GU10 Spotlight recommendations

[soft flicker]

I have freshly rewired my house and part of this is the whole of downstairs is now spotlights. I want to get the same spotlights everywhere and was wondering which ones people would recommend? I was thinking matter based. I have two Phillips wiz colour smart led WiFi bulbs but these will get moved to the porch for uniformity throughout. Any suggestions or recommendations welcome

[crystal moth]

Hi, Matter over WiFi? Not recommended due to the high number of devices. Look for Thread or ZigBee devices. I will use ZigBee everywhere I can

[soft flicker]

Yes I was just reading this. I think I’ll do zigbee instead. Any recommendations on gu10s for this?

It will be 25 I need

[minor drum]

You should probably include your country when asking something like this as recommendations may differ.
That said... an option in a bunch of countries is the Ikea stuff. they used to be zigbee but the newer stuff is matter over thread BUT a bunch of the stuff can actually be set to zigbee mode still its just undocumented. I believe the KAJPLATS bulbs have the zigbee mode. There is a reddit thread HERE that discusses it. 12 power cycles seems to put them in zigbee mode.
You could get 1 to test and if its all good then get a bunch more if it works out.

[soft flicker]

Sorry I’m in the UK!

Thank you I’ll look at them

Is matter over thread viable or not?

[minor drum]

I would not use it personally...

I am sure people get it working but... For a bunch of people it causes no end of trouble.

[soft flicker]

I currently don’t have anything zigbee based so I will need to get a dongle and a bulb to do some testing with it. I’d rather do it right first time

[minor drum]

For a coordinator I recomend the ZBT-2.

Depending on your home layout you may need to think about adding some other devices to build out the mesh.

In general hard wired devices such as smartplugs and bulbs act as routers whereas battery powered devices such as random sensors are just "end devices"
routers relay signals and help build out the mesh.
Ideally if you have the coordinator fairly central then you may be okay. however if you have problem with signal in places you may need to help widen the mesh with some stuff inbetween.

[soft flicker]

Ok so get the zbt2 and then see how I get on ?

It should be pretty central

[minor drum]

Yeah, Can grab a zbt-2 and an ilea bulb and have a play with it. then you can go from there.

[soft flicker]

My end plan is to have nfc stickers which change all the bulbs in the living room to a specific brightness when tapped so “evening cosy mode” or “guests brightness” type of thing

So this sounds like it is a good place to start

[minor drum]

I have a bunch of these to build out my mesh. they are the old range and are discontinued but looks like they still have some on "last chance" clearance.

[soft flicker]

Will the gu10s count to build my mesh?

[minor drum]

Getting some of those whilst you can might be something to consider in case you need random expansion somewhere or just want a smartplug for something.

[minor drum]

Yes, I beleive so. but they obviously have to be always powered.

[soft flicker]

Ohhh yeah, didn’t think of that lol

[minor drum]

If you cut power to them with a hard switch then you may inpact your mesh.

[soft flicker]

I have a few sandstrom smart plugs I need to check if they will work first.

One last thing, where would I plug my zbt2 in to? (Assuming it is the home assistant device, in my case a pi 5 running haos)

Edit - plug in near*

[minor drum]

You plug it into your HA server via usb.

[soft flicker]

Thank you so much

The ha is very central so I will order one now

[minor drum]

No worries, Zigbee has a little bit of a learning curve but its not too steep. once you get the idea of how stuff works then its pretty easy.

[minor drum]

FYI: Try and position it so it is at least 25cm away from any other 2.4ghz antennas. e.g. dont place it right next to a wifi AP (or router with wifi).

[soft flicker]

My router is downstairs but the ha assistant is in the middle of the house via a switch

Just ordered the zbt2 so thank you again.

[minor drum]

Awesome, Just one of those things people can over look sometimes.

[minor drum]

Cool, Good Luck with it. Report back if you have any other questions or issues.

[edgy niche]

Are you sure you don’t want to control the 25 lights with smart switches? Would be less stuff to buy and easier IMO to manage.

[soft flicker]

What are the benefits to that?

Basically i planned to have a few settings which mapped bulbs closer tot he tv more dimmed leaving back of the room lightter

[tribal sage]

Smart bulbs without smart switches can lead to people turning off the switch and taking bulbs offline...
Smart switches without smart bulbs still allow HA control via switch while letting people use the switch without killing the power to bulbs
If you have multiple switches and can wire the bulbs in groups to various switches, they can be dimmed via HA if bulbs and switches are dimmable. If not wired in groups you want, then smart bulbs will likely be your need, maybe with smart switches too so the bulbs don't lose power when someone hits the switch

[soft flicker]

do you have a link to one ?

[tribal sage]

I doubt the switches I have would work in the UK, but here is what I have:
https://inovelli.com/collections/inovelli-blue-series/products/zigbee-matter-blue-series-smart-2-1-on-off-dimmer-switch

I also have one of their mmwave presence sensing switches for the kitchen

[minor drum]

A common approach is to just put a cover over the switch and have a battery powered zigbee button on the front of the cover.
Depending on your wiring (and your ability/willingness to rewire mains) you could also put a detachable relay behind the switch.

[tribal sage]

I like the Shelley relays, allows the switch to still work if wired correctly while also being controllable via HA (and I am pretty sure they have a version that would work in the UK)

[minor drum]

Yeah, I have a bunch of shelly relays in the UK. However there are some variables about if they can be used or not.

[tribal sage]

I bought a two-pack, have one in kitchen controlled by lux sensor in above mentioned switch for the little light over sink while main room light is controlled by presence sensing of that switch... Allows anyone to turn on that sink light with the normal wall switch even if automation thinks it doesn't need to be on

[crystal moth]

Yes, I use a Sonoff behind a switch in the kitchen. It normally switches by the movement sensor, but it can be switched also by the physical switch. Very convenient 🙂

[minor drum]

Outside of needing to occasionally use the "Big Light" actual light switches never get used downstairs in my house. 🙂

[tribal sage]

I haven't touches my kitchen light switches since installing the two devices, so nice when carrying food and/or drink and no spare hand for the switch

[crystal moth]

Totally agree, light automations are the most used at home, and my family just remember HA when it fails 🤣

[soft flicker]

me and my dad just rewired the whole house

just catching up on some of these messages

[minor drum]

Do you have neutrals at light switches?

[soft flicker]

yes

live neutral earth

[minor drum]

I cannot see any neutrals in either of those photos.

[soft flicker]

i thought the blue was neutral

[minor drum]

its sleved brown

its a switched live

[soft flicker]

left image is the blue neutral with brown sleeve

just not on the whole wire only near the switch

[minor drum]

that is identifying it as switched live.

let me put it another way. if that was live and neutral wired to a switch then using the switch would connect them and at best trip the RCD/RCBO.

You do NOT have neutrals at those switches.

[soft flicker]

Ok, my dad did try to explain to me, he did the lighting and i did the sockets (hes an electronic engineer). I didn't quite understand the lighting

[minor drum]

So... the way its wired is the more erm... "Traditional way" its still allowed but it not really used that much anymore because people want neutrals at switches for smart stuff. sometimes its still used for some lights depending on various things.

Honestly (and I don't mean to be rude just honest) unless there is a specific reason to do this way (which there might be) then doing a rewire and using this method is a pretty big blunder...

[soft flicker]

Ill ask my dad why he did it this way, im not sure. I assumed it was how it is done. The electrician we got to sign it off was all happy with it

[minor drum]

But in any case...
You do NOT have neutrals at those switches.

There are "no-neutral relays" but they cause all sorts of problems and I don't recommend you try using them.

You could put relays behind the light fixtures instead but depending on your setup that is usually pretty tricky.

your best option is to put a cover over them and have a battery zigbee button on the front.

[minor drum]

For what it's worth. It looks well done. It is just an older methodology and its sometimes done by people that are older because "this is the way I have always done it".

[soft flicker]

Yeah, we used Wago's and was my dads first time using it. We also had a deadline for when the electrician was coming back so i guess took less time for my dad to learn a different way

I have all the pics if you wanted to have a look at anything else

[minor drum]

basically with this setup:
the light ring loops around the fixtures and then a loop goes down the switch for a switch live.

the newer method is that the light ring loops around the switches and a power signal then goes from the switch to the fixture.

the older method end up useing less cable which is why it became the standard in the WW2/post-WW2 era (during copper shortage). Then it never really changed until people started wanting smart stuff on their walls about 20-25 years ago. Then as that became more popular it became the default option in the last 10 years or so.

If you are not up to date on stuff and wired a lighting circuit years ago then you it is probably understandable not knowing.

Having stuff wired this way is a common enough issue that people have to work around. Its just a bit of a pain knowing that it was recently rewired and done this way.

I am trying not to sound like a dick about this. I hope I am not coming across too bad.

[soft flicker]

No, i dont mind at all. I wouldn't have ever known and assumed there was a neutral ngl

This makes my house safer for me and the mrs

Thank you for explaining it too.

[minor drum]

Other then being in the know about your stuff it doesnt really make much of a difference safety wise.

[soft flicker]

Well if i tried to do something with neutrals and didnt have one and wired it wrong or something

[minor drum]

you can just put a cover over the switch so nobody switches it off then put a battery powered button either on the cover or nearby.

[soft flicker]

Ok, the way i was going to do it was have a wall mounted ipad near the switch

[minor drum]

is there a plug socket nearby?

[soft flicker]

yeah

[minor drum]

Then you could run power to it from the plug. But I would still cover the switch because people will mess with it (usually accidentally through ignorance).

the switch doesnt work let me try switching it 20 times "OMG why is the bulb flashing" you come in and find everything reset and in pairing mode.

[soft flicker]

Yeah, before i found out about the smart switches (today) i was just thinking that im not too fussed if it was just turned on/off at switch and had an nfc sticker for dimming settings

[minor drum]

then you have to explain to someone that you now need to reconfigure the lights and then they say "well that's just stupid why cant you have a normal switch"

[soft flicker]

Oh i see

Might actually try that

[minor drum]

something like this is a good option.

I have this setup in the garage to do a similar thing.

There are a few options.

[soft flicker]

3D printed?

[minor drum]

both are 3d printed yeah.

[soft flicker]

We haven't had any money due to spending it all on wiring and parts for the rewire so i dont have much on my home assistant yet but looking forward to making it all whilst i work from home. I can't wait to have the cool smart house. Need to buy 3D printer too... but first i need to buy the bulbs for the spots downstairs

Thanks for all the help, the ZBT 2 is coming in the next couple of hours too.

[minor drum]

In the short term. Just putting a bit of tape over the switch stops most accidental uses.

Or you can take the switch off, bypass it by putting the connects in to a wago then put the switch back on. Then people can mess with it all they like but it will not do anything... 😛

[soft flicker]

Ok thank you king

[minor drum]

Happy to Help, Good Luck. Feel free to tag me here if you have any other questions.

[soft flicker]

How about unrelated NVR questions

[minor drum]

You can give it a shot but I might tell you to post a new thread depending on what it is. 😛

[soft flicker]

Oh i just got my second camera setup inside and was thinking about NVRs and what i could do with it

[minor drum]

If you have the setup to run it on then Frigate (GitHub) is what you want. 🙂

[soft flicker]

I was looking at frigate when i moved in. Need to look at min reqs and what parts i have lying around

i have an Nvidia 2080 just led around

Just looked at the servers and theyre a bit out of my pricing atm.

[minor drum]

huh? its opensource, roll your own.

[soft flicker]

Would it work on my Pi5 which i run HA on?

Or is raspberry pi too low spec

[minor drum]

I wouldnt run it on that.

[soft flicker]

I have a spare pi 4 i could try

[minor drum]

you mentioned you have a 2080 laying around, What else do you have knocking about?

[soft flicker]

i have a case, but i think it would need motherboard, ram, ssd/hdd, cpu

[minor drum]

An X86_64 server is gunna be a better option.

[minor drum]

The 2080 will be great for encoding and object detection. Also you probably want a system you can add some storage drives to anyway.
you dont need anything super powerful though.

[soft flicker]

Is running motionEye on the HA worth it or not really?

Oh ignore me, i didnt read the documentation properly

[minor drum]

I don't know too much about it really. I did install it once but it was a pain... I think most people end up on Frigate anyway.

[soft flicker]

@minor drum Just got some time on BH Monday and looking at the ZBT-2, would this be considered my Zigbee Hub? So if i get say, a motion sensor in the porch, i would be able to use that straight away and only have to purchase the sensor?

[minor drum]

Yes although the proper name would be "Coordinator" not "Hub". As long as the porch is within range of the coordinator then It would work just fine. If there is a distance between them it may need other (hardwired) devices to act as routers in between. (e.g. a smartplug) to act as a relay.
Actual range can depend on various things. Give it a try and if you have some issues then can always get something in between to help build the mesh out.

[soft flicker]

Thank you!