D

[mortal ginkgo]

yeah I aint finding 26GW for EACH brotherman

[cedar portal]

I have an encoder that hits a max 27gw of power.

[hard ivy]

750 MW is 3 fuel gens.
Max OC and max sloops Encoder is over 10 nuke plants 🙃

[unkempt blade]

I like to OC all my power generators because there's no real downside besides using the shards

OCing production stuff is great once you've overbuilt power but until then...

[white dawn]

Yeah, fuel gens in particular are a super common shard target

[hard ivy]

I mean if you do constant production, not constant # of machines, max OC is only 34% more power

[unkempt blade]

which isn't the end of the world once you have lots of excess power

[green fiber]

on the other hand, if you add somersloops that turns into 537% more power (relative to machine count) which is quite funny

[versed plinth]

is there a train section of this discord

i need help signaling an intersection

[white dawn]

The discord as a whole is probably about 80% trains+pipes. :D

[green fiber]

nah, make a #1038092680493801533 if you need specific help

[white dawn]

(but yeah, a thread where McGalleon said tends to be the best place for it, since you can inline images there)

[hard ivy]

it's only +168% more power per item

[green fiber]

depends on the recipe though

[hard ivy]

I'm talking only about the one machine

[green fiber]

yes, but which recipe tho

[hard ivy]

it doesn't matter?

[green fiber]

yeah i just realized encoder only makes 1 each time

wait how did you arrive at 168% then

[unkempt blade]

only is doing a lot of heavy lifting here 😆

[hard ivy]

2.5^log2(2.5) * 4 / 5 = ~2.6862

[green fiber]

i dont get the 4/5 factor

[hard ivy]

*4 from sloops

/5 because machine max oc max sloops outputs items 5x faster than a machine at 100% and no sloops

[green fiber]

meh, now i get it.
just kept calculating it wrong

i dont get the use for that metric though

[hard ivy]

with sloops involved, it's kinda useless (because you can half all the previous production)

without, it absolutely makes sense

[gritty sleet]

It'd be nice if single powerlines could be connected to the tops of the power towers, to make zipline transitions from power tower long distances onto something like ceiling mounted power sockets.

[green fiber]

cant because the cable type for power towers specifically turns it into "2" cables.
idk, weird code nonsense

[gritty sleet]

Yeah, that's what I mean, like if there was a way to do what's not currently permitted

[green fiber]

if you want a transition, just CTRL place a power tower up near there

er power POLE

not a tower xd

[gritty sleet]

Like just have it not connected, but nearby, and the zipline will just hop automatically?

[green fiber]

basically

[stray loom]

Use a beam to hide a wall power connector in the power tower connector

[green fiber]

if you can get a ceiling / foundation right near the top of the power tower, you could probably use ceiling power connectors too, right?

[gritty sleet]

That's a great idea, definitely trying that next time I play.

[green fiber]

or place the wall connector on beams

since that works too

[last tartan]

does anyone else struggle to get pipelines right? 😫

my last coal plant in the line of them doesnt function now

[unkempt blade]

Not really but when I was in college I got bitten by a radioactive plumber so now I have super pipe perception and always connect them right the first time

it's a curse really

[last tartan]

super pipe perception, i love it

[last tartan]

failure is fun because you get to fix failure and learn for next time, so it is a curse

[plucky plank]

why is one pipe transporting water properly then the next attached after has little to no water travelling through (i have removed and replaced them)

[unkempt blade]

If you're not already the things that usually help me are feeding it water from both sides or making a loop from the start to the end

liquids "slosh" in this game and a loop usually takes care of it

[last tartan]

would feeding into from both sides work?

i thought that would mess up the current or whatever and stop flow entirely

[unkempt blade]

yeah it should, you just want the total feed to be at least the consumption

[last tartan]

yeah i realized my mistake

[plucky plank]

@unkempt blade can i send you a recording of this in dms this is really annoying

[last tartan]

my plant's intake alltotal is 360 and im outputting 240

[unkempt blade]

yeah that's fine

[versed plinth]

hey, anyone know if theres an easier way to place signals? im struggling to get them on the correct side of the rail

[ripe elm]

is there a good way to play the game

[unkempt blade]

I thought I saw something about that for 1.1 but I don't really think so for 1.0. You just want to keep your cursor towards the side of the track a little

[versed plinth]

wait

[unkempt blade]

only bad ways, but they're all fun

[versed plinth]

am i not on 1.1???

[unkempt blade]

oh I guess it is 1.1 now 😆

[versed plinth]

;-;

[stray loom]

Mousewheel while aimed at the track will let you swap sides

[versed plinth]

not if its not a joint apparently

yeah its just not working

lemme see if we got a mod for this...

[hard ivy]

place the signal wrong, it'll split the rail, then remove it and place the signal right

[versed plinth]

i suppose that works

is there any way to see the train routes without being in the train

or at all as a matter of fact

[frail sleet]

Machines start fairly high up on the clock curve, you can only double clock once and a bit. You can half it 6 and a bit times.

Machines at 250% consume double the power per-part of those at ~25%.

Not usually significant and practically actionable, but when Encoders and Particle Accelerators enter the game you can quite easily and massively reduce your power consumption by building them wider at lower clocks - especially if the alternative is overclocking.

[gloomy oriole]

Anyone use controller and has a clue how to control when it does a half-step nudge vs a full nudge?

[versed plinth]

ok who is andre aquila and how does he have so many mods

[humble osprey]

Scroll wheel

[humble osprey]

Half step nudge??? What

[hard ivy]

Someone once made a weird metric something like "power saved per extra machine required" and the sweet spot was at 37% clock speed or something like that?

[ruby mountain]

on keyboard its crtl+direction

[gloomy oriole]

If you don't know you don't use a controller I guess? When I'm trying to nudge things with my controller sometimes they go the full tick, and sometimes they only move half-way.

[frail sleet]

Every machine helps less than the one before it.

[humble osprey]

Really?

Anyways where and how do you use buffers for maximum effectiveness?

[frail sleet]

@hard ivy Also, the full spread of power requirements (although the lower end of this is not practically accessible) goes up to 591% of the efficiency of a maximally overclocked machine.

[ripe elm]

how do i like strat i big rail network

[lean ferry]

guys is pure aluminium ingot good?

[left totem]

iirc its handful

[lean ferry]

I know I could make ALOT more casings (without quartz)

[white dawn]

I just let my rail network expand organically. First I need A->B, so I build that. Then I need C->D, so I make that, and probably connect it up to the other, however makes sense. Then I find I need A->E so it's just a little expansion, etc

[humble osprey]

With sloppy alumina yes

[lean ferry]

dont have sloppy alumina

[white dawn]

Needs no silica, at the cost of being less bauxite-efficient. Whether it's "good" or not depends on what your goals are

[lean ferry]

I mean

[humble osprey]

Try to get it, but yes even without sloppy aluminia, pure aluminium ingots is great

[white dawn]

Alt recipes in general are not "good" or "bad." They're all at least situationally useful.

[lean ferry]

in my opinion its op cuz it cuts off quartz completely, I can sink spare silica and only coal and bauxite

[white dawn]

If you want the most aluminum out of your given quantity of bauxite, it'd be bad, but if you don't want to use quartz, then maybe it'd be good.

[lean ferry]

and tbf it could help me make casings/ ingots for fused frames, and containers much easier

[cedar portal]

Has somethign changed with block signals in 1.0 or 1.1? I am having a heck of a time getting them to point in the direction I want... it seems to think each track has a direction and i can't figure out how to change it. i can place it on either sside with R but thats just visual... it won't met me turn it around in a lot of cases.

[white dawn]

All down to what you want for that particular factory

(And maybe you'd use it in this aluminum factory but not the next, based on nearby node availability, etc)

[versed plinth]

should i have block signals on every rail bp i place?

[humble osprey]

Bp?

[versed plinth]

blueprint

[humble osprey]

Hmmm. How many trains r gonna be on the system, does it have a 2 way system?

[versed plinth]

yes its 2 way

[humble osprey]

How long is the system?

[versed plinth]

and uhhh idk yet

[humble osprey]

Really depends a lot of stuff

Is there a way to push a fluid upwards without increasing the work pressure?

I really don't understand work pressure much

[slate spire]

does anyone have a compact foundry blueprint i'm looking for a good looking blueprint for my main base but cant seem to find a nice looking one online only the basic ones

[white dawn]

Why not make your own?

[gentle nebula]

Hello, could someone help me?
i got the problem that from the recent update. the loading times takes a really long time.
in single player it is short like always. however to connect with a dedecated server it takes a long time to load.
i can hear the noices in the background like my Xeno-basher. however the screen is still on the loading screen.
also i have already redownloaded the game from steam.
Anything i can try to do to fix this?

[slate spire]

i tried but eveyting i come up with looks crap

[humble osprey]

Just hide it away

[white dawn]

The only way to get better is to practice. :)

[silent copper]

anyone else having the conveyor straight problem??

where its not straight

[slate spire]

i cant its for a bigh project and i want it in a separate part of the bace all foundries together

also tried to make it look good aswell as keeping it compact but still looks like crap

[humble osprey]

Show?

[slate spire]

just deleted it all for like the 20th time today

[steady glade]

sometimes i do, use default mode

[white dawn]

I mean, in the end, what you want out of your blueprints is up to you. You're said you're unhappy with your own, but also unhappy with all the ones you've found online.

So it sounds like you just need to practice + iterate until you come up with something that you do enjoy. :)

[prime jasper]

I build a plastic/rubber factory and now that I can have a fuel station I wonder if I want to turn my plastic factory into a power plant that accessorily produce plastic/rubber, or keeping my plastic robber factory but make it accessorily produce energy.

[silent copper]

yeah i just change mode

[white dawn]

Or alternatively accept that it might not be perfect for now, and keep evolving it over time

[silent copper]

anyone know what to produce after fused mods?

should i go for straight turbo motors or

[white dawn]

1. Pick resource you have not yet automated
2. Automate it!
3. FICSIT

[twilit escarp]

Hey guys, how do i take a specific ammount of item from dimensional depot? i am only able to take a hole stack

[silent copper]

AHHHHH

[gloomy oriole]

Ahah! Think I figured it out! To ''half-nudge" on controller you first have to vertical nudge to kick the object out of the standard grid. Which of course, only works sometimes still...

[slate spire]

i need an aesthetic good looking build but cant seem to work somthing out that looks fine i found one in a video online but there are no close ups so i cant build it

[steady glade]

automate everything for mk3 miners

[white dawn]

The only way is to have an existing partial stack in your inventory already. If you drag a Depot stack on top of that, it will only take out the difference

[white dawn]

I mean, again: you seem to be as displeased with publicly-available blueprints as you are with your own. Why not just keep iterating on your own stuff? Then you'll get the satisfaction of having solved the problem down the line, once you're pleased with your own results.

Nobody here has some secret trove of "the best blueprints" or whatever; if what you're looking for isn't on the public blueprint sites, it might just not exist.

[mystic urchin]

There is no difference in speed between fuel types in ground vehicles, correct?

[twilit escarp]

rip, i was thinking for stuff like coupons, i take only as much as i need

[white dawn]

The fuel types don't change vehicle speed or anything, no. The only real difference is burn time, so they'll last for longer or shorter, depending.

[mystic urchin]

Fuel doesn't feel any faster than biofuel despite being better in a jetpack

[frail sleet]

I have trouble imagining how to make this work, mostly due to throughput concerns. I mostly use a train when i need 5000 of something moved from B to C.

That means that the line from B to C is clogged up with back to back trains, so anything going A to E can't get through - or worse, it can, but makes my machines/powergrid at C stutter because their trains were delayed.

You can fix this with path signals and enough parallel train lines - even expand it - but it seems like a very difficult job for me to signal it all with PATH signals, and to predict when and where it's going to have insufficient throughput with the current tools.

[slate spire]

your right ill try again

[mystic urchin]

Right, thanks

[white dawn]

Good luck! If you do have something you're proud of, remember you can share it out too. :)

[white dawn]

If you've got a very busy train network with areas that get congested, then yeah, you may need to add some more direct routes between various areas. Personally I just deal with those as they come up, though. (And given my usual build scale, the problem rarely actually arises.)

Keep in mind that so long as you're buffering your train inputs, minor delays in round-trip times don't actually affect throughput

Like you've got a route which delivers 500/min and ordinarily takes 5 minutes Round-Trip. So every 5 minutes it drops of 2500 material at the source.

Say it encounters a one-minute delay: yes, the factory will starve for a minute or so

[stray loom]

Honestly just scroll through the satisfactory subreddit for inspiration

Plenty of cool stuff you can use to influence your designs

[white dawn]

But then on the next trip, there's 500 extra material, so it drops off 3000 instead

And if you've got buffering set up, from that point forward you're always 500 "ahead"

[frail sleet]

self correct, i getcha. I'm mostly thinking about a 1200/min belt in each cart, for example. They are.. a bit more reliant on exact load and unload times, but yeah it can still tolerate significant delay for sure. More buffers can even help more.

[white dawn]

Yeah, for sure. One caveat of what I mentioned is that it doesn't work as well if you're running real close to a car's capacity

'cause if a car can't support the extra load incurred by the delay, then you're gonna get shortchanged

[stray loom]

In that case you might want to just go to 2 carts instead

[white dawn]

So I usually like to make sure I've got at least a bit of headroom on my car capacity

[stray loom]

Or add another one if its a single item train

[frail sleet]

Yeah, but i've made a train of 36x1200 before. I literally can't make that 72 carts long because that also breaks throughput. Have to double the whole trainline in that case, and when doing that, i wouldn't connect them (as that's more complex for minimal benefit)

[white dawn]

Though, indeed, on real busy train networks you could end up with some bottlenecky spots. But I still like just dealing with that as it comes up rather than worrying about it too much ahead of time. :D But that's also partially because I rarely end up with enough train traffic in specific areas for it to be a problem that needs solving. So I'm biased. :D

[frail sleet]

I think it's a different game if you use trains for stuff like finished products

For me trying to do like: There's a bauxite node here, it's going to the swamp - that has a lot of throughput problems with trains, and they only get much worse if you're putting that on a network which already has an indeterminite traffic load on it. It's easier and faster to just belt them.

[fathom shuttle]

I’ve been sleeping on blueprint auto connecting machines

I can place down like 40 refineries in a minute and connect the power for them

This is crazy damn

[wicked nacelle]

"that has a lot of throughput problems with trains" - trains are great if you don't try to predict exact throughput. They're plenty high for stuff and when they aren't you just add another train (not more rail or even another station)

[white dawn]

Yeah, I tend to try avoiding doing bulk raw-material transfer if I can, and I'll generally build near the most throughput-requiring nodes, so that definitely plays into my biases. :D

[fathom shuttle]

For the red forest/bamboo fields I’m pretty sure the nodes are all within 500-750m

[wicked nacelle]

it's very infrequenty you need more than 1500/m of a type and if you do, just add another freight station and boom you get another 1500

[fathom shuttle]

The farthest are 2 pure nodes close to the rocky desert but that’s a short trip by train

[frail sleet]

they're spread over several kilometers (bauxite)

[frail sleet]

Yeah it is. Sadly for me, when 1.1 got released i placed about a thousand machines using it. There was a bug that broke all of those belts upon saving and reloading the game, which i did not hear about and could not be fixed retroactively 🙈

[white dawn]

I suppose that's another difference in playstyle; for instance I've always just done "little" aluminum factories instead of one huge one

So my primary factory placement decision tends to be "near the bauxite node"

[frail sleet]

Yeah, after my fourth little aluminum factory i got a bit pissed at repeating it all every part.

[hard ivy]

with default settings, your estimation of throughput is as accurate as your estimation of round trip time

but with "depart when empty/full", throughput is constant until you hit a certain round trip time

[fathom shuttle]

Well the northern forest nodes can be placed on the rail line that connects the 2 nodes close to the rocky desert, so that’s an easy grab as well

[humble osprey]

How do you guys use fluid buffers?

[hard ivy]

never

[wicked nacelle]

never because I don't ship liquid liquids. and that's the only time you'd ever do it. I only ship packaged stuff

[white dawn]

Partially why I also like swtiching up production lines, too -- I usually have a bunch of different aluminum production lines across the save. Keeps things interesting!

[fathom shuttle]

That leaves the swamp nodes, I’ve belted them over to the oil well in the swamp and processed the aluminum there

[humble osprey]

But don't you need it to prevent slashing?

Sloshing*

[wicked nacelle]

I've never heard of it doing that and I don't have problems with that anyhow

[humble osprey]

Damn okay....

How many batteries do u guys use?

[wicked nacelle]

fluid buffers and valves - don't use

[hard ivy]

buffers can only make things worse. at best, they do absolutely nothing

[white dawn]

What works best (IMO) to deal with sloshing is "looped" manifolds a la #screenshots message Sloshing still happens -- you're not trying to get rid of that -- but the loop means that the sloshing doesn't matter

[wicked nacelle]

I have 15m of online battery and 15m of offline battery

[fathom shuttle]

I would have just went back to the time before I placed the machines and redid it with the bug fixed because I know those machines will be giving me problems for hours and hours

[fathom shuttle]

At my current consumption, assuming all production shuts down its 1:30 hours

[humble osprey]

I see. So buffers are useless?

[wicked nacelle]

fluid buffers yes except on train stations

[humble osprey]

Got it

[fathom shuttle]

I should probably build some batteries for the nuclear power plant

[white dawn]

Our usual statement is that in a best case scenario, buffers cause no problems (but also provide no benefits). In a worst-case scenario they introduce weird problems. (With, as xaxxon mentioned, the excepted necessity of using them to buffer fluid train platforms)

[frail sleet]

Yeah but i was like 40 hours deeper. Had to bite the bullet and just accept that i'l be re-belting it later.

[wicked nacelle]

I think 1.5 hours is probably enough to fix any problems you may run in to

[fathom shuttle]

If I switch it off grid then it loses access to the main battery bank and it gets stuck with no power

[wicked nacelle]

why would you do that?

[humble osprey]

Wow... So I'm just ruining my builds for no reason.

I was using them in my aluminium factory to deal with the fluctuating demand in the alumina-water loop

Is that a good place to use buffers or is it stupid?

[fathom shuttle]

Idk why but I’m doing it this way

[wicked nacelle]

we already answered this like 3 times

[fathom shuttle]

I was told to put every factory on its own separate grid

[wicked nacelle]

that doesn't do you any good unless all the inputs are on that grid as well -- and that's essentially impossible for nuclear

[humble osprey]

Alright...

[silent copper]

turbomotors haunt me in my dreams

[humble osprey]

That's a lot damn

[wicked nacelle]

if you're having a specific problem, feel free to ask about it, but asking if fluid buffers are the answer -- it's always no except train stations shipping liquids

[humble osprey]

I have two mk. 2 blueprint worth of batteries

[fathom shuttle]

If I dismantle a wall that covers the building my fps drops to 20-15

[silent copper]

finally reached 100hrs on my current 1.1 playthrough

just finished fused modular frames

[humble osprey]

Understood. Thanks for letting me know. So I guess I'll go remove buffers from every system then

[white dawn]

For the Alumina Solution / Water thing, btw, I highly recommend just looping back the water into a separate bank of machines, underclocking as necessary. For example: #math-and-meta message

[white dawn]

If those systems aren't having problems, feel free to just leave them as-is

[wicked nacelle]

but just don't start slapping them in when you do have problems in the future

[white dawn]

As I say, in a best case scenario, buffers don't cause problems, and I suspect that we tend to overstate how often they do cause problems. So if something's working fine, no need to tear stuff down just 'cause we're curmudgeonly with advice. :D

[fathom shuttle]

#math-and-meta message
here is one with all the clocks needed

[white dawn]

(Though one problem with buffers is that they can end up masking problems for awhile. You wait around a new factory for like 10-15 minutes and everything seems fine, so you go off to do other stuff, only to discover the factory mysteriously failing 2 hours later because a buffer was ever-so-slowly draining. If it were just pipes you'd've been more likely to notice the problem while you were still there and watching it, etc.)

[fathom shuttle]

Don’t do 1200 since it won’t work (at least in my experience)

[wicked nacelle]

that's any type of buffer -- containers have the same issue.

[white dawn]

Except it's in a nearly-useless graph format which requires manually interpreting every single step to know what's going on

[fathom shuttle]

I mainly use buffers to build up items so that once I build the machines I can connect them and the buffer can quickly fill up and reduce manifold saturation time

[humble osprey]

One quick question. I've recently made my power shard factory and in doing so it produces dark matter residue (I think that's what it's called) and to deal with that fluid byproduct I've been storing it inside industrial buffers and coming back every now and then to flush the system.

Is that a good idea?

[white dawn]

An unlabelled graph with tiny icons where you might not even know which recipes are involved is almost completely useless for information sharing

[wicked nacelle]

Are you f'n kidding me? NO.

DO NOT USE FLUID BUFFERS

[fathom shuttle]

Unlock the dark matter crystallization alt and then into dark matter crystals

[wicked nacelle]

make dark crystals from it and use them back into production (or at worst sink them)

[fathom shuttle]

Lmaoooo bro was really flushing that every now and then

[tiny rivet]

My brother im just at 90 and jot even started on the phase 3 parts

[humble osprey]

Oh yeah I don't have that alt recipie right now. This is my temp solution

Is that alr or am I not using them correctly

I have 4 industrial buffers in parallel. They can store 50 minutes of dark matter resedue

[fathom shuttle]

It’s a very inefficient use of your time dude
Just gather a couple of hard drives and you’ll get the recipe

Run it through a particle accelerator and you’ll get more DMC than you need

[humble osprey]

Alright. I'll get to doing that. Thanks!!!

[wicked nacelle]

I'm done talking about fluid buffers. Use the base recipe that uses diamonds and dark matter residue to make crystals

[white dawn]

No need to ridicule; that's a common thing for players to do

[fickle sentinel]

I just read that you can get jetpack at the start of the game if you find the jetpack hog, is that actually real

[wicked nacelle]

@humble osprey if you have a problem that you think you need fluid buffers for, ask how to solve the problem not whether fluid buffers are the solution

[fathom shuttle]

Chill dude it’s a game lol

[humble osprey]

Alright. I'll keep that in mind

[white dawn]

Exactly why ridiculing someone like that isn't called for

[fathom shuttle]

I’ve never come across one, I think the spawn chances are one in a million?

[fickle sentinel]

one per map, respawns randomly when killed somewhere else, fandom says

[white dawn]

It's real, yes -- the hog's name is Johnny. It's more like one in a thousand, and will only spawn on "elite hog" spawnpoints

(Although Johnny himself is just regular hog, apart from the jetpack)

[humble osprey]

Wtf

[hazy heath]

its so hard to find ppl to play this game

[fathom shuttle]

Is there an achievement for this?

[white dawn]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Alpha_Hog#Jetpack_Hog

[fickle sentinel]

Yes, thats where i read that

[fathom shuttle]

New world?

[wicked nacelle]

do they look different? or identical except they drop a pack?

[white dawn]

Fandom's not the official wiki, btw -- it's very out of date and full of bad info

[fickle sentinel]

oh its wiki not fandom, ok

[white dawn]

They've visually got a jetpack, and have a unique jetpack-charge attack. The hog model itself isn't any different though

[fathom shuttle]

According to Reddit posts it looks the same but flies up and kills gou

[wicked nacelle]

yeah I don't think I've seen one. Can SCIM tell you where it is?

[hazy heath]

I dont have a new world myself but im willing to joing anyone thats not endgame

[humble osprey]

This sounds so shitpost-y I can't tell if you guys r fr 💀💀💀

[white dawn]

If you happen to have saved the game while Johnny was spawned in, it might tell you, but enemy mobs despawn once you're far enough away, so it'd be unlikely

[hazy heath]

I got to late game myself and just got overwhelmed with nuclear

[white dawn]

It's just a random chance of spawning him instead of an "elite" hog, at the elite-hog spawnpoints, is all

[hazy heath]

I played a little bit with other people and its much more enjoyable

[humble osprey]

U don't have to do nuclear if u don't want to.

[fathom shuttle]

Mine is endgame but if you have a world in mid game I’d love to come and help you out

[white dawn]

That's true, can use SCIM to investigate the spawnpoints, I think. There are many of them throughout the map; it's not one specific spawnpoint

Though "farming" a Johnny spawn sounds like a recipe for extreme boredom. Just SCIM or AGS yourself a jetpack at that point. :D

[white dawn]

Oh, no, btw.

[hazy heath]

its not even worth it

i had more fun starting over

[wicked nacelle]

If there were a hoverpack I'd do it but jetpack isn't really that useful before you'd normally get it

[hazy heath]

the mess is too big to fix

[humble osprey]

Becuz of fuel issue right?

[fathom shuttle]

I’m an expert in fixing messes

[white dawn]

Eh, solid-biofuel-fuelled jetpack is better than nothing, though, IMO

[wicked nacelle]

yeah. You can have a parachute and without good fuel what does the jetpack get you other than a soft landing?

[white dawn]

I've been lucky enough to run into Johnny quite early on in two playthroughs, and I appreciated having the jetpack early

[fathom shuttle]

Yea you unlock the fuel for it in tier 5 right as you get it so it’s pretty much redundant

[fathom shuttle]

I’ve lived with a solid fuel jetpack for too long once lol

[wicked nacelle]

is it that much better than parachute?

[white dawn]

It's better than parachute in that it's a vertical-jump enhancer. :)

[karmic knot]

why does it take so long to produce 1 modular frame ...

[white dawn]

I'm with you that solid biofuel sucks as a jetpack fuel, but it's still a nice boost while exploring + factory-building, and I'll happily take it over nothing

[humble osprey]

I'm thinking of wasting my time by building 1000 batteires

[white dawn]

For jumping-off-a-high-vantage purposes, yeah, Parachute as A+ all throughout the whole game

Parachute remains underrated even with all its advocates. :P

[humble osprey]

Is there a shortcut to switch between parachute, jetpack and hover pack?

[white dawn]

Unfortunately no; gotta get used to the quick inventory-flip. :D

Remember that with inventory open, you can use the number keys to switch to the "recommended" ones that show up in the top bar

[humble osprey]

Damn

[white dawn]

Though that's difficult to develop muscle memory for since the ordering changes often, and sometimes the one you want to switch to isn't up there

Shift-click is your friend, though; once you're familiar with where they show up in your (sorted) inventory it's not too bad, with practice

[humble osprey]

One thing I don't like is that u can't jetpack while u have the build menu open

[white dawn]

(Though I acknowledge that's sort of an accessibility thing; would have to be able to be quick + precise with your mouse)

[humble osprey]

Do u guys use any mods

[hard ivy]

yep. my own rebalance mods, a hoverpack buff and permaday

[humble osprey]

Hover pack buff hm

Ngl there should be an endgame item that lets u combine hover pack with jetpack

[hazy heath]

Its just not necessary

[frail sleet]

Ionized fuel optional plugin for hoverpack? 😄

[hazy heath]

Esp with ionized fuel

[fathom shuttle]

Does ionized fuel allow you to hover?

[ripe elm]

anyoen that got a train spiral blueprint with 2 rails

[frail sleet]

Building huge things in the air with either a hoverpack or a jetpack (ionized) is still really painful for no good reason.

The "fly" option in AGS makes that painfully apparent. You don't run out of power range every time you move, you don't run out of fuel and have to land and recharge it every 30-50 seconds, you're not bobbing up and down constantly tapping spacebar every second for your 10 hours of building, your interact range doesn't prevent you from doing stuff, you stay in the air while manipulating menu's and such.. It's a completely new game.

I don't see why it has to be limited to AGS only at the end endgame. Take the guardrails off when the day has been saved.

[fathom shuttle]

Let us power the hoverpack with batteries

[white dawn]

I personally haven't in a long time (since Update 3), Not because I disagree with mods but I just didn't want to get used to using stuff that could potentially break whenever there's a game update

[fathom shuttle]

It would make batteries useful again

[white dawn]

Though I've been considering using Infinite Nudge whenever I do my next playthrough so I can do fancier decoration stuff

[white dawn]

Ah, that's an idea I can get behind!

[hard ivy]

honestly, the buff mod I'm using makes the hoverpack actually usable. but I had to drag all stat sliders to 2x

[spiral summit]

hold on were there green power slugs in older builds???

[white dawn]

Though IMO the solution to going outside of power range when using hoverpack is to plan your power lines to support your hoverpacking. :D I rarely go out of range while building.

[ripe elm]

anyone got a spiral train blueprint with 2 rails

[vestal mica]

infinite nudge and infinite zoop don't break anything, don't feel like cheating and are so handy

[frail sleet]

I am concerned when working with thousand hour saves that a mod will eventually break the game, cause damage to the save file or be incompatible with updates.. but i may have to jump in for one or two of them at some point.

[frail sleet]

infinitely nudging is a game feature now, but i understand that the mod lets you do more (like adjusting rotation angles)

[vestal mica]

it has smaller nudges, it also lets you rotate. like being able to put belt stands actually pependicular to the ramp

how can you not have htat

[white dawn]

There's a lot of mods which don't impact savegames at all (such as the two Infinite * mods mentioned above), and should be safe. Though yeah, I personally wouldn't want to use a mod which adds new stuff to the game, which could potentially be problematic to load the save without the mod active

[frail sleet]

Unfortunately they do impact the save game.

It may not be in any way that matters, but they do literally change the save game file contents in at least several places.

[white dawn]

The bigger "issue" for me is just getting too used to functionality that a mod provides, and then having to wait while mod authors get new versions out after updates.

[frail sleet]

I am a little skittish to make the jump and assumption that because they don't cause visible harm now, they're not ever going to cause serious harm.

[white dawn]

Like I think CobaltOfDoom was waiting for like six months (or more?) to get back into the game after 1.0 'cause there was a mod that was taking awhile to get updated

[ashen spruce]

Speaking of that, what mods are there that add a decent chunk of content?

[frail sleet]

i.e. i don't want to use a mod from hour 300 on something, get to hour 600, and the save file from 300-600 hours no longer works because of some weird mod interaction. It probably won't happen, it's likely even impossible for it to happen with certain mods, but i don't fully understand the mod or the save file systems and unfortunately have to weigh the risk of catastrophic consequences.

[white dawn]

No clue; I haven't used mods since Update 3

[vestal mica]

if you really want to be overwhelmed, satisfactory +

[white dawn]

fwiw, anecdotally I don't think I've ever heard of that happening. The save format, and Satisfactory's handling of it, seems awfully robust

Though I understand being leery of it. As I say, I haven't used mods since Update 3. :D

[frail sleet]

Yeah i suspect i am overly skittish with it

I just really don't want to be wrong.

[white dawn]

Yeah, it'd be rough in a game where you expect to spend hundreds of hours on a single save

[frail sleet]

My first save file was 700 hours, and my second one is in the 200's and it's like 1/5'th done

i'm not one of those complete-in-20-hours-and-restart peeps

or i would be much more yolo with mods

[humble osprey]

I'm NEVER touching nuclear energy 😭😭😭

[frail sleet]

It also does not help that my save is becoming too large already to manipulate with SCIM due to browser and code limitations. I don't have the expertise to save edit without it, and the SCIM creator doesn't reply to requests on their discord server.

[white dawn]

Heh, yeah, SCIM starts to struggle after awhile

[frail sleet]

It's started to outright crash on my save after 220 hours

i.e. it will never successfully do certain things, it will just crash every time

so if this is like 20% of my build, i have to plan that SCIM will entirely stop working at any time now.

[ripe elm]

anyone got a double spiral train blueprint

[frail sleet]

no, sounds hot though.

[white dawn]

I'd recommend just browsing around the usual blueprint spots online

[ripe elm]

there are only like 3- 4

[white dawn]

The chances of someone wanting to share blueprints but not doing it at the usual sharing site(s?) are pretty slim, IMO

[white dawn]

Be the change you want to see in the world, then?

[reef basin]

spirals are meh 😦

[wicked nacelle]

double spiral doesn't fit on a 6x6 which is very sad. I just have an "arm" blueprint I use

single helix fits

[reef basin]

ramps > spirals

[ripe elm]

they are handy if you need to go high in a short time

[reef basin]

with ramps you can go high and across

[frail sleet]

good, realistic solution: Train brings stuff to bottom of cliff, belt lifts take it to top, different train loads it from there and moves on.

[white dawn]

Another fun option is to technically have two separate train lines, and have a freight "elevator" (with conveyor lifts) to bring material from bottom to top (or top to bottom). Can look pretty neat, too

[humble osprey]

Thinking of overclocking every single one of my fuel burners to save space. Good idea?

[frail sleet]

beat ya

[white dawn]

Ooh, ninja'd!

[reef basin]

do you want to save space at the cost of shards?

[ripe elm]

thats pretty smart

[white dawn]

Though the "freight elevator" solution is more difficult to expand, of course

[white dawn]

Yeah, fuel gens in particular are very commonly overclocked

[humble osprey]

I have infinite shards so yes. I'm asking here cuz I don't want to lose out on fuel to power rario

[reef basin]

you can't lose that

[white dawn]

Nah, shards give you entirely linear changes across all aspects in power-generation machinery, so you won't lose any fuel efficiency

[humble osprey]

Nice

[humble osprey]

I thought it was exponential???

[white dawn]

I forgot to qualify "in power-generation machinery" at first; edited that in. :)

[humble osprey]

So having 2 construction uses the same amount of power as 1 constructer at 2x ?

[white dawn]

They behave differently in power buildings

[white dawn]

Nah, you were correct for production machines -- 2 at 100% uses less power than 1 at 200%. It's just power-generation machines where everything is just linear.

[humble osprey]

Alright thanks thanks

[white dawn]

(I think it's technically a polynomial, not exponential, so it's not super bad powerwise in production machines, btw)

[humble osprey]

I'm gonna break everything and rebuild it all with better alt recipies

Heavy oil resdue + diluted fuel + nitro fuel 👅👅👅👅👅

[reef basin]

Keep old, build new

[humble osprey]

Hmmm

[wicked nacelle]

is nitro fuel better? Looks like more sulfur to save coal which is an odd choice. not sure if it's more or less nitrogen

[humble osprey]

I hadn't considered that damn

[humble osprey]

It's primarily to save space and skip turbofuel directly to rocket fuel

[wicked nacelle]

the map has a lot of volume. not sure why you need to save space

[humble osprey]

Less logistics

[wicked nacelle]

less belt.. but not less logistical complexity. Whatever, but I think big factories are cool 🙂

it's dumb the game doesn't let you snap signs to the tops of containers. you have to do the beam trick to get them there

I guess I could make a blueprint

[lean ferry]

how many fused frames/m do I need? I have 10 heavy frames a min automated, a lot of nitrogen gas like 600 and I can get alot more casings

[white dawn]

The two main reasons why people like it are:

1. Simpler production chain
2. Access to Rocket Fuel earlier than with vanilla recipe (you otherwise need to unlock Nitric Acid, which is a bit further along milestonewise)

[wicked nacelle]

huh, didn't know it came later. it's in particle enrichment I guess

[white dawn]

I do think it's more "expensive" resourcewise, depending on what resources you care about, but by the same token I'm always saying how most folks shouldn't worry about running out of resources, so that may not be a factor worth spending too much time on

[lean ferry]

how many fused frames do I do a /m guys

[frail sleet]

it is exponential

[wicked nacelle]

Yeah I've never thought "yeah, let me waste some sulfur to save on making buildings"

[wicked nacelle]

the answer is "more" - I'm making 45/m at this factory.. probably another 30 at my starter base

[karmic knot]

where did u belt copper from ?

[lean ferry]

.....

how many a min tho

I want to make 4/m maybe

[wicked nacelle]

I want to make 4/m too, but I use around 60/m so it doesn't go so well

[wicked marlin]

so whats the verdict.
is it more efficient to:
refine items at the extraction point, then ship them.
ship raw materials, then refine them at the end point.
or have a second location to refine raw materials, then ship them again to be further processed?

[white dawn]

What do you mean by "efficient" in those scenarios?

[lean ferry]

so according to this server, ive been told that 60 rocket fuel/m is good enough to supply 15 drones

and thats more than enough for my rocket fuel chain ( I can jumpstart it using turbofuel)

[wicked marlin]

good question. I think i meant more in the spirit of being efficient than the letter. whatever you vibe with most ig.

[wicked nacelle]

Drone fuel use is all over the place. Drones don't use fuel while they're not going somewhere so docking doesn't count and if you're over-supplying then they can sit idle for a long time waiting to unload.

[frail sleet]

building at node is the least parts, time and effort in general; maybe slight exception for aluminum which requires coke/coal and larger production quantities than most other things.

[white dawn]

My own anecdotal experience with rocket fuel in drones is that I average about 2.5/min Rocket Fuel per drone. Specific numbers will vary depending on route length, of course, but that was pretty steady for me

[wicked nacelle]

in general don't ship ore

[lean ferry]

BUT i have two verdicts in this situation: unlocking rocket fuel, and spending 2hrs just grinding 20 hard drives getting nitro rocket fuel ( I have diluted packaged fuel) and heavy oil residue

[frail sleet]

I used considerably more than 15 drones.

[wicked nacelle]

I get that number per TRIP but how many trips they make varies drastically. I have some that sit idle much longer than their trip times

[lean ferry]

and baiscally my oil plant is near nitrogen near coal near sulfur

[frail sleet]

It's per minute, assuming they're constantly active. A max consumption, you could say.

Depending on the distance it can be less than 2, or maybe approaching 3 though.

[lean ferry]

so basically if I can spend 2hrs hard drive hunt get some crazy recipes, automate like 120packaged rocket fuel/m

[white dawn]

Ah, I always ensure that my drones are running 100% of the time. Material goes into a buffer, with an overflow-to-sink ahead of it

[wicked nacelle]

yep -- but that doesn't determine how many drones you can support

[white dawn]

That way my drone fuel usage is basically constant (and the question of "how many drones can I support with X/min fuel" has a trivial concrete answer, though it does require doing some averages after setting up some routes)

[lean ferry]

and then I can jumpstart with packaged turbofuel my whole chain

[wicked nacelle]

I use mine as manifold extensions -- many of them pull from shared supplies so sinking excess would be an awful choice

[lean ferry]

ok ima get to work getting alot of hard drives thanks for help guys

[wicked nacelle]

careful mixing fuels -- they don't refuel right if you do that

[lean ferry]

ill put it into the drone directly

[fast cove]

Hey guys how can I connect my coal generator to my other stuff?

[wicked nacelle]

for example, my fuel getting drones are idle 99% of the time

[lean ferry]

or actually ill just deconstruct the drone

[wicked nacelle]

same problem

[fast cove]

There is only one cable and that’s to power it, isn’t it suppose to power other stuff?

[white dawn]

Power poles + cables, as with anything else. :)

[wicked nacelle]

bootstrap with the fuel you'll be using forever

[lean ferry]

so manually start up the farm by bringing a bunch or resources

[wicked nacelle]

if the drone has 1 turbofuel in it it won't pick up any rocket fuel for the next trip (I'm pretty sure)

[lean ferry]

and then always start drone with rocket fuel?

[wicked nacelle]

or just kill that drone and make a new one --- just know that it often won't switch fuels correctly (it's possible but unlikely from my experience)

[fast cove]

It has power I just don’t know how to distribute if there is only one way to connect it

It says no empty power line

[white dawn]

Each power pole mk1 gives you four power connections you can make

[fast cove]

Oh

[wicked nacelle]

but often 2 of them are used -- one incoming from the prior pole, one to the next pole, so you only get 2 useful connections. That's why mk2 is such a huge upgrade. you go from 2 to 5 useable slots

[white dawn]

I tend to daisy-chain power as if it's a manifold, a la: ```
[B] [B] [B] [B]
| | | |
---------------

Though as mentioned, mk2 (and later mk3) will give you more connections per pole/socket, giving you some more flexibility

[fast cove]

Oh I see, I think it works now

Thanks

[white dawn]

(I actually usually set up a blueprint per machine type with a wall socket "embedded" on the machine in a way that looks good, and daisy-chain machines that way)

[coarse epoch]

nitro seems a bit iffy to me, I'm not sure. It's more fuel efficient, but worse for nitrogen and sulfer?, which are more scarce? I could do either when I break into rocket fuel, not sure which I'll do

I daisy chain power in the logistics floor almost always

[fast cove]

Btw why do I need fuel for a coal generator, shouldnt the coal do the work itself?

[modest flower]

how many mw of power should i have for entering phase 3

[white dawn]

As much as you can stand to build. :)

[modest flower]

if you had to give like a number

[wicked nacelle]

nah, building power early is a waste of time because later buildings are much more time:power efficient

[white dawn]

Coal generators need one of: coal, compacted coal, petroleum coke, plus water. You are correct that the coal is the fuel

[white dawn]

Honestly, it really depends on your playstyle, and how "big" you like to build

[wicked nacelle]

just try to have maybe 25% more power than you're consuming, IMHO.

[white dawn]

Personally I just keep an eye on my power grid -- if I ever get to within a third or quarter of reaching the limits on my "max consumption," I build out more power

[white dawn]

Building factories freely without worrying about power at all, regardless of size, is its own reward

[wicked nacelle]

but if you build out some crazy coal power system you'll waste a ton of time because fuel gens are coming soon

[white dawn]

I've never regretted building "big" on power, in any phase

[coarse epoch]

I think I used 32 coal generators with compacted coal before I did my fuel setup

[wicked nacelle]

I don't worry -- you can just click a power pole and know exactly where you are.

[white dawn]

Is it wasted time if you enjoyed it, and allowed you to build factories how you want?

[frail sleet]

coal generators dont use fuel

[fast cove]

Mine is using biomass

[wicked nacelle]

I don't think people really change how they build early coal-tier factories because they are low on power.

so you're begging the question

[frail sleet]

post video on a questions and help thread

[fast cove]

Oh never mind I turned the bio mass off and it still works

[coarse epoch]

hey can someone talk to me about priority mergers? I am guessing there's a good use case for them, but I don't see it. I have seen people build belt compactors with them but even then, I don't see why

[white dawn]

I mean, I'm just describing how I build power?

[wicked nacelle]

no you recommended it to others

leave your biofuel burners connected - they only run if they're needed so they can save your grid 🙂

[white dawn]

They've got a use in injected manifolds and people making Factorio-style "busses"

[frail sleet]

Priority mergers will let A through before B, even when B is present. That can stop e.g. an injection manifold input from choking an earlier belt, while still putting all of its contents on the manifold where it's needed at variable flow rates.

It can make it so that waste products in a loop are always used before fresh, preventing deadlock scenarios.

[fast cove]

Oh nice like a back up generator

[white dawn]

They're never actually necessary; you can always build your belting in a way that they're not required. But they can be useful for some situations, and folks (mostly Factorio players) have been asking for them for some time. :)

[gritty spire]

what are the "Water (Pure)" deposits for on the ground? far as i know you can't put water extractors on them

[frail sleet]

you can put special extractors on them in lategame

they sometimes help in areas that have little or no water

[gritty spire]

thanks

[white dawn]

That's a separate kind of node available to you in Phase 4. Called Resource Wells.

[coarse epoch]

you unlock those geyser things later

[frail sleet]

#screenshots message @ashen spruce bug with the hazmat suit, it drops a color channel.

[wicked nacelle]

it's pitiful how much water the water spots give you. I'm always shocked every time I forget and try to tap one and then end up dragging pipes

[coarse epoch]

I kind of agree. I was planning a big thing based on a water well and I realized it only had like 420

[frail sleet]

Ouch, that's bad

[coarse epoch]

lukcily there was a lake nearby, but?

[wicked nacelle]

I don't know why they exist. Do they have the same power costs as the other ones? if so, then they're quite bad

[white dawn]

Resource Wells overall require more power than "regular" resource nodes, for the same amount of material

It's just an extra source of late-game resources which allows you to build factories in areas you wouldn't otherwise be able to

[coarse epoch]

I guess technically I could get 1050 out if I used 24 shards to OC all the way

[white dawn]

(Or at least wouldn't be able to without logistic'ing in the necessary resources)

They're definitely intended for the case where power is not a concern to you anymore

[wicked nacelle]

with nitrogen you don't have a choice and with oil it's well (ha) worth it. but for water it's dumb. And the factory you can build with a water well only -- that wants water -- is essentially useless

and if you're pulling pipes then just pull one more pipe (especially easy now with autoconnect blueprints)

[white dawn]

I'd disagree with that. There's plenty of places where I might want to use a Pure recipe for some ingots but there's no water around

[wicked nacelle]

and a water well gets you very little water that's the point

[white dawn]

No reason not to tap a nearby well if there's one there

[wicked nacelle]

power is the reason

[white dawn]

Who cares if it gives me enough?

They're definitely intended for the case where power is not a concern to you anymore

[frail sleet]

It's just 3, i think

[white dawn]

Sure, if power is a concern to you, then resource wells are not things to use

[wicked nacelle]

no that's not true at all. nitrogen ones can GIVE you a ton of power

[white dawn]

As established above, though, I build power such that I don't have to worry about it, especially if I'm at the game stage where I'm considering resource wells

[wicked nacelle]

I think you're trolling or just gaslighting

[white dawn]

I need x/min water. There's no "natural" water nearby, but a nearby resource well provides x/min water. I don't care about power. Where is the downside there?

[wicked nacelle]

As I said before that factory that can only exist in that very specific situation is essentially not worthwhile to even build. If you need water at that point of the game then you need much more water than the well provides.

[white dawn]

Yes, you are right that the resource well has a limit on x/min, but if I don't need more than x/min, who cares?

[wicked nacelle]

You're making up a scenario that doesn't exist in real life

it's just not a thing to be like "I really need 450/m water no more no less"

[white dawn]

... so my own playthroughs ever since resource wells were added don't exist?

If I'm looking for factory sites and I have resource wells unlocked, I'm including resource wells in my decisions for factory placement

Not every factory where I use a Pure recipe is going to need 4000/min water

[white dawn]

It is absolutely a thing where I plan out a factory, and it turns out that it needs 450/min water

I will often plan factories before looking for sites for the factory, though I may tweak the factory design if a decent site doesn't present itself

[wicked nacelle]

you sound like greeny.

"everything is good"

[white dawn]

I'm... just describing how I play the game

If a resource well provides enough resources for me, why the hell wouldn't I use it?

Just because Somewhere Else could give me more?

[wicked nacelle]

enjoy your 450/m water in the late game.

[white dawn]

I don't want more. I'm making a factory which produces x/min of something, and thus ends up requiring specific rates of the resources it needs, including (possibly) water.

[cerulean gorge]

mr xaxxon, if a coal plant eats 15 coal a minute and i have 8 plants
does that mean i'm consuming [120] coal a minute?

i need more coal to start working on steel and i wanna know if i can move some of the coal f rom existing miner mk1s to other facilities

[wicked nacelle]

IF it does then you should. But it won't for any realistic factory that a general person would WANT to build

[stray loom]

"How dare you play the game in a different way to me!!1!1!"

[white dawn]

If a resource well is sufficient, I'm not gonna discount wells just 'cause I could be getting more water elsewhere

[wicked nacelle]

you're using all sorts of weasel words and vacuously true statements

[white dawn]

I'm wondering why you think my factories are unrealistic? Or that I'm not a general person

[wicked nacelle]

If the moon is made of cheese then... literally anything is true.

[south sinew]

You're making a ton of assumptions about the "general person" here

[white dawn]

I'm not making things up here; this is just how I play the game

[south sinew]

which I don't really think is true at all

[wicked nacelle]

late game factories that only need water but only 450 water/m to do something useful are contrived.

[white dawn]

I acknowledge that maybe I'm not a "general person," who the heck knows on that front. :D

[south sinew]

the most common wisdom about the game is small independent factories, and for those, his approach is completely consistent

[wicked nacelle]

contrived to argue

[south sinew]

I personally do not do that which is why I built on the ocean

[cerulean gorge]

main bus all the meaningful manufactured materials using the natural roads lmfao

[south sinew]

but it should be pretty clear that one should not assume that you will always want tons of water per minute

[versed plinth]

i converted 1/4 of my fuel power plant to plastic and rubber production and its incredible, i now have 480 / min of each!

[white dawn]

Well, I feel like you're the one contriving arguments here. I'm just describing how I've played the game for years.

If you don't believe me, that's fine!

If you really can't understand how a factory I build might not need thousands/min of a resource, well, so be it.

[cerulean gorge]

i tried booting up satisfactory on the steam deck and i'm hitting 30fps on low, my factory is peak unoptimized 🔥🔥🔥

[white dawn]

And yeah, Puppy's right -- I mostly build smaller independent factories. For late-game products in particular I'll often have multiple "sub-factories" making intermediate components, and then shifting them around