💽Programming Chat v2

[spare quartz]

hmm

[timid quartz]

Alpine is super lightweight if that’s all you care about

[spare quartz]

all it needs to support is JDK 21+ and NIC utilities

[timid quartz]

It’s used as the base for lightweight docker images

[spare quartz]

and i assume it does

[timid quartz]

I guess

Definitely supports JDK 21

[spare quartz]

i wonder

i also assume it comes with its own dns resolver right?

would there be a way to uninstall that

[timid quartz]

uh you can probably set it to use one over localhost or whatever

https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_setup_scripts#setup-dns

[spare quartz]

well thats how resolvers work so.. hopefully it lets us to do that..

https://www.youtube.com/live/04nJf4BeoUg

[spare quartz]

have to support a lot of DNS rr formats now

[spare quartz]

ゲーム開発に集中しすぎて載せれるらくがきすら描けてなかった…進捗はいい感じ！はやめに仕上げてブラッシュアップや小ネタ満載にしていくフェーズがほしい

,

lookbehind experiment

almost

there

[spare quartz]

higher complexity

[spare quartz]

registering our ips as nameservers now...

[timid quartz]

Gonna DOS your servers

[spare quartz]

ip ban.

[timid quartz]

botnet.

[spare quartz]

thats called a DDOS dummy

besides where would you ever get a botnet

you're not the script kiddie type

[wheat hornet]

Command every person in qdf /j

[spare quartz]

just need to figure out what to do for zone files

this system should be infinitely variable and customizable without needing to rely on squarespace or cloudflare anymore..

[spare quartz]

i got it working!

[spare quartz]

added a very shoddy support for CNAME

looks like my dns requests aren't actually coming from me!

[spare quartz]

@timid quartz you're awake! would you mind doing a test for me :3

[timid quartz]

whag

[spare quartz]

visit/ping ns-2.javart.zip

i ASSUME 141.207.203.254 is not your ip?

[timid quartz]

idk I’m on mobile data

I’m not home this weekend

[spare quartz]

oh

well honestly. im not sure if that is your ip or Verizon's DNS...

but whoever it is thank you for testing :3

[spare quartz]

ah, thanks youtube

[spare quartz]

our dns server is only 90 lines (including the static_server argument reading and boilerplate)

of course that's not counting the server operations library, but, for a standalone server thats pretty good..

[spare quartz]

okay alphine is working

😁

https://javart.zip/joe.mp4

[spare quartz]

only problems right now:

• need PTR/MX support
• server uses an unshielded ethernet line

WHO IS DOING THIS!!!

[spare quartz]

@timid quartz okay alphines pretty good

we're only using 1 GB of memory for static_http/http_router/vaultwarden/DNS/maven/smtp running all at once + 5 screens

misc.

[spare quartz]

https://github.com/Bread-Experts-Group/dns_microserver/blob/main/src/main/kotlin/Main.kt

dns code is online now

only took about

1 and a half days for me to make my own dns server!

i think thats pretty good time

[wheat hornet]

dns server speedrun

[lavish dove]

https://github.com/98devin/ada-gba-dev

[timid quartz]

wait what

this might make me use Ada more

[timid quartz]

use tmux!!!

But also 1gb is wild

[spare quartz]

【10/31リリース決定🦇】ゲーム #でびコネ 新PVを公開しました！

10/31!!!

[spare quartz]

tmux is awwkard to use

but yeah 1 GB for that spread of services is great

[timid quartz]

naw

[spare quartz]

yaw

[timid quartz]

nah you just haven’t seen the light

[spare quartz]

also this is by far the best dns panel i have ever used

reject html

[timid quartz]

lmao

[spare quartz]

i just need to add dnssec to it

[timid quartz]

imagine having to type your dns records by hand

[spare quartz]

you literally have to do that with every panel

thats how records work

[timid quartz]

but like the panel handles the actual format

[spare quartz]

i mean here the format is just a 1:1 to the binary format

fields separated with \n

so it's not really that different

but it sure does work

(except for CNAMEs, those will never be shown due to how im handling them rn)

[timid quartz]

cat your MX record

[spare quartz]

(they do operate though, e.g. https://modrinth.javart.zip)

[spare quartz]

86400s = 1 day = ttl
1 = priority
smtp.javart.zip. = mail server

this is the file -> rr converter

[timid quartz]

Kotlin 👎👎

Should have written it in Ada

[spare quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/shower-duolingo-please-take-a-shower-immediately-take-a-shower-gif-23968576

even with full verbosity enabled

the server is quite fast

and memory efficient too

[timid quartz]

Ada would be faster and more memory efficient

[spare quartz]

actually im not sure about that

mainly just due to file I/O

[spare quartz]

しない

[timid quartz]

mmmm I am

[spare quartz]

okay, then write your own

[timid quartz]

how would the JVM be better for file io

[spare quartz]

you have 1 day.

[timid quartz]

dyay

[spare quartz]

die.

[timid quartz]

I CANT rn smh

[spare quartz]

im playing bayachao game rn

[timid quartz]

but rust would be faster

and more memory efficient

[spare quartz]

nope

[timid quartz]

Your JVM is probably using like 200mb of ram

[spare quartz]

i wanna ikill this guy'

[spare quartz]

actually it uses like, 60 mb

[timid quartz]

cap

uses like

600mb

[spare quartz]

idk what to tell you rustlet

i wonder how low i can make it go

[timid quartz]

rust would use half of that I’m sure

[spare quartz]

❌

[timid quartz]

✅

[spare quartz]

960 MiB lowest

[spare quartz]

HTTPS record format hold this

[spare quartz]

ultimately this is the HTTPS format

[timid quartz]

Should do 20min ttl

[spare quartz]

we can do ttl of at minimum 1 second

86,400 is just what i chose since im not going to be updating the records except for when they break

[timid quartz]

takes one day to propagate a fixed record

[spare quartz]

do you think we're modifying our DNS every waking hour?

the records have been unchanged for months until we've had to make ourselves the authority

[timid quartz]

No but when you need to fix a record you’d want it to propagate fast

[spare quartz]

we don't

by records breaking i mean "i made a mistake while writing them, and the other DNS servers are throwing them away"

our SOA takes about a month** to expire...

right i also need to AXFR when ns-2 is online

i dunno how that'll work yet

well

i think its time i start working on the management server

[spare quartz]

@timid quartz https://openjdk.org/jeps/469

[lavish dove]

I am trying to code for gba but the documentation for arm is so shit 😭

couldnt nintendo put a celeron in the gba or something lmao

[spare quartz]

they're removing 32-bit x86 support to the JVM in JDK 25 ☹️

[lavish dove]

bruh

[spare quartz]

which releases in about 5 months

finally

give us the json library

yooooo

[timid quartz]

[timid quartz]

look up the gba tonc

Goated resource

[spare quartz]

thats not a BAD thing... but it means i can't run my quantum-resistant schemes on a 3d printer no more

they're removing it cause of limitations towards their JIT internals n such

the future is Solaris 64-bit and my mind cannot be changed

[lavish dove]

I will use windows again only if they add support for ms dos games again

[timid quartz]

but can it game

[spare quartz]

can linux game?

actually wrong question

[timid quartz]

kinda yeah

[spare quartz]

can it play https://youtu.be/S9n3Da9HCoE

if it can its a real os

solaris is linux-like so

it can probably game... with some effort

[timid quartz]

it’s Linux-like but it probably doesn’t have the same syscalls and stuff that Linux has added to ease gaming

[spare quartz]

linux does not have syscalls for gaming

[timid quartz]

ok maybe not syscalls or whatever but

improvements

Patches

[spare quartz]

drivers?

[timid quartz]

plus since it’s not Linux you’d have to compile the games for Solaris anyways

different libc

or if Solaris has wine

[spare quartz]

reason i said with some effort is cause they're both POSIX compliant, at least

so it's not like you're playing a mac game on windows

[spare quartz]

yeah it does

ughh

more i look at the JVM

more im starting to think it's actually the best thing

compiled languages are so 1970s

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rkPsWc
https://www.amazon.com/PowerHOOD-Adapter-Compatible-ThinkCentre-Business/dp/B0CLHK35K8

holdl these

[lavish dove]

damn arm is actually kinda pretty cool

[timid quartz]

copium

[spare quartz]

nah

[timid quartz]

yeah

you’re cucked by a giant external dependency that eats all your memory and imposes interpreting overhead

[lavish dove]

lmao

[spare quartz]

nope

think about it

[timid quartz]

yep

[spare quartz]

easy to write language, cross platform and runs as expected on those platforms (obv excluding conditions depending on system variables),

gets compiled down natively where possible, has automatic memory management, is intrinsically safe

has the most concise and extensive standard library out of every language

[timid quartz]

Rust

• cross platform
• runs as expected
• entirely compiled down
• automatic memory management
• intrinsically safe
• good standard library with even better community of easy to access crates

• NOT FORCED INTO OOP

[spare quartz]

compile times, you cannot load code dynamically, you cannot instrument code, you cannot use the same code across platforms, that code cannot be optimized across the same platform

may not run as expected due to the lower nature of rust

may have more operating system or hardware specific features, due to the lower nature of rust…

[timid quartz]

says the lang that has some reliance on weird C behavior

[spare quartz]

like?

[timid quartz]

idk I was warned that if I made a JVM in rust I’d have to find a way to emulate some weird C behavior

[spare quartz]

I need specifics

because if you’re making a JVM you’re expected to create a standard environment for the code running atop it

it’s not just an interpreter, after all

[timid quartz]

• incremental compilation so you only get hit with a long compile once
• who needs dynamic loading of code but also there’s definitely a crate for that
• can’t use same code but conditional compilation is a thing and just code well so your stuff can be mostly cross platform

[spare quartz]

you left out instrumentation and optimization across platforms w/o needing a recompilation

but dynamic loading of code allows for… again, instrumentation, but also easier remote function invocation, updating, etc…

[timid quartz]

what is instrumentation, sounds like something out of Evangelion

[spare quartz]

monitoring program state

[timid quartz]

that can be done

[spare quartz]

but not with the language itself

[timid quartz]

ok boo hoo

by your logic JS is also the perfect language

[spare quartz]

no

[timid quartz]

(It’s not)

[spare quartz]

totally different

JS cannot do nearly the things the JVM can

[timid quartz]

JS is easy to write, cross platform, runs as expected, gets compiled native where possible, has auto mem mgmt, intrinsically safe, has npm

Same for Lua

[spare quartz]

yes, but it cannot load code in the same manner as the JVM, instrument itself, it cannot run as optimized as the JVM, it isn’t type safe

[timid quartz]

ok TS then for type safe

[spare quartz]

That’s not type safe

And you can’t run TS

[timid quartz]

tell that to deno

and bun

[spare quartz]

Transpiles to JS during runtime most likely

[timid quartz]

JVM bad and it will always be bad

[spare quartz]

rust bad and it will always be bad

[timid quartz]

rust GOOD and will always be GOOD

[spare quartz]

queerer words have never been spoken

[spare quartz]

additionally, NEITHER OF YOUR STANDARD LIBRARIES ARE AS GOOD AS THE JVMS!!

you will both be library dependent until the heat death of the universe.

i rest my case.

[timid quartz]

Ok we’ll be supported by our vibrant community of libraries that get updated frequently whereas your lang waits for an eternity just for a terrible API to get fossilized in your stdlib

like before Rust had async it was a language extension as a library

[spare quartz]

“terribly api” he says as some of the most concise stuff in the JVM has been there since version 1.2

[timid quartz]

meanwhile JVM had to wait on it to get fossilized years later

[spare quartz]

what

the JVM has had multiple avenues of concurrency for eons

[timid quartz]

JVM still doesn’t have Vectors whereas if Rust didn’t and wanted them then it could just be a crate

[spare quartz]

we have vectors, actually

hell

we’ve had vectors if you count external libraries as you’re doing now

[timid quartz]

just because your stdlib is bloated doesn’t mean it’s good

[spare quartz]

nope it does

copium your stdlib doesn’t have smart card I/O…

[timid quartz]

what even is an io and a nio

[timid quartz]

But a crate (probably) does

[spare quartz]

external library

🗿

there is no limit to our power

[timid quartz]

you’re limited to your bloated stdlib

[spare quartz]

nuh

[timid quartz]

There is no limit to Rust’s power

[spare quartz]

force a rust user to use only their language

and tell them to write a multithreaded HTTPS server

watch how they fall.

[timid quartz]

easy

power through crates

[spare quartz]

no crates.

just your language and what you have without cargo.

[timid quartz]

ok well I ain’t implementing TLS and crypto algos without crates

[spare quartz]

exactly

bad lang

[timid quartz]

mmmm nope

crates give us everything you have without them being fossilized and outdated in a stdlib that you have to wait on a lang update for

[spare quartz]

naw

[timid quartz]

and a bunch of RFCs and other processes and shit

[spare quartz]

the JEP was gods gift to man

https://tenor.com/view/java-duke-everywhere-computer-phone-gif-2655662629958065522

duke would CRUSH the crab

[timid quartz]

my crab is gonna drink all your coffee

[spare quartz]

don’t .

[timid quartz]

we all know the CLR is better than the JVM anyways

[spare quartz]

aw he’ll naw

[timid quartz]

C# is just better Java

[spare quartz]

aera got taken out by Microsoft

it’s so over

[timid quartz]

Nah

My loyalty is to the Rust Foundation

I also support Zig

[spare quartz]

fads

[timid quartz]

Zig? Maybe but it has some neat stuff and I want it to do well

Rust? No

And to Ada and C, even Java is a fad

[spare quartz]

noooope

JVM and Ada are the only things needed in life

[timid quartz]

I will drink your coffee and throw the mug at your bird and kill it

[spare quartz]

SEE

rust users are so violent

this is why their lang will fail

[timid quartz]

No it’s just me

I’m violent

[spare quartz]

it’s the violent video essays that are doing this

[timid quartz]

nahhh

[spare quartz]

so

it has come to our unfortunate news

our server is currently a weather station by accident

since the ethernet cable to the server is unshielded, its moderately affected by weather in the local area (new york state)

[lavish dove]

lmfao

[timid quartz]

lmao

JVM and Ada can’t save you from that

(nor could Rust but)

[spare quartz]

ultimately its not terrible

its better than the wifi we were forced onto before when the NICs just didnt work

but the download dips depending on conditions

[timid quartz]

down with big Adacore and MIC

down with big Oracle and JVM

up with grassroots Rust Foundation

[spare quartz]

https://youtu.be/cniuDeNifeA

[timid quartz]

👎

[spare quartz]

MIC FTW

IN NO EVENT WILL ORACLE BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, OR DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, REVENUE, DATA OR DATA USE, INCURRED BY YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION IN CONTRACT OR TORT, EVEN IF ORACLE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. ORACLE'S ENTIRE LIABILITY FOR DAMAGES UNDER THIS AGREEMENT SHALL IN NO EVENT EXCEED ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS (U.S. $1,000).

Accordingly, You confirm:

• You will not download, provide, make available or otherwise export or re-export the Programs, directly or indirectly, to countries prohibited by applicable laws and regulations nor to citizens, nationals or residents of those countries.
• You are not listed on the United States Department of Treasury lists of Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons, Specially Designated Terrorists, and Specially Designated Narcotic Traffickers, nor are You listed on the United States Department of Commerce Table of Denial Orders.
• You will not download or otherwise export or re-export the Programs, directly or indirectly, to persons on the above mentioned lists.
• You will not use the Programs for, and will not allow the Programs to be used for, any purposes prohibited by applicable law, including, without limitation, for the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons of mass destruction.

[timid quartz]

This is one of many reasons why Rust is better

[spare quartz]

whats your reason

[timid quartz]

For using rust?

[spare quartz]

why is rust better in this context

Btw am drawing rn

[timid quartz]

Uh it doesn’t have all the limited liability or terms of use stuff lol

[spare quartz]

the only terms of use for Java is you don’t use it for WMDs or give it to terrorists 😭

are you saying you’d want to do those things with rust?

Are you a terrorist, Aera??

[timid quartz]

free as in free beer

[spare quartz]

what???

[timid quartz]

also zero cost abstractions and macros 💪

[timid quartz]

what are your thoughts on Swift when you wake up

[lavish dove]

Lmao

[lavish dove]

I think I like ARM now

or atleast I thought, and then I was reading more documentation and every feature I liked about arm (that was present on the GBA) was removed before I was even born lmao

[spare quartz]

Tried it

Think it has potential

Not for me though

[timid quartz]

[spare quartz]

Tbf

When I say I tried it

[timid quartz]

It doesn’t have native network sockets so that’s kind of a turn off

[spare quartz]

I meant I tried learning it like, 6 years ago, when I was kinda dumb

So maybe it’s better now for me idk

[timid quartz]

lo

[spare quartz]

…opback

[spare quartz]

Wdym

[timid quartz]

like I think you can only do network sockets via a library

[spare quartz]

but that’s perfect for you…

[timid quartz]

lol

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/network

ok maybe not

[spare quartz]

one thing Abt swift though is that it’s basically locked to apple

I get that’s good from a job perspective but it’s not as capable as

THE JVM!!

https://tenor.com/view/fairly-oddparents-mr-crocker-cartoon-insane-crazy-gif-17650933

[timid quartz]

kinda yes but it is possible to use it elsewhere

[spare quartz]

possible doesn’t equate to nice to use though

[timid quartz]

I’ve not really tried

But they have put work into the cross-platform support

[spare quartz]

what are the IDEs available

[timid quartz]

this really is you with the JVM

[spare quartz]

I know XCode but that’s it

[timid quartz]

theres an LSP from what im seeing

so basically anything that supports that

eg vscode

[spare quartz]

(Microsoft Xcode)

[timid quartz]

swifts memory management is also interesting cause it’s all arcs under the hood iirc

[spare quartz]

oh so its just RAII level 2

almost like… a certain language

that’s green

[timid quartz]

but swift isn’t 50 years obsolete

[spare quartz]

no.

[timid quartz]

idk if swift can support as many platforms as the jvm though

idk what cross compilation looks like

well...maybe cause it's llvm under the hood that's not a concern

[spare quartz]

https://wiki.openjdk.org/display/Build/Supported+Build+Platforms

wow they support PowerPC64?

[timid quartz]

https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/rustc/platform-support.html

[spare quartz]

About the same as JVM

Host 1 wise, anyways

[timid quartz]

yeah was gonna say

scroll down 😈

[spare quartz]

Tiier＊　2/3 are kinda ehhh as they’re not 100% compatible

Since all tools will work for all Java code no matter the platform

[timid quartz]

still

yuuuge platform support

[spare quartz]

but you dont have your own architecture 🧌

[timid quartz]

meh who needs it

[spare quartz]

everyone good.

[timid quartz]

kinda useless when nobody uses it though

[spare quartz]

no

[timid quartz]

yes

just like Ada, if nobody uses PicoJava, why keep it around

[spare quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/mods-ban-this-woman-ban-this-woman-mods-patience-im-starting-to-lose-my-patience-gif-18430669262617157320

just read an interesting post

if you have an AOT compiler work on a VM with JIT compilation

what exactly happens

(e.g. JVM on x86 AOT'd to apple silicon)

[timid quartz]

idk

It JITs it and then calls a loader and then runs it?

[spare quartz]

yeah but

the JIT inside the VM is going to be compiling the code thats being run through it

so if it's compiling x86 code

how does the apple silicon converter handle that

just also convert whatever x86 it spews out?

[timid quartz]

ohhh ic

Rosetta 2

Which yeah basically runs x86 on arm

[spare quartz]

apple gotta stop making Wine

[timid quartz]

Shoulda stayed with PowerPC fr

[spare quartz]

they used to use motorola 68000 too

[timid quartz]

that’s probably why the JVM supports powerpc

because that used to be Apple’s thing lol

[spare quartz]

it'd make more sense if the JVM supported SPARC

since that was suns then oracles thing

but they dropped that a while ago i guess

[timid quartz]

SPARC is super dead

[spare quartz]

then again who uses ppc64 now

[timid quartz]

enough people to warrant support ig

[timid quartz]

enum ArithmeticExpression {
    case number(Int)
    indirect case addition(ArithmeticExpression, ArithmeticExpression)
    indirect case multiplication(ArithmeticExpression, ArithmeticExpression)
}

this is like

The one thing I found interesting in swift

[spare quartz]

i have unfortunate news

the bayachao discord server is slowly learning japanese 🙏

[timid quartz]

FTP is a very old and dilapidated protocol. FTP is inappropriate to use on the modern internet because it provides no security. Because of this, Apple has no supported FTP APIs.
Your best option here is to switch to a newer protocol, like HTTP. It may require some coordination with your server folks, but that will pay off in the long term.

[spare quartz]

x is an insecure protocol

use y, an insecure protocol instead

[timid quartz]

やばい

[spare quartz]

いいえ、よい

https://youtu.be/vB-xSv1qAnY?t=50

[timid quartz]

kill

imagine being reliant on Java

man you don't even have coroutines or channels in your stdlib

have to use kotlinx

[spare quartz]

??

yes we do??

https://docs.oracle.com/en/java/javase/24/docs/api/java.base/java/nio/channels/Channels.html
https://docs.oracle.com/en/java/javase/21/core/virtual-threads.html

[timid quartz]

imagine being reliant on java

[spare quartz]

they're not reliant on java??!?

[timid quartz]

they're obviously not "standard" enough to be referenced in the official kotlin docs

which point you to kotlinx

[spare quartz]

language tries to make you use stuff made specifically for its language

clearly.

everything in the JDK is standard, that point makes no sense

[timid quartz]

meanwhile https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/sync/mpsc/fn.channel.html

[spare quartz]

Channels has been a thing since Java 1.4

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1030984322766880839/1124275774166421555/caption.gif

[timid quartz]

this runtime sucks we need a replacement

[spare quartz]

rust sucks we need a replacement

[timid quartz]

the jvm sucks we need a replacement

[spare quartz]

❌

[timid quartz]

imagine running your stuff in a 🤢 vm 🤢

and not native

[spare quartz]

Java仮想マシン

i bet your dumb language isnt even in the dictionary

[timid quartz]

no real world use found for "write once run anywhere"

[spare quartz]

no real use found for "the borrow checker"

[timid quartz]

❌

[spare quartz]

✅

[timid quartz]

no real world justification found for a "garbage collector"

[spare quartz]

"garabe"

[timid quartz]

real programmers don't need one

[spare quartz]

that wouldn't happen if your memory was safely collected by a garbage collector

[timid quartz]

my memory is safely managed by the borrow checker

I have an idea actually

what if we both used ruby

[spare quartz]

ew

die

[timid quartz]

whyy

[spare quartz]

ruby sucks

[timid quartz]

nuh uh

[spare quartz]

i still want my

JVM run os

[timid quartz]

gross

[spare quartz]

no

whats gross is writing an os in rust

[timid quartz]

imagine your entire os being a vm

your entire os is fake!!

[spare quartz]

isnt that like

every os nowadays though

[timid quartz]

ok but yours even moreso

cause it's all running atop a vm

[spare quartz]

okay but it'd be the safest ever

kernel panic? try catch

checkmate lib

[timid quartz]

you're the type of person to do this when writing JS

process.on('uncaughtException', function(err) { 
  // :3
}) 

[timid quartz]

anyways a RUST os would be the safest ever

[spare quartz]

rust mfs when i cause the SATA controller to destroy all hard drives

(it was done in a memory safe way)

[timid quartz]

jvm mfs when I port their runtime to a new platform

(their code still doesn't work)

[spare quartz]

it LITERALLY does

you could say the same thing about rust

[timid quartz]

nah

rust would work

if it compiles it runs 💪

[spare quartz]

oops all Illegal instruction

[timid quartz]

meanwhile jvm still waiting on gc pause

[spare quartz]

ZGC makes it sub millisecond 😁

[timid quartz]

but rust has 0ms pauses

💪

cause there ARE no pauses

[spare quartz]

it actually has pauses of 1 second - infinity

[timid quartz]

also imagine having to use multiple optimization flags 🤢

[spare quartz]

(the entire thing is so bad its a pause)

[spare quartz]

we dont!

:3

[timid quartz]

rust? cargo b --release 💪

[spare quartz]

java has no optimization flags

[timid quartz]

-XX:+UseStringDeduplication -XX:+UseZGC

[spare quartz]

UseZGC is a GC configuration option, not optimization

UseStringDeduplication is most likely already on

[timid quartz]

it's basically an optimization

[spare quartz]

nope

[timid quartz]

because if you don't use it then your gc sucks

(and your gc sucks even with it)

[spare quartz]

Serial or G1GC might be better

depends on dataset

[timid quartz]

imagine NEEDING a gc

[spare quartz]

okay

use the no op gc then

[timid quartz]

couldn't be RUST

[spare quartz]

:3

[timid quartz]

Rust doesn't need a GC

the memory is dropped once it's out of use

:3

[spare quartz]

yeah you do

[timid quartz]

Rust can clean up after itself

[spare quartz]

your entire lang needs to be gc'd

[timid quartz]

JVM needs a special garbage collector

[spare quartz]

its so bad

[timid quartz]

your entire VM needs to be GC'd along with everything that runs on top of it

[spare quartz]

https://youtu.be/fNlxMGy3hr0

i hope rust burrrns

[timid quartz]

I hope your VM cup breaks and all the Java leaks out

[spare quartz]

AHHHHHHHH MY ROOM WINDOW IS OPEN

IM ON FIRE

[timid quartz]

GOOD

it's all cause you use KOTLIN and THE JVM

just face it

your bloated runtime isnt performant

rust is the future

[spare quartz]

translate this

[timid quartz]

uh

そんな事無いよ

that's what it looks like

[spare quartz]

if your IME was written in the JVM

it would probably already know what it was yesterday.

[timid quartz]

well if my IME was written in Rust it would have known what it was last week

[spare quartz]

nah

[timid quartz]

yeah

[spare quartz]

go use your dumb LLVM backend

probably sucks like the rest of your lang!!

[timid quartz]

llvm

[spare quartz]

LL

VM

[timid quartz]

but it's not really a vm

[spare quartz]

ughhh shuttt

rust in that can..

[timid quartz]

100ms 🤢

[spare quartz]

0.15 ms zgc:

[timid quartz]

0ms rust :3

[spare quartz]

<program lifetime>ms rust*

all trash

who tf trying to mail us at modrinth.javart.zip

[timid quartz]

You also have to remember this pause is still incurred even if there’s nothing to GC

Cause it has to check first

[spare quartz]

not quite

[timid quartz]

With Rust there’s no such thing :3

[spare quartz]

the pause may or may not be incurred, depends on gc architecture

its more prevalent in cases like minecraft where they're just allocating memory for the sake of it and maxing it out with many mods

test ignore http://modrinth.javart.zip

test ignore https://modrinth.javart.zip

discords bot doesn't follow redirects

sad

uses this DNS query pattern of weird casing though

[timid quartz]

what about zgc hm

[spare quartz]

probably won't be incurred

[timid quartz]

more like

definitely will

100ms pause to check

[spare quartz]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/935989994735169546/1204292499661914152/image0-9.gif

[timid quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/ferris-rust-rustlang-crab-cute-gif-26396486

[spare quartz]

ew

fat fuck

https://tenor.com/view/java-duke-everywhere-computer-phone-gif-2655662629958065522

oh yeah

i found one thing your mascot will NEVER have

[timid quartz]

who needs one

[spare quartz]

http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~jeff/Duke/png/Thumbsup1.png

[timid quartz]

What a typical JVM user looks like

[spare quartz]

no

we look like the peak that is #1264496483957346346 message

[timid quartz]

thoughts on golang

[spare quartz]

idk too much about it but it has nearly the same hypetrain as rust

average rust user btw

[spare quartz]

kotlin/native isnt for speed

[timid quartz]

Rust is :3 https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:828/format:webp/1*NGoOi5pn5ebitOZhfTddEw.png

[spare quartz]

ok

[timid quartz]

vert.x is supposed to be a new http server in Java

Look at that speed

And with only 12mb of ram :3

[spare quartz]

ive never heard of vert.x

[timid quartz]

How much ram did you say your http server uses again…

55mb?

bloated

[spare quartz]

around that mark yes

[timid quartz]

pure bloat

[spare quartz]

i am going to say this once more

ok

[timid quartz]

although serious question does it cache the directory structure or re-traverse it every time a request is made

[timid quartz]

USE RUST SMH

[spare quartz]

wdym

[timid quartz]

Like if I GET javart.zip twice, does it re-traverse the root dir on the second request or does it cache the traversal

[spare quartz]

retraverses since it's not trivial to "know" when a directory's been changed with certainty

[timid quartz]

can stat it

[spare quartz]

not platform agnostic

[timid quartz]

grr

idk browser cache control then

[spare quartz]

prevents the page from being up to date

[timid quartz]

user can just Shift + click reload

[spare quartz]

i dont want that

[spare quartz]

the platform agnostic way (trivially) would be with modification date reading but that's not "certain"

our system isn't an entire https toolox or framework like vert.x or actix thuogh

it's just works at the protocol level like our other servers

funny

JS outperforms actix

[timid quartz]

what website is that

I forgor

found it

[spare quartz]

https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r21&hw=ph&test=fortune

[timid quartz]

yikes

rust takes 7 out of the top 10

don't even see java until 13

and js until 15

[spare quartz]

where is this

[timid quartz]

https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r23

round 23

the most up to date one

:p

[spare quartz]

boooooooring

[timid quartz]

proof that rust is better

💪

your silly little jvm gets hung up on gc pauses whereas rust just blazes by

[spare quartz]

ooohhh burnnn

you got beat by both kotlin and js..

[timid quartz]

nah

results just biased

rust better

rust always better

[spare quartz]

maybe you'll have to finally admit your language is what it's name implies..

rusty and corroded.

[timid quartz]

what it doesnt show is that rust used like 2mb of memory whereas js and kotlin used liek 2gb

[spare quartz]

efficient use of memory

[timid quartz]

I love starting up any intellij product and hearing my pc fear for its life

vs starting up zed (code editor written in rust) and my pc is quiet

[spare quartz]

your pc is biased

[timid quartz]

why did you abandon your Ada http server for Kotlin

is it JUST because of the tooling for Ada?

[spare quartz]

yeah

[timid quartz]

cause I thought you reached like...peak http server when you made the one in Ada

oh dam

[spare quartz]

dont get me wrong the stuff w/ vsc and gnat are good its just

not ergonomic to use in comparison to kotlin

[timid quartz]

makes sense

kotlin has the entirety of JB behind it

but do you have any terminal emulators written in kotlin :3

we have Warp and Alacritty at the very least

[spare quartz]

i mean ic ould write one

[timid quartz]

oooo user interface 👻

you'd also probably use the horrendously ugly default material theme

[spare quartz]

no

i cant use the kotlin compose stuff

i dont understnad it

[timid quartz]

then how would you make a terminal emulator

[spare quartz]

JavaFX with gluon probably

[timid quartz]

JAVAFX

🤢

[timid quartz]

Why would anyone EVER WILLINGLY use javafx

WHY

[timid quartz]

use dioxus (rust)

[spare quartz]

can dioxus do this

[timid quartz]

ugh that's horrible

[timid quartz]

probably

[spare quartz]

nope*

[timid quartz]

but also if you're doing 3d

use like idk

bevy with egui

[spare quartz]

wtf is a bevy

wtf is an egui

[timid quartz]

why would you ever use javafx willingly

[spare quartz]

because its good

[timid quartz]

learn the kotlin compose stuff atp

[spare quartz]

no

no

schizo

[timid quartz]

no u

[spare quartz]

😭

[timid quartz]

rust is just better

[timid quartz]

https://github.com/PistonDevelopers/hematite

[spare quartz]

seem it

it sucks

[timid quartz]

probably runs faster than anything your jvm could run

[spare quartz]

nope

:3

ewww'

look at all those deps you use

i bet javafx alone could run at 900000 fps

[timid quartz]

@lyric mesa kotlin is scary and rust is not, yes or no

[spare quartz]

biased

[timid quartz]

nah

[spare quartz]

hold on

let me go huff some isopropyl fumes

[timid quartz]

oh I forgot about the uh

extensible_image_archiver

trol

[spare quartz]

yeah

stuopid

[timid quartz]

gross

[spare quartz]

nope

[timid quartz]

gross scary code

[spare quartz]

ewww

bad code..

[timid quartz]

SO YOU AGREE

KOTLIN CODE IS BAD

HAHAHA

[spare quartz]

yeah

that your kotlin code is bad

get better

[timid quartz]

nope you think all kotlin code is bad

[spare quartz]

んんんんん～

[timid quartz]

rust will accept you any time

[spare quartz]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1099482737234169876/1172630447684063232/watermark.gif?ex=65610435&is=654e8f35&hm=065e4e9e37b7ecd796ff74e9402ae60a142543c8ac40b52eb5a7603800d1de38&

[timid quartz]

@wheat zinc kotlin bad rust good, agree or disagree

[spare quartz]

STOP PINGING EVERYONE!!!

[timid quartz]

no

https://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/outlook/archive/2025/day1otlk_20250414_1630_prt.gif

seems that we're getting some interesting weather this afternoon

[spare quartz]

its cause of rust

ow my eyes huhrt

[timid quartz]

I forgot about the image archiver because kotlin was just that bad 🥱

[spare quartz]

MY FUCKING EYES!!

okay i think mi juist gonna take a sower and lay down 😭

[timid quartz]

typical kotlin user

rust users dont suffer this

[spare quartz]

i think im getting cat allergies 😭

[timid quartz]

oh that sucks

[spare quartz]

"i stopped coding in kotlin and ada"

[timid quartz]

cat allergies would never stop me from having cats though

[timid quartz]

"I stopped coding in Rust"

You should write something else in Rust

[spare quartz]

never

unusable lang

[timid quartz]

Nuh uh

perfectly useable lang

[timid quartz]

Does Kotlin even have records and record pattern matching

[spare quartz]

wdym by record pattern matching

and yes we have data classes

[timid quartz]

String result = switch (o) {
    case Location l -> l.name();
    default -> "default";
};

[spare quartz]

what does "Location" mean

[timid quartz]

public record Location (String name, GPSPoint gpsPoint) {}

[spare quartz]

data class Beta(val name: String, val gpsPoint: GPSPoint)
val alpha = Beta("meow")

when (alpha) {
  is Beta -> alpha.name
  else -> "default"
}

[timid quartz]

but like Java has this so

Kotlin L

why use Kotlin

[spare quartz]

?

[timid quartz]

like

whats the point of kotlin

if java has the same stuff

[spare quartz]

its more ergonomic to write?

[timid quartz]

says the ada writer

[spare quartz]

ok?

[timid quartz]

some of the reasons you like ada are the same reasons that make it not ergonomic to write

[spare quartz]

like?

[timid quartz]

with Ada.Text_IO;
procedure MyProcedure is
  A : Integer := 7;
  B : String (1 .. 7);
begin
  Ada.Text_IO.Put_Line (B & A'Image);
end MyProcedure;

that's not ergonomic

[spare quartz]

it's fine to write

[timid quartz]

vs

fn my_function() {
  let a = 7;
  let b = "whatever";
  println!("{a}{b}");
}

[spare quartz]

you can write in that syntax if you'd like using GNAT extensions

i just don't write that way though

[timid quartz]

or

fun my_function() {
  val a = 7
  val b = "whatever"
  print("$a$b")
}

[spare quartz]

the problem isn't writing in ada, it's the tooling around it
additionally, i think you lost the plot with why kotlin is better than java to write

it's just these tiny "keyword" specific things that are troublesome to write

it's what you have to do to achieve a specific behavior of a class and the methods within

[timid quartz]

no im just saying you can't really claim ergonomics if you're willing to write long keywords and stuff for Ada

[spare quartz]

NOT these tiny*

[timid quartz]

example?

[spare quartz]

i dont think you've ever seen java code

[timid quartz]

I have

[spare quartz]

clearly not

[timid quartz]

I took two classes in Java 😭

and did robotics in Java in high school 😭

[spare quartz]

and you really can't think of a single example?

give me a second

[timid quartz]

no because java is fine to write

like sure you have public static void main(String[] args)

but

[spare quartz]

that's fine

again

give me a second

var a = 5
  protected set

private int a = 5;

protected void setA(int n) {
  this.a = n;
}

int getA() {
  return this.a;
}

do you really not see the difference here?

[timid quartz]

ok sure boilerplate whatever

me when C#

public int a { get; protected set; }

[spare quartz]

or the concept of extension functions

[timid quartz]

java probably has something similar

[spare quartz]

it doesn't

you'd need to prefix all of those calls to a class with all of those as static methods taking in the stream as an argument

also .use doesn't exist

you need a try .. finally

[spare quartz]

var a = 5
  set(arg) { field = arg / 5 }

additionally this

fun a() = 5

or this

[timid quartz]

this is just

static int a() {
  return 5;
}

[spare quartz]

example

fun a() = this.also {
  // procedural function
  // act on this while returning this
}

fun a() = this.let {
  // transformative function
  // act on this and return this blocks return
}

[timid quartz]

WhateverClass a() {
  // do whatever on this
  return this;
}

[spare quartz]

fun a() = (this.a + 5).toString(16).padStart(2, '0')

you really want to write 3 lines for the smallest of functions?

as well as the type, everytime?

[timid quartz]

ok but you said it yourself that small things like that aren't issues

[spare quartz]

i said "keyword" things

not "small" things

[timid quartz]

I mean

those are all essentially keyword things

[spare quartz]

not really

[pallid loom]

are we arguing which language is better

[spare quartz]

i dunno

[pallid loom]

for the 50th billionth time even though everyone knows that the whole world runs on outdated price of shit programming languages that haven't been updated since the collapse of yugoslavia

[spare quartz]

he IS a rust programmer..

[timid quartz]

it's not an argument

it's me trying to bash into atp's head that rust is the best

and atp not listening (like always)

[spare quartz]

why are you doing that with java

are you stupid

[timid quartz]

well part of that is "kotlin bad"

there are two parts

the "kotlin bad" part and "rust good" part

[pallid loom]

does it really matter

[timid quartz]

mmm yes :3

in reality not really but

[pallid loom]

most if not all programming mistakes are logic mistakes and not the mistakes of the language

[timid quartz]

im starved for entertainment

[spare quartz]

aeras plan is to waste my life so i cant do anything to prove kotlin is better than rust

[pallid loom]

rust wouldn't have saved any of my projects

something that has the potential is just types but I really don't give a shit about memory safety

[spare quartz]

hey you should use a jvm

[pallid loom]

does it run on 3 billion devices

that's a requirement for me

[spare quartz]

well

[timid quartz]

struct MyStruct();

impl std::fmt::Display for MyStruct {
    fn fmt(&self, f: &mut std::fmt::Formatter<'_>) -> std::fmt::Result {
        "X".fmt(f)
    }
}

fn main() {
    
    let x = MyStruct{};
    let y = "Y";
    
    println!("{:_^9}", x); // WHY isnt this properly formatted?
    println!("{:_^9}", x.to_string());
    println!("{:_^9}", y);
}

[spare quartz]

oracle removed that splash image like

years ago..

so who knows

[timid quartz]

did not know you could do that with println

[pallid loom]

30 billion now

[spare quartz]

hold on

[timid quartz]

the output is

____X____
____X____
____Y____

[pallid loom]

exactly

[timid quartz]

anyways rust good kotlin and ada not good

[pallid loom]

like the only time memory safety is useful is for critical shit

[timid quartz]

give me entertainment

[pallid loom]

Ada is used in military weapons....

[timid quartz]

could be rust, probably is C

[pallid loom]

One makes your computer explode while it's compiling taking every single hertz of clock time and the other makes people explode

[spare quartz]

it's a mix of c and ada

same in jets and planes

[timid quartz]

ok but that only happens once

incremental compilation

[pallid loom]

don't care

like I honestly don't even get the full thing of memory safety

[spare quartz]

live feed of an alternative world where rust was used instead of MISRA C

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/KqAmH_L2JP0RtyFF8phsglnCjNGO7dS8LMWvET_WMrc/https/media.tenor.com/4tUjasKsaa0AAAPo/explosion-green-screen.mp4

[pallid loom]

aren't oss already implementing their own memory safety

[timid quartz]

one makes your computer explode while it's compiling (rust) the other makes your computer explode while you're running it (java)

[pallid loom]

and it's useless for anything but when someone attacks it

[timid quartz]

anyways I need entertainment and going "rust good" to atp is the easiest form of that

[pallid loom]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/694395065166069761/1000958559271530546/attachment-1.gif

[spare quartz]

yes because you're ragebaiting me!!!!!!

[timid quartz]

hehehe

[spare quartz]

make a network protcool or something instead of wasting both of our time!!!!!!!

[timid quartz]

nooo I have school work

[spare quartz]

stop going to school then

[timid quartz]

I wish

no lmfao

bad teo

bad

[spare quartz]

average croatian

[timid quartz]

?warn

[upbeat badge]

**Command:** ?warn

Description: Warn a member
Cooldown: 3 seconds
Usage:
?warn [user] (reason)
Example:
?warn @NoobLance Stop posting lewd images

[pallid loom]

the Yugo blood

[spare quartz]

tbf

here someone would just shoot up the place

so we're not any better

[pallid loom]

did you know people actually detonated schools on accident here

[spare quartz]

how

[timid quartz]

here someone would teach the kids kotlin

[pallid loom]

hehe helium tank makes your voice go all cool

uh oh a spark from someone lighting their cigarette

[spare quartz]

correlation=causation
teaching kids rust makes them 500% more likely to commit genocide

[spare quartz]

wait but isn't helium almost completely inert

[timid quartz]

@pallid loom im also chronically indecisive so half of the time I spend on any project is deciding which lang to use

[spare quartz]

or just pressure bomb

[timid quartz]

I think Ada, Kotlin, and Rust are nice so

it's hard to decide

but arguing with atp makes me choose rust :3

[pallid loom]

it is very flammable

[spare quartz]

i could've sworn it wasn't

it doesn't fit anywhere in the tetrahedron...

[pallid loom]

wait what am I stupid

is it not

[spare quartz]

no helium is like

super inert

hydrogen is very flammable though

[pallid loom]

guess I got them confused

I just know people set classrooms on fire using disinfectant during covid

[timid quartz]

that's fun

[spare quartz]

christ 😭

[pallid loom]

???

that's to be expected

people also threw tables out of the 3rd floor

[spare quartz]

do people not practice fire safety??? 😭

[pallid loom]

no?

we don't have fire alarms

[spare quartz]

WHY

[pallid loom]

extinguishers haven't been checked in 10 years

our electric systems has basic breakers and no GFCIs

[spare quartz]

that's also us

but you guys don't have any like

fire marshals or whatever

[timid quartz]

ok this is programming chat

[spare quartz]

aera i send bayachao every waking moment here it's fineeee

[timid quartz]

keep arguing about kotlin

[spare quartz]

no

[timid quartz]

yes

[spare quartz]

make me a way to get more bayachao art

or make dhcp

[timid quartz]

I basically already have it

[spare quartz]

where

[timid quartz]

extensible_image_archiver