Gigabit WiFi Router Recommendation

[green plume]

What's the best WiFi Router (longest range 2.4GHz WiFi (1 client 802.11ac), Capable of not bottle-necking 600mbps FTTH, for ~<£40, no bells and whistles required, just fast and cheap. A bonus would be if it is compact (dense) not just lots of fancy plastic shell.

[restive vale]

if its less then 40 quid its going to be bad

[green plume]

As bad as the Archer VR1210v ISP Router? only £50

[restive vale]

if your not going to spend the money to get a decent one then just use whatever the isp gives you

I am a fan of routers and access points being separate devices but there are some which can be good but they are alot more than 40 quid

[green plume]

They don't give me one... i have to pay for it.. but they up charge it a lot so i'm going to buy one. so since i have the option of which one to spend the money on i would like to get the best one

[restive vale]

what isp are you going with that doesnt give you an router? i am supprised to hear about a UK provider having that as an option

[green plume]

onestream, they give the option to get a router... or you can chose to use you're own and save some money.

[restive vale]

oh they are one of the random cityfibre isps

the cheapest thing i would recomend would be something like this - https://uk.store.ui.com/uk/en/category/cloud-gateways-wifi-integrated/products/ux

[green plume]

nope, they use openreach

[restive vale]

realistically something like this - https://uk.store.ui.com/uk/en/category/cloud-gateways-wifi-integrated/products/udr7
would be better but thats a step up in price again

[green plume]

why pay extra to join an ecosystem if you only have one device?

[restive vale]

you can use as much or as little of its ecosystem as you like.

you could build a router yourself and just get an access point to handle wifi

i run opnsence on a proxmox server to be my router and use a u6-pro AP in single device mode for wifi

[green plume]

Remember the goal is better than the ISP router for the same price.

I could spend thousands and make a 25G capable system, but that isn't the goal

[restive vale]

anything you get for that price point is going to be bad

either spend real money or just use whatever the isp has

at least if you use something you get from the isp. if/when you have a problem they cant blame your equipment

[green plume]

you think this Archer VR1210v £48.00 (ISP router) is better than this? Archer AX1500 £35.99

[green plume]

No, they add a huge up charge. And claim it is discounted so the early contract termination fee is massive because you are using their "expensive" hardware

This is also why I'm not getting it directly from them

[restive vale]

personally i wouldnt buy from them with these shananigans

[green plume]

Look at the T&C's I bet all ISP's do it

[restive vale]

but to answer the question: AX1500 is probably marginly better as it doesnt have the voip shit

halariously the vr1210v lists as compatable with windows 98SE

[restive vale]

nope, its just a small reseller thing i guess

[green plume]

Maybe. maybe that is how they offer low prices

[restive vale]

the small resellers are chaos because when theres a problem they blame someone else without even troubleshooting the problem. maybe its them maybe its not. but lets blame someone else and see if that works before we spend time checking to ssee if its our fault

if they are reselling the "same thing" to you at a lower price then you are somehow getting a lesser product

[green plume]

Maybe, but i suspect it is also that they aren't known and trusted like the big brands so they can't over charge like they do

[restive vale]

i get that cost is an issue for people but in my opinion cheaping out on ISP's and stuff ends up costing you more in the long run. with problems/troublehooting times/etc...

a few quid a month vs not getting a random 15 hour downtime

thats my thoughts anyway

a good router will also last a long time unlike the cheaper ones which die after a couple of years

[green plume]

Yeah, I'd rather higher peak speeds (faster package a the same price) with more issues and troubleshooting.

[green plume]

what router would you recomend if they are seperate?

I do have a spar U6-LR I could use temporarily for a while.. it is just a hassle, mounting it and powering it

[restive vale]

u6-lr is a great AP, i installed one of those for my sister recently

i personally would roll my own router using opnsense

[green plume]

costing you more in the long run. with problems/troublehooting times/etc

[green plume]

erm...

[restive vale]

you got an old pc with 2 network ports?

[green plume]

yeah, it is for somwhere but it isn't ready to be installed yet so i could use it for a while

[green plume]

nope

Also. atm the router is powered via the Ethernet to my pc from anther room

since the house is old and there is only 1 single socke on the opposite side of the room to the router

[restive vale]

so you need something that is PoE?

[green plume]

this is what i am using atm

I have just realised i won't get gigabit via this tho

[restive vale]

theres no reason you cant have gigabit over poe

[green plume]

I guess I'm going to have to figure out a different way to power the router anyway, so maybe using the AP won't be such an issue

[restive vale]

unless its not real poe and some dodgy implementation

[green plume]

are there poe gigabit 12v extractors to power the router?

[green plume]

yeah, the one in the photo is

i thnk it just uses 2 wires for + and 2 wires for -

[restive vale]

holy shit that is such a bad idea

[green plume]

depends how you define bad

🤣

[restive vale]

if you plug it directly into a device you most likely fry it

big voltage drops

[green plume]

if you stick a fork in a socket you get electrocuted...

[restive vale]

cables are not rated for the current it would pull at only 12v

[green plume]

I was worried about that... but it works...

[restive vale]

theres a reason poe is ~50v

[green plume]

It is under 1a, the power brick is tiny

[restive vale]

you realise the ONT is going to require power as well right?

[green plume]

Surprisingly it is honestly fine. (so long as you know and it isn't in a public environment)

[green plume]

Yeah, thats why I'm thinking I might have to figure out a different power solution anyway

The other aim is to keep it tidy. It is just a window cill next to the door of the room. So there isn't loads of room for lots of different things.

🤔 i wonder if the ont supports POE

[restive vale]

it wont

if they havent fitted the ont yet then just have them run the cable and fit it somewhere else where you have power?

[green plume]

Erm, there really isn't a good place. 1 room has 1 single socket, 1 room has 2 single sockets. The kitchen has more sockets but I don't think by the sink is a good idea LOL

Also I bet they'll do it from the telephone pole or up the cable (coax) tube, so it'll be where the other things come through the wall atm.

Is it possible to use a ONT router combo?

Or is it only possible to use their ONT

[restive vale]

it wont be supported but there are ways to bypass their ont

but you would need a router with a SFP+ port and a compatible fibre module to put into it

realistically the person installing the ONT will only install it somewhere that has power so they can plug it in

[green plume]

I doubt they'd be happy with being unable to communicate with the ONT.

[green plume]

I ran an extension lead across the room when they installed the current router

before being annoyed by it and finding the Ethernet power solution

Is there a POE powerd router you'd recomend?

instead of building one from a pc with opnsense

or... Connect the ONT to my PC and uses it's WiFi NIC for my phone to connect £0 🤣

somehow run a wan firewall in windows

[restive vale]

dont try and connect an ONT directly to your PC

thats just asking for more problems

[green plume]

all the viruses

[restive vale]

your pc will get hammered constantly

poe powered routers are not really a thing

but the router doesnt technically have to be next to the ONT

[green plume]

yeah, ive just seen this

[restive vale]

if you have an ethernet run you can connect the router to the ont via that and have the router elsewhere

[restive vale]

holy shit, is that single isolated mains cables?

[green plume]

Yeah, I can't tell if that is 1G or 100M tho

[green plume]

No idea... looks like bigger than 2.5mm^2 tho

[restive vale]

jesus christ you need a sparky more than anything else. get them to fix the chaos and put in a new socket where you need it

[restive vale]

surely its not the tails?

[green plume]

that's not my photo btw

[restive vale]

oh thank god, whomever that is has invalid house insurence at best

[green plume]

i think it is IEEE 802.3af

[restive vale]

honestly. the point of hiring a sparky stands. just have your ring expanded and put in a couple of new sockets and save the issue

[green plume]

I don't think they are rings

i bet they are spurs

Concrete floors and plasterd brick walls...

££££

At some point in the future it will get done

[restive vale]

run an extention lead until you can get it done properly.

your looking for a magic solution which doesnt exist

[green plume]

I think poe is the solution... i can't tell if IEEE 802.3af supports 1G?

[restive vale]

the issue you have is if you need to power 2 devices

[green plume]

I mean, I can put the router on the other end

just power the ONT via POE

[green plume]

like this

[restive vale]

if its the dodgy non-real poe you have them no you wont get gigabit

gigabit requires all 8 cores

you might be able to get somethig that breaks out 12v from real poe (assuming thats what the ont uses)

[green plume]

I think all the listings of "Specifications: Compatible: IEEE802.3af/at
Data speed: 10/100/1000Mbps" must be BS

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404901272012 I assume this have DC-DC convertes in them

I just can't understand how they do 1G if they are IEEE802.3af/at (2 pairs)

[restive vale]

gigabit uses 4 pairs but real poe puts power on those pairs in addition to data

[green plume]

ENHANCE...

[green plume]

I think it is "real" POE. It is just passive Type 1 POE rather than active POE

[restive vale]

i am prepared to beleive that thing is using some anchient standard. you can get better ones that will do gigabit and usbc

however that will be dumb usbc at 5v. assuming the ont is 12v your in no better position

[green plume]

🤔 I wonder if they are gigabit. maybe they have magnetics in them... then they use each pair as a + or - and the data is deferentially on the pair.

I might have to go and take one apart

[restive vale]

please tell me your joking

[green plume]

what?

(with the spare pair being used for data too)

[restive vale]

that is how gigabit works... thasts why it requires all 4 pairs

[green plume]

ye

[restive vale]

10/100 requires 2 pairs 1000+ requires 4

[green plume]

I was assuming the power was like this, without magnetics... but since so may sites claim the adapters can do 1000M I'm thinking maybe they aren't

[restive vale]

decent ones can

why wouldnt they be able to?

[green plume]

I assumed they didn't have magnetics in them

[restive vale]

where have you got magnetics from?

[green plume]

Is that not what they are called?

Ethernet Magnetics

Ethernet Transformer

these things

How ethernet does galvanic isolation

[restive vale]

that ccomponent has nothing to do with the poe part

that compnent is part is more to do with getting the data from the line into the interface controller at the right logic level

the long and the short of it is that you are going to need power where the ONT comes in

[green plume]

Are you sure?

I'm pretty sure they are a 1:1 ratio transformer

*ᵍᵉⁿᵉʳᵃᵗᵉᵈ ᵇʸ ᴬᴵ ᵗᵉʳᵐˢ ᵃⁿᵈ ᶜᵒⁿᵈᶦᵗᶦᵒⁿˢ ᵃᵖᵖˡʸ

[restive vale]

this entire thing has nothing to do with home assistant anyway

[green plume]

homes assistance, step 1: home network...

but you're right. back to the main question

[restive vale]

by that logic we should also support bricklaying

[green plume]

indeed 😄

Other home building methods available

TP-Link Archer AX1500 vs RT-AX52 vs MERCUSYS MR30G vs Archer C64

[restive vale]

it really doesnt matter

[green plume]

do you mean there isn't a way to tell which is better?

I know they aren't Ferraris but I still don't want a worse one for the sake of it

[restive vale]

they will pretty much all do an equal job