My biggest regret: thread

[chilly geode]

Don't worry - this isn't a pity party. This is a just a lesson learnt for anyone thinking about using matter over thread for the first time.
All this talk is have seen about matter over thread, all the promotion of it being the latest and greatest, easy to use, the way of the future, all the "requirements" you get told about for the devices...no one bothered to say "you need an Apple phone".
Don't do it. Don't waste your money. Run for the hills and stick to Zigbee and Z-Wave. They're not fussy. They don't care about your phone.

[worldly mango]

I'm just getting started on my journey. ChatGPT was pushing me toward Matter over Thread. I question everything it says so I "researched" it for a few more days and decided on Z-Wave where possible.

[chilly geode]

I find zigbee and Z-wave are fantastic when they don't need a native hub or app. So easy to connect then, and far less connection / automation fails.

[wheat gull]

I'm having my worst time trying to get it work too

Almost everything worked flawlessly with Home Asssistant, but once I got Aqara and Tado matter devices, I lost my mind

[chilly geode]

So far the best ones for me were aeotec z-wave, which I find rather ironic given aeotec/smartthings don't want to work with ha

[royal quest]

The first time I see anyone say "wow I love matter and thread so much" is when I will reconsider it. 😄

[full sentinel]

fwiw, you don't need an apple phone; works perfectly fine with an android device (albeit, google play services are required for the time being)

and for advanced users it is technically possible to provision devices directly from the HA system, but it has some tricky requirements.

[chilly geode]

That's not how things are working for me. And all the troubleshooting came down to "you need Apple, or you have to buy another hub that won't give you full functionality, or you have to do this advanced workaround you're not capable of". Do like i said: no Apple phone is the issue.

[brisk fractal]

I recommend you ZigBee if possible

In the next months, Ikea is gonna change their ZigBee devices for Matter over Thread. If they do things the right way, maybe is the turning point of that technology to enter the massive adoption

They try to make "universal" devices to work with Google, Amazon, HA or whatever

And if they do it well, they'll sell a huge amount of devices

I have hopes in that, if the new devices have the quality of their current ZigBee devices

In the meanwhile, use ZigBee if possible 😉

[worldly mango]

I'm trying to limit 2. 4Ghz devices

[brisk fractal]

Due to its low bandwidth usage, I think that not would be a problem

[worldly mango]

We have a lot of 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi networks in range. I read that Zigbee can have performance problems with that.

[brisk fractal]

Well, I live in flat in a crowded area, a huge amount of nearby WiFi, no problems with ZigBee, at least 30 ZigBee devices 🤷‍♂️

[thorn mesa]

I bought full box of ikea zigbee devices when heard about that

[brisk fractal]

Me too 😂

[shrewd vortex]

Well, I am sure Thread 1.4 will boost robustness. Let’s hope Nabu Casa will finally release the update before the end of the year. Given all the issues it is hardly understandable why there are so few releases.

[chilly geode]

I'm with you. It took a little bit learn the routine to ensure they connect easily (except Meross - that's always an ongoing failure) but there's not many rely on LAN, and always a risk because they need local apps / integrations and you never know when they'll stop supporting HA compatibility.

[chilly geode]

I'm unsure whether that will be enough. There's a lot of reliance on third party hardware to commission thread and/or matter to HA. So whether this is a hardware or software solution requirement i just don't know or trust.

[brisk fractal]

Use ZigBee everywhere you can, as said. Totally local and reliable

[shrewd vortex]

I don't invest in a technology anymore that will on the long run be replaced by Matter/Thread. There are issues now, yes, but they will be resolved. Thread 1.4 is a big leap forward.

[brisk fractal]

Well, IMHO there is no interest in the big ones to have an open tech to standardise the open protocols. I urge you to dive into the details of that tech and their implementation. You'll get a big surprise. That said, if a tech like ZigBee works today, and there are plenty of cheap and reliable sensors, like the Ikea ones, it suits me. I dont have the idea of changing my domotic devices in the long or medium run. And as an old man, I have bought a lot of spare ZigBee devices, just in case. I have enough for filling another home 😂

But you can buy what you think is better for you or your needs 🙂

Ah, and Z-Wave is not an open one, remember that 😉

[shrewd vortex]

If you are already heavily invested in Zigbee I do of course understand your standpoint. I just started with my home automation and therefore chose Matter/Thread. IKEA is a key player, so you won’t be surprised that they will update their complete home automation product line to Matter/Thread beginning with 2026. 20 products are already announced.

[brisk fractal]

Yes, I know and I have high hopes that they give a punch in the table (as we say in Spain) and that move made the other big players invest in Matter compatibility. But as I said, I'm becoming and old man, I've seen a lot of trends and what I've learned is not to invest in promises, just facts 😉

And nowadays, ZigBee works and Matter don't 🤷‍♂️

Works as expected, I mean

[shrewd vortex]

The product pipeline of the Big Ones is still promising 😉

[shrewd vortex]

With the latest IKEA Dirigera update you can bridge your Zigbee devices to Matter.

https://www.matteralpha.com/news/ikea-dirigera-now-bridges-water-leak-detectors-and-power-meters-to-matter

[brisk fractal]

Yeah, but you know, a dependency on a non open external hub... no, thanks 😅

There is a Smlight concentrator that can manage ZigBee and Thread

[shrewd vortex]

True. That’s why I stick to HA and its Matter/Thread Addons.

[brisk fractal]

Mine, the model SLZB-06 can do that, but it seems that as of now, it does not work fine in the dual mode

[brisk fractal]

But works perfect with ZigBee 🙂

[shrewd vortex]

ZBT-1 has also issues with dual mode. But I don’t care, because I use only Thread.

[full sentinel]

using separate radios for zigbee and thread is the recommend way to do it, yeah. (if you run into issues with the dual stack firmware, the support response will be "don't use the dual stack firmware".) the thread radio doesn't have to be connected directly to HA - you can use external thread border router hardware, tho if you go that route make sure it supports a recent thread version and is receiving firmware updates.

since using thread radio chips with serial-over-ip isn't really recommended either (extra latency in the serial protocol can cause an unreliable thread network), i'm kinda hoping that the smlight folks will at some point release a PoE device in similar form factor to the SLZB-06 which works as a standalone thread border router.

(it might be possible to do that as a firmware update on some of their devices, tbh)