#Need ideas to find my untracked consumption

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

short crane
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I've recently spent some time adding all trackable devices in my home. Some are properly tracked, and some are using virtual sensors via Powercalc.

I have added every tiny bit I could think of. I went around the house and used a smart plug to measure every permanent-On device that didn't have a permanent measuring device, and added those as fixed consumption, always rounding up.

I tend to have 1-1.7kWh untracked consumption every day. Which is a lot, considering what I haven't added. The total figure is quite reliable as it comes from API from my supplier.

The only devices NOT measured/added are:

  • The boiler + boiler controller. Hard wired, didn't bother. I strongly doubt that uses more than 5W.
  • 6 LED spotlight bulbs in my Studio. I want to take one out and see the wattage to add them, but again they shouldn't use more than the Living room ones (added and using ~0.16kWh in a day).
  • 2 garden LED floodlights (50W when On). Only trigger on movement, so they are off most of the time. Maybe On for 30s about 10 times a day each.
  • 1 Macbook that charges once a day maybe on a random socket, so I have no way of tracking it reliably.
  • 2 phone charges a day.
  • Extractor hood in the kitchen. Can't track it easily as it's wired via lights.

That's it. There's absolutely NOTHING else in the house.

I can't see how these points add up to ~1kWh daily. Especially when observing my second picture, where you can see WHEN the untracked energy happens.

  • There are no major spikes.
  • The studio lights are only used after 6pm roughly. Not a noticeable correlation.
  • The extractor hood only runs when cooking, so it could be somewhat responsible for the "spikes" at 1pm and 8-9pm.
  • Garden floodlights only turn on when dark, so from 6pm to 8am roughly.
  • Boiler controller is perma-On.
  • Macbook and phone chargers should generate spikes, and again it's not perceptible.

I'm quite lost and don't know where else to look. 🙁 Any hint appreciated.

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fluid trellis
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Depending on how your heating and hood works, this may be about a match

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During heating season our gas boiler + circulation pump utilize about 1.3kwh a day. If you got in floor heating the valves are also commonly consume electricity / if it's some air circulation one then those in the ducs also do

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I don't see a dryer in your device list so id assume it's a combo unit?

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Computers and monitors seems like a potentially likely to be off estimate (if it is one) as those vary a lot based on workload and content

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The second diagram would suggest it's multiple things with some base load of 25w + active or timer controlled use (or an error in what is estimated)

paper cargo
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1 kWh per day is really not a lot

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all those things you mention can easily account for that

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also your plugs can have significant measurement errors

agile cairn
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You say boiler and 5W. In my heat that does not link 🙂 Seems very low to me. Or do you mean gas powered? Even then I think 5W is low.

And Powercalc I would only trust after measuring it first.

Things I mis in the list: heating (incl pumps), ventilation and the smart devices themself (as they usually don´t measure themself).

And last, how certain are you of the accuracy of the device metering? And do you also rely on the metering of PV?

So all in all I don´t find 1kWh a day shocking. I mean, I already count ~45 measuring devices. Say 0,5W each already makes up >0.5kWh a day.

short crane
# fluid trellis I don't see a dryer in your device list so id assume it's a combo unit?

We don't have a dryer, no.
We only have a gas boiler, nothing electric. Just the switching controller unit. It's just a relay. That shouldn't consume barely anything.

No electric heating of any kind.
You all mention accuracy of metering. Ok, for sure they're not exact. But we're talking 1 full kWh. That's not rounding error. It's a 15% error from EVERYTHING. I don't think so.

fluid trellis
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That isn't a whole lot and power calc is a good guess at best

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Not knowing your behaviors at home doesn't help

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There clearly is either a lot of noise or behavior/timer controlled action on your unused consumption

short crane
short crane
fluid trellis
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Could help to describe what you did from 5 to 11 that you didn't do at 12

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That seems like something major dropped during lunch

short crane
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everyone sleeps till 7.30. And from there to 11... maybe a toaster run (forgot mentioning it before)? I don't remember, but again I doubt it, and that'd be all.

fluid trellis
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whatever it was it stopped quite exactly leaving you with just about as much consumption as you had from 1-3 at night

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the spike then could be the hook vent that is sensible in what they consume

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and then 17 to 21 it might be the usual comfort things you do there

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its not a lot of peak so maybe small devices like a laptop charging or a monitor?

short crane
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Toaster only in the morning (5min tops)
Extractor hood only lunchtime and dinner time. (30min being generous)

There really isn't anything explaining something spanning several hours and then dropping.

short crane
fluid trellis
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yea

short crane
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not sure if there's some kind of in-line USB-C zigbee power monitor. That'd be ace.

agile cairn
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Then again, all the metering itself already adds up. 1.7kWh is just 70W. All the metering devices already add up and I assume you have non-metering modules or smart bulbs as well. And metering being off by 1-2Watt isn´t that uncommon.

So i really think you are now really chasing the small bits. And then I leave pumps and ventilation out

agile cairn
short crane
agile cairn
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A Zigbee plug is small, just leave it attached...

fluid trellis
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what you could do is if you see one of those spikes, do the breaker tricks

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but that may be a bit annoying

agile cairn
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But I think all the small bit's can easily add up to that 1,7kWh

short crane
fluid trellis
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this is my current remaining untracked for reference

image.png
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having to guess thats around 4kwh split somewhere between lights, unmonitored sockets, the garage, wifi cameras and the hood vent

short crane
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so my options to pursue would be a permanent smart plug to the macbook charger.
Another one for the toaster.
An inline shelly PM for the extractor hood.

agile cairn
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I mean, running a toaster for 5 minutes would already consume the equivalent of 80W for an hour... And you're only chasing a 40-70W average. And running a laptop including charger losses I would put at 20-25W avarage etc etc

paper cargo
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for me personally anything I have no control over is not worth monitoring anyway

agile cairn
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And calibrate the meters and know their power draw! That's not insignificante

fluid trellis
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yea this is probably more money spent in measurement gear than it is in money saved

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tho it can be a fun thing

paper cargo
fluid trellis
paper cargo
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hehe

short crane
fluid trellis
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but yea, you could have a look into one or more shelly em3 / the vue 3 with esphome and add a measurement to every breaker

short crane
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it's just control freak

fluid trellis
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the shelly clamps are kinda large so its not that great to work with in a small space

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and the vue needs to be flashed which is something for tiny steady hands

short crane
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yeah I've had a look at clamps but too expensive too for me

fluid trellis
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i added a second 3em recently because the washer and dryer kept tripping the plugs

short crane
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and I don't think measure the breakers would be too useful. Old wiring, plus hard to find something holding more than 16A

fluid trellis
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well it would tell you exactly where to look for consumption

short crane
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yeah, but tbh I don't even know the sections for each breaker. Old wiring, really. It'd be another hole to dig, trying to define what each trips.

fluid trellis
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eh unfortunate

short crane
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it'd just add a new layer, and only guide me roughly

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no prob. I'll leave it for now, and eventually continue with toaster, extractor hood, and laptop.

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that should add most of it, hopefully

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and then the rest is definitely peanuts

agile cairn
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But just out of curiosity, what is your heating system as I don´t see a pump...

fluid trellis
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1kwh a day keeps the doctor away

short crane
agile cairn
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No pump?

short crane
# agile cairn No pump?

no. Why would there be a pump? I mean, the boiler has a pump inside to move the water. As every other boiler.

agile cairn
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The term boiler might differ a bit around the world 😅 Inside or outside of the unit / definition, I don´t care 😄 But a gas fired water based heating system with a pump will definitely do more then 5W. Or did you not heat te house in that periode / had 0.0 gas use?

short crane
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you're right, but how much the pump can consume? I honestly don't think it uses much

paper cargo
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should be vissible in your electricity chart

short crane
paper cargo
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if the boiler turns on, your electricity consumption should go up slightly

short crane
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just checked. 140W. Prob not using that most of the time, but def could be responsible of a good chunk. I hadn't thought so.

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paper cargo
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0.5 kWh per day is quite typical if you're using it regularly

short crane
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bleh, to measure that I'd need another Shelly PM gen3, and it'd be visible 🙁

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I'll have a think

paper cargo
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I wouldn't bother

short crane
agile cairn