#Fire detection based on changing temperature and threshold

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

lone cedar
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I am trying to find fire detector to mount on attic (wood, windy, -10 - 40C, smoke from other houses in air during winter).

I want to have detector which have all this:

  • detect temperature threshold
  • detect too fast growing temperature
  • maybe smoke, but I can get too many false positive because of polluted air during winter
  • make noise alarm
  • have integration with HA

It needs to work on WiFi (the best option) or PoE or Zigbee.

I can't find any. Can you recommend me something?

normal helm
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I would rather make something that depends on air quality?

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As in, I'm not sure what you want to achieve

lone cedar
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This is attic. Air from outside is bad quality during the winter so detector will get smoke, dust and pollution.

I need threshold (temperature cross N Celsius) and change of temperature (temperature increased by N Celsius in X second).

In other words if temperature grow fast or it is too hot it means fire. Device should turn on sirens and set state to “fire” in HA.

I want to achieve fire alarm and notification on attic. Attic is harder, than regular room.

lone cedar
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There are dedicated devices for fire detection like this with alarm. Just can’t find anything what I can connect to HA.

I am not interested in to buy and install Fire Control Alarm Panel while I have HA. Not event mentioning cost and how unnecessary complex it would be vs for example WiFi to HA.

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Somehow there are a lot of smoke detectors WiFi, but can’t find more professional devices based on temperature changes.

lone cedar
lone cedar
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ok actually I give up. I can't find anything reasonable to operate below 0C which is not z-wave. -20C - 40C, even -10C - 40C maybe.

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there is no device to make it work on attic :/

plush swan
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You can't just tie into a wire?

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like, get a normal one, and DIY analyze the response from the wire. By wire, I'm referring to all the fire alarms that connect together.

lone cedar
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I don't have and need such wire in my home. I have ethernet cables and PoE.

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I also want to have communication with the device, so for example turn alarm off if is false.

plush swan
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ESP32s can run from -40c to 105c.

lone cedar
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But then I can't for example turn off the alarm or read temperature / smoke density from device to determine if this is false positive alarm of real fire. Am I right?

I wanted to do it more pro, because it is Attics with harsh condition. I have hard time to even find fire alarm operated in such temperatures. ESP32 can run in -40C, but fire alarm will not work 🙂

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I am quite confused about fire alarm in attic. I did circle a few times already in my research.

plush swan
lone cedar
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Device which I am looking doesn't exist. At least I didn't find such one.

lone cedar
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in general I have observation everything is bulided around US regulations 🙂

plush swan
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right, and use regulations don't let you remotely turn off an alarm in households

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as for the othe rsensors, esp devices it's really easy to add temp sensors

lone cedar
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yeah, but I don't live in US and I don't have this rules, such instalations etc.

plush swan
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well, manufacturers typically follow the rules of as many countries as they can pack in a single device

lone cedar
plush swan
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either way, esp device + a dumb smoke detector w/ status wire will get you what you want

lone cedar
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I mean finding temp sensor working in this condition is not a problem, but this is not device dedicated for the job. It doesn't have alarm itself etc.

plush swan
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Are you understanding what I'm proposing?

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I can't really tell

lone cedar
lone cedar
# plush swan Are you understanding what I'm proposing?

haha I don't know too 🙂

I imagine this like that:

  1. buy any smoke detector
  2. smoke detector has output with for example 10V or something like that when fire is detected
  3. connect the wire to anything which will send info to HA about Voltage in wire
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Is it what you mean?

plush swan
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Yes, but the device you connect to it can adapt any cheap DIY sensor as an addition. You can even program it (very easily) to provide any additional alerts that you want.

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like if the temperature is above x degrees, etc

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esp devices can literally do anything

lone cedar
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Are these devices have input to turn off the alarm?

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ah yes you mentioned it is not allowed in US

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so probably not

plush swan
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I doubt that's allowed anywhere

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that defeats the purpose of the alarm

lone cedar
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well where I live I can even not havy any or have whatever I want 🙂

plush swan
lone cedar
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while the alarm will be on the ceil of attic it will really useful to no go with ladder by whole house

plush swan
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that's a DIY smoke detector

lone cedar
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especially while I predict issues with false positive on attic, because of poor condition air during winter

plush swan
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Just watch the video above, you can create your own that does what you want. Or copy what that guy did

lone cedar
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last but not least, do you have experience with attic?

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I don't know if I can find smoke detector operating below 0C

plush swan
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yah but haven't put anything in my peak

lone cedar
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or -10C or lower

plush swan
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that's where the temp comes into play

lone cedar
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if it will just not work or maybe damage, recalibrate or whatever

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the same with dust

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so here we come to conclustion: should I use only temperature or + smoke detection.

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I have no experience with that in such conditions.

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maybe I shouldn't even care about smoke detector because it will stop work correctly after first year

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no idea

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thank you for your input. I am going sleep, because it is late. I need to clear my mind and figure out what I should do based on what is possible 🙂