But also tends to be very evil
#TLoZ: Tears of the Kingdom Spoiler Thread!
sly shadow
me searching for places to buy crystallised zonaite like
I did however find a really neat cluster of sky islands that somehow all flowed into each other really well and I wish they were all like that because boy are some of them just "there is a tree."
ALSO ||autobuild really does make building vehicles worthwhile||
placid flume
https://tenor.com/view/fresh-prince-room-empty-alone-will-s-mith-gif-11321840
Me with charges
Literally the only place i can get crystalized charges are near the first recall shrine
south mural
Nah that’s like the only place you can convert them
And the one near lookout landing
What IM trying to find are more of those funny statues
That you offer poes to
I’d like to purchase all your bomb flowers for undisclosed purposes (I am an agent of hylian warfare)
wary pumice
Is there more places to buy Zonai Charges w/ Zonaite, on the other hand?
I have
a good amount of Zonaite that I've yet to spend too much on
south mural
Tbh
They’re best saved for autobuild
You can find crystallised charges from beating bosses in the depths
Or raiding Yiga clan camps
||or also pursuing the master kohga quest||
There are mines underneath every main civilisation on the surface
Ie thee is a gerudo mine under gerudo village etc
||but you’ll ‘unlock’ those as you do the master kohga quest too so really just do that||
wary pumice
I see, I see..
cyan copper
Is there more places to buy Zonai Charges w/ Zonaite, on the other hand?
Where you find the autobuild, there is a shop for charges
uneven hazel
decided it was probably safe to have a quick listen to some of the soundtrack
immediately spoiled the final boss track name
👍
south mural
Oh my god
You have no idea
How annoying that is
Trying to listen to some of TGAA2 ost while being like halfway through the game is like walking on a transparent tightrope
still atlas
Trying to listen to some of TGAA2 ost while being like halfway through the game ...
You are far braver than I will ever be
Finally started doing main story stuff again
I just gotta say
||Hydrant Roomba MVP||
south mural
No seriously I can’t even read a character wiki without being spoiled in like the first 2 paragraphs
I know it’s a “what did you expect” kind of thing but i what the first game I should be safe to some extent
vague path
Made it to my second main quest region of the 4
Town: || Goron City ||
This area seems to have been changed up a lot
and also what the heck happened to || Yunobo || LOL
--
Also got the Master Sword
The sequence where you || ride the dragon to pull it out || was 10/10
south mural
I’m curious
How many people here got the master sword the ‘intended way’ ||heading to korok forest to get the quest|| or just skipped that entirely and yeeted themselves towards the master sword
uneven hazel
well somebody in here told me it was in the ||Korok Forest||
so naturally I stumbled across it before then
sorry deemo
don't read that
I saw ||the Dragon|| and was like 'I wonder if we're allowed to touch that'
sturdy flint
Puffboi thanks for the memories order btw I finally found the location in Forgotten Temple but I don’t need your order because it’s the exact same order in the temple xD
The game orders them for you but I appreciate you!!!
south mural
All good lol
naive imp
...what exactly do I do with charges
junior pilot
put them in the capsule machines or temporarily increase your battery
south mural
^
You get tons and I mean tons of capsules with big orbs but best to save them for battery stuff
Especially if you’ve made a machine to traverse the depths
naive imp
Oh no I mean the crystalized charges
I bought a ton and they're not even in my inventory
sturdy flint
Key Items I believe
You take them to a refinery to get battery charges
100 charges for one additional cell
south mural
They’re the battery icons on your map
Close to recall shrine and outside lookout landing
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I guarantee most people here didn’t get their second full battery until they beat at least 2 dungeons
uneven hazel
it's done
it's over
I'm crying I will make no illusion otherwise
Final 30 minutes thoughts below
||I wanted Juicy Ganon and we got Juicy Ganon. First phase was fine. Health bar extending to the edge of the screen? 'This time I'll take more than your arm? Ganondorf's funnier than I'll ever be. Second phase was annoying but not necessarily in a bad way. I do like that he can dodge your attacks.||
I'm so fucking mad that I spoiled the final boss like 2 hours ago
If I'd seen it raw I'd have lost my fucking mind
||Anyway the Dragon bit is definetely the weakest of the three phases but it matches and probably surpasses Dark Beast in grandeur. Then the skydiving bit? With Zelda? Chef's kiss.||
And the FUCKING TRAILER MUSIC?
yeah
Yeah
yeah.
oh god and finally a good fucking credits theme
that isn't just the four main themes of the game in a row
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Congratulations
uneven hazel
As far as I can tell for post-game there's only the map indicator (42% baby) and Ganondorf's profile added to the collection
uneven hazel
I didn't even rush I've played like 40 hours lmao
south mural
One week has passed j have yet to see my play time actually
uneven hazel
I think it's 10 days
uneven hazel
but it sits just below Xenoblade Definitive in my games list and that's 45 hours I think
man it's so strange that like
that's it!
the last 4 years have all been building up to that
and it's done
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The final phase just from a cinematic point
uneven hazel
I think it would've been more impactful if they'd ||actually kept Zelda as a dragon||
obviously they would not
south mural
Like dark beast ganon was a spectacle but it’s also a big fucking boar in a field
Final phase was actually visually and thematically stunning
uneven hazel
but going through the story knowing that she would ||change back|| kinda dulled the sparkle a bit
south mural
Yeah it was weird tbh
uneven hazel
I'm beginning to wonder if anything will ever topple SS from my #1 spot
because this hasn't
this hasn't
south mural
The game or the final boss?
uneven hazel
game as a whole
south mural
Fair
uneven hazel
I think the problem is I value narrative over gameplay
oh also
lmao
for some reason the game took my shirt off for the final cutscenes?
not sure why
but uh
Topless Link for the ending was funny
south mural
Yeah😎😎
uneven hazel
Link's shirt not my actual irl shirt
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||You gotta look good for Zelda right||
uneven hazel
that would be quite the immersion
south mural
I think my only complaint based on what I hoped for the game
I honestly hate
That the main theme only plays in the credits
I mean specifically
The drop
The good part
We get the beginning part like twice in the game nah I want that good shit
uneven hazel
but BotW was the same in that regard I think
south mural
I was hoping it would play for the title drop in the beginning of the game
uneven hazel
its theme only played in its vanilla form with the title drop
south mural
True but they also played taht for dark beast
uneven hazel
I have a few niggles with the game
I think if they had fleshed out the story properly it would've been incredible
as it stands I don't really care for Sonia or Rauru?
I don't think they got enough screen time
nor Mineru
uneven hazel
Honestly ||Mineru|| has a lot of importance in lategame for someone who appears in like 2 memories
If they'd done the story justice I think it would've been on SS levels
south mural
Honestly ||zelda|| carried the story
I wasn’t as emotionally invested because at that point I had already pieced together the story so when ||the final memory happened|| I was like “oh now it’s happening”
uneven hazel
yeah I got some of my memories in reverse
south mural
Yeah tbh you have to see like one or two vital memories to understand the entire story
uneven hazel
so I got ||Rauru is sad bc Sonia died > Ganon plucking the stone from Sonia's body > Sonia dying||
in that order
so that final memory did nothing lmao
south mural
The final boss is absolutely brutal if you go in blind
Which makes it an amazing final boss to fight
Were you spoiled on the fight itself or just the final boss?
||that mfer broke my shiny new hylian shield in that fight that’s how raw he is||
uneven hazel
I was listening to the Wind Temple boss theme and the suggested video was ||Demon Dragon||
which sucks bc it's the only spoilery bit of the fight!
If you don't beat the four regions do you have to do their boss fights before Ganon?
is it like a blight scenario
yes you do apparently
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There’s also a unique cutscene if ||you don’t pull out the master sword before the final boss|| since it’s required for the last phase
placid flume
south mural
Consistent over all incarnations of ganondorf:
Evil
Cunning
Embodiment of darkness
…that
uneven hazel
man Ganon really does have a set of pearly whites
oh you have to fight ||Phantom Ganon|| in the depths too
junior pilot
I didn't even rush I've played like 40 hours lmao
40 hours in TotK is rushing
uneven hazel
I'm not taking opinions from benny 'I've not reached Rito yet' baer99
sly shadow
40 hours probably isn't rushing but like you've only probably touched 1/3 of all the stuff lol
uneven hazel
My apologies having added it up it was actually 53 hours
sly shadow
pls stop playing and throw the game into the nearest pond so Link can live a safe and fulfilling life in the wild
uneven hazel
game sucks needs more content
sly shadow
honestly why did they stop at 1000 koroks
why not 1001
or 1010
or 2000
or 200,000
sly shadow
honestly the sky's the limit when you're already filling your game with the little bastards
uneven hazel
here have some more fun statistics
I spent longer beating the story than I have on 100%ing any other Zelda game I've played
with the exception of BotW
I played for an average of 1 hour and 46 minutes each session
junior pilot
are there actually 1000 koroks in this game
sly shadow
yes.
i wonder if there was a dedicated korok team
responsible for placing all the koroks
junior pilot
holy shit why did they make MORE
i actually thought there would be less because i feel like i'm not finding as many as i did in botw.
junior pilot
i haven't found a single korok underground yet
uneven hazel
there's probably fewer 'Korks'
bc the friends give you two
and there's likely more than 50 of them
naive imp
I saw the name of the final boss in a music video and while I wish I hadn't... I feel like I should have seen it coming
Probably gonna be raw as heck though
also trying to remove it from my mind
junior pilot
i've got 50 hours of playtime now. no, i still didn't do any main quests.
today i delivered some eyes to a statue and got my second battery.
trim coral
Started Tears of the Kingdom.
||I see Link got Samus’d||
uneven hazel
The eyes quest took me ages
bc they despawn if you get too far from them
so I dropped one, went to get a light root, and could'nt find it again
south mural
I went to open a chest like a foot away from an eye and it despawned on me
I was like on the elevators going to the statue
uneven hazel
It's the literal version of blink and you'll miss it
south mural
Ok so I don’t know what my play time was when I first beat the game but my current playtime is 65 hours
So I’m gonna estimate at least 50 hours for the main story
south mural
Link has moved on from korok abuse, this is not a drill, keep your doors locked and windows shut
vague path
I beat my second region (Eldin)
Surprised that the game || shows you basically the same exact cutscene || as the previous one when you beat it
Also surprised to see || Gohma || back (Boss fight spoilers)
|| Way less cool than the last boss ngl, but then again... it's Gohma so what can you expect|| (thoughts on the boss fight)
I would say that the || Fire Temple || was a little bit better design wise than the || Wind Temple || (Hebra)
Though the || boss fight in the latter was way better so I prefered that dungeon experience as a whole ||
Regrettably, since this is the second time a ||dungeon|| has been more|| open-ended||, my worry that this game ||would not bring back traditional dungeons|| is realized. Granted, I do like them a tad bit more than ||in BOTW I'd say, but they still suffer from many of the same problems as that game. ||A shame tbh. ||Dungeons|| were much more enjoyable in the old style of Zelda games in my opinion.
south mural
At least they’re not permanently locked out after you beat them like in botw
I like totk dungeons because there’s no set path
The fire temple is multiple floors and you can reach them the intended way or the ascend cheese way
vague path
I just really dislike how the BOTW dungeon formula is find a set number of terminals + a boss and it's over
old dungeons had so much more depth to them
mini boss, finding the maps / keys / compass / boss key...
these dungeons can be done in like half an hour or less if you're focusing on the objectives and making use of the abilities the game gives you like ascend
But anyways. I have a lot of thoughts on TOTK but I'll largely save them until I beat it.
south mural
The terminal thing kinda sucks I agree
But how do you make a non-linear dungeon while still having set boundaries
They got rid of small keys etc in these dungeons because you can simple ascend though etc
uneven hazel
The ||cutscene|| thing is by far the worst part of the game
But also I think the fire temple is the best in the game so like
Give and take
sly shadow
I've done ||four of the memories and the Rito quest|| so far and honestly I think I might like BotW's story more than TotK's rn
uneven hazel
Do you guys want a side story spoiler with no context
That you'll 100% get if you've seen it in game
south mural
Basically what happens yeah
||master kohga is as much as a side villain as team rocket is to ash||
placid flume
Ive barely spent alot of time on the main story quests and anything surrounding the main story of it and im already making my theories and possible suggestions on where it could go
sturdy flint
I just really dislike how the BOTW dungeon formula is find a set number of termi...
I've only completed the Hebra Region so far but I can comfortably say I still don't mind this approach personally.
The thing about BotW's dungeons was the interactive approach each one had. Could they have done more with them, yes, but the dungeon itself being the puzzle is about as Aonuma design as it gets. Each one was its own puzzle box. It is too easy to fall into the bandwagon hating on these simple dungeon approaches but people are inflating past dungeon design as if they are all masterpieces. Do you even remember Wind Waker dungeons? I don't think a single one of those dungeons is memorable except for Tower of the Gods. Skyward Sword dungeons are EXTREMELY straightforward and easy. Most of them are even linear by design but because the dungeons are interactive and fun, defenders praise those dungeons to the moon and back. Ancient Basin can be beaten in LESS than 30 minutes. I know because I did it. I loved it too. Simple is not the same as lacking.
Across the Zelda series the dungeon designs have definitely had more to them and I love most of the past game dungeons more but I still think BotW's dungeons were better than Wind Waker and even 90% of Twilight Princess dungeons (except for the Sky... and Water).
So far my opinion on the Hebra Region is that it was a fairly weak introduction to TotK's direction of dungeon design. But it was also specifically the first location that you were pointed towards and felt like an introduction/tutorial. It was very spectacle orientated and less intricate. I'll be heading to Eldin next and most likely complete that region over this upcoming holiday weekend and I'll have more to say.
Obviously this opinion will change but I've never really liked how much people talk trash on BotW's dungeons just because they were "simple" as if the entire series isn't full of weak dungeons. It's gotten pretty old and echo chamber-y
uneven hazel
Saw your comment about ss dungeons and started typing an angry response
Saw you predicted this reaction and now I will simply not rise to the bait
sly shadow
I'm not gonna talk about it much but
Rito dungeon is literally just Vah Medoh 2 and it sucks
if you want to have dungeons in your zelda game, then you need to have dungeons in your zelda game
you can't just call them temples and be done with it
"interact with the five things to win"
so sparse too
big empty corridors with nothing of note in them
nothing interesting on the outside
a handful of enemies, three or four chests
the puzzles are alright but it's basically just "interact with one thing and you win"
naive imp
I loved Vah Medoh tbh
sly shadow
it's weird because the temples are already segmented from the rest of the map, so it's not like they can't be a little more structured
naive imp
Though part of it is the fact it has the best dungeon music
sly shadow
Vah Medoh was great yeah!
but like
again? the same thing? in the sequel?
idk
the boss was really cool tho
naive imp
oh the boss was awesome
though i do think i like the wind temple better than the water and thunder temples
i couldn't see what I was doing at all in the thunder temple
sly shadow
it's weird because the temples are already segmented from the rest of the map, s...
what if you had to fight a Flux Construct to get to one of the fans? or one of the puzzles had multiple steps (revolutionary!!)?
maybe other temples do stuff like that, but that doesn't mean this temple is any better, and it really sets a bad precedent for the rest of the game in my mind
literally one of the puzzles is to just flick a lever to open a door
also worsened by the fact that it tells you where all the fans are so the exploration element is obliterated
and like maybe it's fine right
but you're calling them temples
you said in interviews before the game released that they were dungeons
and it was one of the biggest issues with the last game for many people, so you'd hope it was addressed
so like???
anyway im done now :))
sturdy flint
I agree with the criticism. But now frame it in perspective knowing that EVERY "first" dungeon is almost identical to this one.
No one played Forest Temple in Twilight Princess and walked out of it being super impressed. I don't even want to mention how drab the Dragon Roost Island temple was. Or how minimal the Deku Tree is. Or how bland the Swamp Temple felt like XD
It's only good to compare the game to BotW and itself since both games share a lot of DNA. Was it better than BotW's equivalent dungeon? Honestly no I don't think so. But I don't think it is designed poorly I just think it is intentionally "barren" in order to cultivate a tutorial environment. I think I can forgive it for that and just say it is fine over all.
Besides the lead up and the boss overshadow the temple itself lol. But because it is lead-up and boss I package it all together into one full experience.
From what I hear from my coworkers playing the game, everyone's unimpressed with the Hebra Region dungeon which I honestly agree with. But I forgive it. If the game didn't tell me to go there first I don't think I would have been okay with its flaws.
Now imagine being that person that chose to go to any of the other regions, then decided to do Hebra last lmao. I wonder how that experience would feel.
sly shadow
I get all that, I think they're good points
I don't think it's necessary to tutorialise it tho
In other Zelda games fine, the first dungeon happens like two hours in or even sooner in some cases
But TotK has a dedicated tutorial area. And then (presuming you go for Rito first) all the stuff you do in Hyrule Field, all the stuff on the way to Rito, all the shrines, the Tulin quest, the Ascent...
If after all that you still feel the need to make sure I understand basic game mechanics...?
And even if they needed to tutorialise it, that's not really a reason for it to be so bare. There's like one enemy type in that whole dungeon, and they're the same enemy you've been fighting everywhere else so far. It just feels really bland and like it lacks any real identity, as cliche as that sounds.
The boss is good, I'd argue against the Ascent being good, but even if both those parts were super amazing 10/10 the best the Zelda series has ever offered...well, put it like this:
If you go to a restaurant, and the appetiser is great, and the drinks are great, and the dessert is amazing, but they forgot to even cook the main course...I'm not giving you a good rating lmao.
So I don't think they're valid compensation for the actual "dungeon"
(this isn't me saying your thought process is bad, just that I don't agree with it)
the boats were fun tbf
those like trampoline things? they were really fun
but they barely played into the dungeon themselves
and there were fun in like a super mario way, not a zelda way
uneven hazel
These games aren't traditional Zelda games so they don't have traditional zelda dungeons
Just in the same way they don't have traditional zelda items or a traditional zelda story
sly shadow
I'm not saying they have to have a bunch of cool elements and twists and turns, especially not for the intended "first one"
I just think you should have at least one
like one per dungeon
I don't mind which one, take your pick
just at least one
uneven hazel
The fire temple is better in this regard
As is the Lightning Temple
I think the Wind Temple, the Water Temple, and the ||Shadow Temple|| all put some of their eggs in the approach
As opposed to the Dungeon itself
The spoiler one in particular
Anyway traditional zelda dungeons wouldn't work in botw gamestyle
sly shadow
I mean
lock me in a room with a mini boss I have to beat to get a small key that unlocks a door on the floor above
that's not impossible
you have bosses in the game
you have small keys in the game
you have doors which need small keys in the game
idk
also the rito ascent was mid at best
sly shadow
well make it so there's no floor below that room or smth
uneven hazel
Or fuse together items to make the key shape
uneven hazel
Point being a key in this style is objectively a less interesting solution
sly shadow
keys are items not objects
I mean maybe it's less interesting
but it is challenging
and it's exciting
something notable
maybe the boss could have multiple solutions or smth, so you could build a cannon or ascend through platforms to get higher or pull it apart with ultrahand
all things you can already do in the game to fight bosses
traditional dungeons wouldn't work but I don't think that means all you can do is "press the five buttons"
like again one of the puzzles is to just flick a lever by attaching smth to it
that's not a puzzle that's just one of the game mechanics
there's another door you can open that leads to a huge empty corridor with a tiny chest all the way at the end
just do something, please
sturdy flint
I'm actually curious to know if GMTK will do a Boss Keys video on TotK
Considering how keys no longer matter in the context of BotW and TotK that is.
Also keys exist in Shrines even with all the abilities so it doesn't make sense why they can't be used in dungeons. In fact I think finding the key for a boss room as a great exploration incentive over all and I think I want to support Jet's point on that. The lack of keys definitely feels palpable in the first dungeon at any rate. I understand the new abilities and freedom you have make it hard for design, but not giving any sense of progression stops definitely feels awkward.
I think I miss mini-bosses the most. Jet so is valid for this.
I felt and feel the same about BotW as well. I really did enjoy the BotW dungeons and felt they engaged my attention but I CRAVE that mid-boss progression feeling. When you got to a mid-boss in a Zelda game it felt like you finally reached that halfway mark. You're halfway through you did the thing and now you have to prove you deserve that progress with a fight.
It was a very simple, but effective, method of giving player a solid sense of progression in my perspective.
sturdy flint
Or fuse together items to make the key shape
To support your point here...
The Korok puzzles that have you rotating blocks would be a brilliant way to execute keys. Imagine having to collect pieces of the key throughout the dungeon and then figuring out a way to put it together to fit the door/lock.
Kind of leaning toward Skyward Sword's design.
This comes with the heap of flaws that SS was bashed for though. There's a lot of people that are not good at those kinds of puzzles and find it VERY frustrating to be gated by a puzzle they're not good at.
So not implementing it is the safe method.
And from what I gather here safe is not what people want from new Zelda games anymore lmao
uneven hazel
Botw's boss key would just be a straight line with 5 points on it
That's their Dungeon design
Which is fine
I think it works for this kind of game
placid flume
|| shocked that people are having problems with the Water temple boss fight even tho i beated it on my first try ||
azure needle
i struggled because all my good weapons broke lmao
placid flume
same tbh
sly shadow
||HATENO HAS A SCHOOL NOW||
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||HATENO HAS A SCHOOL NOW||
Do the quests there it’s absolutely worth it
south mural
i don't know what the mayor wants me to do...
Is he asking about some specialty
maiden creek
man the ||house building|| could have been so cool but wow in practice it's kind of terrible
||a little more shape variety or being able to mirror some of the rooms like the indoor stairs and the foyer would have gone a long way
or more customization allowed with wall placement or being able to put doors in the walls because having all of these 2x1 pieces with only one open side is not great in terms of flexibility||
||also WHY DOES GRANTESON FOLLOW YOU AROUND IN THE BUILDING SPACE?? I mean I guess they wanted to make it easier on you to talk to him if you wanted another room but that convenience is not worth him being constantly underfoot while you're trying to move pieces||
maiden creek
||I get that some pieces do have a mandatory wall bc that's the entire point (bow/shield display, gallery, etc.) but man. if they just made all the pieces open top/sides (where it makes sense to do so) and then you could choose where to put ceiling/walls it would be SO MUCH BETTER||
south mural
Also I love the implication that ||Zelda took over links house in hateno village so now he’s building another home just for himself and Purah||
maiden creek
lol
still atlas
||I would even be fine if they just sold wall pieces||
maiden creek
FOR REAL
||ok I care considerably less about this than the arranging mechanics but it's also kind of lame that all other hudson construction houses are colorful and we're stuck with all green||
still atlas
||YEAH WHY ONLY GREEN??||
still atlas
||Dusk Claymore|| get!
south mural
I don’t like how they renamed legacy weapons as “adjective” sword/claymore
except the ||biggoron sword||
still atlas
I just found out how much I skipped when ||doing the sage of spirit quest line||
still atlas
||When exploring Faron I randomly saw a rock falling from the sky, rewinded it up, and then stumbled into the dragonhead shrine||
||I didn't even notice the big door until I came back a little later||
||and I just found out now after beating the game seeing how it was intended||
vague path
||Riju||'s VA sounds a lot different than I remember. Was she recast? She almost has a British inflection to her accent too. (Gerudo region spoilers)
south mural
I guess its a little more enhanced since shes older and has a greater speaking role than botw?
Its different to botw but she doesnt like a completely different voice
vague path
just looked it up
She was not recast
Apparently she also did the voice of ||Urbosa||
Interesting
vague path
Just beat my third region
Easily my favorite dungeon of the game so far
It was a lot closer to a ||traditional Zelda dungeon||
Boss fight was || decent enough. Not my favorite but better than the Fire Temple's. ||
I bet people are going to be comparing this one to the ||Spirit Temple from OoT|| given the nature of its puzzles
The part where you defend ||Gerudo Town|| is like straight out of Hyrule Warriors lmao
Fun side mission
Though perhaps a bit clunky
vague path
Anyway traditional zelda dungeons wouldn't work in botw gamestyle
100% disagree
There is no reason the dungeons have to have progression open ended just because the rest of the game is
Without spoiling, the last dungeon I just did felt almost there
You had to go through the rooms in a set path more or less, or at least it felt that way to me at the start
and I think that's why I liked it more
You have rooms where it's a puzzle that leads to another room in a linear way
versus just... get there however you get there of the others
it's not quite to the same level of linearity as most Zelda dungeons I will admit, nor did it have as much depth as some other traditional Zelda dungeon mechanics IMO, but it still works for the most part. There's no reason other dungeons all have to be open ended from here on just because it's a BOTW-era game.
esp since many of the shrines do the same thing. You can't climb the walls or make a fire and fly unless that is what they want you to do.
Yes, you still have a lot of freedom in most shrines, and that is a benefit of them
But they also lock some of your abilities for the sake of the puzzles. You can't just make a fire and hop to the end of it, unlike a lot of BOTW-era dungeons (with terminals).
and many have a linear overall progression where one room opens another room and so on, even if the way you solve those specific puzzles is open ended - you still have to solve them.
sturdy flint
Hmm.
Seems to me like you're taking a very Galaxy approach to Zelda dungeons.
You want agency and freedom to be removed from the player for more detailed level design, if that makes sense. You don't want Sunshine dungeons where you have almost limitless freedom to approach any puzzle, any room on your own. You would rather the game strip Link's abilities to the minimum and present designed environments.
No matter what... dungeons in BotW and TotK will never give you want you want in this manner... because that's not how the developers intended the game to play. Shrines are loading zone controlled. They can manipulate your inventory by forcing you through the loading zone.
Temples can be stumbled upon. They're in environment with seamless world integration. I can teleport to the Wind Temple and then use it as a place to skydive from (in fact I do this a lot while exploring Hebra).
I think if the developers wanted they could have made each dungeon a loading zone like the shrines. Taken away inventory, and some sandbox freedoms like climbing certain walls, then designed a dungeon with those limitations in mind... but I don't think that feels good for what the game is.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Galaxy stripped Mario of everything in order to make the level design go sicko mode. Sunshine dialed back the level design in order to make Mario's movement go sicko mode.
Tears of the Kingdom designed itself so Link can go SICKO mode at any given moment, even in dungeons. Therefore the level design has to be dialed back so the player has that creative liberty.
sly shadow
there's a different between dialled back and completely removed tho
at least on my part I'm not really asking for traditional dungeons, I'm just asking for good dungeons
sturdy flint
Oh for sure. I've tried not to make it sound like I refute that. Good design is definitely important. I honestly think DW is wrong here and Euan is right lol. I really don't think BotW or TotK game design allows for the Zelda dungeons to be designed traditionally.
I think the dungeon I've played has some good bones, and I can forgive all its flaws personally due to its position in the order I've done the dungeons, but I don't think it stands alone as a good dungeon overall lol. Like on a point scale I'd give it a 2.5/5 middle of the road as neither underwhelming or impressing.
I still think mini-bosses and keys would work within the context of these dungeons though. Those aren't Zelda exclusive they're just general "dungeon" elements that I miss a lot. Boss keys especially.
sturdy flint
There is no reason the dungeons *have* to have progression open ended just becau...
But I want to stress that this is completely inaccurate. I cannot support this opinion. I already get annoyed enough that I cannot use my tools in shrines the way I want. If they did that in the dungeons I'd get over it but I'd still be very annoyed. The game's sole focus is player liberty. If you take that away you've REALLY got to compensate somehow. The shrines are manageable because they are short, and offer all the material solutions you need. Dungeons on the size and scale of a dungeon we would expect from this game shouldn't limit your toolkit. Otherwise what's the point of having a cool collection of materials? Just for open world roaming? Heck no.
sly shadow
Shrines don't limit you that much
I think maybe that's just a problem of mindset
just because the open world is about freedom and stuff doesn't mean the whole game has to be that way
shrines being more focused on puzzles works well and unless you're actively looking for ways to avoid the puzzle, it doesn't break the game's flow or anything
you can't use zonai devices in shrines - so what? you can use them literally everywhere else. I think this restriction has only ever come up for me once, and there were still other ways to solve the puzzle aside from the intended one
All the ideas that a good dungeon would need are already there in the game, they're just all segmented
Just put them together
BotW had shrines where you'd be locked in a room until you defeated a mini-boss
TotK has shrines where multiple steps are needed to finish a puzzle
etc
for me it's not necessarily about structure, but content
I understand that dungeons can't be entirely linear because that wouldn't work, but you can still have the X-number of things to do approach while having each one be interesting
sturdy flint
I mean... Idk how much you're using your Zonai devices but removing them from Link's options is a pretty huge deal lol.
sly shadow
(I'm not really debating your points because we pretty much agree, I'm just kinda working through my own thoughts ig)
sturdy flint
But I understand what you mean it's not THAT limiting. But still that limitation forces the player to engage with the set puzzle pieces right?
In dungeons I didn't have to engage with any of their designs lol
I just dropped whatever Zonai device I wanted.
It's a totally different environment.
sly shadow
I mean I use zonai devices whenever it's useful, but I'm not constantly going out my way to find reasons to use them
"oh I need to cross a field? better build a car!"
nothing like that
I think though that a restriction like that isn't necessarily removing a core part of the game
sturdy flint
Do you have your ability wheel filled yet?
sturdy flint
I think with ||Autobuild|| it brings a different level of engagement with traversal. Building is definitely slow and figuring out how a machine will work is fun and rewarding. Now you need to get from Point A to Point B and ||Autobuild|| suddenly becomes extremely useful since you waste no time just plopping it down in front of you.
I think it plays a bigger role than surface level, since 99% of this game is movement.
sly shadow
yeah but even then it's kinda situational
it's just as easy to like...get on a horse
for me I mostly use it as a time-saver, which is...what it is
and even then zonai devices aren't really that prominent of a thing unless the game pushes it on you, for shrines or koroks or whatever
sturdy flint
Understandable. And hey, not everyone wants to engage with the mechanics at every opportunity. I still think it's a hefty fine for shrines to remove the Zonai options. Although you're valid in the way you think abotu it too. The beauty of the game being the way it is
sly shadow
so they're interesting and cool and fun, but I don't think limiting what Link can do in certain areas is that detrimental
you just get to focus on a different facet of the game for a bit. I have an entire open world to play with zonai devices and do the whole player freedom thing. I'm in a dungeon now, so I'd like something that's maybe more structured, you know?
You can have multiple things on your plate at once
sturdy flint
You can but you can't have multiple things on your plate at once without those things mixing. And sometimes the mixture is good, but in most cases it isn't. It's a risk trying to get a Thanksgiving dinner out of all the mechanics available.
You also bring up an interesting thought
Because I have the exact opposite thought from you
When I think of TotK dungeon I want to experiment with all the toys the game gave me to progress. I don't want structure in fact it would be a lesser experience for me if the dungeon WAS structured in a way my toys didn't work or didn't help.
It's far more engaging to use the tools I have available to approach it however I want. I don't want the game to put me down a path to the end, I just want it to present a good playground for me.
And I think this hits that all-to-familiar wall of "not every player will like this" and the developers did the best they could.
sly shadow
bear in mind "structured" doesn't necessarily mean "linear"
sturdy flint
Of course! But structured does mean the game demands I engage with its design and I don't want to do that lol
I.E. you're given a room with materials in it to progress, use those materials.
I say nah I'm going to build a rocket boosted sled to just get up to the ledge I need instead
That make sense?
sly shadow
well, is it bad if it demands your engagement with a certain element if that element is fun to engage with?
You only notice you're not having fun when you stop having fun, you know
lone junco
I think you can have a very structured game in an open world game design, we just have to get past this new modern idea of every game needing to be bigger and bigger.
sly shadow
which sounds obvious to say but like
you probably don't notice when a shrine is sub-par or whatever
because they're otherwise fairly fun
sturdy flint
well, is it bad if it demands your engagement with a certain element if that ele...
Definitely!
sly shadow
I think it's also important to distinguish between not wanting something to be taken away and the resulting gameplay being bad
like yeah maybe if I can't ascend out of a boss room that kinda sucks, but the boss is still fun, so oh well
I guess I'll just have fun doing this part of the game rn
sturdy flint
I think it's hard for me to get what I mean.
I definitely want the dungeons to have structure.
What I don't want is for that structure to come with less freedom to decide HOW I engage with the elements. It isn't that the engagement is/isn't fun it's that when you talk about structure you're talking about controlling the player to do what you want to do.
This is something developers have struggled with a lot. Skyward Sword is a great example because the dungeons are extremely well designed. It is very fun to engage with them. But it's an extremely limiting game and I don't have options as a player on how I want to progress. That's the kind of thing I mean
I want Zelda devs to do better across the board. But when developing things it always comes down to what gets cut, what stays, what changes. And I don't want player agency to be removed just so that the dungeons are all winners. It's okay to have some duds. As long as that player agency is still there
sly shadow
like I do think it's a thing of mindset too, not really preference
trust it, you know? if you're limiting [this thing] then I am trusting the game that whatever it offers me will be just as engaging
and if it's engaging enough, then you won't even think about how the other thing is gone
instead what happens is that the game is too afraid to take away my engaging open world stuff, so I instead get to use said engaging open world stuff in unengaging ways
The puzzles cease being puzzles and start just being the gameplay mechanics verbatim
lone junco
I know nobody cares about my input but I will share it, my main gripe with the dungeons is that they want you to engage with the content in a specific way but oftentimes that specific way is the least effecient way to do so. So I am incentivized to cheese the game by it's own mechanics.
sly shadow
paragliding out a window is not a puzzle, attaching a stick to a lever is not a puzzle, diving down a shaft is not a puzzle
these are just game mechanics
I'd rather it limit what I can do and make interesting stuff with what it lets me do, than have uninteresting stuff because it can't do anything more than that in case it limits player freedom
the first dungeon in the game doesn't have a single small key in it
I think that's just emblematic of the whole thing
because if you need to get a small key to open a door then that's limiting player freedom :((
sly shadow
that's not say it limiting me will sting initially btw
that initial "oh but i wanted to do that!"
yeah that'll suck
but if what it makes me do instead is just as good? fair enough
sturdy flint
Tbh I am a little burnt and betrayed by lots of games. I have a pretty negative outlook on games claiming they offer sandbox experiences because most of the time... they don't.
But you're right I love keys and mid-bosses. I love that Metroidvania feeling of being blocked by something that I have to engage with the environment to figure out. That is player limitation in a sense.
Mmk I'm feeling it Jet I get ya
sly shadow
at least for me I think a game that can offer me really good helpings of both is better than a game that does one well while the other suffers
but that's just meeee
sturdy flint
True. I think that's just what I'm used to these days. Not to keep using this dead horse as my punching bag but Skyward Sword is 100% that feeling. They min-max'd their video game by dropping player agency to an almost zero while ramping dungeon design, story, and presentation to its maxes.
I guess I am a pretty negative soul. I fully support the mentality of "can't have cake and eat it".
I really don't think BotW or TotK would be interesting with the dungeon designs of old. But maybe I'm a loser without an open mind.
sly shadow
I'll be honest I don't think they'd work with old dungeon designs either
if you lifted them straight from the old games and put them in totk, yeah they'd be bad
but I think you can mix the Divine Beast-style dungeon and the old style dungeon together fairly easily, because all the pieces are already there
sturdy flint
You know what I'll just say I'm open to it. If they can make it happen, great. But for now I'll just keep enjoying my player freedom. But Aonuma listen to me dad. If you can make Ancient Basin design work in a sandbox environment I'll buy any remaster you make full price.
sly shadow
and for some reason it just didn't
I think honestly that's my feeling with a lot of TotK
like it's good but mostly because of what botw did
with the story for example
like structuring it as "go to these four places" is fine as long as the story within those four places is satisfying
and it's not, at least not the rito one
but that's a completely different convo
not one I can fully participate in given I've seen less than half the story so far
ig overall it's about setting precedent and expectation, and the Rito quest set them quite low for me
lone junco
Maybe the solution is that they alternate in between Ocarina style games and BOTW style games? that way you have the best of both worlds.
sturdy flint
I'm still chuckling at all the people who did the glyphs out of order and got all upset. Meanwhile I'm chillin with Impa like 
sly shadow
I mean the game gives you a pretty clear order
but that's another case where I'm like
limiting that might not be totally bad?
make it so the next one appears when I do the last one or smth
sturdy flint
Oh yeah. You're given all the information but the least the devs could've done was disable each one until you've unlocked the prior lol
That isn't even that much of a sin considering how other quests require specific actions
sly shadow
yeah
I wish they laid them out better too
1/2/3/4 all seem in natural locations but then 5 is in Tabantha??? which I'm probably not gonna go to for another 15-20 hours lmao
and im not making a special trip there just for a cutscene
sturdy flint
Another feeling of that negativity in my brain that tells me the devs decided to not do that because they didn't want to infringe on player freedom. Almost all the choices they've made so far that I have heard complaints towards can basically be pointed at that
sly shadow
yeah
it just kinda feels like a lot of the game is diluted a bit
the player freedom stuff is good but like
eh
there are some things that just aren't as good as they could've been
I'll be dead honest I've not been looking too forward to doing the rest of the Regional quests after how meh the Rito one was lmao
not necessarily dreading but like
feels like I'm just doing it to tick the box rather than because i'm motivated to
also tulin sucks
not really related to anything I just dislike how he's handled
sturdy flint
Tulin hater 
uneven hazel
Whether I'm right or wrong
I think having BotW dungeons in BotW is better
Bc you'll have a significant chunk of people who have never played a zelda game before now
And experiencing BotW's freedom then suddenly being locked into a very designed environment wouldn't be very fun
lone junco
I didn't mind BOTW's dungeons, it was many Nintendo devs first time making an open world game so they had to ease into it as well.
I still have yet to fully formulate my opinion on TOTK's design yet, I know I like it but I don't really have much opinions on it beyond that yet.
sly shadow
And experiencing BotW's freedom then suddenly being locked into a very designed ...
That's a good point but one that I think could be solved or at least mitigated by blending the two styles rather than simply going for one or the other
lone junco
If they are going to do that I hope we don't see a Skyrim situation.
Where most of the dungeons feel copy and pasted.
sly shadow
after doing a bunch of islands and the depths and kakariko and hateno and side quests and stables and koroks and towers and shrines
i'm finally gonna do the second of the regional quests :))
vague path
I've done 100+ shrines so I'm being more slow with story progress but I have enjoyed the story a little bit more than BOTW so far in a few key areas
Won't say how for spoilers and just because I don't have a full picture of the story
But I would say it has more "flavor" overall I suppose
however you wish to interpret that
lone junco
I wonder if the crafting mechanic will increase or decrease this games replayability in comparison to BOTW.
placid flume
TGA this year is just gonna be 2017 all over again lol
lone junco
Unless Starfield or Spider-Man are truly spectacular this year is going to make 2017 look like a "close fight" by comparison.
placid flume
Spiderman 2 is prolly the closest contender to me
cyan copper
Omg
The Hudson Signs are actually relevant to the 100%
I was wondering why the more I talked to him, the more the sign broke
south mural
The Hudson Signs are actually relevant to the 100%
bruh
south mural
Just do the ones that have some sort of indent/support already built on them
sly shadow
goron quest is better than rito quest but still not outstanding
just actually good
me when i write characters
sturdy flint
I got to Goron City myself
||What did they do to my scared shy Yunobo 😭 ||
vague path
I got to Goron City myself
||What did they do to my scared shy Yunobo 😭 ||
IKR that was such a surprise lmao
sly shadow
ok
i wanna know if anyone else found this yet
but I feel like one of the shrines is misplaced lmao
like it takes you to the wrong shrine
there's one ||in a cave by the Hateno Ancient Tech Lab. it's literally just sat in a cave, nothing blocking it, no challenge to overcome, yet it's one of the Rauru's Blessings ones?
but then there's another trial nearby on a sky island that has you doing one of those stone/seed things, and once you do that it still takes you to a normal shrine, when iirc they usually take you to Blessings?||
lone junco
Probably just an oversight.
I did it, I just never noticed it was like that until you brought it up.
uneven hazel
wait
WAIT
is that sword?
It IS
oh my god
||When you repair the big Goddess Statue you get the Goddess Sword from SS||
which uh
I guess must be a copy?
bc the original became ||the Master Sword||
sly shadow
i never figured out how to do that quest lmao
still atlas
The springs will tell you
south mural
there's one ||in a cave by the Hateno Ancient Tech Lab. it's literally just sat ...
||there’s a mini quest linked to the hateno shrine LMAO, you need Robbie to return to the tech lab and to demonstrate the shiekah sensor they put the shrine down there for it||
split rover
||Reunited and it feels so good.
Can I just say I'm glad that if you're unable to draw it out you don't just drop dead like in BotW.||
south mural
And the classic jingle too
vernal oracle
this is the stupidest way i solved a puzzle and so gald it worked
minor location spoilers
||https://twitter.com/Timesez/status/1662352131473698816 ||
mild oasis
just beat the game, 105 hours, all shines and lightroots. i got really lucky in the order i got the memories/did the dungeons/got the master sword as i had one thing flow seamlessly into the next. i know that getting them out of order can be weird but im so glad i got lucky as it told the story in the best way possible. i would legit use my path as a guide for "what is the msot optimal route to do everything." too bad i dont remember.
all i can think of is, how do they top this? its not like they're gonna give us ultrahand again in the next one. sure there's other things about the game they could change and improve like dungeon and story but man. this game was fucking insane
vernal oracle
just beat the game, 105 hours, all shines and lightroots. i got really lucky in ...
Hero's Path is great for that, 105 hours is enough to store within it.
also glad you enjoyed it
mild oasis
i would not be able to decipher it from hero's path lmao
south mural
Oh my god all shrines and everything
apparently doing everything doesn’t get you max hearts and max stamina at the same time is that true
uneven hazel
it was true in BotW
but I think there are ||more Shrines|| and some other ways to earn Hearts so perhaps it balances out
south mural
There’s also more hearts
That being said you do get at least 2 heart containers from non-temple stuff
mild oasis
yes by the end I was short three heart containers that I can only assume come from side adventures (because I got one from one of those)
split rover
And max stamina. It was funny watching him get Samus nerfed afterwards lol.
sturdy flint
Better reason than Samus nerf too which made me mad lmao. Link gets consumed but Samus… gets pushed into a wall? Cannot use her suit’s power until authorized? Gets yellow jello on her suit?
lone junco
Wall >>>> FTL space bounty hunter come on you know this, wall is the strongest character in the series.
naive imp
Alright. Who was supposed to tell me that ||THE FLIPPING DUNGEON BOSSES|| spawn in the depths? I fought ||Colgera|| and won... In the dark.
OH NOOOO BLOOD MOON
sly shadow
ioh that's actually pretty cool :O
also just did the zora quest 
so far, ranked in terms of the overall quest (incl. dungeon + boss)
Goron > Rito > Zora
the gap between goron and rito is bigger than the gap between rito and zora tho
naive imp
Got the big horse
still atlas
Alright. Who was supposed to tell me that ||THE FLIPPING DUNGEON BOSSES|| spawn ...
It's really really cool
||Doing it in the dark is the best||
azure needle
So after the final boss: ||anyone else also couldn't see zelda when diving? I'm kinda stuck||
still atlas
What?
sly shadow
my dumb brain clicking the spoiler without reading "So after the final boss" lmao
azure needle
||It says you have to dive after zelda and in a video i saw a glowing spot in front of you falling. However there was nothing for me. I kept getting reset to the beginning||
well save I had to reset and apparently I now get to do everything from the very beginning
sly shadow
thinking I'm gonna take a break from main quests and hunt some of those memories and ||Kohga|| now I'm gonna be in Gerudo
on that: is there a specific number of the memories you should do before the Regional Phenomena quest is over? By that I mean, I don't want to do them all of it's going to give away later parts of the story.
mild oasis
only spoilers if you haven't done the goron area quest
sly shadow
they should have made it an Armour Preset button instead of a Map button
so if you like wearing specific pieces of armour you can set each body part to have a preset piece
then you can just press the button to equip those, rather than having to go into the menu
helps if you just put a piece of armour on for a moment and aren't going to keep it on (see: Zora, Froggy, Gloom)
or you can have like up to three presets
and press the button, it pulls up a list like the Autobuild menu, pick one
oh well
guess it's a Map button
mild oasis
uneven hazel
thinking I'm gonna take a break from main quests and hunt some of those memories...
There is a particular character who is mentioned whose importance in the main quest comes up after the four regional areas
I believe she only appears in one
maybe 3?
or rather the third tear as opposed to the third memory
sly shadow
oh yeah I've done I think the first four so far
maybe five
five
all the ones up to and including ||all the moldugas are killed||
uneven hazel
should be fine then I think
sturdy flint
I made it to the Eldin Region dungeon
And I've never felt annoyed at this game before now lol
The entire mechanic ||involving Yunobo's charge while in minecarts is just annoying. I have some captures of him just BOUNCING AWAY from the things I need him to hit instead of hitting them so I have to fully reset.|| It's frustrating to do the same dumb puzzle over and over because of this wonky thing.
Also ||Yunobo's such a big lad that more often than not he obstructs your vision while IN the minecart. This severely limits reaction time to stuff going on around you.||
So far I love the layout and the design and the stuff in the dungeon. Mechanics wise...... mmmmmmmmmh. I'm gonna have to let them stew a bit more.
uneven hazel
yeah the minecarts can be unfun
sly shadow
I've never had the first problem but the second one is definitely an issue
sly shadow
honestly most of the sage's abilities suck real bad compared to the Champions abilities
tulin's is good
uneven hazel
I keep Tulin on and the others off
azure needle
i often struggle to use them in action
uneven hazel
this ties into something else I was thinking about actually
Great Plateau > Great Sky Island
Sky Island is too long and is too big
because they have to take longer to teach you about each new ability
because each new ability isn't... intuitive
sly shadow
hmm I half agree
uneven hazel
they're all more complex than BotW's
sly shadow
I don't think it's too big but maybe a little long
uneven hazel
because BotW's were all so simple and intuitive to use
the Champion abilities are the same
simple to understand and use
sly shadow
It is difficult to back-track through tho
uneven hazel
so the sequel's had to be more complicated
sturdy flint
Not sure I like either area more over the other
They both do what they are intended to do: Tutorial the player.
uneven hazel
sure
sturdy flint
I will say that GP didn't seem shorter 🤔
uneven hazel
but I felt so comfortable with BotW's that I could experiment on the Plateau after I'd got them all
sturdy flint
I spent more time on GP when I first played compared to GSI.
uneven hazel
by the time I got to the fourth Sky Island Shrine I was getting bored
I just wanted off
sly shadow
actually ngl I remember a few times on the Great Sky Island it to be over lmao
sly shadow
I think BotW did it better because it had the whole like
entirely new gameplay format
thing going on
uneven hazel
it's about how the time feels I guess
sturdy flint
Traversal in the sky SUCKS without the paraglider so therefore getting to the paraglider ASAP was my #1 priority after the novelty of "new Zelda" wore off.
This took about 10 hours for me.
sly shadow
you spent a lot of time just kinda vibing and walking around and fighting monsters on the Great Plateau
sturdy flint
I even dove into a chasm without the paraglider out of curiosity lmao
sly shadow
by the second shrine on GSI I was like
man this is cool but when do I get to go the ground?
uneven hazel
aye the Sky Island feels a bit clunky compared to GP
I've also been thinking about how TotK lives and dies on its comparisons to BotW
Does anyone have an opinion on the game that doesn't include a comparison to botW
sturdy flint
I honestly don't feel comfortable comparing personally, but that's how the conversations go.
TotK jsut doesn't feel like BotW anymore.
At first it did
sly shadow
For me a lot
A LOT
of what I like about TotK is also exactly the same things I liked about BotW
rarely does any of the new stuff TotK do match the stuff BotW did for me
sturdy flint
But now my entire muscle memory is completely different.
azure needle
TotK in general feels kinda grindier? I didn't play BotW much beyond the story but I want to eventually do 100% for TotK and dear lord it feels grindy. And my game accidentally updated to 1.1.2 so that takes away the easy way around that
uneven hazel
Like I don't like how weapons feel weaker
weaker
I like that the approach to dungeons is more varied
more varied
sly shadow
TotK jsut doesn't feel like BotW anymore.
for me it feels like BotW with a few new doodads slapped on
uneven hazel
the abilities are less intuitive
sturdy flint
Idk
I don't think I can play BotW with the same mentality. Maybe I'm wrong though
After I finish TotK I'll revisit BotW and see how it feels.
I honestly htink I'll be very disappointed.
But I could be wrong.
uneven hazel
It's not a criticism of a person or a game or anything
sturdy flint
And all of that is the biggest selling for it.
uneven hazel
just interesting
sly shadow
I think you'll be surprised how similar the games are
aside from the obvious stuff like different abilities and slightly different enemies
sturdy flint
I think besides being a little clunky they work wonders.
uneven hazel
I'm sure there are things I find better than BotW
sly shadow
they are very similar games
sturdy flint
And Iv'e already seen hours of clips of funny stuff.
You and I are saying the opposite things again lol
I really think the veins of TotK run a compeltely different direction.
Sure the heart is the same
uneven hazel
I can see arguments for both of them
sturdy flint
But the flow is vastly different
sly shadow
I think how you play them might be different but the actual parts that make up the games are pretty much the same
especially design philosophy
and like somewhat that's fine right
expected
it is a sequel
sturdy flint
This is an echo chamber dead horse
uneven hazel
alright here's a new question then
sturdy flint
I don't need to hear that again because I'm not arguing it lol
uneven hazel
for you two to disagree about
sly shadow
but I don't think this game could stand on its own
uneven hazel
Thingmy mentioned earlier about where Zelda goes from here
sturdy flint
Keep saying how much they're the same I get it, but I'm telling you there's tangible reasons that the games feel different and I will not feel BotW the same as I feel TotK.
uneven hazel
my natural instinct is that the next Zelda game has to be back in the traditional style
sly shadow
traditional
I know it won't be
but for the sake of the story alone
traditional, any day
uneven hazel
bc like
sturdy flint
I personally dream of another LA Remake for any of the GB titles that are clunky and outdated.
uneven hazel
these aren't Zelda games
in the traditional sense
and I don't think it would make sense for them to just ditch that original design
sturdy flint
For those who completed story does it feel like a trilogy is in the cards?
That was the rumor mill for a while
uneven hazel
it already is a trilogy
sly shadow
someone I was talking to a while back said this game has a pretty definitive close
shut up
sturdy flint
If you're counting SS I will actually slap you lol
uneven hazel
It's worse
sly shadow
no he's counting AoC
uneven hazel
I'm counting AoC
lmao
anyway
for all intents and purposes the game's story is completely stand alone from BotW
sturdy flint
I would've said choice words but
uneven hazel
so no it doesn't really
sly shadow
even if a trilogy was in the cards
they couldn't
because like
what else are they gonna do
lean on BotW again??
uneven hazel
well exactly
mild oasis
new villain
sly shadow
add slightly different abilities again?
uneven hazel
right
sly shadow
refresh the world again?
sturdy flint
Slightly??
uneven hazel
and make them even more contrived
mild oasis
depths 2
sturdy flint
lol
uneven hazel
fine they get away with it this time but like
sturdy flint
Mmk
uneven hazel
the depths is empty
mild oasis
another layer underneath
uneven hazel
it's empty
sly shadow
not in terms of Recall and Ascend and Fuse
sly shadow
but Ultrahand is just fancy Magnesis
mild oasis
weapons, arenas, mines
uneven hazel
but both get away with it because they're new
mild oasis
zonaite
sly shadow
and the Sage abilities feels like lesser versions, as said
sturdy flint
Depths is actually one of the best parts lmao
sly shadow
Depths is good for about 20 minutes
sturdy flint
Every time I go down there I find myself exploring around for hours.
It is pretty barren but that's the point. It makes discovery feel a lot better.
mild oasis
i completed all the lightroots and compared to the overword its empty but it's still got plenty to explore and you arent supposed to be there the whole time anyways
uneven hazel
also it just
sturdy flint
Each time you come across something out of the darkness it's great.
uneven hazel
never gets explained
there's this whole second map down there and
no one ever mentions why?
sturdy flint
It's it Upheavel?
sly shadow
tbf that's one of the things I don't really need explaining
sturdy flint
Upheaval*
sturdy flint
Upheaval is the buzzword right now
mild oasis
sky was lacking though. more difficult than advertised to travel up/between them and every archipelago is literally the same
uneven hazel
sure the upheaval explains the chasms and caves and stuff
but surely it didn't create the depths
uneven hazel
they advertised the sky bc they wanted to hide the depths
uneven hazel
I find a lot of the story lacking tbh
sly shadow
story in this game sucks
mild oasis
but instead we got the same thing copy/pasted over every tower
uneven hazel
The depths, the sky, the Zonai,
mild oasis
i enjoyed the story a lot
uneven hazel
they're all big parts of the game and just don't get explained lmao
sturdy flint
I have no opinion on the story so far.
sly shadow
I genuinely don't know how they keep repeating the same mistakes over and over
each of the main quests play out the exact same with the exact errors
it's boring
I'm literally just doing them to tick the box
uneven hazel
I prefer BotW's story
sly shadow
the zonai suck
uneven hazel
I think I'm set on that atm
sly shadow
can we talk about the zonai
the zonai genuinely feel like repurposed Sheikah concept art from botw
sturdy flint
Haven't finished the game so Idk anything about them
uneven hazel
also ||where the fuck do they go||
sly shadow
There's like one interesting boss fight with the Flux Construct
uneven hazel
like the story ends with ||everyone dying lmao|| but it never mentions the race outside of that?
sturdy flint
I think I'll bounce out now. Euan and Jet are feeding off each other's negativity and tbh I only came to complain about some mechanics
uneven hazel
sorry I didn't mean to complain lmao
sly shadow
we're not feeding off each other's negativity we just have similar issues
sturdy flint
I really don't think this game is as rough or boring as it is being made to sound from you two.
uneven hazel
I think the game generally is better than BotW
sturdy flint
But opinions be opions. I just can't say much since i haven't finished.
uneven hazel
and I enjoyed it
sly shadow
yeah same
uneven hazel
hey deemo can I run a question by you before you go
sturdy flint
Sure
uneven hazel
how much of the story have you seen?
sly shadow
(sorry didn't mean to get so negative tho)
sturdy flint
None
sly shadow
None???
uneven hazel
k I cannot run the question past you then lmao
sturdy flint
I'm in Eldin. I did Hebra. I saw the first Tear
uneven hazel
the first tear
sly shadow
ah
uneven hazel
hmm
sturdy flint
That feels like none to me
I've done a lot of exploring and side questing. This game is big and its side quests are infinitely better than naything BotW had
I will say the Great Fairy chain is annoying though
I honestly don't know why they did that
sturdy flint
You have to track down the Troupe members
The flute player is at Highland stable in Faron
You're welcome
I'll help everyone with it as I go
It's the worst quest so far.
sly shadow
idk I kinda saw what it was gonna be after finding the first Great Fairy and kinda dipped
didn't upgrade gear much in botw anyway so
sturdy flint
Unlocking something so important behind such busy work is very bleh
uneven hazel
right ok so you've met Rauru and Sonia
sturdy flint
Yeah I know them
uneven hazel
hmm ok I probably could ask you the question but I'll wait until you've see the second cutscene just to make sure
Jet how much of the story have you seen?
mild oasis
didn't upgrade gear much in botw anyway so
you kinda need to if you wanna survive more than one silver bokoblin arrow
sturdy flint
didn't upgrade gear much in botw anyway so
Getting the set bonuses is a super good thing. I guess it doesn't matter much if you don't care about it but I like having those bonuses.
Also Silver enemies keep one shotting me even with 1-star gear and defense elixers
It's messed up
So upgradign is my next option
mild oasis
btw since i went the whole game w/o knowing this
uneven hazel
just don't get hit smh
mild oasis
you can actually get your hylian hood placed down like in the promo art
if you wanna know i'll tell you how
sturdy flint
Anyways I'll actually go now
uneven hazel
oh here's another cool fact
sly shadow
anyway ig what I meant was like i'm in no rush to do it
i'll do it eventually but like
meh
mild oasis
you can hold one by pressing zl
actually this is exactly why two handed weapons feel useless early game
sturdy flint
It still shocks me to hear people say the games are basically the same though
uneven hazel
When it's raining the waterfalls on sky islands get longer
sturdy flint
I'm truly stunned that the abilities and mechanics aren't enough to differentiate or make them stand apart.
But oh well
sly shadow
I mean in terms of gameplay they kinda are
sturdy flint
I guess I'm a different perspective
sly shadow
if you only consider the new stuff then sure but
at least my approach and overall experience as been the same
mild oasis
last night after i beat the game i was wondering "how will they do another zelda in that style that adds as much as this one does?"
which led me to the conclusion that maybe the next zelda ought to be a traditional style
uneven hazel
saying things I said 5 minutes ago but with a cooler voice
they won't just ditch the original Zelda style right
mild oasis
i think they can make another one better than this (improve the story and areas) but they cannot recreate the jump from ss to botw to totk ever again
theres no way the next game hits as hard
uneven hazel
someone I follow on Twitter was talking a bit ago about how cinematic Twilight Princess is
I guess I would be pretty stoked for something like that again
sly shadow
I don't think they can improve the story much
uneven hazel
I mean
sly shadow
the same sort of flaws it has are the same sort of ones botw had
uneven hazel
they could pay it some fucking attention lmao
sly shadow
so it feels like a restriction of the game's format ig
uneven hazel
and stop having it exist in the past
uneven hazel
have a BotW game
mild oasis
this dumbass from two months ago had no idea that the depths would be in this game
uneven hazel
with the story happening now!
mild oasis
with the story happening now!
exactly what i was gonna say
i'd like the story to actually happen
sly shadow
better character arcs, for example
have an active story rather than setting all the interesting stuff a billion years ago
uneven hazel
I get why they do them through memories
bc it means you can keep the open world thing
sly shadow
but like I don't think it being set in the past is the story's biggest problem
at least for me
sly shadow
I prefer BotW's story to TotK's
especially the memory
namely because Link was actually like
relevant to them
the memories in TotK feel like a side story
||which is weird considering that's where the title character is||
but oh well
should I spoiler tag that
I will just in case
uneven hazel
and I was quite excited to have a BotW style game with a story happening as you play
which uh
yea
literally none of the story happens in the present day
you activate the opening cutscene
uneven hazel
and it immediately leads to the final boss
sly shadow
what a laugh
sly shadow
I mean ig there's the regional stuff but like
I'll talk about them another day
maybe never
I have too much negativity surrounding them
like too much negativity for me lmao
naive imp
but did you get shiny horse
Yes
still atlas
One reason why TotK feels really different for me is that I actually know how to play the game now compared to six years ago
south mural
Oh interesting
Son not sure what’s the trigger but I’m guessing either after you ||discover Zelda is an imposter|| or you beat the game once
||zelda doesn’t narrate whenever a blood moon comes up again||
It’s just the cutscene
mild oasis
One reason why TotK feels really different for me is that I actually know how to...
and yet there's still just as much of a knowledge gap now
placid flume
I was fighting a bunch of silver bokoblins in a thunderstorm
And i was so close to getting my ass kicked cuz i couldnt put on any shields (all of them are metal)
So i thought as a last ditch effort to take them all out was with a metal boomerang
The boomerang got struck by lightning and kill all of the enemies
sly shadow
I found all the geoglyphs today
there's still some memories missing so...ig they're gonna just be part of the main story? idk
also man how do I go from having like 50 zonaite just sitting in my inventory to having 0 and not being able to find any
sly shadow
yeah but like
whenever I go down there I find barely any
sometimes I find like one or two of the big ones but
idk
I need to use stamps more I think
uneven hazel
The memories tab isn't just memories
it's the whole game's cutscenes
so like the opening cutscene is there
sly shadow
ohh ok
also ||does the master sword break? what happens if you fuse items to it - does the fused time just break after a while? does it still have the cooldown mechanic like in botw?||
uneven hazel
It's the same as BotW
If something is fused to it when it breaks you lose that item too
The ||cooldown|| is the same iirc
lone junco
finally the link worked.
Anyway, can someone help me figure out what Jaffe's issue is here? I have a PS5 and this still looks fine too me.
mild oasis
the only "issue" is the repeating water texture
sturdy flint
https://twitter.com/davidscottjaffe/status/1656914015237574657
He hates the grafix
David Jaffe is one of those guys that loves saying "I ENCOURAGE BETTER GAMEPLAY OVER VISUALS 100%"
Then immediately turns around and says that "disgusting looking visuals like this distract from the game" as if that matters at all
There are some pretty crappy textures in TotK tbh. I agree with him. But he's been using his platform tearing down TotK's sub-par visuals as if its his primary job.
As if God of War doesnt' have crappy textures (it does) because you can't make a perfect game with current industry timeframes.
placid flume
Then immediately turns around and says that "disgusting looking visuals like thi...
no cap, these are the same criticisms James Rolfe from the Angry Video game Nerd said
said the graphics look unfinished and then compared it to Red Dead 2 💀