Condition for manual/automation/UI context ids

[heavy plinth]

I had this automation working at some point but I broke it, and now I don't understand why it doesn't work properly.

It's all about the condition to distinguish if a light was toggled manually, or UI, or by an automation.

Atm I want this timer to run either if it was toggled manually or UI.

Here's the relevant bit of the automation trace when triggered by UI. Parent is clearly null, so none should be working. But it isn't.
Full step trace attached.

    context:
      id: 01K77QFWB8BTMV8Z24WHRFFVMH
      parent_id: null
      user_id: fd5af314dfad4f499cfc3a6e7029dbf2

Relevant automation condition. Attached full automation.

{{ trigger.to_state.context.parent_id is none }}

I had issues using variables, so I removed them. But it didn't fix it.

Thanks!

[warm zenith]

I haven't seen your automation, but if I had to do it, I would use id per trigger

Let's say, if the initial trigger is manual, I'll use a id called id_manual. And the same with the UI, Let's say id_ui

That way, you can know what have been the initial trigger 🙂

[errant dome]

That’s not a valid way to comment a jinja template. If you look in your logs you should see an error whenever the automation attempted to run

You need to use:
{# comment here #}

[heavy plinth]

It doesn't produce any errors in the log. And I used like that as it way greyed when doing it, so I assumed it was correct.

I have changed it for your suggestion, and it DOES work now!! It seems it indeed was the issue!

[heavy plinth]

I don't think you can distinguish the trigger. Explain how if you know how, just for learning. The trigger is always the light being switch on. AFAIK there's no way to distinguish.

[warm zenith]

As I said, I didn't look at your automation 🙂 . My example is if I have do it from scratch. Anyway, the light switchs on by one of that ways, so the trigger should be the way it switchs on, not that the light switchs on. Just a suggestion 🙂 . Anyway, if your automation works the way you need, 👍

[heavy plinth]

But what kind of trigger includes the way it switches on? I'd like to understand the way you mean. I've never known of that kind of trigger.

[warm zenith]

I'll explain some examples

[heavy plinth]

I guess it could be a template as trigger

it'd be just moving my condition to the trigger basically

[warm zenith]

I can switch on a smartplug trough a remote or through an automation.

In the remote instructions, I detect a simple click

That's a 'manual' switch on

[heavy plinth]

well, that's a different case as you're using an external source for the switch

[warm zenith]

Does that have sense in your automation? 🙂

[heavy plinth]

not in mine, as there's no external source. It's either manual/automation/UI

[warm zenith]

Ah, ok, what do you mean by manual, then?

A hardware analog switch?

[heavy plinth]

it's a switch on the wall. Manual it's me going and pressing the button

[warm zenith]

Ah, ok, my fault then

A misunderstanding

[heavy plinth]

no prob

just curious if I was missing an alternative way

[warm zenith]

Do you measure the lamp power consumption?

That would be another way to know if the lamp is on, without an active automation

[heavy plinth]

not really. I just know its On consumption, so I have a virtual sensor

[warm zenith]

I'm lost then, sorry 😅

[heavy plinth]

I resolved it with the previous help, so no worries

[warm zenith]

In my HA head, "manual" now means a renote or similar, I need to not assume that 😅

[heavy plinth]

Do you know why it might be that sometimes when this light is triggered by automation, it still doesn't include a parent_id?

It happens randomly, and idk why. It breaks this automation as it thinks it was manual and starts the timer.

Automation trace at 08:02:22. Motion automation ran at 08:02:08. Not sure why the 14s delay though, but it def wasn't manual.

[sudden oriole]

Maybe because it took 14 seconds HA assumed the call in the automation failed. And when it does turn on after 14 seconds it is seen as not by the automation anymore.

[heavy plinth]

Any idea why it takes that long? I haven't noticed in practice tbh. No way the light takes 14s from me entering the kitchen till it goes on. Max it takes is 1-2s in practice.

[sudden oriole]

It's the feedback to HA that matters. So maybe have a look at that the next time you walk in.

Might be that it does turn on directly but if the feedback is delayed to HA it may still see it as failed

for the 08:02:08 trace, can you see if the turn on step returned fail? (Although I'm not sure it will show it...)

[heavy plinth]

that trace has disappeared already, but I don't think the step failed. Apparently it turns on fine. It's a zigbee device. How can I track that feedback?

Since it's not all the time that happens this, it's hard to test

[sudden oriole]

how good is it's connection? Does the device map show it linked to a logical device? Might not be the really clossest device but if the parant is on the other side of the house that's not great

[heavy plinth]

I wouldn't say it's bad. It's a zigbee device, using z2mqtt. 60 lqi, not huge, but not giving problems.

Just tested twice but z2m log shows it going on instantly.

Automation
Perform action 'Light: Turn on' on Kitchen lights and Utility room light
Executed: 20 October 2025 at 09:46:27

Z2MQTT log
[20/10/2025, 09:46:27] z2m:mqtt: MQTT publish: topic 'zigbee2mqtt/Kitchen lights', payload '{"backlight_mode":"inverted","linkquality":156,"power_on_behavior":"off","state":"ON"}'

[sudden oriole]

mm, intermitterend issues are great... 😅

[heavy plinth]

no prob, I'll keep checking whenever it happens and see if I can spot something

[misty dew]

you probably need to use trigger.context.partent_id instead of trigger.to_state.context.parent_id

but I'm not completely sure

[heavy plinth]

I think a couple years ago when someone helped build this they confirmed the to_state was the right one. I'm no expert myself, but I recall discussion about that.

[sudden oriole]

Had to check and I use the to_state version as well:

conditions:
  - condition: template
    alias: Not by automation
    value_template: "{{ trigger.to_state.context.parent_id == None }}"
  - condition: template
    alias: Not by UI
    value_template: "{{ trigger.to_state.context.user_id == None }}"