ok, but the reason why that's impractical is because it sees the young have to spawn in the water, then crawl to an inhabited area then hope and prey they're eaten by a human or another animal
#lore-discussion
brave topaz
forest condor
i mean the sculpter isn't incapable of making stuff like that
not to mention it's strange theme of leeches/worms being the biggest perts of it's affliction
brave topaz
it's not that it's not possible
it's just that it'd be stupid
it exposes the parasites to predators, completely atypical of a creature designed to target humans
while they're making their way to a human food source they could be eaten by all manner of creature, insects, birds even small mammals and fish
thus completely negating any chance of being a threat
forest condor
if you have enough of them...not to mention the worms would just kill the thing s that eat them
and there are no fish remember
brave topaz
this theory's a pretty strong one IMO
well not that in particular but i mean that you claimed that their presence in the meat was a way to enter the human digestive tract unnoticed
but what would be the point in doing that if you're a water based creature
forest condor
idk, anyways i gtg, happy hunting
brave topaz
you too, thanks for the debate
i'm gonna work on this one a little more and get horrendously disproven later down the line
urban burrow
That happens to every single theory i come up with join the club brit lol
brave topaz
Hahahaha, i'm not afraid to admit it, people are smarter than me, and a hell of a lot better at coming up with interesting monster origins and the likes
the devs probably have files 100 pages deep on why each monster is the way it is
urban burrow
Ya they have some very interesting pages on the "monsters" every damn time i think i got a solid theory tho it gets blown up like the second i share it
The god of theory crafting here tho is @sinful trout His theories seem to almost always be correct. I swear he cheats
sinful trout
WHO DARES SUMMON ME FROM MY SLUMBER
urban burrow
Not me! IT WAS ARPY!
forest condor
He kidnapped the lore devs and fed them truth serum
ashen tartan
The thing that always confused me was there's a load screen that says the meathead relies on hearing, but it doesn't seem able to hear gunshots. They kinda loud so.... Makes sense they're deaf.
ashen tartan
Yeah I figured.
ashen tartan
There's a lot on live that was changed but the text left alone.
sinful trout
@forest condor whats the theory i was summoned for?
ashen tartan
How Water Devils propogate.
ashen tartan
Whether they're created as they are or are they the result of worms coming into contact with initiated flesh.
wooden hound
Well i believe that the water devils are originally a parasite that lives on meat, normally they'd give you stomach ache and severe pain in your abdomen if you ate them but nothing more, and would subsist off of you until you diedperhaps they were an accident similar to Arpy's remarks on the Meathead, but they're a fairly simplistic and effective creaturebut when they entered the digestive tract of the initiated hunters, they ate their flesh and this exposed them to the influence of the Sculptor in a concentrated formwhich accelerated their transformation into a monster, this then caused them to feast off of the insides of the hunters until they grew too large and erupted from their hosts, after which they infested the bayou and used the many life forms within to grow and become a serious threat around all bodies of water
@sinful trout. This is copy pasted might be scrambled
Its from @brit
@brave topaz
wooden hound
Ok
sinful trout
alright @brave topaz overall i love the premise behind the theory and the way you crafted it
the mention of the water devils is something ive actually been biting on for some time. i was thinking to myself (why would the sculptor possess a pile of meat or a few worms that take over the meat,(unless of course the meat was from something entirely different like a hellhound, but that would mean that hellhounds eventually turn to water devils when killed. but the bugs that come out of hounds looks more like maggots than worms)) and we delve into something different.
What if the sculptor had no effect on the worms. but instead the worms manifested the same way the meathead did, it was directly exposed to the bloodstream of initiated hunters, I.E "the ritual blood that flows through their veins". so my belief of this stems mainly from the meathead, as the meathead not only was recieving nourishment from an initiated hunter and got an adverse reaction from it. but it also began to eat the hunter, as if it was hungry no matter what.
now heres where it gets wacky. assuming its the same process as for water devils (beefrat and harpo eat meat, worms exposed to ritual blood causing mutative reactioln same as meathead), but heres where its interesting. beefrat and harpo appeared to be in discomfort rather than pain, implying that the worms werent eating the flesh of their hosts, rather manipulating it and growing. (as is the nature of a parasite)
the worms were only released when Jonas cut them open. causing the oxygen deprived worms to become oxyginated and grow further, and causing them to turn red.
so that implies a symbiotic relationship. hardly in the sculptors nature.
but then again. what does the sculptor have to do with this? assuming the ritual blood is what set this whole thing off were left to assume the sculptor had nothing to do with it.
and heres where my original theory ties in. the ritual blood isnt simply just human blood, i believe its also the blood of some superior being (whether thats a being from the other dimension or simply just "the first hunter" i dont know.)
this also gives a reason for the meathead to be working with the sculptor. we know theyre called soul farmers by paxton, and that they live peacefully alongside grunts and hives alike. (except horses, which seem rather spooked by meatheads) so this further leads me to believe that the ritual blood that flows through hunters veins is in fact, tainted (i prefer the term "Blessed") with the blood of something from the other side
and just so you know when i began to think on my blood theory
it began here
from here i began to look for similarities
and came up with this theory
so yes @brave topaz i think its plausible, personally i think its the nail on the head, but im biased as this has also been my theory from the start
wooden hound
Thank you for analyzing @brave topaz's theory @sinful trout.
wooden hound
Question
sinful trout
shoot
wooden hound
Is this a monstrvm page..? I've been looking for a source for lore, as I do not have access to the TS.
sinful trout
theres a monstrorvum in there
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/370142302196334593/590838398911250432/HUNT_Showdown_Lore.pdf thand heres a pdf version
wooden hound
Thanks.
forest condor
@brave topaz I concede
Thought about it, read more, and read what var said
You make a good point about water devils
@sinful trout let's say ritual blood comes from an entity, could it be that it had laid traps in the blood, safeguards that allow things like water devil's and Meatheads to form?
dense nova
It doesn't seem like they're triggering some sort of safe guard from what I've read.
Sounds more like they're feeding on the same source of power that gives the hunters their power.
dense nova
Any sort of powerful supernatural power source like that is probably gonna be multi use.
And that adds an interesting aspect of "Keep our blood away from spooky shit," that could be added in gameplay at some point.
Imagine if grunts got SUPER aggro on you if you were bleeding, or that dogs would pause and start mutating if they bit you while you were bleeding.
Making bleed not just a "I'm losing health slowly," but a proper taunt and aggro draw would go a long way towards making it as large a threat as fire.
brave topaz
Yeah the lore certainly points to the blood being a concentrated form of the Sculptors influence which is, as I said earlier catalytic and quickens a creature’s conversion into the sculptor’s minions or mutative as The Great Theory Hermit describes, more plausibly the latter. This lends an interesting point; we've seen the devastating capabilities of weak, pre natal humans being fed off of the blood and symbiotic parasites leeching off of a host containing the blood, but not the transformation of one of these hosts ( if that is at all possible), judging from the aforementioned 2 events if the Ritual blood does somehow manage to take hold in a host, the consequences could be devastating. Perhaps similarly to what could've happened had the parasites that became the Water Devils stayed in the hosts and continued to leech off of them.
and thank you @forest condor and @sinful trout for taking the time to respond to my theory
sinful trout
Its a good theory, so my pleasure
amber harbor
maybe the sculptor influence had some part in the creation of water devils
as in the dark zone
bc the hunters were ok-ish before entering the bayou
they just had some intestinal worms
hence why they still went on a hunt
it wasnt that bad
but the moment they step in the sculptors exclusion zone they start feeling pain and falling to the ground
sinful trout
@amber harbor they got the intestinal worms during the hunt
amber harbor
and so the water devils are a mix between hunter blood and sculptor influence
didnt they get them in a town while celebrating?
sinful trout
nope
amber harbor
so they just came across some rotting meat in an infected zone and decided to eat it?
sinful trout
they ate some meat they found in the bayou because they spent all their moneyu in town and couldnt afford snax
amber harbor
so they had breakfast in the bayou?
they left with an empty stomach, weird
but looking at the monstrorum I see that the writher H Collins is talking about 2 women about which he knows something
might those be the Twins?
or did I get it wrong
sinful trout
ME AND ARPY WENT OVER THAT
whoops caps
basically
when hayden was talking about the two women
he was reffering to the article that he sent his brother xavier already
then went on to say that he cant find anyone who will publish it
then he proceeded to talk about how a man came to him when he was at a bar
2 different stories
sinful trout
oh perhaps
i never even thought of that
we know that their lore is somewhat in the vetterli entries
ashen tartan
- I haven't read all the hell hounds lore yet but are they definitely made by the sculptor or could they also be afflicted by the initiated blood like meatheads and possibly water devils?
- The bat boss we keep talking about the last couple days, its purpose could be to hunt down hunters and drain their blood. The initiation ritual could have changed it in ways that the sculptor is interested in but unable to replicate.
- Enemies morphing and/or growing more powerful after killing a hunter would be an exciting idea.
wooden hound
@ashen tartan what would the bat boss do in the sculptors army?
ashen tartan
I have no idea besides being made specifically to gather blood from hunters who went through the ritual.
The Vampire is just an idea that's been being batted around the last couple days.
sinful trout
@ashen tartan unfortunately i dont think its really practical with the lore. but no i believe the hellhounds are a product of our sculptor
ashen tartan
I don't have a dog in this race so I don't really care. I'm always interested in more bosses though. Only having three strikes me as really low considering so many contracts have 2 bosses at once.
forest condor
@sinful trout any chance that were fighting the same game over and over? Same character models, same map, and it wouldn't make sense that were fighting the bosses in the same place over and over again
And it keeps the lore going because the bosses can still come back, each map is just one example
frigid heart
@forest condor I am on a lore kick so my noodles in the mindset.. if what you are saying is true it would mean that Every round played is its own story.
sinful trout
@forest condor unfortunately they retconned that
remember?
@frigid heart yeah that was the old lore
they didnt like it though so they basically removed it
and said the bosses respawn
forest condor
@sinful trout i know they retconned that the lore is the same story being told over and over again, but the gameplay could still be reperesentative of that
sinful trout
mm, i dont think so
forest condor
since it's on the same map wth th esame relatively low number of hunter models
probably not 😦
frigid heart
i actually didnt know that.. its hard to find hard lore on the game lol
frigid heart
ya was looking at it earlier.. but i didnt see anything as to what the Scullptor is xD
as example
forest condor
big entiti thing that we believe is responsible for some if not all of the event
though there have been hints at multiple entities
sinful trout
so
there are many entities at play in this gamer
but the main one surrounding it is what we call the scuulptor
the reasonw e named it that is from a letter
frigid heart
so this is the only mention of a "Sculptor" WE PROBABLY HAVE A SCULPTOR ON OUR HANDS"
forest condor
@sinful trout any thoughts on why the assassin would fall under the sculpter's influence? or do you think he chose to join?
or possible could he be an entity from their side?
but a lesser one
sinful trout
@frigid heart yes
@forest condor like i said, the whole vincent joining the sculptor is my own theory
frigid heart
man there isnt much in the way of lore given to us then xD
forest condor
i didn't even knew you had that theory
i was just spitballing
(probably forgot you said anything :/)
sinful trout
Yeah basically my theory is vincent has these powers before sculptor influence
Then fell to it one day when he was out hunting
Became the assasin
Another is that the sculptor has lived among us for a lot longer than we thought
And that hes actually morphed this man slowly into his own servant. A terminator situation if you will.
On the outside all human
Inside? Void of black inhuman shit
frigid heart
from what i gathered hes a Demon so he could of masked himself?
sinful trout
Just the worst of the sculptors imagination
@frigid heart vincent?
Or are you saying Vincent is the sculptor
frigid heart
Sculptor
frigid heart
no i know.. im saying the Sculptor could of lived with everyone learned and slowly started everything
sinful trout
Ohhh gotcha
Yeah thats part of my second theory
That hes lived among us for many years
frigid heart
but the way they throw out "the entity" it makes me think of an entity like the one from dead by daylight.. but instead of in its own world its in the real world.
its what i makes me think wehn i read things like " Before its arrival, the entity's major aspects " xD
thorn swan
Anyone find it odd that half the monsters are bug themed while the other half are more classic demons?
sinful trout
@thorn swan theres an aspects theory thats floating around
Theory on that is that each entity has its own aspect that it creates with
Ie sculptor could be bugs
wooden hound
@thorn swan well one of the names of the devil is the lord of the flies, maybe a connection?
frigid heart
a demon but not the main head honcho xD?
thorn swan
Hmm
Still bugs me though, the fact that all the bugs are also killed by fire makes.me feel like thwre are two things at play
urban burrow
To call it a demon you are implying it came from hell which is not the case
thorn swan
Im not saying its a legitmate demon, more that they seem more themed towards classical demons
frigid heart
so i am watching the lore stream. #27 and the one person is saying we havent found everything in the world.. and all the weapon snippets
urban burrow
spider
frigid heart
Ah but a Demon doesnt necessarily mean Lucifers pals
urban burrow
meathead
thorn swan
Meathead I would put in the middle along with the grunts, spider is still more buggy than anything else
And water devils are just a wild card
urban burrow
yeah im not a fan of water devils in general
marble canopy
immolators are the worst
thorn swan
Lore wise they are pretty out of place, the fact that they attack grunts is also strange
urban burrow
Winter my main point was people often confuse religious things with what is happening in the huntverse. And calling things demons implies its from hell per the definition. Was mainly to help alleviate some people getting confused
thorn swan
I think in Hunt that mosy relgions have an idea, but dont know fully what is happening
urban burrow
I like the immolators what about it do you not like horcerer?
What do you mean everbean?
I mean this stuff was being covered up heavily. So most people didnt know much right?
frigid heart
True Most times the word Demon is used its as religion. but its also can be tied to other means not necessarily to religion.. but i hear ya
urban burrow
Well per the definition it is tied to religion
frigid heart
its tied to all demon is a supernatural and often malevolent being prevalent historically in religion, occultism, literature, fiction, mythology, and folklore
supernatural
thorn swan
Christians and voodoo users both see the events as something spiritual, but they are both kind of wrong?
urban burrow
I get ya now
Ya, they all impose their belief structure on what is happening this is very common in real life also
urban burrow
Winter is that your definition? Merriam webster would like to speak with you 😄
I see what your saying now everbean
I was confusing your first statement is all i think 😄
I dont get why people hate on the immolator so much. I love it lol
thorn swan
Its alright, sucks when it spots you in a gunfight
urban burrow
That it does. Makes you have to think
thorn swan
Just wish its pathfinding was better, it can get pretty goofy at times
urban burrow
yeah that is true
frigid heart
there are plenty of things tied to the word Demon is all i am saying.. it isnt just a Christian word meaning one of lucifers lackys
thorn swan
I wonder what people havent found on the maps yet, if there is anything
urban burrow
i agree it just implies religious is all. Like i said i was only throwing it out there because so many people get confused thinking all this stuff is from hell
frigid heart
but even by webster it backs up what i said "usually daemon, mythology : a supernatural being whose nature is intermediate between that of a god and that of a human being "
xD
thorn swan
I do find it interesting that in both maps it appears that people tried to fortify areas to survive against something, most likely the grunts.
frigid heart
Mythology
urban burrow
Mythology about gods is also religious 😄
But you are getting hung up on semantics here. Was just tryin to help people understand that may wander by and read that, that these things are not from hell,
frigid heart
there is a bunch of what it can mean and you are right lots of people dont know that it isnt just a meaning to religion.
true true
lol
wait has it been stated what started it all? like a chemical or some supernatural being?
frigid heart
oh yea there were others wernt there..
urban burrow
yes
thorn swan
It has some supernatural ties, banishing bosses isnt exactly normal science
brazen dove
Wait, does water devil attacks grunts that enter the waters?
frigid heart
ima say Louisiana Incident. as it is a little unclear as they talk about deliveries and inhailers..
brazen dove
read smth about that above
thorn swan
@brazen doveyes, if the grunt follows you into the watwr it will die pretty quickly
urban burrow
Winter im not positive to be honest. Other then i think its implied that the sculptor started this event
thorn swan
But what is the sculptor, a person? A group? Something spooky?
urban burrow
And ya everbean supernatural i think is a fine term for this. Because all that supernatural means is our current level of science cannot explain it
Something from another dimension
thorn swan
What is their endgame?
frigid heart
there isnt much to say there is only one place it was mentioned as a sculptor?
urban burrow
dimension/realm. I think we are still unsure on that
I think sculptor is mainly what we kinda named it
thorn swan
Does the scluptor want the whole world to look lile the bayou or is that just phase one of the plan
urban burrow
@forest condor GET IN HERE im being overwhelmed haha
frigid heart
xD
brazen dove
damn, i nvr notice that water devils are hostile to any other entity
thorn swan
Lol, not asking you exactly just throwing out general ideas
urban burrow
yeah i know lol
frigid heart
the word sculptor is mentioned once
urban burrow
Arpy is really good with the lore and so is var but im afraid to ping him again
@sinful trout Help?
thorn swan
Entity is mentioned as well
frigid heart
"WE PROBABLY HAVE A SCULPTOR ON OUR HANDS" yup its mentioned aswell
urban burrow
Yeah i think that came after we kinda named it. I could be getting my time line wrong tho
thorn swan
Note, A sculptor
wooden hound
A sculptor, is that in a lore?
thorn swan
Not the sculptor
brazen dove
probably the sculptor/s are trying to bring the said "Entity" to our plane of existence?
frigid heart
it is im trying to find the snippet again
urban burrow
Yeah everbean that is a good distinction to make. there is obviously more then one of these things that exist
wooden hound
Not the sculptor, a sculptor that means its plural
🤔
Or would
If it did m, in fact say a sculptor.
thorn swan
We know thay the AHA arent the only ones, so these events are worldwide
urban burrow
correct
brazen dove
now i think about it, did they ever explain how the hunter gets the dark sights?
wooden hound
@brazen dove some form of ritual
thorn swan
And based on the louisna event book we know it wasnt world ending, as its written in past tense
urban burrow
correct
wooden hound
Initiation ritual
frigid heart
Petella Note says the sculptor thing in it
brazen dove
what if the initiation ritual have connection with the sculptor?
urban burrow
My theory has always been like a hierarchy you have really strong beings and weaker ones...The weaker ones cannot get here on their own so they need things like sculptors to morph and create a stable "host" if you will for the lesser beings
frigid heart
"SCULPTOR ON OUR HANDS. BUT IF THE DOCTOR'S RIGHT SOMEHOW THIS ONE'S ABLE TO POSSESS AND SHAPE MULTIPLE PEOPLE. SEVERAL THINGS TO CONSIDER..."
or it takes em all as hosts for itself 😮
urban burrow
possible ya
thorn swan
I feel lile i remember reading somewhere that the grunts are.people being controlled
frigid heart
wait no the word shape. so that ties into what you said
thorn swan
So not tradional zombie, more possed beings.
urban burrow
that is my thought ya
they are more hosts
most my theories get debunked really fast tho. So who knows haha
thorn swan
And the sculptor, "sculpts" people into tools like the spider
urban burrow
or shapes them to be hosts haha. So the spider may be shaped specifically for a special entity to come thru and take control of
brazen dove
what if the monsters are people that "Fails" the ritual, while hunters are those that "Succeeded" in the ritual?
urban burrow
I would think that would be way to many people
frigid heart
well shadow if you LOOK at the spider its multiple human parts
urban burrow
Not everyone knows what is happening its a very covered up set of events
frigid heart
you can actuall shoot it in the "head" and its a human head
thorn swan
It has a face and semi human limbs
brazen dove
and the difference is who is doing the ritual
wooden hound
The clues are linked to a portal arent they?
brazen dove
on the hunter side, it would be the AHA that does the ritual on the hunters
what if the sculptor are also doing the same thing to the people in the bayou? albeit, the less ethical method kind.
frigid heart
Do the devs plan to add more to the game after their big 1.0 release? or?
frigid heart
k so alot will or should be expanded upon then.,. we may get to play more of the story to
maybe there will be an end game where the events ended.
urban burrow
This line "
It seems like the hunters of this era were simply calling them Grunts. There are conflicting reports of course, but the material I have found so far appears to be talking about what's probably a slow-moving and mostly human creature, possibly the victim of a viral infection, or controlled by some kind of greater spirit or Loa."
is what made me come up with my theory of them being hosts shaped by the sculptor for other entities
or reaffirmed my theory
wooden hound
Material?
urban burrow
book of monsters
wooden hound
Ah.
urban burrow
Also if anyone hasnt gone thru some of the pins there is loads and loads of good info in there
forest condor
we called it the sculpter after we heard it called that
urban burrow
ok yeah i wasnt positive on timeline
I was over my head arpy that is why i called haha
forest condor
lol
forest condor
eh it'll be cleared up anyways
wooden hound
Also, i believe that one of the wanted persons, had strange 'markings' any ideas?
urban burrow
Got a source? Not sure what your referring to
frigid heart
so a sculptor is mentioned but by that video they are calling it "A" sculptor.. -_- damn this games lore is all over lol
urban burrow
If my theory is right it would fit well with there being multiple entities known as skulptors
wooden hound
@urban burrow
frigid heart
i wanna know WHAT a/the Sculptor actually is but everything points to it being ONE being or Multiple.. is in the sculptor is refered to as the or A all the time xD
urban burrow
Probably the same symbols and letters people here have been deciphering
frigid heart
maybe
urban burrow
Well I'd it's the only skulptors here many would refer it to as the
wooden hound
We need an img of his tats.
urban burrow
If
brazen dove
probably sculptor is a designated title ?
of those that are suspected to be involved with the incident
frigid heart
im talking in the Q&A pdf its refered to as both
urban burrow
No it's definitely a single entity but that doesn't mean it's not like a race and it's just the only one in our realm currently
wooden hound
@brazen dove no, its the supposed creator of the plague.
frigid heart
true proxy
brazen dove
so there's only 1 person/thing ?
urban burrow
I like that idea mainly cus it fits so well with my theory lol
wooden hound
At least in our realm.
frigid heart
well from what im gathering Shadow in the current timeline/story there could only be one active.
as in there is many sculptors just only one in the area?
brazen dove
probably that's more logical
as i rmb they mention that the incident are happening everywhere
frigid heart
cause with this question it would state there has been others Q: Has anyone ever recovered from a mutation/infection of a sculptors influence? A: Yes
urban burrow
Yeah when they say "a skulptor on our hands" it implies they have met one before or at least know of the beings. Which heavily lends to their being multiple of them in their realm
frigid heart
whos to know if it only one? that keeps coming back. or if there are multiple
urban burrow
that could be possible
brazen dove
what if there's a sculptor on the hunter side?
ashen tartan
This alternate history is based on ours, and zombies have been around for a long time as a myth. Wouldn't surprise me if incidents have been happening for centuries. The Louisiana Incident is supposed to be worse than the others, isn't it?
@brazen dove That'd explain the pictures for the perks. Creepy things that they are.
brazen dove
would explain how the hunters gets the dark sights too
urban burrow
Ive often thought of that also shadow. My thought was as follows. I think there are more then one realm at play. One that the skulptor comes from and pulling lesser beings from. And maybe another realm that is tryin to help us to try to stop the entities before they consume our realm and move onto their own
wooden hound
@urban burrow maybe one sculptor isn't powerful enough to cause multiple occurrences around the world?
forest condor
@frigid heart A sculpter reffers to the trype of entity
suggesting we've faced a sculpter befor
brazen dove
or the sculptor helps in the creation of AHA
wooden hound
Then why would the aha go against it?
ashen tartan
Rifts leak energy from another realm into ours. Sculptors shape things. I think it makes a lot of sense for the sculptors to be trying to convert our world to be more like their own.
urban burrow
i agree padre
ashen tartan
Different sculptors, furry
urban burrow
and it would make sense if a third realm existed with knowledge of them that they would attempt to help us stop them before they can move on to their own realm
frigid heart
@forest condor what i want to know and trying to think of and find info on is What is the/A sculptor xD
brazen dove
the stray sculptor gave the knowledge of the "darker side" such as dark sight/initiation ritual and about the clue
frigid heart
@urban burrow heres a mind fuck.. unlimited realms.. Sculptors go around Fucking them all up. and the 3rd you speak of managed to fight them off and is helping to save ours..
forest condor
a sculpter as far as we know, is an entity that changes people and controls them in a way
urban burrow
These beings could regularly move from realm to realm repopulating as they become overpopulated they start turning another realm
brazen dove
@frigid heart could be possible
frigid heart
OR its all diferent timelines and it actually is all religion and the sculptor actually is a singular(for basic description lucifer. not neccicarily him but at the stature of)
urban burrow
In the QnA they say its not religious in nature tho do they not?
frigid heart
or just a lowly little lacky for the big boss
subjective. In classical writing all entities have 1 aspect (Death, Decay, Fertility etc.) sculptor displays two traits (Death and Insects) is it possible that there are more entities at play than just the sculptor? (Meathead as an example is aquatic/death mixture leeches don’t fall into category of death) A: Good question… Or maybe there’s another meaning there. One thing you have keep in mind is that our narrative material is subjective. This stuff is written by people. And people can be unreliable. They can be lying or they can be wrong.
sorry let me edit that
Or maybe there’s another meaning there. One thing you have keep in mind is that our narrative material is subjective
forest condor
aspects have been mentioned but have also been said to not be completely accurate
frigid heart
the last thing i said is the line i wanted to highlight
forest condor
also unreliable narrators is a common theme
urban burrow
yeah
I cant find the QnA question about whether its religious or not. I know im not imagining things haha
forest condor
so you hit it on the head there
brazen dove
at least, the theory that there's a sculptor on our side would explain on how the hunter gets their hand on the dark sight ritual
forest condor
also it's not religous in nature at all
wooden hound
Or the leaked energy.
forest condor
religion plays a tetriary role
urban burrow
exactly
frigid heart
"Q: Are there more entities at play aside from sculptor? A: Yes "
ashen tartan
@frigid heart I don't think that theory will fly. Typically in gothic horror like this game no one wins, it's just a slow deterioration. Giving us hope by saying another realm won would be a tonal conflict.
urban burrow
Yeah, which could be the lesser beings that the skultpor shapes us to be "possessed by"
frigid heart
so i may not be right in saying its unlimited realms but i may not be wrong.
urban burrow
I think there are for sure lots of realms
ashen tartan
It makes sense, it just doesn't match the tone is all.
ashen tartan
Like I said, horror like what this game has typically doesn't have shining hope, just grim determination.
A realm that beat the Enemy and is helping us would be a shining hope that it can be defeated. Doesn't really fit. A realm that is helping us in the hope that we act as a buffer so it can't get at them? That fits very well.
urban burrow
I dont think any of the "other realms" won. I think the realm that would be "helping" us would simply be doing so to keep them at bay so that they do not enter their realm next
ashen tartan
^
frigid heart
"He said, parts of the Devil, The Lord of the Flies, the Sculptor, whatever you want to call it, went bad. Not often, but they did. When it weakened, they went feral, or something like to that. Hard to imagine, isn't it?"
Interview with John Victor concerning the Spider Interviewer: T. Collins Undated Typewritten, questions omitted (..) 8.5 x 11 5/5
see so now it gets refered to as a devil.but the main part i am pointing out. Maybe the Sculptor isnt bad.. i am from BC canada. we have mountian lions there and they dont necicarilly attack humans until they either are starving or have gone mad
urban burrow
People impose their belief system on what they are seeing around them. Much like people do still today
frigid heart
true guys. that makes sense they feel they are next so tey wanna stop it
brazen dove
basically a friends with benefit kind?
ashen tartan
I fail to see how making women into hives could be considered a good deed.
urban burrow
lol
frigid heart
that snippet seems to be refering to a sculptor not the spider cause of the next passage
Hard to imagine, isn't it? The Spider, Scognamiglio speculated, was there to make sure that didn't happen It was faster and stronger than anything else, symbolically different to the insectoid forms of the others. It's function was cauterization. Destroy the bad parts. Trap them in webs. Kill them. Eat them
ashen tartan
Oooh, no no.
Passage A says that sometimes the sculptor's minions go feral. Passage B says the spider was made to hunt those down and eradicate them. That's how I'm taking it. I don't think the passages are referring to the sculptor going awol or the spider hunting down the sculptor.
urban burrow
That was my impression also
Because the skulptor wouldn't create a spider to hunt bad skulptors
frigid heart
oh im talking with what "John Victor" said
frigid heart
it seems to point to a sculptor going bad.. and spiders are there to clean the bad? i unno its. late my noodle isnt at peek funcionality lol
urban burrow
lol
ashen tartan
The key part is "parts of the sculptor"
If all the mobs are controlled by the sculptor then some parts could go rogue
frigid heart
ok yeah that makes it less muddy xD
wooden hound
Can I get a recap?
urban burrow
Or if they were shaped to have other lesser entities take control of them naturally some of them would go rogue also
Sorry i like to try and tie everything into my theory hahaha
wooden hound
Oooohhh i seee.
sinful trout
@urban burrow whats up
urban burrow
Var were lots of questions going around. Needed your expertise 😄 Arpy came in and helped though 😄
thick pond
Is there a doc or something on the combined lore pieces ?
urban burrow
check pinned msgs
warm sequoia
I dont see any evidence stating their is a realm on our side
And as to non grunt and other non sculptor entities, we know they are all based off one person by the sculptor according to the book of monsters
but in old OLD lore i recall a line saying the hive could have been possessed by some sort of lesser spirit, and with what we know of grunts I think its possible that the creatures bodies have been fashioned after the original infected person, but are possessed by lesser spirits in service to the sculptor(s)
which goes along with the line about how this sculptor can possess more than one person
its likely that typical sculptors are these lesser spirits
urban burrow
I fail to see how them being "based" off one person changes things. Also your right there is not much evidence to that. Other then we know a decent amount, like how to banish, how to initiate and so on. But yes that is my thought also that there is sort of a hierarchy of entities higher beings and lesser beings
warm sequoia
if they are based off one original person who was infected one could argue that they are being controlled by the sculptor directly
I would think lesser spirits would not all create the exact same creatures, even if they serve similar functions
however i will admit you could say they are all "sculpted" in the same manner because it is the most efficient
wooden hound
@urban burrow the hive is based. Off of ruths mom isn't it?
urban burrow
My thought is its not the lesser spirits creating them. The sculptor is shaping them for the lesser beings. (and ya furry i think that is her name, could be wrong tho)
warm sequoia
but that could also be used to defend the theory that the sculptor is acting alone in his control over them, and having them all effectively carbon copies of each other makes it easier for him to take the wheel
that makes sense
urban burrow
It could ya, i do agree
warm sequoia
the sculptor is certainly extremely powerful, it might be easier for him to do the sculpting and then give the bodies to lesser spirits
urban burrow
Yeah I mainly just think its a cool idea haha. My lore theories often are debunked rather quickly so i assumed the same will happen to this one 😄
warm sequoia
I think if you know the lore most theories have the same merit, there is only so much lore to take in after all
and i think this is especially sound
switching gears, am i the only one who is relatively disappointed in the lore for this game?
I feel like it tries to be different just to be different
the butcher stands out particularly to me
urban burrow
I get disappointed at times for that reason. When the original writer left (This is how i understand it anyways) i felt it left a large gap. But it seems to be getting better in that regard lately
warm sequoia
I didn't know the original writer left, that certainly makes sense as to why the book of monsters feels so disconnected from the little original lore we had
Their refusal of any real supernatural things really gets on my nerves too
urban burrow
What do you mean?
warm sequoia
Cant have any real voodoo or mysticism because this is a "realistic setting"
urban burrow
oh i see
warm sequoia
all the transformations and monsters are all scienced out
I really hate that emerging trend in media
everything needs to be explained with science instead of magic
urban burrow
Yeah, i dig parts of it. But i definitely see what your saying.
warm sequoia
I certainly like some of the additions
urban burrow
I do see how sometimes if you try to go so far explaining the "science" behind it it can lose some of its mystery and allure
warm sequoia
Like the stuff with doctor reed and some of the grunt entries i really dig
stuff when they're testing the infected
but i also really dig all the little supernatural stuff that occasionally occurs, but its always passed off as nonsense
urban burrow
The meathead ones creeped me out lol
warm sequoia
Yeah i dont like everything about the meathead lore but I enjoyed reading it
But its a huge contradiction
no supernatural powers, (besides ds) but also pregnant hunter became super powerful bc reasons
urban burrow
Yeah i did not understand that part
urban burrow
I like the premise but you are right it needs touching up on the details
warm sequoia
also the fact that hunters don't die in quickplay and when they are downed they arent dead they are just hurt
it takes away the magic of what ur doing
it honestly makes it feel less unique bc instead of doing cool occult stuff to save my soul and summoning ur partners soul back into their body after death its just ur feeling kinda sick and u need supernatural steroids and ur partner got a booboo and needs a bandaid
urban burrow
I never thought of it like that
forest condor
@warm sequoia oh the hunters die in quickplay
Weather or not they were downed before the cataclysm is irrelevant
If you don't have the wellspring you're toast
warm sequoia
i know that but they arent dead before hand
its way more interesting to me in the context of dead hunters fighting for a chance at returning to fight, going with the whole rise up deadman song
and i dont remember who said this but horror seems to have a fascination with everything is hopeless we are alone unknowable eldritch horrors want our bootyhole there ccan be no hope
and those kind of stories are successful
urban burrow
I like the despair part of horror. That all odds are stacked against you and there is no hope...And then somehow you fucking scrape and claw your way out
warm sequoia
but you can do horror that isnt completley hopeless, the fear is just as ripe regardless of the hope that you have
because ur fighting such terrible monsters that can easily kill you
that should be fear enough and if it isnt i think it shows they arent really all that scary
or in warhammers case that horror isnt the main objective bc warhammer definitely falls into this category
urban burrow
warhammer is fucking frightening lol
like the thought of living in that verse is horrific
warm sequoia
its definitely one of if not the worst mainstream fictional universes to live in
but its main focus isnt on trying to frighten you, so i personally dont feel the fatigue of grim dark grim darkness
sinful trout
@warm sequoia did someone mention tHe FuCKING BUTCHER?!?
DONT EVEN GO THERE
IM SO FED UP WITH BUTCHER LORE
sinful trout
formal fractal
i'm not being serious
sinful trout
No nothing
AND ITS STUFFED WITH FUCKING COTTON
YET ISAAC FUCKING POWELL SAW "THE BUTCHERS BLOOD"
FUCKING BULLSHIT
formal fractal
do you think you are past the point of no return Var'uun?
sinful trout
EITHER POWWELL BASED HIS FUCKING CHURCH OFF OF LIES BECAUSE HES SCARED TO HUNT ALONE
OR HES FUCKING DELUSIONAL
OR
THEIR OWN LORE WAS RETCONNED
AAAAAAARRRGGGGGHHHH -
sinful trout
i hate butcher lore
forest condor
butcher could be controlled in the same way that the sculpter's controlling dogs and shiz
cause the woms inside the butcher look like pre-water water devils
almsot
earnest jungle
It's a taxidermized meat head that came back to life. As far as we know part of that resurrection restored it's organs and blood.
warm sequoia
this doesnt have basis with current butcher lore but in my ideal butcher, it is a giant mutated pig. Young Roche is doing his creepy butcher thing, plague sets in, he gets more and more deranged similar to doctor reed, corrupted by the sculptor, and eventually is devoured by his pigs, who are further corrupted and begin devouring and merging with each other until they become a large humanoid pig monster aka the butcher.
it has a basis in reality because pigs have been known to be cannibals, and has a lore basis as the spider was formed from stuff merging together
and with the quantity of dead pigs in the map the sculptor has no shortage of material to work with
amber harbor
I wonder if the sculptor influences only things with souls
like humans and to some extent dogs, as they show the most empathy
idk how voudou sees things regarding that
hybrid acorn
continues reading lore before he spouts random gibberish that was discredited
sinful trout
@earnest jungle yeah but that goes on the assumption that the sculptor can create something from nothing
forest condor
@sinful trout big brain pig move
earnest jungle
Do we know for a fact the Sculptor cannot creating something from nothing?
forest condor
He appears to be capable of using people as breeding grounds for something
earnest jungle
Or that the Sculptor didn't just turn the clay/stuffing into blood and guts?
forest condor
So maybe not something from nothing but definitely something from a completely different source
sinful trout
Its highly doubtful that he can change things that much
As the lore to the current point is not the sculptor sculpting anything really
Really hes just influencing things
forest condor
Also side note, do you think the larve in human hearts/blood and the leeches in dogs are what's controlling them?
sinful trout
Thats been the basis so far
@forest condor i think to a degree yeah, but careful as were getting close to destiny lore
earnest jungle
Well couldn't he have used the pigs guts and blood or even the blood and guts of the Taxidermist?
sinful trout
I doubt it would be a sentient god worm thing
@earnest jungle where are you getting pig?
earnest jungle
The Taxidermists was holed up in the slaughterhouse when he made the butcher.
sinful trout
Not to mention, main reason for taxadermy is reduce smell and preservation
A taxadermist would not remove something to put something else back in
And auriel daunnoy s body was recovered
So no guts from him
forest condor
I think the pig might have had something to do with it
sinful trout
Regardless. One pig and one human would not have enough innards to fill a human
forest condor
Growing a nervous system down from the pig head
sinful trout
@forest condor tell me youre kidding
forest condor
Throwing something out there
Not to mention the butcher was made in a literal slaughterhouse
There's a lot of mass there
sinful trout
Yes but he was taxadermied and sewn up
As in no guts anymore
Nada
Nothing
Cotton, clay and wood
forest condor
Wood is easially eaten away by termites and shit
Clay is a thin layer on the outside
And cotton is soft and fluffy
sinful trout
So you think the butcher is termites?
sinful trout
Retrofitted sure
But thats still so far off the current lore its not funny
Instead of our typical influencing sculptor
forest condor
We're missing a puzzle piece
earnest jungle
He speaks of pig carcasses in the plural in his journal. Pluss the Butcher's lair tends to be laired in bones right? Could be the owners of those bones are where he got the blood and guts.
forest condor
We're trying to make the louve with the foundation for the Washington monument
sinful trout
He decided to just stuff the meathead with pig innards, sit back and go "yes... This is right"
sinful trout
Auriel?
forest condor
It's possible he decided to redo it with pig shit
sinful trout
Auriel had finished the meathead in his journal
forest condor
Not actual shit ofx
sinful trout
He didnt even show signs of decay
forest condor
How much time passed between his death and completion
sinful trout
We dont have a stamp
forest condor
:(
sinful trout
We just have a fresh body of auriel
"being only recognizeable from a poorly cast glass eye"
March 31st 1995
forest condor
When did he get his glass eye?
sinful trout
Hold on
forest condor
Or does he have it throughout
forest condor
Hmm
That's a good amount of time
But also a really short amount of time
That's a confusing sentence I just wrote
Gonna check spider lore real quick brb
sinful trout
Im sorry, but to redo the meathead in anatomically correct pig guts, and to have the pig head grow a nervous system down the wooden pathways of the amature, its completely off track for the lore (not to mention rediculous, even from a gameplay perspective)
forest condor
Yeah probably
But it doesn't look like pig guts that's the thing
Notice the white worms that are across it's body
The exposed parts
sinful trout
The lore to this point, has been a dark sort of twisted feel, with the main theme being influence between the sculptors mind and the mind of its host. Causing its host to do things for it, as in morphing 12 of your party into one terrifying creature, and doing it in a scientific way to keep all of you alive.
forest condor
It looks like a more intelligent meathead
sinful trout
@forest condor and that was the whole lore ok the butcher before
A more intelligent meathead
Bam
On the head
forest condor
Oh and about the spider, those in the party were dead right?
forest condor
I can think that maybe the sculpter's influence was keeping them "alive"
Also it wasn't 12 graves, it was a pit
" dug a pit as the rain poured."
forest condor
Where did we know the amount of people?
forest condor
Ahh okay
sinful trout
Or the narrator does
forest condor
Forgot the two were connected
sinful trout
Same reed
But anyway
To this point
Lore had a science behind it
A reason for things
Reed did it because this
Hunters kill eachother for thus
Its a grim outlook on this perspective of a fame
Game*
Where the game itself is dark. But the lore is even more so a jesus christ wtf
Butcher is explained as its magic DONT WORRY ABIUT IT
And it pisses me off
sinful trout
See this great lore? BAM YOUR TEDDY BEAR IS NOW A MONSTER
Like with the logic we've been discussing. Every doll, every stuffed animal, is a possible new boss
OH SHIT THAT EXPLAINS THE DUCKS
🦆
sinful trout
It was an okay theory, but unfortunately the games current syle doesnt support it
urban burrow
DUCK BOSS CONFIRMED! YOU HEARD IT HERE FOLKS FROM VAR'UUN HIMSELF!
sinful trout
goddamn
urban burrow
😉
sinful trout
you ruin me
urban burrow
I try good sir haha
frigid heart
Fuck yea! ducky boss! it better be like an old timey yellow rubber ducky!
urban burrow
Yes I am very glad Var'uun bestowed us with this newfound knowledge 😄
I better slink away before he murders me haha
frigid heart
the real question is if it squeaks or not. OR one of its attacks it rolls over showing a hole on the bottom and it squirts you with like some nasty liquid at you!
urban burrow
lol
frigid heart
were being realistic here it would have to be something Vile. maybe like old stagnant blood and like poisons? Blood from the hunters its killed?
Maybe like the one on the left but instead of the parking meter it could be like a bomb lance? and a t3 hunter head in its mouth?
rotund ferry
There’s a bath of every hunter its killed, on which it floats on. Every slain body gets added to the pile.
frigid heart
hey thats not a bad idea.. its like a normal bath tub and the body's are all around it and its like this little hand sized ducky floating in a pool of blood and crap
rotund ferry
Seemingly harmless until you get close
frigid heart
well i mean the blood and bodies would say otherwise 😛
But i like that idea.. it would be like a hidden boss there could be a chance of it spawning. and no indicators if it did.. and it can spawn in ANY building
rotund ferry
Ammo boxes have a chance to spawn as a mimic 
urban burrow
I was scared to keep talking about it 😄
rotund ferry
Well based off of what I read before, a ventriloquist head becoming alive makes a plastic toy not that far fetched 😂
rotund ferry
sinful trout
urban burrow
lol im sorry Var do not hunt me down
sinful trout
ASSASINS WANT TO KNWO YOUR LOCATION
frigid heart
if some things are alive cause of shrugs magic anything's possible now lol
sinful trout
TRUST ME IM NOT PLEASED
urban burrow
I can see the steam rising from your ears var 😄
rotund ferry
It actually decreases the horror aspect in my eyes.
frigid heart
if your not please whom be you then?!?!
wso i read some of that butcher talk is that what the census is. is its just there magic
sinful trout
its not explainable
rotund ferry
Like... twisted, sculpted flesh vs a plastic lego man
frigid heart
Oh so its not cannon then just their theories
sinful trout
yeah
neat mica
if the butcher did not have the meathead origin, it'd probably be easier to work in
and make it more consistent with rest of lore
like if similar to the assassin, it was someone who became twisted by the sculptor's influence and became a monster
like, instead of meathead. butcher was just a big guy, maybe some Ed Gains /Leatherface type killer in life and kept a pig farm for body disposal. Maybe over time he became more and more piglike like how the assassin became more and more buggy
sinful trout
honestly
anyhthing would be better
than taxadermy
im fine with meathead
but taxadermy?
ivory stream
taxidermy is fine w me
neat mica
another option that might be less retconny, might be if the "taxidermy" is more of a matter of unreliable narrator, and not at all what happened. That it was more similar to what happens in the Oats studios "zygote" short. where some remote mining station ends up accidentally finding some form of information based life that basically propagates itself into the thoughts of people who saw it. The initial stages of which resulted in one miner figuring out how to "wire several rat brains together"
and somehow reached a point where you had some horrible limb monster trying to incorporate more bodies into itself
so maybe the taxidermist was able to somehow take a dead meathead and frankenstein in some living pig parts and get something functional somehow
sinful trout
@neat mica see
thatd be great
if we didnt have the journal of the taxadermist
whos perfectly sane by the end of it
vast tide
wooden hound
@vast tide random boxes? Sick!
frigid heart
rubber ducky head
neat mica
well yeah to do what i just said would be like a rewrite
amber harbor
Maybe the skin of the meathead was enough to make it prone to influence from the sculptor?
Seeing as it has just the original skin
sinful trout
So fluffy the dog that dear old mr smith got taxadermied is subject to change?
amber harbor
maybe it had something to do with the fact that the meathead was already in the sculptors army
we know that the grunt started spazzing out after death
noble swan
What's with the dolls?
Plenty of them sat up, seemingly the most cared for thing in the world. I found some in a wheelbarrow with a rubber duck, both clothed and sat up together. Several clothed and sat up on chairs dotted around.
Where nearly everything is abandoned and scattered and in ruins, why have these dolls been so carefully placed and clothed? Barely and dirt or damage compared to other items, and even their hats still on their heads and poses remaining. Not just one house with a loved doll, but the entire map covered in loved and undisturbed dolls.
amber harbor
thats just some eastereggs put there by some map designers as far as i know
analog cipher
So are they updating one of the books(Louisiana newspaper clippings) before release?
amber harbor
that ones getting removed
rotund ferry
there's actually one frigging scary looking doll, stuffed up on an attic of one building. you need to glitch to get up there, lol
analog cipher
Oh why is it being removed ? :(
rotund ferry
lul did someone actually open those books
umbral hearth
Yeah just found some dolls in a baby wheelchair and wanted to ask whats up with that
thick pond
I really hate the house with the „tailor“ mannequins inside, any lore to that maybe
earnest jungle
It's become very clear that since the start of the game the lore has changed several times. Which is fine. The game is still (technically) early access and they're still trying to figure out what they want the game to be.
wind saffron
Will they continue to expand lore after the release in some way?
wooden hound
The book of weapons is supposedly going to expand the lore. @wind saffron
wind saffron
Yup, I know about the book of weapons, but something beyond that? I mean, it seems that it will still be only a tidbits
wooden hound
@wind saffron New bosses might add to the lore.
sinful trout
With every creature added we should get new entries
ashen tartan
@Bort If you mean in this chat, IT WAS ME! I said horror is despairing. Or at least this game's tone is grim determination in the face of despair, and we shouldn't have a shining hope.
forest condor
@sinful trout where do you think the Hunter's ability to open portals and banish bosses comes from? Could it be that bosses are so connected to the sculpter/sculpter's world that it's as easy as that, or could it be from the initation ritual?
wooden hound
@forest condor Maybe initiation, it would be pretty useless if it were just to see the portals.
forest condor
Well initation is helpful as hell because darksight is one of the Hunter's greatest tools
More so than you see in gameplay
wooden hound
Yea, I mean it would be close to pointless to only be able to see it but not do anything, but if the ritual also allowed you to close clues, but then again you can see the enemy hunters after banishing.
forest condor
Again, sight is very important for hunters, we see in the waterdevil lore thta two hunters had their sight off for some reason and they acted like it was the worst possible occurance
wooden hound
Maybe dark sight is linked to closing portals, it would make hunting extremely difficult
forest condor
Poasibly
wooden hound
Ima read the water devil lore again, i'll be back.
@forest condor What does it mean in the lore "Dark times when the sight can't set you right?"
forest condor
Idk, but it sounds bad that their sight is turned off for some reason
amber harbor
they were sick because they had some water devils inside them
wooden hound
So brits theory may be true.
amber harbor
I think they didnt get ds as a side effect
idk tho how water devils could mess with ds
forest condor
@wooden hound the sickness was the worms
forest condor
Possibly
earnest jungle
SO that's what the purpose of the Water Devil's Are! They infect hunters and disable their ability to use the dark sight. A means by which the Sculptor can disable the hunters ability to hunt down and banish his creations.
amber harbor
but why do they get in the water then
wooden hound
@amber harbor Because they became to large to keep a host.
amber harbor
if they were to disable ds you'd think they would try to get inside hunters, either by facehugger or hiding
like if that was their main function
wooden hound
@amber harbor if someone were to get water from it it could cause it but, they're seen as a pack of smaller aquatic animals so they need water. @earnest jungle if they drank the water it could be a side effect of a singular aquatic animal.
🤔
earnest jungle
This is pure speculation on my part. But my theory is that the water devils we see in game are the adult forms of these creatures. They live in the water to reproduce, and when humans drink the water or eat the meat of creatures that ate the water the water devil's larvae get inside of them and began growing. As a side effect they disable a hunter's ability to use the dark sight before eventually killing their host.
wooden hound
Close to what I was thinking.
I believe they reproduce inside of their host to the point where there is too much for the host to contain which they then kill said host.
@earnest jungle
Then they find the nearest body of water to keep them alive.
@earnest jungle i don't think they're the adult creatures they're pack-based.
earnest jungle
If they aren't the adults I dread to think what a full sized individual water devil looks like.
wooden hound
The individual animals may be adult s but some are a different color so some may not be adults
@earnest jungle Notice when the water devil strafes it has some pink Aquatic Animals and some brown.
earnest jungle
I actually hadn't really noticed that. Mostly because whenever I see a water devil coming at me I'm almost always thinking "SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT!"
wooden hound
Well, i'n wondering HOW it gets rid of the supernatural.
@sinful trout. Any idea how it gets rid of Dark Sight?
@earnest jungle
Location isn't correct. but hey
earnest jungle
Also the bunyip is a giant Hippo-Dog monster.
urban burrow
Or is it possible dark sight can start giving false information bit that it's turned off?
Not*
wooden hound
@urban burrow maybe thats what this means.
urban burrow
Yeah that is my thought. I do not think it goes away, it seems more like it gives false information at times for some reason. Which is why it says The sight cant set us right. Not the sight has stopped working or something to that effect
urban burrow
Yeah, that could also be an example of misinformation, So ya i agree both could be possible
ashen tartan
If Brit's theory has weight then are we saying that the worms basically sucked up their initiation mojo? I don't think the sickness comes from not having the dark sight, I think that's from the worms.
Actually based on what y'all just said I think that's it. Worms ate the mojo.
wooden hound
@ashen tartan Yea, we discussed brits theory and how it might be true.
brave topaz
Oh, cool my theory
wooden hound
Yeah, we're proving it while working on our own.
brave topaz
Yeah it's interesting, it seems that most of the creatures that develop fed on the blood develop symbiotic relationships with their hosts
ashen tartan
I don't think the sight gives false information. The lack of sight could easily be seen as "not setting us right."
Like if you have no cell service so your GPS tool stops working. It isn't giving bad information, it just stopped, so you're now lost.
urban burrow
It can, but the lack of sight in that situation could also very well be misinformation as in allowing them to think they are alone. When they were clearly not
wooden hound
@ashen tartan thats what ive been saying. But it could mean both.
urban burrow
The ability to use ones dark sight against them I think is very valid
brave topaz
Proxy i believe the extract is referring to the fact that the swamps they were situated at were empty
ashen tartan
I don't think "being alone" meant monsters and such. DS doesn't show them anyway. They're simply saying they couldn't hear anyone else and figured they were alone. Unless the lack of hunters was supposed to mean there were no bosses and no sign in DS seemed to confirm it, but that was wrong?
brave topaz
or so the hunters believed due to the lack of human activity by their perception
ashen tartan
They obviously heard a hive so when they say "alone" they aren't speaking of mobs. Gotta mean people or bosses.
urban burrow
Also GPS does not rely on cell service. It relies on connection to the satellite. Satellite receivers are built into all smart phones these days 😄 (Off topic i know )
wooden hound
@ashen tartan the water devil is inside both of them or at least one, possibly from drinking from a river with a small aquatic animal, thats what it means.
sinful trout
Afk for another couple hours. Ill be able to respond soon
urban burrow
Also padre how does them hearing the hive change them possibly getting misinformation?
ashen tartan
I was trying to stay brand neutral >=|
Google maps ain't GPS. No cell service means I'm lost af.
Proxy, it doesn't necessarily. The problem is we don't know what they mean by "alone."
- They know hives are around.
- They don't hear any gunshots or humans.
- They don't see any sparklies in the dark vision
- They think they're "alone."
urban burrow
Actually if its downloaded onto your phone no it does not require cell service 😄 I have google maps on my sons "play phone" and he does the gps constantly with it playing 😄
brave topaz
No proxy, what the entry is establishing is that the two hunters believed they were of no danger of encountering other hunters, not due to the sight not working but due to the lack of human action in the swamps
when in fact they were being watched
ashen tartan
Maybe the new versions. A couple years ago I was inna cuntreh making my way across states and when I lost cell service my navigation app stopped working.
urban burrow
I disagree it clearly states. But that day when they moved into the sight the landscape was bleak and empty they could not catch a trail of their quarry...That could very well be misinformation or dark sight not working
ashen tartan
My point being, when your navigation tool "doesn't set you right," that could just mean it stopped working, not that it gives bad intel.
ashen tartan
That's not what was said though.
urban burrow
It doesnt say it was gone either
brave topaz
Ok proxy, that sentence means "When we entered dark sight we could not find any clues"
forest condor
Looking back it just looks like they didn't have any more dsb :p
urban burrow
Exactly brit
forest condor
Coudnt see the hunters stalking them
ashen tartan
"Dark times when the Sight can't set us right."
not
"Dark times when the Sight sets us wrong." or leads astray or what have you.
sinful trout
... theres alot thats been commented... This is going to be some reading later
urban burrow
The wording can be taken either way
ashen tartan
It sets you nothing.
forest condor
I think it just means there's none of the sculpter's influence visible in darksight
No landmarks
brave topaz
Proxy, hunters rely on dark sight to locate their clues, it's not that they have been misdirected, it's that their navigational errors cannot be corrected using the sight
ashen tartan
If you ask me for directions and I don't say anything and then you go get lost, did I lead you astray?
wooden hound
I didn't expect it to become controversial.
forest condor
Who knows, maybe the AHA has special markers for hunters trying to find their way back
@random lava
Do thing
Ban boye
ashen tartan
AHA issue bread crumbs.
urban burrow
How do you know that brit. It does not state that anywhere. It simply said it did not set them right. Which it normally does. This can be taken as it gave them bad information or that it simply was not working
ashen tartan
It does say that it just didn't show them anything.
forest condor
@brave topaz not just clues
ashen tartan
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/370142302196334593/613477012903952384/1566334695760.png
"The landscape was bleak and empty." Not "The landscape was littered with bad information."
urban burrow
That does not mean it was not working. I would assume if there is no sculptor influence around the dark sight would look the same as it did that day. Which means it could also be getting misinformation
forest condor
theory time, the AHA uses items that react with darksight as markers for hunters to find a way back to cities, somehow those two hunters coudnt find those anymore and became lost
I mean bolt seer exists
brave topaz
Either way there is some correlation between the lack of dark sight's functionality and the presence of the worms
ashen tartan
Is it confirmed that AHA can make items imbued with the sculptor's power?
urban burrow
I still disagree that is a clear sign of the dark sight not functioning....Maybe not functioning properly. But not 100% not functioning. I can see both ways
But ill move on, 😄
wooden hound
Can we move on? Either way its still misinformation
wooden hound
Oh thank the lord
ashen tartan
I don't know how to do that fancy thing Arpy does, but perhaps they couldn't see the clues because they had the worms inside them effectively blinding them. Kind of like how when you have a bounty you can see lightning EVERYWHERE because it's actually coming from you and is all around you?
For a long time I thought the lightning was the remaining hunters in the distance.
urban burrow
Or perhaps an entity wanted them to be caught so it used their dark sight to lull them into false confidence?
wooden hound
Well if its not showing the stuff that is there it is misinformation but if it doesnt show it correctly it still misinformation.
ashen tartan
Again, I disagree that not showing something is the same as misinformation, but now we're arguing philosophy and semantics.
brave topaz
Either way there's no point in arguing over the specifics of their affliction, only what it is effecting and why
wooden hound
@urban burrow @ashen tartan I believe the way they made it into the hunters system is by gathering water from a river with a Aquaticc animal.
brave topaz
Firstly, there's a correlation between the presence of parasitic worms in the bodies of the two hunters and dark sight not working
wooden hound
As in singular water devil.
brave topaz
this contrasts with the meathead entries as the presence of a vessel fed off of the blood empowered the host
urban burrow
Yeah i can see that as well. Not saying anything was wrong. Just offering another point of view is all 😄 One thing i have learned the new writers love to contradict themselves so who knows
wooden hound
Cant wait to get debunked.
ashen tartan
Someone said a couple days ago they ate some bad meat with worms in it.
wooden hound
Actually I think they need water to survive.
forest condor
that's what it says
ashen tartan
Brit's original theory was that the worms were just regular worms and the Hunter blood changed them.
forest condor
honestly it's highly likely
and maybe they got into the blood and starterd leeching the sight away from them
brave topaz
Exactly
ashen tartan
Are we SURE they have to live in water? Yes, we only see them in water, but we also see them fuckin jetski across it to attack. Maybe they stay there since its the easiest way for them to move around, while on land they'd move like... worms.....
brave topaz
Another thing to consider is that the devil's growth was possibly halted because the host was killed
ashen tartan
"Oh no, a man eating worm! On land...." step
brave topaz
and this subsequently caused a violent reaction in the second host
wooden hound
And reproduced inside the host to the point where it and became too large and then kills said host.
brave topaz
Not exactly
We're not sure if the worms inside the second host killed him because they grew too large
ashen tartan
Did it actually kill the host? I thought the hunters were cut open by someone else.
brave topaz
or if somehow they felt the threat to their host and "took the first move"
the second host was killed by the worms
wooden hound
@ashen tartan the worms made it to the heart it says.
brave topaz
we don't know how the Devils work exactly, potentially they could've grown inside the host to a greater degree, or the two hunters that killed our hosts were unlucky enough to encounter them in their final stages
wooden hound
Ii just reread.
brave topaz
But as the article describes, the devils only changed when exposed
then the second host erupted shortly after
brave topaz
Yep
So there's a few things this presents to us, Firstly, my theory that the blood causes a malevolent change in the creature that consumes it essentially supercharging them
Secondly the devils are possibly telepathically linked, as shown by the second host's expiration
or linked by some other presence
wooden hound
Like the sculptor
brave topaz
yes
Third, it is very, very likely that the devils that were exposed were NOT in the final stages of growth
urban burrow
Also makes me want Gators even more lol
wooden hound
It would fit lore.
brave topaz
i honestly get the feeling that one of the future bosses could possibly be an oversized water devil that did reach maturity
urban burrow
Would it still be confined to water Brit? Or would it mutate to be land based?
brave topaz
Well we know the devils can survive on land
wooden hound
Im thinking like a gator with water devil
brave topaz
if they are indeed parasitic worms, perhaps they thrive in the water but they can live on land
urban burrow
Yeah my things like that normally don't perform as well in land was my thought and a water boss would be cool just not sure how it would work within the game. But we do have examples in the real world of creatures growing legs as they mature to a more land based style of living
Thoughts bit things
brave topaz
it's not that it'd grow legs, the bayou is shallow as we've all seen
urban burrow
Sorry trying to participate on my phone lol
brave topaz
it'd continue to crawl and writhe, it'd be interesting for a serpentine boss
urban burrow
Yeah I just do not see water devil's being very maneuverable and or intimidating on land
Bit it could work if done right
brave topaz
perhaps not, but i imagine a sizeable one like one shown in the concept art could move at least as fast as the butcher
and would certainly cause hell if it were to get a hold of a hunter
urban burrow
Yeah could work I think it being a water bases boss could be cool tho move away from all bosses Being locked in a building
brave topaz
i think it could work even restricted to the interior
a water boss, while interesting would be impractical considering there simply isn't enough space for one to exist
and the arenas leave the combatants exposed
and it can be cheesed with any place above water level
either way
lore channel
I'm not an expert and the "oversized waterdevil" boss would be cool, but likely an impossibility
urban burrow
What do you mean there isnt enough space for it to exist?
But ya either way, I think both could be really cool if implemented correctly.
Would like a good roaming boss to be incorporated also, and could really fit the lore well
brave topaz
I think that roaming monsters unrestricted to arenas would be a huge pain in the arse
and kill A LOT of hunters
brave topaz
maybe an alternate mode, but i doubt the devs would put one in bounty hunt
urban burrow
Nah no alternate mode. Just a well implemented roaming boss would be fine. And i think it fits the lore better then say the butcher lol
brave topaz
well the butcher is janky, a taxidermized corpse that bleeds and squeals like a pig
already been discussed
urban burrow
I more or less meant the lore behind it
But ya its already been discussed. Lets rehash it. They need to just retcon its lore and start over 😄
ashen tartan
How would the clue system work with a roaming boss though?
brave topaz
/\
ashen tartan
You'd have to have a moving circle on the map.
Or let us track it through dark sight.
urban burrow
That would be how i did it
you would track it thru darksight once you got all the clues
ashen tartan
The second one is cool, the first one would be silly since the maps are crossed out by hand.
urban burrow
I really want a rework of the butcher lore tho. After re-reading it all after seeing the discussion here it just drives me fucking nuts
forest condor
var's going nuts