💽Programming Chat v2

[rustic vine]

tsan/asan and clangd catch pretty much everything imaginable

[timid quartz]

https://cdn.bigbenster702.com/u/sM8tn6u.png

But the reason why borrows and lifetimes exist is because of the borrow checker managing memory

[rustic vine]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1278332589526220873/1311405853433139220/GdQMuqUW4AAhUdU.jpg?ex=674b6060&is=674a0ee0&hm=1584efd4a19081d84aaff460a80f9008c8a255ed34309f0a0d93110e17408fae&

[timid quartz]

LMAO

[timid quartz]

They’re the semantics that tell the borrow checker when it’s ok to free something

[rustic vine]

just use smart pointers in cpp and you'll be fine tbh

[spare quartz]

no way thats actually real 😭

[rustic vine]

its extremely hard to unsafe memory stuff in cpp if you stick to good practices

LOL

evil

[timid quartz]

That’s a giant if though

And it’s easy to not

[rustic vine]

ok well

u suck

[timid quartz]

Vs rust where the compiler hounds you until you do

[rustic vine]

if you don't stick to good practices

[timid quartz]

And I’m sure “sticking to good practices” works 100% of the time

[rustic vine]

it just takes so long to reach a MVP

it does

or, maybe 99% of the time

the 1% is caught by tsan/asan and clangd

[timid quartz]

Hm

Then how come so many memory vulnerabilities from software made by top companies that definitely follow best practices still exist

[rustic vine]

having a compiler backend for your static analysis is incredible

[timid quartz]

Hmm I wonder how that works

[rustic vine]

cause they DONT follow best practices

corporate code is the worst bruh

people be writing

all sorts of nonsense

[timid quartz]

Not claiming that rust is bulletproof either but it helps to have the compiler enforce things rather than just hand-wave sand say “oh you’re not following best practices blah blah blah”

[rustic vine]

no I get that

I've stated like 4 times why I don't like it

[timid quartz]

Like yeah bad C and C++ code is definitely a skill issue but even the most skilled are gonna fuck up because they ain’t perfect

[rustic vine]

geninunely corporate code is some of the worst I've ever seen

[rustic vine]

clangd

tsan asan and

whatever else san

[timid quartz]

ok throw another thread at your program have fun

[rustic vine]

tsan is a thread sanitizer

its good at its job

[timid quartz]

Mostly because people be arguing about how to do shit with rust

[rustic vine]

and it seems like writing simple code requires so much effort

[timid quartz]

At first yeah

[rustic vine]

because you have to prove to the compiler its safe

[timid quartz]

Once you get used to the rust mindset it’s no harder than Java

[rustic vine]

idk how you can say that

[timid quartz]

Some things are inherently more difficult eg trees

[rustic vine]

java has a gc

you don't even think about memory management in java

cause its done for you

in rust you do it all yourself

[timid quartz]

False

[rustic vine]

wym false rbah

brah

[timid quartz]

The borrow checker exists to manage memory for you

[spare quartz]

(not to mention java has a much, much larger stdlib, but that's covered by libraries in rust)

[timid quartz]

Silence Ada user

You have no stdlib and no other libraries

[rustic vine]

yeah but you gotta prove to it you're doing the right thing

[spare quartz]

we have a giant stdlib with GNAT okay...

we just don't have automatic freeing, only controlled memory

[timid quartz]

And you learn how to do that by learning the mindset

[rustic vine]

rust is objectively bad (atm) for linear algebra

[timid quartz]

Ok if you’re doing linalg go use Kaylan

[rustic vine]

it is infinitely worse to do linear algebra in rust than it is in cpp

[timid quartz]

wtf keyboard

[rustic vine]

wth is kaylan

[timid quartz]

Matlab

[wraith scarab]

hi

aera is wrong

[rustic vine]

MATLAB

[wraith scarab]

bye

[rustic vine]

FR

matlab worst invention known to man

[timid quartz]

If you’re doing linalg use matlab

[wraith scarab]

fuck matlab

[timid quartz]

If you’re doing data sci use numpy

[rustic vine]

NUMPY

insane

[spare quartz]

hell yea

[rustic vine]

goat

[wraith scarab]

no way you recommend python

[timid quartz]

I’m not gonna say that rust is the solution to everything

[rustic vine]

I would never use python in a production environment

numpy is great and all

but leave it to the scripts

[spare quartz]

hold on whats linear algebra about again

[rustic vine]

matrix

vectors

[spare quartz]

OH

[rustic vine]

everything you ever care about

it is absolutely awful to do linalg in rust

[spare quartz]

oh wow

[rustic vine]

cause

[spare quartz]

https://learn.adacore.com/courses/intro-to-ada/chapters/standard_library_numerics.html

[rustic vine]

theres just no good libraries for it

[spare quartz]

field ada actually excels at

[timid quartz]

There are things that are objectively harder compared to other languages but Rust is nice because you get managed memory with no GC out of it, along with other niceties like Option and Result

[rustic vine]

the pattern matching is kinda cool

the last I remember of it at least

that Result Err stuff

[timid quartz]

If everything was easy to do in one language then everyone would use that language (cough Python except it’s slow)

[rustic vine]

idk I forgot brah

python is only good because

of its ecosystem

if lua had pythons ecosystem it'd be gods chosen language

[timid quartz]

Python is good because you can do anything with it

[rustic vine]

yeah at

[timid quartz]

Due to the ecosystem but still

[rustic vine]

0.0001x the speed

ignore the profile picture thats from years ago when the only language I knew was py

[timid quartz]

But most normies don’t care about that

[rustic vine]

don't get me wrong though python is still a great scripting language

[spare quartz]

yeah cpython kinda traded all of its guts for developer speed over computer speed

i've heard it's getting faster though

[rustic vine]

cython

goated code

[timid quartz]

They’re letting you disable the GIL in the newest version

[rustic vine]

write fast python by writing as little python as possible

[spare quartz]

JNI mindset

[rustic vine]

instead offload all work to

c libraries

(numpy)

[timid quartz]

But for what I do Rust is great

I enjoy it

[rustic vine]

what do u do

I wish google was actually good at being devs

[timid quartz]

I’ve done a little GBA with it, mostly generic shit like discord bots and rest APIs because that’s all I do anyways

[rustic vine]

soulcrushing webdev

at least thats how I view webdev

[rustic vine]

literally everything they release is a docker image now

its terrible

[timid quartz]

I will say I’ve done some embedded robotics too but like damn I gotta admit C is just way better

Way simpler

[rustic vine]

idk C that well

[spare quartz]

gotta suppress my urges

[timid quartz]

I enjoy the safety shit with rust but you gotta put more effort into it

[rustic vine]

141

[timid quartz]

Go write Ada that runs on an ESP32 and then we can talk

HAHA

[rustic vine]

ban

[spare quartz]

WE HAVE ESP32 COMPILERS ON ALIREEEEEEEEEEE

[rustic vine]

ban them

please

[spare quartz]

😭

[timid quartz]

Ok now gpio pin

[rustic vine]

irrelevant languages shall not be tolerated here

[spare quartz]

WE HAVE THOSE TOO

[timid quartz]

show me.

[spare quartz]

its not even funny bro

we literally have a ton of embedded drivers but something as simple as cross compiling to windows is just ❌

hold on

[timid quartz]

based honestly

[spare quartz]

https://github.com/AdaCore/Ada_Drivers_Library

[timid quartz]

Actually @spare quartz show me teensy 3.5

[spare quartz]

its so infuriating

[timid quartz]

The other thing too is

[spare quartz]

uhhh

[timid quartz]

Die

I know

[spare quartz]

https://github.com/AdaCore/bb-runtimes

bb-runtimes for everything else

[timid quartz]

“Teensy 3.5 ada lang” will get 2 results
“Teensy 3.5 cpp” will get 2000000000000000000 results

[spare quartz]

I KNOW

the only people keeping ada alive is the company named after it and the GCC devs

[timid quartz]

I see no teensy in here

Or esp32 for that matter

[spare quartz]

you can just make an RTS for either with bb or adl

[timid quartz]

Or I could just like

C

[spare quartz]

ewwwwwwwwwwwwww

[timid quartz]

Arduino.h

Boom

[spare quartz]

ewwwwewewewewewew

[timid quartz]

Done ez

0 work

[spare quartz]

or just like

https://github.com/AdaCore/bb-runtimes/blob/31dcea3b5ba7e65c7fdfca5107f3f32186ecd13f/arm/cortexm.py#L1667

bb-runtimes cortexm......

[timid quartz]

I have attempted to program a teensy 4.1 in rust and…

The library has a lot of boilerplate

But it worked faiiirly easily

[spare quartz]

is that a bad thing?

[timid quartz]

It’s just more verbose

It took me a while to get a motor to spin but I wasn’t writing to the enable pin so that’s 100% a skill issue

[spare quartz]

please ecosystem gods.... bless us....

[rustic vine]

now do it in verilog

[spare quartz]

https://fixupx.com/Windows/status/1854594650008699164

[timid quartz]

apt install gcc-avr

[spare quartz]

alr toolchain --select

4

[timid quartz]

But then I have to build the rts

[spare quartz]

no you dont

alire does that for you

[timid quartz]

or just

apt install gcc-avr

:3

[spare quartz]

also alire again

[timid quartz]

Or use platformio

platformio is goated

[spare quartz]

whats platformio

[timid quartz]

idot

[spare quartz]

STUPID alire give us windosw and mac cross compilers!!!!!!!!!

[timid quartz]

https://platformio.org/

[spare quartz]

oh cool

ill save this for whenever i have money....

[timid quartz]

It’s free

[spare quartz]

yeah but boards aren't

[timid quartz]

They can be

[spare quartz]

okay how

[timid quartz]

Idk find one

[spare quartz]

im not gonna rob someone for their like

esp32 😭

[timid quartz]

A teensy is also like $25

[spare quartz]

thats a lot of money ...

[timid quartz]

That’s as much as a candy bar

[spare quartz]

$25???????? A CANDY BAR??

[timid quartz]

That’s like 2 weeks allowance right there

[spare quartz]

are you mad

i don't have allowance 😭😭

[timid quartz]

yeah cause you don’t do dishes or vacuum smh

[spare quartz]

i do......

[timid quartz]

ask for $25 then

[spare quartz]

fine ill ask for drain cleaner

[timid quartz]

Get a breadboard and a 5v supply while you’re at it

[spare quartz]

oh i actually have b

nevermind i don't

they were both destroyed

[timid quartz]

Custom voltage regulator

[spare quartz]

man i just realized

i've destroyed 3 rasp pi 3b+s

[timid quartz]

Criminal

[spare quartz]

no

just very umm

unsecure

[timid quartz]

My robotics team has fried so many chips so

I can’t judge

[spare quartz]

all of my chips were destroyed just cause they were crushed in some way or another

[timid quartz]

Anyways go back to leaking memory with your ESC or whatever

[spare quartz]

i've only fried one when i miswired an internal DP -> VGA pcb

[spare quartz]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/972096530330845254/1134081302233108580/caption.gif

go back to being this image

[timid quartz]

So true actually

How would you even practically implement an ECS anyways

For something like idk Tartarus

Or the warhead

[spare quartz]

i dunno

do i look like a game dev

[rustic vine]

I can explain how I do mine in a bit if you're still on

[timid quartz]

Yes

[timid quartz]

I’m going to sleep but I can read in the morning

[rustic vine]

maybe I'll just explain tomorrow then lol, I gotta sleep too

finals coming up (its over)

[rustic vine]

I'd prefer being a known as a game dev over being known as a minecraft mod dev

[spare quartz]

hey

we do more than just like

mcreator slop

[rustic vine]

right...

[spare quartz]

trust...

[timid quartz]

rust…

[spare quartz]

@timid quartz

better img

top time is Item.Time_Stamp

heres it run on guardsman.exe

huh

only spent 25 minutes on it

i skimmed over these until i have more information but i think thats good time

just needed a 5 hour warmup time..

[spare quartz]

kinda cool how these files have their original date

miko@ATProcessorMk2:~/exe$ bin/validation/exe-native -f=/mnt/c/Windows/System32/ntoskrnl.exe
1985-01-22 14:19:53

miko@ATProcessorMk2:~/exe$ bin/validation/exe-native -f=/mnt/c/Windows/System32/cmd.exe
1990-12-15 00:18:23

miko@ATProcessorMk2:~/exe$ bin/validation/exe-native -f=/mnt/c/Windows/System32/ntdll.dll
1988-05-11 11:11:15

some of them appear broken though

miko@ATProcessorMk2:~/exe$ bin/validation/exe-native -f=/mnt/c/Windows/System32/charmap.exe
2040-08-16 21:25:33

pretty cool how all of these files have their own offsets to the new PE data

[timid quartz]

@spare quartz smh you’re trying to compete with me

[lavish dove]

do I detect microsoft docs

[timid quartz]

Yes you do

[spare quartz]

Mwhahahahhaha

I think I did pretty good ao far rn…

[timid quartz]

I just finished off the optional header

but honestly you'll probably complete it first

[spare quartz]

blehh

[timid quartz]

idk how much of this you are wanting to read

cause there's

a lot

[spare quartz]

how much is a lot

[timid quartz]

this is after the section headers

which is after the optional header

which is after the pe header

which is after the dos header

[spare quartz]

:<<<

[rustic vine]

their screams fuel me

[rustic vine]

still waiting for someone to make a please datastore library

please:save() and please:get() would be golden

[spare quartz]

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/processthreadsapi/nf-processthreadsapi-createthread
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/memoryapi/nf-memoryapi-virtualalloc

[spare quartz]

theoretically with these two win32 api functions we can load the EXE into memory

and set the starting address to be the 'Address of a byte array or something

[rustic vine]

so what exactly are you making again?

[spare quartz]

exe reader(/loader) to compete with aeras

[rustic vine]

just cause?

[spare quartz]

yeah

[rustic vine]

fun

[timid quartz]

There’s only one optional header silly

[spare quartz]

yeah im only reading one

[timid quartz]

To spite me

[spare quartz]

an Indefinite_Holder is so i can hold a "null" without needing an access type

.Is_Empty for the win

[timid quartz]

Though what atp fails to realize is that I don’t really care about Ada or this exe reader

So really I am the winner here :3

[spare quartz]

❌

[timid quartz]

✅

[spare quartz]

go back to writing guardsman in ts

[timid quartz]

I will :3

You go back to having to reinvent the wheel because there’s no libraries to do what you want

[spare quartz]

i will

and ill enjoy it

[timid quartz]

And then having no support when you run into issues because the other Ada coders are either dead or forcefully silenced by the military

[spare quartz]

mf the military funds ada compilers 😭😭

we're not making cancer vaccines

[timid quartz]

Yeah but all the code is a military secret and they’re not allowed to share their knowledge to help

• they’re probably still on Ada 95

[spare quartz]

mmm nope

[rustic vine]

idk what that is but I can explain how I've done buttons, switches, and linking their behavior together

just to define a few things, a world is a container for entities and their components
entities are nothing special on the user side (they are typically represented as just an entity id), they are like an oop object but without any of the data, alternatively kinda like a pointer to the data
components are essentially key-value pairs, they have a name and a specific value, like a single field in an oop object

at the very start of the game, I create an entity that represents each button and add components that describe behavior to the entity, such as how long a button stays pressed for, how to animate a press, etc..

then I write a system that adds a "Clicked" tag (tags are components without a value) to an entity whenever their ClickDetector is clicked, this clicked tag is added early in the gameloop (the systems that run), then all clicked tags are cleared from the world at the end of the gameloop - the significance of this is so that I can detect the specific frame in which something is clicked

in a system that processes buttons, I can query for entities that have both the Button component and the Clicked tag, which gives me all buttons that have been clicked in this current frame, now I can do whatever I need to animate this button

the neat thing about this kind of setup is that, the button system has no dependency on anything else, it only reads the Button and Clicked components, which means to click a button without user input (say I wanted to link 2 button presses together), I can just add the clicked tag wherever and trust that it just gets properly handled by the button system

my fault

[spare quartz]

the military intentionally put ada in gcc as the first compiler from nyu

[rustic vine]

if I distrupted this convo lol

[timid quartz]

No it’s just ATP and me arguing that the other person is more stupid

[rustic vine]

nvm its about ada

I don't feel as bad anymore

[spare quartz]

Kill

[rustic vine]

😃

[timid quartz]

Yeah don’t

[timid quartz]

Interesting

@spare quartz what language do I do AoC in

[spare quartz]

i dunno what language do you like

[timid quartz]

I mean rust duh

[spare quartz]

aside from ri ust :

[timid quartz]

I was thinking of maybe trying OCaml or Elixir

Do a little FP

[spare quartz]

ewww

how about you use... R

:3

[timid quartz]

Gross

I will also probably do a little Advent of Ada too

[spare quartz]

consoom

[rustic vine]

I simplified the client/server stuff here because some stuff is separated there, but the code in general looks like this

-- this is a system that processes clicks
-- clicks is a queue of entities that were clicked in the current frame
for id, player in clicks do
    world:add(id, pr.Clicked)
end

-- button system
-- this queries for all entities that have both the Button and Clicked component, but without the ButtonDebounced component
for id, button, _ in world:view(
    pr.Button,
    pr.Clicked
)
:exclude(pr.ButtonDebounced) -- exclude debounced buttons
:iter() do
    world:add(id, pr.ButtonPressed) -- press buttons that were clicked
    world:add(id, pr.ButtonDebounced) -- debounce buttons that get pressed
    world:set(id, pr.ButtonPressedTime, os.clock()) -- save time that the button was pressed, so I can unpress it later
end

[timid quartz]

Stupid car

[spare quartz]

i did try to write an ecs type system for LWJGL

[rustic vine]

what in the world is lwjgl

[spare quartz]

lightweight java game library

[rustic vine]

java 😭

[timid quartz]

ATP is a Java fiend

[spare quartz]

basically a really good thick binding for OpenGL/Vulkan for any JVM lang

it's a little contrived (you have to use a little reflection) but i thought the ecs was pretty okay

[rustic vine]

writing a game in java must be like willingly cursing yourself

[rustic vine]

was it a sparse-set or archetype implementation

or neither

[spare quartz]

sparse set most likely

this was a while ago so i dont have the code on hand anymore

[rustic vine]

gotcha

sparse sets are coool

O(1) clear is awesome

[spare quartz]

and surprisingly it's not that bad

there's things you have to worry about occassionally since it's super JNI heavy, but it's good everywhere else

[rustic vine]

well I'd expect to have to think about performance a lot more

LOL jni

[timid quartz]

Game pauses every 3 seconds for a GC

[rustic vine]

the java jni api in cpp is actually awful

theres a way to pass objects but I never do it because its so digusting to write

[spare quartz]

it runs pretty fine if you're not allocating like 1 terabyte every frame (minecraft.......)

[rustic vine]

instead I just make every field in an object an primitive arg

which makes it

at least liveable

[rustic vine]

yeah except doing simple vector math is like 40 allocations

because theres no operator overloads

unless you use a mutable vector api, but then that sucks for maintainability

[spare quartz]

ehhh

JOMLs pretty light on memory alloc

[rustic vine]

vec.add(vec2).minus(vec3)

this is like

[spare quartz]

at least from what i've seen on my graphs

[rustic vine]

5 allocs

[timid quartz]

@spare quartz hurry up and finish your exe reader/loader

[spare quartz]

why....

[spare quartz]

wait wtf

JOML is compatible with java 1.4??????

tf 😭

[rustic vine]

yeah but each math operation is a new object

[timid quartz]

because dewit

[rustic vine]

thats really sucky

because objects aren't cheap

[spare quartz]

true

[rustic vine]

in a langauge where you have to use them

[spare quartz]

okay but why do you want me to hurry up......

[timid quartz]

honestly I barely even care to write tons of code nowadays

[timid quartz]

because!!!

[spare quartz]

sentenced to write a jvm in rust 🙏

[timid quartz]

I barely care to do much of anything

[rustic vine]

school eating time?

I try to find like 10-15 minutes a day to work on something I enjoy

[timid quartz]

Yeah school eats time

And then when I sit down to like code or whatever

Just not a whole lot of energy to

Usually at least

[rustic vine]

do you got classes on friday

my friday this semester is free and its been really awesome

[spare quartz]

huh i've got the opposite problem

too much time, not spending enough of it on schoolwork

[rustic vine]

I wish

[timid quartz]

I don’t and it’s been great

[rustic vine]

🙏

I'm hoping to move off campus for junior year

[timid quartz]

Yeah you find like 10-15 minutes each day to do your actual work

[rustic vine]

I was meant to move off campus this year but

it didn't end up happening cause

idk I forgot something something

[spare quartz]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/719613396189970493/1243960219915124736/ad_banner2.gif

[rustic vine]

roommate complications

install oracle today

[timid quartz]

type Num_Missing_Assignments is
  range 500 .. Integer'Last;
type GPA_Type is new Float 
  range 0.0 .. 2.0;
type Atp_Storages is record
   Is_Cat : Boolean := True;
   Missing_Assignments : 
     Num_Missing_Assignments := 500;
   GPA : GPA_Type := 0.7;
end record;

[rustic vine]

GPA := 0.7

[timid quartz]

real lemme add that

[rustic vine]

walrus operator

[timid quartz]

at least you can't do

int myvar = 0;
if (myvar = 1) {
  // ...
}

[rustic vine]

wym

can't do in what

[timid quartz]

in ada

[rustic vine]

oh

[spare quartz]

beh

[timid quartz]

I mean honestly that's really only a C/C++ problem

[spare quartz]

i don't know if i wanna trust the default 'Read...

[timid quartz]

trust it

[spare quartz]

what if it reads minor first 😓

[timid quartz]

skill issue

[timid quartz]

why are you not using Interfaces

smh

[spare quartz]

not trustable

[timid quartz]

im using interfaces and im fine

smh

[spare quartz]

cause you're on a little endian machine

what if my code needs to run on like

powerpc big endian or something

[timid quartz]

it wont

[spare quartz]

it will

[timid quartz]

mmm nope

[spare quartz]

middle endian

[timid quartz]

modern endian

ancient endian

[spare quartz]

😓

[timid quartz]

I might learn how to use blender to model and texture stuff

[timid quartz]

anyways its just like

my brain dont wanna

[rustic vine]

whats been really important for me is working on something I find fun and then stopping immediately the moment I'm not enjoying it

I took a really long break from doing luau stuff cause I just hated the platform (rblx)

im slowly getting back into it now because the language itself is fun to write

at least personally the moment I don't find myself enjoying what i work on I lose motivation for it and find it extremely hard to gain it back

[spare quartz]

linker version added

almost everything uses https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/msvc-toolset-minor-version-number-14-40-in-vs-2022-v17-10/

except for guardsman.exe which uses v14.0

[spare quartz]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

JVM v3 time

[timid quartz]

@spare quartz you finished?

[spare quartz]

?

[timid quartz]

ur lil exe reader

[spare quartz]

no

BUT do you wanna see sometihng tcool

https://fixupx.com/i/status/1862848331543921048

[rustic vine]

skinned mesh set to glass material, transparency set to 5 and disabled highlight under it?

[spare quartz]

creator didnt appear to comment, probably editablemesh

[rustic vine]

oh I have no idea what editable meshes are

[spare quartz]

basically blender but programmatic

[rustic vine]

oh interesting

[spare quartz]

allows you to create vertexes/triangles and set UVs/colors

along with editableimages they're quite powerful (but scaling up becomes a challenge cause luaus performance gets in the way)

[rustic vine]

you can do some really weird/cool things with glass transparency set to >5

it kinda inverts the refraction calculations I think

[rustic vine]

I'd expect it to be engine performance not luau perf

whats slow?

[spare quartz]

engine is probably more slower you're right

[rustic vine]

yeah, luau is fast

extremely fast

fast enough to beat out native code sometimes

I wish lua caught on instead of python

[spare quartz]

the places where it's performance is capped is stuff like, say,

if you wanna add a psuedo screenspace shader you need to raytrace... a llloooottt

because roblox doesn't expose rendering buffers

[rustic vine]

Raycasts are fast

Or, fast enough for 99% of use cases

[spare quartz]

not en masse which is what you need for a shader

[rustic vine]

Maybe not for this, lol

Yea ok

[spare quartz]

great for mouse/target occlusion obviously but here

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[spare quartz]

roblox engineers have said they aren't gonna allow us to write anything like this more effectively anytime soon

luau "running" on the gpu would be cool though...

honestly i wish there was a version of roblox for like

scratch projects

it's a stupidly good visualization tool sometimes

[spare quartz]

lemme uhh

port over more of the optional header

and im gonna try adding loading

if you need to see the current progress its @ https://github.com/Bread-Experts-Group/exe

[rustic vine]

Yea I don't see this ever happening

[timid quartz]

how many bones are in that water

[spare quartz]

zero

it's probably editablemeshes (above)

[rustic vine]

It might be a skinned mesh too

Bones are extremely cheap to set transform to

Even cheaper than setting cframe sometimes

[spare quartz]

it's sad to see sometimes though

[timid quartz]

arent editablemeshes pretty expensive tho

[spare quartz]

because they gotta maintain their mobile support we don't get to have things like deferred decals

(which they showed off in the forums once but it was never pushed)

[spare quartz]

yeah but i'd imagine it'd be good enough for that

[lavish dove]

w gameplay

[ashen pollen]

kinda excited this will be my first year doing advent of code lol

[lavish dove]

woah I had no idea it was today

well toomrow

[lavish dove]

day 1 was ez

in the instructions, it says to take the distance between the numbers so instead of |x-y| I did x+y lmao

[timid quartz]

Yeah they go from “a baby could do this” to “this has a novel solution in a research paper published last year”

[pallid loom]

https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/try-it/

[lavish dove]

thats a container

[lavish dove]

woah I get 4 gigabytes of ram and 50 gigabytes of space for free!?!?

[pallid loom]

good enough is it not

[lavish dove]

I mean it wont let me ssh into it from my pc

i have to use it from the website

lmao it says theres a incus man page and there isnt 💀

by this I meant like I could game on it lol

I think I can game on this

but I cant get x forwarding for any cool games

I remember I used to hunt for free gpu plans and play some games with those

Access to this service may be revoked at any time for any reason
Access to this service is solely provided to evaluate Incus
they would probably straight up ban me if they saw me reliably using it and playing games on it

[timid quartz]

@spare quartz maybe this is a sign

[spare quartz]

are you going to write kotlin now

[timid quartz]

mmmaybe

still is stinky jvm

[spare quartz]

THE JVM IS NOT STINKY BARK BKAKTKAKRBAKKKRA

[timid quartz]

IT IS

ME WHEN MY APP PAUSES FOR 5 WHOLE SECONDS TO GC

[spare quartz]

simple solution

no-op gc

:3

anyways NOT BEING PEDANTIC thats an issue of HotSpot

[timid quartz]

I bet you use Zulu JVM or something

Or Azure

[spare quartz]

no i use intellijs

code hotswapping

[timid quartz]

IntelliGay

[timid quartz]

also: memory leak

[spare quartz]

who cares

"memory is cheap" as the webdevs say

[timid quartz]

I have Zulu JVM installed currently

[spare quartz]

🧌

[timid quartz]

or at least that's the default

@spare quartz is temurin any good

[spare quartz]

i dont see much use of any of the other jdks

[timid quartz]

mainly hotspot and intellij huh

[spare quartz]

everything is hotspot

its the reference implementation

but this is what i have installed if it means anything

[timid quartz]

openjdk

hmmm

ocaml, elixir, or kotlin..

YOU will definitely say kotlin

idk it does seem like a neat lang but it reeks of jvm copium

the repl doesn't even have up arrow support sob

@spare quartz bruh what is this https://github.com/JetBrains/amper

[spare quartz]

I dunno

[spare quartz]

Honestly

Might do that idea I had a while ago

[timid quartz]

?

Making JVM #3?

[spare quartz]

Programming langauge

[timid quartz]

oh dewit

[spare quartz]

But making it compile for JVM bc

[timid quartz]

Actually what would be really funny is Clojure

https://clojure.org/

[spare quartz]

I’ve only heard of clojure

Not something that I’d ever use but it sounds interesting

[timid quartz]

Give lisp a try

[spare quartz]

but that one sounds weirder :<

[timid quartz]

Well

You can use just Common Lisp

[spare quartz]

What about Forth

[timid quartz]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[spare quartz]

pe.adb:12:14: error: missing body for "Read_COFF_Characteristics" declared at pe.ads:126
pe.adb:12:14: error: missing body for "Read_Optional_Header_Windows_Subsystem" declared at pe.ads:223
pe.adb:12:14: error: missing body for "Read_DLL_Characteristics" declared at pe.ads:260
pe.adb:12:14: error: missing body for "DLL_Characteristics_Flags_Put_Image" declared at pe.ads:267
pe.adb:12:14: error: missing body for "Read_Windows_Specific_Optional_Header_64" declared at pe.ads:297
pe.adb:12:14: error: missing body for "Read_Windows_Specific_Optional_Header_32" declared at pe.ads:310

[timid quartz]

:haha:

jk

what happened

[spare quartz]

nothing i just made a ton of changes

thats a list of everything i need to imple

[full berry]

based linux messages cont.

https://cdn.astrohweston.xyz/u/2e94b5c2-25b8-4b25-81e7-658659e8c4eb.png

[spare quartz]

it is time

i do real PROGRAMMING

[timid quartz]

brain no work for real programming

me wanna dev qserf

me look at todo list

me dont think can do any of it

[lavish dove]

this is me lol

did a free trial, it immediately tries to charge me 100 bucks

they used to be respectable and wait until the free trial was over lmao

[spare quartz]

I lied btw

All I did today was submit some stupid old JVM to the Roblox spotlight thing

[timid quartz]

rip

meanwhile I've done 0 programming at all today

[spare quartz]

BUT I’m getting food soon

So maybe programming then

You have been issued a demerit.

[spare quartz]

@timid quartz @rustic vine

ignore weird crop, image I got from another server

it appears the events persist on players

[rustic vine]

interesting, thats not too surprising to me

actually, while its not surprising I feel like roblox should call destroy behind the scenes

not sure why they don't

[spare quartz]

maybe they’re doing memoization/caching in some way with the player object behind the scenes?

you’d at least expect them to disconnect all events either way

https://devforum.roblox.com/t/new-player-and-character-destroy-behavior/2711317

looks like docs are outdated

[rustic vine]

looks like this is opt-in still

so I wouldn't say the docs are outdated

maybe its worth a mention of this opt-in setting in that section, though

docs are OSS so submit a pr 🙂

[spare quartz]

post says early ‘24 they’ll switch to opt-out

and mid ‘24 they’ll remove the option to opt out

[rustic vine]

early... 24?

its late 24 my guy

[spare quartz]

yes

[rustic vine]

where are you seeing that

[spare quartz]

that’s why I said the docs were outdated

[rustic vine]

its still opt-in

im 95% sure of that

[spare quartz]

wh

what was this deadline??

[rustic vine]

looks like they forgot

about the deadline

[spare quartz]

average engineers

[rustic vine]

https://devforum.roblox.com/t/new-player-and-character-destroy-behavior-enabled-by-default/3161577

ah

its opt-out

nevermind

its not opt-out

LOL

[spare quartz]

😭

[rustic vine]

cooked up an abomination today
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/988661200827072592/1313064271634108416/code.png?ex=674f6ea5&is=674e1d25&hm=38ea8bf2f0e3e53335b41a99f2e9655e01af0e814bfbd13688ba5d057a80047e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=723&height=670

it works 😄

[spare quartz]

maybe typing was a mistake

[proud creek]

i agree

[rustic vine]

chill bruh its great

the types aren't that bad

they're only bad when the typechecker is sucky

[lavish dove]

whats this

[rustic vine]

hater

[rustic vine]

defunct players and characters actually get destroyed

instead of being removed

(parent to nil, children not cleared, whatever else)

[lavish dove]

oh damn lol

that sounds more like a bug

[rustic vine]

look at how AWESOME this is, this is to show how awesome types are
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1278332589526220873/1312991475482497094/code.png?ex=674f2ad9&is=674dd959&hm=78eb0d5dd70815ea29910cb2100b389a4b442e219c66d2135dfca3292a9aa9b8&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=957&height=604&

[lavish dove]

than a feature lol

[rustic vine]

probably a feature that got left like that until someone noticed

but can't be fixed without a rollout period because

people rely on UB

yay ub

[lavish dove]

fr

cant they just do what they did with filtering and make it so old games have to toggle it on and new ones cannot turn it off

so they dont stop working if they are abandoned

[rustic vine]

thats what it is

or well, eventually it'll be opt-out

which'll break whoever still relies on it and doesn't opt out

[lavish dove]

wait but opt-out would still break abandoned games

[rustic vine]

yes

[lavish dove]

bruh

average roblox L

[rustic vine]

🤷‍♂️

without breakage there is no progress

[lavish dove]

yeah but

they could make it so only new not abandoned things are broken lol

[rustic vine]

whats abandoned

[lavish dove]

bro

that welding game

[rustic vine]

not my point

[lavish dove]

anomalous a-888

[rustic vine]

im saying how do you count abandoned

[lavish dove]

developer stopped touching it, but because nothing is broken they still work

[rustic vine]

yeah how is roblox gonna count that

ask every developer if they've stopped touching it?

[lavish dove]

by if its old or not!!!

[rustic vine]

that doesn't work

[lavish dove]

that worked with filtering enabled

[rustic vine]

filtering had the same process

it was opt in, then opt out

then opt out was completely removed

[lavish dove]

fr??

[rustic vine]

im not sure whats different from this vs. fe

[lavish dove]

I remember fe everything old worked even after the opt out was disabled

because they were still opted out, as they were untouched

[rustic vine]

in 2018 FE became the default and it was made opt out

later, opt out was removed completely

[lavish dove]

but I remember they undid it because every single game broke

[rustic vine]

this is the same rollout cycle they do for the majority of their features

idk what to say

[lavish dove]

https://roblox.fandom.com/wiki/Class:Workspace/FilteringEnabled
bruh this says fe is forced on on every game new and old

[rustic vine]

yeah?

its been that way since 2018

[lavish dove]

bruh im looking for proof

to support my point

because I vivdly remember

[rustic vine]

fumbling rn

[lavish dove]

the old iron man game worked after 2018 into 2019 when something else broke it 😭

and the welding game still works

I cant find a link to teh welding game but its from like 2013

and wasnt updated since like 2016

and still works to my knowledge

[rustic vine]

🤷‍♂️

not all games necessarily relied on non-fe behavior

it wasn't a guarantee break for everyone

[lavish dove]

wait but before fe the only way to do client <-> server was by just modifying the parts right????

[rustic vine]

not sure what you mean by that

pre-fe all changes on the client replicated to the server

[lavish dove]

yea

[rustic vine]

so yeah, not all games necessarily relied on that behavior

[lavish dove]

what other behavior was there?

[rustic vine]

and if they didn't and never got updated, they were never broken

?

changes on the server would still replicate to clients

[lavish dove]

yes

[rustic vine]

if you didn't rely on a client change replicating to the server (and thus other clients) then your game was not broken

[lavish dove]

wait what but didnt fe make it so that was impossible because that was the security issue

bro I am fumbling 💀

[rustic vine]

you've lost me

idk what ur talking about brah

[lavish dove]

because any change you made on client replicated to server, you could delete every part on the client and every part on the server would be deleted

[rustic vine]

yeah?

whats your point

[lavish dove]

fe made that impossible
so every game broke because the only way you could do client <-> server was to change something on the client that replicates immediately to the server

bruh nvm

[rustic vine]

dude idk what ur on about

[lavish dove]

me either

[rustic vine]

the last 2 things you said are just facts

theres no disagreement

[lavish dove]

wait fr?

[rustic vine]

???

when did I contradict what you said

[lavish dove]

then connect the dots

uhm

[rustic vine]

what

[lavish dove]

old games dont have filtering enabled

[rustic vine]

you're saying that you remember games that weren't updated post fe being forced still working

I responded with that not necessarily all games pre-fe relied on non-fe behavior

and if they didn't, they weren't broken

thats all i said

[lavish dove]

yea

[rustic vine]

ok so whats the confusion??

[lavish dove]

Its all in my head

[rustic vine]

insanity

[lavish dove]

the voices

[spare quartz]

sentenced to using glorified numbers as objects 🙏

[spare quartz]

okay

i finally know how to run exes on linux

unfortunately i dont know how to execute it

WAIT

THATS HOW JIT COMPILATION IS DONE

im so stupid

• get hot function
  • iterate over instructions
  • assemble
  • optimize
  • write machine code to memory segment
  • mark as executable
  • return
• push to stack

the closest i got to this in lua was essentially transpiling JVM bc -> Lua then using loadstring

but that's more of a footgun since loadstring disables luau optimizations iirc

[rustic vine]

im in the thick of it

[spare quartz]

just found my new favorite scp

💯💯💯💯💯💯

[spare quartz]

 OPTIONAL_HEADER => 
 [
  (MAGIC => PE_32_EXTENDED_ADDRESSING,
   LINKER_VERSION => v14.40,
   SIZES => 
   (CODE =>  2560000,
    DATA => 
    (INITIALIZED =>  2818048,
     UNINITIALIZED =>  4096)),
   ENTRY_POINTER =>  1213760,
   BASES => 
   (MAGIC => PE_32_EXTENDED_ADDRESSING,
    CODE =>  4096),

this parts done

now moving onto windows 64/32

[spare quartz]

windows header read

and with not a lot of extra work, DLLs read in full

now to read sections

[full berry]

atp go to bed

[spare quartz]

no im busy

[full berry]

atp..

how fucked up is your sleep schedule

[spare quartz]

i date a british person

is that enough

[full berry]

TERRY???

[spare quartz]

wha

no

[spare quartz]

sections done

[spare quartz]

section flag done

time to sleep

[timid quartz]

this is amazing

[spare quartz]

https://fixupx.com/tsoding/status/1863996394115100741/photo/1

booooorinnnnng

Send.Fields.Replace ("Content-Length", Size'Image); ftw

[lavish dove]

lmao

[spare quartz]

🙏

ALL OF THEM‼️

COMPILER BOOTSTRAPING IS A COMMON THING

[lavish dove]

lol

[spare quartz]

time to do this

[spare quartz]

that seems to have worked

[spare quartz]

lint test:

食べること、ハムスター

[lavish dove]

no way

are you making an ime

[spare quartz]

no just sending that to troll aera rn

[lavish dove]

lol

i keep having trouble with page tables

its mostly where they are in memory

well its more all were they are in memory

cuz nothings fucking aligned

im trying to access phsical memory through 4 layers of abstraction because of bootloader

at this rate im literaly just going to make bios and then uefi boot with how crazy it is being

[spare quartz]

progress i think

[timid quartz]

What’s with the Japanese

And why are you going to eat a hamster

[spare quartz]

Mwahahahahahahha

[spare quartz]

I have an ego the size of a small planet.
My name is Linus Torvalds and I am your god.
Do you pine for the days when men were men and wrote their own device drivers?
If you need more than 3 levels of indentation, you're screwed anyway, and should fix your program.
You know you're brilliant, but maybe you'd like to understand what you did 2 weeks from now.
An infinite number of monkeys typing into GNU emacs would never make a good program.
Is "I hope you all die a painful death" too strong?
Most days I wake up thinking I'm the luckiest bastard alive.
I'm always right. This time I'm just even more right than usual.
And what's the internet without the rick-roll?

[proud creek]

hi linux

[spare quartz]

for<'a> F: FnOnce(&'a T) -> Pin<Box<dyn Future<Output = Result<U, Box<dyn Error>>> + 'a>>

[timid quartz]

❤️

rust

[spare quartz]

Stupid !

[timid quartz]

honestly it's so bad because of async

that's what the whole Pin<Box<dyn Future<...>>> mess is about

F is a FnOnce (so a function that runs once) that has a borrowed reference to some T that lives as long as the 'a lifetime

This FnOnce returns a future that resolves to a Result<U, Box<dyn Error>> and the future also lives for lifetime 'a (the Box<dyn Error> just means that the error could be virtually any type of error)

The future is also heap-allocated and pinned to a spot in memory

@spare quartz boom :3

[spare quartz]

🤢

that'd be AT LEAST 5 package declarations in ada

the way it should be

[timid quartz]

nah

rust way >>

we love encoding semantics directly into types

[spare quartz]

🤢

rustだ凄まじい

[timid quartz]

misused だ

[spare quartz]

DAMMMIITTT

[timid quartz]

I think you meant は or が

[spare quartz]

what did I say then

[timid quartz]

uhh grammatically incorrect

[spare quartz]

well

literally what did I say

[timid quartz]

hold on gotta install fcitx5

[timid quartz]

so だ is a copula that can end sentences and it kinda means "be/is" so eg これは猫だ is literally "that is a cat"

so you kinda like ended a sentence and started a new one

it's like "Rust. Terrible." almost

[spare quartz]

Aaaaa

[timid quartz]

it's also used in a few other places but it depends

[spare quartz]

はrust凄まじい

?

[timid quartz]

not quite

but close

particles normally follow things rather than preceed them

[spare quartz]

I see は “indicates sentence topic,” buttttt I still need to learn placement

[timid quartz]

yes

[spare quartz]

oh ic

[timid quartz]

placement normally is after the noun or whatever that is the topic

so

rustは凄まじい

is grammatically correct

[spare quartz]

Google translate apparently thinks I’m calling rust awesome….

I think they’re biased

[timid quartz]

lmao based

が can also be used in place of は and the meaning is largely preserved

[spare quartz]

what’s the difference

[timid quartz]

however が normally puts more emphasis on what comes before it while は puts more emphasis on what comes after

so it's the difference between
は -> Rust is TERRIBLE
が -> RUST is terrible

[spare quartz]

would it make sense to emphasize the indication?

like rust IS terrible

[timid quartz]

it depends

with は it's almost like you and whoever you're talking to already know what Rust is and you're stating that it's terrible
with が you and the speaker already know something is terrible and you're emphasizing that Rust is

it's like what's known and unknown

so perhaps が would be more appropriate if we were already on the topic of bad programming languages

it's strange and the japanese professors have said that even japanese people debate about when to use either

[spare quartz]

adaが遥かに上回るえー javascript

[timid quartz]

im not really sure what the えー is doing there

but the ー is only used for katakana

[spare quartz]

tried using it to convey a delay like umm

[timid quartz]

if you want to get the same effect with hiragana you do some shenanighans

[timid quartz]

ah I c

ええと is commonly used for that

im sure えええ is fine too

[spare quartz]

that’s what I was trying to remember

[rustic vine]

japan somehow took chinese and made it more complicated

[spare quartz]

input directories read... just gotta resolve the RVAs

[timid quartz]

Nah

[spare quartz]

Fym nah

[timid quartz]

Don’t gotta resolve em

[spare quartz]

Yes you do

[timid quartz]

Mmm no

[spare quartz]

Mmm yes

Tell me what RVA means rn

[spare quartz]

https://fixupx.com/TheGingerBill/status/1864306366199857556

[timid quartz]

Relative Virtual Address

[spare quartz]

yessss

which means you have to resolve it

dum dum

[timid quartz]

Mmm nah

[spare quartz]

you can't just Set_Index (F, RVA)...

[timid quartz]

kotlin more like uhm

uh

notlin

[spare quartz]

what.

that’s not kotlin you dolt

[timid quartz]

i know

im doing kotlin rn

[spare quartz]

uhhhhhggg

so dumb!!!

[timid quartz]

I agree how could you enjoy this language

[spare quartz]

cause it’s good

[timid quartz]

nuh

jvm

[spare quartz]

JVM is good

have you even written one

[timid quartz]

nope

cause it's stinky

[spare quartz]

gay..

[timid quartz]

says the jvm user

[spare quartz]

In this diagram I’ve depicted your stupid language second to last

while Ada beats them all

[timid quartz]

actually

rust is second to first :3

[spare quartz]

ugh

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN

[timid quartz]

Ada isn't even on the thing

[spare quartz]

yeah cause we beat all of that

we got an average of 0.42s

but the guy who made it doesn’t know how to code….

[timid quartz]

mmm still bad though ;3

[spare quartz]

LITERALLY 0TH PLACE

[timid quartz]

rust betr

[spare quartz]

I don’t have any good images to send in response to that

[timid quartz]

exactly

cause you know rust is peak

[spare quartz]

'a:

[timid quartz]

    fun parseInput(input: List<String>): Pair<List<Int>, List<Int>> {
        var list1 = mutableListOf<Int>()
        var list2 = mutableListOf<Int>()

        val split = input.map { it.split("   ").map(String::toInt) }
        for (row in split) {
            list1 += row[0]
            list2 += row[1]
        }

        return Pair(list1, list2)
    }

icky

[spare quartz]

your compiler taking 5 years to do hello world:

[spare quartz]

don’t use Pair(x, y)

use the infix form x to y

[timid quartz]

x to y

wtf

infix form

(def list1 (sort
             (map Integer/parseInt
               (map first lines))))
(def list2 (sort
             (map Integer/parseInt
               (map second lines))))

❤️

[spare quartz]

🤢

[rustic vine]

wonder why luajit is so slow, and no cpp either, "I don't agree with the benchmark so the benchmark is wrong"

[timid quartz]

doesn't this imply a mapping though

[spare quartz]

well… it is a mapping

x to y maps to Pair(x, y)

[timid quartz]

blah

tuples ftw

[rustic vine]

tuples are bad instead allocate a new object with 2 fields

although isn't java supposed to (or already) get structs that can be pushed to the stack

value objects

https://openjdk.org/jeps/8277163

I guess its not in yet

[spare quartz]

Aside from arrays I haven’t seen that in the JVMS

but I’m only up to code for 21

not 23… or whatever else they’re adding in 24

[rustic vine]

you're getting module in

23?

or was it 24?

idk bruh

import module org.whatever.whatever

[spare quartz]

please Java gods… bless us by adding more annotation field types…

[rustic vine]

ah its 23