supple juniper
I'm trying to get setup with Matter over Thread, but I'm not sure what I'm missing here.
I have a Home Assistant Connect ZBT-1, and am running Open Thread Border Router on my HA instance. But when I try to adopt a Matter over Thread device the app just tells me "Your device requires a Thread border router". I thought HA is my thread border router though, the integration for it is setup and the addon is running so I'm really not sure what I'd be missing here.
supple juniper
guess I should also add, I have non-Thread Matter devices setup with no issues using the Matter Server addon and Matter integrations, not sure if that might be relevant or what other information I should give that would help
these are my home assistant versions if they'll help as well
supple juniper
I was able to find troubleshooting steps to manually sync the Thread credentials, but even after doing that its still not working. It keeps trying to use this other Thread network that I don't have listed in my phones settings
last year I had purchased an Aqara door lock that had Matter over Thread, but was never able to get that working either so I ended up returning it. I think something with that is still stuck in my HA or phone, but I'm really not sure how to clear it out nothing in the settings UI for Thread is showing it
supple juniper
well I found this, reset Google Play Services on my phone and after getting logged back in I have a new problem. I can't add Matter devices at all through HA anymore. Trying to add one just gives me this "Matter is currently unavailable" message when I try it
supple juniper
I really thought Matter and Thread were supposed to "fix" the smart home ecosystems by making things just work. This is more difficult and broken than any proprietary smart home ecosystem I've ever used
I found another forum thread talking about this new issue I'm running into, and the "solution" given is to use a thing that also doesn't work, awesome
https://community.home-assistant.io/t/adding-matter-device-on-yellow-gives-matter-is-currently-unavailable-error/556907/3
Like I know it can't be the case, but it really feels like Matter/Thread is entirely untested and broken in HA. Have I just gotten incredibly unlucky and ran into every possible bug with it?
near temple
Thread/Matter is still very new with lots of bugs to work out. I have about 70 Thread/Matter devices with Apple TVs as OTBRs. Was very solid for a long time until recently. I now back in troubleshooting mode to see what changed to make my Thread network a bit more unstable.
supple juniper
Yeah Matter over WiFi seems mostly fine, I've had some weird issues here and there but most things just work with that. But I just cannot seem to get Thread working at all, I finally got past that issue of "Matter is currently unavailable" by just scanning the Matter QR code in my camera app and my phone just installed some Matter plugin automatically.
After that I was able to go back to the HA app and try to adopt it again, still not having any luck though. I get to the point of "Checking connectivity to Thread network" and it fails (at least with the right network name this time), if I check the logs for the OpenThread Border Router add-on I see a few of these around the same time:
[N] MeshForwarder-: Failed to send IPv6 UDP msg, len:96, chksum:9caa, ecn:no, to:6275420827934508, sec:no, error:NoAck, prio:net, radio:15.4
abstract canopy
Do you have IPv6 enabled as well as mDNS? Are all the devices on the same VLAN?
amber willow
Yeah Matter over WiFi seems mostly fine, I've had some weird issues here and the...
I have about thirty devices on my Thread network with four border routers, and it has been working very well for at least a year. It is stable and reliable.
I don't use Google ecosystem, I use Apple, so maybe that's the difference in terms of pairing issues.
supple juniper
Do you have IPv6 enabled as well as mDNS? Are all the devices on the same VLAN?
my regular network does not have IPv6 enabled, but I thought that shouldn't matter since Thread is a separate network
amber willow
my regular network does not have IPv6 enabled, but I thought that shouldn't matt...
IPv6 is mandatory for thread
supple juniper
Is Thread not its own network? I thought that was the entire point, so you can get the devices off your WiFi network and use the Thread network for them instead with HA essentially acting as a router for them
supple juniper
Matter does not require IPv6, I have many Matter over WiFi devices working fine using IPv4. I'm trying to use thread.
The description there even says you can either use your network with Matter, OR you can use the Thread network with it:
Unlike other common radio-based protocols for IoT, (like Zigbee, Z-Wave, and Bluetooth), the Matter standard specification itself does not contain its own proprietary radio protocol or network transport protocol, but instead, it is a service control protocol that runs on top of the existing network infrastructure at the application level, with all Matter devices communicating using standard IP-based (IPv6) communication over your existing local area network (i.e. LAN networks like Wi-Fi and Ethernet) or Thread (Low-Power Wireless Personal Area Network) depending on the type of device.
Which to me implies its a separate network, and if the networks are separate the settings from one should not effect the other, the network topology diagram even shows the Thread Border Router keeping all the Thread connected devices separate from your network
There is this in the troubleshooting section:
The Matter protocol relies on (local) IPv6 and mDNS (multicast traffic) traveling freely in your network.
But thats just not true, I have local IPv4 Matter devices connected over WiFi without any issues
amber willow
If you don't want IPv6, then abandon Thread.
supple juniper
IPv6 just makes subnet management absolute hell with firewall rules, trying to specify like devices on network 10.1.1.0/23 can access a specific device on a different subnet like 10.0.2.30 just becomes impossible when the IP addresses are all essentially random and aren't given out with any set plan, devices just choose whatever they want
amber willow
Matter over Thread will not work in your setup
It works on a flat network without a firewall.
I understand better now why it doesn't work. You're not giving us the context we need to understand.
supple juniper
HA and all of my IoT devices are on their own network, so from their perspective my network should look flat. When adopting a new device I change the WiFi network my phone is connected to, to that IoT network. There are no restrictions within that network, they just can't contact out to to anything on the rest of my networks
amber willow
So keep Matter over WiFi devices but no Thread
supple juniper
I want to get these devices off of WiFi, which is why I'm trying to use Thread. I can enable IPv6 on that IoT network but it is going to cause some stuff to break since specific integrations need to access a server of mine on a separate network and theres a firewall rule to allow that which relies on the requests coming from HAs specific IPv4 address
I'm just extremely confused why that would matter for Thread at all though since Thread is an entirely separate network with its own router
amber willow
There is no other solution, sorry.
lament schooner
Same problem
abstract canopy
Same problem
click the three dots and make sure it says used for android + ios credentials
trail mesa
a "thread border router" is, from a networking point of view, an ipv6 router between two ipv6 subnets - one subnet for your network, and one subnet for the thread network.
in order for machines on your network to talk to thread devices, they need to have an ipv6 address, and they must know to send ipv6 packets to the thread border router in order for them to reach the thread network. (additionally, for two-way traffic, the thread border router also needs to know how to send packets back to your machines)
in common household networks, this is handled automatically even if the network doesn't already have ipv6, because the thread border router will automatically generate an ipv6 "ula" prefix, and send out router announcements telling the machines on your network to use addresses in that ipv6 prefix (and also informing them that the tbr is a router, and what subnet - the thread network - it routes to)
the problem is that thread is not a "completely separate network". It's actually an extension of your existing network - another subnet attached via an additional router.
placid parcel
I use ZigBee and seeing that, I'm not adding Thread devices if there's no need 😅 I don't see the advantages and I clearly see the problems
lament schooner
click the three dots and make sure it says used for android + ios credentials
Clicking the three dots showed that it already was using android and ios credentials. As far as networking goes, the devices are all on my IoT VLAN where ipv6 is enabled.
abstract canopy
Clicking the three dots showed that it already was using android and ios credent...
Your phone has to be on the same VLAN
lament schooner
It also is on the same network, All devices are
abstract canopy
Can they talk to each other? IoT VLANs usually isolate each device
lament schooner
These are the settings
abstract canopy
These are the settings
turn on mDNS
Thread relies heavily on it, especially when using VLANs
trail mesa
if the phone is on a different vlan from the thread border router it won't be able to route packets to the thread network even if mdns works
you need to get everything talking to thread devices onto the same network
lament schooner
my phone, and border router are on the same VLAN, and all thread devices will be aswell. This makes the mDNS setting irrelevant, still no success.
river hull
Yes, same settings here in a Unifi network, mDNS and igmp snooping disabled.
lament schooner
Yes, same settings here in a Unifi network, mDNS and igmp snooping disabled.
Also same problems?
river hull
Also same problems?
No problems here. 7 Apple Thread Border Routers, 73 Matter over Thread devices.
lament schooner
Ok, so we can rule out that its a network issue for now i guess. Might be a thread border router issue, am in contact with SMLight to investigate this.
abstract canopy
Ok, so we can rule out that its a network issue for now i guess. Might be a thre...
Are you using the Ethernet option, and did you connect the USB cable first? During initial setup the USB needs to be connected and then once it's working you can disconnect. Makes no sense but that's caused a ton of issues with SLZBs.
river hull
Ok, so we can rule out that its a network issue for now i guess. Might be a thre...
In which VLAN is your Home Assistant? Did you enable IPv6 on HA?
lament schooner
Home assistant is in the same VLAN & IPv6 is enabled
lament schooner
Are you using the Ethernet option, and did you connect the USB cable first? Duri...
Tried this too, no success
lament schooner
So it definitely is the SLZB-06m, last night i removed the device and installed the Home Assistant Connect ZBT-1. everything works fine now
fathom yarrow
Have you switched the protocols?
Im encountering the same issue rn....
Thought about getting a 2nd skyConnect to have one working on thread and one on zigbee
lament schooner
Have you switched the protocols?
Im encountering the same issue rn....
Thought a...
the protocols of the skyconnect or slzb?
i switched both to thread
fathom yarrow
Ah ok have to buy 2nd one too then
lament schooner
removed the slzb tho, gave me a lot of trouble with my thread network and everything stopped working. Switched back to ZBT-01 with thread firmware and started working again
