💽Programming Chat v2

[spare quartz]

remember all constants must be defined in the loaf/root/whatever you want

defining a variable with that constant as its parent doesnt really make much sense if you won't change it

[timid quartz]

but you said no constants

so

everything has to be variable

[spare quartz]

i said no constants in crumbs

only the loaf

[timid quartz]

ohh

ic ic ic

well considering how you can't even define variables in the crumb

[spare quartz]

you cant initialize a variable in a crumb with a constant defined aside it, just one from the loaf (same with datatypes, define them in the loaf)

[timid quartz]

oh so this is literally basically a class file

[spare quartz]

yeah kinda

[timid quartz]

idk this sounds easy to optimize but also possibly hell to optimize

especially when you go to remove dead code

cause you can't optimize on a per-function basis you have to optimize the ENTIRE program

[spare quartz]

the goal is for a program written in it to be completely formally verifiable with ease

[spare quartz]

how so

[timid quartz]

well

[spare quartz]

oh yeah i should mention one thing i came up with the concept of this language while in the bathroom lol

[timid quartz]

-- loaf
x = 0
y = 0

function main is
begin
  do_thing
  do_other

-- crumb 1
function do_thing is
begin
  x := 1  -- seemingly useless write
  y := 2
  return y
end

-- crumb 2
function do_other is
begin
  x := x + 2
  return x
end

[spare quartz]

illegal

you cannot set x within a crumb

x must be derived in a variable within that crumb

[timid quartz]

does that make y := 2 also invalid

[spare quartz]

yes

[timid quartz]

ok uhh

[spare quartz]

a crumb can only use variables defined within itself, and if it wants to get constant values or datatypes for those variables, it must derive them from the loaf

[timid quartz]

oh so you would have to pass x and y in as parameters

and because x isn't returned it would basically be useless

[spare quartz]

/illegal yeah

[timid quartz]

ok that's not too bad

[spare quartz]

i wonder how i wanna represent the concept of functions in this lang

and what restrictions ill put on them (e.g. disallow crumb-crumb calling, crumb-loaf-crumb only?)

[timid quartz]

void return types :3

[spare quartz]

i also like

don't wanna get the concept of a computer TOO disconnected from the lang

[timid quartz]

void return types confirmed

[spare quartz]

❌

[spare quartz]

since already as it is a crumb can basically be defined as it's own "unit"

which isn't how it actually works when compiled but yada yada

[timid quartz]

how would you formally verify something like writing to a pointer in memory

[spare quartz]

i haven't defined memory semantics yet so no idea

[timid quartz]

disallow memory ops :3

[spare quartz]

i was also thinking about exception mgmt

i kinda want something like rust

but a little... less machinery

[timid quartz]

please please do errors as values

dont do throw-try-catch

[spare quartz]

naah

errors will not be any value

x := faulty_function | ok -> it
                     | e1 -> 0
                     | e2 -> 2

my brain my visualizing something like this (ofc not actually like this since binary but)

mmm

the errors themselves will not be an "object"

but they can carry data with them when they're propagated up

something like e1 -> it.reason

e1 can be thought of more as a goto label when an "exception" with its label is propagted up

[timid quartz]

well I think this violates your initial principle of the language not defining any data types

[spare quartz]

how so

[timid quartz]

because you're basically defining an exception type here

[spare quartz]

simple solution to that

define the exception type in the loaf

[timid quartz]

if you do errors as values, you can keep true to this by having users do that ^

and then have either a union return or multiple return values

[spare quartz]

i think errors as labels is a better idea

[timid quartz]

or have users write a type that encapsulates a success and an error value

[spare quartz]

a more troubling issue is the case of making a stdlib

[timid quartz]

but how are you going to get from a return value to a label

[spare quartz]

wdym

(oh yeah i need to write this conversation down later so i dont forget it all)

[timid quartz]

idk it just feels weird

like in the underlying

[spare quartz]

the actual impl?

[timid quartz]

yeah

[spare quartz]

push error_data
goto error_label

error_label:
pop error_data
act on error_data

this is basically just a fancy cover up for what is essentially a match-case

should note you have to handle every possible type of exception raised from whatever operation you're doing

and i'll probably make exceptions as pinpoint as possible since i really don't like the idea of a generic IO_Exception

[timid quartz]

honestly....don't

;3

[spare quartz]

yeah that's what i was thinking for an initial release

but having to write breadcrumbs for syscall mgmt for a simple hello world sounds rough

[timid quartz]

let your stdlib be some markdown docs of "this is how you do IO" "this is how you syscall" whatever

[spare quartz]

i'll probably do something like ada in that regard

higher-order loaf that defines an RTL for a breadcrumb project

[timid quartz]

CALL IT A PAN

!!!

[spare quartz]

😭

[timid quartz]

stroke of genius

DUDE

you have the loaf

loaf gets supported by the pan

loaf has crumbs

GENIUS

[spare quartz]

OH YEAH

one more thing

im not sure how ill do low level operations like syscalls in the first place since

determinability

i'll probably force it onto the programmer to define the full semantics of what they're trying to do

[timid quartz]

uh look at how spark does it

[spare quartz]

they don't let you use Asm

at least iirc

[timid quartz]

honestly

Make it where

If you pull in anything that needs a syscall interface

[spare quartz]

mov 1,5 | ok  -> nil
        | #GP -> 0

:3

[timid quartz]

Verifiability goes out the window

[spare quartz]

i'll figure something out when the time comes

that'll take a lot of reading on the linux kernel though

i don't like the idea of losing one of the biggest reasons of a language for an interface thats required by virutally every program

[rustic vine]

yall are nerds 🤓

[spare quartz]

(one possible issue of an RTL though is... that'll strain the compiler a ton if the stdlib is huge)

[rustic vine]

case and point

[spare quartz]

no.

[rustic vine]

oh, sorry, apparently its

case in point

[spare quartz]

yes.

[rustic vine]

unfortunate im not first language is english

[spare quartz]

why use big phrase when little word do trick

[rustic vine]

thats why you should learn chinese because all the characters are little

[spare quartz]

idk they're pretty fat though

[rustic vine]

no but u got a whole word in one

[spare quartz]

at the cost of a character that weighs like 900 pounds vs like

an i

[rustic vine]

the i weighs a lot it takes the lamp like 4 jumps to squash it

[spare quartz]

true..

oh yeah

harry whats your thoughts on going to prison for $1m and 20 years by using deepseek

[rustic vine]

HUH

[spare quartz]

https://www.livenowfox.com/news/deepseek-ban-senate-bill

[rustic vine]

please don't be real

LOL

its ok its another stupid bill that surely won't pass

[timid quartz]

i mean since english isn't his first language he's already going to be sent to a camp

[rustic vine]

its like that one bill that lets trump stay in for a 3rd term

[rustic vine]

um

[spare quartz]

please god be real 🙏

[rustic vine]

no hes got a point

[spare quartz]

wait

english wasn't my first lang either 😭

[rustic vine]

wait huh

[timid quartz]

welp

you're cooked

[rustic vine]

I thought you were as white as one can be

[spare quartz]

i was born speaking spanish as a child

and then cause i lived in ohio and cali for 7 years

[timid quartz]

sorry vro you're cooked idk what to say

[spare quartz]

i had to speak engli

[spare quartz]

https://imgur.com/NUnIV6n

[rustic vine]

thats my car when I pull up to the dealers

suddenly everything is broken

[spare quartz]

https://fixupx.com/LukasHozda/status/1887636921960013973/photo/1

[rustic vine]

HEY THATS JUST

thats gotta be cheating

hes cheating sir

SIR HES

HES CHEATING

https://tenor.com/view/zeng-this-guy-right-here-this-right-here-point-out-point-gif-23913867

[spare quartz]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

right i need to fix my sql parseer

[rustic vine]

😭

if I had the time u got to be doing all these things I think I would have more than 2 dollars to my name

[spare quartz]

yeah well i got $0

💪

[rustic vine]

😄

[timid quartz]

did roblox change the ui colors

I think they did

[hybrid hornet]

They did.

[pastel tinsel]

yeah

they rolled it out like

3 months ago to beta testers

amazed it took them this long to push it to prod

[timid quartz]

it's ass

old colors better

[pastel tinsel]

nah blue good

[rustic vine]

woah there just cause YOU'RE blue, doesn't mean the world HAS to be blue

wait im blue too

[spare quartz]

says the guy with a blue name

[rustic vine]

brah

thats a disaster

I didn't realize that

what even is your <@&1255534263600939149> role

what

@phyusicsis

[spare quartz]

i think thats for an admin

[rustic vine]

@physisics

brah

idk how to speel that

[lyric mesa]

physicist?

[rustic vine]

ye

does that make them better than me

[lyric mesa]

it's an advanced corporate rank

[rustic vine]

I think it does

yea I got no clue what that means

wth is advanced corporate

[rustic vine]

wha

oh

wait

oh

um

[spare quartz]

it just means we're better than you and yeah

[rustic vine]

can I have

thx

[spare quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-high-rank-highest-gif-12084311422915194233

[rustic vine]

atp uses ada and has it

so

and I don't

so

[spare quartz]

idk

dont you code in like

[rustic vine]

I should be at least equal level

[spare quartz]

umm

[rustic vine]

um what

[spare quartz]

bython

[rustic vine]

chill on python its goated

[spare quartz]

nah

bython

[rustic vine]

for scripting purposes

wth is bython

[spare quartz]

python with braces

[rustic vine]

ITS REAL?

[spare quartz]

tyeag

[rustic vine]

NOOOOOOOO THATS DISGUSTING

JUST USE A REAL LANGUAGE

[spare quartz]

like ada

[rustic vine]

real languages require more than 2 users

btw

[spare quartz]

okay well umm

explain the existence of a wikibook just for us

😎

[rustic vine]

for you 2?

[spare quartz]

😎

[rustic vine]

I suppose one of em wrote it

thats the only possibility

[spare quartz]

😭

[rustic vine]

wait I hope I didn't ping whoever has this

I don't think I can

it just shows up

[spare quartz]

you can't

[rustic vine]

win

@physicst

@Physisct

BRAH

HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT

[spare quartz]

<@&945386020847894568> just like how this wont work

<@&945385997519159376>

win

[rustic vine]

HUH

oh

[spare quartz]

<@&585546266180714497> give me your money

[rustic vine]

ye

sponsor a NAS for me

thx

[spare quartz]

ew

you probably have a server at home..

[rustic vine]

no bruh im broke I need it

[rustic vine]

ye I got a raspberry pi

[spare quartz]

😬

rich..

[rustic vine]

#rich

fr

living that good life

[spare quartz]

i do not care discrod1!!

[rustic vine]

#corp-critters

oh I can't see that one

ok high rank

just cause u rank above me

doesn't mean

[spare quartz]

its kyoto

[rustic vine]

anything

tokyo but they reorganized the letters??

[spare quartz]

probably idk i didnt watch it

[rustic vine]

wait but what is advanced corporate

nobody explained

[spare quartz]

okay so

you see the guys with the really blue rank

[rustic vine]

no

thats purple

[spare quartz]

<@&945386020155846718>

[rustic vine]

you're blind as hell

thats purple

wait

oh

[spare quartz]

idiot

[rustic vine]

ok look

its 12

[spare quartz]

i dont care im literally blind irl 😭

anyways

[rustic vine]

same

wait

what prescription

[spare quartz]

i don't have the papers on hand but whatever i have is bad enough to warrant my lenses being like

half an inch thick

[rustic vine]

ultra thick??

oh

that cant be good

[rustic vine]

ok go on

[spare quartz]

those people did some questionaire in anotehr server and got that rank cause they seemed cool

and they can send images n stuff cause of it

theres ranks aside it called physiicst and engnieer and its just being good at scripting or codnig or buiilding

[rustic vine]

oh im not good at that

damn

wait how'd they let you in

[spare quartz]

because i write bad lua

[rustic vine]

they must've lowered the standards

[spare quartz]

and the reviewers cant read lua

win

[rustic vine]

oh ok win

I'll submit my worst examples

[spare quartz]

anyways if you want it for whatever reason uhh lemme get it

how corp

[upbeat badge]

❓How 2 Corporate/Engineer/Physicist

If you're NOT in the Quantum Community Outreach Department:
Join https://discord.com/invite/6EeUPUVfGv and read the infoboard in its entirety.

Otherwise...
See #1204494038753878016 for how to apply.
-# You may need to read the infoboard if you can't access the channel above.

Last updated October 7th 2024

[pastel tinsel]

oh they have

like a lot

[rustic vine]

no bruh I ain't joining a whole nother server for this

[pastel tinsel]

😭

[rustic vine]

huh wait really

[spare quartz]

i could probably send ada code for hello world there on an alt account and win 💪

[rustic vine]

wait I have the perfect examples

[spare quartz]

too bad id immediately be the target cause im the only user in this entire server...

[rustic vine]

really

I can't share no google docs now

damn bro

[spare quartz]

😭

uhh

[rustic vine]

I broke but like not that broke

[spare quartz]

send the ID part

[rustic vine]

10ZIobOipN-5iDSNMnpuor68GcX2WMuwsQjLBUcW4TZ8

[rustic vine]

wait

[spare quartz]

this sucks ass

fired

[rustic vine]

yall cant be serious

LOL

ITS CODE I WROTE

in 2021

it got me a role somewhere

I forgot where

cause the name

idk bruh it was the most vile stuff

its ok though we win these

[spare quartz]

"please call a walmart associate" type deal

[rustic vine]

wait is that a custom message

for this server

I think I can send docs

[spare quartz]

yeah

[rustic vine]

normally

brah

seriously

they got this stuff censored to the brim

[spare quartz]

also no like

[rustic vine]

https://tenor.com/view/solunary-discord-discordian-discordia-neveah-gif-27558501

[spare quartz]

more than 4 emojis in a message, orrr

certain words being blocked cause they have something that itself would be bad

[rustic vine]

russian flag

[spare quartz]

🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺

[rustic vine]

flag ru flag ru flag ru flag ru

wait

im genius

flag_ru flag_ru flag_ru flag_ru flag_ru

they can't stop me

[spare quartz]

\🇷\🇺

😭

[rustic vine]

LOL

metatable arc

that went crazy

[spare quartz]

== nil

;

[rustic vine]

until I realized it was needlessly overcomplicated

[spare quartz]

🙁

[rustic vine]

LOL wait wth was I cooking

onto something or on something?

[spare quartz]

both

[rustic vine]

true

u think I can get that role if I send this

[spare quartz]

honestly

yaeh

[rustic vine]

is it all automated

[spare quartz]

no

[rustic vine]

or do I have to wait for a guy to

lock in

[spare quartz]

i wonder if i could send one of my raycasters and get accepted

[rustic vine]

wait if I have time this weekend I might try sending progressively fancier looking code until it gets accepted

gonna start with print("hi")

surely they won't know

[rustic vine]

erm actually

editable mesh

that vexes u

[spare quartz]

sir this was before that existed

❌

[rustic vine]

Amperes

[spare quartz]

mmm is this jvm ii

[rustic vine]

Amperes

I don't remember the last time I wrote amperes

[rustic vine]

im confused

what did that terminal do

[spare quartz]

thats my debugger

[rustic vine]

wha

no

the terminal

[spare quartz]

what terminal

[rustic vine]

u javac the file

[spare quartz]

yes i ran javac on the file

it compiled it into a .class

[rustic vine]

oh does it read the jar

or the class file or whatever

oh ok

[spare quartz]

yes

[rustic vine]

u forgot the lexer

and parser

and tokenizer

and ast builder

and compiler

btw

[spare quartz]

mmm no

that javac was actually my design written in ada

try again...

[rustic vine]

oh

u think this'll work too

[spare quartz]

nah

that one suicks

[rustic vine]

brah

I think you're a hater

[spare quartz]

even a NONcoder could see that it reeks

[rustic vine]

HUH

how

[spare quartz]

• not grammatically correct
• lacking punctuation

[rustic vine]

oh u got me

Do you think this would work too?

[spare quartz]

you just sent that

[rustic vine]

PLEASE

IM BEGGING

[spare quartz]

woahhh

i nearly uploaded that videeo

[rustic vine]

good save

[rustic vine]

wait

I have just the code

Do you think this would work?

wow thats disgusting

[spare quartz]

"GETTABLEKS" sounds like an alien word for destroying humanity

[rustic vine]

thats cause it is

just you wait

[spare quartz]

denied.

[rustic vine]

also set my vertical rule to 80 down from 120 recently

and all my code goes over

[spare quartz]

ADA CODED

[rustic vine]

truly disastrous

[spare quartz]

(our default limit is 79 characters)

💪

[rustic vine]

wth

NOOOO PLEASE DONT TAKE ME

PLEASE

[spare quartz]

oop??? in ada??

🤢

lu**

LUA*

[rustic vine]

in ada??

it couldn't be

[spare quartz]

lua *******************

(oop was added to ada in 1995)

[rustic vine]

user count has been on a downwards trend ever since

[spare quartz]

❌

what server is that btrw

[rustic vine]

take a guess

[spare quartz]

idk

[rustic vine]

ross

[spare quartz]

who tf ross

[rustic vine]

roblox oss

[spare quartz]

https://devforum.roblox.com/t/robloxos-a-modern-and-open-source-operating-system-within-roblox/3084208

?

[rustic vine]

no lol

do you want an invite link

[spare quartz]

no i koined

[rustic vine]

oh ok

[spare quartz]

i dontt hink qsp lets you send them here anywaays

[spare quartz]

okay lets see this os

oh no

[rustic vine]

ah

[rustic vine]

oh

😢

[rustic vine]

they talk about nerd stuff there

its also super serious (most of the time)

send a meme and get banned kinda vibe

[spare quartz]

i dont really talk in servers like that 99% of the time

[rustic vine]

I occasionally say stuff but mostly its questions

[spare quartz]

kinda since this chat is the only

• "active" chat
• my "blog" ...

[rustic vine]

theres like 4 luau engineers there so its valuable info

and a bunch more roblox employees

[spare quartz]

that DOES sound nerdy

[rustic vine]

it does

they also really like rust

I think

[spare quartz]

im out

[rustic vine]

or some of them

do

[spare quartz]

okay let me just run one (1) lint

[rustic vine]

"I swear im relevant" @spare quartz

[spare quartz]

BRO RAN MY LNIT FOR ME 💔

[rustic vine]

LOL

[spare quartz]

no way

im sorry what

you dont do this

you cant do that

this isnt true,,

[rustic vine]

so technically its true

they both use programming languages

so

its the same

really

[lavish dove]

me programming in lua (I am going to get hired by the military out of high school)

[spare quartz]

many nuclear missiles are more mechanically driven

or transistor-transistor

[rustic vine]

they're hiring

I bet u could be

[spare quartz]

program in ada 🥺

[rustic vine]

don't worry, I WONT be thinking about this while one is headed for my state

[lavish dove]

how to program in ada with makefile

[spare quartz]

um

dont

GPR exists

[lavish dove]

yeah I took one look at taht and decided it was bad

[spare quartz]

no.

[rustic vine]

good decisions

all around

[spare quartz]

well they're pretty accurate

so

enjoy the craftsmanship

[lavish dove]

they use gps

the missile knows where it is because it knows where it istn

[spare quartz]

missiles are more than gps silly

[lavish dove]

yes they also have women in them

[rustic vine]

wait so ur saying the military is using the same tech as GOOGLE MAPS??

[spare quartz]

btw the one that will hit you isn't the missile itself but that one also has its own guidance system

pretty cool

[lavish dove]

fortnite uses it too

look in the minimap

[rustic vine]

wait

[spare quartz]

if its from the russians though itll use GLONASS

[rustic vine]

thats crazy

why don't they just put a camera in the tip

and ask it to find

nyc

[lavish dove]

kek

[spare quartz]

we have those

but

[lavish dove]

thank god nyc fuck you

[spare quartz]

those are for hitting civilian airliners

[rustic vine]

run deepseek on it

[spare quartz]

not cities

[rustic vine]

oh ok

of course

[lavish dove]

we need to put chinese ai on our missiles

[rustic vine]

deepthink

[spare quartz]

no thanks

[rustic vine]

its gonna think a long time about

which target to choose

[spare quartz]

harry is horrible at driving missiles iirc..

[lavish dove]

which civilian airliner to kill

[rustic vine]

HUH what is this a reference to

[spare quartz]

iirc...

https://tenor.com/view/discord-embed-embed-rescue-helicopter-rescue-gif-24380040

[lavish dove]

to build gpr you use makefile

hahahhahhahahahah

[rustic vine]

good catch

[spare quartz]

no

you use gprbuild

stupid

[lavish dove]

https://github.com/AdaCore/gprbuild

it doesnt build itself

[spare quartz]

🤨

[lavish dove]

woah

[spare quartz]

bootstrapping is a fun concept

[lavish dove]

https://github.com/AdaCore/gprbuild#Building-and-Installing byutt gyat

[spare quartz]

thats if you cant bootstrap it

but the existence of a gpr file implies you can build it with gprbuild if you had gprbuild

[lavish dove]

woah

[spare quartz]

anyways

general consensus

nobody in that server understands ada

not even one mention of the actual formal verification language SPARK

[lavish dove]

omg ada lovelace

[rustic vine]

hmm, it seems you have gpr in both the name and extension, deepseek r1 suggests renaming this to build.gpr or gprbuild or .buildgpr or .gpr

[spare quartz]

build.gpr implies the project name is Build

i think it needs to read ...

[rustic vine]

ohhhh why didn't I think of that

[rustic vine]

this is your chance

[spare quartz]

naw i left

you said a lot of people in there like rust...

its my kryptonite 💔

[rustic vine]

LOL

why do you think all of the tooling is built in rust

[spare quartz]

idk cause they're autistic js devs who moved to rust

[rustic vine]

this, that, him, her, them, newer-them, bob

wait, it's all rust?

[spare quartz]

alright let me do a simple lint

[rustic vine]

fwiw

LOL even here

[spare quartz]

wanna know something funny

i did a surface level search on the orgs/contributors of these repos...

all of them at least touch js, ts, or a js-derivative (e.g. astro)

many such cases

[rustic vine]

welllllllllll

what did u expect

[spare quartz]

i already knew

[rustic vine]

LOL

and zig made an appearance!

[rustic vine]

wheres the ada tooling

[spare quartz]

💔

its all in adacore

and gcc

and the us military..

[rustic vine]

no

wheres the tooling for roblox

written in ada

lock in

[spare quartz]

nobody who uses ada is also a roblox dev

clearly

[rustic vine]

how about u

[spare quartz]

kotlin

[rustic vine]

don't you use ada

[spare quartz]

i use kotlin and ada

[rustic vine]

and roblox

[spare quartz]

there isn't a reason for me to use ada on roblox cause

there isn't a reason

kotlin is better

[rustic vine]

true

well actually

tbh if you ignore roblox being mid

and the mid parts of the typechecker

and the mid parts of lua (they can't change that)

luau is actually a really nice language

[spare quartz]

never argued against it

i find it great

its alllways just roblox...

[rustic vine]

the hypixel devs are using it for their game I think

and that one game uses it too

alan wake 2

[spare quartz]

neat

[rustic vine]

ye

[rustic vine]

hytale

thats what it was called

idk anything about it

[spare quartz]

all i've heard about that game is bad so

i wouldn't expect much from it

[rustic vine]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1278332589526220873/1331996679431524375/72a7910dd8487479889212d4cf482d7c_lp_luau.png?ex=67a6c3d3&is=67a57253&hm=1cdb43c086739ff9ffec9384444b5f4495415012c85155e3b827131620dd93e0&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=586&height=356

hytale code apparently

camelca se

disappointing

[spare quartz]

Events.On_Init:Register (function ()
Events.On_Trigger_Enter:Register (On_Trigger_Enter)
end)

💪

[rustic vine]

thats worse

imma be real

[spare quartz]

naw

take the koolaid

[rustic vine]

no

maybe one day I'll write an ada program

until that day

[spare quartz]

i should mention

everything in ada is case-insensitive iirc so

PROCEDURE MAIN IS
BEGIN
   ADA.TEXT_IO.PUT_LINE ("OK");
END MAIN;

if you wanna yell you can

(the compiler will complain about style though)

[rustic vine]

snake case ada it is

idk what I'd make in it

whats ada good at

[spare quartz]

its mainly popular in embedded stuff

[rustic vine]

I just use c and cpp for that

[spare quartz]

also usable for desktop applications but you have to do many things yourself or get a library to do something for that

[rustic vine]

disaster

idk if I have a real usecase for it then

my embedded needs usually require c or cpp

as in the techstack is already on c or cpp

[spare quartz]

well wherever c is ada can go just fine

but if you find c/c++ fine as is don't switch

[rustic vine]

yea but its usually not just me working on stuff

so its not a "oh I can just rewrite"

[spare quartz]

it is always morally okay to rewrite other peoples code

[rustic vine]

TRUE

especially if they've left the company

also btw guys um

wait idt anyone else is listening

but if people are lurking

if yall used gitlens in vsc before

and you ONLY used the git blame functionality

you can get native git blame support in vsc now

and git rid of that bloat plugin that asks you to pay money every startup

[spare quartz]

neat

im gona go make food now im hungry and its tomorrow now

[rustic vine]

    "git.blame.editorDecoration.enabled": true,
    "git.blame.editorDecoration.template": "${authorName}, ${authorDateAgo} • ${subject}",
    "git.blame.statusBarItem.enabled": true,
    "workbench.colorCustomizations": {
        "git.blame.editorDecorationForeground": "#ffffff3b"
    },```

thank me later

[timid quartz]

intellij for 7.5h 💪

[rustic vine]

still in Main.kt 😭

[timid quartz]

yep

[rustic vine]

thats a vibe

[spare quartz]

i just warmed up more ramen...

[timid quartz]

yumm

[spare quartz]

its heatingu pnow

i love boiling water in my microwave

in plastic thats close to melting

[rustic vine]

add tin foil and silverware for

extra magnetron focusing

[spare quartz]

trried that

it just gave the interior of my microwave a matte black finish

free seasoning though

[rustic vine]

🥲

time for sleep btw yall are past your bedtimes

[timid quartz]

shush

you are too

[rustic vine]

I am conducting those activites at this very moment

[spare quartz]

oh yeah

im finally getting it to ship now :3

[pastel tinsel]

yipp

[timid quartz]

ee

[spare quartz]

and YOU will be translating it

:3c

[timid quartz]

what

you have ocr and jisho

[spare quartz]

marow

good idea i should write my own CV program

[proud creek]

interesting...

very cool seeing it being used outside of roblox

[lavish dove]

bruh

I somehow broke posix-uefi for my whole fucking computer

I just want libm 😭

[spare quartz]

rfix it

[lavish dove]

idk how

it just says error 1

lmao

uefi is so shit man 😭

[spare quartz]

right

i need to get back to taking notes

[lavish dove]

I cant figure out how to even install edk2, gnu-efi is worth shit and posix-efi forces llvm on me which means I cant use fucking anything else

[spare quartz]

what about writing your own

[lavish dove]

fuck no

[spare quartz]

:<

[lavish dove]

bro if I try to do that

all I will have to go off of is the spec

[spare quartz]

its readable..

[lavish dove]

no its not

[lavish dove]

wait so hold on

how

[spare quartz]

wdym how

[lavish dove]

bro im too tired to think

im just mad that I cant get libm working

[spare quartz]

im so bored

i should probably mod minecraft

nnnnno i should make a compiler

nooooooo... i should make ftp

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[lavish dove]

wait so

is efi just normal elf file

not elf

pe

[spare quartz]

yeah

just with a different subsystem

also you need to export your main func to efi_main

[lavish dove]

aaarrarrgrh

[spare quartz]

lemme get my makefile

[lavish dove]

what if I just wrote the efi bootloader in assembly

so I dont haved to deal with that

[spare quartz]

$(EFI_PATH): build #$(SHARED_PATH)
    x86_64-w64-mingw32-gcc -nostdlib -Wl,-dll -shared -Wl,--subsystem,$(OBJCOPY_SUBSYSTEM) -e efi_main -o $@ $(shell find $(BUILD_PATH) -name '*.o')

[lavish dove]

mingw is crazy

damn that easier than I thought it was

does that come with libm uwu!?!?!

[spare quartz]

i dunno maybe

i dunno if efi gives you a C lib or not

[lavish dove]

well edk2 does

it gives like fuckin everything

but the tradeoff is that nobody fucking uses it because its too big

or whatever

[spare quartz]

i think im just gonna write more compilers

[lavish dove]

yeah edk2 even has its own build system

too complicated

[lavish dove]

average behavior

[spare quartz]

im bored okay..

[lavish dove]

I think I only wrote bytecode compiler

its 12 am for me i should be asleep

wait I havent done my homework yet either

[spare quartz]

well my language virtually already IS bytecode so

hopefully dont have to do that much work

[lavish dove]

gaming

convert to assembly and get gcc to do the assembling for you fr fr

[spare quartz]

cant trust gcc 💔

[lavish dove]

😭

[spare quartz]

note start * sorry for ping

[lavish dove]

I saw that gcc uses avx instead of x86

[spare quartz]

.bcml - loaf
.bcms - symbol table
.bcmc - crumb

[lavish dove]

woah

now I wanna make a executable format and add it to binutils

[spare quartz]

man that is a terrifying idea

each breadcrumb can define a fixed size heap(?)

i dunno if making segmentation in my programming language is the best idea but whatever

[lavish dove]

true

agghh

I dont wanna write floating point functions 😭

[spare quartz]

just write inline functions with inline asm in them

[lavish dove]

yeah tahts what im gonan do

im reading on floating point operations rn

apparently avx is so fucking powerful the cpu slows down by a third when its being used

[spare quartz]

dont be like me tho and try and debug the same function and realize you're dividing by zero and a #DE isn't being shown cause interrupts are off

[lavish dove]

lmao

bruhhhhhh my fuckinggggggg earwax is red

[spare quartz]

oh wow

[lavish dove]

damn

guess my renderer is only gonna be one thread

where tf did you even find that graph

[spare quartz]

lemme find it--

oh wikichip is down

[lavish dove]

lol

wtf is wikichip

[spare quartz]

oh okay

[lavish dove]

apparently its been down for a few days

oh damn

[spare quartz]

used to be a great site for CPU information including up to pinouts but

i gues they died

[lavish dove]

waah

archive.org has it archived

aw man most of it doesnt work though

[spare quartz]

https://web.archive.org/web/20240911140851/https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/xeon_gold/5220

its not the same table but

[lavish dove]

oh thats only for intel

coo

[spare quartz]

mmmmmmmm

how would i define a symbol and link to it without it being a sequential list

because if

[a,b,c]
  ^
[a,d,b,c]
`b,c` refs become invalidated

[lavish dove]

id get scared and die

[spare quartz]

hm

okay so you can fit

about 6 characters in a single 32 bit integer

i dont think thats a great choice though

mm

ill probably just do a direct mapping instead of sequential list

[lavish dove]

use avx512 and store

uh

64 characters

fr

[spare quartz]

this is file constraints, not memory/cpu

[lavish dove]

waah

[spare quartz]

man this is gonna be a heavy tooling-based lang

since you cannot refer to variables by their names, only indices

[lavish dove]

dyamn

[timid quartz]

Yknow you can turn the reply ping off

[tidal wave]

Is anyone here had an experience with SFML or SDL?

[lavish dove]

https://dontasktoask.com

[tidal wave]

My bad

[timid quartz]

@spare quartz https://goaccess.io/

Bro who writes this kind of thing in C

[spare quartz]

Mrow

[spare quartz]

Oh my vision is so blurry I can’t read thy

That

[spare quartz]

doesnt seem that crazy

https://fixupx.com/awesomekling/status/1887853631174521246/photo/1

https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/CAHk-=wi=ZmP2=[e-mail]/

[lavish dove]

Omfg ask the question before I visit you

[rustic vine]

😭

[spare quartz]

leave us hanging, we'll get back to you in 5-10 business days dw

[timid quartz]

@spare quartz where's that twitter post of the language performance comparison

[rustic vine]

wait. maybe the question was if there was anyone experienced

no strings attached, that was it

[spare quartz]

psh i dunno.. i could find it for you now

i think i have a lead to it

[rustic vine]

considering your chronic addiction

I am not at all surprised

[spare quartz]

addiced to what

[rustic vine]

too far gone

[spare quartz]

@timid quartz https://fixupx.com/BenjDicken/status/1863977678690541570

did minor keyword eng here it is

[rustic vine]

what da hell is Nim

Crystal

these are all some

irrelevant languages

[spare quartz]

all languages made in the last 5-10 years

[rustic vine]

ZIG IS FIRST??

[spare quartz]

aka not important

[rustic vine]

didn't even include cpp

disastrous

[spare quartz]

funnily enough

i ran an ada program using equivelent code

ran faster than everything on that list (with some side effects included in so an optimization run wouldn't delete it all)

not a very good test methinks

[rustic vine]

not a very good test ithinks

[spare quartz]

wonder what ver of kotlin they tested

[rustic vine]

slower than java

thats all I needed to know

nvm I can't even hate kt is just better

[spare quartz]

i feel like thats obvious if you write one line of kotlin

[rustic vine]

it is

[spare quartz]

anyways that feels more like a rating of the JVM they ran it on (assuming its kotlin/jvm) instead of the lang

[spare quartz]

show this to a typescript programmer to make them laugh at you

their type system is wacky

[rustic vine]

yeah show any luau types to a ts programmer and they'll be like

erm actually

I can do this in 1 expr

with

these 20 ts type gymnastics

[timid quartz]

terry has like

a weird obsession

for hating on kotlin (and java)

[spare quartz]

why

[timid quartz]

Cause he uses rust and JVM is slower

[spare quartz]

sounds nerdy

be versatile

hunger

[timid quartz]

I would counter with “what does Kotlin do that rust doesn’t”

I think some of the Kotlin frameworks are nice but that’s abt it

[spare quartz]

runs on every machine possible without recompilation

and is also easier to write

thats why the jvm exists in the first place

anyways what is rofl typing

[timid quartz]

Drink once barf anywhere

[spare quartz]

write rust code once, wait for it to recompile in 5 decades

[tidal wave]

, i just wanted to know overall experience with those two, and which one is better to go with (in terms of developing a simple 2d game)

[timid quartz]

Me when compile-time penalties for run-time benefits

Besides we have incremental compilation

[spare quartz]

why not be like ada and have your cake while being able to eat it too

think about the 1 second compile times

[spare quartz]

i personally can't help with that cause i use neither BUT

take a look at both's examples and documentation

and take what you think looks better

[tidal wave]

[timid quartz]

ok but ada isn't doing proc macro expansion, inserting automatic malloc/free, and other things

[spare quartz]

i love this twitter community cause its just the drama central of programming

[spare quartz]

aera i've proven time and time again we literally do the second point

as for the first that's cause you just have something we don't

[timid quartz]

you literally don't cause all your stuff is done on the stack 😭

[spare quartz]

have you ever ran an ada program in valgrind

[timid quartz]

no

[spare quartz]

then what're you on about

[timid quartz]

you said it yourself

things that arent access types are on the stack

[spare quartz]

i ran my http server multiple times and the alloc/free was symmetrical 😭

[spare quartz]

yeah and are thus easily freeable when they're done

[timid quartz]

but that's not really a free()

[spare quartz]

as for access types they're either internally freed, freed by a controlled type (basically first), or deferred to the programmer

[timid quartz]

rust does automatic heap allocation as well

[spare quartz]

and reminder

what ada does with access types or where things even are in the first place is totally implementation dependent

we don't really know what GNAT is doing, but it's freeing up all of the memory with little input from me

so it works

[timid quartz]

also even though ada also compiles all deps from source

using deps in rust is way more common from what I've seen of you writing ada

and they're ALL source compiled

[spare quartz]

difference in ecosystem i guess

[timid quartz]

I'm reading too that rust can suffer from generic bloat

[spare quartz]

wdym

also i wont ignore the fact that certain huge libraries in ada like GNATCOLL take forever to compile but thats because they're actually massive

[timid quartz]

like similar to templates in C++

[spare quartz]

like a second stdlib

[spare quartz]

really? that can happen in rust?

[timid quartz]

The style we promote in Rust is very hard on the compiler. In C, if you want to write a for loop you write something like

for (int i = 0; i < limit; ++i ) {}

This is great for the compiler, it knows every element of this code, and this is only built-in language features. There are no library calls. Even in debug mode, you will find that gcc and clang generate reasonably efficient assembly for this. If you want to write a for loop like this in Rust...

for i in 0..limit {}

This superficially looks the same but it is not at all the same. Stick it into godbolt.org or such and just look at the mountains of assembly that come out of the compiler in debug mode. This compiles into a standard library Range type which is converted into an iterator, and then driven by calling an iterator method on it. So this expands to a whole bunch of library code. The compiler doesn't understand any of this, it's just some functions calling some other functions and it is doing its best for you

[timid quartz]

Ever heard a C++ developer/hater complain about "template bloat"? Rust has exactly the same problem. Generic functions are monomorphized pretty early on. So if you call some_option.is_some() in two places where your Option is wrapping different types, you're actually calling two separate functions and they will be compiled and optimized separately. This gets pretty absurd, simple things like ptr::is_null are generic and generate a lot of totally redundant work for LLVM.

[spare quartz]

...huh

thats interesting

in ada a generic function only exists once, but

our generic typings are reeeally weird

https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/xna9mb/comment/ipslq51/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

scp sl time

[spare quartz]

nice desc from the wikibook

[wraith scarab]

ah yes node has a memory leak and crashes my pc

nothing fucking running too

[spare quartz]

lemme see what fridays gonna look like

oh it IS friday

i got one day off

[timid quartz]

月
火
水
木
金
土
日

[spare quartz]

yeah i know them all already

[timid quartz]

ない

[spare quartz]

just got mixed with friday/thursday

:<

[timid quartz]

チガウ

[spare quartz]

何故

:<<<<<<<

[timid quartz]

I have never seen なぜ written in kanji

smh