#insync
#lore-discussion
sinful trout
full fog
already read that, thanks tho @late tinsel
forest condor
that's a basic step into it, from there go onto the website and check out the lore snippits there
late tinsel
No prob. There’s quite a bit to take away from that. Did an in-depth analysis for my own notes and drew attention to its mention of the religious factions in the AHA about a week ago, then the new lore dropped on the immolator talks about them again.
It pays to read and reread the lore posts. Always something you’ve missed in there.
For now, that’s about the limit of QP lore.
Picked that article clean and I can’t find Wellspring lore anywhere else. We know the WS rifts are similar to, but different from the corrupt rifts, which might imply the WS is from somewhere else. We really don’t know.
full fog
how do you know they exist then?
late tinsel
@full fog that’s classified.
full fog
haha okay then
forest condor
nah, some lore devs mentioned it and no nobody knows where it went
full fog
interesting
late tinsel
Ye. I didn’t even know about them before this week.
sinful trout
@full fog anyway keep up the theorizing! Its a healthy addition to lore! Also gets us a new perspective
late tinsel
New perspectives and theories are always welcome. Gotta stir the pan to find flakes of gold at the bottom.
forest condor
@twilit torrent
late tinsel
@twilit torrent 🦆🦆🦆
Interesting to see the religious chapters noted again in the immolator lore. Wonder what they actually believe in regards to the immolator itself.
forest condor
HMMMM RELIGION!?!?!?!?!?!?
sinful trout
@twilit torrent i did out of pure disapointment
@forest condor SAY IT ISNT SO
Also yeah. It would be interesting to know what they were talking about
But for now looks like theory paid off. Since its probable the "mortician" we'll call him, seems to refer to religions as a "they" sort of thing. I think its safe to assume he is also like huff and abstaining from religious shit
late tinsel
Well, when you’re a scientist and you’re observing this screaming fire monster... yeah, probably a little jaded on religion.
sinful trout
Hahahaha
Very valid point
Hell i just hope we get more lore on the cabin
Thatd be dope
Bc i feel like there would be like specific rules and shit
Almost like the continental from john wick
late tinsel
But, something about what “they” talk about so whatever the religious ones say, he seems to be inclined to believe they have merit.
sinful trout
Hell who knows
late tinsel
Um, kinda? He mentions some fights spill over from the hunts
sinful trout
Oh shit
late tinsel
I think he implies hunters have killed each other in the cabin.
late tinsel
Yeah probably
sinful trout
I only skimmed cabin lore
late tinsel
It’s more fun than I thought it would be. Almost deadpan humor.
“Gotta get some eggs.”
It also gives you a better idea that something pretty bad is going on in the asylum.
sinful trout
Well if they pulled finch from it saying hed be of more use at the asylum
Idk i almost feel as if finch is our mortician
late tinsel
I’m not certain. He mentions skills he can put to some use, but we have other hunters who are better at observing monsters, including one that’s essentially written a bestiary.
Also, to answer a question I saw earlier. The AHA has existed hundreds of years and had many different names.
It’s an OLD organization.
sinful trout
Yeah^
Also youre refrerring to harold black? Or the guy whos name starts with an s
Scagnamillio
Thats it
late tinsel
Can’t remember the name off the top of my head. I just remember he’s damn good at observing monster behavior and phenomena.
Yeah
sinful trout
I did get confirmation that were getting more lore on different origen hunters so that the community gets a better picture on how wide scale this shit actually is so ill be pumped for thay
That
late tinsel
NICE. I’m ready for some revelations on how they function and who does what.
sinful trout
See weve already gotten a lot of ominous shit from the harami so i feel like they wont bring up their stuff for a while snd just sibtly slip in other orginizations to keep us looking in different directions
late tinsel
Lol now the red herrings begin
sinful trout
Yep
late tinsel
I’d be really interested to know if the Sinners use DS like ASA hunters, or if they use other means to track beasts. They certainly seem to believe they’re already damned.
Would be neat to see hunters from different organizations in the game.
sinful trout
It would because maybe some orginizations have access to it but dont use it because of its self destructive effects
I mean i personally enjoy going a game without using it and just listening to the singing that a clue does when you get closer
lofty olive
@twilit torrent
random lava
@lofty olive please don't tag people randomly when they ask not to be tagged
slim hatch
@random lava Okay 😃
amber harbor
Did anyone decypher the language before the titles in the immolator video?
late tinsel
It’s voynich. Translates into the English text in the trailer. @amber harbor
late tinsel
If you’re looking to squeeze some lore out of the video, the description on YouTube has some interesting details in it.
sinful trout
^
forest condor
Including a vague reference to religious segments of hunters being right when talking about immolaters
forest condor
It would be delusional to completely write that hint off
late tinsel
Been doing some thinking about a conversation we had about Jones being a powerful hunter. When we last brought it up, we pretty much concluded Jones was powerful because he’s our guy-in-the-chair. Despite it being easy to assume a meek doctor is more suited for a desk job, there’s a few things I want to point out.
The AHA is an organization that’s hundreds of years old. Its traditions and structure go way back. It’s also pretty obvious at this point he’s been initiated into the AHA from the ground up- taking the night oath and everything. I doubt a doctor that hardly or never saw any action would become the director. Add to that several journal posts in the Louvent book where a hunter says this hunt is his chance to impress Huff and you’ve got someone who commands great respect. The same can be said about Finch’s journal, where he unquestioningly aids Jones however he asks- noting Jones is pulling the strings.
The Sinners also clue us in that the Louisiana AHA has 40 cards of the True Deck. Considering the reverence and import the deck seems to have, this must be a pretty big deal for hunters, and Jones somehow came by that many cards..
It’s clear by his past as a doctor, his studious and agnostic approach to the Louvent, his “this may save many lives” philosophy, as well as his secretive research in the asylum, that he is still a doctor and very intelligent. This extends to him even denying that the True Deck has power, despite knowing there’s something real about the power it holds. But how does a meek doctor command so much respect, have authority to award parts of the True Deck, and climb to directorship of the AHA, an organization centered around hunting monsters?
Look at the pistol on his desk. He is both doctor and Hunter. Apparently hunter enough to take a top seat.
sinful trout
Oh yeah i doubt hes just a doctor. Its more likely that he was a legendary hunter that got into politics
late tinsel
I agree completely. His initiation letter for new hunters also indicates he knows very well the hardships of a hunter.
sinful trout
Yeah i vaguely remember this conversation
late tinsel
Ye. It ended with most people simply writing off his reputation and power being the AHA director. I think he does command a lot of power as AHA director, but he’s probably a very experienced hunter and likely very good at it as well.
sinful trout
But then again you lose skills after being behind a desk for so long
So i doubt hes still really good at hunting
late tinsel
True. I think he’s bearing the responsibility of trying to bring this Hunt to an end, so it’s unlikely he’d ever go into the field. His past is pretty shadowy, but there’s quite a few hints he’s a well known hunter, and probably did something pretty impressive to get where he is.
He’s basically Gordon Freeman.
sinful trout
Liam neeson
forest condor
Qui gon jin
late tinsel
Phillip Huff Jones discovers the Sculptor’s lair. (c.1895 colorized)
Jokes aside, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jones was involved in the first Louvent.
forest condor
Sundering?
slim hatch
Highly unlikely considering he would probably have to be immortal.
Sundering based on lack of any mentions of it in recent days (Aka closer to 1895) occurred fairly long ago.
Else it would probably be all over the place.
Unless Huff is immortal I've high doubts.
forest condor
He appears to be a high level hunter, maybe he has a few wellsprings under his belt, maybe it can heal
Age
slim hatch
Haven't seen any indication of that so I'd go a pass on it until we have any indication of such. Only thing we know he is a big cat
late tinsel
I’d imagine the Sundering was quite awhile back and maybe was the event that established a need for hunters, but all that is speculation.
The first Louvent was in like... 1886 I think? I don’t think Huff is immortal, but I DID wonder if he found a Wellspring in his past work.
forest condor
It goes to reason that a high level hunter would be the one to lead the AHA itself, and if he wants to have some sort of longevity he would need to grab a wellspring. It would make sense
Also maybe that's why huff wants the wellspring hunters, maybe he can use them for something, who knows
late tinsel
hm.... 🅱️erhaps.
Took a look at the blog post and stat thing Jones writes about for the anniversary. Doesn’t look like there’s any lore hidden there. The Latin was interesting though. Translates to something like ”Courage grows strong at a wound.”
It’s the Stewart clan motto.
forest condor
Interesting
What's the exact larin phrase? I can @ a guy who kinda knows what it is
Actually, dosregard
Disregard
late tinsel
terse summit
does anyone know why i my matches are always empty?
forest condor
@terse summit because you bitch in the wrong channel, frick the heck off
terse summit
ok sorry and ty for your help
forest condor
Just don't complain in the lore chats and we're good
terse summit
ok
proper cradle
@forest condor how about you be respectful instead?
forest condor
@proper cradle because I have to constantly tell people to check the name of the chat they're in, and this isn't the default chat so people coming in here to complain about this stuff are looking for attention
It's annoying and gets in the way or lore discussions, it's inconsiderate and just rude
terse summit
@proper cradle it's fine, doesn't need any trouble
wispy dome
Hey guys, i am new to the hunt lore. I have read all the pinned messages and the word docs, and would like to continue. Where do i get all the lore, organized?
late tinsel
@wispy dome You can get pretty much everything from the main site. Unfortunately, some things are a bit more obscure and require some searching to find. Anything in particular you’re interested in?
https://www.huntshowdown.com/news
late tinsel
Ah, same. We can tell you a few things. The AHA is very old, been around for hundreds of years under different names. Most of what we have on DS, the ritual for it, and the Sculptor, is in the docs.
Rifts have 2 different types, I’m sure you’ve seen that in the docs. Somebody has traversed them. And that’s about it. Lore is very sparse atm, but I’m suspecting a lot of it is being saved for the last stretch toward 1.0.
At least, probably in terms of key players and stuff. We have a lot of story stuff right now, but little detail on key figures.
forest condor
We know Huff is the director of the AHA although his background is extreamly fuzzy
late tinsel
There’s an account of a hunter using DS on the site. Seems like we temporarily merge minds with the monsters when tapping into the final clue.
forest condor
more like we see through their eyes, you've bene out resident voodoo expert, see if there's anything related to seeing through a loa's eyes
late tinsel
Yeah I’ll check into it.
slim hatch
Seeing through monsters eyes is a reference to early Dark Sight also tip always post source.
https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/dark-awaits This is the one you're referring to maybe?
sinful trout
Yeah thats what hes reffering to @slim hatch still check about the loa like our main boy arpy suggested
@late tinsel
slim hatch
Yeah basically old Clue taking sorry not DS but Clue taking would briefly let you see through boss'es eyes.
It was removed before 0.100
late tinsel
Honestly that sounds dope af
slim hatch
They removed it because you were vulnerable during flash
late tinsel
But not all practical for a shooter ye.
late tinsel
Yeah I saw the part with spider. Dual wielding too lol
Also @sinful trout I’m hacking into the voodoo mainframe as we speak. I’ll let you know soon. Keep in mind voodoo has a ton of offshoot cults that all have their own wild lore, but I can probably narrow it down.
late tinsel
🤷♂️ writing up a paper on hoodoo in New Orleans for studies in 1800’s American history. Gotta look it up anyway.
forest condor
i got a big question, could you see if people were fighting the boss when you looked throguh it's eyes?
slim hatch
Can't tell you the vision was removed in pre 0.100 Dev build there are no players who have seen it in actions but probably you did
0.100 was the first version released to players
Everything before that was internal
forest condor
ahh okay
late tinsel
So here’s what I turned up. Some voodoo sects believe it’s possible for black magic users (these are not usually priests or priestesses) to possess another human being. Now, bear in mind the Dark Awaits entry describes the experience as if he’s touching his own face when he’s the spider. I don’t think he’s seeing through the spirit’s eyes, but through the human trapped inside it. We know that some degree of the people being corrupted are still in there, so that idea might definitely hold some water.
Another interesting fact is that some practitioners believe the loa or lwa are so powerful, that they can literally reanimate corpses as their vessels.
inhales
BOI
@forest condor
@sinful trout
Edited multiple times because of dyslexia.
If we follow the logic here, we know Hunters aren’t using Christian rituals and often note what they do is wicked. Voodoo & Haitian Creole is something many Hunters seem to have some familiarity with. If Hunters are using black magic or some variant of it to temporarily tap into the body of their prey, then it’s possible it’s derived from the concepts described above. If that’s true, then it further advances the implications voodoo played/plays an enormous role in the Louvent and possibly Hunter abilities.
Bonus post for the religious Hunters: Voodoo is a religion, not a superstition.
forest condor
Maybe this is what we were missing in the first newsletter
late tinsel
I’m doubtful all that was in the early stuff, but unless a dev jumps in here and shoots it down, I think there’s a strong argument to be made in terms of theory. I don’t think voodoo is necessarily the key to everything, but some component is. Marie Laveau being aware of the other world and possibly having DS, as well as Jones taking her seriously testifies to that. Maybe the AHA has simply distilled the functionality of the rituals from the religion.
forest condor
so get rid of the faith portion and delve deep into the "real" aspects?
late tinsel
Essentially, yes.
late tinsel
There are tons of healing rituals, but I think we’d be barking up the wrong tree for that one. I’ll look around, but I haven’t seen anything that looks similar.
forest condor
okay, that's probably from the brains of the devs then
sinful trout
@late tinsel why is your name not followed by "Voodoo expert
forest condor
@late tinsel make it voodoo practitioner
late tinsel
I just study it for historical and anthropological interests. This one is probably more suitable. 😉
late tinsel
I also wanna bring up something in my research that I found interesting. There are a metric ton of lwa or loa. Each of them represent an aspect of the world, life and death, reality, time, all that good stuff. Interestingly enough, that kinda gave me the idea that Esse's thing about aspects might be somewhat applicable here, so I dug in a bit- don't really have time to go through them all. The most curious thing about loa is that some of them actually travel in groups or pairs. For example, the loa representing thunder and lightning always travel and appear together. I didn't stumble across anything that led me to believe these spirits were one and the same as the entities we're encountering, but it's not a far cry to imagine they might've been a source of inspiration or mistaken as such by practitioners in the Huntverse.
If we were to draw comparisons to the entities and the loa, I'd say that suggesting multiple entities were at play in the Louvent would mean we've got several beings representing multiple aspects, not necessarily of one or complementing aspects, milling about.
But then again, that's just me trying to apply a theory to a theory.
Since I've basically been scraping the barrel for clues these last few days, I went back and looked at the Golden Age demo for the original Hunt game. In the video, they mention that the hillbilly monsters they're fighting are hopped up on voodoo. If my theory is correct, I suspect they kept a lot of that in the lore as the origins of the Louvent. All things considered- until lore states otherwise- I'm pretty confident voodoo's what set off the second Louvent.
With how wild and unusual the event is, I'm probably way off and completely wrong. But the similarities in what we see in game lore and what I've been reading are eerily similar. The nods to voodoo and its role in the lore have been demanding a closer look, so I figured I'd see what I could find. Whether or not it's been fruitful, I can't really say until we have more confirmation.
Either way I know a bunch of crazy ass occult stuff and eldritch knowledge now.
@sinful trout has Ogoun been mentioned before in the lore? I feel like he has, but my memory is a little fuzzy.
late tinsel
Regarding the immolator, I reviewed some footage a buddy managed to capture before test servers went down while I was at work. From the observations he made, there’s not much lore to be gained from the creature in game. It’s basically a really fast grunt that only explodes and does exactly what the devs say it’s capable of once the skin is pierced. It’ll knock in doors even if it isn’t on fire. Didn’t get to see too much idle animation, but didn’t hear or see anything special that would clue us in on something we don’t already know about it.
This concludes my late night essay.
sinful trout
@late tinsel ohfuck yeah ogoun has been mentioned a bunch
late tinsel
Okay. Ogoun is a very well known loa, especially in Haitian voodoo. This comes out of The Divine Horseman by Maya Deren
Ogoun is the traditional warrior figure in Dahomehan religion. He is quite similar to the spirit Zeus in Greek religion/mythology. As such Ogoun is mighty, powerful, triumphal. In more recent time Ogoun has taken on a new face which is not quite related to his African roots. This is the crafty and powerful political leader. This political warrior points to where struggle is in modern Haiti.
He gives strength through prophecy and magic. It is Ogoun who is said to have planted the idea, led and given power to the slaves for the revolution and consequent freedom of 1804. He is called now to help people obtain a government more responsible to their needs.
Ogoun comes to mount people in various aspects of his character, and the people are quite familiar with each of them. Some of these aspects are: Ogoun the wounded warrior. Here he assumes a Christ-figure pose which the people know well from their Christian associations. As Ogoun Feraille he gives strength to the servitors by slapping them on the thighs or back. As Ogoun Badagris he may lift a person up and carry him or her around to indicate his special attention and patronage. To all the aspects of Ogoun there is the dominant theme of power and militancy.
His possessions can sometimes be violent. Those mounted by him are known to wash their hands in flaming rum without suffering from it later. They dress up in red wave a sabre or machete, chew a cigar and demand rum in an old phrase "Gren mwe fret" (my testicles are cold).
Often this rum is poured on the ground then lit and the fumes pervade the peristyle. The sword, or much more commonly, the machete is his weapon and he often does strange feats of poking himself with it, or even sticking the handle in the ground, then mounting the blade without piercing his skin.
Ogoun is identified with St. Jacques, the warrior general, and is often in the guise of a revolutionary war general.
A lot of Haitians prayed to him during the Haitian Revolution.
late tinsel
@sinful trout would you mind shooting me the texts where he’s mentioned? I couldn’t seem to find them. Then again, I’m on mobile today.
late tinsel
The translations are pretty much...
"The body of Ogou Feray is covered with knives,
The body of Ogou Feray is covered with machetes."
The reason Ogoun was so worshiped in the Haitian Revolution was because his body is supposedly covered in steel, making him and those he blesses impervious to bullets or knives. Veves are also integral to various rituals in the faith. So all of that continues to beg the question: why does the AHA take voodoo so seriously, and why do they have a voodoo artifact on the AHA director's desk?
Jones seems to largely be a man of science and this seems like one of the strangest objects on his desk.
Why is he so familiar with Ogoun and the Haitian Creole that references one of his representations?
The answer is simple, Lore Hunters.
This will be revealed at a later date.
sinful trout
GOD FUCKING DAMNIT (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
fr tho back in HS i was obsessed with Ogoun Feray
even bought a ring with his veve
late tinsel
To recap what we've learned from the past few days of delving into Haitian Voodoo..
-The AHA has some kind of interest in voodoo, going so far as to have artifacts and going to consult with a prominent voodoo practitioner.
-Ogoun has been referenced by Jones, who shows some familiarity with the loa and has Ogoun's veve on his desk. Veves are used in voodoo rituals.
-Voodoo practitioners may be able to see into the other worlds, possibly use DS. For some reason, the AHA believes this as well.
-The presence of the witch's bridles in game suggest voodoo was being practiced and punished in the bayou.
-The loa and the entities at play in the Hunt share some significant similarities. This could be the inspiration for the entities at play and possibly explain why Esse's theory of aspects was "close". The entities are almost certainly not loa, however.
Anything else I'm forgetting? Trying to stick to solid stuff.
@forest condor
@sinful trout
sinful trout
not that ive seen
hunt verse and folk magic/religion play a large role in the huntverse
late tinsel
Do we have any in-depth details about the Rittmeister letter in the Louvent book? Any idea who the Löwenschild Regiment was or who the Rittmeister is?
A rittmeister was generally a "cavalry master", and his letter seems to be speaking to a lord of some kind.
<@&456385804353142794> y'all ever look into this? All I could find was the Rittmeister's name in the character doc.
burnt storm
Don't recall us discussing it but I wasn't active here all the time to be honest so I'm not really the one to know for sure
late tinsel
No probo. Just wanted to see if the letter was peeled apart and if anyone squeezed out anything juicy that I missed.
late tinsel
Löwenschild translates to "lion shield", but I have very little else to add. Lions were used in some German heraldry.
forest condor
Am I the only one who forgot the in-game book existed?
late tinsel
I completely forgot about it after I read it the first few times, but picked it apart after finding out the letter from Jones was a response to the one on his desk from Marie Laveau- which kickstarted my previous investigation.
I wasn't ever aware of the Rittmeister Letter's content until I started browsing through wiki pages today and saw the translation.
Either way, it seems like some German lord has a stake in the Hunt. The Löwenschild Regiment and the stolen regimental journal seem to be incredibly important objectives for the Rittmeister and his lord.
Also, the Rittmeister notes he has an encounter with a freaking dragon that set him on the trail to the Louvent. WHAT.
Is that literal? Allegorical? Unreliable narration?
slim hatch
@late tinsel a lot of talk no references to core lore pieces can’t give an answer, okay you looked into general voodoo some stuff is even a good catch but without hunt verse lore referencing anything of that sort it’s equal to finding needle in a haystack
Point being I don’t know what you guys are atm on about I don’t know what lore material are you pushing off of thus I can’t give an answer, it 5 am I should be sleeping
late tinsel
Almost everything I posted on the recap can be followed to a source in the lore or what we see in game, save the theory on aspects. I condensed everything I've been posting about down to those points because they're the only ones that have any real solid ground. Desk of a Hunter, the Jones-Laveau letters, witch's bridles in game. Those are very important nods, despite there being very little to them, which is why my recap declares very little but notes some interesting finds.
The current topic is the Rittmeister letter in the Louvent book in game. Possible German players in the lore. Trying to discern if anyone's taken a closer look at it.
@slim hatch
But ye, go sleep.
That's sort of important.
slim hatch
Germany was long ago confirmed to be at play same as Russia derived from existence of Dolch, Avto and Mosin none of which were openly traded in US in 1895 about lost Regiment was classified as flair story due to lack of strong sides if I recall released as part of lawson tease background
I hope with face in the pillow I didn’t mix anything up but should be the gist of it
We can look into it in depth a bit later just pm me your activity hours so i can plan accordingly
Or I’ll just tag you when up @late tinsel
forest condor
The dolch, avto, and mosin, and nagant 1895, were imports from caldwell
slim hatch
Time era period had no gun trade between 3 nations and Caldwell seems to be tied to US
late tinsel
Either's fine, @slim hatch. My active hours are really scattered depending on how much HOT BEAN JUICE I consume.
late tinsel
Well, we know that Caldwell definitely modifies firearms. He might find someone to bring some foreign models in to modify himself. Avtomat and Officer Brawler come to mind, but that's speculation. It does make sense that these guns would come from hunters that originate in the firearms' respective countries.
forest condor
read the caldwell letter
that was a discussion that occured a long time ago and it's best just to read it
weak elbow
Do we have some sort of google document or something where we can find all the written lore
?
slim hatch
Pinned
weak elbow
Cheers
slim hatch
@late tinsel Technically i'm here will be pre-occupied in 1.5h
late tinsel
Now it is I who is up at 4:27am writing essays on socio-economic status and wishing I was face-down in bed. But I'm down to talk lore in between paragraphs. lol
slim hatch
Nah man it seems like it's for education so do that we can talk later
I'll be available for the next 12+h
late tinsel
Oh it's all good. It's like, a 20 page all semester kind of thing. Just crunching in some hours because I drank a pot of coffee for god knows why.
slim hatch
What's your focus field? Based on you coffee consumption you would do great in DEV 😄
late tinsel
lmao History/PolSci. Wish I could do dev stuff, but I flat out don't have the patience for coding. Hated compsci with a passion, but creative writing courses and lectures were right up my alley.
Thought about doing anthropology for awhile, but nothing like that is offered around me. Texas demands I become a geologist or GTFO. (yeehaw)
slim hatch
I chose dev... AS great mentor told me when i was frustrated with all the problems that need solving "We chose problems as our career" stuck with me. Your day consists of logical analysis, coding, system design and explaining to people why hard-coding magic numbers isn't something that will benefit the business long term.
late tinsel
That may true and I see much wisdom in there, but jfc if I ever have to identify where I missed a semi-colon again, my head will explode.
slim hatch
Semi-colon here is a nightmare fuel, i once had to patch a legacy code that was losing company well about 10,000,000 a year. Went into logical selector and there was Lambda within Lambda within lambda after 3 days of staring on 2nd day i asked 2 devs to also join me because i thought I was just being an idiot on 3rd day i saw it....
instead of >=
That little error in the chain of lambdas within lambdas was costing company the 7 figures
late tinsel
OOF. And I thought I had a tough time with my best bud messing with me by inserting an extra semi-colon into my code while I was afk.
slim hatch
Well nowdays most IDE's will highlight the problem for you so that pain is in the past, still occurs but easy to fix.
late tinsel
Oh yeah, I forgot we were in the future. Kids these days will never know the struggle.
slim hatch
Scripting Lua in notepad.... good ol' days
late tinsel
Hey, I still do that sometime for games like Starbound lmao
slim hatch
I mean you still use it sometimes when you need to make a quick adjustment in some 3rd party script but not too common also I think we should take it to DMs or #off-topic we are derailing a bit
late tinsel
Truuuueeee.
random lava
slim hatch
@random lava You're late for the party back to the cave
forest condor
Did you guys read the Caldwell letter yet?
late tinsel
I did boi
late tinsel
Arpy is referring to the Caldwell letter to Jone regarding weapons and how he likes making variants.
slim hatch
Also just a note
Caldwell is Colt
Dolch is Mauser
Mosin is Mosin
Open the link there are 2 letters there
late tinsel
Dang I have to tap my phone
Yeah that’s the one.
Also
“The Berlin Public Library is located in Massachusetts.”
I did not realize this.
slim hatch
Problem is
Well okay not a problem
Few things to clarify first
- There are many AHA like organizations around the world.
- AHA and all others one aren't subsidiaries of one global organization.
- The organizations do communicate.
- Caldwell is a manufacturer (Colt) in which case no other manufacturer would hand out their own designs to them.
- Key point being russian weaponry like Nagant and Mosin.
- European and Asian weapons probably reached AHA via the ties between hunter organizations.
- Caldwell being in play with Huff obviously got to look and tinker with them (probably) or those are experimental versions from representative organizations.
To the point of 7. Like Mosin is obv russian but it has basis of Huot which might imply close cooperation between Asian and European organizations because historically
1895 was Tsar russia and that point in time they were very seclusive or reclusive? Ye' know not interacting too much with the rest of the world.
forest condor
The letter States that Caldwell is directly interacting with foreign nationals though. He's gotten prototype firearms like the dolch and modified existing foreogn forearms, like the avtomat.
He "longs to create somrthing original" which he apparently did in the way of the avtomat
ashen plover
we know from the "this day in 1895" messages that there were illegal weapon shipments to the USA
sinful trout
^^^^
ashen plover
so thats pretty much established
sinful trout
Yeah
forest condor
Caldwell, you sly dog
sinful trout
But also be advised we know other factions are at play so a russian faction could be at play here and thats why you would see the mosin avto in the game
forest condor
He does talk about highly expiremental weaponry, the dolch lies in that category
ashen plover
also the bornheim
forest condor
That wouldn't be available wholesale St that point
sinful trout
Because we have to remember its still one story so there very well could be a russian with a modified gun
Imported or not
Theres an explanation
forest condor
Maybe, but more likely Caldwell used the mosin to go after his dream of modifying and creating a new gun
ashen plover
just throwing this in here but the bomblance thats hopefully going to be released at some point is also highly experemental
I mean we have no way of knowing if it is connected to Caldwell at this point but judging from his interest in creating new weapons it might as well be
sinful trout
Idk i feel thats something a hunter would be like "fuck i dropped my gun in yhe swamp on the way in here. Oh well better make an explosive fucking spear bc fuck you"
Also
Its called the stabby stabby boom boom. Get it right @ashen plover
ashen plover
Haha sorry my bad
forest condor
The stabby stabby bomb boye is probably a hunter-crafted weapon
ashen plover
yeah but if crafting is going to be the way they said (you buy the basic weapon, for instance the mosin-nagant and craft the different versions, the avtomat) then every weapon is going to be "hunter-crafted" in a way...
or am I missing something?
sinful trout
In a way yeah
But
The stabby stabby boom boom has no basic weapon
Unless explosive crossbow
late tinsel
I think the bomblance was created by the workshop heretics, the powder keggers
late tinsel
Oops, that’s Bloodborne, good hunter.
forest condor
Ah, cause I swore it's familiar but I don't remember reading it
late tinsel
Lol it’s a very Bloodborne style weapon, but I don’t know anybody who would even consider this kind of design besides Caldwell.
forest condor
Honestly, Caldwell would definitely do that
"hey let's make a fully auto mosin"
"Yeah that's good but we need more"
"Explosive crossbow"
Snaps fingers "close"
"Shotgun crossbow?"
"Almost got it"
"A crossbow spear that can do the stabs and the booms"
"There it is"
stiff vector
sinful trout
10/10 bomblance is the same as the speargun from bloodborne
If it aint got kick, it aint worth it
But they both have lovecraftian aspects to the game so it only makes sense that devs might take some inspiration
late tinsel
It’s like saw spear mixed with speargun and I love it.
late tinsel
Fellas. The box on the desk with the loa veve isn’t just a voodoo artifact. It’s an altar box!
forest condor
I'm so glad you're doing this shit, thank you for being so good with researching voodoo
sinful trout
@late tinsel <3
late tinsel
Gonna make me blush.
The only thing is, altar boxes usually store ritual stuff in them. Not sure why it’d be empty.
Is Jones, a skeptic and a doctor, simply studying it? Or are voodoo rituals part of AHA culture? Well, I think it’s rather simple.
We will reveal this later.
🦆
naive osprey
Can somebody catch me up? I've been on a hiatus of several months
late tinsel
@naive osprey check pinned stuff. How familiar are you?
rotund ferry
good morning
sinful trout
@naive osprey go look at immolator video ans check the description because theres lore in it. Also communique for all hunters and read back the last few days because fox unraveled some cool shit
late tinsel
Hello @rotund ferry !
rotund ferry
@late tinsel hellooo
languid bough
@sinful trout can you be more precise about how many days we need to roll back the discution to read all the new stuff? Thx
solid holly
I'm sure this has been answered before, but I am curious about the page in the library in very aggressive cursive. It appears to be in another language but I don't know which. Any idea what the page says?
sinful trout
Roughly 3 days welxome to lore chat @rotund ferry @languid bough
Ita a voynich font they use @solid holly
@languid bough roughly three days was for you. I messed up the mentions
Oh you mean the louisianna incident book in game? Thats Germain. Check the fandom lore site to get the translated version
@solid holly
languid bough
Ok thanks
late tinsel
Ye. It’s the Rittmeister letter if you’re having trouble pinpointing it.
sinful trout
<3
forest condor
I'll try to get a doc down with the lore from videos and in-game book so we don't have to go into the game for it
I'll do that when I have time
late tinsel
Yeah let’s gather the full translations as well. Thank you @forest condor
I keep seeing references to different circles. We have any idea what that’s about? We know of at least the second and eighth circles.
Circles of hell?
They’re referenced on the steam cards and in voynich hidden in old photos.
Wondering if they’re used to describe different places beyond the rifts.
forest condor
Interesting
naive osprey
There is so much new stuff
sinful trout
I thinknits circles of hell @late tinsel and yeah its craxy @naive osprey
forest condor
Maybe they banish their old members to different parts of the hell dimension
Banish both figuratively and literally
late tinsel
@forest condor I think it’s unlikely Hunters would banish other members. More likely they just kill them if they become too corrupt or break their oath. Considering people have traversed rifts, it may be more likely these bits are referring to somebody who went through or somebody who died and went to hell. Hard to say atm. Not sure if Simon is mentioned at all anywhere else.
Interesting. In Dante’s Inferno, those who practice Simony are sent to the eighth circle.
forest condor
Ohh forgot about that, that's basically (for those who don't know) people who pull-out, named after a biblical guy named Simon, maybe this has roots in Christianity as well?
late tinsel
Based on what we've seen, it's likely. Even voodoo has the odd mixture of christian elements in it as well.
Maybe the use of circles is carried over from *Inferno* in order to give a rational description of wherever this other place is. It's really hard to say atm.
forest condor
"Simon is in the 8th circle" could be a figurative thing
late tinsel
Indeed.
forest condor
Muslums definentally have a presence here, the islamic mystic Jelaluddin Rumi is referenced in some of the trading cards. he founded the "Whirling Dervist" sect of Sufi ecstatics
Sufi meaning a muslim mystic
so muslum mystycism has a place here
forest condor
I know, now it has more than one name
late tinsel
Interesting. That does establish a link to more interesting Middle Eastern folklore.
forest condor
Yep
sinful trout
so now we can start looking at middle eastern creatures as future lore refferences
twilit torrent
Djinn?
twilit torrent
ok
sinful trout
But thats due to unreliable narration
sinful trout
A djinn of thirst and filth probably relates to the spider or butcher
Hell cohld even be the sculptor
Not really
Man maybe thats why people dont come back
Arpys working on something for now @twilit torrent
forest condor
yeah, it's a lot of stuff though, i'm combing through the loose stuff like the youtube vids and the steam market for trading cards and backgrounds, and that's just the start
sinful trout
also @forest condor good catch
forest condor
thanks
forest condor
Okay the rough draft is out, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vE0s8Bj4UO0lAooY0UCMAXIrSpaeXNuGEiRFq4AGXZE/edit?usp=sharing
solid holly
@sinful trout Thanks
forest condor
oh okay
late tinsel
Great rundown of what we’ve unearthed recently, @forest condor. It’s all older info, but I think it begged a closer look. We’re probably still missing some connections. I totally missed the possibility that Simon might be referenced in the cards.
forest condor
The point was to consolidate the older Info in one spot for new guys, it also allows us to add new stuff when needed
late tinsel
Ye. I like. I think the older info will be more important as time goes on. Give us more perspective moving forward.
Definitely getting the vibe that whatever happened in the other world when people traversed it, they might've made comparisons to the circles of hell in Inferno.
languid bough
Nice work with the word @forest condor
From your discutions about the religious, it's possible that all the religion have a different interpretation of the same event, or place (hell and the circles). Some are more grounded, like voodoo and hold maybe more power, but they could each have some truth, or different name for the same things like God, the Former and maybe Ogou
slim hatch
@forest condor I'd really suggest better naming for you document
Looking into better naming *
Because the current document doesn't cover whole lore, it does a neat thing of writing out the backgrounds and cards something we only addressed when adding character to the list with the rest... But it sure AF doesn't cover whole lore. the EVO's presentation is far more informative than that.
languid bough
The document is not finished yet. Let him some time to completed with all the lore. It's a rougth draft like he said
slim hatch
Also I'd suggest splitting them out by topic else it will quickly bloat up especially with the last paragraph which is THeories.... And theories can go from wild mad man's president daughter to a solid one.
Aka Steam Tradingcards / Backgrounds etc.
Places of interest
etc.
@languid bough It's easier to give a suggestion early on than to come in late and potentially ask someone to rework shit they put a lot of time into.
It has to be easily readable for people who come from the outside. I mean at least in my head all docs etc. are done to easen out people's familiarization with lore.
languid bough
Yeah true, and your suggestions are good. It's just if you read only your first message (what I did with my answer, my bad) you could think you just critize his work with being constructive, but I was wrong. So sorry
Splitting the document is a good idea, and mandatory if you want to find information relatively quickly about something.
slim hatch
Yeah + I looked through some of the stuff and TBH some of it is a bit far stretched so it definitely needs to go through RIP and TEAR process.
That's when other people start trying to destroy every line placed into it.
Based on lack of proper source, based on loose interpretation, logical inconsistency, etc. It helps a lot.
You can also call it a sanity check. (My favourite name)
languid bough
I think the best option is to have a part with known and true fact who is split like a hunter book with a bestiary, location and more chapters.
And then a second part with the more strecth fact who need to be validated, and other theory
slim hatch
Problem i see with lore right now is that we don't have much new material, one thing maybe we could benefit from is transcript of "This day in 1895" series.
And obv. we lack the emails from pre-Early Access promotional emails which we know did contain some pieces of lore.But problem with that is nobody has them and we have asked Devs for them with no results
languid bough
Yeah it's a problem
slim hatch
Well as much as we know at present about 95% of existing lore is covered....
The remaining 5% is in "This day in 1895" and Early promotional emails
languid bough
95% of what they said to us. Because we still lack a lot of informations. We are still young hunters without anought power to access the more "classify informations" (DS I'm talking about you). We will have answers later
slim hatch
Yeah i'm talking out of IC perspective aka Global Overview of what is available to us at present
Anyway off to the office expect delays
languid bough
We don't have access to the pre-release because no one can still have them on their mail box or it's just we didn't find someone from the pre-realse still here?
Also can I have a link to "This day in 1895"? I'm pretty new and don't know if it's in the game or on another plateform
slim hatch
Pre-release ones were for those who signed up before release
No players had access to closed test
And I’ve been around since 0.100 and no players had access to pre-0.100
It’s the so called early sign up for newsletter
random lava
I signed up around December
Don't have any promotional mails that contained any lore
slim hatch
@random lava That was what we were told when we were about to hang one of the lore writers
I really have n info on those mails only thing i know is source who pointed it out is legit
languid bough
It's really strange
sinful trout
@slim hatch fhe doc was never intended to cover all lore. Just to give a brief summeey on tbose who lefr a while ago so they could catch up easier
forest condor
And for new guys to have the loose lore in one place, it's far from done but I wanted it up asap so people could start using it
slim hatch
I really recommend the EVO's presentation
It's good for both newbies and those who were away for a while
forest condor
The one already pinned?
It's incredibly basic, if you read the lore texts it's practically useless, an update needs to happn
I read It a bit after getting on here and it was already outdated to me
sinful trout
Its so basic and outdated its not funny. For anybody who wants to catch up on shit weve learned in the past few months its basically useless @slim hatch
slim hatch
Well Evo left hunt i can ask him to unlock it so it can be updated
forest condor
I'll just add his basic points to mine so it's consolidated
forest condor
Actually, reading over it again, it's completely redundant if you read the lore trxts
forest condor
@slim hatch where's the text starting with "this day 1895"?
slim hatch
Nor do I
Hence why majority of us ignored it or didn't put too much focus on it.
There isn't much useful information but since most of us were a bit on the edge about that one we might of easily missed shit
ashen plover
yeah it also stopped with the release of Lawson Delta
seemed like a buildup to the map release
sinful trout
@forest condor yeah the evo pres doesnt have much to offer. If you read the lorebtexts then it has nothingvto offer you
forest condor
Great, now I have more stuff to write about in the doc
Obscure tweets here I come
Actually, I don't think they need inclusion, they're too obscure for that
The big points are the medicine/injection, and the guy cutting his knuckles
Also a new character by the name of Daniel Mcgown
sinful trout
Yeah. Maybe include them just to be safe
forest condor
They'll get a section when I get home from school
sinful trout
Thanks
languid bough
I check quickly the "this days in 1885" story, and yeah it's mostly about the Lawson delta map. The dark picture is just the picture of the post office in darker and the 911 call is probably a clue about the population sending help to fight against the infection. The most interesting part is the two (maybe one?) letters. Like Arpy said we have a new name Daniel Mcgown and we know he have a niece.
late tinsel
Interesting. Thank you for digging around, @languid bough. If I get some time, I’ll take a peek at them, see what I can turn up.
forest condor
I'll transcribe them when I get home
sinful trout
Mcgowen is haywards brother
forest condor
some shitpoet about ducks
forest condor
Oh shit, the newsletter looks litty
late tinsel
Somebody just deleted the very last pictorial evidence it ever existed. Now we’ll never know. Smh
languid bough
Also, I don't know if it's important. At the end of the trailer of the Lawson delta map, we can hear a woman whisper "rise of the dead"
forest condor
She's saying "rise up dead man" that's the name of the main theme
languid bough
Oh OK.
forest condor
happy to help
sinful trout
@forest condor what newsletter
full fog
@forest condor yes tell me about that newsletter
forest condor
Foxtrap memed and now my words are being taken out of context
sinful trout
Wut
forest condor
he put the duck tales "voodoo hoodoo" meme up and i said that the news letter looked litty
i was meming that it was what we were missing in the first newsletter
sinful trout
OOOOHHHHH
forest condor
yeah
languid bough
I'm checking the desk of Hayward, what is the translation for the Matye?
forest condor
Oh I forgot about those, another ticket for the doc
sinful trout
Its a passage from the haitian creole biboe
If by beelzebub or something. Its noted in the wiki i think
forest condor
Plug them into Google translate and it'll tell you
languid bough
Since i couldn't just copy past, I was lazy to write the whole on trad, but if it's the only way, fine
late tinsel
@languid bough the desk belongs to Phillip Huff Jones.
Hayward is dead and gone, sadly. A nod to the Golden Age.
languid bough
Oh o, since I'm very bad with names, I use the one on the wiki. But the wrong one x) thanks for the information
forest condor
It's fine, the names are a bit easy to confuse
late tinsel
No problem. A few things indicate it to belong to Jones. The letter addressed to him, his commentary, medical stuff, and cards from the True Deck.
sinful trout
@late tinsel haywards daughter might get new lore
late tinsel
True. It’s heavily implied she’ll follow in his footsteps. I wouldn’t be surprised if she played a major role later on. Maybe in the fem hunter update.
forest condor
WE'VE BEEN USING THE TRUE DECK THIS WHOLE TIME
the true deck is comprised of traits
each card has a trait symbol on it
slim hatch
Way to jump to conclusions
That completely contradicts what is described in the letter.
forest condor
look at the hunter's desk @slim hatch
slim hatch
Read the letter
slim hatch
And also QNA
Based on the new piece of Lore text, the hunter with the True Deck looking at Tower, is it safe to assume that True deck isn’t a salvation as we assumed initially but rather a tool to foresee your future? The hunter expected to die because from the true deck staring back at him was The Tower. And in Tarot Tower’s meaning is as follows "The Tower is commonly interpreted as meaning danger, crisis, sudden change, destruction, higher learning, and liberation. In the Rider-Waite deck, the top of The Tower is a crown, which symbolizes materialistic thought being bought cheap" -Essy
Answer: The True Deck is a tool and more. You’ll have to wait for more
slim hatch
And we have a Source Piece
And we have QnA answer
Which came
After the Desk
And we already know that some stuff is retconned
slim hatch
Early material reuse
slim hatch
Asset Reuse is common in the industry way too common
And they already over-wrote the way you acquire the Dark Sight.
Hunter's Desk is one of the oldest pieces there is
forest condor
I understand how asset reuse works, this is either an extreamly blatant mistake or the lore devs ment for this all along
slim hatch
Okay then explain this
Those aren't traits
Those are reward gizmos
Same Card layout
slim hatch
Too many maybes
forest condor
or maybe it's a different type of card, because most cards look the same
slim hatch
Tarot cards aren't out
That's a fact
Was written in the old roadmap
White on Black
forest condor
the lore devs made their own voynich script, maybe they made their own tarrot cards
slim hatch
Maybe Maybe Maybe
Maybe cows will rain down from the sky
Maybe Hunters participate in a game of paintball
forest condor
maybe you'll stop trying to shutdown future lore discoveries
slim hatch
Maybe you stop jumping to conclusions?
forest condor
maybe you'll not try to shut down a lore doc because you're buddy buddy with a guy who made an extreamly basic one
slim hatch
Yeah introductionary one
And me buddy buddy?
Nope we know eachother purely because of Hardcore
Stop getting aggressive
forest condor
you're trying to shut down one of my biggest contributions
slim hatch
And locking was done because people would add empty spaces and shit when skimming through it and he had to clean it up.
forest condor
because somebody in HC made a crap version of it
slim hatch
What if your contribution is wrong?
You want to contribute so hard
To prove yourself
forest condor
not to prove myself
slim hatch
That you don't care to check.
Because your contribution might be wrong and mislead people
But you've contributed right?
forest condor
i'm trying to consolidate the loose lore info, and if something is objectively wrong please let me know
sinful trout
@slim hatch stop being a prick @forest condor its inconclusive
slim hatch
Well i just pointed out 3 sources that are contradicting
And I wasn't a prick initially
sinful trout
sure
forest condor
you pointed out that some cards look simaler to other cards
like any playing cards ever
that's how standardization works
sinful trout
@languid bough this isnt how the chat usually is i apologise
forest condor
your lore text says nothing about the hunter's desk and only mentiones the tower, the Q&A barely mentions the true deck
the tower is still relevant but the desk specifically states true deck with images of traits, it's too large to brush over your shoulder ess
languid bough
@sinful trout It's not a problem. The goal is to try to ind the truth. And debad are inevitable.
I Also read the whole mess of thursday about the religions
sinful trout
good to hear and yeah i apologise for that as well
slim hatch
60% of it is based on early texts and Desk of a hunter
Just because it doesn't say explicitly "DESK OF A HUNTER"
Doesn't mean Desk of a hunter wasn't examined
sinful trout
@slim hatch @forest condor both of you, chill. is it POSSIBLE that the true deck is in fact traits? yes its possible however it is pretty thin even i must admit.
forest condor
yes, but it doesn't discount the possability that we're already using parts of the true deck
sinful trout
it is possible @slim hatch you cant deny that
dont immediately shut something down because you dont like someone
slim hatch
@forest condor We have an outside source as well
Roadmap
Tarot deck isn't implemented yet
forest condor
tarot cards could work in different ways, if each tarot card worked the same way why is it plural
sinful trout
sigh
slim hatch
Again as i said you try to contribute so much you don't account for if the contribution is valid or not.
@sinful trout I'm chill AF i mean my sleeping meds are kicking in, I'm half a sleep.
forest condor
essence, i was throwing it up in here for a discussion
sinful trout
you are now
languid bough
If you let me help you, I agree with Var, Arpy just point out a new theory, and we need to find it's true or false, and the answer on the QnA is not sufficient, in my opinion, to dig this theory. It only tell that it's a tool and more. But a tool to do what? Also the dev help us about the meaning, but not necessary about the deck fonctions
Also I don't saw card on challenge, am I wrong?
sinful trout
^^^
forest condor
thanks Inea
sinful trout
^^%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
&^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
forest condor
}~a|⌂Ç
sinful trout
@languid bough i love you
languid bough
Thanks Var, love you too
slim hatch
Didn't look like it
forest condor
that's an opening to discussion
slim hatch
"Guys is there a possibility Tarot cards are trait cards?"
forest condor
i state my view and let people debate
slim hatch
Yeah and i countered it and you got salty
forest condor
you brushed it over your shoulder
forest condor
saying it was outright false 100%
also, again @slim hatch , if you find something objectively wrong with the doc then let me know
sinful trout
lets talk about the theory and not bitch at eachother
forest condor
but until then stop trying to pin me as unreliable
slim hatch
My statement stands evidence inconclusive, not a fact. 3 counter stating source materials + Roadmap
I wasn't trying to pin you as unreliable.
slim hatch
I frankly put don't target you personally at all. I can target your pitch but not you. Don't take it personal
sinful trout
double sigh
forest condor
the tarot cards in the roadmap could be cards used in a different way
sinful trout
@languid bough we can come back later
forest condor
completely differently from trait cards
slim hatch
Maybe, COuld be should be would be....
languid bough
I'll come back later^^ Playing with a friend (since I'm a big noob in the game) and sleeping. I will answer tomorow if there are something interesting
slim hatch
Maybe if people were more rational we could all get along and we definitely should be more critical toward loose data.
Problem with that statement yeah it would be awesome but it isn't.
sinful trout
jesus ess you got the last word drop it
slim hatch
I just can't wrap my head around it, you put it up, it gets smashed to pieces you get salty... Where is the profit? It's as if i've nothing better to do than deal with people's emotions and feels when trying to look at things objectively
humble linden
Taro cards are the same thing as ducks prove me wrong
slim hatch
Ducks are Crytek easter-egg present since Crysis, at present putting value into them is same as saying Hunt takes place in Crysis Universe.
Tarot cards are a tool within Hunt-verse that we presently lack information on.
Here you go
forest condor
tbh though tarrot cards seem to feature either disembodied hands or a main figure, the traits in hunt do follow that pattern
looking through them they seem to be skinned with a gothic/voodoo astethetic
also, turns out I was wrong about that being determination, but the card under it is still resilance
sick vault
Every hunter can have traits, even T1 (guys on their first hunt, they could not be in possession of cards of the True Deck?).
Traits are just skills you unlock with experience. If the cards of the True Deck are the traits, how would the hunters use them?
You have the Bullet Grubber card on you and now have the skill to catch cartridges midair and if you trade it in you can't do that anymore?
If I kill a hunter, why can't I take his cards and add them to mine to get more traits?
The picture on the desk is most likely old content, just like the hidden monster page on the website.
Cards of the True Deck (as of now) are rewards and trade goods and people use them for different things.
(I don't think Abdullah bin Abdulaziz is bringing home 40 traits from his hunt, hornskin for everyone!)
If we use the hunters desk for facts the sticky bomb should be renamed to barbed bomb and it shouldn't have the longest fuse time of all explosives.
forest condor
Teir one hunters are being changed though, they won't be able to have traits, and free hunters don't have traits
All i'm pointing out is that there is mention to the true deck right next to trait cards
and if the tarot cards work like some people are theorizing they will they will be consumed in some way
late tinsel
Hoo boi I need to catch up on what just happened.
forest condor
enjoy
sigh
also short fuse can be interpreted in different ways
and it's not called the barbed bomb, it says a barbed bomb, as a description of the sticky bomb
it doesn't outright name the sticky bomb in the entire passage, it describes it
sick vault
You can't use "Teir one hunters are being changed though, they won't be able to have traits, and free hunters don't have traits" from the testserver patchnotes for a lore idea
that's based on a text that's a year old.
forest condor
also they don't have traits now
iirc
only teir two and teir 3 have them,
also, if im wrong, with my bloodline theory the bloodline would supply them with low level trait cards
also traits have been out for over a year right? just because I just found it doesn't mean they didn't want us to find it earlier
late tinsel
Okay, so I read through the arguments made. I think the ultimate conclusion is that it’s too soon to say much at all.
I don’t think it’s likely the True Deck is what we’re using for traits, largely because we know it’s not implemented yet, doesn’t seem consistent with the tarot references, etc., all of Esse’s points. However, I think it’s fair to draw some similarities between the traits and what we see in the cards- even if they are reused assets- until we see the final product. There are a lot of maybes when it comes to the True Deck. I think they’ll be used to enhance certain traits or do something completely different. I can’t say yet because we just don’t have the data. Could be the True Deck has cards not represented in traditional tarot. I have no idea.
Yes, we have to look at what’s retconned or consider the age of lore pieces, but there are elements that are almost certainly going to carry on, otherwise the devs should take them down so we don’t get confused. It’d be foolish to write a huge lore post then completely pave over it like it didn’t happen. That not only suggests the lore wasn’t written consistently, but shows a poor respect for established material that is the foundation for the lore and this channel.
Just my thoughts.
But, hey, speculate away. Hell, Arpy could be right and they haven’t implemented the tarot yet in a way that functions how it was all intended. I don’t know 🤷♂️. As long as it’s labeled as such and arguments are made constructively, I don’t care if someone speculates ducks are part of some voodoo rituals. We’re here to chew the lore over and over until we find some nuggets. Speculation- even on covered material we may already have some answers on- provides clarity and context for future discussion.
forest condor
I think this is going to be a conversation that we need to bring up after tarot cards are officially added so we can see how hunters interact with them before passing final judgementa
late tinsel
I agree.^
slim hatch
^
soft tartan
Oh snap! Maybe salters pork got some badness in it and shipment got sent to a more western town and now you got a new map location baby!
late tinsel
I've had food poisoning about that bad.
Sadly, I think the corruption afflicting the good folks of Stillwater and Lawson is a bit more severe than really bad food poisoning. Then again, could be unreliable narration and everyone is actually just coming over to you to beg for some 7UP.
soft tartan
Big oops
forest condor
Nah man, it has to be Sprite, maybe people misinterpreted that word and though spirits and possession
amber harbor
I think tarot cards would be more restricted because of their power. It could be a rental kinda thing to be used to buff the initiation ritual by a bloodline.
Also weren't they supposed to enchant weapons or smth?
late tinsel
Not really sure yet. We know they’re very valuable though. The Sinners came over from the Middle East in order to obtain 40 cards from the True Deck as a reward for taking down whatever’s caused the Louvent.
languid bough
I was thinking, the cards seems to be reward if I follow what you're saying, and in that case, come from somewhere. I don't think it's an object form an other world, but made but someone or something. Since the card hold power, and on one of the QnA it's said that the hunter are not not only after money. Could they be after the souls/spirits of the target to make the cards?
amber harbor
Maybe they are infused with power by some voodoo practitioners and Huff managed to gather 40 of them. Would explain his familiarity with the subject and that they're unique
But I don't know anything for sure about the enchanting system, other than it was on the roadmap
languid bough
If it's made by voodoo or at least by humans, even if it's difficult to make the true deck, it's doable, but if it's not made by a craft, we have a limited amount of cards
amber harbor
I'd say they're human made; I don't think hell prints cards
languid bough
I think so to
amber harbor
Like with the rifts and clues cards don't seem like a plausible rift
forest condor
It would also explain why he has them on his desk
late tinsel
They’re almost certainly not from beyond the rifts. I think there’s some logic to thinking they could be made, but considering how valuable they are, it must be an astronomically difficult task. If it required something like boss tokens to make... maybe, yeah. Hard to say atm. Good catch there.
forest condor
based off of the lack of trace from Dr Winkler and father Nico there is a distinct possibility they are the butcher and spider. This is based off of the qna saying their (bosses') identity is complicated
I'm going to watch the trailer again sometime to see if it looks like chapel
amber harbor
Who is dr Winkler?
forest condor
He's mentioned in the trading cards
late tinsel
It’s been confirmed the Sipder’s identity is in the lore, but “it’s complicated.”
It’s probable, considering there are few names in the lore, and since there’s no trace of them, they very well could be the spider.
slim hatch
@late tinsel Watch Character Dev talk
They accidentally spilled the fact there is no character identity behind spider
And then said probably should talk to Lore lead about that
That stream was after release of trading cards
So at present there is no identity behind spider
I’m not at home so can’t link it
forest condor
When was the question answered though
@slim hatch because I took the dev stream into account
forest condor
So then the lore guys were already working on it, theres no way they let the biggest baddie go without lore
slim hatch
Well for now fact stays we have no identity behind spider at least no revealed identity
forest condor
It's complicated means that the we probably weren't searching the right places for the names. The trading cards seem to detail a groups adventure into the other realm but there are a few that don't quite match with it. That card is one of them and I feel like it holds more importance than we give it credit foe
late tinsel
I guess it could be retconned, but I think that's mighty strange.
forest condor
The lore guys were definitely working on lore even though the modelers didn't have a specific design.
It might not be one of those two but it would be a massive oversignt on their part
As proven by the fact that they said the names were in lore
Also the butcher seems to be up for grabs too
late tinsel
Butcher, I’m less convinced is currently in lore, but mostly because any details of it are completely absent beyond descriptions.
sinful trout
@late tinsel also btw abdulaziz isnt part of the sinners
late tinsel
Oh?
sinful trout
yeah
forest condor
Yep
forest condor
But muh evolvin language
late tinsel
So then sinners aren’t the only middle eastern faction at play.
sinful trout
that seems to be the case yes
unless arpys theory is correct in assuming the sinners are wiped out except for sinan
which i doubt mainly because john says he is from a group
not was
late tinsel
Right, unless he only met John and never told him the rest of his posse was dead.
But that’s all speculation. Seems whoever Abdul was working with really had it out for the True Deck. We know there are Middle Eastern mystics hinted at in the lore. Maybe Sinners are a mirror of the AHA in the Muslim world, but there are mystics much like the more religious or superstitious hunters in the AHA.
Speaking of True Deck, I’d really like to know if Marie Laveau has some cards. She has a history of divining and said she saw the end of the city.
late tinsel
Sinners, cursed & from a Muslim region = Hunters, cursed and from a Christian region.
late tinsel
Ye, that’s what I gathered. Also important to note a lot of hunters are formerly military.
late tinsel
Yeah you told us the theory when you were chanting over discord.
/s
I don’t recall it either.
sinful trout
@slim hatch also keep in mind they NEVER said that spider never had a person behind it. at one point maq said "i dont know if we even have someone for spider from lore side" and the char designer said "you'll probably have to talk to fasih to figure that out"
so basically when they created the spider yeah it had no identity but they also created the spider way before alpha. so the thought that it cant have an identity is quite rediculous.
in most cases the lore team has to work behind the dev team so yeah it makes sense that they would write something in after the dev team created it
@forest condor i thought it was you? could have been @urban burrow
late tinsel
Interesting. So spider could be floating in the lore.
sinful trout
it would be shameful if a lore dev team had no lore behind a boss
so im going with yes
there is a person
plus its confirmed that hes in the lore
forest condor
Spider IS in the lore
sinful trout
yes
late tinsel
Do we know if Butcher is? Can’t remember
late tinsel
Then we have a few candidates narrowed down a bit.
sinful trout
we can assume at least
because it says spider or butcher in the question
but i would assume he would take the chance to stir the pot and say one is
like i said
my theory remains as butcher is reed and spider is winkler
or nico
forest condor
Winkler or nico
sinful trout
probably nico
forest condor
Wow you're fast
sinful trout
because winkler is doctor
forest condor
Does the butcher have two legs?
sinful trout
i think so
forest condor
Real legs
sinful trout
oh
late tinsel
I don’t think Reed is anything atm. Why go to the trouble of rendering him in the pic then make him a reskin meatboi?
sinful trout
you make me sad
there goes my reed theory
but then again
spider grew 4 new legs
forest condor
Sorry friend, the image at the end of the trials of Reed have him as a regular zed
sinful trout
late tinsel
Spider might be Nic and other guy combined, but idk.
late tinsel
Some are yeah.
late tinsel
Most are fleshy stuff.
forest condor
The sculpture tends to work in chitin
forest condor
And the armor on the spider resembles that of the armoured
forest condor
Yeah
sinful trout
^
late tinsel
Bodies are to be joined
sinful trout
mmmmm
forest condor
Hmm, anyway I'm going to go, gotta conserve my last 40 megs of data
sinful trout
maybe
late tinsel
Flesh is to be worn.
I’d say there’s mass for 2 people in spider. Butcher is odd because of how bloated the leeches/maggots make him.
slim hatch
@sinful trout I never said Spider has no Identity i said available names based on what we know for certain atm. None of them seem to be the spider
Aka yeah it was created without identity
Writers might of written something but it wasn't released yet
forest condor
@slim hatch we know for sure one of the names is the spider, the qna proves that
We're talking about the probability of each different name
And the implications of Winkler and nico
slim hatch
Problem is we have no data to estimate probability
sinful trout
well we know for a fact roche isnt butcher
and we know reed isnt spider
and we have limited chars in lore
so we have a candidate pool
slim hatch
Still it’s atm equal to throwing rocks into bushes imo.
sinful trout
hardly
because if we have a candidate pool
we can narrow it
for example we can cancel out al hunters that attended the louvent
our candidate pool originally looks like this:
Coroner Amos
Huff jones
Marie laveau
Gov Foster
Henrik Graf
Cleveland
John Selman
Booker T Washington
Daniel Klein
V caldwell
Don Alessandro guardini
Abdullah bin Abdulaziz
Chincane
Azrail
Pellella
Rittmeister
R Ramsey
A lynch
Gus March
J.R.A rawlings
Father nico
Winkel
Young roche
Elwood finch
Elisa
Dr Reed
Harold black
Scagnamillio
Paxton
from there we can pretty much cancel out all hunters
and everyone referenced to be alive by hunters
Coroner Amos
Marie laveau
Gov Foster
Henrik Graf
Cleveland
John Selman
Booker T Washington
Daniel Klein
V caldwell
Azrail
Rittmeister
R Ramsey
A lynch
Gus March
J.R.A rawlings
Father nico
Winkel
Young roche
Elwood finch
Elisa
Dr Reed
Harold black
Scagnamillio
Paxton
and from there we can eliminate evryone referenced after the louvent and big political figures conisdering they are referenced after 1895
so our candidate pool ends up looking like this
Coroner Amos
Henrik Graf
John Selman
Daniel Klein
Rittmeister
R Ramsey
A lynch
Gus March
J.R.A rawlings
Father nico
Winkel
Young roche (not butcher)
Elisa
Dr Reed (not spider)
Harold black
Scagnamillio
Paxton
so now we have 17 rocks
less time to throw into your "river"
late tinsel
I’d say you could even scratch Scagnamillio off atm.
sinful trout
i thought that about harold and paxton as well
but as we dont know if theyre alive or dead
we should keep it
late tinsel
Mhm. Same. I’m just not as familiar with those fellas.
sinful trout
presidents daughter is kidnapped and became the spider
late tinsel
Oh god oh fff I’m shaking.
How did we miss this? President Grover Cleveland had two daughters.
sinful trout
hahahaha lmao
late tinsel
Lol no I looked up some history on him. Nothing sketchy happened to him or his family, as far as some google searches are concerned.
Oh lord I just realized my search history is:
Grover Cleveland
Grover Cleveland children
Presidential kidnappings
Hello, fbi! Hope you enjoy the lore!
forest condor
As a notbot for the FBI I can assure you that I don't collect your data
forest condor
And don't forget the searched for voodoo
urban burrow
So Grover was a leader of AHA confirmed?
Maybe its like Abraham Lincoln the vampire hunter. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1611224/ We are actually playing as Grover trying to save his daughters
forest condor
did Abe Lincon kidnapp the president's daughter?
urban burrow
Abe Lincoln is the sculptor! HOLY SHIT!
urban burrow
Sculptor used this as a blueprint? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitting_spider
forest condor
okay let's calm down now
worn crag
wdym
late tinsel
^
random lava
languid bough
Wow, lots of many I don't know, I'll need a catch up. Who?s Nico and Winkel? Or at least in wich document can I find usefull informations?
late tinsel
Nico and Winkel are referenced in the steam trading cards. It’s very brief and at first glance can seem insignificant, but the steam cards are part of the lore as far as we know. Somebody was looking for them, but when they arrived, there was no trace of the two. @languid bough
languid bough
Ok thanks
slim hatch
@languid bough pinned posts characters doc
late tinsel
I wonder if the roots of darkness reference in the cards & the roots in Reed’s journal are connected.
Steam card might be referring to how corrupted folks might need to be burned. Reed somewhat gives us an example at how the corruption takes root.
Or if the steam card is referencing the destruction of literal corrupting roots.
forest condor
I think some of the cards detail a hunters journey Into their world
Three or four of them seem to
late tinsel
That’s been my general theory as well. Especially since there’s mention of them not being able to go back, or whatever
forest condor
The one about someone pointing the way seemed to be part of it too
burnt storm
1895
random zenith
aight
Just stumbled across Liberty arsenal and wondered why there were no confederate flags, but it makes sense now
forest condor
You should check out the rest of the lore tidbits too
random zenith
Ohh im on it 😄
forest condor
I'm working on a doc for the extrenous stuff
forest condor
I now have confirmation that each background on the steam market has either a quote from Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi or Omar Khayyam
languid bough
Oh that's a nice catch
forest condor
They're in the doc
I looked up the quotes and asked around for one of them
I still need to update the card with the quote about the ney
Background not card
late tinsel
How curious. Interesting find, @forest condor.
forest condor
possable relationship between circles of hell and proximity to the boss
languid bough
I was thinking the same after checking again your docs and the imgur linked to it
forest condor
@late tinsel I mentioned it earlier but there was a discrepancy with one quote, it got cleared up and so I threw out that confirmation, it's already added to the doc
sinful trout
@forest condor but arpy. Dont you know? The evo presentation covers everything
forest condor
Oh ok, delete time
amber harbor
Are we sure The Sinners are an actual group and not just in the religious sense?
sinful trout
"He was from a land far away. Most of us are from some other place. Sinan was a soldier. They were called The Sinners" - John Hayward Hunter
amber harbor
thx
sinful trout
Np!
sinful trout
@forest condor could you post the doc and @stiff vector could you pin it when he posts it?
stiff vector
I can't pin messages 
forest condor
Here's a rundown of some loose lore fragments. This list will be updated as time goes on to include new content and changes to old content.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vE0s8Bj4UO0lAooY0UCMAXIrSpaeXNuGEiRFq4AGXZE/edit?usp=sharing
@stiff vector i know you can't pin but you probably know someone who can
stiff vector
Oh, ok
sinful trout
@random lava hey can you pin the message arpy posted?
stiff vector
I also asked Destinate. But I think there is noone available atm ^^
random lava
stiff vector
forest condor
:)
sinful trout
Fabfab "i think noone is available"
Nixatek laughs in hidden
forest condor
Lol
random lava
forest condor
@sick vault btw about the desk again and the spiked bomb, there's a timer in the picture detailing 8 seconds
late tinsel
@wispy dome as far as I know, it’s just a Groot Easter egg.
raven rock
I saw it too wondered if it meant anything xD
sinful trout
a lot of people did
urban burrow
ya that one got me too
noble vine
but what IS exactly the lore in this game? I thought its just the fact that monsters from hell got to earth and the american hunters association makes a sport out of it
noble vine
i know what the term "lore" means thanks 😂
i mean whats the lore from the hunt universe?
slim hatch
Read pinned posts
I'd suggest EVO's presentation for basic overview, QnA's for a bit in-depth digging, Character list just to get some flavour, screenshots are of well questionable value some consider valueable some not. And then Arpy is working on kinda the loose lore bits that are hanging in the ether that you can look into.
noble vine
@slim hatch oh. Thank you
slim hatch
Hope it helps
noble vine
it does
k my mind just exploded. I didnt realize how big the hunt universe actually is
slim hatch
It's only scraps
We have maybe 5% at best?
Book of Weapons, Book of Monsters should give quite a lot to work with
There was supposedly a 3rd book in total 3 or 4
But i don't remember the titles
noble vine
i mean the story could take place even in the future. The AHA seems to be a stable organisation
slim hatch
WE play in 1895 but present time in Hunt-verse is in 21st century
Aka
AS repeatedly said
There is only 1 Butcher and 1 Spider
Each game you play
Is essentially another person telling the same story
- Another confirmation for that is "This day in 1895" series
Which takes place in Modern-day
So from narrative perspective/canonically the year is 20xx
Present year
noble vine
could be, but i think we dont know enough to say it
noble vine
oh yes.
slim hatch
Present year in Hunt-verse isn't 1895
noble vine
guess i will have to learn more XD
slim hatch
It's closer to 20xx
noble vine
yes with the "machine"
slim hatch
But gameplay takes place in 1895
noble vine
would explain the quickplay phenomenon pretty good. When the portals are open, the damned got an opportunity to get out
slim hatch
The "This Day in 1895" was a short twitter series
#thisdayin1895 <---- That's the hashtag
You can watch them
noble vine
i will check it out
slim hatch
We don't know where exactly in timeline does QP take place
Aka it can be before or after the Butcher and Spider Hunt
I'm honestly not sure
You've to also take into account "asset re-use"
So QP might take place entirely canonically in a different area
I'd say it's pretty safe to assume Butcher and Spider hunts took place in Bayou
noble vine
it has to be while the portals are open
slim hatch
But that leave Lawson Delta as "Yet to be revealed"
noble vine
yah
noble vine
stable and unstable
slim hatch
Yeah
And you can only close the unstable ones
According to writers
So monsters didn't come from hell (just how the dimension is referred to by some characters)
Monsters are from Human world
But the entity referred to as Sculptor
Came from the other dimension
slim hatch
Nah it seems like just one of the many
Aka there are probably more different entities
We just don't know if there are any to say it for sure.
Because based on QnA's
Hunts have been going for hundreds of years
With incidents being of different magnitude
The pivotal event being "Sundering"
But we have no idea what the Sundering is about
Writers don't want to reveal it yet
noble vine
damn. We still got lot to discover
slim hatch
As i said we have 5% at best
And the Lore pipes have been dry for quite a while
based on old Roadmap
Book of Weapons and Monsters should of been revealed like
This month max next
But it's now off the Roadmap
So
I've no idea when the books are coming.
noble vine
i look forward to read them. Thanks a lot for the information! I will see the game another way now XD
slim hatch
Yeah that's the whole point of researching lore
To understand why and how shit works
Kinda get that extra level of immersion
noble vine
you really should write a whole book about it with timeline and all
gtg now. Was fun tho!
slim hatch
We have timeline
Wynu made it
And I'm not a writer I'm just researcher 😛
I've no right to write fan-fic or headcannon into the game
forest condor
@noble vine the Evo overview is pretty outdated for what it is, I've been working on a doc that has some decent lore pieces that encompasses some of the extrenous stuff, it's a WIP but there's a good deal of stuff in there.